I can tell that there are people on both sides and a lot of people are probably laying low on this. It's going to be a very divisive story. - Shawn Farner

I'm fist pumping over this. The guy is a hack. I'm not surprised he got dropped over controversial material as opposed to the reason he should have never been picked up in the first place: talentless material. - Michael Beck

Anyone else finding it interesting that most of the people on the other side are white men? I predict this is going to get bigger before it goes away. - Cyndy

Smart people don't comment or get involved in any way. - Aaron Brazell

Excellent summary and response - Shey

its easy to run around and comment on tech stuff, but it takes a real heart and intelligence to understand and comment on this issue...i sent this to one of top dogs and he was quiet....probably too afraid of them making a puppet of him. - Pokai

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised at all so many came/will come to his defense. Let's see how many show their true colors as this debate continues. - Bwana McCall

And they defend him no matter what and whenever. I made a spoof video of Feldman on YouTube and one of his "friends" was quick to jump on it in the comments. http://youtube.com/watch?v=vi3... - Michael Beck

Pokai: It has nothing to do with puppets. It has to do with the fact that this is a legal issue and commenting on a problem none of us created or can solve only inserts you into the middle of a legal issue. Smart people don't comment. - Aaron Brazell

The part that surprises me is that Verizon cut a deal with him in the first place. Corporations are notoriously risk-averse, and would probably think twice even before agreeing to a video series with Jerry Seinfeld. For the record, I haven't seen "Tech Nigga," but I saw some of the Shel Israel stuff and the video in which images of Robert Scoble's face obscured a woman's nipples. Wonder if Verizon was planning to air that one. - Ontario Emperor

Ontario; at least in television and radio, programming is always done by middle managers, not executives or lawyers. It's very likely that the people who could've clued Verizon into the issues relating to Feldman's work weren't involved, at all, in any programming decisions until after it was raised by third parties. It's very much driven by "I need x amount of programming by y date:" very rarely are things background checked. - Mark Trapp

<sarcasm>Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy... </sarcasm> I think I'll buy a couple more services from Verizon to celebrate their decision. - Sprague D

SHEL: "Mike, for you to imply I somehow, in the back channel, incited a black Muslim organization to persuade a telephony carrier to take down Loren’s material shows a very weird assumption of what I can or would do." [sock puppet turns to camera] SOCK PUPPET: "FASCINATING! Maybe Loren can replace the Verizon sponsorship with one from... (wait for it...) S... A... P! Bringing you "comedy" that beats you over the head with a 2x4, since 1938!" - Karim

See, according to Loren, the problem isn't that white people are racist, it's that black people are self-hating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... "It has *nothing* to do with the white guy." - Karim

Aaron, can you please explain to me how "smart people don't comment" on this because it's some kind of "legal issue?" Why are you encouraging people to stick their heads in the sand on this issue? - Karim

Really? People care? - Adam via twhirl

That's a fantastic blog post. And the best thing I've read so far on this. I love the coercive apologists and transparent attempts to trivialize the matter. Intelligent people have *already* weighed in - and will continue to do so, regardless of lickspittle internet bullies and their bigot pals. I was bullied as the poor kid in school. I can smell them a million miles away. They're cowards and they're all about silencing those who defy them. Let's call them for what they are. Go back to stealing lunch money - melmcbride

While I agree with the author's suggestions I don't like being told what to do. The author should have adopted a more personal point of view. - Kevin D. White

oh no -- i guess this was inevitable *shakes head* - Shey

Am with you @kevin As Hutch's post shows there are many different motivations and goals for FF users - that's what is great about it - if I want to follow 1000+ people and you want to follow 10 FF's answer to both of us is yes - Marco

I simply don't use Ping.FM. Anyone who wants to see all my output can follow my Friendfeed. - Morton Fox

*shakes head too*! augh! NOooooooooezzzzzz! - Susan Beebe

There's another issue that the article leaves out: You can set up your FriendFeed to ONLY pull your Twitters (and not your Plurks, etc). In other words, you can set up your network the other way as well. I cast my posts from Ping.fm to Twitter, Plurk, and Identi.ca, but only pull Twitters into FF, which is my favorite place to have conversations. - Lisa Creech Bledsoe via twhirl

Another way around this is that one could relate items that link to the same content together. That way the conversaton does not get fragmented and everyone is happy. The notion that duplicate entries are bad etiquette depends on where the duplicates are from and whether it is intentional. One can always hide duplicate entries, after all. - Roberto Bonini

Morton - me too! Ping.FM seems to be designed for the person who is exactly the opposite of me. The person who has groups of friends in a number of places, but doesn't want those people to mix. Me on the other hand.. find me here. Find me on my blog. - J. Phil

