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Peter Kim › Likes
Voted top analyst of the year: @rwang0 http://iiar.wordpress.com/2008...
Peter Kim, Aaman (Clone of FF), Hutch Carpenter and Robert Scoble liked this
There's one thing NO ONE is talking about in terms of #twittergate (the role of the SUL in pressure on @techcrunch). Will discuss here:
Joe Dawson, thinkQuick, Gordon Saunders and 33 other people liked this
TechCrunch is on Twitter's Suggested User List. They have been gifted about 880,000 followers by being on that list, AKA "SUL". That's worth a lot of money.
- Robert Scoble
SUL?
- iconic88
SUL? Sulfuric acid?
- Richard
So what are you saying? That they shouldn't leak the docs because they got a lot of followers from Twitter?
- Dare Obasanjo
That they leaked the docs to become more popular on twitter?
- Tyler Hurst
the point most people are missing is that TechCrunch states they have spoken with Twitter. I am sure Twitter execs know what's coming and are prepared
- Kevin
brave new world...
- Bill Kinney
Wouldn't you think the <800k SUL-generated followers would have made @arrington LESS likely to publish the docs?
- Tom Guarriello
Dare: I bet that Twitter is threatening Mike with getting kicked off.
- Robert Scoble
Here is a link to a post of a dozen screenshots of Twitters admin panels http://www.nowhereelse.fr/admin-t... "There are 187 featured SUL Uusers"
- Mark
Tom: it's gotta be one consideration Mike is considering.
- Robert Scoble
Techcrunch did mention in one of their posts that Twitter is generating a lot of traffic for them. So the SUL does work for them. And it works for twitter as they stop TC from posting the documents
- Sidharth Dassani
Sure, Robert. But he's pushed it this far despite the SUL factor.
- Tom Guarriello
SUL = Suggested User List
- Manuel Arroyo
I bet that twitter prefers this to leak on techcrunch where Mike can spin some stories for them than to see the zip file with the docs appearing on a torrent site !
- Eschnou
wikileaks maybe?
- Mark
So twitter kicks arrington off. does he publish the docs? does that help him?
- Tyler Hurst
If Twitter kicks him off get ready for a big time firestorm! (Just mistyped: "firestory"!)
- Tom Guarriello
Tom: Mike is a journalist. He also says that someone else will publish them, so might as well tell everyone that these things are knocking around in public.
- Robert Scoble
Even without the suggested users list, TechCrunch must be weighing the cost of enmity with the most popular startup in the Valley right now. Don't they write like 3 Twitter stories a day? What happens if Twitter stops talking to them and takes all their press communications to Mashable (who are already beginning to kick TechCrunch's butt with their social media savviness?
- Dare Obasanjo
Robert - Arrington is NOT a journalist. Journalists check sources. Process journalism is NOT real journalism. He's a writer.
- Tyler Hurst
How did Arrington not check his sources? He confirmed they are real docs
- Kevin
Yes, read all his rationale. Seems sincere in trying to separate juiciest from items he considers newsworthy. BTW, I do believe he is a journalist.
- Tom Guarriello
Which would they kick? Him with ~8K followers? Not TC with ~1million followers.
- Mike Shea
Kevin - not just this article. did you see his article on how the free google apps was gone when it was just a page layout change?
- Tyler Hurst
Tyler: I've been in the hotel room watching as Arrington checked his sources on a story. You're wrong on that one.
- Robert Scoble
Mike: almost all of TechCrunch's followers were gifted to him by TechCrunch (same with Mashable, by the way). Before the Suggested Users List came along both had fewer followers than me, Leo Laporte, and a couple of others. Being on the SUL is worth lots of money (I believe it's worth millions, if you stay on it for a few years).
- Robert Scoble
Tom - these are stolen documents. What does his rationale matter at this point?
- Tyler Hurst
Dare: yes, I'm sure Mike is considering all the consequences. Also, if these documents really do exist someone will publish them. When I quit Microsoft I told 15 people and I didn't even know the guy who leaked my story.
- Robert Scoble
For the record, so far, I have not been given the Twitter documents.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble - so why doesn't Twitter just publish them? Get ahead of any new site?
- Tyler Hurst
Tyler: journalists have printed stolen stuff that's newsworthy in the past.
- Robert Scoble
Tyler: I don't know, but I bet that Twitter does not want these released.
- Robert Scoble
Tyler - So were the Pentagon Papers.
- Tom Guarriello
Tyler: I wonder, if I did have them, and I talked with @ev, would he offer to put me on the SUL in return for not publishing the documents?
- Robert Scoble
Scoble - are they newsworthy because they're stolen or newsworthy because they're juicy? What good does this do?
- Tyler Hurst
Scoble - now that's a damn good question about SUL.
- Tyler Hurst
No journalist should have accepted to be on the SUL and at least at this moment ask that they be taken off.
- Stephen Pickering
Dare, to answer your original question, the SUL is a gift worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe even millions. Jason Calacanis has already set the price at $250,000. So, the SUL is, in effect, a bribe that can be used to keep journalists/bloggers/twitterers in line. If you had a gift in your hand worth hundreds of thousands of dollars you would think twice before turning that gift away. I know I would.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I'd say no to that, @ev knows that those docs are out there now anyway. If you were the only with them (hypothetically speaking), then he might have. But he'd probably equate it to extortion. Would you really want that?
- Mike Shea
I think twitter could just delete the techcrunch account if it wants to make a point. SUL removal wouldn't do much as they already have a lot of followers from it.
- Darren Stuart
Stephen: that is a very difficult ethical position to arrive at, especially if your competitors are also on the SUL (Mashable is on the SUL right now).
