peter huesken - Likes

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There was a lot of chatter about the future of FriendFeed this weekend. The short answer is that the team is working on a couple of longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world. Transformation is not the end. Consider this the chrysalis stage -- if all goes well, a beautiful butterfly will emerge :)

October 19 - Comment - Like - Share

Alfredo, Fabrizio, david beckwith and 243 other people liked this

What is transforming... FriendFeed, or the idea of FriendFeed? - Christopher Galtenberg

117 more comments

Thanks for the update, Paul! - Anne Bouey

THANK YOU! - teh Dork Knight aka Kenny

Fabulous News :) - Susan Beebe

Noticed the "leaked" Facebook UI screenshots and the groups blog post today, and both seem FriendFeed inspired: nice to see Facebook trying to bring the stuff we like about FriendFeed to a larger audience. - Mark Trapp

To Robert Scoble: I told you so ;-) - Jesse Stay

Sounds like they're adding some of FF's features to FaceBook. yay - Chrimmus Tad from fftogo

Mark - got link? - Susan Beebe

Thanks Paul :) - ashish

Devil is in the details: "couple of longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" == Facebook projects with FriendFeed-like elements == no work on FriendFeed itself. - EricaJoy

Paul, FriendFeed rocks as Gmail does ;) - Orlando Pozo

Thanks for the update, the more you communicate, the less we have to speculate. - Peter Hoffmann

The fact that these improvements are coming to Facebook and not friendfeed will not sway those who like friendfeed but dislike Facebook. - Alex Scoble

Thank you Paul for bringing "FriendFeed goodness to the larger world" -- THAT sounds awesome!! - Susan Beebe

integration with facebook? - Rocco Galluzzo

@Alex Scoble: That's true - Jorge Escobar

Susan: http://blog.facebook.com/blog... and http://mashable.com/2009... - Mark Trapp

I hope out of the chrysalis emerges an infested Kerrigan. That'd be awesome http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki... - Ivan Kirigin

Thanks Mark, much appreciated... I'll check those out - Susan Beebe

+1 Ivan :) - Benjamin Golub

But we knew this was the deal the moment the full details of the purchase of friendfeed by Facebook became public. - Alex Scoble

Yeah, I don't give a crap about Facebook. I want to know about FriendFeed. - Rochelle

Is it the interface people dislike about Facebook or the people they're friends with on Facebook? I can imagine being able to import all your subscribers from FriendFeed and have them in a separate group that doesn't interact with other groups you may have on Facebook. - Cristo

sadly, no one with any power seems to care about FF anymore. - Joe Silence is not Santa

I'm glad to hear this. I prefer FriendFeed to Facebook any day of the week. - Nathan Clayton

And the answer for me would be some of both. I have real life friends and family that I don't necessarily want to get into the same discussions with as I do with people here. - Cristo

And there's your answer, Rochelle. friendwho? friendwhat now? Oh, you mean Facebook! (No I mean friendfeed) friendwho? (rinse, lather, repeat) - Alex Scoble

there are some ui differences (and i tend to prefer friendfeed in those cases) but i have friended quite a few FF people in FB and the experience is remarkably similar in many ways. - Jason Wehmhoener

Another big difference is I don't think you get the same FOAF interaction on Facebook as on FriendFeed. - Cristo

yep - Jason Wehmhoener

I hope my FaceBook peeps are ready for the FriendFeed firehose ... past experience would say that they're in for a shock. - Crutis

Thanks for the transparency on the Friendfeed "ghost town" matter Paul. Much appreciated. - Alex Knight

Thanks Paul... bring the special sauce to Facebook: http://blogs.zdnet.com/weblife... - Andrew

I like the "chrysalis stage" analogy - sounds cool.... goes an looks for FF goodness butterfly! - Susan Beebe

Good to know that FriendFeed still has some fight left; hope that translates into a viable and sustainable platform/utility for the masses (though I quite enjoy the close-knit, uber-geek community that it's become). - Christian

I don't like the chrysalis analogy. The butterfly emerges from the chrysalis and buggers off leaving the shell. Of course, it might then also get eaten by a bird. Tweet, tweet. - Mark H

Mark LOL nice, ... haha - Susan Beebe

Note that he didn't say that FriendFeed.com was going away, only that they're diverted to bringing it to a much larger audience - Jesse Stay

The problem is Scoble (Robert) and MG both just sent half of FriendFeed away so most of those that would benefit from this announcement won't even see it. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, I didn't get that from Paul's comment. I read that some of the friendfeed ideas will be going into FB. I like that idea, but I still prefer FF to FB because of the different conversations here that I don't have with friends and family. - Travis Koger from iPhone

Yeah, Paul's statement won't help friendfeed. This will just either give people more reason to go to Facebook or find another service entirely. - Alex Scoble

What Alex and Rochelle said. This sounds like a "we're bringing FF to Facebook" announcement, and I don't give a damn about Facebook. I want to know what's happening HERE. And Cristo, both, but more the interface. I care about the friends I've made here, and I'm connected with many of them now on Facebook as well, but I prefer to interact with them here, because I like it better. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Travis, he didn't say that - you read that, but he didn't say that. I'm willing to bet FriendFeed.com will not go away. - Jesse Stay

As much as I agree about Scoble and MG driving people away, they have also effectively flush out some comment from the FF team. - Travis Koger from iPhone

Travis, there are better ways of getting the FF team to comment - Jesse Stay

:( I quite liked the caterpillar. - Nick Lothian

I think it's the opposite, the butterfly is becoming this crawling caterpillar :) - Jorge Escobar

Oh I don't think FF will go away, and damn will hope it doesn't either! - Travis Koger from iPhone

What I do see is more Facebook integrated into the FriendFeed environment - I think that's a good thing - Jesse Stay

The critical difference between Facebook and FriendFeed is the social model. With Facebook as it is today, you need to be mutual friends to see each others content. There is a "fan page" model but it is oriented toward "publishing/celebrity" rather than information sharing. FriendFeed has an asymmetric model like Twitter, where you can easily discover someone's content without any "friend" gesture whatsoever, and you can follow without friending. This makes the converation more discoverable, and useful.. - Adina Levin

Agree Adina. - Travis Koger from iPhone

If the integration is bringing public/asymmetric to Facebook, then it will be very useful indeed. If the integration is to add FriendFeed-style service integration into the symmetric/private Facebook model, it will be much less useful - it's more of the same - I'll be able to more easily share updates from youtube or last.fm or delicious to my friend network, but be unable to discover new people and infomation. - Adina Levin

Adina: And unless Facebook goes radically toward that model, it won't suffice for me. I could not care less about their upcoming redesigns. - Christopher A Carr

@Jesse - I can't see any sign that they are working on FriendFeed at all. All the indications are that the FF team is now working on Facebook, and only Facebook. That's great for Facebook, and I'm sure they will do wonderful work there. But don't delude yourself that FriendFeed is going to get anything more than critical fixes, and maybe the occasional thing done in someone's spare time. - Nick Lothian

Butterflies look totally different than caterpillars and they also fly away - Melanie Reed

Crickets chirping... is this site alive?? :) - Christopher Galtenberg

+100 Adina. The things I like best about FriendFeed (easy content/people discovery, FoaF, asymmetrical following and being followed) are completely opposite to Facebook's core model. That's why as much as people keep talking about Facebook adding FF-like features, I don't see the REAL FF core features making it over, because the mindset is different. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

I don't see this announcement as anything new, or as reassuring. We knew from the time of the acquisition that there would be would be some movement of FF capabilities into FB. The real question is whether this means absorption of FF into FB or attracting the FB user base into FF. The comment about "bring[ing] FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" still leaves that question open. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

+1 everything Alex Scoble has said. Friendwhat? What's a feed? Who uses RSS anymore? We've got PubSubWTFOMGBBQ now! - Mr. Gunn

Agree with Jandy on +100 Adina. - Amy℠

Also, I agree with Jandy and Adina's comments. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Nick, Paul just said they're working on other projects right now. That still doesn't mean FriendFeed is going away. I'm not deluding myself at all. I'm telling everyone else they're deluding themselves by assuming it's going away. All the FriendFeed team is still using FriendFeed, and Paul just tried to give us comfort not to worry. For some reason we all don't want to believe him. It's actually kind of amusing. - Jesse Stay

I wonder what the powers that be mean by "FriendFeedy goodness"? Is it understood what WE like about it vs. FB? - Amy℠

Paul - Wishing you all the best as you tend your new butterfly garden :) I'll be here to enjoy them! - Susan Beebe

Jesse: "For some reason we all don't want to believe him." <-- Don't want to believe what? He didn't really say anything. - Christopher A Carr

This is not the news that Friendfeed fans were looking for. - Raphael, Raphael

The issue isn't belief that they are going to do something. The question is what they are going to do, and whether that will continue the core value of FriendFeed, which is not just information aggregation but discoverability. - Adina Levin

I know more about the "Last Days" and heaven than I know about what's going to happen to FriendFeed as we have come to know it than was given in your rather cryptic answer, Paul. :) And while that may not be a fair comparison (God actually gave details and signs), there is something definitely not forthcoming about your response. A person usually withholds details that affect another... more... - Melanie Reed

Melanie, in other words, Paul works for a technology company in Silicon Valley that doesn't disclose future features, products, and services until they are ready. - Cristo

Hopefully this helps to quiet all of the "friendfeed is dying" talk. Because this thread proves ff is alive and well. - Garin Kilpatrick

@Jesse - I read it differently to you. To me, Paul is saying "We are taking what we were working towards on FriendFeed, and trying to bring that goodness to a bigger audience". No one is claiming they are going to shut down FF. - Nick Lothian

@Jesse - Want to make a bet on the number of new features added to FF before the end of the year? - Nick Lothian

You read my mind. Having seen a few acquisitions, I am wondering if FF staff was told to put the site in bugfix mode. - EricaJoy from IM

Cristo, to deliver some straightforward talk is not about giving away company details. If you have a product that is original and stands on its own, you don't need to refer to it as a "butterfly". Many companies even promote something new and upcoming especially to their loyal user base. It gives a signal. A proper one. It tells your users and future users enough so that they can make an informed decision about what they want to do instead of keeping them on tenderhooks - Melanie Reed

"the chrysalis stage in most butterflies is one in which there is little movement" (via wikipedia) So if you follow that metaphor then eventually FriendFeed will go through a metamorphosis -- that means it's not dead... really how hard can it be to get what he's saying? - Chris Heath

Its pretty hard :) The burning question is if they are putting FF goodness in to the walled gardens that are Facebook or are they bringing FF openness to FB too. I think the people here want the open forums that are FF not the closed ones that are FB. If FB is going hybrid with both walled gardens and open forums that would be OK too. People on FF want open forums... like Twitter and FF... without the crude interface that is Twitter and without the uncertainty that is FF now. - Ed Millard

Facebook is gonna have to rip off much of the privacy to maximize their product in the real-time web world. I am going to assume FF goodness is going to be applied to FB :) *crosses fingers* - Susan Beebe

Just a thought... why does "longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" JUST mean facebook.com? What I get from this is that they are working on a range of things, maybe bringing the FriendFeed sauce to a range of sites, powered by the Facebook back end. Who knows what that means. A FriendFeed service powered by FacebookConnect? Also to...... more... - Johnny Worthington

LMFAO. Johnny++ - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

FB needs to leave the privacy for the walled garden and the inner circle. Their current user base likes that. They just need a second feed that is an open forum and you can talk there without it bleeding in to your inner circle feed. - Ed Millard

Seems like the inner circle is breaking down some now, what with parents and other relatives friending teenagers. I'm guessing the information posted on the walls these days is not as private. Is there a way on FriendFeed to limit what on your wall can be seen by particular people and groups? - Cristo

Yes, but blocking doesn't work so well since you can just use Chrome's Incognito mode to get around it. - Alex Scoble

Translation: if you haven't switche to Facebook yet, you better do it now so you can get a good vanity URL. - David Chartier from iPhone

I don't know what all the fuss is about. But could we have the long answer too, please? - Laura Norvig

Although I'm interested, FB != FF. I don't see how the two mix in a way that makes me feel otherwise. Mixing audiences is not a good thing for me (with a few exceptions) and I know others share the same thought. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Did anyone notice that Robert Scoble didn't comment on this thread? What does this mean? Does it mean Robert Scoble won't exist soon? He must be working on a Monday afternoon, no? ;) - Cristo

Paul, will FF be here in 1 year, 5 years? - Robert Higgins

Robert, will you and I be alive in 5 years? - Cristo

Thanks for the update Paul.. - Chris Myles

Cristo I am funking nobody, I would like Paul to quantify his post. Simple. Will FF be here in 1 year? Will FF be here in 5 years? - Robert Higgins

Robert, I was trying to make the point that he might not know and can't predict what will happen over time. - Cristo

IMO friendfeed shoud attract more general audience... Facebook and twitter are having more general users. Most of the FF users are tech bloggers or those who needs aggregation services... I dont know it's just my feeling or not . but this is my impression on FF. but it's great service.. the features are too good... but we will roam were we meet our friends... thats most of the people are into twitter and FB. - Sarath

Sarath, is there a place you can get away from tech bloggers? :) - Cristo

Ohhhh a perrrttty butterfly, I'm moist with anticipation. - sofarsoShawn

Glad to hear it, Paul. - WorldofHiglet

Cristo: i almost made the same observation an hour or two ago when i first read through this posting and its comments. I was skimming and kept seeing alex, alex, alex... and thinking to myself... where's Robert!?! - Chris Heath

Great news. Thanks! friendfeed team. :D - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

@Sarath - I have a lot more in common with the people I've met here on FriendFeed than FB or Twitter. Twitter is too hard to search, and FB (and Twitter to a good extent) is driven by the people you know in RL (and unfortunately I don't have nearly as much in common in RL with my family, co-workers and acquaintences as I do with people scattered all over the world who I have met on FF).... more... - Fa La La La Lindsay

I think that in his cryptic statement he means, and a lot of people here agree with me, that more Facebook's going to get more FriendFeedy. Which doesn't mean that FF still isn't dead or doomed. After all, he works for Facebook now. FriendFeed=open forum, Facebook=walled garden, totally opposite master metaphors; but I don't think Zuckerberg gets it, and FF belongs to Zuckerberg now. So this is really about FB; FF's still in limbo. Still, some FF people friended me at FB, and I put them in a special list. - Dennis Jernberg

@FF-team keep on rocking :). BTW I also think it's really cool you guys open-sourced tornado. - alfred westerveld

+1 what alfred said, and good to hear words like "longer-term" & "beautiful" coming straight from The Walrus - keep that vision strong. Hope all goes well for FF team doing some good re-inventing the Octopus Garden of FB - seems you've got your work cut out for you there! It would be so nice if any way to keep a "simple & pure" form of FriendFeed alive (maintained and developed - more open source?) for us to enjoy, but no worries .... you've simultaneously raised the bar and paved the way for the rest! - Dan Freeman

Good luck with the development Paul! Hopefully Zuck has some positive insight. - Garin Kilpatrick

I like butterflies. - Harold Cabezas

Paul: If someone offered me a bag of money to do what you guys did, I would have done exactly the same (probably a lot faster too). However, it would be nice if you spent an hour answering some of the questions here. It might also give people like me a little more faith, in what used to be your primary project; Friendfeed. You made the best platform on the planet - why not use it to let us know what the heck's going on? - Jim Connolly

I'm assuming that Facebook wants to keep their roadmap quiet. I respect that but leaving you community in the dark for a brand that the applications stand for community building is rather ironic. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

SUPER!! I don't Blame ya 1 Darn bit fer Dumpin' FacePOOP Paul!! ;PPP Wait FacePOOP is the Maggot Stage!! ;)) - Billy Warhol

If I can still have all my friends that I have here on friendfeed and share things with them the exact same way, I don't care what "www" address I have to type in to get it. I just hope i don't have to give up any of FF's awesome features! Thanks for the update Paul! - David Cook

The problem is I don't know whether to wrote an app on your API or not because i'm not sure whether it will all be dropped in the "transformation". Imagine speding late nights and weekends coding something up only for it to be dropped suddenly. Need a decent long term picture. Looking at Cliqset. - Steven Livingstone-Pérez

Good point Steven - and one of the reasons many of us are spending so little time developing our networks here. - Jim Connolly

waiting.... - ffcode

ffcode: Good luck with that ;-) - Jim Connolly

So the changes are at Facebook not FriendFeed, Paul? - Kol Tregaskes

And good luck to all of your team - Ozkan Altuner from iPhone

This is a truly disappointing/concerning post and I think it would have been much better to hold comment until something more tangible could be discussed. Thanks for adding to the confusion/drama Paul. - Nicholas Kreidberg

yemezler - MobilAdam

I do care about what happens next, but this is the best news of the day nonetheless ! thanks for giving us updates at last ! and I do hope FF will awaken again ! such a great tool, but letdown since the announcement of the buyback by FB - laetSgo

will I see this post in my "best of week" email from FF? - Kirill Bolgarov

If Facebook is going to get fixed, please remember that it needs fixing politically, not just technically. It needs to give people the option to open their data to Google - for instance. A walled garden where the walls are fixed in place sucks. - Tim Tyler

@Paul, or perhaps an Alien will erupt forth from its stomach? (kidding, kidding!) - j1m

Robert Scoble

Is a Twitter retweet or a Facebook/FriendFeed "like" better. My answer my surprise you:

August 3 - Comment - Like - Share

kensuke, Iván Abrego, Mitchell Tsai and 63 other people liked this

The retweet is better. Why? - Robert Scoble

82 more comments

1. The retweet shows up as a top level item here in FriendFeed. Which gets you more branding. - Robert Scoble

Yes, but your tweet got me to FriendFeed for the first time in months. So now I'm totally confused. - Jennifer Leggio

Facebooks like system is pointless. - Simon Wicks

2. A retweet usually gets retweeted, a lot. I retweeted a guy this morning saying that Eric Schmidt had resigned from Apple's board. That got retweeted a lot. - Robert Scoble

Likes, just "bump" content, while a retweet duplicates the content and potentially gets shared several times. - Rob Diana

I like retweet better. But if facebook had a dislike button, I would be equally happy! - Dakota O'Neill

like is only promoting to shared friends where are retweet is promoting to everyone. No? - Edwin Khodabakchian

3. A retweet gets you credit, while "likes" just get you buried and no one is sure why they got lots of engagement. - Robert Scoble

Facebook is a joke. Like on friendfeed is pretty simple too. A retweet say a lot about your content but I think generating an actual discussion in friendfeed is the most powerful - Johnny

The retweet also directly acknowledges the original author, building relationship. FF Likes on Twitter have no such attribution. - Peter Kelley

Johnny: A retweet will get more conversation going and get you branded more than clicking like will. - Robert Scoble

That said, I love likes. You can check my likes out at http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei... -- that's something that's hard to do with a retweet. I've done 21,000 likes so far. I don't know of a way to count how many retweets I've done. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I agree. I was saying that generating a conversation (like this one) is more powerful than likes and retweets. - Johnny

Retweet overall but both have benefits - Travis Tasset from iPhone

I think that you're right, Robert. The Twitter retweet is better because there's some action behind it. In my opinion, the Facebook "like" feature really doesn't do much. It's more of a placebo than anything. Facebook's like is just a "slap on the wrist" letting the author know that it's "approved" by other people who come to the site. There's no reward for getting the most "likes" - it's like Digg but more retarded and something you wish you could euthanize already. - Kenneth

A like is just FB's way of trying to copy twitter and facebook, but I guess google reader has the same thing now - Billy Fung

Also, here, likes can be used to search. You can tell FriendFeed's search engine "show me all items about Google that Scoble has liked." - Robert Scoble

I think likes are great, but FriendFeed should also work on its presentation of reshares. I'd extend the datamodel to support an optional "originating item" for each item. The text (via: [url]) looks a bit messy. - Meryn Stol

your #1 reason for why RT is better than something is because it ends up in friendfeed??? not much of an incentive for the ~44 million twitter users really, is it? - Jeremy Toeman

With a retweet, it can be shared with multiple friends across MULTIPLE networks - my tweets can be posted onto Twitter, FriendFeed and even Facebook. Where does the Facebook "like" come into play? No where! Tweet away! - Kenneth

Exactly my thoughts too Meryn. Twitter should implement that as well. The original source gets lost after a couple of RTs. - Sumanth Kolar

Kenneth: you can send your likes on FF to Twitter, I do - Peter Kelley

Too much noise on Facebook, I still keep RTs in high regard. - Amy Chorew

Jeremy: a large percentage of my Facebook friends are sending their Tweets over there. Facebook has a similar liking system. I guarantee you that there's more than 44 million on Facebook (last number I heard was 250 million). And I'm getting WAY MORE engagement here on FriendFeed than I am on Twitter. - Robert Scoble

Twitter's reach is the key -- added to FriendFeed's real-time conversation, it's a powerful combo. Facebook is still too much of a walled garden. - Don Tamihere

Peter: good point. I think I was dragging on Facebook's "like" and not FF. Now if you want to compare FriendFeed's likes with Facebook's...that's another can of worms I don't wanna go into. - Kenneth

The database guy in me (my left elbow) is screaming that re-tweets duplicate data in a way that isn't easy to track. The social effects are nice, but can't this be replicated in a way that's a lot cleaner and more useful? - Ryan Massie

but ya said friendfeed, not facebook. :) - Jeremy Toeman

Jeremy: read the headline again. I specifically mentioned Facebook. And, anyway, we're all here on FriendFeed. How did THAT happen? - Robert Scoble

well i came here because i wanted to see what you were up to and since you don't blog anymore... ;) - Jeremy Toeman

Jeremy: heh, why blog when I can have engagement with you here? - Robert Scoble

RT as it feels like more of a commitment to the content rather than a passive vote - Daniel W. Rasmus

because you need to keep up your overall internet presence. doing it here is not in your best interests. IMHO that is. :) - Jeremy Toeman

On a side note: currently Google Reader "likes" are worthless as you can´t even subscribe to someone else´s like-stream. It´s even hard to find a way to see your own like-stream in Google Reader (although there /are/ at least 4 ways...) - peter huesken

Yeah, duh, likes aren't viral! - James Watters

Re-Tweets have this very natural word-of-mouth feel, but I'm concerned that you loose metadata by doing it the way twitter does. Instead of taking the firehose data to re-assemble this metadata after the fact, shouldn't the platform build the metadata as part of the process? I'm not saying that the word-of-mouth feel should go away by any means, but how accurate are the re-tweet counts that I have been seeing on sites recently? - Ryan Massie

James: They're more viral on FriendFeed due to the friend-of-a-friend views than they are on Facebook. But you're right, it's nothing like twitter. - Ryan Massie

Also Re-Tweeting has another problem: How do you retweet a tweet of more than 133 chars without paraphrasing at least part of it? - peter huesken

FriendFeed Likes are much more elegant than a retweet - the Grey Poupon of SM. :) - Nick in Manila

Why does one have to be "better" than the other? They are two different apps for sharing thoughts about content. The RT works well on Twitter, you just RT anything you like (and feel other might find interesting). When you like someone's content on FB, you give it a vote and everyone who is a friend can see it. If you want to add a comment you comment. If you want to share it, you use the share function. Now you can share tweets RTs on Facebook anyway, I'm not sure why it even matters which is better. - nicky jameson

A retweet takes more time to do and shows more interest. - Randy Allen Bishop

This is wrong. A retweet is copying someone's work and trying to drive traffic towards yourself using it. A like and/or a comment is much better as you are acknowledging the work of the author. Retweeting is parasitic. Liking is symbiotic. - Alex Scoble

Alex: that's interesting. As a content owner I'd rather you retweet, though. Why? Gets my ideas greater distribution. - Robert Scoble

What Randy said. A "like" means different things to different people. To me it might mean, "the title of this sounds good, the topic interests me, but I don't have time to read it." I would "Like" something like that, but I would *never* retweet something without visiting the link first and at least scanning it, preferably reading the whole thing. Also, Alex, I don't think a retweet is an attempt to drive traffic towards yourself. How do you figure? - Laura Norvig

Because when people see the retweet they are seeing what you wrote. It's the same as if I copied a blog post from Robert and put it on my blog with attribution to him. I'm doing this to get people to read my blog, I'm not doing it to help him. If I really wanted to help him, I would link to his blog post and write something about why I agree or disagree with that. A retweet is parasitic... more... - Alex Scoble

Alex: first of all, nothing you write in 140 characters is going to have much value, and certainly won't be enough value to charge for it. Second of all, if you RT: properly you also link to the source person or URL. Third of all, it's nothing even close to copying an entire blog post, but that really is sweet that you think Tweeting is blogging. They both have the same attributes, I... more... - Robert Scoble

RT's on Twitter are more manual and take a little more engagement then Like unless you are using SW to manage your tweets - RT duplicates... - Robert Freeze

Alex, your logic is twisted, no? RT is intended to share with your followers something someone else said or found, who they might not already be following. If traffic is driving anywhere it's to them; those reading your RT are already following you. Your point also assumes everyone's playing the numbers game. - Jim Barry

@Scobleizer It looks like you RT % is 1.85, of total tweets. Data from: http://tweetstats.com/graphs... - David Damore

First off, I don't write in 140 characters, because I do all my posting from friendfeed. 140 character limit is whack, but that's another argument. Second, nothing about Twitter really builds participation. It's all about islands versus on friendfeed, which is why reposting (I hate the "tweet" non-word) is even necessary. The fact that it's necessary is a symptom of the problems of the... more... - Alex Scoble

They serve different purposes. FB/FF like is just a quick shared bookmark. Twitter has a Favorite option that's similar, but it's geared toward recall more so than sharing/recommending. Retweet is not even a built-in Twitter feature, but many Twitter apps have the feature and people use it to share/recommend other people's tweets. - Lawrence Liu from twhirl

Alex: if you visit my blog you'll notice that my like feed isn't showing up in the FriendFeed widget there, while my retweets are. That's a huge problem and one I don't know how to solve. - Robert Scoble

How about the share option in FF, then change the FWD: to RT? - Lee

I will like things here when I don't want to comment, but I hadn't thought of it as a proxy for RT. Now you have me thinking about forwarding my likes here twitter. - dthree

You could combine the feeds using Yahoo Pipes. It's a bit messy, but here's my combined posts, comments, and likes: http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes... - Ryan Massie

Isn't this just like a Scobelizer chat room? - Peter Mullen

I think I'm going to take the core of your question Robert and post it to my Facebook non-social media friends and see if they can even parse the question. I'd expect some funny "uh...what?" responses. - Elliott Ng

the like SHOULD be much better. this is a voting system. FF needs to help you filter content this way however. retweets just confuse things even more and create even more noise. FF should have default searches that are all your friends with 2+ likes...this is your personal best of the day. if FF does not make use of these advantages, then it will continue to muddle about. - lew

Here's why Robert and I disagree. He sees these spaces as primarily a marketing tool for building a brand and getting his media out to eyeballs. Reposts work great for that because it's like a ball thrown in to a room of mousetraps. I mostly want to have conversations and am here for fun. Reposts suck for that because they fragment conversations. I don't like that...AT all. :) That's why both services can coexist. - Alex Scoble

++ Alex... services like this don't succeed because they are good marketing platforms, they succeed because regular people like to use them. - LogEx

as soon as we have threaded conversations on twitter, i suspect you will hate conversation being distributed on duplicates (retweets). My vote is for likes on ff. - Sajida H Khan

when i like something it gets tweeted... so it's like a retweet for friendfeed content... it doesn't come back over here as my own, but that's okay with me - Chris Heath

The ReTweet is -sometimes- better as it keeps track of the last RTers. - Thierry R. Andriamirado

Once again, FriendFeed and Twitter are complementary: it's better when a FF 'like' is ReTweeted again and again. Facebook's like.. huh.. it's.. different (?) - Thierry R. Andriamirado

Retweeting on twitter is equlivent to "share" on friendfeed. Retweet and like are uncomparable, in the same way that twitter's favorite and ff's like are uncomparable. - Andy Bakun from Android

the spammers are here - how do we report the guy above? - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Taken care of - boom! Like That! - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Robert, I think you're completely wrong. FriendFeed ranking is poo. A retweet is mostly poo --- depends on the context of your Twitter experience, and your POV. Is your POV "Is it better to BE retweeted? Or liked as a status update on FaceBook" ? or "Is it better to retweet someone ELSE'S Tweet or to Like someone else's FaceBook update?" I'd argue in both cases, the retweet sucks.... more... - Gib

Gib: where do you get the poo from? Sigh. - Robert Scoble

Robert: OMG! you're like the fasted gun in the west! By poo I mean, as a person without your scaling issues, if someone Retweets any random Tweet of mine, I'm like, "huh? THAT'S what you want to repeat to your following?" For mortals, viral stuff isn't everyday occurrence. On the other hand, as a mortal, on FaceBook, when a few people like a photo or update or comment, my other friends... more... - Gib

I agree with Andy that a Twitter retweet is more like a FF share than a like. "Retweet", in my opinion, is simply Twitter-speak for "share". - Dennis Jernberg

On the moment itself an RT is better, but a 'like' has a longer life, since it can be used in FF search queries. - nooble

RT was a community generated method, and can easily be done in friendfeed or facebook - Mark Essel from iPhone

I think we can expect Google Reader and Facebook, among others, to emulate FriendFeed's useful "Like" system in more ways, including likes in feeds, as a search filter, etc. SOON. - Ryan Sholin

+Alex. I agree much more with his sentiments than Robert's; likes are a much better way of showing appreciation for a post. 1. I don't care about building my brand. 2. Why wouldn't likes propagate just as well as RTs? They both show up in my FF stream. 3. See 1. Don't worry, Robert will come around eventually, just like he did with following people on Twitter. - Niklas Morberg

I guess I'm against the grain on the RT versus Like feature. I don't hate RT but I think they can become Spam noise in some ways. If you follow several people who follow the same people, you get an endless flow of the same tweet for a while with no extra value. Whereas a "Like" (in FriendFeed) bumps the conversation back into many peoples focus. In both FF and FB, the "like" also tags it to your attention when future comments are made. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

If you use Feedly in Conjunction with Retweets and Tweets you can kind of follow your Karma and get feedback on how they are dynamic and changing - Robert Higgins

RTs are better so I can continue to play with extracting valuable trends from them on my little experiment http://www.retweetradar.com! - Ben Hedrington

We all know Twitter is the front-end & FriendFeed is the back-end ;) Hype builds quicker on Twitter, FriendFeed hosts the discussion. - CannonGod

You can add ur own opinion on a RT if space permits. with ff its commenting and liking which are 2 different things. U can comment and not 'like' the post. - Freddie Benjamin

Very good point Freddie but that usually gives you no room when you include the "RT @username" or the new person alters the original tweet (I hate this). RT is to Like as @ reply is to commenting. Both serve close to the same purpose but work very different. FF's direction keeps everything tighter coupled while Twitter is very loosely coupled in the approach. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

This one is worth a retweet in itself: That said, I love likes. You can check my likes out at http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei... -- that's something that's hard to do with a retweet. I've done 21,000 likes so far. I don't know of a way to count how many retweets I've done. - Robert Scoble - Riaz Kanani

Facebook is closed, essentially, as I will always only ever see a "like" from either someone who is already my friend or a friend of a friend. Twitter is open, in that when someone I'm following retweets (from either someone they're following --- a 1st gen RT --- or a 2nd/3rd gen RT of someone they're following is also following or exposed to...whew!...) well, then I am exposed to a... more... - Thom Kennon

Jay Rosen

This is major. I mean as a sign. Jose Antonio Vargas Leaves The Washington Post for The Huffington Post http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...

