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Keith - @tsudo

Its not about Friendfeed, Its about Friends – A Requiem - http://knowthenetwork.com/blog...

August 10 from KnowtheNetwork.com - Comment - Like - Share

Evan Brown, Mike Fruchter, Ben Hanten and 17 other people liked this

Well done Keith! - Jim Hearts FF

8 more comments

Great post - Eric Logan

"Social media is about people. It’s about making connections." For some, it's about employing intelligent agents to filter information. I've certainly "met" some interesting people here, but that's not, for me, the primary point. - Christopher A Carr

Excellent post! - Anne Bouey

Thank you Jim, Eric, and Anne - Keith - @tsudo

Well said. I'm so sad :( - Martha

Christopher I've got not doubt that different people use FF differently but all my "intelligent agents" are people. Friendly, smart, people - Keith - @tsudo

In case you are interested in staying connected feel free to add me in FB http://facebook.com/keithcr... - Keith - @tsudo

I didn't mean to suggest that I don't appreciate the people here, it's just that, even if everyone friends me on FB who I'm subscribed to here, it's, well, just more friends on FB. It's not possible to use FB the same way I use Friendfeed. So it *is* about Friendfeed. - Christopher A Carr

In that case I completely agree. I said in my Friendfeed presentation that the best content filtering engine we have ever invented is millions of eyeballs - Keith - @tsudo

GrandCentrix

Let’s go Mobile 2.0! - http://www.grandcentrix.com/2009...

August 9 from GrandCentrix - Comment - Like - Share

Martin Willnow and Ralf Rottmann liked this

GrandCentrix

Meet us in New York (SpeechTEK) - http://www.grandcentrix.com/2009...

August 9 from GrandCentrix - Comment - Like - Share

Martin Willnow and Ralf Rottmann liked this

Dave Winer

FriendFeed API v2. http://blog.friendfeed.com/2009...

July 20 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Devon Govett, Thomas Amberg, Timothy Federwitz and 50 other people liked this

Thanks for posting this link, don't know how I missed it - Mark

14 more comments

Mark, you haven't subscribed to http://friendfeed.com/friendf... or http://friendfeed.com/bret - Jérôme Flipo

I WAS subscribed to Bret, but he went to a private feed? Either that or be blocked me for some reason. Edit, yep, blocked me. Don't know why, don't think I ever even commented on any of his posts :/ - Mark

It looks like Bret's feed is now private. At least, that's what a quick test on his feed thru the API says (error 405 : Not Allowed) - Zackatoustra from IM

Zack: 405 means method not allowed (IE you used a GET when you should have used a POST or vice-versa) - Benjamin Golub

One important thing FriendFeed API doesn't seem to have on a very cursory fast read: location, location, location! Really it's too bad. - Robert Scoble

Robert: geo is included in the output (http://friendfeed.com/api...), and you can tag new entries with the geo arg on input as well - Bret Taylor

bgolub Oh, ok. Thanks! I've done this too quickly... - Zackatoustra from IM

You can create entries with "geo" information now: http://friendfeed.com/api... - Benjamin Golub

Benjamin, I take that back, very cool, thank you! - Robert Scoble

Thanks Dave checking it out. Great work Benjamin & team. Now to figure out how to use this to save many hours coding up similar stuff for my selfish project. - Mark Essel

Geo location features sound awesome :) - Susan Beebe

I hope Atebits will do a FriendFeed client for the iPhone now! - Ralf Rottmann

Agree with Ralf. We *need* a killer FriendFeed app for the iPhone!! Please? - Timothy Federwitz

Why are posts from weeks ago coming up now? - Mark

Probably me discovering older posts and liking? Nope it wasn't me :) - Mark Essel from iPhone

Zee.

She said YES!!! (Update: Thank you all! Photos here: http://friendfeed.com/zee...)

August 3 from iPhone - Comment - Like - Share

Leandro Ardissone ⍨, erikvisser, Mitchell Tsai and 198 other people liked this

Are you saying what I think you are saying? - Martha

125 more comments

Congrats mate, best wishes for you and your girl !!!! - Nir Ben Yona

Congratulations! :-) - Holger Eilhard

Woot sauce! - Jon, the Chilled Beartato

'grats Zee! - Andy Sternberg

Congratulazeeeions! :) - directeur

Congratz! - Carlos Ayala

congratulations - Alfredo

Congratulations, Zee! - Christopher Harley

Congrats!! - Shey, Jamaican of FF

Wowzee! I mean, Wow, Zee! Congrats! - Jorge Escobar

Congratulations, Zee! - John Craft

CONGRATS!!! :-D - Anna Haro

I think that dancing wedding video you posted last week put her in the right frame of mind. Congratulations. - Andrew Leyden

Congrats buddy! That's fantastic! You da man! - Internet's Tad from fftogo

Congrats!!! - Nurse Katie

Congratulations! - RAPatton

awesome Zee! Congrats you guys! : ) - vijay

Congrats. Are you double sure she understood the question though? - Steve C

Congrats!! - Alex Vermeule (@alexve)

congrats!!:) - Patrik Johansson

oh dear, congratulations! o/ - Bahriye

Congratulations - OnuRC

Congratulations, Zee! - LANjackal

Congratulations! - Rubin Sfadj

Congratulations!! - joey

woo! - Allen Stern

Congratulations, zee - Naser ziab

awesome news. congratulations to you both. - pea

Congratulations! - Julie Barrett from twhirl

Hooray! Congrats! :) - Laura Lou Who

Congrats mate! :) - Meriç Dağlı

Congratulations! (I'm assuming that, of course, you asked her to marry you.) - Trent Hamm

Like Robert said, somthing in the Social media Kool-Aid :) - Roberto Bonini

Congrats! - Marcos

You're the man Zee! Congrats! - Mark Layton

Awesome!! Congrats :D - Praveen Vasudev

Congrats - will there be a Zee.us now? - Stuart Miniman

Nobody messes with the Zee.us. - Akiva Moskovitz

Congrats, Zee - Kamilah Gill

Congrats to the both of you, Zee. - Derrick

congrats - Milad.p

Congrats Zee! - Justin Korn

Congrats, Zee! - Admiral Anika

Congratulations Zee! - Keith - @tsudo

Congrats! - Shevonne

FTW! - James (!?)

Awesome, Zee! Congratulations! :) - JA Castillo

Congrats! - Dobromir Hadzhiev

Congrats! - Nation Hahn

Con'grats Zee. All the Best to you and yours ! - Peter Dawson

Woohoo! Congratulations Zee! - Niki Costantini

Will you change your URL from zee.me to zee.us? Congrats. - Louis Gray

Congrats Zee! - Alex Scoble

Congratulations. - Evan Travers

Louis - That's a keeper right there. - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge

Awesome! - Josh Haley

Woohoo! Congratulations! :-D - Ladybug Heather

I was pretty sure that was what you were nervous about. Congratulations to both of you! - Spidra Webster

That's a lot of excitement over a new 3GS. ;-) Seriously though - congrats to you both! - Andy Bold

Congrats Zee ;) - Alejandro

Congratulations! - Aaron Hood

Congrats - Rodfather

Congrats :)!!! - Ronald

Aw you did it now. Congrats. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Did you ask her via FriendFeed? - Ruud van Wijngaarden

Congrats Zee! :) - Tracy Benham

OMG THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!! Wooo hoooo!! Congratulations Zee!!!! :) - Susan Beebe

Thats what she said. - Lakshman Prasad

congrats! - Bill Kinney

恭喜！ - sG

Thank you SO SO SO MUCH guys...its a very special day and means a lot coming from you all - Zee.

Congrats Zee... :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

Congratulations, best wishes... :) - Serkan Unsal

Congrats - Eric Logan

Whoo! Congrats! - xero

Congratulations! - Herb Hernandez

Congrats ! New life is coming ! - Guy Vander Heyden

Congrats man! - Nate Pilling

Congratulations Zee :) - Karthick R

Congrats, Zee! :-) - Kol Tregaskes

Awesome, congratulations. - Andrew Leahey

Congratulations! - Anne Bouey

congrats. - Thomas Hawk

Congrats! - Simon Wicks

Congrats, Zee! I love happy news. :) - Ayşe E.

woo hoo! - metalerik

YAY ZEE!!!!!! - Mona Nomura

That's amazing...congratulations Zee!! - Emma

Gefeliciteerd! - Willem (@wim66) ☠

Congrats Zee, very happy for you :) - Charlotte M

Cograts Zee:) - Rob Cairns

گیلیلیلیلیلیلیلیلیلیلیلیلیلیلیلی - Majid

Congrats Zee! - Adarsh

Congratulations!! - Michael Falkner

Congratulations! - Eric Geller

Are u sure??? LOL... CONGRATULATIONS to both... - Amit Nangare

excellent! - Jim Hearts FF

Amazing! Congrats Zee! - Wang Yip

Congrats - Wei-Yen Tan

Congratulations! - Sarah Lane

YEAH!!! - Helen Sventitsky

Congrats Zee!! - imabonehead

wait! It seems that Zee has asked her whether she is married or not! - maysam

o_0' - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

Reminds me of this song: http://tinysong.com/6wj5 - Kevin Arth

Congratulations! :-) - Jason Huebel

Congrats! - Rutger Blom from iPhone

Congratulations Zee! I think you'll remember your italian holidays like something of special - Roberto from fftogo

Woohoo! - Micah Wittman

Congrats 116 times - Good Luck in the future. - Raymond Marr aka Knatchwa

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....w THAT's some good news. Congratulations, Zee. - abacab

Congrats!!!! - Mark Douglass

Hahaha, that's good! :-) - Ton Zijp

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee congratulations :D - albameccanica - Arianna

I d'nt know... but, congratulations.... :))) - Franci

Congrats dude! Best Wishes. - Joshua

Congratulations! - Louis Simoneau

Congrats Zee - Charlie Anzman

WOW. 125 Congrats and 190+ likes...who needs a wife when you get this much love on here... :) - Zee.

