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Randy Holloway › Comments
listening to "Cake - Short skirt, long jacket" - http://blip.fm/~dlrr4
This morning's soundtrack.
- Randy Holloway
from Blip.fm
Project Retweet. Why? http://blog.twitter.com/2009...
Seems cool enough. Ability to save some of the 140 not putting the user's name and "RT" in the message.
- Paul Whitaker
I like the declarative attribution that's shown through RT. I worry that with Twitter's implementation, we'll start to lose the sense of what is being shared and why. To me, the semantics of "RT" and "via" say something specific about what we think of a tweet and what others should do with it. I suppose clients like TweetDeck can implement the "RT" as part of the display of a link, but I'm not sure why Twitter feels compelled to change this. Seems like there is so much more they could be doing.
- Randy Holloway
So fricken sick of being used like a retweet robot. I just snapped on someone for it.
Thierry R. Andriamirado, Jacob Burke, Karoli and 37 other people liked this
whaddya mean, "retweet robot"?
- Ted Bradford II
They DM me and ask me to retweet their crap all the time, but never talk to me like a human.
- Chris Brogan
Wouldn't un-following them be a more cool-headed response? that way they can't DM you anymore, right?
- Chris Heath
ah. yeah, a bit rude isn't it? The audacity of the request are amazing sometimes. So look, if you snapped on someone for it... well, they ought to have the social wherewith all to know that's rude. One wouldn't walk up to you at a dinner party with the same request.
- Ted Bradford II
It's a sickness that's spreading throughout Twitter
- Bwana ☠
maybe this is the controversy that Allen Stern is looking for this weekend? http://friendfeed.com/allenst... I can see the headlines now... "Brogan blows up over DM RT request - Play him off keyboard cat!"
- Chris Heath
It's rarely the big guys (well, Gary V, but he's special). It's always the folks who see me as a number and not a dude.
- Chris Brogan
you should open another account called, "retweet robot' for fun, and DM people to ask post their request there instead
- zach
My sympathies, though in a sense it is a good problem to have. Your tweets have significant value, which others recognize (and try to take advantage of).
- DGentry
Those kinds of requests mostly come from PR people, right?
- jjprojects
I don't retweet at all on principle. I love it when others do, though. I can see how this would become a problem. BTW, Chris -- I see you as a dude, not a number.
- Louis Gray
ack, sorry. i know i did this to you once. :( - although at least i did it in person and treated you like a human?
- Sarah is Novembery
Chris, unfollow them. Two people do that: people that are trying to game your reach and true friends who really need the help. Be more than happy to help a friend out and be more than happy to help the other "friend" out- right out the door.
- Damien Basile
...damn, i'd re-tweet, and re-friendfeed this, but I don't want to jacked up for doing it. @ChrisBrogan: perhaps, all the retweeters who are hitting you up feel like, with your help, they're standing on the shoulders of a social media giant. perhaps it's really a sign of respect.
- .LAG liked that
hah - two names immediately came to mind - interesting that one gets special treatment :)
- Allen Stern
you probably follow too many people. I understand you want to let people DM you, but it isn't realistic you're actually following them. Kinda robotic actually. Normal following counts would solve this problem for you, I bet.
- Ivan Kirigin
Chris you are an awesome dude, this must be very frustrating for you. This (2010 Web / Real Time Web) is new territory and people have new principles, values, and morals to learn / adopt. You are a magnet, you create great value, you have uncommon authority people covert that. Some of them who haven't yet considered and adopted sound 2010 Web principles, values, and morals may behave...
more...
- Deano @ Byron New Media
I'm so thankful I've never done that to you! I really wish Twitter would fix the DM problem - maybe give us a choice whether to accept DMs or not.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Interesting point! @iKirigin @Ed_Dale is adamant about having a minimal follow list while other guru's advise actively following people talking in your market. In this instance I can understand Ed's point. It's a tricky choice for those still building the critical mass of their tribe. @wordsforliving (Jannifer) that could be a solution, genuine DM is really handy at times even from...