I agree w/ @mortonfox and @eng1ne. While I support the idea and adoption of alternative ways to update your status IMHO most users are incorrectly using Pingfm. - Czar Derek Peterman

My top 10 includes 4 women....Veronica, Ana, Nianine, Rachel Fisher...I always find women more interesting. - Pokai

A new "A-List"? - Rex Hammock

Pokey - Edythe is highly recommended. - Russellreno

silpol - You made wise decision when you subscribed to me. lol - Russellreno

Winston, I hear profiles for FF members is in the works, no eta at this time. - Mike Fruchter

FF profiles would be absolutely stellar. - Nathaniel Payne

Nathaniel -- not much, but better than nothing: http://userscripts.org/scripts... - J. Phil

@nate sure would. In the meantime, http://userscripts.org/scripts... - Hao Chen

if this is not a fake i have a question: what happened to the jet ski? - ouriel

That is soooooo awesome! - Michael Narciso

Ouriel: the jet skis usually go to a place where the waves aren't breaking. When you visit Half Moon Bay I'll take you out to Mavericks so you can understand this. - Robert Scoble

That is just amazing. - Dennis Jackson

This is real. Lookup tow-in surfing. You're right Scoble, Mavericks is a world-class break for tow-in. I wish I lived in Cali so I could get out there!! - Granteezy

Sorry, It's not Mavericks...It is break in Hawaii called Jaws. Won the XXL Big Wave Award...I believe over 60 ft wave. And believe me, it is real. Here is Billabong site w/ more footage from places like Cortes Bank, CA (middle of Ocean where ocean floor comes up), Ghost Trees, CA (Northern CA), Jaws, Hawaii. and Teahpoo,Tahiti http://www.billabongxxl.com/ma... - Pokai

@Pokai - Jaws is sick. If anyone is looking for more "biggest wave on Earth" surf action, check out Billabong - Odyssey - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt03... - Granteezy

Check out the video called "Step into Liquid" if you want to learn more about tow surfing, where it is done and the people who do it. - Jeff P. Henderson

whoa, that's like 3 or 4 storeys of water coming down! - Shannon Low via twhirl

they call heavy wipeouts...being "rag-dolled" - Pokai

Good question. Personally I don't think they're mutually exclusive, but if you like something and comment to the same effect it's a tad redundant. - Jonathon

I use them exactly like Robert. I use a like when it's something worthy of sharing and keeping. I know my friends will see it and I can come back to it later. I comment when I think I have something witty or valuable to say. Though, I don't think that this comment necessarily fits that criteria... - Eiwe Lingefors

sometimes I "like" something and as the conversation develops, I find something valid to "comment." - Aura Mae

I like Robert's guidelines. What about other people? - Hao Chen

Scoble was spot on here. - Yuvi

it is not guidelines, it is common sense. ;) but for example, I rather comment on this item than I would like it as I want to take part in the conversation. Compare it:do you rather social bookmark a blog entry or comment on it? - Nicole Simon

That's how I tend to use them as well. - Andrew Kraut

I use the "like" like an internal bookmark. Kind of like how Twitter has the star favorite thing. Usually for neet links or free apps. - Outsanity

i agree with Scoble - Justin

I often comment, like, then hide ugh.. - adolfo foronda

i only comment if i feel that it will add something to the conversation; i like lots of things, even conversations i comment on - Nathan Eckenrode

I like Aura Mae's explanation. Maybe instead of a like, it should be more of a "insipired!". - Franklin Naval

Why not? - Mona N

Like不一定非要Comment，反过来一样。 - Chris Qie

What Scoble said at the top. - Adam Turetzky

I assume that at one point they'll diverge the two more, so if I like it then I Like it, if I have a comment, then I Comment. They're not mutually exclusive to me. - xero

xero: they totally are exclusive. You gotta click on the "me" tab and then click on the links over on the left. I can see your comments separately from your likes, or I can see them both mixed together. - Robert Scoble

I follow the Scobleism, on this one. I comment on many more than I "like", but I don't always comment on everything that I like. - Spinn

So many people put SO much thought into this.. who cares! - Mona N

Mona: the system cares. :-) - Robert Scoble

I've been known to like a piece of media, see it rise to the top of my stream several times and then comment as the conversation grows - Julian Baldwin

@Robert - That comment reminds me of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... - Spinn

depends how much you want to say, i guess - Pete Delucchi

I think that Likes are for times that you really don't have anything to add to the conversation, like a comment, but you do find the article interesting and you want to share it with people. Some times you really just don't have a comment to put up that isn't spam like "Interesting...." - Chacha

