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The Life Scientists
A room for all the life science types on FriendFeed (and everyone we've co-opted)
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Neil Saunders posted a link
Genome Quilts by Beverly St. Clair
2 hours ago - via Bookmarklet - Link
A different form of data visualisation - Neil Saunders via Bookmarklet
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Donnie Berkholz posted a link
3 hours ago - via Bookmarklet - Link
"Mememoir aims to provide a wiki that is heavily focused on authorship and can help to dispel the prejudices scientists have against publishing in a wiki-like format." - Donnie Berkholz via Bookmarklet
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Donnie Berkholz posted a link
3 hours ago - via Bookmarklet - Link
""The point is that it's not enough to just daydream," Schooler says. "Letting your mind drift off is the easy part. The hard part is maintaining enough awareness so that even when you start to daydream you can interrupt yourself and notice a creative insight."" - Donnie Berkholz via Bookmarklet
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dekay posted a message
Wednesday at 11:34 pm - Link
As Fox Mulder once said, I have plenty of theories :) - Neil Saunders
I love Fox Mulder. He had his priorities right - Deepak
One theory: skills, experience, education are irrelevant. Contribution to "the economy" determines salary. It's hard to measure how scientists in academia contribute to GDP. Let's face it, many of them don't. - Neil Saunders
Because scientists are so much passionate that you can have them work even at very low salaries... so why pay them more? (basic supply and demand stuff...) - Enro
In addition to what Neil said, funding is wasted on the same experiments over and over again. It's not only about five groups working on the same problem today, but also about wasting resources on repeating experiments that were done 10 years ago. As far as I heard, money wasting is included in the science budgets, but that doesn't make measuring impact of science on GDP any easier. - Pawel Szczesny
It's not just scientists. Software Engineers (read MS in Computer Science) are pain $10-20K less that they might make if they were working in industry. They are doing the same kind of work AND getting appreciated much less. You have to really like scientific research to want to enable it in that kind of environment - Deepak
What Enro and Pawel said... - Björn Brembs
Supply and demand? Even now, with the relatively low salary, there are too many scientists (compared to the number of tenured positions). - Michael Kuhn
Pretty much just an echo here. Society doesn't value research appropriately because it's difficult to measure its value -- you need to think and look over long timescales, decades or longer, which people aren't used to doing and political cycles actively discourage our "leaders" (ha!) from doing. The NIH puts out a feeble little pamphlet "why fund science?" every so often, but I don't know of any concerted effort to make a strong business case for research. - Bill Hooker
There is a common belief that science is a noble profession. Society considers those who work in science to be privileged. The privilege conferred on those who can do science is supposed to compensate for lower salaries. - Jack H. Pincus
Jack, unfortunately, I don't see too much privilege given to scientists either these days (at least in the US). - Deepak
You're not in an income-generating field. You're also not generally employed to do something that management wants to get done so they can create a product: you're there because you've got the research bug. - Chris Cotsapas
Interesting to see how people are reading "scientists" as "scientists in academia" ;) Thanks to Chris & Bill for a different perspective… - dekay
It's because academic scientists are the ones that are the most underpaid, dekay. Industrial scientists are still underpaid relative to their education level, but nowhere near as bad as academic scientists. - Mr. Gunn
one of my theory that it happen because society & government can not estimate value (impact) of scientific products. It's not electronics or software or food... scientists produce papers!!! No doubt some of them will be translated and find application in medicine or other technologies but most of them not. So income (money that government or other foundations invest to academic science) much more then outcome - benefits for society and highly expected products. - Alexey
People are rewarded ('paid') based on how much 'obvious' (or relevant) contribution or product they make for their society. Scientists are not paid well because their contribution to the society is not really obvious. Their work can be presented in an important way (e.g. fight cancer) - and I think that's how scientists manage to get some money - but the problem is that for what they do, 99% of them do not generally have (or care) about an answer that is of beneficial to the society. Only 1% do. - JWS
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Maxine posted a link
13 hours ago - via Bookmarklet - Link
Onion article, flagged by OWL (Dave Lull). - Maxine via Bookmarklet
Posted twice yesterday and today http://friendfeed.com/search?q... - PauloNuin
Thanks Paulo...once things drop off the first page of FF, it is too easy to miss them. I expect they are working on it. - Maxine