July 21 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Rowley, Michael Markman, Nicholas James and 22 other people liked this

This may be a bigger sign that the Post is in trouble than the multiple rounds of buyouts. If their top talent keeps defecting to the Web, they are done. - Josette Torres

17 more comments

Wait, I thought blogging was dead... :) - Cyndi ~ @muchmorethanmom

I hope everybody noticed this information was published in The New York Times. I think the only thing it shows is that online news outlets are gaining a bigger market share. Don't jump on the 'newspapers are dead' bandwagon just yet. Yes, WAPO is in trouble, but it ain't over yet. Remember, there are also bloggers who have made the jump to newspapers where they write an online and print column. - Ian Paul

Isn't that the reason your blogger in this instance, which is me, writes "this is major," but doesn't add, "newspapers are sooooo dead...?" Isn't linking to the New York Times a way of showing: the New York Times has the story? Isn't not hyping a way of avoiding hype? The people you are warning against totalizing conclusions; were they insufficiently warned by the post itself, perhaps? Maybe they were. This is major, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN NEWSPAPERS ARE DEAD, OK? I guess I could try it.... - Jay Rosen

How about "journalism is no longer defined by its medium; newspapers are losing ground to substitutes"? Far more interesting to track the shifts than to sit around waiting for the day that Medium X dies so we can all have a party. - Daniel J. Pritchett

I happen to know this reporter. He is the one of the most talented young reporters I have met. He is also web literate in a way the organization as a whole is not. He helped them enormously in their coverage of politics. He's not just a rising star, but a reporter whose knowledge is strategically vital to the Washington Post. If you want to retain anyone, it is someone like Jose. And the fact that he sees more opportunity with new media than jumping laterally is a sign. The talent is talking. - Jay Rosen

yes.. this is like the "tipping point" - in occurence.. the shift from main stream media into new media is happening ! - Peter Dawson

In a technology company are there not certain developers whose walk out the door would be a clear sign? (Even though it's not like the company is going to fall apart from a single defection....) He is in that category, in my judgment. My Twitter shorthand for that: "This is major. I mean as a sign." - Jay Rosen

Luckily, on FriendFeed Twitter shorthand can be turned into slightly longer hand. I see what you're saying. So you are localizing this occurence to WaPo woe? So let's ask the other question: is WaPo on the road to extinction? They've had some desperate ideas lately: http://onthemedia.org/transcr... - Ian Paul

I _so_ like the ability on FF to blow through the 140 char boundary and actually let people get a full thought out. This discussion is enlightening from both sides (Ian and Jay), but I think it would basically be impossible on Twitter. - Ken Kennedy

And yes, Jay, it's DEFINITELY true that when certain developers leave tech companies, it's a sign. Excellent analogy. - Ken Kennedy

It tells you something about how badly the Washington Post is struggling not just in making money but persuading the creative young people to work for it. (I know of other cases in this category: Chris Hughes types in journalism.) It also tells you something about the Huffington Post's rise to "in the same category as..." At least for the generation that Jose is part of. He would know the relative reach of those two sites; as a beat reporter he'd be on top of that. Another reason I say a sign. - Jay Rosen

Hold on here. I don't mean to be bashing heads over new media vs old media. In fact I'm a new media type myself (I write blog posts and other articles for PC World). BUT I am hesitant to say that newspapers are dying, which was the direction this conversation seemed to be headed (not that you were driving it there Jay). I agree the HuffPo is rising in its influence, but on a par with the institution that gave us Watergate? It could get there, but I don't think it's there yet. - Ian Paul

Didn't say that. I said for Jose it's par enough, and that is a sign. - Jay Rosen

Also, if you followed me on the Froomkin kissoff http://tr.im/pTFS where the "print guys" won, and you put that together with this.... do the math. Froomkin was another guy who was helping them enormously online, specifically with the newspaper mindset adaptation puzzle. - Jay Rosen

That pattern ("print guys" winning tactically, to lose strategically) does seem to be shaping up. - Ken Kennedy

@Jay , then would you agree that the old school thought vs new school thought process is tipping ? Print media is losinig grounds to the new media plus they are sturuggling to retain talent , thereby effecting the bottom line in short ? - Peter Dawson

So are we looking at a future where newspapers and other old media surrender to online pubs? Creative destruction as it were? Or are we looking at some sort of implicit power-sharing agreement between the two forms of media? Or will old media be forced to adapt the methods of the new? Or some other media phenomenon? - Ian Paul

Jose on Twitter: seem 2 have stunned some peeps with this move: http://tinyurl.com/nz66aq. to me, there is no new media v old media. only good journalism. https://twitter.com/joseisw... - Jay Rosen

Robert Scoble

Interesting, Mike Arrington deleted the TechCrunch account on friendfeed. My additional thoughts are on mobs and this here:

June 7 - Comment - Like - Share

Liviu Barbat, Gordon Saunders, Simone Lovati and 181 other people liked this

be right back with more. - Robert Scoble

773 more comments

That makes me sad because it was my favorite tech blog to click "like" on. I talked with Mike this morning at an event and he said last night was one of the worst he's ever lived through with the amount of hatred aimed at him. He deleted 600 Techcrunch comments, too, he told me. - Robert Scoble

Wow, interesting. - Kevin Whalen

Some of the comments I've seen on both sides of the aisle are pretty damn repugnant. I've had that kind of stuff aimed at me in the past and it's never fun. - Robert Scoble

he pissed off Leo's hardcore fans - David Lloyd

wow, deleted the tc account. Scoble: what do you think are going to be the long term implications of this? - ming yeow

It just goes to show that people love to pay attention to negative things, but rarely to positives, or when people make efforts to make up for past misgivings. Sad, but human nature. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Funny, I remember helping push a mob against some people I really didn't like and a friend really ripped into me for doing that. My friend was right, of course. Interesting that not many people are speaking up against the kinds of comments (aimed personally, not at the substance of what happened). I want to be counted as one of those who stood up personally against the kind of comments I've seen. - Robert Scoble

600 hateful comments? Puts a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. Have had the occasional hate comments but never to that extent - David Weedmark

I didn't dig into those treads too much but imagine they got pretty nasty, probably more so on digg. too bad though, i used FF to find lots of TC content - sean percival

Mark: and Leo should call them back and tell them shame. The kinds of things I've seen against Mike (and some against Leo too) are just awful. People saying that Mike should get cancer and die and worse. - Robert Scoble

That seems weird.. Why would anyone delete an account on FF. Were they a lot of hateful comments posted to his account? - Bindu Reddy

thats fucked up Robert. - David Lloyd

David: Given the number of people who hate Arrington's guts, 600 doesn't seem too bad. Just one person harassing you over a period of years over the net (as I've had) is much worse than 600 random people digging at you once and then going away. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Very strange... Was it hacked? - Hugo Romano

But don't you think due to a LOT of pent up frustration against Mike? His attitude has always been a point of contentment amongst lots of people i know. - ming yeow

Bindu: Mike is actually a pretty sensitive guy beneath a lot of bluster. I'm to blame for pushing the friendfeeders to poke at Mike. - Robert Scoble

ming: there's some of that that's Mike's fault too. But when mobs happen they always go overboard. - Robert Scoble

SCOBLE: I was the one who posted the video on youtube (MPB326) that everyone has been linking to and I have gotten the 700+ comments to my email account. I can't believe some of the stupid things people are saying on YouTube. Terrible stuff! I was actually thinking about deleting the video. - Mike Bracco

Sorry but he shouldn't have deleted his FF account. He should have stayed the storm. I think what he said to Leo was out of line, but to receive the vitriol he has is unnecessary. I think he deserves criticism, but not cancer threats. - kenneth glenn

Yeah that's really screwed up. If those people want to get pissed off at something, come to a third world country and take a gander at all the "real" abuses people do. Talk about making you sick ... - Nick in Manila

scobe: roger that. I like leo a lot, but that seemed to be an overreaction by him. then the mobs wayyyy over reacted - ming yeow

ming: and go far further than the problem that incited them in the first place. And Mike rarely gets personal, as far as I have seen, even when his barbs are aimed at something I've done. - Robert Scoble

Mike acts like a dick. Then again, so do I. I used to have a hate-on for him myself until I realized that really, he's a lot like me... Ballsy and annoying on the outside, but a real human with real feelings on the inside. I'm not afraid to call him a jerk to his face, but that's his behaviour I'm commenting on, not him personally. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I don't get why people feel so compelled to fling poo at Michael. He says contentious things, has strong opinions, and sometimes screws up...that makes him human and reasonably interesting. I think that is a good thing. - Neal Jansons

Chris: we're all dicks once in a while. I think that's part of being human. Far as I know there's only one perfect human who has walked on the earth and I bet even he wasn't perfect if we actually could get to know him. - Robert Scoble

Neal: Everyone loves taking everyone else down a notch or two. Primate dominance games. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mike it would be better to post the follow up video on youtube. It was an interesting conversation and would help put everything into context. - Benjamin Taylor

Neal: Chris nailed it. We love building people up and then dragging them down. I told Mike that whenever I've gotten a shit storm to form it's been when I've been at my most interesting. - Robert Scoble

Benjamin - yeah I wish I also captured the conversation a little while after between Arrington and Leo where they talked it out. - Mike Bracco

This is sad - Johni Fisher

Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does. - Robert Scoble

Leo has this massive army of supporters, and many more who probably found the clip and came to support him. These weren't neutral third parties giving their honest opinion on the incident, they were Leo supporters through and through. I can't blame him for deleting the account, because I was reading the comments, and they were tough. - Colin

I'm really surprised that Mike still, after all the crap he gets, feels hurt from these comments by people. But last night he and Leo were both discussing how these comments about "mike should die" are not from reasonable, of right mind people. I'm sad that he takes those comments to heart. And I'm sad that trolls thrive in this place (the internet) I love. - Lise

Has Leo said anything to his supporters about their attacks on Mike since yesterday, by the way? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

As much as we all may like and respect Arrington, it just seems as if he was trying to create news at Leo's expense. - Stuart Tracte

Chris, Robert: I know, but Mike is center of poo-flinging more often than most, and he got freaking SPIT on and had his family threatened last year. It just amazes me, and honestly, each snafu just makes me more sympathetic with him personally (I still sometimes disagree with him, professionally, of course, but that is just the biz). - Neal Jansons from IM

Colin: yeah, and Leo should have spoken to his audience and told them to stay professional. But that will come back to Leo someday. These things always do, which is why my friend was correct when he told me never to push a mob. - Robert Scoble

I missed TWiT so I don't know if Leo brought it up or not during the show, but I hope he took an opportunity to tell others that its not their place to fight Mike on Leo's behalf. Especially after they made up. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

But Robert, working your ass off isn't an excuse for behaving badly to people or acting the way arirngton has in the past. Hard work doesn't mean you get to be a jerk - David Lloyd

Neal: yeah, some people become larger than life and it makes people feel that it's OK to do pretty outrageous things against them. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He didn't. I'm not sure he's even aware of the comments Mike got. - Vlad Bobleanta

Leo said at the end of his TWIT feed that he "had trouble sleeping last night." Perhaps because of this brou-ha-ha? - Steve Burgess

Vlad: Thanks. That's a shame, I think it'd be really good for both sides if Leo did come out and say this to everyone. Even if he just recorded a short video clip and tossed it up, standalone. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Whatever either of them say at this point, it has gone beyond them and their ability to "do" anything - Susan Reynolds

Robert, Leo could have said "please stay professional" a thousand times but come on, this is the internet. Do trolls, who are always ready for a fight, listen to that? - Lise

Susan: Perhaps, but it would still help allow cooler minds and attitudes to prevail and in a shorter time than if they remain silent. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: I think Arrington would agree with you. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He brought the incident up, but didn't calm anyone down. Again, I'm not sure he's aware of what's been going on. - Vlad Bobleanta

Also, the Gillmor Gang section is gone: http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/ - Greg Byrne

i still post all my posts here. i can post the other TC ones if you guys want too. - MG Siegler

Chris, that's true, but there are still a vast army of followers who think they are in the right and just go off half cocked - and stay that way - Susan Reynolds

Lise: true too. - Vlad Bobleanta

Lise: probably not, but my friend's words ring true: to hold back mobs as much as possible. - Robert Scoble

This is 1. not a surprise & 2. mobs are not at the behest of the personalities they follow. They are mobs. Mobs glom onto some perceived raison d'etre and go. If Arrington, after all of his time pushing buttons and twisting tits, is surprised by this, well, he's a whole hell of a lot dumber than he ever gets credit for being. - Dave Martin

Leo and Steve had a big fight last night: bottom line is GG is off the twit network - David Lloyd

MG: that would be cool. Techcrunch was my #1 most "liked" feed here on friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

People saying stupid things in comments? This is nothing new. Sometimes you just don't want to deal with it anymore. - Dean Clark

perhaps someone could set up an acocunt that will link to TC articles as they are posted in real time - David Lloyd

Susan: "Madness is rare in individuals--but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I hope he recreates it. - Johnny Worthington

Dave: I don't think he's surprised by it, just shocked at how bad it's gotten. - Robert Scoble

Perhaps someone could write a piece detailing the mob situation, defending Arrington, and encouraging him to come back, maybe this is it. - Colin

Dave Martin: I get why he's surprised. There's always a disconnect between someone like him and the so called community, and also there's always a mob waiting to be formed. - Vlad Bobleanta

Not all of those comments were hateful. he pissed me off more when he deleted mine. I pointed out what he said and then opined that I didn't think it was enough and he deleted this: http://ff.im/3FDfA - Jimminy Fuller

Big names, little names, it's still hard to see hateful things aimed your way. Intellectually most of us understand, but emotions sometimes get in the way even to the big fish - Susan Reynolds

wtf happened? i missed it and am sorry whatever came to this has come to this. - jeneane sessum

Chris: good quote! My history teacher in College simplified that to "the masses are asses." - Robert Scoble

Maybe he is just shocked that not only Leo's community attacked him but also his "loyal" techcrunch community gave him a bashing - David Lloyd

Robert, I see your point, but I don't need to be told to refrain from attacking someone. I saw what happened. I wish Leo hadn't gotten *so* angry but I respect that he feels passionately. He was defending his integrity. So that I respect. I respect Mike for handling it all so well and not throwing F bombs back. And I love Leo. But I wasn't going to curse Mike or wish death upon him. So those that did, there's no changing them. - Lise

Jeneane: Mike and Leo got into it on Gillmor Gang yesterday. There's a whole thread about that. - Robert Scoble

Not sure how taking TC off FF relates to the problems Arrington was having in comments on his blog. ? - Nick in Manila

TechCrunch Question: I noticed that my comments on FF for TechCrunch articles also appeared as part of TC's comments on their site. Is that part of FF API? - Mike Bracco

Nick: the most hostile comments were in FF comments - David Lloyd

Jeneane: http://friendfeed.com/twit-co... - Vlad Bobleanta

Mark: Aha. - Nick in Manila

oh jeez. thx robert. i'm sorry to hear that. sounds like the chorus got active. - thanks for the link Vlad. had no idea. - jeneane sessum

Mike: You can import FF comments onto Wordpress posts via a plugin - Nicholas James

Lise: good point, but I've learned that if leaders call on their followers to behave appropriately then they usually do. I don't want anyone who calls for someone else to get cancer to read me, by the way. I am here to have great conversations about tech. Keep it on the tech and we'll have a great time. - Robert Scoble

Lise, Robert, the hateful comments say more about the idiots who write them than about the two personalities about which the angry words swirl - Susan Reynolds

Nick: death threats etc - David Lloyd

Lise: There are those who were ready to tear Arrington to shreds, at least until the mutual apologies of him and Leo came out on TechCrunch. At least, I can't believe I'm the only one who felt like that. Some angry people can be assauged. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: Not sure I agree. The Youtube comments are terrible. - Mike Bracco

it's difficult to be surprised by the size of this reaction.like it or not, you guys are celebrities. - Stuart Tracte

Mike: no, Techcrunch had a Wordpress Plugin that was doing that. That Plugin has been removed, too. - Robert Scoble

Colin: I think the general flip-out crazy needs to be addressed, but it needs to be by an A-lister so everyone sees it. The whole way these things are happening makes the whole industry look insane and unprofessional. - Neal Jansons from IM

Stuart: The size, yes. The venom of it, though? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

shouldnt be too hard to make an unofficial ff account for techcrunch posts - David Lloyd

someone wanna go do it? - David Lloyd

Stuart: that's the thing. We're also people and Mike is sensitive like the rest of us (even if he has built a persona that shows him as above it all). - Robert Scoble

Mark: Surprised if someone hasn't already beaten us all to it. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: I'd rather not do that. I'd rather someone at Techcrunch does that. - Robert Scoble

There are a few existing TC accounts from their feed. - Benjamin Taylor

Scoble's made the point that FF has structural features to control that kind of stuff. Guess it was overwhelmed. - Nick in Manila

Chris C, so you were one of the ones wishing death upon Mike until he apologized? - Lise

well im sure if Arrington took it down, it is probably TC policy not to have FF account, his other writers wont make one - David Lloyd

Fanboys are going to follow whatever lead they're directed. If Leo had said that Mike had terrible BO, there'd be thousands of Leo disciples telling Arrington to get himself some deodorant. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. - Jay Caruso

hows this http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Leo is well-spoken, he makes things sound good, he's a well-known likeable guy, and he was the one on video, that's a lot of things going for him if you ignore everything else that's going on, and people do. Just mob mentality and drive-by commenting. - Colin

Behind every great character there is a real person. I just hope that the more rational people currently participating in the mob realize this and understand what they're doing before they do anything worse. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Nick: well, yes. I wish we could have a team feed from Techcrunch. - Robert Scoble

I still like Mike and don't think he should have deleted the TC account. I enjoy the TC posts but find that Mike and Erick tend to get to a point that makes me want to stop reading their stuff, and I won't for a few days. - Jimminy Fuller

Just create a public standard feed/group (owner controls posts, anyone can comnent), and import TC from twitter/RSS/whatever. - Ken Kennedy

Lise: Not wishing death, but I certainly would have given him shit and got up in his face if I had the chance. I don't fight (often) but I do relish giving hell to people. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Done: http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Jay, that's not true. I am a huge Leo fangirl but I also think for myself. - Lise

The people who were commenting took it too far - Mike Appologised. Leo Appologised. That should have been it although Leo's fans just tried to continue to call mike for no reason. - Nicholas James

Jack, subscribed. - Robert Scoble

Lise, it wasn't a blanket statement. I've been a fan of Leo's since the old Tech TV days. Just saying that some will take it too far and it all it takes is the person to open that door a crack. - Jay Caruso

Thanks, Jacky boy x - David Lloyd

Thanks Jack! - Nicholas James

Thanks, Jack! - Neal Jansons from IM

Robert, is there anything else that needs doing? I think I got it right - Jack

Wait... is Jack affiliated with Techcrunch? Why not have MG do this? He offered. - Ken Sheppardson

Nicholas: At this point I'd probably be calling Arrington to tell him to not take it too personally, that mobs are really just sheep with pointy teeth. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

FF is a focus group in many ways. Sad commentary IMHO. - Eric Logan

Jack, Robert: MG can handle this. He writes for Techcrunch. How 'bout we not squat on their brand? - Ken Sheppardson

Chris C, exactly. You just said, you relish giving people hell. You're always ready for a fight. I, on the other hand, am not. And I looked at this situation and considered both sides, despite being a huge Leo fan and not knowing many details on Mike (other than he pisses people off) - Lise

Is there really much more discussion about this? What is done is done. It's already in the past & let's move on. No one knows how this will affect Leo in the future if at all. - Jason Hansen

Want to know what else happened? A single moderator in Leo's IRC chat room muted the entire channel, causing the mob to spill into FriendFeed. - Colin

When I first was diagnosed w/ cancer and the twitter community started the frozen pea fund to donate to cancer research, Mike and Robert were among the first to write about it. As I see it, they both keep a human touch to the community no matter how popular the following. I appreciate that and so maybe its easier for me to see past some of the things that upset the crowds. - Susan Reynolds

I'm not affiliated in any way with TC - Jack

are you okay now Susan ? xxx - David Lloyd

Lise: anyone who does interesting things in media is going to piss someone off. Even me, I try to take reasonable positions and do my homework, but I have lots of haters out there too. It's unavoidable. - Robert Scoble

Jason, I think there is. Considering Mike deleted his account and the GG site no longer exists on techcrunch. I feel bad for Mike and Steve. - Lise

OK, if he asks - Jack

Eric - true - ff as focus group - Susan Reynolds

Why do you feel bad for Mike & Steve? - Jason Hansen

Lise: Steve deleted the GG page, if I heard that correct. It will be interesting to see how the Gillmor Gang goes forward from here. - Robert Scoble

Robert, no I get that. But that's my point. I know Mike is capable of that. And I'm way more of a Leo fangirl. Yet I wasn't with my fist in the air yelling "fight!" - Lise

Mark - thanks for asking. Not OK but very supported by the best of the net - Susan Reynolds

Basically the only 2 people who should have been involved was Mike and Leo. They both appologised - the mob tried to get involved and call Mike for no reason - I mean after both of them appologising to each other that should have been it - people took it too far with some of the comments I saw yesterday. - Nicholas James

Because Steve realized his show isn't really his show. And Mike got hell when he didn't even give Leo that much shit to begin with. - Lise

ROBERT: oops caps, I do know Leo and Steve had a fight last night and its not gonna be on TWiT anymore x - David Lloyd

You know, my main issue with what happened yesterday, is that it was an ego clash. And just that. Funny that in the make-up part Leo kept insisting that he'd like more content on GG and less drama, an hour or two after he himself caused a helluva lot of drama. I do love Leo and watch all of his shows, but yesterday he was overreacting. And I think he figured that out in the mean time.... more... - Vlad Bobleanta

If the mob is acting "in Leo's name", then I think Leo should try and tell them that they're certainly not acting with his permission or blessings. That they should disband and stop attacking Mike. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Steve still seems like he's trying to throw his weight around and try to be in complete control of the show. He needs to remember its not just about him - its about the audience - something he said he didn't care about yesterday - Nicholas James

My impression is the guy went over tipping point for the kind of character he was putting out there, at some point people are going to say enough is enough. - Ian Wright

Nicholas: the show used to be private, Im not sure Steve cares that much about the audience - David Lloyd

Live by the sword... - Ian Wright

Vlad, it was the final straw for Leo. He had said before that Mike was becoming too trollish during the GG show. And when he felt like Mike was about to attack his integrity, well, he blew up. Unfortunately. - Lise

gillmor gang is going to be nothing more than a conference call :-( - Tobias Lewsadder

Nicholas: Steve cares about the audience more than he lets on. He knows that by making things interesting he's doing right by the audience. That doesn't mean, though, that you kowtow to the audience. - Robert Scoble

Tobias: heheh, in the real time world? THAT I would have to see! - Robert Scoble

Isn't that your opinion Robert? - Jason Hansen

I watched the whole thing unfold last night including the after show and it was clear that Mike Arrington spoke before he thought and didn't mean it to come out like people including Leo took it. I am glad that they both cooled down and realized it was a simple mis communication. Its too bad the crowd can't do the same. Mike Arrington may be a pain in the butt but pain in the butts are interesting. - Kim Landwehr

Jason, sorry, lost context. This is all my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else other than me. - Robert Scoble

Kim: bing! - Robert Scoble

"Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does." Doesn't make his insinuations right. I work hard and couldn't do what he does probably - but that doesn't mean he can act like a jerk - repeatedly according to some. - Mark Outten

I'm pretty sure the Techcrunch <-> Friendfeed comment sync was disabled a few days ago. Not sure it had anything to do with the dust-up yesterday. - Ken Sheppardson

Lise: I know why it happened. I understand that was building inside Leo over time. I get that. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert, that really bugged me that Steve said he didn't care about the community. But I agree, he cares greatly about the show and the community. He wouldn't have been so hurt if he didn't. - Lise

i was blown away by the second episode of gg. it almost seemed like arrington was torn by who he had turned into, at least the negativity that resides within hm. - Tobias Lewsadder

It's probably just the mob he's upset with Lise. - Colin

I also agree with Kim. I enjoyed watching GG at 6:00 PM during the last hour of shift at work. I would still watch it as well as TWiT. - Jason Hansen

He was hurt by some of the comments, he also blamed Dave Winer for alot of problems - David Lloyd

Mark: who said he's a jerk? Sometimes we're all jerks. And, anyway, when he's being a jerk he usually is keeping it on the story. Not personal. He's taken lots of shots at me but has NEVER said that I should get cancer and die. That's unacceptable. - Robert Scoble

Vlad, okay and I agree with you that Mike should blow those comments off. I'm shocked he hasn't grown a thicken skin - Lise

I think that if anyone bothered to read the Techcrunch appology and watch/listen to the 2nd Gillmor Gang yesterday they'd know the full story. The mob listened to the 1st Gillmor Gang only and drew their conclusions - some of that mob didn't even listen to Gillmor Gang - they just jumped on the bandwagon like sheep especially as they saw like a 1 minute clip on Youtube summarising it. - Nicholas James

I don't know Arrington personally, all I can judge him from is his body of work with TechCrunch and it's top notch. Anyone who criticizes him in a vicious way needs to look in the mirror. A lot of those with the harsh words are probably typing it from their parents basement. I just hate when people rip other people with a pretext of being something else when it's really jealousy. - Mike Bracco

Lise: it's always easy to say people should have a thick skin until you're the one at the center of a mob getting kicked in the groin. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Mike: bing! - Robert Scoble

Steve Gillmor clearly stated that he doesn't care about the audience. And that's that for me, Robert. Lise: I can see Steve cares about the show, and especially his brand inside the show. About the audience, he said it better than I ever could. Please believe the man. - Vlad Bobleanta

I think the Steve-Leo conflict (which was briefly obvious on the show) got totally overshadowed and subsumed by the Leo-Mike issue. - Nick in Manila

Robert's comment exactly. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Robert, true. I know I couldn't handle it. - Lise

Robert: You like Microsoft's new search engine. ;) - Jason Hansen

Vlad: you aren't listening carefully. I heard what Steve said yesterday and totally understood what he was saying. You can't let the audience drive your product. Ask a Porsche owner what they want and they'll say "more trunk space, smoother ride, more leg room, etc." They just designed a Volvo. - Robert Scoble

Robert: 100% agreed. I do not want to be in Mike's position, ever. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: all of us in media care DEEPLY about the audience. If you hung around any of these people you'd know that we read every comment and take them very seriously. But the day you start listening to the audience and kowtowing to them is the day when you lose your way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How does the mob get its "justice" then? I have not seen the venomous postings you speak of, nor do I agree in any way that that is the way to go. So, how does this get resolved? I, like many, believe Leo was being "entrapped". How does Arrington get out of this with his reputation intact? He's done alot for all of us and definitely does not deserve the level of hatred you speak of, but something need to be done... - Stuart Tracte

Stuart: most of the nastiest stuff has been deleted. - Robert Scoble

Make a good product and the audience will find you. - Kim Landwehr

Side note: Do not try to converse on FF on an iphone.... had a whole paragraph written out.... and lost it... - Stuart Tracte

I think Arrington and Leo will come out of this fine, I'm already paying more attention to both of them. - Colin

Stuart: you should go and listen to the second show we did last night. Leo wasn't entraped. And he didn't have to react that way. When people question my ethics I answer them calmly. I get questioned on that all the time. - Robert Scoble

Every week someone asks me if I'm paid by friendfeed, for instance. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I am listening, and I get your point. I never got Steve's attitude, though. And I was just spinning what he said, I did get the underlying meaning. - Vlad Bobleanta

(I'm not). - Robert Scoble

Tonights FF homework: listen to the full GG show to become better informed http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

i was in the middle of typing a comment on tech crunch last night when mike shut down the comments, how sad. he mentioned having to have a police car parked in front of his house in the past for similar issues... that is wrong!!! - Tobias Lewsadder

SCOBLE: totally agree! true innovation can't come from what the "flock" is saying they want. True innovators are so because they create something that no-one knew they needed until it is created. - Mike Bracco

Vlad: Gillmor is an interesting person. I don't always get him either. - Robert Scoble

Honestly, I suspect that every person who got really pissed at @arrington over the years but had decided to ignore him went back and told him what they'd thought of him all along. He's ruined companies and products on the grandstand. I read his stuff like I watch fox news, for the truth far from the middle but for clues of what might be left out on the sunny side. - Shava Nerad

Robert, still. I am that community that Steve supposedly doesn't care about. And that's where I almost did pump my fist in the air. When Steve said he didn't care and Leo instantly said he *did* care. But... again, I feel bad for Steve, still. His issue was just loss of control over his baby (the show) - Lise

Colin: Professionally, sure! This isn't any kind of permanent damage to either of them. Personally, though, I know that it's got to hurt them both. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris, I think they're both tougher now. - Colin

Shava: He's made many hundreds of companies too. I don't know of a single one that was ruined by TechCrunch. Please back that statement up. - Robert Scoble

Colin: You'd be surprised. Often the people who seem to have the thickest skin on the outside are the most sensitive on the inside. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Does Leo know any of this, btw? I think he thinks this is all over with...considering he was joking about it all. I think he's embarrassed and trying to make light of it. But I don't think it's over, unfortunately. - Lise

Seriously everyone who did not listen to the 2nd show shouldn't even comment on it. Infact the problem should be over and done with it was a minor row which ended pretty quickly with both appologising to each other. That should be the end of it. Instead of people jumping on the bandwagon trying to call someone because he has a huge readership base and earns a nice amount of revenue from his blog - Nicholas James

still watching. - jeneane sessum

If they were ruined by TechCrunch then I'd have to call that company pretty lame. Remember PodTech? Mike pointed out a lack of leadership at the company. In hindsight Mike was right. - Robert Scoble

Chris, but that outer skin just got thicker lol, I dunno, I just think it has to be a big lesson to both of them, they'll remember it. - Colin

Lise: I don't know what Leo is seeing right now. I should call him and check in. - Robert Scoble

I don't know about Mike, but Leo was already making fun of the incident on TWIT, realized their was a slight overreaction on his part - Kim Landwehr

Colin: Yes, they'll remember it. But that outer skin is just their media personalities. You're ignoring the real people behind those names, and how they feel about it. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I don't even believe that Mike was about to question Leo's ethics. He was just upset that they didn't get a Pre. And wanted to make a point about how Palm selects reviewers. I never questioned Leo's integrity. Neither Mike's. I think they'd be really stupid to endanger their careers like that. Which settles it for me. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert: Will you pass him the link to this discussion? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I think yesterday was enough fanfare - I'm filing this in the "none of my business" stack - Bwana ☠ from IM

Wow...did not expect to learn this when I logged onto FriendFeed. - Ben Parr

Robert, you should. I hope they can work this out. It's definitely not smoothed over. Maybe between Mike and Leo but not all 3. - Lise

Vlad: you weren't hearing Mike. Please go listen to the second show. He made it very clear why he was asking those questions. Mike asks me all the time about my ethics. It's his way of digging for stories. - Robert Scoble

Bwana: But we need to know what every single person on FriendFeed thinks about the relationship between Leo, Mike, and Steve... did you miss the memo? - Ken Sheppardson

I'll say this again, but Leo's IRC chat was muted, and chatters spilled right onto FriendFeed. If you were reading the IRC chat at the time, it was 100% pro-Leo. Those people normally don't come on FriendFeed, but when they were muted, this was the first place they came to, because this is the 2nd largest chat Leo endorses. - Colin

