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Carter: Racism plays major role in opposition to Obama - CNN.com - http://www.cnn.com/2009...
Arijit Das, Lester Greenberg, Daryl Hunt on FF and 51 other people liked this
"Former President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday that racial politics played a role in South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst during President Obama's speech to Congress last week and in some of the opposition the president has faced since taking office."
- Atul Arora
from Bookmarklet
sadly, he tells it like it is.
- Tammy Cromer-Campbell
Sounds pretty convenient to me. Any time there's opposition, it's because a majority of people opposed must be racist, not because they have a difference of opinion.
- Garmon Estes
"Honest", funny.
- Carlos Ayala
Joe the Slander Wilson, Joe the Plumner. Who's the next Joe?
- Shane
It's one thing for someone like Sharpton to play the race card, but Carter is a fucking diplomat!
- dthree
What a stupid thing to say!
- Michael Kaiser
Right on, Garmon.
- Kurt Starnes
So typical of Carter. President Obama has some terrific ideas. He also has some that are just bad. I don't agree with a lot of what he has to say. Just because I don't agree with everything he says, does not make me a racist. I have nothing but respect for our President. That was true with the all of them. Even Carter. It's a job most of us are not cut out for and it's one that, no matter what you do, no one is going cut you any slack or give you a break. Former President Carter should know better.
- George Gray
My sentiments exactly, George.
- Kurt Starnes
I think a lot of you are reading what he said and applying it to any and all dissenting opinion when clearly that's not what he's implying. He saying some of the opposition maybe reacting so strongly because of their individual racial bias. It doesn't have to apply to you to be true.
- Jon Gosier
from iPhone
@Joe - I hear you. I guess one would have to define "major role (of racism)" regarding the opposition.
- Kurt Starnes
Yea, like it was racial when you were in office only one term. All colors wanted you out!
- JimmyDee
This is called hey look at the racist over there so we can distract everyone from the fact that we are not moving our issues through like we want. Lets tell everyone it is because of racism not because of the actual issues.
- gfurry
/endorse George Gray's comment
- Mattb4rd
What an embarrassment Carter is.
- You.
I'm confused. When Bush was president and the Libs were calling him a lier, and worse, and our brave soldiers murderers from the House and Senate floors, dissent was the "highest form of patriotism." Now, it seems dissent has become the highest form of racism. Which is it, Libs? Seems to me it's YOU who always play the race card when you start losing the argument. It's a mechanism to shut down debate. "You're a racist! Argument over!" Such a shame.
- Don Smith
@Don - show me the posters with Mr. Bush made up as Hitler, or a Monkey. The Liberals, as you stated, disagreed but did it in a respectful manner letting Mr. Bush state his side without interruption. The Conservative attitude seems to be I will yell as loud as I want to drown you out, as your point of view is "hogwash."
- Stephen Christian
@Stephen: http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty... It's not hard to find this sort of thing if you actually look for it. Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Also see: http://semiskimmed.net/bushhit...
- Otto
Typical response. Play the race card whenever someone agrees with Obama.
- Spencer
@Otto - Thanks, you're right (Hitler comes up too often). As a non-American, looking at it from the outside your country has become VERY polarized and fightening to watch. It appears people don't respect other people's option any longer but go for the yelling over each other.
- Stephen Christian
@Stephen: Keep in mind that only those shouting the loudest get into the press. Especially outside the US; I've noticed that other countries media tends to be biased in this respect, only focusing on the extremists, and ignoring the rest. Those of us actually in the US find that sort of extremism amusing, at best. Also remember that most of those people doing the shouting are idiots, and often don't vote.
- Otto
A hit dog will holler, I guess. You guys act like Carter pointed a finger at you. Also, it's Obama's detractors playing the race card more than anyone else. None of you can deny that there are some who are racially motivated against Obama. It's obvious. How come any time anyone states this fact, you guys come running with your comments about the "race card"?
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
@Rasheen The only people playing race is the Obama side. How come anytime someone disagrees with Obama they are labeled a "racist"? Seriously, it's getting pretty old and sad.
- Spencer
Well, look.. Carter has a point, and no doubt some of the opposition is obviously racist. However, at the same time, when somebody *says* that sort of thing, then it creates a grouping in the minds of his supporters. The notion becomes "disagreeing with Obama = racist" which is, of course, not true in the slightest. This is why Carter should choose his words more carefully. If you want...
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- Otto
@Otto: Well, yes the North American Press (which is a part of an enteratinment company) is all about ratings and therefore shocking to get people to not flip channels / buy our paper / visit our web page. So how is Mrs. Jane Average suppose to get the facts and information to make an informed choice? My memory maybe failing me but the right has always seemed to want to out yell the left and I wonder if you cannot get an information - just yell does anyone even listen any more?
- Stephen Christian
@Stephen: Yes, the press sucks. We are aware of this. But I wouldn't say that the right is more vocal. Whoever is not in charge is the most vocal. The left was just as extreme and vocal when Dubya was in office. It's unfair to paint this as one side being more extreme, because that's simply not true.
- Otto
Oh please. The only ones that keep bringing up race are those against him. I have seen no Obama supporters disregarding all rational discussion against him, using race. Look at how this thread developed as an example. Some agreed with the obvious fact of what Carter said while others randomly lashed out against his sentiment as if it's false.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Someone disagrees with Obama, someone from their side comes out and labels them racist. That's coming from their side, not the people against Obama. Wilson called Obama a "liar", which is based more in truth than race. This started even before Obama was elected, and is just getting worse.
- Spencer
Are us folks who now question Carter racists via proxy?
- Kurt Starnes
The point is, just because some of his opponents are racist, does not mean all are, so threads like this just make no sense to me. You can't deny some of his opponents are racist. I think we can agree on that. No one is calling ALL of his opponents racist. That would be stupid. So I don't see why we keep having these fruitless discussions every time someone points out the race factor.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Here's what Carter said: "I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he's African-American," Carter told NBC News.
- Kurt Starnes
Rahsheen - no doubt "some" of Obama's opponents are racist.
- Kurt Starnes
"demonstrated animosity" does not mean those who just don't agree with him. It means those who are being blatantly disrespectful and perpetuating blatant lies about him. I'm not sure that covers anyone here.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Heck, I had demonstrated animosity against Bush and Clinton (and I'm a white guy)! :->
- Kurt Starnes
@Otto: As I'm not in the U.S. - What was the Loud Left groups / people during the Bush era? I got the impression you're either support us or your a terrorist lover / american solder hater had pretty much killed the left outspoke groups / people.
- Stephen Christian
@Stephen: The problem with that view is that the right never explicitly stated anything along the lines of "us or them", sort of thing. Several off-the-cuff remarks by Bush were along those lines, and the left took it and ran with it to produce that sort of image. It wasn't true, because quite frankly the right was firmly in power at the time and had no need to make that sort of a fuss. All that impression you got came from the left, not the right.
- Otto
I love President Carter. Very smart! In fact Pres Carter did not name names. He just said that a lot the the criticism of President Obama looks like racism. He explained being an old man from the South he believes he's seen racism and reconizes it.
- MarK
Obviously, some of you never watch and read the "main stream" liberal media. The main topic has been that America is full of "racist" Obama haters ever since the TEA Parties and Town Hall Meetings. It's a lie, typically used by Liberals when they're losing the debate. Those of you who have your shorts in a knot about all the yelling, it's only because it seems to be the only way to get...
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- Don Smith
Bill Maher brought it up as well last night. Bill suggested that it's old southern racism bubbling up in subtle ways. No member of Congress would ever do that to a white president. Similar to why parents wouldn't want their kids listening to an Obama speech about something as simple as a message to stay in school; they're subconsciously afraid of a black man speaking to their kids (This is Bill's words, not mine).
- Fleagle
Oh please. Democrats boo'd Bush, did all kinds of things when he was speaking.
- Spencer
Maher should be reminded of the treatment Bush #2 received during a State of the Union address, IMO. Was it because he was white? 2¢ *Edit - Spencer beat me to it.
- Kurt Starnes
Oh please, Bill Maher? He's the biggest idiot on the planet for Pete's sake! Carter should just thank God for Obama. He finally has a chance not to be the worst President in history.
- Don Smith
+++++Rahsheen But I think you're talking into the wind. These people revel in their victimhood. It makes them feel special...or something.
- Admiral Anika
Don, pretty sure GW Bush has the worst president title locked up for the foreseeable future. A record of failure unblemished by success.
