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Heather Piwowar
cofounder of ImpactStory, postdoc at NESCent, live in Vancouver, study data sharing and reuse, adore cookies + cycling + reading + my fam.
San Fran Declaration on Research Assessment, DORA: No IF for eval, diverse products, open metric calcs, etc. It's super, check it out. http://am.ascb.org/dora/
Kubke, Cameron Neylon, Meg V. Meg and Hedgehog liked this
"We encourage individuals and orgs concerned about the appropriate assessment of scientific research to sign"
- Heather Piwowar
"Putting science into the assessment of research." <---- yay.
- Heather Piwowar
new @researchremix post: My champions of Open Science http://wp.me/p4g7f-nn
Kubke, Graham Steel, Egon Willighagen and 3 other people liked this
and thanx!
- Egon Willighagen
Just went back to find my 1st blog post. Y'know who welcomed me from day 1? @sennoma @LibSkrat + @petermurrayrust :) http://researchremix.wordpress.com/2007...
Egon Willighagen, Björn Brembs, Marianne and 9 other people liked this
...and Paul Miller!
- Cameron Neylon
what you have done with that blog in six years is nothing short of astounding.
- RepoRat
Bookmarking this for lonely days. Astounding, she said. Astounding! Onward.
- Heather Piwowar
from iPhone
Oi. You kick azz. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise.
- RepoRat
Yup, i do :) but i get lonely. Anyway.... Just so cool you guys were there from day one. I'm forever grateful to Bill Hooker for finding my blog, flagging it to oanews, and issuing strong welcome :)
- Heather Piwowar
from iPhone
Six years already? Excellent :)
- Hedgehog
My champions of Open Science - http://researchremix.wordpress.com/2013...
new blog post on the weekend: OA Options For A Society Journal http://researchremix.wordpress.com/2013...
OA options for a society journal - http://researchremix.wordpress.com/2013...
Cameron Neylon, Yo Joe. No, go slow. and Kubke liked this
The 29 Most Canadian Things To Ever Canada In Canada: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessica...
Has anyone tried to obtain textmining access from Elsevier recently? Positive or negative experiences to share?
Christina Pikas and Cameron Neylon liked this
I think you are the only one with the stamina to even try.
- Bill Hooker
Liking to bump but I suspect Bill's right...
- Cameron Neylon
I would expect that Peter MR tried...
- Egon Willighagen
we're trying to get the reaxys api access they promise in all their literature... seems like they shouldn't hype it if we have to tell them why we're using it and wait now > 2weeks to get started with it :(
- Christina Pikas
i think they might be trying to get out of supporting academic users with their api... but it doesn't say that on their website.
- Christina Pikas
resources to argue for strong funder data archiving policies - http://researchremix.wordpress.com/2013...
RepoRat liked this
Exclusive license to publish != Open
Kubke, Bill Hooker and Yo Joe. No, go slow. liked this
I am thinking we should change the Open Access Spectrum so that rather than "author retains copyright" that column says "author retain rights to distribute under any chosen license". Copyright in and of itself is useless...
- Cameron Neylon
...and exclusive commercial rights. So basically authors "own copyright" but actually have a set of rights that are pretty much limited to some personal uses.
- Cameron Neylon
Yup.
- Heather Piwowar
from iPhone
+1 on the analysis.
- Egon Willighagen
guessing 39yo moms may be an underrepresented group at @github meetups. oh well! off to represent on behalf of nerdy women everywhere. Because I really want a laptop sticker :)
Mary Carmen, Bruce Lewis, Yo Joe. No, go slow. and 13 other people liked this
Cancer, lay off. One of my dad's closest cousins just died. A good friend of my moms, she lived our house for a while. She was 65, recently retired, and had just finished years of taking care of her own mom. Too soon, too soon.
Today: composted funeral flowers at my mum's, co-wrote a 36-hr turnaround grant response letter, and bought a remote-control car. Positive: I have a full and lucky life. Negative: today was really hard.
