Peter, I think FriendFeed is fighting a different battle that does not include Twitter. Facebook may get into real "lifestreaming" but I am not sure if that community is really ready. FriendFeed still needs some features before it gains more mainstream adoption.
- Rob Diana
Louis, I am assuming your comment is meant as "the conversations are occurring on FriendFeed". I do agree, but this was a Sunday morning rant purely about status updates :)
- Rob Diana
Well written Rob - the 'conversations' I've had recently stem from twitter, but took place on FF. Twitter is not conversation friendly.
- Mo Kargas
I've got to disagree - what makes a conversation? You can have short -exchanges, greetings, whatever, that might lead to longer ones. Some things CAN be said in 140 characters, lots of things, in fact; some conversations need more room. How long is a piece of string? Status updates ARE conversation, regardless of the platform.
- Chris Loft
Chris, the big problem is that a "status update" is one way. Without a coherent way to link them to others (and I don't think what Twitter offers now is coherent, for example), there's no way for those to be linked into conversation. It isn't the 140-character limit that's the problem.
- Scott of Two Countries
Chris, you can say some things in 140 chars, but the size limit is not the issue. As Scott says, the updates are one way. More importantly, there is no way to determine what one tweet is in reply to. There is no threading of a conversation, and barely any way to track replies to a specific tweet. This makes a "conversation" on Twitter or FB statuses much more difficult than it should be.
- Rob Diana
No, but they are good 'conversation starters' in my experience...at least on a site like Facebook that allows an actual threaded conversation on a status update.
- Steve just Steve
Rob, my comment was a status update providing conversation.
- Louis Gray
Commented on the blog, but I have to agree that having a discussion with multiple participants is currently impossible on Twitter unless you really know how to interface with Twitter search on-the-fly
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
@Rah, and even then the odds that your other participants are going to be doing the real-time search as well are pretty low. Check out the number of people using a hashtag at a conference vs. the number of people interacting within that hashtag's stream.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Exactly, I've had some hugely disappointing convos on Twitter, not because the subject matter wasn't good or the participants weren't intelligent, but because I could see the potential for the discussion if it had taken place on FF instead. Sometimes things just fizzle out because we can only see a piece of what's happening. Very frustrating.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
+ Steve. True, status updates make good conversation starters - but what is a conversation - you say something, I say something, we agree, disagree - our own conversations can only be one way - unnless there is a response. I agree that FF is much better than Twitter, or FB, in regard to quality - but a conversation can still progress, one sentence at a time. How many conversations start...
more...
- Chris Loft
Rahsheen, I think the context that gets lost amid the river of tweets is what hurts the conversation. Twitter was not built to be a conversation platform, but more of an update or broadcast platform. If they build those conversation features like threading, then all bets are off because it would be a different game entirely.
- Rob Diana
It had to happen sooner or later. I so disagree with you on this Louis. Where's that Disqus password ... comin' up! (and knocking on your door with some great investment options :)
- Charlie Anzman
Wait for the follow-on counterpoint, Charlie and Greg.
- Louis Gray
I politely, but vigorously, disagree. Yahoo, Google and NYT ... they all make money. What makes anyone think that Twitter can find a profit model where Facebook can't. The Web 1.0 environment is littered with companies that seemingly transformed our experience. Remember Webvan, or Kozmo (oh how I miss Kozmo), or Geocities or ... well, you get my point.
- AJ Kohn
louis - did you forget to take your meds? :)
- Allen Stern
I think we need to figure out just what Twitter is. Is the important thing about Twitter the the new paradigm of messaging based on "follows"? I still think the 140 character thing is an unimportant incidental. Or is Twitter a walled garden social network that can force users to come to it? I believe that Twitter is the former, and right now Twitter is the website people go to for that experience. Soon the "follow" will be a bolt-on feature to many web communities, and Twitter will be nothing special.
- Gregg H.
Allen (heh :). Louis - Reply is on your blog sir (and UDP is apparently awesome ....already in my FF stream!!)
- Charlie Anzman
*chuckle* okay ... point, counter point. Got it. It's clear which side I stand on ;)
- AJ Kohn
I think its great you posted both - great way to generate discussion.
- Eric
Reading through the various posts, I didn't see any real analysis on P2E or comparative size. Mostly anecdotal feelings of value. What is each active user worth? Problematically, not a lot of quantification. While it's nice to look back at the golden era of VC windfalls, I think there's a new economic reality and few will be willing to pony up like this. Not in cash anyways. Think south of 200. For enterprise, Twitter needs reliability before it can be a serious business service. Beyond lifestreaming.
- Cole Jolley
I'm followed by more people than anyone else here, according to http://www.ffholic.com/ but yet only one out of j39 people here are following me (26,009 follow me, TechCrunch reports that there's a million unique members on friendfeed). News organizations should understand these changes because they used to have great centralized distribution. Those days are now over. More to come shortly.
- Robert Scoble
I read your friend feed daily Robert to pick up on new information, see what you have to say about what's new in the world of technology and anything else that sparks my interest.
- Steve Eisenberg
Is it because the Kindle 2.0's coming out soon..;o)
- sofarsoShawn
It used to be that we watched three TV stations and read one or two newspapers. Those days are over. Now we follow our friends and get our news through http://search.twitter.com and Facebook. That has huge implications for news brands who no longer will be the place that we go to get news.
- Robert Scoble
Friendfeed is giving us a new kind of news distribution system. Thanks to "likes" we can tell our friends about things that are important. The news brands are NOT in charge of that distribution method and it drives them nuts and they don't understand it at all yet.
- Robert Scoble
The beauty of this is that it's interactive, and on friendfeed people actually want the discussion. There's something for everyone. More importantly though the network effect is still in play here.
- Richard A.
I talked with execs from LeFigaro, France's #1 newspaper on Thursday. They were interested, but from the look in their eyes I could tell they really don't understand how Facebook and friendfeed work to distribute news, not to mention http://search.twitter.com which was important during the aftermath of the plane crash.
