The comments alone are worth the read. Politics seems to bring out the worst in a lot of people. - Henry Burger
"Dramesi says he has no desire to dishonor McCain's service, but he believes that celebrating the downed pilot's behavior as heroic — "he wasn't exceptional one way or the other" — has a corrosive effect on military discipline. "This business of my country before my life?" Dramesi says. "Well, he had that opportunity and failed miserably. If it really were country first, John McCain would probably be walking around without one or two arms or legs — or he'd be dead." - Erica Baker
This hasn't made it to factcheck.org yet -- does anyone know of a reputable site that's either fact-checked or responded to this article? - Tom Stocky
Rahsheen, I think Scott means that a DMCA notice is overkill for something that can be handled by better structured Flickr policy. It's a "hatchet when you really need a scalpel" as Obama would say. - Mauricio
DMCA takedown notice process sucks. Actually sucks even worse of someone takes down your stuff wrongfully. DMCA needs an enema. - £ogical €xtremes
some people are still addicted to copyright concepts and intellectual property ideas, luddites, mostly, like the riaa and the drm guys ... ownership is an illusion of the ego - Gregory Lent
onerous. seems to me that flickr should build their own process -- perhaps similar to "Flagging" that asks the user to take it down, copies flickr hq, and gives a timeline for response. if no response, flickr acts. - Hillary Hartley
Seems to me they must follow legal standards. They can't just take your claim, investigate, and arbitrate because they would be liable if they were wrong. I'm not sure I have a problem with using DMCA for this. It is what it's for and provides a universal standard. Will you pressure every photo site to have an abuse policy? What if they don't? What if they don't respond? Do you want to request many times then follow up with DMCA? Easier to just do it in one fell swoop. - Alex Neth
do you watermark you photos and does that make any difference? - Kestrachern
I think the current process works fine. To take someone else's images down without valid legal cause, you have to commit perjury. I don't think a Yahoo 'flagging' process would carry the same weight. I think people would flag stuff from people they didn't like, didn't agree with, etc. DMCA takedown is not onerous it is just sending an email. - Mathew Spolin
Also abusing DMCA is perjury as I understand. With an abuse policy, the other guy could say you violated his copyright and you have little recourse. Under DMCA, he would have to commit a felony to take your photos down. - Alex Neth
As Mathew said as well. Craigslist community policing has serious issues. A small number of rabid flaggers controls the content there, and many people disagree with their choices, but there is no recourse. It is the tyranny of a minority of users. I have had issues as have many others w/Craigslist flagging. - Alex Neth
Does anyone have Heather Champ's work contact info? She's the director of community over there.... - Steve Lynch
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DMCA or not, How do you prove its yours? This is what I'm missing. I agree that DMCA is overkill, but any process would still need to figure out how to prove who the photo belongs to. - Eric Marden
Eric, you don't prove it is yours. You declare under penalty of perjury that it is yours. That is a sufficient barrier for most cases, particularly if there is very little value involved in the claim (No offense to Scott's pictures :) ). Most people won't sign something that says "I declare under penalty of perjury..." unless it is true. - Alex Neth
Alex is exactly right. Sites like Flickr, YouTube, etc., need to stand behind a formal DMCA takedown procedure in order to protect legitimate users. The requirement of a sworn statement from the alleged copyright holder prevents large content companies (the Viacoms, Disneys, etc) from automatically flagging every single upload that matches fuzzy searches like "mickey", "britney". The hosting companies would be inundated, and would be taking down legitimate content by the truckload. - DeWitt Clinton
So the DMCA takedown process protects *you*, Scott, from the whims of the conglomerates. This process helps ensure that only copyright holders (under penalty of law) can ask for content to be removed. - DeWitt Clinton
You're all wrong. The DMCA process protects your content from being removed by just anyone, and ensures common carrier status for the carriers. I don't like it when i recieve a DMCA notice, but at least there's a formal arbitration process available. - netik
