Robin Wauters - Comments

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Two people you might not know are on Twitter but are: @TomCruise (sorry) and Ray Ozzie (@rozzie)

October 8 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Kevykev liked this

All of a sudden, I feel like jumping on the couch for joy. - Louis Gray

yea, but @rozzie is a closed feed and he only follows 7 people - that isn't exactly "on twitter" - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

you're just jealous because you're not Ray Ozzie - Robin Wauters

Zee.

I've been wanting to ask this for a while, and considering Mike Arrington is a web celeb now - i'll just ask publicly. Why do SOME of you dislike/hate Michael Arrington? It's not a rhetorical question btw - i'm genuinely asking because i've thought hard...and can't think of anything that that he's specifically done.

June 28 - Comment - Like - Share

Jim Braux-Zin, Cibeles, Punegeek and 56 other people liked this

have some of you had personal bad experiences with him? Is it just that you think he's arrogant. I've personally got no issue with the guy aside from the fact that he's technically competition for TheNextWeb and I think he & his site make techmeme way too often! :) - Zee.

75 more comments

My personal interactions with Mike have all been good. (E-mail, phone, F2F) His positions no doubt occasionally disagree with mine. - Louis Gray

Well, I for one do not hate or dislike him. In fact, I think he's brilliant, but he also tends to think out loud (or think while posting, I guess) and therefore comes across as abrasive. He is frequently wrong too, but has real trouble thinking that there may exist other viewpoints besides his own, especially in the midst of a discussion. At times like that he just goes on and on, and eventually just makes a bore of himself. - Jim Hearts FF

@Louis and that's what i seem to hear from most industry professionals who have encountered him...So i'm stil left confused. Is it mainly because at times Techcrunch has broken embargoes and so the majority of haters are PR folk and entrepreneurs? Or is it mainly other competing bloggers? I mean where the heck does some of the hatred come from... - Zee.

He didn't really pop up on my radar till that thing with Leo Laporte (which apparently was the result of a big misunderstanding?) I was subbed to the TechCrunch account here on ff and thought that a lot of the stuff that popped up was pretty interesting. If anything I "hate" that he's gone... - J. Abdul-Qahhar

I think he's a savvy guy and he's opinionated. I don't know the guy personally but it seems like he takes things *way* too personal, but perhaps that's what drives him to be great. Lately it seems like he just doesn't want to listen anymore and that's a dangerous place to be for any profession IMO. - AJ Kohn

@AJ I would normally tend to agree but then again - when someone spits in his face and he receives death threats...surely that's personal no? - Zee.

My initial personal interaction with MA was when I was at Mashable - given that, it's not surprising that it was particularly negative. He seems to have softened on me as an individual since I've left there. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

1st of all, I don't *actively* dislike him = I don't seek out opportunities to tear him down or flame him. I even empathized with him when he wrote about being publicly spit on and considering restraining orders in the past. Then the Last.fm episode happened. After the dust settled, it was clear that MA had spun whatever actually happened in the most accusatory manner possible. I... more... - LANjackal

He is the Perez Hilton of tech. He made an ass load of money only by hurting people. He loses his freakin mind if ever the camera looks back at him and calls him on his fuckery. He horribly over-reacts to perceived "danger" and threats and "violence" (he was spit on, that is not violence). - Matthew DeVries

@Mark - can you reveal any details publicly about the interactions with him at Mashable? - Zee.

Zee - I can say that I do appreciate your objective review of this subject. Good on you. - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge

@Zee.: Few people deserve that type of abuse and surely Mike doesn't. But ... he shouldn't be surprised by getting negative reactions. One should have a real understanding that the masses are full of loons. (I've received hate mail at my home from editorials I had in newspapers.) So, the more you instigate, the more you should expect to incite the loons. It's not fun, it's not fair, but... more... - AJ Kohn

I've know Mike for some years now, and I think he is one of the smartest and nicest people I've ever met. The way he looks at businesses and technology is remarkable, and it has been nothing but an honor and pleasure working with him. Imagine getting pitched 30 times a day by entrepreneurs for one story, spat on the face, and more. That's why Mike has to deal with, and no one gives him any credit. - Daniel Brusilovsky

Well said, AJ. It doesn't make it right, but it's reality. - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge

I consider what he pulled on Leo Laporte a personal attack so mark me down in the MA=hate category. He might not have known Leo for a long period of time, however the people that have followed Leo for a long time as I have, know his credibility and integrity are above reproach. - John Blanton from twhirl

@Matthew DeVries but death threats is another story altogether...And personally, I would take being spat on very seriously (probably because I'm half iraqi...but still) - Zee.

@Zee I'm probably not supposed to, and it might come back to bite me, but I will anyway. I had posted a blog entry up at Mashable that had some youtube video of a leaked product demo or something - we had gotten a tip on it in our Mashable inbox, and I ran with it before doing my due diligence. Turns out someone downloaded the TC video before the blog post went up and uploaded it to... more... - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

@Zee: Just to make it clear, I don't support death threats or spitting on people. That's wrong. But from my observation of MA, he brings a lot of that on himself by his own actions. He makes a conscious decision to be an ass, and people are ... people, not computers. Your laptop won't get mad at you, but people will. - LANjackal from IM

I don't think folks hate him - though many really don't like him. From my viewpoint, he seems opinionated - and somewhat intransigent. Of course, that is true for most insightful people (even in the tech community). In many ways, he reminds me of Dave Winer, Adam Curry and even Robert Scoble. Each of these people have important things to say. Sometimes, the way they say it can alienate people. As for me, I like Mike's self confidence. But it's a fine line to walk. - Lorin Olsen

@Mark - thanks for sharing, very interesting - and yeah he probably did overreact but i guess you can see why he was pissed off eh - Zee.

Zee, with respect, what you're doing by starting this very thread is giving people yet another platform to people who would like to say why they dislike MA without knowing him. Apart from Mark (ex-Mashable), who is telling the story from one side obviously, I don't think you'll find a lot of people who are going to tell you why they dislike because of something he said or did to them... more... - Robin Wauters

@Zee I can see why he was pissed, but he could have handled it better. That's just from my side, though. The feuding between Mashable / TC was a little nutbar-ish, in my opinion. I know that the only reason I soured on TC at all was as a reaction to the hate from the other side of the table. I have no idea where the emnity started (probably goes back as far as the Jewish-Arab conflicts), and has as much basis in logic as that conflict does as well. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

@Robin I know what you're saying...but to be honest, I hope for the opposite. There have been a number of occasions when I've posted something written by Arrington and people automatically launch into attacks on him & his character. I raised this (after some debate in my head about whether I should I might add) because I wanted to provide a platform for people to calmly and rationally... more... - Zee.

Rather than something specific, wasn't the original criticism that Techcrunch was making & breaking web-startups back in "the day?" Which may or may not have lead to the amount of trolls commenting on Techcrunch, which may or may not have lead to the death threat, which may or may not have lead to the backlash at his comment on Laporte's Pre? Who really has time to keep track of it all, he's public so some people will hate him. - Vincent van Wylick

@Vincent i agree with the "he's public so some people will hate him" but there's no doubt in my mind from the time I've spent online - that he is targeted more so - Zee.

@Robin: "nothing but a blog" I'm sorry, but I'm someone who has nothing but a blog. Mike was named one of the 100 most influential people by TIME in 2008. I don't dislike Mike for what he does, he's a smart guy and a savvy businessman. But I do dislike his *reaction* to events that unfold and the idea that he's nonplussed that he could be targeted in such a way. Here's my analogy. I'm... more... - AJ Kohn

@Zee: "He's public so some people will hate him" Given that there are MANY public tech personalities, that can't be the only reason - LANjackal from IM

the wikipedia criticism section of techcrunch is very, very sparse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Vincent van Wylick

Having not read a single response above all I can say is watch this video where he accuses Leo Laporte of giving biased reviews because he had a loaner unit which had to be returned and all will be revealed http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Paul OFlaherty

@Paul - yep, but he has apologized outright for that. I've done worse. - Zee.

@Zee: Really? Where's this claimed apology? Link? - LANjackal from IM

@LANJackal http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Zee.

@Zee: Thanks, reading now - LANjackal from IM

@Zee An apology is all well and good after the fact, It still doesn't change the fact that he was an asshole and if past behavior is anything to judge by he will be again.. Just listen to Laportes reaction, he's pissed not just because of that one event, but because of how Arrington has been for as long as he's known him.. - Paul OFlaherty

I don't hate Mike Arrington or like him either, I don't know him, I can only go by what he writes and what I've seen of him on line. He does like to stir things up, but I not sure if he is always ready for the reaction he gets, when he is not he comes across as self involved. Saying that I certain he would be both fascinating and hair pulling guy to know - Kim Landwehr

@Paul - yeah i thought the same..but its one person losing it. What i mean is, as much as i like/resppect him, Laporte isn't God - disagreements happen all the time at work and that doesn't make one person bad and the other good. Look, i'm not necessarily standing up for Mike here but I just want to try & put things in perspective. That argument on air is no where near enough for the targeted attacks I've personally seen online directed at him. - Zee.

Mathew: Arrington has helped MANY people and startups. You are wrong when you say he only hurts people. Absolutely wrong. - Robert Scoble

@Zee Laporte is by no means god.. LOL He's made his share of cock ups too in the past, but for all that Arrington has done good, he has a habit of rubbing people the wrong way if you know what I mean. He is deliberately abrasive because it brings him attention. When you're that abrasive you become someone that people love to hate. - Paul OFlaherty

I like Mike. I like Pete at Mashable. I have huge disagreements with how both of them report the news,but that's just my perspective on process journalism. That said, I think it's unfair to judge the guy (Mike) based on what we read online from his media outlet as many of us seem to. Unless you've met the guy in person, it's no use in making an assertion one way or another I feel. - Brandon Mendelson

Why do I get the feeling that the original question will not get answered in this thread? :) Based on a brief Google search, you can write a whole thesis on why people love/hate Arrington, and how justified it all is. - Vincent van Wylick

@Brandon - exactly. Deliberately controversial posts are part of what makes Techcrunch a success. It's entertainment, pure and simple. People take it far too seriously. - Martin Bryant

The problem is that it's not just entertainment. Techcrunch has a lot of voice and what it publishes can make huge waves on and off the internet. Whether such power should be wielded by a single person/editor, I don't know. - Vincent van Wylick

TechCrunch has more than a dozen employees at this point. - Robert Scoble

That's true, it's an organisation, which is great. But take today, he compared Friendfeed to a virus like Syphilis. I personally don't mind the comparison, but I'm sure other people will. It's provocative blogging and he's using a powerful platform, Techcrunch, to state a personal opinion. It's the nature of the internet that this is happening and I don't know where it's all going, but many little (potential) needles can make for a sharp object. - Vincent van Wylick

@Paul - guess what, the Leo thing was a mistake, a misunderstanding. It was cleared up inside an hour by the two people involved on the dispute and it was over. You are barney fife and are not allowed to have an opinion because you were not invovled in the dispute and the people involved were finished with it. Leo said it was done and forgiven, so be done with it and forgive it and quit... more... - Matthew DeVries from fftogo

Lol Abby... - Zee.

@Matthew DeVires, The questions asked here by @Zee is "Why do SOME of you dislike/hate Michael Arrington?" The incident with Laporte is a perfect example of why people dislike Arrington. The fact that the settled things between them afterwards is immaterial. - Paul OFlaherty

@Matthew DeVires I also suggest that instead of bitching at me for not reading what everybody else wrote in the thread, you go and read the question that started the thread! - Paul OFlaherty

@Paul it is material only to people who are dumb enough to believe that incident characterizes either Michael or Leo. - Robin Wauters

well said Robin - Zee.