- Robert Scoble
Darren: wrong. If you remove yourself from the SUL you immediately start losing followers and start falling behind your competitors.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble - so you're saying that blackmail is okay as long as it benefits you?
- Tyler Hurst
Darren: in the race for advertising and PR and all that being at the top of the follower list gets you all sorts of goodies. http://www.wefollow.com for instance displays people in order of the number of the followers.
- Robert Scoble
How did the valuation for getting on the SUL end up being done? Is there a dollar value per follower based on link click throughs + ad clickthroughs?
- Dare Obasanjo
No one in the TC office yet, according to CrunchCam. Probably all sleeping. Boy today is going to be a busy day for them.
- Mark
Tyler: no. I'm not saying that. I'm hoping that if I am in any of these positions that I would take the high road. But living on the high road is very difficult.
- Robert Scoble
Dare: I used to help run a magazine with 100,000 subscribers that made millions in revenue every year.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble - That's the answer I'd expect from you. Journalists ALWAYS take the high road.
- Tyler Hurst
Dare: you could use a CPM (advertising fee per 1000 viewers) of $5 and come up with some sort of valuation.
- Robert Scoble
You can't objectively report on a company who is paying you directly and for that matter its impossible to also be a journalist and the owner of the news organization. In the past there's always suppossed to have been a firewall between content and the business side. But that's out the window. Notice all the puff pieces about bing on the NYtimes. Hmmmm, I wonder if that could be all the advertising dollars? Hmmmmmm
- Stephen Pickering
Tyler: journalists don't always take the high road. There are several New York Times journalists on the SUL if I remember right.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble - I wouldn't say the NYT is a leader in journalistic ethics anymore, either.
- Tyler Hurst
Wise words from @arrington "News is stuff someone doesn’t want you to write. The rest is advertising."
- Mark
Stephen: exactly. Money does cause news organizations to carefully consider their coverage, even those who say it doesn't and that have a "Chinese firewall" between editorial and advertising.
- Robert Scoble
No one is in this tight economy its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$
- Stephen Pickering
Mark - BS. he publishes rumors too.
- Tyler Hurst
Stephen: if I had the documents I'd have to consider its impact on my employer, Rackspace. That's why I disclose all my conflicts of interest.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble - do you believe Arrington's claim that he just received these documents?
- Tyler Hurst
Robert: Trick is to take the employer out of the equation. What would you do if you were on your own?
- Mike Shea
Robert: good points, are techcrunch going to publish the stories is the question now? I think twitter is at a point now where it does not matter if techcrunch start a war with them if they were to just ban all techcrunch and employee accounts.
- Darren Stuart
There's no better publicity than bad publicity. Just remember that. Remember the whole Ashton and CNN thing? That turned out to be backed by twitter and created HUGE publicity for them. Something doesn't smell right. Not saying all bad publicity is good for both parties, but in a situation like this, it's plausible that both Ev/twitter and Mike/TC are just laughing their asses off as the publicity pulls in more page views
- Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
Mike is not a journalist. He is a self-confessed showboater.
- Mark Littlewood
Mike - so much for the honesty, transparency and authenticity we hoped social media and such would provide. A new ruling class has just replaced the old one.
- Tyler Hurst
Tyler: yes, I do believe Arrington.
- Robert Scoble
Does twitter go after the hacker?
- Tyler Hurst
Tyler, especially with the whole mob thing and FF. Something is up here. Of course, I could be completely off my rocker and it's all just one big coincidence and Mike really is that much of a pompous ass.
- Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
The twit poll on the issue from TC http://twtpoll.com/2a1oiv showed an overwhelming stance from the community that posting the information is unethical. It might be better for TC to let someone else (Mashable) post the information, resulting in removal from a SUL and gaining both ethical rapport with the community and an edge over competition. This is one story that would be rough to break, why is that only TC has the information so far? That is the more alarming concern.
- thestaticfrost
Well so far all he has posted about is the Twitter Reality TV pitch. So I suppose there is a chance Twitter convinces him to not post anything else. In my mind it would look bad if he backs down now given the perception of the SUL.
- Kevin Whalen
Mark: Mashable won't publish these either. They have benefited from the SUL a lot more than Arrington has.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, interesting POV, I would still personally stand down on the issue.
- thestaticfrost
ethics a side I think its a case of - if SUL pageviews > estimated story pageviews then do not publish
- Darren Stuart
Mark: on the SUL? Yeah, but the SUL is interesting and won't stop being interesting just because I stop writing about it. There are rafts of new journalistic text books being written because of it.
- Robert Scoble
The more I think about this...the more it seems plausible that twitter has been doing stuff behind closed doors to generate publicity. Who's heard of twitter going after ANY hacker? Why is it only TC that this email was sent to? If a hacker REALLY had this info, wouldn't they do something a bit less obvious? Like I dunno...sell the stuff? Which brings up another question....how much did TC pay for this info? I guess if TC continues to be on the SUL we'll know the answer.
- Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
Mike: what would I do if I were on my own? I'm biased toward publishing, but I need to know the facts first before I really could say one way or the other.
- Robert Scoble
To put it in reverse, maybe if you got the documents you could give them back to Twitter in exchange for getting on the SUL. :)
- Louis Gray
Mike: it's possible that the hacker works for TechCrunch or has a business relationship with TechCrunch. Mike has built a good network of people who offer him news before anyone else. The thing is now Mike has access to internal info at Twitter that will be hard to avoid in interviews with Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Mike/Robert: If a less reputable blogger/company had this information, it would already have been posted and this conversation would be moving another direction. The pageviews would trump any SUL.
- thestaticfrost
mark - what a crappy way to make a name for yourself. publishing stolen documents to serve the public good is one thing, publishing as a smear campaign is wrong.
