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EDITORIAL: Hiding evidence of global cooling - Washington Times #copenhagen - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...
"Mr. Jones further urged Mr. Mann to join him in deleting e-mail exchanges about the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's (IPCC) controversial assessment report (ARA): "Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re [the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report]?"" Could this be the same IPCC report that is referred to in the "Climate Treaty" on the table at Copenhagen which Obama supports?
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :. - http://epw.senate.gov/public...
"Melanie Morgan: So what will you be calling for an investigation of? Senator Inhofe: On the IPCC and on the United Nations on the way that they cooked the science to make this thing look as if the science was settled, when all the time of course we knew it was not."
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of ‘Anthropogenic Global Warming’? – Telegraph Blogs - http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news...
Isn't this about the same scientists who provided the "research" that was used to draft the climate treaty that Obama just said he was going to Copenhagen to support? Didn't I just say, in another post, that this data was "trustworthy?" Silly me! >.>
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Obama to attend beginning of U.N. climate meeting - http://www.reuters.com/article...
"Environmentalists had hoped Obama would be present for the leaders meeting at the end of the talks to give legitimacy to a "politically binding" agreement that host Denmark still hopes to achieve." Isn't this the meeting that Obama said he would NOT be attending just a couple of weeks ago? Good thing we can trust Obama's word especially since the climate science is so trustworthy. >.>
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
CBS 2 Exclusive: Back From The Dead - wcbstv.com
#killbill #nobamacare - http://wcbstv.com/seenat1...
"Special cooling pads, not available in all emergency rooms, lowered his body temperature to 91 degrees, essential in preventing long-term neurological damage and preserving brain function." Don't expect to find this kind of treatment under Obamacare. It doesn't matter if it's the Senate, House or Administration's version, either. Government health care will remove all trace of humanity from our health care system in favor of politically expedient "efficiency" as they scramble to give the appearance of "cutting" costs. Call your Senators and tell them to defeat this disastrous government take over of 1/5th of the American economy.
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
China expert warns of pandemic flu mutation
#killbill #nobamacare - http://www.reuters.com/article...
Roberto Bonini liked this
"Some local healthcare authorities are reluctant, unwilling to test patients with severe pneumonia because there's some latent rule which says the more H1N1 deaths, the less effective the control and prevention work in your area" This is what Obamacare will look like #killbill #nobamacare
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Obama Shatters Spending Record for First-Year Presidents - FOXNews.com - http://www.foxnews.com/politic...
Roberto Bonini liked this
YOU would buy health insurance from this man?
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
yeah, sure why not.
- Giraffes Up In The AIr
You don't get health insurance from him, you get health insurance from congress - whole different ballgame.
- Roberto Bonini
Its like asking if you'd buy health insurance from Tony blair, or gordon brown.
- Roberto Bonini
Obama Shatters Spending Record for First-Year Presidents: If not him then it would have been McCain. Someone had to fix all the problems from the Bush Reign!
- Mark Layton
Mark Levin: http://www.marklevinshow.com/Article... via @addthis
Mark Levin "Call These Senators & Tell Them to Vote No on Reid’s Health Care Bill (Remember Be Polite)" #killbill #nobamacare - http://www.marklevinshow.com/Article...
Call or email these four Senators and tell them to vote NO on Reid's Health Care Bill
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
American Thinker: The Cloward/Piven Strategy of Economic Recovery - http://www.americanthinker.com/2009...
This is how they plan to destroy America
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Senate bill includes the Botox tax - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com #killbill #nobamacare - http://www.politico.com/livepul...
Roberto Bonini liked this
Pelosi isn't going to like this at all. >.>
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Colbert!!!
- Roberto Bonini
The $100 Million Health Care Vote? - The Note #killbill #nobamacare - http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote...
Roberto Bonini liked this
Can't beat em? Buy em!
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Climate sceptics claim leaked emails are evidence of collusion among scientists | Environment | guardian.co.uk - http://www.guardian.co.uk/environ...
Stagnating Temperatures: Climatologists Baffled by Global Warming Time-Out - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International - http://www.spiegel.de/interna...
Obama: Too much debt could fuel double-dip recession
| Markets
| Markets News
| Reuters - http://www.reuters.com/article...
Maxamad liked this
This coming from the TARPMEISTER Obama?!?!? As he's trying to pass a TRILLION dollar healthcare disaster?!?!? This administration must be replaced. Call your senators and tell them to defeat Obamacare if they want to keep their jobs.
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
"TARPMEISTER"? You do realize that TARP was a Bush program, right? This is why "conservatives" make me laugh: their tenuous grip on reality and fact.
- Bren, Photophobe
I don't remember Bush signing it.
- Spencer
He signed it Oct. 3, 2008. http://www.brainyhistory.com/events...
- Bren, Photophobe
Again, tenuous grip on fact...
- Bren, Photophobe
Hilarious -- all of these Sarah Palin "conservatives" sound like small children -- third graders in their grasp of facts.
- Sean McBride
intellectually honest, rational conservatives cringe when they see this sort of drivel with the "conservative" moniker attached.
- Bren, Photophobe
"Sarah Palin" conservatives. Look, the moonbats have a new saying again. LOL.
- Spencer
Spencer: try focusing on the facts, rather than on what sort of funny nickname you can come up with for people with whom you do not agree. You may find that it helps your cause a bit more.
- Bren, Photophobe
Obama had a vote on TARP in the Senate. Obama then expanded TARP with his own "stimulus" packages which are a complete disaster. That is reality.
- pitlord
Besides, this thread is about Obama's hypocrisy in warning agains too much government spending as he fights to expand government enough to collapse the whole system so he can replace it with his own Marxist nightmare.
- pitlord
Reality is: TARP passed a republican controlled congress, and was signed by a republican president. Yes, Obama added other stimulus packages, which could be part of the reason that the economy has improved to the degree that it has, or it may not have anything to do with it. Either way, saying "well he did it too" does not relieve Bush or the republicans of responsibility for the massive mess they created.
- Bren, Photophobe
And again, "Marxist"? Tenuous grip on fact *and* reality. You are embarrassing yourself.