Congrats! (Make that 126!) - Johnny

OMG!!! Congrats, Zee!!! - David Cook from fftogo

GZ M8, ofc she said yes - Mihai Tarmure

That's fantastic news! Congrats!!!! :-) - Live4Emma (L4S) from iPhone

Congratz!! - Nia

Congrats, Zee! :) - Dee S.

Congratulations and all the best for you and your future! :-) - Christian Walther

Mike Bracco to Mike's feed, building43, TheNextWeb Forum, RWW: The Future of Tech, Appetite

The upcoming Internet pandemic: data addiction – The Next Web (I'm ready to become addicted :) - http://thenextweb.com/2009...

July 20 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

thinkingit, Jason, polou/indigo_bow and 7 other people liked this

Awesome post Mike - Zee.

Thanks Zee - Can't see myself strapping the zeo to my head every night though...some of the other tools I'm down with though :) - Mike Bracco

"Upcoming?" I'm already hooked and beyond hope - LANjackal

Zee.

The love of my life and the mother who gave me it. - http://www.zee.me/blog...

July 19 from Zee Slash Blog - Comment - Like - Share

Colette, Rodfather, vijay and 7 other people liked this

Clearly the love of my life is the one on the right. Oh, and know that feeling when u've tried to be too clever with a post title? Feeling it now... - Zee. from iPhone

2 more comments

Pretty! :D - Rochelle

:) - Anthony Citrano

What Rochelle said : )) - vijay from iPhone

Robert Scoble

I thought about blogging but looked at the sun outside and the sun won. Half Moon Bay FTW!

July 19 from iPhone - Comment - Like - Share

Freddie Benjamin, Ralf Rottmann, Derrick and 12 other people liked this

"I fought the sun and the ... sun won." - Craig Brownell

7 more comments

time to refresh is key. have a good day sir! - Calvin Ayre

I looked at the thermometer and it said 109. The sun won and I'm hiding in my shady office. - James Hull

you can stop protesting with GREEN PIC now please :) - Weird Shanghai

Perhaps it was reintroduced on social networks in solidarity but that Green-Hulk-Scoble pic is classic scobleizer! - Benjamin Taylor

We most feed energy from the sun, before this short summer goes away. - Keven

I will pray for your 3G. :-) - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed

Good choice... Enjoy the summer!! :) - Susan Beebe from iPhone

afternoon fog is moving in, time to ride into the hills.. - jacek

Robert Scoble

I hear from good sources that Yelp is coming out with one of the coolest iPhone apps using the compass. Me wants!

July 14 from iPhone - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Rowley, Özgür D. Cyric, Kenya Airways and 16 other people liked this

It will be an augmented reality app. Like EVERYTHING is now! XD - CannonGod

15 more comments

Good for directions, but I still won't read the reviews. - Mike White

If it has push notifications that sense when you are walking into a place and ping you with a review then THAT'S impressive. - CannonGod

So, what is it going to do? - Hummie

Yeah, what Jake said. - Chris Foley

How do we know Apple is going to approve it? Don't they treat all development program members equal? Just kidding here... (really frustrated with the review process that slowed down significantly over the past couple of weeks, again). - Ralf Rottmann

Sounds like the (Places directory) app by Google for Android phones, I really like that one :-) - Alex M.

sounds good, will there be a S60 app next :) - Anthony Farrior

I wonder if we will hear about that new Dell soon - Mark

@Alex: I'm definitely impressed with the number of forward thinking apps for Android. iPhone is just a cluster f*ck of apps all badly doing the same thing. I know I just got the new 3GS, but that's only because in 18 months Android will be a VERY tasty proposition :p - CannonGod

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1... epiclol - Mark

@Jake: In order to push a notification that you're near a place, the app would have to continually send location updates to your server, meaning the app would have to be either open or running in the background. In other words, not possible with the iPhone SDK (AFAIK). - Raj Advani

Robert, I swear you have A.D.D. Adoption Dependency Disorder :) - Rhys Amos from iPod

@Raj: A valid point, though I'm wondering if Apple are looking to lower the Push interval from 15 mins to 5 mins (or custom) in light of how much they've pushed Push for OS 3.0. An interesting case study for now would be the Palringo app. They don't yet use Push, but you can close the app down to the Home screen and still get buzzed IM replies in near real-time. - CannonGod

Right, although the push interval isn't the problem for this particular feature. For something like Palringo, the server can push updates to the phone because the updates are in response to external events (people sending you IMs). In the Yelp example, you're getting notifications as a result of internal events: your phone changing location. It's that step of transmitting location when your app is off that isn't possible yet with iPhone 3.0. - Raj Advani

It should work on Android as well. Augmented reality apps using the compass and the camcorder mode, those are awesome. - Charbax

Camera based augmented reality apps have to wait until the release of OS 3.1. Otherwise, a non-camera interaction AR would tread on other company's IP. Yelp should be careful. - Ryan

Richard

Note that Siri, a next-gen mobile web app, is betting heavily on future browser technology. See our review today: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...

July 13 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Sally Church, SportyGeek Adj., Ralf Rottmann and Robert Scoble liked this

siri rocks. - Robert Scoble

Friends of Mashable

Michael Jackson Lives On, with Eternal Moonwalk - http://mashable.com/2009...

July 11 from Mashable! - Comment - Like - Share

Ralf Rottmann and Zachary TG liked this

Zee.

Vadim Kibardin’s killer clock concept - http://www.zee.me/blog...

July 10 from Zee Slash Blog - Comment - Like - Share

Ralf Rottmann, Victor Ryden, Jacob and 4 other people liked this

LANjackal to LANjackal's feed, All Things Google, TheNextWeb Forum, Coming Up NOW

Google won't run all the Wave servers | Webware - CNET - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17...

May 29 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

metalerik, Daniel Mietchen, immaterial and 51 other people liked this

"Google has said it will "federate" Wave. That means it will make it possible for anyone to operate their own Wave server and have it communicate with other Wave servers. This is just how e-mail works today: Anyone can run an e-mail server that can send messages to and receive messages from any other e-mail system. The Internet routes messages from server to server." - LANjackal from Bookmarklet

19 more comments

But note how many people moved to centralized web based email like yahoo, gmail, etc. - Todd Hoff

I'm just curious as to how identities will be managed across different Wave servers, as well as spam (Spave, or Wam lol?) prevention - LANjackal

The key with federation is that it enables private, public and third party servers that can communicate using wave protocol. Apps on those servers may not be all-wave, but it creates autonomy that corporations and business partners will need. It's a deep, deep rethink of the Web that's been sorely needed. Email is a travesty. - John Blossom

A) Identities will be managed by OpenID identity providers. You'll store your ID with someone, potentially even your own company, but more likely with a Google, or Facebook or Yahoo -most likely someone we "all" trust to ensure that you are your own unique individual. B) John & LANJackal are correct. The wave federation principal makes it such that any and all entities can run their own... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

@guruvan: Isn't all email centralized? :P I'm just saying. And yeah being the first to debut a technology is likely to get you most of the users. However, the article does point out that Wave is likely to be tough to develop for. That will need to change for widespread adoption to be the case. - LANjackal

I think it will be hard for people and companies to get to the point where they can have a client that's equal or better than Google's version of it. We do need more clients than just the Google one. - Peter Stuifzand

I'm not sure that I agree. I think there's plenty of potential client developers that could do an equal or better job. But, what I really think is that where client developers are going to succeed is in the niche products that support Wave. Google's product is likely to be good enough for nearly everyone for personal use, so I don't know that there's a big win for developers in that area, but specialized corporate wave applications and servers are likely to be a big hit. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

@guruvan: +1 on the corporate wave apps. That is, if you have a forward looking IT department. Those are vanishingly rare - LANjackal

Still struggling to get my head around just where this can go. The possibilities are endless. - Jamie

@Jamie: I'm sure you're not the only one, lol. I'm cautiously optimistic, though I'd be really excited if Facebook deployed it atop their messaging/chat system, which is currently horribly limited. I'm from the engineering field where IT departments still use IE6, so I'm not holding my breath to see it in any office I sit in anytime soon :( - LANjackal

