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Orli Yakuel › Comments
http://video.google.com is not so innocent as it may look... in fact, it is one of the biggest video indexes for porn. surprising.
I wrote about this a few times in 2007: http://blog.louisgray.com/2007...
- Louis Gray
you mean that it's old? :) and I wrote about web2.0 porn sites in 2007 and did not include Google. oh boy.. (http://blog.go2web20.net/2007... | http://blog.go2web20.net/2007...)
- Orli Yakuel
OK, now I'm seriously looking for a new place.
Liviu Barbat, rowlikeagirl, maxilprof and Kol Tregaskes liked this
Good luck, where are you looking for a place?
- Kol Tregaskes
probably around tel-aviv. will see..
- Orli Yakuel
Yes @elpie hit on why lists are so cool. You can follow them without having the list follow you. New timeline and fresh meat to follow!
Rob Michael (Atmos Trio), Daniel Rowley, Arnold Goodway and 3 other people liked this
@Scobleizer not everything is cool in twitter lists: http://j.mp/U70zG what about lists you don't want to be listed in? I guess I need to live with that..
- Orli Yakuel
I have the same concern. I work hard to keep my numbers down to a manageable size and drop people who don't contribute back but I am overwhelmed with just 1000
- Sherry Reynolds
Orli: have you tried blocking the list owner? That seems to work.
- Robert Scoble
Sherry: lists let you start over 20 times and make smaller subscription groups. It's really great if you feel overwhelmed because you can start a list with just 20 people on it.
- Robert Scoble
What's up; Robert Scoble? You rock the entire friendfeed website pages.
- Bradley Langerman
Miley Cyrus reason for deleting twitter - "I want my private life private" http://www.youtube.com/watch... poor fans.
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So why did she start posting on Twitter in the first place? A real genius!!!
- Eric Gagne
Exactly my thoughts!
- Orli Yakuel
Seesmic, Friendfeed and Twitter next to each other in a test version of Twhirl. Adding tons of Friendfeed experience improvements in there, Marco rocks.
Nicholas James, Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah, Wins Fern and 95 other people liked this
I love this version. And Seesmic in Twhirl is so addictive
- Loic Le Meur
nice improvements Loic!! bring it on!!
- Susan Beebe
can't wait - gimme more ;o)
- Marco Sascha Sven Hoppe
from twhirl
very interesting. The friendfeed integration looks way better than before. Will have to give this a look when it is released.
- Rob Diana
okay, so FF and Twitter are in the latest? but not Seemic correct?
- Lou Paglia
This might get me back into Twhirl.
- Akiva Moskovitz
and it has FF rooms support!
- Loic Le Meur
The question is when ?
- Gilles Meiers
from twhirl
wow, looks great. remind me http://twitku.com/ for a second there...
- Orli Yakuel
looks very cool. exactly what we need. but what about plurk ;)
- Phil Coyne
from twhirl
yes... when?
- Mike Wills
@LouPaglia - correct, Seesmic is not integrated with Twirl desktop app yet
- Susan Beebe
in a few days I think for the new FF integration. Seesmic comes next.
- Loic Le Meur
from twhirl
Super! When!??!
- Florin Grozea
from twhirl
looks like it might replace alert thingy as my RIA of choice
- Steve Lynch
from Alert Thingy
Great ! Thanks
- Gilles Meiers
from twhirl
integrate into one window, is all i ask, make it indisputably the best
- Ruben Llibre
none of them working in linux TOO BAD!
- Yassin Alvandi
Is twitter's api actually back up at 50 req/hr?
- Shawn Farner
The old Twhirl works for me in linux for me, it just won't remember my password.
- Daniel E. Renfer
from twhirl
Yes Marco does. Twhirl is becoming my info hub. And if Twitter dies, who cares I'm sure Pownce, Jaiku or whatever could be swapped in
- Tris Hussey
from twhirl
so is seesmic cool now?
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
How do we score the test ver? :)
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
You tease. Where do I download it?
- Rafe Needleman
Cannot wait, big Guy!
- ledretch
I want... When?
- highcenter
from twhirl
Can't wait!!
- Danish Khan
from twhirl
actually it will be pushed in an hour or two
- Loic Le Meur
from twhirl
Can't wait!
- Tris Hussey
from twhirl
Nice teasing. Do you have any release date or will you take the "it's done when it's done" side?
- Romain Péchard
from twhirl
I would love some "best practices" guide for how to get the most out of all that information that will be flooding in.
- Brendan Cosgrove
from twhirl
How do I add my Seesmic account into Twhirl 082? It's not showing up in the "accounts" list.
- Rafe Needleman
from twhirl
We should have a Twhirl + Seesmic preview in the very next days
- Loic Le Meur
from twhirl
wait, what exactly is the difference between Twhirl and Seesmic? I thought Seesmic was replacing Twhirl...
- Piero Ardizone
This looks awesome!
- Svartling
I think this what im looking for!
- Michael Scott
Wow nice work, I really like the improvements made :)
- Jeunelle Foster
awesome!
- barbarars
wow - one of the furthest back boomerang ff threads i've seen
- mike "glemak" dunn
nice!
- .LAG liked that
Wow, this is pretty old. I got excited for a second, thought Loic had seen the light and was starting to care about Twhirl again. NOPE.
- Shawn Farner
The video of kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit (after over three years): http://www.youtube.com/watch... #giladshalit
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The video has been taken down due to a copyright issue. Nuts!
- Paul Jacobson
Here it is again: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Orli Yakuel
Thanks Orli. It is at least a relief that he seems to be healthy and very much alive.
- Paul Jacobson
he is probably a lot less healthier than he looks. but thank god he's alive.
- Orli Yakuel
Look out! Google Wave has turbulence and may explode! (No fail whale, but potential explosions)
volkan.vardareli, vijay, Tanath and 42 other people liked this
I see Penny likes this. It was from a wave with Thomas.
- Louis Gray
How is she keeping up?
- Thomas Power
I actually just started to have fun with it
- Orli Yakuel
Do waves explode?
- Luke, Reach Students
This is the best warning message ever
- Michael McGimpsey
"Wanna"? What is the world coming to. You'd think a company as big as Google could employ people who know how to write.
- Gilbert Harding
Gilbert, I'm sure the Googlers in Oz know how to write proper. I reckon they're just trying to get down with their target audience - i.e. the kool kidz! (Seriously though, do error messages really need to be formal? I like the more relaxed approach...)
- Tony Ruscoe
Thanks for sharing with those of us who waited before jumping in.
- Brenda Young
I wonder how long it will take before people can "like" a wave... If they added it to GReader, it seems like only a matter of time...
- Nathan Chase
[Demo] Future Designer laptop - ROLLTOP http://www.youtube.com/watch... THE MOST breathtaking gadget I've EVER seen!!
![[Demo] Future Designer laptop - ROLLTOP http://j.mp/VXUcn THE MOST breathtaking gadget I've EVER seen!!](http://img.youtube.com/vi/7H0K1k54t6A/2.jpg "[Demo] Future Designer laptop - ROLLTOP http://j.mp/VXUcn THE MOST breathtaking gadget I've EVER seen!!") |
Willem (@wim66) ☠ and Andrew Terry liked this
don't miss this one!
- Orli Yakuel
it's a crime to stay in with such a great weather outside!
Andrew Terry liked this
The weather is nice here in the UK, and yet people are already wrapping themselves up in cardigans and and wooly jumpers! Me? I'm resisting winter until the clocks go back *at the very least*!! Went out in a t-shirt, shorts and Birkenstocks this morning!
- Andrew Terry
I'm so like you! I LOVE THE SUMMER!
- Orli Yakuel
When new mentions arrived at Brizzly, your username font is turning to bold (in the sidebar). Super useful.
Amir liked this
Brizzly?
- Raanan Avidor
Ryan cries
Memo.m4a 272 KB
polou/indigo_bow, onur özen, Grant Bierman and 49 other people liked this
7 lbs 13 oz. Born at 11:32 pm. 20.5 inches long.
- Robert Scoble
from email
RSS is alive and well!
- Mark Krynsky
So precious!
- Jesse Stay
awwwwwwwww!
- drew olanoff
Wow Robert that's intense. Congrats.
- JP Holecka - Jaypiddy
such a young cry! - gives me goosebumps. Best wishes to you all.
- Hilary Talbot
Whoa. That is awesome. I kinda like it without the video. It let my form my own images.
- Lise
Now put the smart phone down and start doing the dad thing. ;)
- JP Holecka - Jaypiddy
Amazing. Life!
- Fred
Grats bud...
- Denverken
What a great sound!
- Mike Doeff
You're a freaky guy Mr Scoble :)
- Rhys Amos
He's about 15 minutes old and is already making his voice heard on the internet! I LOVE SOCIAL MEDIA!!! :D
- Danny Minick
Now this is real time ! Great stuff Robert ..... Congrats to you and Maryam (who no doubt did most of the work :)
- Charlie Anzman
aww, so sweet. precious baby...i'm getting all teary-eyed and emotional. if you post a video too i'm going to cry for sure.
- Jodi Church
time to get snipped dude. hehe. congrats.
- geoff hines
Congratulation father!
- Mary
Wow, that is the sweetest sound. I'm about to cry. Such a beautiful life ahead for Ryan :)
- Nakeva Corothers
'real' web , forget time, very real..
- James Watters
Congrats Scoble.
- Jimminy
awesome - congrats!
- kathysd
Good crying! Ours didn't cry much at all because they were so small.
- Louis Gray
the sound of new life entering the world - thanks for sharing now go be with him and leave the interwebs for a bit... congrats!
- Shannon Clark
Congrats!!
- Luca Perugini
from iPhone
Congratulations
- Paul Blasman
Brilliant! As stated RSS is alive and well!
- Sandra Large
Congratulations Robert and Maryam.
- Mark H
Congrats to your family!
- Odi Chi
Congratulations from Europe to you and your wife - a new human being :)
- Harscoat
Congratulations!
- Gokhan Gultoprak
MAZAL TOV!!!❀
- Orli Yakuel
Best to you, Maryam & family, Robert!
- Myrna
Brilliant!
- 1x29
His first podcast! Just like Dad...
- Danny Whitt
from iPhone
Keep an Eye on DailyBooth - http://blog.go2web20.net/2009...
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I couldn't agree more. It's not a site I'd use but I see more and more people around me starting to use it. Not just people from the US but also from Asia (Singapore, Indonesia).
- Eiso Kant
yeah, it's totally fits this web era.
- Orli Yakuel
FriendFeeders: do you get any value out of me importing my Twitter Favorites in here? Should I keep doing that?
Harold Cabezas, Captain Jack, Vlad Hrouda and 28 other people liked this
I ask because they seem to be too much and rarely get engagement.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I do :-)
- Alexander van Elsas
your favourites arent necessarily my faves.. all the time..
- Tyson
One thing is that here they are searchable.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Nope. I would prefer not to see them.