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Cameron Neylon posted a link
20 hours ago - via Reshare - Link
Raf Aerts looks at taking an Open Notebook type approach to the study of coffee. - Cameron Neylon
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dekay posted a link
15 hours ago - via Bookmarklet - Link
I use rflowcyt with ggobi on a regular basis. I love it. The basic package has some dependencies that are a little tough to resolve in Linux. Installs in windows with no problems. Generally a big fan. - Zaki Manian
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Chris Lasher posted a message
Thursday at 9:13 am - Link
$0.02 from me: distracting. I'd prefer the section be structured so as to emphasize whatever you want me to take away from reading it, rather than be confronted with RANDOM SHOUTING in the middle of the text. :-) - Bill Hooker
I second Bill's opinion - Lars Juhl Jensen
Thanks guys. This was my intuition. KISS, right? - Chris Lasher
I am with Bill in this. Less text, less tables, more graphics. KISS - PauloNuin
I think you should bold them. The usability/readability of a poster is a lot like a website -- the vast majority of people quickly browse for something that catches their eye. See useit.com for more details. - Donnie Berkholz
supplementary data as handout? published on the web? ;) - dekay
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dekay posted a link
Thursday at 4:18 am - via Reshare - Link
R News? - Egon Willighagen
There's an R wiki; http://wiki.r-project.org/rwik...; don't know how comprehensive - Neil Saunders
Documentation/examples is not a strong point of R, it must be said - Neil Saunders
R views might be what you're looking for: http://cran.at.r-project.org/w... - Michael Barton
This page is pretty good too: http://www.nettakeaway.com/tp/... - Michael Barton
Did you have a look at the views http://cran.r-project.org/web/... ? They contain a list of packages to be installed as well as a short description of what you can do, although those are rather task oriented. Otherwise the RSeek search engine (http://www.rseek.org/) has become my favorite source of information. - Yann Abraham
@all: thank you for your links: here is my summary: http://www.twine.com/item/11fz... - dekay
Visualization packages: http://addictedtor.free.fr/gra... - dekay
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Wubin Qu posted a link
19 hours ago - Link
BioPythonGUI is a Graphical User Interface of BioPython. BioPython with GUI can make everyone use BioPython not only the programmers. - Wubin Qu
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Deepak posted a link
Semantic Provenance for eScience: Managing the Del
17 hours ago - via Bookmarklet - Link
"Provenance information in eScience is metadata that’s critical to effectively manage the exponentially increasing volumes of scientific data from industrial-scale experiment protocols. Semantic provenance, based on domain-specific provenance ontologies, lets software applications unambiguously interpret data in the correct context. The semantic provenance framework for eScience data comprises expressive provenance information and domain-specific provenance ontologies and applies this information to data management. The authors’ “two degrees of separation” approach advocates the creation of high-quality provenance information using specialized services. In contrast to workflow engines generating provenance information as a core functionality, the specialized provenance services are integrated into a scientific workflow on demand. This article describes an implementation of the semantic provenance framework for glycoproteomics." - Deepak via Bookmarklet
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Eric Jain posted a link
Curating the Dark Data in the Long Tail of Science
Friday at 6:03 pm - via Reshare - Link
Dealing effectively with "long tail" data is an important challenge, great to see that some people are giving this some thought... - Eric Jain
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Andrew Su posted a link
Friday at 4:05 pm - Link
... at the risk of seeming wiki-obsessed, I was impressed by how enthusiastically some of those students are taking to the project. - Andrew Su
wiki-obsessed ... never :) - Deepak
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Andrew Su posted a link
Thursday at 10:21 am - Link
Wow - Deepak
A billion dollars ain't what it used to be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L... - Chris Miller
True, but the Broad is a research institute devoted to biomedical sciences, not a general education university. On top of that, they've only been around (officially) since 2004. That's growing at a pretty good clip. (Nice when money comes in $400M chunks...) - Andrew Su
I presume that was the big news we were all waiting for? - Deepak
and IMO the future of a lot of science lies in places like the Broad, i.e. more innovation in institutes and non-profits than in university research labs - Deepak
where are the Australian billionaire philanthropists... - Neil Saunders
not in Australia, and not very philanthropic :P - Andrew Perry
:) yeah, who is there apart from Packers and Murdochs - Neil Saunders
Big data, big money, big scientists? - Attila Csordas
Attila, it would be great if such combination always mean "big science" ;) - Pawel Szczesny