- Kevin Pedraja
Anika, I think you're right. This is actually one of like 3 threads I've been involved with on the same general topic and the result is the same.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
From now on, anyone that disagrees with anything I say is hereby labeled a racist. I'm married to a Mexican-American, and it's a well known fact that racists don't like 'mixed race marriages,' and would do anything to discredit my assertions based on their dislike for me and who I'm married to. I don't care what the topic is, I can recognize racism when I see it. I dare you to disagree with anything I say from here on out now. :)
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Anika, Rasheen - I think some here are making a reasonable case that dissent against Obama is sometimes labelled as racist. Sure, some of it is racist, but not to the extreme that Carter professes. All IMHO, of course.
- Kurt Starnes
It seems he's talking about the overt and ridiculous protests against Obama featuring various racist caricatures and statements on their signs. Not people who just disagree with his policies or whatever. Someone correct me if he said different and I didn't catch it.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
If that's what he's saying, then I have no problem with his statements.
- Kurt Starnes
Wow. There's a banquet of stupid on this thread. How did I end up on Digg?
- Fleagle
If that's what he said, I'd be ok with it. He's not alone in saying what he's saying, and what he says characterizes all dissent as racially motivated.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
He is Rahsheen and it's clear that most people participating in this thread didn't bother to read beyond the headline. And then there's the fact that they love to play the victim.
- Admiral Anika
I read the article and don't consider myself a victim.
- Kurt Starnes
Who's playing the victim here? Carter and many democrats are calling people racists, a term that means by definition that they've been victims of racist acts.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Anika: I did read the article, and he makes it very clear: "I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he's African-American," Carter told "NBC Nightly News." ---- I fail to see how you could read that in any other way than the most straightforward one. While he is talking about "demonstrators" there, those are not the only people opposed to some of Obama's plans.
- Otto
I also agree with this statement of Carter: "The president is not only the head of government, he is the head of state. And no matter who he is or how much we disagree with his policies, the president should be treated with respect." This applies to all Presidents, IMO.
- Kurt Starnes
Now I'm confused. His statement is not absolute. He's not calling ALL of Obama's opponents racist. I don't even think most of you are included. What's the problem here? I don't even think "overwhelming portion of intensely demonstrated animosity" applies to any of you.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
"intensely demonstrated animosity" can refer to the passionate response to what many people see as an erosion of core American values that the democrats are trying to legislate right now, and the president is championing right now. Because I do have a guttural reaction to much of that by definition makes me a target of his statement.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
It's a broad set of terms that he put out there, like many others, as a stake in the ground so as to say "be careful how passionately you disagree with the president, because you could get the scarlet letter "R" knitted to your shirt." That's trying to intimidate me from disagreeing with the president and his policies, and I resent that.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Honestly, it isn't much different from what the Republicans did during Iraq, saying "be careful how passionately you disagree with the policies of the president, or you'll be branded 'unpatriotic.'" Except being labeled by consensus as a racist carries much more weight with activists than being unpatriotic. Witness Imus, Loren Feldman, that guy who drew the cartoon about the monkey...
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- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
It *can* refer to a passionate response, but I think his statement is more clear by including "demonstrated." Just because you openly disagree doesn't mean you're carrying around signs with the president dressed as a witch doctor. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it seems clear to me who he is talking about. A lot of people on FF disagree with Obama, but I've never thought them racist for doing so. The people I see protesting on TV, however...well, that's a different story.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
I just don't like anybody's opinion being dismissed, and I absolutely hate when people classify other people into groups and then dismiss them as a class based on that. It's entirely too easy to label people into categories and then ignore what they say based on that category, and Carter is not helping by saying this sort of thing. Many of these "racists" as he's labeled them might have genuine and valid opinions that will not get heard. That's not the right way to run a democracy.
- Otto
Interesting, you're upset about people being grouped into a class and dismissed, what about a black class? What about the differentiators are race? Is that then fair?
- anna sauce
@anna: I'm not following you. Are you suggesting that black people's opinions don't count or something? Or what? I'm saying that labeling people is a bad thing, regardless of what the label is.
- Otto
Why is it that, despite recognizing that things like this are in fact racist, some people feel more solidarity with the guy holding up the sign of Obama dressed as a witch doctor than with people who think this is pretty disrespectful and not in anyway a rational argument? Because that's what it feels like when someone points out that things like this are racist, and someone else dismisses it as playing the race card, or accusing everyone who opposes Obama as being a racist.
- Victor Ganata
Kevin - I lived through the Carter years as a married man with three kids. Believe me, things were far, far worse during those four dark years than during Bush's eight years, and Carter didn't have to deal with the worst attack on American soil in history. Bush wasn't perfect, but no other president in history has been tested with such a tragedy so early in his term, and had to send our...
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- Don Smith
I remember reading an article a while back that said when it comes to dealing with issues in America, the majority of whites rarely see race as a factor whereas people of color almost always saw the implications of things being racial. I find that compelling. EDIT: And if that is indeed the case, how the hell are we ever going to deal with this huge chasm between people (throw class in there as well), if no one wants to drop the pretense and talk about this cultural plague?
- Derrick
@Victor: Not entirely sure what you mean by "solidarity" there, but you can agree with somebody's position without agreeing with, or even liking, their tactics.
- Otto
Otto, even if the position is "I hate Obama mostly because he's black?"
- Victor Ganata
@Victor: That's not a position, that's a reason for a position. A position must be on a subject that is in contention, like the health care plan. Somebody might hate the plan because they don't like blacks, I grant you. I don't like the plan because I think it's a bad plan.
- Otto
Sorry, I guess I elided too much there. The position I'm referring to is "I dislike Obama." There are lots of reasons to hold this position, many of which are quite rational. Is it right that people who have this position endorse other people who share the same position, even if they employ detestable and irrational tactics? Is pointing out that these specific tactics are detestable and irrational necessarily "playing the race card" or tarring everyone who opposes Obama with the same brush?
- Victor Ganata
Although I guess I can see the other side of the argument: it's possible to be racist AND still have rational arguments against Obama's policies. But it's really hard to separate that out. Especially when a lot of Obama's policies are continuations of Bush's policies, and these same people weren't very vocal last year.
- Victor Ganata
@Victor - good points. I also agree that many of Obama's policies are continuations of Bush's policies and wonder why there doesn't appear to more outrage from the left - extending warrantless wiretapping and bombings by drones which kill innocents are two such issues which come to mind. I think it's just simple cognitive dissonance on both sides - humans tend to overlook the...
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- Kurt Starnes
Kurt, I think there is a lot of disappointment on the left, but you don't hear about it for probably the same reasons: some people would rather defend the guy who is closer to their own beliefs, even if they find some of the things he does or allows are actually detestable and/or irrational. And it doesn't help that the mainstream media finds the incoherent shouting on the far right much more worthy of coverage than the grumblings of the left OR the intelligent discourse of the more moderate right.
- Victor Ganata
What a dumb shit..He needs to just stay out of the front of a camera.
- tony
Stay classy!
- Derrick
tony- nice way to add to the conversation.
- anna sauce
otto- way back you were saying that democracy supports racists as well as non-racists, and what I'm saying is that racism is undemocratic- it's saying that one kind of people's opinions are not worth merit.
- anna sauce
I am shocked, simply shocked, that someone would insinuate the presence of racism in the party that has opposed every advance of civil rights in recent history.
- Patrick
Racism and the suppression of civil rights goes hand in hand, and I can't see how the suppression of civil rights could possibly be democratic in any way.
- Victor Ganata
Patrick++
- Andrew C
Patrick, FWIW, before around 1960, the history of Democrats and race is not exceptionally favorable. Again, another case where neither Party has clean hands. *Edit - I just noted you said "recent history."
- Kurt Starnes
Oh for sure. I mean, they still let Byrd be a senator. That's crazy.
- Patrick
Name a few civil rights advances that the party has opposed in recent history Patrick. Please be specific.
- Mattb4rd
@Mattb4rd: Someone might need to define what a "civil right" is before anyone can answered? Maybe I think it should be a civil right to drink and drive.
- Stephen Christian
@Stephen Life, Liberty and the P U R S U I T of happiness.
- Mattb4rd
At least in California, the Republicans have spearheaded a lot of legislation that many racial and ethnic minorities have felt were specifically targeted against them: Proposition 187, 209, 227.
- Victor Ganata
The voters decided those issues, Victor.
- Mattb4rd
It doesn't change the fact that they've had deleterious effects on minorities.
- Victor Ganata
Wrong again Jimmy Carter!!
