Ole Begemann

Personally I wish all of these services had a clear policy of what will get you kicked off, and how they'll handle it. I also wish that they would NEVER delete previous work. They should just lock you out of your account if they don't like you, but leave your work up there (and the work of the community). - Robert Scoble

This really sucks actually. Pierre complained about their threat to him and they simply deleted him. I've put thousands and thousands of hours into my Flickrstream. It would be devastating if they did this to me. This really was uncalled for. On digg here: http://tinyurl.com/4hmtvz - Thomas Hawk

Flickr has really went downhill since the Yahoo purchase - John Duff

that's really sad. Flickr... Where have you gone? - ※Fu※

I don't agree with Flickr deleting the account but that email he sent was a bit much. That in itself is abuse, albeit to staff not users, and is against the terms of use. - Andrew Smith

Andrew: I agree with you. If I were at Flickr I would have "fired" Pierre too (locked him out of his account, and told him he's not welcome on Flickr anymore). But I would NOT have deleted his work, or deleted the work of the community that built up around his work. - Robert Scoble

I'm wondering what it takes until people, and I mean masses, stop using services that have theis kind of (miss-)management. I guess things like these only come up if you know someone like Thomas Hawk, etc. I don't want to know how often and what else goes wrong behind the scenes, but still people keep suing these services. Like Robert said, their power is extreme. - Holger Eilhard

At the same time, I have to agree with Andrew that his reply was too much. How about asking in a polite way for the actual reasons behind this first and not just screaming out loud like there's no tomorrow? - Holger Eilhard

Give him a "time-out" - Andrew Smith

The title to your post is a bit misleading. I can see where you are going with Flickr deleting the account for numerous blocks being a bit over the top, but please remember that the people answering these emails are people too, and speaking to them in the way that your friend spoke to them is unacceptable. His account wasn't deleted for cursing, in the text of the email you posted he is being completely abusive. Why would Flickr continue to do business with an obviously abusive user? - Aaron Krug

On the flip side, I have seen Pierre curse like a sailor at Heather and the rest in Flickr Central which is in public and they have had to ask him to tone it down...so there is a history there and it goes back a few years. - cmiper

Robert Scoble won't even approve comments he doesn't like on his fastcompany.tv site, and I seem to remember when you were all up in arms a little bit ago about being treated disrespectfully at SF MOMA. Why should the folks at Flickr suffer the abuse of this man? Because he is your friend? Your friend should've acted like the adult he wanted to be treated like and I am willing to bet things would've gone very differently. - Aaron Krug

@cmiper That's just what I told to a friend via twitter: "I'm wondering what else might be behind the story. There's always two sides [of a story]." - Holger Eilhard

The author of the recent article "Nasty As They Wanna Be" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...) tosses around various nonsense such as whether excluding racist activity is discriminatory against racists, and whether banning harassment is harassing the harasser... but you can have your account deleted for using bad words in private? Either Flickr's policies are made of hot air, or there's more to this story. Also, poor choice of words on Pierre's part. - Tom Harrison

I agree that Flickr should reinstate his account. For the reason given, it should never have even been considered for deletion. However, Pierre could probably stand to take a lesson in tact and civility. - Michael Schuermann

The worst thing is that even after years of controversial account deletions, the Flickr backend still has no undo button. Even if they wanted to reinstate Pierre's account in hindsight, they can't do it if what they say on the help forum is true. They culd give hime his old username back but all the photos, comments, faves: irretrievably gone. - Ole Begemann

If Pierre was such an active user then he knew of this flaw and was tempting fate and got what he deserved. He used words I won't even say out loud in that email. I find it ironic that his whole point was that it should be ok for others to block him and he wasn't doing anything that was abusive and was completely abusive in doing so. - Aaron Krug

@Ole: Yip. This black and white behaviour on Flickr's part isn't good. They should be able to lock someone out, but only being able to delete the work of someone forever can't be the right way to handle these kind of things. - Holger Eilhard

