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Rob Greenlee › Comments
The Streaming Content Is There, Just Not Enough People Watching It — Yet - http://gigaom.com/2009...
Rob Greenlee and Andrei M. Marinescu liked this
But despite all these new offerings, that content still only reaches a few million customers, a number largely unchanged from this time last year. Such low adoption rates in the face of so much effort leads me to think that while the market of delivering content to the TV will grow, it is unlikely to do so at the rate that many in this industry would like to believe. In fact I don’t think we’ll see these devices having a combined impact in any measurable way for at least another 3-4 years.
- Todd Mundt
The adoption curve on online digital media is happening much slower then we all would like, but it is building and will just take time. The time it takes will be generational and based on how it is improved to fit with the slower evolution of the audience understanding of why it is of value and how it works.
- Rob Greenlee
@arrington Mike and Rob should compare Twitter search to friendfeed.
Jannifer @wordsforliving, Ho John Lee, Rob Michael (Atmos Trio) and 20 other people liked this
FriendFeed search is great as well... searching new conversations is cool. We have been on FriendFeed and Twitter for a long time now. I do love the conversations enabled on FriendFeed vs not so much on Twitter. As this post has done - you can create a conversation on Twitter.
- Rob Greenlee
I do like the longer posts and comments allowed on FriendFeed - more keywords for search.
- Rob Greenlee
Rob: Twitter search is really messed up right now too. See Louis Gray's blog.
- Robert Scoble
the conversations in FF add credibility to the posts and I find myself clicking thru to more interesting links that are not poorly hidden spam attempts (twitter?). It would be interesting to know how this effects web site stats. I know that I click away quickly from many Twitter links, but almost always find the links from FFers engaging...Is it the quality of the follow or simply that the comments encourage us to look at a higher quality of link, community quality control.
- Jamie Ginsberg
If you're getting spam on Twitter, you're following the wrong people - or, at least, too many people. I follow 300 people on Twitter, most of whom I know. They don't spam me. My community IS my filter.
- Ian Betteridge
Ian for the one thousandth time you are absolutely wrong. Who you are following in Twitter has NO IMPACT on either trending topics or Twitter search. THAT is where I see spam. Compare to friendfeed where if you block someone they are removed from search as well. No spam or at least I CAN remove it. If you are going to defend Twitter at least have a clue what you are talking about. Notice the word "search" above?
- Robert Scoble
Robert Scoble: You're being a little harsh on Ian, don't you think? Frankly, I am surprised at how ad hominem you're being. Normally you are such a positive and supportive guy. Just my two cents. By the way, Twitter search as currently constituted is a complete bucket of FAIL in my opinion.
- Kevin
Wow Is that Robert losing his cool on FF? But he still rulz! Also I agree that twitter search and the trending topics thing are a complete FAIL right now. I have used people browser and twitterfall with some success, in case someone really needs to search twitter for their job or anything else.
- Freddie Benjamin
Robert is right, your Friend Feed blocks also are blocked from future search. It is a spam firewall. Unfortunately you will need to manually block but if someone wrote a program to add your "Potential blocked" people into a folder based on your past blocks it would be great. Then once a week you can just open the folder and Bang, Bang, Bang....and keep some that you give a 2nd chance,
- Chad Harris
Kevin I am sorry but I am tired of seeing the same idiocy here over and over and I am losing it. Be factual or stay quiet.
- Robert Scoble
Chad: on friendfeed you can constrain searches to just people you are follow in a list.
- Robert Scoble
The two searches I find most valuable are Friendfeed (option of where to search) and Linkedin (very quick autosuggest) I don't hesitate to use them. On twitter, I have to filter search results with my mind, and do multiple types of searches to find the one thing I'm looking for.
- SolidSmack
Robert, Thanks I understand, but I am talking about a new feature needed. A folder of your followers that get dumped into a"Block" bull pen based on your past blocks. Like spam filter but you manually decide to dump once a week. Does this exist now am I missing something?
- Chad Harris
maybe im old school but where I search depends on what Im searching for. if crowd sorcing type of search I will use FF and twitter, since I use tweetdeck it is pretty easy to work my way thru the useless tweets and find what im looking for.
- Terry Bruce
from email
Chad: ahh, I get what you're after, no, that doesn't exist and will be very difficult to do. Spammers are, by nature, pretty good at getting around automated blocks. It's far better than we all use our brains, which are far better at seeing patterns than any super computer, and just manually block. Personally I am really digging the additive searches and filters (I am building groups of...
more...