- Bren, Photophobe
Oh, so only republicans created the "mess"?
- Spencer
No, Spencer, that is not what I said. What I said was, the republican controlled congress, and the republican president should take responsibility for the mess that was created under their watch.
- Bren, Photophobe
I would never say that "only" one side or the other is responsible for the things that happen in this country. That would be the purview of "conservatives" who can't even accept the fact that the explosions in government spending that have led, inexorably to today's giant debt, largely started with Reagan, and the cost of our failed war in Iraq and Bush's unwillingness to focus on...
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- Bren, Photophobe
The War in Iraq is not failed, well at least not until Obama got his hands on it. Todays "giant" debt can be blamed on many people, but the fact is Obama has spent more in one year almost, than Bush, Clinton, and Bush combined. Health care "reform" is ridiculous. Anyone who thinks government can do a good job is crazy. They can't even manage a flu vaccine right.
- Spencer
Reality is: the congress has been controlled by the Dems since 06.
- pitlord
Reality is: Obama is a hypocrite and Obamacare would be a complete disaster for generations to come.
- pitlord
My mistake, Pitlord.
- Bren, Photophobe
That is an interesting *opinion* pitlord, but not by any measure, a fact. edit: do we need to review the definitions of 'fact' and 'opinion'?
- Bren, Photophobe
Bren, it is the liberals like Obama who sanction corporate welfare. Conservatives want to lower taxes and eliminate government spending. The problem with liberals is they actually believe that people like Bush and McCain are conservative.
- pitlord
Pitlord: all politicians sanction corporate welfare because, for the most part, they are all in the pocket of one corporation or another. I've long maintained that the difference between democrats and republicans is which special interest group they are beholden to. Ultimately pitlord, by your definition, there are no "conservatives" in the federal government. Unfortunate for conservatives, eh? I wonder why no one will vote for people like that?
- Bren, Photophobe
Bren -- you have posted some very intelligent and insightful comments in this thread.
- Sean McBride
You are mistaking small businesses with corporations. Liberals are in the pockets of huge corporations like Google, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac providing them with bailouts and subsidies that are taken from us taxpayers. Conservatives support small businesses, but rather than give them tax payer's money, they support them by lowering taxes. Which means more money and more jobs for everyone. That was one of the conservative moves that Bush was responsible for.
- pitlord
Obama more than doubles the federal deficit of his predecessor in less than one year and then has the chutzpah to "warn" us about too much debt? That is the epitome of hypocrisy. I wonder why anyone would vote for someone like that. Oh, wait. The last election shows that the people AREN'T voting for someone like that. Obama will be defeated along with his disastrous policies.
- pitlord
Spencer, that was a handy graph, thank you. ^^ http://blog.heritage.org/wp-cont...
- pitlord
Conservatives support small businesses? like Morgan Stanley, Chase, Lehman Brothers, and Wachovia?
- Bren, Photophobe
Like the military-industrial complex? The oil industry?
- Sean McBride
yes, Sean... small business like that. edit: you know, mom and pop operations like Halliburton, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon ...
- Bren, Photophobe
Morgan Stanley, Chase, Lehman Brothers, and Wachovia are all contributors to liberal causes and politicians.
- pitlord
Most major corporations contribute to both liberal and conservative politicians, pitlord. how many officials from those companies had jobs in Bush's administration, though?
- Bren, Photophobe
More companies supported by democrats: Occidental Petroleum, General Electric, AFLAC, Staples, Time Warner all supported by liberal corporate policies.
- pitlord
According to Common Dreams, 53% of money from Microsoft and it's employees went to Republicans, pitlord...
- Bren, Photophobe
You're funny, pitlord... what do you mean by 'liberal corporate policies"?
- Bren, Photophobe
How many have a job in Obama's administration? How many "czars" does he have now hand picked like WMD Czar, Gary Samore former Director of the Council on Foreign Relations; or Technology Czar - Aneesh Chopra who worked at Morgan Stanley; what about TARP Czar - Herb Allison who worked at Merrill Lynch for 28 years.
- pitlord
Interesting how Common Dreams had to include donations from MS employees to get that number. Microsoft, Google and even Apple are huge supporters of liberal politicians who make it easier for them to keep the smaller competitors out of the market by stacking the deck to keep the "too big to fail" corporations in control while keeping the "greedy business owners" down.
- pitlord
I mean the policies that our congress makes to govern corporations.
- pitlord
The bottom line is Obama is being a hypocrite and any politician who supports his Marxist policies is an enemy of the freedom and liberty that Americans have fought and died for generations to uphold.
- pitlord
when you throw in the word "Marxist" you diminish the quality of your argument, because you make yourself sound ignorant. Obama is a hypocrite, as are most politicians, because compromising your values is the way to get elected. It's unfortunate that that is the case, but such is life. You will notice that there are no politicians at the highest levels that can remain true to their principles because they don't get elected that way, and if they do, they don't stay.
- Bren, Photophobe
Your failure to recognize Obama's Marxist policies for what they are proves your ignorance.
- pitlord
I've read Karl Marx's works, and those of his disciples -- Obama is no Marxist. He's more a progressive in the tradition of Republican Teddy Roosevelt.
- Sean McBride
ignorance, pitlord? have you ever even read Marx? Do you even know what Marxism is about? I think the hashtag should be #TGOR instead of #TCOT (that's "tenuous grip on reality") ...for you to call me "ignorant" in the same thread where you blame Obama for TARP and equate him with a Marxist is laughable, at best. I'm bored with this nonsensical conversation. If I wanted to listen to Rush Limbaugh, I would listen to Rush Limbaugh, but I don't, because he is full of sh*t, and so are you.
- Bren, Photophobe
Like you said the problem with Liberals is that they think Bush is a conservative; the problem with "conservatives" is that they think Obama is a Marxist. The problem is: they don't have any idea what a Marxist is -- clearly.
- Bren, Photophobe
"Progressive" is the code word for Marxist policies. And yes I've read Marx he advocates destabilizing the economy to shut down the economic engine of capitalism allowing government to step in and take control. All part of his 10 planks.