@Robin, I don't believe it does. It was certainly out of character for Leo to explode like that. Again, it was an example of how Arrington rubs people up the wrong way. How being deliberately abrasive make you the person people love to hate, which I believe I said earlier in this thread. - Paul OFlaherty

i'm not a fan of Arrington. mostly because i find his mean-spirited behavior little more than link-baiting to promote his own self interest. i've watched from a distance (not a subsriber, etc.) and over the years i've seen him grow more and more strident in his posts - a typical pattern for someone on a personal downward spiral. in the last year this mean attitude has folded back on him... more... - MikeAmundsen

@Paul - That incident is not an incident, therefore is not relevant to the proceedings. You should delete your post and read the thread next time. - Matthew DeVries

Every industry has its Limbaughs and Hannitys. - Eric Rice

linkbaiting at its finest Zee, crawl back under a rock, you should be ashamed - Patphelan

I'm ambivalent - that means I don't give a shit! :P - Yuvi

@Pat - ashamed of myself?? Linkbaiting to what? - Zee.

Not called for, or accurate Patphelan.... - Matthew DeVries

When I was in college, there was this kid who claimed to like hockey, and we were watching a game. We called the goalie a "Sieve". He thought it meant asshole, and started calling everyone that for like 2 weeks. It showed that he didn't know jack about hockey. You seem to have just learned the word "Link-baiting" think it just means asshole and you're tossing it where ever, though it doesn't even remotely apply. - Matthew DeVries

Who? - Alix Whitmire

His name was Dave Roy. - Matthew DeVries

I don't dislike/hate Michael Arrington, he's been very helpful to me on a couple occasions, gotten me in contact with the right people right-away. - Brandon

@Pat: This isn't baiting in any definition of the word. Zee asked an honest question which probably should have been asked a looong time ago before things got to this stage. The OP doesn't link back to anything anyway. Careful with your accusations, please. - LANjackal

Heh, I read this thread before the current 'Friendfeed/Syphillis' post on TC. Annnnd that about sums it up. Makes me wanna go kill kittens. - Eric Rice

I feel out of the loop on this, too. - Fossil Huntress

I don't actually dislike him, I mean...I mentioned him in one of my songs. He does express strong opinions and usually a lot of people disagree with those opinions. I also think he does it on purpose to drive traffic, but I obviously can't prove that. Maybe he does believe all that stuff he writes :) - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

The dude was right, this is a Mob here. You would think all you California dudes would be surfin' or eating mushrooms, but here you are picking on each other! - ZuDfunck

I've delete a bunch of the last few comments from here - no i've never really done that before but the discussion was going completely off track... - Zee.

@All: I think the main question here has been answered. MA's internet presence is how most people know him, and many of those people get a negative impression from that, myself admittedly included. On the other hand, those who know him in person or follow him very closely have a more neutral-to-positive view. Character judgments will always be subjective and therefore will always vary... more... - LANjackal

@Zee: Good call - LANjackal

@matthew apples and oranges mate apples and oranges.... - Rasmus Lauridsen

No you didn't Zee, there were never any posts there. They were annulled from the proceedings and thus never happened. And now Paul and I will make up and no one gets to take either side, cause we're both hunky and dorry - Matthew DeVries

Zee - excellent! That is exactly what comment moderation is for! - Jannifer @wordsforliving

I started poking around the internet 12 years ago, and I spent a lot of time in political blogs, where feelings can run quite raw and grudges can be held forever. I've seen all manner of people and places, and I think I dislike Arrington for two reasons: (a) he runs his mouth without thinking far too frequently for someone who purportedly runs a "news" website and (b) I truly believe... more... - Steven Perez

ding ding ding. We have a winner here folks. Thanks Steven. People can hope all they want about a person's "good intentions" but ignoring your own powers of discernment and judgment in subservience to that hope is actually hopeless. Temple Stark Phoenix, AZ http://templestark.com http://twitter.com/templestark http://desicritics.org - "I'm not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing." - Temple Stark from email

For me, he falls into the same category as a lot of pundits: he has some very good, specific knowledge that he conflates into declarative statements of dubious provenance. While I can appreciate some of what he says, his often confrontational stance (before being questioned) is a turn off. - Jennifer Dittrich

Robin Wauters

Google Friend Connect Finds A Friend In Netlog - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...

May 22 - Comment - Like - Share

Testing Streamy - Robin Wauters

CrunchCam: Robin Wauters

Did Dave McClure have to come to the office to post a guest post? That's harsh.

May 14 - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Brusilovsky liked this

yes, that scenario does this seem more likely. on an unrelated note, this is the first time I'm really using FriendFeed. What the Crunchcam is good for ... - Robin Wauters

CrunchCam: MG Siegler

can we talk about twitter? is it really down again?

May 14 - Comment - Like - Share

Susan Beebe, Atul Arora and Rick Turoczy liked this

what's twitter - Steve Gillmor

17 more comments

I don't know. Check google. Oh, wait. - Erick Schonfeld

i like twitter - Henry

i thought you only liked live search and bluetooth mice henry - MG Siegler

i LIKE twitter... but i LOVE live and bluetooth mice - Henry

twitter = ff marketing tip jar - Steve Gillmor

OMG Eurovision. I'm thinking about finding the closest european bar - Henry

Chrome: "The webpage at http://twitter.com/home might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address." Maybe it moved to Friendfeed.com? - David Damore

likely david - MG Siegler

Seems Twitter has returned to it's regularly scheduled program. Same location too ;) - David Damore

everyone loves eurovision - Robin Wauters

this would work better on the page if comments pushed this thread to the top - MG Siegler

oh wait it does. but not when expanded i don't think. tricky - MG Siegler

it's a western vs. eastern europe thing i think - Henry

yes fail whale time again! Grrr - Susan Beebe

no one likes eurovision - Robin Wauters

here I was thinking it was my client being a PITA. good to know that it's just failwhales. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

lol - who takes Eurovision seriously? Even the BBC presenter (Terry Wogan) takes the piss out of it every year... - Jamie

Yes, it's real! Was really DOWN ! - Giorgio Marandola

CrunchCam: Robin Wauters

Why do I never see MG there? Has anyone ever really seen MG? Is he real, or a myth?

May 14 - Comment - Like - Share

Susan Beebe and Bret Taylor liked this

i was there yesterday! check the tapes! - MG Siegler

2 more comments

He's the one in the clown makeup - Erick Schonfeld

i ran into shit on the segway - MG Siegler

wow, this is like, real-time, dude. - Robin Wauters

CrunchCam: Henry

By the way, FriendFeed should support Gravatar. I really hate uploading my profile pic.

May 14 - Comment - Like - Share

everyone hates it when you upload your profile pic anywhere - Robin Wauters

maybe gravatar should support friendfeed. - MG Siegler

Zing! - Henry

Robert Scoble

Let's talk on friendfeed about my wacky idea to combine techmeme, friendfeed, google news, twitter search into 1 site:

April 2 - Comment - Like - Share

Dan Brickley, Enrique Gutierrez, Rob Diana and 73 other people liked this

I tweeted this: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... and it got a big discussion going about what I was looking for. Here's more details: - Robert Scoble

90 more comments

I was looking at the "Everyone" page here on friendfeed and realized what I wanted was the "everyone" page, but filtered to show items that were already on Techmeme. - Robert Scoble

Then I thought about all the other sites I visit every morning. Google News. Google Blog Search. Twitter search. And wondered why no one had built a "meta news" site that uses all of these. http://www.techfuga.com/ is one idea. http://www.feedly.com is another. http://www.alltop.com is another. - Robert Scoble

As I said on Twitter, you're looking to solve a problem VERY few people have + are going to have in the future. - Robin Wauters

But none of those satisfy. None have done a good job for me alone. - Robert Scoble

I want the same thing. All my RSS feeds in one client, with the ability to tweet them, and have a conversation thread that you can actually follow (which for one reason or another Twitter doesn't enable very well). Add to that search capabilities that span several social networks and then you'd have a winner. - Josue Fontanez

Robert, seems like it's already a pretty doable idea using Yahoo pipes and dupe removal... - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Robin: I really don't give a shit. Why does everything have to be for billions of people? - Robert Scoble

Your wacky idea should have an algorithm to combine similar posts (links to articles, mainly). FF doesn't seem to do this very well. - You.

Robin: a great meal happens four people at a time. No one complains that no one else can experience it. - Robert Scoble

Everyone: There's millions to be made here. Pay attention! - Meryn Stol

Tina: I need to learn Yahoo Pipes. Has anyone created a Pipe that does something close to this? - Robert Scoble

@RobinWauters maybe it's a problem that people just aren't aware that they have. - Landon

I have no capital to invest in your plan Robert, but I would like to subscribe to your newsletter, and support this idea in a non-money sort of way. - Matthew DeVries

Robin: great technologies get built to scratch an itch all the time. Even Twitter. When they built it they had no clue that it would be popular. - Robert Scoble

I'm not sure they should join such a site even if it were cool. Twitter search is destined for greatness. Imagine Live.com was the only search engine to display real-time results from Twitter.com together with their normal results? People would search for something, and not only get the usual results, but what people are saying about that right now. It would be a killer combo, something... more... - Odi Kosmatos

Scoble, why don't you quickly break down what specific value each service brings to the table? ie why do you bother going there in the first place? - Landon

I've played around with Pipes and it's a very powerful (and not surprisingly user-unfriendly) technology. - You.

Landon: sure. Techmeme shows me the biggest stories in Tech in a way that's unique and shows me lots of blogs that are talking about each story. Friendfeed has the best community and best "live web" search engine. Google News shows me all the news from around the world. Sports. Finance. Big city stuff. Etc. Just like your newspaper.Twitter search shows me what people are talking about right now. - Robert Scoble

Pipes seem too complicated for my musician mind. I should have digged it more, but I don't have much time to find a perfect solution for myself. I wish I could just login to one account and everyone I'm interested in would be there. - ilter

I'd like to be able to subscribe to notifications on a post's comments. Like FB, I guess. - You.

Take a look at Streamy. I'm finding it to be very useful for this type of thing. Saved FF and Twitter searches like TweetDeck. Across the board service seraches. The service itself is similar to FF (with discussions, etc) but a much better RSS reader than FF. Development is ongoing with new features very few days right now it seems. http://www.streamy.com - Kevin Kuphal

This morning I started out on friendfeed and noticed it was very slow. Then I went over to TechMeme and found lots of interesting stories and wondered if I was missing people talking about those stories over on friendfeed. So I went to the Everyone page here and started doing some searches. But was very frustrated with what came back (mostly non-English sites). - Robert Scoble

Robert: I've made a couple of pipes. The main ones grab info from 7-15 different feeds, remove dupes based on a couple of criteria and filters out keywords I don't want (which is a HUGE plus IMO). It's not perfect, and some dupes still get through because different sites put information in different places in their markup, but that's because I use so many sources. If you're using Google... more... - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

I wanted a friendfeed search that showed me news that was being discussed on Techmeme. That's what got me thinking about all this. - Robert Scoble

Tina: I'd like to smoke your pipe! :-) I have a Yahoo account. You can email me at scobleizer@gmail.com - Robert Scoble

I would want just one more element: authority. i'd like to know who submitted it and if they know their shit. - Landon

They are integrated in my eyes, and for me. - Richard A.