- Rod Cadenhead
Something smells bad in the city tonight. Smells kinda like manure? @KGOradio says they've received calls in the Marina, Excelsior, Richmond & Sunset. We smelled it on Van Ness last night, Tenderloin & Nob Hill tonight. @SFWater doesn't know what it is. This feels like a Seinfield episode! SO what is it? What do you think it is and where are you?
PC Easy liked this
Foul Smelling City: @dictiondavies thinks it's @seair . @SunsetSasquatch suspects it's the yearly algae bloom that is causing the stink.
- Action News SF
@ducki_lips @ActionNewsSF smells like manure out by the park, 19th/Lincoln
- Action News SF
Jon Stewart Owns Glenn Beck on Healthcare Hypocrisy (Video) - http://www.indecisionforever.com/2009...
John B. Osborne, Steven W. Kelly, G. Sigh and 5 other people liked this
I'm always glad there's somebody digging up these examples of stupidity. Now if only the people that talk out of both sides of their asses had to reply to them publicly when pointed out...well, we'd pretty much not have time for anything else.
- jbean
Rockstar energy drink doesn't want consumers to know about connection to shock jock Michael Savage, is literally suing people who publicize this - http://www.reddit.com/r...
Jim Graham, PC Easy and Robert Scoble liked this
All I want is for Rockstar to bring back the red Rockstar Juiced: Pomegranite. That shit was amazing.
- LarchOye
Twitterrific 2.0 Makes Twitter Terrific on the iPhone - http://mashable.com/2009...
Nicholas James, Daniel Rowley, Thomas Power and 8 other people liked this
It adds features, takes away intuitiveness.
- Larry Hudson
Tweetie for Mac - http://wakoopa.com/softwar...
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tim, PC Easy, Gunny doesn't side-hug™ and MD Roz liked this
Im guessing windows does not have a version of this
- Ryan Gerritsen
That's correct. For now.
- Eric Geller
Hope we get a Win version of this or something similar. Don't like the Adobe Air apps and Digsby does not even have a Retweet option...
- Manuel Mas
The developer doesn't plan to release a Windows version of this. Ever heard of Blu? http://www.thirteen23.com/experie... It's made just for Vista and 7. Not sure about features. It's still a work in progress, but it sure is beautiful. :)
- Dennis Jackson
I like Nambu. Simple single column with support for groups.
- Joel Zehring
Dennis: Good recommendation. Any other viable Win Twitter clients worthy of a try?
- Manuel Mas
I'd consider using this if Twhirl wasn' t so good and if Tweetie supported Identi.ca, the TWiT army & FriendFeed like Twhirl does.
- Thunderwing
from twhirl
I want for windows.
- ralphsaunders
My Way News - Yahoo to close GeoCities, other services in revamp - http://apnews.myway.com/article...
Michael Holzinger, PC Easy and Rui Pereira liked this
Yahoo Inc. (YHOO) (YHOO) said Thursday it plans to close GeoCities, a Web site publishing and hosting service it bought in May 1999 at the height of the dot-com boom for around $3 billion in stock. The service will be shut down later this year. Visitors to the site now see a message that says new GeoCities accounts will not be available and gives them the option to sign up for Yahoo's Web hosting service for $5.98 a month.
- Leo Laporte
Daniel Rowley, Ho John Lee, Darren Heydon and 26 other people liked this
What was the question??
- rob friedman
rob - I'm going to guess that it had something to do with: What do you do about people who impersonate other people on Twitter, fake accounts, etc.
- Mike Doeff
http://valleywag.gawker.com/5216917... has the video.
- Robert Scoble
Twitter can't shut down impostors of mine, like @scobelizer so how is he going to keep down impostors of Oprah's?
- Robert Scoble
For instance, is http://twitter.com/theoprah real? We all know it's not, but there's no way for Twitter to get rid of the impostors.
- Robert Scoble
So we should be expecting some kind of authentication system soon to verify Identity? Sir, please show me your twitter license.
- rob friedman
I like how he said "our people will talk to your people..."
- jyamasaki
I watched the clip. Anyone else find it a little odd/creepy how Oprah grabbed Ev's hand when she asked that question? And Ev definitely hesitated when they asked how they would enforce that for the non-celeb's out there.
- Mike Doeff
We play the land rush game everytime they release new a TLD, there will be squaters and typoists and already have in place redemption systems.
- rob friedman
When Ev said "Our people know your people", I wonder if he was referring to the VIP Concierge that TechCrunch wrote about a couple weeks ago... http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Mike Doeff
He knows that oprah along with everyone else is the real oprah. Why don't they just ban the other one.
- Nicholas James
Has anyone written a paper on the generalized landrush-in-new-namespace issue? I'd think we'd have figured out how best to handle it by now, eh? It's only a serious issue in popular namespaces, but hey, you don't always know which ones will become popular - but some namespaces are free to squat on.
- Shane Curcuru
I think a better answer would have been that the community tends to self police.
- Keith - @tsudo
Shane: taking "Oprah" would force Twitter to have intervened like they did over the "Skype" Twitter user: http://uk.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Nicholas James
User ID management is going to be a problem until a common authentication and access protocol is established
- Susan Beebe
Ev said "our people know your people"? What!? That's the best possible answer you could come up with? Always pulling stuff out of your... you get the point.
- Michael Forian
@Ev sure came off like an Elitist with that statement didn't he? Pride cometh before the fall...
- Susan Beebe
The answer to Oprah's question is she needs to link to her Twitter account on her website
- Jesse Stay
you said it there Susan!
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Susan Fake Oprah can post a link on Oprah's official site?
- Jesse Stay
there is a link on the oprah.com which goes to twitter.com/oprah it's in the "Oprah's First Tweet" new box, last item "Follow Oprah on Twitter!"
- rob friedman
Are all these new "framed" shortlink toolbars ANNOYING you? http://www.lockergnome.com/web... [You're NOT alone...]
Tweetie, the popular iPhone app for Twitter, is coming to the Mac! http://www.atebits.com/tweetie... #tweetie
PC Easy and Igor Poltavskiy liked this
If you know someone from Vimeo, please "thank" them for deleting my account without asking? Kthxbai. >:P
PC Easy and Morton Fox liked this
AT&T may have more bars in more places, but I never seem to be in those locations.
Steven Perez, Fee501st, Thomas Hawk and 18 other people liked this
oh god I know. It Sucks. More like more bars in some places.
- TheHenry
They have more bars everywhere your not.
- Uncle CW™
So true I would get an iPhone, but I refuse b/c it is on AT&T's network.
- Computerwhiz1
seeing these posts, I'm realizing how lucky I am. I always have bars with my Iphone. Verizon had me in the "dead zone"
- BEX
Yes. I went iPhone only, dumping my t-mobile blackberry service, only to discover that AT&T continues to suck. How can my vintage blackberry work just fine in my office, but my new shiny iPhone sucks wind. Sigh.
- Shawn Thompson
Yep. Don't take your iPhone across the 520 bridge. It'll drop calls at both ends. You'll have no data east of Woodinville and no voice east of monroe.
- Christian Anderson
Hmm. I have the occasional drop, but my AT&T service is just fine. I'm an outlier?
- Mike Nayyar
So those of us who get great AT&T reception are liars
- Bwana ☠
I used to love att, prolly because I was one of their employee's and was brainwashed, the android g1 made me a tmobile customer and I only pay 40 a month for unlimited everything with google voice and myfaves ;)
- Kyle Weller
In the last five months gun maker Smith and Wesson's (SWHC) stock price has doubled. Gun maker Sturm Ruger (RGR) is surging as well. There were nine shootings over the weekend in Oakland.
Brian Johns, Daniel Rowley, tom barnes and 49 other people liked this
wow, that's an interesting statistic in a down economy isn't it. fear driving up gun sales, gees
- Susan Beebe
@Lindsey LOL, that's what I was wondering. It is Oakland after all.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Yes, 9 shootings in one weekend is high even for Oakland.
- Alex Scoble
A nation in fear and on the edge. That's what I take it too mean.
- Russ Jackson
I've read some right-winged hysteria about Obama taking our guns away. I bet that's a factor.
- Blake Caldwell
Knowing someone in the firearm industry, I can tell you the reason gun sales are up is because of a fear that President Obama's administration will seriously curtail second amendment rights. If gun ownership isn't restricted directly, then the fear is that taxes on ammunition will skyrocket, indirectly limiting access to guns. I don't own a gun, but I'm a second amendment supporter. The...
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- Gregory Pittman
from twhirl
9 shootings in a weekend is high for Oakland.
- Thomas Hawk
I sure do wish there was an easier way to dissuade criminals from plying their craft.
- Christopher Harley
what Gregory said - heard the same thing from some rednecks in Alabama - long story ...