Robert: The system.... lol Why am I picturing a flowgram right now with you as the center and everyone's branching off of you haha - Mona N

why the hell not? - Noah David Simon

Mona: you were close. Actually Louis Gray is in the center. I'm just a big branch off of him. - Robert Scoble

Robert, I think it's about time I googled you. I know you're like THE MAN on FF but I still don't understand why haha. I'll make sure to Google this Louis person too.... - Mona N

I have nothing to say. - Michael Narciso

Mona: Google knows all. :-) - Robert Scoble

WHOA You have your own wiki entry LOL.. - Mona N

Good luck, Mona. If you don't like what you find, Robert and I will have a word with those Google people. - Louis Gray

i do what robert said...but if it is really important, i comment first, then a couple hours later i will like to bring it back up into the FF consciousness. - Pokai

I do one or the other or both. It just depends. I might like something, but not comment. Or I might comment, but not like it. And then there are the times when I like something and want to comment on it. It all just depends. - Jason Shultz via twhirl

+1 for Strategic liking. Nice. - Hao Chen

I guess people use the 'like' when they agreee but dont necessarily have much to add to the post - Jassim

Mona no, there is no thought put into it at all. That is just how you start adapting in these systems to find something you work best - and some things happen do be done similar by a lot of people. It was more work to write it down. Like grammar. You learned that once and while it is problematic to explain, you just use it naturally. - Nicole Simon

I don't think you will run out of Likes, so it's not a wasting really. Also, if I comment on something it's not neccessarily true that I like it. I used to comment on politicians but I don't like them :) - Roland Hesz

edythe just ran out of likes the other night. Then she had to add a comment saying, [Like]. Not sure what the limit is, but there is one. Just sayin'. - Lisa L. Seifert

Sometimes your FF comment inside "Show...more comments":) :( - Igor Poltavskiy

Yep! Comment when you want to participate in the conversation. Like if you want to have other folks read it (or bookmark it). - Susan Beebe

I use the "like" to feed them into google reader and share them there as well. - tomit

wow OE, way to sneak in there - Shey

Heck, I'd ask for more followers (I would probably be about 500th or lower), but then Scoble would block me ;) - Vince DeGeorge

I am reported as having 662 but FF tells me I have 952. Seems like a higher than normal margin. If I understand it, those folks are either private or lurkers? - Sacca

wow I made a list (181) - Steven Hodson

Dan Farber > Kevin Rose. Go Dan! - Sprague D

Nuts that I made this list ... good stuff :) - Nick O'Neill

a nice list of enemies that must be destroyed. :) just kidding "I'm not here to make friends!" - Marshall Kirkpatrick

@Sacca, the author's said that they can only crawl active accounts that have published activity. There are likely _a ton_ of accounts that were created, following you for example, that weren't picked up due to inactivity. Mine was off by 25-30% as well. And if you think about it... even the most popular activities here just graze 100 likes or comments, not 2000, so there are a lot of people who don't participate. - Louis Gray

I'm with Chris, I'm being underreported, private ones? - MG Siegler

I have 63. I thought I would have made the list. - Rob Williams

ahh just saw your comment louis, thx - MG Siegler

This should be fun to explore new users. - Mark Krynsky

Darn, just missed. 5 minutes late, that should be my motto. - J. Phil

it's pretty interesting to me, actually, that for being as tiny, tech focused and A-list driven as people say FF is - nobody's got more than 20% of users following them and only 7 people have more than 7% of users following them. That makes me think things are more diverse around here than I thought. No? - Marshall Kirkpatrick

@Marshall The truth is, small blogs have a bigger voice here than any other social service. - Shey

#70, http://friendfeed.com/quixotic, "has not broadcast any events yet"...what's with that? Deleted all the services maybe? - Craig Eddy

damn 100 away from making the list - Fred Grott

a-lists are for suckas. and playboys. ;) - kris krug

Quality > Quantity. - Sprague D

@kriskrug then I must be a Sucka Playboy! Dont get how I could've make this list, but its a nice bday surpise anyway. - Schlomo Rabinowitz

Looking at a graph of the top 50 users, the Default Nine effect isn't all that pronounced. The distribution of users looks pretty much like the sort of thing you get when you do any graph of this sort (i.e. a classic long tail) http://kshep.posterous.com/gra... - Ken Sheppardson

i'm yearning for the day that the top 5 are non-techies...that will be a great day for Friendfeed! - Pokai

I especiallylike Pokai's comment—I'll be happiest when the top users are diverse people, not just "techies." - Cathryn Hrudicka