- Robert Scoble
Robert: That would be a cool name for the tag "Reputation filter" it might say "Chad has checked Rep filter on your account, keep sending high value content" Then newer people would know that they need to be careful. A can see a lot of Twitter spammers just don't know any better. I had an employee one time get us blacklisted on Yahoo because he was such a noob! We fixed the problem but it comes down to education.
- Chad Harris
Robert, two things. First of all, if you're going to start calling people out over "being factually accurate" I'd suggest you take a look at your own record over time first. Second, you're missing the point of Twitter. Twitter became useless to you because you decided to subscribe to everyone, rather than trusted sources of info - hence your absolute need to use Search and trending...
more...
- Ian Betteridge
@Ian - rather unfair to try and pin Robert to the "point" of Twitter given the service's continued evolution. It's no longer just a way to SMS your buddies when AFK, which is where it appears to have started.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
@greggscott you'll soon get why I'm so hawkish on FriendFeed. Twitter sucks for conversations.
Mike Reynolds, Adewale Oshineye, Tanath and 19 other people liked this
Robert: No question about it. With Friendfeed's direct posting I'm spending a lot more time here. Won't be long before a lot more folks arrive methinks.
- Dion Hinchcliffe
from twhirl
I am spending much more time at and contributing more to the discussion at FriendFeed
- Rob Greenlee
Yes, it does. But I'm curious what you like about Friendfeed over Jaiku or Pownce? Actually, I think Jaiku is most like Friendfeed.
- Cheryl Jones
it sucks for in depth, threaded conversations, but don't overlook the fact that Twitter has enabled a lot of new conversations where they didn't exist before.
- Duncan Riley
from twhirl
I too would like to know why Jaiku hasn't had mass adoption, given that it has threaded conversations. Well, there is of course the problem that it is by invite only.
- Morton Fox
re: Jaiku. Maybe Google bought the wrong company?
- Thomas Hawk
Well Jaiku invites are very easy to get hold of: http://jaikuinvites.com/need-an... Would anyone who is currently on FF/Twitter be more likely to join Jaiku if it had open sign-ups? Or is there something else missing?
- Adewale Oshineye
I was on Jaiku since the very early days. I never took to it. I didn't like the UI. I didn't like the community. It also was too early back when we were all discovering Twitter and Facebook. Now the early adopters have those things all figured out and are ready to try something else along with Twitter and Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
I miss when it was simpler and all we had to follow were blogs.
- Steve Rubel
And don't you think Jaiku is much slower at picking up your twits, and not so reliable?! I think that's the reason why jaiku is not popular!
- Philippe
Although, it is an excellent place to start a conversation to continue in FF. :)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
I prefer twitter for posts, but rely on friendfeed to show them. Why post on FF alone, when you can kill two birds?
- InsaneNinja
If I remember correctly, you have to click on a "Comments" link in Jaiku to get into the conversation....on FriendFeed, you can see right away where the action is....no clicking on links. I give the advantage to FriendFeed there.
- Chris Rossini
With Twhirl, I no longer need to rey on Twitter as much. I follow a lot of people to network or keep up to date with the industry - friendfeed on twhirl does that 100 times better
- Elias Bizannes
from twhirl
Twitter is a lot like the chatter you hear at a cocktail party on the way to the bar, where FriendFeed is like stopping along the way to participate.
- jcunwired
Without a doubt. Half the time I forget to read replies on Twitter. Threaded is so much better.
- Sean Alexander
twhirl feature request - ability to increase friendfeed conversation font size
- Boris Gordon
from twhirl
I like to start the topic from Twitter; easy to text from phone. Then this becomes my FaceBook status and threads can develop in FriendFeed. This works better for low traffic posters--LLiu said his FB friends got sick of all the status updates from Twitter. BTW Gordon, Alert Thingy is more readable than Twhirl (and merges into one window).
- Mark Arend
from Alert Thingy
I tried AlertThingy, but I didn't understand the twitter part. I must have been tired last night...
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
from twhirl
AlertThingy is OK except it doesn't push old tweets/friendfeeds wth new comments to the top like twhirl does.
- Boris Gordon
from twhirl
@scoble I have an idea for a good FriendFeed article, and how it emphasizes "name share".. not fully developed yet. would like your thoughts.
- Phil G
Boris Gordon: Seems to work like that on mine
- Stephen B
from Alert Thingy
Stephen B: it might push them above other friendfeed items but not above tweets it seems.
- Boris Gordon
from twhirl
That said, I don't like the fact that there is not a bookmarklet version which allows me to add a thought without forcing me to put a link too
- Anand Sharma
I would like better filtering in FriendFeed, and the ability to sort comments, other than that, I'm happy here.
