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Jay Cuthrell › Likes
Looks like the connection between FriendFeed and Twitter is no longer real-time. Wonder who is to blame?
Steven Perez, Darren Heydon, Kol Tregaskes and 20 other people liked this
I think it's been that way for a while.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
It has been wildly inconsistent lately. Sometimes it is right on time, other times there is a major delay.
- Rob Diana
Paul Bucheit wrote that they no longer had access to Twitter's firehose, so it sounds like it may have had something to do with Facebook's acquiring them, but don't quote me on that.
- Jorge Escobar
it's weird that twitter signed a deal to give access to google and bing, but friendfeed seems to have lost that deal.
- gregory
Paul or Bret: what is the latest status please?
- Steve Gillmor
The latest status? They're busy working valiantly on mincing the glory of their FriendFeed UI into the horror show that is Zuckerberg's Facebook UI.
- Akiva Moskovitz
from here to Twitter things are going live
- Johni Fisher
It was mentioned previously as being an issue with Twitter. They are polling now.
- Louis Gray
what? It's OK now? Or is it true that "Paul Bucheit wrote that they no longer had access to Twitter's firehose, so it sounds like it may have had something to do with Facebook's acquiring them, but don't quote me on that. - Jorge Escobar" -
- Steve Gillmor
I am trying to locate the conversation where he said this. But it's clear that Twitter is not giving FF the firehose for *some* reason. And they still aren't.
- Jorge Escobar
"The Twitter issue is a separate problem Jorge -- our realtime feed from them is gone, but we hope to get it restored soon. - Paul Buchheit" on Oct 26, 2009 http://friendfeed.com/paul...
- Micah Wittman
Parse that as you will.
- Micah Wittman
Awesome Micah, I was going nuts for a while. So without going to speculation what do you make of "Twitter's realtime feed from them is gone"? Is it scalability issues? But Google and Bing have no problems?
- Jorge Escobar
It's speculation, but I think it's Twitter saying "Ooopsy, now how did that happen? We'll put Top Men on it." and a Friendfeed Alum with "we hope to get it restored" as technically true, but belying that they know or suspect it's a TWTR business decision dragging-of-the-feet and not merely technical. But this can all be cleared up with an official statement :) Maybe I missed it - if so I apologize for wild speculation.
- Micah Wittman
Thanx Micah, Jorge. We'll wait for the update from Paul or Bret.
- Steve Gillmor
Sounds good :)
- Micah Wittman
I wasn't seeing updates from Twitter to Friendfeed for 12 hours, but a manual refresh works ok. It is interesting to note the differences in 'real time' for Friendfeed, Twitter and FaceBook they all behave differently - only one of them seems to be 'real' real time -\
- Chris Loft
Go Neil, Go! - http://imgur.com/Yy0Bv.gif
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Aman Mahal, Flavio Santos, Erhan Kayakuş and 330 other people liked this
My dance style is similar to Elmo's.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
FUCKYEAHNEILPATRICKHARRIS!
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
hhaha
- Alan Le
I also make love similar to how Elmo is dancing. 0.o
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
Jonathan, are you trying to get me to spit my drink all over my iPhone?
- Josh Haley
*elmo laugh*
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
The sensual side of grand mal seizures.
- Christopher Harley
wth Jon wth
- Alfredo
But no one makes love like Neil Patrick Harris is dancing? FAIL!
- Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕
My brother in law in the Philippines can't be dissuaded from naming his son Elmo. I hope that unborn boy is ready to be tormented for the rest of his life. Why do parents do that to their kids?
- Bradley Farless
They just. don't. get. tired.
- Josh Haley
That's me after about 12 beers.
- Michael McKean
That's awesome!
- Jim Graham
LMFAO
- Danny Minick
Yes!
- Nicholas Kreidberg
hahah... this is going to be my best of the day!
- AJ Batac
...he'll never live that Doogie Howser thing down this way. .LOLz
- .LAG liked that
Wait till Pea sees this. If there was a way to make a animated GIF a background.. :)
- CW™
Win.
- Louis Gray
This needs to pop up in my feed a lot more than the 4 Asian nipple lickers.
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
Make it so.
- Josh Haley
CW: There is... (active desktop, IIRC).
- Tanath
Liking this even more for the fact that their dancing was synced with my music for a little bit
- Tamara
NPH = the awesomest.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
So cute.
- Ayşe E.
Barney'e bak sen :S
- OnuRC
;)
- Josh Haley
la-la la lah la-la la lah elmo's world... la-la la lah la-la la lah ELMO's world... elmo loves his goldfish and crayons, too...
- Trish Haley
Call me crazy, but I want someone to superimpose Hugh Laurie's face on NPH just to watch him dance...
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Crazy!
- Josh Haley
LOL Tina.
- Trish Haley
Awesome!
- Christian (Simply X)
The gif fills me with delight....always! :)
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
Doogie's gay!? *shock*
- Nathalie, Dreamer of FF
DANCE BARNEY DANCE
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
yeah! whip it baby! whip it good!
- AJ Batac
hot. Elmo, that is. hot.
- anna sauce
Don't you wish your monster was hot like me? Don't you?
- Josh Haley
AWESOME!
- David Cook
++ Josh
- Rachel Lea Fox
I feel like dancing now. Oh OH OH OH yeah!
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
Dancing meme, Jonathan? http://friendfeed.com/haggis...
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
Hell Yeah.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
*OOOO* He's probably my favorite celebrity/actor. Love love LOVE him! NPH ftw!! *dance dance*
- D. Eda Goze
Here's the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Ken Sheppardson
旁边那个布偶一直在上下晃脑袋
- K.D.
Is there a party in his tummy? So yummy! So yummy! (yes, I know that's from a different show)
- Kevin Sablan
发现这是伍佰TX的花朵舞啊！！flower dance~~
- K.D.
:))))
- فائزه
He is seriously working it :D
- Joe Dawson
Forgive me. It's been 3 hours since the last comment.
- Josh Haley
I've seen this so many times today and I laugh every time I see it. I really don't think it could get old.
- Tracy McLaughlin
that's why it's the best of day
- Alfredo
hahahaah!
- Carmen
I haven't seen this enough today.
- Michael McKean
ای بابا 1248 کیلوبایت از پهنای باند منو خوردی
- egza
f*ck yeah!
- Richard ¿digame? Walker
3 more likes and we hit 200. C'mon now...
- Josh Haley
200! yay! Thanks Bryce, Mel and Mr. Robot!
- Josh Haley
go elmo, go elmo...!
- imabonehead
Still happenin'!
- Christopher Harley
I can't let you kill this thread, Harley.
- Josh Haley
Once NPH and Elmo stopped dancing and it was sad, so they just decided to be awesome and dance instead. True story.
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
Still dancing....
- Mathew A. Koeneker
they're tireless.
- Alejandro
You know, in my heart I hope that people like NPH who seem just so damn awesome on the screen are just as cool in real life. Anyone met the fellow in person?
- Adam Lasnik
I'm sure he's a decent guy. Never met him, though.
- Josh Haley
But he sure can dance, just look at him go!
- Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕
Dr Horrible cuttin the rug LOL
- martha
This gif just doesn't stop making me smile. :-)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
grind
- Josh Haley
i watch Sesame Street every weekday morning with my kids and he's been on several times. always awesome.
- Joe Silence is not dead
It's been too long.
- Josh Haley
He's dancing in time with the song I'm listening to (Post Service - Sleeping in).
- Yolanda
I planned that just for you, Yolanda. :)
- Josh Haley
Yay! Thanks, Josh. I feel speshul. <3
- Yolanda
You awww! You awww! </Marissa Tomei from My Cousin Vinnie>
- Josh Haley
wanted to see this again :D
- Alfredo
hell yeah
- Josh Haley
Nothing about this .gif ceases to bring me smiles. :-)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
It's time.
- Josh Haley
There should be more Elmo. Elmo has the power of ten kittehs
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
Bump! Cause you havn't seen this enough. :D
- CW™
they don't stop!
- docrivs
Bump for the Fun of it.. :P
- CW™
w00t
- Josh Haley
Ah, man, I can't like this again. :(
- Alix Whitmire
so funny!
- barbarars
So sexay.
- Spidra Webster
Love him when he's unicorn watching.
- Gabrielle V
Okay, I swear I am not just pimpin' good swing music, but I was looking at this GIF and listening to this song - http://lala.com/zPe9 ("Billie's Bounce" performed live by Buddy Rich) - and it matches! :o
- Adam Lasnik
^____^
- Josh Haley
This still makes me laugh.
- Christian (Simply X)
w00t
- Josh Haley
Much love for NPH, I think he is awesomeness personified
- arekayelle
1 more like to get to 300.
- Josh Haley
YAY! Over 300 likes! It's my first time, was it good for you?
- Josh Haley
bump
- Amber, Random Time Lord
Gross. I just unliked to be contrary. Yet another reason why I pulled back from FriendFeed. And why getting swallowed up by Facebook, the great leveler, couldn't make more sense.
- Rick Powell
That's right, all you horrible time-wasters you! Get back to talking about kernels and APIs! Have you no Protestant work-ethic? /sarcasm
- Neal Jansons
More power to ya, Rick.
- Josh Haley
por eso es que friendfeed le podria ganar a twitter, porque las opciones no son tan limitadas, jajajajaja
- Ferzvladimir
keep on with the force don't stop... don't stop til you get enough
- docrivs
needed to see this again ^_^
- Alfredo
YAY!
- Josh Haley
Woot Woot...go elmo go elmo...!!!
- Bill Heslin
Go Go!
- Lindsey is Fierce!
HA! This is funny no matter how many times you see it! =)
- David Cook
GO GO
- Lindsey is Fierce!
NPH was great on the Emmy awards tonight.
- Josh Haley
Josh, agreed!
- imabonehead
Dancing Elmo and NPH....yes..yes..bring it Friendfeed. :-)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
AND THE PARTY DON'T STOP 'TIL 6 IN THE MORNING!
- Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕
actually the party won't stop...ever
- Alfredo
bump
- Alfredo
w00t
- Josh Haley
FTW!
- Jay
Dude would you just start up Skype, Ustream and call Johnny, already?
- CW™
party elmo is partying
- Alfredo
ha ha, Thanks CW but no can do right now.
- Josh Haley
Hell yes!
- Nicholas Kreidberg
I guess that is where God took him.............
- VAL D.
This thread must NEVER die
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
he's baaaaaaaaaaack!
- Richard ¿digame? Walker
Dance, dance, dance.
- Jason Huebel
sregex - Project Hosting on Google Code - http://code.google.com/p...
Onur Gündüz, Jay Cuthrell, directeur and Tracy liked this
Cool!
- Brett Slatkin
Absolutely!
- directeur
Would love to pretend this was all me but really it was all @jayzombie
Baboon, Mark Douglass, Paul Stamatiou and 13 other people liked this
ha
- sean percival
Foursquare lets you take photos now?
- Michelle McCormack
michelle - only of yourself when you look like the mascot on halloween (ha ha no, that's just my mad photoshop skillz)
- MG Siegler
Awesome!!
- Andrew
this costume crashes too much
- sean percival
This is an awesome photo! I wonder...eerie that they look way too similar. LOL!
- Kenneth
thanks kenneth took a few poses to get it just right
- MG Siegler
dear lord. that's really good.
- Andy Brett
Nice!!!
- Garin Kilpatrick
Let the bass kick! - http://dreammm.posterous.com/let-the...
Jay Cuthrell liked this
Posted via email from dreammm's posterous
- krystynchong
from Posterous
On Tech Blogs As Frat Parties - http://parislemon.com/2009...
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Jay Cuthrell and Mona Nomura liked this
I digg your parislemon posts - especially the ones from back in the day. These days your Tweets represent you and I'm sorry (well not really) but they make you seem kinda douchey. :|
- Mona Nomura
Alternate photo platitude suggestion when reading "Asian Boobs": http://ff.im/1hqgl (currently over 1000 FF comments)
- Jay Cuthrell
twitter lists are a nail in the coffin for feed readers. I've checked @christine/news more in 24 hrs than netvibes in 24 wks.
Jay Cuthrell liked this
"Blue Cross sent me a postage-prepaid postcard to send to my Senator opposing a Public Option" (PICS) - Democratic Underground - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss...
Laura (hear me raura?), Michael Muller, Jay Cuthrell and 98 other people liked this
"So I'm using Blue Cross's postage to send MY message. Thanks Blue Cross for the postage."
- April Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
Ingenious.