I hear you.
- RepoRat
RepoRat: I'm really glad you are in my life. You help.
- Heather Piwowar
from iPhone
Back atcha. :)
- RepoRat
The hard days are...hard. Not sure I have anything more useful to offer than that but glad that you are also thinking of some positives.
- Cameron Neylon
My dad died yesterday. He had terminal cancer, but his death was sudden: he had a major stroke on Saturday. I'm my father's daughter in so many ways, and I will miss him terribly.
I'm so very sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you and your family
- maʀtha
I'm sorry for your loss.
- Marie
Can you take some time off work?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
oh Heather, much love to you. do let us know if we can do anything - even if that is just bad knock-knock jokes to take your mind off things.
- jambina
our condolences
- Pete #TeamMonique
thinking of you, here, too. take care.
- Marianne
*hugs* I'm so sorry for your loss.
- LB: #TeamMonique
from Android
I'm very sorry. *hugs*
- Betsy #TeamMonique
Condolences. And hugs
- Christina Pikas
from iPhone
I'm so sorry, Heather.
- Katy S
I'm so sorry to hear this. I'll be thinking of you and your family.
- Catherine Pellegrino
Love and light to you, Heather.
- Derrick
*hugs* and thoughts with you heather
- Sir Shuping is just sir
I'm really sorry to hear that. Thinking of you and your family.
- Stephen le Francoeur
I'm sorry for your loss Heather. Let your memories of happier times together help you and your family through the sadness, and sustain you as the passage of time helps mend your heart.
- Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ
so sorry Heather
- weelibrarian
Condolences! We'll be thinking of you.
- Rebecca Hedreen
I'm very sorry, Heather.
- RepoRat
So sorry for your loss. Got the email auto-reply and was afraid that was what had happened. Best wishes for all your family.
- Cameron Neylon
So very sorry to hear this. Many hugs to you.
- Hedgehog
my deepest sympathies. that's a difficult loss.
- t-ra: not givin up
I'm so very sorry, Heather.
- Micah
from FFHound(roid)!
I'm sorry for your family's and the worlds loss. Take care of yourself and those around you as best as you can and let others help take care of you.
- SteVe C
So very sorry. Do take time for yourself.
- Mary B: #TeamMonique
from iPhone
very sorry to hear :( let us know if we can help with anything
- Jason - The Opaque
from Android
I'm so sorry, Heather. I echo Jenica's thoughts from another fatherless daughter. I miss mine every day, and it's been almost 20 years. *hugs*
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
My condolences, Heather. My thoughts are with you and your family.
- Bill Hooker
I'm so sorry, Heather. He must have been so proud of you! Thinking of you and yours.
- Meg V. Meg
My condolences. It's an awful passage watching your parents die.
- Heather
I'm so sorry.
- Running Slow
So sorry. Take your time with it.
- Björn Brembs
I am so sorry. My thoughts are with you and yours.
- Amandadon't
from Android
Very sorry for your loss! I am like you in that I am so much my father's daughter. I don't know how or what I'll do when mine passes which I know is inevitable. Take care.
- Paulette
thanks so much for all of these kind thoughts. they mean more than you know. hugs to those who have been or are in a similar spot, and thank you for sharing that with me, it helps. We had a lovely service on Saturday... he would have cried the whole time :) Here's his obituary: http://bit.ly/YKEBb7 Thanks again, everybody, for caring.
- Heather Piwowar
that's a lovely obituary, Heather. Thank you for sharing it.
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
I'll be in Seattle on Wednesday for #scioSEA to talk #altmetrics. Can't wait: community ftw. Come join us! http://scienceonlineseattle.org/events...
A PeerJ preprint posted this week cites our PeerJ preprint posted last week. *This* is how research should work.
Chris M, Cameron Neylon, Christina Pikas and 2 other people liked this
Yup. What danah boyd said on Mendeley+Elsevier: http://www.zephoria.org/thought...