- Louis Gray
yeeeezzz...please keep it Robert;p
- zʍıɔ
at least i do see them here.. i probably wouldn't otherwise apart from that aggregator site you link out time from time.. then i just see if you've fave'd one of mine.. which i dont think you have yet.. :P
- Tyson
Not me, I would prefer that you used FF more ;). (But I do look at them occasionally)
- Travis Koger
Louis: why not? They often are the same as stuff you've liked in Google Reader except mine are usually faster.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
@Robert, I often use them as a hb to go somewhere. I may not engage upon return, but they do provide me value
- Alexander van Elsas
I do prefer a like on FF.. dont know if theres that much exciting stuff coming out of twitter thats not already here..
- Tyson
Nope.
- Steve Chou
Alex: but couldn't you just visit them on my Twitter account at http://twitter.com/scoblei... ?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Steve: why not?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I can visit your fav tweets if I want,but right now there is not a single way to add fav tweet to rss reader since there is no rss feed there.But tweets do have.
- Steve Chou
Louis, you are one of the people I favorite the most. Entire list is here: http://favstar.fm/scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Robert, I understand the analogy and I know what you are trying to do. But to me, a Google Reader share is a share of the content directly, while a tweet is essentially a share of a share.
- Louis Gray
Robert: prefer pure FriendFeed
- Geer
Robert, I understand that - and I have nothing against you favoriting my stuff, like I don't ask folks to stop RTing my stuff, even though I don't RT.
- Louis Gray
Louis: I disagree and often the Tweet says more than the blog's headline.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
But so far I am becoming more convinced this form doesn't fit into FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Essentially, I see the practice of favoriting tweets as your trying to substitute the hard work you did with creating a searchable likes and comments database in FriendFeed. With the acquisition making people wary, yourself included, you're looking to recreate the experience.
- Louis Gray
Man, one or two of your twitter favorites are normal.. not annoyed and not hard to track :)
- FFTornado
I do not believe that Facebook's acquisition of Friendfeed makes Twitter more alluring. I recognize your trimming of your list has made it more valuable for you, but the many issues that were there before remain.
- Louis Gray
Louis: yeah, I am playing around. Most of what I was liking here in FriendFeed was Tweets anyway.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Which is why I say I get you and understand you 100%, even if I am not a fan of this experiment.
- Louis Gray
The thing is a lot more people I want to track are on Twitter and now that I have hand followed over there I see I would be missing a lot if I kept doing only FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Robert: You see,your tweet favs didn't get much likes below as your other stuff,plus its almost full of your profile page.
- Steve Chou
I figured this would be a good way to bring new good stuff into FriendFeed but it doesn't look like many are getting anything out of it.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
i think its also because they come in in herds. Unfortunately they're not real time, so they come in in batches of 10 at a time. Also, I think most Twitterers would prefer it if you retweeted, they get more recognition that way. I'm happy with whatever though really.
- Zee.
Perhaps you need a feed of your favs that at least 10 other people have faved too. ;-)
- Tim
Zee: I can't do that many RT's though. It sucks that Twitter is so bad for sharing.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Robert, I actually think you should gather it someplace else, like a webpage in your blog or something (cause Twitter has problem from time to time and it's hard to see all of your saved tweets). Your favorite list on twitter is basically one of my news source. (the other one is my own twitterstream)
- Orli Yakuel
@Robert yeah, i get what you're saying for sure
- Zee.
@robert Dont use Twitter as much for aggregation. I use ff more;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Robert, please keep doing everything on FF that you are - I get tremendous value from it and try my best to pass it along. I watch what you do here very closely.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
and did I say btw - thanks, I appreciate it!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
I appreciate your stuff !!!!!!!!
- martin
Robert Scoble = "big mouth strikes again" ..............and i LOVE your 'mouth'
- martin
I'm with you Marshall, would just prefer that FF is the hub rather than twitter!
- Travis Koger
Robert the information you send to FF has been filtered many times and hence only really useful information ends up here. By importing your TW favs they are highly credible from you but not like the actual Tweets that you have read and personally liked etc for a new person on the block like me your info is great
- Ian Wright
from BuddyFeed
*hide* isn’t working yet for single rss-sources? ouch.
- kosmar
I appreciate it. Actually, I learned a few interesting things via your Twitter favs that I would have missed otherwise.
- Sebastian
yes, please
- fansnap
Yes, please
- Roberto Bonini
Yes!
- Alex Kapranoff
I hide them unless they get likes/comments. Since setting it up that way, the S:N ratio has increased to where they're useful.
- Bruce Lewis
yes, and appreciated!
- CBlohm
there is always hide option, and occasionally they seem to be quite useful. so keep doing it please. and thanks for asking, i wish moreelses did that...
- Özgür D. Cyric
Yes, please.
- Donna
Please do keeping importing them here. Much easier to browse and search.
- Antonella Stellacci
Please keep at it! It save me at least a couple hours out of my own personal time to chase for the good stuff and I can't invest that time every day.
- Marco ILLESCAS
Your FF stream is good, keep the Twitter favs Robert.
- Jeremy Campbell
from twhirl
I get value out of them.
- Jimminy
I like it but please "like" it if on FF and only favorite it if they're only on Twitter. I prefer not to have double content.
- Jesse Stay
from iPhone
I always RT my twitter favorites by bringing in my favorites' RSS feed into Yahoo Pipes and append "RT @" to the front and then post it in Friendfeed for Retweeting. You can clone my pipe if you want. http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes...
- Bryan Lee
What about making a separate group in FF for your twitter favorites.
- Bryan Lee
I get a lot of value out of it!
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Yes, continue - appreciated and valuable.
- Dave
nice reading...and Scoble you again on wordpress.com? your name is in their list http://en.wordpress.com/feature...
- testbeta
please keep doing - I don't always respond but I often use them - you are a major set of eyes on the latest things web
- Arthur Coleman
today your favourites rock!
- Tyson
iLoveit
- Fer Isella
There's a lot of @xyz stuff in your Twitter import which is often not too interesting. If addressing one person, maybe contact them directly?
- Tim Tyler
Yes I do. I'm getting tired of twitters limits and issues.
- Captain Jack
yes - it's another RSS backup, that also is searchable. i find so much more info in Friendfeed than searching Twitter :-)
- Courtney Engle
Interesting answers-I was pondering doing the same thing today. Keep 'em.
- Harold Cabezas
21 Typography and Font Web Apps You Can’t Live Without : Speckyboy Design Magazine - http://speckyboy.com/2009...
how awesome, they've added our Follow Twitter Badge :-)
- Orli Yakuel
:-)
- Micha Kaufman
I started posting to FriendFeed on August 31st, 2009 (0 days ago) - http://whendidyoujoinfriendfeed.com
Davide Patti liked this
mm.. that's so not true :-)
- Orli Yakuel
yes, you have been posting here for a couple of days ;-)
- Apostolos Tsompanopoulos
Loving the conversation going on at Techcrunch about my music post. Exploring services through the comments: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Daniel Rowley, Paul Greer, Turner Burns and 4 other people liked this
Great post, glad to see you included TheSixtyOne!
- Majento
TheSixtyOne is truly amazing.
- Orli Yakuel
The best Twitter conference is looking like http://parnassusgroup.com/twitter... @biz @veronica @guykawasaki and many celebrities and developers are involved.
Steve Broback, Nick Halstead, Rich Weaver and 4 other people liked this
good price as well.
- Orli Yakuel
Where are the editors, journalists, researchers and musicians who made the #140conf extraordinary? I have no doubt that this will be an interesting event but I'm struck by the difference.
- Alex Howard
Alex: they are at 140conf. I'll be at both. They both are awesome for different reasons. If I only had one to attend, though, http://www.thetwitterconference.com was more useful for both developers and trust agents.
- Robert Scoble
Whoops! As usual, you handle a misguided quibble with grace, Robert. My mistake. Wish I could be at either; I look forward to participating virtually.
- Alex Howard
"celebrities and developers".... Ah huh...?
- Darren Pollard
Darren and some celebrity developers too. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Thanks Robert! Orli, appreciate for the nod regarding our bent toward inclusivity. Our event is intended to be less theoretical. An academic "investigation" of the possibilities or social consequences 'aint us. More about pragmatic realities. People have apps to ship dammit. :)
- Steve Broback
"We no longer search for the news, the news finds us" - From this GREAT Social Media Revolution video: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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@orli, this is a great video, i loved this line too!!!
- nivcalderon
it sure is.
- Orli Yakuel
jdlasica: @Scobleizer re hootsuite: YouTube forced everyone (at first) to use their stupid watermark on your videos. Sold 2 years later for $1.6B. - http://twitter.com/jdlasic...
Roberto Bonini liked this
The best traffic we ever had at SocialToo was when we offered auto dms and a default auto-dm asking them to check out SocialToo. I still ask myself if we made the right decision killing those.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: a lot of people make money with spam and porn, too. I guess you gotta decide whether you can live with yourself after taking money doing that kind of stuff.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, yeah - that's what I had to decide, and why we removed it. Also, in our case it was a choice - we gave anyone who wanted the option to change their message. For some reason people neglected to change that though. The whole Auto-DM thing got out of hand anyway so we decided to take a different business direction and killed it. Our stance is now pro-active anti-spam.
- Jesse Stay
Youtube were a unique service at that time (still is). Hootsuite is not. I can easily choose a service that does the same, and don't force me to take part of the twitterspam parade. They could have come with something less annoying.
- Orli Yakuel
twitter is not working for me today 99% of the time.
Madhav Tripathi liked this
So throw it away. I've given up on the site once more. So sick of how crappy it is.
- Richard A.
sadness. tried a remote proxy just incase? if it's an account based problem is it worth starting a new account & use the 1% when your old one works to ask people to follow the new one? :-(
- immaterial
wow, what a suggestion immaterial... are you not familiar with Twitter at all? it was just for few hours...
- Orli Yakuel
I use it a bit but on nowhere near the same scale. It tends to be quite reliable for me. Glad it got sorted out so quickly.
- immaterial
Thanks.
- Orli Yakuel
Twitter has rapidly become popular only recently in Japan, but after all the frequent failure is the bottleneck.
- saku7up
I am actually VERY excited about FriendFeed going to Facebook. This is a HUGE win for both companies! More later.
Nicholas James, Eric Standlee, Rene Silva and 73 other people liked this
+1 (without the more later ;)
- Orli Yakuel
Big news.
- phil baumann
Oh, I can't wait to hear how this shakes out...
- Travis Tasset
With any luck FB will rework the UI to make it more friendly and it can gain some market
- James
If Facebook uses the FriendFeed interface, then I would agree it is a great idea.
- Rob Diana
Absolutely. Great deal all around. Congrats to everyone involved.
- Tom Guarriello
I'm hoping for better, faster feature development.
