July, 31 2008: Google Tech Talks. re: Security implications and visions moving forward in consumer driven B2C and B2B markets (Currently running in background while surfing... nothing new, just reinforcement) - Mona N.
The problem is that Enterprise software is asstastic so that consultants / trainers / programmers have job security. It's a policy inherent in the system. It doesn't need to be friendly. If Enterprise apps need friendlier interfaces, and consumer apps need better security modeling - it's heading to the middle. - l0ckergn0me
But where is the line, that would please all parties involved? Sooner or later, this market is going to start resembling the Health Care business model. The question is, how do we or can we (as consumers) prevent that? - Mona N.
Well, it's like the presenter said, people are using "these apps" already - outside of an enterprise environment. That's how it changes - not from decisions handed down from on high, but from a groundswell of support from below. - l0ckergn0me
Right, so how would you propose 'spreading the word' per se, to make the consumer manipulate the flow of the B2C market? - Mona N.
It has to be organic - and that's where we have to be patient. You can't force change down anybody's throats. Not to beat a dead horse (and believe me, mine is just about as dead as dead can be), but look at the iPhone and how Apple is trying to stick its design-centric foot in an overtly-utilitarian arena. Spreading the word comes from using and sharing and talking and learning and... youth. Tomorrow's workforce is not going to put up with government "cheese" when they've been used to eating caviar. - l0ckergn0me
Hell, I wouldn't even *TOUCH* Lotus Notes back in 2000 - despite it being the groupware app for TechTV in the day. I didn't care, as a user, how powerful the backend was - I've always been a software experience connoisseur. Most people, however, are not. They're used to shit, even on their home desktop (Windows - HELLO?!). As their home experiences evolve, so will their expectations - but it takes time. As more apps move to the Web, the more likely enterprise will be FORCED to change. It's a slow crawl... - l0ckergn0me
Ya, but no one gives a crap. People dont' care about prevention, it's all about b*tching about it after the fact.. History keeps repeating itself. Look at Apple. It's slowly moving towards the Microsoft monopoly pattern and no one cares.Heck, we're contributing by labeling ourselves "early adopters" or "that's Apple" and excusing them for releasing unreliable products. - Mona N.
IT systems should be top-down at the server end, bottom up on the client end. Microsoft is/has been making a HUGE mistake with this by not releasing a full featured Outlook for OS X. But ActiveSync/Exchange OTA is on a TON of different mobile devices, and I'm starting to question (but not yet abandon) my BlackBerry for the new Treo (at least for my day job). Enterprises succeed by standardizing at the top, but productivity gets maximized when users at the other end can use what makes them comfortable. - Andrew Feinberg
I'm certainly not excusing Apple about the clusterfuck known as iPhone OS 2.0 (and you know that), but most people are used to blaming themselves - and turning to someone else to help them. "I'm helpless! The software doesn't work! I suck!" And sometimes software is made to make people feel helpless, confused, etc. - this ethos is replete throughout many enterprise-level apps. If software requires training, it should be taken out in the back and shot. We're not early adopters, we're tastemakers. - l0ckergn0me
*waiting for enterprise software apologists to chime in, but they seem to be (a) not on FriendFeed, (b) doing something else this weekend since working with software is likely a job and not a passion* - l0ckergn0me
Andrew: But we (the consumers) haven't had the choices we currently do. The market is shifting so the power can lie in the consumer's hands. Hence, corporations we would have NEVER expected, turning over their source codes. The US mobile market is finally catching up to the rest of the world, and we see how huge of an impact this country has, since the rest of the world is scrambling. ie: Nokia and Symbian merger. We're at a brink of a HUGE technical power shift so IMHO, it's imperative more than ever, for - Mona N.
consumers to take charge... There's no crucial time than NOW, but it's maddening to see no one cares. - Mona N.