Pierre's response was a bit much. But that's him. He's Pierre. He's well known for who he is by Flickr and their staff. I don't think his response was right. But I think that total account deletion takes it a bit too far. He should have gotten a warning or maybe been locked out of his acct for 24 hours or something. But total account deletion in this case without warning is too far. - Thomas Hawk

You have to keep in mind that this is not about simply starting over or the $25 for a Pro account. Very active Flickr users put thousands and thousands of hours into their accounts. The punishment doesn't fit the crime in this case. They should reinstate his account. - Thomas Hawk

Facebook does the same thing for a lot less than swearing at staff. - Robert Scoble

If there is another side to this story I haven't heard it. I've seen all of the emails involved in today's incident and published the main two relating to the case. If there is more to the story though Flickr is certainly welcome to chime in. - Thomas Hawk

@aaronkrug2 He might have known. But Flickr only got de-brained recently. I had my brush with Heather too but that was before the Yahoo merger. Have nothing bad to say about her. Outcome was fair. Facebook suspends you as punishment for having too many 'friends' but at least they can open your account again after a grace period or your friends standing up to them. - Frank Jonen

Thomas. He was responding to a warning, albeit to something different, however it was a warning nonetheless. Why should the Flickr crew believe he would react any differently if they warned him for being abusive? Would that not have elicited an even worse response? You say he was well known and he knew them well, so he knew the stakes. Maybe next time he will act like an adult when he comes across something he doesn't like. And when you say a bit much you are being misleading again. That email was terrible. - Aaron Krug

What defines a Swear Word? Howard Stern would not last long on Flickr. - Michael Fidler

It sounds like the only mistake the Flickr crew made was to let this guy go on acting like this for so long and make him think that kind of thing was acceptable in the first place, something they obviously just corrected. - Aaron Krug

I am guessing that they took his email as abusive, regardless of who knows that it's "Pierre being Pierre". There is only so much that a business has to take from a customer before they decide that they no longer need or want that customer. As mentioned before, he has gone off using the same language in the past at flickr staff in the public forums, check the "ho ho ho hat" thread drama or the "flickr censorship" threads, he has called Heather out directly and used every profanity at his disposal. - cmiper

Thomas, you say that Flickr only got de-brained recently, however your description of your friend sounds like he has been acting unacceptably for some time. You say that your experience with the same person was fair and acceptable, do you think it would have been the same way had you chosen to use the language your friend did? - Aaron Krug

I don't know thomas, with all due respect, i'm not sure what your friend was expecting. it shows very little respect for the flickr rep and also paints a pretty clear picture of why MAYBE this guy has been blocked. i think many reasonable people would have done the same thing. no one needs suffer abuse. I have received many different notices about complaints about my flickr due to my language and content and i have always responded in a clam manner and flickr has always had my back, had i responded calling them fucking morons i would have expected to be deleted. i'm guessing he didn't get deleted for swearing, seems he got deleted for apparently acting like a spoiled rotten ass with a very high sense of entitlement. at a certain point one needs to take responsibility for the way they communicate with people. being a hot head can have it's rewards but there is also a cost. otherwise it wouldn't be fun anyway. i'm gonna have to side with flickr on this. we get what we give. - merkley???

THIS IS STOOOOPID... come'on flickr what gives?!! Go DIGG this story now! http://tinyurl.com/4hmtvz I am sorry folks but i have NO tolerance for small brained BS like this... these companies are way too draconian sometimes... lighten up already! - Susan Beebe

Thomas, cmiper and merkley are making a lot more sense than you are on this one. No one should be asked to take that kind of abuse at all, and you are asking the Flickr guys to take it and issue a warning? You didn't like being treated rudely at SF MOMA, what about this is different? Your friend should've acted with a lot more maturity than he chose to show - Aaron Krug

