ffsms: (now, released for USA) Send Your FriendFeed Posts via SMS! Sign up, get your PIN and post to FF from your mobile phone. It is FREE! #ffsms Try it now: - http://ffsms.com/
Users from the USA can use our new project "ffsms": ffsms is the first FriendFeed service brings you ability of posting to FriendFeed via SMS. After its pre-release in Turkey, it is available for you! You'll just pay for a standart SMS. Try it now! (Feedback: http://friendfeed.com/ffsms)
- Alp
from Bookmarklet
Nicholas, I'm not sure about it. Most probably in a few weeks, it seems nobody wants to use this in the US, so maybe we will never launch for UK. Even Turkish people are using it a lot but American friends haven't liked it. We included launching for Iran in our plans.
- Alp
I read that as FFS MS rather than FF SMS - I liked mine more ;-)
- Graeme Spice
That's great! Now I'll just wait till they have it in the Netherlands as well - or move to the states, whichever comes first ;)
- James Kuypers
@James I've no idea about how many of FriendFeed users are from Netherlands or other European countries. I think Russia and UK are the at the 1st and 2nd place about FriendFeed usage. Do you have any idea?
- Alp
"Get your mail No more running home every twenty minutes! Instant messaging Now you can finally sort out those pesky last minute date details ("where are you?", "what are you wearing?", "did you mean the coffee shop or the strip club?"), without even coughing up a phone number. Match search Got a day to kill because your car broke down on the way to visit your folks? See who's in the neighborhood! Photos Some people's hair only achieves perfection at that one special moment during their lunch break at the office. Capture that moment on your iPhone camera and upload it from the bathroom. Visitors Keep up to date with who's checking you out. Improve matches Come on. All iPhone owners know the single most valuable service an iPhone provides is time killing during Bio 101. And all OkCupid users know the best thing you can do for your prospective matches is see how you match them. We've brought these two fundamental truths together by giving you a way to answer match questions on your iPhone. Lookup user Want to pull up that profile and clear your date with mom and dad? Try the user search!"
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
from Bookmarklet
OKCupid is a cool site. I met Tyler though it, and my good friends Chris and Jinny met through the site too. Having an iPhone client makes sense for a dating site that tries to play up it's geek cred.
- Sparky
Agree. I have met some rather interesting people on it too - friends so far but in terms of human resource pool it definitely escapes out of the sex-network routine. I'm here: http://www.okcupid.com/profile... - where are you? :)
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
@Irma.Vermaat You have a very filled out profile! omg I definitely have met my match on social media. Feeling much less crazy everyday :)
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
Weird I thought that it was possible to add someone as a friend on okcupid before but clearly that's not the case anymore. Instead I have no choice but give you a five-star rating :)
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
You can't add friends, equivalent over there is to add someone to your favorites ... Added you, just for fun. We apparently match 90% although I'd be more curious about the "7% enemy". Out of curiosity, have you actually met (= irl) any 'ideal husband' material?
- Irma Vermaat
@Irma.Vermaat haha ok I see - you can 'save' someone. I faved you now! I hope that this won't screw up the system and start suggesting women to me! :)
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
Regarding whether or not I've met people in real life from the system, yes. And we are good friends now. I haven't met any ideal husbands yet. Ironically I have better lucks finding husband materials on sites that are not meant for finding love - but I think that may be unique in the gay community.
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
It's all fun and games until your new Windows 7 install doesn't recognize your wireless adapter and you can't find it in your list of devices and you can't remember what it's called so you can go download the right drivers.
Maybe if I drink enough wine and listen to enough Lady Gaga it will come to me.
- Veronica
heh. in those cases popping the case open is usually my first resort. unless the case is a pain and a half to open, in which case i try to remember what i put in it first :)
- Carlos Urrutia
It's in a pain in the ass spot, but I guess I have no choice.
- Veronica
Ok i did this on Video capture card, i didnt have the cd or anything Did you try this for, Go to the Device manager in the CP find the yellow question mark device thats not working, right click it and select update your decivce online, Windows 7 found the drivers for my capture card and installed them automatically.
- Fee501st
did you by any chance make a text file on your drive with what you put in your pc/laptop?
- Carlos Urrutia
I'm running a cable to temporarily fix the issue. a Very long cable.