- Robert Scoble
Richard: EXACTLY. This is two-way and news brands can't control it. They don't like this kind of news. They like the old way where they reported and you watched or read.
- Robert Scoble
One implication I see is that the traditional method for a news organization to build a brand are no longer relevant. What suggestions do you have for a news organization that does want to build a brand?
- Daniel Bachhuber
Over the last year or so I've found out about more breaking news from twitter/Friendfeed than from CNN etc. All the news sources don't cater to individuals while things like here are personalized.
- BCK
Daniel: make lots of friends on Facebook and friendfeed and Twitter. Understand how news gets spread and found and produced on these networks. Get EVERYONE that works for you a Kodak Zi6 camcorder or FlipCam and make them post videos. Get on Seesmic and Twhirl and TweetDeck. Understand why entrepreneurs around the world now have a TweetDeck screen on their desks.
- Robert Scoble
Daniel: I now have a real-time-web desk in my home with four computers so I can track what is going on in real time from around the world. Every news organziation should do this. Also, I now am following 7,000 here, 21,000 on Twitter, 5,000 on Facebook, 900 on Google Reader. That inbound lets me see what the world's conversation is and lets me see news before most people do. If I were an assigning editor at a newspaper, this is what I'd be doing. Then I'd be sending reporters out to get the real story.
- Robert Scoble
FriendFeed is a data flow that anyone can manipulate to get the right information for them. It's 1-to-1 news. It is annotated and made more valuable via comments, providing a real-time interaction with your own personal news. [edit] Welcome to the world Gibson imagined.
- AJ Kohn
Robert, even though brands can't control it, whats great is the Freindfeed encourages them to converse. By allowing to cross post a FF comment on Disqus for instance, brands and their customers can engage in the discussion both here and on their properties.
- Sameer
Sameer: been using diqus and I like how easy it makes commenting on all blogs that use it, and how simple keeping track of those comments is.
- Richard A.
I think it means 97.4% of people on FriendFeed do NOT use FF to keep up with the latest social media or web tech news. I'd say most people don't use FF as a source for news at all, but rather, to keep up what their friends are doing across the internets.
- Daniel Sims
Daniel: I would also open up hundreds of rooms here on friendfeed where they can track news stories and companies and people who are interesting to them and shove in all sorts of RSS feeds. Like what I'm doing with my Davos room. http://friendfeed.com/rooms...
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I don't disagree with you, but I think that it begs a larger discussion about the role of a *large* news brand. The news industry, imho, should focus on empowering communities to report their news, because the day and age of reporters as information *collectors* is gone.
- Daniel Bachhuber
Daniel: that is true, but that is also news and news spreads through these networks very quickly because we trust our friends and family to tell us when important stuff is happening in the world.
- Robert Scoble
Sameer said what I'd say. Now if I could just nudge a few of mine to converse here. The flow is great on friendfeed + the ease of seeing what people say on their other services they've linked here.
- mrsha
But the problem is that the technorati sometimes forgets about regular people and get so busy with recycling the same info and blowing flowers up each others backsides that you don't get any traction unless your content is tech related. How would a brand of soap, a car maker, or a blog about b grade movies use this kind of network?
- MarkCarras
Being able to discuss news, is where the power of FF lies in comparison to 'old-style' news. It's also a main differentiator of FF over Twitter. FF let's you get into discussions and get to know people. Twitter is 'just' the start/intro of that conversation. Each having their own merits.
- Ronald
Ronald, you also don't wait for a moderator to say they like the comment. As soon as it's said you get feedback.
- Richard A.
Robert, just because there are lots of people here doesn't make this a particularly interesting place for brands. Most of the stuff happening here is volatile. Btw I noticed that I'm nr 556 on that list. Pretty high imo since I tend to not be so serious about FF ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
FF, twitter, FB, etc all provide word of mouth recommendations, which most of us trust much more than something being "sold" to us
- Ryan
Alexander: newsbrands will LOVE friendfeed rooms. Just wait and see.
- Robert Scoble
I hope to bring FriendFeed to my friends and Norwegian people. I'm trying as good as I can to talk positive about both FriendFeed and Twitter, but Norwegians are not that easy to convince... I see the potential.
- Qbat
Alexander: Brands don't have a choice really. If critical discussions start happening on this platform and the Goog starts indexing it, it better become "particularly interesting" over night. Volatile or dormant becomes less of an issue.
- Sameer
"from the look in their eyes I could tell they really don't understand" Likely those execs were born too soon to get it. Eventually they will retire and they will be replaced with those that understand. Not sure how long that will take.
- Phil Margolies
to me this means that the quantity and quality of a network becomes ever so important. who are the connectors, who are the amplifiers, who are the ones who stop information, the negative connectors or de-amplifiers, how many amplifiers are needed depending on the vertical or the brand or the product or the strategy and goals. and how do these amplifiers will use their new powers within a given network? fascinating.
- Pascal Bouvier
Yes, this means that the decentralized networks are important; but I'd guess that at least 1 in 3 FF users gets their news from mainstream news sites like CNN.com, Bloomberg.com, cnbc, etc; many FF and Twitter users use microblogging platforms to get less formal news - the info not available through the traditional platforms.
- Barry Graubart
Maybe a future video-blog post: I think it would be neat to see your real-time-web-desk with four computers.
- Bill Romanos
@robert scoble if you film that do it in the highest res possible :-)
- Richard A.
if one out of every 39 on here follows you, and everyone on twitter is worth $42, how much does that make us worth on here? hmm?
- rob friedman
does the fact that Twitter doesn't allow its tweets to be indexed by search engines (a good move IMHO...can you imagine the clutter otherwise?) decay the total value of the service?
- Jason Salas
from IM
Jason, what do you mean? If you think tweets aren't indexed, try a Google search for "wajiii plightbo".