The key is not big money, but not being in a place where feel the need to game the funding system, or write grants just beccause you want some funding - Deepak
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hubfeed posted a link
Friday at 8:44 am - via Bookmarklet - Link
"Compare: * MeSH terms that are applied manually (with assistance from UMLSKS) to a paper by PubMed. * Wikipedia terms detected in the abstract by GoPubMed. * Categories applied to those pages in Wikipedia." - hubfeed via Bookmarklet
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Mitchell J Stanton-Cook posted a message
Tuesday at 7:40 pm - Link
if you think about it though, it's not just work that you're providing but also training/education that you're receiving. in addition, it might filter out those really interested in science.. (don't expect me to be this understanding of the powers that be once i start next month ;) - laura
Just make sure you enjoy what you are doing. Money isn't everything after all. - imabonehead
I'm not a money person (if I was I would be doing something I'm not passionate about) but it would be nice to be paid on the correct side of the poverty line. I just feel a little bit ripped off by the government with their lack of respect and understanding. Rent doubled in 5 years, petrol prices almost doubled in the same time frame, food prices.... - Mitchell J Stanton-Cook
I've been told today by a PI that science is worlds second oldest profession. And IMHO it _IS_ better than the oldest one;) - marcin
$AU20k does sound a bit low to me (I assume that's Australian). It was $14k in my day and that is going back a bit now. But I think it is important to remember its a stipend, not a salary. And that you are also paying the penalty for the proportion of students who don't make a contribution and suck up resources. I guess the stipend is still set by government though in Oz or is there a market? When I left it looked like there was going to be a bidding war for the best students. - Cameron Neylon
There's always Poland where you could get $5000 a year and gas is $2.4 per liter (ca. $9-10 per gallon, all are US dollars). :) But little more seriously (but not really serious), you should start getting used to feeling of being underpaid. I'm yet to meet a scientists that is getting paid what he/she is worth :) - Pawel Szczesny
Cameron: There is a thing called an APA-I ... where an industry partner contributes some "top-up" money (usually just AU $5K/pa). There doesn't seem to be many APA-I scholarships negotiated in the biosciences (at least where I am), although engineering students seem to get them. I think PIs / students avoid them because the hassle of the IP issues (including sometimes 'sealed' thesis chapters) is not worth $5K/pa. Maybe if it was easier to quantify the value we generate .... - Andrew Perry
Compare it to your undergrad times: education isn't free. And this time you are getting paid for learning. Just make sure you really like what you are doing, because you are not in it for the money. Never will be. - dekay
Agree with Laura - it's a prequalifier for serious scientists. Yes is an expensive choice, like all education, but doing a PhD 20 years ago really helped my career in the pharma industry and it was well paid compared with doing a Post Doc. I decided to take the pain early for the gain later. - Sally Church
I didn't mind my PhD fellowship at all. First time I had ever earned anything, so it wasn't that bad, plus I didn't have to pay any tuition fees. As others have pointed it, it makes sure you're committed. Now once you have a PhD and get paid a pittance, that I have a serious problem with. - Deepak
What Deepak said. A few years of frugal living is no big deal, it's when you come out the other end of the meatgrinder and your real, after-tax income goes *down* instead of up that's a problem. Bear in mind also that the opportunity cost of a PhD is unrecoverable: you'll never catch up the lost earnings even if you calculate them at minimum wage. Only do this if you really, really have a jones for research, because otherwise it Will Not Be Worth It. - Bill Hooker
Also, Sally and Laura, I strenously object to the idea that you can only be a "serious scientist" if you have a PhD. I doubt that's exactly what you meant, but it's a common and absurd and offensive trope. A PhD is an endurance test, nothing more. It's not especially good training most of the time -- very dependent on supervisor, most suck -- and it's certainly not any kind of quality control, just look at the many morons who get PhDs by some witches' brew of politics, asskissery and blind perseverence. - Bill Hooker
@Bill: I absolutely didn't mean to say you need a PhD to be a 'serious scientist'. Doing a PhD for little money when one could be making big bucks in some other sector might, just might, show some commitment to science (or let's say it should...). Not doing a PhD does not imply lack of commitment or interest. Regarding the quality of training and being happy with what little stipend you may get, I prefer sticking to my idealistic assumptions for now, as I'll be starting next week. - laura
@laura: I say (and believe) that "most suck" but that doesn't mean they all do, and in particular if you are aware in advance of how the system works (and fails) then you are in a good position to make it work for you. Just the fact that you are on FF means you are *vastly* better informed than, say, I was when I started my PhD. So let me try to offset my negative tone above and say: welcome to the community, good luck, and let me know if there's any way I can help you. - Bill Hooker