RepoRat, Yo Joe. No, go slow. and Meg V. Meg liked this
Re Mendeley/Elsevier one area I don't see being discussed in twitter stream etc, is that this buys Elsevier proprietary Intelligence. What Mendeley reveals in their Open API is only a tiny amount of their total data. It isn't click stream or highlighting or fine grained demographics etc. This means that Mendeley gives Elsevier a competitive...
Kubke, Kaan Öztürk, Garret McMahon and 12 other people liked this
advantage on what scholars do and how they do it. People are talking about whether Mendeley will treat all publishers equally like Scopus does... there is a difference. Scopus is built on citations, which anyone could in theory get with enough money. With Mendeley, Elsevier gets workflow information, and no other publishers get that. It is a smart move for them, but a blow to people who think that propping up Elsevier is not best for the industry.
- Heather Piwowar
yes. please write that blog post.
- RepoRat
Will try but no time today. Someone else free free to beat me to it, no need for attribution.
- Heather Piwowar
the way things have worked before, a given aggregator only had access to individual user behavior related to their own publications, and not even always (library proxy servers protect people to some extent). Now Elsevier knows what every Mendeley user is reading and saving; they may even know some of where Mendeley users *get* what they read and save. if that doesn't seem worrisome to people, they weren't paying attention to the Attributor thing.
- RepoRat
link to Attributor thing?
- Heather Piwowar
http://scientopia.org/blogs... and http://scientopia.org/blogs... I think Elsevier would LOVE to peg Mendeley users who aren't clearly downloading via library or toll-gate access mechanisms.
- RepoRat
Even if they are, the shared groups (which I'll admit to having been one to encourage for cross campus collab) means all the researchers then have access.
- Hedgehog
But doesn't this mean they're going to start getting sued like whoa? I mean, it was my understanding that Mendeley's provision of (some of?) this data to the publishers was one of the only reasons they weren't already getting sued like whoa.
- Meg V. Meg
Bjoern Brembs says http://bjoern.brembs.net/comment...
- Graham Steel
Meg, I hadn't heard that. Got linky? Because that's a reeeeeeally interesting angle.
- RepoRat
Hard to stop thinking about Mendeley-as-elsevier-loyalty-card for data collection. I'm not thinking about it wrt subscription enforcement, but rather as intelligence for future Elsevier product innovations. Future product innovations that help Elsevier as priority #1 and scholarship and open scholarship with the same priority Elsevier has previously shown.
- Heather Piwowar
Is Meg referring to something like what Jason Hoyt mentioned this moring? http://enjoythedisruption.com/post...
- Hedgehog
And now VictorH says http://paidcontent.org/2013...
- Graham Steel
Heather, regarding the insight available through the API and user activity. Imagine Elsevier was out of the picture, what would you say if Mendeley used it to do the same for itself. Develop and innovate on features that it had exclusive insight to, toward its own advancement?
- Ricardo Vidal
I'd be ok with that. I've been assuming that's what you've been doing till now.
- Heather Piwowar
So, following that logic, because you see Elsevier as evil, you consider that they'll certainly use the same tools to their advantage. Which is therefore bad.
- Ricardo Vidal
Suber chimes in - https://plus.google.com/u...
- Graham Steel
I don't consider Elsevier evil. I consider them interested entirely in their own bottom line and very demonstrably willing to make decisions that are not in the best interest of science to defend and promote it. I don't want to help them do that with papers, my review hours, or my click data.
- Heather Piwowar
as somebody said recently in a different context, if you're using their products when you have a choice, then you are funding their work. Unfortunately, academic libraries don't have much choice when it comes to subscribing to the journals, but we do have a choice of citation management platforms
- DJF
from Android
So we've talked about the enforcement angle and they understand this would be a really dumb thing to try to do. They want us more as a application platform since the whole Sciverse Apps thing didn't go all that well.
- Mr. Gunn
Thanks for the feedback Heather. I see your point and can only hope that we can keep doing our good work and proving Mendeley a valuable tool and resource for researchers.