Robert: That's his way of digging for stories... fine. However, is that something you would do to a respected friend? - Jason Hansen

Lise: that's true. Steve feels his show was stepped on needlessly. - Robert Scoble

Mmmyeah, Steve's issue was loss of control over the show. I get that. I've seen how awkward it was at times. But still. How old are these people again? - Vlad Bobleanta

Jason: All's fair in love and war... And in media. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Jason: in this business? Yes. I ask MYSELF all the time am I on the right side of the ethical line. And when someone is getting a goodie and I'm not, it sure does make me wonder WHY. - Robert Scoble

steve should host the show and he boot whomever he wants and not invite back guests he doesnt feel fit into gg. - Tobias Lewsadder

Tobias: I agree. Steve should be in charge of the off switch on his own show. - Robert Scoble

To run a show, you have to do what Leo does, you have to be able to control cameras and mics, and Steve really needs to get that kind of control, or Leo's operator needs to stay neutral, and out of it. - Colin

Tobias: Steve should take things offline for making the show, and then broadcast it afterwards, rather than doing it live. That might help reduce the bad attitudes it seems to bring out from its hosts and guests. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I do think Steve had a point, It is his show and Leo really didn't have the right to shut the show down, no matter how mad he was - Kim Landwehr

Robert: I would like to see the inner of the business for a week or two. It would be an interesting learning experience I'm sure. - Jason Hansen

Tobias: I think it was unprofessional for Leo to pull the off switch on someone else's show while on air. It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me if I were to host a show on his network. - Robert Scoble

out of interest. was leo, steve or arrington making money from GG? will this have business implications - Anthony Feint

Robert: It would depend if you pissed him off ;) - Nicholas James

Anthony: not yet, but whenever audiences get built around media properties there's always money involved eventually. - Robert Scoble

No Anthony, this was a Saturday, and people's free time. - Colin

Chris: Steve lives and breathes "live". - Nick in Manila

Nicholas: if I pissed someone off they should bite their lip and fire me after the show. That's professionalism. It also gives people a chance to explain themselves. When you're on air it's very difficult to discuss business in a professional way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How much time has Leo spent on the air over the past 10 years or so? How many incidents like this have their been? Seems like you might literally be blowing it out of proportion, re "It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me" - Ken Sheppardson

Robert: I saw the show yesterday. Yeah, I know, my point was more that he was using the ethical question to start off his 'story' about Palm sending review units. Which is exactly what he said in part 2 of the show, when you were on too. And it's exactly what you kinda said. So let's agree to agree, even if my phrasing isn't phenomenal right now :) - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert: I gotta agree with Ken's last statement. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I like Mike, I really do, and I respect him, but he has to take some responsibility. Its not what he says, its how he says it, that rubs people the wrong way - Stephen Pickering

Ken: that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities. - Robert Scoble

The interesting thing for me was that about a month ago, on another TWiT show, Leo expressed some negative sentiment about Arrington and the way he sort of "stir things up" to try to get responses out of people. It was on net@nite I believe. Anyway, that is the first thing I thought of when this happened yesterday. - Mike Bracco

so I guess we are that petty? such a waste of our attention. Lets get back to reading / listening / sharing. Hopefully Mike will consider friendfeed again down the road and shake off all the negative publicity/bad feelings about inciting Leo. - Mark Essel

but was leo giving free bandwidth to GG? - Anthony Feint

Chris: I was one of Leo's "Laporteans" and have been a friend of Leo's before I even had a blog. I love the guy. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: yes, but again, if you are going to fire someone in media, or shut down someone else's show, you should do that off air. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: but maybe that's just me. - Robert Scoble

I thought the comments towards Mike yesterday were overwhelmingly positive after they both apologized. I gained a new respect for Mike yesterday. - Jesse Stay

Robert "that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities" That's why i made it a point to say Leo would be better off Not "Hosting" the GG but being a Out of Studio Guest - Erle Stride

Mike B, exactly, he was ready to be attacked by Mike. He said it himself. So he went overboard. - Lise

As an outsider viewing the beginning of the show, my impression was that Leo lashed out as if their is some pent up frustration/anger towards Arrington. - Kevin Whalen

Scoble: Can't substantiate at the moment, so skip it as unsubstantiated, but I remember 2-3 times seeing what he said about something, and what others said, and thinking, he was just talking things down to be contrarian. It's like ValleyWag -- are you familiar with them? Thing is I rarely have read his stuff lately. I prefer constructive criticism over snark negativity, and that's the... more... - Shava Nerad

Anthony: I think Leo agrees there, too. He said he was wrong to shut down the show. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo shouldn't have stopped the whole show, after all it is Steve's show. However I can understand why he did. It seems to me he was never quite happy with GG on Twit from the beginning. Which is what he kinda admitted in part2. If the show were to stay on Twit, I think they should just get someone in the cottage to switch between cameras and stuff, and Leo should be a guest. In Steve's show. - Vlad Bobleanta

Shava: I've been on Valleywag more than 70 times. - Robert Scoble

I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. - Jack

Vlad: I agree, and I think so does Leo and Steve. - Robert Scoble

Kevin: Leo's talked about what he dislikes in Mike's persona before, but this is the first time things really came to a head. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Robert: yeah I agree to...im just wondering where the shows going to go. ITs going to lose a big audience. I only watched because it was on twit and techcrunch - Anthony Feint

squarespace sounds interesting (still listening) - does put #squarespace in your tweet still enter you in the contest? - jeneane sessum

Probably not a good idea to be a guest and be in control of a show at the same time. - Kim Landwehr

Really, he apologized, so shouldn't this be over if it's over between the two antagonists? But then this is the Internet. And yes, I figured you know Valleywag, but this is a general audience as well. A lot of folks don't overlap - Shava Nerad

Leo DOES have the right to pull the show it's HIS network That's why Steve got so Pissy Lastnight - Erle Stride

Robert, don't you think this is a bit of a soap opera? - Jon Lebkowsky

Kevin: That exactly the way it appeared to this outsider. - Nick in Manila

Vlad, I think we all agree that Leo shouldn't have shut the show down. But I think removing Leo from his own network in his own studio is silly. Do you really think he's going to do this again? - Lise

Jon: of course! - Robert Scoble

Mike sounded so reasonable last night. He told Leo and Steve not to make any rash decisions about the show, I'm surprised he didn't apply the same wisdom to himself and yanked the TC account so fast - Stephen Pickering

Jon: of course this is all a soap opera. So is real life. - Robert Scoble

If Arrington had gotten a free Pre to preview this never would havve happened - Chris Patterson

Shava: The thing is, even if this weren't the internet, all our talking heads would still be talking about this. It's like with any kind of media personality, new old doesn't matter. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Sigh. Okay. "Desperate Technorati." - Jon Lebkowsky

jeneane: No, Calacanis just asked that the listeners of TWiT do that to support the sponsors of the show. - Mike Bracco

Jeneane The contest starts on Monday. Details at squarespace.com/iphone - Vlad Bobleanta

Stephen: lots of us can see the sins in other people but can't see our own sins quite so clearly. Myself included. :-) - Robert Scoble

Chris, I see. - Kevin Whalen

I'm not sure I agree that life has to be a soap opeat, but I have to agree that it often is. - Jon Lebkowsky

Arrington was treated terribly - no doubt. is this new for him? no. has he treated others terribly? yes. will deleting the account keep people from treating him badly? no. will it stop him from treating others poorly? i doubt it. we all act like jerks sometimes. some of us have a bigger audience when it happens. some of us get a lot more crap when we do it. the folks who get extra crap... more... - MikeAmundsen

Your right, I've got to learn to practice that on myself - Stephen Pickering

These guys could use some zazen. - Jon Lebkowsky

lol, Jon! - Shava Nerad

I guess I missed the terrible part on FriendFeed - TechCrunch or Digg or the TWiT chatroom, maybe, but it seemed to me FriendFeed was rooting for Mike by the end of that show. - Jesse Stay

Lise: Lol. Dunno, we'll see. - Vlad Bobleanta

i think this can be debated for days... perhaps finding a resolution should the direction here. - Tobias Lewsadder

Sad. The Techcrunch items were some of my favorite part of Friendfeed. And I seem to remember an issue Mike wrote about some weeks back that impressed me with non-tech issues he feels strongly about. I hope he comes back with the Techcrunch account because whatever else, a few of us think he's part of here. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I think the stuff that got TechCrunch to delete friendfeed came last night. - Robert Scoble

Less chatter, more photon splatter? What's the big deal, everbody's human and loses their cool at times. Some social media/stars/hosts are working very very long days and it's way to easy to fly off the handle when someone questions your rep. - Mark Essel

Which is sad because that was the only way I read TechCrunch before. Hopefully MG continues to share his posts. - Jesse Stay

MikeAmundsen: It only takes one dog to bite out your throat. Mike's lucky in this regard that it's a bunch of people screaming at him once or twice and then disappearing into the void, so much as this issue is concerned. When you have one person in a campaign against you for a long time, though, the damage is far worse than what this mob is doing to Mike. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Tobias: yeah, not sure there is a resolution. I hope everyone who listens to me and interacts on my behalf remembers that there's people involved here. - Robert Scoble

Mike Admundsen - you nailed it - Liza

I expect the friendfeed, if it was anything like this, was too fast and nasty to moderate, and when things die down he'll be back. I can see me doing that if things got fast and nasty - Shava Nerad

WWDC needs to hurry up and get here... many you guys are bored :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

If anyone wants a divergence from this serious talk, check out this CALACANIS AUDIBLE LOVE DANCE that I just recorded from today's TWiT - http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Mike Bracco

Jesse: http://www.friendfeed.com/techcru... - someone remade it ;) - Nicholas James

Mike kept saying that a bunch of FriendFeeders wanted to see him dead. I never saw those kind of comments. Were those kind of awful things said? - Stephen Pickering

I suspect they'll get over it. I've certainly had some emotional moments that led me to delete accounts and worse. - Jon Lebkowsky

Anyway, in a week we'll be back to talking about Apple's new iPhone. Bwana is right. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

Bwana, tis true lol, I'm excited to see what Santa will bring. - Colin

And got ove rit. - Jon Lebkowsky

Robert By the sounds of it - Erle Stride

One thing to remember, on the internet we are all still people. Attack egos, attack actions but leave the people alone - Chris Patterson

Bwana: If only Palm had given more people Pre's the other day, we wouldn't be talking about this. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm with Leo - I don't think there will be a new iPhone - Jesse Stay

Yes, I will get the new Iphone!!!!!!! Yeah, I've been living with a Razor for two years, but I'm not excited about AT&T - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: yeah, but they weren't people who I recognized. Anyway, time to move on. If I ever participate in a Mob again, just kick me in the knees, OK? - Robert Scoble

Chris Patterson: AMEN. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

h Leo and Steve feel the GG and TWiT don't belong together I just wonder who will be the first to pull the trigger - Erle Stride

well, you folks solve the problems of the world, I have to go feed folks dinner...:) Seeya later Jon! Nice to run across you. - Shava Nerad

OK, I will! heheheh - Stephen Pickering

Tking acct down does nothing to address issue - scoble, we'll kick you in knees if you mob - settles it! - Liza

Shava: I gotta go play with Milan who just woke up. Seeya! - Robert Scoble

http://friendfeed.com/tad... - Chrimmus Tad

Tad: :) - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Yay - saved by Milan, Scoble! - Liza

And yet, a Friendfeed without Arrington is lessened. He was as much a part of Friendfeed as Scoble. Heck, it just doesn't seem like Friendfeed UNLESS you've got both Arrington and Scoble talking. - George Hall (Australia)

Deleting the FF account was an emotional reaction. I mean, think about it. Will that stop people over here talking about Mike or TC stuff? Of course not. So what's the point then? Just that Mike will never ever load FF again and therefore won't see some bad stuff being said about him? Sounds strange to me. I hope he changes his mind, because being less engaged with the audience is never good in my book. Trolls can be blocked. Bad stuff can be ignored. But to stifle what can be good conversations...why? - Vlad Bobleanta

robert could it be as simple as... arrington was a jerk, laporte overreacted in attempts to defend his integrity. both were at fault in one way or another. it is the job of the host of the show to end this all. steve needs to step up and ask everyone to drop it. - Tobias Lewsadder

Now you can't post comments to his last article on techcrunch, how cool is that? - GeorgeAris

Vlad: when people get beat up they don't always make smart decisions. - Robert Scoble

Hopefully Mike Arrington will come back to FF after a short time off, He will be missed - Kim Landwehr

Perhaps it's time we made an effort to make Mike feel welcome back here again. - George Hall (Australia)

Did someone make the techcrunch account again to save it for him? heh - Lise

Would there be agreement that this was out of character for Leo and is there anyone following this that hasn't lost it in a professional situation? I sure he meant what he said, although I'm also sure he regrets it happened and feels like an ass. - Jim Gablick

Tobias: Actually, if Steve can get the two of them in one room and shake hands and tell everyone together to lay off on the attacks, perhaps they might. It's a longshot but it could go a far way to making things better between them all, too. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Talking? I don't see Arrington as a talker...I see (saw) him as a sabre rattler and drama king. Unless there's controversy, he's not quiet. Finally, someone told him to shut the hell up for the tool behavior that's his M.O. Scob, if he couldn't stand the heat.... - C. Jason Mancebo

http://www.dramabutton.com/ - Karim

Karim: LOL> - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

+1 Karim - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Agreed. I understand. - Vlad Bobleanta

That drama button was hilarious Karim - Benjamin Taylor

Jason: I don't think Mike minded Leo going off on him so much. It's the aftermath of having the mobs kick him in the nuts that got to him, me thinks. - Robert Scoble

C. Jason: He's that too, but it is a talker. He does engage. And when he's not putting up that jerkface public persona, I'm pretty sure he's a nice, cool guy you can have drinks with. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

i cant believe that we are actually discussing this. shouldnt we feel disgusted that someone felt attacked enough to cancel his account. jerk or not he is human - Tobias Lewsadder

agreed Scoble - Kim Landwehr

never been a fan of mob mentality myself... - George Hall (Australia)

Scob, I think it's cumulative. He's gotten away with ALOT of stirring the pot for a while and people just have had it. Be a contributor, or go away....but I certainly don't agree with the "death and cancer wishes"...that's completely unnecessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: Mike is always interesting. I was at a tech industry brunch this morning with him and he's always got an interesting conversation going on. - Robert Scoble

How does the saying go... "Live by the swarm, die by the swarm"? - Ken Sheppardson

Jason: then we're on the same side. Arrington gets to me once in a while too. He knows how to push my buttons as well and get me all wound up. But that also is how he gets stories before anyone else does. - Robert Scoble

Heck, Arrington's style created BUZZZ. So why treat him badly? - George Hall (Australia)

It is almost like working for Microsoft. You get attacked daily. - Chris Patterson

C. Jason: I'm a big jerk myself, on the outside, but that doesn't mean I'm not a sensitive and caring person on the inside. He's more than just his persona, he's an actual person too. Sometimes someone does have to come out and say "stop being such a dick" to me, and no doubt to him. But attacking en mass the way this mob [redacted] is doing, that's just not right. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris Patterson: LOL. Good one. - Vlad Bobleanta

George: Arrington has done something remarkable. We always talk about him. He doesn't always like what we're saying, but I told him this morning that he has created a media company that is doing interesting things and that he should worry about the day when we're not all mobbing on him for some reason or another. - Robert Scoble

I don't understand Arrington's defense. He's really nice, soft and fluffy on the inside even though he attacks you in public and calls out your integrity? He may have his own issues to deal with, but he's in the public eye and he should expect the wrath of the Internet to reign down when he pulls an asshat move like this one. How many times does he get to slip out of the antics he... more... - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Maybe he read the Terms and Conditions here at FriendFeed and freaked out? - Kenneth Stein

George: that said, it's not always fun and games being the center of all that kind of attention. - Robert Scoble

+1 on Arrington getting stories before anyone else...when Friendfeed was down a few weeks ago, he was the only one who could provide info on why. Fastest news of that particular day. - George Hall (Australia)

I'm still not convinced we can strictly pin this on Leo fans...that video got dugg bigtime and when a mob forms, people come from everywhere - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Don't I know it. - George Hall (Australia)

Eric, does his actions, though, really warrant people to wish death upon him? (which is, apparently what he's upset about) - Lise

Chris Charabaruk: Let's just please not call them Leo fans anymore. A mob is a mob. I'm a Leo fan and was not part of any mob, ever. And I don't want that association to stick in my head. - Vlad Bobleanta

Chris, I'm sure he is, but too often, people need to hide behind their persona for whatever reason. His is the sabre rattler/pot stirrer...he went WAY too far insulting a pretty good guy's ethics. Not good, but certainly agree with the over zealous backlash..not good as well. I guess "you reap what you sew" is certainly valid - C. Jason Mancebo

Vlad: I'm also a Leo fan and I totally see your point. I'll edit that bit out... - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Vlad, yes. I take offense to that whole Leo fans thing. I'm a huge Leo fan. I don't act that way. - Lise

RobertS: this seems so reminiscent of the January fracas in Europe. Why is it that Arrington engenders such anger in people (and i'm not talking about Leo here)? this isn't some cosmic joke on good ol' boy MIke Arrington. there's a lot of history here. there's a lot of anger that Arrington has exhibited over a long period of time. don't get me wrong, i feel badly for the man. but not... more... - MikeAmundsen

let him go. - Stalyn☂

Eric: integrity is something we should always ask of each other. I don't mind if you ask me those kinds of questions. I got a review unit of the Palm Pre too. You SHOULD be asking whether that biases my review in some way. Mike was mostly digging for a story yesterday, not attacking Leo. That's something you gotta know Arrington about. He was digging and got a reaction he wasn't expecting. - Robert Scoble

The internet is full of high octane evil. It waits for an opportunity such as this to wish death on a person. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, I heard that yesterday, and Leo just popped off. Mike really didn't deserve this one, which you can hear. What upsets me now is that I can see he does personalize a lot of this stuff, which was really done by Leo's audience, and Leo's chat room has an audience I wouldn't wish on my worse enemy. I loved it when we started the FF chat so I wouldn't have to listen to Leo's immature... more... - Francine Hardaway

it seems like people who have been angered by mike at one time or another are using this as an opportunity to lay into him. - Tobias Lewsadder

C Jason: Exactly , it is one thing to attack a persons opinion, but attacking someone's ethics is really harsh - Chris Patterson

No one deserves it - Bwana ☠ from IM

Francine: well said. - Robert Scoble

We had a good discussion yesterday at a tweetup in the city about the whole thing. I think MIke ABSOLUTELY deserved this one. It's been a long time coming. The whole backlash, not deserved, but not surprised. - C. Jason Mancebo

WHAT!!!? - Jason Pollock

C. Jason: if Mike was hiding behind his persona instead of showing the real self, he'd be blasting back at his detractors, not removing their comments and killing the old TC account here. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

NO ONE deserves to have personal attacks that deal with their life or family. - Chris Patterson

I don't think these are even people who were angered by Mike, it was just mob rule. And there's no such thing as an online conversation that's "a long time coming" and bad enough to make someone want to get away from being online. That shouldn't be the way we act. - Francine Hardaway

So Arrington and the other guy worked it out between themselves...so why should a mob stretch things any further? - George Hall (Australia)

Lise, you are absolutely right, that isn't right; no threats are necessary. I didn't see that here however. Not from the regular FF crowd that have regular activity, so I really didn't see that personally. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Chris: Mike wasn't attacking someone else's ethics. Listen carefully to both shows yesterday. He was asking questions. Leo took it too personally, me thinks (he thinks so too, in hind sight). If your ethics are really above reproach you can answer calmly and professionally. - Robert Scoble

Chris, I think he was hiding behind it in public and now is effected beyond the persona. - C. Jason Mancebo

Francine: very well said. - Vlad Bobleanta

Francine: agreed #2. Well said. - Robert Scoble

Geroge Hall correct. - Francine Hardaway

George: Mob mentality. 100 sheep on their own are perfectly fine, but if they freak out and charge in the same direction... - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Francine: mobs can get out of control here in the real time web. Not sure how we can fix that. - Robert Scoble

Scoble, I gotta respectfully disagree with you. He was absolutely trying to make something out of nothing. Totally NOT ETHICAL! - C. Jason Mancebo

Well, you don't want to be in their way. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

These things push my buttons because I see so much potential for good in the online community and I want the bad stuff to go away. I know that's unrealistic - Francine Hardaway

Eric, I didn't notice those either but I wasn't the one attacked and wasn't looking for those. Despite that, Mike saw it/felt it. That's the point. - Lise

Never liked mobs, never liked being on receiving end of them, never liked following any. - George Hall (Australia)

Making a story is not creating a story. Not cool! - C. Jason Mancebo

Jason: I can understand how you see it that way. DId you watch the second Gilmor Gang last night? Mike explained why he was asking those questions and Leo answered much more calmly. - Robert Scoble

I vote we try to help Mike feel wanted here again. - George Hall (Australia)

maybe leo should join us and ask people to lay off - Tobias Lewsadder

Robert, I haven't heard the second show, but in the first one Leo clearly said that it was a review unit. - Chris Patterson

I'm going to email mike. - Francine Hardaway

Jason: personally the free stuff and review units and access DO bias our reporting and that's something that we SHOULD talk about calmly and professionally. Our audiences should hear our answers. I don't think Mike's question was one that shouldn't be asked. Of EVERYONE. - Robert Scoble

Robert, did you get a hold of Leo about this yet? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Scoble, I think it was prettied up for public consumption by both of them. Sure, Leo could have been better about it. Absolutely. But I just am not with you on that one. Agree to disagree on this. - C. Jason Mancebo

You should see the second show. You haven't seen that, you can't really get the gist of it. imho. - Vlad Bobleanta

This is not about Arrington but about much larger issues and tensions that are brewing - amt of comments is undeniable proof of that. - Liza

Robert Scoble, I understand your point. "If you only knew him..." I'm sure if I had a beer with the guy I'd grow to love him and all, but I haven't and all I have to go on is what I saw, and I can't side with M.A., not after his history with shooting first with his posts and comments. He really needs to put himself in the mind of the public that find a problem with his actions without... more... - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Chris: and Mike, in the second show, explained why he was asking that. Techcrunch didn't get a review unit and his theory is that Palm is only giving review units to people who are saying nice things about Palm. - Robert Scoble

On the early access units, how in the hell is anyone (Scoble, McCracken, Ubergizmo) supposed to review anything early without early access units. It's not a gift, it's a loaner. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: I'm calling Leo now. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo was right in getting mad - Johnathan Schultz

Ask Leo to come in here - Lise

Come on guys. If you haven't watched the second show, you're blowing in the wind. - Nick in Manila

This talk of super-scary Friendfeed "mobs" is all a little hyperbolic. - Christopher A Carr

Leo should not have said such inflammatory things.. Even if he was pissed off he could have handled himself in a professional manner on the air - Jason Pollock

mike totally clarified himself and leo apologized for taking it the wrong way. - Tobias Lewsadder

A promoter is not a journalist. Much of what I see on TC, and here and elsewhere illustrates that YOU are buzzing things, creating hype which in part drives it forward. The coverage ought to be balanced though, and it's going to likely lead to unfortunate and unnecessary consequences. This might shed a bit of light on it. http://bit.ly/LfVJk - Kenneth Stein

Jason: I hate the review unit thing. Walt Mossberg got his weeks ago. - Robert Scoble

I guess nobody takes Sunday evenings with their families these days, eh? - Ken Sheppardson

Johnathan: Leo's anger was justified, yeah, but how he expressed it was a bit much. But how the way the mob took it as a call to action, that's bad. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I think it should be stressed that Leo can't be held responsible for anything anyone else says. On the irc chat, here wherever. - Vlad Bobleanta

It is really too bad the conversation went bad. Mike really did have some good questions to ask about how business ethics and free products review or not. He just started the conversation really badly - Kim Landwehr

leo's language on the air incited the hate comments that techcrunch got - Jason Pollock

HI Liza, well, I see it yes and no....this specific thing is a good example of "you don't get to be a shit stirrer and get away with it forever". - C. Jason Mancebo

Christopher: A mob is a mob, online or off. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Lise, getting threats like that is something no one should go through, I agree. People should act with civility. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Interesting post of Mike Arrington(The New York Times Sunday edition): The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Johni Fisher

On the AIR? Lol there's no FCC regulation yet....I'll refrain from scribing the 7 deadlies here - Kenneth Stein

Looked to me like he was being a jerk and got called on it "what are you going to do about it?" is not the kind of retort that should pass between two adults. That being said, it also looks like Leo has decided to move on so should the rest of us. - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Vlad: That's true, but he can still encourage them to act more responsibly. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

J Abdul, I think the "what are you going to do about it" was still when Mike thought it was all kind of a joke - Lise

Scoble, it's not like they but a hundy in the package and say "review away" :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

No one's going to move on until there's something else to talk about ;) Come on WWDC! - Bwana ☠ from IM

Offline mobs hurt more when they hit you with an actual physical object, as opposed to pissy comments variety of assault from dangerous Friendfeed "mobs." - Christopher A Carr

Ken S, I just fired up the grill. Great day on the coast in HMB today. BBQ and wine happens soon :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

we all benefit from the work that mike does. tech crunch has been a daily read for me for years... although you may disagree with some of his methods, is wishing him death really appropriate - Tobias Lewsadder

C. Jason: They don't have to. Just having the thing before everyone else creates an incentive for acting non-ethically. After all, they give you a review unit (even one you need to return) because you gave them a good review might encourage you to keep giving good reviews for the opportunity to play with the latest gadgets first. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris: Yes, and I think he should. Let's just keep in mind, those are just random people who he probably never met. And in the case of the irc chat, are mostly anonymous. Which is part of the problem imo. - Vlad Bobleanta

Tobias, i think we all agree that the backlash has gone to far...yes, - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, research idicates that being teased and taunted oftentimes is more painful than being hit. - Kenneth Stein

Who were these random people anyway? Friendfeed regulars, or blow-ins? - George Hall (Australia)

I agree, and i think this onslaught has gone on far enough - Johnathan Schultz

Time to man up Arrington. The storm's here and.... Oohh look, another iPhone rumor - Bwana ☠ from IM

George, I'm sure some were FF regulars. I don't think because you have a FF account it makes you of right mind. heh Unfortunately. - Lise

Just a computer engineer, patent attorney, developing some tech - Kenneth Stein

@George Hall: Gillmor Gang regulars. - 321

"Onslaught?" Please. - Christopher A Carr

People need to get a tiny bit of perspective instead of social media tunnel vision - Nathan Cooprider

One thing I would really like to see come from this is that folks like Arrington with the "Not quite so stringent, shoot first retract later" ethics understand that people give a shit about that and it's not cool. - C. Jason Mancebo

George Hall: mostly non-regulars, or that was my impression at least. But not exclusively. Arrington is easy to hate, that's the truth. And some people just need to hate something. Or someone. That is all. - Vlad Bobleanta

Its just feels like this has gone a little to far - Johnathan Schultz

Tobias, but I'm not sure that we wouldn't benefit MORE from TC if it was a bit less "NY POST" ish - C. Jason Mancebo

The whole evening Gilmore Gang put everything into context. It was really interesting, lots of questions and talking points raised regarding technology reporting, journalistic integrity and consumed content. Even a discussion about the GG show itself. It's unfortunate that a few people ran with the 1 minute clip and formed an opinion without looking at the whole day in context. - Benjamin Taylor

I want to make a quick statement, because this is how it seems to be framed here for some. Just because we are choosing to criticize him doesn't mean we are part of a mob or are threatening him. The debate should not be framed as Arrington versus bloodsucking Friendfeed mob. There is no defense for threats, online or off. No one is debating that that I have seen. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

@Johnathan Schultz: It has, but what are us bored geeks with too much time on their hands to do? - 321

jason: agreed - Tobias Lewsadder

Scoble, pretty great day on the coast for an Arrington discussion, no :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

I do have to say that this whole incident is the reason I've came over to FF permanently. - kenneth glenn

Benjamin: agreed. Eric: death threats is a mob in my book. Noone is referring to criticism, but rather to threats and mindless stuff. - Vlad Bobleanta

If someone has actually threatened his safety, that's one thing, but I must say I found it almost funny that he was so upset over terrifying Friendfeed "mobs." - Christopher A Carr

anyone know arrington for an extended period of time? has he always been like this? - Tobias Lewsadder

Vlad, right, death threats are wrong, but that doesn't make me or anyone here criticizing this incident as part of the mob. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

shiftoptionk - that is the core of the issue :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

I think that many people just took the opportunity to join in on the "I hate you Arrington" bandwagon when that started yesterday. Today they're all probably busy in Google Reader (even though RSS is apparently dead) reading the latest TechCrunch posts. - 321

I seem to remember a techcrunch article Mike did weeks back about a different issue...one where he took a principled stand. I wonder if non-regular mob making threats relates more to that than the Gilmour gang thing. - George Hall (Australia)

We're reaching again. Terrifying mobs? Where did that come from? He was getting abused, wasn't seeing any real poing to sharing stuff here, so he deleted the account. It makes his life easier. We're sorta going off the deep end... once again. - Ken Sheppardson

@Christopher No one wants to read death threats about themselves. Real or otherwise. - Glenn Trtanj

bwana: elaborate please - Tobias Lewsadder

shiftoptionk - it was a buildup. This is how Arrington is. Leo got tired of it. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Some days you can take it, some days you blow up - Bwana ☠ from IM

afterwards, they made up..but you can believe Arrington will do it again - Bwana ☠ from IM

Bwana, absolutely agree...lots of folks obviously tire of it. - C. Jason Mancebo

i know he has been like this for a while but im askking if this was the type of guy he was before getting into this business or has the business changed him - Tobias Lewsadder

Ken: This is yet another overreaction, yes. This weekend is really something. However some people do take bad things very personally, and maybe Mike is one of them. Dunno, I haven't met him. - Vlad Bobleanta

Personally, I think TechCrunch on FriendFeed is better as a room anyway. It enforces the separation between a person and their business. That said, I do hope that Mike comes back, and that everyone behaves civilly when he's around. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Excuse me, but if Arrington didn't say anything that stirred the pot, it'd be boring in here - George Hall (Australia)

optionshiftk - that I don't know - Bwana ☠ from IM

George: Damn right. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

And I would ask, on a different note, if someone called out you're ethics in the work that puts food on your table in front of everyone at your place of work, plus or minus 50,000 people, how would you react? With anger I bet. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

I have a shiny drama button here for those that are bored - Bwana ☠ from IM

We need something like http://instantrimshot.com that automatically generates FF drama. - Ken Sheppardson

@George Hall (Australia): Indeed, gives us something to talk about until tomorrow. People just seem to be over analysing all of this. - 321

Chris, I don't agree with your logic on early access = incentive for ethical problems. Lot's of folks get early stuff. The only issue that I see is lots of FALSE POSITIVE reviews by lot's of up and comers...but not the Leo Laportes of the world. - C. Jason Mancebo

And for those that want real drama, please refer to the french fry vs onion rings vs tater tots debate: http://ff.im/3H1oA - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