- Bill Jackson
from twhirl
Robert - At present, agreed that your comments could in fact make a difference ... maybe even be a responsibility. On the other hand, that 'power' could quickly be diluted by someone (or numerous people) working hard to generate a similar following on Friendfeed. In the meantime. Use it wisely and YOU can make a difference. Everyone else needs to realize that the landscape has changed .... and they can too...in many ways
- Charlie Anzman
Robert - I do not think any larger news brand that is currently out there could implement the type of news aggregation and reporter assignment system that you spoke about to the other Daniele earlier. I think that any incredibly innovative idea like that has to come from a new, fresh organization. Journalism of the future will soon be coming. But not from a CNN, MSNBC, FOX, or other.
- Daniel Zarick
p.s. I have seen a picture of your real-time desk, but I would like to see a video of it all in action too.
- Daniel Zarick
@daniel believe me you don't wanna see it. You must be a currency broker to get used to the speed of his real-time feed. I've seen it on CES and it was just crazy. Btw. as someone who just explored twitter and friendfeed and all this stuff, a couple of weeks ago, my personal conclusion is: Hell, i missed something out.
- Sascha Pallenberg
@Robert Scoble: FFholic (aka FriendFeedHolic) tracks 185207 public and 23445 private users on FriendFeed, now. And surely, this is nearly the total number of users on FriendFeed.
- Arda Kutsal
Tech Specs? It looks neat (due to te live stream), but Windows was a no-go! I hope it's Linux-based.
- masa media - Martin
@Scobleizer Do you like whatever Palm you saw at #ces09 more than the n95? Either way, there's one major drawback: PalmOS. Nova or not, I haven't seen anything ever from Palm to make me want to even try to get excited.
- Matt Albiniak
Betamax=Palm. Will they have the library of Apps to make it sell?
- Andrew Leyden
For a long time, Palm's weakest spot has been their support. It sucks. Until they improve their customer relations philosophy and stop outsourcing support, I doubt anything is going to change for Palm.
- andrei_c
I agree. Poor support was why i left after buying at least half a dozen Palm products. But I wish them well, and this phone looks sweet.
- Chris Baskind
wow i need to look into this. that's saying a lot.
- rab
from twhirl
How well will it work with my Mac? That's why I own an iPhone :-) Lock-in
- Jesse Stay
Robert: Oh yeah? Does Palm have an App Store?
- Rutger Blom
@ Robert A.: he's not dead yet. He's getting better. He thjinks he'll go for a walk.
- John Craft
if it doesn't have multitouch - its completely useless. People underestimate just what a killer feature this is. Also does it have an app store? Remember the Apple app store adds "killer" social networking features
- Anthony Feint
I love these Day 1 predictions. They are almost always wrong :)
- Bwana ☠
So .. when does pricing come out for this baby?
- Tyler (Chacha)
The thing that's killing me here is Engadget says "The keyboard is Centro-esque, with shallow presses and cramped spacing." which is consistent with the photos. I'm a 755p owner and lifelong Palm users, but the Centro-sized keyboard is just utterly useless to me. Sigh.
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert is a serial new concept/product fawner. Give him a few days to catch his breathe, read what others say, then I am sure he will have an altered opinion.
- Brian Sullivan
Can't wait to see one of these in the real world. The flexibility and openness of the Palm OS puts Apple to shame. Was considering the iTouch to replace my trusty TX, but I'll wait to see if this flies.
- Chuck
Completely agree. Can't wait to see it in the wild. Competition ftw
- Dean Clark
We have to give Robert a couple of weeks before his true opinion comes out. He gets excited a little too quickly - but that's him. Everything new is the best there ever was ;).
- Kamath (नमः)
FatOracle: sorry, this one is the real deal. I played with it more this afternoon. I do love new stuff, but this one is worth looking at.
- Robert Scoble
not sure about "lot nicer than" iPhone, but at first glance, it looks a lot nicer than the G1 or Storm. wasn't expecting much from Palm, but they have pulled a rabbit from the hat here.
- Karim
Karim: if you saw the iPhone next to the Palm Pre, I think you'd agree that the Palm beats it overall except in applications.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - I've been reading first hand accounts all over the web, and the general consensus seems the same: everyone was blown away. It's too bad it doesn't translate via images and video for those who haven't physically seen it. I can't wait to see it with my own two eyes. Thank you so much for checking back in to update us!
- Mona Nomura
Robert, do you know if Tmobile is going to support the Pre?
- Matthew DeVries
I keep hearing the new palm is better, I deal in facts, how, why is it better?
- James Ostheimer
@matthew devries I think initially Palm Pre will only be on Sprint.
- Rajiv Doshi
OH! You probably missed it, but the FastCompany chat was hilarious! If it's logged and you have time, skim through it. I think it'll make you laugh haha But quickly: Palm. thugs. taking one for the team. LOL
- Mona Nomura
The Pre might be different, but Palm has historically rolled out devices on multiple carriers within 6mo or so after the initial rollout. For example, most recently the Centro was launched on Sprint in Oct 2007, then rolled out on AT&T in Feb 08 and Verizon in June 2008.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, let's hope that's the extent of which history will repeat itself. I still have a bad taste in my mouth because of Palm
- Bwana ☠
Wow the new handset is really impressive. Not sure about their OS roadmap, will developers follow? *always had a Palm before switching to iPhone*
- Paul Papadimitriou
from Nambu
"The Palm Pre will gather all of your information from your Exchange account, your Gmail account and your Facebook account and display them in a single, unduplicated format." http://is.gd/eWXA
- Ken Sheppardson
Unstable UX on Tungsten W and Treo 600 platforms.
- Bwana ☠
Watched robert's movie, still don't get it, looks like the iphone with a keyboard, I have gotten pretty darn good with the iphone keyboard, not sure that tiny thing will help. The scroll not on the screen is kinda cool, but really not such a big deal to me. What else is so great?
