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Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Time to bust ’sex tape’ star Carrie Prejean out of Conservative Icon Prison | The North Star National - http://www.northstarnational.com/2009...
*makes face* Really Chris? You're going to support her? She is a hypocrite. Not because she's against gay marriage. Her hypocrisy has *nothing* to do with that. She is nobody's icon. She represents herself (badly)...and just like Palin, she should be dumped by any intelligent conservative for the whack-job she is.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
WellPoint Studies Show ObamaCare Increases Costs - WSJ.com - http://online.wsj.com/article...
Brian, MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) and Roberto Bonini liked this
Of course WellPoint studies are going to "show" that...it's in their interest to do so. Never mind that private insurers have already noted that they WILL raise premiums in (timing) conjunction with reform, to make it appear as though the hikes are a result of the reform. It's a scare tactic to keep control in the hands of big insurance...which is costing the nation more in waste and poor health care coverage and practice than any reform will EVER cost us.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
But if they raise rates a lot, people will just switch to the public option.
- Andrew C
Exactly, Andrew. And because of that reality the prices will not increase exponentially.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
That is not going to be the case, the Gov option will be deliberetely under priced for the purpose of getting people on the Gov plan as I am sure that many employers will be happy to unload people onto the Gov plan to save a buck and all the while we will not see an equivalant increase in our pay so in effect we will see our compensation reduced. To suggest that the Gov will magically...
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- Brian
from FreshFeed
To put the $170,000 into perspective that would pay for my health care premiums for 34 years! I find it amazing that people want us to believe that Gov will be cheaper when they have saddled every US citizen with the equivalent of 34 years of private health care premiums even after taking 15% of our lifetime earnings!
- Brian
from FreshFeed
$170K thats one ride in ambulance to ER, admission Cardio Intensve Care and that triple bypass
- WarLord
Doesn't matter, Obama care passes defeated filibustered whatever - "for profit" healthcare is unsustainable I give it 5 years and Medicare will be extended to all ages
- WarLord
Another thing that bugs me is how the left say that private insurance is so bad and wasteful yet nobody from their side has seen that as an opportunity to enter the market themselves and provide a better service which would trounce all over the current flock of wasteful, evil insurance COs. They have billionaires like Soros, Google founders, Jobs willing to poor 100s of millions funding Dem campaigns yet they can't and will not fund a venture with so much obvious potential?
- Brian
from FreshFeed
Brian my union is self funded in our health care insurance for our members but then the right aint much for unions doing good so its pointless to call you on the dumbness of your statement. Oddly enough the day we went self funded the insurance company we'd been using rebid the contract at a 50% reduction in their fee. Amazing coincidence
- WarLord
Funny how the crickets are chirping...
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Who says that we are not for union workers doing good. We refer mostly to the rediculous situations like the auto COs having to pay people to do nothing without time limits to find work or even being required to take a job, deliberate efforts to prevent productivity like making sure workers did not do anything but their specific and limited function even when they had extra time during...
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- Brian
from FreshFeed
You mention that the day you went self funded your costs went down, that is exactly our point, we should promote more competition and options by allowing competition across state lines, allowing more consumer choice in what type of insurance they buy rather than highly regulated markets where Gov mandates your coverages which would be like writing a law requiring all auto manufacturers...
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- Brian
from FreshFeed
Brian you asked why nobody entered the market if insurance rip off people, I answered that many unions do directly compete avoiding paying profits and hue CEO comp package. State Regulation is a different article that gets in the guts of coverage MN as do many states spcify a list of illnesses that must be covered I wouldn't trade MN list for the crappy Texas list not so BTW consumer...
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- WarLord
@War Lord: you say that private insurance is not sustainable but you have yet to explain to us just how you come to the conclusion that Medicare and SSI type Gov run systems are. At least when a private Co charges too much I have the option not to buy it while when the Gov does the same I will be prosecuted and imprisoned if I refuse to buy what they are selling. Take SSI, if you make...
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- Brian
from FreshFeed
It's just amazing that people think the government can run healthcare efficiently. The majority of people in America have health insurance, but as usual, everyone has to be screwed so the government can take over.
- Spencer
Faith has nothing to do with it. I just have enough common sense to know the government would handle it worse. If you think denials and such won't happen under the government, you are sorely mistaken.
- Spencer
Of course denials will happen, Spencer. However, the common sense you're quoting here is inapplicable -- read this to understand a few of the problems with private insurance (and no, you're not the person I was addressing in the blog): http://therearethornstoo.blogspot.com/2009...