Bill, my apologies. You're right, didn't mean it in that way at all, more as an indication of commitment. Like Deepak, I enjoyed mine, worked hard and didn't mind 3 years of frugal living in London. We had a lot of fun and good supervisors/facilities, so it can be done. - Sally Church
Only three years.... I always forget that it's so short in the UK. I just started year seven of my PhD this week. I'll be done in a few months, but *still*. And my lab mate is in her 8th year, and another one did a MSc in 5 years. There need to be better rules in North America about when you can *stop*. - Eva
it is rarely actually three years - the UK system does encourage finishing but it does so by creating a situation where you spend 6-9 months working with no money whatsoever. The US situation there is usually some money but no sense of a strict deadline as I understand it - is that fair? - Cameron Neylon
I think in general, we could do better at teaching PhD students time management. The basic strategy seems to be: thrash wildly for X years, then write up whatever you have. Start with 3 months of planning with a timeline at the end of it - even if you don't follow it to the letter. - Neil Saunders
I think at UQ they are changing this now. There is no need to write up a thesis. graduation depends on papers not how well you write your magnum opus which if you're lucky more than your supervisor and the reviewers will read. - Colin Archer
Don't know what it's like in Aus now but when I went through ('98) the average for a full-time PhD was close to 5 years -- and the stipends were 3 years with a hard-to-get 6 month extension. I finished my final 18-24 months (took nearly 5.5 yrs) on $12K that I borrowed from my parents (v lucky to have that opportunity, too). - Bill Hooker
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Neil Saunders posted a link
Wednesday at 10:10 pm - via Bookmarklet - Link
"But will the bench scientists participate? "This business of trying to capture data from the community has been around ever since there have been biological databases," says Ewan Birney of the European Bioinformatics Institute in Hinxton, UK. And the efforts always seem to fizzle out. Founders enthusiastically put up a lot of information on the site, but the 'community' — either too busy or too secretive to cooperate — never materializes. So how do the wiki proponents know that this time around will be different?" - Neil Saunders via Bookmarklet
IMHO, many previous efforts have been too focused on properly structured/formatted/annotated data to facilitate downstream mining. New emphasis (e.g., with wikis) is on lowering the activation barrier to participation. We bioinformaticians can worry about structuring that data later -- asking users to do it is a recipe for nonparticipation. - Andrew Su
Great summary of the potential and problems of using wikis in biology. One issue is credit-assignment. WikiGenes links every piece of text directly to its author. - Martin Fenner
@Andrew: Regarding "activation barrier", you can't go much lower than having a simple text feedback box where people can post additions or corrections to existing data (without having to sign up or learn any special syntax or rules). So for databases that want to increase the amount of feedback they get, it may make more sense to focus on making that mechanism more attractive first. Not quite as sexy and grant-attracting as building yet another wiki, of course... - Eric Jain
If people care about the data, and it brings value to them, I believe they will participate. I am completely with Eric though. Some wiki's (and other services) make it difficult enough to sign up that people just can't be bothered. - Deepak
Eric, I think we agree... Didn't mean to suggest that wikis are the end all and be all. Blogging, twitter, even FF's "like" button are all in the same vein. Oh, "instant feedback" I think is another property that promotes participation. Surely every database has a comments/corrections email address that people *could* use to submit feedback. But those lack instant feedback, which is why I think they're underutilized... - Andrew Su
Andrew - On the other hand, if people can't rely on the fidelity of the data, will they actually use it? Email -> curation -> display gives users confidence in the data. And what is the critical mass required for community annotation? The more users, the more likely others will join. How many will also monitor and correct data submissions? How many are necessary? - Todd Harris
Todd, I think users are sophisticated enough to understand data at varying degrees of reliability. Sure, if you munge all your high-quality curated data in with instant contributions, that won't inspire confidence. But if the annotation model is clear for each section of your site, I think people will be fine with that. Plus, these user-contributed factoids then can become the low-lying fruit for the official curators (rather than staying on top of Pubmed, which is impossible). - Andrew Su
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Andrew Perry posted a message
Job Ad: Grimwade Research Fellow (5 year term), Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, University of Melbourne.