Jamie: unless you're a developer or running a company that's in a space that's deeply affected by this, you have plenty of time to get your head around it. Realistically it's going to be at least 18mos before we really see any of this note into corporate environments. Remember, they're still at the point of blocking social media sites, so it's going to take a fundamental shift in attitudes before they'll want to adopt all of the technologies that a wave can encompass. - guruvan (Rob Nelson) from f2p

LANJackal I don't think that this is something that facebook can deploy wave on top of their chat. What they SHOULD do is rip that crap chat out and replace it with wave - guruvan (Rob Nelson) from f2p

@guruvan: Yeah I know. It seems to me though that Facebook deliberately avoids adding advanced capabilities to some of its features to prevent users from being scared off by a steep - for non-tech people - learning curve. As a result, chat is *really* dumbed down, and so is Notes, which has glaringly lacked a WYSIWYG editor since its inception. It's rather saddening :( - LANjackal

Having just watched the wave demo video, and now more intimately understanding the full implications of the idea (and the product) - I stand by my above statements, and my blog post. Facebook needs to catch the wave or get trounced in the marketplace. In my blog I mentioned that FriendFeed is the only one of the social networks that's supremely poised to take advantage of the wave.... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

@guruvan: "Facebook needs to catch the wave" ... Facebook has succeeded *despite* lacking advanced features such as WYSIWYG or proper chat formatting that other services have. Twitter has boomed despite having a featureset that could fit on the back of a business card. Don't get me wrong, Wave is great, but clearly as far as widespread adoption of a technology goes, it's not all about... more... - LANjackal

when can i get Google wave!!! - Joe Azzara

@Joe: Go to Mountain View, CA. Buy bottle of water. Douse self with said bottle ... - LANjackal

LANJackal, you're absolutely right. And I did point out somewhere, that a) Facebook has time, and B) Facebook just raised $200million. That buys them a lot, IMO. But, The fact is, that wave IS going to be easy to develop for, and it IS going to see rapid widespread adoption. (but that IS on the timeframe of 18months or so, so the above points still stand...there is time, but only if... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

this article is a good clarifier. just because it's google, it doesn't mean we should expect them to do all the work and hand it down to us on a silver platter. this requires cooperation of third parties for it to happen well. they're facilitating a change across services by introducing a new protocol, api, and federation based on existing technologies. to help others grasp an... more... - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

I just hope Wave is going to be simple and user friendly unlike Google Friend Connect. Well, to me anyway. Most of you probably are not having the same troubles but I am having a hard time uploading those two files after downloading them to my computer. It's just giving me a blank screen. Anyone knows why that is? Please message me on Twitter: RONJeremiah thanks a lot! - RON08

Robert Scoble

Twitter heading off editorial cliff? (Scripting News). The choices that Twitter has made editorially are wrong and very poor. Sigh. - http://www.scripting.com/stories...

June 20 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Michael R. Bernstein, Hieronymus Murphy, Kol Tregaskes and 46 other people liked this

Great post Dave, keep pointing this out. - Robert Scoble from Bookmarklet

38 more comments

Isn't it the responsibility of an individual who they follow? It was my assumption from the start that the SUL is biased and effectively worthless to me. - SawyerTraining, Inc.

Interesting. I hadn't considered the potentially insidious effect the Suggested Users List could have. - Teri Gidwitz

Great post and i really liked the link to professional poker and Twitter. - John Ford

This was an excellent post and Dave is 100% correct - The SUL is total bullshit! - Jim Connolly

Wow. I guess I didn't realize the extent of this situation. Great post by Dave - very eye-opening. - Curt Mercadante

Refinement of the system by which it is determined who follows whom could represent the next great leap forward for social networking. As this SUL issue exemplifies, there's a ton of inefficiency in how these choices get made. The SUL will soon give way to subtler, more intelligent ways of sparking connections. The paradigm of each person having static, manually managed list of... more... - Joshua Maurice

the biggest challenge here is understanding that Twitter is turning into an editor/publisher; not just a provider. could be a slippery slope. - MikeAmundsen

You can see the sense in having a SUL -- some people get on Twitter and have no idea whom to follow. Maybe they'll follow no one and join the large percentage of users who never come back after signing up. So giving some recommendations helps people get involved. But it seems like just about the bluntest possible instrument for achieving that end. - Joshua Maurice

The SUL as it stands isn't all that useful. It would be more useful (to users) to have one based on a friend-of-a-friend type of algorithm. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

The SUL is, sadly, not based on quality - It's based (according to Biz and Ev) on people they 'just happen' to like. - Jim Connolly

Wait a second, did I read that right? The people on the SUL are working in concert with Twitter to follow a code of conduct that Twitter approves of in order to be selected and remain on the SUL? WTF? I thought it was just a list of random people they thought would be interesting to new users. If commerce is involved as an end result doesn't this violate some laws too? Doesn't this also effect Twitter's Safe Harbor? - Adam Turetzky

Adam: I was kept off the SUL because I talk about friendfeed too much. - Robert Scoble

Sounds like bitter grapes from W(h)iner. Steven Johnson was put on the SUL and says he was surprised to have been selected. And Robert we know you don't really care because as you've said so many times it's not how many people follow you that counts it's how many *you* follow, right? - Sprague D

I'm not opposed to the SUL, but I think Twitter should be more transparent about how users are selected and they should probably be selected through a lottery system. - Peter Warnock

I think John (dendroica) is onto something with the "friend-of-a-friend type of algorithm." Let's try to keep the focus on this constructive question of how to advance social networks to the next level. We seem to be on the verge of being able to integrate semantically annotated content (the "what" of social networks) with the metadata about who, where, and when, and using all these to... more... - Joshua Maurice

Currently the SUL is a list, the next iteration will be a directory and later on natural and sponsored lists generated from keywords will be available to help new users start their Twitter experience, the ideal will be that the lists are ranked by quality but since this is difficult due to the number of profiles we will settle on popularity... sigh - Alberto Saavedra

Sprague: the number of followers does matter to many in society, as this post points out. By the way, why do you think I say that who you follow matters so much? Because your input will affect your output which will get you more followers. But my point is that you can either get followers by gaming the system (or having it gamed on your behalf like with the SUL) or you can get it by... more... - Robert Scoble

The whole idea of having some people you follow, and others you don't follow, will appear crude very soon -- I will want to see SOME data emanating from even the most "boring" people, and will want to filter out SOME data emanating from even the most interesting people. - Joshua Maurice

[deleting my own comment after regretting useless snarkiness] - Fred Yankowski

Seems a tempest in a teapot to me. Most don't even know the SUL is there. And others, like me, make a point of ignoring such lists assuming they'll be fluff and because they specifically don't want to read what everyone else is reading. Many websites routinely post Best Of lists and no one insists they divulge their editorial thinking or hints at dark conspiracies because they do so. So why the hubbub? (Unless of course, they get paid by those being ranked. Then, yes, absolutely, it should be made public.) - Bob Morris (polizeros)

Bob: the problem is that the SUL has artificially raised people's follower numbers. For instance, I've always had more followers on all social networks than TechCrunch. Including on Twitter. But when that account got added to the list it went from about 50,000 followers and today has more than 700,000 followers while I went from about 60,000 to about 95,000 today. So if you are a business that relies on audience (and you could say that about me) you are at a HUGE disadvantage if you aren't on the list. - Robert Scoble

I posted a comment on a TC article they wrote about twitter asking if the fact they are SUL does that influence the way they report about the company. My comment was promptly moderated into non-existence :0 - David Lloyd

Wish all these threads had ajax or something and I could drag them around in the order I want them. Make it happen please Robert! - David Lloyd

Mark: exactly. The SUL is a huge gift to media companies and certain people and they all know it and many have even changed the way they deal with Twitter. - Robert Scoble

When twitter grows exponentially some of these accounts are gonna have 5 or 10 million followers. That's a lot of $'s of value. - David Lloyd

ive said all along that certain blogs are able to pay at least one writers salary on the SUL bonus - Allen Stern

For me I guess it's a transparency issue. I don't care about getting on the SUL (I'm not that interesting), but I'd like to know what people and companies are doing to try and get on the list. - Eoghann Irving

Egohann: lots of people I know want to be on the list. I've heard that if you beg to get on the list, though, that you'll be blacklisted. I wonder how long it'll be before someone creates an account specifically to try to get onto the list. - Robert Scoble

"Sooner or later someone who they propelled to the top will do something bad." Dave Winer, 21 June 2009 - David Lloyd

I guess the concern is will people start doing "favors" to get on Twitter's SUL? Since there's no defined way to get on the list, it would be very easy to abuse that. You could end up with a lobbyist system almost. - Eoghann Irving

how does SUL figure into monetization of Twitter? both for Twitter owners and SUL account-holders? when money is linked to the SUL, how does that affect the content of those on the SUL? could you lose your place based on your content? does losing your place remove all your followers? does the content of SUL-ies get preferential search status? added reach outside Twitter? do these values go away if a SUL-ie is bumped off? - MikeAmundsen

Mike: no one knows because the SUL is totally at the whim of Twitter. - Robert Scoble