- Tyler Hurst
Mark: I don't believe that's true. Remember, TechCrunch only had about 50,000 followers on Twitter before being added to the SUL. I seriously doubt one story would get them more than 100,000, even if it was the most interesting, sexy story around.
- Robert Scoble
Tyler, it would be an awful way to make a name for yourself, I agree but that is not the issue.
- thestaticfrost
Louis: word gets around when you extort companies. It's not a good thing and almost always comes back on you eventually as the people involved move to other companies and spread the news around.
- Robert Scoble
Louis: if I had the documents I wouldn't use them as extortion for that reason. I know one guy who extorted a company and I'll always remember that.
- Robert Scoble
Tyler, if TechCrunch was doing it as a smear campaign they would publish a lot more of the documents and have started off with something other that a softball.
- Matthew McCowan
Arrington is getting it both ways here. He writes about it to say they're not going to post the most juicy stuff but he still gets most of the benefits of posting everything. A lot of people are talking about it. He's a master hypeologist.
- Justin Whittaker
Matthew - that was in reference to a small blogger grabbing the documents and throwing them all out there.
- Tyler Hurst
Justin: that is accurate about Arrington.
- Robert Scoble
Tyler, oh gotcha - sorry
- Matthew McCowan
Freaking Kelso is on the suggested users list, Arrington has 800K subscribers, hooray how many tweets fall silent in the Twitter forest. Much ado about nothing and the SUL.
- Patrick Boegel
Matthew - no, techcrunch is doing it for the page views, of course.
- Tyler Hurst
Robert, interesting tie of numbers into the SUL growth of TC. Perhaps there is an exorbitant value of the SUL, this story would just be pennies in comparison. I see no feasible monetary gain available for TC to violate this ethical issue.
- thestaticfrost
Patrick: even if you aren't on the SUL most of your followers aren't listening. :-)
- Robert Scoble
I'm sick of being monetized into the services I use.. It's almost enough to make me stop it all altogether.
- John Blanton
John - stuff has to get paid for.
- Tyler Hurst
Says John as he drinks a $4 latte from Starbucks.
- Robert Scoble
"I'm sick of being monetized into the services I use." - Then turn off the TV and radio, don't buy any newspapers or magazines, or look at any ad-supported web sites. It's the way of the world.
- John Craft
Stupid posh coffee. Normal coffee, with milk, please.
- Mark
I guess I'm not seeing how the SUL status of TC is factoring. TC is going ahead and publishing the information they deem to be part of their news mission. Is the insinuation that if SUL status were not a factor, that TC would publish the entirety of the documents without culling non-TC mission-related information?
- Matthew DeVries
that is what I mean Robert, I follow you for interesting information, not because someone suggested it, sure there are people who sign on for Twitter and just follow a host of the suggested users I guess, but I just see zero value in that, there is nothing organic in it, so it does not bother me, I am pretty sure the likes of Tech Crunch and Mashable have each questioned whether being on there has hurt or helped. Followers and fans is pretty "loose" terminology, and a metric that gets dicey after some time.
- Patrick Boegel
I fully agree with the premise that SUL-Status is a COI consideration.
- Matthew DeVries
Patrick: Arrington tells me that being on the SUL has brought them audience and, therefore, money.
- Robert Scoble
I don't have a problem with Techcrunch releasing the articles they are, however don't say they are doing in for public interest. They are doing it for Techcrunch interest, nothing wrong with that, but lets be honest.
- Kim Landwehr
Right now the man with all the answers is fast asleep in his bed, dreaming of world domination
- Mark
Kim - yep.
- Tyler Hurst
Matthew: pat of the "Mission" of a business is never to shoot yourself in the foot.
- thestaticfrost
Can we just ignore the people who claim SUL status is not of value? It's like arguing with flat-eatherers at this point. Just accept it as fact and let's discuss how this value is affecting TC's behavior here.
- Matthew DeVries
Robert: This is what happened when the lovely Veronica Belmont finally responded to my questions regarding the number of 'bots' following those on the SUL :http://ff.im/57MjU
- Jim Connolly
I'd like to see an estimate of the ROI of being on the SUL. Different for everyone, but it can be modeled. Would bring an interesting new perspective into the discussion.
- Peter Kim
Matthew - the only debate of SUL value would be total worth, not if it has a worth.
- Tyler Hurst
If I could offer you hundreds of thousands of extra hits on your website a year, for FREE, would you accept?
- Mark
Mark: there is no such thing as a free lunch.
- Robert Scoble
Nothing is ever free.
- thestaticfrost
But that's a debate for a different thread. We're in the midst of a real time story right now, and we should be discussing how that thing of value is affecting TC's reporting of a story. I would contend it's not, as TC is going ahead and publishing the documents, without regard for loss of SUL-Status.
- Matthew DeVries
hehe
- Mark
What if Twitter is using their influence at TechCrunch, to manage the delivery of this 'story?' Better that, than someone publish the story, with a negative spin.
- Jim Connolly
Matthew: how do you know it's not? Mike has already said he's talking with Twitter and he hasn't published the information. So, he gets best of both worlds. Gets credit for having the info, and now has inside access that no one else has. The SUL might never have even come up (I doubt it has, actually) but now we're wondering what kind of deal they made.
- Robert Scoble
That would be a good point, Jim, but what I've read from Arrington is that they're publishing the documents that relate to their news mission.
- Matthew DeVries
here is a link to a story that deals with Arringtons "wise words" http://ff.im/5g6LJ
- Marco
Matthew: yes, which leads me to think that he made a deal with Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
TC has not let the cat out yet, no reason to believe that it will. They made it past the first hour of having the information which is most crucial to it being fully released.
- thestaticfrost
Robert - I agree that is a realistic concern, but I would reserve judgement until the story rolls.