- Jeff Harbert
yes, definitely win-win
- Wolfgang Heinrich
huge win for both companies ?? is it a win for the FF community ?? who comes first ?? the business or the users ?? I bet you within 6 months, I wont be using FF as much as I use it now !!
- Peter Dawson
i agree - facebook has been getting on my good list this past year and I just love friendfeed.
- Chris Jackson
Just as I re-dedicate myself to using FF, FB acquires them. If FB can integrate FF's deep feature set, it would be a win-win-win.
- Jim Duncan
True or false: Facebook needs FriendFeed more than FriendFeed needs Facebook.
- Joel Zehring
I'm excited too, but at the same time I'm afraid facebook may make some wrong moves with their acquisition. We've seen this happen before.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
this is not a good day for Twitter....
- Giorgio
I fully expect to just see FriendFeed as a separate entity to go away with its technology being absorbed by Facebook.
- Mike Flynn
Very True.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
Joel: Absolutely true.
- Adam Reyher
I caught Robert's reaction to the news on my iPhone: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Robert J Taylor
from iPhone
If this makes it so I have one LESS place to go to follow my social media, then it will be great. I already have too many different places with different people and different conversations for differ purposes that overlap and make it unnecessarily complicated.
- David Rondeau
FF > FB? not great, actually. diversity is better than monopoly. and i'm concerned about aggregation features getting deprecated (in the name of progress and chrossing the chasm and all that jazz.. of course ;)
- jacek
This is a IP, technology and talent grab.. I don't see the 2 sites being consolidated
- Dave Senior
It may be a big win for both companies but is likely a big lose for FF users.
- Brian Sullivan
FriendFeed functionality on Facebook would be nice. The reverse, not so much. They're trying to address two entirely separate purposes and as such, need to remain completely separate.
- Adam Reyher
I hope Facebook turns into FriendFeed. That would be great!
- Wo
I'd really love to see the real-time threaded conversation feature of friendfeed be adopted by facebook.
- Steven (optionshiftk)
Looking forward to your analysis Robert
- Ken Seto
I can see development of FF slowing down as the team brings the tech over to Facebook
- Dave Senior
Indeed, Brian. FF devotees should be pissed over this. I can't believe Facebook will do anything but carve out a few choice pieces of FF meat - likely making them even more Twitterish - and dump the rest. FF will be gone within six months.
- Shéa Bennett
This is a huge win for both companies, and a huge fail for every net surfer.
- TiTi
yeah it may not be that bad. maybe i'm exaggerating.
- Edgar Rodríguez
Well, I think the FF team can certainly help the Facebook UI. But, all I take away from this is FF going away.
- Yolanda
One thing to consider is this: If we have "trusted" the FriendFeed people not to screw things up, hopefully we can trust them to make sure they're still in control in the terms of the acquisition.
- Adam Reyher
Yes, Robert. Like TiTi said, huge win for both companies, huge fail for the people who like FriendFeed. "Welcome to FaceFeed! Would you like to take a quiz?"
- Zach Flauaus
I think this is definitely a huge win for both but maybe not for the users. I think it could be good or bad for users but I hope that Facebook will allow FriendFeed to continue and push the envelope with emerging technologies. I imagine this is Facebook and FriendFeed teaming up against Twitter.
- Brandon Titus
.-( Good for Friendfeed, but horrible for people that like friendfeed and hate facebook &their UI or where FB is blocked
- Del_
may be
- Ahmet Soyata
It's good timing. FF uniques fell almost 10% in July.
- Shéa Bennett
this is bad news for twitter, me thinks.
- Brian Ries
Absolutely, Robert. Its a very good tech acquisition for Facebook, they get a great team with a well developed technology stack. It lets the FriendFeed founders get a good, early exit.
- DGentry
I hope so. I know my initial reaction was not as negative as most of the others I'm seeing in my stream. Maybe I'm just being naive.
- Herb Hernandez
Hopefully this means the power of friendfeed will be utilized. Awesome news
- Marcus
This is why I follow Mr. Scoble, yes that is Mr. Scoble :) always has his fingers in the breaking news.
- dennis podgorski
I'm fired up about this union between FriendFeed and Facebook. With the exception of my social media group, I've used FriendFeed primarily as an aggregator--despite it's being my favorite GUI and functionality. I think this is going to bring the substance to FriendFeed that it's been missing. Very exciting!
- Jim W
I have a hard time drawing my line of Public v Personal. I use Twitter & FriendFeed for public use and I use Facebook for private use. I have not even once made a status update on Facebook. I am not sure I want FriendFeed on Facebook. I am intrigued about the possibilities of integration but I am not sure I will adopt.
- thestaticfrost
The power of FF will be used -- but it won't be pretty and won't be for good.
- Brian Sullivan
I have to agree with Robert on this. I think this is likely to be a great deal moving forward. I'm excited about it, and happy for the FriendFeed crew. They've done an AWESOME job.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I am not as excited about this. I don^t like Facebook as much
- nchenga
i think this is going to add more value to Facebook
- Lee Kent
concur robert
- mike "glemak" dunn
It certainly makes sense, and I agree that it adds value to FF. I wonder how many of the 250 million users of FF will be using it in its current form.
- courtney benson
Just surprised this didn't happen earlier. Facebook has been mimicking FriendFeed's functionality for a while now. Nice that FF is finally getting paid for their R&D efforts.
- Aaron Strout
I think this will make me drop friendfeed or facebook
- Nicolai Rygh
Please explain - this may be win for Friendfeed - but as far as us the users/fans... we're the big losers in this right? I really really can't stand Facebook :-( Help us have hope...
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
ruination.
- Joe Silence is not dead
I will wait and see approach @ all
- polou/indigo_bow
here is the explanation, FF have t sell the soonerr, better then laterr, they choose the right momment, wave is there and it is a big promise
- abdellah
when Google start wave, they surely shown their non desire to acquir FF it was implicite
- abdellah
All Your Feeds Are Belong To Us
- Ian Tindale
I'm hoping for the best.
- Jim Connolly
The idea here is growing on me. I see the business case...I'm still not sure as to the impact on Twitter and different users who prefer one tool over another and/or use the two differently.
- Derek Shanahan
I'm trying to defer my pessimism...but I feel an "I Want Sandy"-type fail in the wings. As for FF needing to sell, that wasn't the case; the founders had the money to keep it going for as long as they wanted, basically. We'll see, I suppose. We'll see.
- Ken Kennedy
This is really interesting. This will bring a bigger pool of social media services to people. As it is now, regular folks don't venture further than Facebook, with this acquisition, many will realize that there is a plethora of great other services and social media websites that they can engage in.
- Rami Taibah
Ya know when you get a bad feeling about something - I have one about this deal. Can't put my finger on it, but it don't feel right.
- Jim Connolly
FriendFeed now to get BIGGER than Twitter?
- Jim Connolly
"when Google start wave, they surely shown their non desire to acquir FF it was implicite" - I think that probably covers it.
- John Craft
Isn't this the kind of daring move that Yahoo should have made?
- Andrew Warner
Seems like a HUGE win for Facebook. Not so sure for the future of FF, though.
- Chris Wood
This is really interesting. This will bring a bigger pool of social media services to people. As it is now, regular folks don't venture further than Facebook, with this acquisition, many will realize that there is a plethora of great other services and social media websites that they can engage in. On the side of the coin, I am kind of worried about FB privacy issues and data portability
- Rami Taibah
is there a dislike button anywhere? I did exactly the opposite FB never appealed, FF rocked...
- Valeria Maltoni
FriendFeed will not be the same place, in terms of the community, but this keeps friendfeed around for a while. Awesome! Where's Arrington? Did he reopen his account?
- Benjamin Taylor
Whatever FB and FF does, don't tell Oprah... That's a sign it's over..
- Timothy Latz
FF isn't blocked at work, FB is. FF usefulness would nose-dive for me if blocked.
- Brett Veenstra
Brett: this is likely to pave the way for more client applications for Facebook, which will not be blocked at work.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
needs to find a FINE short URL service. I like bi.tly & cligs, but it's good to have alternatives.
I'll give it a try, thanks!
- Orli Yakuel
Why FriendFeed's designer, Kevin Fox, is to blame for FriendFeed being too difficult to use: he f**ks with affordances. (UPDATE: he answers me toward the end of the comments with a GREAT set of answers).
29travels, Lucas, FFTornado and 138 other people liked this
Affordances. They are important. What does that mean? A door knob "affords" being turned. It almost demands it. Yet FriendFeed is screwing with things like links. Here, click on "hide." That should just hide one item, right? That's the affordance. Yet you'll soon find there's a whole world stuck under that little link. You can hide Tweets. You can hide me. You can hide all sorts of stuff.
- Robert Scoble
Is it difficult to use?
- Manuel Mas
Hmm.. is it difficult to use?!
- Orli Yakuel
i heard larry wall once say about perl "make simple things simple, and hard things possible"... the simple things are definitely *not* simple in ff, increasing the learning curve right at the start... i rekon if they fix that... they have it made! :)
- simran
It's a peace of cake
- Mark
Ooooo. One does not often see Robert swear. He's really worked up about it. Care to respond Kevin??
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
#2 Look at the time stamp. Did you know that's also a link? Where's the affordance? Not there. Yet did you know you can click that and that is your permalink? Many people have trouble figuring this out. But here's an ultra affordance killer. Did you know you can click it twice and get a popout menu? Not many people do. Kevin has overloaded links with too many features and he has broken the affordances of what links usually do.
- Robert Scoble
Orli: actually, yes, it's difficult to use.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble: You may be right now that I read what you had to say. I don't think there is a proper FAQ/guide for all the little details hidden in FF.
- Manuel Mas
And noses were designed to support eye glasses.
- Todd Hoff
well I just managed to wipe out my entire friend feed account when I was trying to add a new one for a different twitter account
- NW Angel
I agree - too many possible results from a given action. Manuel, no one reads FAQs and if you need to, the app is DOA
- Sameer
Well, I don't see it as difficult to use. Its more that there are many things in here hidden that would aid users if there were more upfront.
- Manuel Mas
Most of us get basic functionality out of the site with how things are at the moment.
- Manuel Mas
Look at this complaint too about FriendFeed being difficult to figure out: http://twitter.com/sethgol... Seth Goldstein runs a tech company. He's a geek. Adverse to more pain than a lot of us. Yet he can't figure out how to delete a list. He's not the only one to tell me that FriendFeed is too difficult to figure out. FriendFeed still needs a design rethink to make these issues go away.
- Robert Scoble
Sameer: Agree.
- Manuel Mas
Valid points, Robert, but a complex interface, once learned, becomes simple, too - although that's not the best design philosophy for a massively public website.
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
Its the visual impact of seeing too many options even if you dont use them. V. overwhelming for the try and buy new comer
- Sameer
I think it is one of the worst UIs on the web today. Which is why I hardly use it. It violates all the rules of good design. Stuff is not obvious, it is not easy and it is not even quickly learn-able. I've spent years in product management and really, this is one of the worst.
