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Steve Gillmor
Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 1:15pm PT. Participate at http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Just out of curiosity ... I noticed this quite awhile ago and just noticed it again - the heading for the show video says: "Live every Thursday". I'm not sure it's ever been a Thursday when I've happened to see the announcement on Twitter in time to come here. Is it now Fridays or whenever everyone is available? ;-) - Xenophrenia
I'm thinking of just making that graphic show a random day :) - But no, it used to be on Thursdays, now almost always Friday. I just keep forgetting about the graphic :) - Rob La Gesse
Must be time to fold a mountain of laundry and watch The Gillmor Gang. ;) - Denise Howell
Hey Denise - great show on TWiL today ;-) - Xenophrenia
Hey I may make it to airport in time to watch - Nick Halstead from iPhone
Why thankee! Glad you liked, was a particularly fun one for me. I'm always honored such intelligent folks will come and give us their thoughts. - Denise Howell
We are getting close. - Robert Scoble
Sitting in Gillmor's kitchen. :-) - Robert Scoble
We will start in 30 seconds or so. - Robert Scoble
Robert: Is that where you recorded the Cinch earlier today? AT&T is not working so good for ya.. - Kevin Costain
Kevin: when I did that Cinch we were on Sand Hill road. - Robert Scoble
Xenophrenia: we do it on Fridays. Gotta fix that. - Robert Scoble
; ) - I can hear him ... - Xenophrenia
I hear something, anyway :) - Kevin Costain
Yeah, we are having some technical problems. Hang on a few. - Robert Scoble
hey Robert - is someone ready with some smelling salts to help Steve recover from his "track" frenzy that I'm sure will be coming ;) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Computers - can't live with'em - can't live without'em ... ;-) - Xenophrenia
We're on - Robert Scoble
why does the video constantly reload / refresh? unwatchable - john
Robert: Fix those knots in your headphones.. haha - Kevin Costain
Kevin: hah. - Robert Scoble
john: hmm. not sure. is it still bad? - Robert Scoble
Getting live show via Ustream on my Android phone - w00t. :) - Micah
Video seems good on my end, not choppy.. audio is good.. - Kevin Costain
Is this available through gtalk? - Jim Posner
Hey, Micah! Welcome :) - Rob La Gesse
the GReader seems to be very fast - i've seen updates happen as fast as every minute with a busy track query (without having to press reload) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ah its just Firefox, IE is cool - john
Hey, Rob. Thanks. - Micah
anything that can consume atom/rss feed or a stream via PuSH can now receive this data - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
wow - record time from check-in to ba lounge - Nick Halstead
Nick, I was just asking them how this competes/compliments DataSift. - Robert Scoble
welcome Nick! - Chris Messina
Hi Chris - Nick Halstead
robert, they are very different services - Nick Halstead
datasift - is about pre-calculated streams - Nick Halstead
Nick: I understand that now.:-) - Robert Scoble
google realtime - is about search that a user just wants to make right now - and look back at data - Nick Halstead
yeah - that's what I was just thinking - I kinda understand but without actually 'seeing' what they are saying it's kind of esoteric to me .... ;-) - Xenophrenia
Nick: this is a new Track feature, not real time search (that's different too). What Chris is talking about sounds like a lot closer to DataSift than that. - Robert Scoble
google can look backwards in time - but with simple queries (but powerful) - Datasift is about immensely complicated filtering at scales of 1000's of rules but no history - Nick Halstead
Nick: got it. - Robert Scoble
ok - have a link so I can read? - Nick Halstead
ive been answering emails all morning - no news reading :) - Nick Halstead
I would of course point out - that our filtering can work across Twitter + Buzz - Nick Halstead
when is datasift going to open up? I applied and haven't heard a word. - Jim Posner
are there any articles etc that explain this? ... maybe clarify? ... - Xenophrenia
@jim - was meant to be end of this month - may slip by a week - Nick Halstead
Jim: DataSift goes to first developers next month. Oh, Nick already answered. - Robert Scoble
Jim: other users won't get DataSift until later this year. - Robert Scoble
thanks for the guidance - Jim Posner
:) track on steroids - Nick Halstead