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Obama's Afghan Plan: About 40K More Troops - CBS News - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Fwd: Leave Cao Alone, He had To Defect On Health Care - http://www.thehotjoints.com/2009...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Commentary » Blog Archive » Could “Secondary Trauma” Have Driven Him to Shooting? - http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Hot Air » Blog Archive » Report: Hasan attended same radical mosque as 9/11 hijackers; Update: “He was a typical fundamentalist Muslim” - http://hotair.com/archive...
So heres the key question: If Osama and his AQ are able to brainwash an Americna citizen into becoming a terrorist and then use him to plan and launch an attack on American Soil in TEXAS inside a huge US Army post than what exactly is the purpose of the American incursion into Afghanistan.Not to prevent organizing planning of terrorist activities... Clearly we are out flanked by open source insurgency #4GW
- WarLord
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Republican Politics
The Hole at the Heart of Our Strategy by Mark Steyn on National Review Online - http://article.nationalreview.com/...
Russellreno and Scott Green liked this
Mark Steyn would be more convincing if he acknowledged that violent terrorists have emerged from all three major branches of the Abrahamic tradition -- Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Steyn is not a big thinker -- he's a two-bit propagandist and inciter. I would love to debate him here on these issues. But most neocons tend to run for the hills when confronted with intellectual...
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- Sean McBride
I correlated the information found at http://www.facebook.com/l... with the chart found at http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.... You can view the updated graphic at...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Pajamas Media » Fort Hood Massacre: A Day of Courage and Cowardice - http://pajamasmedia.com/blog...
David C. Cooper liked this
So, what would you have done if it was a Christian shouting "God Is Great" before killing 12 and wounding 30, what would you have done if it was a Jew shouting "Elohim Gadol", what would you have done if it was an atheist shouting "Hey Look, Chocolate Chip Cookies"? Religion has nothing to do with this shooting, unless Hasan admits that he indeed is a Jihadist. Until then, I feel for you, you xenophobic, zealous fear & hate mongering jumping to conclusions fringer.
- Rene Wirtz
How could you possibly come to the conclusion that religion had nothing to do with this? You libs are so damn blind about this stuff. You can't bring yourself to admit that radical Muslims live among us. Religion had EVERYTHING to do with this.
- Chris Jones
Yes, so what, muslims live among us. Are they all Jihadist now? Do you really believe that? Should we just deport or jail everyone who is muslim? I find religious zealots equally threatening, whether they are Christians, Jews, Muslims or whatever organized crime, whoops, religion, they belong to.
- Rene Wirtz
Chris, same question I addressed to Spencer in your other moronic thread...: would you react so stupidly if his name was western and he killed people based on Christian ideology? Or are you one of those morons who sees abortion clinic bombings as "God's will"? Terrorism comes in many forms, and is not limited to those with "Muslim-sounding names".
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
How has anybody acted "stupidly"? There's no problem to piss on anything related to a cross or Christianity, but we cannot say ONE WORD about islam. The fact is this guy was islamic, he praised suicide bombings, and he killed soliders while screaming islamic phrases. Yeah, lets put our head in the sand and ignore it. Sorry, but the left is so naive.
- Spencer
I agree 100% with Rene.
- Ian May
Spencer, you're an idiot. Really. So what if he was Muslim? Deflecting my specific question and turning it BACK to what you want to focus on answered the question for you. Good job.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Attacking Muslims as a whole for the behavior of Nidal Hasan would be exactly like attacking Christians as a whole for the behavior of George W. Bush (he launched the most disastrous war in American history under the belief he was fighting Armageddon) or attacking Jews as a whole for the behavior of Bernard Madoff (Madoff was a leading member of the Jewish establishment). Bush and...
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- Sean McBride
Thanks Denise, your insult is common among the left lately. Regardless, I can't answer your question because I have seen nothing "stupidly". The question should be asked to you. If it was a Christian would you not be associating it with the "wingnuts". Why do we have to ignore the fact that he is islamic and that it may have had motive with the shootings?
- Spencer
I haven't seen an update today, but I read that the feds did have an eye on him because of his talk about suicide bombings and the like. I would bet they couldn't approach him because they would be labeled as "racists" or something.
- Spencer
And yet, the feds waited all this time to do anything about it (and now it is too late), makes you wonder if they were just throwing oil on the fire, doesn't it?!