Thursday at 5:05 pm - Link
This position has just been advertised in the Department I work in. It's a pretty good deal for any senior Postdoc ready to make the transition to PI. - Andrew Perry
Andrew, how do you think your dept would view Open Science? - Bill Hooker
My feeling is that the Department wouldn't have any problem with Open Science per se, however the usual currency of high impact peer reviewed publications and acquiring grants still would apply, like most places. Those who are publishing well and bringing in grants to fund their research tend to be more highly regarded and do less teaching ... I can't imagine the Department really cares either way about the 'details' of how this type of success is achieved (Open vs. the status quo). - Andrew Perry
Thinking of applying Bill? - Neil Saunders
Sorta... it's a bit out of my league I think, plus I did just spend 6 years and tens upon tens of thousands of dollars to get the US to allow me to stay here... I dunno. - Bill Hooker
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Chris Lasher posted a message
Thursday at 11:30 am - Link
I think you should upload it to Flickr in great resolution and then use the Share on Friendfeed feature with which you can share both the link and the image with us. - Berci Mesko
Upload it anywhere, and post the link on FF? - Eric Jain
Flickr, website, you name it - PauloNuin
Post to Nature Precedings and provide link? - Maxine
Didn't we just have a conversation about having conversations again...? Some more ideas at http://friendfeed.com/e/4e0946... - Cameron Neylon
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Thomas Lemberger posted a link
September 2 at 12:18 am - Link
I am not a programmer and have zero idea about Javascript, so had many problems. Improvements most welcome! Couldn't use properly the xml from ncbi's E-utilities (wrong mime-type???) :-( Anyway, to use the command, copy-paste the code into Ubiquity's command-editor (read more: <http://is.gd/1Wns>). Try a PubMed search by selecting something on the screen, call Ubiquity (option-space) and type 'pubmed', wait and see... - Thomas Lemberger
nice examples on the Ubiquity homepage - Pedro Beltrao
Brilliant, I love it.. Didn't seem to save the command when I restarted the browser though - Jason Winget
added a little feature to select number of records displayed (eg include #3 somewhere in the query to limit to 3 records) and moved the code to http://code.google.com/p/tl-ub... - Thomas Lemberger
For parsing XML, jQuery is very nice and it's included in Ubiquity. No need to do match() :) - Rajarshi Guha
mmh, I tried this but it did not work... unfortunately ncbi's e-utils return text/html but jQuery expects text/xml (<http://is.gd/bu6>). Is there a workaround? - Thomas Lemberger
if retmode is xml, I can work with it in jQuery. Also in jQuery.ajax() you should set the type as xml. Also, namespaces need to be separated from the element by ':\\'. See http://groups.google.com/group... - Rajarshi Guha
I have a PubMed/JSON proxy in Scintilla if you need it - would make this much easier. - hubfeed
var parser = new window.DOMParser() - Thomas Lemberger
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Bill Hooker posted a link
Wednesday at 9:18 pm - Link
"Documents on twidox are accessible to everyone online and will allow people to share their knowledge and help others with their work, learning, teaching and research. The focus of the website is on: * professional and industry specific documents * research material * academic papers and articles * coursework and dissertations * data and statistics" - Bill Hooker
Currently in "private beta"; might be a useful preprint/presentation server. via Peter Suber http://www.earlham.edu/~peters... - Bill Hooker
I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to be... - Björn Brembs
I signed up for the "private beta" but have yet to get my account info. I'll post more when I have a chance to tinker with it. - Bill Hooker
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Neil Saunders posted a link
Wednesday at 9:46 pm - via Bookmarklet - Link
"Third, curators, researchers, academic institutions and funding agencies should, in the next ten years, increase the visibility and support of scientific curation as a professional career" - Neil Saunders via Bookmarklet
This article by far the best in the special Nature issue this week. - Neil Saunders
It's not a free access issue is it? - Deepak
Not sure Deepak - it sure should be, if it isn't. - Neil Saunders
I think the articles are freely-available; follow the links from http://www.nature.com/news/spe..., they are not marked as pay/subscribe - Neil Saunders
The entire issue is free online, but for two weeks only. Download them now while you can... - Andrew Su