- William Harryman
In addition, guns are a hard good that typically increases in value. Kinda like gold. I understand many individuals are investing in the product as well as the stocks. Win-win?
- Adam Jochum
Seeing how the stock market is doing, investing in guns and ammo could be a good thing. :)
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
They all appear to be robbery attempts where the victims were unarmed and shot anyway (details are short though). Too bad the responsible citizens aren't allowed to carry (unless you're a famous star).
- John Rubier
What Blake, Gregory, and Jason said.
- Anthony Citrano
I think people are starting to prepare for 2012 a little prematurely...
- Mike Nayyar
I own a couple of mossin-nagant 91/30s currently. I'm thinking of buying a couple more.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
makes sense, cause when the financial world collapses, I'm going to need some firepower to defend the gold bullion I've stock piled. :p (is gold still over $1k??)
- felix
i'm all for legal gun ownership. i would get one too if ny laws weren't so against law-abiding residents
- Cee Bee
Okay, I'll take the flak. Here it goes. We're okay with saying people didn't know what they were getting into with the housing market but we think these same people know enough about how to appropriately use a gun. We need to protect them from credit card abuse but think they'll have the sagacity to know when to use lethal force?
- AJ Kohn
@AJ - who said that? And what of chef's knives and blunt heavy objects?
- Anthony Citrano
@Anthony: Plenty have advocated that 'the people' weren't responsible for these decisions, whether it be housing or credit cards. Some on this very thread. I simply hope that there is a consistency in application ... and if not, tell me why we should trust 'the people' with weapons but not with money.
- AJ Kohn
I'm a pacifist, but I have no problem with law abiding citizens owning guns.
- Chrimmus Tad
Where *do* all these unregistered guns come from? The gunmakers couldn't possibly be profiting from crime, could they? It would be unthinkable!
- Victor Ganata
@Chris: +1
- Jasmin Patry
Perhaps it is not only a knee-jerk reation to a false belief of confiscation that is driving guns/ammo sales. Perhaps people are preparing for the oncoming food riots as society collapses. And Chris, a short-barrel 10 gauge shotgun is infinitely better for home protection than any handgun.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
Chris White, I don't think Thomas was asking for looser trolls to reply to his post. But I'll bite: Therein lies the problem. You don't feel you are responsible enough to possess a firearm without uncontrollable killing people. Why not just have yourself committed now? Even without the gun you may just decide to plow into a building or crown with your car, or perhaps you'll just take a baseball bat and kill an entire household over a video game.
- John Rubier
Technically Victor, unregistered guns frequently come from law abiding citizens. For instance, in SC you have to pass a background check to buy a gun from a store. However, any sales between two private parties doesn't have to be registered, which means I can buy a gun and when I decide to upgrade I sell it to you, you sell it to your cousin, who then needs cash and sells it to a drug dealer. Hence, an unregistered gun in the hands of a criminal.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
And MVB is correct: a shotgun with bird shot is going to be infinitely better for home defense than a hand gun (and is less likely to tear out your walls than buck shot).
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Same with MO (cigarettes)
- Mona Nomura
@John Rubier Spent much time on FriendFeed?
- Christopher Harley
Would you shoot someone just for being a "looser troll"?
- Victor Ganata
Apologies for jumping the gun and calling you a looser troll, Chris. It's nothing to do with caffeine, it's the amount of 2A fights that are on the horizon that have me rather sensitive to this topic.
- John Rubier
No Victor. Would you?
- John Rubier
@Anthony: Knives and blunt objects are fantastic! I fully support those because a loon can't kill too many people with them. Columbine, Virgina Tech. What would the carnage have been with knives and blunt instruments? If ease and amount of damage isn't part of the equation why can't I own chemical and nuclear weapons? Weapons don't kill people, people kill people, right? :)
- AJ Kohn
but eventually someone will realize that a sling shot would work better then a knife or blunt object. next, you'll have people attaching sharp rocks to the end of sticks and using a potential energy device to propel it through the air at great speeds. then where will we be with our knives and blunt objects?
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Gathering from the title of your post, people are buying guns to shoot other people?
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
@Chris: Awful. Hadn't heard. But ... how many more would have been dead with a 9mm Glock? It's gruesome for sure and none of it palatable but scale, in my opinion, is an issue.
- AJ Kohn
People are losing jobs no wonder
- orionstarr
@Jason: I'm not saying you can't own a gun. I'm saying that it should be a HELL of a lot tougher by a WIDE margin. I'll use another analogy - would you want everyone who comments on a YouTube clip to be packing heat?
- AJ Kohn
@Chris I ventelate boards and pieces of paper with mine. :)
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
I'm not linking causality between these two facts. Just stating them as they are both facts. Bad times do bring out violence though and Americans are especially violent. I do think there should be much harsher penalties for illegal gun possession. It's a joke the slap on the wrist criminals get for illegal gun possession today.
- Thomas Hawk
There are not very many stocks that are up at all over the past 5 months. It's pretty spectacular that Smith and Wesson could double in share price.
- Thomas Hawk
Oh sure, we're way more violent then say Mexico. Have you seen the murder rate for Mexico lately? Things are really really bad down there right now.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
i'd like to see the data-points / graph overtime of 3 factors: leniency in background checking laws, gun sales and accidental deaths.
- Megan
Things might not be so violent in Mexico if marijuana were farmed in the U.S., regulated and taxed by the U.S. government and sold here. Of course a lot of the violence in Mexico is being done with U.S. bought guns.
- Thomas Hawk
SWHC: closed at 3.40/share. 52wk high: 7.77, 52wk low: 1.53. In the past 6 months it's lost 2.16/share
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Thank you for reminding me to get to shooting...legally, of course.
- fn (fairnymph)
yeah it's been a volatile stock in the past year. $7.77 was much higher but that was at a time that the market in general was much higher back in April of last year. From the more recent lows to today 10-28-08 to 3-3-09 it's up 115.19%.
- Thomas Hawk
I prefer shooting canon's over smith and wessons.
- Thomas Hawk
Next year economists tell me they expect to see inflation as the economy comes back to life. I think the whole market is expecting that, so people are looking for inflation hedges too. Gold and guns are two of the most popular.
- Robert Scoble
It's the whole "Obama will take away my guns" fearmongering in play. SWHC and RGR are probably great short plays - either that fear comes true (and they sell less volume due to better control of sales) or it doesn't (and they sell less volume, since they've shifted demand up in time rather than creating more overall demand.)
- Tom Karlo
Jason, the corruption in Mexico has a lot to do with drugs. I think the point Thomas is trying to make is that if we legalized drugs, their markets would collapse, drying up the wealth of the narco families, and the influence that goes along with it.
- Victor Ganata
Both SWHC and RGR are still significantly below their 2007 highs.
- Morton Fox
What about the part of the US's constitution detailing that I can bury land mines to protect my private property. In fact it's a slippery slope to limit this right just to land titled to me, so any commons area I temporarily inhabit must be regulation free as to not restrict the bearing of booby trap arms I may exercise my right to brandish. If devices are left behind in public, then we really should enforce the littering laws, shouldn't we. [sadly, this is necessary: /END HYPERBOLE]
- Micah Wittman
Yep both are significantly below their highs as are most stocks. But both have surged since October of last year. Makes you wonder why people are so bullish on them from October of last year to now. It might point to the fact that people think they are going to sell a lot more guns now than they thought in October last year.
- Thomas Hawk
One analyst today noted that recently released data showed that FBI gun background checks were up 23% in Feb 09 over Feb 08.
- Thomas Hawk
More reading on this here: http://www.todaysfinancialnews.com/investm...
- Thomas Hawk
@Scobleizer: not the same economists you were listening to a few years ago, I hope. ;) @AJ: if you could wave a magic wand and take all the guns away from all the bad people, fine, then make it hard for the good guys. Until then, let's arm the good guys really well. People miss the point that criminals don't care how many rules and laws we pass; they will get guns. Finally, Thomas is right - want to put the Mexican cartels out of business? Legalize.
- Anthony Citrano
A bullet bubble? Short, short, short....
- Kevin Gamble
Gold is also up from October of last year. Guns, ammo, and gold... hmm... sounds like Mogambo Guru at work. :)
- Morton Fox
All I can say is, as a resident of Oakland, you can tell people are getting testy. Both by the way they drive (even less patience and trying to prove something), and even in the way people act in the laundromat (bitchy, selfish, inconsiderate and territorial). When the going gets tough, folks start to fight for scraps...
- Paula W
@Chris - we reached the top?