Sounds like a sort of info/comms nirvana...maybe it's an Air app, adding windows for these other services into something like what Yahoo just released which is a modest gas - Sideline. - Thom Kennon

Robert: Would tapping into RSS be fast enough for what you want though or are you thinking more of a real time thing? - Landon

friendfeed combines techmem, googlenew, yahoo , twitter and a lot more other sites, including itself , that is, if you sub to a room into another pvt room: !! This is a self ecusive space much like a Mandelbrot set , if you can handle it !! - Peter Dawson

Landon: http://www.peoplebrowsr.com/ gives you some of authority because I can tag people. Someone else recommended http://oursignal.com/ - Robert Scoble

Landon: RSS isn't enough. It's not fast enough, for one, and it won't include friendfeed items for two. I'm not sure if you can even do what I want. Peter: I'm an advanced private room user here on friendfeed and it doesn't do what I want. - Robert Scoble

Peter: I want the ranking to come along with Techmeme too. What's at the top of the page is more important than what's at the bottom. That's why RSS isn't very satisfying since that forces everything into reverse chronilogical order unless you do some wacky tricks with RSS. - Robert Scoble

Well, I don´t know the details, but the people want to talk about popular things... other sites like Friendfeed offer this, your site must be different... what would be the difference (exactly)? I suposse the site offer the popular themes on Techmeme or Google News as topics for conversation - HECTOR ARTURO

Robert, wouldn't it be a good idea to take the feedback and your thoughts to your blog, so you can elaborate a bit on what it is you want? You can explain in more detail and the feedback will be even more valuable. - Robin Wauters

Hector: yup. I wish I could see conversations on friendfeed that match up to what's on Google News or on Techmeme or on Twitter search. That would be cool. - Robert Scoble

Robert -- what is the problem you are trying to solve? It seems to me you posted a solution and people are madly discussing other solutions. I don't see any clear statement of the problem. - Brian Sullivan

Robin: yup, after I think about it some more. This was mostly a brain fart I had and I like being interactive when I'm brainstorming ideas like this. Seems to have at least a few other people interested too. - Robert Scoble

Brian: the problem is that on friendfeed it's hard to find the really good tech conversations. If you are over on Google News, it's hard to find the blogs and tweets and friendfeed conversations that are happening around the news. If you are over on Techmeme it's hard to find the stuff that's happening on Twitter or friendfeed. That tells me there's opportunity for something new to glue all of these together to make all of them more useful. - Robert Scoble

It's an interesting train of thought, but I'm still left wondering what you want - Robin Wauters

Robert: I think this is a great idea...I'm swimming in all the details of trying to sift the news and see whats really happening and what people really think about it. I also don't have as much time to go through each and every site to discover the gems-This idea certainly has the potential of being VERY useful to a good number of people. Meryn points out there are millions to be made w/ this - Correct. Directly possibly, and Indirectly FOR SURE. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Robert: I can dm or email you something I'm working on that you might like. Private - trying to launch at TC50. - Landon

Robin: let's just take it from friendfeed for a second, to answer what I want. I want to have a site that uses the "Everyone" feed and shows me everyone who is discussing an item that's currently on Techmeme. I'd love it if it were displayed like Techmeme too. Is that understandable as to what I want? Now, that we got that, let's add Twitter search's trending topics. Cool? Now let's add Google News. - Robert Scoble

the question is does FF support any RSS feed? if so then integrate what you want, integrating service is interesting, filtering by interest even more interesting. - abdellah

Landon: please do. I'll keep to embargoes. scobleizer@gmail.com or you can call me at +1-425-205-1921 - Robert Scoble

Here is a search that shows all of the most engaged items on friendfeed right now. (This search shows all items on the Everyone feed that have 5 comments AND five "likes."). http://friendfeed.com/search... Note how noisy it is and how unfocused it is. I'd love it if I could say "filter by Techmeme." Or "filter by what's currently on Google News." - Robert Scoble

love that idea filtering by service :) - abdellah

abdellah: Friendfeed can pull in any RSS feed (or most of them, anyway) but that's not what I want. I want it to display items that are already on Techmeme. RSS might play a role in that, but it isn't enough. I'd need an engine to go through the Everyone feed looking for discussions already taking place and then I'd need to display those. Techmeme's value is in its display, which isn't easy to communicate via RSS. It's a tough problem. - Robert Scoble

Robert. Here's a quick screenshot I did from Streamy. Took seconds to create a search widget added to my FF page that shows techmeme conversations. http://img504.imageshack.us/img504.... Works the same for searching twitter as well as your RSS feeds. - Kevin Kuphal

Well, casually. some minutes ago, I was talking about the tendences on Twitter users & those tendences can fix on your project (if is a project): http://twitter.com/hectora... http://twitter.com/hectora... http://twitter.com/hectora... http://twitter.com/leugimf... - HECTOR ARTURO

Robert: i'll buzz you now if that's cool. - Landon

Fallon's Skimmer - http://www.fallon.com/skimmer - does a good job of the more media-centric social networks (FB, YT, etc) - maybe an AIR app is the way to tackle this as opposed to burying it in a tab that can easily lose its session/context/settings etc... - Ben Watson from twhirl

Tina: you have the right idea here with your pipe setup & de-duping- It would be great if something could then point out where all the dupes are at the end of each entry, rate/rank by # reads (of article and originating sites), and have "authority" rating via tags perhaps imported from the likes of peoplebrowsr. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Kevin: but that shows all items that discuss Techmeme. I don't want that. Too noisy. I only want to see items that actually are ON Techmeme. - Robert Scoble

sounds like my stream, thankyou, lol :) - chaz2b

Heavens me, Robert. I would love to have 'problems' like this. For someone whose on the interent non-stop, what would you do with all the free time you'd have If you just had one "single stop" for meta-everything? (conversations, feeds etc, etc) /tounge-slightly-in-cheek, of course ;) - Chris Duffy

I think Pipes are probably the way to go then. You really need some logic behind the filtering. More than a typical search will give. - Kevin Kuphal

Robert - how would you relate or tag the conversations as being on "Techmeme" or "Google News". I don't think it works if it is a mechanical connection (url referenced for instance). That kind of connection misses so much is an generally unsatisfying. It seems the connecting requires intelligence, personal involvement -- difficult to do in real time -- maybe you could pay people to do it (like Mahalo?). - Brian Sullivan

robert, I understand yes, it is a kind a a big puzzle where all the "related" "related by what" items a cross diverse services. - abdellah

Doesn't BackType do this? Just pump a Techmeme link through BackType's API to get everyone's comments. Example: http://www.backtype.com/connect... - Daniel Sims

Chris: if I had this, I'd find something else to complain about. :-) Kevin: I must learn to use Pipes. Marshall Kirkpatrick showed me that last year and it looked useful, but I never had a big enough need. This is it. - Robert Scoble

Daniel: that is very close to what I want, but not there. Backtype is mostly about federating comments, I thought. At least that's how I use it, although the link you gave me shows that it can be used in other ways. Interesting. - Robert Scoble

brian, you are brilliant, there are 2 sort of connection "words" and "social graph", without going in AI level algorithm this may be done by investigating those 2 direction : "related words" , "related peoples" - abdellah

as brian says it is hard if we try to make it real time , pipes are useless if we have to make it real time :) - abdellah

Brian: you might be right that it needs to have some human involvement. Even Techmeme is learning that it's better to have atul working for them (for free, I might add!) than to have just algorithms doing the work. - Robert Scoble

I think the issue is that the controls necessary to fine tune the conversation would look like you are flying a plane. If you want to just see everything based on a keyword at a point in time there are really easy tools but if you want to archive everything, like I do in Google Reader, have curation like Techmeme, and let friends play like friendfeed it would be a very complex interface. That's why we are talking pipes, tweetdeck, http://tradeshowmetrics.com/Default... or maybe tinker.com - Tom

I've been advocating for integration between TechMeme and FF in terms of comments and links. Twitter threads also need to be preserved in FF. I don't use GoogleReader. Lora and I have been talking about the opposite though and things getting too connected. Hotmail, for instance, shows "what's new in your network" (Twitter, Live status, etc) by default and to me this just doesn't seem... more... - Loren Heiny

I can almost guarantee you there are at least 10 people reading this who are part of teams trying to build such a service/app. I'd guess 50% are building a web site, expecting people will add yet another site to their daily workflow or just drop some other combination of sites to use theirs. 40% are probably building Air apps, and 10% are building Mac apps. And I'd guess none of them are talking to each other, because everybody wants to be the next big thing. I wonder... - Ken Sheppardson

...what would it take to get them all in the same room, and convince them to pool resources? - Ken Sheppardson

Isn't it far easier to just ignore it all and serendipitously skim the occasional bit or piece of it, rather than bulk it all up and eat it whole? Use the lack of integration to your advantage. Blimey, you're probably reading every single comment on here, too! - Ian Tindale

Ian: I am! :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert (or anyone else for that matter): here's an example pipe http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes... This takes a Google Blogs search for Techmeme, a FF search for Techmeme (items with > 5 likes & 5 comments), and a news.Google.com search for Techmeme. Filters out any from Scoble's site, and then permits any that are a link to Techmeme, Google News, or have... more... - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Tina: that's cool, but it's not satisfying. For one, it doesn't look like either Techmeme or Friendfeed. I think I need to do a video of what I want to explain it better, but I'm off to attend the Web 2.0 expo so will noodle on that this weekend. Thanks everyone, interesting times we live in! - Robert Scoble

Robert: this kind of pipe creates a feed that you can bring directly into FF, say into a room that you create. Just a thought. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Let's combine the whole internet into one site.... ooh wait, Google already done that. - Amit Morson

Robert: We (BackType) certainly federate comments, but around more than their authors -- we federate around keywords (search) and content (connect) like the example Daniel showed you, which connects the conversational graph for a particular blog post. I e-mailed you about what we're doing w/ the latter. But more generally, I think FriendFeed for news is a basis for what you're... more... - Christopher Golda

@Scoble: i agree with your initial assertion that Feedly is pretty close...they've done an AMAZING job with it so far... - .LAG liked that

I hate to pimp my own service (not really) but with our last update at justSignal.com we now have support for Twitter, Google Blog Search and Backtype - you get each as a widget that can be fully customized via CSS and incorporated into your site. You also get the DATA... which is great if you want to learn something from what you collect. FriendFeed is next on our list... Link: http://briantroy.com/blog... - Brian Roy

@BrianRoy... everyone knows: pimpin' aint easy! i'm heading over for a look at justSignal. thx. - .LAG liked that

LAG - love to hear your feedback/thoughts brian dot roy at cosinity dot com - Brian Roy

@Scoble +1 for Feedly. It is FriendFeed aware. - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

Feedly is the service which is best on track to pull all this together. - Sean McBride

I thought the whole point of FriendFeed was to aggregate other sources. Wouldn't it just make sense to lobby FF to add those additional things? - Kevin Elliott

@Kevin Ah, but here's the question. Should FriendFeed be used as a 'Friend' aggregator or a 'Web Feed' aggregator ? I would prefer to use Feedly/GReader for the latter. - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

In a very general sense I see things headed in that direction, aggregation of news/blog/social media sources with tools for users to interact with the content. FF already does an amazing job with much of that, of course :-) - Eric Berlin

I am working on a site like this. Will send you invite in few days - Niraj

I'd like to be in the beta too Niraj - Matthew DeVries

And for your next magic trick, figure out some way to deal with all of the duplicate posts... :) - Steve Lynch from twhirl

and Digg? - HECTOR ARTURO

I like this idea of yours Robert. Portal of goodness :) - Susan Beebe

Check out http://www.memereview.com - James Payne

Robert Scoble

Prove that Techcrunch did not pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list. They sure were not more popular than @leolaporte two weeks ago.

