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ProFoodChat
What Pro Food ultimately becomes is up to those who recognize and embrace its ideal of healthy, sustainable food systems and make it their own. For it is up to all of us, from farmers to eaters, and everyone else who cares about the food they eat, to carry Pro Food forward and make its vision, its values a reality.
200 lessons of professional makeup and style for the New Year 2012! http://fffashion.ru
Do any of you live in Boston? Please join us at our special events for a food documentary http://hartkeisonline.com/food-po...
FDA has shut down two raw milk cheesemakers that have made no one sick. With S 510 they will have the ability to close down any raw milk farm they choose. http://hartkeisonline.com/food-po...
No more carb cutting, thank God. http://alldayslim.blogspot.com/2010...
Hey check out All Day Slim. Eat want you want and still stay trim. http://knol.google.com/k...
We made it! THANK YOU EVERYONE! WOW - What a week!
Renee Martin, Brett Henderson, Joya Parsons and stephen liked this
Video message from Liz - A huge thanks and the final lap - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Does anyone know this: if you block someone on Twitter, can they still see your posts (and other's @replies to you) via "search"? I know they can create a faux identity but not sure about this.
Carrie ask Joya about it. She's been blocked off and on by one person somany times I'm sure she knows the details.
- Brett Henderson
from iPhone
Yes... I'm blocked by a certain someone, but I can still see anything she tags w/ a hashtag, still see @ replies to her & RTs of her and before she locked her profile entirely I could still see her tweetstream on the web (but not in TweetDeck).
- Joya Parsons
Okay, so no way to block my favorite sponger/plagiarizer. Thanks for the feedback.
- Carrie Oliver
from email
All, I am interviewing Steve Jenkins of Fairway market here in NYC tomorrow. Steve is has been in the food and produce business for a generation and used to work for Dean and Deluca. This is his book: http://www.amazon.com/Food-Li...
would love to get some hard hitting questions in front of him about the local movement, food in urabn environments, the responsibility of food sellers to educate the public, etc...so fire away...Rob, in particular I thought you might have some questions for him...
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Why are the sustainable food wars being primarily played out amongst evangelists and entrenched corporate interests? Where are all the entrepreneurs? What three things would you tell a non-food entrepreneur to help them find their way in a sustainable food venture? Can sustainably grown/raised/processed foods find their way into mainstream America? If so, how? Where is the money to support sustainable food ventures?
- Rob Smart
from email
What would your business look like if oil reached and stayed over 140 a barrel?
- Liz McLellan
Just got wind of this, via Slow Food USA blog ( http://www.slowfoodusa.org/index... ) : Do corporations have too much control over our food supply? [Um, yes] The US Dept. of Justice is on a fact-finding mission and "they want to hear from YOU before December 31st." Go to the post, there is a link at the bottom that goes to a US DOJ email account where you can...
Please share the Slow Food link ( http://su.pr/1y5rIP ) with those who might be interested. Thanks!
- Cooking Up a Story
First Hyperlocavore Book Club Meeting will come to order....http://hyperlocavore.ning.com/forum...
Haven't managed to snag a copy of the book yet... but planning to as soon as possible!
- Joya Parsons
Excellent! Jump right in the waters fine! It's a great read - but that first chapter is rough...just know there's a lot of the light at the end of that tunnel...I will be so awesome to have you Joya -and any other profooders! Thanks!
- Liz McLellan
from email
The start of a new series: Seeds of Life. The first one introduces organic seed breeder Frank Morton, who, along with Organic Seed Alliance, Center for Food Safety, and High Mowing Seeds, brought a lawsuit against the USDA (APHIS) for not securing an EIS before growing transgenic sugar beets. http://cookingupastory.com/seeds-o...
Brett Henderson and Renee Martin liked this
High Def Video Episode of The Dairy Show: Dolce Italiana with Gina de Palma, Pastry Chef at Babbo - http://www.zacharyadamcohen.com/farmtot...
Andrea Wallick liked this
This story keeps getting better the deeper Mark Keating goes into it: The Organic Community, the USDA, and the Morning After http://cookingupastory.com/the-org... "the system", subsuming companies,
'betrayal', Washington cover... it's an unfolding drama by one of the principles involved in the writing of the National Organics Standards. If you have a few minutes, please take a moment to read. Fascinating. If you'd like to share - by tweeting, stumbling, etc., please do! If you have any questions concerning what was going on during this time period, by all means throw Mark a question (on the post). He'd be happy to respond. Many thanks all. Hope you're enjoying this as much as I am.
- Cooking Up a Story
Captains Johnathan & Andy Hillstrand of the F/V Time Bandit have teamed-up with FishEx to arrange nationwide home delivery of their catch. Treat yourself to succulent, fresh-caught Alaska crab from the very same boat and crew that you've seen on TV! http://www.fishex.com/fish-ma...
