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Rachel Singer Gordon › Comments
Facebook! Why do you make the whole pages interface so CLUNKY? Anyone know how to get a blog feed to show up on a page WALL as opposed to Notes or Box?
Heck, Rachel, I've given up on even understanding the difference. Bad enough you need to check Privacy every day or two to see whether FB's defaulted various things to "EVERYBODY!" again.
- Walt Crawford
I have played with 2 different apps now to try to get this to work and am about to give up -- not sure why it can't just work like my personal profile which grabs updates so easily.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Share your candy for care packages for soldiers - http://www.mashupmom.com/...
If I wasn't so greedy, I would!! Nom, nom (poor kiddos!)...
- Victoria Plautia
I might just have to ship mine off so I can STOP eating it!
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Iván Abrego and josh neff, geek at large liked this
Absolutely adorable!
- josh neff, geek at large
Thanks! I think so too, but I'm biased :)
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Anna Lynn M., laura x, D0r0th34 and 20 other people liked this
DOESN'T ANYONE SCREEN THESE POSTS?
- s t e v e
Steve, if you can't control your tone of voice, I'm going to have to ask Jenica to ban you.
- DJF
David, I think you'd have to take that up with the Online Interactions Committee.
- lris' ghost
The policy clearly states that I'm allowed up to five words in all caps per thread.
- s t e v e
BUT BUT...someone might say something THAT WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR. What if they tell us our service sucks? User feedback? HELL TO THE NAW.
- Sarah G.
Moderators, meh, but people to guide and build communities? For sure. Not being at ILI, I haven't a clue of the context from which you Tweet, however :)
- Fiona Bradley
But what if a patron types FUCK?
- josh neff, geek at large
*clutches pearls* JOSH NEFF JUST TYPED THE WORD FUCK. OH CRAP. NOW I DID TOO. *faints*
- Sarah G.
hahaha, i'm glad i'm not the only one that gets irritated by the librarian's obsession w/ moderation
- Ed Summers
i am going to report you all to the proper authorities.
- Free?
I love walking away for a few hours and coming back to hysteria. BECAUSE THERE ARE NO MODERATORS OMGWTFBBQ
- Jenica
It's pining for the days when we were the gatekeepers, really.
- John Fink
unsubscribe.
- a creature was stirring
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME TOO! I thought this list was for getting articles in the place of ILL?
- Joe
SNORT. this is much better than my session.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
(There was a moderator. She saw what was going on here, went "tch tch" and walked away.)
- Walt Crawford
Those people who whine about the people who want moderators when they can't even bother to do the research on moderators? Well, I can't really call them information professionals.
- s t e v e
+5 Lawson. Can you call them haters?
- Walt Crawford
how do I unsubscribe from this list? won't someone please tell me???
- Stephanie_Thankful
Check it: Information Professional is so 2007. We're Knowledge Professionals now.
- Sarah G.
I am out of the office from October 26 through October 24, but will respond to your message when I return.
- Walt Crawford
Oct 24, 2010? Wow, you will be gone a loooonnnnnggg time.
- Joe
That Jenica is SO off base. Can you believe her guts?? .... er- Please excuse my last post, which was not intended for the full list.
- lris' ghost
gah to all of you people asking about unsubscribing, the information is right here! http://www.microsoft.com/info...
- Sir Shuping
UNSUBSCRIBE ME!!!
- Rachel Singer Gordon
U GUYZ R ALL L00ZERS! I PWN U! STEVE LAWSON IS QUEER!
- josh neff, geek at large
Geez, who let B1FF in?
- DJF
We don't need to regulate online social spaces. We need to regulate Joshua M. Neff, who is a jerkface.
- s t e v e
ths cmmnt hs bn dsmvwlld
- D0r0th34
Dorothea just made me literally laugh out loud! (I once had a comment disemvowelled on Boing Boing.)
- josh neff, geek at large
I love librarians.
- DJF
Friends/ I have started a New Online Community / Blog / Clearing House / Sewing Circle to discuss this Important Matter. Look for it on Facebook / Ning / Orkut / IRC. /Steve
- s t e v e
This is now my favorite thread of the day, and I'm not even a librarian.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
God I love librarians. :)
- Jenica
Thread drift! Somebody rename the subject line so that we can talk about the awesomeness of this thread separately from this thread. Really, people, can't we keep it orderly around here?! You all know the rules!
- D0r0th34
Iris, I was going to say the same thing. I don't know why Jenica started this ... oh wait, that really happened to me today. so nice to lol!!
- Stephanie_Thankful
Um, ALA promised me a job as a moderator. LIARS! They owe me a career.
- s t e v e
Steve, I have more degrees than you do. I don't care if you have more library experience. Giving you that job instead of me would be SO UNFAIR.
- lris' ghost
Iris, but it's been 10 years and i STILL havent gotten a job with my mls. It's MY turn to get that job! *whine*
- Archangel ωαřмaiden
Please make sure to do a keyword search of the archives to review policies on unsubscribing, disemvowelling and moderator job requirements...