- Anthony Citrano
Most of the gun shops in the southwest and south sold out before the election and it wasn't just the fear of gun control, it was racism.There were widespread stories of Obama's socialism and that whites would lose their homes and businesses.
- Greg Guitarbuster
Has Oakland really gone back to normal after that incident where the BART police officer shot the guy in the back of the head after he was handcuffed, and from the riots afterwards?
- Victor Ganata
Ah the wonderful American obsession with guns which to this day reminds us that we are not a civilized society yet.
- Deepak Singh
What, Kyle? The supreme court further validates citizen's gun rights via 2nd amendment and people buy more guns all of a sudden?
- Alex Scoble
You know, there are certain topics that are absolutely ill-suited to the brevity imposed by social media sites like this. There's almost no way that someone can say something useful or interesting about this subject, or faith, or abortion, in the space allotted, so people end up reciting trite platitudes and meaningless statements. I'd love to have a rational discussion on this subject, but it can't happen here.
- Mistletoe Glen
Glen I share your frustration with the medium's limitations. Having said that, I do think it's possible, but most people don't bother. Reciting platitudes is easy, and it makes people think they're thinking.
- Anthony Citrano
We need context. Is nine a lot for Oakland?
- Daniel Miessler
Yes. Nine is a lot even for Oakland.
- Alex Scoble
@Thomas Re: shooting Canons. Toronto had a gun amnesty program last year where anyone who turned in a gun to the police got a free camera
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Oakland had an amnesty program as well and it was basically gun dealers profiting off of it giving back loads of guns worth less than the amnesty amount.
- Mrsth
Most amnesty programs collect relics that wouldn't even sell on ebay. Many amnesty programs also say 'if the gun was used in a crime we'll still arrest you'.
- Andrew Leyden
Interesting observation - proves entire market isn't going down and it pays to diversify. When one sector goes down a different sector goes up! Good ole stock market.
- Jo Ann Brown
I just saw another blog telling people how to get more Twitter followers. That made me throw up. More followers are not the right goal.
Pico Seno, Canada's Web Shop, Barry Deutsch and 43 other people liked this
OK sure. But how do you get more followers?
- Leo Laporte
Having more followers "looks good." But it's all about content/conversation for me...and occasional entertainment
- George Smith
What had you eaten prior to the peristaltic event?
- Mattb4rd
FAIL! soo doesn't get it!! augh! it's the conversation and the community around your blog!! Oh yeah, and content doesn't hurt either!
- Susan Beebe
+1 Mattb4rd
- Didier Lahely
"Peristaltic"? FriendFeed is educational. But a bigger concern is the follower/following ratio.
- Ontario Emperor
from fftogo
stomach upset? twitter trials? CALL JOE THE PLUMBER!
- jeneane sessum
For some people it is. People who are using Twitter as a social tool. There are many brands that use Twitter as a way to promote their product. So, I can see where something like that would be useful.
- Mathew™ one of a kind
Bah, as long as I can have a good conversation at any given time, I'm not too worried about how many followers I have.
- Casey Criswell
I agree (http://klrabbit.com/wordpre...) however the ego part of me still wants more followers
- Kim Landwehr
web 2.0 was all about the popularity contest but i think '3.0' will be all about quality versus quantity.
- Patricia
Have no idea how many followers I have, am only interested in following interesting people.
- Sally Church
Whoever dies with the most followers, wins!
- DGentry
@Patricia nice sentiment, but I think getting people to DEfocus on ego is a bit of a lost cause... just ask Maslow....
- Jeremy Toeman
I totally concur with Sally Church
- Ian May
@jeremy, to me it's the difference between being Angelina Jolie or Paris Hilton. 2.0 - Paris. 3.0, Angelina. Both are stars, but only one is quality. :)
- Patricia
not sure i see how that is relevant to twitter followers...
- Jeremy Toeman
Leo: you go on TWiT!!! That worked for me! Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
Sally: that's why I follow you!
- Robert Scoble
It's that you can gain the same outcome doing things differently. I think web 2.0 was all about how many people you can get following you regardless of the quality, how targeted, how many actually were paying attention, or real value. The next phase will be more about actually having substance to your efforts. It's like traffic - it's not the number of unique visitors, but what those...
more...
- Patricia
I'm amazed at the organic flow of followers here on friendfeed (much more so than twitter). It's something that just builds over time as you participate and seems to come in waves. I have no other avenues for finding followers, but in the last week or so I've been getting quite a few just because a few of my posts or comments drew a bit of attention. It's true that having a decent number of followers helps you have more vibrant conversations.
- Laura Norvig
but WHY is that going to happen? there's no evidence of it in any other industry... look at reality TV - an industry that's evolved for multiple decades... i *want* you to be right, but all signs I see point to this being wishful thinking...
- Jeremy Toeman
Robert, not on Twitter you don't ;)
- Sally Church
for those who use twitter as a marketing vehicle, more followers equals more potential traffic. an example would be blogs that use twitterfeed. those twitter accounts would want as many followers as possible. For the normal twitter user, i'd agree with you.
- Allen Stern
I need some followers who are into tech at least a little bit!
- Cameron
@jeremy, the idea that less is more is present in tons of industries. but, meanwhile, reality TV has been evolving for decades? I think the first reality show i saw was at the earliest eight years ago. were there others? I might have been younger and hadn't noticed. what were some that existed decades ago?
- Patricia
I can't stand twitter users who only use twitter as a self-promotion tool. To summarize... "If you’re worth reading, someone will read you. If you’re worth watching, someone will watch you. If you’re worth hearing, someone will listen." (— Jack Shedd)
- Nick Humphries
game shows? thats not really my point though - i was observing that, as a medium grows, it does not exactly trend toward "noble ambitions" (like quality vs quality). i find it hard to believe that more people on twitter == better followers per individual...
- Jeremy Toeman
@jeremy, all i can say is i work in internet biz and i hear a lot of people talking about this. it's sort of like ad networks vs targeted ads. but, if im not making a solid enough argument, ok. i don't want to debate about it :) Are game shows considered reality? i'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything - i work in TV, write about it 3x a week for TV week and i'd love to know if there were really old, old reality shows. The first reality anything i can recall is Madonna's movie Truth or Dare.
- Patricia
i'd say MTV's Real World was the first "reality show" I can really think of... but game shows in the early 80s and even 70s were fairly candid/"Real"...
- Jeremy Toeman
@jeremy! Oh yes!! Real World! Thank you!!
- Patricia
...Here in AUstralia there was teh "House From Hell"... it was done on the radio not telly but is touted as the fore-father of reality TV; bigBrother etc followed from It's concepts from what i understand and recall....House Froim Hell got HAMMERED in ther media at the time because there were liability issues....hunting article/citation
- Mr.Tiggr
@Jeremy :: House From Hell aired in Australia in October 1998; so Reality TV has at least been in existence for a decade now :D
- Mr.Tiggr
@Jeremy Citation: http://users.bigpond.net.au/info-tv...
- Mr.Tiggr
The only reason twitter works people like you and @leolaporte is because people respond. For that, you need engaged followers.
- Byron Servies
The race after who's having bigger...come on, want more followers? prove yourself. participate in the conversation, help people, response to replies, share quality posts that interesting your friends and you will see results in few months. there is only shortcut i know about. on windows.
- Avi Joseph
boo on the numbers game!
- anna sauce
I have given up on the numbers game. The one thing I would like is to be able to throw out a question and have lots of people answer it. Maybe we could create a tag #question and have people tag their messages with it to get them answered.
- Sweyn Venderbush
from twhirl
Twitter is begging for some user code of conduct. Might be key to its credibility and future.
- William Mougayar
Having more followers is like a hot summer's day when you're hungover, perfect in theory, unbearable in reality. The fewer people are following the more intimate the connection :-)
- Richard A.
I wrote a Social Media Deontology recently to that effect William.
- Richard A.
but dear Robert you have so many followers and you the envy of many, we teach by not what we say but what we do... what is the right goal?
- Adam Gersbach
from twhirl
Followers in no way, shape or form means engaged people though. Count how many people react to what you say, how often you get ten to twenty conversing. Ever tried conversing with more? Gets challenging to keep track.
- Richard A.
Rather than getting more followers, I try to get more people to talk to me. I learn a lot too.
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
Just like how one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist - one person's social media "consultant" is another person's spammer.
- Jeff Sandquist
audio of the chase here: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc... (rumor: the van is full of puppies...just a rumor)
PC Easy liked this
nice work, kevin.
- Jason Salas
from IM
She got face planted into the ground by a huge CHP officer. And the fricking U-Haul was empty! No puppies, no space aliens. No big stash of anything. Bummer.