- Maxamad
The postcard says "Postage will be paid by addressee", which implies it's the senator who will be paying the postage. Of course, the senator's franking privileges may make it so that the taxpayers pay the postage.
- Gabe
True. But why is it that the Senator Hagan/taxpayers should be paying for Blue Cross' message?
- Christopher Chung
My friend did this, too. I hope I get one in the mail.
- Ayşe E.
They haven't sent me one of these, but when they do, I'll be sure to mail it in unmodified (or with a big "NO ON PUBLIC OPTION" written on it, perhaps). The very notion of government run health insurance is a travesty that will end up bankrupting this country.
- Otto
So you don't think Medicare or the Veterans Health Administration is going to pan out, even after all these years?
- Mark Trapp
Medicare and the VA system are living proof of my statements. They offer crappy service and are continually costing more and more as time goes on. They are unsustainable in the long term, and basically expanding these failures to cover everybody is only going to accelerate the problem.
- Otto
What's long term? The VA system has been going since 1778, and Medicare since 1965. Are you thinking at the 300 year mark, they'll finally collapse?
- Mark Trapp
Right on! Good for you! That's a great idea
- Ciaoenrico
Our Canadian single-payer health care has been going strong for some time now with no risk of bankruptcy. I'd like to see some evidence that our system is unsustainable.
- Matt Mastracci
The VA system is garbage, ask any veteran who has to use it on a regular basis. And medicare is on the verge of bankruptcy, and has been for at least decade now. Last I checked, medicare was the biggest drain of tax revenue that exists. Predictions I've seen give it 10 more years, tops, even with restructuring.
- Otto
What Matt said.
- Nathalie, Dreamer of FF
Love this post.
- Trish R
That's awesome!
- Jan Ole Peek
Of course, the assertion that government-run health insurance is unsustainable (whether Medicare, the VA, the Canadian system, or any other) raises the question of what system is more sustainable than government-run insurance. It's certainly not the current American one. ... I love April's use of the mailer.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of health care reform... But insurance reform is unnecessary. The problem is not the insurance companies, their reactions and bad-behaviors are created by the high cost of medical care to begin with. Fix the health care system to not cost so damn much, and the problems with insurance will solve themselves. Strike at the source of the problems, not at the consequences of them.
- Otto
Otto: Insurance causes high prices of medical care. Since you don't pay, the hospital can set its prices arbitrarily high and the insurance company pays whatever its maximum is. Since the insurance company pays so much, they have to have high insurance rates, which makes insurance expensive to buy. If the government had their own insurance, they would be big enough to demand low prices,...
more...
- Gabe
That's insane. The existence of insurance does not cause the high price of medial care. You have it exactly backwards. Furthermore, the idea of a government-run-insurance plan would not solve that problem, if it was at all the truth, because you're dealing with a supply demand situation. The government run plan could say they weren't going to pay above $X, at which point the medical...
more...
- Otto
The truth is that most of the waste in medical costs comes from two places: administrative overhead and fraud. Both of these are primarily caused by Medicare and the bureaucracy surrounding it.
- Otto
Otto: Why is that you keep ignoring all the evidence from other countries that support national health care (e.g. http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues...) and you also keep ignoring the facts that show that medicare has lower costs that private insurance (e.g. http://www.cms.hhs.gov/Nationa... )
- Robert Felty
@Otto - why do you think there is so much administrative overhead? To deal with all the different insurance companies and the reems of paperwork to get a claim approved and avoid malpractice suits. That means more people have to be hired and trained just to deal with all that stuff and more systems and processes have to be put in place to handle it all. Insurance companies make more...
more...
- Her Lindsay-ness
@Lindsay: I know several people who work in administrative roles in hospitals. Not one of them agrees with you. The problem isn't the insurance forms and such, those are fairly standard. Almost all of the administrative overhead is due specifically to Medicare. And no, I do not work in the health insurance industry, so your ad-hominem attack makes no sense whatsoever. Why is it that...
more...
- Otto
@Robert: I'm not ignoring evidence from other countries, I'm discounting most of it based on facts that contradict the ones you are linking to. And Medicare has lower costs than private insurance because it rarely pays for anything. How many people who have medicare must also have their own insurance in order to get proper medical treatment? Have you looked up the numbers on that?
- Otto
Otto, how does limiting the pricing result in providers refusing service? In Canada, the Federal Government sets the pricing schedule, but the private providers are still here, providing us good service for a set fee. More info on our system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... I would say that our health care system is an excellent counterpoint to "if you fix the fees at a certain point, providers will stop providing service".
- Matt Mastracci
Otto - would you care to share some references which contain the facts that contradict those which I shared? I am open-minded, but I need to see actual data from credible sources to form my opinions.
- Robert Felty
How does Otto make the claim that insurance isn't even part of the problem when medical loss ratios in the health insurance business have dropped from 95% to 80% in just 15 years? (and if you don't know what that means, you don't have an informed opinion about health care reform.)
- Andrew C
I am always amazed at the ignorance of those arguing against public health care services when practically the entire world is doing it and they always have their facts wrong about Medicare and every other system. They'll become advocates when they or their loved ones are being evicted or foreclosed upon while they are dying an excruciating and untreated death.
- Brad Nickel
Otto, just exactly how many veterans have you actually talked to? The VA definitely has flaws, but all the veterans I've talked to seem to like the service provided, and often compare it favorably to the private sector. And why are all those people out there so opposed to changing Medicare if it's so terrible? Since you've stated you haven't seen a doctor in decades, how could you possibly have any experience with any health care system whatsoever?
- Victor Ganata
FFS... @Matt: Canada has a lower doctor to patient ratio than anybody else does, and it's decreasing all the time. @Robert: You have Google. Use it. I wouldn't believe links you provide me, so why should you believe links I provide you? Do your own research and make up your own mind. I'm not trying to convince you or anybody else, and I frankly don't care what you believe. @Andrew C:...
more...
- Otto
*shrug* I'm supposed to be swayed by second-hand anecdotal evidence from someone who doesn't have any recent direct experience with any health care system? If you don't care, why do you continue to post?
- Victor Ganata
*shrug* I'm supposed to be swayed by somebody who actually has a vested interest in the health care system (ie, a doctor)? See, I can use fallacious arguments as well as you can, Victor! ;) Also, I post to express my opinions and ideas. Why else would anybody post anything?
- Otto
Otto, your facts on doctor:patient ratio are incorrect. Our ratio is 2.2 per 1000, versus 2.4 per 1000 in the USA. In fact, our ratio has improved from 2.1 in the 1990s. While our doctor:patient ratio is not as high as other public health care systems, it isn't far off that of the USA.
- Matt Mastracci
Here's my reference: http://www.oecd.org/dataoec... "Between 1990 and 2007, the number of doctors per capita remained relatively stable in Canada"
- Matt Mastracci
Otto, but, fair is fair, so long as you don't pretend your anecdotes are generalizable truth, I won't pretend mine are either. It is clear that you do have quite a grasp on fallacious arguments. :) And I do agree that it's important to consider the source of your evidence.
- Victor Ganata
Otto, the dropping medical loss ratio specifically means an increasing share of premiums isn't going towards paying for health care; that is /by itself/ inherently bad! In an actual working market, advances in efficiency, if any, would be passed along to the consumers in the form of lower premiums. Instead, prices are getting jacked up even faster than health care inflation because the health care insurance industry exploits monopoly power.
- Andrew C
@Matt: According to the WHO: http://nofearsingapore.blogspot.com/2007... the numbers are slightly different. Close, admittedly. However, the important thing to note is that Canada's ratio is the lowest among almost all industrialized countries, which was my point. I was not comparing to the US, specifically.
- Otto
@Andrew C: I understand what "medical loss ratio" means. I understand what "profit" and "premiums" are. What I don't understand is why you think a company should not be allowed to make a legitimate profit? Insurance is gambling. If you don't like the bet, then don't gamble. Or, if you really want to see the loss ratios decrease, then ALLOW COMPETITION. Currently there is virtually no...
more...
- Otto
You make no sense. A company should certainly be allowed to make a legitimate profit, but indefinitely extracting rent at this level is a clear symptom of market-setting power. Trying to call one the other doesn't actually make them the same thing. Also, people can only reasonably get it from their employer _because that's the only affordable option_. Individual insurance exists; it's...
more...
- Andrew C
I find it pretty funny BTW that you have implicitly agreed with the rest of us that the health care _insurance_ industry actually is part of the problem.
- Andrew C
"Insurance is gambling. If you don't like the bet, then don't gamble." It shouldn't have to be a game. Everyone is going to need medical attention at some point in their life. It's a matter of how you will be able to afford to pay for it. People pay for insurance because it's the only way they can afford to ensure that their health will be taken care of. It's not really an option if you...
more...
- Her Lindsay-ness
lolling at the "insurance is a gamble" statement. Classic.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
It's the conservative message: You're On Your Own.
- Andrew C
For the record, I'm not a conservative. I'm also not a liberal. I'm a person, with my own opinions and ideas. Labeling people only means that you're not paying attention to what they're saying.
- Otto
@Andrew C: Individual insurance is priced out of the market because of regulations limiting what kinds of plans can be offered. Why can I not a health insurance plan for, say, emergencies only? I'm healthy, I don't have any need to go to the doctor much, I never get sick, the only reason I'd need to do so would be an accident. So why can't I buy that insurance? State regulations...
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- Otto
@Lindsay: Your statements are provably false. Not everyone is going to need medical attention at some point in their lives. Furthermore, if your statement was true, health insurance would not work at all, since the entire point of "insurance" is to spread risk. If risk was 100%, as you claim, then there's nothing to spread. For the record, I do not currently have, nor need, health...
more...
- Otto
So basically you're gambling, hoping that you will "win the game". At what point do you decide you need insurance? And hopefully you don't get anything before then. It is pointless to argue with someone like this, just let him enjoy his smug satisfaction on having figured out the whole mess.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Everyone has some chance of getting hit by a bus or eating E.coli tainted food or having a tree branch fall on them. {shrug}
- Andrew C
Except for the winners who have somehow divined ways not to do so, I guess.
- Andrew C
@Otto, your claim about emergencies-only plans being ruled out seems incorrect to me: http://www.insurance.com/health-...
- Andrew C
Otto is completely right. Insurance, not having insurance, it's all gambling. What's relevant is regulation limits choices; or forces one person's judgement and preferences on another. Big government healthcare won't work because the government can't do anything well because unlike a market it doesn't have distributed knowlege and I don't think the incentives are right. Witness the UK's...
more...
- Rob Fisher
While I don't know if we're using the word catastrophe in the same way, clearly there are policies that have very high deductibles where realistically, the only time they would pay benefits would be if you ended up hospitalized. And there are plenty of policies that don't cover preventative care at all. Even these types of policies are out of the reach of quite a few Americans.
- Victor Ganata
What a silly response Otto. Its all emotional. Why do you think the argument here is so passionate? The fact that you would even dismiss it that way tells me everything I need to know about your point of view and existence. Sad.
- Brad Nickel
from email
If "the government can't do anything well" why do they even exist? Unless you're an anarchist, I can't see how it makes sense.
- Victor Ganata
There are limited things governments might be good at. Defense of the realm; keeping the peace. They are not good at providing goods and services. When they try to provide (or control the supply of) food, for example, you get famine. That's because you need market signals to stimulate [the right amount of] supply [and demand<delete], and that information is not centralised. The same problem affects government supplied healthcare. Hence waiting lists.
- Rob Fisher
We have waiting lists now. In what way are the NHS's waiting lists worse than the delays caused by having to argue with insurance companies to get coverage for diagnostic tests, procedures, and specialist referrals?
- Victor Ganata
Because the latter involves the invisible hand somehow!
- Andrew C
It's hard to say. I'm not arguing that you don't have a problem, just that more government isn't the solution. E.g. on the NHS you often end up paying for your own treatment anyway just so you get it in time. This is not an improvement.
- Rob Fisher
So that's not really different from the current system we have now: you can always pay cash. I think "more government isn't the solution" is a bare assertion that needs a fair amount of evidence to actually prove.
- Victor Ganata
Medicare and the VHA have waiting lists? Really? I haven't ever heard anyone waiting for Medicare, and it's single payer. I haven't heard of anyone in England (or Canada, or any other developed country) put on a waiting list. Do you have evidence to support that? You would write off education, food safety, the highway system, firemen, and air safety as well? Seems like you're asking for a very extreme form of government that isn't very much like what developed countries are or what they provide.
- Mark Trapp
Otto: The way that discourse works in research-based journals is that one person makes a claim, and backs that up with either data, and/or references to other research. I would happily read any references you give. I don't understand why you wouldn't look at references that I give.