WOW - dang that's a big crab!
- Liz McLellan
Hey Everyone! I've added the ability to use RSS feeds on profiles on hyperlocavore.com I would be very pleased if you joined and feed your blogs there! It's free, and the benefit to you is hopefully traffic to your site from prequalified profood/real food people! Please use this feature if you are creating content related to : profood realfood sust
sustainability etc... commercial feeds are welcome if you provide services or products that are about sustainability... when in doubt though please ask! HEre's the howto video - It's easy peasy! http://www.youtube.com/user... -- It's a really easy way to get a wider audience for what you are doing! Any questions - hit me!
- Liz McLellan
sorry for the repeat - had issues....
- Liz McLellan
You’re either at the table or on the menu…Genesis of the USDA’s National Organic Program. http://cookingupastory.com/genesis... Inside story how it all came together - and it almost didn't!
That's a well-written post on a very complex subject (this coming from someone - moi - who spent 8 years making proverbial sausage in DC). The next installment is likely to be the one that gets my blood boiling. That is until I remember something I posted the other day during #agchat - Niche companies get absorbed by the big companies and go mainstream & get watered down, but this just opens the door for the next niche product or company. Keep pushing the noodle forward.
- Carrie Oliver
New Blog Post by our very own Heather Walters "Death on a Family Farm: Lessons Learned" http://www.zacharyadamcohen.com/farmtot...
Liz McLellan and Heather Walters liked this
ONL054 Zachary Adam Cohen on Farm to Table and Social Media - http://www.ournaturallife.com/blog...
All, here is a podcast interview by Cathy Payne of Our Natural Life. I did this about 6 weeks ago and its really a fun wide ranging interview that goes over the local food movement, the definition of sustainability, the co option of the term organic, and the important of social media to this growing movement. Hope you enjoy it or download it and listen to the podcast. Would love some feedback. I listened to the podcast last night and really enjoyed it. Obviously its neat to hear the sound of my own voice (egotist as i am) but I really like some of Cathy's questions and the flow of the interview
- Zachary Adam Cohen
thanks, Zach. I like what Cathy and John are doing!
- Cooking Up a Story
Nice podcast!! You sounded great. Trouble with these (and I've done several) is they tend to be long so hard to get folks to listen to the whole thing. Can you create sound bites like they do on the news and then have option to "hear more" (kind of like "after the jump"). That way, you can get key messages across and draw people in to hear the whole story.
- Carrie Oliver
Yes
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
Great interview, Zach!
- Joya Parsons
wow, seems like things kind of took different turn, not sure I like, but attendance was huge.
What didn't you like?
- Joya Parsons
ur welcome!
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
it was just so cozy before, sitting around talking recipes, food, now its kind of blend profood/agchat. However, I was really impressed how everyone profood or agchat is so freaking motivated for change
- profood
lol yeah zach all ur doing
- profood
stting around talking recipes? friggin boring...we need to take this thing into overdrive...thats what i want out of profood not a coffee klatch...what do you want out of it friend?
- Zachary Adam Cohen
lol ur too much, talk to @podchef he called for the smackdown. I'm sitting here stirring the pot and your checking in all over town on foursquare
- profood
BTW, where is Neal tonight? I missed his cranky posts. :)
- Brock Haffner
that freaking guy is in world of his own and we're all better off for it
- profood
I love the girls getting together for coffee and a snort, but to be honest I get that here more often. Plus I don't have to protect every word because somebody is going to pull it out of context and RT it.
- Brett Henderson
from iPhone
Which turn?
- Liz McLellan
Was this a typical #profoodchat? I haven't attended one before since Sundays are typically rough for me. This was fun!
- FairFoodFight
what did we learn tonight? was definitely fun but beyond that what were the takeaways?
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Bigger audience than we've had since food preservation topic (there are ppl out there who like to talk about food ;-) ). Great convo all around
- Joya Parsons
Takeaway #1 for me is that we can have these types of converations with people more in tune with what we call "conventional" ag without devolving into arguments. There is common ground
- Joya Parsons
i dont see that at all, there were what? 3 or 4 mainstream ag types around....and most of them were polite, but even Farmer Haley was trying to bait us.... i dont think there is common ground at all joya. i think we should do what we do and charge forward and not worry about agchat types....KyfarmersMatter tried to pick a personal fight with me in the middle of the convo...
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
I saw that, Zach. Yeah, from convos I've had on the side with #agchat folks, it's apparently the wrong strategy. I'm leaning toward charge ahead after this weekend.
- FairFoodFight
I missed that w/ KyFarmersMatter... you weren;t showing up on Tweetchat so I had to keep switching to TweetDeck to see what you were saying. Mike aside (yes, he was trying to bait) there were several "conventionals" there who really seemed interested. Yes, we keep charging ahead, but it's good to know that if we show the way, there are interested farmers willing to follow.