- pitlord
so now Teddy Roosevelt was a Marxist, too? wow. I'm going to have to hide this thread... "just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in..." #TGOR
- Bren, Photophobe
Pitlord -- you think that Teddy Roosevelt was a Marxist and that the American Progressive movement was Marxist? On what grounds?
- Sean McBride
Left-wing radicals have absconded and bastardized the term "Progressive" for their own use. In it's modern context "progressive" is a code word for Marxist. A quick Google search yielded these two articles which illustrate this point and with which I agree: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDe... and http://www.sullivan-county.com/id5...
- pitlord
That may be, but Sean defined what he meant by progressive. Whatever subtext you choose to assign, there really was no ambiguity in what Sean said. #TGOR
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
Nobody accused Sean of being ambiguous. Regardless of Sean's assertions, or your dismissive attitude, Obama is no Teddy Roosevelt.
- pitlord
He's also no Lenin, Mao or Fidel. I am dismissive because I can not possibly take seriously your assertion that Obama is a Marxist. #TGOR
- Bren, Photophobe
in a consumer economy the double dip is more likely fueled by spending cuts on a state and federal level, Obama turning 'deficit hawk' with 10% unemployment will sink any recovery in the mire. Deficit games play well on Wall Street but do only damage on Main street -- likely 2010 goes Republican if Obama continues this...
- WarLord
Don't take me seriously, take it from Marx himself. Look at Marx's 10 planks for establishing communism. 1) Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. Obama recently announced a "bailout" for homeowners where Uncle Sam will take their deed and rent the homeowner's own land back to them. 2) A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. We've had...
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- pitlord
In that case, we've been a Marxist state for a long time, and the Republicans are no better than the Democrats. Obama, everyone who voted for TARP, all of the union members and leaders in this country (my very Republican uncle will be very unhappy to hear that because he is in a union he is a Marxist) are all Marxists, anyone educated in a public school... No wonder your so-called "True Conservatives" will never be elected. #TGOR
- Bren, Photophobe
"Marxist" as defined by Pitlord describes the political mainstream among all major political parties in America and Europe (and the rest of the world) for decades.
- Sean McBride
Apparently Sean and Bren fully embrace the Marxist ideology as defined by Karl Marx and welcome the opportunity to have their lives taken over and run by government. Maybe we should develop some kind of political exchange program where we send Marxists like them to countries like China and Cuba in exchange for people from those countries who are willing to work hard to live with freedom and liberty.
- pitlord
David -- if you were a man of principle, wouldn't you move to Jerusalem or to a West Bank settlement? Why don't you? It seems unwise of you to go down the "love it or leave it" path, given your ideological profile, peculiar predilections and divided national loyalties. Regarding my own politics: Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine are two of my greatest heroes among influential...
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- Sean McBride
David -- this is a serious question: which group do you think is the biggest threat to Israel and "the Jews" (you've made it clear that this is the focus of your politics): Marxists? Muslims? Christians? Christian Zionists? Europeans? Arabs? Palestinians? Iranians? left-wing "self-hating" Jews? right-wing militant Jewish nationalists?
- Sean McBride
Sean, the difference between us is that I still believe in the system of checks and balances that our founders put in place to protect our liberties as free men. You seem to believe that men must be coerced to behave in some particular way that YOU deem appropriate. Even from Israel I have internet access and living there does not preclude my American citizenship. As to the differences...
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- pitlord
David -- wait: you are posting from Israel, as an Israeli citizen? And you are arrogantly urging Americans who disagree with your extremist Likud politics to get out of America? Priceless! :) I am curious: are you posting from within the occupied territories?
- Sean McBride
Regarding my views: I consider checks and balances, and habeas corpus, to be sacred principles -- that is why, among other reasons, I strongly opposed the Bush 43 administration. I also believe, along with the Founding Fathers, in the strict separation of church and state and freedom of religion (as well as freedom from religion). Nothing could be further from authentic Americanism than the messianic ethno-religious nationalism you have embraced.
- Sean McBride
Sean, when you learn to stop making assumptions maybe you'll start to find the truth instead of fabricating your own. I am not in Israel and even if I was I would still be an American. There are many people with dual citizenship who vote and pay taxes in both countries. Secondly I have never suggested that anyone be forced to embrace any religion. If you consider checks and balances and...
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- pitlord
Excuse me for being confused in parsing your English prose: you wrote: "Even from Israel I have internet access and living there does not preclude my American citizenship." You know, I am beginning to wonder if the policy of dual citizenship should be revoked -- it has the potential to create too many problems flowing from conflicts of interest. I am the citizen of a single country --...
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- Sean McBride
I actually don't understand what pitlord is trying to say any more. Obama is a Marxist, I am a Marxist, Sean is a Marxist, everyone who doesn't agree with him is automatically a Marxist. That is the default, go-to argument. He doesn't like a policy: must be Marxist. I'm not with Sean in detesting Marx and Marxism, I think the theory is fine, I just don't think it is practical on a large scale. The fact is, on a familial level, almost everyone is a Marxist...
- Bren, Photophobe
That is, in our own homes, among our families, most of us practice a sort of communist lifestyle. When people have tried to expand it out to cover nations, and introduced the massive, oppressive state apparatus to enforce it, it has failed miserably by most metrics. In any case, I think the argument that Unions and public schools and a semi-state owned rail system make for a Marxist...
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- Bren, Photophobe
Pitlord: I don't know if you saw this or not, but I think you should ... http://ff.im/bGCGo
- Bren, Photophobe
Bren -- I think Karl Marx had many important insights into historical, social and economic processes -- everyone should study him. But Marxism-Leninism was a messianic totalitarian ideology which was doomed to spectacular failure from the moment it was conceived. As for Pitlord's used of the word "Marxist" as a smear term -- I suspect it's a synonym for "Amalek" (look it up). This...
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- Sean McBride
Bren, I'm glad you are finally starting to understand Obama's Marxist policies. Also, I'd like to know how "Marxist" can be a smear term if it's true? It is telling how Mr. McBride has chosen to link his every negative assessment with Judeo-Christian theology though he was hesitant to attribute Muslim zealotry to the Ft. Hood shooter.