Pokai....I don't think that is even possible. - Rahsheen Porter

+1 Like for Ontario Emperor making it in - Hutch Carpenter

The list reports my followers at 255, FF shows me closer to 355, but still cool to be on the list at 209 even if I feel I'm not as active on FF as many, many others, guess I'm still relatively active... - Shannon Clark

Seriously humbled :) - Charlie Anzman

If my stats were reported correctly, I would appear in the top 100 - woo hoo!! - Susan Beebe

If they published a list of the top 75,000, I'd totally make it. ;) - Wes Justice

Alas, I've not hit the top 250... ;-) - Mark Dykeman

side effect of asking lots of tough questions, you start to get some answers that make sense. - Nathan Eckenrode

As a fellow geek we better be sure we're right, because if we are wrong it's gonna be bad. - Blackopsmanners

Blackopsmanners: my idea of hell is being forced to sit next to Jesse Helms for eternity. Of course HIS idea of hell is probably sitting next to me. So, who is in hell? - Robert Scoble

Geeks are generally tech freaks and when you see item after item made by man changing the way your life is lived then it becomes pretty easy to accept that man invented god not the other way around. - Jeff Jones

Geeks are more educated and the more education a person has, the more likely they are to look at our world logically, and choose atheism. - Granteezy via fftogo

I think it has a lot to do with rarely humbling oneself enough to admit that they don't, "know it all" or "have all the answers". It's generally about humility, which geeks tend to have very little of. - Trevor Carpenter

I cannot disagree more Trevor. Atheists are the ones saying "we don't have all the answers". Deity based religions certainly claim to do so. - Jeff Jones

Trevor: Jeff is right. I used to be very religious. I found that most of the people who were religious were not humble at all and weren't able to look at the world without having any answers. Our minds are very strong pattern recognizers. It takes a lot of humility to turn off the pattern recognizer and just accept you don't have the answers. But, this is why I call myself an agnostic. I'm not certain there is not a God. Just like I'm not certain there is one, either. - Robert Scoble

To Jeff and Robert. I certainly can understand what you are saying. However, I separate out the religious from the genuine Christian. The majority of the "religious", including many who clam Christianity, are far from humble. They are generally far from God too. I would not say that those who are legitamately close to God claim to to know it all. In fact, they would say that God knows it all, and we can't know it all. My statement about geeks not being humble is more poking fun than anything else. - Trevor Carpenter

I'm a card-carrying member of a deity based religion as Jeff calls it. Christian is what I am and I certainly don't claim to have all the answers. In fact, I have very few. That's why I need/desire the deity. Right? Sadly, there is an unfortunate number of folks on both (many?) sides of this argument who give their own group a bad rap. I'm just trying to not be one of them. The way I see it, God is the one who created the patterns we're recognizing so I'll accept that He has the answers I need. - Lisa L. Seifert

Trevor: I was in a church of people all of whom considered themselves as "genuine Christian." Part of the problem is that religious people assume they really know what makes someone a "real believer." - Robert Scoble

Thank you, Lisa. - Trevor Carpenter

Lisa: the thing is, anyone who professes to "believe" has already put something in their pattern recognizer that simply isn't there. Or, have you really seen God? But I'm going to beg out of this. I learned in the 1990s that these conversations never convince anyone and just piss people off. So, "Hide" is earned, have fun. - Robert Scoble

Robert. Sure, I know what you're saying. No belief system is worth anything if it in fact doesn't claim to be the "right" way. Without taking this too far...I'm coming from a traditionally reformed, Bible believing worldview. All that to say, Lisa is right. Even those on my team have harmed your view of true Christianity. - Trevor Carpenter

just think of a computer software program that has a certain set of rules....if then statements, etc....then think of DNA and explain...then who set the rules? randomly appeared? - Pokai

You're welcome, Trevor. (For what?) Robert: I'm sad that you're hiding the conversation. Nobody's pissed off. (Yet??) And I'm certainly not reading that anyone is trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm simply seeing different opinions here. And I like that. As far as seeing God: not in the way I'm assuming you mean. But I see the God-Effect everywhere, not to be confused with the Scoble Effect. ;-) Ocean, Wind, my own body-muscles, bones, blood, organs, blah, blah, blah. Standard argument. :-) - Lisa L. Seifert

I'm with Scoble on this one, hide earned! - Granteezy

thanks lisa, I think we should whip Scoble into the posted 60 foot monster wave (by Mitchell Tsai) and see what happens to his belief system....then he can tell us what happened to George Carlin :) - Pokai

