Rich Kirkpatrick › Comments

"Rick, I'm not for denying rights--most are not. Marriage is more than an entitlement and is not a governmental institution on the other hand. So, I say let's allow those that desire to fulfill obligations of parenting in particular have rights that protect the raising of kids. But, let's not let the government redefine marriage and turn it into their making. This is dangerous no matter what your view is. It is like the state defining doctrine." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Thanks! This observation means a lot to me as that was my intent with the post." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"oh, indeed! listen to this podcast about this very subject! http://worshipmythbusters.com/..." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"You state well the point that God is the one who will measure, so we should in the end of our life expect God to size us up for what we have done or not done. The church as his bride will be judged. So, how do we measure what God measures? And, how do we do this without blowing apart the sacred institution of his church?" - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Actually, Gungor songs have brought tears and moved people in settings I have employed those songs as well as other non-standard stuff. Church people will move with good leadership, IF there is freedom to not have every song a "hit". But, you are alluding to the "system" worship leaders live in. Yes, Christians do not appreciate "art" but also many worship leaders surely enjoy their paychecks and are not equipped as artists, anyway. I wrote about this a lot "cut and paste creativity" is what I see most churches do from sermons to songs. RK" - Rich Kirkpatrick

"I love the concept album. Artists tell stories. Worship leaders get the crowd to quickly feel positive. I wish worship leaders could be more like "real" artists... "Honesty. Art. And certainly love." --could be a good recipe! Imagine honesty to start with?!?" - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Perhaps creating a space other than the worship center to display art publicly might be an idea--a lobby, a room, or courtyard. If worship is a communal expression, it might be freeing to have a space that has flexibility while providing a space that is more safe and permanent like the worship center itself." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Luke 9:24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Guy, like Rob says below, ministry is a "loss leader"--efficiency is not always the goal, as in business. Our metrics are not always what our culture dictates. Example: It is not efficient to build into young adults rather than placate older members, because they may not give to a church money right away. But, in the Kingdom, we can develop a life-long servant worth more than their financial offering could ever be worth. We should challenge any thinking when it does not match people above our programs, buildings, vision, salaries, etc." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"scorcher? ;)" - Rich Kirkpatrick

"This kind of rhetoric is not helpful. Sorry. Sigh." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Personally, I want you to have all the rights, especially since children could be involved. The state should begin to recognize the nontraditional family so single parents and gay parents are not marginalized legally in any way. Children need that stability and the state while not redefining or defining marriage is needed to recognize not only the rights but public obligation of marriage and unions. However, the state should not redefine OR define marriage. (Sorry to my friends on the left and right). The institution of marriage is something the state did not create--it was here before the state. The state should not make theological and religious mandates about it--in either direction. So, the solution is to get the state out of marriage, perhaps entirely. It would harm our society greatly to allow the state the power to interfere at the most private levels of life and determine religious belief and practice. Ironically, the left machine is as blind as some on the right and thinks..." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Vince, As far as my article is concerned it is not about getting people to play by my rules or my view of God's rules. It is practically living out the tensions between wanting justice for a group of people that should have rights while being honest with my view of traditional marriage. And, I am trying to do so in a way that is respectful and honest. If we are silent, then we let Romney or Obama be our voice. The fallacy in the thinking you mention is that this is all private. Raising kids is not private. Marriage is not private in its entirety. Porn is not private. Porn influences human trafficking. We need to take a stand for justice there. Drugs harm people. We need to speak into the well-being of our society about that. The public square is where we live. And, feeding the poor and being about justice for people is part of our Christian faith. All I am doing is saying lets offer a better choice to respond to people in our society who need us to lead and be loving rather than..." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Great news, except for us left coast people who hoped to hang out...eventually. What a great group to be a part of!" - Rich Kirkpatrick

"We do that by not allowing them to be the only ones at the table." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Separate but equal need not apply here. Women and men are separate, different, yet equal under law. So, to call something "A" and allow under that for people to call it what they want seems plausible. "X" and "Y" already exist and legally equal--just make Civil Unions with full rights. And, bam. We are done. It will get nowhere only if we are fearful of trying to come to the table with more than leftist and right wing rhetoric. This rhetoric is designed to classify, vilify, and marginalize practical solutions that can still respect our traditions and culture while being humane and respectful of the non-traditional. Instead, we want a cultural war of winners and losers." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"All the more reason to have reasoned, grace oriented conversation. The reason many feel the way they do is we are silent while Westboro Baptist speaks for us. Or, we let politicians determine the articulation of our views. Letting the world know we are not monolithic in our views and thoughtful allows us a better platform than not engaging at all. Justice is part what Jesus modeled. We should hope that where it lacks we can work together even with a view that differs." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Indeed you have made the same point. Civil Unions surely can be a new legal term expanded beyond current meaning. Thanks for being part of this conversation." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Yes, Vince and you and I agree with about the political polarizing of this issue. It serves both candidates well to wedge us." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"You make a point I sadly stated as well. We Christians should live better what we believe and speak more humbly in all of this." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"My argument is to simply create a new term, and lend the rights to that new term. We should respect culture and faith and it is inhumane to legislate that on one hand. This way, a truly secular definition that refers to legal rights is in play that can also respect the historical, and cultural freedoms as well. It seems that semantics matter in law, and in faith and a new word could be a solution. Legally changing a religious/cultural word does more than our government should in my opinion." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"The issue then is not to redefine what marriage is, but create something new. In California there surely are more than 1100 laws to drive a car. So, it is not simply an issue of law. It is an issue of culture, faith, and of rearing children and their welfare. This is how this is different than other civil liberties issue in our time." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"" I think the whole conversation is a huge distraction and the Church can only lose by engaging it. " I disagree. I can agree we you if we have it the same way. But, it is time to not be afraid to be open about what we believe and to do so with the right tone and with a bent to not make a loser out of someone else so we can win. Let's diffuse it rather than ignore it." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"The tendency on each side--right or left--is to legislate their view at the expense of the other. This is dangerous." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"One of my points: the state does not determine religious belief. They are on their own to live that out. So, the issue is not about rights for those you mention, it is about forcing a redefinition which is intrusive." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"The right has refused discussion of any kind. Instead, there has been polarizing on both sides. Remember, it is easier to polarize people than synthesize solutions. So, lets buck that trend." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"Emoticons? HA! ;)" - Rich Kirkpatrick

"The altruism of liberty holds water pretty well, and is both a value and a practical boundary." - Rich Kirkpatrick

"You guys are welcome! I just finished a cup of your coffee this morning. How did you know? ;) RK" - Rich Kirkpatrick

"IMO creative art is not the only creativity--business is surely an area people are creative!" - Rich Kirkpatrick