- Veronica
This your Gaming PC? I'm still on XP on mine
- Fee501st
you know, you just made me realize that the only computing device that I have hooked up to my router via ethernet is my pc, everything else i.e. game consoles, are wireless.
- Carlos Urrutia
using ethernet sharing from the MBP for now to get the drivers, it can't seem to find the drivers for the wireless device.
- Veronica
I guess its time to get screwdriver and flashlight :( or put off if the cable isn't a trip hazard hehe
- Fee501st
I have only 3 PCs on cable because i do alot file transfers between the 3, my gaming PC is wireless N, the rest are laptops
- Fee501st
once i get my laptop tomorrow, that will go between ethernet cable and wireless depending on whether or not i need the extra bandwidth.
- Carlos Urrutia
heh. i got a nice case that uses thumbscrews so its not a pain in the butt to open :)
- Carlos Urrutia
my motto is soon as i put the screws in, something will break!
- Fee501st
V, you might want to put that information that you just acquired on a text file on a thumbdrive or portable game console so that you have it handy next time :)
- Carlos Urrutia
Yea, i think there was TZ daily tip that printed out all your hardware your pc has in it.
- Fee501st
I suppose you tried using any driver detector like RadarSync? Even if not free can give you the intel (sorry, had to read this in Gmail hehe, two words a line aka 80px, can't read all comments)
- ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,
although i say that is kind odd watching yourself telling you something that you forgot, thats some memento shit right there!
- Fee501st
Fee: I'll upload pictures of my laptop tomorrow :) Now, how the hell am I going to copy all that stuff I have on Picassa from my pc to the laptop, hmm.....
- Carlos Urrutia
It will most likely involve ethernet though :) YAY! GIGABIT! :)
- Carlos Urrutia
Well, the install went fine, except I accidentally deleted all my Dragon Age saved games. At least I beat it last night!!
- Veronica
a successful install is always good. too bad about the saves, but at least you managed to beat the game before that. would have sucked if you were just before the final battle and that happened.
- Carlos Urrutia
Even after working perfect for months, one fine day keyboard and mouse on my laptop stopped responding. It was trying time to place desktop devices on laptops and installing the drivers by searching - trial and error.
- Nitin Nanivadekar
Hey Veronica, I was thinking about your lost DAO saves Did you have steam installed on different drive or partition then windows? And install Windows 7? Because you can just click on the steam.exe and all your games will be there, it just resets them, your saves might be in there if you dig around! I did this with HL:EP2 when i went from XP to Vista back to XP, the saves where there i just had to find them and copy them over.
- Fee501st
Nope, steam was installed on the partition that I installed Windows 7 on. And yes, I delete my Windows.old folder as well. La de da!
- Veronica
at least she beat the game before that happened.
- Carlos Urrutia
I made a mistake when i installed Windows 7 also, I though i had everything backup and i hit the format drive, then i forgot to backup my iphone apps dir in itunes! Last week i finnaly got them all downloaded!
- Fee501st
did you end up doing a fresh install of WoW when you installed W7 or did you just copy setting over?
- Carlos Urrutia
"Google has finally released an early version of its new open source operating system Chrome OS. This is a step-by-step guide to running it within Sun VirtualBox, a multi-platform, free virtualization software, making your pleasure all-free! There will be a video version of this how-to as well, so check back for updates."
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
from Bookmarklet
It's a cloud that you own, that exposes "local services" like storage, identity selector config, computation, etc. to services you don't own
- Kurtiss Hare
Does this silverlight porting path just translate video, or the whole framework? If it's just video, it sounds like a WMV->MP4 codec.
- Matt Mastracci
I don't think stream of audio or video via silverlight to a webkit browser counts as a dev platform for iphone
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
has anyone got documentation on sliverlight video playback on iPhone? I didn't see that demo
- Kevin Marks
Kurtiss - where do you own it? On Amazon? Who hosts that data? If someone else is hosting it do you really own it? The client is the best place for the user to own their data. That can be supported by a cloud service, but your client needs to control it.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: that part's up to you, it can run from your house if you're into that. otherwise it can run from your amazon or rackspace account, whatever.
- Kurtiss Hare
Kurtiss, the average user is never going to be able to do that. It has to be something native in the browser or the operating system for the user to get it.
