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Paul shared an item on Google Reader

Greg Mankiw Promotes the Myth of Double Taxation

4 hours ago - Link

I had never thought of this in that way. - Paul

Akiva Moskovitz posted a message on Twitter

“Just for the record: Tylenol and stool softener are NOT the same.”

18 hours ago - Link

edythe, Aaman Lamba, AlexScoble(Robert'sBro), Jeff Quinton and 19 other people liked this

OMG! LOL what did you do?! - Candace Holly

one makes your noggin smushy, the other your poo - Pete Delucchi

Show 18 more comments

OH SHIT - Nathan Rein

dude. - Yolanda

omg - Tad - just Tad

Literally Nathan, literally. - Abby Martin

that's what I'm saying! ... Akiva ... headache softener? - Nathan Rein

LOFL - Far

And the tap goes drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip... - Akiva Moskovitz

Ohh Akiva! I'm so sorry but I'm laughing so hard! - Candace Holly

Yeah, what the hell DID you do? - Helen Is SOOO Not Of Troy

Nice! This sounds like something I'd do..."Then after I got out of the bathroom 2 hours later, I realized I had the wrong bottle. And I still had a headache!" - David Cook

Why, why, WHY are you not filming your life for the rest of us? - Evangeline

Awesome. Really. - Tamar Weinberg

I just really have to ask: did you swallow a suppository, or did a caplet go where no caplet has gone before? - Stupid Blogger (aka Tina)

Thank you for my daily requirement of laughter. - Paul via twhirl

Hate to disappoint but none of the above happened. While I was taking some actual Tylenol (well, okay, a store brand acetaminophen), and while looking at the astonishing array of bottles in the cabinet ('how in the HELL do we have so many bottles in here?'), the thought just came up. - Akiva Moskovitz

LOL Akiva...this reminds me when I was taking muscle relaxers instead of my cold medicine...dang, did the same mix up with birth control pills and my allergy meds. or when my husband was cleaning the windows with bug spray instead of glass cleaner. - faboo mama

For a bug-free shine! - Akiva Moskovitz

Better factor that into the Diaper Spreadsheet. - Jay Tannenbaum

We're gunna need a bigger boat. - Akiva Moskovitz

Hmmm, this explains something I was wondering about. - Steven Perez

Sorry, but that immediately made me smile, thinking of the possibilities??? - John

Leslie Carbone posted a message on Plurk

“LeslieCarbone says FOX rep'ts McCain campaign to distribute U.S. flags rescued from trash at DNC. I have to admit that's pretty smart.”

yesterday at 9:38 am - Link

Larry Huffman and Akiva Moskovitz liked this

I wish he'd rescue the constitution from all those FAKE Christians ( e.g. Dobson, Robertson) and right wingers. - Paul

OOPS it turns out the flag story on FOX was false! http://tinyurl.com/6nu4p6 I have to admit pretty stupid! - Paul via twhirl

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

From a Housewife Hated by Sarah Palin for Defending the Librarian

yesterday at 12:24 pm - Link

This an ABSOLUTE must read. - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

Question

yesterday at 11:47 am - Link

Josh Marshall asks a great question! - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

Helping Out on "The Maverick" and "Keeping America Strong"

Friday at 10:00 am - Link

Aside from the fact the right wing has no grasp of history. They obviously can't spell either. - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

Are Sarah Palin and John Hagee soulmates?

Thursday at 6:07 pm - Link

Palin's Catholic Problem. - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

New Complaint Against Palin on Trooper-Gate

Thursday at 6:07 pm - Link

Drip, Drip, Drip, Drip - Paul

Paul bookmarked a page on delicious

Online Encyclopedia and Dictionary - Francis Bellamy

Thursday at 5:03 pm - Link

Online Encyclopedia and Dictionary - Francis Bellamy - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

The Washington Monthly

Thursday at 5:12 am - Link

Palin: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes ... raise payroll taxes ... raise investment income taxes ... raise the death tax ... raise business taxes ... and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars. My sister Heather and her husband have just built a service station that's now opened for business - like millions of others who run small businesses. How are they going to be any better off if taxes go up?" Well, it all depends whose taxes go up, doesn't it? If Heather and her husband make less than $250,000, their taxes will not go up. Most Americans will pay less in taxes under Obama's plan than under McCain's. So they might well be better off. - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

New Emails Suggest Holes in Palin's Trooper-Gate Story

Wednesday at 8:28 pm - Link

Another shoe drops.... - Paul

Akiva Moskovitz posted a message

“I am avoiding FriendFeed briefly because of all the cruel, partisan, and personal attacks I keep seeing. I will, however, say this: all of it, the good, the bad, and the ugly makes me want only want one thing: to watch The West Wing. Every episode.”