- Shripriya
I think the issue here is Discoverability. There are a lot of little hidden secrets to FriendFeed that become obvious only after you've figured them out. They're not very obvious on their own. Personally, it doesn't bother me but that's because I know it. If I were a new user, I'd be at a loss as well. It seems to me that the primary design goal at FriendFeed is a minimal UI (perhaps at all costs).
- Akiva Moskovitz
Roberto: I can't think of another web app that messes with link affordances the way that FriendFeed does. Can you think of one?
- Robert Scoble
People who figure out how to use a system are often the last ones to recognize how difficult it is to use. It's a self selection thing.
- Ken Sheppardson
But affordances are subjective and reliant on the end-user. Take the @ sign or hashtags for instance. Unless you're talking about Apple, it's hard to blame a designer for affordance rule enforcement.
- Sam Harrelson
There is a balance with "affordances" though -- if you have a very complex set of features you could have a knob/button/link for every feature but that would not work either
- Brian Sullivan
@Robert, do you think FF need More Icon?
- abdellah
Sam: we've all clicked on hundreds of thousands of links. We all have an idea of what happens when you click a link.
- Robert Scoble
Sam, the @sign in Twitter was emergent - something users created.
- Sameer
Sure, but I've seen lots of platforms use the date function as a permalink enabler.
- Sam Harrelson
Manuel, agree. Robert, I wouldn't say it's difficult, but confusing (or useless sometimes). I'm not sure it's a design problem though.
- Orli Yakuel
abellah: an icon is probably better than a link, yes. I know that Kevin (from an interview I did with him more than a year ago) likes sparse UIs. He is of the school that you just watch where people trip over themselves and then build UI for that. I think that's smart, but I wish that FriendFeed would iterate its UI faster to pave paths where people are having troubles.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, sorry, but you're late on this trend too :) First, being not to follow everyone on Twitter. FF ui has always been terrible. Most tech people I know don't understand how to use it. And I think I use less than 10% of the available features.
- Shripriya
I like FriendFeed as it is. It's obviously a power users tool as is, but then I wouldn't want it stupid simple reminiscent of installing a Windows OS. There just needs to be a decent screencast on the home page explaining all the features. No one reads FAQs these days. Video Game designers just turn the first level into a tutorial for 99% who won't read the manual and I don't mind. Maybe FF needs a tutorial when you first sign up?
- CannonGod
Think about the affordances of FF and compare them with Twitter. Then compare the relative effectiveness of desktop / mobile applications developed for both. There is not a one good app for FriendFeed. This is because of the MANY "extra shite" links and an overly complex API, not because of popularity differences in the services.
- Michael Owens
from iPhone
Holy shit this item is already in Google: http://www.google.com/search... -- Google is going real time!
- Robert Scoble
Great designs shouldn't need tutorials.
- Manuel Mas
@Sameer right, but we created the @ sign to do a certain feature. Folks on identi.ca have their own signifiers. That will inevitably happen here as well as folks grow comfortable with this platform.
- Sam Harrelson
Shripriya - I think most people who come back dont find it confusion. Its the first timers that run away - and thats FFs biggest problem.
- Sameer
Needless to say, we all love Friendfeed, but we also need a Greasemonkey script to learn which service was posting into the time-line, and the entire issue of groups/rooms really needs a rethink because it's so hard to find any, especially If you're a newcomer..
- Nir Ben Yona
Engagement is deep; Adoption is sparce.
- Sameer
TV ads (at least in australia) are considered misleading if "a person of slightly less than average intelligence" misinterprets them... i think you will find that it takes "smart techies" a while to figure out the nuances of ff, not saying everything should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, but the defaults that way would give everyone a great start... especially when introducing innovative stuff (like "the live web") :)
- simran
Scoble: That Google real time thing is even more impressive than this discussion!
- Manuel Mas
Manuel - Yes. I like to say that if you need to write a manual for your product, it's too complicated.
- Jeff Harbert
Shripriya: I've been complaining about this stuff both in public and in private for a long time. And I wasn't behind in following everyone on Twitter. Come and study how I use FriendFeed to follow small groups of people closely, especially for Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Wow, this did get into Google fast.
- phil baumann
Robert: Holy shit, that's impressive - http://www.google.com/search... - sod Twitter I say, if you're in marketing then you need to get on FriendFeed for instant Google indexing of a subject!
- CannonGod
@Manuel there will be always a need to manual and tutorial, people have to sell or to promote so event if you have to explain a basic evidence, write a document make it in pdf format, sell it or share it, but for the sake of simplicity please never ever do FB style document.
- abdellah
UI design is a very difficult thing to do because so many people have different ways they use things. However, I do agree with you Robert that FF does need a redesign to make more of the feature more user-intuitive.
- Jack Wilson, K4SAC
Sameer - I've been back many times, I still barely use it. All the stuff Robert mentions, I had no clue. And its not worth my the time investment.
- Shripriya
i would expect to see the tweet before this one.. http://www.google.com/search...
- Orli Yakuel
Robert - the twitter thing (ie. unsubscribing and not following everyone) was a bit of a joke. But on FF, you are the biggest proponent. If you can't get them to change, no one can.
- Shripriya
Phil: THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT GOOGLE REAL-TIME INDEXING! XD
- CannonGod
Agree Sam, but Twitter nor identi.ca expose a gazillion features in the core app.. Its about managing the "first impression is the lasting impression" thing
- Sameer
Here's the interview I did with Kevin last year: http://qik.com/video/73962 Shripriya: yeah, I keep hearing that from other people I try to evangelize FriendFeed to. One guy, who is a tech advisor to celebrities in Hollywood told me they will never use it because it's too hard to figure out and because there aren't good mobile clients for it, like there are for Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Jake - :)
- phil baumann
@Sameer That's true for a certain demographic, but I look at sites my 8th graders frequent often and I have no idea how they put up with the features. Or take an xBox 360 controller... lots of buttons that do way too many things for my old 30 year-old mind, but my students find it intuitive.
- Sam Harrelson
http://scobleizer.com/2008... - 18 months ago you said their UI was brilliant :)
- Mark
Shripriya- thats ok. Plenty of people I personally know that have signed up for Twitter and never come back because they couldn't find a use case. No app is for everyone. Its about appealing to a large number of folks that see relevance.
- Sameer
Wow, not only is this indexed in Google, but the Likes are getting indexed as well. Don't see the comments indexed yet, tho.
- Sam Harrelson
Maybe FF will always be the power aggregation tool online that only a few use. But is the "few" large enough? I wonder.
- Shripriya
47 emails in my gmail inbox already from this thread (as i commented and said follow updates on twitter)... surely they can batch them at least by the minute... after all... email isn't realtime :)
- simran
Search results for "I don't get FriendFeed" - http://friendfeed.com/search...
- phil baumann
Mark: you took me out of context. I said it both sucks AND is brilliant. That is true. Even today.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert, can I add that UI is so clean that functionality are just a part of the design, they need to make more light on them (hey they are all blue link the same sized blue link) :)
- abdellah
The missing mobile client certainly is a downer. I love a lot about FriendFeed, but lack of a *good* mobile client, and other minor annoyances may keep me from staying here. Sure I know I will come back from time to time (and I haven't left yet), but not sure I can live here on a daily basis like I can with Twitter because of the great clients for my desktop and phone, like TweetDeck.
- Timothy Federwitz
Sam, the feature laden apps you mention that your students use, have intent built in them. The purpose is known before you came. XBox = don't do homework. Hell, Id learn how to use very button too :)
- Sameer
I think FF is a different beast altogether and not as easy to create a mobile app for, based solely on service functionality and what we actually do here.
- Manuel Mas
Tim: that's why I like the IM integration wtih GTalk. Gets around the site UI and works great on the mobile as well.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Scoble: I think this was a pretty rude way of giving your feedback. Why are you being so provocative lately?
- Eric Florenzano
from iPhone
difficult for who? the basics are easy....getting the most out of all the tools available is a different story but at least the tools are there. Not so in twitter
- Craig Shipp
Sameer: Yep, good point. Similarly, I see FriendFeed having a very useful apparatus in my work/personal flow as a news/twitter/info client. I mostly use it via IM but also find the site pretty intuitive for how I use it and prefer it over Twitter, etc.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Eric: because no one engages unless you make a strong point and I sure wish Kevin would fix this stuff so I can evangelize FriendFeed better.
- Robert Scoble
Craig: I have shown FriendFeed to many hundreds of people over the past year and I keep getting this complaint over and over.
- Robert Scoble
I disagree with that approach Robert. A strong point is not always necessary. Most times it's a turn off and sets the wrong tone. Sure you get a lively discussion, but half of it is trying to explain you're not reallllly upset about it.
- Bwana ☠
It's fine to complain but I don't see any useful suggestions here from Robert or any other commenters. A problem without a proposed solution is essentially a whine.
- Brian Sullivan
Bwana: we've been complaining about these issues for more than a year. And I am upset about it. It keeps me from having a good time evangelizing FriendFeed. Just search here for how many people don't get FriendFeed. And those are the ones who'll tell you in public.
- Robert Scoble
Just reading this, I have learned 4 things I DID NOT KNOW about friendfeed functionality.
- Liza
Back again, to say FF still isn't cool!
- K.N. Ajit Narayan
Robert: I couldn't disagree more. Please don't fall into that Arrington/Loren Feldman trap. People engage in a more constructive way when the topic is interesting. Just look at Leo's shows for proof that I'm right.
- Eric Florenzano
from iPhone
I didn't say this wasn't a case for a strong point, I'm simply stating it's not always necessary per your statement "no one engages unless you make a strong point"
- Bwana ☠
Liza: that's another reason I did it in a strong way. I knew it would get engagement. WHen you get engagement your item gets spread to more and more people and that helps out the community overall.
- Robert Scoble
Timestamp? Click, double click? Permalink? I wish I knew all of this before.
- Liza
Ultimately the best thing to happen to FriendFeed would be the mass proliferation of 3rd party apps that offer a better user experience overall. Let the market sort out best functional IxD. How many highly active Twitter users use Twitter.com regularly? Not many, because there are several Twitter apps that afford a more active Twitter experience. Without them, Twitter would be news from 2006.
- Laura Scott (@lauras)
I disagree. I came here because I agree with the point (as I stated in another thread), not because of the strongness. You may attract certain types with that, but not moi.
- Bwana ☠
I also show twitter and friendfeed to a lot of new Internet users and they get confused easily. I think the only solution is to show one simple process and then after they master that for a week or so then show them another feature.
- Craig Shipp
The best level of engagement that I've seen regarding Leo Laporte is when Arrington called him out openly and there was the big fuss of him getting thrown off the show. Just saying.