- Jesse Stay
@Kurtiss - your Rackspace account :) Please me more ;)
- Rob La Gesse
Also, a cloud-based service can't provide near the context a desktop client can
- Jesse Stay
Internal enterprise apps are never a predictor of platforms that'll survive. I could list dozens of dead Microsoft products that were "hot" for a while until they were abandoned.
- Matt Mastracci
Jesse, for now, but when the broadband explosion comes....
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen, even then you're never going to have full control so long as you rely on the cloud for full context. See my article above.
- Jesse Stay
"turns out, microsoft developed the killer app for chrome os" - office web apps
- Jamie
enterprise == large user count behind a firewall with a private network
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jesse: What's the difference between the way that Windows/Mac OS X exposes my local services and the way a "personal cloud"-based OS could? It's Chrome OS' destiny ;)
- Kurtiss Hare
I've just finished installing SharePoint 2010 and now installing the Office Web Apps so I'll let you know shortly.
- Paul Shadwell
Robert, make sure you get that enterprise lecture from Steve before going on about Chatter
- Ross Mayfield
if chrome os enables a personal VPN experience that I can then allow individuals to "peek into" that would be a huge win
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Kurtiss, a personal cloud is never going to know what you're doing on Barnes and Noble vs. Borders.com at the same time. Please read my article above.
- Jesse Stay
Paul: NO. Office for Web is ALL JavaScript.
- Robert Scoble
"very loyal to office" == it's a huge pain and cost to translate all those proprietary docs to something else
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jesse, cloud based services can bring context using social web - bring context in form you contacts and activities
- Kevin Marks
Kevin, only to an extent. You still need the client to control that process.
- Jesse Stay
Kevin, I saw the demo but haven't the docs for it. Just passes the video off directly to the vid player on iPhone. Here is the demo URL http://www.iis.net/iphone
- Jerry Schuman
Robert: Do you think they did that for increased cross browser support?
- Paul Shadwell
many companies are just scared to move to the web It seems an insecure place to them and they take the IT guys (who get paid to manage Exchange) word for it. "You don't want to do that. It's insecure." Few CEOs outside our business will challenge talk like that.
- Matt Terenzio
I truly love that indictment. LOL...it's only Obama, Congress has not a damn thing to do with it.
- Karoli
I have multiple clients that draw on my twitter, Poco and other cloud contexts. phones, laptops desktops use them
- Kevin Marks
yea, like obama has control over the senate and house or the huge military infrastructure that bush had 8 years to setup
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Microsoft won't stop innovating, but they'll be innovating in the wrong direction (closed platforms, etc.)
- Matt Mastracci
Jason sounds like Ehrlich's genocidal nonsense, not any Libertarians I know
- Kevin Marks
when all the normal workers - not those that are like most silicon valley startup wonks - can stop worrying about where the money for the next health bill comes from, then they will be able to spend time making work more productive
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Tim O'Reilly talks about Microsoft being a major player in the open web...
- Cliff Gerrish
Kevin, did you get the URL for the IIS demo?
- Jerry Schuman
Microsoft innovates but it's not accessible to the murmuring rabble. Like me. at least, not yet (other than Silverlight)
- Karoli
Microsoft is the greatest squandering of wealth in the History of business
- Stephen Pickering
Microsoft is a leader in the Information card space, and they're doing some amazing stuff with .Net, etc
- Jesse Stay
(note that I write this from a *nix-based MacBook Pro)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: see Craig Burton's rant on MSFT's implementation of cardspace.
- Cliff Gerrish
Microsoft is the new Newspaper business
- Matt Terenzio
and how is Salesforce managing this change in direction and focus... open source and open protocols I suspect
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Client wars have been going on for 2 decades.. it doesn't matter. You will have multiple native and web based clients from now until the cows come home.
- Jerry Schuman
warlords of tech, each guarding their own fiefdom.
- Karoli
The apathy of the user community regarding clients was evidenced by the failure of "Write Once, Run Everywhere"
- Jerry Schuman
I think you just hit the nail on the head bear :-)
- Paul Shadwell
Robert it already exists.. DOM manipulations
- Jerry Schuman
Jerry: DOM Manipulations + Action Cards gets you there.
- Cliff Gerrish
the major change comes with context awareness. We're almost there.. very close in my estimation.