@Robert: if a SUL-ie pulls lots of followers, then is removed, i doubt the followers disappear. from my POV, this is another example of @Biz and @Ev not quite thinking through the implications of what they are doing. i admire their success. i'm happy for them. however, i think, as Dave implies, this is gonna turn ugly at some point. and i think Twitter may turn out looking bad in the process. - MikeAmundsen

mike they dont get removed - when i brought twitter the cupcakes to get on the list - i was told justine was removed yet she keeps her 500,000 followers - Allen Stern

plz understand that twitter is a marketing network, period. - Allen Stern

Twitter is used for marketing, but I don't think it's just a marketing network. There are a lot of people using it without any commercial interests at all. - Eoghann Irving

How do you apply editorial standards to something that lets you post things like: "I'm out of sugar" or "My toothbrush just fell in the toilet"? I think that we sometimes expect too much from social media sites.. - J. Abdul-Qahhar

@Allen: yep - totally makes sense. now i imagine some future scenario where someone on the SUL starts saying really bad things about Twitter (or anything else Twitter-folks care about). Ev/Biz can pull them, but they've already created a monster; can't put the toothpaste back in the tube; etc w/ the cliches. now multiply this by the number of folks on the list and that's millions of bad news threads in the blog-o-sphere. - MikeAmundsen

Mike - I call this "keeping the top on top" and Twitter isn't alone with this problem... - Allen Stern

Robert Scoble

I like the new Tweetdeck iPhone app for Twitter. What is your favorite Twitter app for iPhone and why? Tell us here:

June 19 - Comment - Like - Share

Tyson Key, TheHenry, William Buist and 20 other people liked this

My personal review is here: http://www.24100.net/2009... - Ralf Rottmann

80 more comments

tweetie - Roamlog

And here is why I continue to stay with... Tweetie! http://www.24100.net/2009... - Ralf Rottmann

twitterfon - simple and it works. - Taavi Uudam

Wish @atebits would do a FriendFeed client though. None of those available is half as good as what we've got for Twitter. - Ralf Rottmann

It was Tweetie, but now it's TweetDeck. - Nathan Chase

Definitely TweetDeck for me. - Nir Ben Yona

Tweetie is my favorite right now, but TweetDeck's cross-platform and now-mobile syncing is getting my attention. - Julio

I'm holding on to TweetDeck, even though it's a bit "crashy" right now. Have confidence they'll fix that. - Mark Traphagen

I just love the new Tweetdeck app ! - Jean-François Amadei

Julio hit it on the head - the syncing between platforms is the killer feature to beat - Nathan Chase

Love TweetDeck on iPod Touch! - Bob Starr

The sync between iPhone and desktop on TweetDeck is a cool feature - rshore

so far my favorite is Reportage. I have tweetdeck installed, but i find it difficult to read, not so with any other twitter client. TweetDeck remains on of my 2 favorite desktop clients, the other being the web client TwitZap.com - Ralph Friedman

Tweetdeck if they can squash the bugs because the syncing is good news. Tie between Tweetie and Twittelator for now. - Warner Crocker

TweetDeck. Syncing to cloud, free. - Ben

Tweetie is favorite for best duplicating the desktop experience. But Tweetdeck has great potential with the syncing feature. It crashes too much right now. - Curt Moss

I've been happy using twitterfon, but I've been playing with tweetdeck, it looks like I might have to switch, syncing is a killer feature - Ken Power

I use Tweetie. The reviews I've seen of Tweetdeck make it seem a bit too much for the iPhone. Are those reviews wrong? - Curt Mercadante

Tweetdeck is the only iPhone app for twitter - planetMitch

I'm still sticking with Twitteriffic. I moved over to Twitterfon because it started lacking with features, but moved back when it finally got the update it so needed. Don't really know why i like it so much, just always have. Just wish they'd update the desktop version too. - Simon Wicks

Curt: it hasn't crashed on me yet. - Robert Scoble

Photogene because I can brand my photos with a text bubble before I upload. - Craig Shipp

Twittelator Pro: myriad of features including URL inline minification/expansion; configurable RT format, pic provider, URL minifier; copy&paste; saving drafts; tweet URLs from Safari; and many more. one of the best apps I have purchased. - Dennis Homann

Has crashed when using its browser feature - Mark Traphagen

My must have iPhone Apps are: > Tweetie > TwitterLink - Allows Safari URL Shortening via bookmarklets > TweetDeck Hopefully TweetDeck can incorporate a few of the missing compenents which are keeping me from dropping the other two apps. - Josh

Still tweetie. Tried others as they emerge, but the familliar interface to a desktop client, search, find user, favorite, trends all make it very powerful. A rework of the RT vs. Via is in order, but I can live with that. - Erik Boles

Definately TweetDeck since it's been launched - Michiel Sikkes

TweetDeck on the iPhone looks great, but I think it's pretty buggy. I constantly get the same notifications displayed and my groups got messed up (and then synced back to the desktop). But I'm looking forward to the next version. - Oliver Bouchard

Twitterrific without hesitating. Tried TweetDeck but still a little buggy in my opinion. - Nuno Ferreira

I use Twitterific and I'm pretty fine with it/ - Parth Awasthi

Tweetie. And, judging from the desktop client, it's only going to get better. - Justin Hileman

I like Tweetie, Twitterrific and TweetDeck but also Twittelator which has a 'Groups' function. Really just waiting for the Seesmic iPhone app which will hopefully sync with Seesmic Desktop a la TweetDeck. - Nick Reynolds

Twittelator. No other iphone app is as feature rich as this one. It also works well with backgrounder (from cydia). - Rohit

Twitterrific has to be the best with UI. - Rohit

I actually use the FriendFeed mobile interface more than anything else to view twitter on my iPod, but after that I use twitterfon. As Taavi said above, it's simple and it works. Thinking about trying the tweetdeck though. My son has it and likes it. - Alex Hellstrom

I went from Twittelator to Tweetie and now to Tweetdeck on iPhone. Tweetdeck is the best thing out there right now IMO for hardcore tweeting, However, Tweetie still rules as a simple, elegant, beautiful UI, client for everyone else. - Dean Kakridas

Tweetie. TweetDeck for iPhone is nice and is a smooth port from desktop to smartphone, but Tweetie is cleaner to me, not as dark or cluttered. - David Price

Alex: yeah I use friendfeed a lot more than other Twitter clients, even on my iPhone. - Robert Scoble

i tried tweetdeck but i like Twittelator Pro more - Crusader

Switched to Tweetdeck after using Twitfon and Twitterific - Jim Haw

Tweetdeck, recent convert from tweetie. It crashes when you add someone to a group column is all. - Jay McCormack

TweetDeck needs Ping.fm integration for selective posting..it feels the lightest of the iPhone Twitter apps and feature wise I think it may now be the most complete..2nd fave is Tweetie. - George Dearing

I'm liking Tweetdeck also but I bounce around from Twitterific to Tweetie also. Like the multiple columns in Tweetdeck. - Jeff Gamble

Definitely Tweetdeck.. I wish I hadn't paid for tweetie.. - Can Koklu

TweetDeck after using TwitterFon for a while. Never used Tweetie and probably won't now. Background notifications on the iPhone would be cool. I can use it for @replys or DMs. - Rolf Schewe

Sadly, I don't have an iphone. Anyone know of a good free symbian app? - Pranav Bhasin

still using tweetie - have tweetdeck if I need to reference through my groups. but when i am mobile i usually only have time to pay attention to replies and directs - so speed and such is more important. Tweetie wins for me. - Tony

I like Tweetie. Nice streamlined interface. Although Tweetdeck is nice, I just haven't used it as much since it came out. - John Fox

Twitterfon, but I might try Tweetdeck now - Paul

I am still using Tweetie but just installed TweetDeck.. seems cool. - nickgs

Love new tweetdeck on iPhone but it's too crashy, darn it! - Susan Beebe

No mention of Nambu here. I use that on MacBook. Anyone use their iPhone client? What do you like/dislike about it? - Larry Hawes

Tweetie, until TweetDeck fixes stability and adds ability to bookmark links. - Tech Introvert

I have tried Nambu but use Twittelator Pro and occasionally Twitterific. Tweetdeck would have to be exceptionally good to be better than either of those. - Gilbert Harding

Tried Tweetdeck (which is my desktop app) on iPhone for a couple of days. Too fiddly. Went back to Twitterfon. Really compact and streamlined. Now trying out Flock on desktop instead if Firefox/Tweetdeck combo. - Narain Jashanmal

it seems to crash every so often. - Francisco Kemeny

Although I have been playing with tweetdeck these past few days, I would still vote for tweetie - Thomas Chai

@Pranav Bhasin: Gravity is a good twitter app for symbian. - Hugh Macdonald

I'm using Tweetie, but edging closer to trying Tweetdeck. Tweetie does do everything I need right now. - Martha

TweetDeck! Used to be Tweetie, but TweetDeck is far better! - Farrell Kramer

Nambu is cool, multiple accounts, persistent search etc, integrated with tr.im/pic.im, unfortunately friendfeed and facebook are still "currently disabled" - Liviu Barbat