Because few deities are open source. - Craig Thomler

I am of the view that historically and currently that Established Religions are a cause of a lot of Evil in the world and that has always been a major switch off for me about any Church. - David W

pokai, i know you ended with a set of rhetorical questions but what i'm inferring from your tone is that you're drawing a tangent that can't be supported. no one necessarily had to set rules for DNA for them to assemble randomly based upon thermodynamic stability. and then for them to interact with other molecules... - Kambiz Kamrani

because they don't like the fact that there is something they cannot explain? or maybe because they don't like the fact that there is something that is (could be) controlling them? - Timo Zimmermann via twhirl

@ Robert, I think it's unfair to paint whole groups of people as one things or another: muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, et. al which is probably what bothers me most about these discussions. Not the facts of what's right or wrong, but rather the debate normally centers around painting a wide brush across an over-generalized groups of people. see "why are geeks often atheist?" I know a lot of smart people who believe a lot of different things ... - David Adewumi

I think the questions of humility/uncertainty vs. "we know whats best" views of religion can correspond well to the tech world...there are entrepreneurs looking for what has been the missing, the algebraic X, the unknown that hasnt been built yet or thought of (think of major advances like RSS or SNs a la twitter or friend feed...and then there was the aol way of thinking where they thought they could comprehend entirely the social aspects of the web in a closed platform...geek doesnt always = athiest - joshuabacker

One reason the I am turned off by religion is that each one tends to believe that their version is the only version. Some even to the point of professing to kill others that do not believe the way they do. There is very little tolerance of other points of view. Most Christian religions profess tolerance of others and I'm sure their are some groups that do practice this, but I find significant hypocrisy with most religious institutions between what they preach and how the really act. - Jeff P. Henderson

ok kambiz, interesting, but what makes the same genetic material become a frog, dog or human? - Pokai

@Pokai, Mutation. - Jeff P. Henderson

Lisa, I was simply thankful for your comments. They were spot on. - Trevor Carpenter

I really loved this part of the article:The absence of proof does not mean there is no proof at all; but it does give a strong reason to doubt if there is any. Geeks have conditioned themselves to think logically, just as the religious have been conditioned to replace logic with trust in what they are told. What can be extracted from this is that geeks are not atheists simply because they may know "more" but also because they choose to think differently (whether or not they think superiorly is a question for another debate). - Lisa L. Seifert

I agree david. I wonder why intelligence is their defense. - Pokai

pokai, Jeff nails it. but let me clarify one thing -- the same genetic material doesn't necessarily exist in a frog, dog, or human. a frog has a different genome (set of genes) from a dog and a human. these different genes arose through mutations during various biological processes like DNA replication, and gamete production. they are continually evolving by way of natural selection. the frog, dog, human, share a common vertebrate ancestor but they all have diverged from that point into separate species. - Kambiz Kamrani

Continued from previous post: I liked that part for the reminder to keep thinking. I don't ever want to be conditioned to think one thing only whether I'm wearing my Christian hat, my geek hat, my caretaker hat, etc. I don't think we can generalize either way. I agree with David - and with Jeff regarding hypocrisy. It's one reason I hesitate to enter into discussion of beliefs. I know I'm being lumped right now by some of you; but I'd rather try to state my own point of view than sit back and be lumped. - Lisa L. Seifert

I unhid this for a second just to see what direction it went in. I'm hiding again. Some things haven't changed in 10 years, I see. Sigh. See, I used to participate in every religious thread in Visual Basic Programmer's Journal's CompuServe forum (after moving them to that magazine's "OffRamp" which is where we moved stuff that went off topic). The conversations always degenerated just like this one has into calling the other side names. No one ever learns anything. So, Lisa, sorry. I'm getting older I guess - Robert Scoble

than you kamrani and jeff for your clarification, - Pokai

Bye, Robert... Does this mean you won't come to the parties I host at the Ritz once I move to HMB?? ;-) I'm sure I'll get the chance to discuss greater issues such as religion with you at some time when there will be no name-calling. :-) - Lisa L. Seifert

i think scoble just faked hiding, but he is still reading...funny how scoble made the first comment on this post... - Pokai

Oh, no. Do not doubt. Scoble is THE hider. :-) Eventually, he may look back, but he is the best of the hiders. I hide because he has inspired me to do so... Seriously. I always forget about it until he evangelizes it. Then I hide again. - Lisa L. Seifert

@Jeff "One reason the I am turned off by religion is that each one tends to believe that their version is the only version. Some even to the point of professing to kill others that do not believe the way they do." Now replace 'religion' with (culture, style of government, monetary system, nation, state, language, et. al) and you will see this is not an effective argument. See current war in Iraq/Afghanistan for an example. Is that really about religion? - David Adewumi

Up to this point, I can't find one person, on either side of the discussion calling anyone a name. Where are the name-callers? (excluding Lisa's, "Scoble is THE hider.") - Trevor Carpenter