- Jerry Schuman
Jerry: Action Cards are all about contextual browsing.
- Cliff Gerrish
There are no generic enclosures is what I think Dave meant
- Matt Terenzio
meta data is data - it can be included with other meta data or consumed as is. what is key is removing the silo mentality -- open data api's to allow neutral use cases
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Twitter's 'features' have been a massive user #fail
- Karoli
twitter has always been a feature to be included in other apps -- they *are* a pipe
- Karoli
yes, they have rolled out a number of new features but they still have fundamental stability issues when followers drop off your account, when api calls still return random errors and other quality of life issues
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
btw: all those things you just mentioned extended Twitters discrete extensions of the backend. You're seeing twitter manipulate and compartmentalize their schema
- Jerry Schuman
bear, not only that, but they're anti-community. by sending that message, they tell me they intend to be a pipe for my data, not a host.
- Karoli
i've become so accustomed to their slowness of innovation, i certainly don't take the recently developed features for granted like I did when G or FF innovates...sad, really.
- Kurtiss Hare
still looking for those 'features'. closing conversations, making retweets a metric, and adding lists...?
- Karoli
While I might agree with ppl discounted MS I think discounting Ray Ozzie is a HUGE mistake. Especially if Ballmer gets forced out of MS.
- Rob La Gesse
it's all DATA SOUP. Apple had it right with the Newton ;-)
- Jerry Schuman
Authoritative ecosystems of record will still rule the day.
- Cliff Gerrish
don't mind shorter shows if they are focused. except for the "into the ditch" diversion of the political discussion this was a nice tightly focused show
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
SocialText...unfortunate name. Brings to mind the "journal" that was punked by Alan Sokal.
- Christopher A Carr
Kynetx launch of their developer platform. Seriously - you really need to look at what they're doing. It's the biggest thing I've seen since the Facebook platform launch.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: I'm looking, I just don't get it. Their marketing really is sub-par and all your hype doesn't explain WHY it is important. Facebook was INSTANTLY recognizable as important.
- Robert Scoble
Kynetx is important because Scoble doesn't understand it. This is a big plus.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: it took me 1.5 years to get RSS. But the thing is I still got it before most of you did. I will figure out Kynetx, but the marketing on its site really doesn't do a revolution justice, if Jesse is right.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I'll do several more blog posts about it. It will take some examples to truly show its power.
- Jesse Stay
I agree they need to improve their marketing though
- Jesse Stay
Robert: if you hated SideWiki; you'll really hate Selectors + Kynetx. But, you should start by reading Craig Burton. The evolution from Cookies to Selectors is the key.
- Cliff Gerrish
Craig's a really smart dude - I finally got to meet him this last week and boy was I impressed.
- Jesse Stay
Agree with Gigi. Don't take my words just because I work for Microsoft Italy, but my question is fair I suppose. What I do with a Google Chrome OS Netbook when I do not have any kind of connectivity, for instance? For example, Italy still does not have free wifi anywhere and the rates for a GPRS/UMTS connectivity are still high in comparison to the data you want to use with them. It will be a very interesting competitive scenario soon...
- Andrea Contino
@Andrea then Google Chrome OS is not an option for you. not a big deal. Google's OS market will be anywhere which has the most important requirement for this OS which is a low price high-speed internet
- Mohamadreza
Basically entertainment and socialization is moving online. Portable devices being able to access those services is what Google is focusing on. They want to be the eco-vehicle that gets you to those things. MS, Mac, Linux can do the same, but how much overhead is there since you can do more with them then just internet activities. Its a different world they are choosing to be part of....
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- Uncle CW™
Google OS is for North America primarily. Europe and a bunch of other areas don't have ubiquitous Internet like the US. So we're talking about a fairly confined market here anyway.
- Frank Jonen
Google OS is for the Internet, and the Internet is for the whole world.
- l'Ego di Gigi
@Mohamadreza Not a big deal for me. Try to share some photos from a camera with a friend with a Chrome OS netbook without the Internet :-) That all I ment
- Andrea Contino
ChromeOS is for my mum (and for me). I can buy her this laptop, get her to plug it in and outside of hardware, my 'free tech support' ends. The root is in read only and all her stuff is on the cloud. If there is a problem, hit restart and everything goes back to normal.