Wednesday at 7:32 pm - Link

Cyndy, Heather Cee, Erin McMahon, Rahsheen(isSoAwesome) and 6 other people liked this

how am i missing all these personal attacks? I don't think i've seen one... - Zee at WeDoCreative

Josiah Bartlett in 08! (I wish.) - Abby Martin

Show 15 more comments

I haven't seen any either. Akiva fail? - Michael J Cohen

I'm Toby. - Akiva Moskovitz

Josiah Bartlett in 08? Yeah his real name is Barack Obama - AlexScoble(Robert'sBro)

Love it! :) - Abby Martin

I'm good at skim reading, and quickly passing over that which I don't find interesting, so I'm not avoiding FriendFeed at all - perhaps being a little more selective than usual. - Ian May

Michael, I fail because you didn't see the same comments that I saw? Please. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, I hate to see you go, even if briefly. Don't stay away long, please =) - Stupid Blogger (aka Tina)

Enjoy your respit, Akiva. I'll miss seeing your comments on FF in the interim. - Phil (scribkin)

Michael, srsly? - Shey

AKIVA.. NOOOOO - Kyle Lacy

What's wrong with the West Wing, Kyle? ;) - Mona N.

Yes, Akiva- don't go. Use the hide button liberally and/or skim but don't deprive us of your wit. :) - Abby Martin

Akiva Moskovitz in 08! - Paul via twhirl

More no for leaving.. he brings 80% of my laughs.. every night.. West Wing is okay - Kyle Lacy

yah Akiva, stick around. I've been glad that I finally subscribed to you after seeing you around my other friends on here. - Kamilah Gill

Hike/like ratio is about 90% :-( - Nathan Howell

Hah, wow, I didn't mean for this to turn into a YAY AKIVA thread but, wow, thanks! I only wanted to disappear during the hours of the RNC and then I got distracted doing other things. It's not like I'd leave you all for DAYS unless I'm sick or on vacation or something. - Akiva Moskovitz

Awwwww . . . don't avoid us . . . just ignore their posts. You'll miss all the krispy kreme burger posts - Lindsey Smith

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

EUROWOGS.

Wednesday at 7:26 pm - Link

I really wish someone would buy right wingers a history book. - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

Kristol: Dating a stripper is ‘important for your character.’

Wednesday at 5:32 pm - Link

These people are making my head hurt. - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

Cindy McCain disagrees with Palin on abortion.

Wednesday at 3:37 pm - Link

Something tells me that even McCain's wife isn't exactly on board with pick of Palin. - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

Wanker Of The Day

Wednesday at 12:39 pm - Link

I particularly like the last line of the post. I pretty much sums it up. - Paul

Paul shared an item on Google Reader

Finely Aged Whine

Wednesday at 8:40 am - Link

Josh makes a great point. - Paul

Dave Winer posted a message on Twitter

“In case it isn't obvious -- McCain fucked up. He should have gone with Romney.”

Tuesday at 9:28 pm - Link

Ron Emrick, PonziPirillo, Chuck Fishman, Frankie Warren and 20 other people liked this

No kidding. But I'm loving the Sarah Palin soap opera. - Tim Mesa via twhirl

I hope so. Then again, it's just about all they have going on. What a boring convention scene tonight! This may invigorate the base in a way that nothing else has yet. - Bob DeAmbra

Show 90 more comments

It's funny to see their banners at the GOP Convention b/c it looks like it says "McCain Pain '08" - Larry Kless

McCain and the Republicans face the prospect of an endless mess about Sarah Palin -- the L'il Abner soap opera is going to grow more lurid and divert attention away from all substantive issues. At some point they will notice that they are looking ridiculous. - Sean McBride

He needed someone young to counter his weaknesses as told him by his PR men, the fact he'll be dead soon. Nothing to do with actual policies of the individuals involved. - HollowMarkeD

Mitt Romney was clearly his best choice, but the Christian fundamentalists who have destroyed the Republican Party blocked that move. - Sean McBride

What's great is how McCain is refusing to acknowledge complexity - Bush Deux (doh) - tom matrullo

I'm not so sure. This is playing VERY well in huge parts of our society. Let's face it, it only looks idiotic to those of us who were going to vote for Obama anyway. To the other side of the fence? She is just like them. She has that base energized and that's very important cause now they'll make sure they turn out and vote and they feel they have something to vote for, instead of just against Obama. The ones this decision put into play? Moderate Republicans and independents. How many of them are left? - Robert Scoble

What do you base that on? - Dave Winer

Also I should explain. Having just returned from the DNC where the speeches were coordinated and they connected with each other, and led to a finale that was truly inspiring, the Republicans are acting more like Democrats, with a cacaphony of confusion. All the focus is on the #2 position, and that's a problem, esp if they should happen to win! - Dave Winer

He should have gone with Barney, a large purple dinosaur as the #2 that is the way forward!! - Joe Dawson

Remember, that after the election comes (gulp) governing. Someone is going to have their finger on the button. How they make decisions is very material to our future quality of life (or lack thereof). - Dave Winer

Dave: I used to be a fundamentalist Christian, remember? These people vote the ticket and have since the 80s.These people approach life like a sports fan does. My brother Ben is one of them. I'm sure he's overjoyed with this choice. He doesn't listen to rational arguments. - Robert Scoble