This is a misconception - Alan Wilensky via twhirl

wow, I step away for a night, and look what I miss! - Andrew Badera

FWIW, I was born, christened, raised Roman Catholic. I was even an altar boy, but that was mostly due to the boredom I experienced, sitting in the pews. I don't claim to have all the answers -- I lean more towards labeling myself an agnost than atheist these days -- but I know, quite for certain, that organized religions don't have it any more right than I do. - Andrew Badera

Nobel physics Stephen Hawking: No need the God model - Igor Poltavskiy

Creators of religions (or any influential belief system) are interesting (perhaps as much for their pathologies as anything else). Followers of belief systems created by others are not interesting, at least in that aspect of their lives that is organized around a script that they didn't create. They are sleep walkers. - Sean McBride

First, not all deity-based religions claim to be the right and only way. In fact, Judaism is based on the idea that it is right for Jews and probably not right for anyone else. It's partially because of this sense of exclusivity that probably fuels Antisemitism. Also, when a lot of people say 'religion', they usually mean just Christianity because it's all they know. It's unfair to other religions to be so blindly grouped. - Akiva Moskovitz

I was raised in a Christian household and definitely see HUGE problems with Religion and the "Church" at large. In fact, I am so bothered, I stopped going to church as a result and am routinely offended by the all non-sense/crap espoused by religious groups and church organizations. I believe God exists. I have no unbelief in this regard as I have personally experienced some wonderful spiritual events (2 miracles in fact - 1 documented by dental x-rays). I see tons of fallacies with religion - very sad. - Susan Beebe

Akiva - ethnic nationalist ideologies -- particularly messianic ethnic nationalist ideologies -- are by definition exclusionary, polarizing and a trigger of violent conflict with ethnic outsiders. Universalist religions like Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are largely attempts to overcome the problems and limitations of ethnic nationalism. - Sean McBride

On my good days I'm an agnostic, my bad days an atheist. On the whole all religions try to describe the same thing, make sense of our world and how we should conduct ourselves. I remember being at my Grandmother's funeral (Catholic) and thinking that the words (return to Christ etc) were so comforting ... and it was then that I thought they were wrong. Those words are designed to be comforting and that was by human design IMO. Seek god in your own way and live accordingly - see Stranger in a Strange Land. - AJ Kohn

Where do you get those statistics that geeks are typically athiest? Faith takes courage and conviction. I am a Christian as are many of the riders I know. - Dave Ploch

Sean, last I checked, 'universalism' isn't achieved by oppression, forced conversions, or the outright murdering of people of differing beliefs. Furthermore, Buddhism shouldn't be grouped with Islam and Christianity because Buddhism isn't a proselytizing religion. In fact, I would say that Buddhism and Judaism are more universalist than Christianity and Islam for this very reason. They say, 'You do your thing and we'll do ours.' Not, 'You do our thing or we're coming after you.' - Akiva Moskovitz

Faith mentality: don't question me, don't challenge me, believe and do what I say. Hacker mentality: question everything, challenge everything. Guess which mindset produces the more interesting creative work. - Sean McBride

Akiva: Judaism (especially in its Zionist mode) is an ethnic nationalist ideology or cult organized around the interests of a particular ethnic group. Ethnic nationalism is the direct antithesis of universalism. Buddhism bears little meaningful resemblance to Judaism or religious Zionism. Christianity and Islam have committed many crimes over the ages, that is true. Aggressive fanaticism and intolerance seem to be central features of nearly all monotheistic/Abrahamic cults. - Sean McBride

I don't want to seem ignorant or prejudiced, but is Judaism not highly non-universalist? Laws against marrying non-Jews etc. - Alexander Carlill

Alexander, the best way I can put it is how a Rabbi once put it to me: 'It's better to be a righteous non-Jew than to be a non-righteous Jew.' In other words, Judaism prefers people to follow a different religion that is better suited to them rather than be forced to become Jewish. To me, that's more universal. Live and let live. - Akiva Moskovitz

Sean, and there it is. I'm ringing the bell. - Akiva Moskovitz

Alexander: Judaism is intensely ethnocentric at the core, but various currents in the Jewish tradition have tried to move in a more universalist direction -- Reform Judaism, Reconstructionist Judaism, secular Jewish movements (how about Einstein?), etc. Notice how much of the Old Testament revolves around wars between "Israel" and other ethnic/nationalist groups ("the nations") -- it's the dominant motif of much of the Bible. - Sean McBride

Akiva: I see. I'm going to stick with atheism for the foreseeable future, but I think I'm relatively righteous... Thanks for the info. - Alexander Carlill