You can't make someone care, Mona - they either do, or don't. And the last thing they're likely to "care" about is the software they MUST USE at work. How do we get them to care? We give them comparisons, and that (as you so rightfully pointed out) is exactly what's happening in the marketplace outside the enterprise today. The consumers need more, better, RELEVANT tools. How do you know something sucks? When you find that something else is better. PalmOS < WinMo. WinMo < iPhone. - l0ckergn0me
@chris: how well does the exchange sync on iPhone work? - Andrew Feinberg
Andrew - Exchange sync on the iPhone works astoundingly well. Painless, from setup to usage. It's a *FANTASTIC* user experience that makes the complexity of Exchange *INVISIBLE* to the average user. It doesn't hand me a Swiss Army knife with all the blades extended. Of course, the rest of the iPhone 2.0 OS has been just about anything but painful for me. Ironic? - l0ckergn0me
hmmmm...i'm still hung up keyboard + battery life. Can I have more than one exchange account at once? That'd be a killer implementation for me. - Andrew Feinberg
Chris: Agreed. Well, with mobile browsing increasing, we're seeing everyday sites becoming more mobile friendly, and companies are experimenting, whether it be using two style sheets (mobile view/desktop view ie: Facebook) or redirecting (friendfeed.com/iphone) or plain and simply overhauling (delicio.us).... IMO, sites and services are experimenting, hence my need and sense of urgency to act on this NOW and mold - Mona N.
the future market, as opposed to complaining about it down the road. So my question is.. how? How do we get people to utilize the Social Networking median as a way to get people to care. How do we spread the word so people would actually start caring? - Mona N.
That's a beautiful call-to-action. We have to give "them" direction, not the other way around. It may begin with providing open feedback (raw, unfiltered feedback) - like many bloggers, yourself included, do when a new service / software is released to the world. Given the amount of opinions floating throughout FF, I'm quite surprised that Andrew and I are seemingly the only people interested in this topic. - l0ckergn0me
Very interesting. Enjoyed the part about how hard it is for businesses to get to their customers. Heck, it's difficult to even get to your own employees if your organization is large and decentralized. - Kevin
Chris: So basically 1.blogging 2. utilizing Social Networking outlets such as FriendFeed to re-share 3. repeat the cycle?Is that really going to get people to care? I mean this post is the best example. No one is participating aside from the two of us, and folks that aren't even subscribed to me lol. Oh, the irony. - Mona N. via fftogo
I have been wanting to participate in this but YouTube is being a pain and won't let me watch the vid. So maybe I'm off base here, but I think there's an issue, especially in large enterprises, where they don't let their employees use the "cool, new, better" consumer services as a matter of policy for security or productivity reasons. What they don't realize is that people are often a lot more productive when they can use tools they LIKE. I'm not sure how to deal with the security issue, though. - Lindsay Donaghe
My previous employer, who is a child company of Microsoft, had a technical conference for about 200 of it's top architects/developers. There was a surprise keynote given by a guy from Google's business apps division. Some people were receptive, but he got a lot of hammering on security issues, especially the idea of having a client company store their business-critical data on Google's servers which are subject to search and seizure by the US government. - Lindsay Donaghe
Mona - What gets people to care is incentive and relevance. When you share a perspective on an issue they care about, or a tool they never knew they needed, or didn't realize even existed - you're feeding the cycle. It's why Google will always bring you more traffic than just about any source on the Web today - because people are searching for information, assistance, answers. They only care because they have to care - you care because you just DO. Show them how it could be, get them excited about software. - l0ckergn0me
Lindsay: That's exactly why this topic interests me so much. It's not because of Google or security, or even the word conundrum. It's the mere fact that the market IS changing. We (the consumers) can potentially free ourselves from teh constraints of what the corporations dictate as 'our needs', so software and services are catered TO us, as opposed to AT us. That way, we no longer have to hear about NDA this and even they (internally) aren't aware of developments, and supply and demand, and bla bla bla. The market is shifting towards a consumer driven one, and as a consumer, I definitely want to partake in it... FF is one of the BEST examples, since we see FFers (fftogo, Greasemonkey, Noiseriver etc) giving us what we want, and not the other way around... Imagine if it were like this ALL across the board :) - Mona N.