I agree with Scoble. People I know who are far more conservative than I am are very pleased with the Palin choice. The foibles don't bother them so much, because there's plenty of people with those views who have endured foibles personally or known people who have. Especially people who were more likely to sit the election out, feeling disgusted with the whole process, now feel they have someone who at least reflects some of their views. - Justin Long

You said "This is playing VERY well in huge parts of our society" and I asked how do you know. You said you know because you used to be a fundamentalist CHristian and your brother Ben is happy. Well, that isn't huge parts of our society, that isn't even huge parts of your family. - Dave Winer

Dave: how many fundamentalist Christian Republicans watched the Democratic convention? They might have seen it the way a sports team does -- that the other team is playing better so they need to step it up. - Robert Scoble

I agree, he's got to be insane to choose a woman. - Mike Lewis

Robert, not sure I entirely agree. Many of my moderate and independent friends who were leaning towards McCain are now not doing so, because they see it as a hypocritical decision after he spent all summer arguing Obama's lack of experience then picking someone even less experienced. The HRC fans who were going to vote McCain are telling me they cannot vote for a conservative fundamentalist who believes in creationism. But that's the liberal NE crowd. In Kansas and the heartlands it might be different. - Sally Church

McCain VP pick : Dead upon arrival : This is no longer a contest. McCain fumbled the ball, and there is no time left on clock. Obama takes the knee and wins the Game. - imran

Dave: well, after this week, I'm sure we'll have some polling data to study. Of course I'm basing my opinion here on my knowledge of how many religious people think. The real interesting polling data will come after the debates. If minds are going to be shifted, it'll be there. - Robert Scoble

Mike, that's not helping. - Brian Norwood

for me, his pick is a good indication of his decision-making process. Obama does extensive diligence. McCain shoots from the hip in a few days without all the facts. - Travis Parsons

imran: as much as I'd LOVE for you to be right (and Winer too) I'm very concerned that McCain has jumped back into this big time. When I visited DC a couple months ago even Republicans were telling me that Obama would win. That's changed. - Robert Scoble

+1 Robert - Kyle Lacy

Travis: how many here are evangelical Christians? Will anyone admit to it here? - Robert Scoble

http://www.cookpolitical.com/n... - For what it's worth, the Gallup tracking poll of 2,730 registered voters conducted Aug. 29-31 shows Obama up 6 points, 48 percent to 42 percent, while the CNN/Opinion Research poll of 927 registered voters shows it at 49 percent to 48 percent. Take the average of the two and you're close to the 3.5-point advantage that Obama has averaged for the past three month - Justin Long

I'm a evangelical Christian and I voted for Romney in the primarys for the state of Michigan. - Colide81

I am a Christian, though I typically don't like to use the "evangelical" term as its bandied about in the modern media (which uses a somewhat different, more politically-loaded definition than the traditional "evangelical" understanding). - Glen Campbell

Sure, I'll admit to it. If you think that makes me a poor decision maker, maybe I'm not the one who has problems being rational. - Brian Norwood

Justin: those polls don't properly reflect the impact of the Palin decision. The polls to watch will be those in a week. - Robert Scoble

See also http://www.cookpolitical.com/n... for a pretty indepth analysis on why McCain didn't pick the others. Ridge, Lieberman: no-no for abortion. Romney: too rich, too many houses. Pawlenty: unsure why no here. Its an interesting analysis. - Justin Long

FWIW, I think McC pretty much had the evangelical vote before Palin. The right wing of his party warned him that they'd create a stink at the convention if he chose Lieberman, so he caved and picked Palin and they're happy, like your brother. But whether or not that does him any good remains to be seen. He was gaining on Obama pretty seriously before the conventions, and that was based on the celebrity campaign which is washed up now. - Dave Winer

Brian and Glen and Colide: does the Palin choice make you less or more excited to vote for McCain? Emotionally. Not rationally. Politics isn't decided rationally. It's more akin to team sports. - Robert Scoble

Scoble: Yep, the article makes that clear. They are "for what its worth." Which isn't much... - Justin Long

Robert: Polls will show dead heat, rest of the way, maybe even McCain leading by few, but come election night, Obama will have comfy win. McCain was first beaten by Bush and now by himself. - imran

I'm an evangelical Christian, but not a fundamentalist. The two DO NOT equate, typically. - Justin Long

He let Obama off the hook by choosing a celebrity of his own. That's why I thought Romney would have worked better. It would have fed the story that was working. "We (the Repubs) may be boring, but we know how to run things" whereas Obama gives a good speech and is pretty (never mind that Romney is pretty vain himself)." - Dave Winer

Dave: I really hope you're right. Let's say you are. Did McCain just take one for the country? Here's alternative thinking. By giving into the Religious Right and, if, he loses, like you say, he might have known he was doing that. Next time up the Religious Right will have far less power in choosing a candidate because anyone who wanted to win would say "we went with your decision last time and it was rejected." - Robert Scoble