If anyone thought Friendfeed was JUST Robert Scoble, they missed half the point. It was equal amounts Scoble AND Arrington. The thrust and parry of the differing viewpoints sometimes. - George Hall (Australia)

cstechcast - Yeah, some people think it's excusable because it's "interesting" and it's entertaining. I don't, but that doesn't change the situation though. I never liked the way Arrington did his thing, but I doubt he cares and I doubt it'll affect his career. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Eric: no. And Leo wouldn't have done it angrily if it wasn't for the feeling that he was being Mike's target. When you get questioned, you keep your cool and explain. Leo said exactly this tonight. - Vlad Bobleanta

C. Jason: A false positive review IS an ethical violation, BY VIRTUE OF BEING FALSE. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George, Arrington was really never on Friendfeed. He was not active here. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

His account was. - George Hall (Australia)

posted some thoughts on this in the longer post here http://friendfeed.com/parisle... - MG Siegler

and he was a part of Robert' - George Hall (Australia)

s best posts. - George Hall (Australia)

Vlad, that is the logical thing to do, but that would not be most people's gut reaction. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

MG: Well played. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

You can't be putting feelings before facts, I like facts. - Colin

Arrington wasn't sitting around on FF all day, but he was here. There were several comments from him over the past few days. - Ken Sheppardson

Colin: Sure you can put feelings before facts. If you couldn't, politicians would be out of work. ;) - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I got along just fine on FriendFeed without Arrington - but that's not really a big thing - Bwana ☠ from IM

We all have to step away at times... I wouldn't delete my account, but I'm not Mike Arrington - Bwana ☠ from IM

Scoble, have you seen MA's comments on TC? He's admitting to saying "We were promised one but it wasn’t delivered" but the comments are targeted at LL, not at Palm. That's completely shit stirring. Just not necessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

that's why I'm not trying to understand his POV ...or Leo's... it's their business - Bwana ☠ from IM

@Lise not really something you say in jest... Those are or (at least were) what the old folks used to call "fighting words" and the only real reason to say them to someone is a) the two people in question are physically separated or b) the one person doesn't think the other is actually going to do any thing. - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Bwana, I agree, we talk about this and I guess it's proof stirring the pot gets you your celebrity. Next stop, reality show. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

bingo - Bwana ☠ from IM

it's all one big drama button until WWDC ;) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Well that's my hokmah moment for the day, I'll be over here watching the game - Bwana ☠ from IM

I agree with @Bwana but this happens everytime Mike thinks he's going to read something he doesn't like..just as right before he deleted TC's friendfeed account. We may not know him as a person but his actions have always preceeded him. - John Blanton from twhirl

Just talked with Leo. He hadn't realized this was all still cooking, but admits that people have said some really horrid things. - Robert Scoble

J Abdul, I completely disagree. Of course you can say that in jest. You can even, as Mike assumed, throw F bombs at someone... in jest. - Lise

Now that he does know, I hope that he'll come out and say something about it, see if he can put the whole matter to rest finally. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

When I called Leo he answered "are you calling me on your Pre?" Ahhh, the fun we have behind the scenes. ;-) (I wasn't, my Pre is charging). - Robert Scoble

i think leo is focused on wwdc - Tobias Lewsadder

Big tech boys and their toys...and the surrounding jealousy :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, you still haven't done anything with that Pre, my god! Aren't you curious to play with it? heh - Lise

On twit earlier he was laughing and thought it had all blown over - Jack

Lise: I took some pictures on it today and will do a writeup later. - Robert Scoble

Jack: yeah. I told him these were aftershocks like what happens after a big earthquake. - Robert Scoble

i saw that it syncs with itunes... does it sync calendar and address book thru itunes or thru isync? - Tobias Lewsadder

Anyway, I gotta go, otherwise Maryam is gonna go off on me in public and that won't be fun either. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Robert - just don't walk off of her show! - jeneane sessum

Cya Robert! - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Robert, see ya. Can't wait to hear about the Pre! - Lise

Calacanis made a joke on Twit today when Leo began talking about the Pre, my senses stepped up and became more sensitive for a second there. - Colin

later scoble - Tobias Lewsadder

I was hoping he would set the record straight. It's hard to counter a 90 second youtube clip and the hour follow up with Arrington yesterday isn't widely availible. - Jack

I suspect readers/viewers would have hated the vast majority of reporters from Benjamin Franklin on if they saw the man behind the news then, the way we often can now. Journalism isn't a gentile profession. If you don't want arrogance, then go get your news from a convent. Otherwise, expect and accept that these people are who they are and, for the most part, you get higher quality, more hard hitting news because of it. So appreciate that Arrington is an arrogant ass and leave him alone. - Dawn

Robert here's the thing .. we're all huge fans of Leo and how can we not have something to say about this for good or for ill? - John Blanton from twhirl

Robert's original point was that Arrington copped a tremendous amount of mob attack including threats to Arrington. Sounds interesting for what was essentially a small and resolved issue between him and Leo. I have to wonder if the mob were actually Facebook hategroups pretending to be friendfeeders, since Mike did write an article on Techcrunch about the fact Facebook allows hate groups a say. - George Hall (Australia)

Gee,that quietened everyone. Is the silence the sound of people thinking? - George Hall (Australia)

So... how long until we get a Laporte/Christian Bale mashup? - Jack

I was just thinking about the earthquake analogy...is it a force of nature, if it were not for this thread, would we be talking about this? - Benjamin Taylor

I think most folks walked away after they realized that Robert actually did go AFK to spend time with his family. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Jack: LOL. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

If your a public figure such as an editor of a magazine, you need thicker skin this. This seems to be a reoccuring thing. People say bad things about him and he goes away. If he didn't want the negative comments or feedback maybe he should stop being such an asshole. He attracts this even when not saying crap about people. He gets what he deserves. Leo gets crap as well and i have not see him leave. He just moves on and tries to prove himself in his work. With respect on top of it all. - CW™

In real terms, it's Arrington's job to create buzz and pot-stir. So is that a reason for him to get such a mob reaction and threats? No. - George Hall (Australia)

And if there's one thing that won my respect for him it was that stand he took weeks ago on that Facebook issue. - George Hall (Australia)

While Arrington might have expected a backlash from Facebook users, here was where he least expected it. - George Hall (Australia)

Speaking of mob in a gentler way...does everyone HAVE to go quiet when Robert leaves the conversation? - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: why was FF never meant to be used like Robert uses it? He gets some interesting conversation going. - George Hall (Australia)

Most people are probably here looking for Scoble's attention, and want him to respond to them personally. - Jack

Robert also feels strongly about what happened to Mike, as for whatever else, they're friends. And he's allowed to defend his friend. - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: Discussion is EXACTLY how FriendFeed is supposed to be used. I don't see a blog post here. I see Robert starting a conversation, and contributing his two cents here and there. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George, haha I went quiet when Robert left. I just assumed the whole thing would go quiet. Plus, you know Robert can keep a conversation going. - Lise

+1 Chris. - George Hall (Australia)

I wonder if Robert hopes we'll keep a thread going without him once in a while. - George Hall (Australia)

George: LOL, probably. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George: yes. :-) - Robert Scoble

LOL - Lise

If anyone hasn't heard part 2 of the Gillmor Gang it's here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Angrykeyboarder: this IS my blog on the topic. :-) - Robert Scoble

+1 Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

People who know Mike: Do you think he'll cool down and come back to FriendFeed? - Bruce Lewis

What a wknd ..sooo strong feelings - Johni Fisher

I hope Mike DOES come back. I miss his feeds already. - George Hall (Australia)

I stopped reading TechCrunch some time last year, but started following it on FriendFeed after Mike's month in Hawaii. My impression is that depth/quality has gone up. Not that I did a scientific study or anything. - Bruce Lewis

Woah, I thought I was going to have to ask the question, but it seems the impression I got is coming out in the end. I felt certain that Leo had learned from the past to recognize the Arrington pattern, and that he saw some familiar threads and immediately kicked the loom out of the weaver's hands. In my reading of past things that don't even involve Leo, Arrington's been a subject of... more... - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Intellectual or professional disagreement doesn't have to mean personal disagreement. While I'd disagree on some of Mike's points, I have nothing against the man personally. And there's still a fair amount of stuff he's written I DO agree with. The Facebook hate group article for one. That shows Mike has principles. - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for that audio link, Jack... and Robert, I haven't blogged much lately either, but I did in this case... without hearing part2 first! - Richard pancakhaus Walker

People disappoint. I am no fan of Mike Arrington's, but I wish him no ill either. To have even one person wish him cancer or otherwise is just awful. With that said, I no longer buy the "he's a sensitive guy" routine. He's either a tough guy or he's a victim, and the victim seems to emerge when he's wrong. He has the power. He has the attention. He wields it. By his own admission, his... more... - Karoli

I wish him a little bit of ill will. Just minor ill will. Like maybe the apples he selects to be slightly less sweet than he was hoping for, or his timing chain to hop one tooth and make his car ride just a bit rough, or his shoe lace to break when he's tying them. - Matthew DeVries

lol @Matthew - Louis Simoneau

Fortunately, wishing cancer on someone is not going to make it happen. I could stand right next to Arrington, shut my eyes really tight and mentally chant "get cancer" for hours, and the only result would be indesputable proof of my utter stupidity. I'd have to laugh at the goofball who expressed such a sentiment. I would expend actual thought processes on the ones who wished for bodily harm, because those folks might bump into Arrington at a floor show or before or after a session at a conference. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

found this link at the same time I was listening to this: http://bit.ly/2nhNLw via @arrington and Leo afterword. Didn't see the link, apologies if it's already been posted. - motownmutt

I'm not sure why people hate Mike so personally, it's ok to disagree with him but Mike and TechCrunch seams to have a lot of hate aimed at them for no apparent reason. - DarknessFalls

motownmutt: thats a direct link to the second part of the show. It's from the "bootleg" feed (read:only feed) which includes the first part of the show, as well as last weeks show, and older shows: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Actually, it's already resolved between Leo and Mike anyway. And that's really where it should have stayed anyway. Resolved between those concerned. Doesn't need mob commentary afterwards, doesn't need threats to Mike, doesn't need the bullsh**. - George Hall (Australia)

I've been hiding all of these entries about Mike and Leo. I decided to read yours Robert because I know you. Here are some of my thoughts. First, I don't know either Mike or Leo and have never been influenced by either one of them. Second, I love listening to Leo's shows but cannot stand TechCrunch and the attitudes on that site. Third, Mike was the first (and only) person I... more... - LPH™ and his dog P™

@DarknessFalls, I think it was said that some people hold Arrington responsible for the failures of their ventures. He gives his opinion, & people listen (I think). If someone's project didn't make sense to Arrrington, and he said as much, it could hurt. Could the people in this flap be a different group? I hope so. @LPH: Interesting take you have there. You're saying the very post that I thought allowed Arrington and Leo to patch things up actually caused his problem with those who weren't involved? - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

LPH: Actually, Mike contributed in other ways. With the things he'd say to Robert, he'd get some real discussion moving anyway. And I liked his feed. Some of the best things I "liked" were Arrington's feed items. Mike didn't contribute? You mustn't have been paying attention. I'm sure Robert can tell you how Mike contributed in quieter, less noticeable ways to the discussions and other things. - George Hall (Australia)

I don't think channeling through Scoble is actually contributing...maybe that's just me. - Bwana ☠

BoringMage: Some people holding it against Arrington for pointing out major flaws in their products meant their products were flawed. People like Arrington voicing concerns can help them improve or come out with better. Sometimes a harsh critic can be your best friend. If what he says helps you come out with better. In which case, I think Mike was still in the right to voice concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

Palm, at the moment, really needs to have the Pre being a hit. But there's some design flaws in the hardware they're going to need to correct fast. That's a valid point. Otherwise I can see them being sued for having edges on the phone so sharp people can injure themselves. - George Hall (Australia)

I would like to know, in 100% honesty, how many people heard part 2 before commenting, including the apology? I admit - I did not hear it until a few minutes ago. Anyone want to chime in? - Liza

Bwana: sometimes, the greatest contributor is the one who sets things up for someone to kick a goal. - George Hall (Australia)

And, when Scoble's back in this discussion, I'm sure he'll tell people how much Arrington DID contribute in a quiet way. - George Hall (Australia)

@GeorgeH: I think what you said is exactly what the person who said Arrington was blamed for others' lack of success was trying to convey. Since I haven't done anything worthy of Arrington's notice, I wouldn't be trying to lay any blame at his feet, nor would I criticize him for pointing out problems, at least not if he let the organization know and gave the organizers a chance to address those concerns. @Liza: I listened to both and read the TC post yesterday. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Not sure what the big deal is on the TC FF account really is. Seemed like nothing but the TC RSS feed being piped into FF for likes and comments. - Rolf Schewe

Two ways to look at how a tech blog criticizing your product affects you. On a non-personal way, they show you you have a flaw. Whether privately telling you or publicly telling you, they're making you aware of it. If you take it personally, you don't improve your product, you just lash out at the messenger. - George Hall (Australia)

People from all types of disciplines follow the Tech Industry. Tech Industry Reviewers become brands that often influence our decisions as trending consumers to become early adopters of new products and services. The most popular brands will always receive benefits from the companies such as freebies, pre-release models, and exclusive (or first opportunity) interviews. The public... more... - thestaticfrost

Thanks for answering my question @boringmage - I was not sure what to think but wanted to see others' rationale, so I followed the stream. I had seen so much noise about it but not the audio part 2. This reshapes the reasoning. - Liza

George: he sure participated more here than Kara Swisher or Walt Mossberg. At some level, though, friendfeed is an aggregator and people deserve participation credit just for putting their feed in here. - Robert Scoble

At the moment I don't get paid for doing a tech review on my own blog. I simply look at the fact it does help if I've used or played with the thing I review. For the most part, I'll point out its good features. But where it has areas to improve, I'll also point those out, too. But someone feels they're going to complain because I point out one or two areas need something a tad better???? - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for validating how much Mike did contribute, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

The other part of this whole thing that bothers me is how Steve has been characterized as this guy who doesn't care about his listeners. If he didn't care about his listeners, he'd produce a show just like every other show out there. Instead he chooses to focus on what he views as important for his listeners to hear. He's been right far more often than he's been wrong, by the way. - Karoli

Geez, wonder if mainstream media ever gets this much discussion these days as much as this one show did. - George Hall (Australia)

If comments in here were ratings, the Gilmore Gang would be a number one show. - George Hall (Australia)

Perhaps it's time to get Gilmore Gang on a mainstream media channel... - George Hall (Australia)

George: Mainstream Media talks this way about themselves so they can justify their existence. - Owen Greaves

Why can't we have a rating system? I think we need a web rating system that encompasses comments too.... - Sid Burgess

Liza, I heard most of the post drama drama today on live.twit.tv on a repeat. Gilmore certainly was upset as well. Seemed to take the whole thing pretty personally as well. Not sure how that has turned out. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Sid: I would love an Internet-wide identity system. But that is really hard to do and get everyone to participate in. - Robert Scoble

Wait. Why is this interesting? - l0ckergn0me

Well, that crack that whip Scoble! :D Actually, I think it would have some self-momentum... people want ratings, advertisers want value... hmmm? - Sid Burgess

He deleted the account because he can't control the conversation. - Jim Posner

Man Google Wave would be so handy right now in a thread like this! - Sid Burgess

Oh no; then you'd see my spelling mistakes in realtime - Jack

;) @jack - Sid Burgess

@l0ckergn0me: I'm hoping to learn something so I can be half as big as you one day and not make the same mistakes that others make so publicly for me. So if I have something wrong, by all means correct me! [edit: I know you like helping people; help me! ;) ] - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

As an pretty unbiased 3rd party, I am wondering why so few responded to listening to part 2 on audio. I know I am not 'relevant' to the crew, but it is a fair question. - AND re: why is it interesting - EXACTLY, it is not interesting except that so many are interested, so as a curious person, I want to understand it. - Liza

Gee, imagine doing any reviews or critiques of any product if you felt constrained for pointing out it had a flaw or if you saw products to review given ONLY to those writing JUST good things. - George Hall (Australia)

Liza: the problem is the youtube video is 90 seconds long and the part 2 is over 1 hour - Jack

people dont have the patience to sit through that. Compare 112 thousand views, to 2 thousand clicks (so far) on the bit.ly link: http://bit.ly/info/2nhNLw - Jack

Jack - fair enough, but this is a 4 HOUR STREAM -and for some really strong opinions, if I were an "influencer", I sure would not say something w/o doing my research - Liza

That's exactly the problem here. Both you and I wouldn't give our opinions without the full picture. But the so called "influencers" just mouth off without doing the proper research, like the "problem" with blogging where unsubstantiated claims and heresay is published. - Jack

Is that like what M.A. does frequently? - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, I think Arrington does do his research. - George Hall (Australia)

Michael does fact-check or tells people it is unconfirmed in the post, generally. - Neal Jansons from IM

That wasn't directed at Mike at all, he's an excellent blogger - Jack

+1 Jack. Mike does excellent blogs - George Hall (Australia)

George, I have to disagree. He's much more of a shoot from the hip and retract later if I get called on it type of guy. Tthe truth or the facts are good, but only if it's interesting and gets him some buzz. - C. Jason Mancebo

Perhaps it's more like being accused of rape then vindicated, people wil only remember the more sensational story. - Jack

Not directed at Michael or anyone in particular. I asked a simple question, who listened to part 2 audio and few answered. Not directed at anyone. - Liza

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it was interesting to hear Leo realize what the Gillmor Gang is really about in this second part: I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. Thoughts? - Jack

Liza, I think it might be a little late to expect a flood of comments. This is natural around here. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Who says geeks and nerds are dull? - George Hall (Australia)

Those who are not geeks/nerds :) - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

@Jack: At first I couldn't figure out where you got that impression, but now I wonder if you're talking about the part where Leo was (if I recall correctly) saying to Steve that he got the impression that what was happening in the show wasn't what Steve wanted happening in the show, and when he was asking him what he wanted to do about it (with someone saying it doesn't have to be discussed right there in public). Is that what you're referring to? - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

If I had already been physically assaulted (spit on), had my family threatened, and then had a mob of people come after me online - deleting an account on a social network probably would be a quick decision. - Matthew McCowan

I mean that Leo was expressing his concern over the high amounts of drama on the show, which he disliked and thinks can be advoided, to which Steve and Robert explained was inevitable and part of the show. - Jack

I need to go listen more, methinks. Just not tonight. Gotta be at work in 8 hours. I can seriously understand not expecting drama, though. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

I predict GG moves over to Mahalo. - Jim Posner

Oh, wait, I forgot that screaming, mean vlogger guy is on that show; of COURSE there will be drama! - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Jim: that actually seems like a good fit for the show. i personally think steve should find a way to host it so he can have full control. - Tobias Lewsadder

Could also be an interesting get for B43. - Jim Posner

Reminds me how silky things can get over objects/tech. In Australia you can get fist fights over Ford and Holden (GM) - George Hall (Australia) from BuddyFeed

The show has been very different since it came to Twit. Much more tamed down. This week was almost a return to form, except that Leo ended the show. One of my favourite pre twit shows was when all the other hosts were laying into Scoble for wasting a year of his life on Friendfeed. He was right in the end of course, but the confict that sparks heated debates is why I started listening to the show. - Jack

Guess it's never boring, then. - George Hall (Australia)

It's a shame he felt he needed to. It's a bad decision which is an unfortunate one. - James Stratford

Robert I got to agree w/you on Techcruch. Did u read about: TechCrunch's Notes | The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism http://ff.im/3HS0e - polou/indigo_bow

Ryo: A few months down the track you'll probably be playing with a crunchpad. And you'll be thinking it a nice piece of tech...but are you going to throw it away when you realize Arrington's associated with it? There are trolls and there are trolls. I don't think Arrington was a troll. Pot-stirrer yes. Troll no. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I totally disagree with you. Techcrunch has helped many many companies launch and provides a valuable service in getting lots of people to pay attention to the tech industry. Arrington is far far from a troll. Is he a jerk sometimes? Yes. But just being hard to live with does NOT make one a troll and neither does bringing up a good argument once in a while. But to try to claim that that's all Techcrunch does is simply false and I won't let it stand in the comment thread that I started. - Robert Scoble

Makes me wonder if Ryo knows who defaced Arrington's wikipedia page... - George Hall (Australia)

the ip addresses are there in the history George - Chris Heath

Hope Wikipedia rectifies it. - George Hall (Australia)

Arrington really opened up a lot in that conversation with Leo. I think his explanations there really explained a lot on why he has to wear a thick skin and act the way others perceive at times. The way he manned up and apologized to Leo I think was very impressive. I will forever see him in different eyes now - I really respect Arrington since yesterday. - Jesse Stay

And Robert, have you consoled Tina yet? she seemed pretty down in here recent tweet: http://friendfeed.com/tinagil... - Chris Heath

Jesse, me too - Chris Heath

There's a few of us who have a lot of respect for Arrington and his principles. - George Hall (Australia)

George, a few million you mean, right? - Chris Heath

Robert: If Mike Arrington feels THAT strong about 'the mob' - why didn't he delete his Twitter feed too? Could it be the hundreds of thousands of followers he has been 'gifted' because of his 'special relationship' with the Twitter guys? - Jim Connolly

That too, Chris. You probably have a better idea than me of exact numbers. - George Hall (Australia)

It's sad too that all this fuss over a mere misunderstanding in a show gets so out of hand, because it affects the families, too. Sad because it's sorted out between Mike and Leo, but a whole bunch of people outside of it take things too far. Seriously, nobody had any right to make threats to Mike. - George Hall (Australia)

I just hope everyone can forgive and can move on with good stories and news. - Darren Lowery

Ryo: That's you. Me, I'm itching to own a crunchpad. - George Hall (Australia)

The Tech News Blog (when do we get to know your real name?) I'm sure he looked at the results he was getting, and I'm 100% sure he was seeing night and day results better on Twitter than FriendFeed. I'm sure he weighed his losses, and FriendFeed wasn't worth the negative brand image when compared to the traffic he was getting. Mike's a business man - I highly doubt it was anything personal. - Jesse Stay

I really cannot understand all this vehemence against Arrington. Neither can Robert, either, nor a fair few Friendfeed regulars. And Ryo, I really do not understand where your vehemence towards him comes from. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: My name only changed here a few days ago, it's Jim Connolly - full contact details here http://jimsmarketingblog.com/contact... FriendFeed has not given Arrington a negative brand image - he did. - Jim Connolly

Ryo, to understand him I think you really have to put yourself in his shoes. He's had a whole lot of people be jerks to him. I'm sure that would get to you. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: So, if he's so worried about what the mob are saying about his brand, why isn't he worried about his brand on Twitter? - Jim Connolly

Guess you didn't read the right articles, Ryo. - George Hall (Australia)

Jim, I'm sure he couldn't afford to lose Twitter - that's my guess. FriendFeed I doubt was doing much for him, at least in his eyes. - Jesse Stay

Ryo, would I be an asshole for having something against hate groups? And if I did, would you still be saying it's my fault for *insert whichever reason*? - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I have no problem with him leaving FriendFeed, I just call bullshit on him suggesting it was the mob that drove him out. If it was the mob, he would have left Twitter, where they are REALLY attacking the guy. For the record, as a Tech News blogger myself, I have a lot of respect for what he has achieved. - Jim Connolly

Many people on the Interwebs are idiots--just look at nearly any YouTube comment! I'm not sure I buy that Arrington is that sensitive about how people have reacted--he's an Internet professional and he more than anyone should understand these outrageous, hate-filled comments are just a bunch of blowhard a-holes. That being said, Arrington had an opportunity to stop Leo and clear the... more... - Paul Salzman

Paul: I know Mike and talked with him at length this morning, both on phone and face to face. He's actually pretty sensitive, but puts on a tough face. It's an interesting part of his personality to see. - Robert Scoble

Ryo: do you buy Apple products? Jobs is a bigger jerk than I've seen Arrington ever be. Ryo: name one newcomer Arrington destroyed. Just one. I'd love to hear his/her story. - Robert Scoble

The Tech News Blog: good point about Twitter. I think Arrington likes that he has half a million followers there while me and Leo have been kicking his ass here on friendfeed (I was kicking his ass on Twitter too, before Twitter added him to the recommended follower list, which zoomed him above me and Leo). - Robert Scoble

TechCrunch leaving Friendfeed is sad, because even when we disagree with each other, it is nice to have a discussion going. - Mike Chelen

Robert: I know about you and Leo kicking is butt on Twitter before the recommended list started. (I have been chatting with you on Twitter for well over a year now!) - Jim Connolly

Robert: Re Twitter followers, seen this from earlier: http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009... - Jim Connolly

On Twitter Mike's personal account http://twitter.com/arrington has a mere 5 thousand followers, it is the TC account with 680 thousand, whilst on FF he had his personal twitter as well as TC feeding in. See the google cache here: http://209.85.229.132/search... - Jack

The Tech News Blog: engagement levels on Twitter are interesting, agreed. I've seen the bot behavior too. Twitter's team seems unconcerned. Ryo: it's bullshit to say you were destroyed by TechCrunch. If anything getting Arrington to say negative things about you focuses the world's attention on you and people (especially his competitors) rush to check out whether or not he's correct. If he wasn't right, that guy would have gained even more followers. - Robert Scoble

Jack: the TC account used to be Mike's personal Twitter account before that account got added to the recommended follower list. Now he's used that just to stream TC links. He used to have conversations with lots of us on Twitter in the old days using that account. - Robert Scoble

It's ironic, though, that getting half a million people to follow you means you can't even get 10,000 people to follow your other account. The engagement isn't there. Getting engagement is much more difficult than most people understand. - Robert Scoble

Ryo, have you ever considered that the example you've just quoted probably didn't have a great product to begin with, or may have had stuff that really needed more work? If the product's good, no blogger with influence would really affect things. But if he points out a potential product needs major work or is complete crap, go get the product right and stop blaming messengers like Arrington. - George Hall (Australia)

George: exactly right. I totally bashed Amazon's first Kindle. it still sold very well because it did have real value (it just was designed poorly). The Amazon team was never as nice to me after that, but I know people who bought it after watching my review and deciding I was wrong about the device, so in the end, I'm pretty sure I helped them out more than I hurt them. A great product withstands all criticism. - Robert Scoble

Exactly, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

I'm going to have to take issue with you there Robert. Respected reviewers CAN affect the success of a product. That's why we must demand that they review ethically and thoughtfully. - invariant - farewell FF

Ryo, sounds like you didn't hear the aftermath gillmor gang session on saturday http://ia311238.us.archive.org/3... - Chris Heath

Don't forget about the first part: http://www.archive.org/downloa... Mike spoke very kindly about Rajeev Motwani before the shouting began. - Jack

Friendfeed is better than Twitter, yet he wants to stay with Twitter, COZ its driving traffic to his blog and nothing else - Michael_techie

invariant: we can have some impact, yes, but if only one person is picking on something and is picking on something wrongly it can often have the opposite effect. A good product WILL stand up to Mike Arrington or anyone else for that matter. - Robert Scoble

well what he said after in the second session was serious too - and he claims the pre stuff was in jest and misunderstood - Chris Heath

Chris: he didn't quite say "in jest" but that he was trying to point out that Palm sends review units to those who have given Palm a good set of PR over the last few months. He might actually have a point there but that point was lost both because Arrington started pushing Leo's buttons and because Leo responded to that with an outburst that I haven't seen Leo do ever (and I've been following Leo since the mid 1990s). - Robert Scoble

right robert... but the 'what are you gonna do about it?' he claims was in jest - Chris Heath

Chris: yeah. That's just Mike being Mike. He does the same thing with me to try to push my buttons. Sometimes he succeeds with me too. ;-) - Robert Scoble

and robert... one question about the PR stuff... isn't it fully in Palm's rights and best interests to give out review units as they see fit? isn't that the point of PR? to get the review units out to those you think will give the best reviews? - Chris Heath

Robert, I don't know about that. Something from a company like Amazon, sure. They have the muscle to keep it going. But something from a startup running on a shoestring? A bad review from the right person could kill it. Look at what Engadget/Gizmodo (I can't remember which) did to the Folio - a product that was a netbook a year or so before the Eee PC. - invariant - farewell FF

Chris: yes. And that's why the practice is a little dirty. - Robert Scoble

but isn't that to be expected as core part of what PR is? - Chris Heath

invariant: any company that has all of its hopes hinged on one review is a company that's setup to fail. When I bring out a product I'll assume I'm going to get bad reviews. In fact, that's what I'm expecting with building43. If someone bashes it it won't stop me. I'll learn from it and move on and make it better. - Robert Scoble

Yeah, but the Folio wasn't quite the EEEPC...it was just an oversized Palm Pilot. Not even with an adequate OS for the size of the thing. - George Hall (Australia)

kind of like the old saying don't hate the player, hate the game? - Chris Heath

Chris: I have come to hate a lot of what PR does. The good ones are very helpful and fair to all comers. - Robert Scoble

But the bad ones... - Robert Scoble

right robert, and if what you're selling is truly good then the product/service doesn't need PR then right? - Chris Heath

George: regarding the Folio: exactly. Bad products can't overcome bad reviews. - Robert Scoble

I still think if a review kills anything, the product wasn't right to begin with. And I know that from my cartooning experience over twenty years ago. Critics are harshest when something's clearly crap. You just can't afford to be precious about a creation that's crap. You take the criticism the proper way and go do a better product. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo seems to be hating the player and the messenger. Wonder if we should ask why. - George Hall (Australia)

Chris: if something really is great PR should only need to facilitate the press seeing it, finding that out, and holding it. I loved the Palm Pre as soon as I saw it on screen and nothing has changed my mind about that since. No PR person needed to give me one. Although the fact that they did made it easier to form an even deeper opinion that it's great. - Robert Scoble

Yikes! - Fred Davis

George: remember, I've been at the harsh end of Arrington's stick. You should go read what he said about PodTech. What he said stung and hurt but it was right and the company wasn't going in a good direction. Arrington just helped everyone's attention focus on that. Could we have pulled it out without that attention? Maybe, but I doubt it in hind site. - Robert Scoble

Palm still need to do something about the sharp edges, though - George Hall (Australia)

night everyone... cy'all later - Chris Heath

Are you saying it's impossible for a great product to fail due to negative publicity? Color me incredulous. - invariant - farewell FF

George: I'm playing with a Pre right now and I don't think the edges are overly sharp. If they did something about them it would pronounce the gaps where the phone slides together. - Robert Scoble

invariant: name a great product that failed due to negative publicity and let's talk. - Robert Scoble

Sometimes even if an idea is ours, it might need work...or it might be crap. Sometimes it's good someone points that out to us. I don't mind a good critic. They're great for getting your idea more focused and improved. - George Hall (Australia)

Robert: was watching a review that showed the edges when opened are sharp enough to cut cheese. - George Hall (Australia)

George: must be really soft cheese. Geesh. - Robert Scoble

Lol - George Hall (Australia)

I mean, can't we all just get along? But then again, I do remember learning as a journalist that controversy sells... even if it does come at a price... - Fred Davis

Exactly, Fred. Heck, a bit of negative publicity actually sells more things... - George Hall (Australia)

George: even there, though, if I read that review that the Palm Pre had sharp edges, all it would make me do is go and hold one and see if they bugged me. If they did, I'd get an iPhone or a Blackberry. If not, well, sold! If that's the worst thing they can say about the Palm Pre, it's actually doing pretty damn well! On the other hand, now I'm going down to the kitchen to see if mine will cut cheese. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

LOL. Palm Pre as cheese knife...now there's a hitherto-unknown use for it. - George Hall (Australia)

Heck,most of us here WANT to see the Palm Pre do well...and Palm themselves. But we'd all like to hope they do listen when some of us do point out where it needs a fine-tune. - George Hall (Australia)