- Matthew DeVries
Good point Jim. That TC story was actually Incredibly measured. Not like arrington at all. Hmmmmm....
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Matthew: I'm not judging, just bringing up the potential conflicts of interest to discuss them. I don't see anyone judging here yet.
- Robert Scoble
I agree with Arrington's assertion that publishing what kind of panties @ev's wife wears would not be within TC's news mission.
- Matthew DeVries
Correct. You're not judging. Just trying to stem the mob till they have a true target.
- Matthew DeVries
Robert: In your experience, would Michael Arrington NORMALLY be this careful about drip feeding a story, so as NOT to offend the person / company featured in the story?
- Jim Connolly
And Robert: your points here SHOULD be in the front of everyone's mind when they do roll the story.
- Matthew DeVries
I may be naive here, but I also think any Twitter-directed communication regarding the release should be disclosed by Arrington when the story rolls, else he's not a reporter, he's a shill.
- Matthew DeVries
Jim: Twitter is the story of the year. So, yes, he's being more careful here than he otherwise would. And, if these documents were stolen, he's also a lawyer and is being careful to make sure he stays on the legal side of the line. I would be very careful with this story too. I have a different conflict of interest, though, which is that I'm an employee of Rackspace and would have to consider the impact of such a story on my company.
- Robert Scoble
Let's be clear if Techcrunch has the information, so does someone else. The information is going to get out. Techcrunch maybe releasing the story slowly to maintain the interest. My guess is they are getting a lot more hits with this story then they would normally
- Kim Landwehr
Matthew: I like to pretend I live in a dream world sometimes too, but I don't. I doubt we'll hear what was actually said back and forth in an off-the-record conversation. If i were Ev the first thing I would have said is "this is an off the record conversation, right?" And then if Arrington repeated it he would lose status too, because sources wouldn't trust him to talk openly.
- Robert Scoble
Kim: if other people have the story they will publish it all at once. So doing a slow rollout would actually be stupid. I bet no one else has the story, yet.
- Robert Scoble
I don't see them on the twitter SUL
- Orli Yakuel
Ok, going too lunch. This will probably outpace me too far to catch up. Not ducking direct questions to me.
- Matthew DeVries
Orli: see who?
- Robert Scoble
Orli: if you are already following TechCrunch and Mashable they won't appear on the SUL, you've gotta check with an account that isn't following them.
- Robert Scoble
oh, silly me. I remember that list before BTW, it's just got HUGE. who's checking there anyway?
- Orli Yakuel
Orli: most new users of Twitter get shown the list and get the option to follow everyone on it.
- Robert Scoble
It looks like some of the same information is being released on a French Web site per bizjournal
- Kim Landwehr
Sorry if this is a repeat, I haven't managed to read every single comment... @techcrunch didn't even publish these docs first; why are they taking all the heat? This was the first place I saw it - http://bit.ly/10FySf
- Kenton
um.
- Orli Yakuel
Kenton: Because Arrington himself said he would publish them. Arrington is a joke and far from a true journalist.
- John Fox
John: I disagree with you about Arrington. But so far nothing is that interesting in what the French site has published. So I'm wondering what the big deal is? Maybe Arrington knows that there's no real news value in what was gained, so he is making lemonade out of lemons? The real story here is that Google's security measures were overcome, so this is a cautionary tale about putting private info into the cloud.
- Robert Scoble
I totally agree about your cloud comment Robert. This should be a lesson to everyone who's jumping on the bandwagon without thinking about the risks.
- Kenton
Here's another post from Business Insider. Now that the docs have been published, everyone can link ethically, even though the info was stolen. Ahh, I love the journalism business sometimes. http://www.businessinsider.com/twitter...
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I don't see where the educational part of the content is that he's going to publish. What will be gained except corporate secrets and Twitter's dirty laundry? If this was a major corporation, he'd an injunction would be in effect right now. Yes, shame on Twitter for putting that kind of information in the cloud without adequate security, but then again, Arrington doesn't need to take advantage of the situation for notariety alone. That's a poor ethical standard.
- John Fox
John: Arrington gets the best of both worlds. He gets credit for thinking through the publishing of this info, while other people do the dirty work. See http://www.businessinsider.com/twitter... Why didn't Arrington just publish? Well, the SUL is one potential reason. Are there others? Did @ev give him an exclusive? Or some other reason not to publish? We'll never know.
- Robert Scoble
Arrington is definitely doing some back dealing which quite frankly makes him lose credibility.
- Kevin Whalen
from email
I think by the time Arrington wakes up (lazy bastard) he will have been Scooped by other websites
- Mark
Mark: already has been: http://www.businessinsider.com/twitter...
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I don't doubt that Arrington walked a fine line, thinking through the publishing of the info. I don't fault him for that. As a tech writer myself, I know there are certain things that will get you sued in a heartbeat. However, I don't see what Arrington has to gain from this other than notariety and to get TC's name out there even more. This is a tainted story from the start....
more...
- John Fox
Ok question, are we mad at Techcrunch ie Arrington, because he published only part of the information or that he publish the information at all or that he said he would publish it and didn't?
- Kim Landwehr
I'm not saying it's okay to publish ill-gotten confidential material but people would be less tempted to do so if Twitter were more transparent and less secretive. For a social network, they have a real 1.0 social media philosophy. Even Facebook reveals information about their userbase and growth. But Twitter is like a black box as the #fixreplies disaster revealed. And since that hashtag dropped off the Trending Topics, we've never heard any more about their proposed solution.
- Liz
The lack of democracy on the SUL is one of the most disturbing aspects of Twitter. It pushes Twitter towards an echo chamber since new people just follow the same old people. There needs to be some serious rotation.
