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Republican Politics

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William Fine
Officials Return From Western Gas Fields ‘Invigorated’
Jay Are
Hey Gang, I would apprecaite it if you could check out the new Talk Show America blog and let me know what you think !
NoahDavidSimon "the media dragged out the "Freedom of Religion" argument, claiming that mosque opponents are undermining the Constitution. But the First Amendment provides unlimited protection to freedom of religious belief, not freedom of religious practice. If it were otherwise, houses of worship would not be subject to zoning laws. "the media dragged out the "Freedom of Religion" argument, claiming that mosque opponents are undermining the Constitution. But the First Amendment provides unlimited protection to freedom of religious belief, not freedom of religious practice. If it were otherwise, houses of worship would not be subject to zoning laws. ...since Ground Zero Mosque defenders have already argued that it is not a religious building, but some sort of 13 story community center (in a neighborhood without an actual Muslim community), they have already contradicted their own argument. They cannot argue that the building is both religious and non-religious at the same time - The same "courageous" activists of the press, who are busy scribbling and babbling their condemnations of American bigotry-- quietly censored themselves when it came to standing up for freedom of speech against the cartoon beheaders. Because while they might lie to the public about being afraid of the Tea Party Movement or the Ground Zero Mosque protesters, they can't lie to themselves. When the door is closed, and the shades are drawn, and it's just them and their Mac Book Pro, it's not the Tea Party they're afraid of. It's Ahmed and his axe. In March, the same New York Times which has been... more... - NoahDavidSimon
"(in a neighborhood without an actual Muslim community)" - "The center's location, in a former Burlington Coat Factory store, is already used by the cleric for worship, drawing a spillover from the imam's former main place for prayers, the al-Farah mosque. That mosque, at 245 West Broadway,... more... - Andrew C (✔)
"They cannot argue that the building is both religious and non-religious at the same time" - OK, here's a question, then - is the Ganesh Temple Canteen (as seen on "No Reservations") a religious or non-religious space? As I understand it, you go in, order some food, eat it, and pay for it. The temple above it is unquestionably a religious space, but... - Andrew C (✔)
the Muslims do not live there. they work there. not a community of Muslims. you could say a large community of Jews.... or Europeans, but it is not Muslim. The Muslims return to Atlantic Ave. - NoahDavidSimon
Then why are there [at least] two mosques already there in lower Manhattan? - Andrew C (✔)
did I say the other Mosques were a good idea? of course we know we were not aware before. - NoahDavidSimon
you can believe that you have a right to molest young children... that is why we allow the Mosques, but if you actually do practice molesting young children then you go to jail. - NoahDavidSimon
that is how freedom of religion works. everyone has a right to believe their shitty belief... but if your belief starts effecting other people... then it is no longer freedom of religion. that is the point' - NoahDavidSimon
our country allowed freedom for Islam, but when it became clear that Islam is proactively hostile to our constitution and actively asks it's members to destroy it... then it no longer is categorically a religion. practice and belief are separate issues - NoahDavidSimon
as for your argument about categorizing something as both... certainly so... but that is not what Rauf said. He clearly stated one or the other. - NoahDavidSimon
"you can believe that you have a right to molest young children... that is why we allow the Mosques, but if you actually do practice molesting young children then you go to jail." ... OK, I've clearly wandered into the deep end of crazy and here I am without a life jacket. So long. - Andrew C (✔)
I think Islam is crazy too. I didn't make that bit up. how am I crazy for saying exactly what we tolerate here? ...and why is it you think that a personal attack is somehow helping your argument? - NoahDavidSimon
My personal attack was meant to amuse me, because I no longer think it is worth arguing with you. - Andrew C (✔)
of course you don't think it is worth arguing. you lost all the points you made. but people are going to see this thread. there are many things written in all large scale religions that are questionable... not just Islam. That is why we have to tolerate all the crazy and yes violent and yes hateful things Mohammad says. The practice of a religion is controlled by an institution. In... more... - NoahDavidSimon
in fact I'm friends with Salahuddin Shoaib Choudhury on facebook... a follower of #Ahmadiyya. I recognize him as institutionally different in practice. that is what is meant by belief and practice. - NoahDavidSimon
But is Sultan Knish correct that "the First Amendment provides unlimited protection to freedom of religious belief, not freedom of religious practice."? According to the first amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to... more... - Daled Amos