- Andrew Leyden
1981 primitive Internet report on KRON - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Daniel Rowley, dewtheone, Noe Ruiz and 4 other people liked this
Nice, eh? :)
- l0ckergn0me
I love the closing comments by the reporter...2hour download time!!!
- Brian Appleby
i am seeing no uptake on Friendfeed requests since adding the Twitter friend import tool.. does that mean no one is using friendfeed ? yes
bcultral, Niall Connellan, Michael Forian and 11 other people liked this
people definitely are using friendfeed - I live on it personally
- Dave Hodson
Give me a break John. I am seeing hundreds of new people everyday here.
- Robert Scoble
Perhaps it means no one uses Twitter that isn't already on FF. Or perhaps just that people don't want to follow you. Or they're all at inauguration day parties and can't be bothered right now.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
i found like 100 hundred twitter friends that's now on friendfeed!
- Anthony Farrior
Most likely the "people" your inviting from twitter, are not actually people at all ;)
- James Ketchell
i found everyone but i'm not getting any notifications on the other side unlike what i'm seeing on twitter; i don't like how friendfeed doesn't match my offline user experience (alerts .etc)
- John Furrier
I have never seen invite features like this work too well. However I do always end up with the same basic friends on every service. But people are totally using Friend Feed. It is fast becoming my favorite social site.
- MarkCarras
Tina: maybe my friends aren't on friendfeed or they aren't sending emails notification to me.. Dave: i know you live on it as does Robert. I love friendfeed but have been finding twitter giving more utility..maybe this will move me over ..we'll see
- John Furrier
Tina: why wouldn't people want to follow my wisdom in tech.. :-)
- John Furrier
Twitter is different, noisier, etc but to say no one is here is idiotic. Heck since Arrington performed his intervention more than 2,000 have followed me.
- Robert Scoble
John, it's the same reason some people don't follow the LOLCat posters or my random and inane feed: humans are wonderfully complex and don't all have the same taste. Oh, and pleased to meet you =) And while I'm thinking of it, check to make sure you haven't turned off email notices in your settings.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Robert: I guess that I'm an idiot you genius you
- John Furrier
tina: i've got email enabled
- John Furrier
traffic data from compete on friendfeed and twitter: twitter is mainstream friendfeed is trying to cross the chasm http://siteanalytics.compete.com/twitter...
- John Furrier
You are not an idiotwhich is why when you write bullshit it is so maddening.
- Robert Scoble
John: more bullshit. Now compare first year's growth. Friendfeed is growing faster than Twitter did. If that really mattered, though, we would all be on Facebook. Facebook grows a new Twitter every 10 days!
- Robert Scoble
friendfeed is good for conversations threadsl iike this but they don't alert users when someone comments; the lag kills conversations that is unless your on friendfeed all the time; fact: haven't got one request since i pinged all my twitter friends (hundreds) data tell me something
- John Furrier
I'll say this - out of my tens of thousands of GMail contacts and almost four thousand twitter folks, i only found 100 new folks.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
John: funny. You are right but why are there so many conversations that happen here then? Hint: we don't need notifications.
- Robert Scoble
Actually, you can use FF Gtalk integration and be notified when anyone comments on one of your items (and you can respond from Gtalk, so no need to visit the site). It's instant feedback. And regarding Twitter: with so much political going through today, there's a chance that a single tweet gets lost in the mix. Out of curiosity, what's your follower ratio Twitter to FriendFeed?
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Mark: i found my twitter friends but no one is answering back..how many of those have subscribed to you on friendfeed? I have zero of my hundred and change twitter friends.. oh yeah in the past hour got 15 more twitter friends
- John Furrier
nothing's wrong with a little self-assurance, but trust me you are getting followed b/c I'm getting followed o_O
- Anthony Farrior
Tim Oreilly nailed why that is true: Twitter is about pushing messages out NOT in being two-way.
- Robert Scoble
Not everyone creates feeds
- paul mooney
two way maybe in principle but it doesn't work for my lifestyle where I have to stare at a screen all day.. i told the friendfeed people they need alerts to tell me otherwise my conversation attention goes to my blog Furrier.org and/or facebook..why isn't the uptake there on friendfeed per the stats above?..i think it's because users like me don't like the hassles in User experience
- John Furrier
I just used it
- Justin Yost
I agree. We need track. Been asking for that for 10 months now.
- Robert Scoble
I just found 887 Of my Twitter followers I wasn't subscribed to here, waiting to see how many add me back. I'll give it a couple of days I guess. Not everyone uses these things all the time.
- jjprojects
I'm waiting a day or two before drawing any conclusions.
- Ontario Emperor
from fftogo
No one likes FF because they believe it's too complicated to deal with. Twitter is the simple mans game.
- Michael Forian
That's other issue, you've made friends with them but the notification email might take days to trickle in if your contacts aren't super tech savvy...
- Anthony Farrior
ok just got Daniel C to friend me here... but i need a way for my friendfeeders to ping me when i'm on another platfrom
- John Furrier
http://bit.ly/PAKc : [web2 dynamics analysis "Inauguration Day"] incl. updates from tws, tw-tv, ff-s, tw-tv etc... and own krunchd.com/inauguration
- ewing2001akaNicomedy2010
"so many conversations" - it's another message board, is all. a bigger message board. full of LOLcats and stroking a select few's egos.
- Terry O'Fee
At dinner tonight I was talking with ex-Yahooligan and very bummed to hear all the news about layoffs. Sad times.
Mistletoe Glen, Roberto Bonini, Nation Hahn and 15 other people liked this
Very sad
- Shevonne
Seems like their severance package is not bad though
- Shevonne
Always sad to hear this. :(
- Daynah
I was laid off from Yahoo! today. The package I got: Paid as a Yahoo employee until Feb 13th. After that they'll cut me a check for 2 months salary. For those that have been with Yahoo for over 5 years (not me) they will cut the check for 3 months instead of 2.
- Joe Perrin
@Joe - You should start your own company
- Shevonne
Better than the bankers are making out this xmas...
- Bob Sonin
I feel sorry for those that work at the banks, but not for the banks themselves, if that makes sense.
- Ian May
we have all seen this coming for quite some time, and i don't mean just the r-d - it's too bad we have to touch the wall with our noses to see/feel the dead end - bankers are just schmoes like us, a few make out like bandits and the rest hang - it's the way the money works.
- ernie yacub
that sounds cold and heartless and i don't mean it to be, i do feel badly for people who are losing their livelihoods and their homes but feeling sorry for them doesn't help them or me - doing something about it does.
- ernie yacub
Robert - FYI - our very own Edythe on FF was laid off from Yahoo yesterday ... see http://friendfeed.com/e... Perhaps you have recommendations for her in terms of getting back on her feet with a new opportunity
- Susan Beebe
The term "Yahooligan" might not be appropriate. Hooligan is a term in Britain for young adults that commit crimes such as damage of public property and violent conduct towards others. Still, I read about the 1.5k staff they're laying off. Hope those that are affected bounce back quickly!
- alphaxion
Scoble - time to revisit your thoughts on the MSFT buyout?
- Dave Hodson
Dave: I have been consistent in saying Yahoo was idiotic to turn down the MSFT deal.
- Robert Scoble
Totally agree.
- Linus
Karim: Microsoft was stupid for trying to buy Yahoo but Yahoo is 10x stupider for turning down the deal.
- Robert Scoble
I believe the term is more stupid as I often tell my children. :)
- Michael Wishnick
Yahoo has really shot themselves in the foot by not accepting M$ offer... hindsight is 20/20
- Susan Beebe
I wonder, with all the overlap between yahoo and microsoft, wether any yahoo jobs could be saved by any deal.
- Roberto Bonini
well, Robert, in fairness, you seemed to be stepping back and saying *the market* (not you, personally) had declared Yahoo! a winner for turning down Microsoft, but some of your comments around that time did have a kind of, "haha! Yahoo wins! Suck it Microsoft!" sort of feel to them :-)
- Karim
hmm, hopefully these guys will move out of yahoo and do some cool work with other internet startups. Spread the yahoo tech / love :)
- Dipankar Sarkar
it was encouraging to see a few job offers for former Yahoo employees on Twitter last night.
- Karim
here's the FF stream http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Dave Hodson
My wife just asked me how many pounds are in a stone. Google knew the answer. Damn, I love Google. - http://www.google.com/search...
Simon, Kol Tregaskes, Anne Bouey and 27 other people liked this
Google is all-knowing.
- Andrew Trinh
I guess i'll run to google to find out... where is "stone" a measurement? Guessing England?
