they play their part... only to see no change, they get pissed off and leave... I have had two people say they got pissed off with being ignored... so it got me thinking, those of you who bash these people and say.. "well you gotta play ya part"... what do YOU do to help them? NOTHING... ? Why not actually like their stuff and comment, change their results a bit? - Rob Sellen :o)

Kind of ironic that...No-one have any thoughts on this, or how we can minimise people feeling ignored? I tried to tell the two who left to maybe stick with it a bit longer, they tried... no change, great..makes me feel like an idiot.. I won't do it again for that reason... so I am ASKING you lot.. what can we ALL do about it? - Rob Sellen :o)

Rob, there isn't anything to do about it. Sometimes people post things when I'm not on the computer, or when I'm working, or when I'm asleep. I don't see them unless they get bumped back up, and I don't go looking for them when I wake up in the morning. I gave up trying to read everything in my FriendFeed a long time ago... - FFing Enigma

Yeah I can understand that Tina, that's true of all of us no doubt, but then you have to admit, there has to be some truth in this else they wouldn't say it... I have done it before as you know. One person can post a crap one word post and get a ton of results, others just feel they waste their time here... and I can see why they say it. it annoys me when people bash them for saying so, yet everything else they posted got ignored by those bashing them... tell me that don't happen... cos I have seen it. - Rob Sellen :o)

At that point, it's a matter of interest. As an example: if someone posts only about Twitter, Facebook, Social Media, ComicCon, and Mashable then I'm not going to engage on their content because it's not of interest to me. When that same person makes a post about FriendFeed I *do* engage on it because FriendFeed *is* of interest to me. I can't and won't engage on other people's content just to make them feel better. - FFing Enigma

No one expects that to happen, surely... but you are of many who do see the post made.. some people just can't spend the same sort of time on here say as yourself does, so for them it may be impossible to participate on here to the level it's worth doing, IE where results happen. So, are they really just wasting their time here? They say yes... sadly. - Rob Sellen :o)

In a way what you said about them posting about friendfeed.. they may post complaining about it, and yes people will comment on it, cos it's about friendfeed, but then they STILL say.. you gotta play your part etc... and yet the bashers still ignore everything else they say... a no win situation for them. It's hypocritical of the bashers really... - Rob Sellen :o)

What about groups? That's a good way to start and if you post something interesting you get a response and then you take it from there. I don't go back and read stuff I miss when I'm not here but I do check my favourite groups. - M F

Rob, it depends on why someone is here: are they here to engage in conversation, or to engage in conversation *specifically* on the material that they themselves post? If all you want is to engage in conversation that's super easy to do: create a search to find what you like and jump into the conversation. I have a search for economics discussions http://friendfeed.com/search... so I can always find something to chat about if I want or need to. However, if my goal is to engage in conversations *specifically* on the items I post them I have to 1) have followers and 2) post material my followers will want to engage with. If someone isn't willing to do what it takes to gain followers and isn't willing to post content those followers want to engage with, I can't control that. - FFing Enigma

Rob, I don't think it's about being savvy, I think it's about not being selfish. Only wanting to engage on the content you personally post without engaging on the content around you is, in a way, selfish. That person wants to reap the *benefits* of being connected with thousands of people (i.e. tons of comments, likes, and click-thrus) without actually *being connecting*. It turns "social media" into "all about me or what I post media". - FFing Enigma

My comment vanished?? wtf? ah well... What I mean is... they will never even bother trying to learn to use it well, simply because initial results put them right off... why bother spending time learning more when they feel they have been ignored with what they already put into it? - Rob Sellen :o)

So you're proposing people go like and comment on posts that don't interest them just to "help" someone out? No, thanks. I don't like and comment on things for numbers or political reasons like that. I like and comment on things I enjoy, appreciate, or want to share with others. If you're not posting content that I like, you're not getting my likes or comments, regardless of who you are. - Rochelle

Considering that there are groups about more or less any subject I find it hard to think what they might be posting about. Secondly I think if they want to get results without putting the effort they are just asking too much, you can only meet people half way. - M F