I use TwitterFon (nonPro), but have been trying TweetDeck out. It is a little buggy as so far it has crashed out everytime I have used it, but I know this is v1 so am sure it will get better. I actually really like the interface as it is very well thought out. My only other gripe is that you need to go into a tweet's detail to go to a hyperlink, as opposed to twitterfon (and tweetie... more... - Travis Koger

Twitterrific 2.0 (The $4 Premium version). The UI is just spectacular. Combining all your replies and DMs in one stream, but still allowing them to be viewed separately, makes it really easy to interact with Twitter as a stream. Plus, more often than not, I find myself using the multi-post window to easily switch a DM to a reply, or vice versa. It's just great. - David Chartier

Twitterrific 2.0 , tweetie and Tweetdeck in that order - Wayne Sutton

TweetDeck, despite the occasional crashing, is my favorite right now. - Paul Maez

Tweetdeck for sure. I like the feel and look of it. - John Ford

Twitterrific and twitterfon for picking ppl across tweets to thank. - Dave from BuddyFeed

I think I'm still partial to Twitterific - Matthew Vaughan

I use Tweetie. I tried TweetDeck but it crashed when doing what should have been simple operations. - Michael Koby

Reportage has a very refreshing approach. I love it - Guillaume Thoreau

oh Robert Robert... you should really add a poll to your threads from time to time :) as for your question: I have to say that TweetDeck is not my fav until someone new will launch a better app. - Orli Yakuel

I use Nambu because of Friendfeed integration, but if TweetDeck gets this I would definitely switch - Alberto Saavedra from Nambu

Had Twitterific and TwitterFon for seperate accts, but TweetDeck is the best of the bunch. - Dave Martinez

I bought Tweetie, but it seems limited after using other Twitter apps. My favorite is SimplyTweet, lots of features that work well and is being updated often. - Brandon from BuddyFeed

I was a Tweetie guy, but Tweetdeck may be replacing it for me. - Joey Gibson

I played with TweetDeck and liked it, but I simply don't use all of the custom panel stuff that it does, so Tweetie does the job for me just fine. The UI is awesome, responsive and (above all) simple. It does exactly what I want and, more importantly, what I expect it to do. - Brett Kelly

Tweetie : very stable and reliable. Does need a refresh but nice customization options make it for that. - ashish

TweetDeck is my favourite app for the iPhone, although Tweetie is a close second. The sync feature and what I think is slightly better navigation through the different columns put TweetDeck ahead. TweetDeck is also free, which if I hadn't already bought Tweetie, may have had some importance. - 321

I like Tweetie because if I get behind or want to see older tweets, I can just click "More" and it loads more of them. Can't figure out how to do that on the desktop version of TweetDeck, so I'm assuming teh iPhone version doesn't do it either. - RobinDotNet

I like Tweetie. I tried the new TweetDeck and couldn't get into it. So my combo is seesmic on the desktop and Tweetie on the iPhone. We'll see what happens when seesmic introduces their iPhone app, though. - Josh Asbury

Was twitterfon fan but the Tweetdeck groups sync is a winner. - Gregory Go from iPhone

Mike Elliott

I will have to say that after being an early sceptic of the new FriendFeed UI (I am a creature of habit) I am officially sold. I'm using it more, interacting more and getting more out of it than ever. We've also started using it as a real time collaboration tool for our business and it is awesome.

May 28 - Comment - Like - Share

Wayne Sutton, Morton Fox, Ingrid and 39 other people liked this

pls let me me know whether "edit" anytime without versions is acceptable to your business... - Kishore Balakrishnan

25 more comments

I'm going to give it another try. - Dominic Jones

So far we're using it as a combination monitoring/live forum tool. We monitor client/team social media activity and use hashtag convention with saved advanced searches to enable quick access to threads (i.e. #note, #task, #question). It's been great so far for sharing research across dispersed social media platforms and getting messages in front of the entire team quickly. With the popup notifier it beats any I.M. system or email for our use. - Mike Elliott

This post earns you a "list bump" from a lesser-viewed list to a front page list. See if it has any effect. - Louis Gray

Agreed at first weird, however now I have pretty much abandoned Google Reader, once you get your head around as you guys obviously have you can slice dice, push and pull almost any content into your own dashboard. Sort of like a Shogun of Feeds. Two Thumbs way up! Dean - Deano @ Byron New Media

FriendFeed - Making productive use of my time on the internet, with it's "My Discussions". Can't think of another site that can make this claim. Good point using it in the office, makes me think..... - Mike Nencetti

I don't understand why the lack of versioning would be a critical issue; if you've got people in your company trying to be deliberately misleading through editing, I think FriendFeed is the least of your worries. - Tristan Seligmann

Tristan - I couldn't agree more. I guess it depends on how big the team is, in which case you could further segment rooms. Ours is small and it's been working great. - Mike Elliott

Louis, thank you. - Mike Elliott

Byron - Still haven't abandoned Google Reader though I'm spending less time there. I honestly never got into Twitter or FaceBook on an active basis. It was conversation overload. Even with the old UI I always found myself coming back to FriendFeed because after exhausting all other sources I always seem to find the most interesting content faster in here. - Mike Elliott

I'm glad to see this conversation ticking along. Is anyone aware of anyone teaching this stuff. I would love to see how friendfeed is being used in it's most advanced form. Dean - Deano @ Byron New Media

Byron - Don't know of anybody specifically who teaches this stuff. I've been trying to make a screencast whenever I learn something new. I'm always looking for ideas for new ones so if there's something you want to learn how to do let me know and I will make one and put it up on my blog. - Mike Elliott

@Tristan - Deletes or changes may not be intentionally done to mislead others... but will change the context of replies in a long exchange... - Kishore Balakrishnan

Have you seen Scoble's video? http://qik.com/video/1622325. - Kevin Whalen from email

sovereignjohn - Google got it right from what I saw on that video and FriendFeed has had it right since the beginning. Instead of trying to pack on more features and bog down their UI they both have kept it clean and simple. If you use this stuff every day you just want it to work and to be able to get to the data you need quickly and sort it into contexts meaningful to you. So many platforms out their think more is better but less is more. - Mike Elliott

@Kishore That is a good point. That is the danger of the delete I guess. Not to turn this into a Wave conversation but from the video it looked like their solution with conversation playback would take care of that, unless of course the individual user is able to delete their contribution to the thread. The way that whole setup looked in the video reminded me of FriendFeed though. - Mike Elliott

@Kevin Whalen - Thanks Kevin, that is Awesome! - Mike Elliott

Mike - No problem! Scoble also has a video tutorial he did a while back in the old UI. - Kevin Whalen from email

I have been quite inspired by this thread. I blogged about Mike's awesome video here http://deepfriendfeed.tumblr.com/post... and @Kevin Whalen I blogged about Robert Scoble's video here http://deepfriendfeed.tumblr.com/post... I created a Friendfeed group http://friendfeed.com/deep-fr... for anyone interested in discussing the potential of Friendfeed and strategies and tactics you might be currently using. Dean - Deano @ Byron New Media

Byron, I really appreciate that. I don't know if you saw it but I did another quick one about advanced searches on FriendFeed a couple weeks ago and showed some comparisons with results from other search options especially as it relates to identifying socially active content. It's on my blog at intelligendo.com. You've definitely inspired me to do some more. I'm obsessed with exploring... more... - Mike Elliott

That's my pleasure, Mike. It's exciting stuff. My name is Dean Power and I'm really starting to see the benefits of tweeting and friendfeeding with my actual name. I did notice the other video thx for sharing and I will blogging about it at http://deepfriendfeed.tumblr.com soon. All the best. Dean - Deano @ Byron New Media

Byron, let me know if there are any specific questions you have about FriendFeed and/or would like to see any screencasts for specific features. I am always looking for ideas. Also, I'm working on a new set up to test using private rooms in place of email for people I converse with frequently. I've got email threads with over 50 items and it seems like it would be much easier to follow... more... - Mike Elliott

Mike - I'm would be curious in hearing your "new set up to test using private rooms in place of email". - Kevin Whalen from email

Kevin - You got it. I will do a screencast tomorrow and show you the setup we're using so you can try it out. I'm just starting to find other ways to use the interface that make sense. These long email threads with frequent contacts, especially people collaborating on projects become daunting to navigate after awhile and I think FriendFeed interface might make it easier, especially if you agree on some common tagging conventions for thread navigation. - Mike Elliott

Awesome! Thanks! - Kevin Whalen from email

I am so proud of you for jumping into all of this Social Media stuff like this. I can't believe how awesome your friendfeed embed is, now I am jealous. You rock. How come all of the cool guys talk to you and I am just a pretty face that no one listens too??? Oh well, that is just the way the world turns, I have to work twice as hard - but at least I am married to a genius, that makes it all worth it. I wish you would show me how to do some screencasts!! - T.S. Elliott

This embed is great! You're a social media genius! - Ingrid

Steve Rubel

The New York Times takes a look at Twitter's preferred user list http://www.nytimes.com/2009...