- Rene Wirtz
Spencer, you're spouting a typical circular argument. There is no insult here - just pointing a plain and simple fact of idiocy. When "Christians" commit those sorts of atrocities - I most certainly DO call it wingnuttery...and worse: TERRORISM. Try educating yourself...otherwise, as I noted elsewhere, you're wasting time.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
By bringing religion to the argument you have de facto lost the argument!
- Rene Wirtz
Thanks for proving my point. Once again, naive liberals.
- Spencer
And thanks for proving mine, since I'm not a liberal - but you most certainly are an idiot.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Thank you. When a liberals, oh sorry, progressive maybe, results to insults that only shows they can't win the argument through logical discussion. Now go, Al Gore needs you to go buy some carbon credits.
- Spencer
Oh please, enough already with the weak attempt at political labelling, Spencer. Go find a hobby that you can actually figure out. Maybe underwater basketweaving.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Funny that you mention "logical" and "discussion" in the same sentence, because you can't seem to do either.
- Rene Wirtz
Haha....crazy moonbats. :)
- Spencer
Aaaaaand another useful response.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Come on Spencer, try a little harder. We all know how you really feel. Don't hold back, please. I, for one, thinks you're a waste of space and a sorry excuse for a human being and a perfect good example of why abortion is a good thing. See, it's really not that difficult ... you gotta have the balls, though.
- Rene Wirtz
Genuine testicular fortitude is not a trait common to wingnutters, Rene. This is not a big surprise to anyone...*giggle*
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Well, to be honest, most liberal women I have ran into have a set of balls unfortunately. ;)
- Spencer
Intimidating much?
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Yet another conversation that proves I'm glad to have blocked Rene and Denise :)
- Craig Eddy
Ah Craig only blocked us AFTER this conversation, otherwise I wouldn't have seen the comment. Good job, Craig Eddy - lol!
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Regardless, as long as fringer racist haters like Spencer, Craig, David and Noah are posting to US Politics they're gonna run into us, because I will keep calling BS whenever I see it, and fact of the matter is that pretty much anything that eminates from these "people" is utter and odious bovine scatology *grin*
- Rene Wirtz
Months from now when Fort Hood turns out to be "Blue Suicide" the Bachmann followers going to come back here and recant this... I'm guessing not
- WarLord
@WarLord: of course they are not going to recant this, because they never really meant it this way, we just misunderstood them.
- Rene Wirtz
Rene, well said - all of your comments in this conversation.
- jcunwired
*bows* I try, I try ...
- Rene Wirtz
If this Fort Hood attack was a religious based Islamic Terrorist attack on US soil in a military base doesn't it mean that 8 years of war in Iraq and AStan FAILED. Gitmo FAILED all the other wiretaps and torure rendition predators FAILED to make us safer. 8 years of Cheney Failed since Osama could reach out into the heartland of america and kill.
- WarLord
Spencer, never underestimate the liberal's ability to completely ignore logic and reason. Besides, Rene and Denise are the husband and wife troll team. They constantly attack anyone with conservative opinions. Their typical M.O. is to try to bait you into a discussion, then they hurl insults at you while you waste time and energy trying to reason with them. They are a prime example of whom we are fighting in our own country to keep America free.
- David C. Cooper
The other trolls in this thread aren't worthy of mention. >.>
- David C. Cooper
David, genuine intelligent conservatism is ALWAYS welcome; you, however, represent neither intelligence nor conservatism - and you're in NO way genuine. Go crawl back under your rock.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
LOL, thanks for proving my point Denise. ^^
- David C. Cooper
Nothing could be further from authentic American conservatism than messianic ethno-religious nationalism and fundamentalism.
- Sean McBride
David you just had to be a dick. You know, I was one of the few people in this particular group who actually took the time to defend you. And people here know it. I actually tried to prove Rene wrong by being polite and civil to you -- but my husband was right about you after all. You're in a group where you choose to act like a complete jackass 99.9% of the time, and then have the audacity to call anyone else a troll. Very rich. Asshole.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
David Cooper is allied with Christian Zionist political forces that are hell-bent on turning America into a fundamentalist theocracy -- he is hardly fighting for our freedoms -- quite the contrary. Judeo-Christian fascism and traditional American freedoms are not remotely compatible.
- Sean McBride
@David: ah, nevermind. Sucks seeing the same tactics you use, doesn't it. Anyway, not wasting any more words on your ignorane, hate, racism, exceptionalism, bigotism, fascism and zealous behavior. And at least Denise and I are actually two people, as opposed you and that coward alter ego of yours, piltord! Or is David the coward? Hmmmm, the conundrum!