- David Bisset (sn)
Sweet Lord - Google is a genius that ways. It knws everything since its WE-DRIVEN :-)
- Sampad Swain
David: I included a link here, so you can just click the link to see.
- Robert Scoble
Yep, it comes from England
- Melanie Reed
Robert: Yep, just realized. Wikipedia filled me in on the rest. Learned something new: "Although the 1985 Weights and Measures Act[3] expressly prohibited the use of the stone as a unit of measure for purposes of trade (other than as a supplementary unit), the stone remains widely used within the British Isles as a means of expressing human body weight."
- David Bisset (sn)
All hail the Google.
- Helen Sventitsky
Heh.. I didn't even know "stone" was a measurement.. Well Robert, I learned something new today because of a question your wife asked. =) Also David, it's used in the British Isles. Googled it.
- deepikaur
deepikaur: I didn't know that either.
- Robert Scoble
I love it. We in the US are ignorant to all these measurements and such. I would be totally lost outside the US without Google.
- David Bisset (sn)
The UK is kinda half-assed metric. You buy pints in a pub, but half litres in a supermarket; same goes for milk. You can go to jail for selling a pound of apples though. Britain is really controlled by Brussels, and Brown & Co are just their muppets.
- Ian May
Google knows all.
- David Fendley
This made me realize I watch too much You Are What You Eat on BBC America, because thinking of weight in terms of "stone" has become second nature to me. Damnit, BBC America, update your programming whydoncha.
- Penguin It's Cold Outside
One thing I wish google had is a date calculator, like "dec 15 + 90 days"
- Chris Lamprecht
Bohemian Penguin - a good percentage of what is on BBC America wasn't actually ever broadcast on the BBC in the UK....
- Ian May
I knew that too. Do you love me?
- mattpovey
Quick...how many Fathoms in a Parsec? http://www.google.com/search... Yup, Google knows that too :)
- Andrew Smith
matt: I might love you if you were always on and answered my questions in microseconds. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Somehow I knew that a stone was 14 pounds. Ask Google something hard like [speed of light in furlongs per fortnight] or [the number of horns on a unicorn times pi]. :)
- Matt Cutts
I love how Matt Cutts shows up when we talk about Google. :-)
- Robert Scoble
I thought it was 18. Who knew.
- B. Hatin
I love stones, it makes me feel smaller :-) but have not yet figured out the weird phenomenon known as 'cups'... what's wrong with pounds and ounces? UK cookery books are useless in America.
- Sally Church
And I wish everything was in grams and kilos :)
- Deepak Singh
Just ask friendfeed!
- Prolific Programmer
My wife just said i should weigh myself in boulders. Ouch (she loves a good joke).
- David Bisset (sn)
UK people of my generation are often comfortable with both systems, since they learned imperial/british from their parents and metric/SI at school. Australia is more "metric-ised" than the UK (road signs, shopping) though confusingly, many people give their weight in kilos, but their height in feet. And then there's beer measures - schooners, middies, pots etc :)
- Neil Saunders
@Sally cup:volume::pound:weight It's supposed to be a way to get the volumetric equivalent of 8 ounces for those without access to a kitchen scale. Which also why you need two types of cups (liquid & dry).
- Lynn Garris
Lynn, yes different cups for liquid and dry and guess who balls it up every time :(. Scales are so much more uncomplicated and easier.
- Sally Church
I love how the Firefox Google search field will auto-suggest the answer to conversion. Start typing "32f in c"
- Andrew Smith
I remember when I worked for MSFT and worked wtih Bill on the 'new world of work' strategy.... one of the main topics was search, his main story of "what would make MSFT Search better than Google" was the fact that Microsoft's search would give answers and not just links.... I guess MSFT didn't really know how to get that done while Google did.
- Oudi Antebi
No one asked Robert the obvious question... Why did your lovely wife ask this question?
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
Can we please fawn over Google for something they do that other SEs don't do?
- Sam Pullara
Sorry guys but it's offical, there's no money in being an internet celebrity. That means you too @ijustine http://valleywag.com/5101412...
PC Easy liked this
After the @ireportnews and @eastcoastvegas suspension people are now saying that twitter provides 'Bad News' http://valleywag.com/5100853...
PC Easy liked this
A SUPERB blog entry on the Marriott weblog about Cal Prop 8, the Bible and business: http://www.blogs.marriott.com/default...
PC Easy and Robert Scoble liked this
Cdigs askes @ireportnews (eastcoastvegas) to leave him alone http://tinyurl.com/4wsqdc
PC Easy liked this
New YouTube Contest Challenges Users To Create A Good Video - http://laughingsquid.com/new-you...
PC Easy, Zach Underwood, Robert Scoble and Brent Logan liked this
Wish i was in LA for this very important Prop 8 protest: http://www.causecast.org/events...
Marco Ho, Mark Schulz, Dana Franks and 5 other people liked this
ok its back now
- elvirs
People don't realize the legal ramifications of not having legal protection like this. Securing the 'sanctity of marriage' between a man and woman IN A CHURCH is fine with me. But those outside the Church should be treated just like any other citizen with the same freedoms we have.
- Douglas Karr
from twhirl
Then the State should not call legal unions that it sanctions marriage. It should be some other legal mechanism, and marriages should be left to churches. http://friendfeed.com/e...
- ComicList
BS. Marriage is not a religious institution - it predates organized religion by at least many tousands of years. Besides, they aren't looking for churches to redefine their definition of marriage. Churches are still free to be as intolerant and bigoted as they always have been. They are looking for the same legal rights in the eyes of the law as hetero people enjoy. Anything less is discrimination. Period.
- Maverick
++ Maverick
- Derrick
@Maverick, calling all churches bigoted and intollerant is also intollerance and bigoted. A lot of religious people have no issue with gay marriage. Tollerance isn't an argument you can stand on if you're also intollerant, and a generalized, assumptious statement like yours to me is just that. It's not a sword you can use but then not also practice.
- Patricia
Have any of you actually read what that protest is advocating? A militant and thereby violent protest will significantly harm your cause. It will turn people who support you against you and set back your cause by decades. Once you go down that road, there's no turning back.
- Chris Mayer
@Chris, I agree. I'm not a fan of the approach either. I voted NO on 8, but for me violence, hate, is not the answer to anything.
- Patricia
@Patricia I didn't call churches intolerant and bigoted, I said they are free to act that way if they want too. By not allowing same-sex marriage, they are demonstrating that they are exactly that but it's really not relavent to the conversation anyway as what they gay and lesbian community is looking for is LEGAL recognition of their union, not religious recognition.
- Maverick
@Maverick, you said: Churches are still free to be as intolerant and bigoted as they always have been. That's very generalized. I'm Christian. Should I not vote for gay marriage next time, or disown my gay, married relative? Not all people of the church are against gay marriage, bigoted or intollerant and neither are all churches.
- Patricia
I think that my point was very clear that it is not a religious issue, it's a legal issue. Clearly I wasn't referencing churches that are allowing same-sex marriages, but yes the others are intolerant. I don't see any problem with stating the obvious.
- Maverick
@maverick, a generalized comment references everything. Nothing in your statement said anything about specific churches, and that's the damaging thing. I could state the obvious about a lot of things and be angry, but the truth is, that doesn't seem to be very effective in truly changing anything.
- Patricia
Maverick, then turn that legal union into a purely legal union, and stop calling it marriage. Marriage was created by God, who predates organized religion by eternity. There's nothing bigoted or intollerant about believing the Word of God, but I can understand how that belief might seem odd to you.
- ComicList
Charles: Marriage was not "created" by God. Marriage was created by two individuals who wanted to unite in a deep and meaningful relationship built on the love they shared for each other. Whether that was Adam and Eve, or Joe the Man and Stacy the Woman, is irrelevant. But I don't think God created the concept of marriage.
- Eric Geller
Churches that supported this amendment lost track of their purpose. Christians should never seek to be exclusionary, yet that's exactly what they celebrated. To be fair, it wasn't just the LDS contingent. Many evangelicals, particularly Baptists were as vocal and incendiary.
- Karoli
Churches shouldn't seek to be exclusionary? Christian churches should always reach out to sinners, but should never condone or accept sin.
- ComicList
Maybe we can get an answer on this thread Charles: what about 3 or 4 people in a committed relationship? Does that count? Or is the arbitrary number 2?
- Craig Eddy
So how does funding, advocacy and celebrating Prop 8 square with reaching out? It accomplishes exactly the opposite.