- James Ostheimer
Bwana: I've lived with a Pilot 1000, Pilot Pro, III, V, VII, m500, 650, and 755p, so I feel your pain RE instability (i.e. random lockups and resets). Good news is this really doesn't sound like just an incremental PalmOS upgrade, so it might be a fresh start/set of expectations.
- Ken Sheppardson
James - it's not the formfactor, it's the software and usability. Did you see how the OS multi tasks?
- Mona Nomura
While this may not be the fabled "iPhone Killer"---Judging from the info. @ Palm.com this looks like it will keep Palm in the game.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
I just hope they didn't lay off too many of the minds who came up with the OS. Recall they had another round of layoffs in November (but who didn't). Granted, they did say it was primarily sales & marketing in the announcement, I'm still extremely skeptical. http://www.palminfocenter.com/news...
- Bwana ☠
Bwana: revolutionary products change our expectations.
- Robert Scoble
+1 Bwana - I was wondering the same thing earlier today.
- ronin
I'm not convinced :) I'll have to wait until I can use one myself.
- Bwana ☠
Bwana, the difference is that the Palm does not require you to be net connected to use the app. They just use "web technologies" for their API. I still think it's the biggest flaw in the system. They'll never get the games ecosystem that iPhone has without native apps, that's for sure.
- invariant - farewell FF
So the multi-tasking is multiple browser windows/tabs? Are you kidding?
- Bwana ☠
@invariant it depends on what the API actually gives you the ability to do, let's wait and see, I'll agree with you that it's unlikely given what they have announced that you'll be able to build super rich apps, but who knows what the API allows
- Justin Yost
Bwana: Yes, and no. Justin: Some incredible things have been done in Javascript so I won't count it out completely, but you're seeing great games on iPhone because companies and individuals can leverage the wealth of game code and experienced engineers using C/C++.
- invariant - farewell FF
Palm Pre, better or not... It's more a question of giving iPhone some substantial competition in the social/mobile space.
- Brad Kligerman
innovation promotes innovation. this is all great for consumers.
- Davide D'Incau
Will you stand in line 24 hours to get it?
- Oudi Antebi
The iPhone was presented with an emphasis on not allowing general multitasking (like WinMo) because of battery life issue. Apple design decision (it *is* a unix derived os after all), not Palm innovation. Besides, what I see from comments here it may not be native app multitasking? Then it looks like the "multitasking allowing part of the API" is just like the first iPhone SDK which was also just based on web technologies.
- Thomas Bøhm
Thomas, the key difference you're missing is that applications on the first generation iPhone could only run inside the browser, and were entirely server-based. Basically, the first iPhone "API" was nothing of the sort - it was simply a set of guidelines for developing optimal web apps.
- Ian Betteridge
I love all these iPhone fans who simply cannot believe anyone might make a phone which is better than theirs. Particularly those who don't understand that using Javascript and HTML as the core of your developer environment does not mean you're "just building web apps which run in a browser."
- Ian Betteridge
Perhaps we should wait until these are available for sale, maybe use one for a while, then form an opinion?
- Sam
from twhirl
Oh Sam, that would be far too rational ;)
- Ian Betteridge
Just checked the palm site about Pre. There is GPS in it.
- Olivier Castets
Ian: Oh well, aside from your belittling comment to me, I think the only later publicized iphone feature (not publ b/c of user/media push for native sdk?) which allow web apps to start up in only the webkit engine (own process without safari gui) and the later possibility to add web apps to home screen just like other apps, is a very similar idea. Whether it was an SDK or a mobile webkit feature is debateable of course, but later native sdk added local containers too.
- Thomas Bøhm
If this is Roberts reactions, apple execs must be having kittens.
- Roberto Bonini
@Ian you are not Of The Body. Landru Jobs will deal with you ;)
- John Craft
A blog post is coming for me that is to the effect of: "Palm, why did you go and announce the Pre right after I bought the iPhone? Why, Santa Claus, Why?" I am a longstanding Palm fan.
- Martha
yea i want it too. but IMO iPhone still got the look
- snydez
Technologywise palm doesn't have much new, but implementation is everything, so it will be interesting to see full-on-reviews. They *may* have something interesting for me at least, since I wish Apple had followed the "webOS" idea through too. Maybe with a Ruby, or at least Javascript, compatible API on board as well. (Which is available from third-party container generators, only not from Apple themselves). The "gemstone" keyboard on the other hand, I don't know.
- Thomas Bøhm
It seems wonderful, shiny and new. But signs are that it'll be more expensive than iPhone, perhaps significantly so, and tied to a horrible network I will never, ever, ever, ever use.
- Fred Ochsenhirt
I wouldn't say it's nicer, but the UI definitely has some innovation, and attention to detail... the rounded corners and gesturing are nicely done - probably the first communications device since the iPhone 3G to garner any unique praise
- Nathan Chase
What'd they put in the Palm koolaid to make Scoble say that?! iPhone not as cool now? heresy!
- Susan Beebe
It sounds great, the Pre has got some awesome press already. Palm OS has been falling way behind when it comes to their products, but this looks like it may catapult them back into the running against RIM and Apple.
- Aram Zucker-Scharff
Hmm, I can't decide, although the N97 looks great tech-wise. I'll look forward to seeing both hit the shores of the UK soon, though.
- Tyson Key
Like I said last night, I think Palm jumped into this game way too late. And I say this despite being a Palm loyalist since 1999. I still have a Treo, but my next phone will likely NOT be Palm.
- Tamar Weinberg
"As TorrentFreak points out, the figures are even more remarkable among men aged 18-29, where The Pirate Party polls a staggering 55%. If an election was to take place today, The Pirate Party would poll higher than the Greens, resulting in over 19 seats in the Swedish Parliament..."
- Anthony Citrano
These piracy laws are just getting weirder and weirder here in Sweden, with the FRA-law and IPRED-law...
- Patrik Johansson
Robert how much higher is the revenue???