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- Deano @ Byron New Media
Temper, temper, temper!!! :-)
- Just2Stressed
Don't Blame you at all for being sick of it, or snapping on someone for it. It's all too common for people to do this though. One way that I've seen some people deal with it: every so often solicit things to retweet, and make it clear then to please not ask you to do this - you do it when you're feeling like it. Then hopefully only people who have some kind of news that urgently needs to be spread (i.e. twitter worm, FB worm, etc) call on you other times.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Anyone who directly solicits others to retweet what they write probably doesn't really mean very much of it anyway.
- Randy Holloway
I can relate. :/
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
What Louis said :)
- Micah Wittman
does this happen because it's automated (i.e. Twitter allows someone to build a script for DM'ing people)? Also, if you don't follow that person, they can't DM you, right?
- Vincent van Wylick
Chris, I understand. This kind of behavior is an etiquette breach in real life and online. The standard quid pro quo isn't inherent in the situation. You RT, but what do you get in return? In real life, you would be compensated or some other value-added service would be given to you. Scammers on Twitter want everything for free. They may value your reach but they disrespect you. I've...
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- Christine Cavalier
Thing is, I love retweeting good information that is helpful to my community and I support many causes that can benefit from my network. Where I get pissy is when people ONLY hit me in DM when they need me to retweet.
- Chris Brogan
Ahh the old human trait, selfishness. Reminds me of a few of my 'friends' only talk when they want something.
- Mo Kargas
You could always just say "I'll retweet stuff I like so do NOT ask me for a Retweet."
- Scott Wilder
The worst are those people who are sending mass-DMs and asking for Re-Tweets. That is major fail.
- Curt Mercadante
Chris, right. I get mostly offended when it is a person I don't know at all. This is what is happening now with me: These spammy requestors get wise to my random RT policies, so they start to @ me and "engage" me in chitchat before they ask for another DM. By this point, their motivations are obvious. Without a solid policy, I have no way of avoiding this fake "buttering up." I'm sure...
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- Christine Cavalier
And thanks for bringing this up. The etiquette issue is good fodder for my blog.
- Christine Cavalier
Louis, a Dude is a male horse :-P
- Jesse Stay
I have a few people that do that. Funny thing is I know some of them in real life, but on Twitter, that's the only time I ever hear from them. It makes me think a lot less of them in real life.
- Jesse Stay
What's equally funny is that people get very upset when I call them on it. If I say, "it feels like you only talk to me when you need something," they get all defensive and "well, excuse me, mister popular!" . But that's because people only see with their own lens. If they have 1000 followers, it's manageable. It's not as scalable.
- Chris Brogan
But you are paid to do this, right? Why wouldn't people start treating you like that?
- Thom Kennon
Excellent :-), You should snap at them. The re-tweet is stupid. If it's interesting you'll discuss the ideas with them.
- Richard A.
I can't imagine asking someone to retweet something I'd posted. It's so... rude.
- Steve Ellwood
I guess it's hard for me to believe someone would dm you and ask for such a thing. wow
- Keith - @tsudo
@Thom - paid to do what? Use Twitter? Um, no. That'd be a gig!
- Chris Brogan
@Thom, people are certainly not offering payment for retweets. That's why asking for the favor is so rude. Most people don't ask strangers for big favors like that.
- Christine Cavalier
I know what you mean.
- Wayne Sutton
Wasn't Mike Arrington suggesting that RTs = Currency, and people will start paying for them? If they're going to be so rude as to constantly ask just because people have lots of followers, shouldn't they offer to pony up some $$$ ??
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Which bothers you more: receiving a DM to RT or being asked to RT regardless of DM? Sounds like it's the DM that bothers you.
- Ari Herzog
Talking about pay per blog posts e.g. Izea, and yes, in some cases, I reckon Tweets feed this and become amplifiers of that model.
- Thom Kennon
(I know you're asking Chris, but personally I don't like the being asked to RT so much - I don't mind when a person really needs a favor - it's the matter of someone asking me to RT something simply because of the number of followers - I can only imagine how much Chris must get)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
@Thom - I don't get paid to tweet, but if you want to start, I'm in. I'm on the Advisory board of Izea, but it's not my full time job or something. I'm on about 6 advisory boards and none of them pay unless those guys get bought. Then? I get a pony. : )
- Chris Brogan
@AriHerzog is right. I loathe the DM aspect more than not.