- Johnny Worthington
"Why take a $1,000 computer to class? Couldn’t he do everything he needs to do on a low-cost computer" my 12 yr old kid has his Acer Aspire One, running Windows XP, definately not $1,000, good enough for web surfing, pulling up the web version of his math schoolbook, playing Mousehunt
- Tim Jones
@Andrea Contino that's exactly what I mean. I second @Frank about the fairly confined market. this OS has no place in my and your room while we do not have the bandwidth it needs :-) and even my designer would not use it. we should not blame google for this issue. this OS is designed for the internet, not to be compared with PC or Mac
- Mohamadreza
Chrome OS is everything at Google: nothing fancy but it works. And it works damn well. And I'm a long time apple fan an journalist.
- Federico Bolsoman
Right now I really, really want to convert my little netbook to Chrome, just to see how well it gets along with my Droid. They could bluetooth together and do Googly things, it would be beautiful.
- (dot)lizard kelly
Um, no. Unless companies can come out w/ sub $100 laptops (where's the profit in THAT!?!), I don't see Chrome OS being useful to nyone. I mean, if you have to spend ~$200 at least for a netbook, why not shell out another $100 or $200 for a low end notebook? Plus, even if you want a netbook for $200, Windows comes on it...so why switch to Chrome OS? No incentive.
- Scott Carmichael
Scott... That assumes that the Windows OS is free to the manufacturer. What percentage of the build costs go to the purchase of the OEM version?
- Johnny Worthington
Also, Microsoft are reported to be restricting the hardware that the Windows 7 Netbook edition can be installed on. Particularly processor speed and memory. No news yet on if that applies to ChromeOS
- Johnny Worthington
Chrome OS is clearly overhyped. There will be no $100 netbooks - at least $200 (youtube or vimeo hd don't run on ultracheap cpu's). And just a $100 difference between a limited Chrome netbook and a fully capable Win machine will cause most people choose the latter. Remember all those Linux netbooks - return rate was sky-high, so manufacturers moved back to WinXP. And those Linux...
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- Kirill Petrovsky
from fftogo
I figured it out -- Chrome OS is going to run on something like Crunchpad and its competitors (in the future maybe whenever hardware like that is available). I am guessing the market is limited though. Scoble will want one -- but he has one of everything .
- Brian Sullivan
Today I have tried ChromeOS on my EeePC....... I could survive without.
- l'Ego di Gigi
Actually, reading the comments to the Chrome-related posts, I noticed one idea people like, and which no one is against. That's a remote cloud desktop, with infinite firepower, replacing their desktop PCs. And ubiquitous access from any web-enabled device - at home and on the go. Now, who is working on that kind of technology... oh, it's Windows Azure for serving power and "3 screens and the cloud" concept for end-users.
- Kirill Petrovsky
from fftogo
Scott: Google makes billions of dollars WITHOUT SELLING ONE LAPTOP! How the hell? Hint: Google will make a LOT of money from $100 devices.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: The ONLY way Google will be able to monetize this is if ads start appearing in the OS and/or web apps. In that case, it DEFINITELY will fail instantly. WHY? Let's not forget all those ad-filled PCs of the 90s where you got the computer for "free" but were bombarded by ads 24/7. Plus, have you done a parts cost analysis on a $100 device? Get back to me when you have.
- Scott Carmichael
Google OS hasn't won anything except false hype. People aren't going to go out in droves to buy $100 sub-devices when just a bit more money can get you a full-fledged PC.
- Spencer
Besides I predict no such device capable of internet access is going to priced at $100 ever. Prices of hardware are coming down but not that much. In fact I predict that no such device will cost $100 to build -- ever.
- Brian Sullivan
The ChumbyOne is priced at $100 in the Chumby store right now: https://store.chumby.com/ Not the same device, of course, but not that different.
- Ken Kennedy
I'd gladly order one of those if they were available in Canada. I believe Chris Pirillo did a review recently, and it looked quite good.
- Kittyburgers
Brian, you are absolutely right. Even Nintendo & Sony's portable gaming devices are so cheap because they can (and do) subsidize hardware costs with the knowledge more profit will be made from software sales. So unless Google will be charging for web apps, I don't see hardware nowadays being that cheap, EVER, except maybe in 3rd world countries.