- Rene Wirtz
Doesn't really matter which, come to that. Whichever identity he goes by, he is a coward. His duplicity and disingenuous tactics had to be shown by another user...which was brilliantly entertaining to watch...but there was no way he would have openly admitted it without the evidence as clearly presented as it was.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
@David Yes, these are typical liberals. I would almost feel sorry for them, but they choose to be ignorant.
- Spencer
Spencer: you just wrote in Conservative Oasis: "The moonbats are out in the full force today. As always, doing what they can to defend islamic terrorists." I haven't seen anyone "defend Islamic terrorists" -- please provide some examples. I *have* seen many people, from all across the political spectrum (not just "liberals"), argue that smearing all Muslims on the basis of the behavior...
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- Sean McBride
Likely, Sean, he won't answer with anything relevant. He's so caught up spinning around in his echo chamber (accusing others of head-in-the-sand, moonbat, kool-aid drinking behavior) that he fails to see where his ignorant hypocrisy has blinded him to what people "like us" keep trying to point out - and that it has nothing to do with "defending Islamic terrorists" - which is ridiculous to even suggest, of course. *smirk*
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
To be honest, I have never seen Spencer engage in rational conversation on Friendfeed, and I have encouraged him to do so several times. Typically he disappears when he finds himself unable to defend his beliefs in a logical manner.
- Sean McBride
Your "rational" is different than others obviously. If I remember correctly, Sean thinks Jimmy Carter is someone to listen to. I haven't smeared the entire islamic religion, I simply made a factual point that some people are afraid to admit. They are either afraid of "offending" someone, or are just afraid to admit the truth. It is factual to say that islam has a problem with radicals and with so-called "moderates".
- Spencer
And yet you still evade the actual question Sean asked you...why is that? He asked you, point-blank, "I haven't seen anyone "defend Islamic terrorists" -- please provide some examples. I *have* seen many people, from all across the political spectrum (not just "liberals"), argue that smearing all Muslims on the basis of the behavior of a few Muslims is bigoted, unfair and un-American....
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
To MSNBC the Least Important Thing about Killer Army Doctor is He was a Muslim Who Lauded Suicide Bombers: Meltdown with Keith Olbermann Part 14 « NewsReal Blog - http://newsrealblog.com/2009...
Spencer and David C. Cooper liked this
I wonder what took you so long. All together now: "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran!" Post flagged as #hate!
- Rene Wirtz
@Chris: I guess you are one of those idiots who thinks terrorism is limited to "them"...
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Terrorism isn't limited to "them", nor one religion. However, only a fool would not see the relation between violence and islam.
- Spencer
I also see a very clear relation between christians and violence and jews and violence, only a fool would not see those.
- Rene Wirtz
So if you can associate those two religions to violence, why stop when it comes to islam?
- Spencer
Way to miss the point, there, Sparky. He's pretty much referring to ANY religion that uses god as an excuse for unjustified murder. If you're too dense to pick up on that, then you have no business in any intelligent discussion on the matter.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
I'm not stopping it when it comes to islam. I want CID to close their investigation and confirm or deny that there is a relation between Hasan and a terrorist organization, before I already be his judge and juror.
- Rene Wirtz
@Denise, you are so far out there you can't even grasp reality. Mmmm'kay?
- Spencer
Ooooh good comeback. Here's a shiny star for you. *feigns impressed face* Why don't you try actually arguing with intelligence before you resort to discussing reality.
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Chris, thanks for sharing that article. It was a very funny assessment of the abysmal hypocrisy and hatred spouted by the media's own radical left-wing poster boy Keith "No Ratings" Olbermann. I can't believe Olbermeister considered a story about the Obama/Pelosi/ReidCare bill protest at Capital Hill yesterday to be more important than the shooting at Ft. Hood. What a jerk.
- David C. Cooper
I would guess in the grand scheme of real life as opposed to rightist fantasy,the Fort Hood shooting is a blip not a huge incident certainly less important to all of us than Health Care or unemployemt or really my next meal. Rightist fantasy not withstanding a sadly sick person commiting suicide using the cops guns to do it is not earth shattering
- WarLord
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Audio: Mark Levin Goes After Media Matters - http://www.thehotjoints.com/2009...
Mark Levin is coming to this battle intellectually unarmed.
- Sean McBride
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design – secret report | World news | The Guardian - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
CBS & NBC Fail to ID Hasan as Muslim; ABC's Raddatz Relays: 'I Wish His Name was Smith' | NewsBusters.org - http://newsbusters.org/blogs...