- Susan Beebe
mattpovey - As someone who libels and assaults frequently... that scares me!
- Andrew
Susan: the bird wouldn't discuss numbers other than to say all estimates he has seen are low.
- Robert Scoble
great news. they've really captured the way people communicate quiet effectively.
- Rahul Krishnakumar
I just can't make myself like Facebook. In part I think it's not really wanting to keep up with old friends. Don't get me started on the stupid apps and the layout.
- BEX
Facebook is really growing in my neck of the woods...TONS of co-workers have jumped on FB now... all happening VERY fast. Transparency is the new reality. I get folks calling me from work asking how all this "social" sh*t works... LOL pretty shocked n00bies!
- Susan Beebe
I wonder if the progression remains "neopets" --> "myspace" --> "facebook" .. both my daughters went through these three distinct stages. IRC was in there for a bit; followed by forums and blogs; and now they just IM
- LPH™ and his dog P™
It is amazing how many customers now you directly communicate with on a daily basis through SMS, twitter and facebook.
- Shaun Haney
Most blogs report $150 m? I would put it between 200-300 M based on back of envelope calculations that assume a low RPM
- Bindu Reddy
Who told you? I am guessing someone from Facebook. They get a bad story, they "leak" to you it's not true, you post it. People believe you. Why don't they just people what they make if they care. Posting like this make you look like a shill.
- Michael Stearne
i never pay a attention to the adv on FB right slider.so the revenue i think should be lower than most blogs have reported:D
- jedorstar
If I could pay ten bucks to insta-ban all annoying app requests and pathetic ads, and more options for designing my front page, I'd go for it...
- Terry O'Fee
When this is anything more than unsubstantiated rumor, I'm sure they'll be happy to put their cards on the table.
- Sam
My forecaster's "sell" order stands. Or, buy puts, your choice. AOL didn't die in a day, either; in fact, it took one of the greatest value dumps of all time, directly upon the heads of Time Warner shareholders. Please, of course I know it's not public, I'm talking Cred Trend Puts. I can't imagine a single reason for the web needing FB by 2012; it was a cute start to socially stuff and MySpace UI cleanup, but the vast majority of The Normals will use it as a Social Registry and virtually never log in again.
- michael silverton
A revenue of $10 per user per year is achievable - advertising + premium vanity features ought to do it.
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
As to longevity, I don't know - i dislike all the fluff in FB, apps and games, but I can see it growing into a living family tree - our parents are joining, our children are joining, and I now have a whole multi generational network including my parents' friends, my friends' parents - you get this whole "village" of real connections if you use it that way, quite warming when like you have moved countries a bit, and the value could grow. A grounding space in a increasingly disconnected and virtual world.
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
@scoble: A lot more than 10$ per user? 1.4+ billion in revenues? Is that whtat we're talking about, or was it just what it worths?
- Martino Sabia
Martini I don't know the numbers. I thought I was being asked the value of each user.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook is becoming pretty common and integrating itself within the non-tech crowd. Is it only a matter of time before they roll out some type of subscription plan? I would be willing to pay monthly (maybe $10) As long as they keep adding new features and keep refining the interface.
- Bob Blunk
there have been stories on FF lately about how poorly ads do on social networking services compared to search advertising. Does anybody have different reports or experiences?
- Davide D'Incau
Doesn't surprise me, more friends of mine are joining it by the day.
- Ed Richardson
incentive ads perform poorly on a CPA basis; conversions occur for the wrong reason and have a high cancellation rate.
- Peter Warnock
It seems to me that FB is more embraceable for low tech people than Twitter
- Craig Mische
It's the apps, after the newness wears offs or the advertisers push back, FB will have to do some real marketing. They have a gold mine of data that they're not using.
- Peter Warnock
@Craig - How in Bob's name is a crazy multi layer, multi threaded, multi page, multi media mess easy for a ludite depression era grandmother to get than a single line where you post 140 characters?
- Matthew DeVries
If Facebook needs to start charging than they've failed at their mission and are leaving way too much money on the table. The power in facebook comes in the fact that they now know what we like, what we hate, who we follow, who we listen to. That is worth so much more to people than the pittance they'd be able to make by charging us a fee at a price we wouldn't run screaming to the hills over. They need to keep it "free" and sell that information to the ad people, the politicians, the entertainers.
- Matthew DeVries
remember sched.org from SXSW? they are now making enough revenue to scoop up a former JPMorgan dude to do biz dev! http://www.readwriteweb.com/jobwire... sweet!
Excellent video and article about how Nike using the sharing of running data and a community site to drive customer engagement and business outcomes. Not to be missed given some other large companies that haven't been as successful doing this.
- Dion Hinchcliffe
It's http://www.xiaonei.com -- it is an exact copy of Facebook. I hear that Facebook messed up by not hosting its servers inside China and not playing the government games.
- Robert Scoble
Seriously Scoble...you are smart. No prize for saying the Chinese versions would be more SPAM laden then the U.S. versions. Asians are extremely ambitious in a new-found capitalistic world after all.
- Adam
weblivz: I don't think I'd get invited to FriendFeed parties anymore. They should bring FF over here, though. It would be popular.
- Robert Scoble
how long til we see 简体中文版's blog? (that is apparently your name in Chinese thanks to babelfish). Seriously - you plan on blogging into that market?
- Steven Livingstone-Pérez
from twhirl
You are smart Robert but please don't move. We want you to stay here.
- John D. Lemke
from twhirl
weblivz: nah, I don't speak the language. I'm here to learn about the market here and build relationships with other bloggers who do cover the market here.
- Robert Scoble
John: don't worry about that. My family wouldn't let me move anyway.