what is the programming language? - Jim Posner
I am soo looking forward to working with the api for DataSift - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jim: they have yet to name the language in DataSift. The engine is called "Pickle." I suggested "PokeThePickle." Not well received. :-) - Robert Scoble
keyword: pickle, betting its python - john
or python inspired - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
John: it's a new language designed specifically for controlling Pickle. :-) - Robert Scoble
oh got it, yes inspired by python - john
controlling the pickle - the more I ponder that somehow I think I should leave it alone - Xenophrenia
What the Gang looks like to me.. :) - http://twitpic.com/2iqes9 - Kevin Costain
The Seesmic Desktop 2 is amazing.... really useful so far.. - Kevin Costain
is the programming about creating filter rules for DataSift or are the filters created in english - Jim Posner
Steve - are all of those monitors attached to 1 computer or do they each have their own? ... is there somewhere you describe this setup? - Xenophrenia
Xenophrenia: they are all separate computers. You can't hook up multiple people on skype yet. - Robert Scoble
thanks ;-) ... - Xenophrenia
Buzz is not getting alot of press coverage these days..seems the chatter has died down - Jim Posner
Buzz internal to a domain (Google apps?) would be very useful indeed. I thought that was where Wave was going... - Kevin Costain
seems that people are not moving conversations over to buzz from gmail - Jim Posner
for those not seen it - made a 1 minute video showing how a filtered stream of people with 'social media' in their profile works -> http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Nick Halstead
DataSift - tweets come out 200ms after they come out of the hose :) - Nick Halstead
one idea would be to convert a gmail conversation into a private buzz - Jim Posner
Jim: that would be interesting. - Robert Scoble
can't you restrict a buzz to a small subset of your contacts? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
The datasift language almost looks like it's inspired by a DOS batch file :) - Kevin Costain
@bear: yes. - Chris Messina
I like the conversational format of buzz and the privacy of gmail..reading a conversation in gmail is problematic - Jim Posner
Google needs to make email a Game.. people will love it then! - Kevin Costain
Let Google do what they do best, which is data, and let Twitter, Facebook do what they do best which is Social. Pursue Opportunity, don't feed your weaknesses as Peter Drucker always preached - Stephen Pickering
bah. What I wanted to point out was how key PubSubHubbub is here; Twitter's search queries cost them a huge amount of traffic 'cos they are polled so often - Kevin Marks
@kevin - datasift support HTTP Stream - which is actually much easier to consume than PubSubHubbub (which do support as well) - Nick Halstead
yes, PuSH is what the core difference is - realtime cannot happen with a polling environment - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
+web sockets - Nick Halstead
@Nick PuSH is for non-coders as what websocket streams are to coders (in a hand wavey manner) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
HTTP stream is easier for a monolith; PubSubHubbub is easier with many endpoints - Kevin Marks
Companies should feed their strengths and starve their weaknesses. So Google putting energy into Social is a waste of energy - Stephen Pickering
There are so many possibilities for all of this stuff and so many come out that people can't follow all of this - which is why people try stuff and go back to the known - how do we deal with this or is it just something that will have to work itself out as we become more familiar with this medium? - Xenophrenia
we did HTTP Stream - because Clients (e.g. tweetdeck / seesmic) will find that easier to consume - given that Twitter User streams are HTTP stream - Nick Halstead
We will use the products that survive, as always. - Rob La Gesse
but do the best ones survive? - Xenophrenia
not necessarily - Xenophrenia
Nope. Not always (reference FriendFeed) - Rob La Gesse
Seems we have a enough data streams..we need tools for pattern recognition and curation. - Jim Posner
Pulling Buzz away from Gmail would be good. Good clients would be great. The need for Google to pay the bills may be what's preventing it. - Alex de Soto
Robert: The problem with all the cross posting is that when you have something to share, you as the SHARER don't know where the conversation will start .. :( - Kevin Costain