Spencer liked this
Flagged as #hate!
- Rene Wirtz
Hate? What? It's called facts, something the media doesn't report.
- Spencer
It is a fact that Hasan in muslim, but to immediately, without due process, label him as a jihadist, domestic terrorist is pure and unadulterated hate.
- Rene Wirtz
Spencer, would you react so stupidly if his name was western and he killed people based on Christian ideology? Or are you one of those morons who sees abortion clinic bombings as "God's will"? Terrorism comes in many forms, and is not limited to those with "Muslim-sounding names".
- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Big Hollywood » Blog Archive » PBS Ombudsman: ‘Sesame Street’ Fox News Slam Crossed Line - http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolt...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
'All Campaign Hacks' - Forbes.com - http://www.forbes.com/2009...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Two Muslim Terrorists In India Killed By Hungry Bear - http://www.thehotjoints.com/2009...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Union Thugs not pulling weight, NJ Dems upgrade to Actual Criminal Gangs - RedState - http://www.redstate.com/blog...
I'm sure this has been thoroughly fact checked *rolls eyes*
- Rene Wirtz
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Video: Rush Limbaugh On Fox News Sunday - http://www.thehotjoints.com/2009...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
California vs. Texas - http://minx.cc/?post=294268
David C. Cooper to David's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Republican Politics, Conservative Oasis, Fresh Conservatives
Breitbart.tv » More: Pelosi’s Public Unveiling of Public Option Closed to Public - http://www.breitbart.tv/more-pe...
Bob Martin and Drew liked this
This is more of the "transparency" we were promised?
- David C. Cooper
from Bookmarklet
David C. Cooper to David's feed, US Politics, Republican Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Fresh Conservatives
Obama says he will not rush Afghanistan decision - http://www.breitbart.com/article...
CW™, Sean McBride and Jeff P. Henderson liked this
Great, maybe Obama could ask the Taliban for a time out while he makes his decision.
- David C. Cooper
from Bookmarklet
Remember that Dick Cheney himself did not want to send more troops to Afghanistan. And he took 8 months to come to that decision. Dithering is of the utmost importance in this case. Or, would you want to see even more Americans die unnecessary?
- Rene Wirtz
There's no reason that the United States military should be in Afghanistan whatsover.
- Maxamad
Why rush there's plenty of time to be enmeshed in the fetid sucking swamp that is AFPAK. History does repeat but it rhymes said Twain and if we judge by British and Russian results we really hve no business ans absolutely zero chance of success howesver success or goals might be spun. Astan a hollow corrupt narco state I see no strategic or economic value to our continued occupation unless you own the arms plant ;)
- WarLord
Obama is exhibiting brilliance and backbone in refusing to be stampeded into what is obviously a losing game in Afghanistan -- he is keeping his cool.
- Sean McBride
The clock keeps ticking http://www.breitbart.com/article...
- David C. Cooper
@Jill: I don't love Obama. I think he is the far superior choice over McCain. And no, Obama's indecision is not causing more death, if you believe that, you are beyond hope. Sending more troops will only aggravate the resistance, causing more deaths. Unless you mean by sending more troops, you mean send a couple of B2 airplanes and nuke the hell out of Afghanistan. Then, there will be no more US deaths. A couple of million Afghans, but who cares about them, you don't, obviously.
- Rene Wirtz
Rene - Jill never mentioned sending more troops and I haven't seen anything that suggests that she wants that. Could you please point me to where you saw her say this?
- Katy S
Also, Rene, that was a really callous thing to say to someone whose husband is about to be deployed. Where you got that she doesn't care about the lives people of Afghanistan, I don't know. You're really out of line.
- Katy S
Katy S -- What did Jill mean when she said Obama's "inaction is causing more death, not preventing it"? Obviously the best way to prevent more American deaths is to withdraw American troops from a situation in which their presence is only provoking more violence.
- Sean McBride
Sean - she said "we have a president who has had NINE FUCKING MONTHS to make a decision on this, can't seem to get off his ass." From that, I would say that she sees inaction as not making a decision one way or the other. She's said as much before in other conversations. I've never gotten the impression that she's happy about our presence in Afghanistan.
- Katy S
What's probably going on: Obama has figured out that the Afghanistan War is on the same bad track as the Vietnam War and will probably fail no matter what, with enormous costs in blood and treasure, but he is coming under enormous pressure from the usual suspects to escalate the war. The pro- and anti-escalation forces in his administration and in the nation as a whole are stalemated...