- Joya Parsons
Where does the animosity come from, anyway? Is profood cutting into conventional's action, or are you just hitting sensitive nerves?
- Brock Haffner
That is classic KYFarmers Zach. It's the split personality of that tweet.
- Brett Henderson
from email
I think it's a combo. FLOSS food and farming is still just a tiny percentage of total, but it's growing all the time. I think, especially with conventional farmers who may be struggling (like dairy, pork, cattle, etc) ProFood can seem like a threat.
- Joya Parsons
They are threatened. There is a movement building and they don't know what to do.
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
They are much better organized and led. They'll run right over us buddy. My advice is stay away
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
wow forgot profoodchat is public
- profood
Dang I like the tribe and tidal wave.
- Brett Henderson
from email
Brock we're hitting nerves. They are afraid we are just like animal rights groups. Not to mention most of us don't think the govt. Should be paying them to grow in unprofitable ways.
- Brett Henderson
from email
Profood is a tribalwave! (That's setting a really odd mental image to tromping through my head...)
- Brock Haffner
It might be cool to offer some articles in the weeklong build up to #profoodchat, so that people can discuss something tangible where terms have been pre-defined. Has that been tried?
- FairFoodFight
Tribalwave! Sounds like a Trance radio station...
- FairFoodFight
Has not been tried, sounds good. I'm taking topic suggestions over in ProFoodPro
- Joya Parsons
So conventional see profood as an adversary on two fronts; 1) we want to end what they do, and 2) we want to take away their money? I'd get touchy on someone, too, if I saw them that way. So is conventional the first audience we need to educate on who we are?
- Brock Haffner
no there is nothing to be done with regards to agchat...they are organized, smart and well led...but i havent learned anything from them in a good long time...we should just focus on profood and building that out...we are the future they are the past...thats all there is to it...they are david we are goliath...
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Sorry I missed all the excitement. Got a splitting headache. Spent 4 hours in a cold downpour getting apples for cider & pigs--my last chance b4 they go--and then tried to dry-off/warm up/make dinner b4 heading out at 5:30 to milk the cow in the rain/dark/etc..... Really wish I could have been here for the show I am being blamed for starting, sort of..... 8^D
- Neal Foley
Sure, Neal. Pick a fight and don't show up for it. Smooth. ;)
- Brock Haffner
Brock, I think consumers are our first audience. Farmers will follow what the customer dictates. Zach is onto something. Focus on building ProFood. If you build it, they will come, or something...
- Joya Parsons
@Zach Is it necessary to be adversarial? Most conventional farmers farm that way because that's how they were taught & how USDA pushes. (i.e. just don't know better / any other way) My sister's neighbor is transitioning. He understands the need, but it's a painful process.
- Brock Haffner
Conventional and us have the same audiance. Who can give real survivable long term answers is the question. Do you want a very small, and getting smaller group to Controll your food? Or do you want a say? Me Im growing most of my own, so I don't have to trust someone to do it for me. It's the simple motivating factor for me as the system is presently established. Could I change if the system does? Yes
- Brett Henderson
from iPhone
ur a dick
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
nope def not necesarry or useful to be adversarial, what is this in reference too? sorry got lots of convos going on
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
I agree we press forward and get the info out there, and make it attractive. Fact is, sustainable/local is roughly 1% of USDA output. By definition, growth is going to come from the other 99%.We'll take heat from people who see us as a threat (I totally underestimated how threatened conv ag folks feel, but I found out this weekend), but we'll reach the people who want to transition into a more economically sustainable style of farming.
- FairFoodFight
brock where did i recommend being adversarial"?
- Zachary Adam Cohen
David v. Goliath is adversarial. :)
- Brock Haffner
ah well, i am also saying that we should do our own thing and not engage agchat...so thats not very adversarial at all, i would call that more live and let live wouldn't you?
- Zachary Adam Cohen
What I was trying to say was: Educate consumers on what we do, educate conventional on who we are... With less resistance on our rear flank, we'll be able to move forward better & faster.
- Brock Haffner
sounds good to me
- Zachary Adam Cohen
fuck live and let live that is for babies we want to win. but this is not zero sum game. there are no losers with better food
- profood
well then who the heck is recommending we merge with agchat? seriously whats going on here?
- Zachary Adam Cohen
I'd agree with "just do it," but engagement is necessary for our own survival, let alone productivity. <<I just read that and didn't understand it. I appear to be getting slappy. I'm gonna step away from the keyboard. Come back later for my more coherent thoughts. ;) (sorry if I confused anybody with my rambling.)>>>
- Brock Haffner
how is that brock? ive wasted a lot of time engaging with agchat types, and after awhile i've come to the conclusion that i just wasnt learning anything from them,,,other people, notably Rob, came to the same conclusion...