Netik, only half the people were wrong. The other half were saying what you just said. - DeWitt Clinton
You posted this photos under Creative Commons, If he included your name would not that we okay under Creative Commons? - Rich Thomas
Alright to re-upload my photos to their account. No. Why do you think that's kind of behavior is ok? - Scott Beale
@Rich - look at the CC, it's Attribution, Non-commercial, No derivative works, technically @Scott they could repost if they attributed to your original under your current CC. - cmiper
@Scott, the reason I ask because it is creative commons. Not sure how posting it to a flickr account is different that posting to a blog. - Rich Thomas
@Rich - So I guess you're ok with people re-uploading your videos to YouTube as well? Is that also the same as a blog? I really don't get your logic here. - Scott Beale
I'm in agreement with Rich. If they gave you credit (Attribution) and weren't making money off of it (Non-Commercial), and they didn't change anything (No-Derivatives), then they may well be within the rights you granted with the CC license. But there's a caveat -- they don't have the right to apply a new CC license, as it is a non-derivative work -- only the copyright holder (you) can do that. @Scott -- can you link to the Flickr user who did this? - DeWitt Clinton
@Scott, I am asking what is the difference between creative commons and standard copyright. It is not want I am okay with. It is about what is allowed under creative commons. I see lots of people who re-upload video on different youtube accounts. I am unclear about the rules around creative commons - Rich Thomas
@DeWitt - I linked to the previous FF discussion on this, but here's the direct link to the Flickr user who is uploading other photographer's photos (including mine) to their account: http://www.flickr.com/photos/d... - Scott Beale
Also note this person does not make any distinction between CC or copyright and watermarking is also not a deterrent. - Scott Beale
@Rich - Actually what you said is that you didn't know how re-uploading another people's photos to your Flickr account is any different than posting their photos on a blog. The difference is pretty obvious to most people, unfortunately not all which is why this issue still comes up. - Scott Beale
yip, reason # 544 I removed all my photos from Flickr to a better service - Stuart Forsyth
Stuart, what do you consider to be a better service? - Spidra Webster
Which ones are yours? Subject, I mean... - Paula Wirth
Seems like DMCA is the only thing that protects both sides from abuse in this case. - Sam Pullara
@Scott - no question the person is violating the terms of the CC license by not giving you attribution, even setting aside the other questions. I'd send Flickr a formal DMCA takedown request. They will take down the photographs and inform him/her that they can file a counter-notice if they disputes your claim (which they won't do). That's exactly what the DMCA process is for, and Flickr may well ban the user if it is a repeat offense. Go get 'em! - DeWitt Clinton
@DeWitt - I'm more than familar with the DMCA process. You may recall my previous situation with Michael Crook which led to EFF suing him for false DMCA claims. My only point here was that I thought that DMCA was overkill in this particular case. Some people agree with me, others do not. I'm sure this debate could go on indefinitely. - Scott Beale
WHO CARES if people use your stupid photos. I've never understood the attachment. Who cares!!!! - james svenson
where you moving? good luck -- it's a pain. :) - Hillary Hartley
We're moving our office from 9th & Gilman in berkeley to the top of Solano Ave. on the berk/albany border. Better location, but smaller space. - Andy Kaufman
I can't even say the words. If that man and that woman get into power. It would be like a 4 year bad mushroom trip. To follow the 8 year nightmare that is finally ending. - Indio Apache
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Are you implying there are two spineless Senator's vying for the US presidency? Sure sounds like it. - Gerald Buckley
Please. It's hardly as simple as "growing a spine." The moment he acts even moderately perturbed, his detractors start to laugh about how Palin is "getting to him." Any display of anger or spine just energizes them into portraying him as a sore loser. - mabisa