- Scott Carmichael
Google OS is all together interesting 2 use together w/other OS, but 2 use as lone nay, I would not
- polou/indigo_bow
"The biggest component is the question - what is the value of Facebook? It is a very successful company and is going to get more so in the future. There is a lot of opportunity in the social and realtime. Facebook is in a unique position that will prove to be very lucrative."
- Louis Gray
Nothing wrong with pursuing the Benjamins -- that's what creative capitalism is all about. Friendfeed's founders probably couldn't have picked a better moment to sell the company for the price it did.
- Sean McBride
I still want it to stay right here .... Period.
- Charlie Anzman
Hmmmm, if we assume there is a golden handcuff situation going on, how long until Paul departs and uses the funds to build FriendFeedHD XL Ultimate Edition?
- EricaJoy
I like where you're going with this, Erica!
- Laura Norvig
Good to see that blocking the list maker removes you from the list. Should still be able to opt out of lists
- Mark Trapp
Yes, I'm sure. Blocking completely removes you from the list. Mark: you can opt out of lists. Just block the lists people put you on.
- Robert Scoble
FTR I wasn't attacking them. That link comes from Mark Trapp. It's an interesting conversation though. Also cool that you can block a list and take yourself out of it.
- Jesse Stay
Robert, you can't block lists. You can block people who created lists, which by extension, removes you from the list. That doesn't help people who want to opt out of a list but not block the list creator; I point this out in my post about not wanting to be in technology lists for example. Beyond that, the core issue is that Twitter is now allowing other users to modify your profile...
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- Mark Trapp
I also don't understand why it's lame - Mark has some valid points.
- Jesse Stay
FWIW Facebook has this with photo tagging - Twitter should do something similar. If you're "tagged" in a photo or video, you can immediately remove the tag. You can also set privacy preferences as to who can see tagged photos/videos of you (based on list).
- Jesse Stay
That's really all that's required, Jesse: I think it's a simple security/privacy consideration that shouldn't change the functionality of lists. Right now, however, the functionality makes a privacy assumption that doesn't exist anywhere else in Twitter, and people ought to know that or Twitter needs to fix it.
- Mark Trapp
And thus begins privacy controls in Twitter, and thus starts Twitter's journey towards competing with Facebook. :-)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse - have the battle with privacy is not the automated control you put in but the Human Element. If you are that concerned about privacy control it yourself
- Rob Cairns
Rob, I'm not sure where I said anything about automation
- Jesse Stay
Mark, I'm not really seeing your argument here, it sounds a bit paranoid. If someone puts you on a benign list you don't want to be on for some reason, just contact the list creator. If they fail to comply with a polite request, they are NOT your friend and you just block them. Why would you feel the need to still follow them? If someone puts you on a malevolent list of some sort...
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- Alex Schleber
BTW, I just scoured Scoble's first few hundred "listed" entries (of his current 1400+), and the most egregious terms I could find were "echochamber", "tech freak", and "scobleitis" :) Hardly slander/libel material. And you know someone out there isn't big on Robert, but I doubt they will bother to add him to a negative list. They just blocked him early on...
- Alex Schleber
Mark: have you even tried this? Steve Gillmor and I have. If I block a list's owner it removes me from all of his lists.
- Robert Scoble
which I have. he's so blocked. Check Tech Pundits. I'm not there.
- Steve Gillmor
Robert: you said repeatedly you can block a list. I said you can't: you can only block a list creator, which subsequently blocks any list they created. Now you're saying the exact same thing I said. There's a difference I don't think you're picking up on: I want to be able to remove myself from lists, not block people. If I have a friend who's decided to categorize me as "technology" and I don't want to be in that list, my only recourse is to block my friend. That's not ideal at all.
- Mark Trapp
On top of the fact that blocking is reactive, not preventative. I have to realize I'm in a list before I can take action to remove myself from it. I don't want to be part of any technology related lists, yet I have to wait until someone tags me as such before I can block that person to remove myself from it. Why aren't lists opt-in, especially considering the list memberships show up on my profile? I have no control over a major part of my profile, which is unlike any other part of Twitter.
- Mark Trapp
At the very least, list shouldn't be part of my profile (since I can't control, directly, what lists I'm apart of) and I should be able to remove myself from a list without blocking the list creator. I don't see how that's unreasonable or the argument against having those two pieces of functionality.