February 21 - Comment - Like - Share

Wayne Sutton, Iván Abrego, Jay Neff and 114 other people liked this

Leolaporte deserves to be on the list -- he had twice as many followers as @Techcrunch did a week ago. Twitter's list is corrupt. - Robert Scoble

279 more comments

Interesting suggestion but hard to prove or disprove. - Liz

I'm out of the loop. Where is the list? - Will Johnston

How about prove that they did? - Omar Gallaga

Will: you go to friends/suggested friends on Twitter. - Robert Scoble

wow's he's totally left you for dead, he's a smartie that arrington - Bob Sonin

Omar: that is easy. Twitter has no criteria for getting on this list and mostly added big brands onto the list. - Robert Scoble

Why $10,000? Are you just making up a figure or are you privy to some information? (As an aside, I see Brooke Burke on the list with 62,000+ followers. Wow, when did THAT happen?) - Omar Gallaga

Bob: I will have the final revenge. In a year all the influentials will be on friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

Yeah, I'm liking this, on the 'guilty until proven innocent' premise that Techcrunch seem comfortable in applying to all and sundry, including FB and Last FM within just the last week.. - Andy Connell

Scoble, interesting assertion, but... I must ask: who the f*ck cares? :) - l0ckergn0me

I'm on the list, and I certainly don't have $10,000 to give anyone. Do you think I somehow bribed them, Robert? Hmm? - Veronica

l0ckergn0me - I echo that sentiment completely. - Mitch

who cares?? i'd rather follow that interest me. not how many followers they have.. - Terry O'Fee

Couldn't this also be taken as a statement on the morals of TechCrunch? - MarkCarras

guilty until proven innocent? - Mark Collier

I just noticed Robert's not on the list. Oh my God, I think I just figured it all out! - Omar Gallaga

Robert, if you're so big on meritocracy, why have you, or the friendfeed founders driven by my ff posts without a 'like' or 1,000 retweets by now? You follow me. I've tweeted big news or quality stuff, and watch the "A-List" wait to see it from another "A-lister" before they'll retweet. Power liking some small fries mixed in with friends just so you can point to your proof is bs. Why hammer Twitter for the 1,000th time? - Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct

so now we know Twitter's monetization strategy - practicehacker

Way to spread FUD. - Veronica

way to spread BS :P - Terry O'Fee

Mark - yeah, gupi.. too complicated? - Andy Connell

Hmm, never checked the list before. Wonder if new users use it a lot, or maybe I'm the only one who doesn't. - Will Johnston

Ed: just today I Twitteted several people with fewer than 50 followers. - Robert Scoble

Veronica: prove it is FUD. THAT is why this feature is corrupt. - Robert Scoble

REALITY CHECK, ROBERT: NOBODY CARES. :) - l0ckergn0me

Please... prove it's true. Is this just TC you're accusing, or everyone on the list? - Veronica

Robert, you made the accusation. I think it's on you to prove there's something to your finger pointing beyond just... you know... your finger. - Omar Gallaga

Veronica: I am not on the list. Neither is @leolaporte. We both had more followers than you did (and more than many on the list). Now I am wondering. - Robert Scoble

@techcrunch and @veronica don't appear on my suggestedfriends list so is it a random list then? - Iain

l0ckergn0me - Reality check .. YOU don't care... - Andy Connell

Veronica - let's forget about Robert's question - being on that list provides more eyeballs and more pageviews for those on the list. for those of you on the list using twitter as a marketing platform (i.e. all of the list) - it provides more traffic and you know what that equals. - Allen Stern

Note too Veronica that I did NOT say you paid. It is just that the criteria for getting on the list is corrupt. - Robert Scoble

HAH! This is the funniest thing I've heard all day. Are you really just that bored this afternoon to accuse people of spending money to be on a suggested users list? #1 As Chris says, who the frak cares. #2 Do you honestly think someone like me or iJustine have that kind of money? #3 Wow, man, I thought we were cool. - Veronica

I've made several "who to follow on Twitter" lists for the publication I work for and it's never just about who has the most number of followers. Maybe they just find the people on their list more interesting/appealing to newbies, from their point of view. Why do you assume the criteria is only "most followers? - Omar Gallaga

Allen, I understand that. But the fact of the matter remains that I (I cannot speak for anyone else) never asked to be on the list, nor did I ever pay anyone to be there. - Veronica

Veronica: I did not accuse Techcrunch of paying either. Read my question VERY carefully. I did accuse Twitter of making a feature that looks corrupt. - Robert Scoble

Robert... Do you have any proof that this occurs? Is there any accounts of this occurring in the past (anecdotal or stated). I'm don't know either way but asking people to prove a something didn't happen without an established cause of suspicion is intimidation and, frankly, wrong. - Johnny Worthington

use a twitter client bypass the suggested list. twitter don't own u :) u decided who to follow. the end - Jay Martinez from twhirl

If you are not accusing us of paying, then how are the criteria "corrupt?" - Veronica

Veronica: the fact that Twitter is picking its stars with subjective criteria is corrupt. - Robert Scoble

thanks veronica - yea my point is the marketing and "top of mind" that being on that list gives you special folks - i am not discussing the money point, robert is. - Allen Stern

Robert -- aren't you the one always laughing it off when people unfollow you and saying that the number of followers you have isn't as important as the number of people commenting on Friendfeed? Now you're saying that if Twitter bases this list on anything other than number of followers it's corrupt? Or is your initial question in some third language I can't parse? - Omar Gallaga

Veronica: prove you did not pay. You can not. The feature is corrupt. I can prove I did not pay to get on top of friendfeed. You can no longer prove that on Twitter. - Robert Scoble

Um, Robert... they onus is on you to prove they did... sorry. - Johnny Worthington

And what if they decide to rotate the list? If you're not still on there, will you continue to throw around accusations? Sounds like sour grapes, and you're better than that. - Veronica

Omar: yes. Who follows you does not matter. But that does not change fact that this feature corrupts the integrity of Twitter. - Robert Scoble

I agree with Johnny. C'mon, Robert! Show us some of that investigative blogging! Prove that TC (or I, for that matter) paid to be on there. Would you like me to send you my banking statements? - Veronica

Omar: it is corrupt because you can no longer trust Twitters' follower numbers. The people who are most popular on Twitter did not earn their position through objective criteria. That is corrupt. - Robert Scoble

I asked if you think a feature like this should be based solely on number of followers. Is that the only criteria you think is fair for making suggestions on who to follow? - Omar Gallaga

Veronica: you did not earn a position higher than @leolaporte. So why are you defending this feature? - Robert Scoble

Omar: it should be based on objective criteria everyone can figure out so no questions of propriety will stick. - Robert Scoble

Allen is on point with his comments. Being on the list does equal more $. Regardless of how folks got on it. But again this list does show that who you "know" is critical in the social web. - Kipp Bodnar

Perhaps, Robert, it is not a position to defend? Does Veronica use Twitter as a revenue tool? If not, this is moot. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

I think you should enter some criteria to generate the suggested user list (likes etc) - Iain

What criteria besides number of followers? That's the only one you've brought up. - Omar Gallaga

Robert the influentials won't be on FF, it's just an aggregator, the influentials will have their own quality medium with distribution - Bob Sonin

I do not know why Veronica is on the list and not @leolaporte so now I am wondering what is going on and no one can prove money and gifts did not get exchanged. - Robert Scoble

I'm not defending a feature. I'm defending myself from being accused of paying a company to feature me. - Veronica

Robert, you're a bank robber. Prove to me that you aren't. See how dumb that sounds? - Veronica

I heard he stole $10,000. - Omar Gallaga

That is easy: I have not received a gift from a bank I did not earn. - Robert Scoble

In that case Robert, you are traveling the path of Joseph McCarthy. Rather than presenting evidence of corruption, you are throwing around accusations and telling those you accuse to prove you wrong. - Johnny Worthington

Prove it. - Veronica

Johnny: people are getting gifts from Twitter they DID NOT earn with subjective criteria. Why? - Robert Scoble

@Scoble your headline is linkbait - but your point is valid - the recommender is crap. They should buy @mrtweet - Chris Saad

I think Robert is making weak arguments, but his base point is sound--if there is an algorithm that is making those picks, then it's not very transparent. If the list is editorial, it would be nice to at least know who has made the picks. - Eric Florenzano

Tell us what you think the criteria should be, Robert. Other than "being Robert Scoble." - Veronica

@ev posted that they just picked some names. It's not really that big of a deal. - Christian Burns

Veronica YOU received a gift from a corporation you DID NOT earn. I did not receive such a gift. This feature is corruptible. - Robert Scoble

Great question Robert... maybe you should lead with that rather than dropping corruption accusations. I actually think there may be some underhanded work in a few selected cases but unless I have evidence, I'll ask questions first, set up witch hunts later... - Johnny Worthington

Why didn't I earn it? Also, it's not a "gift," it's a recommendation. - Veronica

I say the feature is done by hand and the appearance of impropriety is nothing more than lack of research by an intern. - MarkCarras

@Veronica Robert is not suggesting he should be on the list. He has always actively worked to flatten these tools, not do land grabs which he could easily do. Suggesting that's what he is saying is not very productive. - Chris Saad

Chris, it's hard not to take personal affront to this bad logic. - Veronica

@Veronica, as I said his initial tweet is linkbait - it's clearly an exaggeration - but his underlying point is valid. - Chris Saad

Johnny: note that I did NOT accuse anyone of anything. PLEASE read carefully! I just am pointing out that some people are receiving gifts without earning them. This is why Fast Company forbids me from accepting gifts. So MY integrity does not get called into question. - Robert Scoble

@techcrunch prove to us that you are not plotting to take over the world while you pretend to drop out and take pictures of tropical beaches. I bet you aren't even going to answer me. - Christian Burns

In that case, I'd like my gifts BACK - Chris Saad

If someone added up all the pro ff posts, anti-twitter posts, link direction, they'd assume Robert was into the FF funding. - Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct

This is absurd. What gift, in tangible terms, is being given? - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Chris -- in a separate post Robert said " two weeks ago I was more popular than Techcrunch and @leolaporte was a lot more popular than me. Today Techcrunch is way more popular than either of us" -- that's flattening the tools? - Omar Gallaga

Robert, your inflammatory remarks and accusations (and they are that, no matter how many times you tell us to READ CAREFULLY) come off as really childish and insulting. If you have an issue with a feature of Twitter, there are better ways of pointing it out than accusing people who considered you acquaintances, if not pals. - Veronica

I just can't believe I am not on the list! I sent @biz 5 bucks too. WTF? - Beebo Wallace

Veronica: you did receive a gift. Advertising is sold by 1,000 viewers. Ask Ryan how much 1,000 people are worth. You did NOT earn that gift by any objective measure. - Robert Scoble

Must have some troubles with the American to Australian translation but without this thread for explanation, it sounds like you wondering out loud if Techcrunch paid biz to get on the list... - Johnny Worthington

@Omar ok well that's an even lamer way of expressing the point haha - Chris Saad

Beebo: obviously $5 wasn't enough. - Robert Scoble

It's well-known you can't "prove a negative". Or make logic with such as "clearly, pigs fly, because we have a black president" - more to the point, that list stinks, and bad -- McCain and Tony Robbins are on my list, and a bunch of corporations. - Richard ¿digame? Walker

Robert, you keep avoiding the question of what you think Twitter's objective measures should have been if not just number of followers. What do you think they should have been? - Omar Gallaga

I've been saying for years that recommendations should be based on interest overlaps, still, no one listens. www.socialwhois.com - Chris Saad

@scoble just admit you are asking Twitter to implement APML Profiling and Matching and let these people chill out - Chris Saad

Insulting people is a great way to get a point across. - Veronica

I think it is definitely a gift. You are gaining followers who are in turn being effected by your content. They aren't mailing it to you with a bow on it as in a physical gift, but they are making it much easier for you to generate revenue or web influence power. - AJK

Robert, there is no such thing as CPM for Twitter because followers -- and recommended user spots -- are not bought and sold. Period. You think they are? Prove it. - Ryan Block