- Robert Felty
Rob Fisher: if government controlled healthcare doesn't work, then why does Canada spend less on health care per person, but have lower infant mortality rates, and longer life expectancy? In addition, these numbers have improved since they started their single payer system, while our numbers have basically remained flat. http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues...
- Robert Felty
Victor: What can I say? You probably won't be impressed by my Austrian economics theory. You could come and live in the UK and get sick, and see what it's like. :) I do hope the USA manages to avoid the worst of it. Maybe look around at what many other countries do; I don't think anyone gets it quite right. Singapore seems to have good healthcare; but their statistics look good partly...
more...
- Rob Fisher
I also think it's fallacious to believe we're actually arguing about a completely government controlled system. The public option is not even close to a true single-payer system, and nowhere near a nationalized health care system. It is quite similar to Medicare, except with different eligibility criteria, and as far as I can tell, Medicare doesn't seem to have destroyed the private health insurance industry, no matter how many people try to argue that slippery slope.
- Victor Ganata
Part of the reason all healthcare isn't like that is because not all health procedures and exams are as simple as eye exams.
- Andrew C
@Rob Fisher - the number of Canadians who seek treatment in the US is not very large: http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi...
- Andrew C
You probably can't get a new liver in an hour and expect to have a good outcome no matter where you go.
- Victor Ganata
But you should be able to get simple scans and tests quickly and cheaply. You can't on the NHS. The point about this not being about an NHS-like system is taken, though.
- Rob Fisher
If you are insured by a private insurer in the US your health fate is decided by insurance underwriters and doctor panels whose sole mandate is to save and make money for the company- not to keep you healthy or prevent you from getting sick or sicker. A doctor's intuition on what a patient may need, even in terms of preventative/investigative testing is hooey as far as they are...
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- Karma Martell
How do we get to a point where you can make money by keeping people healthy? People want to be healthy, so it must be doable.
- Rob Fisher
The prescription drug cos would fold, Rob. That is not what they want.
- Karma Martell
i wish i could do more than "like" this. oh, and while i'm here loving this, @Rob Fisher -- my answer is, make money doing something other than "keeping people healthy" -- putting profit and human life in the same objective is bound to have some horrifying conflicts of interest, no matter how pure the "health" motivation is. and with $$ involved, it will never even be close to approximating pure.
- (dot)lizard kelly
@Rob - you can make money by keeping people healthy, but as (dot)lizard kelly just said, you can make _more_ money by not... for example, by collecting premiums from healthy people and denying coverage to your sick customers.
- Andrew C
@kelly - I wouldn't mind people profiting by keeping people healthy. Hospitals and doctors do that. The trouble with insurance companies is that they profit by denying people care.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
Karma: As long as *someone* can make money at it, doesn't matter who. (dot)lizard kelly: food is important to be healthy; people make money at providing food; no conflict of interest there. I'm not convinced there's anything so different about healthcare. I'll sleep on it and let you know if I have thought of an amazing business plan in the morning. And if it doesn't work, I'll be looking for regulations that stop it working.
- Rob Fisher
(I suspect the reason is you can't switch insurance companies easily.)
- Rob Fisher
Simple scans and tests frequently lead to incidental findings that are almost always benign but lead to literal million dollar workups. I actually don't think easy access to everything is always the right answer.
- Victor Ganata
The food example may not be a good counter-argument here in the U.S., where farmers have actually been paid not to grow things in order to artificially keep prices up.
- Victor Ganata
Evidently you and others that spout this free market gobbldy gook have never worked for corporate America and the absolute incompetence in those organizations. Hello , can you say mortgage, banking, savings and loan, energy, etc etc etc. It is a lie and a myth and you folks have gotten away with it for far too long! Thanks, Brad
- Brad Nickel
from email
I have worked for corp America. As Brad says, free market is never free. The wealth is not distributed. There needs to be accountability and standards. As Obama says, an insurance co should not be able to come between a decision made by you and your doctor. And Victor, it's about fair access, not just access if you have the money and you can override the system.
- Karma Martell
The problem is that access is controlled by two forces: actual medical need, and the need to generate a profit, and lots of times these forces end up opposing each other. As the costs of medical care continue to increase, I think we're going to have to decide as a society which is actually more important.
- Victor Ganata
This is not to say that I don't think people who actually provide the care shouldn't be compensated for their labor. (In my case, that's just self-interest.) But there's a huge difference between fair compensation and outright profiteering.
- Victor Ganata
So who is paying for the "Public Option"?
- Brett Veenstra
And who here does not know Blue Cross is a private company.
- Mahmood Padura
If you go by what's in the House bill, the public option will initially be financed by seed money from the federal government that is supposed to be paid back in 10 years. In the long run, it's supposed to be funded entirely by the premiums of people who choose to participate in the plan.
- Victor Ganata
Otto: it is not the existence of insurance companies that keep prices high (auto insurance's existence doesn't make auto repairs artificially inflated), it is how the system works. If I am a healthcare provider and you are a patient who will only pay $100 no matter how expensive the treatment is, I can set the price as high as I want. Your insurance might only cover $500, but somebody else's might cover $1000 or $5000, so there's no reason I shouldn't set my price at $5000 for the treatment.
- Gabe
Furthermore, let's say that there's a 1% chance that you'll need another $5000 test (an MRI perhaps). If you do need it and I don't give it to you, there's a chance you'll sue me and my malpractice insurance goes way up. If I give it to you and you don't need it, you don't care because you're not paying for it. You end up getting lots unnecessary tests just so I don't get sued. In...
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- Gabe
I dunno, didn't Japan solve the MRI problem by providing lots of them and driving the cost-per-exam down? ( http://www.pbs.org/wgbh... )
- Andrew C
And besides, the insurance companies in the States deal with that problem by denying procedures.
- Andrew C
Health care is not a right http://peikoff.com/video-u...
- Crutis
It might be instructive to look at the US airline industry before and after deregulation. It used to be that prices were fixed, so airlines competed on service. This meant that service was good, and profits were built-in so airlines weren't constantly in bankruptcy. It also meant that flying was a luxury that most people could not afford, which made it not so crowded either. After...
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- Gabe
Unless you intend on repealing EMTALA, access to emergency care regardless of ability to pay is in fact a guaranteed right in the U.S.
- Victor Ganata
Hmmmm... Unless Crutis you think they fall within Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness! Thanks, Brad
- Brad Nickel
from email
What of someone is happiest if they choose not to acquire health care insurance? It would seem to me that the imposition would thwart their pursuit and remove their liberty.
- Mattb4rd
When are we going to learn that the cake really is a lie? Re: Washington D.C. - I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
- Mattb4rd
Civilization is impossible without some form of government. The idea that we can live without it is the lie.
- Victor Ganata
No, the lie is that government is somehow required in all aspects of daily life. Civilization does need government, but mostly it needs it to stay as small as possible and leave people alone as much as possible. You are not a child. Grow up and deal with your own problems instead of expecting the rest of society to take care of you.
- Otto
BTW, a "public option" doesn't actually bother me provided you use absolutely zero tax money to pay for it. Make it paid for entirely by the premiums of the people who opt-in to it, and I have no further argument against it whatsoever. (Also, eliminate the part of the current plan that imposes tax penalties on those of us who choose to not have health insurance, as that is simply flat-out wrong. If I choose to cover my own risk, then that is my business, not the governments.)
- Otto
Yeah Otto, that works well. For example banks, mortgage companies, savings and loans, toys from China, Enron.... The naive Libertarian view of the world that somehow everything will work out in the end and all will be well makes me laugh every time I hear it. Greed, perversion, violence, and chaos don't go away when the government goes away. Human run institutions are all equally flawed...
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- Brad Nickel
from email
Brad: I don't know what world you're living in, but it's not the same one I am. Government has done very little good in the world, and is in fact responsible for the vast majority of evil in it. Perhaps you forget who's waging wars, eh? A few people inconvenienced by a bank or who signed bad mortgages doesn't really much compare to millions and millions of dead people. Also, "this...
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- Otto
Sure, because the US Department of Defense had absolutely nothing to do with the Internet whatsoever. But I agree. To believe that the government is either completely virtuous or always evil is delusional.
- Victor Ganata
Actually Otto, religion and greed are responsible for most of the wars. Whether a government fights them or not is irrelevant and these days its private corporations that are fighting much of our wars and doing a piss poor job of it as evidenced by the debacle that is Iraq. That there is a fine example of where we should have let government run things, but we had to privatize things at...
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- Brad Nickel
from email
@Victor: The DoD had very little to do with creating the internet, short of funding it. They paid for it in order to connect universities together (whom they were funding for other projects as well). It's not like they sent over a bunch of engineers to lay some cables or actually wrote any of the protocols or anything. Vint Cerf didn't actually go work for DARPA until 1976. The first pipes were laid when he was still in school.
- Otto
@Brad: It's amazing to me that anybody can espouse a philosophy like yours, which enables governments to control the population and do basically anything they like, including killing millions of innocent people through senseless wars and immoral legislation. Corporations didn't bomb Iraq and Afghanistan, the federal government did. Corporations didn't lie to us about the non-existent...
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- Otto
Yes, because ordinary people with no funding or government backing whatsoever can always complete large scale worldwide projects if they just work hard enough, without any assistance. Rugged individualism FTW.
- Victor Ganata
@Victor: Why must everything come down to "large scale" and "worldwide" in your view? Are you so incapable of taking care of your own problems that you want to a) take care of everybody else's and b) have yours taken care of by everybody else? We're talking about health care. Why must "health" be a worldwide problem, to the extent that you want to take away individual rights in favor of...
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- Otto
Otto, where are we talking about taking away individual rights? I'm talking about HR 3200, not some fantastical single payer system or some nationalized health care system from your paranoid nightmares. Don't be a fool. Look around you right now. Clearly health can be a worldwide problem. And it's disingenuous to believe the Internet would have been built if some government hadn't been around to provide funding.
- Victor Ganata
Silly Otto... Its obvious that an informed conversation with you is impossible, since you are unable to defend your actual philosophy or arguments and rely upon distortions and extremely silly exaggerations to try and make a point when the question being asked can not be answered with the truth. This happens every single time I debate a Libertarian. They can't explain themselves or how...
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- Brad Nickel
from email
Because we'll have to pay for your silly self to keep you alive when you are sick and dying and don't have coverage.
- Brad Nickel
from email
@Victor: HR3200 takes away my right to choose my own health insurance (in my case, none) by imposing additional taxation and penalties for my choice. It also uses tax money to finance the "public option", which I'm firmly opposed to. And it's disingenuous to believe that the internet would have NOT been built if the government had not provided the funding. It would have happened...
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- Otto
@Brad: I'm tired of listening to your socialist and communist rhetoric. (See? I can apply incorrect labels just as well as you can! I'm not a "Libertarian".) Anyway, if you want the government to control your life, keep it to yourself, I'm not interested. Also, if you can find anywhere I called you anything other than "Brad", I'd be very interested. Note: Saying your ideas amount to "totalitarianism" isn't name-calling when it's true.
- Otto
You are a funny guy Otto and I mean that in all the ways it can be interpreted.
- Brad Nickel
Fine. Welcome to my block list, Brad. If you ever grow up and decide that you want to have a real conversation instead of trolling, then I'll be happy to oblige you. Until then, just rant incoherently to somebody else, eh?
- Otto
LOL. See what I mean. You are funny.
- Brad Nickel
Are you kidding me about the Internet, Otto? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... Note that 2 of the original nodes were UC schools--government funded public schools. With HR 3200, it's obviously going to take money to get the public option up and running, but it's supposed to be paid back in 10 years. As for the mandate, it's not ideal, but I don't see how else it will work. Otherwise,...
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- Victor Ganata
No, I think they are supposed to let him die.
- Brad Nickel
@Victor: No, I'm not kidding, and that link backs up every word I just said about it. As for the public option paying for itself, are you joking? Medicare is continuously in the red (average benefit per person in Medicare is $11,000 per year!) , and you think making a bigger version will somehow magically work? As for the mandate, that's an absolute deal-breaker, because it it is...
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- Otto
That's how government projects almost always work: they award private companies contracts to do the work. Even HR 3200 is structured that way.
- Victor Ganata
If you actually look at it, HR 3200 isn't structured like Medicare. And why is it that state laws that mandate you to carry auto insurance if you drive haven't been struck down by the Supreme Court if it's so unconstitutional? If you're totally healthy there are policies with $10,000 annual deductibles that cost like $50 a month. Obviously, the health insurance companies would rather you pay for a more expensive plan if they can get you to.