- Trent Hamm
Didn't Kevin Rose design an enhanced SUL for Twitter? Where people who identify themself with a tag tell you who they follow with that tag?
- Matthew DeVries
Matthew: yes, Rose runs http://www.wefollow.com -- the problem is that most people on the home page and at the top of most lists are on Twitter's SUL.
- Robert Scoble
Just logged into twitter and a big red box tells me my account is suspensed for strange activity. Hmm
- Mark
But I can still post. Hmm
- Mark
I am reading that thousands of twitter accounts have been wrongly suspended due to "human error". Has anyone heard anything?
- Mark
he sees to have delisons of Grandure Murdoch gets away with hacking becasue of his power and the willingness of cronys to take the fall and the plod to turn a blind eye - he still needs to mak the public interest defence which he has not
- Maurice Walshe
Twitter's response: http://blog.twitter.com
- Liz
Judging by Liz's link, looks like Twitter chose to play cards in public and Twitter just won. Talking about "The underware drawer" analogy flat out says the documents are gossip and not a story. This makes TechCrunch look like a gossip rag. Twitter also focused on their users and their security- the Ace of Spades. Bravo.
- E-Advocate Network
Calling TechCrunch a journalistic entity is an extreme stretch of the imagination, as the vast majority of their blogs are opinion totally devoid of fact. TechCrunch has found that "ethical line" Arrington mentioned, and tripped right over it, falling face first into the sewer. Indeed, TechCrunch's true colors have now revealed just how much of a gossip rag they are, totally lacking in...
more...
- jcunwired
I was wrongly suspended along with 9 others months ago. It was a terrible experience.
- DaveDelaney.ME
my question for mr. scoble is, if the same documents landed in your inbox would you have done the same thing?
- Tobias Lewsadder
poop
- Jacob
Just curious about something. Earlier I tried following Techcrunch on Twitter and found I was blocked, supposedly "at the request of the user." Since I don't remember saying a bad word about Techcrunch or Michael (as Robert can attest from discussions in the past couple of months, I've usually defended Arrington on a few things), I'm wondering if the block was TechCrunch's doing or Twitter's.
- George Hall (Australia)
Social Media Trends - Community Profiles - SAP Community Network Wiki - https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki...
Florian, Jenny Levine, Patrick Boegel and 4 other people liked this
Excellent collection of social media articles and thought pieces -- on SAP's corporate site!
- Charlene Li
Google Knows You - http://www.steverubel.com/google-...
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HealingBrush, ravi karandeekar, тут не место для and 33 other people liked this
It knows You, not Me.
- Mohamed J
Seems to only work int eh US.
- Steve Rubel
from email
yeah profile listing is US only, funny nevertheless...
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
In Russia doesnt work too
- Kaspar Minosiants
yes, it doesn't work in Russia - not me, not ya (я)
- Olga Rasulova
I'm starting to think Bing might know me better though. Bing'd myself last night and was amazed what came back...
- Walt Ruppar
from iPhone
does not work here
- Ouriel Ohayon
well if you were in soviet russia, google would google you.
- bora "head" basman
@bora "head" basman but for now google is only google you if you are in us :)). Under the google hood LOL joking
- Kaspar Minosiants
not me neither
- Daniele - Viralavatar
Google keeps switching between between me and MobileMe.
- Peter Kim
.)
- bora "head" basman
Google scares the crap out of me sometimes.
- Larry Hawes
Google does scares me too but I have to say I like it
- Dave Onkels
Profiles were working outside the US for a while. They no longer do. If you're trying it out, make sure you go to google.com and not your country's version.
- Diego Barros
I have a google profile but google doesn't know me :(
- Thatched House
rt @hyku: what does a basic data-set for social media tactics look like? http://vocecommunications.com/blog...
Peter Kim liked this
The Scoble Top Tech Blogger/FriendFeed/Social Media List - http://scobleizer.com/2008...
Yuval Atzmon, Peter Kim, Svetlana Gladkova and 48 other people liked this
Liking because I hate http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Eric Rice
Oh my God, oh my God, I'd like to thank my agent, my mom, HI MOM,...
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Eric, just for that I updated my list with your latest stuff.
- Robert Scoble
LOL Eric... :)
- Zee.
I like Louis's title: "The guy who got Scoble into FriendFeed"
- Jesse Stay
Chris Pirillo isn't on there either
- Jesse Stay
from twhirl
Oh, nevermind - he's under "lockergnome"
- Jesse Stay
from twhirl
yeah he is - just under lockernome - his porno name
- Zee.
Great list with great titles; I added new friends. And also lots of new ones subscribed to me after Scoble's post!
- Erhan Erdogan
Erhan: I just added a bunch more too. Keep them coming!
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Friendfeed will have a pick after you ; ) (*Add Paul S's title - I knew him from his Yahoo Internship days, great choice; Paul Stamatiou: Skribit Co-Founder known for his prowess with all things tech)
- Erhan Erdogan
I'm not on it, but I like it anyway. ;-) Lot of names I didn't know, which is nice.
- David Risley
...every week I see a weird list of glorifying people .. I know it's a web2.0 social thing, but really what's the point of these "articles" and messages everytime? and probably risking my complete "social online life" here, but ....djeez.. whats the point of these lists!?
- Pascal
Pascal: My point? I want more techie behavior here on FriendFeed. This is my way of rewarding the people who bring me high quality bits.
- Robert Scoble
I think lists like these are actually making the barrier for "the other people" higher to appreciate Friend feed, because it's hard to escape a certain list of people on friendfeed because their posts are everywhere due to 600-800 people liking it you can't escape these people.. Perhaps articles and lists of "who to follow" are narrowing the friendfeed usage to an elite group?
- Pascal
Thanks again for the shoutout, Robert... my title = "site & tech lead of Gaia.com".