Aaron, I wouldn't use that language with Flickr staff but I guess I don't read the email as badly as you do. I've seen plenty worse in Flickr forums. I think Flickr needs to have thicker skin. I'm not defending his email. I'm just saying that deleting thousands of hours of someone's work is too big of a response for Pierre's typical Pierre hot headedness. And it is total crap to threaten someone with deletion simply because too many people block them. I've had plenty of people block me. - Thomas Hawk

And we're not talking about AT&T telling you to go to Sprint because they don't like your language. When Pierre's account was deleted he lost *thousands* of hours of work. That's just too big a penalty for that email. - Thomas Hawk

Thomas, you and I are in complete agreement that it is total crap to have an account deleted just for people blocking you. You and I are in complete agreement there. However where we differ is I answer customer service emails for a living and can tell you that I am a smart, polite, upstanding person who will not be addressed in this manner. Ever. Your only reasoning is that it's 'typical Pierre hotheadedness'. So because he does it all the time it's ok? - Aaron Krug

Aaron, how is this different than the SFMOMA? I was kicked out of the SFMOMA for doing something completely unoffensive and allowed, the Flickr employee was not. Your analogy doesn't make sense on any level. Too very different situations. - Thomas Hawk

It sounds like from the other comments as well that it was not just this email, this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. He has been directly abusive on numerous occasions to the very proprietors of the service he claims to value. If he valued it as much as he said he did he would've thought twice before choosing his course of action. - Aaron Krug

And why was he abusive previously? Because he didn't agree with Flickr policies? Its a big internet, if he didn't like it no one was making him stay. Its not like you can go into McDonald's and speak to them like this because they don't sell Whoppers and then expect them to still serve you. I'm with Flickr all the way on this one. - Aaron Krug

Re: [Robert Scoble: "I wish all of these services had a clear policy of what will get you kicked off, and how they'll handle it."] Flickr's Community Guidelines are actually pretty clear that your account can be deleted without warning. Problem is, most people never read them. ["I also wish that they would NEVER delete previous work. They should just lock you out of your account if they don't like you"] That is a great idea, Robert. It would certainly give the community a more permanent feel. - Ole Begemann

re @thomashawk "punishment should fit the crime" well, i'm not sure how i'd react because it's never really happened, but if someone went off like that to me in my living room, i think throwing them and all their stuff out on the street would be a fair and expected move. gently guiding him onto a small chair in a corner for a time out might be a little condescending to everyone. you know, because we are adults :) btw, being all too familiar with the ins and outs of being a hothead, i have all my comments and entire flickr account rss'd and saved, you know, just in case I get drunk and get myself kicked out of the living room. wouldn't be the first time... :) - merkley???

Whether it was the straw that broke the camels back or not I still think that deleting thousands of hours of someone's work forever is not an appropriate response. Maybe lock him out of the account for a cooling off period, sure. Do that a few times and then kick him out of the site. Maybe it's hard to understand because for most people it's just an account whereas for some of us it represents something with far far more of an emotional investment. - Thomas Hawk

I'm with Aaron that Pierre's email was reason enough for much more than a warning. I really like Robert's approach of locking someone out of their account. Permanently, not just for 24 hours or so. Just don't delete their history. - Ole Begemann

Gotta say I disagree with how Flickr threatened to delete the account because people were blocking him. Without more info, it really doesn't seem like an intelligent reaction. After Pierre's reply, I can't say I blame them for not wanting to deal with him any longer. However, I think locking him out would have been better than deleting his account. - MiniMage

Pierre is a loved character on Flickr despite his hot headedness. He's very ingrained in the community and has been for years. Personally I think many of the characters on Flickr are what makes it interesting. Mr. Chalk, Billy Warhol, there have been plenty of others who have big personalities and take things too far. But Flickr should have more tolerance for their characters before taking such draconian action here. It was a nuclear response and too much for the crime. - Thomas Hawk

And it is super lame that you can get your account deleted for too many people blocking you, which is the issue that started this all off in the first place. - Thomas Hawk

it's hard to have pity for a man who burns down his own house, whether he knew the potential of the match he was striking is another story. the bigger shame is when the house was filled with other people's stuff and that all went up in smoke as well -- but even then, disappointment should be pointed at the drunk guy with the gas can and that should be kept to a minimum since it's all backed up www.archive.org -- i'll stop now. - merkley???

i think blocking just sets off the investigation which in this case was a very short one with considerably strong "craaazay guy" evidence being found in the first interview. -- ok stopping for reals -- - merkley???