@scoble I'll admit proudly to holding a faith that would be labeled as "evangelical" but I would also quickly add that, for me at least, there are many excesses that are a direct result of "evangelicalism" becoming a sub-culture in this country that I reject. - Marco (aureliusmaximus)

also I'm voting for McCain simply because I don't want Obama in the White House I don't care about any other issue. - Colide81

I had a conversation with some guys in NC that may qualify as "evangelical." we discussed Obama's speech at DNC. First response was "I'm not sure about Obama's background.. his support of Muslims and the Wright stuff." Not saying this applies to all people.. but there are certainly some strange responses to Obama out there and they are probably very widespread. - Travis Parsons

Lawrence O'Donnell explained it pretty well this morning on MSNBC. He was a writer on the West Wing, and he said Palin is like Glenn Close who appeared in one episode and made a big splash, but that was it. Imho, McC would have done well to endure the wrath of the right wing, and moved to the center. Romney would have been a good compromise. No excitement, which is fine. And they might have lost, but it would have been close. I don't think it'll be close with Palin. Again, imho. - Dave Winer

Dave: I really hope so. By the way, I just gave another $100 to Obama because of Palin. So she is energizing at least some on the left side of the fence. Now we have something to vote for (Obama) and against (Palin). - Robert Scoble

By the way, I'm very conservative, but I've never said this was a "good" choice. I've simply tried to put the "inexperience" comments in the proper light. I'd have liked to see Liberman personally. It would have sent the message "let's get some real work done". Because, while I HATE that we have made a billion dollar industry of abortion, there are things like immigration, infrastructure, social security, and the GDP I'd like the government to actually get to work on. - Brian Norwood

it is interesting to look back at the comments at the number of times terms like "they" and "them" are used with regards to people of faith/evangelicals/fundamentalists/christians etc - its as if the individuals who fall into any one of those tidy categories are some sort of bizarre Area 51 dwelling alien creature that many of you are gazing at in wonderment through a glass window - I know that many of you do not mean to convey that but that is what makes the Red vs Blue chasm so wide at times - Marco (aureliusmaximus)

Do you guys really think, in the final analysis, that the VP pick will be THE deciding factor? For me, the VP is interesting... but I wouldn't say the VP is a deal breaker. Bigger issue, to me, is the candidate's positions and their perceived ability to actually get something done despite not having majorities in Congress. - Justin Long

the Palin choice makes me more excited because it shows he listens to his base and in return I will fight harder to elect him. - Colide81

Marco: when I attended an Evangelical Christian church for more than a decade you wouldn't believe the number of times I heard the same language used to describe non believers. You have a good point, though. It +is+ divisive speech and it's something I have to fix in my own head. - Robert Scoble

Justin: the VP is more important to McCain because of his age. My mom died when she was 66. McCain is already past that and it certainly does play in my head as being a more important issue with McCain than with Obama. Although, I should treat them equally. People can die at any time and that's something that we don't like to think about, but should. Either way, Obama hired more experience than he had, McCain went with far less experience than he had. I think that says something. - Robert Scoble

See, I think that's one of the reasons why the soap opera won't affect the conservative base that much. It's not *her* so much as what she *represents* - that the candidate is listening to people who back him, or at least they perceive him to be listening. their voice is heard, and so they are willing to make their voice heard through a vote. but those who are not interested in speaking to mccain feel very different feelings. - Justin Long

Justin: exactly. Most people approach this as a team sport. Palin is one of them (oh, sorry, there I go again using that divisive language). - Robert Scoble

On the horse race aspect, two comments: 1) We're still in the most volatile perios of the election cycle, polling is of little utility. Wait till next week when the dust settles. 2) Palin seems to have fired up the right wing base, but (and it's early to tell), at the expense of independents and moderates. Doing the former worked for Bush because party identification was at rough parity. Right now the GOP has a ten point deficit in that regard - McCain needs independents a lot more than the base. - Eric

Yes, the VP is important, because he's old and also because it gives us an idea of how he makes important decisions. - Dave Winer

Robert: the selection of Palin, on a purely emotional level, does make me more interested. But NOT because of her evangelical Christian background; that, in fact, tends to be a negative in my book. One of the problems IMHO in our culture in general is that we want to be able to "label" people; someone will say, "Glen's an evangelical Christian, therefore I know exactly how he thinks." That bigotry, like racism, allows us to avoid connecting on an individual level. - Glen Campbell

@scoble ready for this bombshell? (I CAN'T believe I am about to post this) I went to Bob Jones University for 3 years so I have grown up surrounded by the exact same type of language - I am far FAR tougher on people on my side of the aisle (no pun intended but I'll take it!) - the "we" vs "them" mentality is the biggest gripe I have with not only people from the religious circles I grew up in but my political circles as well - I'm am going to hit send before I delete the part about going to Bob Jones ; ) - Marco (aureliusmaximus)

I've reading he energizes basethrough some of the comments. The real issue is McCain's judgement in picking Palin when there were so many other women in the Republican Party that would have been much better. And yes Palin energizes the base but he has to reach to far more people then just the base. - Paul via twhirl