- Christopher Galtenberg
Pascal: "Like storms" on FriendFeed only last a few hours, a day or two at most. But then you'll have a lot more people to follow thanks to this list and you'll also have new blood coming in here because new people will see the value of participating here. So, long term it's a win for everyone. Short term? Yeah, it's a bit messy.
- Robert Scoble
I'm not on the list. boo-hoo! :)
- Sarah Perez
Damn, um, hey Robert. /me waves
- EricaJoy
He didn't add me either, but I got over it. :-)
- David Risley
It's all High School until you die.
- Keith Shepard
from twhirl
bah.
- Loic Le Meur
let's have a glass of wine soon, even id you don't like my tweets and friendfeeds :)
- Loic Le Meur
guess I'm too geeky, too geeky for your list.. ;)
- alphaxion
Loic knows how to get my attention.
- Robert Scoble
Tks for the nod big guy :) Here another one .... Sarah Perez above is one of my daily fav's (RWW, Channel 10, SarahatTampa.com, etc etc)
- Charlie Anzman
Robert - I agree, Loic is one smart guy - the wine route is perfect!!
- Susan Beebe
like the list wish there were more women on it
- Kim Landwehr
Yeah Scoble! Where are all the girls?! :)
- Patricia
Patricia: you tell me geeky women who have decent signal and I will add them to the list.
- Robert Scoble
@robert, hmm....queen of spain maybe? she's a blogger with a political voice and so freaking cool....
- Patricia
Queen of spain added. After all, we were drinking Vodka together just a few days ago.
- Robert Scoble
must bring Vodka or Wine to Scoble to get brownie points! :)
- Susan Beebe
thanks for putting me on the list robert. you are the first person i look for on any new network or website that i check out. ;)
- Rodney Rumford
The U.S.S. Titanic is sinking and this, I'm afraid, is a list of people who are just rearranging deck chairs. Not that its not fun to do that for a while.
- Elliott Ng
Scoble, I'm not Patricia, but Sarah Perez has good signal. Kthanxbai.
- Laura Norvig
OK, wait, you put Evan Williams on that list? The dude has ONE native post to friendfeed, and his tweets are not particularly techie. So ... some people get on the list just because of who they are, not because of their signal?
- Laura Norvig
You want more techie behaviour here? I love techie stuff, but it seems to me that FF is a huge echo chamber of techie behaviour. Now I know you're not at all interested in FF expanding beyond early adopter territory. If you don't like non-techie posts, why are you subscribing to people who post them? Who's going to put together a list of great NON-techie users? (One of the lists a couple of weeks ago had a number of non-social media/tech based people, and I subscribed to them all. I want more.)
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Good post. Informative. How about a Friendfeed directory or encyclopedia of top (interesting/prolific) users?
- Alex Hammer
My fellow Democrats - http://scobleizer.com/2008...
Christian Van Der Henst, Keith - @tsudo, jcunwired and 58 other people liked this
Robert, this piece is right on the mark. Great work. Now hopefully others will take this to heart and put it into action.
- Eric Newman
You missed 1 trillion dollar misguided kbr war and its consequences !
- imran
Well stated, Robert.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
from twhirl
imran: good point. That drains resources too that could be used to improve our competitiveness.
- Robert Scoble
Excellent points Robert.
- Jeff P. Henderson
A great post Robert. Speak to people about something they can aspire to, stop treating them like you think they are inbred sheep and jsut maybe Obama can get momentum back.
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
I agree with you on the point of what has to change. But you are saying that Republicans are more liberal than Democrats are, which is stupid. So much of America is more conservative than the Republican Party is showing today. And what the government should do in the next 4 years? Nothing but repeal the idiotic laws and regulations causing so many problems like high health care costs. PS-Religion is not taking over our society/government, look at our social habits and all forms of media.
- Randy
@Robert: Thanks for the thought provoking post.
- imran
Weren't you smitten and totally tricked by the pretty guy who cheated on his wife?
- Douglas Karr
from twhirl
I wish one day KBR subcontracting awards/terms/prices are released/leaked.
- imran
Douglas: yes, I was smitten and totally tricked by John McCain who cheated on his handicapped wife. Thanks for noticing.
- Robert Scoble
The same cultural and intellectual arrogance that Democrats displayed in 2004 is back again in 2008. Point well made to get focused on things that matter before Democrats are left stunned on November 5th wondering what happened, empty threats to move to Canada, buying bumper stickers that say "don't blame me," etc...
- Peter Kim
Haha - awesome Robert! I bow to your snarky rebute. :)
- Douglas Karr
from twhirl
Great post, Robert. I've been seeing the same actions from people around me, and it's sad to see Democrats take the easy way out and give up hope for the future. I feel like the nation is at a turning point and to pass up on this opportunity will just continue to further our slide from one of the greatest nations in the world. We don't want to just be "ok" as a country, we want to be "great" and that's not easy. (Also, don't be so quick to blame religion, we're not happy with the situ either.)
- Sam Dodge
Or perhaps high tech jobs are leaving for the same reason low tech jobs are leaving...wages are higher here than in other countries. You can improve U.S. education and loosen immigration all you want, but if doing business in China improves your bottom line, companies will hire in China.
- Ontario Emperor
from fftogo
As much as I loved Robert's retort, McCain is not the least bit pretty.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Ontario: the CEOs tell me that it's not just the high wages here (which have gotten a lot lower due to the weak dollar, actually). They tell me they can't bring over here the smartest workers. They can't deal with the high medical costs. They can't deal with the uneducated workforce that's not ready for jobs in science and technology. They can't deal with the infrastructure here (bad transporation systems for moving their workers around, and bad broadband into the home so they are less able to work at home)
- Robert Scoble
@Robert: I always wondered what if our government spent one trillion dollars on a new Global Marshall plan to develop the troubled areas after 2001 as a reaction, just imagine, where economy of the world would be today, remember oil barrel price was at mid 20s at start of war.