- Victor Ganata
Why in the world is a high deductible insurance plan not what you want, Otto?
- Andrew C
"Medicare is continuously in the red" - regular people who aren't on Medicare either lose benefits or coverage entirely or get outrageous rate hikes, so I'm not sure why you seem to keep claiming private insurance is any better...
- Andrew C
My goodness, a single-payer plan in BC costs ~$54/person/month and the deductible is way lower than $10K. And what I lose in 'freedom', I gain back in peace of mind and more money in my pocket overall. (and isn't the glibertarian definition of freedom money?) (Amazingly, the US actually spends as much _government_ money on health care per capita as Canada, and then of course far more in private money on top.)
- Andrew C
@Victor: a) State laws don't require you to carry auto insurance. They require you to carry auto insurance *OR* post a bond for some fixed amount, in case you hit somebody else. and b) Auto insurance is about liability (protecting other people from you), while health insurance is not (it's about about protecting you from other things, people included).
- Otto
@Andrew C: I fail to understand the question. A high deductible insurance plan is not what I want, because it is not what I want. What I want is a health insurance plan that will only cover me from, say, accident. Something that doesn't cover routine crap which I won't be needing anyway, or which I can pay for myself. In cases where there is an accident, I don't want *any* deductible,...
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- Otto
A high deductible plan effectively only covers you for catastrophes, because you're on your own for the first $5K or $10K, so all "routine crap" will be out of pocket.
- Andrew C
BTW, not seeing a doctor even for routine checkups is also gambling. Good luck with that.
- Andrew C
"Effectively" is not the same thing as actually. And if there was some kind of major incident, I'd still be on the hook for the $10k, which is still problematic. Basically, a high deductible means that you're getting no real coverage at all, it's not disaster coverage.
- Otto
The $10k outlay doesn't sound problematic to me; you've been investing your money, right?
- Andrew C
Andrew C: No, it's not. There is no actual need for "routine checkups" in a healthy human being. You'd free to disagree, but I'm just going to say you're wrong, and that is that, so there's no point in arguing it. And whether I can afford $10k or not is beside the point, it's still not the type of coverage I actually need or want.
- Otto
Otto - You have a valid point that insurance is designed to cover catastrophes. It turns out that preventative medicine helps to avoid catastrophes though. So it is in the best interest of insurance companies to encourage their customers to get preventative care. One way to do that is to pay fot it. Another way to do it would be to give people discounts for getting regular checkups, just like you get discounts on auto insurance for having a good driving record.
- Robert Felty
Yeah, there really is no point in arguing with you, not when you just make statements and "that is that". (Good thing cancer never starts off growing in the body for years before becoming a major problem! And that arteries don't ever get clogged before they close up entirely.)
- Andrew C
Robert: Preventative medicine does help to avoid catastrophe, however, it's also far cheaper to cover your own costs there instead of relying on insurance coverage to pay for it for you. It makes no sense for insurance to cover basic care. You don't pay for gasoline with your auto insurance, do you? The fact that insurance covers basic care means added burdens to the administrative overhead, higher premiums, etc, etc. It's a bad system overall.
- Otto
OK, so you want catastrophic coverage that starts from dollar 1 for accidents, but no insurance for routine procedures. I think this is a little ridiculous, but you're right, I don't think insurance companies offer that.
- Andrew C
Insurance companies are actively prevented from offering it, is what you meant to say. Many state laws require certain minimum levels of coverage, so the plan I want/need is unavailable to me because of over-regulation.
- Otto
Preventative care isn't gasoline. Food is the analogy to gasoline. And no, health care insurance doesn't pay for food.
- Andrew C
@Andrew C: Okay then, if you don't like that metaphor... Does your auto insurance pay for oil changes? My point is that health care should not pay for routine stuff *unless I want it to*. I do not want it to, I'm perfectly capable of dealing with routine stuff on my own.
- Otto
Otto - this is not just about you though. It is mostly about the millions of people who don't have any insurance at all right now. Also, with the oil change analogy, that is not quite right either. Standard auto insurance does not pay for vehicle failure. It pays for vehicle damage due to accidents. There probably is a small correlation between frequency of oil changes and automobile accidents, but I bet that the correlation between regular colonoscopies and advanced colon cancer is much higher.
- Robert Felty
Robert: Auto insurance does indeed pay for vehicle failure, if you have comprehensive insurance. Depends on the type of failure. On the other hand, you can get liability insurance to only pay for accidents caused by you, if you so want. You have choice of what to get. And I'd venture to bet that the correlation between colonoscopies and colon cancer is indeed quite high, but in the...
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- Otto
Otto - my dad gets regular colonoscopies, because he has diverticulosis, and I am not ready for him to die just yet.
- Robert Felty
Robert: He has a medical condition. I'd hardly call that "routine maintenance", sort of thing.
- Otto
Sure. The reason why health insurance companies don't offer plans like that are completely because all 50 states have strict mandates, and certainly not because the health insurance companies don't think they're profitable and would prefer that you pay for more coverage. Of course it's always the government's fault, and never the invisible hand's.
- Victor Ganata
Victor: In this case, what I said was in fact true. All 50 states and even the federal government have tons of regulations on the health insurance industry. Rates, premiums, etc.. these are all fixed by the individual states. The insurance companies have to work within a very narrow window of guidelines, sort of thing. This is one reason that so many of them have tried hard to deny...
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- Otto
The only regulation I see that applies to all 50 states is that insurance companies have to be solvent, capable of paying claims, and able to process claims in timely fashion. Fact is, the insurance companies have continued to make record profits despite all these regulations, so I'm not exactly going to cry them a river.
- Victor Ganata
Switzerland gets by with strict regulation... Admittedly, I doubt they have the kind of catastrophe-only plans you like, but (1) the insurers there make it work, and (2) they achieve better coverage and outcomes than the current US system does.
- Andrew C
@Brad Nickel - The right to life does not imply the right to the labor and property of other individuals. Medicine is exactly that: the products and services of tremendously skilled individuals. To claim by right their labor and products is the moral equivalent of slavery.
- Crutis
I just can't get over the rhetoric. It truly makes me laugh outloud. Slave labor. It's not worthy of further debate.
- Brad Nickel
from email
It's hardly slavery when health care professionals take oaths to serve society in exchange for the position of privilege it puts them in. And they provide care that isn't fully compensated quite frequently: it's part and parcel of many of the contracts they sign with insurance companies. Are you going to call that slavery too?
- Victor Ganata
@Victor, no I call it what it is: charity. Charity should be encouraged. @Brad, when you stop laughing maybe you can refute the right of a physician to contract with a patient without government interference. Until then the only laughable idea is the logical conclusion of your argument that physicians could be imprisoned unless they run their businesses for free or at a loss.
- Crutis
It is impossible to be a physician without government interference, since license to practice is issued by the state. I'm not sure I'd want it otherwise, personally. Anyway, once again we're straying from the topic at hand: there's nothing in HR 3200 that says you have to accept gov't issued insurance, anymore than you have to accept Medicare or Medicaid. It will still be quite possible to have a nice little boutique practice without getting a paycheck from the gov't.
- Victor Ganata
I do medical billing for a nursing home. Those of you who are in favor of a public option obviously don't understand Medicare and Medicaid. We couldn't take care of anybody if we had to rely only on what the government pays. And doctors didn't go to school for all those years and incur all that debt just to be civil servants with tons of red tape and poor compensation. There will be a huge shortage of doctors within a decade. If the bill passes the Senate, we're in for a true disaster.
- Dawn
NFL Star Ochocinco Sets Up His Own Twitter-Based News Network - http://techdirt.com/article...
Jay Cuthrell liked this
This place has -basic- cable. I've had satellite for ten years. I had no idea that BAVC's twitter feed is on basic cable channel 29 in SF.
Jay Cuthrell liked this
Video: "Planet Earth, About to Be Recycled" http://www.youtube.com/watch... ; Related: @mattcutts on "Google Social Search" http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Jay Cuthrell liked this
Uh oh, @qthrul has cracked the code. Nice bit.ly URL choice BTW: http://twitter.com/qthrul...
Jay Cuthrell and Hutch Carpenter liked this
This tweet links to itself: http://twitter.com/gaberiv...
Jay Cuthrell, Cliff Gerrish, scott anderson and 2 other people liked this
Enjoying that two friends on IM can't figure out how I accomplished this: http://twitter.com/gaberiv...
Hutch Carpenter and Jay Cuthrell liked this
At Web 2 Summit. Comcast CEO on stage. Wish I would have save my cable box so I could personally return that piece of garbage to him.
Jay Cuthrell liked this
This shouldn’t be the image of Hack Day - Simon Willison - http://simonwillison.net/2009...
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Бочонок мёда, Roman Zolotarev, Abraham Romero and 62 other people liked this
"I’ve heard arguments that this kind of thing is culturally acceptable in Taiwan—in fact it may even be expected for technology events, though I’d love to hear further confirmation. I don’t care. ... If we want an all-encompassing technology scene, we need to actively work to cultivate an inclusive environment. This means a zero tolerance approach to this kind of entertainment. Booth babes, tequila girls, and scantily clad gyrating women simply set the wrong tone, here or abroad. Heck, this isn’t just about offending women—many guy geeks I know would be mortified by this kind of thing." Amen
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
yuck. those are some sad photos.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Really? This kind of makes me want to go. :P
- Cristo
Too true. Friends of Lulu has been trying to make this point to the comics industry for years.
- Spidra Webster
This was company sanctioned? Wow, someone needs to have their head read.
- Kenton
It's expected that the "coolest" guys get bitches all through history. See Fonzie, and that begat rock stars and today it's rappers. In Asia, the geeks are as cool there as rappers are here, so in Asia, the geeks get the bitches.
- Matthew DeVries
*packing his bags* :)
- Cristo
I think it is absolutely appalling and I can't believe HR allowed it. Makes me not want to support anything that Yahoo touches. Ever.
- joey
Well, this just strikes me as funny, and I doubt I'd want to go to one of these without those girls there.
- Cristo
Yahoo! has issued an apology via Twitter: http://twitter.com/yahoo... I would presume that a longer response is forthcoming.
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Very difficult to believe the sincerity of an apology that clearly comes in response to outcry. However, I do believe them when they say it won't happen again.
- Spidra Webster
:(
- Cristo
Don't worry, Cristo. There are still plenty of places where you can get jiggle and blow.
- Spidra Webster
Spidra , but I want to write code at the same time. ;)
- Cristo
You can take your laptop when you go for a lapdance. In the winter, the goils might be esp happy to grind on your laptop. If your machine is anything like mine, it's plenty warm for winter!
- Spidra Webster
There's a lot of sharp edges on the Macbook Air though.
- Cristo
So would it make it all better if they added male strippers?
- Rodfather
Yes, just what the world needs is more zero-tolerance policies!
- Gabe
No it should, that's hawwwwwt
- sofarsoShawn
Well, if they're going to ban the girls, I think they should ban PHP programming too.
- Cristo
This event, and responses on this thread are pretty appalling. As a female in tech, and regularly attending meetings as the only female in a room of 10-30 males, this just illustrates one of the reasons. It's hard enough to just do your job and get heard, much less go to "company tech events" that are clearly geared in every way toward men. sickening.
- Jenna Bilotta
Most of the responses on this thread were intended as humor, which tends to be a hard thing to convey through text. Calling them appalling seems like an over-reaction.
- Cristo
Cristo, in this case, you're pretty much just wrong.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Most humor is wrong.
- Cristo
I thought humor was supposed to be funny? Also, your humor is not original and I'm exposed to this kind of joke day in and day out. It's yet another reason women might feel alienated in tech.
- Jenna Bilotta
Jenna, I fully agree I'm not always funny. It's a risk. I'm sorry if I offended you, and although making light of it, I was not supporting the Taiwan Hack Day performance. But to be honest, I really wouldn't go to one of these anyway regardless of what was there.
- Cristo
Did Carol Bartz address this yet?
- Red Label
Red Label, see Glen Campbell's comment above.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Can they ban PHP instead of women? Afterall, the women are mostly offensive only to women, but PHP should be offensive to everybody.
- Gabe
Why are people such prudes?
- Tanath
"Well, this just strikes me as funny, and I doubt I'd want to go to one of these without those girls there" ~ do you mean it's funny like dwarf throwing is to short people or minstrels to people of colour or how about sheep jokes to new zealanders? The excuse of "hey we're geeks and if you don't understand *cognitive dissonance* - like we respect women hackers but also like naked chicks on stage" is wearing a bit thin.