- jcunwired
Is long-tail blogging on the decline? I am not saying blogging is declining, but is it being taken over by pro bloggers now?
Hutch Carpenter, Todd Jordan, Raphael, Raphael and 2 other people liked this
Long-tail blogging is doing just fine here on Twitter and FriendFeed, thank you very much!
- Robert Scoble
yup
- Rob Greenlee
the new mass media. this cycle just repeats over and over and over in life. hence, we don't need to fret over the hot shiny thing of the moment... check back in a couple years, see what sticks what doesn't, what's irrelevant. Twitter is starting to feel myspacey (prior to the myspace connect stuff)...and i have a form of the early adopter ADHD heh, like many of us do.
- Eric Rice
I'd say the long tail is absolutely there. But some of those in the long tail are moving to pro sites, following higher recognition.
- Louis Gray
Can't anyone technically be a pro with AdSense? Although, I tried it for a while and didn't see a dime.
- Raphael, Raphael
BusinessWeek on why Twitter matters: http://tiny.cc/9Vu7G
Adewale Oshineye, Carlos Leiva Burotto, Melissa dela Merced and 22 other people liked this
http://tinyurl.com/55y48h Here's a Tiny URL. Sorry for the other one, which brings up ads.
- Robert Scoble
And to add to this, our Twitter/Friendfeed survey this week found a surprisingly high interest in using these social platforms for business purposes. Results here: http://twurl.nl/kn1gbw
- Dion Hinchcliffe
from twhirl
Twitter certainly is starting to get attention. They were talking about Twitter this morning on Live 105 in San Francisco. I think that's the top rated morning show in the Bay Area.
- Thomas Hawk
Good to see an informative tech article from Businessweek
- Anthony Farrior
"The goal now, he says, is to raise money, nail down the technology, and grow Twitter until it's enormous." Note the order. :)
- Ontario Emperor
@OntarioEmperor - right!!
- Susan Beebe
maybe it's just me, but the tiny url sent me somewhere entirely different, just in case anyone had the same problem http://snurl.com/29094
- Jennifer Van Grove
from Alert Thingy
I think that "grow Twitter" part happened before the technology was fully nailed down.
- Morton Fox
ya think?!
- Susan Beebe
@Jennifer Van Grove Tiny URL offers a thumbnail view for convenience - but I don't find it very convenient at all.
- www.MarketSaw.com
I may enjoy and respect Twitter now but when Google coordinates Jaiku, Google Talk, Gmail, Grand Central, AdSense and search, I'll be there.
- Christopher Harley
I would say that Twitter will mean less and less unless is can build discussion.
- Rob Greenlee
I don't know. I've been on both twitter and FF for a couple of weeks now. I kind of like twitter better. Its simpler. But I see how FF has more of a conversation to it. However more of the people I want to follow are on twitter.
- Nelson de Witt
from twhirl
Why can't Twitter be a platform for topic discussion? It seems like most discussion is meaningless and not very valuable to anyone
Philip J Beyer, duckamuk, Mel Francis and 4 other people liked this
It's because the really interesting Tweets roll out of sight within minutes. Here on FriendFeed the most interesting stuff keeps popping up to top.
- Robert Scoble
I told Twitter about your FriendFeed page. Hope that brings an interesting discussion of this Tweet and the one about long-tail blogging too.
- Robert Scoble
Heh well if Twitter don't make the functionality, someone else will. Robert and I started a discussion and brought it here. Hell, if they asked for money (friendfeed), I'd prolly pay. Now, about that ZUNE.... I could give a rip about it buuuuuuut, there's this whole xbox integration thing. ;) I'll hit you up in a another channel hehe
- Eric Rice
Twitter has always seemed like a tool to inspire conversation to be taken elsewhere due to the character limit & how easy it is to miss something.
- Mel Francis
I have not had great luck starting conversations on Twitter, but it has led to many discussions outside of Twitter.
- Terry Morawski
Twitter is the great conversation platform but it's needed personal tuning
- Igor Poltavskiy
FriendFeed is filling that discussion need... I guess
- Rob Greenlee
Thanks Robert for sharing my Tweet on FriendFeed... Discussion is raging now
- Rob Greenlee
Friendfeed should be called "TopicTalk"
- Rob Greenlee
CBS to buy CNET Networks for $1.8 billion - http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r...
Roger Chen liked this
WOO, congrats, CNET!