- pitlord
I am actually stunned that you misread what I wrote so thoroughly, pitlord. If you were curious why I was dismissive of you, your last comment is exactly why. Bending what you see to fit your narrow and dogmatic worldview is not productive, and does not contribute to a better understanding of your vision of how things should be. In fact, I would be hard-pressed to explain what it is you...
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- Bren, Photophobe
But the fact that you are now trying to twist my words into some sort of tacit agreement with your nonsense is more clear evidence of your intellectual dishonesty, and your #TGOR. I have tried not to resort to any sort of personal attacks, and I will continue to refrain, but I must say that your silliness is rather disappointing from a debate point of view.
- Bren, Photophobe
Wow, you can't even recognize sarcasm? And my view is "narrow and dogmatic" because I don't agree with you? If you completely fail to recognize the fact that Obama is pushing America in a decidedly Marxist direction then what kind of discussion you want to have? If you can't recognize the fact that our capitalist, free-market, republican system of government is the framework upon which our great society is built then where is our conversation supposed to lead?
- pitlord
pitlord: your sarcasm didn't translate well in written form, sorry I didn't catch it. I've already addressed the fact that Obama is not pushing America anywhere remotely like a Marxist direction, so I suppose there is no discussion to have. You are locked in on a belief that is not shared by very many people, that is not well supported by fact, and that ignores so many factors as to be described accurately only as narrow.
- Bren, Photophobe
Actually, I am not sure why I am still engaged in this pointless circle jerk of a conversation. I'm never going to be able to get you to see reality, and you are never going to seduce me into your madness. All I can be is thankful that your brand of political discourse will always be marginalized, because rational people will not buy in. #TGOR
- Bren, Photophobe
Please forgive me, I was unclear with my sarcasm. Unfortunately, I took your abject exaggeration of the fact that I clearly showed that Obama does indeed support Marxist policies for America as an indication that you had no interest in a discussion. I'm sorry but you never addressed Obama's Marxist tendencies with any facts, you just exaggerated my points to make them appear unreasonable. You simply have done nothing to dispute his Marxist ideologies.
- pitlord
Of course, you are dismissing the fact that "my brand" of political discourse is not only on the rise but is dominant among Americans. You can choose to believe whatever you want, but as this last election has shown and as we will see in the next election a little less than a year from now, the majority of Americans are looking for truly conservative candidates who support a free and democratic republic and reject the fascist, socialist vision the loony left has of our country.
- pitlord
I exaggerated your points? In what sense? I even linked to this discussion so people could read you verbatim. What I have said is that all of the "evidence" you have provided for him being Marxist could be said of almost every mainstream politician in America in the last 100 or more years. Which is also why I think that "your brand" of politics will never gain currency because from your description anyone who could get enough votes to gain high office would be a Marxist in your analysis. #TGOR
- Bren, Photophobe
And I love that, even though I have not resorted to name-calling, you went to the "loony left" blast. That will certainly bolster your argument. As long as you only want to appeal to people who already agree with you, you should be just fine. Good luck with that. #TGOR
- Bren, Photophobe
I pointed out on each of Karl Marx's 10 planks how America has moved or is moving toward policies that are compatible with Marx's agenda. In your response you suggested that I was making the claim that America is already a Marxist state. That's an exaggeration and is patently false. Apparently you have quelled yourself into a comfortable state of inaction with your tacit acceptance that...
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- pitlord
Is it an exaggeration or patently false? It can't really be both. I did not suggest that you were making the claim that America is already a Marxist state, I simply showed that based upon your analysis, one would come to the conclusion that it was. I was attempting, I think rather successfully, to illuminate the logical disconnect in your argument. That you do not see the disconnect is not surprising. #TGOR
- Bren, Photophobe
As for my disparaging comment about the "loony-left," I have no misconceptions that anything I say or do will sway the opinion of the hardcore left. If you took that as a personal insult then you'll have to come to terms with your own radical political affiliations eventually. BTW don't act like telling people who disagree with you that they have a "tenuous grip on reality" is...
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- pitlord
Sorry, I do not see how you exposed any kind of logical "disconnect" with my analysis. You simply took the position that because there are some planks of Marx's agenda which haven't yet been fully realized then Obama's policies couldn't possibly be Marxist. Your argument is a logical fallacy. And yes an exaggeration can and generally is false.
- pitlord
Also, you DID suggest that I was claiming that America has already become a Marxist state: "There you have it. Unequivocal proof that we are a Marxist state, and that Obama (and anyone else whose policies align with the previous 10 statements) is a Marxist. just ask pitlord." -Bren, Photophobe
- pitlord
A) I don't agree that an exaggeration is generally false. I think, by definition it is an overstatement of fact. B) I used *your* points about Marxism, which is why I referenced you as a source for the points. I did not say that you claimed America was a Marxist state, I said that your analysis could be used as proof that it is, if one were to accept your analysis. C) I do not take "loony left" as a personal insult, but I think that dismissing anyone on the left as "loony" is short-sighted
- Bren, Photophobe
Lastly, #TGOR is meant to refer to any argument, on any side, that is not based on fact. For example, calling Obama the "Tarpmeister" when TARP was a holdover from the previous administration would demonstrate a #TGOR.
- Bren, Photophobe
TARP was a program that Obama supported and expanded with his own, even bigger "TARP" style programs after taking office. Like it or not, that is reality. A) obviously we'll have to agree to disagree. B) Yes you did. See your quote that I posted above. C) "Loony left" is only dismissive of liberals with a socialist, fascist vision of our country. Other lefties are not necessarily loony, but maybe misguided.
- pitlord
White House aides: No Afghan decision before Thanksgiving "You guys make a pretty good photo op," the president said. - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...
Obama arrived on the base 3:19 p.m. local time (1 a.m. Eastern Standard Time) and received a rousing welcome from 1,500 troops in camouflage uniforms, many holding cameras or pointing cell phones to snap pictures. "You guys make a pretty good photo op," the president said.