Palm Brie? - Mel Buckpitt

Hmmm....Ryo...you can put NO to most of your questions. I just dislike when someone makes a personal attack on a guy for doing his job. Or when he's blamed for some person's misperception of how much influence he has over whether a product sells or not. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: interesting that you use the same tactics that Arrington used with Leo. That's sorta weird. - Robert Scoble

I still maintain that the Folio was one of those products. It was a netbook before we even knew what to call them, and it was killed before it was even released by a web site that couldn't imagine the utility of a small, low cost portable. It may have had flaws, but so did the first Eee PC. Who knows what it could have become? - invariant - farewell FF

Yeah, Robert, but we at least knew where Arrington was coming from. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: the eeepc had a linux/unix operating system with a fair amount of useability. The Folio was, to all intents and purposes, just a larger Palm. Huge difference. And at the time it was brought out, Palm OS was a bit limited. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: well, maybe they shouldn't have shown it to Engadget first. There's lots of others who would have been able to push it along. But some products are simply before their times. Folio didn't excite me and I saw it. I agree with George. Failed OS. Heck, even Palm has given up on that OS. - Robert Scoble

That's not true George. It was based on a linux os just like the Eee. - invariant - farewell FF

Ryo, your comments on Arrington have been accusing him of being a troll. To me, that's treating Arrington a little too personal. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I read all comments and seems to me you're doing the same thing as Arrington. - Robert Scoble

I agree that spiteful comments are not the best way, but at the same time, Mike Arrington really shouldn't have jumped on such a bandwagon. At any rate, I hope that things douse soon!! - Guru Panguji

Actually, Ryo, your comments about Arrington sound very hateful. - George Hall (Australia)

Hmmm...Ryo...pick a number and join the queue. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo, I've been threatened by experts on occasion. I note you don't seem to have any Facebook. Interesting ommision from your list of web/social media concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

You could defend anything the same way. "Well, it got bad reviews because it was a bad product." But to say that reviews have no effect on the success of a product is mind-boggling to me. Why is there an entire industry based on reviewing products if those reviews have no impact on the product's success? - invariant - farewell FF

Good products improve after a bad review. - George Hall (Australia)

George - Or maybe the company's backers lose faith and pull their funding, drowning the baby before it has a chance to grow up. - invariant - farewell FF

if the backers do that, then they don't think the product's worth going with. Whereas a good product won't lose backers. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: name one great product that was kept down by a bad review. Almost every great product has gotten a bad review. - Robert Scoble

Anyway, I'm outta here. Ryo: you can have the last word. It seems you're just pushing my buttons and I have an Apple thread to attend to. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

George, you have a very altruistic view of business. Products get killed all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with how good they are. We'd all be playing games on the Sega Dreamcast II if that weren't the case. - invariant - farewell FF

Admittedly, invariant. Guess I'm still a fan of honest business. - George Hall (Australia)

I seem to remember someone making a mint out of a crap operating system... - George Hall (Australia)

...but by the same token, over the long term, a great product fights back. - George Hall (Australia)

Well take the Dreamcast for example: If Sega would have had more capital they could have kept that business going and potentially been successful, but they just ran out of money. Had nothing to do with the product itself, it had more to do with the business model (i.e. losing money on every console sold). - invariant - farewell FF

And also because another business (Electronic Arts) decided not to support it. - invariant - farewell FF

I think, Invariant, you've pointed out it has less to do with reviews. Bad product OR bad business model. Too easy to fail. Less to do with the review or the reviewer. - George Hall (Australia)

And still no reason to have personal gripes against the reviewer - George Hall (Australia)

George, absolutely. The Dreamcast example was one of a good product that failed, not because of reviews but because of other outside factors. The point is that the good guys do not always win. Reviewers should respect their power and be ethical when they review a product. That's my only point. - invariant - farewell FF

It's just trying to make someone like Arrington a scapegoat for a product - George Hall (Australia)

's troubles. - George Hall (Australia)

Whoa, that's not what I was trying to do at all. - invariant - farewell FF

Of course, a product maker should always expect a review may not always go the way they want... - George Hall (Australia)

Regardless of anything Mike's done in the past to piss people off, I felt bad when I read the update on his post. It's really seemed like he was shook up from the comments he received. Considering the nature of them, I can't blame him. This might seem trivial, but it’s obvious that he was worried or he would have taken the time to correct the punctuation in his update. From my perspective, he’s comes across like an extremely sensitive guy, who has a few issues to deal with, just like the rest of us. - Michael Fidler

I'm just pointing out that reviewers DO have power, and that power can both positively impact or negatively impact the success of a product. As a maker of video games I have direct experience with that. - invariant - farewell FF

I doubt he will do it, but he needs to make more time for himself. If he does, I’m sure he would be a lot less abrasive and a lot happier too. You work equally hard Robert, but you love what you do, and it shows. Does Mike love what he’s does, or is it just work for him now? - Michael Fidler

I don't think Arrington expected to see people behave with such bile and vehemence over such an issue. And of course that would upset him. And it upsets Robert, too, because Robert is still his friend, even if he and Mike occasionally have an intellectual disagreement. - George Hall (Australia)

To be clear I have NO opinion on Mike or the work he does. I assume he's an ethical reviewer and I haven't heard otherwise. I just wanted to address Robert's notion that a good product will succeed despite reviews. I simply do not believe that's true 100% of the time. - invariant - farewell FF

Heck, a few weeks back, Arrington and Techcrunch were the only ones who could tell me why Friendfeed was down for a few hours. Google couldn't. Not many other tech blogs could either. And I was glad he helped us stay informed on that situation. - George Hall (Australia)

I feel like a heel for not understanding the true nature of this thread before jumping in. Let me say this in response to the REAL discussion in this thread: people should be ashamed for attacking Mike over something that was obviously a misunderstanding between himself and Leo. I hope Mike shrugs this off and continues to do just what he does now. - invariant - farewell FF

I can't believe the Gillmor gang section is gone. A year's worth of podcasts, just gone. ? WTF? - Karoli from BuddyFeed

Gillmor Gang is back on itunes! http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... - Jack

Jack, glad to see it on iTunes. looks like NewsGang live is toast. I am so bummed. I'm going to bed. :( - Karoli

Or search "Gillmor Gang" in itunes and it's the one marked "Explicit" - Jack

It looks like some of the latest Gillmor Gangs, the ones that were only released live, are now available on iTunes. - Diego Barros 

Looking forward to listening to these. - Diego Barros 

Me too, not sure why the new feed though. The old feed is just sitting there doing nothing. - Matt Thompson

Matt, maybe the new feed's because the audio files (and feed) were living on TechCrunch's servers? Since gillmorgang.techcrunch.com is also gone? Not sure. - Diego Barros 

Leo is the holy Grail of tech for generations, to imply that he is even remotely dishonest is the same as calling all his fans dishonest and stupid, I admit I stopped following Techcrunch because of this incident, but I am not hating on Mike, I understand the jealous inner child in him made him say what he did, we all say bad things and a lynch mob is a little too far in this case. - URLREVIEWS

I think Leo was feeling bad enough for accepting a test unit and Mike's words just sent him over the edge, Leo is honest all the way, anyone who listen to his techguy show knows that, the guy even suggest free alternatives to some of his sponsors, how fan dedicated is that? Leo is Legend. - URLREVIEWS

It all comes down to comments, doesn't it? 1. Long comment threads on Friendfeed are a nightmare to read, especially on a handheld. Can somebody add a threading facility? 2. Anonymous on the internet needs to end. http://twittercism.com/anonymi... It's a poison, and it's the real story behind the Arrington/Laporte spat. - Shéa Bennett

I think the comments went way overboard in their criticism of Arrington. The angle he was approaching his questioning from (that Palm were withholding review units) was legit. Just a shame that there was a misunderstanding on Leos part to interpret it as a question of his integrity. - Jamie

The world is a hurting place and we find it much easier to attack others out of our own pain and dysfunction. Both people were sincere in their position, this example shows you how easy it is to be offended on both sides of the argument just by simply having a different perspective. It does appear Mike was questioning Leo's integrity even though the question was sincere in light of the story Mike was working on. I think we can move on and focus on more important issues. - Owen Greaves

Bloggers must go where the conversation is. TechCrunch is not real time. He'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

Maybe he will, maybe he won't but if he does, there's certainly no reason for anyone to smug and high horsey about it. We were the asshole on this matter, not him - and a strategic withdrawal from the forum was certainly warranted on his part temporary or permanent. - Matthew DeVries

Garin: I think Mike will come to regret deleting his account, just like Leo came to regret deleting his Twitter account. - Robert Scoble

He can always open a new one. - Amit Morson

Matthew: if I ever get to that point where I get tired of dealing with everyone here, I'll just go private. That way if I want to jump back in at a future date I'll still have my account here. I think Mike made a mistake in just deleting his account. Amit: he could, but someone already took the techcrunch URL. For a business to give that up seems to be not smart, but that's just me. - Robert Scoble

A few weeks ago I almost deleted my Twitter account and I'm glad I didn't for just that reason. - Robert Scoble

Robert - I am glad you didn't delete your twitter account ;) Just keep watering the FF garden instead ! - Susan Beebe

Robert - I'm not saying I condone his decision/action, just that I understand it. I'm sure if he were interested in reactivating/undeleting comments Paul et al would figure out a way to make it happen for him. Just that a barrier to his return is the potential for "told you you'd be back" smugness which is entirely unwarranted, and honestly prickish. - Matthew DeVries

Robert, he doesn't have to deal with everyone. There is no need to respond to each and every bad comment made at him. - Amit Morson

Robert: Mike may have lost 600 comments on TechCrunch but this thread already has 760 comments which makes it #1 on best of week, and we're all talking about TechCrunch. I'm impressed. Mike has already won from this move. - Garin Kilpatrick

Garin, considering his loses and TechCrunch scale, I can't see that as a win. - Amit Morson

Arrington has never liked FF, anyway. And what has being here done for him or Techcrunch? Has it increased his brand awareness, made him more money, got him laid? How can it be a loss when it's never been a gain? - Dawn

Amit: The comments Mike lost were stale, this is fresh and undoubtedly building awareness about Mike and TC. The only way Mike has lost is by dropping friendfeed, but at least he has done so in style. Even here he has not lost because as I said before: he'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

He lost his brand name, though I'm sure he can claim it back with FF. - Amit Morson

The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of FF. - Garin Kilpatrick

The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of <strike>FF</strike> all that he surveys. --FTFY Garin - Matthew DeVries

Abuse? I thought these tools were available to use however we wish. I didn't realize there are FF Nazis demanding that their use is the only legitimate use. - Dawn

Dammit Dawn...... - Matthew DeVries

lol Thanks Matthew! - Garin Kilpatrick

Can you say BUTTHURT? - Rustic Thoughts

Glad you waited for 771 comments and 4 days of thoughtful deliberation to bring us that nugget of well thought out brilliance Rustic. The staggering intellectual rigor of your timely, measured, and informed and above all unique point truly brings the discussion to a level that rivals that of the lycium or the Algonquin round table. - Matthew DeVries

Thats a lot of big words for so early in the morning. - Rustic Thoughts

"I didn't realize there are FF Nazi's demanding that their use is the only legitimate use" -- FINALLY... Jeez... I've been sitting here waiting patiently for Godwin's Law to kick it. It's been almost 48hrs since all this happened... must be a new record. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm giving this thread a *facepalm* award for the multiple site/acct deletions (TC/FF & GG/TC), over-the-top comments, and of course Mr. "BUTTHURT" and use of the term "FF Nazi" http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa... - Richard pancakhaus Walker

What goes around comes around. Arrington is getting what he's been asking for, for a long time. - Chris Luckhardt

Totally tangential, but using BuddyFriend to read a thread with 771 comments really isn't a nice experience :) - Ian Betteridge from BuddyFeed

Actually a better idea would have been to make his account private - Abhishek

I can't find the Gillmor Gang section of TechCrunch... could that be removed too? (hopefully just temporarily) - John Wright

John: Yes, it's gone at the moment. - Ken Sheppardson

There's an unofficial Gillmor Gang podcast on itunes here: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... or the RSS here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

This is a tough situation. We all have reached the end of our patience at least once with someone that takes an effort to get along with, especially if we're exhausted by it. Some people are clueless about their impact on others. I've said things in those situations that I meant, but wished I had taken a higher road and said in a better way because it actually makes everything more stressful. - Keith Barrett

Keith: It wasn't just one or two people it was like 20+ people who didn't even know the full story and jumped on the band-wagon. Those 20+ people also didn't bother to read the "Ouch" post on Techcrunch or watch the 2nd Gillmor Gang - infact they probably didn't even watch the first one - they probably just saw the 1minute clip on Youtube. - Nicholas James

What a shame. What a shame this is still a mob. I've purposefully ignored this whole skirmish, having seen this coming a few weeks ago when the GG went to hell for an evening, and then another wee when Mike hung up and bailed on the show. It is a shame that Mike felt it necessary to delete his friendfeed account. It's also a shame that Mike seems to egg (mob)people on to the point of... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

invariant: the impact reviewers have is strongest on their readers, and their own reliability. if an author does not evaluate products honestly it will cause their audience, which may only be a small fraction of the total market, to make more poorly informed decisions and thereby undermines the value of their writing. - Mike Chelen

Robert - Thanks for starting this thread. The calm voices and mostly sensitive nature of the comments have helped me begin to heal. I am emerging from this very trying weekend a changed person, trampled by a crowd wearing combat boots. I now know how scary mobs are. - Tina Chase Gillmor

Tina: I once was in a real mob after a San Francisco 49er Super Bowl victory (I drove through it) and I've never been so terrified. It's interesting that my friend who told me off for pushing a mob a couple of years ago has been quiet with this mob. Ahh, I love studying how people work. Keep it up, let's get back in the saddle, what Steve, Mike, and you are doing is interesting. That's why the mob formed in the first place so don't forget that. - Robert Scoble

*sigh* mobs suck - Susan Beebe

If you have a mob that theoretically can be pushed at someone, you should be judged separately. It's like being a pro karate fighter - treated in court like a weapon. - Kirill Bolgarov

Oh, by the way. techcrunch sucks and so does mashable. of course it's my personal opinion, but they have gone too far in the battles over traffic and pageviews. their destination is a tabloid with a few to no real value. the only reason i could click on a ЕС link was a good discussion onver it on friendfeed. so, they completely lost at least one reader because of their CEO's personal stuff. that's not that professional i guess - Kirill Bolgarov

iPhone: Wao || 大号真皮人偶

New iPhone ? some clues ~

June 4 - Comment - Like - Share

Brodie Beta, peter huesken, Rodfather and 2 other people liked this

32GB yum... - Aaron Hood

Robert Scoble

I love that Bing means "Bing Is Not Google." very creative. Heh.

May 28 - Comment - Like - Share

buluzhai, Carlos Caicedo, Kirill Bolgarov and 57 other people liked this

I have seen this on an internal MS slide....don't have a copy to share sorry :-( - Clifford Kennedy

41 more comments

BORING would have been better as in BOR Is Not Google. - Alex Scoble

Live is not Google either, doesn't make it any better. - Brian Schwartz

And that's supposed to be a positive thing? I am looking forward to Wave...now that's Google. - Troy Malone

Hmmm. - Kol Tregaskes

I suspect that BIG would have been better. - Guan Yang

Oh, that is classic. Reminds me of WINE for Linux (Wine Is Not an Emulator). - Sokkratez

That narrows it down. - Ryan

Is that anything like GNU's Not Unix? - Dan Messer

http://video.google.com/videopl... - Reminds me of MS packaging the iPod vid - Brian Schwartz

It must have been Ballmer's idea. - Jared Mehle

I could see that being perverted to things like: Bing is not great, Bing is no good, Bing is now gone, Ballmer is not God etc. - Andrew Fowler

Guhmshoo++ - Chris Heath

Guhmshoo just showed how little thought Microsoft put in to the name. - Alex Scoble

They're all hype and no substance. They thought a clever name would get them in the game, and it make them look dumb. I'm guessing Bing is Live with a new name. - Chris Spizzirri

Are they allowed to even use Google as part of their name? Clearly bing is just an abreviation if this is really the case and I would of thought that would be a no no. - Simon Wicks

Ballmer Is Not Glad. - Victor Panlilio

Ballmer is no Gates - Larry Hawes

could have other variants bing is no good , not gnu either ;) - bob phillips

And what would be the meaning of WAVE (WAVE Alters Visual Expressions)? - peter huesken

They probably don't want to use the phrase "to bingle" either. See: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define... - Andrew Fowler

This goes all the back (probably beyond) "GNU" == GNU's Not UNIX" - John F. McMullen

@guhmshoo I say we turn it around and start plugging the phrase "to bingle" as /the/ word for the usage of Bing #bing #fail - peter huesken

TINT Is Not Teco is from 1977 or '78. - Bruce Lewis

sadly the first thing that comes to mind when i hear "Bing" is Chandler from Friends. I'm sure that's not a good thing either. - John Wang

John Wang: +1. The next thing I thought of after Chandler was WENUS, which definitely is not a good thing! :>) - Larry Hawes

I wouldn't be surprised if the next trending hashtag topic will be #bingstandsfor? - Gil Francisco III

BING = Bartz Is No Go - Gerald Buckley

At least it's not "evil" spells backwards. - Matt Cutts

@Matt lol - imabonehead

is BING run using GNU software? recursive acronyms FTW. - Andrew Feinberg

They may have chosen the word hoping that it will be used in the future like google is used today. "Just Google it!" "Oh, I don't know the answer to that question Bob. Hold on for a second while I bing it." =) - Mike Smith

Chandler BING aka The Dropper - Joe Dawson

Of course, "Bing" means "jail": http://www.urbandictionary.com/define... - Matt Furey

And "Bing" is also the Scottish mining term for "slag heap" the waste materials from mining... hmm not sure I'd be wanting that connotation Microsoft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Belinda Simcox (Sim)

That actually seems kinda lame. How many good products use a competitor's name in their own? Aside from the Zune, Microsoft's marketing department is one of the worst aspects of this company. - David Chartier from BuddyFeed

Bingisnotgoogle.com actually points to Google search. Interesting! - Arpit Dhariwal

it's a nice web search but I honestly don't think anything will replace Google search. It's just too common. People should just move on. What honestly would replace Google as the #1 search engine? - Toby Howell

It's a little late for MicroSoft to be turning to Open Source-flavored linguistic wordplay for salvation. - Chris Keene

wow that was good. I think BING = Bing is Not Good. - Alp

cool! - Jason Pollock

the colloquial version: BANG = BANG Ain't No G[whatever] - 9000

Bing actual returns pretty decent results, buts its going to take a revolutionary product to displace Google and unfortunately for Microsoft, BING is not it... - Oral Seymour

Zee. to Zee.'s feed, TheNextWeb Forum, Appetite

Google recently made it possible to share individual feeds and folders from Google Reader (they're called Bundles). Share your favorite bundles here:

May 23 - Comment - Like - Share

Kathleen Capps, Daniel Rowley, Molly and 111 other people liked this

This is how you find them: http://thenextweb.com/2009... and this is 150 of the most influential Tech Blogs & sites http://www.google.com/reader... - Zee.

39 more comments

not all at once now :P - Zee.

Nice Bundle Zee - Nicholas James

sounds almost naughty when you say it like that... :) - Zee.

@Zee I get a message "invalid stream name" after clicking on your link from iPhone - Roberto from fftogo

does anyone else get the same? - Zee.

Works fine for me Zee: ""150 of the Most Influential Tech News and Blogs" bundle created by Zee Description: Spent ages collecting these and here they for everything to enjoy. A bundle is a collection of blogs and websites hand-selected by your friend on a particular topic or interest. You can keep up to date with them all in one place by subscribing in Google Reader. There are 175 feeds included in this bundle" - Nicholas James

clearly a lot of people like the idea of this but not the sharing part - Zee.

This actually is a smart move from Google. This "bundles" feature now makes it much easier for new users to get started with lots of sources in Google Reader. Now even people that aren't ahead-of-the-curve-social-media-experts can enjoy the wonderful benefits of having too much to read. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

Apple Code: Mac & iPhone Development: http://www.google.com/reader... - Jason Wehmhoener

Data Design: Datavis, Charts, Graphs: http://www.google.com/reader... - Jason Wehmhoener

Hallelujah! I could kiss Jason. I've never had so many like but not share. - Zee.

Experience Design: UX, UE, Interaction Design: http://www.google.com/reader... - Jason Wehmhoener

Visual: Design, Art, Typography, Etc: http://www.google.com/reader... - Jason Wehmhoener

Tech News http://ff.im/-3bKg5, Mozilla News http://ff.im/-3bKg4 - LouCypher

you the man Lou - Zee.

and LOLfeeds http://ff.im/-3bKUC. Thanks, Zee - LouCypher

I'm loving this thread. I went and grabbed the newsier bundles from this thread and pulled them into a room. I'll keep adding to that too. guruvy-headlines: http://friendfeed.com/guruvy-... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

seriously, you guys suck! :P 64 likes and only 3 people have shared their bundles... - Zee.

Zee: no one believes me when I say that very few people are using Google Reader. I have more than 40x more people reading me here than on Google Reader and I was the #1 user of Google Reader for quite a while (according to the Google Reader team). That's just one small reason why I've shifted over to where the readers are: Facebook, Twitter, and friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

Hey, it would be interesting to ask how many people still use Google Reader. See, i think loads and loads do, but few bother sharing or socializing via it. - Zee.

Zee: according to my blog's referer log you're wrong. Measurement tells all. :-) - Robert Scoble

Boy, this sounds interesting! I gotta try it.. - Raj Rikhy

Omg this is so great! - Marika Dye

@Robert but don't you share your full content via RSS? - Zee.

I don't always visit reader because it can simply be overwhelming. Friendfeed and Twitter are more amenable to "partial attention" whereas Reader pretty much requires total focus for an extended period if I'm going to get use out of it. I only have that kind of time once every week or so, whereas I can keep Tweetie running most of the time without feeling too distracted by it. - Jason Wehmhoener

Jason -- the key to using Google Reader effectively (for me) is to focus on a few carefully defined folders, and feel under no pressure whatever to "catch up" with all your unread items. Just skim off the cream. - Sean McBride

some WordPress feeds: https://www.google.com/reader... - Jeroen De Miranda

I love my Google Reader but MAN I wish organization were easier. - Mona Nomura

Mona -- ever try dragging and dropping a GR folder from one location to another when you have a long list of folders? :) It's surrealistic. - Sean McBride

Though I use my reader you see my preference in the fact I went and aggregated these bundles here. I only use it as quick storage of feed addresses and to make sure I don't miss important items from my favorite writers that might have been missed in the noise. But now I'm starting to use the same client I use for most of my twitter and friendfeed to get my rss, PeopleBrowsr :) - guruvan (Rob Nelson) from f2p

thats very interesting. Thanks for the hard work Zee. And I think you're right in your comment that many people still use Greader, though they might not use it as a sharing tool. - Peter Efland

http://www.google.com/reader... - Wayne Sutton

我的海派文化：http://www.google.com/reader... - qian

Sean, it sounds nice, and it works for a while, but I seem to collect feeds faster than our floor collects fur from our two dogs and two cats. I've found that I get more out of it if I don't "skim" but actually devote a solid chunk of time to it (just not very regularly). - Jason Wehmhoener

Jason -- by "skim off the cream" I meant to pay very close attention to the small set of GR items that really matter, and to use folders to corral those items. (Skim off, not skim.) - Sean McBride

That "small set" just isn't very small for me. Got lotsa folders. - Jason Wehmhoener

@Jason which "small set"? - Zee.

Sean is talking about a way of narrowing down Google Reader content, paying attention to "small set of GR items that really matter" but I'm saying that the items that really matter to me actually make up a somewhat large set. - Jason Wehmhoener

I've got over 1,000 GR feeds and over 100 GR folders, but I tend to gravitate towards and focus on a few folders in which the most interesting stuff clusters most strongly. - Sean McBride

Robert Scoble

I thought friendfeed would be the biggest threat to Twitter but I now see it's Seesmic Desktop. Come here and we'll discover why:

May 23 - Comment - Like - Share

Chris Baskind, Thierry R. Andriamirado, Curt Mercadante and 152 other people liked this

1. It has list management like friendfeed has. Twitter doesn't. - Robert Scoble

430 more comments

2. It lets you display both Facebook and Twitter messages. - Robert Scoble

3. It lets you search both Facebook and Twitter messages. - Robert Scoble

4. It displays them all better than Twitter does. - Robert Scoble

5. Friendfeed Support in the works. - Jimminy Fuller

6. It lets you comment on Facebook postings - Lee Herman

it sucks all the memory out of my machine. performance suffers. I want to like it. I don't. - Karoli

5. Seesmic desktop (and TweetDeck, which really does most of the same stuff that Seesmic Desktop does) does DM's better than Twitter or Facebook do. - Robert Scoble

Are you arguing that a 3rd party twitter application is a threat to twitter? - Frankie Warren

Karoli: I don't care. I run it on its own machine. It can suck all the memory it wants! - Robert Scoble

Frankie: I can see a case for that, yes. - Robert Scoble

It makes it easy to mark spammers. - Jimminy Fuller

6. What happens when you add all your data into Seesmic Desktop and Twitter is down? Oh, move over to Seesmic's own service! - Robert Scoble

Robert, I don't have that luxury. Plus, it's still a client. How can it threaten Twitter when it needs twitter.? - Karoli

6B: Twinkle on iPhone already does exactly that. Tweetie has 200,000 plus members who DO NOT NEED TWITTER ANYMORE!!! Update I origionally said Tweetie but it is Twinkle that has its own database. Sorry. - Robert Scoble

Karoli: It isn't exclusive to Twitter. - Jimminy Fuller

A twitter client threatens the existence of twitter?! - Joshua Lee

Only thing that is a threat to Twitter, is Twitter. - Fake Elmo

Karoli: look at Twinkle. They show the way. They have 200,000 people who are on their own service now, even though most of them think they are only on Twitter. - Robert Scoble

I use tweetie. They still rely on twitter's firehose. - Karoli

Including myself... haha care to elaborate Robert about tweetie - Frankie Warren

Karoli: wrong. I was just at their headquarters and Tweetie has its own database and can send messages EVEN WHEN TWITTER IS DOWN!!! - Robert Scoble

Karoli: Tweetie has two databases for each member. One for Twitter. One for its own back end. - Robert Scoble

robert, to everyone on my twitter lists, including those NOT using tweetie? - Karoli

Karoli: no, not to everyone. Right. - Robert Scoble

I really *really* wish they would fix it so we can resize the main display panel .. it is really irritating to see it "squished" while the other panels are resizable - Steven Hodson

Karoli: but what happens when all your friends are on Tweetie or Seesmic Desktop? Will you care anymore? - Robert Scoble

I agree with joshua, these are clients, they don't live without the parent service. I don't see how seesmic desktop threatens twitter. - Nitin Gupta

Stop exposing the secrets of us Twitter developers Robert - you're ruining the plan! - Jesse Stay

Jesse: sorry. When you all pay me something I'll shut up. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert, that's my point. There is interdependence here. All my friends will not be on one or the other. Blackberry users will use Twitterberry. Twittelator is a player here too. I couldn't give a rip about Facebook -- it's one of those necessary evils i have to have but hate. - Karoli

Robert: Does Seesmic do the same thing as Tweetie in terms of redundancy? - Frankie Warren

Nitin: if I got everyone in the world to use Seesmic Desktop why will we need Twitter? Not to mention, why will you pay for "pro" version of Twitter or look at any of its advertising? - Robert Scoble

Interesting. I said the same thing about tweetie desktop and friendfeed - Christian Anderson

AIR apps are a mess, but from an HCI point of view, and from a technical point of view. Native apps please. Tweetie is wonderful. - Jason Wehmhoener

Oooh - I can buy Robert out? ;-) More to my plan for world domination... - Jesse Stay

Jason... yes, native apps, OR web apps. - LogEx

You're not going to make everyone use Seesmic Desktop, you'll pry Nambu from my cold dead fingers. - Joshua Lee

Karoli: I think it's funny you write off Facebook. Looking at the two streams side by side Facebook's is a lot better. There are far better quality people on Facebook in my account than there are on Twitter for the most part. Plus on Facebook there are 225 million. On Twitter? 30 million. - Robert Scoble

You could twitpay Robert a buck to buy his silence. - Louis Gray

Robert, your enthusiasm is infectious, but the hyperbole is still a little on the high side...I think Tweetie is an excellent app. I like Loic and Seesmic desktop but won't use it. I use Tweetie for my desktop app now, and it still needs some tweaking. - Karoli

Robert, I don't write it off. I just hate it. - Karoli

Joshua: what if Nambu, Seesmic Desktop, Tweetie, and TweetDeck made their own database? - Robert Scoble

For me, in terms of signal, FriendFeed trumps Facebook which trumps Twitter. - Louis Gray

Sounds more like someone doesn't like twitter very much. - Mac Sharp

I agree with Jason. AIR apps look so unnatural. Usability is nil - Bogdan Costea

The first thing I would do to Facebook is nuke the frackin' IQ app. - Karoli

Friendfeed is excellent in a browser, but Twitter is awful on the web. Twitter really needs Tweetie. - Jason Wehmhoener

Karoli: hyperbole is what gets people to engage and think differently. - Robert Scoble

I don't suppose Seesmic's secret plan might happen to involve an open alternative to Twitter on the back end, would it? If it's a threat to Twitter in that it allows people to use Twitter, Facebook, or FriendFeed interchangeably as a back end protocol...sure... yeah... I can see that. If the idea is Seesmic could swap out their own network? Bah. Don't buy it. - Ken Sheppardson

Robert, as long as we're clear on the motive, I'm good. - Karoli

But after all,it is just a client for Twitter and Facebook. - Steve Chou from IM

Tweetie is practically the only reason I even feel bad about leaving Twitter - James Poling

for Windows users bDule is looking to be a serious contender .. still needs work but like Seesmic Desktop it's an alpha - Steven Hodson

Ryo: have you tried the new Seesmic? I like it as much as Tweetdeck at minimum. - Robert Scoble

I have moved from TweetDeck to Seesmic Desktop. I am here on FriendFeed, just b/c you invited me to come discuss :) Also, did anyone using SDT notice that you can set up numerous active search columns and you don't hit API limits. thinking that TD used API count for everything from Profile view to search columns? Don't quote me, I'm drinking. LOL. - Zaneology

Zane: heheh! - Robert Scoble

Louis, done - Robert, $1 your way via Twitpay and Amazon Payments ;-) - Jesse Stay

7. It let's you give up all your system resources in a single bound. - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

James: there's a new version of Tweetie coming. - Robert Scoble

i learn so much from being on friendfeed and reading all these brilliant threads! thank u scoble! - Jason Pollock

I think it's funny how people are writing Seesmic Desktop off as just a Twitter client. It's set up to be so much more all you have to do is look at everything Twhirl had built into it. Freindfeed, Laconi.ca, Seesmic, Twitter, and Identi.ca. It wouldn't be to hard to create a redundant system for it using Laconi.ca. - Jimminy Fuller

James: and the real battle will be over search. Imagine what Seesmic Desktop can do with comparative searches between Facebook, Twitter, Friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