exactly Andrew - Graham Steel
Downloading furiously - Deepak
/me is safe in the knowledge the dead tree copy will be waiting for him when he gets home :) - Daniel Swan
Yes it is free access for 2 weeks. I've posted twice about that on this FF group, see here: http://friendfeed.com/e/1489a2... (at time of writing, about 3 or 4 entries below this one). - Maxine
"The exponential growth in the amount of biological data means that revolutionary measures are needed for data management, analysis and accessibility." -- Is the revolutionary measure free access for 2 weeks......? - Frank
I can't wait to read Cory's article!!!! I am thrilled!!! - PauloNuin
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Maxine posted a link
Thursday at 7:58 am - via Reshare - Link
"Second of British Library "Talk Science" quarterly cafe scientifique evenings. Timo Hannay talking. London, 6-8.30 p.m. I'll be there. - You via Bookmarklet (edit | delete)" - Maxine
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arfon posted a message
Thursday at 1:32 am - Link
Matt starts with "previously". How was sequencing done in the past: 15 years, $3 billion. Most of the bioinformatics work was done with Perl. - Martin Fenner
Onwards: compare genomes: species and individuals. Much cheaper and faster, powered mostly by Ruby on Rails. - Martin Fenner
1 genome, 10 years. Upcoming....1000 genome project - arfon
2 main problems facing modern Biology: 1. Coping with rapid change - arfon
Data is rapidly changing, created virtual fields in their databases to handle this. - Martin Fenner
Virtual fields can be edited on the fly to reflect changes in the lab process - arfon
Problem 2. Throughput!!! - arfon
Ruby and Rails is also used to definy the workflow with a web-based interface. - Martin Fenner
Issues with large data sets: 75 TByte per week. - Martin Fenner
75 TB per week - arfon
Maintaining performance: denormalize the data - arfon
Large data sets are denormalized for faster queries. Uses multiple applications for scaling. - Martin Fenner
Run multiple instances of the same application for difference science domains - arfon
Deployment details: Nginx reverse proxied to a pack on mongrels - arfon
Automate everything. - Martin Fenner
Integrate with legacy databases. Uses RESTful services. - Martin Fenner
Trillionics: scale changes the way we do science. - Martin Fenner
Towards a virtual institute - arfon
Lots of data, lots of people, lots of compute, lots and lots and lots - arfon
Towards a Virtual Institute. Lots of data, lots of people, lots of compute, lots of uses. Issues of distribution. - Martin Fenner
Talk over. Questions: Have we considered anything other than relational databases? - arfon
Answer: not yet! Certainly will be looking at alternatives in the future - arfon
Thanks for Arf and Martin for the live updates! Really enjoyed giving this talk. Good questions afterwards and conversations over coffee. Excellent. - Matt Wood
This was the only science-related talk at this RailsConf. Most people seem to use Ruby on Rails for other stuff. Interestingly, the talk coincided with the special feature (big data) from today's Nature. - Martin Fenner
@Martin - a miracle of scheduling! - Matt Wood
One day I'll get to see you give one of these talks in person - Deepak
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Maxine posted a message
Thursday at 2:37 am - Link
Continuing the message above: all the articles, as well as downloadable PDFs of the print versions, will be free online for two weeks at http://www.nature.com/news/spe.... Please download everything you are interested in—and spread the word to friends and colleagues about what you like (and don’t like!) via email, blog, and Web site. And of course, don’t forget that Nature always welcomes letters to the editor at corres@nature.com. (Posted on behalf of Mitch by Maxine.) - Maxine
Thanks for the tip - ivanandersson
The Petacenter article on CERN is excellent but I'm getting a corrupt file message for the PDF - Sally Church
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Neil Saunders posted a link
Wednesday at 10:05 pm - via Bookmarklet - Link
"I’ve used both paper and electronic notebooks, and I’ve come to one conclusion: whatever you can make electronic, make it so. Trust me, it’s worth the effort" - Neil Saunders via Bookmarklet
Quote from the post, not me, obviously :) - Neil Saunders
I really really like this. The more people who test and try out different tools, the more it will be possible to distill a consensus opinion on generically versus specifically useful functions. - Heather
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arfon posted a message
Thursday at 1:49 am - Link
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