Someone needs some people skills. Maybe Pierre should swallow his pride, write them a nice email, explaining why he lost his mind, and maybe get his stuff back. Peter's using THEIR service, he's a guest there. They should and can do whatever they want. If all you guys don't like it, take your wallets with you to another service. That'll show Flickr! - Todd

More conservative bullshit. Everything has to be clean and tidy and fit in nice little boxes. I thought Fluckr ;) was about promoting creativity, not stifling it. Creativity isn't always PG-13, it comes rated R, and sometimes NC-17. And the beauty of blocking is just like changing the channel and not watching. It's not an attack on the artist, just a way of not watching his work because you chose not to. Isn't choice the foundation of a free society? - DAVE ID

I think it's important to point out here that one of the major things that raised Pierre's temper, and has caused concern and discomfort for many others recently, is the feeling of helplessness being singled out by flickr staff brings. We've all seen and constantly see a lot of objectionable things (apparently) slide by, so it seems awfully arbitrary and cold to suddenly be told you are "one of the bad guys" and can be deleted without warning. - TreJack

Add to that the possibility that it's other users who you may have had encounters with causing you to show up on the radar, yet you have no idea who it is you've pissed off, or how to defend yourself, and I can imagine it would be pretty disturbing. One of the points Pierre does make in his e-mail is that users should be able to block someone FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON WHATSOEVER - flickr staff should take no more notice of someone being blocked than FF does when I hide someone's Netflix activity. - TreJack

Whatever happened to all the Data Portability stuff that was all the rage beginning of this year? - Jesse Stay

I still am in complete agreement that you should not be able to have your account deleted for too many people blocking you. The problem here is, Pierre ruined any point he was trying to make by acting like a foul mouthed child. Thomas when you say the punishment should fit the crime I agree, but the crime here is different than you are claiming. Pierre chose not to act like the adult he was claiming to be, and chose to be completely abusive towards the staff. I can think of no situation where the language - Aaron Krug

been wondering that too - Michael W. May via twhirl

You have to hope that the medium term plan is to put a search box back at the top of the page. Click through or a new url is a pain - David Miller

They don't call it a "search" box for nothing. You gotta work for it, d00d! - l0ckergn0me

It's such a pity. It's *great* search. - Chris Baskind

You mean I'm the only one still searching by using "http://www.summize.com?" :D - Cyndy

Yup: that one. I;m entering the old URL, too, when I'm not on Twitter's main page. But I'm über lazy: bring on the search box! - Chris Baskind

"hot donkey shots" LOL! TH-isms ftw! - Mona N.

you forgot the "super great" part Mona. hahaha! good stuff TH. - Carlos Ayala

Definitely agree with your comments - FriendFeed is a much better way to spot some of the great pictures on Flickr that get lost otherwise. - Richard Peat

I agree. I only wish it could be possible to enlarge the photos streamed from Flickr into FriendFeeed. - Nick

Another Top 10 List. - Russellreno

I agree with you Nick. If Flickr images could be imported big like SmugMug's are that would be *kick ass*. I suspect though that this is a Flickr RSS limitation though more than it is a FriendFeed sort of thing. - Thomas Hawk

great list :) - Anna Lynn M.