- Peter Renshaw
as long as woman play no bigger role in tech you will see male related stuff on such events. why should we bend reality. you should pity the lack of interest of femals regarding tech-development (and not just sales) if you feel the need for pity
- Chris Hofmann
I'm pretty sure the guy who wrote this article is gay. Hot chicks in short skirts FTW!
- Garin Kilpatrick
I dunno.. my lesbian friend kinda liked it. (me too).
- Martynas
We're simply a nation of Puritans who say one thing and indulge in the opposite...in secret.
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
The problem here is not a society that craves "bitches" but women who raised to think that being one is an acceptable way to spend one's life, or even a portion of one's life. If there are no "bitches" to consume, then the "bitches" consumer will need to learn to adapt. Mamas don't let your daughters grow up to be "bitches"
- Matthew DeVries
FFS, people. This wasn't just dancing girls - it was lap dancing. http://news.ycombinator.com/item... tries to spell out why that is wrong as clearly as possible, but I think Jenna said it pretty clearly, too.
- Nick Lothian
+1 Jenna - Your comment, and the responses to it illustrate well how little effort is sometimes put in to what it may be like for women and minorities working in tech. It's sad that it needs to be so difficult, and how global this professional bias is.
- Michelle Darnell
Save me a Seat at the DRIP RAIL!! ;PPP
- Billy Warhol
@Tanath I'm far from prudish, believe me, but when this tactic is used to promote something, it makes me feel like they're promoting it to someone other than me. I went through the same thing in the '80s with marketing of musical equipment; it was very clearly pitched to guys. Just not very smart marketing if you want a wider audience!
- Eph Zero
"Well, this just strikes me as funny, and I doubt I'd want to go to one of these without those girls there." -- Funny, as in I wouldn't have gone to this anyway, those guys look really uncomfortable, and just like any number of things on FriendFeed and Youtube, it made me laugh. Also, my wife is in tech, and she thought it was funny too, so I guess I married the right person.
- Cristo
This has nothing to do with being prudish. It has everything to do with being professional. As a woman who works in technology, I work significantly harder than my male counterparts to be heard and respected simply because I'm female. I worked harder to be respected in engineering school and was often told to go do something that 'girls' do better. It's not that women aren't interested...
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- joey
+1 Eph Zero.
- joey
joey, I think the using the term "hack" and "professional" are at odds to me. I agree this shouldn't be in the corporate workplace. I don't go to strip clubs, despite my joking. I also don't like "hacking" to becoming a professional corporate watered-down concept. It's like skateboarding, Yahoo! Taiwan was apparently trying to do both together. They failed, and it was funny to me.
- Cristo
Hacker news claims sexual discrimination. It seems as though the result would be to put the female dancers out of a job. Let's hope they find some other employment.
- Tim Tyler
Cristo, that's true, too, but 'hack days' happen at Microsoft, Expedia, etc. and they're very corporate environments. It was sponsored by Yahoo, it wasn't an impromptu gathering of 'hackers' at a local bar or something (and as a female I'd feel put off by lap dances there as well but not angry as I am that this had corporate backing).
- joey
I'm put off by corporate environments. In fact, it offends me when I'm subjected to it. E.g. I'm offended by most marketing programs, be them politically correct or not. It's their lack of authenticity that offends me.
- Cristo
joey, also you should know a group of hackers would never meet at a local bar and they would never have lap dancers. Didn't you see my list? :) http://friendfeed.com/cristob...
- Cristo
++joey I've experienced everything she mentions in tech, and constantly being called agressive, while my male counterparts are called "enthusiastic" its not ok. And no matter how hard I try to get male coworkers to see this, they just think its all in my head... it sucks.
- Jenna Bilotta
from Android
Jenna, you are aggressive in a good way only. Aggressive people change the world. Empathetic aggressive people change the world for the better.
- Daniel Dulitz
Oh yeaaah, porno chicks sooooooo hawwwwwwwwt
- sofarsoShawn
And it's not just missing the mark with women...what about gay men? Surely there are one or two in tech...
- Eph Zero
Eph, also a good point.
- joey
Marketing departments care little about pleasing small minorities.
- Tim Tyler
@Tim - Behold! The land Non Sequiters has a new king!
- Matthew DeVries
That was a reply to the two comments immediately preceding it.
- Tim Tyler
Tim, marketing a product and recruiting talent should not be the same thing. One can market a product primarily to men or women, but one should not discriminate in who they hire to create said product.
- joey
@Jenna In my experience "he/she is aggressive" is often an excuse by people who can't stand up for themselves. Daniel is right.
- Nick Lothian
++jenna Have you had the 1:1s where you've been asked to tone down your opinions because people get the wrong idea? What idea would that be, I sometimes wonder. Anyway, back on topic, I am far from a prude and I enjoy taking my boyfriends out for lap dances when the mood strikes but this? Not even close to being ok. A professional event should remain professional.
- EricaJoy
Let us also not forget that Yahoo is a publicly traded company that has shareholders to answer to. You really think shareholders want to be paying for lap dances? Doubtful.
- EricaJoy
As for the "booth babe" reference... just remember that judging anyone on appearance can quickly render one a fool. Don't assume. There are a lot of women in tech (growing?) and those women attending an event that are working a booth is no indication they were hired just as bait for men. Ask about the product, and based on the answer -- remember that the vendor cared or didn't care about how they spent marketing dollars.... Yes, a trade show floor is the perfect Roddenberry social fabric encapsulation ;-)
- Jay Cuthrell
Alternatively: print up an official "You wasted my time with your offensive and sexist use of unscripted talent on your booth -- Sincerely, A no longer potential customer" as needed... booth babes and booth boys apply
- Jay Cuthrell
I expect Yahoo shareholders appreciate the value of holding and pulling in young male developers by using sexual stimuli - but don't much care for the resulting international attention.
- Tim Tyler
Re: hiring discrimination - let's not forget that this was a hack day, not a job interview. If they had paid for a creche instead, would we see a similar outcry about discrimination in favour of women?
- Tim Tyler
I am an so call 'male developer' here in Taiwan. In my point of view, I felt that comments about the 'sexual' and 'hr to blame' note should be some kind of misunderstand. I think the hack day@tw is hosted like big event and its a contest between hackers.,In big contest, people do have something temporary transfer/release their tension. Take superball for example, half-time show is one...
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- marx
There was a lot of chatter about the future of FriendFeed this weekend. The short answer is that the team is working on a couple of longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world. Transformation is not the end. Consider this the chrysalis stage -- if all goes well, a beautiful butterfly will emerge :)
Alfredo, Fabrizio, david beckwith and 243 other people liked this
What is transforming... FriendFeed, or the idea of FriendFeed?
- Christopher Galtenberg
Thanks for the update, Paul!
- Anne Bouey
THANK YOU!
- teh Dork Knight
Fabulous News :)
- Susan Beebe
Noticed the "leaked" Facebook UI screenshots and the groups blog post today, and both seem FriendFeed inspired: nice to see Facebook trying to bring the stuff we like about FriendFeed to a larger audience.
- Mark Trapp
To Robert Scoble: I told you so ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Sounds like they're adding some of FF's features to FaceBook. yay
- Internet's Tad
from fftogo
Mark - got link?
- Susan Beebe
Thanks Paul :)
- ashish
Devil is in the details: "couple of longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" == Facebook projects with FriendFeed-like elements == no work on FriendFeed itself.
- EricaJoy
Paul, FriendFeed rocks as Gmail does ;)
- Orlando Pozo
Thanks for the update, the more you communicate, the less we have to speculate.
- Peter Hoffmann
The fact that these improvements are coming to Facebook and not friendfeed will not sway those who like friendfeed but dislike Facebook.
- Alex Scoble
Thank you Paul for bringing "FriendFeed goodness to the larger world" -- THAT sounds awesome!!
- Susan Beebe
integration with facebook?
- Rocco Galluzzo
@Alex Scoble: That's true
- Jorge Escobar
I hope out of the chrysalis emerges an infested Kerrigan. That'd be awesome http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki...
- Ivan Kirigin
Thanks Mark, much appreciated... I'll check those out
- Susan Beebe
+1 Ivan :)
- Benjamin Golub
But we knew this was the deal the moment the full details of the purchase of friendfeed by Facebook became public.
- Alex Scoble
Yeah, I don't give a crap about Facebook. I want to know about FriendFeed.
- Rochelle
Is it the interface people dislike about Facebook or the people they're friends with on Facebook? I can imagine being able to import all your subscribers from FriendFeed and have them in a separate group that doesn't interact with other groups you may have on Facebook.
- Cristo
sadly, no one with any power seems to care about FF anymore.
- Joe Silence is not dead
I'm glad to hear this. I prefer FriendFeed to Facebook any day of the week.
- Nathan Clayton
And the answer for me would be some of both. I have real life friends and family that I don't necessarily want to get into the same discussions with as I do with people here.
- Cristo
And there's your answer, Rochelle. friendwho? friendwhat now? Oh, you mean Facebook! (No I mean friendfeed) friendwho? (rinse, lather, repeat)
- Alex Scoble
there are some ui differences (and i tend to prefer friendfeed in those cases) but i have friended quite a few FF people in FB and the experience is remarkably similar in many ways.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Another big difference is I don't think you get the same FOAF interaction on Facebook as on FriendFeed.
- Cristo
yep
- Jason Wehmhoener
I hope my FaceBook peeps are ready for the FriendFeed firehose ... past experience would say that they're in for a shock.
- Crutis
Thanks for the transparency on the Friendfeed "ghost town" matter Paul. Much appreciated.
- Alex Knight
Thanks Paul... bring the special sauce to Facebook: http://blogs.zdnet.com/weblife...
- Andrew
I like the "chrysalis stage" analogy - sounds cool.... goes an looks for FF goodness butterfly!
- Susan Beebe
Good to know that FriendFeed still has some fight left; hope that translates into a viable and sustainable platform/utility for the masses (though I quite enjoy the close-knit, uber-geek community that it's become).
- Christian
I don't like the chrysalis analogy. The butterfly emerges from the chrysalis and buggers off leaving the shell. Of course, it might then also get eaten by a bird. Tweet, tweet.
- Mark H
Mark LOL nice, ... haha
- Susan Beebe
Note that he didn't say that FriendFeed.com was going away, only that they're diverted to bringing it to a much larger audience
- Jesse Stay
The problem is Scoble (Robert) and MG both just sent half of FriendFeed away so most of those that would benefit from this announcement won't even see it.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I didn't get that from Paul's comment. I read that some of the friendfeed ideas will be going into FB. I like that idea, but I still prefer FF to FB because of the different conversations here that I don't have with friends and family.
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
Yeah, Paul's statement won't help friendfeed. This will just either give people more reason to go to Facebook or find another service entirely.
- Alex Scoble
What Alex and Rochelle said. This sounds like a "we're bringing FF to Facebook" announcement, and I don't give a damn about Facebook. I want to know what's happening HERE. And Cristo, both, but more the interface. I care about the friends I've made here, and I'm connected with many of them now on Facebook as well, but I prefer to interact with them here, because I like it better.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Travis, he didn't say that - you read that, but he didn't say that. I'm willing to bet FriendFeed.com will not go away.
- Jesse Stay
As much as I agree about Scoble and MG driving people away, they have also effectively flush out some comment from the FF team.
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
Travis, there are better ways of getting the FF team to comment
- Jesse Stay
:( I quite liked the caterpillar.
- Nick Lothian
I think it's the opposite, the butterfly is becoming this crawling caterpillar :)
- Jorge Escobar
Oh I don't think FF will go away, and damn will hope it doesn't either!
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
What I do see is more Facebook integrated into the FriendFeed environment - I think that's a good thing
- Jesse Stay
The critical difference between Facebook and FriendFeed is the social model. With Facebook as it is today, you need to be mutual friends to see each others content. There is a "fan page" model but it is oriented toward "publishing/celebrity" rather than information sharing. FriendFeed has an asymmetric model like Twitter, where you can easily discover someone's content without any "friend" gesture whatsoever, and you can follow without friending. This makes the converation more discoverable, and useful..
- Adina Levin
Agree Adina.
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
If the integration is bringing public/asymmetric to Facebook, then it will be very useful indeed. If the integration is to add FriendFeed-style service integration into the symmetric/private Facebook model, it will be much less useful - it's more of the same - I'll be able to more easily share updates from youtube or last.fm or delicious to my friend network, but be unable to discover new people and infomation.