June 14 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Iván Abrego, Barty, Andrey Smirnov and 62 other people liked this

I think this is the single worst thing that Twitter did against its community. But, Twitter has learned it can beat its users up with a variety of tools and we'll never leave. For two years the service was down all the time (famous fail whale making its rounds) and now search is often down, they treat developers inconsistently or poorly at worst, and they decide who will be superstars... more... - Robert Scoble

115 more comments

Funny, on both friendfeed and Facebook I have more followers than TechCrunch does (well, I did until Arrington deleted his account here on friendfeed). By artificially giving TechCrunch hundreds of thousands of followers they have given TechCrunch a very real financial reward. Same to NYT. - Robert Scoble

Scoble, good to see that you still feel this way after your meetup with @ev. :-) - Dave Winer

Dave: I got the consolation prize: a shot of Scotch whisky . ;-) - Robert Scoble

And you get to keep our respect. - Dave Winer

Dave: I thought it would only be A listers or media types who care about this issue, since we know that 1,000 people can generate a LOT of money. Look at the Demo Conference, for instance. About 1,500 people are in the audience and they each pay $1,500 to be there (or more). Then there's up to 60 companies on stage and they each pay $18,000 to talk to that audience. It's a great model. Arrington has already been gifted half a million followers by Twitter. That's HUGE economic value. But... - Robert Scoble

I am blocked from following @TechCrunch :O - Tom Warren

At the recent Twitter conference you should have heard all the regular Twitter users griping about the recommended follower list. They hate it because they know they'll never get on it and even if they were added to it for some reason (some people do win the lottery) they will never catch up to people who've been on it since February, which makes them distrust the system. People are even calling followers you get the hard way "organic." - Robert Scoble

It's completely off-brand, unless perhaps we all misunderstood the brand to begin with... and the idea that people who get themselves onto their own A list "organically", says it all --- the term is an apt definition: the opposite of "paid" in this emerging digital media platform. Makes you sorta hope FriendFeed kicks their commercial ass. That'll learn 'em to go all Hollywood on us. - Thom Kennon

I sympathize with arguments against the SUL as being unfair (although I don't really see how an algorithmic approach would not have its own problems), but I don't agree that the economic value is huge. In fact, I'd like to see some honest reckoning of what the economic value might. The truth is, everybody is seeing incredibly lousy clickthrough rates from twitter users (Winer reported 0.5% I think from his) which means chump change from display ads and probably worse for things like your conference pricing. - Jacob Harris

Two other things to note about the value of being on the SUL: 1) any value from link traffic/actions probably doesn't scale linearly 2) any value for link traffic should be assessed in terms of relative worth (eg, 600K followers might be a bigger deal to a site with no traffic vs. a site with lots). Ultimately, I find myself agreeing with @jeffjarvis that it's a much more meaningless metric to worry about, and that the impact of being on twitter at all pales compared to what the rest of the world is doing. - Jacob Harris

At the very least, the SUL is distorting to the essential value of Twitter - and its implied brand identity. However, in fairness to ev@ and @biz, I don't think they understood what they were doing when they created the SUL: they thought they were helping new users who didn't know what to do on Twitter, and who were therefore leaving the service after a short period of experimentation. - Jason Pontin

Robert Scoble: TechCrunch team is more powerful than yours.Sigh. - Igor Poltavskiy

cmon now - the list has massive value - just look at erick's post today on tc - he barely mentions that he is on the default list - yet look at the traffic they are seeing - in fact, where is Yuvi - let him calculate what that traffic equates to in terms of cash - i bet it equals robin's salary for the year (or any other tc writer) im betting mashable sees even more traffic from the... more... - Allen Stern

"The Amount And Value Of Twitter Traffic" - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Ken Sheppardson

"For TechCrunch, Twitter = Traffic (A Statistical Breakdown)" - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Ken Sheppardson

(just adding a couple of footnotes) - Ken Sheppardson

Thanks for the links. Based on the last article, it seems like about 7% of traffic to TC comes from the Techcrunch account and some part of that is due to the SUL. But beyond that, we don't know, especially since TC claimed those new users have not been so useful. We also don't have actual numbers beyond the 120K _monthly_ hits from twitter reported in Feb. Let me try though, 120K * ~$23 CPM = $2760 a month (out of $200K total a month). Or am I totally wrong here? - Jacob Harris

Addl. References: http://www.businessinsider.com/2008... - Jacob Harris

Ref for the $200K total: http://www.mahalo.com/techcru... - Jacob Harris

Jason, agreed that their intentions were benign. I am wondering what algorithms would work instead, if you wanted to keep the editorial judgment out of it and still wanted to give a user accounts to follow that aren't just finding their friends. Some pop to mind, but I wonder about spammers gaming them or other runaway effects that might occur. Interesting to contemplate. - Jacob Harris

Jacob where do you get the $23/cpm? does that add up ALL of the ads on the page? does that include the fact that TC meta-auto-refreshes their page? etc - I think it's way more than that. - Allen Stern

Jacob - as I've noted before the current list actually HURTS twitter - why not ask the new user for 2-3 interests and location and offer suggestions based on that? it's not perfect but as i said on the cupcake video, offering someone who is interested in food - mashable/tc/oprah/dooce/sai/shaq/justine is of no worth and probably pushes the user away quick. - Allen Stern

Allen, you wouldn't even have to ask the user anything to quickly and algorithmically find 20 random users for them to follow. Just 20 random users would be fine -- a lot of the people on the SUL hardly ever update. And the clickthrough rate of a SUL member isn't all that different from my click-through rate. I've tested that too. - Dave Winer

Allen, I assume that when you asked to be put on the list you were told no? - Dave Winer

i actually looked at the list yesterday - Allen Stern

Allen, the first link I posted is about the CPM (although negotiated should be lower). You're right there might be multi ads on a page, but I'm trying to get an actual estimate of worth here, so discussion is fine. I think randomized could lead to pointing to a bunch of dormant accounts or a "Twitter PROMOTES PORN!" snafu pretty quickly, which is why many internet sites manually edit frontpages (the "Mullet strategy"), etc. - Jacob Harris

The Mullet Strategy: http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzz... - Jacob Harris

Still thinking about TC reported in Feb. getting about 120K monthly hits from twitter. This is where I think any calculation of impact and arguments of favoritism would have to take into account the total traffic "wealth" of the recipient. 120K hits a month might be a lot for TC; it's not for the NYT. And so I don't think we can say the impact is the same for all recipients (something the article noted as well). - Jacob Harris

My thoughts here are more societal. Why do we care so much about this list? If Twitter gets lists like Friendfeed has then they will be increasingly less relevant as the reecommendations get smarter. - Steve Rubel

Robert, I've said this to you on more than one occasion: Folks like you don't need the list, you have many people who follow you to different services and echo your thoughts. Guys like me, who get ignored by the tech media even though we use new and innovative tech methods to help people? The Twitter SUL has helped me save lives (and no, it's not hyperbole here). I would NEVER have had... more... - Brandon Mendelson

Brandon, how did the SUL help you save lives? Are you on it? - Dave Winer

Dave, yes I am (or was, I don't know if I still am at this point). The short version: I promote the early detection of cancer. The list gave me an opportunity to travel across America, sleep on the couch of folks following me on Twitter, and promote the early detection of cancer at colleges and cities across the country. Based on many emails from folks whom I met on my trip, I... more... - Brandon Mendelson

(and I realize it's hard to tell from just text, but my previous comment to Mr. Scoble is said with the utmost respect.) - Brandon Mendelson

Thanks for letting me know, it's a good story. - Dave Winer

I don't mind the intent of the Suggested User List. My gripe is the people who are on it--who create lots of noise. When people join Twitter, don't know what to do, and follow SUL accounts, it's no wonder either they 1) give up quickly; or 2) start emulating them in their own tweets. Or worse, people tweet so-called celebrities, hoping for a response, get disenchanted, and give up. - Ari Herzog

Brandon: the idea that I only report on what my friends in the valley are doing is absolute bullshit. I'm happy you got on the list. But what I saw is that tons of people who compete with me, but had fewer followers, got put on the list. You're probably the only example of something good that was on the list. Even with you, though, I know TONS of people who are raising money and awareness for various causes. Why aren't THEY on the list? - Robert Scoble

The list, like most lists, is simply a sham. - Ken Camp

I'll say here the same thing I said on twitter. It's all smoke and mirrors. Twitter chose the so-called popular kids and should simply own it. They did exactly what happens for any movie star. They gave more to a select few, granted them extra followers and status. Who pays the price for that. People like me who work hard and actually truly engage with those in the network. What makes... more... - Sheryl

I think a lot of the Twitter list are people many don't really think are worth that kind of attention. - Patricia

Robert, as I said in my DM, I should have clarified, that particular comment was not aimed at you (it was at what I felt was biased coverage, mostly from TechCrunch.) As far as other folks who do many good things not being on the list, I do not know, BUT I do make an effort to spotlight them and connect the people following me every opportunity that I can. I do apologize for not being clear on my previous comment. - Brandon Mendelson