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
The Energizer Health Care Bill ....it keeps growingand gro and growing and growing..... 11/4/2009 - squareonemedia on Blog Talk Radio
#killbill - http://www.blogtalkradio.com/squareo...
midnightgolfer, Spencer and Craig Eddy liked this
eeeeyeah, the bill is growing, and that is (of course) a problem. not, however, as big a problem comparatively as the rate by which insurance is hiking their profits & exec salaries at the expense of recipients - both financially and to the detriment of their health. killbill? no effing way, brah...but you have fun.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Get your facts straight, insurance companies operate on a very small profit margin. They make even less money than railroads, cleaning product manufacturers and restaurants! http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2...
- pitlord
I once worked for an oil company that never turned a profit, funny how that works, Fact is that insurance companies make outrageous profits, they just know how to shield it.
- Rene Wirtz
revenue does not always equal profit
- pitlord
There we agree. But, I also know how to make a big profit "disappear", so it looks like the margins are really slim and this typically how companies that generate huge amounts of profits (oil ompanies, insurance companies, banks, investment banks, pharmaceutics) operate. Everyone knows that. If you really believe that insruance companies really operate on a small margin you are delusional.
- Rene Wirtz
The same accounting tricks are available to every industry. That doesn't change the insurance businesses' ranking on the list.
- pitlord
David, I used to work inside an HMO...I don't need to read any blog to know what the profit margins are. Nor am I remotely interested in what you're calling "facts" here - having experienced the reality first-hand.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Further, you're also forgetting another little lovely item known casually as monopoly. One facet of health care reform is breaking up the only industry that is exempt from anti-trust laws. We're not aiming to put private insurance companies out of business. The idea on that count is to level the playing field. It's yet another facet of this discussion where your "facts" are skewed.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Happy listening anyway.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
By all means, share with us your inside information about the insurance business. The problem is that a private company, like an insurance company, has a legal fiduciary duty to make a profit. They have no reason to hide their profit margins, if they are making money they crow about it from the highest rooftops to attract more investors. So show us how and why they are hiding profits from their investors.
- pitlord
As for a monopoly. How can any of them have a monopoly when they aren't even allowed to operate accross state lines? In fact, how can their be a "monopoly" when we refer to them in the plural? Doesn't that imply there is more than one of them? If you are so against a monopoly how would you feel about the government operated monopoly like the one Obama and his supporters are trying to...
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- pitlord
What you completely ignore, David, are the very problems with your assertions that you're trying to tout as positive facets. Yes, all businesses (including insurance companies) have a "duty" to make a profit. Nobody with any understanding of the nature of business would argue that point - although, some might question the ethics and morals of turning a profit at the expense of client...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Operating across state lines. Okay...I'm not sure if you're aware of *why* insurance companies cannot operate across state lines, and I don't know if you've ever tried to contact *your* state's insurance commissioner when you've ever had problems with your coverage. Only you can answer that question. Each state has certain regulatory compliance issues that govern who *beneficiaries* can...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
If even a fraction of the "denial of care," resulting in death and misery, that you constantly claim happened it would be front page news. Show me "tripling and quadrupling premiums" because nobody has even suggested that's the case. How convenient for you to claim a criminal conspiracy to rob people of their premiums without paying for services and then say you won't reveal your...
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- pitlord
Now your argument is that you didn't really mean "monopoly" and that I "ignored" their exemption from anti-trust laws. You didn't read my comment because I specifically said it was a great idea to hold them to anti-trust laws. The only problem is they aren't violating any. Again you make false claims that people are "dying and losing coverage" with absolutely nothing to support your...
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- pitlord
Preventing this bill to pass will lead to disaster. Don't like it, move! You and your vile ilk are holding the USA back, back in the 1800s. So, David C Cooper, what are you holding a PhD in? Or any degree? I told you before, I think you need to ask your education money back, you are the prime example of someone uneducated and misinformed.
- Rene Wirtz
Anybody who thinks the government would efficiently and wisely manage your healthcare is absolutely crazy. Regardless, government healthcare is un-Constitutional.
- Spencer
Inserting religious beliefs into law is unconstitutional! Separation of state in church, look it up, it's in there!
- Rene Wirtz
Rene, you got that backwards the government is not allowed to impose political beliefs on religious institutions. Religious belief is inherent in the law. Otherwise, the founders would never have recognized The Divine Creator in our founding documents you dumbass.
- pitlord
Pitlord, you may be right, but you don't help anything with the whole "dumbass" comment. Rene, "vile ilk" makes you sound like a sore winner to me. For the majority of my voting life, I have registered as a Republican. Right now, the law-making "ball" is so entirely in your court, it astounds me that your "ilk" waste time worrying about what my "ilk" even think, as you don't need a single Conservative or Republican to go along with you in order to get anything your hearts' desire passed as law right now.
- midnightgolfer
No worries. midnightgolfer, David and I have agreed to dislike each other with a passion. And pitlord is not right, he is interpreting the constitution to his needs. And I'm not gonna point it out either, because he will deny it anyway and twist my words, He knows this too.
- Rene Wirtz
"is interpreting the constitution to his needs" -- My wife's psychiatrist calls that "projecting" and I'm used to ignoring it, while at the same time not accepting it or "enabling" it.
- midnightgolfer
I have never attacked you on a personal level, and until now you've reciprocated, but this? *rolls eyes* David, how about this. You believe whatever you choose. My doctoral, by the way, isn't a PhD - it's a DM, and quite frankly, I already came out and said that you could interpret my statement however you chose - which you did, predictably. If you think I give a rat's ass about YOUR...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Midnightgolfer you have a good point. I recant comparing Rene to a silent pack animal. Also, I reaffirm my arguments against the radical Marxist agenda which is being supported by the arguments of Denise and Rene.
- pitlord
Rene nobody has to twist your words, you do a fine job of presenting a perverted distortion of reality all by yourself.
- pitlord
Denise, the fact that you veil your insults with sarcasm and innuendo doesn't make them any less personal. Think what you want, the fact remains that the American people are revolting against the disastrous healthcare legislation that this nightmarish Obama administration is trying to foist on the country.