Rahsheen ++++ - Karoli

Has anyone tried PeopleBrowsr ? - Zaneology

YES LOVE SEESMIC DESKTOP! B U T ...... it does take a WHOPPING amount of memory for such a small app... at present, I have a dual core 4gb RAM PC... and Seesmic desktop is taking: 98,456k ... actually more than OUTLOOK and EXPRESSION WEB! so... it is good, but maybe this is an Adobe AIR thing of course rather than Seesmic... hey lets face it, Adobe hardly have compact low memory code do they? like the idea.. but because of the memory, cannot justify using it. - David Sheardown

James: exactly. Zane I like PeopleBrowsr too. - Robert Scoble

i still think that all this talk of the next thing that everyone will move to is a bit premature... twitter will continue to dominate for some time - Jason Pollock

Scoble: are you inferring that it will support friendfeed? - James Poling

But if twitter is down,those clients can do nothing - Steve Chou

James: Loic says that friendfeed support is coming to Seesmic Desktop. I'll keep bugging him until he does it anyway. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I can't agree more. I'm still using Twhirl for it's filter feature. I can filter my stream so nicely with it to extract data I want. - Jimminy Fuller

the general public is still getting used to twitter.. us geeks can talk about the next thing until we're blue in the face but its going to be all about twitter for a while and I think we all know it:) - Jason Pollock

Jason: don't be so sure. Remember a few years ago MySpace was on top of the world. Twitter will probably pass MySpace next year. - Robert Scoble

To get back to your thesis, the only thing that can kill Twitter is Twitter. - Christian Anderson

A client is redundant if the service(s) no longer exist! That is like a "chicken or the egg" discussion. - Allan Besselink

Robert: Told him to make a better user interface by the way,I still don't like Seesmic too much. - Steve Chou

Robert: I can't wait to see how Loic integrates it into SD. It's much more complicated to fit into that platform than Twhirl's. - Jimminy Fuller

Robert: i agree that it will be a few years tho.. and by the time twitter is on the decline who knows what will be out by then! - Jason Pollock

Jason: the general public is going to start seeing that search is very important for them to find people talking about things they care about. I can see a world where Seesmic's search will be better than even friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

I tried seesmic desktop for a view minutes but it was so not intuitive that I quit trying it. - rick

Loic ignores serious usability issues. I'm not optimistic for him. - Jason Wehmhoener

Twitter is indeed becoming more popular, I saw a feature on network news about it. If something like twitter is noticed by mainstream media, it's already passed the threshold of being not just for geeks long ago. - Joshua Lee

Jason: Seesmic Desktop is much more usable than it used to be. - Robert Scoble

I just installed the latest version - Jason Wehmhoener

same mess - Jason Wehmhoener

Lets say all the twitter clients work together to build a common database in laconi.ca.. Will we still need twitter? - Varun "Maverick" Pitale

PeopleBrowsr seems quite unintuitive to me. - Chuck Baggett

robert: i agree that real-time search is the the wave of the future and it is the reason that twitter is so dominant right now... too bad the twitter search is always down.. lol.. im definitely going to download the new seesmic right now tho!:) - Jason Pollock

I'm not sure why adobe air twitter apps are so popular, native apps are much more usable and use less resources. - Joshua Lee

Robert: track is the key. - Karoli

Robert, don't all these sources just scream out for common interface pipes? Isn't that the key? Seems like we'll see more and more Tweetdecks, Seesmics, FF, FB Thwirls and Tweeties, all of which will have their pluses, but they all gotta' pass data and interact, like multiple networking protocols going thru a router...right? - Michael Metz

Twitter has a history of killing it's most popular features. How long until they kill real-time search? - Christian Anderson

Karoli: track is coming. - Robert Scoble

If I hear "track" one more time I'm going to scream - Jesse Stay

Christian: they won't kill realtime search. It's the only way they have of monitising twitter. - Joshua Lee

/me passes Jesse some Valium - Steven Hodson

I have track - it's called TweetBeep - Jesse Stay

Christian: I think they already did ;) try searching for something you've said recently. - Frankie Warren

Jesse: track, track TRACK - Karoli

Karoli can I twitpay you a dollar as well? - Jesse Stay

Christian: Frankie is right. Twitter's search is horrid. - Robert Scoble

Seesmic Desktop is getting more friendly on system resources with each build - now it will run for days with the very small increase in memory over time - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Twitter is technically mediocre in general, it proves that if you have a good concept, the technical execution is secondary. Unfortunately. - Joshua Lee

Jesse, sure. :) - Karoli

I seriously doubt that Seesmic Desktop is going to kill Twitter. Besides the people talking on here now, how many people even know what Adobe AIR is? Or what Seesmic is? Look how slow people were to find out about Twitter. I am pulling for FriendFeed:) - Shawn Hickman

I still am a little lost... what do these companies gain by building their own phantom networks behind twitter? It's not like they can just flip the switch off on twitter and expect to keep their users. As it stands, twitter is the only thing that links all these different clients. - Frankie Warren

I love Friendfeed, but i admit...i do not like the name. :) - Karoli

I actually just switched to it today. Though I wish they would do some interface tweaks, but I'm sure they will over time. Able to move the tweetbox around, and be able to take the menu on the right and make it tabs on the top. Just simplify it a bit. - Dean Clark

Joshua: the most important thing about social networks is "are the people I want to follow on it?" Nothing else really matters that much. But once they are, watch the tide move. - Robert Scoble

Shawn: I agree with you, I tried to tell my sister, who just joined twitter, to use a client. She emailed me back like I was some kind of geek! (Well, I am.) - Joshua Lee

our goal isn't to "kill" Twitter with Seesmic Desktop - but rather to allow you to read/use Twitter along side other sources - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Twitter is getting easier and easier by the day to compete with - look at us here on FriendFeed. We're not talking about it on Twitter. - Jesse Stay

Search is pretty broken right now. when they have trouble scaling, they just kill off whatever functionality is holding them up. Twitter may just become email at some point in the near future. - Christian Anderson

Web Apps are the future, downloading will become a thing of the past - Shawn Hickman

Christian, e-mail is more reliable than Twitter - please no - Jesse Stay

The big thing slowing down FriendFeed integration is their own API (note: that's my personal opinion and not my bosses :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Frankie, I can see some real advantages to building a phantom network behind Twitter. Starting with not having to rely on Twitter and the somewhat arrogant heads of Twitter who do not give a rip about their users. - Karoli

Mike: actually the friendfeed team itself told me that. They know they need to simplify the API. I wonder when we'll see that? - Robert Scoble

Mike, from what I've seen FriendFeed's API is actually more advanced than Twitter's. It's just missing one or two crucial methods. - Jesse Stay

Christian: Yes, Twitter search is dead. Currently hours missing off the top and after 18 days everything disappears. It's a horrible situation for them. - Jimminy Fuller

robert: hopefully very soon - there is a lot of movement to happen when that appears - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I can't tell Twitter to only give me certain pieces of data from a user's profile, for instance. I can do that with FriendFeed. They're much more prepared for API scalability than Twitter is, even now. - Jesse Stay

Mike: what do you do at Seesmic? - Robert Scoble

robert: ops, messaging (xmpp), infrastructure - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Mike: awesome. I can't wait until you have friendfeed. That will seal the deal for you guys. Then it's just going to be a race to see who builds the best search display. - Robert Scoble

robert: (again my personal opinion on SD - I'm a user like you all in this regard) I agree, it's the ability to see and manipulate the various streams that is killer, so not having FF is the pink elephant in the room - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

mentions of 'compete'/'kill' in certain contexts in the comments here sounds kind of petty, encouraging some backwards cut-throat sadomasichism. web 2.0's focus on social networks has facets of co-existence and is mutually beneficial in complementing services. everybody is not necessarily out to kill each other, imo. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Karoli... they would still have to rely on twitter right? Things will get crazy confusing if the applications cant talk to each other. Imagine if verizon phones couldnt call cingular phones and you had to worry about who had what handset... thats where theres a problem with having a Seesmic Network, a Tweetie network etc. EDIT: woah i just said cingular haha - Frankie Warren

blackfeathers: whenever you see me use the word "kill" it means to take over the momentum. - Robert Scoble

Yes, Twitter is broken. We were all here a year ago when Twitter's uptime was like 50%. Still, we stayed. Why? Because the people we wanted t follow were there. And people like Jesse were buuling kick ass sticky apps. I don't see that changing. - Christian Anderson

Being able to use the local twitter search to see tweets within however many miles of a location would be nice *hint* *hint* *hint* That seems to be a part of twitter search many air apps still don't support. - Dean Clark

Christian: me neither. Although there's a new usage model that is in play that Twitter has not locked up. Especially around search and zeitgeist display. - Robert Scoble

Christian - thanks for the compliment. Not sure what you mean by sticky though. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: once you start using SocialToo you can't stop. - Robert Scoble

Dean: Local search would be the shit. It really needs to be implemented - Shawn Hickman

Let's make a rule right now. Kill = lose momentum leader status. That is what we mean when we say "kill" - Christian Anderson

Jesse: that's sticky. I call Facebook "velcro" because it has so much sticking power and lots of little hooks that lock you in. - Robert Scoble

@Mike Taylor .. can we *please* be able to resize the main display panel .. PLEASE - Steven Hodson

I thought FriendFeed was kind of meh, I didn't realize it had this realtime comment feature. I'll have to use it more often. - Joshua Lee

Robert: Unless you're me. I cannot abide all those little sticky velcro stupid things. - Karoli

Joshua: there's a lot of things in friendfeed that lots of Twitterers have no clue about. - Robert Scoble

Ah - thanks again then Christian - that's quite a compliment! We won't be supporting just Twitter for long though, although if Twitter keeps breaking it keeps giving us new things to do to fix it. :-( - Jesse Stay

Steven: trust me, I have my own list of UI issues that I remind the SD devs of weekly ;) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Karoli: oh, really? So if someone tags you in a photo on Facebook you don't look? - Robert Scoble

Not that I underestimate FB. I don't. It's why I have a presence there. I just HATE. IT. - Karoli

@Mike Taylor .. well at least I know I'm not alone then :) - Steven Hodson

Robert, no...I'm the chick behind the camera - Karoli

I just don't believe in support applications that are unnecessarily hogs as far as memory goes. Yes AIR apps tend to be on the larger size, but look at DestroyTwitter. John Hallman manages to get his AIR client to consume less than 70MB of memory. - Alex Knight

Karoli: you're a better man than I am then. :-) - Robert Scoble

Steven: also, if you twitter to @seesmic - our customer team tracks all of the suggestions and gets them to the UI Devs - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Mike: you should open a friendfeed room, too. It's even better than Twittering @seesmic. - Robert Scoble

Mike: I have a suggestion, make it look more native on OS X. We Mac users are interface consistency geeks. - Joshua Lee

Alex - one of the things that bit all of the Air devs in the ass recently was the memory leak caused by the xml parser IIRC - now that was a fun one - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

have not try the seesmic desktop... They are the best if they manage to serve local context too.. (Twitter & Friendfeed, not the 3rd party) - Pico Seno

They just did. The Mac buttons are now in their standard place on top of the window left. - Robin Good

Joshua - they are already doing that in small increments - notice the window chrome items changes recently - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I'll have to take another look, especially if you add friendfeed. - Joshua Lee

Robert - If our customer support guy hasn't already I will make sure he does - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I'm a TweetDeck fan, despite the memory suck on my computer. Tweetie is nice on the iPhone, like new Twitterrific better. Seesmic desktop and Tweetie desktop are just OK. - Geoff Peterson

Robert, love your velcro example - thanks for the clarification - Jesse Stay

Mike: cool, I just added you to my secret group for discussing the 2010web. - Robert Scoble

robert: wow - thanks - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Wild 164 comments in 32 minutes. I guess I touched a nerve. - Robert Scoble

You bet, Jesse. You and your app building Ilk have played a huge part in making Twitter what it is today. - Christian Anderson

Robert: either that or you trolled a bit, in a positive way. ;-) - Joshua Lee

Scoble: at the risk of sounding presumptuous can I join in on that 2010web conversation? - James Poling

Joshua: I was mostly trolling Loic who hasn't shown up yet, which makes it even funnier. - Robert Scoble

lol secret group... you know how to work this stuff ;) - Frankie Warren

Robert - that's why i popped in - I know he is doing some family stuff so he's offline right now - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Frankie and Joshua: soon, soon! - Robert Scoble

Frankie: it has to be an elite group in order for 2010web to become a buzzword, from clique to chic. It's the new pardigm. ;-) - Joshua Lee

Mike, I hear a blank AIR app sucks up 20MB. If that's true Adobe has some work to do. - Alex Knight

Joshua: I hated the name "Web 2.0" and am trying to head off the next thing being called "Web 3.0." - Robert Scoble

Alex - yep - your preaching to the choir on that one :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Yeah, we don't need x.0 - definitely. - Joshua Lee

2010web .. hmmmm - Steven Hodson

Mike: thanks for filling in for Loic. His ears must be burning, or will be soon. - Robert Scoble

i like it (2010 web) just because of the Arthur C Clarke memories it brings up - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Robert 2010web is too soon you should have gone with 2013web, just past the apocalypse. - Jimminy Fuller

2010web sounds interesting, but it limits the buzzword for one year. - Joshua Lee

Getting to the topic at hand, how is a Twitter client a threat to Twitter? - Alex Knight

hey lets start a 2011 web secret place:) - Michael Metz

yes thanks Mike and if you open a Friendfeed room add me in please - Steven Hodson

James: I disagree. Most businesses have sites that look like 1994 so 2010 will be very useable for a long time. - Robert Scoble

good point Robert - Steven Hodson

Plus, I always hated the version numbers because the Web doesn't have a version. it's more fashion, like cars. - Robert Scoble

Well im late (in the half hr this has been posted), but i will say that which ever client has the most interesting and frequent updates will prevail, so this debate could go on and on - Chris Nwakalo

And it upgrades constantly. - Robert Scoble

Alex: because these clients secretly piggyback and make their own redundant networks that some think will be able to free the clients of their dependency on twitter. (did i get that right? ;)) - Frankie Warren

Nambu updates fairly frequently. :-) - Joshua Lee

Hey, Robert - it's Yama - I'll be starting a friendfeed room in a bit, but loving the stream here - jyamasaki

I'm trying to get businesses to see that if they are using the 1994 web they'll look pretty lame if their competitors are using the 2010 one. - Robert Scoble

yes. Real-time web might be akin to cold fusion. Guesing vertical and local are the next waves on the web. - Christian Anderson

Anyway, that's all off topic, back to Seesmic and TweetDeck and Tweetie and all the rest. If they all worked together they could totally take away Twitter's air supply. - Robert Scoble

Twitter is definitely on the cusp of something massive. I'm afraid their infrastructure will quickly crumble though. They haven't even figured out a way to make money yet. - Alex Knight

i kind of agree w/ james fuller. there's something too gimmicky w/ all the symmetric number schemes up to 12-12-12 - just for the sake of removing oneself from it, 2013 makes sense to me as a new starting point. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

I find it interesting that many people are willing to pay or donate to developers making Twitter clients. No one donates to Twitter heh. - Alex Knight

blackfeathers: if you are appealing to early adopters and developers you are probably right. I'm trying to appeal to normal business people. They understand that the 2010 automobiles are just now shipping (my 2010 Prius should be here next week) and so if they want to get a modern web site they will understand that they need 2010web technologies. 2013 is too esoteric and future thinking for normal people. - Robert Scoble

Considering how long from the infamous O'Reilly web 2.0 conference to it becoming a popular buzzword web 2.0 became, maybe 2010 is a bit too soon in the future. I'm not sure why I'm trying to help with this buzzword though, considering how much I hate them. :-) - Joshua Lee

Robert: How would the clients make it clear what networks you're talking to and who actually is able to see your content? For example, If Joe is Twitter+Seesmic and I'm Twitter+Tweetie.... when twitter goes down I can no longer speak to joe... - Frankie Warren

Alex: that's because Twitter treats us like crap and has $30 million in the bank. - Robert Scoble

Loic is well positioned to win because he has an honest to God team working on this. They got in early and they've kept a break-neck innovation pace. - Christian Anderson

Twitter is a platform, Friendfeed and Tweetdeck are apps. Well , Twitter does have a native app, but it sucks big time. I think it's a matter of months that the mainstream twitter users will realize that and there will be a huge explosion in twitter apps usage. - Kirill Bolgarov

Frankie - that's a routing-around-failure problem that is keeping me up at night to be honest - when I think of what will be needed to do that - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Ok, I have to go to bed. One last though before I go, one of the reasons Seesmic Desktop is huge is because it pulls your virtual social life back into one location that can exist on you desktop, and makes it easy to manage from it's interface. - Jimminy Fuller

its no threat at all - as twitter knows perfectly well, the Platform is everything! Seesmic isn't the platform and never can be as its desktop based - Anthony Feint

Yeh, that was abit offtopic - Kirill Bolgarov

Frankie: in Seesmic Desktop I can tell which Window is showing me Facebook and which one is showing me Twitter. Why couldn't I be shown that I can have more features with other people who are on Seesmic Desktop? - Robert Scoble

Oh suuure Scoble, get me on Friend Feed and already you've declared it passe? - Brett Schulte

Robert - They should spend the $29 million on their infrastructure and leave the last million to pay salaries :P - Alex Knight

Robert, is there a way to do a date range search in FF? - Gary Gannon

Brett: heheh. There's a method to my madness. When I started getting into friendfeed Twitter took off. So, I figured I better find the next big thing so friendfeed could take off. Seesmic Desktop is it! - Robert Scoble

Alex: I hear the team already took a lot off the table. - Robert Scoble

Alex: that's why the management isn't in a big hurry to sell Twitter. They already have "FU money." - Robert Scoble

Gogii is the next Twitter according to @drew... I like it. - Brett Schulte

I still don't think an app could be the next big thing,after all platform rules. - Steve Chou

Brett: hmmm. Why? - Robert Scoble

Mike: do you see like Robert in that you can make a separate network that acts as a Twitter+ - Frankie Warren

Steve: Seesmic Desktop IS a platform. - Robert Scoble

In all honesty it's easy to bash Twitter's infrastructure when you aren't in their shoes. I know our own company has gone through a ton of growing pains in the past 14 years. - Alex Knight

Alex: Twitter was crashing when I had 1,000 followers. It's always sucked. - Robert Scoble

Blackfeather: I'm glad you like the idea, but now I'm seeing Robert's point. The 2010web is constantly changing just like model years. You want to release next years big thing now. - Jimminy Fuller

Gogii is SMS based and more universal, and allows custom groups. - Brett Schulte

Frankie - I can't say to be honest one way or the other - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I remember about 2 months that Twitter wasn't crashing in some form or another, when I first started using it - Jesse Stay

Ff on the iPhone is not handling this string very well. - Christian Anderson

Mike: Tweetie is using its network of 200,000 people to do lots of interesting things and will be doing more when they roll out their new version. - Robert Scoble

This is the problem with FriendFeed... 200+ comments from one post. There needs to be a way to flag comments from different users in different ways. - Jay McCormack

Back in the ole days of twitter when you had to walk 15 miles in the snow, barefoot, in order to tweet... - Dean Clark

Mike: it'd be interesting to see if you guys choose to make your own database to add even more features. Like location and better search and "offline availability" for when Twitter is down. - Robert Scoble

i don't know why exactly -perhaps it was the pager days- that makes me see it as yesterday. i skip sms if i can help it. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

robert - understood - I just can't say or comment on anything we are planning or not planning - loic and marco would personally come stomp me into a furry puddle ;) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

You're right Robert, shit programming is shit programming. It's no excuse to not plan/develop scalable infrastructure. Our company is suffering now because all of our internal systems were writing 14 years ago by a bunch of n00bs. - Alex Knight

Robert: I'm sure you're not at liberty to say.... but it seems counter productive that seesmic and tweetie race to get an install base of twitter clients to have their own network gain a critical mass... shouldnt they work together :) Or am I being naive again - Frankie Warren

Jay: I don't see this as a problem. I see it as a benefit. - Shawn Hickman

Am I the only one that would like to see threaded comments or would that get way too messy? - James Poling

Seesmic was interesting but I just can't stand listening to the French guy. - Brett Schulte

Frankie: I wish they would work together. - Robert Scoble

Brett: heheheh. That's Loic. - Robert Scoble

brett - well, you can listen to the German guy if you want - he's the Seesmic Desktop lead - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

FWIW, I love Tiny Twitter on my Blackberry. So much nicer than Twitter Berry - ursi

Robert: He really should get a spokesman people can understand. - Brett Schulte

@James .. threaded comments FTW! - Steven Hodson

James: threaded comments would be fun here. I'd love to add graphics and video in here too, but it sure would get messy. - Robert Scoble

Just say it, Robert. As a former Microsoft employee, you should be able to explain to everyone in three little words how Seesmic Desktop/Tweetie/insert_thirdparty_app_here can successfully kill Twitter should it gain a critical mass of users: "EMBRACE. AND. EXTEND." I'm 26 and even I remember the browser wars. Seriously. Scoble's right on this one. - Andrew Feinberg

+ for threaded comments, this is hard to follow. Friendfeed should add to their UI and it should highlight comments that mention you. - Alex Knight

"Even I remember the browser wars" - feeling ancient. - Brett Schulte

james fuller: considering the target audience & the purpose then it would make sense currently. perhaps i'm thinking of time in a scalable sense of passage. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Andrew: yes, embrace and extend. Tweetie showed me the light. Seesmic is doing similar things with Facebook and Twitter (I have groups in Seesmic Desktop). - Robert Scoble

I wish there was a button for commenting at the very bottom of this post. I don't like scrolling back up to comment. - Jimminy Fuller

Alex: follow? Just click the time stamp and stare at the screen! - Robert Scoble

Nobody remember the losers. - Steve Chou

James: if you click the time stamp it will open a new window up where the comment window will be at the bottom. - Robert Scoble

James: pop out the window via the time stamp? - Frankie Warren

Didn't you use to be big on Twitter Scoble? :) - Brett Schulte

Robert: Thank you this is so much better. - Jimminy Fuller

@Brett you should see the crowds he draws in Japan - Andrew Feinberg

@Brett he used to be big on Facebook too :) - Steven Hodson

Brett: a very large PR firm told me I have a more engaged audience than Oprah. So, who said I'm still not big on Twitter? - Robert Scoble

Steven: He's not still big on Facebook? Could've fooled me. - Karoli

Brett: It gave birth to this chaos. - Frankie Warren

Does anyone think Twitter buying out one of the big Twitter client products would be good for them? - Alex Knight

Alex: that would be stupid for a platform company to do. - Robert Scoble

Alex - even better, Facebook buying out one of the big Twitter clients - Jesse Stay

@Alex: No. They can barely keep up with their own internal architecture. - Andrew Feinberg

I think Twitter's plan is to offer premium features like advanced search, tracking, analytics, and bringing back the @ replies everyone complained about recently. They won't give this all away for free. - Geoff Peterson

Alex: Twitter effectively killed all tiny URL innovation by partnering with bit.ly. - Robert Scoble

Alex: I think they need to be bought - Shawn Hickman

Robert I think you said it right there - the only way to truly compete with Twitter as a Twitter developer is to become Twitter - Jesse Stay

Shawn: but the minute Twitter buys one the other companies know it's over and they'll move their code to a different system. - Robert Scoble

Do they have a written partnership with bit.ly or did they just switch due to analytics? - Dean Clark

Robert you coming down for e3? - Brett Schulte

Dean: from what I understand it's a written partnership. Bit.ly is even on the same datacenter as Twitter is now. - Robert Scoble

Jesse: is that like the scene in Highlander where Sean Connery teaches Christopher Lambert to "Feel the stag..."? - Andrew Feinberg

Brett: I doubt it. - Robert Scoble

Sure, someone should buy Twitter but who? I would say what Twitter is doing right now would be a good fit for Google. - Alex Knight

Andrew, something like that, yeah :-) - Jesse Stay

Robert: Agreed, but I meant I think they should be bought by another company - Shawn Hickman

Alex: I talked with Twitter investor Fred Wilson on Thursday. He said that Ev really is adverse to selling. - Robert Scoble

Ok call me a newbie, but why would it be a bad thing for Twitter to purchase atebits (tweetie)? Wouldn't that just be like hiring people to make their own client? Or is that bad because Twitter should only be focusing on Twitter, and not clients for Twitter? - Colin

Robert, to your point about search, I would offer this: Even a powerful search isn't enough. There has to be filters. Tracking my name even gives wonky results without filters. - Karoli

So is Twitter's revenue plan to slowly remove the most popular features and then start selling them back to people? - James Poling

Ok, interesting. Yeah written partnership would certainly kill some people trying to innovate. Few out of work people I think will give you different things a try though, certainly won't be see as widely though since short links are a mainstream feature now. - Dean Clark

I heard Robert is buying Twitter - Jesse Stay

wow, it's been a while since I've been in such a fun tech discussion. I've missed you, FriendFeed! - Andrew Feinberg

No, Twitter bought Robert. ;) - Brett Schulte

Karoli: search is equal to filters in my mind. - Robert Scoble

Robert - EV may not want to sell Twitter, but it may have to happen in the not so distant future. We'll see though. - Alex Knight

The obvious choice would be google to purchase Twitter, but I'm sure others could work well too - Shawn Hickman

it's also possible for another company going down to buy twitter for its upward momentum, but maybe not likely. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Brett, no, I just bought Robert - did you see my Twitpay? - Jesse Stay

I bought his puppet, too - Jesse Stay

@James: there was no plan. that would acknowledge they added features knowing they'd be popular, and therefore would have built them better. - Andrew Feinberg

Alex: Ev doesn't have to sell. What's forcing him to sell? I don't see it. - Robert Scoble

Andrew: friendfeed is fun once in a while when you get a topic that rocks and rolls like this one. - Robert Scoble

Seesmic Desktop is Dead - Bwana ☠

Andrew: but the real power in friendfeed is in the real time search engine here. - Robert Scoble

Robert - Nothing at all... but the future is untold. He may not have to sell now but it may become a good move in the future. - Alex Knight

Haha Bwana! - invariant - farewell FF

LOL @Bwana - Alex Knight

I heard Google is buying Seesmic Desktop - Jesse Stay

Bwana makes me laugh. - Robert Scoble

i do like the search engine. I use it to track current event reactions. I just rarely get engaged. - Andrew Feinberg

Jesse NOW THAT would be interesting! - Robert Scoble

I just heard a rim shot coming from Bwana - Alex Knight

You heard it hear first (might as well claim it) - Jesse Stay

ergo seesmic desktop is the new rss? lol - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

bwana - any more lebron pain for you tonight? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Robert: Conversation you can see is the real power of FriendFeed. Not the disjointed conversation on Twitter. - Geoff Peterson

Maybe FriendFeed should buy Twitter or the other way around - Shawn Hickman

So how does Seesmic make money... or does it not? - Colin

Tweetie is making money. - Colin

Why don't we all just pitch in and buy them both. How many users between the two? - Jesse Stay

Colin - Seesmic desktop makes money from other services I believe. - Alex Knight

Colin: sell a pro version. I'd pay for a version that had friendfeed integration, for instance. - Robert Scoble

@Jesse. Nice bring me in as an investor - Christian Anderson

bear - no, I'm somewhat over it...until I turn the TV on - Bwana ☠

Christian, might still be expensive at what it seems Twitter's asking for - Jesse Stay

well, I'm off to bed. This was fun, see ya in the morning! - Robert Scoble

I heard the LDS church is buying the LHC from CERN and using it to go back in time so they can buy Twitter, add everyone's tweets to their genealogical databases and use that to target ads better than google, AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD AHAHAHAHAHA. Right, Jesse? :-) - Andrew Feinberg

Seesmic desktop runs on AIR. I refuse to use it for that reason. - nick

Robert I thought you were going to kill Gilmore - you got pretty hot. - Brett Schulte

Robert: the average person does not equate search/track/filters . Look at Google usage for examples - Karoli

Colin - I paid for my Tweetie licence but also donated $18 to DestroyTwitter. Love supporting great developers. - Alex Knight

Andrew, I think my head just exploded - Jesse Stay

Brett: he can't kill Gillmor. Two would pop up to take his place. - Andrew Feinberg

hahahaha - Brett Schulte

Good night. 330 comments. Wild. - Robert Scoble

Way to be Alex, this stuff isn't free to make. - Colin

@Jesse: so you don't deny it? :-) - Andrew Feinberg

fun discussion. The pug insists I leave it. Good night all. - Karoli

Good night - happy weekend! - Brett Schulte

Andrew, that one I'll let you make your own conclusions on :-) - Jesse Stay

(I somehow forgot to work Louis Gray into the conspiracy. But we all know he's there. The question is who will play him in the movie starring Tom Hanks as Ev and Phillip Seymour Hoffman as Scoble) - Andrew Feinberg

/me wanders off to dream of wiring IRC to FriendFeed - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I think Microsoft should buy Twitter and make their own Twitter client and implement Microsoft Bob to help you tweet! - Alex Knight

and don't forget the CGI "Clippy" voiced by Chris Rock - Andrew Feinberg

Microsoft kills almost every business they bought. - Steve Chou from IM

@Steve Chou - Google's record isn't much better really - Steven Hodson

(too bad Don LaFontaine isn't alive to record a trailer voiceover for Ron Howard's "Twitter/Friendfeed" techno-thriller) - Andrew Feinberg

So I need a who special box to run seesmic? *rollseyes* So it's like on of those Bloomberg boxes that investment firms have clicking away? And where in my already oversized backpack am I supposed to carry this Seemic machine? - Matthew DeVries

Matthew: the bloomberg software can run on any laptop now. but you need a special smartcard with a fingerprint reader that reads a barcode off the screen at the same time. - Andrew Feinberg

I'm going to look so cool taking up 4 tables in the coffee shop to run all the shit I'm supposed to be running to be truely plugged in.... - Matthew DeVries

@Matthew ROFLMAO .. just like the rest of the cool kids at Starbucks :) - Steven Hodson

That? That's the PS3 and HDTV just so i can watch Qor. - Matthew DeVries

I'm going to sit down and deal 5 notebooks out of my back pack like a Baccarat shoe. - Matthew DeVries

Wow 350 comments. What a massive comment stream. The comment feature makes a huge diff. It facilitates conversation, which twitter doesn't really provide. - Lawrence Di Stefano from Nambu

What Twitter's at threat!? It has the momentum of an unstoppable train, as to Seesmic being a threat - maybe, unfortunately it's irrelevant. - sofarsoShawn

I dumped Tweetdeck after the last Seesmic release. They have such an insane release schedule I don't think people can grasp how difficult it is to roll out the kind of releases they have done back to back.Their version stream just tells me they have bank behind them. When you work from different boxes I don't love the tethered feel of Seesmic however. - Chad Harris

there is potential for all these services (twitter, Friendfeed, facebook etc) to become secondary to the apps. The more services there are, the greater the need to bring them back together again. - Alistair (alpinefolk)

Chad: agree, there is something about SD that I'm not a fan of, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Seems to have lost something from Twhirl somehow - Alistair (alpinefolk)

@Scoble: Can you disclose publicly here that you are not on a pay roll by Seesmic or Loic LeMeur? Don't you have a PR-advisory deal? Please disclose.... - nikolas

Mike Taylor: "dream of wiring IRC to FriendFeed" <- that would be SO great ^__^ (with xdcc support included and stuff...) - minus-one

Robert is high - Alejandro

amazing 355 comments - learned a lot about Seesmic in rellation to twitter; thanks for sharing! - Jeroen De Miranda

Nikolas I have no such deal with Seesmic. I never have been paid by them. I have no investment in them. I don't know where you got that idea but it is totally false. - Robert Scoble

I just cannot bring myself to install one more thing on my computer to take up needed RAM. Plus, I do not want to install anything on my work computer either...and like to just user browser things that I can use on any computer. - Hummie

Scobleizer, Wait, Do I hence assume that your assertion is that friendfeed is no more (or, never was) a threat to twitter? - Lakshman Prasad

Lakshman: Friendfeed I'd not a threat to Twitter, correct. That said it is a threat to http://search.twitter.com - Robert Scoble

Robert: I like it but --- 1. it is a tool not a place, so i'll stick with FriendFeed as my means to "kill Twitter" and 2. it is a total whorish memory hog and i hate it when that happens. - Thom Kennon

Yeah it's a memory hog - Svartling

Robert: Seesmic definitely has potential, but I think that PeopleBrowsr has far more potential and far more power than Seesmic will ever have. As a power user, I'm quite surprised that you haven't taken that tool up, and replaced your Tweetdeck. And I would be surprised if you chose Seesmic to replace Tweetdeck. The search capabilities alone in PeopleBrowsr make me wonder this. Add to... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

I would honestly say Seesmic Desktop is more of a threat to Friendfeed than Twitter - Zee.