- Adina Levin
Adina: And unless Facebook goes radically toward that model, it won't suffice for me. I could not care less about their upcoming redesigns.
- Christopher A Carr
@Jesse - I can't see any sign that they are working on FriendFeed at all. All the indications are that the FF team is now working on Facebook, and only Facebook. That's great for Facebook, and I'm sure they will do wonderful work there. But don't delude yourself that FriendFeed is going to get anything more than critical fixes, and maybe the occasional thing done in someone's spare time.
- Nick Lothian
Butterflies look totally different than caterpillars and they also fly away
- Melanie Reed
Crickets chirping... is this site alive?? :)
- Christopher Galtenberg
+100 Adina. The things I like best about FriendFeed (easy content/people discovery, FoaF, asymmetrical following and being followed) are completely opposite to Facebook's core model. That's why as much as people keep talking about Facebook adding FF-like features, I don't see the REAL FF core features making it over, because the mindset is different.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I don't see this announcement as anything new, or as reassuring. We knew from the time of the acquisition that there would be would be some movement of FF capabilities into FB. The real question is whether this means absorption of FF into FB or attracting the FB user base into FF. The comment about "bring[ing] FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" still leaves that question open.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
+1 everything Alex Scoble has said. Friendwhat? What's a feed? Who uses RSS anymore? We've got PubSubWTFOMGBBQ now!
- Mr. Gunn
Agree with Jandy on +100 Adina.
- Amy℠
Also, I agree with Jandy and Adina's comments.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
Nick, Paul just said they're working on other projects right now. That still doesn't mean FriendFeed is going away. I'm not deluding myself at all. I'm telling everyone else they're deluding themselves by assuming it's going away. All the FriendFeed team is still using FriendFeed, and Paul just tried to give us comfort not to worry. For some reason we all don't want to believe him. It's actually kind of amusing.
- Jesse Stay
I wonder what the powers that be mean by "FriendFeedy goodness"? Is it understood what WE like about it vs. FB?
- Amy℠
Paul - Wishing you all the best as you tend your new butterfly garden :) I'll be here to enjoy them!
- Susan Beebe
Jesse: "For some reason we all don't want to believe him." <-- Don't want to believe what? He didn't really say anything.
- Christopher A Carr
This is not the news that Friendfeed fans were looking for.
- Vezquex: God of FF
The issue isn't belief that they are going to do something. The question is what they are going to do, and whether that will continue the core value of FriendFeed, which is not just information aggregation but discoverability.
- Adina Levin
I know more about the "Last Days" and heaven than I know about what's going to happen to FriendFeed as we have come to know it than was given in your rather cryptic answer, Paul. :) And while that may not be a fair comparison (God actually gave details and signs), there is something definitely not forthcoming about your response. A person usually withholds details that affect another...
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- Melanie Reed
Melanie, in other words, Paul works for a technology company in Silicon Valley that doesn't disclose future features, products, and services until they are ready.
- Cristo
Hopefully this helps to quiet all of the "friendfeed is dying" talk. Because this thread proves ff is alive and well.
- Garin Kilpatrick
@Jesse - I read it differently to you. To me, Paul is saying "We are taking what we were working towards on FriendFeed, and trying to bring that goodness to a bigger audience". No one is claiming they are going to shut down FF.
- Nick Lothian
@Jesse - Want to make a bet on the number of new features added to FF before the end of the year?
- Nick Lothian
Cristo, to deliver some straightforward talk is not about giving away company details. If you have a product that is original and stands on its own, you don't need to refer to it as a "butterfly". Many companies even promote something new and upcoming especially to their loyal user base. It gives a signal. A proper one. It tells your users and future users enough so that they can make an informed decision about what they want to do instead of keeping them on tenderhooks
- Melanie Reed
"the chrysalis stage in most butterflies is one in which there is little movement" (via wikipedia) So if you follow that metaphor then eventually FriendFeed will go through a metamorphosis -- that means it's not dead... really how hard can it be to get what he's saying?
- Chris Heath
Its pretty hard :) The burning question is if they are putting FF goodness in to the walled gardens that are Facebook or are they bringing FF openness to FB too. I think the people here want the open forums that are FF not the closed ones that are FB. If FB is going hybrid with both walled gardens and open forums that would be OK too. People on FF want open forums... like Twitter and FF... without the crude interface that is Twitter and without the uncertainty that is FF now.
- Ed Millard
Facebook is gonna have to rip off much of the privacy to maximize their product in the real-time web world. I am going to assume FF goodness is going to be applied to FB :) *crosses fingers*
- Susan Beebe
Just a thought... why does "longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" JUST mean facebook.com? What I get from this is that they are working on a range of things, maybe bringing the FriendFeed sauce to a range of sites, powered by the Facebook back end. Who knows what that means. A FriendFeed service powered by FacebookConnect? Also to......
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- Johnny Worthington
LMFAO. Johnny++
- Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
FB needs to leave the privacy for the walled garden and the inner circle. Their current user base likes that. They just need a second feed that is an open forum and you can talk there without it bleeding in to your inner circle feed.
- Ed Millard
Seems like the inner circle is breaking down some now, what with parents and other relatives friending teenagers. I'm guessing the information posted on the walls these days is not as private. Is there a way on FriendFeed to limit what on your wall can be seen by particular people and groups?
- Cristo
Yes, but blocking doesn't work so well since you can just use Chrome's Incognito mode to get around it.
- Alex Scoble
Translation: if you haven't switche to Facebook yet, you better do it now so you can get a good vanity URL.
- David Chartier
from iPhone
I don't know what all the fuss is about. But could we have the long answer too, please?
- Laura Norvig
Although I'm interested, FB != FF. I don't see how the two mix in a way that makes me feel otherwise. Mixing audiences is not a good thing for me (with a few exceptions) and I know others share the same thought.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Did anyone notice that Robert Scoble didn't comment on this thread? What does this mean? Does it mean Robert Scoble won't exist soon? He must be working on a Monday afternoon, no? ;)
- Cristo
Paul, will FF be here in 1 year, 5 years?
- Robert Higgins
Robert, will you and I be alive in 5 years?
- Cristo
Thanks for the update Paul..
- Chris Myles
Cristo I am funking nobody, I would like Paul to quantify his post. Simple. Will FF be here in 1 year? Will FF be here in 5 years?
- Robert Higgins
Robert, I was trying to make the point that he might not know and can't predict what will happen over time.
- Cristo
IMO friendfeed shoud attract more general audience... Facebook and twitter are having more general users. Most of the FF users are tech bloggers or those who needs aggregation services... I dont know it's just my feeling or not . but this is my impression on FF. but it's great service.. the features are too good... but we will roam were we meet our friends... thats most of the people are into twitter and FB.
- Sarath
Sarath, is there a place you can get away from tech bloggers? :)
- Cristo
Ohhhh a perrrttty butterfly, I'm moist with anticipation.
- sofarsoShawn
Glad to hear it, Paul.
- WorldofHiglet
Cristo: i almost made the same observation an hour or two ago when i first read through this posting and its comments. I was skimming and kept seeing alex, alex, alex... and thinking to myself... where's Robert!?!
- Chris Heath
Great news. Thanks! friendfeed team. :D
- Bicentennial (Franc)
@Sarath - I have a lot more in common with the people I've met here on FriendFeed than FB or Twitter. Twitter is too hard to search, and FB (and Twitter to a good extent) is driven by the people you know in RL (and unfortunately I don't have nearly as much in common in RL with my family, co-workers and acquaintences as I do with people scattered all over the world who I have met on FF)....
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- Her Lindsay-ness
I think that in his cryptic statement he means, and a lot of people here agree with me, that more Facebook's going to get more FriendFeedy. Which doesn't mean that FF still isn't dead or doomed. After all, he works for Facebook now. FriendFeed=open forum, Facebook=walled garden, totally opposite master metaphors; but I don't think Zuckerberg gets it, and FF belongs to Zuckerberg now. So this is really about FB; FF's still in limbo. Still, some FF people friended me at FB, and I put them in a special list.
- Dennis Jernberg
@FF-team keep on rocking :). BTW I also think it's really cool you guys open-sourced tornado.
- alfred westerveld
+1 what alfred said, and good to hear words like "longer-term" & "beautiful" coming straight from The Walrus - keep that vision strong. Hope all goes well for FF team doing some good re-inventing the Octopus Garden of FB - seems you've got your work cut out for you there! It would be so nice if any way to keep a "simple & pure" form of FriendFeed alive (maintained and developed - more open source?) for us to enjoy, but no worries .... you've simultaneously raised the bar and paved the way for the rest!
- Dan Freeman
Good luck with the development Paul! Hopefully Zuck has some positive insight.
- Garin Kilpatrick
I like butterflies.
- Harold Cabezas
Paul: If someone offered me a bag of money to do what you guys did, I would have done exactly the same (probably a lot faster too). However, it would be nice if you spent an hour answering some of the questions here. It might also give people like me a little more faith, in what used to be your primary project; Friendfeed. You made the best platform on the planet - why not use it to let us know what the heck's going on?
- Jim Connolly
I'm assuming that Facebook wants to keep their roadmap quiet. I respect that but leaving you community in the dark for a brand that the applications stand for community building is rather ironic.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
SUPER!! I don't Blame ya 1 Darn bit fer Dumpin' FacePOOP Paul!! ;PPP Wait FacePOOP is the Maggot Stage!! ;))
- Billy Warhol
If I can still have all my friends that I have here on friendfeed and share things with them the exact same way, I don't care what "www" address I have to type in to get it. I just hope i don't have to give up any of FF's awesome features! Thanks for the update Paul!
- David Cook
The problem is I don't know whether to wrote an app on your API or not because i'm not sure whether it will all be dropped in the "transformation". Imagine speding late nights and weekends coding something up only for it to be dropped suddenly. Need a decent long term picture. Looking at Cliqset.
- Steven Livingstone-Pérez
Good point Steven - and one of the reasons many of us are spending so little time developing our networks here.
- Jim Connolly
waiting....
- ffcode
ffcode: Good luck with that ;-)
- Jim Connolly
So the changes are at Facebook not FriendFeed, Paul?
- Kol Tregaskes
And good luck to all of your team
- Ozkan Altuner
from iPhone
This is a truly disappointing/concerning post and I think it would have been much better to hold comment until something more tangible could be discussed. Thanks for adding to the confusion/drama Paul.
- Nicholas Kreidberg
yemezler
- MobilAdam
I do care about what happens next, but this is the best news of the day nonetheless ! thanks for giving us updates at last ! and I do hope FF will awaken again ! such a great tool, but letdown since the announcement of the buyback by FB
- laetSgo
will I see this post in my "best of week" email from FF?
- Kirill Bolgarov
If Facebook is going to get fixed, please remember that it needs fixing politically, not just technically. It needs to give people the option to open their data to Google - for instance. A walled garden where the walls are fixed in place sucks.
- Tim Tyler
@Paul, or perhaps an Alien will erupt forth from its stomach? (kidding, kidding!)
- j1m
since we all know FriendFeed is a parasite of Twitter, it would appear that if MG is right that Twitter is a ghost town. The innovation halting, however, is a ticking time bomb for Facebook.
nivcalderon, Alexander Kitingan, urara and 25 other people liked this
FriendFeed would be fine without Twitter in my opinion... I block most tweets anyway. Why do you have the impression that it is a parasite of Twitter? I am not happy about the lack of support and innovation here now though. But I'm gonna ride this boat till it grounds because it's still the best ship to be on, IMO.
- Her Lindsay-ness
Yeah. /deep voice
- Josh Haley
MG is missing the conversations in FF, which were not a parasite of Twitter. In fact, the FF faithful deliberately avoid commenting on Twitter-originated content, which I think is a significant driver of FF's slow downward spiral.
- Christian Anderson
Part of the fun is knowing that the Twitter-only readers don't read my responses, don't get the value of a threaded conversation and are yet again just blowing their bugle into their own beadspread.
- Aron Michalski
from BuddyFeed
The twitter V Friendfeed rivalry is fascinating to watch from the outside but I'll say that my engagement is far higher on twitter and the boycott of tweets does the FF no favors. Could just as easily be symbiotic but whatever ;)
- WarLord
To be clear, are these /conversations/ -truly- threaded or are we reduced to lumping another row on the bonfire of banality?
- Jay Cuthrell
Well, point taken but having to go look for replies on another page or a column of a client seems counterproductive. As it stands it doesn't matter with me as I often will post and never have any response. I guess I'm not interesting or inflammatory enough.