- pitlord
David, I attack your *weak arguments* - I have never attacked YOU as an individual - either your education, your career, your whatever that is personal. Just your words. In fact, if we really want to go all the way back and look at the dialogue, yes, I'll cop to sarcasm. So the fuck what? You're no innocent patron saint on that count either. However, insulting? No. Like I said. Fuck...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Denise, I thoroughly trounced your "attack" on my arguments as invalid. Your claims of insurance company monopolies and profits were refuted and debunked. I provided references to outside sources to back up my arguments. How did you respond? You implied that you have inside information that you were unwilling to share for fear that it might hurt your job opportunities in the future. I...
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- pitlord
I owe YOU no answers, for you do not pay my salary. If (and that is a big if) I choose to disclose my experiences, it won't be to YOU. Go to hell, you worthless waste of oxygen. There, is that insulting enough for you?
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
I call delusional worthless piece of shit? Did I win anything? OK, back to my regular schedule of baby eating ...
- Rene Wirtz
A brand new shiny paperclip, Rene...lol. That's about all this thread and its originator is worth anyway.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
*stares at the awesomeness of shiny paperclip*
- Rene Wirtz
There you go, attacking my "arguments" again. If by "arguments" you mean unalienable rights as endowed by our Creator. >.>
- pitlord
You're the one into creationism, moron. The level of stupidity required to actually believe that garbage is unfathomable. Go to donkeylove.com - try to figure out which you are, David...the attention whore or the ignorant ass.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
@David: Our creator? Please don't force your dog onto me, I find that unbelievably offensive. Whatever you believe you can do so in the privacy of your own house, family, circle of friends, temple dwellers, etc, but don't bore me with that.
- Rene Wirtz
That's the great thing about this country. Idiots like you don't get to tell people like me how to think or what to say. If I want to thank G-d for making me a free man in a free country it is my G-d given right and there isn't a damn thing you can do to stop me. If you don't like it there are plenty of g-dless, radical, left-wing countries that would be happy to have you (or maybe not so happy). I hear liberals rave about Cuba. That's a place you might want to consider. ><
- pitlord
But, maybe you're right. Maybe, you aren't one of G-d's creations. In fact, it's more likely that you evolved from some accumulation of matter in the corner of a glue factory.
- pitlord
You absolutely have the right to believe what you choose. You do not have the right to encroach on others' rights just because they don't share those beliefs. And others have the right to mock you for your stupidity as much as they choose - because mocking is not telling you what to think. Creationism as you define it is a regurgitation of other, far older myths. So before you call anyone else an idiot, maybe you might want to consider that you're a case of de-evolution. Generally the result of inbreeding.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
How many Tea Party members were able to rally against Fed GOV because RETIRED receiving Social Security and Medicare? Hypoctes or just plain dumb?
- WarLord
*sniffs glue* Ah, I can see clearly now.
- Rene Wirtz
*LOL* @Denise. You are correct: if one claims to be dog's creation, one can only be if there was inbreeding. Or, otherwise, one member has peed outside the pot and everyone is contaminated with imperfection. Flawless logic. Then again, David doesn't strike me as the kind of person who can think logically. Frankly, I don't think he thinks at all, he's just a spambot.
- Rene Wirtz
You are obviously viewing the story of creation from a western cultural perspective. There is nothing "mythological" nor incestuous about G-d's creating the universe. But, I have more pressing matters than debating the origin of the universe with you. Like groceries.
- pitlord
The last thing Cuba needs is more people like that. I personally extend an invitation for them to come over here to Spain, which is still relatively open-border. Based solely on what I've read here, they'd really fit in well, among certain circles, over here. If my sofa-bed, and my other spare bed weren't already occupied by my good-for-nothing inlaws, I'd even let them stay with me. As...
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- midnightgolfer
Oh good, David, you have an internet lover! Why don't you guys meet in the middle?
- Rene Wirtz
@midnightgolfer: please stay in Spain, there's enough fringers in the US.
- Rene Wirtz
Oh the irony of misusing the word "fringe" Conservatism is a majority, and growing. A fringe is the small edge of something larger. But don't worry, I'll wait til you leave, or are made irrelevant. But just in case there's any confusion, I still vote every chance I get, both by absentee in the U.S. and every time it's legal for me to do so in Spain and Europe.
- midnightgolfer
What you're describing, midnightgolfer, is not conservatism in any true sense. Intelligent conservatism died a long time ago. What you're describing is neoconservatism, which is one of the most dangerous movements in this country - and if you're a part of it, then you will share your burden of blame in the undoing of your "claimed" party. Period. Wake up and smell the stupid. People like you are definitely trying to take this country back...to some place pre-WWI era.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
What exactly did I describe? other than to state that Dem's and "liberals" have all they need right now to pass any bill into law that they'd like, no matter what opposition would like? Oh, and to show displeasure at ad hominem attacks?
- midnightgolfer
*rolls eyes* "Conservatism is a majority and growing" is what you said specifically. That is patently false. Genuine conservatism still exists in some individuals, but as a "group" it is dead. What is growing is the teabaggers. That's all. Further, Dems & "liberals" are not synonymous - anymore than Reps and "conservatives". If you're American, then you wouldn't know what a real liberal was if one came up and slapped you across the face. It's nothing to do with party.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
This is why I put "liberal" in quotes, and you are mistaken, in the U.S. the percentage of individuals who self-identify as "Conservative" is a majority, and it is an increasing percentage.
- midnightgolfer
LOL - where do you get this from...? Faux News? Pffft. Oh, and the ad hominem is not directed at you, midnightgolfer. Besides, if we're using the terms "liberal" and "conservative" - from a distinct perspective (and you being in Europe should be aware of this), there is NO left in this country comparatively. But, and this is a BIG but, when we're talking about "self-identification", I...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
There most certainly is a Left in the U.S., albeit statistically small, even when compared to Europe's average left-to-right position. You ask, "Where do I get this from?" -- The recent Virginia and New Jersey election results - Pffft.