- Ricardo Vidal
We've so far been successful with the approach that Open Access papers are read more, but if all the OA advocates leave Mendeley, then it's going to be hard to keep making that case. Having a strong OA community *within* Mendeley is really important and I hope people will stick around to show them that.
- Mr. Gunn
soooo... instead we should implicitly say "Elsevier sucks except when they own something we like?" That's a stance I personally am kinda uncomfortable with. Like PSuber, tho, have never been a Mendeley user, so easy for me to say -- I'll just chug right along with Zotero the way I've been doing.
- RepoRat
yes, but having good quality data accepted by even the most conservative groups showing the OA advantage certainly helps, and that's what Mendeley can provide
- Mr. Gunn
well, there will be less data on OA papers, less people doing interesting OA-related things with the data, etc. That's why I think people should stay. Just picking up your toys and going home is the easy way out.
- Mr. Gunn
Sure, if we were children, and if this were a game. However, "if you're using their products when you have a choice, then you are funding their work"
- Meg V. Meg
And if I trusted Elsevier with the kind of data I would put into Mendeley. Here's the thing: I DON'T. That's not entirely Elsevier's fault (MIT and JSTOR and Attributor and Facebook own some of the blame, among others)... but I don't think Elsevier has exactly covered itself with glory, either, and it's *crystal* clear which financial side of the bread is buttered. Do I trust Elsevier to resist temptation for the sake of ethics? THEY HIRED ERIC DEZENHALL FFS. No. I don't.
- RepoRat
So I'm glad that Mr. Gunn and Ricardo Vidal think Elsevier will do right by all this, and I think *they* believe that; I don't believe they're trying to blow smoke up FF's collective arse. I just... don't believe that will remain the case. Temptation much too great. Elsevier won't fsck up tomorrow, or the day after... but they'll fsck up. Guarandamnteed.
- RepoRat
Elsevier is a big big place. I wish I could quote to you from the email I just got from some people within Elsevier promising their support in helping us make a business case for openness - saying they're our allies, but acknowledging that a huge organization like this isn't all going to be aligned internally.
- Mr. Gunn
I got some great email about a global text mining plan too. Many people there really believed it. There was a time and a place and a scheduled tweetup. Plug got pulled.
- Heather Piwowar
from iPhone
no organization is immune from having plans canceled
- Mr. Gunn
I agree. Though it wasn't a passive "plans were cancelled". Someone at Else cancelled the plans because they were too liberal/edgy/threatening even though had all sign offs till the day before. I just share that story to say we all know great email doesn't always work out.
- Heather Piwowar
from iPhone
Fair enough. Just pointed it out to show some nuance beyond the "everyone at Elsevier is evil and eats puppies" narrative extant. I have a feeling the task is even bigger than I realize, but that can't stop me from trying, and that really shouldn't stop you from supporting me, either.
- Mr. Gunn
I'll try really hard not to take the quote "everyone at Elsevier is evil and eats puppies" out of context when I cite it in my next paper. :-)
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
I haven't seen that narrative on this thread. I'm trying hard to figure out a good way to support you that is consistent with what I believe, because I want to support you William Gunn :)
- Heather Piwowar
from iPhone
I support you, man. I just think they're gonna fuck you over, and it makes me sad. I do not want them to do that.
- RepoRat
I do recognize the possibility, but I have to give it a shot.
- Mr. Gunn
Salon commented here: Elsevier: All your data belongs to us http://www.salon.com/2013... via @Salon
- WarLord
"some people within Elsevier promising their support in helping us make a business case for openness" Yes, and I'm sure all the hundreds of trillions of bacteria living in/on Hannibal Lecter and all his trillions non-neuronal cells were all nice and friendly - if only it wasn't for the measly 70-90b of neurons in his skull... Quite likely, the large majority of people working at...
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- Björn Brembs
I honor your efforts, Mr. Gunn. They remind me no little of my own vis-a-vis the libraries I've worked in.