- Abigail
Please do not keep responding to the whole message. Those of us reading the digest are a bit overwhelmed.
- laura x
hey this is relevant to 5 other lists so please cross post all future responses to those list also
- Sir Shuping
I hope this thread makes Best of Week.
- Spidra Webster
aren't we talking about moderators in online communities? I think we've drifted from the original thread here, people.
- Stephanie_Thankful
best of the week? i think this is one of the best of the month!
- Sir Shuping
woo-hoo I won the thread! IN YOUR FACE, LAWSON! YOU TOO, NEFF! :P :P :P oh, wait, did I send that to everybody? ooooooops...
- D0r0th34
*looks around* NAZIS! *runs away*
- Jason Griffey
we should change this list so it doesn't Reply All. really.
- Stephanie_Thankful
*comment redacted by moderator*
- Laura wishes you peace.
omg censorship! anti-constitutional violation of rights! I'm calling my lawyer!
- Deborah Fitchett
Dammit, Griffey just Godwined this thread!
- josh neff, geek at large
Stephanie, this is clearly a user-education issue. list replies work very well 98% of the time. It's the people who don't take a couple of seconds to check the header before they hit send that are causing all the problems here.
- DJF
This is why computers are a bad idea.
- s t e v e
Andrew Keen was right!
- josh neff, geek at large
Wow. Go for a walk and you miss a lot... But, Steve up above, you lack ! a Sufficient \ Number / of Important! Exciting = Current Punctuation Elements. Oh, and the text is all one color. What's up with that? I'll start six wikis and ten blogs to figure it out...
- Walt Crawford
It's reprehensible for an information professional to use Comic Sans.
- laura x
First!
- John Dupuis
Don't you guys have any WORK to do? I'm TOO BUSY to read all these emails.
- Stephanie_Thankful
from iPhone
I don't think we should exclude people from this online community just because they can't think of anything witty to say. That strikes me as highly unwelcoming and a subcommittee will be creating a geocities page to address the issue.
- Laura Norvig
(Jenica has shown great restraint in not deleting all these comments. I vote Jenica dictator^H^H^H^H^H^H^H moderator for life.)
- s t e v e
me too!!!
- tara
Does anyone have the article, "Reductionist Sexual Tendancies of the Male Northern Black-haired Scrat: Temporal Judgements and Seasonal Mating Rituals," Journal of Neoclassical Biological Systematics, 145(3):9952-9976? ScienceDirect is telling me I owe them $30... Could you please send me a PDF?
- Joe
I reiterate, I love librarians.
- Jenica
Steve and Walt > || _ Genius! / _||
- Fiona Bradley
agreed. > I don't think we should exclude people from this online community just because they can't think of anything > witty to say. That strikes me as highly unwelcoming and a >subcommittee will be creating a geocities page to address the issue. > Wow. Go for a walk and you miss a lot... But, Steve up above, you lack ! > a Sufficient \ Number / of Important! Exciting = Current...
more...
- Stephanie_Thankful
Things I don't want to see when I turn on "House": Tied score in baseball, bottom of the 10th inning...
pea, Rachel Singer Gordon, Roberto Bonini and 2 other people liked this
oh, poo. My TiVo will NOT know about that.
- Louise Alcorn
nor will my DVR! hmmm
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Pay us and we’ll think about letting you teach - http://www.lisjobs.com/blog...
And it doesn't even say something like "refundable upon acceptance" or something along those lines.
- Betsy (bentley) Vera
Guy on my facebook says that's how accreditation works, see ;)
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Perhaps the best headline ever - http://www.lisjobs.com/blog...
Sheesh. Dude sounds like a character out of a Dickens novel.
- Kirsten
I saw the headline elsewhere and assumed it linked to the Onion.
- Betsy (bentley) Vera
It's sadly all too real -- I know someone who works there (well, she's quitting...!).
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Wow! That's low.
- Katy S
Rachel looking for a good RSS -> email service -- any suggestions? (no, not for me...)
feedmyinbox.com
- Archangel ωαřмaiden
Got anything that will update more than once/day or allow people to set frequency? :)
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Anyone have opinions on a good RSS->email service? (no, not for me... :))
Rachel's not asking for me, either, but I am also interested!
- laura x
For someone subscribing or someone setting up? I use feedburner to give my blog readers the email option.
- Abigail
Either really. I use Feedburner over at Mashup Mom to give people the email option. However they are frustrated because it's a "deals" blog, and with the roundup morning email they miss out on one-day only deals that I posted the day before -- they expire by the time they see them. So I want to be able either to provide an option to receive multiple emails/day or to steer them somewhere to receive the feed as emails.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
there's this: http://www.feedmyinbox.com/ not sure what it would do for blogs (once a day, all at once)...
- Sir Shuping
Feed My Inbox is GREAT!
- ♫Geek in the 410♫
and if i had read it, i'd have seen sends one e-mail every 24 hours
- Sir Shuping
Thanks! That looks easy, but I'm really looking for one where it will either email as posts are made or allow you to set the frequency to more than once a day -- I'm offering the once a day through Feedburner but some people want to get the email updates more frequently.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Stockpile photo contest! - http://www.mashupmom.com/...