- midnightgolfer
The recent Virginia and NJ election results tell you what then? That people are pissed off at incumbents? No...the voices are telling you what you think you want to hear? No...that people are dissatisfied with Obama? What exactly...? Yesterday's results can be interpreted 101 different ways. The "left" here is still comparatively right-leaning when we're drawing comparisons over the pond, man. Am I correct in guessing you're either in the military or an American subcontractor in Spain?
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Okay, so you interpret it the way you wish, and I will interpret it the way I wish, and we'll both act on our own interpretations, and stop wasting time arguing about differences of opinion, and move forward. Thanks for the momentary fun.
- midnightgolfer
If my guess is correct, then you're surrounded by like-minded folks with whom you work...and it bubbles into a nice little echo chamber to what you want to interpret it. That's all. ;) And acting on interpretations simply means voting the way our respective consciences dictate -- which is perfectly fine, no matter how we disagree. Given the time there, let go of the momentary fun and get some rest. :)
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
To be totally honest, I work graveyard, and am on a break, that went a little long ;-) I truly wish you were right about being surrounded by like-minded folk. I am surrounded by overly-sensitive people I have to make a conscious effort not to offend with my opinions, and online is one of the only places I get to speak so openly, without immediate confrontation. Also, I'm better at defending myself in English than in Spanish.
- midnightgolfer
You said, "Again you make false claims that people are "dying and losing coverage" with absolutely nothing to support your claims" -- coming back to that thought since you actually are stupid enough to believe you "trounced" my arguments. The association between death and lack of health coverage is firmly established - and here is a very recent article about that-...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Wow, I'm flattered that you created a whole blog post for me. Too bad your just totally wrong. It's funny which part of the definitions for "monopoly" you chose to include in your little post. Here's the full definition from your first source: "A situation in which a single company owns all or nearly all of the market for a given type of product or service. This would happen in the case...
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- pitlord
Another note on lack of insurance, the studies you liberals cite to show that the "uninsured" are dying are completely false and based on fake numbers. http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/does-la...
- pitlord
Regardless of your personal opinions about insurance, the government does not have the authority to force us to purchase health insurance. http://www.cnsnews.com/news...
- pitlord
But let me highlight a few of your more intelligent comments: "You like that because you're a "proud American" and are too stupid to realize that their methodology operates AGAINST free market (capitalistic) principles." Denise Wirtz "Good enough for you, asshole?" Denise Wirtz "Every one of the people defending their behavior, as far as I'm concerned, is a walking, breathing,...
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- pitlord
*laughing merrily* Leave it to a moron like you to mix and match two different blog entries to try to justify yourself without actually addressing any of the issues of either directly. "Run Forest Run" seems to be typical of you. You got *one* thing right, though...where you just said "...did NOT prevent the patient from obtaining the procedure." Nothing stopped those patients from...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
I'm glad you can come up with such creative names for me, "moron" is sooooo original. Obviously you didn't bother to look at the links I posted which debunk your facetious claims that anybody is dying from "underinsurance." Where are all the starving Americans who've been thrown to the gutter because they couldn't afford a medical procedure? I'm sure your employers and their clients are...
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- pitlord
You're not worthy of "creative" names, David. Moron will do just fine. And you have a VERY short memory. I provided you with a link AGES ago regarding a first-hand account -- but since you've seen fit to pretend that I never gave you that info, here you go. Again. http://www.progressivefox.com/... Golly, I guess the lady in there who is referring to the methods that doctors and...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
I've tolerated you for about as long as I care to. You & I will never have a reasonable discussion, though not for my lack of trying to. You're not worth anyone's attempt at reasonable discussion...and I am just finished with you. You are...as of this post...blocked. You're too stupid to realize what a fucking tool you are, and I don't have the patience to deal with your ignorance on a...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
David C Cooper (aka pitlord): do yourself a favor and emigrate to Isreal, preferrably Jerusalem, inner city, you fucking shameless piece of shit excuse for a human being. You are the prime example of why both abortion is a really good idea. In fact, your father should have shot his load on the radiator, so at least everything would have ended with a sizzle-pop. You try to backstab your...
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- Rene Wirtz
If you are willing to throw them away then you don't deserve the freedoms and liberties that this country has to offer. Why would you want to stay unless you just want to destroy it? I'll just say that your link does nothing to support your case for public health care. It is clear to anyone paying attention that Obamacare would result in the same exact situation with government...
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- pitlord
Another brilliant argument from Rene Wirtz! Your wife's debate tactics are severely lacking in credibility thanks to her emotional responses and ad hominem attacks. Funny, the same can be said of her husband. LOL and you two call me a moron? >.>
- pitlord
Because you are one. It's plain for everyone to see. And your debate tacticsare overshadowed by my wife's, thank you very much, but again, you won't know a good debate if it kicked you in the head. Now kindly go fuck yourself!
- Rene Wirtz
Besides, I don't mind being wrong, I am wrong quite often and I have no compunction about saying so, You on the other hand, are holier than the pope, claiming to have dog, thus the truth by your side. This makes you an ignorant fool, a waste of space. And it is scared, petty, small-minded people like you who are destroying the US, not the other way around. But I guess, since you are a...
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- Rene Wirtz
Oh, and blocked. Enjoy life in hell.
- Rene Wirtz
LOL
- pitlord
IHealth Care is broken badly the for profit model is unsustainable at any price but it don't matter we'll all be on Medicare in 5 years or less...
- WarLord
Vaccines on horizon for AIDS, Alzheimer's, herpes - http://www.breitbart.com/article...
What's going to happen to all of these amazing technological advances in medicine when Obama's government eliminates the profit? #nobamacare #defeatobamacare
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Nothing, you fool. Health care research has zero to do with health insurance reform. Do you know where most medical breakthroughs have originated? Canada, France, UK, countries with UHC.
- Rene Wirtz
Wrong, most medical break throughs have resulted from private companies developing medicine and technology for profit.
- pitlord
Improper US Government Payments Hit $98 Billion - Politics and Government * US * News * Story - CNBC.com - http://www.cnbc.com/id...
Maxamad liked this
And Obama's plans to give us MORE government run healthcare?!?!?! #defeatobamacare #nobamacare
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE FOR ALL!