Alexander, oops, yep. I should've written 'a different religion, agnosticism, or atheism.' I did not in any way mean to imply that only religious people can be righteous. The two, sadly, are sometimes mutually exclusive which is something Judaism seeks to avoid. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva -- to which branch of Judaism are you referring? Some factions are incredibly intolerant; others are the soul of tolerance. Some of Israel's chief rabbis have made public statements that are extremely intolerant towards various ethnic and religious groups (including towards other Jewish religious factions). One finds the same problems in the Christian and Muslims worlds -- fundamentalist voices of intolerance often drown out more reasonable voices. See, for instance, John Hagee on Roman Catholicism. - Sean McBride

Sean, how about not hijacking this post to yet again aggressively espouse your opinions on Judaism (and Israel)? - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva -- has the discussion suddenly become too sensitive for you in some way? You sound like you'd like to censor it. Let me ask again: which branch of Judaism are you referring to here? Orthodox? Conservative? Reform? Reconstructionist? Seems like a perfectly reasonable question. Also, a great deal of Christian fundamentalism in America revolves around Israel, does it not? Bush reportedly started a disastrous war in Iraq largely because of his religious beliefs. Iran may be next. - Sean McBride

Sean, it's very clear that you have a bone to pick and you can chase me around FriendFeed until your Keds fall apart but I am not going to feed your hunger. Thus, reasonable or not, I am not answering your questions. You seem only to be interested in answers that can fuel your soapbox, anyway. If this makes you feel superior or victorious, that's fine. That's a delusion I will lose no sleep over. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva -- you haven't replied in a rational way to a single particular point I've raised here -- your responses have been emotional. And this is very typical behavior for religionists of all kinds -- they have difficulty handling a rational discussion about non-rational beliefs. Judaism is a very complex subject -- the tradition includes numerous competing and contradictory factions. Overgeneralizing about Judaism, Christianity and Islam is an intellectual error, in my opinion. - Sean McBride

Actually, my responses have been very rational. I'm just addressing your motives and not your points. You just can't seem to understand the fact that you are not entitled to someone's answers just because you ask them questions. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva -- you're addressing motives, and not the substantive points being addressed in this thread? That is not how reasonable people conduct rational discussions and debates. If you can't handle logical, factual and civil challenges to your beliefs, probably public discussion forums aren't a favorable medium for you. :) For others here, I will simply reiterate: there are several strains of Judaism, some extremely intolerant, some very tolerant. This is a fact known to any serious student of world religions. - Sean McBride

Heh I shared this on Reader as well with my personal favorite "Please do the needful" as a comment. - Erica Baker

Reminds me of a recent episode of Radio Lab on NPR. I never knew about tonal languages before hearing it. Fascinating. - Harvey Simmons

The title is misleading. Languages have been spoken imperfectly by foreign speakers since time immemorial, but has that impacted the way the standard dialects are pronounced? Also iiuc you don't have what's defind as a dialect until you have a group of native speakers. - j1m

@jim Yes. Language is ever mutating in large part to cross-cultural saturaton. Every language historically shows this. - Michael W. May via twhirl

well, we have similar effect in Russian where language norm is kept more stringently (since Russian empire) - like changing noun's gender for irregular (borrowed) nouns, etc - silpol

it is fascinating to see so many French words in english traced back to 1066 normandie conquest. - Pokai

English is very much like Chinese: damn simple grammar and words you can't imagine how to pronounce right given their written form: http://www.mipmip.org/tidbits/... - 9000

@Michael: do you have any links to interesting descriptions of historical examples? (Where foreign-resident populations' grammar choices effect how the language is spoken where it is primary, without invading like the Romans and Normans, and where this is driven primarily be foreign-resident speech, not by speech patterns adopted by immigrants?) But rereading the article, I guess they don't mean to suggest that, just to talk breathlessly about how English is spoken overseas....which of course is a startling new phenomenon this last million years. - j1m

The article doesn't really suggest Chinglish will spread back into core standard English, but that it will become recognized as a first class language variant. I'm not sure about that - people in places like China speak English to engage with English speakers abroad (or with people who do, or to orient themselves in that direction), and I think that prevents their dialect from "centering" in a way that intellectuals will strive to codify and honor its local rules. - ⓞnor

Having spent time in Malaysia & Singapore, Chinglish is already the dominant language but not just Chinglish but throw in a bit of Hakka, a bit of Hokien, a sprinkle of Malay and you have thousands of variants based on an English kernel. metaphorically, English will become Facebook and the variations of English will become the mob wars or super pokes. Even though you may not understand it completely, you get the gist and understand why others use it. - Dedric