- RepoRat
This post captures Heather's sentiment, I think: http://www.salon.com/2013...
- Björn Brembs
Maybe I will try my hand at a timeline of blog posts kinda like what John D does.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Mendeley may want to look at the fate of BioMedNet, sold to Elsevier by the Current Science Group in 1998 and shelved in 2004: http://newsbreaks.infotoday.com/nbreade...; http://www.sarahgreene.net/past-pr...
- Matt Hodgkinson
Wow, I haven't been back here in ages. Been trying to sort out my own thoughts on this...and I don't think I have a clear answer. I have a Mendeley account, I use it for a bunch of things including feeding the bibliography on my blog, and I haven't deleted it yet. Matt's point is the one that troubles me, Elsevier do have a history of running things into the ground. On the other hand it...
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- Cameron Neylon
...but there is another side to this which is that I know some of those cancelled projects of which Heather speaks and they had lots of those good people in them. So I worry about the inverse problem. What will happen to those people who have been on the inside working for change (and being shafted from time to time) now that there is a new shiny Open thing, both as the beacon everyone...
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- Cameron Neylon
Like Cameron, I haven't made my mind up yet. Personally, I don't intend to delete my Mendeley account at present.
- Graham Steel
"It was the destruction of BioMedNet that meant Vitek could hire a bunch of people to create BMC." So I should be grateful to Elsevier for my career :)
- Matt Hodgkinson
I also remember when Elsevier bought the Beilstein database, and they have since greatly marked up access to that data. 1998 and 2007 were key years of that. http://www.elsevier.com/about... This is kinda similar.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
fwiw, i posted on it here: http://scientopia.org/blogs... I'm pretty pragmatic when it comes to this sort of thing. It's not my primary reference manager (RefWorks is, sigh), but I intend to keep my account.
- Christina Pikas
I also intend to keep my account, so that I can keep on putting stuff into the OA Irony Award group. A good bit of it from Elsevier.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
(Slightly offtopic: here in this conversation we see what we lost when FF took a nosedive. This thread is better than all the scattered tweets and news links put together. I'm thinking it's time to re-invest in FF, since the sky hasn't actually fallen (I was a Chicken Little myself)...)
- Bill Hooker
Good call. I'm in.
- Graham Steel
Something slightly ironic about returning because its back to a smaller group of people though...
- Cameron Neylon
"Hate" to say it - but other than monitoring Refs Wanted Room, FF is a dead donkey for me and has been for quite a while. Other than Libranians, it's a ghost town to what it was in the past.Twitter & Google+ for moi.
- Graham Steel
Have to admit I saw a link to Heather's post and thought "oh yes, Friendfeed, I remember when I went there..."But it is still here and functioning clearly which is interesting in itself. There must be some measure of maintenance and upkeep going on behind the scenes.
- Cameron Neylon
y'all should come back. Nothing else is as good.
- Heather Piwowar
Yeah, it's still pretty awesome and unlike anything out there.
- Ricardo Vidal
It remains the best. Reminds me of my empeg :-) http://www.empeg.com/
- Björn Brembs
Cameron, it's good to read your thoughts here. It's a good point also about BMC, which is itself now a part of Springer. I hope FF is still here 4 years from now when open access is the default and everyone realizes this ;-)
- Mr. Gunn
I've just blogged about Elsevier's emerging workflows here. http://www.darkrepository.net/blog... Scopus a big winner IMO.
- Garret McMahon
Fun! My paper with @tjvision is @thePeerJ preprint #1 :) https://peerj.com/preprints/1/
Kubke, Björn Brembs, Graham Steel and 5 other people liked this
I will admit to stalking the @thePeerJ site a little till the preprint "Submit" button appeared. To each their own fun :)
- Heather Piwowar
One is most amused by your comment, Heather. "Well done for being number one" !!!!