Who gives a frak? Honestly. Accusing @techcrunch of paying $10,000 is stupid. How do we know he DID? Did Twitter contact you and say "the only way you can be on the list is if you pay $10,000?" And all the bagging on Veronica isn't necessary. It's a stupid list. GET OVER IT. - Zach Flauaus

Veronica: it is interesting that you feel accused. This feature sucks. Some day you will see why. - Robert Scoble

I feel accused because you accused me, and everyone else on this list. Not indirectly, directly. Oh, someday I will see why? When I'm not longer ON the list? Actually, Robert, that will be fine with me because I won't care. Because I haven't invested in BEING on the list. - Veronica

Zach: I did NOT accuse anyone of paying. I am accusing Twitter of designing a corruptible list. Friendfeed's list is defendable. This one is not. - Robert Scoble

Scoble obviously "deserves" some sort of recognition. If he doesn't get it, others must be paying. Right? - coldbrew

Read about this and other social media revelations in Robert's next e-book, "Scobleized: Destroying Relationships, Throwing Out Baseless Accusations and Talking Down To Peers." - Omar Gallaga

@Everyone who is saying the discussion is pointless just doesn't get it. These things are worth $. They seriously affect the way twitter works and who gets attention. Attention = $. Social tools are about finding niche audiences. If Twitter is biasing towards celebrities or given individuals (for whatever reason) it changes the medium and the message. Stop pretending that these things don't matter. - Chris Saad

@Omar - LOL. - Veronica

Robert... do you think that Techcrunch did pay biz $10,000 to get on the Twitter's suggested friend list? - Johnny Worthington

This whole discussion is rather petty and absurd. - coldbrew

@Johnny *sigh* he was making a point by giving a clearly exaggerated and baseless example. Our inability to prove it either way IS THE POINT - Chris Saad

has anyone tried to find out how the suggested friends algorithm atually works or are we assuming its a manually generated list cos they haven't said much about the suggested friends feature? - Iain

Perhaps the problem is that Robert should just say what he means. Also, still waiting for that objective criteria. Waiting... waiting... - Omar Gallaga

Veronica: well since there is no objective criteria for being on the list and since being on the list is a gift of tens of thousands of in earned followers and since you don't care anyway why don't you tell Twitter to make the list based on objective criteria and pull yourself off of that list until it is? That is what I would do (friendfeed fixed its list after that kind of pressure). Not to mention I can not accept unearned gifts anyway. - Robert Scoble

Chris.. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want my name used in this way. My issue is not with the point Robert is trying to make, it is the way he is going about it... - Johnny Worthington

Scoble: "Prove that Techcrunch did not pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list." That's not accusing @techcrunch paid $10,000 to Twitter? Twitter designed that list for who they (read: employees) think people should follow. Perhaps it was money, but I highly doubt it. - Zach Flauaus

How has your follow rate increased since being on the list? My assumption would be that it has increased significantly since being on the list. - AJK

Yeah, this is like a high school kid whining about his brother having all the friends, and mindlessly laying blame. - coldbrew

@Scoble accusing @techcrunch is not making things personal. @techcrunch is a big boy and Arrington and Scoble are friends. It was clearly a statement to reveal ambiguity in the process - @Veronica no need to read any more into it than face value. - Chris Saad

Haven't logged into Friendfeed for a long time, but this is rather insulting, Robert. You're seeing dollar signs and personal gains in # of twitter followers? - Derek Reiff

@coldbrew I think everything is reminiscent of high school... I'm in the damn place. lol - Zach Flauaus

Johnny: no I do not think Techcrunch or Veronica paid to get on this list but there ARE brands on there. Did they pay? I have no idea. But this feature is as corruptible as shelf space at Fry's. - Robert Scoble

Robert -- you're saying that you would have asked to be removed from such a list had you been included? What if you and Leo were both on it, but this phantom "objective criteria" you keep mentioning was not transparent? - Omar Gallaga

One man's corruptible is another man's monetizable. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

Definitely Chris! Recommendation algorithms MUST be based on something else than "popularity". We've discussed this, you and me, often, and I still believe that these algos could be 100 times smarter using "personal relevancy" — I'm sure you still share this opinion with me :) I hope I'll be able to provide a proof-of-concept thingy (yes, the one you've seen) still experimental but surely optmizable. - directeur

Omar: yes. I would be forced to remove myself from thiis list if added. - Robert Scoble

Robert: To me it looks like a list of people who aren't going to overwhelm new users and people that are going to be interesting. The reason your not on the list is because you would flood a new user and might make them want to leave the service. And all Leo does is promote TWiT and doesn't really present much value to the newer users except to lead them to his show. Honestly Scoble there is nothing corrupt about this. This list wasn't designed for us anyways, it's for new users, just let it go. - Jimminy

I'm checking out of this conversation now :) - Chris Saad

Robert, that's cool, but again without the context of your friendship with Mr Arrington and this thread for explanation, .normal' people will think that the list is corrupt and, by extension, cast dispersions on the name of the people on it (which I think is a part of Veronica's issue). While your point may be valid about the integrity of the list, please be advised that your words will have an effect on those not on the inside of social media. - Johnny Worthington

I am not allowed to accept gifts worth more than $100 and being on a list decided on subjectively is a no no for journalists. Especially those at Fast Company. - Robert Scoble

@directeur - is it popularity, an algorithm, or just a random sampling of people the folks at Twitter have heard of? it doesn't seem to be randomized whatsoever. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

Robert. you have more than enough people following now. Why does this bother you so much? it's rather sad. - Terry O'Fee

Good point James. I never thought of those reasons for the picks. I think Robert posts stuff of great value most of the time, but the point is still very much on target. - MarkCarras

Terry: the integrity of the tools I use for my living concerns me a lot. - Robert Scoble

Robert -- did you ask to be removed from this Forbes Web Celeb list? Seems like that was quite a gift: http://www.forbes.com/2007... - Omar Gallaga

Mark, sure, it definitely is not random! It can't be random and show the same faces all over the web (friendfeed, twitter..) You've described very well "popularity". But the fact is, that me "directeur" (a given user) would really like to see people who'll share my interests, this is imho the next step in socialmedia: connecting people "smartly", and providing content for users smartly too! and this could really be done (I've crafted 3 modest proofs of concept) using notions like APML. This is really DOABLE - directeur

his ego would be mended! :P - Terry O'Fee

I have no stake in whether Tech Crunch did or didn't pay someone to get @biz on the suggested list on Twitter, I do however believe that the twitter suggested list it self encourages herd following , and that those who have a massive jump in following over a short period, have a very shallow following, while those who acquire their followers over time have a much deeper following - Kim Landwehr

I understand Scoble's point. His post is misleading and deliberately provocative, but the underlying point is fair: "Twitter's suggested friend list generates lots of followers for those who are on it." Decoding his original post: "1. Two weeks ago, @techcrunch was less popular than @leolaporte. 2. Then @techcrunch ended up on the suggested friend list. 3. Now @techcrunch is more... more... - Stephen Mack

The fact that we're having this discussion is just sad. Just one blogger's opinion, though. - Ben Parr

Mark: I totally agree that Robert posts stuff of great value but he can throw controversial ideas out that he can't back up sometimes, case in point. The main reason that I don't see him on the list isn't quality but moreover the quantity of his tweets. I wouldn't want to be on the list either just out of respect to new users. - Jimminy

Well, directeur, your model is incorrect unless it places Scoble at the top of everything. If it does not, you're taking a pay off :-) - coldbrew

ben - i agree. instead of using this for what its meant for, people cry that they dont get on the top of the list. it's hillarious.. - Terry O'Fee

coldbrew :) No, Robert will be just like you in this system. BUT, there's something else and I've had the pleasure to discuss it with a very smart guy: AUTHORITY. This is NOT popularity, it's smarter (should be - because the current used definition in socialmedia is wrong) more specialized and could be done too (collaboration planned with that smart guy) - directeur

directeur: The issue is that they can't predict who someone would like. We're talking about something that none of us should be using. It's an introductory tool not something you use once you have developed your network. It's impossible to create a recommendation that works using a non existent data-set. The only way they could modify it is if they ask the user some questions about themselves during registration, that's not user friendly. Would you like to be trown a bunch of questions when you sign up? - Jimminy

James, very smart question, and yes it's doable. The content submitted by a user, the content a user likes, comments on, retweets is a very rich dataset that could be used to establish an APML profile. - directeur

thank you, jason. probably one of the smartest comments ive seen on this useless conversation... - Terry O'Fee

Robert, would you be in the same position on this if you were on the list? Or would you promote the list and the fact that you made the cut? - Debi Jones

i wonder if he would of posted it on his website too... - Terry O'Fee

Firstly, can you prove they did? - sofarsoShawn

directeur: You didn't get me though, it's for new users they have no data, they haven't retweeted, followed anyone, hasn't liked or commented on anything yet. And the majority of people aren't going to have an APML. Therefore trying to pick people off of this nullset is impossible. Honestly if I want to follow someone on twitter I'll ask my current followers for suggestions. Starting out Tabula Rasa on a new service though it's not possible. - Jimminy

Looks like we have a good old fashioned weekend BitchMeme going on here. - Mike Doeff

what bugs me is it's impossible to find people/friends/followers with interests and careers outside of tech. I've been trying since October to get a good list of science posters, and I have a grand total of 1. Kiki Sanford, and she never retweets, so I can't poach people from her. - Matthew DeVries

I don't follow @scobleizer because he's a twooshbag. But I did learn that @brookburke twitters, so I'll be following her. - kchu

terribly done yes. Paid no. Twitter should just buy MrTweet or one of the location based twitter recommendation services so it would provide people close to the new people or related interests instead of throwing random bigwigs who don't respond, not related to their interests. - BCK

Wow I can't believe you are getting so bent out of shape about this "corrupted feature" Scoble. I respect what you do but I had to stop following you because it was just too much and became annoying after a while. But seriously, who cares? Why is being followed considered a "gift?" And why would you tell them to take you off this list if you were recommended? That's just stupid. Being followed is like me walking up to you and saying, "Hey I read your blog." Is it not? I can't believe you reacted this way. - Eric Bland

hmm.. look at it the other way: some new users are joining twitter and the twitter team is simply trying to improve the experience of those users so they put together *a* set of profiles to help. This is how it works in startups. Over time, they will improve that feature so that it is more transparent, targeted, effective but you have to start somewhere. I do not think that twitter is trying to bribe anyone: they are way beyond the point of needing to do that. Too provocative Robert! - Edwin Khodabakchian

Honestly, I would never recommend @scobleizer, or any frequent twitterer, to a n00b twitter user because he would scare them away. Scoble is for hard-core users. - kchu

The burden of proof lies with the party making the claim, as this is obviously not a case of prima facie. And even if it were true, who the hell cares? This is fascinatingly idiotic. - Mouse

This entire thread reads like petty, petty bickering, mostly on the part of Robert. It's this kind of narrow minded, stubborn soap boxing that gives blogging in all its variants a bad name. I imagine what really happened is a few folks at Twitter saw some fun twitter peeps with a high profile name and a nice signal/noise ratio and decided to throw them on a list without much second thought and then moved on to more important business of the day. - Joost Schuur

One thing I take away from this is that true journalism will never be dead. Robert saw something intriguing, something that didn't add up, something suspicious. In the Edward R. Murrow days, someone would have methodically, slowly, and doggedly chased the story, built the story and told the story. Bloggers however, have a whim and fire off a post. Yeah, it will precipitate the truth, as twitter is forced under the pressure of 100,000 voices to come clean or explain the algorithm, but I guess..... - Matthew DeVries

.....I just find Murrow's way to be more elegant - Matthew DeVries

OM NOM NOM ... hmmm these grapes are very sour today... - Terry O'Fee

Robert Scoble is playing the Bullshit card on TC! I see a war coming... -

The only thing to be answered by this unanswerable question is: you get tons of followers by being on Twitter's suggested friends list. - sofarsoShawn

Hell, I can't even prove that *I* didn't pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list. - Glen Campbell, B.A.