let's dissect the 1st amendment then: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (that means the government shall not be cahoots with a religion in setting up a structure). ...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; (as long as you don't hurt other people is implied) ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; the right of the people peaceably to assemble (the word "peaceably"here that it is very thorough here for interpretation) - NoahDavidSimon
so you are free to think anything... but you are not completely free in your expression of your faith because the expression is the proactive part that hurts people. you can believe that the Gods are angry and need virgin sacrifice. you can not actually go and get a virgin and assemble her on a volcano. - NoahDavidSimon
going over the logic... the word 'peaceably' is clear as day. peaceably refers to the actions of the believer. - NoahDavidSimon
No argument here. I am not arguing with anything you are saying--all I am saying is that the conclusion "the First Amendment provides unlimited protection to freedom of religious belief, not freedom of religious practice" needs further explanation. The word 'unlimited' applied to belief but not to expression sounds counter-intuitive. In the end, that distinction needs to be spelled out--as you have done. - Daled Amos
I have a belief that you have the best intentions. there are directions you can go that counter the point... no doubt. I recognize a non Cartesian such as myself could point out philosophically that there is no schism between the mind and body and therefor thought and action are one and the same, but the argument would be insincere and belabors a point that the intent is very clear... even if we can philosophically question the nature of thought. - NoahDavidSimon
In the 19th century, the supreme court ruled that it's legal to believe you should practice polygamy, but not legal to actually practice it - another example that was mentioned by the Sultan - NoahDavidSimon
Question for Noah. You said - "you can believe that you have a right to molest young children... that is why we allow the Mosques". I'm trying to factor a couple of things together, but reading through this, I'm not entirely following your line of thought. Do we suggest that (with respect to child molestation) that we get rid of all the Catholic churches as well (or was that part of... more... - Prosey BUTTONS!
Al Azahar University is the active practice of the Mosque. They implement Shariah. It is not merely in a dusty book that no one understands. I'm curious if you have any statistics as to how many world war 2 Nazis actually hated Jews... until then according to your metaphor we can not judge them. as regards to Catholicism what text are you referring to that implements pedophilia. the words of Mohammad use himself as a model who married a girl at five years old and then had intercourse at nine. - NoahDavidSimon
"as regards to Catholicism what text are you referring to that implements pedophilia?" Catholic born and raised as I am I can answer that for you: none! The institution of the Catholic church has been complicit in an almighty, excuse the pun, cover up but the crimes of these priests are without doctrinal basis. In Islam on the other hand.....well how long do any of us have to do justice... more... - JSLeFanu
My question with respect to both Islam and Christianity - with respect to pedophilia...(in current *legal* terms, not applying any "moral" code) is how are they (historically) any different with respect to girl children? In terms of biblical interpretation, or in terms of interpretation in the quran.... And I'm not being facetious, I sincerely don't know, and would like your insight. (I... more... - Prosey BUTTONS!
@Noah, I wasn't creating a metaphor of judgment, though. I was asking a specific question about the big 3 monotheistic religions as comparative to *each other* - not of the Nazis to the Jews during WWII. I could possibly wager a guess that many of those Nazis were "Christian", but that isn't an accounting for Christianity on a worldwide scale, since most Christians around the world... more... - Prosey BUTTONS!
The Nazis had no time for Christianity. However Christianity has a lot to answer for, and I speak as one (well sort of), in terms of creating a climate for the type of slaughter which took place. In terms of Catholicism most of these matters were addressed in Vatican 2 and, as a result, my religious education was actually highly favourable towards the Jews. That's a faith addressing... more... - JSLeFanu
JS, stop putting words in my mouth. I appreciate your perspective. Being sarcastic is fine. Being snarky and assuming my thoughts to your words is patently ridiculous. You and I have different perspectives, and I'm interested in knowing well as Noah's -- figuring that someone (or both of you) who are evidently more knowledgeable on these topics than I am could...oh, I don't... more... - Prosey BUTTONS!
As I said elsewhere, it is clear you have no interest in actually answering what I asked, so I sought out answers externally, and came to my own conclusions. I'm now done with this thread as well. - Prosey BUTTONS!