- Aron Michalski
from BuddyFeed
I like sharing with FF as a mechanism to push back into Twitter. I periodically stop importing Twitter into FF. I've tried FF as a dumping ground and didn't like it longer term. Facebook seems more about presenting applications with annoying graphics in front of me. Reminds me why I stopped watching TV. Facebook will likely be next.
- Jay Cuthrell
the point is, ff is no deader than twitter. neither is. where's stream splicing?
- Steve Gillmor
Steve it hurts my feelings that not only don't you tweet on twitter, but you have given up on mp3 files too! And the irony is that the TriCaster is a vestige of the Amiga...
- Michael Pinto
Many people hide Twitter in FriendFeed, and watch Twitter somewhere else.
- Louis Gray
Interesting...Scoble pretty much (unless I just misunderstood) said the reverse.He thinks FF is the ghost town and Twitter is the place to be. I didn't realize either had problems. Both seem just as active to me, but I'm just a user too.
- George Gray
posting Dare's FB comment here: Dare Obasanjo That's a bogus statement and you know it. Friendfeed was a Twitter app that lots of people used. People have moved on to other apps since the FB purchase (Brizzly?). This isn't a reflection on Twitter just a sign that people no longer treat Friendfeed as a primary destination for conversations around microcontent
- Steve Gillmor
Interesting that Dare's comment is on Facebook, not Brizzly? Once FB solves the orphan comment problem, many will move there. For now, I see little difference in FF since the acquisition except for frozen development, as MG points out. Brizzly or Seesmic or Threadsy do not provide a replacement for FF, at least for me, at least not yet. What has changed is the time FB has to bridge the...
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- Steve Gillmor
Michael I tweet on twitter thru here, just like others use Tweetie, etc. I haven't given up on mp3 but rather moved to mp4. YouTube is currently not providing an RSS feed for my stream, and the approval process for downloads seems stuck for the last few episodes. I used my Amiga and Toaster until they stopped supporting them, and the Tricaster goes well beyond the Toaster.
- Steve Gillmor
i had to remove twitter from friendfeed to prevent doubleposting on facebook. (as if there were no problems in our world)
- kosmar
kosmar don't understand your problem. I post here, it goes to Twitter, which pipes it to Facebook. However, Facebook comments to my posts are orphaned on Facebook.
- Steve Gillmor
Steve, I can't believe how many comments missed the semantics of the post - that the pointy end of the stick was jabbing at Twitter. It may be a style thing I'm already used to, I don't know. :)
- Micah Wittman
steve, well i want all ff lifestream aggregation be on facebook - but the ff app on facebook only posts "posts" on the wall, which look ugly and therefore are less conversational it seems. i would prefer to have my fb-status changed by the items the ff app pushes (like twitter app does) - best twitter to facebook seems tweetpo.st (but is handicapped by twitter follower ratio issues at...
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- kosmar
… orphaned comments are one big problem. if all would be wave (or maybe pshb), that could be fixed, i guess. - but then, if someone talks about you on the phone, that will forever be orphaned anyway (i do hope so)
- kosmar
it just seems to me having recently tried ff in more frequency that with facebook and twitter it is far easier to request contact and it feels more direct - unless i am missing a way to have this dynamic in ff
- Alexander Kitingan
Network effects suggest its wise to work with many networks, not against them. Tis a bit arbitrary and capricious for a user to 'prefer' one nascent platform over another.
- Just some guy
The most damning thing is that no one from the FriendFeed team or Facebook has joined the community here that is talking about it to tell us what's happening in the future. That, more than anything I've written or said communicates the future of FriendFeed.
Sandeep Kalidindi, Shivanand Velmurugan, Arnold Goodway and 116 other people liked this
I keep hoping someone will tell me I'm wrong and will post a slide deck about the future of FriendFeed. But the lack of information is confirming what I'm hearing from my sources.
- Robert Scoble
So true - nail in the coffin! :(...
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
It's Sunday.
- Anika
Anika: geeks in both companies are online and working on a Sunday and last night is NOT the first time I've been talking about the lack of direction here. Also, over the last week lots of blogs have been posting about the traffic hit that FriendFeed has already seen.
- Robert Scoble
If there really was a team working on FriendFeed you BET they would contact us on a Sunday. They used to in this old days.
- Robert Scoble
Remember, Facebook has a PR team of more than 10 people. You think they aren't watching what people are saying about Facebook nearly 24/7? Not in my experience. They are the most engaged PR team in a new company I know of.
- Robert Scoble
The reality is that this is still a very useful service, and people stay because of the functionality and the community. There is no other service out there that accomplishes what this one does. There is still nowhere else to go.
- LogEx
LogEx: that's true, but it's also true that most people will go places where there's a clear future. Unless it's just to post non-consequential things. Me? This is both my fun time (which is why I'm still here) as well as my business (I won't be betting any of my business decisions on doing stuff here because of this lack of direction which tells me that no one is really working on FriendFeed actively anymore).
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I understand the perhaps reasonable conclusions you're reaching, but breaking the silence could send too much signal to FB's competition when they'd rather send more silence which ends up, really, being noise.
- Micah Wittman
FriendFeed is like an old dying dog left out in the pasture alone; abandoned by its Master to die in the silence.
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
Most social network content is ephemeral. If people really want their stuff to have a clear future, they should own and host it on their own domains.
- LogEx
Robert, so maybe you're not giving their PR _enough_ credit. It's speculation on my part, granted.
- Micah Wittman
Micah: sorry, that dog don't run. Healthy companies signal future directions, even under NDA. It would be pretty easy to meet with a few members of the community, NDA them, and tell them what's going on. If Louis Gray came on here and told me he's under NDA and that I'm wrong then I'd feel much better. The truth is I've talked with people inside Facebook and I know what the former FriendFeed team is working on. Hint: it isn't FriendFeed.
- Robert Scoble
Logex - yup!
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
I still wish they'd make it open source or something so that people could continue to develop on it. :S
- Her Lindsay-ness
Susan, I don't think "human master - canine pooch" analogy really applies to Friendfeed team - community that's formed.
- Micah Wittman
By the way, Facebook meets with bloggers/journalists all the time to give us secret hints at what's coming. I've been to Facebook several times this year for just that. Facebook has no serious competition, by the way, so they don't make PR decisions based on what Twitter is doing.
- Robert Scoble
I guess I'm not most people then. If I find something that works, I prefer to stay put as long as it meets my needs. New things are nice, but I don't have time to constantly try out new services to see if they are better that what I am presently using. (That's why I follow people like Robert ;-)) The new shiny service would have to be significantly better than what I presenlty use to make me want to switch.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Do you have any services that offer the same functionality, are widely available, and actually have a future, Robert? How about offering a solution for once instead of just bitching?
- LANjackal
Robert. Can you reveal the information you have from your sources. Discussions where one person has information they won't reveal is frankly frustrating. If you have some inside knowledge yet continue to make statements like this and FriendFeed is dead? then it really is frustrating to the community.
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
If your business is posting to social media, and you think your content is "consequential" based on how long it will be around on the web ... I think you've misunderstood the current moment in social media.
- Joel Bennett
There's much less interaction than there used to be - but I still have faith in the users. This (was) is a vibrant and interesting place to be - and that's testament not only to the people that made the site, but also to the people who breathed life into it. I'll be following friendfeed still, but i'll also be following the friendfeeders i've met here. I'm not sure where the future is, but it'll be something to do with the people here. I'm sure of that.
- Iain Baker
Micah - lack of innovation and development on FF platform will cause obsolesence soon. Social web apps must innovate or die. When Facebook acquired FF, we all knew that FF would wind down due to this. Communities will migrate to current platforms that meet their needs. I am sensing a large contingent of the FF community is about to leave FF, myself included.
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
Robert, did Wolfram-Alpha indicate their future direction being a $50 iphone app? All I'm saying is Facebook's strategy may include support to FF that's not in a time-frame worth pushing through PR yet.
- Micah Wittman
My favorite thing about this whole "Facebook is dead, move on" campaign is that these guys are basically just trying to shoe you BACK to the service they talked most of you OFF of in the first place: Twitter. I'm still looking for their motivation.
- Joel Bennett
Only one thing to say. Jaiku
- Moved to Facebook
The way I see it, Robert, your constant bitching and declaring friendfeed dead is what is killing the community. While the software it runs on may be dead, the community is not. I have to separate it and explain it to you, because you don't seem to understand the difference and how being a vocal part of this community affects it. The more you put it down, the more people won't come here...
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- April Russo (app103)
Susan, social web apps need utility/affection by a set of users. If cutting/bleeding edge aficionados is the particular user set in question, then what you said generally holds true. But it's not the general case unless a true replacement (in this case for FF) is available.
- Micah Wittman
I don't think he's killing the community, he's just killing the community's participation with him.
- Alex Scoble
Robert. Can you advise the information you have from your sources?
- Johnny Worthington
I am stuck in the middle on this one...
- Allen Stern
Fair point, Alex. I think this issue needs the two Scobles to put their heads together and clear the air.
- Micah Wittman
Naw...I like friendfeed. I'm not going anywhere as long as my friends are here.
- Alex Scoble
Amen, Alex.
- Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)
Is Friendfeed dying ( if it is) because of it being purchase by Facebook, or by members reaction to that purchase? Did people forecast the death of Friendfeed and then leave, therefore creating the exact scenario they predicted.
- Kim Landwehr
Robert, doesn't this put the denouement on the donkey for all those who thought it too sharp a call to say what was going on in that sale and before it? It seemed fairly clear to me what had been going on mainly from seeing the actions at the time of the sale and "doing the math". As Aristotle said: "Plot is character"
- Melanie Reed
Some times the lab rats do understand and stop sniffing for the cheese, looking up at the lab coats above them with a knowing twitch of the whisker.
- Melanie Reed
Can FriendFeed be another StumbleUpon two years later? http://stumbleupon.com/sublog... EDIT: "I don't want it happen though. I hope FFers let me entertain us again on FB" (excerpted from http://ff.im/6pO0a in Japanese)
- NaHi
from f2p
I'm more of a social media *consumer* than I am a participant. From a consumer's point of view, FF is more interesting than its competitors. A nice place to hang out, enjoy, learn, and sometimes discuss. Less guesswork is involved in deciding whether to click through to sources. From a consumer's perspective, as long as it remains interesting there won't be a reason to move on.
- howard shippin
from BuddyFeed
Johnny: yes, my sources inside Facebook tell me that the FriendFeed team has been split apart and is working on Facebook items only. So far no one has refuted that.
- Robert Scoble
April: you can believe that I'm personally killing the community but that really is giving me far more power than I actually have. The community has dramatically changed in the last two months. The alpha geeks I follow and that I build my business around have largely left. Everytime I meet geeks at conferences they tell me they are not spending as much time on FriendFeed as they did before the sale to Facebook and that the lack of direction from the team is largely responsible for that.
- Robert Scoble
And, April, if you read my blog post you'll see that I believe a new community is already moving in here -- one that doesn't care if the technology will see new features.
- Robert Scoble
I'm not on FB that much, but do people from their team actually get involved on the site? Is that even possible, with the privacy controls? I said it on another thread: you can't serve two masters. If FB is paying the bills now, that's probably where erstwhile FF staff must spend their time.
- .LAG liked that
I agree with Robert here
- Matthew DeVries
.LAG: yes. I have dozens of Facebook employees as friends over on Facebook and they do engage all over the place.
- Robert Scoble
.LAG: the head of PR at Facebook, Brandee Barker, even has a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/faceboo... and there are TONS of employees who hang out on both Twitter and Facebook like Dave Morin, head of Facebook's platform team.
- Robert Scoble
Kim: I did one of the first interviews with the FriendFeed and Facebook teams after the sale was announced (within the first hour) and even then you could tell that Facebook had no plans for FriendFeed's technology and mostly wanted the team. The fact that Gary Burd (who ran the Google Talk team and is VERY influential in Seattle technology) has already left speaks VOLUMES to what is going on behind the scenes. Guys like Gary don't leave if they are having fun and making a huge impact.
- Robert Scoble
April - Robert actions and Roberts threads have nothing to do with the death of Friendfeed. Robert's threads still have traffic and activity. The place where I see, where Robert would probably not ever be able to appreciate is the fact that there was once a time when a postless thread was impossible. Every single one of my threads had traffic. Even if it was one or 2 silly posts of...
more...
- Matthew DeVries
http://friendfeed.com/bwana that right there.....that is the saddest thing. That was once what I considered to be the most important account on Friendfeed.