- Chris Brogan
tell em chris, im ignoring about 1-2 dms a day now asking for a retweet. if you have to ask, i probably dont think its worth a RT ;)
- sean percival
? Klaatu Barada Nikto!! ;O)
- Harold Cabezas
having no following and no clout rocks. So say I.
- Aron Michalski
The History of Microsoft - 1992 - http://channel9.msdn.com/shows...
LANMan.
- Randy Holloway
Google Squared is an Exponential Improvement in Search - http://radar.oreilly.com/2009...
Could not disagree more with the Radar's assessment of this new GOOG search feature from the labs. I think the concept and implementation are very limited.
- Randy Holloway
It's Time For Microsoft To Face Reality About Search And The Internet (MSFT) - http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-b...
The same thing could have been said for many tech companies. One might even say it to Cisco re: collaboration software today. That doesn't mean that the companies should always listen.
- Randy Holloway
Google Web Elements and Google's Iceberg Strategy (Google I/O) - O'Reilly Radar - http://radar.oreilly.com/2009...
"Elements like these embedded on other pages around the web are the underwater portion of what you might call Google's iceberg strategy: a great deal of their usage is not on their own site, and so not measured by Comscore and others who measure search market share. In his keynote, Vic Gundotra mentioned that Google is now supporting more than 4 BILLION API calls daily across more than 60 different APIs."
- Anand Sharma
from Bookmarklet
Icebergs sink ships. :)
- Randy Holloway
Whats the private cloud? it's like EC2 in your data center. Debate closed.
Anand Sharma liked this
It's amazing how this simple idea is hard for many to understand
- Anand Sharma
if it were like EC2, it'd all be proprietary, portability would be non-existent, & you'd have Google-lvls of reliability. not for me.
- Dave Graham
Part of the benefit of the cloud is in provisioning, scalability and reduced management costs. If you move that to your data center, will you still see those gains? Not sure it is really that "simple" until people can see it.
- Randy Holloway
RIM says phones will still trump netbooks - http://blogs.reuters.com/mediafi...
And in related news, Brother claims that fax machines will still trump e-mail services. The USPS could not be reached for comment.
- Randy Holloway
Re: Who are your tech heroes? (Scripting News) - http://www.scripting.com/stories...
"Jim Gray."
- Randy Holloway
Report: Iran puts missiles along Strait - UPI.com - http://www.upi.com/Top_New...
Gordon Saunders, Jérôme Flipo, Alejandro and Alex Scoble liked this
"Iran's military has stationed mobile ground-to-air missiles along the Strait of Hormuz to protect the country's nuclear facilities, Arab media reported. The Saudi Arabian newspaper al-Watan quoted an Iranian official confirming the move, while an unnamed source said the missile batteries were deployed in response to reports the United States and Israeli were planning to launch attacks on nuclear sites, The Jerusalem Post reported."
- Bill Romanos
from Bookmarklet
The Iranian missile situation on the Strait of Hormuz is goint to end badly. Definition of lose-lose.
- Randy Holloway
Looked as if the Iranians have upped the ante, what's our next move?
- Russ Jackson
τorƍue, a "like" is not necessarily a moral judgment on the content. It usually indicates *only* interest in the topic.
- Alejandro
Maybe time to go long on oil.
- Bill Romanos
Good thing we aren't completely dependent on oil from the Middle East. Just think if we were and a war broke out in the Straight of Hormuz. We'd be in big trouble ... wait ... doh!
- Dave Hodson
Generation B: The Family That Job-Hunts Together - http://www.nytimes.com/glogin...
Proof that not even the affluent and financially sound are immune from our economic pressures.
- Randy Holloway
Should Enterprise 2.0 Software Vendors Offer Professional Services? | SocialComputingJournal.com - http://socialcomputingjournal.com/viewcol...
Should Enterprise 2.0 Software Vendors Offer Professional Services? asks @billives http://bit.ly/70oRx [from http://twitter.com/dhinchc...]
- Dion Hinchcliffe
This isn't an option if you want to service Fortune 500 clients. You must offer professional services, even as a small Enterprise 2.0 co.
- Randy Holloway
from fftogo
Re: We. Are. What. They. Are. Going. To. Sell. (Scripting News) - http://www.scripting.com/stories...