@prosepetals sez give all the lotus eaters in that walled garden all my very best. - JSLeFanu
"The prominent Egyptian sheikh, Yusuf al-Qardawi, sits at the center of the academics' spectrum. According to mosque supporter Marc Lynch, associate professor of political science and international affairs at George Washington University, Qardawi is a practitioner of wastataniyya or "centrism" and "a barometer of Muslim opinion." Esposito likewise calls Qardawi a "reformist". Rauf says... more... - NoahDavidSimon
Arab loss of faith in US security guarantees will cause them to deny basing rights to US forces in their territories. It will also likely lead them to bow to Iranian will on oil price setting through supply cutbacks -
Arab loss of faith in US security guarantees will cause them to deny basing rights to US forces in their territories. It will also likely lead them to bow to Iranian will on oil price setting through supply cutbacks
given the fact that the US will not take action against Iran's nuclear installations, there is no reason for Israel to capitulate to US pressure on lesser issues. The Obama administration has nothing to offer Israel on this most important threat and so Israel should not do anything to strengthen its position. Among other things, this conclusion has clear implications for Jewish construction in Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem, Israel's future responses to Lebanese aggression, as well as for Israel's continued cooperation with the UN probes of the Turkish-Hamas terror ship. - NoahDavidSimon
I've never been on the opinion that Israel should stop these developments anyway. As to whether or not the US will take action against Iran I still tend towards the belief that, when push comes to shove, they will. We'll have to wait and see. Where Obama lost me to begin with was last June. He treated the demonstrators in Iran as an inconvenience rather than an opportunity. This was an... more... - JSLeFanu from FFHound!
I'm still perplexed. Why is there an image of a Lavi scale-model kit at the top of the article? That project was cancelled over 20 years ago: - Michael R. Bernstein
it is an Israeli model airplane. it is a metaphor. Bombing Iran's nuclear capability does not necessarily mean an attack on civilians in the cities. and you are correct that Iran is a very likely place for change because of it's cosmopolitan character. The same was the argument that the state dept used with Iraq. If Iran can control the price of oil... isn't that exactly what Obama... more... - NoahDavidSimon
Chris Jones
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@Rene - We do not seek the respect of socialists or from those on the extreme left! BTW, Germany was a member or even one of the creators of the socialist ideology and system of Government! - Brian
Funny Brian how quickly you show your utter ignorance in two sentences. - Prosey BUTTONS!
Isn't that the same Pat Buchanan who claimed that the US' causcasian population was solely responsible for the nation's success (or something to that effect)? Never mind every one else who died for the country, invented stuff and contributed, right? He's got zero credibility, Chris. Don't repost his nonsense. - LANjackal
Yes, Pat, whose country indeed. I wonder why he didn't answer in great detail exactly whose country he thinks it is... - Andrew C (✔)
What I'm curious about here (since I don't give 2 shits about Buchanan's blithering) is who Brian's referring to *specifically* when he says "We". - Prosey BUTTONS!
Attack the messenger, but obviously can't refute the message. - Spencer
Which message would that be, Spencer? That "white" people are responsible for our (national) success, while disregarding all people of color who have positively contributed? That is the very message being refuted/questioned. I asked who Brian meant by "we"...and I disagreed with Buchanan's assertion by challenging what Brian said. Typical you to blither without saying anything of substance. - Prosey BUTTONS!
He speaks of "invasion" as if migrant workers are some kind of WMD. He's a certifiable xenophobe (at best). I have yet to see any content on that site that's anything close to objective. Whose country is this? Well, until certain factions acknowledge that we are all immigrants, I'd say anyone who didn't have ancestors here before 1492 is a tourist and might want to start learning Navajo or Cherokee as a courtesy to our hosts. - Tinfoil 2.0
Silly kids. Mr Buchanan's stupidities aside, if it wasn't for the evil socialists, you wouldn't have your precious 40 hour work week. You'd be working 6 10 to 12 hour days. There'd be no such concept as vacation, only the wealthiest people's children would be educated, no public libraries, no public services, etc etc. Yeah, the socialists really screwed over the US. - iTad
Amen Tad Man :) - Prosey BUTTONS!
And, for the record, wnd is NOT a conservative site. It is a far-right fringe lunatic bin. - iTad
Er, what /are/ the non-far-right-fringe lunatic bins that some might consider appropriately conservative? The New Republic? - Andrew C (✔)
Chris Jones
As usual, she misses the point entirely. Which is why when I see her name on anything, I dismiss it as garbage ...y'know, just considering the source and all... - Prosey BUTTONS!
And what is your version of the "point"? - Spencer
The context of tensions at the school that quite reasonably suggest the flag-wearing kids were intentionally trying to start shit? - Andrew C (✔)
I'm sure she would provide it, can you say the same about the leader? - Spencer
Difference, Spencer? Obama was born in the US (yes, Hawaii IS an American state), and his mother was American. Malkin has about the same claim to "citizenship" as she asserts of Obama. Less, actually, since neither of her parents are American. *shrug* Oh're one of those ignorant birthers, too...? Go figure. - Prosey BUTTONS!
"Malkin took a position in opposition to the Citizenship Clause of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution, asserting that "the custom of granting automatic citizenship at birth to children of tourists and temporary workers such as Yaser Esam Hamdi, tourists, and to countless 'anchor babies' delivered by illegal aliens on American soil, undermines the integrity of citizenship -- not... more... - Prosey BUTTONS!