The Republican party, and more specifically the Roveites, have done an incredible job of moving political focus away from issues and into personalities, with effective and successful ways of deriding, degrading and defaming. While it makes me ill, Democrats must adopt the same strategy, but rather than the outlandish lies that Republicans use, sticking with the truth can work - just look at the opposition, who every day opens themselves up to attacks because of their constant deviation from the truth. - JodyUnwired
Dave just give up like I have its pointless. - orionstarr
I continue to wish friendfeed would implement "Like" for Comments -- something similar to Get Satisfaction's "This is one of the best points." - Hillary Hartley
This picture makes me feel better every time I worry about Obama losing the election to lying liars: http://is.gd/2skQ - Kawika Holbrook
ironically, i'm commenting in this thread to remind myself that the reason that I "like" this post is because I really liked the link that kawika posted, but i didn't necessarily want to post it to my delicious. Get it? Its ironic, because this is exactly what Hillary was talking about. in the comment before the comment that i'm commenting on. - Chris Hollander
while we're at it, threading would be nice. - Chris Hollander
sorry to derail: back on topic: If Obama looses, I'm moving to Australia and opening a scuba diving shop. Who's WITH ME!!! - Chris Hollander
Kawika, love it! thanks for sharing. - JodyUnwired
Obama's in a knife fight. Time for him to get a gun. THAT'S the Chicago way. And the only way to beat Capone ... errr, McCain. - Kevin Pedraja
This is a giant leap forward. I just hope maybe this technology can be canned for come kind of VR use. - Zach Scott
I think that it is 100% okay that Microsoft makes this Windows only. This is a legitimate avenue to add value to Windows. If Apple can make things like iPhoto mac only as a value add to their OS, why shouldn't it be okay for Microsoft to do something similar for Windows? - Joe Beda
@ Joe Beda perhaps because the OS is not the value add - seriously, competition is great but you running Vista yet? All of this user generated content App rush (don't forget Adobe & flash issues) is good for users generating content ... fwiw not an apple v msft issue when downstream app cos are historically crowded out by Windows OS - creep - Scott Moskowitz
I should be clear -- I think that it is in Microsoft's best interest to have the player work everywhere (ala silverlight). However, on the creation side of things, I think it is a great way for Microsoft to make Windows more compelling. Obviously as a user we'd like to see everything be cross platform, but I think it is legit for MS to only offer the creation software on Windows. (Can I get Apple's Aperture on Windows? What about Final Cut Pro?) - Joe Beda
I see nothing wrong with Microsoft making PC only software. But it still doesn't mean I can use it on my Mac. - Thomas Hawk
It doesn't seem to play well with Parallels/XP either. Once I installed the plug-in, every visit to the Photosynth site crashed IE. On an unrelated note, the language of the notice regarding their lack of cross-platform support is very un-Microsoft (not in a bad way). Anyway, looking forward to giving it a shot once they get a handle on the traffic spike. - Tom Harrison
The TED demo of this software was one of the coolest and most inspiring things I've seen re. software (esp. M$ software) in a long time. - Hillary Hartley
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format independence & with it OS independence will be a boon to computing ... we are analogs not digits - Wes Schadenfreud
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but the buttons to click on were so.....BIG - Josh Haley
alright everyone... really it is past time for this, but we need to re-start a major boycott of buying cds or downloading music... it's time to fully get into the pirate mode and show the RIAA... they shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them. - Harold
In my case, I already sort of do that, but the only music I listen to now is Japanese b/c I'm learning the language. I download from jpopsuki to try before I buy, because if I'm going to send a WHOLE lot of money overseas, I'm going to know what I'm buying. Where possible, I buy directly from the artists like http://artoftravelogue.com or http://bonvoyageweb.com - Stephen Shores
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I was going to click on "like", but it didn't seem right somehow. If I *can* buy from the artist directly, I *will* be from now on. - Karen Mohler
"There are nice flyers all over the Ferry Building -- I should've taken a picture. The header on their Web site made me think of "the march of the chairs" after a certain magical dinner party or two.