"Ok, I'll bite. If this is true, then what is Google selling? They're selling ad impressions on our content as well, aren't they? How is this different/better/worse?"
- Randy Holloway
Sun employees, take note - http://mariusm.blogspot.com/2009...
ǝuǝƃnǝ, John E. Bredehoft, ⓞnor and 9 other people liked this
Haven't most good Sun employees run already?
- Tudor Bosman
"What I've seen of Oracle (May They Remain Far From Me) is exactly 11.7 times worse than Siebel. I measured this very carefully." Brilliant.
- Randy Holloway
from fftogo
You got it. I am not sure what Larry plans on doing with Sun, but its obvious that the Big Enterprise Software vendor thing is wasteful and impractical. Larry has remade ORCL before, but now its a monstrously huge mess of products and companies, i would not want to take a chance with them.
- Tweet Feeds
Oracle is a very salesy culture, not engineering. This is really not a good fit at all. What's going to happen to SunLabs? Their Rock Processor? Their Systems Engineering? DTrace? ZFS? Is Larry just going to dump all of the hardware engineering? IBM was a much better fit, a better better steward of Java, understood hardware and systems engineering, had their own JVM engineers for Java, and so on. Man, this is almost as depressing as SGI getting bought by Rackspace.
- Ray Cromwell
Tudor, when do you think most good Sun engineers worked there?
- AC Delco
I am excited. Tomorrow afternoon another piece of the real-time web launches that I have been waiting for since November. It is so good I am running it on its own computer.
Greg GuitarBuster, Daniel Rowley, Ahsan Ali aka. Slick and 36 other people liked this
Tweetie?
- Jesse Stay
A new OS?
- Jesse Stay
C'mon you've got to give us more hints than that
- James
What is it?
- Andrew Smith
????
- patrick
You big tease...
- Rob Kramer
Scoble, a tease on the eve of a new product announcement? Never!!! :)
- Randy Holloway
Andrew I will have live video from the press conference tomorrow. I can't reveal it until then.
- Robert Scoble
http://imapweather.com ? :-) Oh wait, that launched a couple of weeks ago...
- Chip Hanna
Not even for.... a Scoble snack? ;D
- Mo Kargas
where is the press conference robert?
- patrick
Hints: it is more useful to me than a Bloomberg terminal.
- Robert Scoble
This must be that new Google News service you were talking about
- Jesse Stay
Embargoed!
- Charlie Anzman
The press conference/demo should be at 4 pm tomorrow. Pacific time Monday.
- Robert Scoble
I'm guessing Techcrunch break the embargo again :P
- Brandon Titus
Bloomberg terminal metaphor? Ugh. Well, I guess it's not going to be minimalist.
- Nick in Manila
sounds like another real-time web app that will kill my productivity
- patrick
Patrick at a startup in Sunnyvale.
- Robert Scoble
you need to say more than that, come on that's not fair
- Keith Dsouza
"I am the arm."
- Craig Brownell
Does it need it's own computer though?
- CAJ, somewhere else
Jesse: it definitely has taken some of my Google News usage away. I could see this getting bought by Google, though.
- Robert Scoble
You've been on about live Disqus comments lately. Could that be it? Naahhh. Not worthy of a tease like this.
- Jason Mayoff
More useful than a Bloomberg terminal? Have anything to do with StockTwits then?
- Jackson Miller
Good bait by @Chip .... Robert - Are you Green for Earth Day? Kinda scary .... really
- Charlie Anzman
Scoble - you're starting to turn into a tease -- and not in a good way
- Dave Hodson
Alan: no. But you will see why I do that tomorrow. It is browser based and is well engineered.
- Robert Scoble
Is it going to be cooler than cliKball?
- Eric Florenzano
from a new company, or existing start up?
- patrick
Dave: deal with it. I want you to be watching tomorrow. Teasing is part of life. Ever go to a movie?
- Robert Scoble
Your such a tease
- John Anthony Hartman
Patrick: a startup. I doubt you have heard of them before.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, but a fun tease.
- Chris Baskind
Robert, please give me some information.. I'm in Italy and now it's 03:11 a.m! :D
- Frank
Okay, can you narrow down "afternoon"?
- CAJ, somewhere else
Eric: I was wrong about Clikball.