- Michael Owens
from iPhone
Eric: OK, heard and understood. But name another designer who does stuff with links that Kevin does. That needs to be pointed out strongly, I think. But then I get crazy about design, especially when people keep telling me over and over that FriendFeed is too hard to use and figure out. Even Liza, who has been here a lot, didn't know all that stuff was "hidden" under the affordance of the link.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - I appreciate your sharing this info, but it feels strange that all of this seems like a secret. Intention is bizarre.
- Liza
So Robert, do you really think Kevin and FF are actively ignoring this issue?
- Bwana ☠
Bwana: yes. Why? Because it's been like this for 18 months.
- Robert Scoble
As a user, I do feel like it is intentionally hidden.
- Liza
Interesting
- Bwana ☠
It isn't about ignoring. It's about continuance. These affordances have been here since FF started.
- Michael Owens
from iPhone
Michael: and they f**k with the affordances that everyone has learned on EVERY OTHER WEB SITE. This is why I used strong language.
- Robert Scoble
Oh, and the "new ui" upgrade that happened a while back did nothing but add to the hidden complexity
- Michael Owens
from iPhone
Robert, The UI's difficulty is best expressed in comment threads with a huge number of comments, such as yours - http://friendfeed.com/bitchfe...
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
And I am tech savvy, not an idiot, but the argument is, oh, you just aren't enough of a techie to get it.
- Liza
I think the beauty of friendfeed is the fact that it can be used as a very basic tool but also has the power to do much more in the right hands
- Craig Shipp
Who are the right hands?
- Liza
And once these get fixed, the real thing that people can't figure out is what is new. On every other website there's an affordance for that. Even in SimplyTweet new Tweets are green. Quick, figure out what is new here that you haven't seen from the last time you were here. You can't.
- Robert Scoble
Robert speaks truth.
- Bwana ☠
Craig: That's the biggest copout I've ever heard. Maybe Kevin needs to go bak and read "Don't Make Me Think" by Steve Krug.
- Michael Owens
from iPhone
Liza: people like me who click on everything looking for secret features. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Don't Make Me Think ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...) by Steve Krug may be the kind of design you are looking for.
- Todd Hoff
@Todd: great minds think alike
- Michael Owens
from iPhone
Robert: but even Wordpress.com uses the date affordance as a permalink. http://bit.ly/Dwnm6 I understand the concerns about the mass of feature clarity here, but I don't see that particular date/link function as a standard bearer.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Scoble: OK point taken. So let's make this constructive: what should they do to fix it? For the timestamp, my suggestion is to make it bluer and underlined--which everyone associates with links. Do you agree? How can they fix the hide functionality, though? I'm struggling to think of a way.
- Eric Florenzano
from iPhone
Liza: I found a lot of bugs in WIndows 95 by unplugging my mouse and trying to use the entire UI via the keyboard. But then I'm weird. Most people will never try anything. In fact, Google's own research shows that fewer than 1% will click on "advanced search." These weird affordances are even harder than THAT to figure out.
- Robert Scoble
So if this doesn't change, FF may not get as wide of an adoption that it deserves. Hide, permalinks, and little things make a huge difference. The technology is too good for this to be its downfall.
- Bwana ☠
Not having older items shaded or otherwise marked as old does effectively contribute to noise.
- phil baumann
I'm not saying friendfeed can't be made better. I'm just saying it can be used from a basic level with little training.
- Craig Shipp
I was accused of working for Friendfeed at an event 2 nights ago, for being an evangelist, and I still know very little about the functionality. AND I do like to think, I do click on a lot, but I also appreciate the intention of inclusion.
- Liza
Eric: I would NOT put two hidden features under one link. They need a tab of "customizations and secret features" and put all that stuff there.
- Robert Scoble
I'm not sure it's ever going to change at this point... which is sad
- Bwana ☠
Liza: everyone knows I'm so excited about FriendFeed that they whine when I don't bring it up. Seriously. It's funny.
- Robert Scoble
Whoops sorry Michael, didn't see yours. But it is a good book. Affordances is a bit abstract. He does a good job making the idea concrete.
- Todd Hoff
what social site is better?
- Craig Shipp
Twitter made a big improvement with contextual menu, such may add a value in FF too.
- abdellah
Craig: define better. Twitter is easier. Facebook has more hooks and more users.
- Robert Scoble
Which social site has the better UI?
- Bwana ☠
Bwana: which is why I used strong language.
- Robert Scoble
Until FB and twitter update in real time they aren't even in the game as far as I'm concerned
- Craig Shipp
Robert: Twitter has the best UI?
- K.N. Ajit Narayan
better UI!! ask myspace ugly by purpose.
- abdellah
The problem is w/o knowing the affordances, Newbies create too much noise, feel embarassed and retreat - felt that but did not retreat
- Liza
Facebook used to have a great UI imho. It's changed so much, now I can't find anything
- Bwana ☠
FF has the better UI would be my guess. But better is such a subjective word.
- Brian Sullivan
K.N. define "best." It's certainly easier to understand than FriendFeed is. Especially if you use a great client like SimplyTweet on my iPhone or Seesmic on my desktop.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble: I'm not sure about the tab idea. It would add a lot of visual load on ever pageview. Instead, I'm thinking maybe if hide was a hover dropdown. When you hover over it, it says "Hide just this item", and "Hide all items like these" so that you know what you're getting into. This could work just like the top subnavigation items in many websites, which people are familiar with. Thoughts?
- Eric Florenzano
Agree Twitter's UI is great - was in a studygroup of power users - most of us use web interface with multiple browsers rather than Tweetdeck, b/c simplicity is preferred.
- Liza
Eric: this is why I'm not a UI designer. I like your solution better.
- Robert Scoble
Hover is an evil thing in a real-time interface
- Bwana ☠
I may repeat it but contextuel menu, yes do it well, that all , FF have to do that , twitter have done it.
- abdellah
i hate chasing links
- Bwana ☠
Bwana: Ahh yeah, good point. Maybe it would have to pause realtime (considering you are actually doing an action)
- Eric Florenzano
Robert: Was talking about Twitter, the site...It's really easy to work with, provided you are not following too many people..
- K.N. Ajit Narayan
On FF you can type in the box and hit enter. How difficult is that?
- Craig Shipp
Yeah Eric, it would have to
- Bwana ☠
Even this thread is hard to read. No ability to specifically reply etc. Another reason I rarely visit.
- Shripriya
FF used to pause real time whenever you your cursor was over a posting or its comments-- somehow that feature got removed.
- Brian Sullivan
Basically, Robert, you're saying that FF is too clever for its own good.
- Glen Mistletoe
Shripiya: This conversation will definitely stink unless you find the hidden permalink
- Bwana ☠
lisa, that's one thing and four words :)
- Craig Shipp
Which supports Robert's argument
- Bwana ☠
I don't know if I will be able to handle a better FF
- Craig Shipp
I went to grab a glass of water, and have no clue what is going on now - see what I mean?
- Liza
@Craig Oh for sure you can remember the alpha version and when beta come.
- abdellah
Maybe using IM is best, don't know, but, for now, I find it labor intensive vs. Twitter. I like BOTH, and I will continue to use BOTH, but that does not mean there are not simple fixes to improve the UI.
- Liza
@liza no you know for sure what is going on , you know that this thread is about "....", you remmeber what you have said before, you remember the person for whome you talked so for sure you know were you are at the discussion.
- abdellah
It would be nice to see some of the FF team on this discussion, Kevin Fox in particular.
- phil baumann
I want to reply to indiv comments, it is impossible unless I say @robert or HEY BWANA, that is silly, crappy design. Am I missing something? Plus, everyone calls me LISA not LIZA, so I can hardly answer the questions directed at me without looking for both.
- Liza
Robert should have cc'd the FriendFeed feedback room
- Bwana ☠
Phil: it is Sunday and they do need some time off of their work. Hopefully Kevin will show up tonight or tomorrow.
- Robert Scoble
Liz: yep, I love FF's IM integration. I've got a popout window open on the side of my desktop and can keep up with things (from this thread and everything I monitor on FF) much more easily.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
LIZA - not lisa or liz, ha ha
- Liza
With that said, I love FriendFeed's comment UI. That's what hooked me to the service
- Bwana ☠
After reading about affordances (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...), it appears the problem is that many of them are hidden when they should be perceptible.
- Glen Mistletoe
Robert - I am clicking on everything in site, so if I blow up something, oops, sorry.
- Liza
Liza apologies. multi-tasking fail.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Glen, yep, that's where discoverability comes in. Things should be easy to discover based on visual cues. It shouldn't be like playing a game of Myst.
- Akiva Moskovitz
UNaffordances
- Liza
Robert - yeah, even if they read this tomorrow, there's good stuff here that's important if the service it to grow in use.
- phil baumann
Say it with me folks : User-friendly-ability. We HAZ NONE here.
- Sean
Robert - now that you are here, I also think it is a mistake to expect users to choose FF or Twitter - recently you have backed off and choose to use both, BUT many of your "followers" are testy with those of us who use both. Until FF is easier to use, I will use both. That is my choice. Positioning FF as Twitter hating is bad move, ppl.
- Liza
Who is positioning FF as a Twitter hater? Some people hate Twitter (I personally think Twitter is a waste of mindwidth). How does that have anything to do with FF other than the fact that they post on FF?
- Brian Sullivan
Brian, do a search, you will find MANY ppl are positioning FF as anti-twitter, and I don't agree with the approach. I personally get a LOT of grief from both sides of the fence for using both, and I am not going to pick a side just b/c others tell me I should.
- Liza
Annoyance: There's no comment, like, etc link at the bottom of the comments. So... I read 160+ comments and have to scroll back to the top to comment? WTF?
- Kevin Donahue
Kevin - yes, that is a frustration.
- phil baumann
Kevin, totally agreed with that comment, especially when using via the iPhone. It's nice to see comments per OP, but the UI for managing things is horrible and wastes a lot of time, denting my enthusiasm for more participation.
- Sally Church
Officially PISSED OFF - using IM FAIL. Opens new page for every feed. Then I respond in Gtalk and get unknown command. F this. Time to breath deep and try not to explode.
- Liza
Liza, type in "help" for the list of commands in IM or there's a list on the site. Not sure about the page thing... I don't get that in GTalk.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Liza: consistently when people meet me they ask "what is next after Twitter?" I don't answer FriendFeed, I wish I could.
- Robert Scoble
I don't like help menus or reading instructions. I appreciate your efforts, but I am just pissed off in general b/c I like to figure things out on my own. I can't spend yrs clicking on FF for hidden treasures.
- Liza
People always ask me why should they use FriendFeed over Twitter.... it gets old after a while
- Bwana ☠
Robert - exactly, if we knew what was next, it would be dull. Beauty in playing, mashing, exploring.