So those who are not voting for McCain feel the VP selection is important due to more rational reasons - age, decision-making, hypocrisy of charges. But those voting for McCain feel the VP selection is important for more emotional reasons - that they are being listened to. or perhaps those are a different form of rational reason? two different takes, and the reasons why the soap opera will turn off those who are opposed to him, but not affect very much those who are pro-mccain? - Justin Long

Oh well Marco. I'm presently serving as a missionary in Asia. And the interesting thing to me is how many missionaries don't like the divisive language either, and how many of them are having what would be to some surprising electoral leanings! - Justin Long

Glen: if you study 100 evangelical Christians they will vote more Republican than the overall population. Yeah, not everyone will, but enough will that it's important as a voting block. Same for unions and other subgroups. Heck, more technology and science minded people will vote for Obama, but not all of us will. Justin: that's my read on it too. - Robert Scoble

Scoble: I'll proudly be lumped in with the Christian crowd. I'm more of a reformed Christian, less of a fundie. Anyway, I'll say that before the VP announcement, I was voting for McCain, because I fear for an America with someone like Obama at the helm. Now? I'm happily voting for McCain, because I'm excited about the future of the Republican party now. - Trevor Carpenter

Until recently, I feared the Republicans were headed toward a moderate form of the Democrat party. Now? I'm actually excited that we may be able to repair it from the damage caused by the neocons. (Trevor=hates neocons) - Trevor Carpenter

Thanks for the great and thoughtful exchange, guys. Nice to have one that is (mostly) flame free :) But its 11pm where I am, and I'm going to bed. Look forward to seeing the rest of the comments in the morning--and doubtless we made ffholic.com! :) - Justin Long

Trevor: are you sure you're not actually my brother Ben? Sounds like the same. He won't vote Democrat no matter what. - Robert Scoble

lol Trevor Carpenter meet Sean McBride - Sean McBride meet Trevor Carpenter (said in the most joking and cordial way Sean!) - Marco (aureliusmaximus)

I just want this to be over and Obama Wins White House, Biden fixes world relations, Obama will give us great economy and undo Bush. - imran

I do wish someone would do something to get the dollar back up in value. That plus the rise in prices due to the rise in oil has been killing us. Well, not literally, but you know what I mean. The dollar has lost a quarter of its value while a lot of prices doubled in the last 2 years. - Justin Long

Robert Scoble, what's with the format of your question, "how many here are evangelical Christians? Will anyone admit to it here?". Do you envision that evangelical Christians are some devious group, ashamed to self-identify in respectable company? I am a Christian, if you're taking roll call. - Jim Ierley

Robert: FriendFeed doesn't allow long enough comments, so I followed up here: http://blog.broadpool.com/2008... - Glen Campbell

I think more that we might be afraid to own up for getting flamed. I personally don't usually mention it when I'm in normally tech-heavy areas. It's usually a waste of my time. But tonight's conversation has been great. (See, I'm still up, even when I said I was going to bed.) - Justin Long

I don't know what emotional advantage Palin brings that wouldn't be true of any conservative woman. Why not pick Rice? (maybe she's too smart to say yes?) Or perhaps Lisa Murkowski, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Elizabeth Dole or Kay Bailey Hutchison all current serving US Senators? or even Janice Rogers Brown, the judge I tried to champion when the Harriet Myers debacle went down. - Brian Norwood

Dave, to your point... What people are missing is that the reason Palin brings energy is two fold. 1) she's a good example of living the pro-life message, and 2) she is a regular person. Romney's pro-life credentials are still being built up, and let's face it, how many people can identify with a mega-rich businessman? You don't think that the Left would launch a non-stop drumbeat of portraying Romney as more of the same "country-club" Republicanism until election day? - Jim Ierley

If Obama talked cutting spending instead of raising taxes, He'd be a hard man to beat. - Brian Norwood

obama messed up by picking someone so obviously in the pocket of lobbyists. - Tony Kanzia

The lower your intelligence and the less your education, the more likely you are to be a religious fundamentalist. The higher your intelligence and the greater your education, the less likely you are to be a religious fundamentalist. In other words, religious fundamentalism correlates closely with stupidity and ignorance. There are exceptions, but this is the main statistical trend. It should also be pointed out that the American Founding Visionaries, who were steeped in Enlightenment rationalism, despised religious fundamentalism and fanaticism. - Sean McBride

Jim lerley: I wanted to demonstrate to Dave Winer that the choice of Palin has energized his base big time. - Robert Scoble

Sean: you would be shocked to hear how often that line was quoted by the pastors at my church (when I attended in the 80s). It's used as a dividing line. Sort of like "you don't need to be smart to be accepted by God" and "don't get too smart cause you might not get into heaven" kind of mind thought warfare. But, again, we're all behaving like this is a sports team. Not going to get us anywhere. I'd rather talk about technology and science and how our innovation is going overseas. (Watch my latest video). - Robert Scoble

lol @sean I don't think I have had an interaction with you yet that I haven't enjoyed (being 100% sincere) - have no doubts in the statistics you cite but we are now in a very fuzzy zone of defining "religious fundamentalist" - Marco (aureliusmaximus)