- Graham Steel
RT @invisiblecomma Please read Carl Malamud's JSTOR-related essay, and think about what it means to read "too many articles too quickly" http://fax.org/YVSb19
Yo Joe. No, go slow. liked this
Articles in the April 2013 #altmetrics ASIST Bulletin special issue are all CC-BY... because in my role as guest-editor I simply asked the authors if they'd publish them that way (in addition to the non-exclusive license to publish that is normal for the Bulletin), and the authors all said yes. Sometimes changing free to open is that simple....
Kubke, Egon Willighagen, Yo Joe. No, go slow. and 5 other people liked this
Thanks, authors! Link to issue is here: http://asis.org/bulletin.html
- Heather Piwowar
(of course the Bulletin isn't really set up to clearly mark the papers as CC-BY, and I didn't have time to lobby for inclusion of the image etc so unless people read my intro they won't know... but hey it is a step :) )
- Heather Piwowar
Inspired by a friendfeeder, I just emailed this: I hadn't heard of Edwin Mellen Press before these lawsuits and take-down notices. I've heard of you now, and may I just say: what behaviour. Why don't you just defend your reputation in blog comments or through positive press, rather than using this unwelcome and over-reaching legal process? You...
Steele Lawman, Katy S, John Dupuis and 6 other people liked this
You aren't getting any of my business, authoring or buying. Heather
- Heather Piwowar
Emailed to Ms Lang in Marketing http://www.mellenpress.com/mellenp...
- Heather Piwowar
you are awesome!
- Sir Shuping is just sir
Inspired by the comment by Steve on this post. Thanks, Steve. https://chronicle.com/blogs...
- Heather Piwowar
Some sock puppets have tried to defend their rep in some blog posts, but it has not been umm fruitful.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
From email convo. Nature's Terms of Use: http://www.nature.com/info... Using The Site point 4. The "provided" is only for copying. The restrictions on downloading seem additional and are a terms of use issue... I don't believe these would be touched by UK copyright law. Standard legalese or not, it is fairly unintelligible as a sentence,...
Yo Joe. No, go slow. liked this
and Nature can surely do better :) If Nature wanted to facilitate textmining, they could so by stating it clearly here no matter what the state of the copyright law. Instead this sentence seems clearly meant to deter it.
- Heather Piwowar
Nature (Macmillan Publishing) doesn't *want* to do better. Timo et al. probably do, but they don't make the decisions -- money does. Every day that the subscription model survives, every day that publishers retain control of all kinds over the scholarly record, is another day of higher profits than will be possible in an 100% OA world. So NPG is doing everything they can to delay OA --...
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- Bill Hooker
I know. But they want to look like they want to do better. So I think publicly (or in broadly cc'd email) highlighting ways they can do better can be effective. fwiw I heard Timo talk about textmining at Charleston and he seemed in no rush to make that situation lots better... it was pretty depressing.
- Heather Piwowar
This is where I get to squeee that I'm now sometimes quoted in articles I used to just find and read and add to my PDF library, right? SQUEEEE! :) I do not take this for granted, even if maybe the normal thing would be to act all cool about it. I don't really do cool, for better and for worse...
Yo Joe. No, go slow., Betsy #TeamMonique, Sarah and 8 other people liked this
Squee away!
- RepoRat
squeee :)
- Heather Piwowar
I admit that at least where Roach Motel is concerned, I'm in a very curmudgeonly "why the hayull has the discourse not moved on from this yet? it's been out there for six years!" space.
- RepoRat
Text mining hits the pages of Nature News again, and quotes me from my blog #bloggingTotallyWorthIt http://www.nature.com/news...
Matt Hodgkinson, Björn Brembs, Yo Joe. No, go slow. and 3 other people liked this
Doesn't *link* to the blog, mind you. Maybe that hyperlinking thing will catch on one of these days?
- Heather Piwowar
nah, hyperlinks are just a fad.
- RepoRat
Hypercolor's where the money's at.
- Meg V. Meg
I have a HyperCard stack about that very topic.
- Catherine Pellegrino
I guess I could add the link here, in case anyone finds this and wonders: http://researchremix.wordpress.com/2013...