I was on that list (@cinevegas) and did not pay to be on it. Somebody actually alerted me that I was since I didn't even know. - Roger @ CineVegas

Also this feature is a month old, why now are you attacking it? - Roger @ CineVegas

Lord all mighty. All of you don't get it do you? Twitter is about community, conversation, relationships. You are all to narcosistic to see that. Quit arguing like children. Just Twitter or shut up. Ge'ez! Act like an adult already. - Norbert Davis

What if it's just who Twitter happens to want you to follow? Was it corruption when the video store workers would all post their weekly pics? Was "Steve" on the take because he pick 5 Warner Brother's films? They should tell how that list is compiled, but you don't defame to force candor. This isn't fucking Nam, there are rules. - Matthew DeVries

The fact that this conversation happened on FriendFeed was not lost on me. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

it screws with the integrity of everything on twitter. in every way. i have 18K followers, but am not on the list. maybe i got all those followers in some side-deal with twitter that wasn't disclosed? or one day i lose 10K followers and my competitor gains 98K. is it because @biz was given some stock? or they didn't like something i said? it could all be totally innocent but it still taints everything. - Dave Winer

#followfriday = Communism - Andrew Smith

The thing is that the Twitter Suggested List is simply corrupt because there isn't an actual method behind it. - Tyler (Chacha)

Robert is simply saying the the list isn't based on popularity. - Tyler (Chacha)

I think that is a valid statement (I think I've ended the comments.... boo) - Tyler (Chacha)

ITS A CONSPIRACY I TELL YA! THE WORLD IS OUT TO GET US! - Tyler (Chacha)

Twitter needed to pick some suggested names that would be most likely to get a beginning tweeter to continue tweeting. If Twitter decides that Hammer is the way to get people to continue using the service, that's Twitter's prerogative. - Ontario Emperor

As long as it's obvious and transparent that this primer list completely due to some person or some committee's fancy with no metric whatsoever, then Twitter is doing nothing wrong. Have they admitted this? It should be apparent on the page itself. - Matthew DeVries

It's brilliant way for twitter to expand it's user base from tech geeks to the larger populace overall. - sofarsoShawn

It is quite reasonable for companies to make subjective recommendations to their customers. The Apple iTunes store, for example, provides several very subjective music, video, and app recommendations on its front page. Robert's employer just recently published a very subjective list of fifty companies that they thought its readers would find interesting. Time magazine compiled a list of 100 people they found interesting in 2008. Wait, wasn't Michael Arrington on that list? - Steve Wilhelm

Robert's argument are weak at best, founded on the assumption that Twitter's "suggest" feature should only be based on a user's # of followers. While it would be nice to know how they choose who makes it on the list, I honestly don't think Twitter has to disclose it. This is a parallel to Flickr's "interestingness" meter, which decides who make it onto their "Explore" page. The fact they don't tell you exactly how the photos are chosen, doesn't mean that it's corrupt. - Trevin

Prove to me that Robert Scoble is not an idiot. - ld

Coming to this late, but just want to thank Chris Saad for laying out the objection to an arbitrary list of recommendations in clear and sane fashion. (As opposed to inflammatory fashion, which resulted in all this hot air.) Saad's right: attention = $. - Ian Wilker

None of this will matter when celebrities and sports figures get on Twitter, and Twitter really goes mainstream. Scoble's 63K and Laporte's 90K will be dwarfed. Reality check: Twitter is much bigger than Scoble. - Mohamed J

@Mohamed J I would much rather have scoble who is real on Twitter than some PR person for a celebrity. - Michael McGimpsey from twhirl

MichaelMG: I haven't seen the suggested users list but @TechCrunch, @aplusk, @the_real_shaq, @mchammer are not run by a PR employee. Plus, Scoble is too noisy for the Twitter newbie (who is most likely not a tech head). - Mohamed J

Leather ♥ Donut - ftw. - kchu

A few questions: 1. Does 'suggested friends' imply impartiality? To me 'suggested' or 'recommended' connotes a subjective opinion while 'popular' or 'top' implies a strict numbers-based ranking. 2. If a service's 'recommended friends' list is created by number of followers and is in itself the most effective way to get more followers, then how can this help but be a feedback loop? How... more... - Kevin Fox

Put a different way: Why do we assume that Twitter should only recommend the most popular people? - Kevin Fox

Isn't this more about one person wanting a different set of criteria for 'eminence' in a list vs a set of criteria decided by another person(s)? Sounds like you should make your own list to your criteria; folk love lists and someone is bound to look at it. Their list, their criteria ... your list, your criteria. - Colin Wheeler

Even when you are on holiday you are causing trouble Mike - Chris Saad

just seems to me that twitter made a selection of accounts that might be of interest to a new user, trying to cover a wide range. Perhaps their criteria are not as ominous as you make it, perhaps they looked at a stream that someone new could feel would be accessible to newbies? - Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)

Pay @biz :) - Josh Lam

@michael arrington HAHAHA!!!!! While I agree with scoble's premise that the list is fundamentally flawed. I do think this whole conversation is very very funny!!! Now has twitter responded with how they are making the list? - Benno

i am convertible to 1 e-token of intangible 'value' in this imaginary perceived point value system of social media numbers - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

& i rate your performance by the # of sounded claps i make @ a given rate per sec w/ respect to the db emitted. right this sec, this is convertible to 1/3rd the popularity rate unit counted in the perceived cumulative total + 1 in regards to the gross popularity total i just made up and substituted from other people's realities assumed to be true. this is my derived perception of social media popularity that may change at any time and may be replaced for another assumption. - sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq

Ah the smell of conspiracy in the morning. - Robin Wauters

I think twitter should replace all the little avatars with Tom from MySpace. - Wes Hoogenboom

Wow this stirred up a lot of shit. I actually have to go with lockergnome, why should we care. This article: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technol... clearly states that the suggestions are staff picks and therefore subjective. The people that sign up and start following the twitter staff picks most likely are going to be annoyed and bored with most of the tweets because they dont know those people and because they werent served with suggestions by interest.. - Kahlil Lechelt

This should be re-named as "pre-selected list", not suggested. Twitter is just trying to quickly increase usage for future monetization. - William Mougayar

if recommend is synonymous of "most followed", then #1: @scoble you say the contrary all day long (followers are pointless) #2: this feature itself is useless since we just need a search engine "by number of followers". I therefore assume that twitter tries/is trying/intends to/ put value other than simply nr of followers. and how can you do this with objective measurable inputs? Finding someone interesting or not is based on your own standpoint. So the feature is controversial per se - Jean-Charles VERDIE

I'd pay 10K to get a profile there, do i twitpic a check in? - sean percival

To market my brand, I'd pay 10k, get put in front of 1m faces, and another mil or 3 over time after this post gets thoroughly read. All this attention is worth quite a bit more than 10k, wouldn't you say. - Zax Stevens

My first thought was that they would sell spots on that list if they hadn't already. Robert's topic is provocative only because Twitter's added a feature that looks so baldly commercial. Not that there's anything wrong with it! - Michael Pilla

Here's a simple test: Go to 2 different Twitter accounts you may have (e.g. personal/business). Check that list. It's the same! So, this isn't a "Recommended list" in the way that FF or APML might do it. It's not related to who you follow/don't follow & what you like. It's just a list that's marketed by Twitter- let's take it as it is. - William Mougayar

"Robert -- did you ask to be removed from this Forbes Web Celeb list? Seems like that was quite a gift: http://www.forbes.com/2007... - Omar Gallaga" So Robert, how about it? Did you pass on the "gift" Forbes made you? - Alexander Kucera

Wow, longest conversation every! - Sweyn Venderbush from twhirl

Omar and Alexander: I didn't pull myself off of the Fortune list because 1. that didn't end up getting me much of anything, certainly not provable. 2. It was a subjective list done by a professional group of editors and it was presented as subjective. 3. it reflected real-life popularity. In fact, one could argue that being high on Twitter and friendfeed follower lists is why I got onto Fortune's list. Before two weeks ago those follower lists had integrity. Today they do not. But no big deal, I'm over it. - Robert Scoble

I didn't see him on the list. - Patricia

This is eerily similar to a high school election. - Oldengrey (Jay)

Twitter has a suggest list? don't remember the last time I used it if ever - Jeff Quinton

Biz Stone - From The LA Times: Twitter co-founder Biz Stone acknowledged that offering “suggested users” wasn’t the ideal solution and suggested that the service might evolve to cater to particular users’ interests. “Right now it’s sort of like staff picks at your local bookstore,” he wrote in an e-mail. - Jim Connolly

Robert: I view the Suggested Users feature on Twitter as a Staff Pick in iTunes. They have no relevance to anything else. It's just what the guy behind the screen wants to pin. I was very sad to read this. I love the idea that the individual user is beginning to rise over traditional mainstream media. It's something I've worked toward for the past 3 years. However, I see this as the death of journalistic integrity. - George Force

Robert: You speak of Twitter's Suggested User feature being corrupt, however, within the same action you lay down egregious accusations. What ever happened to the days of fact checking? You have to keep in mind, no matter what your intentions are, you swing a big stick. Thousands of people are going to read what you say. If you do not intend for something like this to be taken as media, then you need to make clear what your intentions are. - George Force

Everyone has been waging war to try to win the popularity contest, and they've focused so hard on this that they've forgotten the basics. As the paradigm shifts, we are starting to create a high tech sewing circle where the words slander and libel have no meaning. We all need to work a little bit harder to try to remember that there are real people with real emotions on the other end of the wire. - George Force

George: read again. I did NOT lay down ANY accusations. I did not accuse anyone of anything, I just said this creates a situation where we can not be sure how they got on this list. Please read carefully. This feature is corrupt. Why does Ryan Block have 1/10th as many followers today as Veronica? (They used to be about the same). Because Twitter "picked" Veronica to be popular. That's subjective and ruins the integrity of the follower system. - Robert Scoble

George: right. Subjective systems pick stars for weird reasons. Do you pay to get on the iTunes list? I don't know, but given the music industry's past of payola I really wonder. How did the brands get onto Twitter's list? Did they pay? Why Veronica and not Ryan Block? Ryan ran Engadget. He deserves to be on the top of any list too. This system is stupid and lame and not well thought out (which even Twitter admits in the Los Angeles Times this weekend). - Robert Scoble

I understand that you want change on Twitter. I don't blame you for that. But why should they listen to what you have to say? You go onto their platform and out them publicly more than once a day. Twitter doesn't owe anyone but their VC anything. If you hate Twitter so much, then stop using it. It could easily be said that you're giving friendfeed a gift by going to Twitter and talking about friendfeed. Are you receiving a check from friendfeed? - George Force

Your whole argument could then be boiled down to, "Twitter made a poor choice in thinking about their recommended accounts feature and it is poorly thought out." Good thing this was just an FF thread and not a blog post. - coldbrew

There is no reason to say vile things about a service on their platform due to a matter of preference. If you don't like Twitter, stop using it. It's that simple. Twitter works very well for what I need it to do. friendfeed serves another purpose entirely. Twitter does not need to be friendfeed. You said in a different post about how we need to stop focusing on followers and start focusing on who's talking. I would say we need to stop focusing on followers and start focusing on what we're saying. - George Force

George: I do not receive checks or any compensation from friendfeed. I didn't receive any compensation from Twitter when I talked it up a LOT two years ago (my readers got sick of me talking about Twitter all the time back then too). - Robert Scoble