- Robert Scoble
I'll go! Oh, wait, I'm a tech. Oh, and I'd never be able to learn to read Mandarin. Guess I'll just stay here. :(
- MiniMage - HLtW
You'll need multiple trips to understand China. Try to get out and go for a walk on your own, or with someone who can help you find your way back - instead of being guided by handlers constantly(norm). In Shanghai alone, you'll see how small the US is (26MM people I think in Shanghai). Also how independent they are, and that the majority of their growth started after Mao died, also how they're going to control the world economy.
- clarke thomas
clarke: I was here 10 years ago. Very wild changes in 10 years. Americans have no clue how much economic growth is going on here.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Americans for the most part the very insular, we think the USA is large. Plus the # of cities in China over 10MM is unfathomable, considering there isn't 1 in the USA
- clarke thomas
clarke: Shanghai makes New York seem like a country town.
- Robert Scoble
Even smaller cities in China can have 10-15 million people. Love the street food in Shanghai. Hostels there can be $5/day, so many artists have moved from NYC and Paris to Shanghai. On the North side of Nan Jing Dong Lu (east) in the shopping area, there is a 100+ yr-old calligraphy shop. If you go the 2nd floor, they have stuff from lots of great new artists.
- Mitchell Tsai
Don't worry, the FF's clone here in China is not as good enough (Beta version). And Chinese online market is big enough to have 100 friendfeed here. Give it a try before it's late(actually it's never too late in China), that might be a very exciting adventure.
- Gu Qingfeng Tony
Scoble be warned, they might create clone of you too soon =P We Indians are yet to master the art of copying, we restrict ourselves to churning out cheap code =/
- | Balu |
In Bulgaria there are several Facebook clones. They still got nothing.
- Dimitar Vesselinov
Robert: 1st time I came back from China, I arrived in JFK at 5pm (rush hour), It thought it was so quite and relaxed. My only problem is that I begin driving like the Chinese when I come back.
- clarke thomas
awesome!! keep sharing what you're finding if you would
- Patricia
i find China fascinating. If they can clone Gucci, of course they can clone Facebook:-)
- Francine Hardaway
from twhirl
They probably have a dozen Twitter clones already.
- Morton Fox
Francine: they clone things, but miss on the details.
- clarke thomas
Russia has 100% clone of facebook http://vkontakte.ru Has aprox 20 416 000 users and counting. See the real time counter on the site Home page
- Maria Podolyak
China will rip you off in several small ways on your trip. So you can imagine the ripoffs on larger scale enterprises...
- Indio Apache
from twhirl
Also, there're at least 3 FriendFeed clones in Russia.
- Alex Kapranoff
They steal the sites right down to the colors and the fonts. The stultifying propaganda laced education systems in both Russia and China lead beat their citizens down until they have no imagination or creativity. Or maybe its like the old joke: under capitalism, man exploits man... under communism its the other way around!
- Indio Apache
from twhirl
BTW Drugfeed.ru is not actually feeding drugs. Drug is Friend in Russian :)
- Maria Podolyak
"At one point, in 1985, Pixar, losing money fast, was nearly sold to General Motors and Philips Electronics, which wanted its computer-graphics modelling tools to help design cars and transform medical scans into three-dimensional images. Even when Steve Jobs, a co-founder of Apple, came to the rescue, Pixar was still in danger. Its pretence to be a computer company was going badly: sales of the Pixar Image Computer were slow. The only significant way the company was earning money was by making cartoon advertisements to sell other companies' products."
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
I just saw Wall-E last night, and compared to other Pixar movies, was kinda disappointed. In contrast and captioned above, Ratatouille was awesome.
- John Lam
I agree. Wall-E was ok, but not great.
- Sheila Taylor
I think the Pixar movie after Incredibles,like Cars,Rat,Wall-E are not so great,maybe the bar had set by themself is too high to reach.
- Steve Chou
Haven't seen Wall-E yet, but you gotta think that after so many really good films (not just animated films) they are bound to have a 'so-so' flick in there...The Incredibles was the best imo
- Jake Tapia
Monsters Inc., Cars and Ratatouille are my faves. Looking forward to seeing Wall-E when on DVD.
- Kol Tregaskes
jake, I thought the same thing, but Wall-E was great too. I am still waiting for a Pixar flop to let me know we're all fallible.
- Aaron Krug
On the other hand, I think Wall-E was better than the Dark Knight (which was pretty darn good too) ... Cars is the only one I didn't like, but it was still watchable.
- Deepak Singh
Chris is a tech superstar that I listen to deeply. He is excited by Google's moves and lays out the poor execution on the Mozilla side of the fence.
- Robert Scoble
What I missed in the Chrome comic was a mention of browser add-ons like Firefox's. Surfing the web without Adblock Plus is hard to imagine.
- Ole Begemann
or without the delicious add-ons... or the evernote add-on... but at least bookmarklets are (likely?) to still work.
- Justin Long
The comic was aimed squarely at devs. There was little mention of what would make end users choose Chrome over IE.
- Paul Grav
Best read so far, been waiting for a commentary like this...
- Kevin Cearns
Gee, Ole... why wouldn't Google want you running AdBlock Plus? Can't imagine. ;) (Now, I agree, add-ons are cool, but as a publisher, I'm not going to weep over that one...) Anyway, I wouldn't count Firefox out. Obviously, what Google addresses is the performance/reliability side and building around apps. Both FF and Chrome are built around standards, both closely married to JavaScript for what they do next. I think this could be a great rivalry, frankly.
- Peter Kirn
from twhirl
They talk explicitly about plugins on pages 29-32 of the comic so you should be able to have your AdBlock. I seriously doubt Google cares that much about AdBlockers -- which makes up an extremely small percent of the overall market, and which is probably made up of people who don't click ads anyway.
- Chris Messina
Chris: I suspect by plugins they mean Flash etc. and not Firefox-style extensions. But I hope I'm wrong.
- Ole Begemann
Will they, wont they. Time will tell. Who do you want to hate today?