Also of note are the "Slow Dinners" [upcoming] at the Taste Pavilion starting Thursday night. It should be an amazing event." - Hillary Hartley
I use browser bookmarks for quick links that I hit several times a day, primarily so I can assign shortcut keywords. I have accounts at both Magnolia and Delicious, but I stopped using D a long time ago and only post special project stuff there. Magnolia FTW! - Hillary Hartley
what Aaron said... noticed this on iPhone client, too. you can read, but can't move/delete/label/etc. - Hillary Hartley
I was fixing to add that, just checked and I can read but can't delete. - Aaron Myers
In HTML mode, outgoing emails are sent, but still give you an error. This probably means the email won't show up in "Sent" mail afterward. Incoming mail to Google SMTP servers are received, and I'm hoping they're just queued for delivery once Gmail is back up to speed. - Victor Trac
wow, cool set of photos! when i lived in nyc, i was always amazed at the rooftop gardens and courtyards hidden in the middle of blocks. - Hillary Hartley
ditto to orbitz & flightstats. both have great mobile/iPhone sites. - Hillary Hartley
Yes, SeatGuru rocks! Wish there would be something like this for high-speed trains as well. So often I reserved a seat without power socket. - Benedikt Koehler
In Germany everything went smooth, only short waiting (at least at the time I bought mine....) Only they had far too few phones everywhere - Markus
Yeah. Windows. That's always been the joke...apple stores running Windows paypoint software. - Jerry Chacon
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Apple store running Windows.. And SJ wants everyone to run Apple! - Muthu Ramadoss
I agree with Lois. This does not look good for Apple or ATT - Jerry Chacon
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If an Apple service goes down, is it a fail lemming? - Ontario Emperor
From a buzz perspective, what is interesting is that most of the comments are along the lines of "It sucks that the activation is down, but it won't affect my interest in getting a 3G" Nobody seems to take a negative position other than "I might wait a couple days to get an iPhone" - David Thomas
@John Denver - haven't you ever looked at their checkout PDAs? They are Windows Mobile devices, so they probably *are* running Windows servers. - Hillary Hartley
Twitter did raise their API limit. Who knows, maybe Apple is using Twitter. Was anybody asked for their Twitter account details? :D - Manu Ullas
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Maybe twitter raised the API temporarily to handle the IPhone hype? Might check their blog. - Mo 'Killer Sauce' Kargas
Have you seen WALL•E yet? PG does the end credits song. Nothing earth shattering, but was nice to hear his voice. Guess this means we'll get to see him st the Oscars! - Hillary Hartley
We want to hire a Scoble-clone at bit.ly to camp out on the net and soak up ideas and feed them back to the team and vice versa. There's more to the job than bit.ly. I keep telling the guys we need a Scoble. Know any?? :-) - Dave "Actual" Winer
The young Scoble who would be appropriate for this is too busy playing with his new iPhone 3G and WoW. :-) - Robert Scoble
Patrick is a little too young I'm afraid. But not much too young. In a few years. - Dave "Actual" Winer
Ahh. In that case you're looking for Louis Gray. ;-) - Robert Scoble
Or me. Dave - you remember Norbert Mikula? You and I met when I worked for him back in '99ish. D or @ me if interested. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg
@Dave - can i put my services forward? I'm not a young Scoble by any means - i doubt one exists....and i'm not an internet celebrity (yet) :). But with regard to soaking up ideas, listening round the clock & feeding them back. I could ensure I knock that out of the ballpark for you. It's essentially what I do for a living - Zee from WeDoCreative
Brian, since FF doesn't have profiles, you gotta paste in a link to a backgrounder. But that's a bad sign, I'm looking for someone who I don't have to coach in the art of repping a product on the net, someone who already knows what to do. - Dave "Actual" Winer
Already I'm glad I asked this question. Not only are we looking for help, it's important to understand how we market in 2008 and into 2009. Scoble blazed a trail for sure. Now where do we go from here? As we've been brainstorming it, I'd like someone who also is a programmer, who can help build the software, but is outwardly focused. Most programmers aren't. The ones who like users are the ones I seek. - Dave "Actual" Winer