Robert: Appreciate the reply... I'm just pointing out that your second question, "Will anyone admit to it here?" is unnecessary. Am I reading it wrong? It implies a negative. - Jim Ierley

Marco - religious fundamentalists are very different from religionists (especially moderate religionists). Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu and other varieties of religious fundamentalists all tend to share the same set of psychological traits and behavioral patterns. They tend to be intellectually lazy, poorly educated and believe in the literal truth of a "sacred" text. They are highly suggestible to cultism and cult movements. Sarah Palin is a religious fundamentalist. - Sean McBride

Robert, I'm sorry your church let you down so bad. But I assure you, I attend a very academic church, with a very high percentage of the congregation holding college degrees, and I've NEVER attended a congregation that didn't stress the importance of sharp reasoning. Also, I've seen many people (I'm gonna borrow your analogy) from the other team use that kind of thinking to dismiss "us" completely. I don't want a theocracy in America, but I won't have my concerns dismissed by evangelical Atheists either. - Brian Norwood

I've said this before on another post, but I'll reiterate my outsider's (Canadian) opinion. The "average American" does not debate on FF, does not watch the conventions closely, does not read as much as possible in order to make an informed decision, etc. The "average American" was responsible for getting GWB elected TWICE. As far as the "average American" is concerned GWB is just like them and Sarah Palin is just like them. Sarah Palin is an asset to the McCain campaign. Obama has an uphill battle. - Kenton

Fascinating recounting of those comments from your church, Robert. You bet there are anti-intellectuals in Christian camps. God made us to be rational beings, not those who check their brains at the door. However, is the worth of a human being his smartness? That's messed up, too. Seems like the opposite error. - Jim Ierley

Interesting, I have just heard from 2 christian conservative, Reagan loving Republican friends (their own description). Both wanted Romney for VP. One is staying loyal to the GOP, the other is switching to Obama but not telling his wife! - Sally Church

Brian: my mom belonged to a cult up in Montana. Church Universal and Triumphant. I went up there and did a story on the cult (now a more legitimate church, but in the early 1990s it was a huge news story because they were building bomb shelters and preparing for an upcoming nuclear war). Nearly everyone I met had a college degree (including my mom). Funny thing, though. They couldn't keep kids there. They saw through it all and didn't like all the stupid rules and chanting. - Robert Scoble

Don't you wish more people were loyal to America than their political party? - todd

Jim: most religious folks I know don't admit they are religious online because often they will be attacked. That's what I was getting at. - Robert Scoble

If Obama had picked Gov. Sebelius as his VP, would she and her family be picked through like Palin? Why are any of us talking about a "soap opera" or "foibles"? What foibles? - Jim Ierley

todd: most people who are fanatical supporters of their political party see themselves as more loyal to America than the other party's supporters are. Look at the Republican themes at their convention for a great example of this. - Robert Scoble

Jim: Time Magazine named her one of the top five Governors in the nation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K... and I don't see the kinds of stuff that she's supported that would get her ire. What do you think is attackable about her? - Robert Scoble

Todd: Here, here! Robert (on todd's comment): I agree with you. Admittedly, I feel that way. I see the liberal left (Democrats) yearning for the US to be more like Europe, in every way. I see the neocons yearning for who knows what. I see the legitimate conservatives (paleoconservatives)(me), as yearning for a return to a true America, one not twisting and destroying the Constitution, but leading a nation the way it was intended. - Trevor Carpenter

Thanks for listening, Robert. I guess I could understand people opting out of the online conversations, but not for that reason. I would figure that people often see online religious discussions as having little potential for building mutual understanding, let alone agreement. ....You're right that the base is energized by Palin. It will be a step forward when her critics can start arguing against her policies ("what she would do") rather than who she is. - Jim Ierley

Robert: You're misunderstanding, I don't want Sebelius, Palin, or anyone else to be demonized or for their families to be targeted. - Jim Ierley

@Robert - You make an interesting point about how our innovation is going overseas. It is due to high taxes and high regulation. California has been losing businesses for years because of this (http://tinyurl.com/58uvb9 article from 2004). AAA will move their call centers from California. Which candidate do you think will be able to stop the movement of jobs offshore? This requires lower taxes and less regulation. - Chris Mayer

Regulation is supposed to be used to keep people safe, not ensure that the government get a piece of the action. Some tax is necessary, too much just makes it easy to go elsewhere. I admit, this was a failure of Bush II and his congress that spent like drunken sailors. I can't swear McCain will cut spending, but cutting spending doesn't seem to be on the Obama radar which leaves one choice. Raise taxes. - Brian Norwood

@Robert, I'm an evangelical Christian. Who's obviously late to this discussion :( - Larry Huffman

Ontario Emperor posted a message

“I gotta ask - if Obama had selected Palin, wouldn't it be hailed as a bold, extraordinary choice?”