- Robert Scoble
4pm PST means its a West coast company, maybe its Microsoft unveiling some streaming social software embedded in their OS? Oh the Google buying piece doesn't add up
- Sudha Jamthe
Scoble: I'm just giving you a hard time :)
- Eric Florenzano
Sudha: not from a big company.
- Robert Scoble
I'm pretty sure I know what it is - I haven't seen it like Scoble though
- Jesse Stay
Robert - I love how even after all these years, you still get excited. It's one of your more endearing qualities. I've only been around since last July but no longer get excited LOL.
- Mona Nomura
Mona: when an entrepreneur or team gives me something I didn't have before I get excited.
- Robert Scoble
Ha! The Scoble Tease. I'm excited FOR you and no idea what it is. Now bring it on...
- Nakeva Corothers
I have no idea what it is and am jealous!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Wow, your stocks are going up!
- James Michael Mike DuPont
Mona: I also like to see if I was right. Most of the time I am but Clikball is an example of something that looked more useful than it really was.
- Robert Scoble
An interesting thing is that a major component of cliKball is real-time.
- Eric Florenzano
Marshall: call me. You should be there.
- Robert Scoble
cliKball is great, just only if you have tons of free time to surf the web
- patrick
I'm mad at clikball - I can't delete it from Firefox. All my search results have Clikball results even after removing the extension.
- Jesse Stay
Hmm... I actually just uninstalled the clikball FF extension and no longer see the clikball results when searching on google.
- Kevin Whalen
Kevin I think I had an earlier version, probably why the uninstall didn't remove that for me.
- Jesse Stay
I see.
- Kevin Whalen
It is actually a programme for you to get news real time.
- Kiko Cherman
will god speak ? secret weapon ...
- Rocky
is it related to news coming out on blogs/twitter?
- Diego Sana
[snip]
- Richard James
product teases are so fun ;) I hope it's at least as exciting as a bloomberg terminal..lol...And I note, you said ONE computer, and nothing about the number of screens....I sure hope they're beefed up for the Scoble Effect at release time.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I'm interested now, looking forward to the live stream.
- 321
Could it be Fluid Info? Robert interviewed Terry Jones, the president a while ago. The technology seemed very interesting... Let's see: Here is the Part I of the interview: http://www.kyte.tv/ch...
- Juan Pons
Juan: I really hope so! I'm very excited about Fluid Info.
- Eric Florenzano
Not that he would tell us if we guessed correctly...
- Juan Pons
Could it be Microsoft Office On the Web?
- Caleb Scribner
Is it the news thing you told me about that was supposed to launch in March?
- Francine Hardaway
Francine: yes.
- Robert Scoble
Morrissey's having a hard time b/c "the smell of burning animals" is making him sick. Ironic since it looks like he ate Johnny Marr.
He doesn't look that bad- just saw him last week. He's 50 years old in a few weeks...
- Randy Holloway
I really miss the way that FriendFeed used to include icons for each post, indicating the service of origin.
To clarify, I miss the icons and "filter" feature on the FF beta. Its still present on the main site.
- Randy Holloway
RT @MParekh: the long-term challenges of Space Debris. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2... [One more result of brain-dead short-term thinking]
Michael Fidler liked this
Space debris tracking was my affirmative case in high school debate, in support of space exploration programs back in 1992.
- Randy Holloway
from fftogo
Which is easier to understand: Cricket? Or Windows licensing? Discuss.
David Pascoe, Wictor Wilén and Warner Crocker liked this
Client, server, virtual or not, OEM versus volume licensing? Which part?
- Randy Holloway
Exactly my point.
- Ed Bott
Mandarin Chinese scrabble is easier to understand than Microsoft licensing...
- John Denver
JOURNAL: Stagnant Median Incomes and Parasitic Predation - http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalg...
Important read on the health of our economy- wages are an important component. Would be interested to see the rise in executive pay in 1974 compared to median incomes.
- Randy Holloway
IE8 Net History - Internet Explorer 8 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
  |
"Microsoft Window to your Soul, Home Edition. Premium."
- Randy Holloway
Report: 17 million people stopped buying CDs in 2008 - Ars Technica - http://arstechnica.com/media...
I didn't think about it before, but 2008 is probably the first year since 1990 that I did not buy a single CD.