@Chris: It's not that I care just because... It's more so the power we (consumers) potentially have...? Or maybe it's simply, I'm a control freak...? HA - Mona N.
Other thought - What chris said 'bout incentive. I showed Friendfeed to a non-tech friend of mine, and he was totally not impressed. Then I showed him the conversation around Mona being drunk a coupla weeks ago, and then Mona accusing me of not having seen Star Wars, and then Michelle's Brown series of posts, and the reactions to the Earthquake and Mitchell Tsai's shares - - Yuvi
He said 'Dude, these are my kinda people!'. And he's joining up. Had I kept on about powershell and blogging and the A-List - things he doesn't give a shit about, he wouldn't have cared. But, when I showed him things he *already cared about*, but in a new way, it stuck. - Yuvi
Yuvi: That makes perfect sense :) Chris is absolutely correct, in saying no one cares w/out relevance to them. Yuvi, as a blogger, do you include Statbot in your main blog? Why or why not? - Mona N.
@Mona - Branding issues? Statbot isn't supposed to remain just a blog forever - it's supposed to be a pseudo-startup - most of the benefits, none of the risks, slower than a snail's pace. I could call it a hobby website, but pseudo-startup is cooler-sounding :P - Yuvi
Tom: it's great! here's a video to demonstrate it: http://bit.ly/7hciT. You can't copy & paste out of the application but still it's cool. - Nir Ben Yona
but only inside magicpad, right? Or did I read the reviews wrong this week... - Robyn Miller via NoiseRiver
Honestly... I just don't understand why I'd buy this. Even at its low price. For copy / paste? Please. - l0ckergn0me
Copy paste only works inside this app though. It's good progress, but not worth $3.99 in my opinion. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg
You can only copy past within MagicPad -- and to email the text you create you must use their mail client which has an (ARRGG) Captcha that you need to type each and every time you email out your cut/copy/pasted text. Yuk! - Wayne Schulz
ARGH. didn't realize it's only for copy/paste within the app. - Emily Chang
The CAPTCHA is because to email OUT formatted text (MagicPad lets you change color, font and some styles) you MUST use the MagicPad mail client. So the CAPTCHA is to avoid automated spam on the iPhone? It's all very awkward. Save your $3.99. - Wayne Schulz
That's stupid, but the formatting bar is nice. I don't see why Apple doesn't just do that already and tell the MagicPad people sorry about their app, it'll be turned into iPhone 2.1 :) - Mark
I like seeing others post information. Interesting to see what they are posting about. - Tim Hoeck via NoiseRiver
Yet wondering why JAZZ isn't very visible in this wordle. I'm overwhelming people with jazz posts here :) - directeur via NoiseRiver
its pretty big.. I found it. Compared to things like NoiseRiver and FriendFeed though, you know? I see Miles and Coltrane in there too :) - Tim Hoeck via NoiseRiver
@Tim: Ah yes! Found it too! I see Miles and Coltrane too! :) - directeur via NoiseRiver
hah! That's great! How did you get it to stretch out so long? - Lindsay Donaghe
@Lindsay: It's actually Tim who made it. Tim would you answer the lady!! :) - directeur via NoiseRiver
Lindsay: if you use the "open window" button in the bottom left of the applet, then resize the window to your liking, then refresh the Wordle, it will fill in to the size of your window. - Trent Olson
Boy directeur, you sure do like that "noiseriver" thing..LOL - Rahsheen Porter
@Rahsheen: Man! I do! I love that NoiseRiver thing, I'm sure that the guy who made is so awesome (EDIT: +handsome) , smart and strong... that every friendfeed's gal dreams of marrying him ;-) - directeur via NoiseRiver
@Lindsay Donaghe (bluecockatoo): I do a couple things, I change the default # of words to around 300-500. The reason directeurs is streched more is because his words are a little more evenly distributed (with the exception of NR of course). In wordle, you can remove some of the bigger words to stretch it a bit more. - Tim Hoeck via NoiseRiver
The Personal Democracy Forum presents an anthology of forty-four essays brimming with the hopes of reenergizing, reorganizing, and reorienting our government for the Internet Age. - Howard Rheingold
Thoughtful blog posting...the comment section is even more interesting. Almost everybody beings their sentence with sorry. upsetting, pity... - kamla bhatt via Bookmarklet
anytime a blogger stops, the World gets a bit more silent. - Chuck
"Copyright law has abandoned its reason for being: to encourage learning and the creation of new works. Instead, its principal functions now are to preserve existing failed business models, to suppress new business models and technologies, and to obtain, if possible, enormous windfall profits from activity that not only causes no harm, but which is beneficial to copyright owners. Like Humpty-Dumpty, the copyright law we used to know can never be put back together again" - So true - Dave Q
One factor you missed is trust, according to the Corporate Social Responsibility Survey 07 http://www.csrresults.com people are more likely to trust other customers than employees and employees more than corporate websites.