- Steve Blamey
Interesting article. More choice = better for the users. But I think that you are over-hyping the death of Firefox. As far I can tell. Firefox 3.0 is much better than Firefox 2.0 and Firefox 3.1 will be better than Firefox 3.0. Multi-process, V8 and native Gears support are definitely a step forward but firefox is part of an ecosystem so I would not count them out (A lot of people said...
more...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Hmm, well, I didn't claim to foretell the death of Firefox at all. In fact, Firefox will likely continue to gain marketshare and attention (as the web is still expanding). One of my points is that Mozilla missed the opportunity to be the foundation of Chrome -- and will now have to play catch up -- instead of set the agenda for what's next.
- Chris Messina
Do you think that was a technical decision or a control decision. From the last couple of interviews I have seen of John Lilly, I think that he has a really clear vision around performance, usability and ecosystem. Performance is coming in 3.1. Usability is driven by some of the concept Labs has been pushing out and ecosystem come from the fact that there are 100s of extensions to...
more...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
I am using chrome right now, and I really miss my shareaholic addon as well as my stumbleupon bar. hopefully the developers get crackin for plugins for this browser.
- James Campbell
I'm hoping to see some good progress from Mozilla. I do worry a bit about them fish-tailing and not being able to say no to developers (whose needs are often very different from regular folks). We shall see. @James Campbell:There will be a need for web hooks, no doubt... and places to insert additions or modifications to your browser experience -- I don't really doubt that (some standardization there would be nice too).
- Chris Messina
The bookmarklets work just fine. I really wouldn't miss any of my add-ons...but the fact that I can't scroll up with my mouse is a deal breaker. talking about plugins/add-ons/extensions when people can't even scroll up is kinda putting the cart before the horse...just sayin
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
you seem to be some kind of cloud-computing in humanized form, multi-tasking, non-sleeping, re-evaluating demo sites, reading and recommending...nice!
- Gaby K. Slezák
Number eight - latency is interesting because applications with extreme latency sensitivity are one of the things that may stay out of the cloud as they need to be physically near their consumers. IT vendors (the ones that don't decide to compete in the cloud market) are going to have to get used to a world where the big clients are all extremophiles.
- mattpovey
Gaby, thankfully we do not have to pay Scoble by the GB!
- Rob Diana
Matt, I believe some cloud vendors are looking into multiple cloud locations. Meaning, you could have as US cloud, a Europe cloud, an East Asia cloud etc. I could not find the article that talked about it, but I thought I remembered one.
- Rob Diana
Rob. Yeah, you're right - one issue is going to be the question of trans-national privacy and data retention laws. People in Britain would be very wary of having their data shipped to the US for example (if it was even legal). There will still be a need for systems that are sited literally next to their 'users'. Applications such as algorithmic trading in FSI is an example. That said, that is an example of an application that might see 'niche' cloud players emerge for some applications.
- mattpovey
I still remember the Bill Clinton advance team telling me it doesn't matter what the candidate says, it matters how he looks. This is an interesting analysis of the visuals on screen. I thought they were stunningly bad, too.
- Robert Scoble
Those solid Blue & Green screens make him look like he's in a studio, and leaves him wide open for people to drop in other scenes.
- Victor Ryden
I listened to the beginning of McCain's speech on radio (then had to go to a 7:30 meeting), so I didn't see the visuals, but I saw a lot of FriendFeed/Twitter puzzlement.
- Ontario Emperor
It already works with the iPhone .... just browse to bbc.co.uk/mobile/iplayer
- Peter Cattell
You sure, peter? I just tried with my iTouch.
- Roberto Bonini
It will only work in the UK I think but it should work with the iPhone
- John Cooper
@Roberto... absolutely..I have my iPhone here, and tried it again to be sure. I dont know where you are but maybe it will only work in the UK???
- Peter Cattell
The first mobile device that iPlayer supported was the iPhone/iPod Touch back in March - and if you search back then there was a good deal of debate about them having chosen them to support first. Limitations are that it will only allow you to watch TV content over a wi-fi connection, not over 3G, they also don't convert all the programmes over to the iPhone/iPod Touch format. For those outside the UK, TV content on the iPlayer is limited to the UK - most radio can be accessed abroad though.
- Richard Peat
I am in the Uk- Scotand. Anyone have any sucess with the iPod Touch?
- Roberto Bonini
yeah, when you can get the program - it works wonderfully
- Zee.
Ahh Right. Got it working now. Went to bbc.co.uk/iplayer and it redirected me. thanks for all your help guys.
- Roberto Bonini
Works wonderfully. Watching Have I Got News For You. Funny.
- Roberto Bonini
It blew my collegues at work away when I showed them an episode of Top Gear in the office ... the quality is exceptional
- Peter Cattell
Yeah, I was really impressed with the iPod Touch/iPhone version when it first came out. I took a couple of pictures of the quality when I blogged about it back then. http://tinyurl.com/5gqbof Incidentally, a side effect of the way it is implemented with quicktime rather than running in the browser also means that if you have a video cable the iPod Touch/iPhone can show the picture on a normal TV.
- Richard Peat
The quality is unbelivable. Pity we cant buy/rent/save the shows.
- Roberto Bonini
Put iPlayer Downloader into Google...
- Richard Peat
Have your friend check the wow forums. There are definitely threads about that issue.
- ·[▪_▪]·
There is a simple fix, he needs to upgrade to xp.
- Tony Speer
if you right click on the program icon, there are usually some emulation modes, like "run in win 98" style. that was helpful for me when running games on Vista (though i'm back to XP now...)
- Ňicķ
Running vista with 8800gtx and no probs, everything maxed out. Some slowdowns if im watching a dvd and surfing at same time but no video problems
- Greg
they are available for other palmtops but apple has yet to open up the bluetooth support to allow them to connect to iphones. nothing is all perfect and this is the one wart on the iphone to me as well. i abandoned my 17inch laptop to my desk connected to a second monitor permanently and only travel with the iphone now. even around the house i never move the laptop. a bluetooth keyboard craving...........