- Zachary Adam Cohen
I have no idea what's going on here. I just hang out and do shots every time someone tweets "feed the world"
- Joya Parsons
and brock, i am very happy to have you here, but have you read the profood principles? have you read some official profood blog posts,,,some of the comments you've made tonight give me pause, like i said, i am inclusive by nature, but i feel like maybe you are not necessarily a profoodie, not that you have to be, this is a public chat...
- Zachary Adam Cohen
also your twitter handle is new to me...you seem to be pretty middle of the road, which is cool with me...
- Zachary Adam Cohen
what zach, brock started profoodchat
- profood
Umm! Zach. David won that fight.
- Brett Henderson
from email
yes i know...we are david they are goliath...we win in that scenario...i just dont think its time to pick the fight now with agchat...i think its time to focus on building our strengths and skills and stories and to garner support, then we pick the fight and roll right over them
- Zachary Adam Cohen
brock started profoodchat? what? what the heck am i missing here guys?
- Zachary Adam Cohen
New drinking game: shot every time Brian posts something incomprehensible. Huh?
- Joya Parsons
I think Brian's fucking with you, Zach.
- Joya Parsons
sorry mixed brock with brett. caste of characters
- profood
I'm new to it. I'm catching up. I'm a longtime foodservice guy who would like to start a farm, know some really good progressive farmers, keep up on organic, sustainable, yadda-yadda... So, no, I'm probably not as PROFOOD as y'all are, but I'm on your side.
- Brock Haffner
srsly i was starting to have serious acid flashbacks, you get the feeling that everyone is onto something and your somehow excluded...
- Zachary Adam Cohen
We're easily confused. And we're never in the same room together.
- Brock Haffner
I'm loving your drinking games, Joya. My only problem with them is that I'm out of tequila.
- Brock Haffner
ahh du'h everyone take drink
- profood
joya youre too much I love ya
- profood
brock thanks for the bio check, sounds good, as i said, happy to have you, im no radical absolutist, in fact very few of the profoodies i know are, though we get labeled and lumped in with nuts all the time by agchat types...i had one guy tell me my real agenda was to create a vegan culture in America...
- Zachary Adam Cohen
I like to play devil's advocate, so sometimes I sound like I'm coming at an argument from the wrong direction. My intent is to advance the cause by making it think.
- Brock Haffner
LOL. isn't it nice when a stranger tells you what your agenda is? "Oh, thanks! I couldn't remember what it was..."
- Brock Haffner
good angle to take brock, so you'll excuse me if i sounded defensive, i consider this a chat for profood people though anyone is welcome...anyway...regarding the agchat schmuck who told ME my real agenda was to create a vegan society, that was basically around the time that i decided that group had nothing to offer me personally...but ive never stepped in front of anyone who wanted to talk or engage with them, i think they are all lovely people, the agchat crew, with very few exception
- Zachary Adam Cohen
fyi i love meat, all forms, and when this cat said this to me, in all seriousness, my jaw was on the floor, they literally thought i was some radical loon who wanted to shut down their farms and rape their children or whatever...so weird
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Are you kidding? Zach it would have been way better for David if he could have sent the army in and hung back. No wimpy sling for me give me a cannon.
- Brett Henderson
from email
People have been saying my name Wrong my whole Life. Who Cares as long as they give me The money ;-)
- Brett Henderson
from email
Mmmmmmmmeat! Yeah, I hate those db's that know who you are, what you stand for and how you're going to ruin their lives [better than you do]. Way to encourage productive dialogue, idiot. (him, not you...;)
- Brock Haffner
I've had similar conversations, Zach. I'm always like, "WTF are you talking about? I just went out to the backyard & killed dinner with my bare hands!" But seems ag leadership somewhere has been indoctrinating farmers with the idea that anyone who opposes CAFOs is a crazy AR vegan who is going to set their house on fire.
- Joya Parsons
Hey, the moral of Dave and the giant pickle -- er, David & Goliath, is that faith in the process is what won the war. David didn't need an army, or even a single cannon. Though he did pick up a few extra rocks... :)
- Brock Haffner
and, with that inanity, I'm off to bed. Night, all.
- Brock Haffner
night brock! good to connect my friend
- Zachary Adam Cohen
And to you, sir. I'm myself assigning your blog as required reading this week. Next profoodchat, I'll be better informed of your undermining agenda. :) gone for real, now.
- Brock Haffner
Zach you disipoint me. Pork?
- Brett Henderson
from email
Too tired to comprehend here, off to bed. But I must ask, who is Brian?
- Carrie Oliver
@hungrygarden
- Joya Parsons
Thanks, Joya. Duh.