Rob: I need to try Peoplebrowsr again. When I first tried it it was too slow and complex. - Robert Scoble

Zee: one major reason I also haven't gotten in Peoplebrowsr or Seesmic desktop is because, well, it is Adobe AIR and my iPhone doesn't run that (in Seesmic Desktop's case). In Peoplebrowser's case? It didn't do mobile last time I tried it. Friendfeed's search and realtime is keeping me going. - Robert Scoble

I think we can all agree that twitter was just the first in a line of ever evolving systems in real time news, twitter is the oldest, and will probably be replaced eventually, but surely it doesn't help to keep jumping ship every few months, nothing seems to be gathering as much steam as friendfeed, and it offers huge improvements over twitter, I really think people do need to persist with one service... rather than constantly jumping - Chris Lloyd

Robert the lack of mobile in PeopleBrowsr is valid, and it is complex, but the light mode makes it much more manageable to start using. The speed has considerably improved since you last used it. We'd love for you to try it again. The AIR version will import your groups from Tweetdeck. Please feel free to ask any questions you have. Jodee is on his way to California now for the conference this week. I hope that you'll have a chance sit down with him and see the improvements. - guruvan (Rob Nelson) from f2p

augh, too many comments to absorb. just wanted to throw in my two cents, though. i started with twhirl, then tried out Seesmic Desktop, and then went back to twhirl because i was able to customize the font size for reading the tweets. maybe i didn't dig deep enough, but Seesmic doesn't have that option, and i find the print a wee bit too small for my liking. - Starshadow Rivaulx

Wow Rob, you are an internet phenomenon. Someone tweeted me the link of this thread followed by "look at the moron, lol". Anyway: If twitter gets shut down, Seesmic will die. If Seesmic dies (gets shut down, w/e), it won't make a dent to twitter. Hence, you are wrong. - H M Elius

I'm with @guruvan on this, PeopleBrowsr is way better than Seesmic Desktop as a power tool. - Svartling

Svartling: Thanks! And, you can see by the via on this post, we already have FriendFeed support, and it will improve as well. And, with all the networks that we support, PeopleBrowsr isn't dependent on Twitter. Twitter access is surely the big slice, but we offer the ability to search Facebook, FriendFeed, Digg, Youtube, flickr, and even custom URLs. And, we provide access to Seesmic's network - guruvan (Rob Nelson) from PeopleBrowsr

Loic is gonna love this - David Lloyd

so I go offline for a few hours playing with the kids and Robert launches this conversation when I am quiet and away! Ah! that's fun. If you had written a blog post instead of a friendfeed entry it would definitely be the week-end techmeme headline! Competing with Twitter? Nah I would have to be seriously sick to even think about it. We are just delivering as fast as we can and growing... more... - Loic Le Meur

WOW, what a conversation that was!! - Micky

Seriously. Robert...I think you just proved the value of (at least) FriendFeed forever more...(And Seesmic too of course!:-)...This is what I get for sleeping, eh? - Alan Edgett

I still rather prefer Twhirl to Seesmic Desktop. (Twitter + Friendfeed) better than (Twitter + Facebook). - Adrian Scicluna

The newest SD is much nicer than previous from a functional standpoint. I agree that FF support is a must (as well as Seesmic support). I still do not really like the UI, especially on my EEE PC, but even on the 24" monitor it is not as nice as TD. The functionality is better though so I have switched to SD. Really hoping to have the ability to rename saved searches, it is the searching which is so awesome after all. - Sean Brady

Robert how about a video showing the features or another interview with Loic? Depraved for Content!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Stephen Pickering

Its PeopleBrowsr not Seesmic - Webferret

So, what is this stuff from the top of the thread about Tweetie using their own servers? Little Snitch tells me that Tweetie for the Mac is communicating with twitter.com and s3.amazonaws.com. Robert? - Jason Wehmhoener

Jason: sorry it was Twinkle. I messed up. - Robert Scoble

It would sure be ironic if the 'openness' of Twitter's API killed them. As far as Seesmic goes, I wouldn't count on it emerging as the winner. I'm not impressed with it at all, most of the reasons being cited or commonly known. It has a lot of work to do before even attempting FriendFeed integration. I think Nambu has a lot of promise actually - Angus Burton

Starshadow - I know that better font handling is on our short list - i'll go poke the devs to see if I can move it up a couple notches :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Loic: who cares about getting on Techmeme anymore? Not me. I'd rather just have an interesting conversation. Seems like a few people found it here. - Robert Scoble

Looks to be the ase doesn't it. I was moving to TweetDeck/Twit but now thininking about exiting ofdf to Seesmic - James Hemby

Robert, you've got me trying both FriendFeed and Seesmic now from this post. Soon enough I'll be on flttr , even. - Raj Rikhy

Robert, I love TechMeme, I read it multiple times a day. I agree Friendfeed has very active users. Both are small groups on the web, if these groups are enough for you as a conversation, then yeah it's cool. Friendfeed definitely did not make me stop reading techmeme. - Loic Le Meur

having said that, yes, Friendfeed is coming to Seesmic Desktop - Loic Le Meur

Loic: I am inviting a bunch of Web innovators to a private room on friendfeed this weekend. It's amazing how many are already here and signed in. They might not be active, but they are active enough to accept my invitations! Watch for yours soon. - Robert Scoble

Wow all these comments about seesmic! Well this got me really curious, until now I only used Tweetdeck,tried Peoplebrowser, didn't like it, will give Seesmic a chance now. Want to find out for my self, and once again thanks to friendfeed for these discussions! - Jacob

I view Seesmic Desktop and Tweetdeck as almost next generation web browsers customized for the social web. Will be interesting to see how that dynamic evolves and how the traditional browsers like firefox will fit into the picture going forward. - Mike Bracco

Loic: I would love to hear what you feel about my above statement and where you see SD fitting in long term/big picture perspective. If you have a link where you have already discussed this, can you send - thanks! - Mike Bracco

Mike: agreed Loic "Bloomberg for Social media" sums it up perfectly. Also I am not a fan of peoplebrowser think Steamy is cleaner if you want to go untethered. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - Chad Harris from email

Chad: Thanks and makes total sense. - Mike Bracco

Thanks also ment to type "Streamy" not steamy, thumbs need a diet :) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - Chad Harris from email

Seesmic Desktop is too buggy for my liking... and I've tried to like it. Userlists are often completely incorrect... and randomly at that. I don't much care for any of the AIR apps. They just don't "feel" good. - John

Robert: I'm curious - If Twitter decides to use advertising as part of their business model, how will apps like seesmic etc impact Twitter - if they block advertisements, which are displayed on the Twitter web page? If so many users won't see the ads, how will that hurt Twitter's model? - Jim Connolly

LOL. - Mona Nomura

damn! this thread is still going! scoble's threads are epic! - Jason Pollock

Jim: the advertising money is in search. So, what happens if Seesmic Desktop does a metasearch that uses Twitter, Facebook, and friendfeed to present to you the best possible display? Wouldn't that hurt Twitter's ability to sell advertising? I think it would. The one who is in charge of the display controls where the ads go. The one who has the relationship with the user controls the... more... - Robert Scoble

I like Seesmic's functionality but really dislike the interface. It's all a little clunky and a little ugly. Plus the left panel takes up way too much space. Air apps aren't may fav. Seesmic should look at Tweetie on the mac for design ideas. - Wo

How do you search Facebook on Seesmic? - Wo

Didn't read all 400+ comments. Seesmic desktop is poopy compared to Nambu. Try Nambu. - Jason Mayoff from Nambu

Robert: I'm waiting on my invite :) - James Poling from email

does anyone know how many users are registered on friendfeed ? :) - Pretty Monkey Studio

It has 103.33 million accounts - David Lloyd

cool thx mark - Pretty Monkey Studio

can't believe this thread is still active - Loic Le Meur

Wow this is still going on?? LOL - Alex Knight

Jason - Nambu is crash happy, at least Seesmic Desktop doesn't crash. - Alex Knight

This entire thread is silly and nonsensical. It's one thing to argue the merits of an interface's appearance, but the way this reads is like comparing an orange to orange juice. Seesmic Desktop is the orange juice to Twitter's orange; without the source, you can't have the juice. Or, is Loic planning to create a competing SNS? - Ari Herzog

Ari... I think the point is you can now drink orange, apple, tomato and grape juice and it all tastes like the same juice. Things like this make 'where' less important than 'what' - Johnny Worthington

Not the point, Johnny. If Twitter has one of its legendary fail whale attacks, it matters not what juice you're drinking since it ain't there. - Ari Herzog

Hey Robert, you're attracting again heh!!! Had to take 2 days off after all the fun we had. I LOVE SD, btw. - Myrna

Twine Is Taking Off, Now Bigger Than FriendFeed http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... (pretty hard 2 believe) - Ron Hagenhoff

+1 on hyperboles make you think. Just did a twitter search to measure the buzz around twitter clients: tweetie ~70 tweet per hour, tweetdeck ~150 tweet per hour and seesmic ~30 tweet per hour. But seesmic has $12M in the bank and a charismatic leader - It is going to be an interesting fight! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Edwin: TweetDeck also had a multi month lead over Seesmic. That's going to be tough to beat. - Robert Scoble

Robert: Yes. The challenge for Loic I think is going to be to carve out a market segment: 1) companies managing their brands and communities, 2) social media power users or 3) normal users. 1) is where the short term revenue is, 2) is where the vocal/buzz people are and 3) is where the mass and long term search revenue. I am not sure that you can design one product which will fit the... more... - Edwin Khodabakchian

The future is in a desktop app? Everything else is going web-based, into the cloud, and yet for this alone users will flock to some resource-hog? No way, no how. Be web-based or be content to live with only early adopters. - Maxwell Kennerly

I'm loving Seesmic desktop - i look forward to what adaptations it will make - I want that friend feed pull-in. - Robert Freeze

The one thing that I have only seen in Nambu is the unread count. Might be missing something but it is just amazing for having searches in there, for mentions and direct messages. It's just wonderful. And is it not Air which security people will tell you is a major danger spot for hacking. - Oliver Thylmann

Robert: Thanks for the feedback re Twitter's revenue model. Just a thought, but with this thread having (at this point) 425 comments - is there a chance that FRIENDFEED could be the real competition to Twitter? The quality is already here, just a 'little' light on numbers. Thoughts? - Jim Connolly

Jim: I think there's something interesting happening here in search and in groups. Those are both places there's potential money, but a lot has to happen before that can happen. - Robert Scoble

Only if we all get more expensive computers, webcams, etc. - Prokofy Neva

Robert: Are you referring to FriendFeed needing more active users or for the actual FriendFeed platform to change? - Jim Connolly

I dont know if Seesmic is a threat for Twitter, but I know Robert Scoble knows well how to create a hot thread. - Jacque

Jacque: That's what I was thinking. :-) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Can someone please explain to me how you can search your facebook stream in Seesmic - Wo

Ari: Not all of these clients are particularly susceptible to Twitter's failwhales. Many features still continue to work, often including search. Some of these clients have backends that cache/queue tweets so even more gets through. So it's not always like having no juice. Furthermore, if you're paying attention to multiple social networks, you're not as concerned or slowed down by one of them becoming inaccessible - guruvan (Rob Nelson) from PeopleBrowsr

I've been using Seesmic Desktop for about a week now. I absolutely love it. I have no use for Tweetdeck now. I sometimes use Hootsuite - mostly for their "Hootlet". But Seesmic Desktop is absolutely wonderful in managing my feeds. - Curt Mercadante

*bumps* - sofarsoShawn

Bret Taylor

You can now choose which of your services you want displayed on your profile page. The option is available at the bottom your services page at https://friendfeed.com/account.... (We will otherwise select five icons to show automatically.)

May 13 - Comment - Like - Share

paniaguai, david beckwith, Jannifer @wordsforliving and 231 other people liked this

Thanks to Casey for implementing this. http://friendfeed.com/casey - Bret Taylor

38 more comments

Just to avoid a clutter? Thanks Casey, but wouldn't it be easier to adjust the style (or use a js trick)? (Just suggesting of course) :) - directeur

Excellent addition, thanks! - Aaron Draczynski

YAY! - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Uh, bug. Nasty bug. I can't see some of my services, the box is taller than my screen. You should columnize them or make the list scrollable or something. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I wish we could choose more than five. :-( - darnell from BuddyFeed

Details of my bug: http://friendfeed.com/friendf... - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

We can still only choose 5? :( - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

awesome thanks guys - Alfredo

Yep, only five for now. We have gotten lots of feedback that the icons became useless when there were too many because you couldn't find the useful profile pages within the countless imported feeds. This lets you choose the few that have the most relevant profile info, but keeps the icon explosion from happening. - Bret Taylor

But I loved the icon explosion!  - darnell from BuddyFeed

I like this, and five is plenty for me to be able to get a sense of someone. thank you! - holly

Very cool Thanks! :-) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Wow, nice. - Adi

It's nice to have the choice. Thank you. - Rick Cogley

minor problem: can't save when services exceeds screen size. - AJ Batac

AJ: Ctrl-(mouse scroll wheel). Although, it gets pretty unreadable. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

that needs to be fixed. - Alfredo

hmmmmm -[ - Chris Loft

Yay! Thanks for the choice =) - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Again. This is the same issue we had with the Rooms dialogue in the old interface. Didn't anyone check this first? What freakin resolution do the FF devs run at, anyway? LOL - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

Rah, I'm 99.7% sure they use portrait mode on their monitors. - AJ Batac

You'll take your five icons...and you'll like it! Thanks for the new feature. - Mark Krynsky

Chris Charabaruk: some of us on macbook pros and other machines don't use scroll wheels. i agree with others that the truncation bug needs to be fixed. and, only five choices defeats the purpose of adding any more. some of us already have more services set up are used to seeing them. don't limit everybody in the process of simplifying it for a few, if it can be helped. thanks. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Bret, Casey, thank you for this. Can you either make the list of services on the new screen either scrollable or in a smaller dialog box with a scroll bar? There's a bug that if you have a lot of services you cannot see the bottom of the list. :-( - Kol Tregaskes

Love this, but can't use it because I use too many services. I can't scroll down the list. - Thomas Hawk

A vertical screensize of 1200 pixels fixes mine. Your mileage may vary. I chose more than 5 services and let FriendFeed pick, presumably the way it can, had i chose less than 5. - John Lam

Ok, I logged on on a PC and used the ctl scroll wheel trick and it worked. - Thomas Hawk

great! I only want to show the most important feeds in my profile; and not clutter my profile with too many feeds that I include - Jeroen De Miranda

Any word on the Iphone FF web? Or any news of an app? I can't see "my" discussions on the Iphone web version. - orionstarr

So glad this has happened! :D - Nicholas James

That's a simple but crucial feature, in my estimation. But if I had to be fussy (which I usually am), the option to (re)order them would be also be good. - Wayne Smallman

agree with wayne. I'd like to draw more attention to my blog, and less to my twitter ;-) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Good that we can choose, thanks. Don't really understand why only 5 though. I don't have "countless imported feeds"; I have 15, which does not seem "too much to look at" to me. - Neil Saunders

+1 Neil - Richard Akerman

Now if we could just select the order they display in - a' la Google Profile. Speaking of Google Profile... is FF planning on adding that to the list of services? - Alexander Grundner

This thread was discussed on the FFundercats (http://www.ffundercats.com/2009...) - Josh Haley

not a feature i couldn't live without.. but still nice to have the option. thanks! - Peter Efland

In my top 5 was facebook by default! #friendfeedfail - Jordi Rosell

The services dialog is taller than my screen too. Please make it scrollable. - Morton Fox

Andrew Baron

Gary, if you're watching this... - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

August 2, 2008 from YouTube favorites - Comment - Like - Share

Zach Schneider, AJ Batac, Scott Greiff and 70 other people liked this

haha... - Zee.

30 more comments

lol, did not expect that at all - Chris Conway

hehe! i don't think he's gonna call her now after that... :D :o - Chrimmus Tad

She can call me if she wants!! :-) - Dave Winer

That was hilarious. :-) - Mathew A. Koeneker

I was expecting her to say something about having an STD. - Louie

@Dave .... Lol...She is a cutie though eh - Zee.

Someone is a bit pissed... She is kinda cute though :) - Michael Forian

Looking forward to seeing Gary in a Youtube video-response ;) - Migger

OMG! - ※Fu※

hahahahahahahaaa [Edit] Somebody wouldn't give her his telephone number????? - Kamath (नमः)

I think an important element to this that isn't immediately obvious (if you don't click through) is that this is addressed to Gary Vaynerchuk of Wine Library TV, who has started to use a video as an email auto-responder: http://tv.winelibrary.com/garyvs-... - Mark Trapp

This sniffs of a transparent Lonelygirl15 spoof to promote Gary's book, 'natch. - joshua fouts

Yes, Vaynerchuk's video response to email is significant, and Andrew's dislike of same. I think the video is great, it may be Rocketboom 2.0. - Dave Winer

I've fallen victim to Gary's auto email reply, with his video link, before. lol. - Louie

lol - Adri Munier

BWAHAHAHA!!! I love it. - Aaron deMello

liz, message from gary: "please mail it to 586 Morris Avenue Springfield, New Jersey 07081 marked ATTN GARYV URGENT URGENT URGENT thanks will get back to you in two to three weeks" - Deva Hazarika

lolz loved it! - Triston McIntyre

lol - xero

cuty :) - Marco Sascha Sven Hoppe from twhirl

Bwahahahahaha!!!! - Robert Couture from twhirl

funny... - Tony

the lead up was a little long but it ended with a bang! - Morgan

Liz, it's a great ending. too good. - Sarah Austin

OMG LMAO. LOL - ZOD

I was getting ready for "I'm pregnant" -- but this was good. - MattJhsn

O_O O_O <_< >_> @_@ oh...... my..... - Bwana ☠

She is adorable and that is hilarious! The Triscuit actually makes it funnier. - Dave Tremel

She hasn't done any videos since :( - Pat Hawks

Garyvee is a lucky guy. - Dave Winer

Holy shit this is eight months old! LOL way to resurrect a dead thread! :) - Adam Turetzky

Mark Carey

Realtime Twitter Search on Google! http://mt-hacks.com/2009030...

March 2 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

peter huesken and Igor Poltavskiy liked this

this is so cool! It runs off public twitter right now.... it would be so cool if the twitter results were only pulled from people I follow... or to give users an option between public twitter and their own personal networks - Nidhi Makhija

2 more comments

Not sure what is going on but this is not working on my work PC. It works fine on my home PC. No results come up. - Peter Kelley

No results for struts2 where FriendDeck shows that there are some whilst there are results for bushfires - Peter Kelley

Great functionality. Thanks ! An option to get more twitter results (via a "more" link) could be handy... - peter huesken

Appetite: grag

imgfave.com - simple image bookmarking tool - http://imgfave.com

September 21, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Rameez Nooruddin, @jessewright, Greg Guitarbuster and 29 other people liked this

An image bookmarking site I built using the laconi.ca microblogging software (edit: no longer built on laconi.ca, see my my most recent comment below). You can also have your favorites auto-posted to your friendfeed stream (uses the friendfeed api). Would love some feedback! - grag

22 more comments

Cool Gabe...checking it out now...thanks! Just added a few pics, thanks!! - Susan Beebe

Just signed up - will have a play & let you know. Like the idea & simplicity of it...also, i'm not really using a simple service for this kind of thing - not even flickr, so it's a nice little niche especially with the FF integration. Needs a bit of styling...but that can come in a bit. It's a great way to catch peoples eye though & show you mean business - a spanking logo, simple design & attention to detail. - Zee.

how do i find other users? subscribe to them, etc... - Susan Beebe

some great pics on there though have to say - Zee.

Susan: If you click on a user's name there will be a subscribe link under their avatar. - grag

Looks cool, Gabe, I just signed up. I'll give it the full shake down soon. - Fa La La La Lindsay

Well, I'm back from that rabbit hole. Simple, useful - priceless. - Russellreno

http://imgfave.com/index... - Russellreno

Gabe - got it! LOVE YOUR APP...this rocks!! nice work dude! :) - Susan Beebe

I have a suggestion... is there a way that we can have things posted to FF in separate posts? Usually I post something to FF so it can have it's "own conversation". Having a bunch of random pictures I liked show up in one post doesn't give that a chance to happen... Just a thought. I like the service, just not quite thrilled with the FF integration the way it is. - Fa La La La Lindsay

Thanks for checking out imgfave everyone! Lindsay, definitely a good suggestion. I think it might make sense to have an option to pick between an hourly rollup of all faved images (like it does now) or having every image auto-posted separately. I'll think about this some more. - grag

Zee: Thanks for the feedback! Yeah, my plan is to keep imgfave really simple and appeal to users who just want an easy way to bookmark images and share images (and push them out to other services such friendfeed twitter, etc..). A logo and some style improvements are definitely on the todo list. Got some other cool features I'm releasing soon :) - grag

Gabe - Notice recommendation. Strand sends a notice when I have a mutual connect with a member. That saves researching on the site. FF does not do that. - Russellreno

Hey Russell: not sure what you mean when you say send a notice when there is a mutual connect. Could you explain that some more? - grag

I prefer vi.sualize.us at http://vi.sualize.us/ - Kol Tregaskes

So does vi.sualize.us, just add as a blog and you get nice large thumbnails of everything you fave. - Kol Tregaskes

using FFFFOUND but will try this one out. - AJ Batac

...if only FFFFound was open sign-up. (If anyone has one invite please send to SelvRya11@JCPatriot.org ) - Ryan Selvy

Gabe, thanks for leaving your comment. I like what I see in your app. :) Will signup real soon! - Jonathan Kong

Hoping to get some feedback on the new version of imgfave. I completely re-wrote the site, added ability to organize images into collections, embeddable widget, full keyboard navigation (arrow keys, space bar to fave), facebook connect integration. Mostly I'd love some feedback on first user impression. Is it confusing at all? User growth has been okay, but hoping this new version will jump start things. - grag

Michael, what site would you want to import your favorites from? I've been thinking about a flickr import option, simply because people have been asking for a way to organize their faves on flickr for ages. - grag

import flickr favs, ya ya ya! I have thousands... - Jason Wehmhoener

+16777215 grag - LouCypher

Glocalizing!: Erhan Erdogan

Europe

July 7, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, ardiba, Hakan Deryal and 11 other people liked this

Turkey *http://friendfeed.com/rooms... - Erhan Erdogan

34 more comments

Schweiz - Yves Oesch

Germany - Thomas Frütel

Portugal - Marcos Marado from fftogo

Austria - Andrea Sturm

Spain - Icekahlua

Germany - Baard @ Pixum

England - Andy Murdoch

Italy - Alessandro

Italy - Giusy Mauro

Turkey - Uğur Özmen

Turkey - Cem Catikkas

England [52.6333/-1.1333] - CannonGod

Nederland, the Netherlands, Holland - Vincent van Wylick

the Netherlands - peter huesken

Turkiye - Ömer Enis

England - Colin Walker

Russia - Igor Poltavskiy

Türkei - Yusuf İbili

Bulgaria - Dimitar Vesselinov

Turkey - Baturalp Torun

England - Toby Graham

Switzerland - John Samuelson

Finland - A.T.

England - Joe Dawson

Germany - Nicole Simon

More European friendfeeders here: http://ffrd.appspot.com/regiona... and UK: http://ffrd.appspot.com/regiona... - Peter

Turkiye - Uğur Çelenk

Kreuzberg ;) - Şekip Can Gökalp from twhirl

UK/ Britain/ England/ whatever :-) - Kol Tregaskes

France - Olivier

Finland - Daniel Schildt

Serbia - Mladen Srdić

London, UK - Roger Kondrat

Belgium - Zack Brandit

Italy here, but soon in The Netherlands - Flavio

Benjamin Golub

Official Google Enterprise Blog: Announcing offline access in Gmail Labs - http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2009...

January 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

peter huesken liked this

In case you were wondering: Google Apps will be getting offline Gmail access too. - Benjamin Golub from Bookmarklet

Kol Tregaskes

There's probably no bus. - http://www.b3tards.com/u...

January 26 - Comment - Like - Share

Emma, MikeAmundsen, Alfredo and 6 other people liked this

"So don't just stand here, start walking." - Kol Tregaskes

Is this a shoop, or are the Christians taking a swipe at the atheist bus campaign? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Andrew Baron

Five Presidents - http://www.chicagotribune.com/media...

January 8, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

americanm, Tom Stocky, Rajiv Doshi and 49 other people liked this

Doesn't it kinda freak anyone else out that Jimmy Carter is the only ex-president who was in office prior to 1980 who's still alive? - Helen Sventitsky

37 more comments

This is a wonderful pic. Carter looks like a lolly-pop dude who wandered in. Clinton looks like he was wheeled in and has no clue where he is (someone dressed him nice though). Bush the younger seems happy to be allowed to stay up late. Obama and Bush the elder seem to be old buddies who just cashed out on some several-year-old scheme. I must seek a hi-res version! - J Irving

Nope. Jimmy gave 'em all a dirt nap! - ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift

This disappoints me. It was such a fantastic and rare opportunity for a memorable, once-in-a-career photograph...but all the pictures I've seen of it kind of suck. I don't think you can blame the photographer, though. I suspect that none of those men really had the time to hang around posing for thirty minutes while the photographer tried to capture the best light and stuff. (Also, I... more... - James (@willia4)

Someone needs to add some thought bubbles to this photo. - Mike Doeff

James, not every picture needs to evaluated from a photographer's perspective - though I get what you are saying. Sometimes you see more if we pay attention to the actual content :). Not being snarky, just an observation because I have been guilty of the same quite often. - Kamath (नमः)

Two of the four who've already served were only in for one term (Carter & Bush Sr.). We'll see how Obama fares! - Shawn Farner

Kamath - True. Not every picture does. But something like five living presidents deserves a little bit of care from the photographer, imho. But I'm sure those five living presidents wanted him to leave so they could get lunch. ;) So I'm not blaming him (or her; I haven't found the photo credit) - James (@willia4)

Four Presidents and a President Elect ;) - Ben Jackson from twhirl

Ben - "Five Presidents" is close enough for government work. - James (@willia4)

There wasn't "the photographer;" there were a dozen or more photographers, which is why the presidents were looking in different directions. - Mistletoe Glen

Obama rocks the best suit! - .LAG liked that

Glenn - I see. Well, that explains it then. Still a shame. - James (@willia4)

They should do a bank job. They dont even need masks... - Pete Gilbert

@James As a government empluyee, I find that offensive ;) - Ben Jackson from twhirl

@Pete Hilarious - Christopher Sacca

I like two of them... - orionstarr

ugh hate the drapes; did Carter really wear a brown suit??; LAG U R right Obama has the best suit, with hon mention 2 GW Sr. and finally do grown men really roll their foot like that when standing up??? - R. Ferguson

No purple tie? - orionstarr

you know, the other thing that strikes me about this pic: they're all part of the same club. dig, if you will, this picture, but with hillary in it. change?...my *ss! .LOLz - .LAG liked that

Is it bad that Jr looks older than Sr? - xero

Helen: Well, that was almost 30 years ago. And until the recent spate of 40 something presidents, most of them where a lot older when first elected. - Kevin Pedraja

Bush Sr.: "Westside!" - Steve Weis

I'd heard from somewhere that Clinton and Carter don't like each other at all. Look at that body language. - cecily

Cool collection. Is it the A-list? - Håkan Dahlström

@J Irving - haha - krist80

Actually Obama's pants look a tad too long. It is supposed to be a simple break at the shoe. Bush Jr has quite a bit of fabric there. Maybe Bush the Younger forgot his belt. Clinton's suit looks like it is off the rack at Macys or something lame. Carter is wearing brown shoes. Thought they taught him differently at the Naval Academy. But who am I to talk, wearing yesterday's sweats and a some giant Tigger slippers. - Andrew Leyden

@xero i imagine jr has been through a lot the past 8 years. he's probably ready for a vodka and coke pretty badly right about now. - Jason Shultz from twhirl

@ANDREW: you're right, obama's pants break, just a smidge too much, but a brutha can rock that. If you look at his left hand, he's got no cuff showing there, so i'm scaling back my original sartorial accolades, but he's still the best-dressed of the bunch. carter, probably the kindest, most genuine human of them all, is the worst dressed: sack suit, pants too long, coat sleeves too long, poor color choice. he looks "country." .LOLz - .LAG liked that

@LAG Just noticed the cuff thing. Also noticed what looks like a watch. Is Obama left-handed? - Andrew Leyden

Should we be concerned that arguably the most powerful people in the free world all have issues with dressing themselves? - Jason Shultz from twhirl

@Jason It's Washington which is notoriously plain in the fashion department. I think we should only be concerned if their wives are still dressing them. - Andrew Leyden

hey now, if my wife wants to dress (or undress) me I'll let her. ;) - Jason Shultz from twhirl

I think Sr has the best jacket (except for the shoulders), but Obama is wearing it the best. Carter looks horrible, and Clinton's jacket is far too long. - xero

The Democrats wore red ties and the Republicans wore blue ties. And then Obama had to go and break the rules. - Shawn Farner

It's kind of like a barbershop quintet. - Nine

@shawn because they're all supposed to be playing for the same team, not playing for their individual parties. - Jason Shultz from twhirl

Obame is secretly a Repube? - Dave Winer

@ANDREW: obama is left-handed: watch him drain this 3-point shot! http://www.youtube.com/watch... - .LAG liked that

Michael Nielsen

Apple Introduces Revolutionary New Laptop With No Keyboard | The Onion - America's Finest News Source - http://www.theonion.com/content...

January 5, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Vincent Chu, Chris Lasher, Frank and 44 other people liked this

"Nothing's simpler than a single giant button." - Michael Nielsen from Bookmarklet

9 more comments

God bless the The Onion. - Mitch

The Wheel. Reinvented. "Everything is just a few hundred clicks away." - Paul Buchheit

The best tech spoof I've seen in a long time. Maybe ever. - Chris Baskind

This video is so good. It's remarkably well done. - Paul Buchheit

HAHA I see this happening - Enrique Gutierrez from twhirl

"predictive sentence technology" ftw - Stephanie_Thankful

@Steph haha yes! - Mitch

"I like that the email says, Sent from a Mac Book Wheel. So your friends know you have one" -- LOL - Ross Miller

hey, it worked for Star Trek: The Next Generation - Richard Akerman

That is clever, I could just use the mouse wheel and get rid of my keyboard. Good luck with this ! I do not get it. - joergkurtwegner

Paul Buchheit

New feature: Mouse-over shortened urls in messages to see the original full url. (feature first discovered by Jess Lee in http://friendfeed.com/e...)