Now I'm going to go watch some guy get kicked in the groin on YouTube! - George Force

coldbrew: who said this is not a blog post? :-) There's no real definition for what a blog is. Friendfeed is blogging. So is Twittering. - Robert Scoble

George: I totally disagree. These are communications platforms and one of their uses IS complaining about how they are built. I used to use the telephone to complain about AT&T too. So there. :-) - Robert Scoble

I'd like to wrap up my opinion about the whole subject in 2 sentences: 1) Who are you to recommend people to me? 2) Recommending people to me means that you know me, that you know what I'm **interested** in. i.e. Every recommendation algorithm that **IGNORES** the user is by definition stupid. - directeur

Jason: I did not make any claim. Go and read it again. This time read it. Don't react emotionally. Read it like a computer compiler would. Parse each word. I will admit I was sensational and stupid. I did NOT call out Techcrunch. I called out Twitter. That's different. I did say that I am not sure how people got on the list. Why did Veronica get on this list and not Ryan Block? You can't explain it. Neither can I. So, that opens up the door to corruption and graft. Perception does matter. - Robert Scoble

The only fault I can find with twitter is that it has created a new breed of egomaniacs. - jcunwired

Because my name was used in Robert's post (and we discussed this ad nauseum on Gillmor Gang) I'd like to weigh in. I know it sounds like sour grapes when I say anything about this. And I suppose some of it is. I did enjoy being at the top of Twitterholic. And there's tangible benefit to it - it gives you cred (some, not a ton). I suppose Twitter leaves me off its recommended list because I'm not always a fan of how Twitter does business. That, in itself, points to a problem with how the list is generated. - Leo Laporte

Why does perception matter? Because you are not even able to unemotionally read a sentence without reading meaning into it. Now, try to read a sentence (like what Twitter is communicating by making Veronica a star and not Ryan Block or not Leo Laporte) and add that same emotionality into it. THAT is what I was trying to point out. - Robert Scoble

I do admit I made that point in a stupid and lame way, though, and for that I'm sorry. But it did get you to engage on this and think about it and for all the hurt feelings this morning THAT is a positive thing. - Robert Scoble

If you don't think number of followers is important, then the "suggested list" is irrelevant. And I think that's what Twitter is saying. "Who cares if Whole Foods is acquiring thousands of unearned followers a day? We just want new users to have someone to follow." My point is that Twitter has immense power to influence the course of Twitter. This simple suggestion list thrusts some users forward for arbitrary and opaque reasons. This is why an open solution is ultimately better for us all. - Leo Laporte

Leo: I prefer to use the words "algorithmic" and "objective" instead of "open" but I get what you're getting at. - Robert Scoble

Look, Robert, I'm not trying to bust you up. I respect you and what you've done for the community. What I'm saying is that "Prove that Techcrunch did not pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list," sounds an awful lot like an accusation. That's it. Hence, the focus on quality. People need to stop a second and think not about WHAT they're saying, but HOW they're saying it. - George Force

@scobleizer That's because you want to preserve Twitter. I don't think _any_ private micro-messaging solution is adequate. It needs to be open, like email. No algorithm is going to make a proprietary solution acceptable in my mind. - Leo Laporte

George: the point is that I don't know what the criteria is. So, you can't prove anything about anything on this list. That causes a perception problem for everyone involved. I know people who WOULD pay to get on this list. Why? At some point thousands of followers will mean money. I used to work for a magazine with 110,000 subscribers that made millions every year. This list ruins integrity of community. It is corruptible. - Robert Scoble

Goodness gracious, folks. I'm in la la land right now and I still understand the point Robert was trying to get across. Pour out the Scoble haterade for two seconds. - Shawn Farner

Leo: ahh, I see what you mean by open. I thought we were just talking about the recommended follower feature. Now that you are talking about the entire system I totally agree. I have on my to do list to take another look at Identi.ca. We should start another thread about whether or not that's the answer and if not, why not. - Robert Scoble

I have to agree with Jason H. Robert, you DID accuse TC of paying off Twitter. You creatively arranged the words to make it look like you are not directly making an accusation, but we can read between the lines. You do have something against TC, but that is your issue to resolve, don't bring it here. Ba a man and either say it out loud and to Arrington's face or shut the hell up about this. If you have a problem with Twitter then bring it against them. Sack up or shut up. Investigate or go home. - Norbert Davis

Robert, I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, and I'm certainly not becoming overwhelmed with emotion. Would you be interested in having a round table with myself and Ben Heckendorn on my podcast? Leo would also be welcome. - George Force

I'm not trying to get ratings or promotion. I'm interested in this subject. - George Force

Norbert: Mike Arrington (founder of Techcrunch and I are friends. I picked Techcrunch because he would get what I was trying to say. He speaks out against corruptible systems elsewhere (like his competition with Demo conference, which companies pay to get on stage). I didn't accuse anyone of anything. I did say that this system raises the perception issue. This is why journalists aren't allowed to own stocks in the companies they cover and why they aren't allowed to take gifts. This is a corruptible system. - Robert Scoble

Scoble could post about the air-land speed of a European Swallow and get "engagement" much like TC and their one-word post, "Twitter." - coldbrew

Twitter needs the cash, good for them. It's about time they found a way to make a little $. Also, I don't think popularity is the best indicator of a friend. @Techcrunch has been good to me, Leo on the other hand...(-; - tarafireball

"And, therefore, Twitter is a witch. Burn Her!" - coldbrew

Spill it, tarafireball. What'd Laporte do? - coldbrew

Its amazing that this topic gets more comments than the ISP/wireless bill, that will affect us all. - Joe K

Here's Arrington's post with 442 comments: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008... - coldbrew

This post wouldn't have gotten nearly the attention with a less incendiary title. Even "I can't prove Techcrunch didn.t..." probably would have blown over quick. - Bruce Lewis

It'd be interesting to see some eye-tracking type analysis on threads like this to see, on average, how many comments people read before commenting themselves. Seems like there's a whole lot of repetition. - Ken Sheppardson

That's not entirely fair, Lewis, I wouldn't continue if I didn't have some assurance that some smart folks would chime in. - coldbrew

There are 256 comments on this post. I guarantee you I'll not be reading them all before I post this. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

Rasheen, it is a summary about how they chose the Knights of the Round Table. Hint: The Black Knight always wins, b/c it is merely a flesh wound no matter what happens :-) - coldbrew

FTR, I read every last comment (like always), sigh. - coldbrew

As someone who moved away from just numbers to quality numbers, it's all a tempest in a teapot to me. I can reevaluate my relationship with either TC or Leo at any time, but the specter of payola makes it feel like 1999 all over again. - Scott Pierce

I am amazed at the level of BS people are spewing here to grind their personal axes - also amazed that some people would take this so personally as an attack when it clearly wasnt an attack on them at all. Robert, in a rush to post like he often is, did not craft his words carefully enough and issued a challenge using incendiary language and referencing a friend (who will survive the debate clearly). This sort of thread is what makes Andrew Keen squeal with delight... - Chris Heuer

Q1: is twitter adopting a pay to play model for being featured anywhere on its site? Q2: Will the user community (especially new signups) be better off if they are open about how they are doing it? NO DOUBT - FAIR DISCLOSURE ALA ADVERTORIAL Q3 Does this sort of advertising (and the sort that has GaryVee using adsense to promote his twitter account) have a positive or negative impact on folks or does it matter at all? does this use of money as power to get attention take away from open/meritocratic ideals? - Chris Heuer

one disclosure piece - last week I contacted the folks behind twitter counter to see if we (aka me for Social Media Club) could buy a 'follow us' ad on their top 100 page - as the noise gets louder, we need better ways for getting noticed. http://twitter.com/socialm... was in the top 100 there for several months until recently being kicked off list by hollywood celebtrities joining conversation - Q4 should celebrities and companies be on separate lists - should we have user 'types' to differenentiate - Chris Heuer

I own twegomaniacs.com. I will gladly accept $10,000 from anyone who wishes to be placed on that list :) - jcunwired

How is this at all different from Google Reader's suggested content bundles, or the defaults that are included on start pages (some of which actually do pay to be there). Frankly, I'd have no problem if Twitter did charge for these spots, though I'm confident they haven't done so thus far. People are clearly willing to pay (see twittercounter) ... it's a good biz model - Adam Ostrow

Robert, the fact that you claim over and over again that you didn't make any claims, makes it even worse. The implication is there, even if you didn't mean to suggest it. A lot of people read that implication as an assertion. You are a polarizing person, and people aren't going to be carefully parsing your words anymore. You must realize this by now, and if you don't recognize this passive aggressive aspect of your nature, then that is the real issue here. - Joost Schuur

Why does it even matter if Twitter is 'broken' just because they don't have a perfect way to recommend followers at a time when they've just started opening up to non techies? Twitter suggestions have been available for a few weeks now. Can't we just let the system try and balance itself out for a while, before we freak out? Twitter is going to improve the system on their end, and some... more... - Joost Schuur

Joost: OK. It was a lame and stupid way to make a point but I think we are all adults here and everyone can see I wasn't asserting that corruption had already taken place. I just wanted to point out that this is a corruptible system that is rewarding significant gifts to some people in the community. - Robert Scoble

It doesn't matter that Ryan Block has 13,000 and Veronica has 110,000. You are right. Onward! - Robert Scoble

FWIW, I follow you, and everyone else on my list, because you post what I find to be interesting content. Leo is also there, Techcrunch is not, Veronica is not. Isn't it more important to have a fan base that is fascinated by the work you do than the random choosing of an arbitrary list that few people take seriously? I'm not a fan of suggestions in this regard anyway, not unless there is a compelling reason why I might be interested, and Twitter doesn't provide it, so its useless to me. No big deal. - jcunwired

Leo shouldn't be on that list. He trashes Twitter. I wouldn't list him if he trashed my company all the time. - PC Easy from twhirl

PC Easy: so not being on this list is punishment for bad behavior. Got it. That is why I hate subjective lists. - Robert Scoble

Haha, we run mrtweet. We were #5 two weeks ago, and we were absolutely shocked by the massive increase in numbers by everyone. It is pretty puzzling for us - we are pretty sure we did not get recommended at all, since our growth remains very consistent. Oh well. ;) - ming yeow

This is why the top Twitterer lists have ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE ANYMORE. I think Twitter really screwed up by using the suggested users. - Bill Romanos

@ Robert: A) According to Merriam-Webster a gift is "something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation". So no, since you call being on Twitters recomendation list a gift, Veronica did not earn it neither did TechCruch and neither did Leo. B) Your statement "Prove that Techcrunch did not pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list." sure sounds like an accusation of coruption. C) Your ranting is really only damaging your reputation and FF by association. - ChiliMac

Who even uses this feature anyway? I know I don't. I'm only going to follow people I find from other people I follow. That way I'm getting people with similar interests not what Twitter or FriendFeed THINK I might like to follow. PS. I just checked out my suggested user list and TechCruch wasn't on there. Maybe because I already follow him. But, in that case, if Robert knows he's on there doesn't that mean Robert doesn't follow him? - ChiliMac

ChiliMac: Re "Who even uses this feature anyway?" Every new Twitter user sees this list. After you sign up, you're first asked if you want to try to import friends from another service (i.e. Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo mail, etc.) The next screen is 20 users selected from an apparently larger (~100ish?) list --with all 20 checked--and a big "Finish" button. Following everyone in the random(?) group of 20 is the default for new users. - Ken Sheppardson

I think Roberts problem is not that they implemented this feature but that the way it has been implemented. If the selection method was clearly paid or algorithm based then I don't think too many people would have a problem with it. It would appear at the moment that the criteria is just "people that I think are good". That is open to abuse as it has a bearing on the influence certain... more... - Anton Mannering from twhirl

I bet $10 you are mentally handicapped :D - coldbrew

Wow, I think you can get posted in Who's Who for only $35. Who cares? - Todd Kulick