- Eric Rice
I think CNET is worth it
- Rob Greenlee
CNET needs to get a little more sick though
- Rob Greenlee
@spin what do you mean that the people I'm following aren't community?
Hutch Carpenter, Rick Castello, Sally Church and 3 other people liked this
I totally disagree, obviously, with Spin. Interesting point about community here: http://technosailor.com/2008... By the way, I've met thousands of people on my Twitter list. Personally. Face-to-face. I have about 10,000 business cards in my collection since 2000.
- Robert Scoble
See here: http://technosailor.com/2008... ..the theory is of how the positive response to Spielberg, et al, on Seesmic went illustrates an oft denied thing about popularity, audience, fame, etc. *Real* fame, not some low-rez industry fame.
- Eric Rice
Eric: how small does a community have to be to be considered a "real" community?
- Robert Scoble
Eric (er, Spin) does a community have to consist of "only" real friends to be considered a community? Define 'real" friend, please.
- Robert Scoble
WRT to small community, that's a great question. Nike used to be a dude selling shoes out of the back of the van, Yahoo (and google) were couple dudes in college... When did they become behemoth, uncool, mainstream, or whatever 'acknowledgment-of-arrival-via-negativity' terminology appeared?
- Eric Rice
Community is transitional, it's something that changes all the time. The Indiana Jones gang seesmicing means nothing unless they're still seesmicing in a month's time or more. It's about a collective experience rather than a fleeting instant.
- Richard A.
I don't believe the numbers in the community effect it's integrity, as much as how many people in that community interact with one another. If it's just you talking to hundreds/thousands of people, and no cross chat/follows/comments - well... that just makes you a hub of "knowing lots and lots of people"... The sense of community comes from how much of a web it is (twitterwheel for example).
- Enrique Gutierrez
WRT 'real friends' etc. I believe 'acquaintance' is the proper def for what is considered the New 'Friend'... The issue I brought up with your 20K is at what point does Friend or Community become Audience? Is Audience a commodity?
- Eric Rice
You used the word 'collection' for business cards of people. What's the epic rare foil collectible in that mix? :)
- Eric Rice
Woz's card. Hehehh.
- Robert Scoble
but if community is transitional, does it matter if the IndianaJonesGang is on Seesmic in a month? or does a transitional community have to contain the exact same cast of characters for the entire duration that it is called a community? and do all characters in that community have to consistently be present, ie 3 times a week, for 6 years in order to achieve membership in that community?
- Nathan Eckenrode
Audience is a commodity if you're jasoncalacanis. Me? I really don't care if you're following me. Just unfollow quietly.
- Robert Scoble
The new definition of "friends" ranges from serious friends like my wife (she sleeps with me, so is the ultimate friend) all the way to people who talk with me on Twitter but who I have never met. Some of my best friends are on Twitter, too.
- Robert Scoble
If the Indiana gang come in for ten minutes then they're visitors. If they've got a hundred videos and know people then they're part of the community.
- Richard A.
@richard that single moment in time is valuable for the propulsion. It's not always reproduceable... Remember when Deepak Chopra showed up and hung around? I recall he actually irritated people after his arrival.
- Eric Rice
"Community" isn't defined by size, but rather by engagement, points of commonality, duration, interaction, and participation. I'm in the people who eat Cheerios community.
- Michael Markman
He who dies with the most business cards wins.
- Michael Markman
If an unknown person comes and seesmics once and never comes back does anyone take notice or care? Not really. Am I as strong a member of seesmic as I was a few months ago? No, why? because I don't participate as much. Is twitter as interesting now that I live in Switzerland whilst many of the friends are in London, nope, The circles are changing and so is involvement.
- Richard A.
Michael: great point. I'm in the same community, by the way (Honey subgroup).
- Robert Scoble
A community has a sense of shared identity which is greater than the sum of the parts. Key individuals may come and go, but the core purpose of the community generally remains. The community can even move to another place, physically or virtually, but the sense of identity remains. It's kind of like a rock band -- think Fleetwood Mac, for example.
- Scott Allen
And I would say that unless there's a focal point for group interaction and common identity, it's pretty hard to call it a community, e.g., "people who eat Cheerios". That is, unless there's yet another Ning community I haven't discovered yet. :-)
- Scott Allen
To adjust the questions on community.... at what point does an active 'creation' (like we do with friending software) = creating an audience vs. building a community. We see these stories about detecting Twitter trolls, and following/followers is part of that. Is there a threshold or difference when it's a bit fuzzy in the public acquaintance-sphere? We're still binary meat for the services, it's quite possible the same at a p2p level. The ultimate in opt-in. Opt-in celebrity.