Also worth noting: I know exactly how those folks feel when they do not get the attention they deserve. We were very frustrated we couldn't get the tech media to even look at what we were doing for those battling cancer and helping the homeless. - Brandon Mendelson

@Brandon, I'd have to say I agree on that. The ego generation or whatever this group/thing is called kind of suck in that sense. I care about causes, not people's money, connections, etc. A few years ago Fox wouldn't cover a charity event because they felt it was more important to cover Paris Hilton and her DUI stuff. Such a pity. - Patricia

@Patricia it's sad but true, and in defense of the tech media, the mainstream media is far worse at covering causes unless there is a side benefit to them. - Brandon Mendelson

@Brandon, I would disagree. I think they're both bad. I have worked in media biz almost my entire life - how long have you worked in it? Maybe you see something I don't? In my opinion, both blogs and media do it -- and don't do it. It's like anything else. There are the bad and good. - Patricia

@Patricia. Eight years. We should take this to another thread though. - Brandon Mendelson

They had to let new folks start *somewhere*. Is this *somewhere* the best? No. But it's better than nothing. - drew olanoff

sorry disagree drew - Allen Stern

@brandon, yes!! i'd love that kind of discussion with someone knowledgable on it as you are! - Patricia

the list is setup to make sure that the celebs are happy, twitter looks huge and the fluffer blogs get paid. that's what i see as the net. - Allen Stern

@Allen I suspected you would, and this is why the interwebs is great :) I've personally watched hundreds of new Twitter members try to figure out where to start. They get frustrated. Now does Mom and Pop regular Joe want to follow you and me, or do they want to follow Britney Spears and Shaq? Come on. - drew olanoff

drew: you have a point there, but I think that when you make technology choices that you've gotta think through the consequences of your choices. Why didn't Twitter make a deal with an outside organization like AllTop? That would have been cleaner than doing it by a human inside their organization. It really messed with the reputation of Twitter as a dispassionate platform service. - Robert Scoble

Robert: Twitter can't tap an outside source for that type of thing. They have to remain an independent platform that allows people to build on top of them. Imagine if they picked/integrated Alltop for this, wow people like us would freak. Ya know when Digg is down and they have staff suggested links? Why aren't we complaining about why that isn't democratic? - drew olanoff

I personally like "Staff picks" on iTunes, and could care less who the staff is. That's how I see this Twitter list. Only reason why people are freaking is because....well it works lol. - drew olanoff

Drew - i have said all along (and will post about it tomorrow if i feel better) is that having a list is a great thing - but having the right list is crucial - and twitter doesn't have that. - Allen Stern

what's odd about the list is that NOW it's dominated by celebs except for "Allison" she's been on the list since day 1..Who IS she & why is she on the list? - David J. Garcia from twhirl

100% agreed with your points Drew. And I'm happy Twitter did it internally, if it was farmed out to another valley company (just as an example) I feel it would again keep the web's spotlight on the same group of folks and not allow for new voices to get through. - Brandon Mendelson

@David Allison is a musician. Don't know much else about her but I would qualify her as a celebrity as well. - Brandon Mendelson

Allen: There is no right list. What's right to you will be super wrong to everyone else. Vice versa apparently. - drew olanoff

Drew - what I would like to see is a list that matches people to interests and location - the example i keep using is that a new user who is interested in food getting the tc feed is worthless. And interestingly - the people on that list are apparently floating over to the default list here because of the twitter import option. that's a different topic tho :) - Allen Stern

drew: the reason it sucks is because this list makes it very easy to subscribe to the whole list and totally screws with follower numbers. Twitter picks the stars. The rest of us are second class citizens. Far different from how, say, friendfeed's list works. - Robert Scoble

drew: the way Twitter did this list is yet more evidence that Twitter takes the lazy road through its engineering decisions. There's a reason why we see so many fail whales. They don't design systems the best way, just the lazy way. The fact that you're defending the lazy way makes me wonder. It doesn't take much to do things an algorithmic way that isn't corruptible and that is a meritocracy, not a reward system for doing things the staff members like. - Robert Scoble

@Robert, It may be easy, but no one is forced to subscribe to anyone, they make the choice. And @Allen, I believe the Twitter folks have said in the news they would be changing the list soon to be more topical to a user - Brandon Mendelson

brandon - when i did my cupcake series last week and met with a twitter employee, she said nothing of the like when i brought up my ideas - and robert - im not sure i completely agree with the "lazy" way- i think its more about what benefits twitter. - Allen Stern

Brandon: you are the beneficiary of a HUGE gift. Your judgment on this topic is in question, sorry. Why YOU? Why not the thousands of other organizations and people who are doing great work? Why not all? And why not make it a meritocracy? Why defend a system where some people get picked to be royalty? That system sucks. - Robert Scoble

Allen: every time I see Twitter employees speak about the list they are very uncomfortable. They know they took the lazy way through this. - Robert Scoble

robert - aah... i wish that i had a chance to really interview them about it but all i got was 3 minutes - i had no appointment because i had no idea how to contact them since my customer service inquiries went unanswered - Allen Stern

@Robert, my judgement shouldn't be in question (and as a reverse of what you said to me, if you've been following me long enough, you know I call things as I see it.) I like the list because it is beneficial to new people coming to Twitter. End of story. Is it perfect? Of course not but the Twitter team has said they will be changing it soon, so my attitude is they will fix it. - Brandon Mendelson

Brandon: actually, most of the people on the list are NOT new people. Most of the people on the list are either large brands or celebrities. There are only a couple of exceptions, you're one of them. If there were more exceptions I might agree. - Robert Scoble

As far as other organizations, I don't know. What I do know though is that because I was given the gift, I make every effort to help those who did not. I can't say the same to be true for the tech media outlets (not yourself or Louis gray as I enjoy both of your blogs) but the outlets I identified in this thread. - Brandon Mendelson

@Robert, that is a very fair point. - Brandon Mendelson

Robert: Re: Lazy engineering, now thats a discussion worth having. Lazy or not, it was definitely the quick and dirty approach...which isn't always the best approach. - drew olanoff

I actually would argue that making qualititative assessments about which accounts to follow with quantitative algorithms is not necessarily as simple as one might think. Especially if you want to avoid scenarios where power accrues to the earliest adopters instead. Randomization adds an element of risk ("why is twitter promoting a neonazi account?"). So, it's lazy and opaque to us, but it's internally accountable at least for them, so I can understand why they did it this way. - Jacob Harris

What I don't understand and what has irritated me from the get-go is how hostility to twitter over the SUL has crossed the line at times to attacks on people and orgs on the list, under the assumption that SUL membership is such a massively valued gift it can't but help corrupt the recipient. And that's when this goes from an academic discussion to open warfare. If you have a problem with twitter, I can respect that. But let's keep out of the dark conspiracy theories where everybody is on the take. - Jacob Harris

Jacob: when people get things they did NOT earn that calls into question the whole system. - Robert Scoble

@Robert no, it just leads to this cynical trip through the looking glass where the SUL is not a dumb application of a necessary evil but a sinister tool for control wielded by the dark hand of @ev. Something they did NOT earn? Come on. What did people you link to or podcast about do to earn that versus other? Much as we might not like it, it's twitter's call whom they decide to pick, but that is NOT the fault of people on the SUL. - Jacob Harris

I don't really have a problem with the SUL, I really do think it will improve over time. What I do have a problem with is Twitter lack of ability to teach new users how to use the service. Suggesting people to follow is a great idea and a great place to start, but that's all it is. If Twitter wants new users to hang around they should really invest their time in educating them about the service. Show them how to @reply, DM, search, find new people to follow, etc. They really suck at that. - Shawn Hickman

Jacob: cynical? Oprah got put on the list after only doing a few Tweets and only being on Twitter a week. How did the Twitter team know she would be a good Twitterer? Is she really better as a Twitterer than, say, you? Or Leo Laporte? Or anyone else who has put a lot more of their lives into Twitter? The problem is that Twitter wants to be a platform player, which requires building a... more... - Robert Scoble

And, Jacob, how do we know that there weren't some "backrubs" to get on the list? iJustine got on the list (for a while, at least). What did she do for Twitter? She brought them cupcakes. She had fewer followers than Leo, Guy, Jason, me. Yet she got on the list. How about Arrington? He didn't pimp friendfeed. He had fewer followers than Leo, Guy, Jason, and me. Yet he got on the list,... more... - Robert Scoble

Robert, simple. The SUL never meant user X was a better twitterer, it merely meant that twitter thinks he might be interesting to new users. And I'm sorry to say but people like you and me ARE less interesting to new users that Oprah. Yes, it's a flawed system and some cynicism towards twitter is probably due (what's this "you guys?"), but I object to corrosive paranoia where everyone on the SUL is considered ethically suspect by association. - Jacob Harris

I don't resent those who got on the list, but I do have to wonder why I'm the only person in the top 10 _before_ the SUL who has never made the SUL. I can only think that Twitter has something against me and that kind of bias would be a problem, no? 125,000 thought it worth following me but not Twitter? - Leo Laporte

Jacob: OK, but a cat made the list. Really? You really are defending this list? - Robert Scoble