So if you can get your clients and employees communicating through social media, other people who see the communication are likely to trust you more.
Trying to write a similar series of blog posts myself http://gov2.info/why-governmen... - Nick Cowie
“NoiseRiver Live Dev' Update: Now FOAF information about the poster are available. You'll not wonder why does an entry appear in your stream anymore! Stay tuned :)”
That's a mighty personal question, Chris. Do you ever wake up needing to brush your teeth? - Edward Vielmetti
nah. when I wake up the last thing I want is to connect with people. - Nicholi
Chris, yes, I am human and need to sleep. If I open a convo at 9/10PM in the evening with folks on .AU / .JP zones and then next AM, I am anxious to see what responses are there on thread. Secondly, there are classic face2face when u meet your online friends, is like "its just like old friends meeting for the 1st time" !! anxiety's surfaces and then quickly disappears. However, there is a flip side to this too..online freinds too - Peter Dawson
Great to run across you Chris. Yes. I'm typically introverted but soc netting has really encouraged me to spread my wings, meet folks online and more in person. Been to several meetups now - tweeters, bloggers, and social media. Always excited about that now. - Todd Jordan
Edward - I brush my teeth reasonably quickly after waking up. Shortly after I use the toilet and wash my hands. - Chris Brogan
Not when I wake up, but usually around 10 am. :) - Sonciary Honnoll
I hate to admit it, but get on computer before I grab coffee. - Michelle Martinez
what michelle said - wait coffees ready be right back ;) - mike "glemak" dunn
I just woke up, picked up my iPhone, fired up FF to see what's what & saw this...post complete...connected. Good Morning. - Carlos Ayala
I usually wake up cranky, in a totally disconnected mode, after a few smokes things change a little... - jk5027a
Anxious isn't the word I'd use, perhaps eager. Every morning it's coffee, a smoke, and a perusal of the morning rush to beat the next guy to publication. - Stupid Blogger
Give me an hour or so. Then we'll talk. - Paul Whitaker
Yes, I love morning coffee meetings. - David Finch
I'm a morning person. don't talk to me past 3 in the afternoon. - Noah David Simon
Sometimes I rush the getting ready process so I can sit down and see what everyone is up to you :) - Jennifer Van Grove via twhirl
No. Unless you mean filled with anxiety over having to meet with people ;) - Clint Ecker
No, not really. I get anxious on catching up on whatever I've missed, a holdover habit from my youth. Usually, whatever "happened" is not that important but I still want to get "in the know" whether it is political news or just pop culture. Once I get the basic facts about a situation, I can relax and just talk to people, read stories in depth, etc. That's not anxious, that's normally pure pleasure. - Liz
Always. Laptop is by my bed, jump on to Twitter. - Francine Hardaway
more than connecting with people.. it it to know wht these people are upto!!! - Moksh Juneja via twhirl
I wake up (this includes washing face, etc in bathroom), look at the list of new emails, have coffee, read twitter and THEN say good morning. I tend to need coffee before interacting. - chelpixie
I sleep with my laptop, to stay close to my connections :P - Phillip Jeffrey