My reason #11: Friendfeed has a snappy UI while Flickr is too often too slow. - Ole Begemann

I agree. I have discovered a lot of great photographs through Friendfeed, along with some excellent photographers. - Trish R

with Friendfeed , I can custom tailor the photographers that I want to view and also , I see more favourited photos on FF , that I would normally miss on Flickr . - johnpiercy

Next lesson, how to set white balance so that your expensive camera is actually worth it. - Leather Donut

Leather: I'll admit to leaving it on auto. I'll clean a few of these up in Lightroom, since I shoot everything in Raw. This is one thing that separates me from the best. The best, like http://www.thomashawk.com process every image they upload. I've processed none of them, so you get to see all my in-camera mistakes. - Robert Scoble

oh but I liked the auto white balance... noticed but knew it was worth it... - Iris Shreve Garrott

robert see the comments from me & aaron on your blog. i'd love to see you do the same thing in reverse as i describe. i don't think you would have gotten nearly the traffic for the bellagio pic had you promoted it like you did the hugh one, simply because it wasnt as good or interesting. - Deva Hazarika

Deva nails it. The one photo is very good and the other not so. Popularity and promotion certainly helps a lot – after all, there are countless great photos that don't get any attention – but it won't if you promote boring stuff. (edited a typo) - Ole Begemann

Gloves are off!! - Christopher Sacca

I wish I could like this a million times. - Shawn Farner

"need a ride to the airport?" - perfect - Jeff Woelker

"...no wait, she really hasn't handled a crisis like this in the past" :) - Vijayendra Mohanty

I guess SOMEONE's vote got lost... - Mavericks of Troy, NV!

Props to CBS for airing this. I wonder what was cut out around the sixth minute mark of the monologue. - Eddie LeBreton

It's on here, now, I'm loving how he's just ripping him, especially for cancelling his appearance on his show. - Trish R

that was awesomesauce. - Geoff "Maverick" Schultz

Lesson: Don't cancel on Letterman. - Christopher Welle

This is a nice bookend to the comments Chris Rock made about Obama the other day. Well played. - mel maverick mcbride

it keeps looping :( - Anna Lynn M.

Finally...it works now. That was excellent! It's like McCain told him he had to wash his hair and couldn't make the show..then was caught out at the bar...hilarious! - Anna Lynn M.

McCain CHEATED ON DAVID LETTERMEN! - Christopher Welle

ROFL. Go to about minute 3 where he recommends that Palin takes over the campaign during this "crisis" and minute 6 where he stops at CBS for a TV interview on his "emergency" trip to the airport. - scott willeke

I'm not sure my mind can fully wrap around how large that is... - xero

I had no idea there were stars bigger than our entire solar system. I feel ignorant now. - Andrew Badera

Especially since there are planets beyond Saturn. - Akiva Moskovitz

Drats - I posted this before going to work in hopes someone would check the math -- :) - LPH

$41000 per tax payer. At $7000 in average income taxes a year, it'll take 6 years per family on average to pay off that debt. - xero

Google knows: http://www.google.com/search?q... - Ole Begemann

Google says "4.1 trillion divided by 100 million = forty-one thousand" :) Yeah, that's more than what a lot of people make in a year. - Morton Fox

By the way, the national debt is $9.8 trillion and the Federal fiscal gap is estimated to be over $50 trillion. We could never afford to pay those to begin with so what's another $4.1 trillion? - Morton Fox

"In the 1970s Blume experienced very few attempts at banning or censoring her work. According to her, this changed practically overnight after the 1980 presidential election. She stated in an interview that one night a woman phoned her, asking if she had written Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret. When Blume replied affirmatively, the woman called her a "Communist" and hung up. Blume joked that she never did figure out if the harasser equated communism with menstruation or religion, the two major concerns in twelve-year-old Margaret's life. - Anna Haro

geez, I remember reading this as a little girl... - Kim

Bust exercises, anyone? - Stupid Blogger (aka Tina)

lol @SB 333 - Anna Haro

*sigh* didnt work :( - Kim

hahaha! Kim - Anna Haro

I read it too as a kid. I'm glad I did. - Lindsay Donaghe

I remember reading this as a little boy. In house with 4 sisters, 3 of similar age, it was a great help (because the parents certainly weren't explaining things to me). - Michael W. May