Leo: I had the most followers two years ago on Twitter and I've never been on the list as far as I know. There's someone at Twitter who doesn't like me for some reason, it might even have been a technical problem (I was one of the few who used @replies to see everyone who @replied me, which they say caused their systems lots of problems). But I also talk about friendfeed endlessly. I wouldn't put me on such a list either. - Robert Scoble

I think they decided against you because you were too noisy. I think they decided against me because I was too critical. - Leo Laporte

Leo: I think it was because of friendfeed. Funny that I'm #1 here on friendfeed and #1 over on facebook too. Too noisy? They put a freaking cat on the list. What's noisier than that? Geesh. I think it was something else. I pissed someone at Twitter off and that was that. - Robert Scoble

Robert, my attitude is twitter can pick whom they want and it doesn't affect how I feel about myself as a human being. You can decide whom you want to interview or blog about and it doesn't mean they're better or worse than I am. Google can tweak pagerank to boost or decrement sites and it's their perogative. I am not defending the list, but I think the discussion over it has been too tied up with assumptions of self-worth and too quick to condemn those who find themselves linked for some reason. - Jacob Harris

I far prefer lists where they are meritocracies and where you can earn your way up the lists by doing great content and getting audiences to engage with you. - Robert Scoble

Well, last I checked anybody can unfollow like that on twitter too. I guess the real question though is how many followers for SUL accounts are active users or abandons. - Jacob Harris

Jacob: it has nothing to do with how I feel about myself. Getting on these lists affects my livelihood. Anyone on these lists has been gifted real economic value. I used to work at a magazine with 100,000 subscribers and we made millions in revenue every year. - Robert Scoble

Jacob: TechCrunch just wrote about the traffic they are getting because they were put on the list. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... Getting on this list is very real economic value. It used to be that we got our audiences organically by earning them. Now we have to give someone at Twitter a backrub to get on the list to earn our audiences. - Robert Scoble

It could very well be that we both pissed someone off at Twitter. Oh well. Friendfeed is much more interesting anyway. I think we'll both be around a lot longer than either. - Leo Laporte

Leo: friendfeed is interesting. They don't take engineering shortcuts and I like that about them a lot. Twitter will be around for a long time too, though. In Virginia every radio and TV station was yammering on about Twitter and CNN is giving Twitter lots of free PR even today. - Robert Scoble

There is a huge difference between 100K active and paying subscribers and 600K possibly checked-out twitter followers (the clickthroughs are horrible). I actually have to go to bed, so you can get the last word on me, but you can scroll up to see my take on the TC numbers. I can see why the SUL might seem a bigger deal to a small startup though, but I think the actual worth is not there. Fair enough though, we should limit it to only celebrities and large media organizations who don't care. - Jacob Harris

Robert: one last question though. You saw @ev last night. Did you ask him why you're not on the SUL or raise some of your concerns with him? - Jacob Harris

Jacob: the problem is that Twitter is now a platform and other companies and sites use follower numbers to build lists like this. For instance, on WeFollow if you aren't on the suggested follower list you won't be at the top of most of these lists: http://wefollow.com/ (we follow uses follower numbers to determine order on their lists). I stayed away from talking too much about the SUL.... more... - Robert Scoble

Another perspective. Back when Friendfeed had NO profiles, everyone was 'chatting' on a somewhat level playing field. While nobody knows everyone, I found I met some fascinating people because most didn't bother to go over to LinkedIn or Facebook. It was what you wrote that made the difference ... period ... and there were (are) some still-to-be-discovered fascinating, interesting and/or just funny people out there. - Charlie Anzman

Scoble, the cat has more interesting tweets than you, please get over your jealousy. - Phillip Stewart

Twitter's "Suggested User List" (SUL) = the quintessential High School popularity contest all over again... augh! Only this time, it's not controlled by the jock and the pretty blonde cheerleader, but some dudes at twitter HQ :-/ Personally, I think the SUL was designed for the primary purpose of getting twitter some notoriety to help make their application go mainstream. - Susan Beebe

Robert, thanks. Cat allergies aside, it seems the real problem is the relative advantage given to your competitors. So, a principle that would've been good: that anybody who actually is dependent on follower counts for their livelihood should not have been on the SUL. Otherwise, it might tempt them into "backrubs". So, iJustine, individual reporters, small blogs likeTC, etc. should have fought each other fair and square. But Oprah, Sockington, etc. would've been okay. Of course, it's too late now... - Jacob Harris

HOMEWORK IDEA #1: I'm too busy to do this, but it might be useful to take someone on the SUL (you can pick @aplusk if you want) and programmatically go through the followers. See how many post regularly vs. how many didn't post in the last week vs. how many didn't in the last month. Use that as an approx. of user engagement. Do the same for @scobleizer or @davewiner as a control. - Jacob Harris

HOMEWORK IDEA #2: Ask Techcrunch the absolute monthly twitter numbers for last month and see if we can get closer to a real worth of being on the SUL for them. Yes, they probably won't share it, but it's good to ask. - Jacob Harris

@Jacob Perhaps this might be helpful http://www.twitip.com/life-on... - Brandon Mendelson

Here's a rough study of click-thru -- http://twdsc.us/107... - Dave Winer

Brandon, you really think if I apply my poor little self I'll catch up to your 631,404 followers someday? - Dave Winer

jacob -- state your position on the SUL and then let it rest. - Dave Winer

@Dave, (look at #4) But yeah, I think it's possible. But, I'm always an optimist. - Brandon Mendelson

Mmmm...I think Twitter shouldn't get complacent. There's always someone nipping at your heels. Look what happened to MySpace. - debegray

Took a look at the newest list after reading this, and the only one I clicked on was Rania Al Abdullah - since she is doing such great things for women in the region. I feel sorry for the new people coming on Twitter having to choose from that list. I had to dig around for my first following list, but now have alot of interesting creative people from all over the world. Most of them had... more... - Kay Designer

Brendon, you also say we should be satisfied with our little following. Why don't you prove it and delete your account and start over. Be the big man you want the rest of us to be. - Dave Winer

@Dave, tempting, but it would be disrespectful to those who have decided to follow me (for starters) and more importantly, remember my job is to get the people following me and out to their local shelters this Summer (as mentioned in the article) Since the tech media won't acknowledge anything that I do, it'd be silly to delete my only online channel. - Brandon Mendelson

That said, I would be a liar if I told you I have not been tempted in the past to do this and I won't rule out doing so after this project has ended. - Brandon Mendelson

In the meantime your lectures down to us little folk make you look like a (fill in the blank). - Dave Winer

I don't think that is a far assesment to make. I did that post to be helpful and what I said there is no different than what I said when I had 1,000 folks following me. Also, I don't think I would count yourself or Mr. Scoble as little folk. If Robert, as an example, deleted his Twitter account, he would still be who he is and have many well deserved fans. Me on the other hand? *poof* - Brandon Mendelson

Then I wouldn't be able to help anyone. And to be honest? That's why I'm on Twitter in the first place. - Brandon Mendelson

Dave, my position is that while the SUL is stupid, it's twitter's site and they can do what they want with it. I don't feel like they owe me anything or presence on the SUL is a measure of value. My particular bugbear is the hypothesizing that twitter is using the SUL as a form of control over the tech press, especially since we now know there isn't that much intelligence to it. I also am skeptical of attaching arbitrary values to links, especially when used to support the paranoid control theory. - Jacob Harris

For what it's worth, I think the new Replies behavior and blocking have been far worse to twitter actually, because it makes it much harder for me to see the conversation. But that's a different thread. - Jacob Harris

Dave, thank you for the clickthrough notes. I was curious how active an audience the SUL followers are, given that they are new to twitter. That's why I thought it would be good to see their tweeting activity as a proxy for that. - Jacob Harris

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jQuery Tools: Collection of Most Important UI Components for Todays Websites - http://www.designmarketingadve...

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Fred Davis

It’s amazing how something can be so great and so horrid at the same time. Take Twitter… please! Everyone knows Twitter’s quality of service is among the worst in the industry… so I guess I’m not surprised to find out that their customer support is, um, uh, well they don’t have any. Someone hacked my Twitter account (API security hole is my guess)...

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Can we help Fred Davis get his Twitter account back? It's funny that the co-founder of Wired Magazine is locked out of his Twitter account. - Robert Scoble

Has this been resolved? We can do a story on TheNextWeb.com if you'd like. - Ralf Rottmann from BuddyFeed

Fred - any luck yet? I sure hope so by now! - Susan Beebe from BuddyFeed

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RPX: Instant OpenID and Data Portability - https://rpxnow.com/

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Blogged: A REST-ful Look at #Azure (Part 4) Table Storage (cont.) http://www.reluctantdba.com/DBAsAnd... #CloudComputing

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Five Reasons to Be Terrified of Google Wave #wave #google - http://www.fastcompany.com/blog...

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"Google Wave, announced today at Google's I/O Developer conference in San Francisco, is a hybridized email system that will fundamentally change the way we think about electronic messaging. This is foreboding for at least five reasons. (Below, a wave in action.)" - Shevonne from Bookmarklet

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