- imran
Weren't we told by the Dems a while back that cheating on your wife in the Oval office was just fine and not a cause for concern? McCains history is not an issue for me - the guy is flawed but human. I can accept that about people. I am not a brittle moralist.
- Soulhuntre
just posted this - http://tinyurl.com/yesman - needless to say i think there is a place for concentrating on the shortcomings of the incumbent administration, especially if a candidate is so obviously shaping up to perpetuate them. that said, i will answer Robert's call for something positive, and I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments behind it. important post.
- Dan Light
Great post. I think the key to this election may very well be the economy. In middle America - where the Republicans dominated 4 years ago, people are tired of watching their retirement accounts shrink, as the price of day to day living: gas and groceries continues to rise. If the democrats can come up with a specific plan of attack, this may very well be the point that tips the election.
- Lorraine Ball
Actually, Soulhuntre, I think the Dems said that having a consentual affair with one person wasn't evidence of illegally pressuring someone else to bestow favors.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Obama should propose temporarily lifting the costs for bringing money into the US. They did this after 9/11 and billions were brought back into the country by all sorts of corporations. Those dollars went into Domestic investment and really helped things out. He could win over a lot of business votes with that move.
- Andrew
Soulhuntre - No one said it was fine for anyone to cheat on their wife. Just that it shouldn't be the subject of a congressional investigation and impeachment.
- Andrew
@MiniMage - some did. But many, many more went on and on about how character doesn't matter, only policies matter. They never really understood why folks might care about the core of a persons views. Am I thrilled McCain had an affair? Nope. Am I happy to take that flaw over a personality that lets someone cut a shady deal with a guy like Rezco and hag out will Bill Ayers? You bet.
- Soulhuntre
Coastal elites want to talk about education, science and technology and infrastructure; hillbillies (like Soulhuntre) are fixated on extra-marital affairs. Exhibit A -- America is in major decline as the world's leading economic superpower.
- Sean McBride
Great essay. The main problem -- declining education, declining literacy, declining science and technology, declining generation of intellectual capital vis-a-vis our competitors -- all the other problems flow from those core problems. And the current Republican Party is pandering to a fundamentalist base which seems to hate intellectual activity. We may well be at the end of our run as the world's leading economic superpower.
- Sean McBride
@Andrew Burd - many, many dems here in the NYC area (since that is where I meet the most people) didn't care about it at all. They simply denied that it shoudl be a factor in how they saw the man at all. The impeachment stuff was a whole other deal I was not a big fan of.
- Soulhuntre
Interesting how this started with me asking Democrats to avoid aiming at Republican groins, but now Republicans are aiming at our groins. Damn, can't we do better than this? I guess not.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, listen to the DSC Podcast with Adam Curry. Check out http://drop.io/dailysourcecode You've got a lot to learn.
- bill giltner
Most of the problems you cite stem from cultural anti-intellectuallism. I'm not sure what any government or person can do to make America value intellectualism more - we're simply a nation that's become too complacent in our success, and hasn't been able to think for ourselves to solve a problem in a long, long time. Republicans exploit it, but they didn't create it. And I don't think the Democrats can do anything to change it.
- Eric P
Scoble - love the post. One thing I'd like to ask. Why is that many republicans love to call anyone that is a Democrat a "liberal" or "socialist?" It's like their two year old only this is their new way of calling someone a "poopie head?" I'm always up for healthy debate over the good and bad of both parties but geesh, when the other party can't talk like an adult, it makes it awfully hard to have a productive conversation.
- Aaron Strout
I'd vote for any candidate who built a platform around improving the US based on your 6.5 points. Democrat or Republican, these are all extremely important issues. The Reps have already picked which side they want to be on (http://bit.ly/17CClx). I'd like to see the Dems stake as a strong a position.
- Chris Rogers
Robert - The one problem I had with the post was the lumping legal and illegal immigrants together. America is not mad at legal immigrants. It's the ones who intentional break our laws to get into the country. Come one, come all, but do it legally. Immigration is one of the things that makes our country great.
- eyeonpower
while I agree 95% with your post, just a minor not: Reagan didn't ask German's to tear down the wall, he asked Gorbachev - but in the end, it was us Germans who tore it down with the tacit understanding that Gorbachev would let it happen - I don't think Reagan's speech had a lot of influence over the millions of protesters in Eastern Germany :)
- Frederic
I think it's BOTH AND. I think we should both be talking about the issues dear to us AND pointing out the most newsworthy facts about Palin as President in Waiting because no one in her position has been as woefully prepared. That's not pot shots. That's fact. And too many would forget Keating Five in favor of focusing on the positive. In the end, humor and satire (i.e. wit and intellect) will take down the GOP, not blogging. Tina Fey and Sarah Benincasa, I love you.
- jeneane sessum
On the show The Communicators on CSPAN rtsp://video1.c-span.org/project/de/com091308_mcdowell.rm The FCC speaks to the point of the US not really being 19th in the world for broadband. It's not as bad as people make it to be. Check it out. He speaks to net neutrality as well.
- Lee Bautista
Wow, everyone has very good comments to Robert's great post. Robert, let me just say that while I'm a republican, I would echo your call to arms... While I do not necessarily agree the Democratic candidates are the correct recourse - a change in direction is most assuredly necessary. Unfortunately, the collective 'we' continue our in-fighting to such a degree we miss the important things such as horrendous medical costs and anti-immigrant sentiment (what happened to the great melting pot?).