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- Sean McBride
@Katy: maybe Jill should have explained herself a little bit better instead of capslocking, coming off like those fringe rightwingers who are frothing at the mouth, eager to bomb Afghanistan back to the dark ages.
- Rene Wirtz
@Jill: my apologies for my rudeness. But you could have explained yourself better. I think Obama wants to do the right thing more than he just wants to rush in. Or rush out. Your husband can thank the previous administration for the fact he might get shipped out. This is not Obama's war and you know as well as any other sane person, that the US cannot just pull all troops out and you also know that sending 40,000 more troops will be just as bad.
- Rene Wirtz
I don't understand the argument that we can't withdraw our troops from Afghanistan. The Russians withdrew their troops from Afghanistan. We withdrew our troops from Vietnam. The French withdrew their troops from Algiers. The British withdrew their troops from America. The Israelis withdrew their troops from Lebanon. Sometimes the smart thing to do is to withdraw one's troops.
- Sean McBride
I can't believe the lies in this thread. "This is not Obama's war…" Are you friggin kidding me? Obama has been saying that the "real" war is in Afghanistan for over a YEAR now. Those of you who think withdrawing our troops is the answer obviously didn't learn your lesson. How well did appeasement of terrorists work out for Clinton or Carter? Have you forgotten 9/11 already? 9/11 was a...
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- David C. Cooper
Sean, you just made my point for me. Yes the Russians withdrew in defeat from Afghanistan and how many died in THAT operation? Yes, America withdrew in defeat from Vietnam and how many died then? Withdrawal in defeat only emboldens the enemy and results in a HUGE number of casualties.
- David C. Cooper
David -- your logic is weirdly skewed. Nations like the United States and Russia are unable to impose their will on foreign nations in many cases, and are unable to prevent the deaths which are caused by conflicts within those nations. Sometimes one has to stand back and let those conflicts play out until a natural equilibrium is reached. Spending trillions of dollars and thousands or...
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- Sean McBride
Sean, I agree, nation building in Afghanistan is a waste of resources. In fact, Cheney and Bush already knew this which is why they decided against a large campaign there. The fact that Obama was so arrogant to think he could just declare that Afghanistan is where the "real" fight should be is proving to be a disaster for him and the ones who are really paying the price are our troops...
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- David C. Cooper
David -- the more we attack Muslim militants in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the more Muslim militants we create. For every militant killed, ten more are radicalized into militancy. The process is not difficult to figure out: imagine if Americans were being attacked by a foreign occupier determined to "reform" and "improve" us. We would become radicalized as hell and stop at nothing to retaliate and drive them out.
- Sean McBride
Sean, I have no idea where that ridiculous idea started, but it's complete nonsense. We garner more support in those regions by helping the good people there defeat the radical extremists. If we pull out now we'll be abandoning the good people who were just beginning to trust us. THAT would be more likely to "create" militant radicals who hate America than sending more troops to defeat the radicals.
- David C. Cooper
David -- your claims are ungrounded in reality. What scholars and foreign policy experts are you using to come to these conclusions? How would Israelis react if Americans and Europeans invaded Israel with the objective of "helping" Israel by using military force and violence to turn it into a modern Western democracy?
- Sean McBride
Jill -- wait and see IS a decision, and it may be the best course of action at the moment. Escalating the conflict in a rush may be the worst decision.
- Sean McBride
Sean, I base my arguments on interviews with the Afghanistan people themselves. Upon what do you base yours?
- David C. Cooper
Jill, I just wanted to say that, from the bottom of my heart, I am grateful for the service and sacrifices that your family is making to protect the rights of free people all over the world including my own family. I can only pray that, wether he decides to support the troops or cut and run, Mr. Obama takes a moment from his golf game to think of the dangerous situation that men like your husband are in and make his decision quickly and decisively.
- David C. Cooper
David: Which interviews? Do you have the links? Let me read what you are reading. I am basing my views on the best thinking of the best experts on the region -- people who know the history, and who have looked at all the opinion polls in Afghanistan and much more. My main source of analytic materials on Afghanistan: https://friendfeed.com/search...
- Sean McBride
Jill -- "things are escalating in the region": because we have been stirring the pot, particularly by causing the deaths of civilians. The best way to escalate the situation even more would be to send in more troops that will further alienate the Afghani people. And do not be cowed by people who claim to be privy to special inside information: anyone who has studied history knows that...