December 29, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

TiTi, Numan Arda Çebi, peter huesken and 80 other people liked this

I think the UI is probably too subtle, but it's a start to solving the short-url plague :) http://friendfeed.com/e... - Paul Buchheit

17 more comments

Nice feature, thanks for that. - David Wilson

Nice! I like the UI myself, probably too complicated for most people. A hidden gem of FriendFeed usefulness. - Brandon Titus

I can't believe we didn't spot it sooner, what with it being such a hot topic and all. Thanks Paul and the gang. :-) - Slappy Line

Paul - Does it also work in comments. I guess not too many people put short urls in comments. e.g. http://bit.ly/qLLn - Atul Arora

Great feature, but the image keeps making me wonder why that tooltip isn't going away... ;-) - Jason Wehmhoener

Been waiting for this, Thanks! - Majento

Atul, it doesn't currently work with comments, but fortunately people don't put them in comments for the most part (there's really no need to since we clip them on display). - Paul Buchheit

Great useful simple feature! Thanks FF! - Brian Daniel Eisenberg

Thanks Paul. Very useful feature. - Atul Arora

Thanks for adding this Paul. And to reply to your question about why I like this instead of looking at the status bar - I don't. I think my original request was to have the full title of a link in the title attribute, which seems to be a moot point now, since it seems that long titles are no longer truncated. So I got a bit confused about long urls. But nice feature anyways. Redundancy is often a good thing, at least when it comes to trying to convey information. - Robert Felty

Thanks Paul. Can you also detect a Rickroll? j/k :D - AJ Batac

Ah yes, more tools to deter rick rolling. Love it. - Mark Krynsky

If you are worried about the load on the other systems just change the text of the link on mouseover rather than the title. The hover is too hard to discover. - Sam Pullara

Rock on. Nice feature, and it's nice that it works with multiple url shortening services. - Matt Cutts

And is that the feature you were taking about in riddles two days back? - Varun Mahajan

Nice addon. Tinyurl's can be a big headache since you dont know where you are headed to. - Sidharth Dassani from fftogo

Nice.... - Roberto Bonini

Paul, I've started a conversation on the pros and cons of FriendFeed. Looking for people to add to the list. http://friendfeed.com/e... - B2B Specialist

Robert Scoble

I'm interviewing @timoreilly this afternoon. The guy who came up with "Web 2.0." Leave what you'd like me to ask here:

December 19, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

dromologue, Mihalcea Razvan, Susan Beebe and 17 other people liked this

He runs O'Reilly publishing which does tons of geek books, tons of conferences from the Web 2.0 Summit to Maker Faire, and lots more. His blog is here: http://radar.oreilly.com/tim/ - Robert Scoble

52 more comments

Ask him what we had before Web 2.0. Was it like, 1.9.3? How much of an upgrade was made? I guess that's three questions.... - Mike Shields

What comes after Web 2.0? Or to rephrase, What is Web 3.0? - Pierre

Mike, I can answer that without asking him. The first web, from 1994 through about 2000, was about getting yourself or your company onto the Web. Getting a URL. Making a page, or a set of pages. Being presentable. The second web, from 2000, through today, was about adding people and interactivity to those sites. The third web, which started in 2006, is about getting rid of the page all together. Mashups. Live web, like on FriendFeed or TwitterVision.com, and symantec web. - Robert Scoble

Is the future here yet, or does it remain unevenly distributed? i.e. will some get Web 3.0 while others are still on Web 1.0? If so, what effect will that have? Okay that's three questions, too. - Donald H Taylor

Spencer: sounds good. Web 2.0, for me, was about adding people and interactivity to web pages. That's HUGE for business. Who wants to do business with a faceless corporation? And who wants to have to refresh their web pages to fill out forms and get information? - Robert Scoble

Good idea. Could you ask him: - His predictions for 2009; what´s his top 3 of new developments, new growth areas and failures the followiung year - Will he deliver an iPhone App with access to all books, or, maybe even better, give the iPhone App Stanza access to all his books ? If not, why not ? - Does he think there room between Twitter and Friendfeed for a, say, easier, more... more... - peter huesken

When will "web 3.0" come? What is significant for this new phase? Could it be the third "monitor"? 1st TV, 2nd computer, 3rd mobile with camera so you could take photos of tags and always be ready to get information through GPS and other features. - Martin Lindeskog

Robert I have to disagree, I think mashups including Friendfeed are still part of Web 2.0 or maybe 2.x. Increased user involvement, community driven websites, and a mix of services are still characteristics of Web 2.0. Web 3.0 will be a much bigger step forward. - Bhavishya Kanjhan

Martin: the third wave has already started, but we'll definitely talk about what's happening now. Certainly mobile fits into that. Location awareness. Presence and status awareness. Real-time web. Video. And mashups (there's a new service/tool coming Monday that's pretty wild, by the way). - Robert Scoble

How will the Web evolve to help us better filter useful information from the information overload currently on the internet? Search? Social Media? Something else? - Dobes Vandermeer

Web 2.0 has become a revolution - it would be great to know if user generated content will improve in quality and credibility as more people take to it, or will the quality drop? - Harish

Bhavishya: hmm, well, here's where we get into trouble with using version numbers. One wave morphs into the next wave, it isn't a binary thing (it doesn't just "appear" one day). The mashups I'm seeing coming next year are quite wild and aren't ANYTHING like what we were thinking about when people started talking about Web 2.0. - Robert Scoble

Harish: good question. I see the quality of user generated content increasing a lot once you can see some social capital behind the participation. Ask yourself, why is the participation here on FriendFeed so good? My answer: because there are very real social consequences for being an asshole here. - Robert Scoble

What business idea does Tim think would be a good web start up in a recession? - Kevin

i'd actually like to talk about web2.5--the innovations and corrections/tuning on 2.0 laying the groundwork for 3.0. and are we there? - mark silva

What are Tim's thoughts on Enterprise 2.0? Will it be as big as Web 2.0? Rationale? (This question is valid for Tim because E2.0 was derived from W2.0) - Chintan Zaveri

Spencer: I see smartphones drastically reducing the cost of getting information. This certainly will be true of the third world which doesn't have good computing infrastructure, but where tons of people have cell phones. - Robert Scoble

What could be the impact of the Obama administration on the web? Will the economic conditions change fundamentally? And - maybe a default subject - has he some advice for the newspaper industry? - After all he is a successful print and web publisher. - Heinz Wittenbrink from twhirl

Kevin, Chintan: good questions. It's interesting that I got to know Tim during the last downturn. - Robert Scoble

Well what about privacy? You talk about location awareness, status awareness, data being moved around in mashups, etc. - Pierre

hey robert, thought it was interesting how guy kawasaki promoted twitter--even more than his book or alltop--in your recent interview. can we learn what o'reilly's hot about (he posted recently about ceo tweeting, for instance, but what else?) and what he prefers, friendfeed or twitter. - mark silva

Pierre: awesome question too, but we all know privacy is dead. Want to see my medical records or credit card statement? We're getting pretty close to sharing even those things because there's some value that comes back to us if we do (ala mint.com or google's health services). - Robert Scoble

mark: Tim is a Twitter guy. I rarely see him show up here on FriendFeed. We will definitely talk about microblogging and the real-time web. - Robert Scoble

In the thinking stages, did he imagine Web 2.0 would evolve in the way that it has? If so, is he happy with the progress? What would he have changed? - Shevonne

Ask him about XBRL. It was mandated by the SEC this week. What does it mean. Is he interested. He'll have an interesting viewpoint, I'm sure. - Dominic Jones from twhirl

The question that I would like to ask would be if Web 1.0 was representative of a technological shift, and Web 2.0 was representative of a social shift, what revolutionary change will instigate the next big shift on the Internet? Place of interaction perhaps? - TheLovableRogue

I think you should ask, How does Web 3.0 enhances Web 2.0? - Michael Fidler from twhirl

Dominic: this is why I ask you all for feedback on interviews. I would never have thought to ask about XBRL. Thanks! - Robert Scoble

Robert - this (pre-interview brainstorming) is a great idea , which I shamelessly plan to steal and reuse myself. - Donald H Taylor

If it'll be 3.0, don't look at me, anyway what'll be paper 2.0 and tv 2.0? Thanks - Daniele Beta

Ask about Kindle ebook platform. Ask about ebooks overall as well. - Mark Rauterkus

Ask about costs. Costs of paper, production, shipping, HR, research, time, returns, damaged goods, and other 'sinks.' How are they being avoided / reduced. - Mark Rauterkus

Robert you can ask him how the symantec web is going to influence the search engine economy? Do we have to redefine the term "web search" for web 3.0? Are the huge companies like Google, Yahoo etc ready for the symantec web or for the next generation of the web overall? - Kivanc Toker

Ask him about istant web evolution and less great content published? I mean short content versus long old blog post ! - Christian

Suggestions to counter "Information overwhelming" on Web, Next era of filters, tools, techs capable to summarize loads of information adapting user preferences likes/dislikes from activity streams. - Ali Sohani

Given the recession at hand, how can Web 2.0+ and beyond help people and enterprises to reduce costs? - Neill Adamson

When will Enterprise 2.0 and Web 2.0 merge, when the business world "becomes one" with the consumer world through onlince social tools? - Zach Berg

Ok, then who decided what you state above? Did he also come up with 3.0? Your answer is generating more questions, and I'd like to hear his answers to the first ones, actually.... - Mike Shields

does he regret coming up with that term? and the what is next? surely not 3.0 maybe web 2.1 beta :p - Darren Stuart

Some random questions: - SaaS or Open Source? - According to Tim, which are the top 10 Web 2.0 technologies (Microblogging, Mashups, Blogs, Wikis, RSS, ... ) suitable for adoption in an organization for improving their capability - Open Source companies will earn "significantly" better revenues in 2009 than 2008. True or False? - Thoughts on Social Media versus Knowledge Management - Chintan Zaveri

I tweeted him a question about preservation and the fact that little of the Web 2.0 world is being preserved. Are we moving through a historical black hole when no one will be able to follow some important thinkers because all that they wrote from 1997-2008 will be lost? - Todd Carpenter

Another question related to "information overload" (and not to get too geeky for NPR, but): What are his thoughts about the future of semantics on the web and could that be the next gen on the internet? - Todd Carpenter

Todd: that's a real problem, the first two years of my blog are gone. But even worse is that Twitter is a black hole. Quick, pull out all conversations about the Chinese Earthquake that happened in the first three hours after the earthquake happened. You can't. That's even worse. The data is there, we can't get to it. - Robert Scoble

Ask him about consolidation. People generally use a wide variety of different web sites for different purposes (google/wikipedia/flickr/FB/amazon/etc) , each with its own user interface and idiosyncrasies. Does the fact that information should flow more freely in the future mean that we may see the birth of mega sites, which aggregate all this data, and allow much higher levels of interoperability and integration. Thanks - David Semeria

Todd: Have you seen Clay Shirky´s It's Not Information Overload. It's Filter Failure ? http://web2expo.blip.tv/file... - peter huesken

Robert: If the data is there it's just an issue of focus and worry about scale. If the data is replicated and caches (shouldn't change right :) ) all would be well just takes dev time which they don't have. - Ben Hedrington

They should contribute all old tweets to Archive.org! Now that's an idea. It's history right? - Ben Hedrington

Where does Assurance and Permanence live in this model. I built iForem to capture source + object to be saved for generations. The core is a legal trust that will insure the commodity services of the net will be supplied and the service maintained, Without some trust or real sustainable archive what good is much of the content we create for ourselves or others. Where is a TRUE digital time capsule so to speak? - stephen pieraldi

Ask him if he found a service for website referral analytics? If yes...which and why he chose that? - Andrea Vascellari

Ask him about the Safari books service. Any plans to make the site truly iPhone capable (a better mobile version of the site)? Right now the iPhone app is just a glorified PDF viewer. - Shazron Abdullah

Ask him how he thinks history would have been different if Hitler and Mother Theresa had lived in a time of facebook/twitter/friendfeed. - Tim Connors

I'm pretty sure it wasn't Tim O'Reilly who coined the term "web 2.0", but Dale Dougherty - albeit while in conversation with O'Reilly. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub... - carl morris

@Robert, you did it again! You called privacy dead ;-) It isn't. Priviacy is ust distributed unevenly, and yes you are in that post too : http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009... - Alexander van Elsas

Robert Scoble

25 ways to get likes on FriendFeed items. Discuss and post yours here:

November 25, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Richard pancakhaus Walker, Daniel W. Crompton, Ladybug Heather and 40 other people liked this

1. Post boob photos. - Robert Scoble

78 more comments

always include a picture - Carlos Ayala

Have a lot of followers, and then post lolcats. - Rishabh Mishra (p248) from IM

But not manboob photos. Nobody likes manboobs. - Mitch Wagner

2. Write a blog post about FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble

Actually do something interesting. - Alex Wilhelm (FF BLOWS)

3. Call Louis Gray names. - Robert Scoble

4. Blame Scoble. - Robert Scoble

catchy title - Zee.

5. Get blocked by Dave Winer. - Robert Scoble

like other peoples stuff - Zee.

Have Mona post it - Hutch Carpenter

Not be named Anika Malone. ROFL - Admiral Anika

Post in the confessions room...with an anonymous friendfeed crush - Zach Landes

got 4.... not sure about 3. His name says enough. 2 I can do. 1 not going to happen. - CW™

Recursion is key. You simply must recurse up your own rear end and talk about FriendFeed. - Andy C

Title the post "25 ways to ...." - Christine Cavalier

just make it bloody interesting... - Zee.

6. Post ANY reasonable rumors about Apple. - Robert Scoble

No more freakin' booooob pictures!! come on --- GET A ROOM for that :D - Susan Beebe

Post GOOD content with links that work! - Susan Beebe

7. Say anything about Twitter. Extrapoints if you are Kara Swisher. - Robert Scoble

Generate CONVERSATION around a topic and be sure to participate in them, like Scoble does :) - Susan Beebe

Sorry Robert, but likes come with ... LOLCats - AJ Kohn

8. Tweet naked. - Robert Scoble

sympathy pleas. - DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE from fftogo

Send Scoble $100 and have him talk about it. - Alex Wilhelm (FF BLOWS)

9. Like other people's posts on FriendFeed first. - Robert Scoble

#7 doesn't always works :P - Kristian Salonen

I am getting a sense of deju vu here -- this subject was covered in a post and comments a long time ago. Anybody have the link? - Brian Sullivan

10. Post news. - Robert Scoble

Include a comment to get the discussion going, and try to take a side (yeah, I'm not good at that part, but it seems that it helps.) Also, continue to comment on other comments, to keep the discussion going. Also, it helps to lead other people from other sites to your posts... Linkage, baby! - Danielle Closs

Or post unreasonable rumors about Apple. - Rishabh Mishra (p248) from IM

don't be %100 businesslike - İbrahim Uzun [ j ]

Even if you feel like no one is listening, keep posting through the bookmarklet. As they say in the radio industry, frequency sells. - Andrew

11. Block a troll and talk about it. - Robert Scoble

I would say pray, alas for my atheist tendencies! - Alex Wilhelm (FF BLOWS)

12. LOLcat photos. - Robert Scoble

n. Have an insane amount of subscribers. - Enrique Gutierrez

Post something that R.Scoble will 'like' =/ - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

13. Rickroll some ALister. - Robert Scoble

On another note, I liked this, because I'm interested in where it may go, and what others may say about it, so maybe also make the item in question a widely controversial or popular topic, that many people will find interesting or amusing and of which they may have an opinion on. - Danielle Closs

13. Unbox some gadget. - AJ Kohn

Be cute and funny. - Nine

14. Get video of Louis Gray drinking vodka. (I have tried to corrupt him and have failed). - Robert Scoble

Be beautiful not handsome and show it clearly. - İbrahim Uzun [ j ]

Do your darnedest to make FF an interesting place, then be embarrassed about it ;) - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

15. Like Steve Gillmor did bash FriendFeed (worth a like) and then praise it later (worth another like). - Robert Scoble

16. Do something unlikeable. - Robert Scoble

Document an A-Lister Slap-Flight (e.g - Riley v Arrington or Feldman v Israel) - AJ Kohn

17. Post FriendFeed items from someplace weird (I am in the lobby of the Palace Hotel in San Francisco). - Robert Scoble

Invite all your friend and tell them giving like helps them to gain Activity Points on Ffhollic. - İbrahim Uzun [ j ]

18. Say Mike Arrington is wrong. - Robert Scoble

Post kiddie pics - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

19. Be Barack Obama (the real one, not the fake one on FriendFeed which is actually owned by a Republican). - Robert Scoble

20. Favorite Thomas Hawk photos on Flickr. Stick in one of a good looking model. - Robert Scoble

...I´m posting this from the Atlantis Hotel in Dubai, check it out (combining #17 and #13) http://is.gd/4UWD - peter huesken

22. Post your FriendFeed stars (works best if you have me on your stars. Heheh.). - Robert Scoble

The scary things is that Scoble has probably done all of these things in the last two days. :) - Robert Miller

#20 only works if one has a significant number of followers that adore Thomas Hawk. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

23. Demonstrate your love of bacon. Or, maybe, your love of Mona). - Robert Scoble

24. Be Bret Taylor or Paul Bucheit and post about a new feature in FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble

25. Post your own list of 25 things on FriendFeed. If you can't do that then be Tad and start a photo meme. - Robert Scoble

I, er, I can't be Tad. He has a noisy bird. I have noisy dogs. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

fluffy bunnies always work for me :-) - Duncan Riley

I thought of something else. Make comments on other people's posts! Spread the love :) This is social networking after all, be social :) - Danielle Closs

Here ya go, comment! - Alex Wilhelm (FF BLOWS)

Be definitive about something you know nothing about - Tomoye Community Software

I think it's a bit rich when the starter of this thread made his name by posing in the shower....I mean, I hadn't heard of him until then I don't think....! - WorldofHiglet

WorldofHiglet: did you click "like" on that, though? - Robert Scoble

erm....I don't remember.....:O - WorldofHiglet

My next blog post is titled, "25 ways to get likes on FriendFeed items" :-) - Mike Fruchter

lol Mike....but I didn't 'like' this one yet..... - WorldofHiglet

SING! - Steven Perez

Gosh... just be interesting enough to read. - Orli Yakuel

This post is awesome!!! =D (Say something nice to Robert Scoble...check.) - David Cook

Post interactive wiki-type questions like this http://friendfeed.com/e... - sofarsoShawn

I think you missed number 21. :) - Daniel W. Crompton

#21 Find a Scoble omission and post it like Daniel did - Richard pancakhaus Walker

Link to a new service using Scoble's data: http://friendshelf.appspot.com/scoblei... - Michael R. Bernstein

US Politics: Joe Silence is not Santa

Goin' Rogue | The Daily Show | Comedy Central - http://www.thedailyshow.com/video...

November 4, 2008 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Russellreno, Karim, Donna Mugavero and 4 other people liked this

"They found Sarah Palin in the wild, taught her everything, and set her loose, but they forgot one thing: she couldn't be contained." - Joe Silence is not Santa from Bookmarklet

Classic Stewart. - Russellreno

Paul Buchheit

Excerpts of Seven Year-Old Obama Interview Cause Stir - http://www.wbez.org/Content...

October 29, 2008 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Atul Arora, Dan Morrill AKA Techwag and peter huesken liked this

"In 2001, Chicago Public Radio interviewed then Illinois State Senator Barack Obama about civil rights. Over the weekend, someone posted excerpts of the interview, edited to misrepresent Obama's statements. The item is now catching national attention. ... The twist here is that, when heard in the context of the whole show, Obama’s position is distinctly misrepresented by the You Tube posting. Taken in context, Obama is evaluating the historical successes and failures of the Civil Rights movement—and, ironically, he says the Supreme Court was a failure in cases that it took on a role of redistributing resources. The McCain campaign told ABC News it plans to use the material to bolster its criticism of Obama." - Paul Buchheit from Bookmarklet

4 more comments

Not supriseing at all. Could this turn a few votes mccains way? - Roberto Bonini

It doesn't matter at this point. McCain has lost and no amount of name-calling will help him in the few remaining days. - Stephen Foskett

I just got an email from someone who is no longer planning to vote for Obama due to this radio clip. - Paul Buchheit

It's stuff like this that wound up making my decision for me, but not in the way the McCain campaign would have hoped. - Jim Is Not Smart

I agree Jim. Neither candidate really represents my views, but McCain's attacks motivate me to vote for Obama because those tactics need to lose. - Paul Buchheit

Kol Tregaskes

BBC SPORT | Football | Maradona 'set to coach Argentina' - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1...

October 28, 2008 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

peter huesken, Cee Bee, sofarsoShawn and peiman liked this

"Argentina legend Diego Maradona could be set for a sensational return to football after claiming he has been offered the role of national coach." - Kol Tregaskes from Bookmarklet

2 more comments

Complete joke...yes he's one of the greatest of all time but I can't imagine this ending positively... - Live4Emma (L4S)

he's a joke indeed. embarrassing to have him as the head coach of the national team. every since he quit/kicked out of football, it's been a car crash - Cee Bee

Just to be clear, I don't like the guy. As a person, he's despicable. Now, it is true that after he left football he did awful things to himself and his family, but the last few years he's been doing really well. No more drugs, no more parties. He's even giving football exhibitions around the world (they are called show-ball). Still, I don't think he should be the coach of Argentina. He doesn't have enough experience, and our national team is doing badly enough to start doing experiments like this. - Alejandro

Philipp Lenssen

...

October 27, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Lurking Grue, Ming Tsai, Tony Ruscoe and 25 other people liked this

A like the friendfeed now very much. Still has this sort of Googlesque simplicity about it. Good job FF! - Gavin

Bret Taylor

FriendFeed Blog: Keeping it real with the FriendFeed Real-time API - http://blog.friendfeed.com/2008...

October 21, 2008 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Tyson Key, Laura Norvig, Mindaugas Dagys and 62 other people liked this

"If your application uses the FriendFeed API, you can now show FriendFeed updates to your users in real-time using the new FriendFeed Real-time API. We're providing access to the same underlying technology that's used by the real-time view on FriendFeed to all FriendFeed developers." - Bret Taylor from Bookmarklet

37 more comments

This is the gamechanger for FriendFeed - just wait and see - Ed Dale

sure it is! but hope friendfeed can scale better than twitter... - Aziz

Bret, IMHO, instead of providing such "fantasy" features for the API, you should raise the limits you told me that you weren't able to raise some months ago... But, heh, you decide :) - directeur from NoiseRiver

Nice work guys. Keep up the innovation and stay focused. - Louis Gray

directeur: mind sending an mail to api@friendfeed.com detailing what limits you are referring to? Sorry if we dropped something - it was likely just forgotten due to something else, but we can address your problem now with all the details. - Bret Taylor

Nice job. I would have preferred that the term "Real-Time" be reserved for an XMPP like implementation. As of now this feature is great but it is not exactly real-time. It is polling after all. This is a massive improvement though. Great work FF crew. Keep pushing the envelope. Don't fear the fire hose! - Rolf Schewe

Bret: Thanks for the answer, I'll send you an email ASAP with the details! Again thanks for the attention - directeur from NoiseRiver

Rolf, this API supports "long polling" -- it's every bit as realtime as XMPP. - Paul Buchheit

@Rolf: with long polling, you get updates as soon as we have them, so it is as real-time as XMPP, just a different delivery mechanism. - Bret Taylor

Bret, what's real-time in the case of Friendfeed? Really? I still have the picture of an axajy widget that refreshes and sends queries... It's pulling from the server, not the other way, right? - directeur from NoiseRiver

Gentlemen, Friendfeed 1.0 is a cool service. With RealTime API, I think we're looking at "killer app" with a huge breadth of applications. Well done. - John Craft

So it is also dependent on the delivery on the other end I suppose. I just don't get why I get some content fast such as Twitter and some after a long delay such as Google Reader shared items. - Rolf Schewe

Google Reader shared items are definitely not real-time. - Rolf Schewe

From a community building perspective - this real-time is more than enough. If your a programmer designing an app with the API - here is the NUMBER 1 request - Make sure your app doesn't jump out of the stream when you comment or like something - Ed Dale

on long polling vs xmpp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Karl Rosaen

I added Facebook today and tested to see the delay. The status message came through 1 hour later. I actually timed it. - Rolf Schewe

@rolf: ff servers have to decide how often to crawl the feeds; they don't have the luxury of a realtime api to all of those services. if you post something to ff directly, however, you'll notice it show up immediately - Karl Rosaen

Rolf- As Karl says, for incoming content we're at the mercy of the external providers. Our proposal for solving that side of the problem is called SUP: http://blog.friendfeed.com/2008... - Casey Muller

Casey, suppose I write an entry and delete it just after. Will it still be in the ral-time view for other users? - directeur from NoiseRiver

it will increasingly be helpful to know which feeds FF does have realtime access to - Steve Gillmor

So in essence the real-time feature is in some terms conditional on the outside services. Kind-of real-time. - Rolf Schewe

help us to put pressure on them by listing those who have XMPP pipes in - Steve Gillmor

directeur- Yes. Anybody (including API clients) monitoring the real-time feed will already have received the entry before you deleted it - Casey Muller

casey can you guys publish a list of inputs with polling frequency please - Steve Gillmor

The real innovation (sorry to insist on this) will be to process feeds on the user's level. Attention is the keyword. I DEFINITELY don't care about real-time. I want intersting stuff not fastly delivered ones... just sayin' :) - directeur from NoiseRiver

Steve, Twitter is the only service that sends updates by XMPP. All other services (except things posted directly on FriendFeed or via the API) arrive via RSS/Atom feeds, which are generally checked once every 1/2 hour. However, we also monitor several pinging services and utilize SUP to discover feed updates much faster and can often get new entries within a minute or two. - Paul Buchheit

out of curiosity, what does the ff realtime view set the timeout to? (i should clarify: I'm talking about calls from the client JS to the realtime APIs; what's the timeout of those requests) - Karl Rosaen

Karl, it's currently about 60 sec, but that's mainly due to concern about browser and proxy timeouts. The server responds as soon as there is an update, so there's no disadvantage to using a larger timeout. - Paul Buchheit

@Paul, thanks, i was wondering for a comparison to the timeout you'd need to use if supporting such an api from an app engine app (where you have to respond within 10 seconds or so I think) - Karl Rosaen

Thanks for the feedback and the links. It helped a lot. Maybe down the line we will be able to get RSS data in a little faster. The Google Reader floods can get a little heavy with the current polling interval. - Rolf Schewe

Paul would other sources who provide XMPP be accepted? Or is Twitter exclusive? - Steve Gillmor

Steve: We would be happy to support more XMPP services depending on the ease of implementation. It is certainly not exclusive to Twitter. - Bret Taylor

great to hear Bret - Steve Gillmor

Yeah, the long-polling isn't the long pole. - j1m

How many people out there a using FriendFeed Real-time? - Amir

moi - Zee.

oi (and remember, you're just asking friends of Bret, in this thread) - Christopher Galtenberg

I don't use the Real-time a lot but It's not bad - Amir

Keith Pelczarski

Colin Powell Endorses Barack Obama on Meet the Press - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

October 19, 2008 from YouTube favorites - Comment - Like - Share

Christian Stocker, Anne Bouey, Nancy King and 31 other people liked this

That's a really solid endorsement. Worth watching. - Paul Buchheit

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"is there a problem with 7-year old muslim-americans not thinking they can be President?" wow- what a great guy. Finally someone is saying the truth. This isn't the America.. .if they think Muslims can't be president. - anna sauce

Ditto @anna. Gen. Powell's endorsement is one of the best summaries I've heard of the differences between the two campaigns and the strengths/weaknesses of each. But the absolute best part was pointing out that not only is Obama not a Muslim, but it *doesn't matter* anyway. - Heidi Moon

I agree -- even outside of the endorsement and comments on the campaigns, these are the sorts of things we need to hear from more political leaders - Tom Stocky

He's spot-on. I couldn't have said it better myself. - Gabe

Wow! - April Buchheit

2008 Debates: DeWitt Clinton

I made a Wordle.net chart of McCain's speech. You saw it here first!

October 15, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

mjc, Jason Toney, Kyle Hebert and 34 other people liked this

lol! - Carlos Ayala

7 more comments

NICE!!! He loves his VOTERS - Susan Beebe

ROFLMFAO!!! - Admiral Anika

Perfect! - jcunwired

Thisis great!! don't forget my friends - maryn

honestly, it could use a little whine. :-) - jcunwired

HAHAHAHA - Trish R

lol - xero

too much coffee in this election mess -- average coffee, american coffee and now coffee in the plumbing. Well, I guess too much coffee does things to the plumbiing. - George Brett

2008 Debates: Chris Baskind

If McCain blinks any faster, his eyeballs are going to catch fire.

October 15, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Russellreno, Cheryl Jones, Alex Scoble and 14 other people liked this

I hope his tear ducks don't stop working. That friction will start a fire. - Aaron Hood

6 more comments

Haha. Great mental image of ducks coming out of his eyes. Thanks, Aaron. - Rochelle

Maybe it's code. - Bonnie Dean

LOL - Melissa

I thought blinking eyes is a sign of lying. - Laura Norvig

You're welcome. I'm on my iPhone so my typing isn't quite top notck...notch. - Aaron Hood

Maybe his eyes are dry. Dry eyes are common in geriatrics. - Rochelle

Yes, but he's also got bright lights on him. - xero

Robert Scoble

FriendFeed Real Time just got onto TechMeme. http://www.techmeme.com/#a08101... -- link to it and get it even higher! Oh, and I'm seeing people here already that I haven't seen for a while. I hope FriendFeed's servers can handle new loads!

October 15, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Anne Bouey, Louis Gray, Karim and 12 other people liked this

they've got how many million in the bank...? they should be prepared & fine. - Zee.

6 more comments

wow that was fast! - Susan Beebe

hi susan ,,, - johnpiercy

FF won't go down, Robert, they've done architecture right, unlike twitter - Prolific Programmer

Hi Andy. You need to find the head of the thread to like it; It appears you can't 'like' comments - martin english

Hi John!! :) - Susan Beebe

how are ya - johnpiercy

hmm... well I have IRC, don't think I need this - Michael Neale

Loic Le Meur

John Cleese on Sarah Palin - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

October 14, 2008 from YouTube favorites - Comment - Like - Share

Aziz, David HC Soul, ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ and 7 other people liked this

Enjoyed the disclaimer. - Kate Foy

4 more comments

yeah Kate I think it was a necessary disclaimer - Loic Le Meur

You know... at first blush, she is very endearing. It is a little more unnerving to see here over and over though. I generally consider myself moderate, with some key issues that usually swing me one way or the other. On this election, a radio announcer on NPR once said, "In this election it is not the normal lesser of two evils, but the evil of two lessers." I'm really struggling with both camps during this election - and none of the candidates are helping themselves in my opinion. Good post, Loic. - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge

I think that many would feel the same way if you replace "Sarah Palin" with "Barack Obama" - Corey Smith from twhirl

Michael Palin is intentionally funny. Sarah doesn't relaise she is... - Terry O'Fee

I don't know anyone that would feel that way Corey... Obama may be many things, but he's not a bumbling stereotype. - Chrimmus Tad

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