- Carrie Oliver
@brett just dont tell my rabbi ok? its pastured pork btw...oh wait go fuck yourself
- Zachary Adam Cohen
hahah
- Zachary Adam Cohen
LOL Zach
- Brett Henderson
from email
I love it... a "we feed the world" drinking game...only problem is my limit is 10 shots...I'm going under the table soon
- Neal Foley
from email
Zach, didnt realize I was baiting anybody. Next time I will try to be more constructive. enjoyed reading all your comments. BTW I do fully support a foodsystem like you all are trying to put together, I just get frustrated when I read things that look to demonize how I do it. I truly believe that there is and should be rooms for not only both our ways, plus that of other groups with different ideologies. Now for Joya -- Lets feed the world!
- Mike Haley
Jove to talk Brock G'nite
- Brett Henderson
from email
That's it! I'm under the table now. ;-) G.nite follks
- Joya Parsons
Wimp!!
- Brett Henderson
from email
I know, been on here before, Sundays are normally a bad time for me though
- Mike Haley
thanks mike, your inclusion here is great, welcome
- Zachary Adam Cohen
mike no biggie and perhaps you weren't trying to bait anyone, but regarding the discussion with organic, sustainable and factory farms i felt a familiar twinge of nervousness prick up... but it all ended all right
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
the nervousness did not come from me, it was in the fear that the convo would turn defensive. I am glad it did not. if you ask me, looking back at it, whoever made the factory farm statement was most likely trying to bait me to take a defense.
- Mike Haley
The folks in agchat who are farmers, even industrial ones, are not nessarily our enemies. They just have not recognized the situation they are in. It really is unsustainable, and therefore it will get to costly to continue in the way it is...Mike - the factory issue was me, and it's not about YOU personally OK? People need to grow up. We are talking about systems here, what is working...
more...
- Liz McLellan
Mike - I am not even remotely interested in 'baiting' those in agchat. I find that is the MO of many there. I find it very hard to have a serious discussion there, because of that dynamic. No one ever answers serious questions and they never fail to take a general question personally. If no sustainable agriculture people are asking it YOU are still going to need to ask yourself...Where...
more...
- Liz McLellan
mike, liz and i disagree on so much, and yet i completely sympathize with her comment above...as ive said, i haven't learned a thing from agchat in a long time. I think it is great that its there, super nice people, honorable people, but there is nothing there for someone like me, and for the most part, liz's criticisms are mine
- Zachary Adam Cohen
could be mike, happy we kept it cool and i think a great profoodchat tonight...thanks for participating
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
Liz, I don't think you understand that what you are saying seems very condescending to me personally. I truly value the land, our animals and the health of others -- many other farmers feel exactly the same. We are doing what we do with the future in mind to insure the land is here for our children, grandchildren and future generations. To suggest that the way we currently do things...
more...
- Mike Haley
Liz, Alot of time I feel that I have been "talked down to" or that the tone had gotten so negative about my practices, it is very hard to not get defensive sometimes. Many others have chosen to simply focus elsewhere, which is what it seems many in this group are doing. WHich may be productive for the larger groups, but personally I feel there is much to be learned by talking with people with different perspectives.
- Mike Haley
mike, again your taking it personally! just remove yourself from it, as liz said we are talking about national systems here...ur farm is going to destroy the earth and wreck the land. tens of thousands of farms like yours will...just stop taking it so personally... thats the only way we can have dialogue here
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
OK - Mike - How can I say this in a way you won't find condescending? Here's a try. A lot of Black people get into a situation where there is a need to discuss racism..which most will tell you is a fact of their lives everyday. Inevitably, a well intentioned white person will start to defend themselves, when in fact, the discussion is not about them or their behavior. IF the sock does...
more...
- Liz McLellan
sorry Zach, but how can I not take that personally? Its very condecending. BTW I dont destroy my land anymore than any profood farm does. I take care of it!
- Mike Haley
No Mike, I am talking to you like you are a grown man.
- Liz McLellan
liz, I wasnt referring to your comment, I edited it to make more sense
- Mike Haley
Gotcha Mike. - Amy you lay some very heavy stuff on your ten year old.
- Liz McLellan
Liz -- using your parable -- If I said that whites are racists, this would inlcude you right? would you get defensive if you were not racists? Therefore when a comment is made like zach did about that farms like mine are going to destroy the earth and wreck the land, (which it is not) wouldnt I have a reason to feel a bit upset?
- Mike Haley
mike its not condescending...its you
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
what i think is going on is this: you have a sneaking suspicion, getting stronger by the day, that there is something wrong with agriculture in America, and yet, you find yourself in the middle of it with several successful farms that require a lot of work, attention, are capital and labor intensive. You are a busy guy. And yet despite all this work that sneaking suspicion won't leave...
more...
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
before I read that above I need a shot to stay up -- "feed the world" ok, now I can get back to reading
- Mike Haley
its a doosy, gulp
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Good question mike..been in that situation many times, and because I know plenty of whites are very racist and because I know my own mind and behavior most of the time is conscientious and actively anti racist a lot of the time, I don't 'identify' with 'whites' but I've seen plenty of whites behaving in very racist manner - I understand where the suspiscion comes from - I trust when...
more...