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- Sean McBride
From Matthew Hoh, a senior foreign service officer whose resignation letter said in part: "I feel that our strategies in Afghanistan are not pursing goals that are worthy of sacrificing our young men and women or spending the billions we’re doing there. I believe that the people we are fighting there are fighting us because we are occupying them — not for any ideological reasons, not...
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- Sean McBride
Jeff Huber: "Military pundit Ralph Peters is on the right side of the Afghanistan issue. "Even if everything went perfectly in Afghanistan — which it won’t — the results would be virtually meaningless: Our mortal enemies (above all, al-Qaeda) have dug in elsewhere, from Pakistan to Somalia," he wrote recently in the New York Post. "Our soldiers are dying for a fad, not for a strategy....
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- Sean McBride
Sean, the civilian interviews I mentioned were part of a documentary about Special Forces operations in Afghanistan, so I don't have a link. But here are a few stories that might help: http://toyoufromfailinghands.b... http://afghanistan.usaid.gov/en... Here is an interesting quote, "the anger is especially strong...
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- David C. Cooper
Sean, "we" are not the major cause of civilian deaths in the region. The anger comes from the fact that after Afghani civilians are killed by the terrorists, thanks to Obama, there aren't enough American troops to provide the help the civilians need to respond properly to those terrorist attacks.
- David C. Cooper
Another useful method for quickly weeding out the most important Afghanistan news and analysis: Topsy: http://topsy.com/s... Elite opinion is definitely turning against this war, and turning fast. Obama has to be very worried that he is going to be left holding a big bag of bad if he forges further into the mire.
- Sean McBride
Sean, the Jeff Huber quote is illustrative of Obama's naivete regarding the ME conflict and a prime example of why he should have never been allowed to even run for office. We already knew that Afghanistan was the wrong place for this fight before he made his first campaign speech yet he insisted that Afghanistan was the place we needed to fight. You apparently voted for that and now we're stuck with this.
- David C. Cooper
David: your analysis of the Afghan situation is missing the complexity and nuance in play. Garrison Keillor on Matthew Hoh: "He says that our presence among the Pashtun people, the rural, religious people, is only aggravating a civil war between them and the urban, secular (and, it seems, fraudulent) government of Kabul, and the role of the Taliban and al-Qaeda is not central – the real...
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- Sean McBride
Obama argued, correctly, that Afghanistan was much more important than Iraq as the setting for an appropriate response to 9/11 and dealing with al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda has been crushed in Afghanistan. Mission accomplished. Time to bring the troops home and avoid getting trapped in a civil war.
- Sean McBride
David: you didn't answer: how would Israelis respond to a military invasion and occupation of their country by the United States and Europe, designed to force them into adopting full Western democratic norms (full equality and opportunity for all ethnic and religious groups on a level playing field)? How would you respond?
- Sean McBride
Sean, that's because you ignored the fact that I already stated that nation building should not be the goal in Afghanistan. Besides, how does Israel deny opportunity for any ethnic or religious group?
- David C. Cooper
Fine, so pull the troops out and don't complain when the terrorists take over that country and use it as a base from which to attack western people and countries.
- David C. Cooper
David -- when Israel defines itself as the state of all its citizens, and not the state of a particular ethnic and religious group, it will be a modern Western democracy, and not until then. And you know as well as I that Israelis would respond with massive violence to an invasion and occupation of their territory by any outside force.
- Sean McBride
David -- I am very confident that the United States and Europe can handle any military or terrorist threats originating from Afghanistan at any time in the future. We don't need to be an occupying force to manage those situations if they materialize. Playing the role of an oppressive occupier only increases the likelihood of those threats developing.
- Sean McBride
I still don't think it's Obama's war. The previous administration started it, with good intentions I might add (I even somewhat supported it). But then they noticed that they couldn't find Osama, so they concentrated on an easier target, Saddam. But, since we were in Afghanistan (on the other side of Iran from Iraq!) Bush and his cronies decided to stick it out. Probably for monetary...
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- Rene Wirtz
@Jill: that the Bush administration did more for the military was for very selfish reasons: he needed military personnel to be happy, so they'd stay and they'd wage a war for him. I'm glad everyone got a pay rise, but at what cost? And I'm really sorry, but if the military was your only option, you gotta look elsewhere for blame, like where education has failed. If military was a very distinct career choice, then there is no room to complain at all, because you'd know what you sign up for.
- Rene Wirtz
*hmm* Jill, as a former military spouse, I can understand your frustration with what you perceive to be indecision on Obama's part. I mean, 9 whole months and he hasn't resolved all of the mistakes made during Bush's reign of error. Yes, troops have died recently. My ex-husband was in Afghanistan prior to Bush pulling troops from there to invade Bagdad. At the time, I was incensed....