- Matthew DeVries
I'm a new user. i quite enjoy what's here, at the moment. I can't say that I'm a sophisticated social networker, but I have already grown to trust many of the folk i've met here. Like someone earlier in the thread said, if enough of my friends on friendfeed decide to move on, i'll likely follow. i don't suspect that that kind of 'distant early warning' would arrive via Facebook.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
My experience on FF does not hinge on Robert. The community of thinkers and feelers will find a way to interact, here or somewhere else. By the way, some of us are left out of the loop 99% of the time when it comes to knowing what's next. Welcome to the club.
- Aron Michalski
from BuddyFeed
Matthew: you aren't the only one to notice this or tell me the same thing. Many won't point it out in public, either, because they just don't want to piss off those who are still here. Me? Being public with what I'm hearing, experiencing, deciding, etc is the way I deal with life and the conversations with others tend to either confirm the direction I'm aiming in, or they pull me back from the brink. So far not much has changed my opinion, and, in fact, has augmented it.
- Robert Scoble
Aron: Twitter is about to turn on lists. That's one feature FriendFeed had over it. Within six weeks they will turn on a new retweet feature that looks more like FriendFeed's "likes" than it looks like RTs, so that's another feature. Twitter is working on real time search and I'd expect them to turn on a much better search within six months. So, what's left? Comments. Those are added on...
more...
- Robert Scoble
I still get a lot of activity on my posts but it's not what it used to be. The big thing I've noticed is a rarely get new subscriptions yet I'm still quite active here. Going from getting several or more a day to one or so a week is a big indicator to me of FriendFeed's decline.
- Akiva Moskovitz
It's time to open source FF. Start the chant.
- Todd Hoff
is it possible that things are levelling off, naturally? can growth, here or elsewhere, expect to be exponential forever and ever?
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Brent, you bring up a salient point. For some, the constant movement is what they are really excited about more than the community. This is not to say that these ones don't enjoy the community, they obviously do. But they enjoy the "building" up of it. It's like getting trapped in the "I always want to be falling in love" feeling and never, as you bring out, get to and enjoy the natural leveling off. Some do enjoy that part. And there may be enough of them to keep this version of FF going.
- Melanie Reed
There's a problem with stasis, though. For one, it almost always leads to entropy and, for two, it means that there isn't an influx of new blood. It's the same people doing the same things having the same conversations. It decreases how dynamic the experience is. It becomes stale.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I'm not saying that FriendFeed's hit that stage yet but it most likely will. I'm still having a great time here but it's not nearly as exciting as it used to be and, no, that's just because the honeymoon period's worn off.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, I respectfully disagree. It's like exploring a new path in an old garden. This is the place most people are either afraid to traverse or have not developed the discipline to want to go there. There are always new things yet to be discovered in the same relationship. We just get "ants in our pants" not wanting to sit still long enough to discover it. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Melanie, oh yeah? Well, you're WRONG! In all seriousness, I think it's two sides of the same coin. And I want both. It's why I hang out both on Twitter and FriendFeed. I get different (but good!) experiences out of both.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Matt - Yup, I've experienced the same thing as I have over 2,500 FF followers and now see a very low user engagement; whereas, in the past, I could get a ton of likes / comments on any topic. Now I see only crickets!! FF is dying.
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
Akiva, Its more about learning to "exult in monotony". ;)
- Melanie Reed
Hah. Sorry, Melanie, but when it comes to social networking, I'm definitely polyamorous.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, I've just come to appreciate the wisdom of Solomon: that there is "nothing new under the sun". lol Or as Shania Twain would say: "That don't impress me much."
- Melanie Reed
With Friend Feed I can go to the site, and watch in realtime all the action going on with those I follow. I see Likes, Comments, Pictures, Nicely grouped and can type more than 140 characters if I want to. With Twitter, it's all a kludge to add on this and that and this client or that client and I just don't see how Twitter compares technically to FriendFeed at this time. Twitter was...
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- Keith Rowland
Yeah, the 140 character cap is the most baffleing thing that makes me wish FF wouldn't die and Twitter become king. I want more than 140 characters, I want it in real time, I want it in conversation, and I want it 100% free of super poke and my highschool neighbor's grand mother following me.
- Matthew DeVries
It is the weekend and some people sleep :) At least that's how I'm looking at it ..for now.. plus I'm begging: Friendfeed please don't go away.. - http://new2me.posterous.com/friendf... (via http://ff.im/a57K2).
- Chris Myles
FF activity is like the Bears defense tonight... far less vibrant than you'd expect
- Jay Cuthrell
from BuddyFeed
sorry 2 say that Scoble friendfeed is slowing down 2 :(
- polou/indigo_bow
Not dead yet. Thank goodness.
- Aron Michalski
The truth is we know nothing more than a few weeks after the sale when the team commented that they will keep it going as long as they could. We all knew development would stop. We all knew it would run on auto-pilot. No one here seriously expects FriendFeed to continue forever but a lot of us aren't pulling the plug and walking out the door. Interaction is down, to be expected, and I'm...
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- Johnny Worthington
well-put, Johnny.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Agree Johnny..
- Chris Myles
Here we go again...
- BLOGBloke
OH MY DEAR LORD! THE FRIENDFEED TEAM ISN'T INSTANTLY AVAILABLE ON A SUNDAY AFTERNOON TO TALK ABOUT THEIR STRATEGIC PLANS! ALERT THE MEDIA!
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Glen, the last 13 words took your statement from accurate to inaccurate
- Matthew DeVries
What Twitter client are you using these hours anyway Robert? Have you checked out CoTweet?
- Matthew DeVries
Regardless of the Friendfeed team's lack of comments, the volume on some threads like this does prove to me that life still exists on FF. I will agree that the volume is lighter but nothing has officially shown me that Friendfeed is dead, only bogus news articles trying to create news...
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Look at FriendFeed. Look at Facebook. Which one needs improvement? Of course the team isn't working on FriendFeed now. But they're still using it, and would be upset if Facebook killed it. Facebook values them. They won't kill FriendFeed.
- Bruce Lewis
strictly speaking, since the time of the sale facefeed staff have added new features http://friendfeed.com/friendf... posted news about technology development http://friendfeed.com/friendf... and responded to user support http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Mike Chelen
Mathew: I use Tweetie on iPhone for almost all Twitter tasks.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
You also started it at 3am in the morning on Sunday - kind of a bad time to get their attention, don't you think?
- Jesse Stay
Social Media Epertistes are vampires, they'd shrivel up and die otherwise after a night full of exsanguination orrrrrrrrr we could just fwd. this to the Feedback Room [done]
- sofarsoShawn
Great, so its over? I wonder how many times the community is going to be willing to put themselves into something like this before we realise that all this stuff needs to move over to an open platform. I have a few great great communities die because of financially/politically motivated owners. shitty.
- Jason Strachan
Which reminds me: Anybody know how the OpenFF project's going?
- Dennis Jernberg
We had this discussion about the future of Friendfeed back when the buyout was first confirmed. We assume it's treading water, and maybe some day we'll be surprised by an update.
- Vezquex: God of FF
Shawn, well done
- Jesse Stay
Vezquex, yeah - how many more times do you predict this will come up again? FriendFeed just gave an excuse for people to say something's dead. I predict this will happen many more times until it is actually dead or they start really vamping it up again. No one in this thread has the authority to know that.
- Jesse Stay
Maybe we will just roll our own waves.
- Sean Oliver
Re: Shawn http://bit.ly/g7zYA
- Matthew DeVries
Let's stop comparing elephants to fleas. Even if having 10 PR people allowed Facebook to be the "most engaged" new company, adjusted against the number of inquiries originating from members, 10 people cannot support that volume. With 250 million (or how ever many more) members, the right level of PR staffing would have to be closer to 250 (one PR person per 1 million members) to get...
more...
- Rich Reader
Wow, I hadn't realized Bwana had completely left. Did he blog about it?
- Laura Norvig
I'm not sure if he blogged about it, Laura, but he certainly did talk about it...I'm surprised that he made his feed go dark as abruptly as he did.
- Alex Scoble
Laura, Alex, yeah that abruptness took me by surprise too. My iphone shed a pixelated tear.
- Micah Wittman
screw this thread.... Robert Scoble crushed my friendfeed fantasy... and you people are still talking about friendfeed being dead, Now let the damn thing die quietly thank you......
- Cjay
Start using Hide, Cjay
- Alex Scoble
All Hail FriendFeed. FriendFeed is dead. Long Live FriendFeed. I like it better than wave, twitter, fb. If anything the signal to noise ratio has improved.
- Robert Higgins
Paul's Response on Read Write http://thenextweb.com/2009...
- Robert Higgins
You guys do know that Paul did post about this,right ?? Rendering Roberts shock a moot point.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Paul Buchheit speaks up! http://ff.im/a8LNU
- Susan Beebe
Every time I see this, I keep thinking that "damning" is entirely too strong of a word...
- Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
The walrus replied
- Steve Gillmor
from iPhone
Roberto (and the walrus): oh, really? Did you READ what Paul wrote? How does that differ from anything I've said?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you said FriendFeed is dead and Paul said it isn't. Keep in mind you're using said "dead" site to respond.
- Allred
Twitter is undernourished FF is chronically ill. FB is fat with clogged arteries and 10% of its users have disabled accounts including me.
- Darrell Hudson
RT @blaine We are a hateful species: http://www.chrisjordan.com/current...
Dustin Sallings and Jay Cuthrell liked this
Tornado vs Rails: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Louis Gray, Robert Scoble, Ahmed Magdy (Pr0fess0rX) and 114 other people liked this
;)
- Paul Buchheit
awesome
- Ayman Shurafa
wow. insane!
- Caio
Looks like Tornado won!
- Private Sanjeev
love the metaphor :)
- andy brudtkuhl
brilliant. Alternative comment: this metaphor is a train wreck
- Ivan Kirigin
haha love it
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Smashing! Simply smashing...
- Chris Heath
Ivan +1!
- Kevin L
I couldn't take my eyes off of it. It was like watching a train wreck!
- Chuck Adams
so sad story :( trains are so unprotected..
- я был в лесу
physics is a beaatch for sure
- Robert Higgins
That video never gets old. Never underestimate the power of nature.
- Jim Goldstein
This highlights the need for additional Superman III technology investment.
- Jay Cuthrell
wow!! :)
- Oğuz Serdar
:)
- Micah Wittman
\m/
- Bicentennial (Franc)
AMAZING footage. Dayum!
- Josh Haley
That was worth watching even ignoring the obviously cute pun.
- Greg Grothaus
isn't it too early for this? :)
- Mengu
Paul is probably just joking - but if he is serious about this pun i would assume it's for good reason.
- Chris Heath
and i bet paul just couldn't wait for them to open up tornado when he first saw this video
- Chris Heath
amazing
- boro
should hitler be saying something about it now :)
- vinod
MOther Nature indeed
- Mark Mason
WOW! That reminds me...I still have some video from this summer's train trip to post. Nothing this exciting happened, I'm afraid.
- Eph Zero
YEAH BABY
- Çağatay " SKYLAB " Şama
Just as I expected, it's all twisted.
- Dustin Sallings
very punny.
- winterismute
A good live video can make a mediocre song, prog rock in general, and Phil Collins in particular seem much cooler: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Jay Cuthrell liked this
Normally I bitch on TechCrunch when Twitter is down. So to be fair, I will now bitch on Twitter that TechCrunch is down. Yes, again.
Mike Chelen, Jay Cuthrell, Jimminy and Mark liked this
What is going on with Rackspace?
- Mark
Mark, I think they use Media Temple, not Rackspace.
- Jimminy
$ whois -a 174.143.45.97 Rackspace.com, Ltd. RSCP-NET-4 (NET-174-143-0-0-1) 174.143.0.0 - 174.143.255.255 Mosso RSPC-1239301932877153 (NET-174-143-45-96-1) 174.143.45.96 - 174.143.45.127
- Jay Cuthrell
A Troll Squats On WWWBING.com — Literally - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Stephan Planken, Shea, Jay Cuthrell and 5 other people liked this
Hehe.
- WorldofHiglet
Balloon Boy Gets Fresh Prince Treatment on Facebook [PIC] - http://www.topcultured.com/balloon...
Jay Cuthrell, Chris Heath and Benjamin Golub liked this
Jay Cuthrell liked this
News Corp 2009: aggregators are "the worst offenders" http://www.mediapost.com/publica... ...News Corp 2006: here's our aggregator! http://origin2.foxnews.com/politic...
Sebastian, TechFuga, Paul Buchheit and 3 other people liked this
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