Kim: it worked on one of mine. The other opted to be lazy and unaffected. BEWARE! - Stupid Blogger (aka Tina)

Anna, do you have a list of the other 99 most challenged books? - Ole Begemann

I loved that book. "We must, we must, we must increase our bust!" - Trish R

I love all of Judy Blume's books. All of them. - Rochelle

I read a lot as a kid, but for whatever reason, I haven't read this book. I don't think I've read any Judy Blume, actually...! - Cheryl Jones

Cheryl, you're missing out! - Rochelle

I'll just have to add her stuff to my ever-growing "to read" list, even though I missed out in my youth... :) - Cheryl Jones

Omigosh - YES! Read all of it! :-) - Lisa L. Seifert

I <3 Judy Blume. :) - Mona N.

Chris is a tech superstar that I listen to deeply. He is excited by Google's moves and lays out the poor execution on the Mozilla side of the fence. - Robert Scoble

What I missed in the Chrome comic was a mention of browser add-ons like Firefox's. Surfing the web without Adblock Plus is hard to imagine. - Ole Begemann

or without the delicious add-ons... or the evernote add-on... but at least bookmarklets are (likely?) to still work. - Justin Long

The comic was aimed squarely at devs. There was little mention of what would make end users choose Chrome over IE. - Paul Grav

Best read so far, been waiting for a commentary like this... - Kevin Cearns

Gee, Ole... why wouldn't Google want you running AdBlock Plus? Can't imagine. ;) (Now, I agree, add-ons are cool, but as a publisher, I'm not going to weep over that one...) Anyway, I wouldn't count Firefox out. Obviously, what Google addresses is the performance/reliability side and building around apps. Both FF and Chrome are built around standards, both closely married to JavaScript for what they do next. I think this could be a great rivalry, frankly. - Peter Kirn via twhirl

They talk explicitly about plugins on pages 29-32 of the comic so you should be able to have your AdBlock. I seriously doubt Google cares that much about AdBlockers -- which makes up an extremely small percent of the overall market, and which is probably made up of people who don't click ads anyway. - Chris Messina

Chris: I suspect by plugins they mean Flash etc. and not Firefox-style extensions. But I hope I'm wrong. - Ole Begemann

But will it support 1Password on the Mac? - Khürt Williams via twhirl

Will they, wont they. Time will tell. Who do you want to hate today? - Steve Blamey

Interesting article. More choice = better for the users. But I think that you are over-hyping the death of Firefox. As far I can tell. Firefox 3.0 is much better than Firefox 2.0 and Firefox 3.1 will be better than Firefox 3.0. Multi-process, V8 and native Gears support are definitely a step forward but firefox is part of an ecosystem so I would not count them out (A lot of people said that Safari meant the death of firefox and firefox is doing much better today then back them). I look forward to revisiting this post in 18 months and see how the mozilla team/community proved you wrong! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Hmm, well, I didn't claim to foretell the death of Firefox at all. In fact, Firefox will likely continue to gain marketshare and attention (as the web is still expanding). One of my points is that Mozilla missed the opportunity to be the foundation of Chrome -- and will now have to play catch up -- instead of set the agenda for what's next. - Chris Messina

Do you think that was a technical decision or a control decision. From the last couple of interviews I have seen of John Lilly, I think that he has a really clear vision around performance, usability and ecosystem. Performance is coming in 3.1. Usability is driven by some of the concept Labs has been pushing out and ecosystem come from the fact that there are 100s of extensions to firefox and a really vibrant community around firefox. That is a very unique blend. Chrome has made some good progress around performance but there is not much innovation around usability and extensibility. Google has proven with Android acitivities and cross application data sharing that they are capable of innovating...but it will take before those things make it to Chrome so while firefox might have to play catch up in part of the architecture, Chrome will have to play catchup in others. - Edwin Khodabakchian

I am using chrome right now, and I really miss my shareaholic addon as well as my stumbleupon bar. hopefully the developers get crackin for plugins for this browse