Well, it's either pay up or join the train of Twitter users who wave through the system and are fast approaching 40,000 followers even though you've never heard of them, nor have they ever added anything of value to your life. Coercion is a bitch. - matt

gila kuasa, gila nama... (power crazy, name crazy!) - Pajama Domain

How do I get on this list? I have all this money that Obama gave me to spend to stimulate the economy. Can I stimulate Twitter's economy? Where do I mail the check? - Stephen Antonucci

This is a provocative post, Robert. iJustine did give Evan cupcakes. I remember their public exchange and acknowledgment. Was that a coerced coincidence or just innocent cavity propagation? I think the real power of the "suggested" followers "scam" is choosing high profile folks while including the lesser folks you have been calling out. The nobodies who are now the most popular proves... more... - David W. Boles

There are a lot of comments, so if this is duplicating what someone else said - so sorry :) If you want a great way to get a REAL recommended list, head over to HubSpot's Twitter Grader - get graded and there will be a recommended list below. - Mitch Canter

lolololol - "Joey"

Not trying to bash anyone, but I'm curious as to why people think that twitter is under any obligation to make their free service "open". Twitter seems to be saying that they reject the meaning of twitter follower counts as defined by others. Twitter's ultimate goal, I think, isn't to be a public service so much as to be a profitable company. "Their house, their rules" so to speak. If people want an open system, then they would probably prefer services like those that Leo Laporte proposes. - James Brodman

James: For me it sorta boils down to a monopoly power argument. What's wrong with Twitter not being open (and thereby controlling the "micromessaging" market/protocol) is the same thing that's wrong with AT&T controlling the phone service market or Microsoft controlling the operating system market. - Ken Sheppardson

Robert, by your metric, wouldn't any celebrity (tech geek or otherwise) also have an unfair (and unmeritorious) advantage in getting followers? Thus, having unfair influence? Veronica, you did get a gift. However, I am not sure you can earn a gift. - Rob McNealy

"promotional consideration" disclaimers are standard practice in TV game shows. Why not on Twitter? - Michael Markman

Why $10,000? Do you a have a copy of a check or a receipt or some such? - Chuck Baggett

Robin Wauters

The 15 dumbest names for Web 2.0 startups - http://digg.com/tech_ne...

October 13, 2008 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

"Word-of-mouth isn't strictly a web thing :) When you're out on conference or business meetings, you still have to see who you work for or what you're doing, right? Pronouncability matters!" - Robin Wauters

The Next Web Europe: Zee.

Where TF are all European startups at TechCrunch 50? - http://uk.techcrunch.com/2008...

September 9, 2008 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Dave Martin, Zack Brandit, Steven Cains and 13 other people liked this

OK, so either a lot of European startups weren’t deemed good enough to enter TechCrunch 50, or there were not enough judges who are inclined to EU startups, or Europe is just not producing enough quality startups. Whatever the reason, the number of Europeans at TechCrunch 50 is - for a region that encompasses about 300 million people - relatively thin on the ground and I am trying to determine quite why this is. (Then again, maybe the fairly high price of the ticket put a lot of people off coming?) - Zee. from Bookmarklet

33 more comments

Maybe European startups just don't buy into the TC50/Demo hype... - Johannes Kleske

I don't know Johannes, I think any European startup would be delighted to be presenting in front of the judges they have. It really is a pretty impressive crowd. - Zee.

a better question would be, where is the european equiv of TC50 held in a european country? why don't we plan our own? there's no point in harping on about not being invited! - alphaxion

the european startups will be well represented at LeWeb I promise! - Loic Le Meur

@Alphaxion agreed, we should & will. LeWeb is definitely up there although obviously not identical in format. However, TC50 is an international startup event and should be wide open to anyone from anywhere. You're right though, judging by the way some of the judges speak...you'd think some had never been out of SV. - Zee.

@zee I'm pretty sure quite a few have a mental boundries at SV.. but something that is immediately clear from the years of following blogs etc that the americans have a far far more developed tech social and events scene than anywhere in europe. I would LOVE to change that but I can never find people to get on board of anything I try to organise. - alphaxion

Also note that we're trying to accomplish sth similar with Plugg - http://plugg.eu - Robin Wauters

Pleasure to meet you Robin . What you've done so far is inspiring. - Zee.

@zee what about the VC and PE landscape in europe? - Naor Mark

7 at DEMO, not huge, but not too bad either. - Duncan Riley

@Naor it's a long drawn out process here in the UK & considering the current economic climate in the UK at least it's pretty dire. Hopefully that will change within a year. - Zee.

7 isn't bad to be fair - are we including Israel there Duncan? - Zee.

because many of them never even look in that direction and when they do totally underestimate the effort going into this. then for many funding to even go there is not available and further, again, if non english as native language, many find it difficult to speak english well enough. and, of course, there are 'american' expactations to be fullfilled from the audience and most likely the jury as in limited mindset of what works and what not. a lot of hen-egg problems. - Nicole Simon

the major conferences with startup participation plus special ones like plugg and startup.eu help a bit on they way but even there you can ask the same question for example where are the german startups in the eu-competion. reason? see above, rinse and repeat. we are working on it. ;) - Nicole Simon

@zee well i guess it explains it, a strong pre-seed and seed funding will cultivate emergence of startups etc. (might be an opp. here. i wonder) - Naor Mark

Zee, my bad, I didn't look at the break down, just the Europe figure. I know Israel was over represented at TC50, presuming the same for DEMO I guess - Duncan Riley

Israel is far more entrepreneurial than Europe is, in my observation. The stuff that's cooking over there is pretty interesting and the culture reminds me of Silicon Valley. - Robert Scoble

there are a couple of startup/seed funding setups emerging...obviously there's seedcamp, yEurope (which i don't know much about) and a soon to launch "Team Europe" (teameurope.net) - Zee.

@Robert i realise it's true, but it's gutting to here. I haven't been out to Israel, but would love to figure out why that is the case there more so than the Europe. - Zee.

I mean London does have it's fair share of startups but nothing quite as eclectic as Israel. Ireland has it's fair share but I see too many of their startups just sticking to their local market rather than making a splash abroad. - Zee.

Zee: culture. The Israelis have had the shit kicked out of them in the recent past. Also, their geeks are held in place by that culture. Europe's geeks often leave to start stuff elsewhere. Also, failure is accepted in Israel, it isn't in Europe. There are other reasons too, entire books have been written on the topic. - Robert Scoble

there's an israeli company on the front of DPI development.. scary system that can identify application streams on a per user level! - alphaxion

Yeah, definitely valid points - i guess the question is what can we do about it on this end. - Zee.

Zee: celebrate your geeks. :-) I'll be at LeWeb3 and Davos's World Economic Forum (I'm helping submit/judge startups for that, too, so if you know of cool ones, let me know). - Robert Scoble

@zee first of all you're invited to visit us :) seconds i agree with @scoble it's more then a lot og geeks running around - we have a lot of preseed/seed capital which are willing to take high risks, while for round A or B companies are looking at the silicon valley, the key is that if you plant enough seeds, you'll get to see 1, 2, 5% of them growing into something - Naor Mark

@robert this is something I have been lamenting for a loooong time.. all too often I'm the only one out of my meatspace friends that is even aware of much of this type of tech scene :( - alphaxion

@Robert, will definitely do. Also, so you're definitely doing LeWeb now? @Naor, sounds like startup paradise... - Zee.

It's definitely a cultural thing, although I get the feeling we're slowly moving to a more entrepreneurial spirit all over Europa. I'm particularly interested in Eastern Europe, where taking risks seems to be much more acceptable socially. - Robin Wauters

I'd agree with you Robin - I think the main issue there though is access to serous funding is limited. So you need strong connections with either wester europe and/or the US (which whether we like or not, rarely look to invest out of their homeland) - Zee.

Zee: yeah, I think Maryam is coming to Paris too. - Robert Scoble

Fantastic, drinks/lunch on me. - Zee.

I read that as drunks and links >.< - alphaxion

i just had a chat with my partner about going to LeWeb ..hmmmm.. - Naor Mark

DO IT. - Zee.

Robin Wauters

Bill Gates Retirement Party: Why I Still Use Windows Despite the Peer Pressure - http://gizmodo.com/5018985...

June 26, 2008 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

This is exactly what I wanted to write down once - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters

Most Spam Sites Tied to a Handful of Registrars - Security Fix - http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securit...

May 20, 2008 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

New research suggests that more than three quarters of all Web sites advertised through spam are clustered at just 10 domain name registrars. - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters

VeriSign ups cost of .com, .net domains second year in a row - http://arstechnica.com/news...

March 29, 2008 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

Bastards - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters

Matt Rechenburg, Project Manager at OpenQRM on Virtualization (Video Interview ) | Virtualization.com - http://virtualization.com/video-a...

February 24, 2008 from StumbleUpon - Comment - Like - Share

This interview was recorded at the Profoss 2008 event on Virtualisation and features Matt Rechenburg, Project Manager at openQRM, interviewed by Toon Vanagt about what he's doing and how he looks at the future of virtualization. - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters

Frank Kohler, Virtualization Project Manager at Suse|Novell (Video Interview) | Virtualization.com - http://virtualization.com/video-a...

February 24, 2008 from StumbleUpon - Comment - Like - Share

This interview was recorded at the Profoss 2008 event on Virtualisation and features Frank Kohler, Virtualization Project Manager at Suse (Novell) being interviewed by Toon Vanagt on what he saw his clients do with virtualization technology and how you can avoid making those mistakes. Shortly after the interview, Frank was hired by XenSource (Citrix). - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters

Werner Fischer, Developer at Thomas-Krenn.AG on OpenVZ and High Availibily in Virtualization (Video Interview) | Virtualization.com - http://virtualization.com/video-a...

February 24, 2008 from StumbleUpon - Comment - Like - Share

This interview was recorded at the Profoss 2008 event on Virtualisation and features Werner Fischer, Developer at Thomas-Krenn.AG being interviewed by Toon Vanagt on OpenVZ, high availability and virtualization in general. - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters

Video: Interview with John Abbott, Chief Analyst &Research Director at The 451 Group | Virtualization.com - http://virtualization.com/video-a...

February 24, 2008 from StumbleUpon - Comment - Like - Share

This interview was recorded at the Profoss 2008 event on Virtualisation and features John Abbott, Chief Analyst & Research Director at The 451 Group. - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters

Tarry Singh, Real-time Analyst at Avastu Research (Video Interview) | Virtualization.com - http://virtualization.com/video-a...

February 24, 2008 from StumbleUpon - Comment - Like - Share

This interview was recorded at the Profoss 2008 event on Virtualisation and features Tarry Singh, Real-time Analyst at Avastu Research being interviewed by Toon Vanagt on what's happening in the virtualization industry. - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters

blognation Belgium & Blog Archive & Artintimity Takes User-Generated Content To Strange Places - http://be.blognation.com/2007...

September 11, 2007 from StumbleUpon - Comment - Like - Share

Artintimity is a collaborative, artistic and original photoblog project where people from all horizons express what they are thinking about...while sitting alone in a toilet (one of the few places in the world where people are really alone with themselves). - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters

blognation Belgium & Blog Archive & L&8217;OrÃ©al Sues eBay For Selling Fake Bottles Of Perfume - http://be.blognation.com/2007...

September 10, 2007 from StumbleUpon - Comment - Like - Share

French cosmetics giant L'Oréal is suing eBay in 5 European countries (Belgium, France, Germany, UK and Spain) for selling counterfeit bottles of perfume. L'Oréal claims to have tried reaching a "gentlemen's agreement" with eBay to no avail. - Robin Wauters

Robin Wauters › Comments