Wednesday at 6:26 am - via fftogo - Link

Zach Scott, Mike Lewis, Jay Tannenbaum, David Billingham and 8 other people liked this

Nice one Ontario - Kyle Lacy

No it would have been shredded worse than this one is. The media bias against Republicans is a myth. It is far to the right rather than the left. - Brad Nickel

Show 57 more comments

not by this lil lady. - Anna Haro

I'd still be saying WTF was he thinking - Michael W. May via twhirl

Are you kidding? Bill O'Reilly would had done something inappropriate in his pants adding up the experience numbers and the who baby fiasco (fiascos?) would have wound up on the Inquirer with questions on whether Barack was the father. - Stupid Blogger (aka Tina)

No, it would be seen as it is now - a confusing, overly manipulative one. - Steve Isaacs

I think there would be a lot of Obama fanboys defending him if he had. - Lindsey Smith

Obama hired himself someone more experienced than himself. McCain hired someone with far less experience than himself. I know what I think of bosses who hire that way. I usually try to get away, and fast. - Robert Scoble

no. - Sam Harrelson via twhirl

Robert: well said! - Sally Church

Elections are rarely about fanboys, the hard base (though with this pick, it is becoming so). It's about the grey area voters. - Michael W. May via twhirl

Uh, no. Because on the issues that matter they differ almost 100%. - AJ Kohn

I agree Michael, I was just agreeing with the OP. I do think ultimately though he would have went down in flames the way McCain is. - Lindsey Smith

Sorry to disappoint, Ontario, but I wouldn't be happy if Obama had selected Palin. I agree with Robert. - Nathaniel Payne

Following Robert's logic though McCain would have to pick Methuselah - Brian Sullivan

*nod* I understood, Lindsey, I just had to put the coherent thought down whilst I had it ;) - Michael W. May via twhirl

yes it would have been hailed as bold new choice, a new directoion outside of typical washington especially by the same people who are posting such negative posts about palin now. - Jonathan Jesse

I think a better analogy would be if he had selected Deval Patrick, first term governor of MA. Patrick had no prior political experience when he was elected. And they are philosophical soul mates after all. That choice would have had the Obamatrons shouting 'forward thinking, original, fresh' yadda yadda yadda. - Peter Simard

Jonathan: can you pass me the bong? Thanks. - Robert Scoble

++Robert... hahaha - Anna Haro

wow.. low blow by Scoble..haha - Kyle Lacy

ooohhhhh . . . Obamatrons. I'll have to remember that :) And yes . . . i'm a democrat. - Lindsey Smith

The same problem with Palin would still exist and the issues that picking Biden were meant to solve would still exist. Besides there are plenty of women in the Republican Party that were far more qualified. Came with far better credentials. - Paul via twhirl

If Obama had picked a VP who was a Christian fundamentalist, a creationist, a book banner, a secessionist, someone with an unmarried pregnant teenage daughter, and someone who thought the Iraq War was a holy mission ordained by God, everyone would have thought he had lost his mind. Is everyone here fully aware of just how crazy Sarah Palin's beliefs are? - Sean McBride

+1 Sean - Lindsey Smith

I love the smell of Republican desperation in the morning.... All these terrified posters and politicians are freaking. Gigs up boys and girls. Bye bye bye... - Brad Nickel

Sean: you seem to think that Sarah's beliefs are out of touch with much of America. I guarantee you they are NOT. To lots of people in America she is just like them. We aren't going to win this one by calling them all crazy. That'll just encourage them. - Robert Scoble

No, it wouldn't. - steplow is Steve

Robert, the war is joined. The Republicans' only chance is a religious war and that began with the Palin pick and last night. It will get bloody. They are cornered. Also, a majority of Americans support progressive values, we just have to make sure they get off their asses and vote. - Brad Nickel

What I can't figure out: why would anyone who supports religious censorship, book banning, oppressive theocracy and similar policies advocated by Sarah Palin and her fellow fundy cult members be attracted to Friendfeed and the Internet? - Sean McBride

Sean, I would assume that Ontario's question assume that Obama would pick the liberal/progressive equivilent to Palin. Which is why I think basic criticism that is beng applied to Palin would still be their as well as the criticisms that are already there of Obama. - Paul via twhirl

Sean: there are plenty of fundamentalist Christians here. They might not self identify, but they are here. Back to my Berlin experience, many of those who did the same thing in Germany were educated. Who burned the books in Berlin? College students. - Robert Scoble

Robert -- to pick just one issue: a large majority of Americans think the Iraq War was a huge mistake. They don't believe it was a holy mission ordained by God. Once they realize what Sarah Palin has really said, and what she really thinks about a host of issues, they are going to be appalled. Most Americans don't share the beliefs of religious fundamentalists and extremists who hate basic American values as defined in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. - Sean McBride

Also, it says something of Obama's judgment that he *didn't* select a leftist mirror-image of Palin. - steplow is Steve