- Heather Piwowar
In which I stop pulling punches with H Morrison (comments): https://plus.google.com/u...
Kubke, Björn Brembs, Bill Hooker and 13 other people liked this
you go, girl
- Meg V. Meg
So her arguments not really making sense isn't just my reading comprehension problem? Good to know.
- kendrak
Why is she being a jerk when you're essentially on the same team?
- Christina Pikas
from iPhone
she's not the only one who does that, PETER MURRAY-RUST and MICHAEL EISEN and STEVAN HARNAD and LI'L RICKY POYNDER. (There, see, they've got ME doing it.)
- RepoRat
She picked her preferred solution to OA, NC-SA licenses, and now uses any argument going - no matter how illogical or weak - to support this chosen solution and criticise CC-BY. At least she doesn't post boilerplate responses, yet.
- Matt Hodgkinson
I've had Christina's question in mind for a while, and I think RR has the answer of sorts (and maybe add Bremb to that list). In Morrison's case, part of me hears a need to be The Authority on OA (with a doctorate on the subject and all). I suspect SK does less harm to OA than its "OA BUT ONLY ON MY TERMS!" advocates. Heather P, good to see you in the Suber camp (as I interpret the route you're taking).
- Walt Crawford
The OA movement does seem to attract a fair bit of almost religious zeal on the part of some of its adherents. I think they all want to be pope of OA. Locking them in the Sistine Chapel and maybe losing the key doesn't seem like a bad idea.
- John Dupuis
And the whole "nobody can charge for anything ever" isn't part of my definition of OA.
- John Dupuis
it feels very empowering to call a trolling comment a trolling comment. I should do this more often.
- Heather Piwowar
John: That last one is particularly interesting. Peter S. and others (e.g., Walt C) have noted for years that it would be both appropriate and interesting for a Gold OA journal to make all refereed articles free and charge for (a) print subscriptions, (b) non-refereed editorial material. I believe Science, for example, would do very well with such a structure. And be in the letter & spirit of OA.
- Walt Crawford
Yup, BMJ has this model I believe. I do think it is a bit too bad... there is lots of great stuff in the magazine section that it would be better if the whole wide world could read.... but people gotta charge for something and the moral/research-progress arguments for magazine content being OA just aren't as strong. (fwiw this is why I was willing to write non-OA content for Nature's magazine section)
- Heather Piwowar
Absolutely. The idea that only a very small number of business models are "pure" is counter productive, especially for non-scholarly content. (ie: http://scienceblogs.com/confess...)
- John Dupuis
Walt, I forgot to mention: yup, I am in the Suber camp on pretty much everything. If I ever find myself not in the Suber camp I reevaluate my position because I am likely wrong :)
- Heather Piwowar
You folks are giving me so many good ideas for fresh material for my late-April OA precon (if enough people sign up for it). Keep it coming. (Sorry: Mild threadjack.)
- Walt Crawford
+1 Heather.
- John Dupuis
HM's comments are head-scratching, that's to be sure. It's like she's arguing that if Elsevier made its content CC-BY and then someone else developed a fee-based commercial product around that content that somehow the original OA content is thereafter compromised or less useful or no longer OA. Am I reading her totally wrong?
- John Dupuis
It's like how some people think gay marriage rights somehow affect the sanctity or validity of existing straight marriages.
- John Dupuis
I think you're reading her right, which is wildly frustrating.
- Walt Crawford
I lost interest in HM when she emailed me this last year:- We chat a lot in public - you are an awesome advocate of open access, if I haven't said so before - but of course I know very little about you. How are you doing? Where are you in your studies? I am assuming that the reason you chose this line of research is because of your brother? I hope that this is not a sore point. Why am I...
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- Graham Steel
It's like a car crash, I can't look away.
- John Dupuis
That, Graham, may be the most patronising e-mail I have seen! Parsing it as '*I* know OA, leave it to me, you do whatever Sciency stuff it is you do'
- Pete #TeamMonique
Yeah, I think you were oaexpertsplained.