- Karoli
There's positively no reason a church should support actions it deems to be a sin, nor should it be surprising that one would support a law that suppresses actions it deems to be a sin. Just because one opposes the act doesn't mean one hates the actor.
- Craig Eddy
Wall between church and state goes both ways. Just as state cannot dictate to churches, neither should churches dictate to state, nor advocate for discriminatory legislation that fits their theological outlook.
- Karoli
Karoli: the First Amendment says no such thing. It's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. And I believe it was the citizens of California that voted, not the churches.
- Craig Eddy
Craig, in the "family llc" that I have proposed, I have said several times it would be any number of people of any gender. I haven't worked out how children would fit into all this, however.
- ComicList
Charles: right, and I agree with that on the grounds that the number (2) is just as "arbitrary" as saying that the gender mix (man/woman) is arbitrary. But I don't think I've had an opponent of Prop 8 answer my query as to "how many".
- Craig Eddy
Karoli, I agree churches should spend money on tasks other than state propositions, but not because it isn't "reaching out."
- ComicList
@CharlesLePage That's not outreach. It's faceslapping. Using public laws and the airwaves to condemn an entire group of people is in no way outreach. Well, maybe outreach for sinning masochists.
- Karoli
By the way, how does freedom of religion translate to interference in state law?
- Karoli
Ummm, how does one say a church shouldn't advocate for its beliefs? Because if it can't, what good is it? And if you write laws to neuter that, rendering the church impotent, then haven't you enforced de-facto freedom FROM religion?
- Craig Eddy
By advocacy, I am specifically referring to authorship, sponsorship and expenditure of tax-exempt dollars to pass laws which are probably unconstitutional.
- Karoli
Politics and church should not mingle. Church and "being slightly off norm" are not compatible but church is joined by choice. Constitution safeguards the norm and the "slightly off norm" because choice of birthplace is not involved. Hence church and Constitution can not interact. In this case they did. The whole train of state came to a grinding halt. Looking in from the (distant) outside I'd say the US has made a dangerous step regardless of the issue at hand.
- Henk de Kruyff
What makes a "church" any different from, say, a labor union?
- Craig Eddy
@CraigEddy constitutional protection. simple as that.
- Karoli
Karoli, do we have evidence that tax exempt dollars were used to pass a law?
- ComicList
This is another reason the State should not define churches and churches should not have tax exempt dollars.
- ComicList
I hope those who ban gay marriage will one day know what its like to lose some rights of their own. How 'bout we choose THEIR fate?
dave mcclure, Randall Haney, Kol Tregaskes and 25 other people liked this
Solution is simple. Don't get married. :)
- Mona Nomura
Solution is even more simple. Don't choose to be gay. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Akiva Moskovitz
I could no more choose to be gay than I could choose to have an Italian heritage.
- l0ckergn0me
C'mere l0ckergn0me. I'll remove your Italian genes with this pair of tweezers.
- Rochelle
Are emoticons and exclamation marks disclaimers? Or do I just need a sense of humor...?
- Mona Nomura
Ya just like my Dad choosing to be forced to leave my town because he's Japanese-American. Not funny.
- Rodfather
I really do want to know why some people foster such hate for something that is none of their business. I know many will point to the bible, but where does it say "hate the shit out of them and treat them as non-humans"? I've not read those words anywhere in that book!
- alphaxion
Lighten up, people; I'm snarking against the people who think that homosexuality is a choice.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Hey Rodfather - at least they were forced to leave, my ancestors were just blown up. YAY!
- Mona Nomura
I knew it, Akiva.
- Derrick
Me too.. my family originated from Hiroshima too..
- Rodfather
If it doesn't directly involve your PENIS or VAGINA, shut the FUCK UP.
- l0ckergn0me
Mona, I think the "LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" kind of gives away the fact that it was a joke.
- Rochelle
I knew Akiva was kidding, Rochelle! It's just that I've seen TOO many people get offended or take things the wrong way. ;)
- Mona Nomura
Alphaxion - Not that I agree, but I think a lot of the people who use the Bible as the justification for their hatred of homosexuality point to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, wherein God wiped out two entire cities over his disgust at their lack of morals (and explicitly sexual "deviations" including homosexuality).
- Fa La La La Lindsay
True, Mona. Luckily, that isn't happening in this thread!
- Akiva Moskovitz
I want to read more about Chris Pirillo's vagina. :)
- Mattb4rd
Mattb4rd, stay out of my vagina. Even Ponzi isn't privy to my vagina.
- l0ckergn0me
LMAO. Ok :(
- Mattb4rd
Lindsay... I love when people use this story cause it essentially says it's ok to send out your two virgin teenage daughters to get raped :(
- Johnny Worthington
lol Chris
- TheHenry
If it's fine for a straight person to do something, why isn't it fine for a gay person to do the same thing? That's like saying white people can't get married, but it's okay for black people to get married. And those of Asian decent can only get married to other Asians. WTF? No. It's wrong, pure and simple.
- l0ckergn0me
@Lindsay The same people seem to manage to ignore the "Though shalt not kill" bit. Too many people pick and choose their morals from whatever religion they belong to to suit their own morals. I'm off to make an image of what is in the heavens above. ;)
- Chris Nixon
It's called discrimination, l0ckergn0me. I just got into a little pow-wow in a thread of my own today: http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Derrick
It's all to do with religion: IMO the religious infighting going on in the western world needs to stop. people should have a right to be as they are rather than as someone else's religion says they should be.
- Sharron Field
from twhirl
the thing is tho, yeah there was the story of those two places, but where does it say "hate them and take away their rights to be equal citizens"? The hate is coming from somewhere else. They also totally ignore the new testament that tries to tell people to love each other regardless of who or what they are. There is something else powering their bigotry and they use bullshit like religion to mask it.
- alphaxion
Personally, I don't know why the religious fanatics don't just sit back and wait for the fire and brimstone to start flying again. Don't they think He can still bring it?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
I've read about those who want to let them do something that is effectively identical but give it another name - civil partnership. The best analogy that I have heard was from Madge Weinestine. "That's like saying only whites get to be called president, so Obama will have to be called chancellor". If it were race there would be no excuses.. but have the gall to love someone of the same gender and it's perfectly fine?
- alphaxion
You know what sucks? Growing up, I never thought marriage would be an option for me. I'd be a confirmed bachelor and have a cat and houseplants. Having the right to marry be right there, and then snatched away...if it happened to you, you'd be outraged. Strip away, politics, religion, Biblical verse, etc. Being a "have-not" sucks, and its wrong.
- Derrick
+ alphaxion
- Derrick
Can't believe they actually did that. Ridiculous.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
It's not just ridiculous, Rahsheen - it's immoral to have banned gay marriage.
- l0ckergn0me
The platform they campaigned on was "protect marriage". My claim is if one is so concerned about protecting the sanctity of marriage, then the obvious thing to do is ban divorce. http://www.kpao.org/blog...
- Dave C
HE SAID "NUCLEAR". First time a president's done that it in eight years. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world...
Chris Rogers, Jon Gosier, Kenton and 12 other people liked this
It's so nice to have someone who can pronounce words properly in front of us.
- Robert Scoble
Finally no more stupid grins, fake laughs, stupid replies to make media laugh
- imran
And all my lib friends are "praying for a quick reconciliation between Obama and McCain supporters. We are one America, let's all act like it." But I guess they don't really mean it when applied to the past. (the quote was from a friend's Facebook status)
- Craig Eddy
Now that we're a "communist country" @rocmanusa and me are going to China to study real communism and see what we can learn. :-)
Jeff P. Henderson, MedicalQuack, Yu-Shan and 15 other people liked this
In communist America, communism studies you!
- Will Higgins™
Yea, right. China is a communist country the same way the Republican party is the party of small business standing up against Wall Street and the investment bankers and against "socialism".
- Paul Denlinger
Have a safe trip Scoble!
- Les Zaldor
That is a great idea.. Next thing you know everyone is going to want free haircuts just like they do in China
- EminiAddict
Hilarious. You will learn aplenty in Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, but precious little about communism. Have a great trip; sorry I will miss you in SH.
- sage brennan
haha. Good luck on your trip.
- David Cook
By the way, one thing I recommend for any visitor to China is visit a bookstore if possible (even the ones in airports). You'll be shocked at all the business management / capitalism books you'll find (and one tiny shelf of Communist stuff).
- Andrew Leyden
Indeed
- Justin Yost
Welcome! see you in Shanghai :)
- K.D.
Don't drink the milk! Have a good trip.
- MedicalQuack
If you find some real Communism, it'll be pretty surprising
- Mitch Ratcliffe
from twhirl
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