- Liza
Wow Robert, way throw out an HCI term! Are we going to discuss GOMS or Fitts' Law next? :-)
- Bill Welense
from iPhone
Bwana - I gave it a shot yesterday with some success in the last day. - http://ff.im/6kbAN
- phil baumann
Robert - nice comment. Would love to tweet it to share, but don't know how to isolate it on this f-d up interface.
- Liza
Liza - I'd like to be able to tweet comments they way Disqus allows it.
- phil baumann
This is Liza frustrated and cranky, sorry for letting my evil twin out, but this feed triggered it. #blamescoble
- Liza
I'm wondering if FriendFeed will remain the domain of us geeks. Is that a BIG enough market for their business model though?
- Jim Connolly
I secretly hope so, Jim. Twitter was great in 2006 B.K. (Before Kutchner) when it was populated only by geeks :)
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Holden: Well, I'm pretty sure someone hopes to make some money from FF.
- Jim Connolly
Sam: I have to admit, I would hate to see FF flooded like Twitter is.
- Jim Connolly
The fact is Robert that These problems have never crossed my mind. Actually, come to think of it. A unified settings page would be nice. However. Just becuae the UI is unconventional, going against the grain, does not mean it's a bad UI. I'd love to see a mockup of how you would do it better.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Holden: I didn't say it wasn't great. I still use and love Twitter. I just miss the good ole days.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Don't even get me started with a wish list of options.
- Liza
CONFESSION: I did not know until now about double clicking on the time-link to get a pop-out window.
- Jim Connolly
Holden: Twitter's a spam-filled hunk of crap.
- Jim Connolly
Holden: You may not automatically see a business model, but they would have had to produce something to get $$$ funding. BTW: Twitter's got the audience, though. It's where the people are. Only reason I use it.
- Jim Connolly
Friendfeed is not difficult to use. It is so intuitive. I love that I can easily block certain things, search for items that have a specific number of likes, see a user's likes, etc. It's wayyyyyyy easy.
- Ben Hanten
Ben: A lot of new users tell me they can't figure it out.
- Jim Connolly
they're not trying then, Jim
- Chris Heath
If this was put up to a vote, I would vote to have a better FAQ, but I would definitely keep the design as free of extra buttons as possible.
- Ben Hanten
Hmm, wow, lots of comments fast on this post. Too bad it's a Sunday, I imagine Kevin is up to other things right this second...
- Jason Wehmhoener
Can someone help me find the link to create imaginary friend?
- Krishnamoorthy
Holden, well that's their loss if they can't 'get it' - friendfeed is simple and IMHO if you can't 'get it' then that's your problem, not friendfeed's
- Chris Heath
Krishnamoorthy - http://friendfeed.com/setting...
- phil baumann
the Imaginary Friend function is now a part of Groups. for example, I created a private "group" with my wife's name and brought in all of her feeds since she's not on FriendFeed.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Ok, the imaginary friend thing is a different story. Awesome concept; but way too much work to add a bunch of users.
- Ben Hanten
I think a good start would be to have a totally different "entry point" for setting up hiding rules. Also, defaults might need to be reconsidered. Is it the best to always start off by showing everything from a user? FF already asks you to select your "top five" feeds you want to show off in your profile... Could it make sense to only show stuff from people's top five by default, so one needs to opt-in to get any more of their feeds?
- Meryn Stol
Perhaps a big, dedicated "mute Twitter" (though I'd prefer "Kill Twitter" ;)) button would also make sense. After all, Twitter is in itself responsible for most items - and thus most potential "noise" - on FriendFeed.
- Meryn Stol
you can still quickly create an imaginary friend (as Sam said it's part of groups now) but if you don't want to choose the private group setting yourself just go here http://friendfeed.com/setting...
- Chris Heath
maybe i'm wrong and an imaginary friend is different than a private group, but the functionality seems the same - there was a discussion a few months ago about this: http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Chris Heath
Chris, yep... good point.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Imaginary friends are easy to setup, but... you really should be able to do a whole batch of them.
- Ben Hanten
Ben, it's rather janky, but my students have private Twitter accts for labs in my class that I read and interact with using the Imaginary Friends + private Groups feature. Plus, I have a nice archive of all student activity that I can search through. Not a great solution, but a good workaround for my extreme case.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
there's a lot on the friendfeed roadmap, and i think that's one of the items... if you participate in the friendfeed feedback room you can get lots of answers to these types of questions http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Chris Heath
You can search for the official FriendFeeders' feedback, as Chris suggested, with this saved search: https://friendfeed.com/ffss...
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Interesting topic. For me personally I use FF for reading rather than contributing or commenting, and via mobile more than the web, but I do agree the UI isn't the best. I would like a google reader or better still, a Feedly style interface. I want to know about what I haven't seen that's in my groups or feeds. And I want that simple and easy with no hidden features or maybe simple and expert interfaces.
- Keith Bennett
from BuddyFeed
You'r right Robert.
- ALPER DURUKAN
It's not the UI that's keeping the mainstream from using the site. This is akin to asking why the mainstream has yet to discover the wonders of traditional message boards. Fact of the matter is most people don't have the desire (not to mention spare time) to continually engage with a stream full of random social media tidbits on a regular basis. But if that's your cup of tea, I think the UI is excellent for sharing, discovering, and keeping up with the real-time chatter.
- Aviv
ANNOYANCE: Why is it so difficult to find a list of just my "likes"? I can't find it at all. I can only find my likes through the "My discussions" link. Ugh.
- Kevin Donahue
Kevin, it's pretty simple to get to your likes. http://friendfeed.com/samharr...
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Has Kevin Fox responded to this thread?
- Manuel Mas
Not sure he should -- seems like Robert made vicious and personal attack -- and a lack of response might be appropriate and classy.
- Brian Sullivan
I certainly wouldn't join into this pile-on if I were Kevin. "Oh hey, I noticed you all were kicking me while I was trying to have a weekend, here I am now, go ahead for another round!"
- Jason Wehmhoener
On the bright side, you know your service is about to hit mainstream when your biggest cheerleader starts to hate it (see Twitter).
- Aviv
Aviv: nah, that's not a good predictor.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Have you noticed that the time stamp behavior of acting like a permalink is pretty much the norm across many sites? Check facebook and twitter for example.
- Tsega Dinka
One thing I would like to know is, where is the link in friendfeed to the application key? I always have to search it from google.
- Ru Viljoen
it's unnecessary to be brutally rude RB but these comments are valuable, we are expecting alot from 12 FF supergeeks, they cannot be perfect but they are incredibly good already.
- Thomas Power
I think "hide" was perfectly designed. The user doesn't get smacked in the face immediately upon loading a page in friendfeed that resembles the control panel of an old fashioned telephone switchboard. One simple hide link, that the user will click when they want to hide something, that then asks what you want to hide. It's called not overwhelming the user with too much info at once,...
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- April Russo (app103)
April: they can put a lot of functionality into "settings" that would also do the same thing as hide does today. Most people don't figure out that the hide link has extra functionality.
- Robert Scoble
It's better than what facebook does, which is to hide their multi-function hide button, until you hover over the item. I'd rather have it the friendfeed way and at least know it's there by looking and not by having to play "find the invisible features" game by moving my mouse all over the page waiting for all the little facebook easter eggs to make themselves known. You have no idea how...
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- April Russo (app103)
I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE YELLING! I LOVE LAMP!
- Mark "DerBingle" J
(I'm being facetious. Robert's STRONG points are still pretty tactfully expressed, IMHO.)
- Mark "DerBingle" J
And I don't understand how any twitter user could possibly not know that the timestamp is a permalink. Timestamps on twitter are permalinks too. Ok, the clicking again thing was a bit of an easter egg, but how else could you add a nifty little feature like that without adding any clutter? Even if you gave a full tutorial FAQ, how on earth could you present all these little extras in a way that doesn't overwhelm a newbie and make them run away without reading the huge FAQ?
- April Russo (app103)
Missing the point, not about geeks vs non-geeks, even geeks disagree on UI issues,and it is dismissive and insulting to act as if mainstream is not geeky enough to understand crappy UI. My opinion matters, and it was not until a fellow geek, Scoble, brought it up that anyone acknowledged that there may be some UI issues.
- Liza
So go back to using twitter.
- jcunwired
I know of a site that has worse issues, for example, clicking the RSS icon on a page takes you to a forum thread with a gazillion posts explaining how to subscribe to the content you want, using all the custom crap they have. You basically have to learn how to build your own RSS url before you can subscribe. And don't click the "Mark" button on a forum thread there unless you want to...
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- April Russo (app103)
FF may be messing with affordances, but I don't see it as f*cling with them. I see it as an attempt to innovate. The 'nonintuitive' behavior is a bit of a PITA, but it adds richness to the app. It is also innovation in action. The most painful upshot of suck innovation ia the fet associated with playing with a UI's functionality - you might end up breaking something really important or...
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- Jason Miller
from iPhone
JCUnwired That is not helpful or constructive. Stick to one-sided debates.
- Liza
Funny thing is though... I have used Excel and Word without ever reading a manual. Now I'm pretty ninja at both but never had any formal training. Neither has about 95% of the people I know how use it, yet everyone I know has worked it out enough to use it well. See, they have these things up the top like File, Edit etc that hold the functions. Those things are not always required and...
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- Johnny Worthington
Which social app has the best interface? Easy Facebook.
- John Hardy
As far as I can tell "affordance" and "discoverability" are different ways of looking at the same concept. And I've been complaining about the timestamp thing for a long time.
- Karl Knechtel
I've been complaining about FF's ease of use since I started using it. I'm glad there's some traction on it. ridiculous that the time stamp is not displayed as a (permanent) link.
- jbrotherlove
Never mind that the timestamp isn't displayed as a link. The problem is that it makes no sense for the timestamp to be the thing that is clicked.
- Karl Knechtel
I like it, its a nice gate. It keeps FF tech based. It keeps things relevant. Its an Acid Test. There are plenty of alternatives. And those alternatives that cater to everyone, are full of Blither Blather. If you pass the gate, and pass the Acid Test, you learn about the community and the discussion. With a robust Community and Discussion, Self Policing and Spammers are annihilated. Self Healing Robust System.
- Robert Higgins
Apostol Apostolov, Ana ( http://friendfeed.com/ana ) has confirmed that they're on the issue of adding recipients and groups after posting an item about a month ago - http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Chris Heath
I totally agree with Robert HIggins & Johnny Worthington's recent comments
- Chris Heath
Robert, thanks for your thoughts. Three quick responses: affordances aren't something that someone fucks with, they're something that a designer gives to a design and it's fine to say that you don't think I'm designing a product with proper affordances or strong enough affordances, but the implication that I fucked them up is that I took the gestalt natural affordances of something and...
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- Kevin Fox
The above distinction is important because the argument then becomes one of whether or not FriendFeed has been imbued with proper affordances or not. Now naturally the answer varies from person to person, as it does with any UI for any product. FriendFeed is trying to balance functionality with simplicity and, as is the case for any product with that task, any point on the spectrum could be criticized for either hiding too much of the complexity or showing too much, even at the same by different people.