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
You know what I hate? I hate that Robert felt he had to say "My fellow Democrats" rather than "My fellow Americans". Personally, I don't identify with either party, but I can promise you there are Republicans who care about these issues too and even are on the same side as Robert is on some/most of them. The far right pollutes the Repulican name, just as the far left pollutes the Democrats - but Americans are mostly bunched up around the center - and it's only by working together we'll make real changes.
- Don MacAskill
good post robert. unfortunately, most americans tend to vote with their heart, not with their head. karl rove has a much better sense of what gets votes than the dems, altho i hope that obama can ris above. still, i agree the issues you selected are pretty much the ones i care about too (particularly: education, immigation, infrastructure... healthcare too, but that needs a hell of a lot more work)
- dave mcclure
Robert, as I stated in my previous post, your own candidates admit the are not the right choice for the country.http://twurl.nl/h51657a... last but not least:http://twurl.nl/ezgmeoThis is your own candidates and your party speaking.Hard to beat your own facts.
- Thomas Capote
from twhirl
Other countries always did a good job in many fields, the difference is now Americans are paying attention to that. Big world out there.
- Adriano Gonçalves
+1 Don.
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
Really good post. For a moment, I actually thought we'd have a policy debate this election, but we're back to celebrities, moose burgers & lipstick. I'd love to see a push to discuss these issues. (Of course, I also think the Democrats have better answers, but I'd still like to hear the debate anyway.)
- Paul Rodriguez
Education will never change under any Democrat. The Teachers Unions will see to that. Obama has already had to back off from any talk of vouchers, merit pay, and allowing capable people to teach whether or not they have a four-year education degree. Teachers Unions have crippled our educational system for decades and Democrats are the cause of that, not the solution.
- Dawn
Very well said. I immigrated to the US with the impression that this country is home to socially broad minded citizens who lead the world by breaking new frontiers. However the last few years of extreme social conservatism has disappointed me. We as a country seem less tolerent, race is still a major factor in almost everything, education is put down by using such words as "elite" etc. I hope we come out of this social nose dive and once again be world leaders we once were.
- Balakrishnan Satyamurti
Balakrishnan: "last few years of extreme social conservatism"??!! Are you kidding me? There are over 1 MILLION babies being aborted every year in the U.S. Gays and Lesbians are starting to marry. Animal rights are going up. Property rights are going down. Genetic engineering is increasing. What the country is most less tolerant of is religion. Yes, race is still a factor, but we've got...
more...
- Dawn
Why I'm leaving Forrester - http://blogs.forrester.com/charlen...
Wesley Barrow, tariqkrim, Rebecca Pruzan and 40 other people liked this
Best of luck Charlene
- David Churbuck
from Alert Thingy
Good luck on your future and your book is outstanding.
- Jon Erickson
I seriously hope you'll continue to be 'visible with your occasional thoughts' in other ways. Best of luck!
- Charlie Anzman
I hope you maintain a blog about your thoughts. Good luck.
- Hutch Carpenter
Best of luck to you in your new adventure! So excited for you. - steve
- Steve Rubel
Congrats Charlene! You've been a great inspiration for women in tech
- Kathy Johnson
I'm sure whatever you do will be most importantly good for you and your family! Good luck.
- Jim Kukral
Good luck. Your book has been a big help.
- Charles Barthold
from Alert Thingy
Congratulations on your decision and best of luck. Enjoy your improved work/life balance!
- Adam Sherk
Good luck in your career! You were very informative at the Web 2.0 Expo SF 2008. I enjoyed your presentation at the Social Media Strategy workshop
- Glenn Batuyong
from twhirl
Best of luck! I liked that post about reinventing your job every 18 months.
- Jeff Woelker
Thanks everyone for all of the good wishes. I'll be blogging again soon and will let everyone know when and where I re-surface.
- Charlene Li
Charlene, best of luck to you and your family. We will all miss your insights and analyses.
- warren sukernek
from twhirl
Good luck, and thanks for being so public about wanting to strike a balance between work & family. Working parents of both genders will be cheering you on!
- Dylan Tweney
Best of luck, Charlene. You're leaving big shoes to fill. I look forward to reading you again soon.
- Christian Anderson
Congratulations on your decision, and best of luck!
- Steve Bauer
good luck with your future endeavors! looking forward to more of your social technologies insights online.
- ~C4Chaos
good luck!!
- Jeremy Toeman
Wish you the best Charlene, I've always found your research, ideas and energy inspiring :)
- Brooklyn Art Project
Congratulations on your graduation and best of luck in this next big thing!! Cheers
- Mark Kingdon
Best of luck Charlene!
- Mitchell Tsai
Best of luck Charlene!
- Marc Dahan
Charlene, sounds like an enlightened and well considered choice. Congrats. Let us know if we can do anything to support your next-next steps. Be Great. Cheers! silva
- mark silva
good luck Charlene!
- Kingsley Joseph
I completely understand your move - being a career mom carries strong feelings of regret and dissonance, which you always need to solve. Thats a tiring process...Enjoy your time of resonance.
- Trendsspotting
Best of Luck Charlene... I think this is a great decision, obviously, one that came after much thought. Finding Balance is sooo key to happiness and productivity at work and home! Good Luck! Keep us posted on how you make out on this change!
- Susan Beebe
Good luck with everything - your research on social media has helped me tremendously! We'll miss you in "the scene". Cheers - Lorna
- Lorna Li
Why Facebook Connect Matters & Why it Will Win - http://gigaom.com/2008...
Susan Beebe, Aaron Myers, Jesse Stay and 3 other people liked this
uh no it will lose such a walled garden
- adolfo foronda
The 'real' Firefox - http://www.thingsthatmakeyougoaahh.com/2006...
Gema Terrones, Peter Kim, Migger and 13 other people liked this
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