- John Dupuis
Wow. Just wow.
- Walt Crawford
I deliberated on 3 options and in the end, chose not to even bother replying.
- Graham Steel
Thanks John. A >>>completely unrelated<<< slowmo car crash video https://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Graham Steel
HM is unexplainable. Does she not understand that the source remains oa and freely available no matter what happens to the downstream revisions and mashups?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Not cool to post private email in public, even when said email is weapons-grade assholery.
- Bill Hooker
I'll hold my fire on Stevan Harnad, and PMR just pisses me off every time he shows up these days (what the fuck is with the stuffed animals? is he losing his marbles?). But Eisen and Brembs are very much part of the solution imo; without a few strong voices on the OA side it's too easy for the SKitchers and allies to slide the Overton Window their way. And how is Richard Poynder a problem??
- Bill Hooker
"Not cool to post private email in public" Agreed and won't do so again, Bill. (Have never done so before but I felt it was appropriate in the context of this thread though).
- Graham Steel
Eisen doesn't often screw this up, but when he does -- as IMO he did with the reaction to the OSTP memo -- he does it big. Brembs is very, very good at pushing organizationally infeasible Big Plans, which makes me (at least) shut right down when he starts up with his "libraries will save us!" crazytalk. Poynder has openly dissed libraries and librarians, taking his cues there from Harnad and PMR.
- RepoRat
@404: I've argued with HM about exactly that. She worries about incentives for the commercial entity doing the enclosing to try to do away with the original, OA, source version. E.g. EvilCo™ Publishers duplicates PubMed Central and then lobbies the US gummint, which is famously and horribly susceptible to such nonsense, to reduce costs by defunding PMC itself. (Not to put words in HM's mouth here, any errors mine etc) (Edit: PubMed Central, not PubMed)
- Bill Hooker
@RR -- ah, mine own ox was not directly gored by RP so I missed that. Mea culpa. Eisen is a good sport, you can yell right back at him (I did, over the OSTP memo, and I am but an egg in his HHMI-funded presence). Brembs can also take it as well as dish it, but I understand if you are just tired of pointing out where ugly facts undermine his beautiful theories about libraries and what they can do in the real world.
- Bill Hooker
Apropos: http://del-fi.org/post...
- Bill Hooker
I'll admit that I'm likely deluding myself as to how much of the potential libraries have, they will be able to realize. However, I find the potential is large enough to warrant unrealistic visions and push for them. And besides, my library now does pretty much exactly what I would dream all libraries should be doing, and so is the entire TU Delft, so it can't be totally out of this...
more...
- Björn Brembs
Plus, I do feel somewhat sad to find myself on a blacklist set up by people who I thought were on the same team as me... :-)
- Björn Brembs
Oh hey, there's no blacklist, there's just us arguing. It's all good.
- Bill Hooker
@bb I'm quite enjoying the reactions to your recent article -I read a lot of the thoughts on your blog but having them in an article seems to be getting more attention.
- Christina Pikas
from iPhone
What Bill says. There's no blacklist. Well, there is, but only SK is on it.
- Walt Crawford
Bjorn, don't worry you're definitely on my non-black list. I really do appreciate your vision of the role that libraries could play in scholarly communications, even if the path from here to there can be a bit hard to visualize at times.
- John Dupuis
Following up on FF thread from a while ago, I finally blogged about PMC bulk downloading restrictions and whether they are necessary due to copyright, as claimed. Please come weigh in? https://researchremix.wordpress.com/2013...
Björn Brembs, John Dupuis and Yo Joe. No, go slow. liked this
Nothing substantive to add but thanks for bringing this some much needed attention. Egon asked related questions ages ago (http://sennoma.net/?p=621) and I never could find an answer anywhere.
- Bill Hooker
Why may Google textmine but Scientists may not? - http://researchremix.wordpress.com/2013...
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