@jim agreed :) - Nick Halstead
the point of activity streams is to have them in a common format so we can detect duplicates and filter by content - Kevin Marks
Robert: When you write a blog, what makes it Facebook-specific? - Kevin Costain
.. or is it just a matter of paraphrasing yourself over and over on each platform? - Kevin Costain
Kevin: yes. That's why if we had great filters on all systems then I wouldn't see duplicates. Duplicates are noise and cross-platform duplicates make it worse. We need a system that says "I've seen this." I hate seeing Techcrunch articles four times just because they are shoving stuff everywhere. - Robert Scoble
we should be able to pull the information we want - but some people push all of it to everything - we are all still figuring out how this works and everyone seems to want it work differently - this is going to get really complicated - I love buzz - but need some way of seeing all of these inputs without hopping from tab to tab or program to program or going through columns and columns - Xenophrenia
almost everyone outside the US lives in MSN Messenger - Stephen Pickering
Robert: Yes, that's part of what Activity Streams starts to build -- ways to reliably identify messages so you can actually track which ones you've seen elsewhere. - John Panzer
Robert: I hate seeing that too, BTW... I see up to ten copies of an article on Greader if it's big.. pain in the ass.. something needs to make this better.. is there possibly a way of duplicate detection? - Kevin Costain
too much stuff ; ( ... - Xenophrenia
audience should be able to get it as they want - which will be overwhelming in and of itself - can we program something that gives us more time to suck all of this stuff in ;-)? - Xenophrenia
If we could have a tool that could FRAME other services from a central location.. that would be great.. - Kevin Costain
Oh yea, laporte hates Buzz.. lol - Kevin Costain
he's back on it now ... ; ) - Xenophrenia
he uses something that imports comments there into his blog where he posts from - I don't remember what it is though .. - Xenophrenia
Gmail Voice calling.. . I tethered through my 3G Android phone and did a voice call.. worked well, not choppy at all.. - Kevin Costain
Google is wasting time messing with Social - Stephen Pickering
jsKit Echo IIRC - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Xeno: I didn't think Leo would stay away that long.. I was surprised more about how much he ignored the service (while apparently using it). - Kevin Costain
Buzz doesn't really suit users like mashable and scoble as their many followers flood your feed - Kevin Marks
Kevin C, I was wondering about that (GV calling), thanks. - Micah
Does the Angstro help Google in any real ways? - Jim Posner
acquisition - Jim Posner
Buzz is much like FriendFeed in that it works very well for small groups of folks - even if you are a part of many of those small groups - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Kevin: the problem is I'm following thousands of "average" users and it doesn't suit them for the most part either. Facebook suits them better overall. - Robert Scoble
bear: chat rooms get worse the more people who use them. Just like real conversations. - Robert Scoble
Robert: Fair enough, though I think many "average" users have a comfort zone.. that may be facebook, it may just be twitter.. that may be all they know.. - Kevin Costain
@robert very true, but unlike twitter I can limit my conversation to a small group and gatekeep who has access - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Leo went back to Facebook too - but he says it's just for knowing what is going on - which would is kind of why I'm in it - only for family connections - otherwise I really don't like Facebook - Xenophrenia
Google should just concentrate their energy on what they do best: data, cloud, engineering wonky stuff. we need it, we like it. Let Twitter, FB do social, let apple do consumer which is what they do best - Stephen Pickering
One of the points is that you can choose individually whether to use Bing or Google or..., but your choice of social networks is largely dictated by what tools your friends choose to use. A bit like being limited to using Compuserve email because your friends are on Compuserve (eons ago). - John Panzer
@bear, @scoble The Lists feature in Friendfeed helps carve up larger numbers so conversation can still work well in priority fashion. - Micah