- Eric Rice
Scott good point. The problem with the Cheerio eating community is that there just isn't that much to discuss with each other "great with strawberries." Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
well, now, community is many things. it's cooperation (i can accomplish more than i could alone), it's ownership (i help define and create), it's commonality (i share traits, regulations, et cetera), it's delineation (i am inside, there is an outside). i see no need to redefine community at all,
- hisherness
Cheerios are the New Cheese Sandwich.
- Eric Rice
Eric: Look at Ijustine and Scoble. Ijustine has built an audience and she doesn't respond to tweets because she gets too many. On the other hand Scoble will often take the time to respond to people that @ him, as long as he notices. That's going to build a community. On twitter I am no one's audience. I removed anyone that did not respond to my tweets because of the amount of useless noise it was generating. Really changed twitter for the better.
- Richard A.
I think to be a true 'community' needs the absence of hierarchy. Everyone has to be equals. (hence the utopian 'COMMUNism). When a member(s) is raised to a higher level of, say, influence, it ceases to be a true community. There's a difference between early adopters and those who are given early access, to the exclusion of others.
- Seth Eagelfeld
Seth, but community is built around hierarchy. I'm the student you're the teacher. I'm the employee you're the employer. We're part of the same project or group but we have different levels of experience therefre each person and their strength combine to add to the community. Take bloggers, podcasters and videographers. They have sub communities and broader communities.
- Richard A.
Community is demonstrated by interaction and reaction between its participants. Audience is when the communication is one-way and the individual members cannot interact with the performer during the performance. IMHO.
- Mark Dykeman
Richard, I think those would be 'institutions' and 'corporations'. We are certainly have different levels and skills, but not different degrees of authority over one another. I think (stress 'think') that I'm right about the classical definition of community.
- Seth Eagelfeld
@warzabidul Totally disagree that community is built around hierarchy. Community *can* have hierarchy, but does not require it. Different levels of experience != difference in hierarchy. Each brings their own strengths to the pot.
- Rick Castello
I think it's more useful to say that if someone "comes to the party" and contributes something, they've been a part of the community, even if only for X amount of time. If they only lurked and did not contribute to the discussion even, perhaps they're "visitors".
- Rick Castello
community always has hierarchy, from classical times until now. communism is not the only form of community (and even that generally ends up in hierarchy, anyway). the different roles we take on creates this hierarchy, and it is the ability to take on those roles that makes us a community. the two go hand in hand.
- hisherness
@hisherness this makes perfect sence. I agree. @Rick I think you may be talking about positions of power over one another whereas I think community is more working together toward something common. Regardless of role/position in a hierarchy, each person contributes in a necessary way
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
It depends on the size of the community and it depends on the values of that community. If there is a goal to be achieved then a hierarchy will appear. Do you think there's a hierarchy on twitter. Is there one on facebook? Is there one group that is more influential than another? If so then there is a naturally forming hierarchy, whether we recognise it or not.
- Richard A.
I still disagree. Goals can be achieved without hierarchy, by common agreement on who will handle what tasks. I'll admit that LARGE goals require some sort of management of sub-tasks, but just because a person's job is "to manage" doesn't make them any "higher" in a system than anyone else, unless the members of that system give them that power.
- Rick Castello
No, I don't see a hierarchy in Twitter. Sure, people like @Scoble and others get a lot of attention and have a lot of followers, but that doesn't give them any level of control or power of anyone else (and I'd guess they wouldn't want it anyway). [Well, maybe Loic, but only because he BOUGHT Twhirl!] There are thousands of people using Twitter that have no idea at all who Loic or Scoble or others are, and couldn't care less. As is the beauty of Twitter. Follow who you want, and vice versa.
- Rick Castello
I can agree with Richard about visitor vs. community member. There is a certain amount of time that an engagement needs to last in order to be part of the community. Though I do wonder if you all think it needs to be a consistent engagement? Can I stay on Friendfeed for 2 weeks, fall off for 2 months, and come back for 2 more weeks and be classified as part of the community?
- Corvida
There is channel on IRC that I stayed away from for about a year, came back and it was like I had never went anywhere. I'm even an op, there.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
What else would you call this, but community discussion
- Rob Greenlee
@rob an audience? ;) someone should do a find/replace for community -> audience
- Eric Rice
why does everything have to be a damn community? Can't you just get together now and then, come and go as you please, have a conversation. There will be time enough for communities when you're in the old folks' home.
- Prokofy Neva
community is important because until you "know" someone, you don't know how to take what they're saying.
- marty nickel
from twhirl
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