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...and completely disregards the 4th Amendment rights of citizens and legal aliens. Oh yes, Chris, let's jump for joy over a law that spits on the Constitution, right in conjunction with the legalization of carrying concealed weapons without a permit. *rolls eyes* Even the author of this article is "expressing reservations" -- probably because the law does more than "get rid of illegals"...duh. - Prosey BUTTONS!
I assume you haven't read the bill at all, because you obviously don't know what it does. The law allows officers to ask for proof of citizenship after making lawful contact with someone. They just can't pluck you off the street and ask for "your papers" like the useless rag Huffington post is yapping about. - Spencer
I read the full 17-page "comprehensive and well-thought out" piece of utter garbage that is the AZ SB1070, Spencer...the day it was signed. Did you? Do you know what loopholes are? Treat it like a college assignment, and see if you can find them. Then come back to me with more of your incorrect assumptions, because you're living up to the old saying of what they make you... - Prosey BUTTONS!
I did read it, and my assumption are not incorrect, they are fact according to the bill. However truth never matters when dealing with progressives. I notice you can't refute what I posted, but more babbling about loopholes. - Spencer
Trying to put me on the defensive also fails to answer the question, Spencer. Here's a question for ya. I have asked this to family and friends, as I'll pose it to you. I'm going home to Arizona (I'm originally from there, so I know how things really are there without guessing at it like many). I have no intention of discussing politics, since I'm going for a long overdue... more... - Prosey BUTTONS!
(and just in case you missed the sarcasm of my first statement to you, let me make it a little clearer. The HCR bill-now-law is 2,407 pages (double-spaced, but that's still over 1,200 pages single-spaced. This piece of swill being touted as any kind of well-thought out anything is a meager 17 pages (8.5 single-spaced pages) of worthless drivel...) - Prosey BUTTONS!
You shouldn't be worried. If you are legal and aren't stopped for another crime they can't just walk up to you and ask for "your papers", as is the common lie being told in the media. - Spencer
You're right that I *shouldn't* be...but that's still begging another question. *chuckle* Okay, so let's move that thought to the next step (disregarding the media, because I tend to ignore them)...let's say I get stopped for a routine traffic stop. Routine. Tail-light or whatever. Something that I can address and attend easily. My maiden name is right there on my license. Justice is *supposed* to be blind, but most cops aren't. They can see to read. So I get pulled over...what's the next logical step? - Prosey BUTTONS!
You should be more worried about being killed or kidnapped in Arizona by illegal immigrants, which is now very common seeing that over 80% of murder warrants are for illegal immigrants. - Spencer
Actually, that's not something I'm worried about in the least. I grew up very close to the border and my dad is American of Mexican descent. And those numbers are way off...I actually pulled up the numbers the other day - I'll go hunt down the links for you. I am, however, worried about my dad and many friends and family members getting harassed by the policia...and that has happened frequently. - Prosey BUTTONS!
"Most cops aren't" blind? Wow, that is an ignorant statement pretty insulting to people who put their lives on the line daily. Anyways, you get pulled over, and? What's the first thing you are asked for when you are pulled over in any state? ID? - Spencer
You seem to keep missing the point, you can't be stopped for no reason and questioned about your citizenship. Contact has to be made lawfully. - Spencer
I wasn't referring to skin color, genius...I was referring to my license. Check yourself, and re-read what I said. I have cops in my family, brah...I'm not denigrating law enforcement. Never have, never will. And I'm not missing anything. You're ignoring loopholes that fail to check the problem at its source. Illegal immigration is a problem of basic and demand. Go... more... - Prosey BUTTONS!
This is the comment I made to a friend of mine - he & I grew up in way southern Arizona..."I've been researching this morning, and the numbers I'm finding support the author's assertions... I pulled my numbers from crime statistics (who pulls their numbers from FBI reports), from Neighborhood Scout, and from the Arizona Criminal Justice Commission. Overall, Arizona is 6.91 on the ...... more... - Prosey BUTTONS!
Further, I commented to another friend in the same thread one of the many links I checked to verify my information: -- there are several excel spreadsheets in there with demographic statistics over time, trended. So you keep blithering about HuffPo and citing NYT...I'll do my own research outside of Op-Eds...have fun. - Prosey BUTTONS!