Dave: I'd look at what Gary Vaynerchuk is doing. http://www.winelibrary.tv -- he's the most brilliant marketer -- by far -- on the Internet today. Get someone with 1/8th his skills and you got a winner. - Robert Scoble
Interesting that products and services need just a regular word-o-mouth type digital marketer now and that this is normal/standard. - David Cohn
Yup, I agree about Gary. It's hard not to be involved in his marketing, it's everywhere. And that's where you want to be. :-) - Dave "Actual" Winer
What's "young" to you, Dave? 16? 21? - Zach Flauaus
Sounds like it;s time to meet Louis. Is he in the Bay Area? - Dave "Actual" Winer
I am wondering with @zachflauaus. How young is young? - Matt Pippen
Dave: yes, Louis is local, but his wife just had twins so might be hard to get out of the house. - Robert Scoble
Someone with both superior technical and superior business skills is a rare find. Either you have a person with only one of these skills, or someone with middling tech/business skills. - Ontario Emperor
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Brian gets my vote. So does Corvida. Both are always participating in the community (and are well liked) and that's the #1 ingredient that Dave needs here. - Robert Scoble
Dave: send me a DM on twitter. I have a good idea for you. - Jason Goldberg
To my credit (or maybe not) I hired Scoble in the 90s so I saw the potential of Scoble-style marketing pretty early. Young is a spiritual thing, not looking for a specific age, but Patrick is just starting high school and he's a great guy, but still has to get his education. I've known him since he was a baby, and I'd never interfere with that. - Dave "Actual" Winer
@Dave - I'm in SFOish area till Weds. If you want to meet, I'm game. Your call. PS - thanks Robert for the kind words. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Good point, Ontario. I've been blessed enough to be able to make my living from having that exact mix. A socially-capable geek, who can also run an no-need-to-sleep business meeting? Say it ain't so! - Bradley McSpinn
Dave: you hired me in 2001, right before 9/11. :-) -- I hired Dave in the 1990s to speak at our Web conferences. - Robert Scoble
I would like to think the person your looking for doesn't even know they are the one.They are on the web doing something they feel passionate about and love, just cause.. end deep thought - Britney Mason
I think Winer in a sense, passed on the torch to Scoble ... I know Dave hasn't gone anywhere and won't either - JohnBfromMemphis
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Scoble, okay now I remember. Actually I spoke at your conf in New Orleans in late 2000. I still tell people you were already blogging at the time, just using email. Most of your speakers probably thought you were a PITA but I thought you were visionary. - Dave "Actual" Winer
Louis -- Scoble said you're a Young Scoble. That's a high compliment. Are you in teh Bay Area? (Note, I'm about to sign off for the night, so may not respond until morning). - Dave "Actual" Winer
C'mon Louis. Go play with the twins and get off socnets for a while. LOL :) - Brian Daniel Eisenberg
No way you can clone Scoble. He is one of a kind. But if you're going to try, FF is the right hunting grounds. - Christian Anderson
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Louis: wait until you see what I said about you over on my blog. - Robert Scoble
Now I'm wishing I was 20 yrs younger...;) But seriously, there are some great names already thrown out in this thread. The problem I have is that most of the "young Scobles" are already deluged with projects... The names I come up with immediately are so busy already doing stuff like that, it would be hard to lure them away from their present obsessions. - Lucretia Pruitt
Dave, I'm pretty easy to reach. I live in Sunnyvale and attended Cal. Cell phone is 408 646 2759. E-mail: louisgray@mac.com. Call anytime. - Louis Gray
that's my dream job. To be the internet presence for a cool company and to take their users' ideas, suggestions, criticisms, values, hopes, dreams, etc and help help make them a reality by organizing them and getting them to the right people to make it happen. - David Silvernail
@davemcclure: Daniel Brusilovsky is a delight and we are not giving him up anytime soon. :-) - Jackie
Daniel Brusilovski is definitely someone to watch - that kid is awesome! Just wish we could get him on FF... - Jesse Stay
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I for one do not want to be a young Scoble. I rather be building something useful. - Trebor Elbocs