+1 Sean. I am really trying not to engage in political kerfuffle on the social webs but Palin is nuts. - Marci Maleski

Robert: if there are religious fundamentalists here on Friendfeed, apparently they don't have the guts to defend their beliefs in fair and open debate. They must be stealth fundies. In any case, my bet is that most Americans will back away from Sarah Palin once they realize just how extreme her beliefs are. - Sean McBride

If he had passed over Hillary Clinton (the way McCain passed over Kay Bailey Hutchison, Condi Rice, Olympia Snow, and more) to pick a woman so vastly inferior as a candidate, there is NO WAY either side would have seen it as a bold choice. They would have thought he'd lost his marbles. - Cheryl Rice

Cheryl Rice you hit the nail right on the head! - Paul via twhirl

I'm probably what you would call a religious fundamentalist, or at least a social conservative, and I do have the guts to defend my beliefs in fair and open debate, but I don't really feel like wasting my time. I'm not likely to change many minds, or my own, and I just don't feel like its worth saying much about this election. It's all a lot of hot air anyway. I doubt much is going to change because no one has sufficient majority in congress or enough of a mandate from the general populace. - Justin Long

I will say that while I appreciate many of her views I do wish McCain had picked someone with a bit more experience. On the other hand, doesn't she have more executive experience than Biden, McCain OR Obama? - Justin Long

no - guy via twhirl

Justin, She was the mayor of a town of about 9000, Alaska if were a county in the U.S. would be the 86th largest. Shes been governor for about a year and a half. If your were looking for executive experience Condi Rice or Christine Todd Whitman would have have filled that bill far better. - Paul via twhirl

Left leaning people are going to say no to this. Right leaning people are going to say yes to this. Nice litmus test! - Mike Lewis

Justin Long: You are a creationist? You believe in censoring books that disagree with your religious views? You believe that the Iraq War was a holy mission ordained by God? You want to throw out the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights? - Sean McBride

selecting somebody under investigation for corruption is always bold. but it's a poor choice, no matter who picked her. - eric mortensen

And if he wanted to make a bold choice with executive experience he could gone Carly Fiorina. - Paul via twhirl

@Paul: You're missing one bit of experience that Palin has that Fiorina lacks: Palin has won elections. Palin has won elections BIG. The attacks on Palin demonstrate that the Obama campaign is scared of her. - Rob Sterling

Absolutely. Double standards all over the place. - Stephen Shores

@Brian Sullivan - Was Methuselah an option? - leigh himel

@Sean: Can you point me to material that shows Palin's book banning and Iraq War is a holy mission ordained by God? Both are truly frightening and if this is her viewpoint I'll be even more disappointed than I already am. - AJ Kohn

AJ -- if you do a search on my feed for "palin," pointers to the Iraq War and book banning material should turn up near the top of the results. Let me know if you have trouble finding the links, and I will repost them in this thread. - Sean McBride

Seeing them both. I want to know more about the specific books she wanted banned. Though pressuring the librarian to quit if she didn't fully support shows further evidence of her abuse of power. There's a good chance it's from this list: http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/ban... - AJ Kohn

AJ - I would love to see the specific books too. What's not in dispute: she has a proven history of abusing power for questionable reasons. The "God" rhetoric with regard to the Iraq War fits the George W. Bush template to a tee. - Sean McBride

Better question: did Obama consider anyone who only had less than 2 years of holding a major office? - Dan Ciruli

To all - impressive response! - Ontario Emperor

Peter Simard - I agree that Deval Patrick would have been a better comparison. - Ontario Emperor

Sean, Robert, et al - don't assume that censorship is confined to the far right. There are many people who are not of the far right that would prefer that certain words be removed from the public conversation. Agreed? - Ontario Emperor

Similarly with book banning. Movements to ban books are free of political limitations. This point was made forcefully to me in a graduation address (not mine) given by a Samuel Clemens professor of literature. - Ontario Emperor

Ontario -- Sarah Palin threatened to fire a librarian as part of a campaign to ban books that she found offensive to her religious sensibilities. Perhaps some Democrats have engaged in similar activities, and who have reached the level of being a VP nominee. Can you name any? I can't. Face it: religious fundamentalists and extremists have taken over the Republican Party and destroyed it. - Sean McBride

Sean, I was going to note Al Gore's ties to the PMRC, but that was a bipartisan effort, not just confined to the Democrats. Also, this was private censorship rather than government-imposed censorship, which is pretty much the same thing, but still different. I explore this in my recent post at the http://mrontemp.blogspot.com/2... URL, which also looks at this thread, the Risley thingie, Jesse Jackson, and Michael Scanlon. I'm allowed to observe; I went to Mulhouse. - Ontario Emperor

Ontario - The PMRC called not for censorship of books at libraries (especially odious), but for putting warning labels on albums with adult language (not a policy I support). http://tinyurl.com/gt9hk Not censorship - big difference. There really is no equivalent to Sarah Palin on the left. - Sean McBride