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
@Jill: that's your prerogative. I find you, even after closer examination of your comments, to be closed-minded. You are tunnel visioned and projecting all your frustrations on "those who don't understand". Bye bye!
- Rene Wirtz
Jill, for the record, Rene knows more about the inside of the military than the average joe citizen - and your response to him is beyond predictable and pathetic. He knows what their salary is. However, you're wrong when you assume that people don't serve out of lack of options. Perhaps that isn't the case with your husband - as the case is with many who enlist or gain commission out of...
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- ProsePetals (aka Denise)
David C. Cooper to David's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Republican Politics, Fresh Conservatives, Conservative Oasis
Pelosi: New health care bill is 'historic moment' - http://www.breitbart.com/article...
Spencer, Christopher Chung and Drew liked this
Obamacare with a Pelosi make over. Yuk! I'm calling my representatives and telling them to defeat this bill.
- David C. Cooper
from Bookmarklet
"Historic moment" != "for the good", especially in this case
- Craig Eddy
It's historic because it's the first time since taking office that Pelosi has ever had a President she could plagiarize.
- David C. Cooper
I think she qualifies as the worst politician ever.
- Spencer
David C. Cooper to David's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Fresh Conservatives, Conservative Oasis, Republican Politics
Obama's media intimidation works! FOX News Covers Up for Muslim Mafia - http://www.wnd.com/index...
I'll bet there's enough market share for a new cable news network to compete with FOX. Obviously, the Obama media refuses to do the job.
- David C. Cooper
from Bookmarklet
So, who is left to stand up and expose the radical Muslim terrorists trying to infiltrate America?
- David C. Cooper
David C. Cooper to David's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Fresh Conservatives, Republican Politics, Conservative Oasis
Tax refugees staging escape from New York - http://www.nypost.com/p...
They all started leaving when Hillary Clinton became their Senator?
- David C. Cooper
from Bookmarklet
When are you leaving for Israel?
- Rene Wirtz
It won't matter Rene, I'll still be online where ever I go. ><
- David C. Cooper
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Hot Air » Blog Archive » Confirmed: US used AIG to bail out banks - http://hotair.com/archive...
Andrew C liked this
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter
Hot Air » Blog Archive » Schwarzenegger sends very special message to legislator who heckled him - http://hotair.com/archive...
I wouldn't really care if he said "fuck you" to Ammiano in person, but vetoing a bill that could have helped the Port of SF turns the personal into something that hurt a lot of completely innocent people. ... So, pretty much what I would expect from a jackass like Schwarzenegger.
- Andrew C
... actually, a comment at the SFBG post says that the bill will go through at the end of the year automatically; it's just that Schwarzenegger won't have signed it. If that's true, I'll withdraw the accusation of playing petty games with people's livelihoods.
- Andrew C
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Republican Politics
Tax refugees staging escape from New York - http://www.nypost.com/p...
David C. Cooper to David's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Republican Politics, Conservative Oasis
RealClearPolitics - Video - Frank: "We Are Trying On Every Front To Increase The Role Of Government" - http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video...
Craig Eddy liked this
It is amazing how Mr. Frank can lie about his role in defeating the Republican effort to regulate Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae (which could have prevented the housing market crash) and in the same breath admit his agenda to expand the role of government.
- David C. Cooper
from Bookmarklet
Not amazing, that is what they do. Frank is one of the prime figures in the failure of the mortgage industry. Too bad we don't have a media to expose it.
- Spencer
Finish his quote: "...because we know the American people are too stupid to fend for themselves"
- Craig Eddy
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
ANALYSIS - Disappointed Sarkozy shifts gaze from Washington | World | Reuters - http://in.reuters.com/article...
Chris Jones to Chris's feed, US Politics, #TCOT Top Conservatives on Twitter, Conservative Oasis, Conservatives, Republican Politics
Michelle Malkin » The bogus death statistic that won’t die - http://michellemalkin.com/2009...
If Michelle Malkin claims one way, it usually is incorrect ... the death toll is probably higher anyway ...
- Rene Wirtz
Wow, there are some amazingly blind people commenting on that post. I like how they take about how dems forget so quickly past comments, yet ignore the repubs doing the same, and seem to think the poor insurance companies are being maligned, because it's the patient's fault when their insurance is summarily denied because a code was entered incorrectly, or their baby is 'too big'. Wow...
- Bette Cooper
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