- Mark Trapp
One of the bigger problems I have with sites like Facebook is that I have no control over how others see my public profile (right now you'll prob see 16+ yr old girls asking you to contact them, surrounding my profile. I'm happily married, have 4 kids. Mark has a point. It's hard to maintain a personal brand on the web, and others that can classify you (wrongly) won't help. Then again Twitter is 90% bots so I don't think many will notice
- Alexander van Elsas
Alexander: actually Twitter isn't 90% bots. Just 50%. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Alexander, have you tried privacy settings in Facebook? That's why you use Facebook - it gives you that control. (I thought this conversation was about Twitter) (confused)
- Jesse Stay
Robert, I'm suspecting you are a bot too. Can we do a turing test right now to see :-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Jesse, I tried. But I couldn't find that switch that protected me from Facebook themselves. So I gave up.
- Alexander van Elsas
Alexander: I'm a bot with awesome voice recognition. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Alexander - protected you from Facebook themselves? It's called your own blog. :-)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I just looked you up on Facebook. I saw a "buy this cheap house now, color your picture into a cartoon, and a dental advertisement. What does that say about you? Are you a cheap cartoon real-estate dentist, or are you a cool web 2.0 dude?
- Alexander van Elsas
The thing is Jesse, you can set settings any way you want, but Facebook has an advertisement based model. So they'll display ads, usually incredibly badly targeted, next to your profile. And there is nothing that prevents them from doing that. If I use Facebook to connect to people I care about, then I do not want to be associated with badly targeted ads (or any ads for that matter)
- Alexander van Elsas
BTW, it took me 2 screen refreshes to see a beautiful, but way too young girl next to your profile ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Alexander, not sure that has anything to do with Twitter or Facebook then - the only place you're completely safe from that stuff is your own blog. BTW, click on the profile - of course you're going to see non-related info next to my name in a search.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, don't agree. Facebook is for connecting with friends (or business partners). Important in your social interactions. So if Facebook serves badly targeted ads next to your profile it sucks. Especially on the search page, which is the most likely place people that are looking for you will find you! Their business model makes this happen. And their privacy settings only relate to your privacy towards other users, not towards Facebook. They own it all. Sorry for the hijack, will stop now.
- Alexander van Elsas
Still not sure what you're arguing Alexander. I've never had trouble finding close friends and family. Your results will get much more accurate when those friends are already friends of other friends of yours, which is usually the case of how I find people on Facebook. If not, just Google them - those profiles are indexable for at least their names.
- Jesse Stay
Alexander, I agree. It seems to me that there are targeted ads (some I find really offensive as if they think they know what I want) but then there are also ads that are random: they are going to always go for the wide net with those.
- Melanie Reed
Jesse, my point is that if someone searches and finds me on Facebook, Facebook will display ads on the search result page next to my profile. Those ads tend to be badly targeted. Let's say an old friend, business partner, or recruiter is looking for me and sees those ads of 16 yr old girls looking for some action next to my profile, what does that make them think about me?
- Alexander van Elsas
That there are badly-placed ads just like everywhere else on Facebook next to your profile. What does this have to do with removing yourself from Twitter lists?
- Jesse Stay
I mentioned it because I think I understand why Mark Trapp is questioning the way lists have been implemented on Twitter. It is a similar issue I think. If they incorrectly categorize or misplace me ('real-estate-heroes'), it affects how others will perceive me. (Hope I'm right Mark :-) )
- Alexander van Elsas
Alexander I don't see the relation in that case - you can't remove yourself from Twitter search either so long as you have a Twitter account, and you can bet that will have ads in the very near future. What about Google, that places ads around your content? That's just the price for being on the web. What Mark's talking about is the actions of other users - how can I remove myself from a list some other user has placed me in? What you're talking about is a much bigger problem of the web as a whole.
- Jesse Stay
Not looking to be right or wrong, just mentioned it. But hey, I haven't seen this much discussion action on FF in a while :-)
- Alexander van Elsas
I'm talking about both things: someone else shouldn't be able to dictate, by implication or otherwise, how I'm perceived on my own profile. People can @ me, or say, on their own Twitter stream, that I'm a dick, or a puppy killer, or whatever, but that's attached to them, not to my profile. The way Twitter lists are implemented, they're attached to me rather than the person making the...