Google has the ability to connect all of that data cloud which makes them, in some ways, perfect for social - Xenophrenia
John: Well said.. - Kevin Costain
But isn't that what Google is going to enable - the one collection of users I have in real life are those that I have phone numbers or IM id's for. Buzz and GTalk/Voice now allow me to contact those already defined groups with any tool - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
(Ultimately, you should be able to choose what social tools you choose to use, separately from what your friends choose.) - John Panzer
Xeno well let them be the back end for it, but they don't have the finesse to do the front end it seems to me - Stephen Pickering
Chat rooms live or die based on the moderators. FriendFeed's decentralized moderation makes basically a free market of moderators. Good conversation will gravitate toward the well-moderated groups and users. - Bruce Lewis
I've read The Facebook Effect and realize it has made many right decisions - Francine Hardaway
I agree with that part of it Stephen - they don't do social well but it sounds as though they are attempting to learn how do that - we shall see ;-) - Xenophrenia
yes bear, that's the point of Portable Contacts - to have a general format for these. - Kevin Marks
We need a seriously powerful contact management system. I think Google has largely sucked at this. - Kevin Costain
yes - part of why I don't like Facebook .... hehehe - Xenophrenia
Kevin - yes, Portable Contacts and Activity Streams and PubsubHubbub - all ways to let data flow regardless of what silo spawned it - bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Yes, there are too many kinds of Facebook pages - Francine Hardaway
Yeah, Xeno, if they keep hiring people like Chris Messina you've got a good point - Stephen Pickering
Portable contacts - how is that VRM, unless just for sites? @kevinmarks - Francine Hardaway
what I want to see if Google can connect all of these separate projects in a coherent and usable way ... I hope they can - Xenophrenia
Outlook is too many people's high bar of what contact management should be... bah - Kevin Costain
http://contacts.google.com isn't as nice as the Android UI for the same database, Kevin - Kevin Marks
Danny's right. I tried to claim our Places page and have yet to hear back from Facebook. - Alex de Soto
Danny is Hilarious - Stephen Pickering
the weird one-liner like farms showing up on facebook are fascinating - Kevin Marks
This addresses the major point of Leo's piece, we don't control our data on these networks - Stephen Pickering
in reference to Google/Verizon someone wrote an article that equated Google with pre-Darth Vader and that thought makes me ill - ;-) - Denise, what was the name of the guy on TWiL who wrote that article? ... - Xenophrenia
@Kevin, Google is improving, but there are a serious lack of ways to work with Google contacts, working with contacts from within email sucks, and other really cool things that others do with contacts are impossible with Google - Kevin Costain
I need to make a facebook page for a musician and I've got concerns - Tina Chase Gillmor
there are some implications with these large corporations in charge of my social connections has some scary implications ; ) - Xenophrenia
Orkut is the perfect example of how they don't know how to do it. - Stephen Pickering
; ) - from the little I've seen of Orkut I agree - Xenophrenia
Are sites like http://lo.likey.net/ the way facebook users get phished? - Kevin Marks
Xeno, I've been an Orkut member since 2004, because of some Brazilian friends. It's weird because really it was the first before Myspace and Facebook - Stephen Pickering
kevin, how so? are the APIs not sufficient? - Kevin Marks
I like this show - going to make it a point to notice when it's on - after TWiL - just have to remember that ; ) ... - Xenophrenia
Re. Google to Orkut, Apple's G4 Cube didn't fly, but that doesn't mean Apple couldn't come back and make a compelling personal computing device. - Micah
@Kevin - I don't know the contact APIs, so I can't speak to that, but I find from the usability standpoint - technology 10 years older can run rings around what Google's contacts can do. Now, Google has that data in the cloud, so that is very useful - but they are seriously wasting potential here.. - Kevin Costain
Thanks everyone! Great Show today. - Kevin Costain
I'd like to thanks all our guests, Gang members, chat participants and live audience. Nice show! - Tina Chase Gillmor