- Mark Layton
PAID FOR BY EVERYONE ELSE!
- Spencer
Spencer -- where does your state rank in quality of health care?
- Sean McBride
Doesn't matter. Government has no business in healthcare, and they certainly would never improve the quality if they did.
- Spencer
Spencer -- in other words, your state ranks very low in the quality of healthcare and education, right? Correct me if I am wrong.
- Sean McBride
It is correct. The government education system is ranked very low. ;)
- Spencer
And it's still probably better than England or Canada.
- pitlord
It's about priorities. We have all the money we need to blow up other people to advance the interests of large corporation. No one mentions deficits THEN. But HOLY SHIT...spend money to provide healthcare to all, or to feed poor children, or to improve infrastructure and HOLY FUCK WE'RE GOIN' BROKE!!
- Mark Layton
It's about common sense. Don't expect to get different results from the same experiment. Medicare and Medicaid are already a disaster that we can't afford. At least what we did in Iraq made the world a better place. Obamacare would help bring down the single biggest defender of personal freedom and liberty in the world. If you hate your liberties so much, there are plenty of socialist tyrannies that are happy to provide you with healthcare around the world. Why don't you move?
- pitlord
why is this surprising news ? it is the incompetent, crooked government!
- Mekkar
The U.S. Universal Health Care system & another step in the institution of the One World Government plan
- Mekkar
Big Government » Blog Archive » Finally, A Congressman With a Solution: Stop Complaining So Much - http://biggovernment.com/2009...
Is this the kind of legislation the left-wing thinks is important or even relevant right now? Really? #nobamacare #defeatobamacare
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
FT.com / US / Politics & Foreign policy - Abortion clause raises problems for Obama - http://www.ft.com/cms...
Call your senators and tell them to vote NO on Obama's Abortion Bill #nobamacare #defeatobamacare
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Or YES.
- Mark Layton
Improper US Government Payments Hit $98 Billion - Politics and Government * US * News * Story - CNBC.com - http://www.cnbc.com/id...
The Weekly Standard Pelosi Breaks Pledge to Publish Bill Online for 72 Hours Before Vote #killbill - http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs...
Brian, Spencer and Craig Eddy liked this
Wow, even MORE broken promises from the radical left. Surprised? Not really. >.>
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
The Weekly Standard - http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs...
Republican Leader Boehner | Speaker Pelosi’s Government-Run Health Plan Will Require a Monthly Abortion Premium #killbill We Stand Together - http://republicanleader.house.gov/blog...
Why so serious?
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Abortion is not health care.
- Craig Eddy
If you do not want an abortion, then don't have one. This is your choice. If someone else wants or needs an abortion, who the fuck are you to tell them no?!
- Rene Wirtz
They can do whatever they want as long as they pay for it themselves.
- pitlord
Hey David, newsflash: I don't like any of your views or opinions, but I still pay for your health care. I don't like you using our education system or our roads, but I still pay taxes so you can use them. Suck it up, deal with it. Otherwise I suggest you move to a country where your opinions and religious views are not impeded on. KTHXBYE!
- Rene Wirtz
That's one of the many differences between us, Rene. I don't mind paying taxes for health care roads, or public schools that are being used by people with whom I disagree. Abortions are not roads, they are not education and abortions certainly are NOT healthcare.
- pitlord
Then I suggest you try to pass a law where the individual can attribute the taxes he pays to only those communal things he wants to, problem solved.
- Rene Wirtz
Oh, and guess what. I already live in a country where my G-d given rights are recognized and sanctified. If you don't like my country then you're welcome to find one that suits your radical Marxist ideals and GTFO.
- pitlord
No. I'd rather you go. It will make the US a much better place :-)
- Rene Wirtz
Pitlord - If a woman will die without the abortion, would you still say it isn't healthcare? If she has a dead fetus inside of her, would you force her to continue carrying it because you don't consider the abortion healthcare?
- Katy S
@Katy: David will not see that has health care, but as god's will ...
- Rene Wirtz
Katy, nobody is suggesting that abortions be banned. Of course, I support abortion to save the life of the mother. I do not support paying for abortions with our hard earned money.
- pitlord
Rene, speak for yourself.
- pitlord
Karl Rove: Tuesday's Suburban Vote Swing - WSJ.com #killbill We Stand Together - http://online.wsj.com/article...
More on Pelosi's delusion (but don't tell her).
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
The Madness of Queen Nancy - WSJ.com #killbill We Stand Together - http://online.wsj.com/article...
Craig Eddy liked this
All hail queen Nancy! LOL ^^
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
"More than a few Democrats in Congress are perplexed and worried that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is insisting on ramming through a 1,900-page health care bill on Saturday"
- Craig Eddy
Democrats' Plan to Help 'Uninsurables' Requires 6-Month Wait - FOXNews.com #killbill We Stand Together - http://www.foxnews.com/politic...
Hope and change? Maybe later. >.>
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
Kill The Bill!
- Craig Eddy
In the Republican farce of a health bill plan it either never happens or takes much longer. The current situation leaves them uninsured. Kill bill? Pathetic losers!
- Rene Wirtz
11 Uncovered Videos Show School Children Performing Praises to Obama #killbill - http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolt...
Is this really the best use of our public school dollars?
- pitlord
from Bookmarklet
given the source, my first reaction is extreme skepticism as to its veracity.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
How can you be skeptical of video? It's video!
- pitlord
You are such a hypocrit! Every video that shows faux pas by anyone in the Republican camp you dismiss as staged, but every video the fringe puts out you believe to be fact. You are either incredibly stupid, incredibly gullible, incredible misinformed or incredibly uneducated ... I think it's all of them.
- Rene Wirtz
What video did I dismiss?
- pitlord
Nah, Rene, he's just bought into what he wants to believe. Every presidency has had some version of this. It was perfectly okay when it was a president he liked. *shrug*
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
The Energizer Health Care Bill ....it keeps growingand gro and growing and growing..... 11/4/2009 - squareonemedia on Blog Talk Radio #killbill - http://www.blogtalkradio.com/squareo...
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