NO.. I am saying DON'T bash them when they complain IF you are ignoring everything else they say... THAT is bullying. Instead SHOW them , help them... I bet you agree with this... people tend to take more interest when they get a little help? no? - Rob Sellen :o)

If they post stuff that gets ignored, the right people are not following them or in a position to see their content. If they are not satisfied with the content they see, they are following the wrong people. Both situations are remedied by making an effort to find stuff interesting to them and, in turn, connect with those people who share their interests. If the focus is on whether people are liking/commenting items you post, you will fail miserably in the beginning because you haven't even built a network yet. I WILL NOT engage with content that I don't find interesting just to help someone feel good about themselves. That turns FF into a useless popularity contest. - Rah-PM 2012

How apropos http://friendfeed.com/live4so... - Rah-PM 2012

Ok.. so basically I say to the two who left.. tough shit, you were boring?? - Rob Sellen :o)

Holden EXACTLY... ;o) - Rob Sellen :o)

"....the right people are not following them or in a position to see their content." This means engaging with the community and building a network of people that are interested. Connecting with people on FF is no harder than any other network. I 'm not sure why we keep having these discussions. When you join Twitter, are you immediately endowed with thousands of followers to RT your stuff? You have to do some work to get noticed. FF provides all the tools you need. Rooms, realtime search, etc. - Rah-PM 2012

Holden, I am very welcoming to newcomers. I have a filter set up to show me all posts from people who post that they are new to FriendFeed. I take time every single day to read those posts, comment on them, and suggest help to newbies. - Rochelle

No Rob, you tell them that a 5% response rate is damn good for a FF post and 5% of only 20 followers is nothing (well, it's 1 technically but you get my point). If they don't have more followers they won't get interaction. The way to get more followers is to get people interested in what you say. People get interested in what you say when they read interesting comments from you (since they aren't following you yet and don't see what you post). - FFing Enigma

Right.. NOW we are getting somewhere... Rah... but how will you even know what's engaging untill you try? These try... and get ignored, yet complain and get BULLIED to the point of leaving? - Rob Sellen :o)

How can you welcome new people if you don't know who they are? No matter what the goal, they will need to make the effort to comment/like stuff before anyone will ever notice them. I have also seen many times where current users bring their friends into FF and make an announcement about it. That gives them a head start. - Rah-PM 2012

@Holden: I can't DM newbies when they're not subscribed to me. - FFing Enigma

Tina... maybe some of these have no idea how to use stats whatever, they just want to be accepted and not ignored... the point is.. people are QUICK to attck people for complaining.. yet ignore everything else that person says? why bash them? - Rob Sellen :o)

Holden, what do you propose the FF team does? I think Kol and I (and a few others) are doing a great job of capturing all newbies who post that are new and offering help, links, etc. We can't help if they don't post looking for it. - Rochelle

Exactly, Tina. Also, uhm. Many of us DID jump in and do it all by ourselves. The community had to start from nothing at some point, right? :) - Rah-PM 2012

It doesn't bother me anymore, I find that people who look online for attention and popularity on sites like these really have social issues, just my opinion. - orionstarr

Of course we can expect newbies to do it themselves: we all did it ourselves. I'm not saying the HAVE to, just that it is entirely possible and feasible to become an engaging FFer doing it yourself. There is only so much I can do: I have a search for new people and try to welcome them, I try to point them to the Beginners room, I welcome everyone I can. I can't do it for you (or them); if someone chooses to not take the advice that they've been given (read: we tell them the key to success is engaging on other content and they choose to not do so), how am I (or we) to blame for that? - FFing Enigma

Rochelle.. I thought you blocked me? anyway.... maybe a welcome message when people sign up would be good, with a link to the relevant groups to help them? - Rob Sellen :o)

Rob, the only people I have ever blocked on FriendFeed are blatant spam accounts which FF deletes anyway. I have no idea why you thought otherwise. - Rochelle

Did I say you were to blame for that? No.. I did say though and it STILL stands... people are quick to bash those who complain, yet their complaint IS a valid one from their point.... so WHY bash them...unless you are a bully? - Rob Sellen :o)