- Joshua Slocum
This would make a useful demo for new users.
- Anne Bouey
The slide show feature makes the post unreadable.
- Russellreno
Argh, Fast Company should re-name this article "8 Ways We Use The Auto-run Slideshow Feature We Stole from Forbes To Make Money Off Ad Impressions"
- Phil G
I use FriendFeed for the same thing...only one Facebook.
- Rainer Paskiewicz
On #4 it says "All you have to do is give FriendFeed access to your accounts." Fortunately this is not true, but that claim will make many people not want to use FriendFeed if they haven't yet.
- Tanath
actually when they break news, they break news. sleazy, but news breakers.
- jeneane sessum
They were right about Edwards. Remember it was Drudge who had Lewinsky as well, before Newsweek, so the mainstream media doesn't get everything.
- Louis Gray
He-said, she-said won't matter much, I don't think. She'll deny it, story over.
- Russell Beattie
ChiliMac: but why are they on the forefront of this story?
- LPH™ and his dog P™
They seem to be right about a third of the time. They were right on Edwards.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
the story has a ring of truth b/c they say the announcement came after famiy notified the story was going to be published
- R. Ferguson
I love it. Obama consorting with an unrepentant bomber, funneling money and trading favors? No coverage. But if it's about Palin suddenly the left will take the Enquirer as a source? Let me guess, she saw bigfoot and elvis on a UFO?
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
however it is a sad day in when the Natl Inquiry influences a presidential race. Thank you John McCain for this leadership.
- R. Ferguson
How is it McCain's fault? Just because he decided to run? Should Obama run unopposed?
- Gregory Pittman
@LPH: At the forefront of what story? That a daughter told her parents she was pregnant and they fought about it. The National Enquire at best will make a story that is half truth and half lies just to juice it up a little.
- ChiliMac
@Gregory Pittman - to be fair he does prefer it that way, it's how he won his first election (by hiring lawyers to get his democratic opponent thrown off the ballot) :)
- Soulhuntre
gregory that to prove his Maverick status he clearly chose someone with little more consideration than the flip of a coin. I don't care for Romney, Liberman, or the other governor considered. But at least they appeared qualified and unlikely to damage the ticket.
- R. Ferguson
It's amazing how much power is ascribed to Bush and now McCain. Somehow McCain has single handedly destroyed the political process and the entire media debate system in a week or so. Damn, that man is GOOD.
- Soulhuntre
@Soulhuntre, LOL. Ruth, I haven't seen anything about Palin that says she will damage the ticket. There might be stuff out there. I don't know. But I've always preferred facts, not partisan assumptions.
- Gregory Pittman
from twhirl
Ruth, Palin's not damaging the ticket. She's making the Democrats nervous.
- Larry Huffman
Wondering what the Enquirer has. Hope she wasn't doing John Edwards.
- Ontario Emperor
from fftogo
There's a war in her family. Daughter, sister, ex-brother-in-law, mother-in-law. lots of inbred competition going on there.
- Dave Winer
When did the National Enquirer become a credible (news) source? About the same time as Fox News?
- Ian May
strange, link not working for me, and front page says it's under construction/ maintenance
- Duncan Riley
Its been a long time since the media had a really juicy political scandal. She has scandal and DRAMA smell all over her.
- CW™
@Sean McGee - of course that's a pretty standard Obama thing. Someone in his staff or on his team does something trying to make an attack stick and when it fails Obama tries to pretend it wasn't from his team. It's a nice tool but makes him look pretty weak as a leader the more he uses it.
- Soulhuntre
OK, for everyone NOT in North America, the National Enquirer is GEORETARDED. Used Proxify.org or another proxy to view
- Duncan Riley
@Larry Huffman - very nervous indeed. They've tried the idea that a mother shouldn't be considered for high office, they've tried attacking her daughter, they've tried that insane "fake pregnancy" rumor and now they are left saying "hey! she can't be VP - she only has a little more experience than Obama!" - the harder they attack her, the more they endear her to a lot of voters as they look more and more insane.
- Soulhuntre
@Soul, do you mind giving an example of a time when his campaign did something and then he acted like it was not them.
- R. Ferguson
Always get a laugh when repubs talk about facts. They shouldnt' even be allowed to use the word fact. And yes, I'm sure nervous now that they've brilliantly locked down those 3 electoral votes Alaska has...
- Indio Apache
from twhirl
or maybe there are ppl across the country who use the internet and see politicans speak for themselves or their surrogates and supporters use social media to come to their own conclusions. Soul & Sean M, I look forward to your examples.
- R. Ferguson
get over it already, Sarah Palin will be the next VP
- David Ward
@Soulhuntre: "of course that's a pretty standard Obama thing" No one on the McCain team has ever done that, right? No one in any other political campaign, left, right, conservative or liberal has done that, right? You want to be partisan, that's fine, but don't go taking high ground when it's all at sea level.
- AJ Kohn
the National ENQUIRER is sleazy, but once in a while it breaks something factual - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - so let's see... this is turning into a political soap opera. thanks to a stupid vetting.
- ~C4Chaos
Breaking news! Campaigns have meetings to talk about strategy, positions and craft messaging, sometimes packaged for media outlets in bite size formats. Investigative reports have found that they also have speech writers and folks interested in public relations on their team as well. Yes, it's true! Wake me up when the talk on *issues* begins.
- AJ Kohn
@Ruth Ferguson - you are correct, I phrased it badly. Obama acknowledges it was his team or associate, then throws them under a bus by claiming he didn't know what they were doing, what they believed or that they didn't represent his views. This link is a decent starting point with some examples - http://news.yahoo.com/s...
- Soulhuntre
looks like a good use of the web to market the paper version.
- Andrew Warner
The Enquirer became a credible source when they broke and stayed with the John Edwards story. Its a new world. Just because its the Enquirer or Drudge or FriendFeed, new credible sources are everywhere.
- Mark Edwards