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- Mark Trapp
Mark I don't see how that has anything to do with search though (re: both things)
- Jesse Stay
Alex said I was questioning the way lists have been implemented on Twitter, that if someone incorrectly categorizes me, it affects how people perceive me. You said that I'm talking about the actions of other users, and how can I remove myself from a list a user has placed me in. Both things are under the domain of my argument. I don't really care about search, unless, as Alex is suggesting, things I didn't consent to are being attached to my profile in a search result.
- Mark Trapp
Mark, the latter is just a part of being on the web. Don't open an internet browser if you don't want that. You can't control that on Twitter or Facebook or Google or even your own site (assuming you allow ads) for that matter. It's crazy to think anyone can control how they show up in a search result in relation to ads.
- Jesse Stay
Mark: you are wrong and the era of control is over (Steve Gillmor tells me that every show). Personally this is freaking awesome that you can see how people perceive me. And I can see it too. If I don't like how people are perceiving me, I can block them or I can contact them and try to change how they perceive me. But so far I've been looking at thousands of people and this system is REMARKABLY accurate.
- Robert Scoble
Jesse: which is why I don't care about search, and it isn't part of my argument. Alex is making a stronger connection between the ads served and my profile, and if he's correct, then there's a problem. But I'm fine with him, not me, tackling that problem: I think the Twitter list implementation is problematic even without considering search implications.
- Mark Trapp
Hey Robert, Just looked you up on Facebook and I saw a pretty sleezy looking girl next to you. Facebook decided to do that. You may not mind, but I think it sucks within the context of Facebook and what it should stand for (connecting friends). Facebook could easily decide not to present that advertisement, but they don't. And with that, they affect our personal brand. Jesse. Don't...
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- Alexander van Elsas
Robert: there's nothing particular about the Twitter list implementation that ensures that they are being used for actual perception, and not for other uses (I outlined two: spam and maliciousness). Very basic functionality could be added to lists to mitigate those, non legitimate, uses without changing the core functionality. For instance, your use case you just described, being able to see how others perceive you, does not require lists being public or attached to your profile.
- Mark Trapp
Alexander your argument is ridiculous and I'm just going to leave it at that - this is getting repetitive. I see Robert's side of this on the lists - personally, it doesn't matter to me too much. In the end I could just report it to Twitter, but I always have the option of blocking. IMO if the individual isn't willing to remove me from one of their lists after respectfully asking them they deserve to be blocked. They're jerks anyway.
- Jesse Stay
Mark: actually, having them attached to your profile and public means I can learn about how others view YOU. This is ABSOLUTELY HUGE in networking. But, yes, I can see why it would freak you out. You better be nice to all of us or else we'll put you on the nasty list. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Jesse, 'your argument is ridiculous' is a good way of shutting me up. I won't say another word
- Alexander van Elsas
@Robert: You said at #140Conf that Lists aren't spammable. I say they will be. What if scumbag spammers create multiple accounts and add all their usernames to various lists? So, your search for "pilots" could be yield a bunch of phony lists with fake pilots. You could eventually go through the trouble of blocking all those users to kill the lists, but a big waste of time for you. Others could be fooled.
- Bryan Person
@vanelsas you are forgetting that Facebook is targeting those ads AT YOU. They primarily go by YOUR demographics and profile keywords from what I understand. Either way, people understand that ads are not the responsibility of the profile owner (most of them get completely ignored anyway). I really don't get your and Mark's fears about this stuff. Seems overblown. So what if someone says something you don't like about or near you? It's called life...deal with it.
- Alex Schleber
Like anything, lists need to be taken with grain of salt. Most will be ego boosts and people trying to chum one another. I don't think lists will be a "game changer". Too subjective.
- Kasey Skala
This is why lists is in beta, to work out the kinks and I'm sure if it becomes an issue, Twitter will add the ability to opt-out. Perhaps instead of opting out it would be better to use an opt-in format. If someone adds my name to a list I get a DM from Twitter asking me if I want to be on it and if I don't reply in the affirmative I'm not added to the list.
- Hugh Briss
Having to block a person to come off their list is like having to report a newsletter as spam rather than simply unsubscribing. Not to mention it raises flags with Twitter's abuse people when someone is blocked by several people.
- Rooker