- Randy Holloway
@johnculberson What are your thoughts on the new Federal CTO appointment?
Where is all the discussion on the Vivek Kundra as Federal CIO? I feel like I'm missing all of the analysis on this topic.
- Randy Holloway
Not sayin'. Just sayin'.
David Bausola, Miao, Henrik Johansson and 49 other people liked this
we hate it because it's different
- Stephen Mack
hmmmm
- Charlie Anzman
I think I'm more or less alone in liking the new Google favicon. Yet I hate the new Pepsi logo (but of course, I hate Pepsi, being an Atlantan). There's something about the amorphous asymmetry that annoys me (yes, I know the Google logo is asymmetric as well, but it seems ok somehow).
- Joel Webber
I could learn to like the Google favicon, though the 'vibration' caused by putting bright green and red together, and the altogether Christmasy feel of the right side are hard to ignore.
- Kevin Fox
I also like the new favicon (certainly far more than the lowercase blue-g version, at least). I think the middle image above actually looks more like a piece of the old Pepsi logo than the new one.
- Laurence Gonsalves
ugliest thing g has done so far
- Min Liu
Great link between the images. Red and green, never thought of it but I made some observation, there's two sections of blue, which is a bit weird. And a lot of green compared to the yellow and red, probably to fit with those curves. (the bottom left corner of the upper part of the g)
- ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,
I didn't like the original 'new favicon', but the current new one is so bad I finally started using the 'classic Google favicon' userscript.
- Andrew C
Someone needs to make a parody of http://bunnitude.com/misc... explaining the Google favicon process.
- Laurence Gonsalves
It would start by taking the MSN butterfly logo and swapping the position of the green and yellow bits...
- Andrew C
im more annoyed by the change (for no good reason?) than the design. i was so used to the old favicon that for a long time after they changed to the blue one, it took me a few seconds longer every time i was going back to the google results tab in the browser, because i kept looking for the tab with the old favicon every time.
- Lasse Johnsen
I'm of the opinion that good design is polarizing. It provokes conversation and interest. Take Nintendo's "Wii" for example. Almost everyone hated the name when they announced it, but now I can't imagine it being called anything else (and it certainly hasn't hurt sales).
- Jonathan Terleski
I don't think polarizing implies good design nor vice-versa.
- Andrew C
Pepsoogle?
- Tyson Key
Subliminal or what - http://tinyurl.com/7lekr9
- Jan Simmonds
This couldn't be anymore ridiculous
- Lindsey is Fierce!
Pepsi FTW.
- Randy Holloway
I actually kinda like the new Google favicon. At least more than the blue lowercase one. And maybe rather than 'like' I should say 'am used to,' since that was the extent of my feelings towards the initial Google favicon, too. I didn't particularly like it. I was just used to it, cuz it was the capital G. That's it.
- Chieze Okoye
Also, I don't think that design is good if and only if it's polarizing. I don't even know that I think that there is a causal relationship in either direction. I could get behind the idea that there is a correlation, but I've seen plenty of designs that are universally thought of as great (no polarization needed).
- Chieze Okoye
Yes, the favicon is awesome.
- j1m
At 1111 Mississippi for lunch with @dboynton.
Had a good lunch with Denny, a customer and some partners. Looking forward to doing more work with those guys.
- Randy Holloway
The problem is that you aren't spending enough..... - http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/johnrob...
Not sure that I buy into this "illusion of prosperity" but it is funny and thought provoking.
- Randy Holloway
The avatar of my father - http://www.roughtype.com/archive...
I'm a big fan of Kurzweil but his forecasts regarding nanotechnology can be extremely optimistic.
- Randy Holloway
NY Times: Time to build a new Internet? - http://www.listbox.com/member...
Aside from Mr. Akin's uninformed comments about Microsoft server infrastructure and odd comparison to OpenBSD, I agree with his thoughts on security fears re: the net.
- Randy Holloway
Ran across this in a tweet from Joe Wikert. As a Kindle owner, not sure how I ever missed such a great resource. - http://www.feedbooks.com
Uh oh. Registration seems to be broken. Still seems like a great site, but not sure why the registration is so *hard*.
- Randy Holloway
from twhirl
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