- Liz McLellan
Amy - This is your problem. If you are sustainable in your practices - truly - then I am NOT talking about you...it's very simple. If you are not sustainable, then you have much bigger problems than feeling prickly about strangers who are not even talking to you on the internet.
- Liz McLellan
HA...but apparently Zach IS talking about you Mike. I will leave you two to deal with that....
- Liz McLellan
Zach -- thanks for telling me what I was thinking, I think we are back to the point were neither of us are leaning from each other. I need to finish up my work for the evening and call it a day
- Mike Haley
was just a creative thought
- Zachary Adam Cohen
i expect you to forget it and never think of it again
- Zachary Adam Cohen
have a good night sir
- Zachary Adam Cohen
lol, forget it, I couldnt read it. thats why I like twitter, my mind only thinks 140 at a time
- Mike Haley
Amy - nothing I am going to say is going to change how you hear me. That has been proven again and again.
- Liz McLellan
OK rereading this thread - I'm thinking 50% of the people are LIT like Chistmas trees tonight. Me sober as a judge, and feeling mighty left out. What the hell happened here people?
- Liz McLellan
All you can do is put it out there, amigos. Say what you know, offer lots of evidence, show people a doorway in, and the rest is up to them to decide how to approach this. There seems to be an expectation here idea that Pro Food is going to change minds online, in dialogue, in argument. It's off base (and that's a message for myself, too). It's going to happen offline, on tractors, in...
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- FairFoodFight
Great insight, Barth. Mike, I was the one who made the comment that on organic factory farm is still a factory farm. It wasn't meant to bait, but rather to call attention to the fact that the "organic" label doesn't automatically make a farm sustainable. I actually had Horizon organic milk in mind when I posted that as I had been reading up a little on them. I just wanted to point out...
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- Joya Parsons
In regards to the rising cost of fuel/oil... when gas was ~ $4/gal last year, my husband was interviewing a local farmer for an oral history project he's working on for our county century farmers. This farmer's one of the larger in the county, main crops are corn and soy. He was spending $30K per month in fuel costs alone! That can't continue for long without farmers taking a huge...
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- Joya Parsons
What are the stats now on calories in/calories out for the food system, BTW? Is it 10cal fossil fuel energy for every 1cal food energy produced? Anyone should be able to deduce that's not a very effective or efficient use of resources.
- Joya Parsons
interesting stat Joya, would like to see the data behind it. Thanks
- Mike Haley
The 10:1 stat comes from David Pimentel, prof of Ag at Cornell University. Paper on fossil fuels & ag: http://dieoff.org/page69.htm Pimentel's CV http://www.entomology.cornell.edu/Faculty...
- Joya Parsons
Hey Joya - Thank you. That level of detail is very important. Let's all be sure when ever possible to talk in specifics. The generalities get everyone in trouble. For the record, I am not a doctrinaire vegan socialist. I like meat, I think capitalism is the only system that has the dynamism necessary to get us out of the triple threat crisis we are in... socialism with be the fall back...
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- Liz McLellan
The Future of the Sustainable Food movement- next steps in the Good Food Revolution! Continuation of the October 25th Twitter ProFoodChat.
First issue to take up- Zach's idea of a combined blog for sustainable food issues- a great idea! Let's discuss who will manage/own, how will we pay? How will we promote?
- Joya Parsons
Another issue- definition of sustainability. What make food/farming sustainable?
- Joya Parsons
why is def of sustain so important. Sustain to me is like the illusive perpetual motion machine. Sustain is sys that needs no outside inputs or am I wrong
- profood
No, sustainable inputs are just renewable. No farm is an island, but all trade needs to be from other sustainable sources.
- Brock Haffner
I think we have to define it, as true sustainability activists have and NOT let it be distorted as 'organic' has... otherwise...there is no point in continuing.
- Liz McLellan
so as long as input is sustainable the whole sys is sustainable?
- profood
I wanted to take of my moderator hat and expand a little on the issue of GMOs and sustainability. I am going to go out on a limb and say, personally, if a GMO crop came out tomorrow that gave greater yields, better disease resistance, better nutrition or drought resistance, if it was available to ALL farmers at an affordable price, if it did not require the application of tons of...
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- Joya Parsons
Is a CAFO that uses captured methane sustainable?
- Liz McLellan
better committees then us have tacked definition . . . what is their product
- profood
@joya Technically speaking, Hybrid -is- GMO. So I agree with your point on that caveat.
- Brock Haffner
Its possible to leave land in better shape than when you found it through a variety of agroecological practices. This to me is sustainability, which would rule out CAFOs that capture methane.
- Dawn Gifford
@liz Not on that basis alone. It would be a step toward, tho.