This is just like any social setting. You can't walk in a bar and cry that nobody is paying attention to you without getting some stink eye. It's the same here. Sometimes, there's nothing a person can do. People will just not like the person and that's just too bad for them. - Rodfather

The situation is like this. You go to a party. You wave at a couple of people, throw a nod here and there, maybe have a drink and some pretzels. Then, you leave and complain about how the party sucked. You have to engage for anyone to notice you. (LMFAO...great minds) - Rah-PM 2012

Rob, what Kol and I post to all newbies is something along the lines of "Welcome to FF, let us know if you need help" and a link to the FF Beginners room. We also answer any specific questions at that time. The most common are about importing services and finding their friends. - Rochelle

I think it comes down to the basics of online socialization, if you engage someone on their front and says something insightful and valuable, they'll follow you back to your content and begin engaging you there. You have to put the time in before you're going to be given the viewing time of other people. I know I have some good stuff that gets passed by but I don't care because what's going around me is why I'm here. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

Rochelle.. Ok, my mistake., no worries. blocked by a few people here, not that it matters to me that much. ;o) - Rob Sellen :o)

Rodfather... come on.. some of these people have been here MONTHS.... - Rob Sellen :o)

You seem pretty popular rob! what's the issue here? look at my feed, dead! - orionstarr

Length of time in being here doesn't mean anything. - Rah-PM 2012

Orion... I don't think I am actually, but nevertheless I DO TRY to play a part here. :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

Rob, by saying that we're attacking people when they complain that is blaming us. Why? Because we're not attacking (at least, I'm not): I'm telling them how I got my foothold on FriendFeed. Again. And again. And still yet again. I do my best to repeat this information kindly and good naturedly, and (almost) invariably the people receiving the information choose to not put it into practice. Why bother asking for advice if you're simply going to look at me and say "No, you're wrong" (and I mean this as the general you, not you personally Rob). - FFing Enigma

Like I said, this is just like any other social setting. Just because someone has been around longer doesn't mean people should like the person any more. If anything, they just get more annoying to the crowd. - Rodfather

No Rah... but it's not like they JUST got to a party as Rodfather said... some have tried, and still feel "left out" in a sense... I can see their point, hopefully this thread helps them or others, I don't know... - Rob Sellen :o)

FF needs to write a 101 book for basic users. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

James, it's called the FF Beginners Group. - Rochelle

Tina... it certainly looks like bashing to me.... you can't deny it happens, you can't deny that complainers BIGGEST thread is that complaint...cos everyone jumped on them... - Rob Sellen :o)

By the way, your off facebook now wtf! lol - orionstarr

Rochelle, I've heard of it but never checked it out. I just jumped in and kept running. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

Tina... want to make this clear I DO NOT see YOU as one of those that bash ;o) (In fact I'd say you were probably one of those who help more than most) - Rob Sellen :o)

Orion.. I am still there...just trimmed it all down ;o) sorry about that mate. ;o) - Rob Sellen :o)

People get jumped on because their complaints are often unfounded and uninformed based on their narrow view of FriendFeed (which is different and unique to each individual). This results in some users becoming annoyed at yet another n00b making sweeping generalizations about the service as a whole. Also, this complaint post is usually the first item any of us has really seen from that user :) - Rah-PM 2012

Wrong..IMO I think they complain because of their own experience of the place.. - Rob Sellen :o)

Rah.. though I agree with that last bit lol.. maybe it is the first post that people see.. lol ;o) - Rob Sellen :o)

You trimmed me away! - orionstarr

Rob, we just said the same thing. Holden, I don't bash them, but I see why some get irritated and I do see many offer help rather than bashing. I'm just putting it out there as to why they might get bashed by some users. It seems like every day some user is complaining when they haven't even reached out to the community for help in the first place. - Rah-PM 2012

But the bashing HAS to stop... It reflects badly on everyone here... - Rob Sellen :o)

i like everything i truely like, i comment where appropiate, and I'm sorry if ppl feel left out after posting and not getting replies, but its a two street. eyes up, chin down, and keep on working at it, peeps, :( (ps no need to listen to me, rarely do i get responses, and it just reminds me who i'm doing my posting for, really, myself, :) - chaz2b