The problem is you are complaining about loopholes and assumptions based on nothing really. What law doesn't have a loophole? It seems you are pushing into the realm of conspiracy theories. The fact is, whether its Arizona or some other border state, crimes and the influx of problems that illegals bring with them is at a boiling point, that is why poll after poll shows plenty of support for this law. - Spencer
But since we are diving into assumptions and theories, what is the real opposition to this bill? I say they are worried about losing voters. ;) - Spencer
LOL you made an assumption that I hadn't read the law. Wrong. You made an assumption that I was believing "media lies" while citing an OpEd from NYT. Wrong. Now you're saying that I'm complaining about assumptions when I just handed you a shitload of actual numbers from state and federal organizations that gather statistical information...and I'm suppose to take you seriously? Pfft. G'bye Spencer. - Prosey BUTTONS!
Of course. Progressives can't deal with reality. - Spencer
Oh, the timing of this? Yeah, you & I are in agreement there. There is a hefty bit of political posturing going on. Anyway...I've GIVEN you reality. Facts and plain, bald statistics equals facts. You can't answer to it, so I can't take you seriously. Again...adios. - Prosey BUTTONS!
I don't need to answer to it because I have seen the numbers of crimes, kidnappings involving illegals. If you don't think its a serious problem, then go back to liberal land - Spencer
Wingnuts....coming from a far-left moron. Shouldn't you be standing in the welfare line or something? - Spencer
But really, just wait a few months and see many other states adopt laws like this, and then after the political landslide in 2010......we can finally get the country moving again. - Spencer
Do you know how to discuss areas of disagreement without waging any kind of personal attack against someone you don't know? Calling me a moron...suggesting that I should be in a welfare disgusting and is nothing to do with intelligent debate. - Prosey BUTTONS!
Yep, he sure did...straight up ad-hominem attack. I'm actually not surprised, though, having watched how he operates with others. I gave him plain facts...and he chose to ignore them and play name-calling games. He's getting blocked, so no biggie. I enjoy having discussions and debates with intelligent conservatives, who know how to disagree without being complete asshats -- not the... more... - Prosey BUTTONS!
Well, I'll just put this out there openly, Rene. If he's able to see your comments, then he has a secondary troll account. *nod* Like the other one did/does. Why am I not surprised? Neocons have a nasty habit of doing that. *shrug* I'm not bothered...since he's on my out-list. - Prosey BUTTONS!
Chris Jones
so much for sea levels rising I guess --- LOL - Chris Jones from Bookmarklet
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HIPAA is the law governing medical data it is stringent and draconian in its penalty like $250K per penalty to start. I'm guessing since this article makes zero reference to the overriding medical data privacy law that effects every record or every interaction of every patient every doctor every drugstore every hospital and every insurance company I'm going to call bullshit - WarLord
Chris, who linked this article? (That is, where did you come across it?) - Ayşe E.
Easily the second lamest AFD prank I've seen today. - Andrew C (✔)
I know, Andrew. And I wonder if Chris doesn't want to say where he got it. Link, Chris? - Ayşe E.
So where did he go? He's still online, just hasn't FF'ed since, well, this post. - Andrew C (✔)
So was an AFD gag post or was it a really lying conservative scare story? - WarLord
I did a brief search earlier and has run AFD jokes for several years in a row. The question for us really is whether Chris knew that or not. - Andrew C (✔)
bump - I noticed Chris is back sharing on FF ( see also ) so I figured we'd ask one more time. - Andrew C (✔)
I doubt he realized that it's utter Or who knows? Maybe he did know... - Prosey BUTTONS!
Chris Jones
It seems a tiny bit odd to me that you quoted extensively from Politico /but not this part/: "The SEIU has emerged as a central political player and has grown rapidly under Stern's tenure, and some close to him had expected him to resign during the first term of the president he helped elect, and after the achievement he'd spent years focusing on, widening access to health care." - Andrew C (✔)
Chris Jones
» Sunlight on SEIU Part I: Marxist Andy Stern’s Compensation Would Have Karl Marx Spinning in His Grave - Big Government -
Brian Brawdy
Qatari Diplomat's Quick Cigarette Fix Costs US Big Bucks #TCOT #DIGG #NEWS
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Michelle Malkin » National security flip-flop: Obama to retreat on KSM/Gitmo detainee civilian trials…for now -
I never understood this asinine argument that "the terrorists shouldn't have trials in America _because it would be unsafe_". Do cons think terrorists are supervillains? - Andrew C (✔)
Chris Jones "Of course, other than the timing of the press release announcing Scott Matheson's appointment and his brother's meeting at the White House, there is absolutely no evidence that the administration set up a quid pro quo. [...] In fact, no less than two Utah Republicans have vouched for Scott Matheson's judicial qualifications. "I approve... more... - Andrew C (✔)
Chris Jones
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