- Brock Haffner
No, no, no Brock. Hybrids are sexually reproduced between plants of the same species. GMOs are trangenic, laboratory created organisms. BIG BIG difference there
- Joya Parsons
Agreed Joya - my problem is not with all GMOs but the way GMOs have been deployed in late stage capitalism to further cordon off and privatize our ability to feed ourselves without a capital intensive intermediary charging us an arm and a leg. GMOs (as currenlty deplyed) are not about 'feeding the world' but about privatizing the ability to do so, so that a few very large multinationals control the food supply.
- Liz McLellan
To me the achilles heel part of gmos is the patentable aspect. Just doesn't seem rite and some are suspecting don't really work for things as higher layered as software so how could work at more rudimentary level
- profood
@Joya, I would add to that "what would make GMOs ok" list one other thing: assurance that pollen drift would not affect the livelihood of other farmers cultivating non GMO, nor create mutant species or superweeds.
- Dawn Gifford
Don't think a CAFO can ever be sustainable b/c of the inputs needed to feed the livestock alone. Not to mention the ethical question
- Joya Parsons
Brock - Joya is right and in general that fudging of definitions is purposefully confusing people and the issue...Scientists are supposed to do the opposite.
- Liz McLellan
GMO is not necessarily transgenic. Artificial selection over long periods of time give equivalent result as GMO. The benefit of lab-produced GMO is shorter time investment, less loss to experimental crops. I fear, to no end, transgenic species of all stripes. That's a box Pandora wouldn't open.
- Brock Haffner
I'd like everyone to read Bill Joy's The Future Doesn't Need Us. No Luddite, He.
- Liz McLellan
Brock- the definition of Genetically Modified Organism is one that has been altered using recombinant DNA tech. Hybrids do not fit that definition. It's an important distinction to make
- Joya Parsons
I agree on the distinction. The intent and end are similar, though the process is not. The benefit of selective breeding and hybridization is that nature makes sure that the species won't go "frankensteinian." I dislike GMO because scientists don't consider the ramifications of the modifications they are making.
- Brock Haffner
@profood Personally, I disagree with being able to patent anything that can reproduce or be used as food.
- Brock Haffner
Part of the problem with this whole GMO conversation is that we are assuming we must continue to grow, wheat corn and soy as staple crops. We don't. Other crops may not be as poular now but can become the new staples. History didn't stop for us mankind used to adapt to the enviroment or move on. We assume we can nowmake it adapt to us.
- Brett Henderson
from iPhone
True, Brett. But we're seeing GMOs in all areas now. There's papayas, beets, eggplant on the market right now and many more coming. They will leave no GMO stone unturned unless we can turn the tide.
- Joya Parsons
I call that the "hairless monkey" problem. At some point, we lost our hair, figured out how to make clothing, and decided that we no longer needed to adapt to our environment. We've been working on "fixing" the world ever since. Stupid hairless monkeys.
- Brock Haffner
Did I just kill *another* thread? /hangs head...
- Brock Haffner
Threadkiller!!! Haha! Just kidding. Think everyone went to bed. ;-)
- Joya Parsons
BTW, here's the link to ProFood principles by Rob that I was looking for in the middle of chat http://everytable.wordpress.com/2009...
- Joya Parsons
Crap Joya I've noticed tweeps on the east coast don't sleep. Gone to bed?
- Brett Henderson
from email
Just joking Brett. Don't know where they've gone. I'm a East Coast tweep... I don't hit the hay til the witching hour.
- Joya Parsons
Sleep? That's what happens when you run out of coffee, right? It's ... been a while. :)
- Brock Haffner
Oh, and thanks for the link. That's great. I'm gonna pass it on to my (offline) farmin' friends.
- Brock Haffner
Yeah I've noticed that Joya I'm usually checking out before you. Maybe it's the get up at 4:30 thing for me.
- Brett Henderson
from email
Oh! This may be my problem Brock, I switch from Irish coffee to just Irish at 8:00. Purity is important
- Brett Henderson
from email
LOL! 0800: Coffee 1400: Irish Coffee 2000: Irish. Repeat.
- Brock Haffner
brock whats your twitter handle?
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Sure that darn coffee keeps contaminating my Irish
- Brett Henderson
from email
@Zach - I'm madbadger2742.
- Brock Haffner
Oh HI madbadger!!! are you a #madmen friend too...
- Liz McLellan
No, Liz, I don't have cable. :( The nick is about 15 years old.
- Brock Haffner
Next week - How about we discuss The Precautionary Principle ? http://www.sehn.org/precaut... #profoodchat
Does anyone have any specific questions they would like to see asked in tonight's ProFoodChat?