Just like real life, I'm not going to waste my time on whiny ass titty babies. Instead, I'll interact with cool, friendly peeps. - Rodfather

The bashing must stop! Call your congress! - orionstarr

1UP Rod. - Rochelle

Rodfather.... well you jumped in here didn't ya? You will bash them tho? ok... nice. - Rob Sellen :o)

Rob... why is Oasis such assholes? I am asking you cause they are the best band over there according to them.. I saw a live show on tv the other day from them.. they actually seem pretty boring! - orionstarr

It's a fact. I'm not going to waste my time on whiners. I'm not going to bash them. They'll simply be ignored. - Rodfather

After looking at the Beginners Group I think a little introductory primer would be a good thing, with tips on finding new people in areas you enjoy, how to manage the different functions, advice on setting up lists(maybe), and also some advice on how to interact with other on the service. This would be great if it was presented to you pre-SUL or emailed, that way you could look around and get an understanding of the service. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

Why does FriendFeed have to hand-hold new users? Is there hand-holding on Facebook? What about Twitter? I don't understand why the community here is expected to babysit people who just don't get it. FriendFeed is so damn basic. - Rah-PM 2012

Uhm. Where? - Rah-PM 2012

I'm not bashing anybody. I'm expressing my opinion and explaining how I think it is. That's all - Rodfather

If someone moved into my neighborhood and asked for advice about where to find a grocery store, where the post office was located, etc., I'd be happy to help them. If, after 6 months in the neighborhood, they were whining that the grocery store sucked and where else could they go and why don't they build a better grocery store and why does this one suck so much, I'd be less inclined to be helpful. Same goes for here. - Rochelle

Believe it when I see it Rod... I seen you bash people.. lol.. you done it to me! ok.. bugger off then if you can't contribute sense to it... - Rob Sellen :o)

Rochelle, I think we should at least give them a map. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

James, sure. And if they complain about the content of the map? I mean, how much are we expected to do? - Rochelle

The Map --> http://friendfeed.com/about... - Rah-PM 2012

Yeah a map of sorts sounds good. :o) at least we can all have something universal to point the new users to... but they ought get it upon signing up. :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

Have any of you signed up recently? I could swear FF walks you through picking suggested people to follow etc. - Rah-PM 2012

Rah, it does. - Rochelle

Rochelle, I don't think we should do much more. Rah, Friendfeed needs a better map than that it doesn't get into searching for users that you may enjoy. Friendfeed should promote the map and the travel service (Beginner's Group) up front. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

Even if the suggested user lists sucks, it's a starting place. You get the idea of how to add people, get to see some content, etc. You can tailor it to your own interests after that. - Rochelle

++holden - Jimminy, CoG of FF

Now you're telling me to bugger off because you don't understand my opinions? Hah ok. Whatever. I'm gone. - Rodfather

Wish I could stay but have to run to work, have fun working on the problem of making FF more mainstream. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

No.. I am saying you are a hypocrite Rod. :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

For the record, I wasn't bashing you for being a noob whiner. It was already beyond that point. I was bashing you for being an asshole to other people. - Rodfather

here or the post ages ago? I wasn't being an asshole... thank you.. it was PURE bullying.. and YOU jumped in... for the record. And I am not a noob... shows how little you know about me... you assume.. i KNOW you are a bully.. for the record. Ain't arguing with you here either.. you said you were out of this thread.... - Rob Sellen :o)

Not this thread. It was a while ago. Sorry, but I'm not going to be called a hypocrite without saying something. - Rodfather

but you are.... sorry, you proved that to me thanks. - Rob Sellen :o)

Nuh uh - Rodfather

A liar too? ok... - Rob Sellen :o)

are you subbed to me Rodfather? - Rob Sellen :o)

Dude you got major issues I must say, no offense but do you just sit on the computer or online all the time and gripe about getting attention? no wonder you got deleted from faceshit, wow! LOL - orionstarr