- Kevin Fox
So the strategy then becomes, as has been mentioned here, one of making the simple things easy and the complex things possible. The most common tactic to enable that strategy, and one we rely upon a lot at FriendFeed, is that of progressive disclosure. This works for some people and not for others, but it's usually an excellent way to make a UI that's not intimidating to a new user, and...
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- Kevin Fox
As for the timestamp also acting as the permalink: Well, you're absolutely right. This is a completely improper affordance that only makes sense if you happen to be familiar with blogs that use the same convention. Fixing this (with something less heavy-handed than a link that says 'link' or 'permalink' or (gasp) an icon of two links in a chain) is high on our list and I want to fold it...
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- Kevin Fox
When we get that worked out in a way we're happy with then we'll roll it out. Until then, it's also important to consider user confidence, and that tweaking a UI too often when trying to find the right answer makes users less comfortable with the design and their ability to manipulate it, even if they don't consciously notice any change. For this reason a few things stay rough a little longer until we have what we think is the right answer, not just a stopgap one.
- Kevin Fox
As always, thanks for the feedback, and for trying to make FriendFeed a better place.
- Kevin Fox
Wow
- Bwana ☠
Wow. +500 xp to Kevin.
- Sam Harrelson
Kevin I love you because you explain why you are messing with the affordances! :-)
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Doesn't sound like they're ignoring it to me, Robert :)
- Bwana ☠
Bwana: me neither! Glad Kevin explained.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I'm liking this article simply because of Kevin's explanation of why things are the way they are here on friendfeed. He knocked that one out of the park.
- Alex Scoble
Kevins camp. In Japanese there is one word for beauty. Kirei. Actually, it is the same word for Clean Kirei. 奇麗 FF for me is clean and beautiful. "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Leonardo daVinci
- Robert Higgins
So if we're going to change the time stamp from being a permalink, can we use it to sort posts chronologically? That is the one affordance no one can discover.
- Andrew Smith
I didn't read the full thread, but reading the top and (what is at this point) the bottom really helps me understand what the UI people do. Thanks Robert and Kevin!
- Andrew
Big props to Kevin Fox.
- Sameer
Kevin rocks. Even on a Sunday night. They pay me to say stuff like that at work. The thought of having to step up to the plate anytime 24/7 with that level of professionalism is daunting, to say the least. So yah, big props to Kevin Fox.
- Jason Wehmhoener
I actually like the current UI. I like the feature set. I agree it DOES need a more intuitive and quicker way to know about and learn the deeper features.
- George Hall (Australia)
There is something to be said for having the conversation first - then Kevin calmly explaining his pts. It gives others a chance to respond honestly, and then Kevin gets far more valuable feedback. Selifishly, I also like the fact that I can see others' views - many who did not address UI issues but showed a defensive sense of entitlement (see Louis's chart on new adopters)...Robert,...
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- Liza
Great responses Kevin. For the record, I'm a fan of the "progressive disclosure" approach.
- Mike Doeff
from iPhone
Really great points, Robert. I've learned some things because of this discussion. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
- Brian Adrian
One answer to Kevin. Blogs, since the beginning of when I started to use them used the "permalink" or "#" convention. I guess the thing is that in FriendFeed the CSS here is hiding the blue underline, so people don't know that the time stamp is a link. It's tough designing for the web, I know. That's why I don't do it. At least very often. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Twitter uses a time stamp as a perma-link as well. </fuel to fire>
- Bwana ☠
Yeah. I just tweeted about that myself. </more fuel to fire>
- Dennis Jernberg
Fascinating. Didn't know about the timestamp as permalink, but I didn't suffer from unnatural affordance issues prior to reading this discussion either. Not an ubergeek, but I don't suffer. So, maybe FF is not "above the heads" of the average, but merely yields enough at any level to meet whatever the particular need might be, wacky affordances or not. And people who avoid it because it is "too hard" need to toughen up a bit. This is 2009 and the Internet, after all.
- Martha
Also, the "Share" link exposes the permalink as well which I think was a great addition to alleviate the time stamp confusion.
- Bwana ☠
Wow. How did Kevin get those 5 paragraphs contiguously posted? Copy-paste-post. Copy-paste-post? Or is there some other secret weapon not yet released?
- Nick in Manila
Nick - I'd bet 1000 gil on Notepad/Textedit :)
- Bwana ☠
I'm waiting for the twitter theme for friendfeed, to show people exactly how easy FF is to use considering its features and exactly how braindead twitter's UI is.
- Andy Bakun
Nick & Bwana: Textedit and copy/paste/post. As I was c/p/p-ing I thought about how I could make a tool using the API to allow for this kind of thing, then envisioned how that would break FriendFeed and banished the thought. (and then I just commented about it anyhow. Oh what have I wrought? I am become death, destroyer of words.)
- Kevin Fox
Bwana: hey, at least FriendFeed's designer listens and answers back. That might get more mud thrown his way, but a whole lot of love too. Personally Twitter's design isn't very good, but everyone thinks it is because it doesn't have many features so they perceive that as simplicity. I perceive it as inferior but that really pisses off the Twitter types and they start arguing with me about stuff like the above.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - I was just thinking that. We would NEVER get this kind of interaction with a Twitter dev on a work day.
- Bwana ☠
Part of me knew Kevin would address this at some point. It was merely a matter of when.
- Bwana ☠
I hope this thread/conversation doesn't end any time soon, either here on this post or elsewhere. I want FF to be the best it can.
- phil baumann
I think FF is waaaaaay easier to use than Twitter and recently started using FF to follow my twitter feeds. Images and videos are inline and comments are threaded (no silly @ replies). I only wish more of my friends were on it!! (also, it would be nice if comments were formatted with the commenters name first which seems to be the convention on most sites i.e. "May: blah blah blah").
- May
To go back to the top a little bit: does anyone think it ISN'T weird that not all the links on FF are blue? Not just the time stamp: the service your content was imported from, your name at the top of your profile, and the time stamp are all non-blue links. Is there a logical reason for those inconsistencies? I've never understood that.
- Andrew
Awesome explanation by Kevin. I happen to love FF's progressive disclosure. I think the 'hide' feature is a great example of this. You could argue that they might make the second stage a bit more obvious, but it's still a lot better than a huge drop down menu at the start.
- Ben Reierson
Even Twitter has a ramp up time. It took me about a month of working it to get comfortable with it. Only slightly longer than it took me with Twitter. And it is light years better in most every way. I agree with Robert's desire to enforce change through public criticism, but I think it important to keep it in perspective: FF is generally a better experience on all fronts. Kudos to Kevin Fox and the rest of the team. I feel confident they are more than capable of seeing issues and resolving them.
- Martha
i never really had a problem with that Andrew, and I never had the problem with the permalink either... if your mouse changes from pointer to finger, then it's a link and you can see the destination in the status bar
- Chris Heath
Andrew: I actually hate blue underlines. Designers have hated that affordance for years. They look ugly. They make text harder to read. I'm in Kevin Fox's camp on that one. Get rid of underlines! Just make affordances that people can figure out without being told about (like clicking twice on hide or clicking twice on the time stamps).
- Robert Scoble
robert, i don't get your clicking twice on hide problem... hide seems fine, and while i don't use it much i don't recall clicking twice, like with the timestamp
- Chris Heath
Chris: normal people don't mouse over every word in a UI to discover whether there is a secret link there. Also, explain how hovering over "hide" would tell a user that there's different functionality there if you click twice on that word?
- Robert Scoble
Chris: if you click twice on the word "hide" you will get different UI that will give you different choices. If you click twice on the time stamp you will get a popout window. Not intuitive at all.
- Robert Scoble
when i click hide i get an undo and hide options links, that seems the correct UI - i agree with you on the timestamp, but the hide thing isn't the same
- Chris Heath
++Kevin
- Cristo
Chris: Hide does act differently, I agree, but most people, in my experience, don't look at the second page because they don't expect to see more options. Remember 99% of people never click on Google's Advanced Options. Do you REALLY expect people to click twice on Hide? I don't. And even if they did, shouldn't those features be in settings too? Where people expect to find them?
- Robert Scoble
i don't buy your beef w/ hide, but i agree on the timestamp - i also agree with you on not having to hover everything to see if it's click-able and also don't like underlining, so there needs to be some other visual cue of the link/feature
- Chris Heath
sometimes features do need to be learned/taught and everything can't be intuitive... i think we might be overshooting our ideals for usability. remember the days of three ring binders and books and manuals for using any given system or software package? we've come a long way, but users do have to learn some things. i think friendfeed has done a good job of making the site usable for the...
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- Chris Heath
Given a top complaint about FriendFeed is too much noise, Hide needs to be more intuitive.
- Bwana ☠
Since I still get the dumb blonde / not techie treatment from many, I am going to go w/ it and say that even I figured out hide early on. The timestamp stuff was news to me.
- Liza
I'd wager at least half of FriendFeed doesn't know about the second page of hide options. I've had to explain it countless times and a ton of people didn't even know you could selectively hide services based on comment/like behavior, etc
- Bwana ☠
Kevin, Thanks for listening and major props for taking your time to listen to constructive critisicm.
- Jack Wilson, K4SAC
9/10 of the folks that use Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc don't know all the features and functions. Having every single function be completely intuitive and/or labeled is not needed for mainstream acceptance or usage if that's what we're all worried about here.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Every single function, I agree. Hide, needs to be more intuitive.
- Bwana ☠
Bwana, I agree as a power-user, but how many folks would actually use "Hide"? It's an edge-case function that will/would never catch on with the mainstream. I just don't get these complaints.
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
Sam: you're right. But I didn't get this kind of pushback when I evangelized Twitter and Facebook had many more hooks to get people into their system than FriendFeed does (and keep them there) and even Facebook doesn't have a lot of the weird affordances that FriendFeed does even though it's more complex. The complaints I get consistently on FriendFeed (a lot of which have to do with...
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- Robert Scoble
Oh, and the number of comments here tells me a lot of people feel very passionately about FriendFeed and want it to be better, even if they are telling me I'm full of it.
- Robert Scoble
The complaint is noise. There's too much. There's too many duplicates. I don't want to see "X". These are complaints I see and answer often. The solution is hide and they don't know about them. It's not a power user function imho.
- Bwana ☠
FF lost a lot of users during the initial launch because people didn't know about or want to properly hide unwanted stuff.
- Bwana ☠
"FriendFeed is full of baby photos" Classic complaint. Solved by hide.
- Bwana ☠
It's always the user's fault. Always.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Robert, I got on Twitter around Thanksgiving of '06 b/c of your evangelicalism (thank you/curse you btw!). But the concept there was/is much more easy to grok. Of course folks are going to think FF is hard b/c it is hard. But to bastardize JFK, "we choose to go to the moon and do these other things in this decade not b/c they are easy but b/c they are hard!"