1. should there be a community group blog, who will run and manage it, own it? 2. should we elect one blog post a week as the featured piece and push it hard through ALL means? 3. Should we continue to engage Agchat or once and for all leave them be and develop our own group more 4. Should we have a more active recruitment effort
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
Great! Got 'em.
- Joya Parsons
I may not be there tonight... I've been looking at tools and would love to set us up on WordPress using buddypress and WP MU (Wordpress multi user) - How will we pay for hosting etc? I would love to do this.
- Liz McLellan
What time are you guys starting (PST?)
- Liz McLellan
liz we reminded people about fifty times that it was EST...cmon man, get your act together, we need you and your audience and your input!
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Liz i think WP MU is a great option, dawn gifford has offered to give us and design a site based on various wordpress themes she owns, including the one noursihed kitchen uses which is amazing http://nourishedkitchen.com/
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Jonathan Bloom, of @WastedFood blog, shares tips on how to keep from having so much food waste - around 40% in US alone! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecca...
Video story on doctor/farmer who embraced Steiner's biodynamic principles for his vineyard. Through his medical practice of healing people in a non-traditional Western way, he saw a need to change the way he farmed to increase the health of his vines. http://digg.com/environ...
Just back from spending a couple of days on a SD farm - where 90% of farmers in Potter county use no-till as a regular farming practice. Dan Forgey wanted to take it up a notch and introduced cover cropping...and came away with good results. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecca...
He is still experimenting with rotations and diversity, but is learning more each season. This is just a short text piece - a video will follow in the weeks to come. -Rebecca
- Cooking Up a Story
Great article, Rebecca! This is what I don't understand about the "nitrogen problem." We've known forever that we can use legumes (like lentils) to fix nitrogen in the soil. Why don't more farmers take advantage of it? We need more creativity and pioneers like Dan to lead the way!
- Joya Parsons
All I can figure - and some of this comes from the farmers themselves - is that they/we bought into the talk. I'm hoping with education (and a lot of hutzpah) we'll slowly (but not too slow) dig ourselves out of this mess. I'll be working on a how-to 'cover crop in a no-till system' in the weeks to come. Hopefully other farmers will consider it. I was amazed at those who had had increased their yields and spent less on (outside) inputs.
- Cooking Up a Story
we're using red clover! it lasts for 12 years if you don't till it under & makes 3 tons of hay an acre! crazy times!
- Heather Walters
Love the red clover fields - so beautiful...and useful! Do you cut them before they go to seed?
- Cooking Up a Story
we're going to graze part and make hay & maybe seed - tbd!
- Heather Walters
is profood chat happening?
No interest tonight. Back at regularly scheduled bat-time & bat-channel next Sunday to talk about future of the local foods movement.
- Joya Parsons
Feel free to pimp the chat during the week if ya want. We were planning on talking about you anyway (or at least your Tipping Point and Social Media blog posts
- Joya Parsons
Just got back from the drive. What a NY football game can stop the chat? Who cares about NY teams anyway? The Niners had this week off everybody should be available
- Brett Henderson
from iPhone
Don't know what was up with tonight, Brett. Only had one person show up after 20 minutes. I know it's been slow today, but geez...
- Joya Parsons
i think we need to recognize that we have some excitement issues...and put our heads together to solve this...there are creative solutions out there...i will smoke some pot and come up with some ;)
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
Ok will pimp away this week.
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
We'll pump it all week. That may keep everyone up to speed. I've always thought the time was bad for west coaster but it has seemed to be working. Who knows?
- Brett Henderson
from email
I suggest crystal meth instead of pot. Much more results-oriented. I hear it's what all the fortune 500 CEOs are smoking these days...
- Joya Parsons
First things first we should invite me using google calendar and set email reminders
- Zachary Adam Cohen
from email
Done
- Joya Parsons
A Social Media Strategy for the Local Foods Movement - http://www.zacharyadamcohen.com/farmtot...
would love to hear everyone's take on this, a new blog post on developing a coherent and organized social media strategy for the local foods movement
- Zachary Adam Cohen
btw ive now added friendfeed and invited the public to join profood chat...are we not changing the name to The Jungle? i think we should
- Zachary Adam Cohen
BTW I really liked this ZAC - RTed it yesterday
- Heather Walters
Funny, while I haven't yet read the post I was just in the process of writing a new thread saying we need to form an advisory board and more coordinated social media/other programs. Okay, off to read the post.
- Carrie Oliver
Fiesta Farms: Keeping It Local in the Great White North - http://www.zacharyadamcohen.com/farmtot...
a wonderful story about a local green grocer in Canada that resisted the push over the years towards commodity food, and is now experiencing a renaissance in brand equity! ProFood all the way!
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Great post. Left a comment. My usual complaint that there's no good retailer anywhere near my home. Hint hint, Mr. Smart.
- Carrie Oliver
Fwd: Rodney Strong Vineyards Becomes Sonoma County's First Carbon Neutral Winery
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