Can I enshrine that in some sort of metaphor hall of shame? :) - ⓞnor

And having a $3,000 a plate dinner doesn't mean that $3K dinners are the only way to meet Obama. You're not paying $3K to meet him. You're donating $3K to support the campaign. Last year Obama had a $2,300-per-person fundraiser in Los Altos the same day as a $50-per-person fundraiser in San Francisco. People go to the fundraiser that matches their support. It's not like people are bargain-hunting. - Kevin Fox

granted, but I thought the idea was to rely on the 1 million + base of small donors to limit the influence of the wealthy (excluding Oprah) on the Presidency? - Pokai

The idea, as with any campaign, is to raise as much money as possible. In Obama's case, the majority comes from smaller fundraisers, and the average contribution is much smaller than the other candidates. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't court $2300 donors as well. - ⓞnor

yes - but will he videoblog it? Index it? add meta-data? - Marc Canter

No, but he might talk about it with his Klan in World of Warcraft. - Robert Scoble

Hopefully he's impressed. We're doing as much as we can to make this service the best for teens. :) - Sean Quinn via twhirl

Did he start the conversation with "Who are you?" ? - Mike Doeff

Sean I think he is about as impressed as I am with Identi.ca. Sorry. - Robert Scoble

Starting 'well traveled', especially the trip to DC, makes a big difference. Congrats - Charlie Anzman

hey, thats superb...i'd be proud too no doubt. - Zee from WeDoCreative

Ha, well as true with every aspect of Web 2.0 and life in general, YMMV. - Sean Quinn via twhirl

Scoble II coming soon to the web near you. - Unleash Video via twhirl

Cool! - Mitchell Tsai

mini-scobleizer.com (not a real site) :) I saw Loic interview Daniel...Loic said something like it felt too limited, somebody else tried the same thing. He suggested that Daniel do something like organize teen communities for seesmic and he'd be first customer... - Pokai

Your son should have an account in friendfeed - MicroDump

LOL! Like father like son huh! - Jack

I wonder - where's Patrick on FF/Twitter? - Yuvi

Daniel is inspiring - he's living the life I wish I could have at that age. The next Ben Casnocha... - Jesse Stay

Yuvi: my son is into WoW, not blogging or FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble

Can I send him after Commissioner Tate? She's obsessed with "protecting children" - Andrew Feinberg

Mustards in Napa is pretty good. If you make it to Sonoma, try the Girl and the Fig - Tim FitzGerald

Restaurant Cuvee (nice courtyard), Zuzu (tapas), Angele (bistro w/terrace), Cole's Chop House (best steak in town), Annalien (Vietnamese) all popular local Napa venues.Terra, St Helena. - Dave Martin

vineyard-wise there are two I would not miss - Clos Pegase (for the artwork as well as the wine) and, if you can make time to get to Sonoma, I'd swing by Matanzas Creek (gorgeous lavender if its not too late in the season). Enjoy. - Barry Graubart via twhirl

I second the "Girl and the Fig" recommendation. - Tom Landini

thank you all for your recommendations! - Loic Le Meur

Go to Bouchon, the pomme frites are a must have. - Jerry Schuman

French Laundry (3 stars Michelin) for Loic by Thomas Keller...considered one of best chefs in country. - Pokai

but you can only make a reservation for French Laundry exactly 3 months to the day you want to go in advance. On the phone. Only. - edythe

Going in a few weeks....please pass on what you learn - Erin Kotecki Vest

French Laundry was booked :( - Loic Le Meur

It's Bistro Jeanty (http://www.bistrojeanty.com/), the one I was talking about. Very good. - fbrunel

Loic, I would have been very impressed if you had gotten a table at FL as a walk-in. edythe wasn't joking about booking 3 months in advance. - Mike Doeff

Mike, agreed, I told them I had thousand of friends on Friendfeed but they still did not want to let me in ;) @fbrunel I booked at bistrojeanty and will report. - Loic Le Meur

we live in Napa - here's our A+ list: Bouchon in Yountville! also Wappo in Calistoga, and the restaurant at the Culinary Institute of course -- all great! Mustards, yes but not Zuzu imho -- and in Napa downtown - Angele, Ubuntu, Julia's Kitchen, the Oxbow Wine Merchant (great cheeses too) & Pizza Azzuro. Be sure to go to the Vitner's Collective in Napa for GREAT wines -->http://www.vintnerscollective.... -- and definitely do some of the Silverado side of the valley for wine tasting. - Jeff Evans

I got into FL on one day's notice, for brunch. They put me on a wait list then called two hours prior to tell me I was "in." Had made other plans, so I turned them do