- Sam Harrelson
from IM
friendfeed isn't hard...unless you think a blank piece of paper is hard.
- Alex Scoble
Depends on your definition of hard. Some people think complicated or inconvenient is hard.
- Bwana ☠
Alex, have you ever written a book for a publisher that loaned you money and expects the money back? A blank piece of paper is incredibly hard!
- Sam Harrelson
Look at lists. Very powerful tool of FriendFeed, but for some, it's too much work. Some may call it hard, some may call it.... too much work :)
- Bwana ☠
Sam: but this blank piece of paper can write itself thanks to the integration with other sites :)
- Andrew
I know in the apps I've tested, if the UI was difficult for the end user, they would avoid using it.
- Bwana ☠
Andrew, you are completely right. Good point. I'm thinking from a contributing point of view (b/c I'm a teacher and I always want to influence, etc) but you're right.
- Sam Harrelson
Alex: is blank paper sort of like a blank Wordpress entry screen? I get it then.
- Robert Scoble
Seeing a real-time stream of the full conversation is highly desirable and one of the best features of the service. I design and use software all the time and didn't know about the time stamp link until someone told me about it. Robert is doing them (another) favor by using controversial language to bring attention to the issue. I bet we see an update in a week or two and the service will be better for it.
- Chip Ramsey
I can see it now: if entry["from"]["id"] == "scobelizer": theme = "lots-o-links"
- DGentry
either that, or entry["body"] = pigLatinize(entry["body"])
- DGentry
Wow ... Great dialog. Kudos to Kevin for his comments! I have demo'd Friendfeed for more people than I can count. Most of the issue has to do with people's time vs value (or just fun). Is it harder than Facebook? NO! Nobody says you have to use it all and 9 out of 10 people I've demo'd Facebook for have NO IDEA what a permission is (Think about that ... and the defaults?!). Twitter has...
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- Charlie Anzman
Then ... The Friendfeed Browser and OS!
- Charlie Anzman
Robert, given Kevin's responses, you might want to edit/tweak the Original Post/headline. I wish there was a way to promote the comments so they were 'pinned' to the OP
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
Aaman: what's an OP? The headline?
- Robert Scoble
Oh, thank goodness. I was wondering what an OP was, and feeling dumb that I didn't know. I didn't want to have to read 328 comments to find out.
- Glen Mistletoe
Yes, the Original Post - I wasn't familiar with the term myself, and saw it first on this very thread, then googled it. (It can also mean Original Poster)
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
Glen: I'm not scared of feeling dumb. I feel dumb every day given the quality of the people I hang out with.
- Robert Scoble
@Kevin: wondering if there could be a link that would take you to a page that would show what features have been added, disabled, or removed.
- Harold
Robert, you should lock comments, so it's immortalized properly at Kevin's reply
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew: you make sense. I've locked the comments here so you can see Kevin Fox's reply without digging back too far.
- Robert Scoble
My newest post on Techcrunch: 16 Apps That Make Sharing Large Files A Snap - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Nikos Anagnostou, Ouriel Ohayon, Gaith and 3 other people liked this
File sharing services are not as popular today as they were four years ago. It’s not that people are sharing any less. Rather, they just found easier ways to do it. Would you upload a funny video from a friend’s email to any of those services or would you search for it on Youtube and share only the link? Would you upload an MP3 file in order to share with whomever, or would you search for it online, grab the link and then share it? And finally, would you use a file-sharing app just to share a picture on Facebook when you can do it directly from your desktop to your Facebook profile? Of course, you wouldn’t!
- Orli Yakuel
from Bookmarklet
congrulations orli, i really like your post
- Aykut Karaalioğlu
Thank you :)
- Orli Yakuel
TBUZZ: Talk about any Webpage with Twitter Community - http://www.go2web20.net/app...
Just Ken, Azzam, Bill Romanos and 2 other people liked this
thx orli :) Very usefull site ! As usual with you.
- Guy Vander Heyden
:)
- Orli Yakuel
this looks great!
- Nathan Rein
Very cool, looking forward to other versions
- Majento
Hmmm, update button not updating, IE + Chrome
- Majento
The new Bit.ly SideBar Bookmarklet does the same thing.
- Svartling
I personally think this type of tool should be expanded to the the wider web and not just twitter. Is the a tool that can 'access' simultaneously different APIs i.e. friendfeed, backtype, disqus, etc and see what all the rage and buzz is about a page.
- Azzam
Perhaps TBUZZ servers are overloaded.
- Richard Collins
Are their technicians aware of the problem??
- Richard Collins
also try http://convotrack.com/ (made by Backtype)
- Nathan Rein
yeah it's all down down down. I'm about to do something useful, like LAUNDRY.
- Call me Bronco
Sorry, but what do all these clients like Tweetdeck and Seesmic actually *do* again? http://tr.im/lifestream YOU alone should own YOU.
- michael silverton
from PeopleBrowsr
tweetdeck does plenty for me. it makes my work more efficient, actually.
- Call me Bronco
not if twitter is down, though, right? that's all i'm sayin' sarah. if we get too dependent on any one service, we're putting our businesses and very lifestyles at risk of derailment.
- michael silverton
how come you write from twitter if it's down like for hours?
- Orli Yakuel
sure michael, but let's not criticize the clients. that's all i'm saying. twitter is part - but not all - of my business. it's an integral part of my day. i can live without it, but it does contribute to my income.
- Call me Bronco
sounds like you're taking the right approach, sarah; not being dependent. OTOH, i think it's 100% valid to criticize any business that is 100% dependent upon any other SINGLE business. in fact, for business analysts it would be considered akin to malpractice to not disclose such a dependency. ;-)
- michael silverton
ok Michael. but i took your original comment "what do all these clients actually *do*" as an attack on the clients' efficacy. which was what I was defending. If what you meant to say was "it's ludicrous that these clients are solely dependent on a single service" that would be another thing. In any case, Twitter has become increasingly more stable, although obviously still vulnerable to...
more...
- Call me Bronco
cool. i sometimes forget that the whole world doesn't realize that i've been around testing dozens of these clients from the cradle -- how *dare* they! <smile> In a few other threads, we've been talking about identi.ca and similar federated approaches to DISTRIBUTED solutions that are not so vulnerable as single service API's. always sounds all geeky and irrelevant until events like...
more...
- michael silverton
very cool, thanks for sharing. I'm shockingly (blissfully?) ignorant of a lot of these very, very important infrastructure and security issues, I know. I appreciate the discussion.
- Call me Bronco
++Bliss. ;-) With thanks for letting us camp out on your thread, Cathy. Sorry 'bout that. :-(
- michael silverton
too many people on Friendfeed?
shanebe, Denis, Sasha Kovaliov(.com) and 9 other people liked this
it's all falling apart!
- Marcel Weiß
very lively discussion going on here about outages, causes, impacts: http://ff.im/6fF0t
- Susan Beebe
Orli, same thing happened to me. "Oops, there is a problem." It's like we're all turning on the A/C on the hottest day of the summer.
- Derek Huether, PMP, CSM
wow it's struggling but staying up, just...
- immaterial
I'm having problems running searches here. hmmm.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
it feels like struggling to me as well. will friendfeed go down on us?!
- Orli Yakuel
If it goes down will that be a first?
- Parvez Halim
FF is having issues... i hope they are just overloaded due to having lots of users check FF out vs. the issues facing twitter, et al.
- Susan Beebe
FF needs a trigger to shut down integration with Twitter, it may be a bottleneck.
- jcunwired
and... everyone is on Friendfeed again.
Michael Völker, Mo Hall, Gerald Buckley and 8 other people liked this
c'est quand même la première fois que je trouve un intérêt réell à Friendfeed. Quand twitter tombe au moins tu es sûr que c'est pas que sur toi que ça tombe. Merci Friendfeed
- Emgenius
Do you think twitter could lose some users who will stay on friendfeed ?
- Guillaume Simon
the answer is no guillaume.
- Orli Yakuel
friendfeed must be tired of all these booty calls it gets whenever twitter goes down. I really do like ff better. It's just that everyone's at that phrat house.
- paisano
I agree... But i think i'll stay on friendfeed, seems it's easier to have interesting users feedbacks on ff
- Guillaume Simon
n'empêche y"a ke sur FF que tu peux lire un truc aussi énorme que Orli Yakuel a plu à Guillaume Simon... mieux que meetic le truc...
- Emgenius
I'm using them both, and ok with that.
- Orli Yakuel
@Orli what specific use of ff do you make ? same question for twitter ?
- Guillaume Simon
I think it is a good thing for Twitter to go down from time to time. It makes people either appreciate the quiet or other awesome services like FriendFeed.
- Paul Jacobson
what's up with twitter? up or down?
Mo Hall, Roberto Bonini, Morton Fox and 9 other people liked this
http://www.istwitterdown.com - says YES.
- Nir Ben Yona
down
- Alex
rather down
- Nikos Anagnostou
nir, would you trust a link or your friends?
- Orli Yakuel
Most of the time I'd trust my friends, unless there's no other way to connect with them. Thank god Friendfeed works :)
- Nir Ben Yona
Down!
- Bas
api up now?
- kang
I can get access to twitter with all methods i know
- coolxll
Facebook is down as well. Social media breakdown.
- Nir Ben Yona
it's up for me
- Orli Yakuel
Down for me
- Amit Morson
*nods sadly* twitter down, facebook was down-now up, friendfeed up, g-reader up
- immaterial
picture this: a world without twitter...
- Orli Yakuel
oh, so facebook is up, but can't share anything. you?
- Orli Yakuel
It s ok with me i just share a pict of antsirabe under the snow .. was a bit slow but worked!!
- joelle grg
twitter is up again
- Orli Yakuel
down again
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Down....plus FB is down for me as well.
- Neal Jansons
I'll stick with down
- Mads Kristiansen
Connection reset while the page was loading... never got there.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
At least we have ol' reliable FriendFeed to keep you company. :)
- Bryan Lee
Deader than disco...again ;-) ...actuallly I take it back, disco lives!
- Mauricio Reyes
Why Storytlr is the Best Microblogging Platform Creator: http://blog.go2web20.net/2009... (if 5 starts is the top, Storytlr gets a 6★)
Mahendra (SkepticGeek), metalerik and Roldano De Persio of FF liked this
Storytlr saves all of your tweets and you can search thought them! that's a huge bonus!!
- Orli Yakuel
Moreover, you can go to my page and search inside my tweets: http://orli.storytlr.com/home... don't you just want Twitter to enable you that?
- Orli Yakuel
Thanks, Orli. I've been using Chi.mp for a while, and am now checking this out. Liking it so far!
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
I also like chi.mp ;)
- Orli Yakuel
I'm planning a quick summary comparing Chi.mp and StoryTlr. Wonder if anyone's interested.
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
interested or interesting? I think both services are good, but there's lot to compare..
- Orli Yakuel
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