I wish I would have taken pictures before I did my donations! However... here's what I got going on in the "Basement grocery store" as my husband calls it... http://s400.photobucket.com/albums... http://s400.photobucket.com/albums......
more...
- Melissa Verhulst
Hey thanks! sorry you're too late for the contest but I love seeing the photos anyway :).
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Anyone have tomato recipes? - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
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Sliced, on bread and covered with good cheddar, toasted. Or dice and mix with those peppers to make salsa, to smother an omelet with (or nachos). Or mix diced with the cucumbers, add a little red onion and vinaigrette for a salad. Or fine-dice the mater and cuke and add to yogurt with black pepper and dill for a raita-like dip. A little red onion's good in that, too. There's always BLTs, too.
- Kirsten
:) thanks! I already made pico de gallo to go with leftover pork chops, plus tomato cucumber salad tonight -- I always forget about making tomato cheddar sandwiches, yum.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Anyone else eating out of the freezer today? :) - http://www.mashupmom.com/...
LOL -- this was in reference to earlier posts about a pizza deal at my local grocery store. Eating frozen junk today only to make room! usually it's more in moderation :).
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Roku Digital Video Player - http://www.amazon.com/dp...
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i've got one and love it. works great
- Sir Shuping
I have one. We lost the remote. How, I do not know. So now we have to telnet in to pick shows. Someday we will break down and buy a new remote...
- Rachel Singer Gordon
ooo - good to know - might bump it up on the wish list :)
- Nicole
it's worth the 99 bucks, but i'm curious...what idiot is selling it for 499 bucks?? i would hope that a typo
- Sir Shuping
you no...someone else :)
- Sir Shuping
Well, it finally happened. Reed just peed on my face. Not as horrible as I was anticipating, really.
chaz2b, Penguin It's Cold Outside, John Dupuis and Rochelle liked this
Baby pee really isn't so bad. If he does it when he's 18, that's a different story.
- s t e v e
You've been baptized!
- Stephen Francoeur
Try having the next diaper ready. And as soon as air hits him he is going to go.
- ♫Geek in the 410♫
from iPod
I normally do, Maurice, but he had some red spots in his diaper area, so I was putting on ointment after a bath and, well, you know what happened next. My brother, who is visiting from NYC and has never so much as held a baby, was quite amused.
- Meredith
As long as you don't have your mouth open, it's all good!
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Laura wishes you peace. liked this
I'll buy you a drink at ALA! I probably owe you one anyhow.
- D0r0th34
I'm probably only heading down Sat. Going to the M&S luncheon thing?
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Yup, and staying the weekend because I'm doing an ALCTS panel Monday. Might you be headed for the LSW meetup Saturday?
- D0r0th34
When is it? I have to speak at an Emerald reception.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Sevenish. Giordano's at 223 W. Jackson, IIRC.
- D0r0th34
thx. Maybe if I'm not too wiped after the reception dealio.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
OK, so, yeah. After being up and out since 4 AM and wearing the freaking wrong shoes, couldn't face catching the 1040 instead of the 840 train back out. Internet Librarian? smaller conferences = happy me.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
RT @jmilles: Fox News says health study doesn't apply to US because "we keep marrying other species and other ethnics." http://www.salon.com/politic...
what the fuck??? that's...just fing stupid
- Sir Shuping
At least some of them are forthright about their enlightened social attitudes. (Couldn't read the whole article. The most intrusive overlay ad I've ever seen blocked most of the screen and *will*not*go*away.)
- Walt Crawford
Firefox+Adblock Plus. I <heart> my adblock. (And good lord!)
- Rachel Singer Gordon
since the dean has "officially" told library folks I can announce here that as of July 1 I'll have a new title: Learning Commons/Emerging Technologies/Interlibrary Loan Librarian (yes it's a mouth full) It will hopefully give me some new opportunities to try things. And a big, big thank you to all of you for listening and providing support via FF
bob, Laura wishes you peace., marthalib and 10 other people liked this
twitter, e-mail, etc. I couldn't have lasted htis long without y'all
- Sir Shuping
conga rats! :)
- holly
thanks all! i'm excited and it is a lot, but it's basically everything i was already doing and not getting paid for...now i have the official approval of admin to explore and play :)
- Sir Shuping
Congratulations Andrew. Feel free to compare notes on the ETL side of things
- Kathryn says love n peace
Huzzah!!! Congratulations :)
- Abigail
YAY!! Congratulations!
- Courtney McGough
Dude! You will need a bigger business card.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
business cards? what are those? :P i'll def be asking y'all questions :)
- Sir Shuping
Congratulations!
- Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1
well, hurrah and good for you!!! yay!
- marthalib
did you get to give up responsibilities? or did they just pile it on?
- marthalib
Congrats! Get some new Moo cards... Better yet, get the Univ to pay for it.
- Joe
It is now July 1 on the east coast, but only 10pm on the 30th here in Denver. Do you feel any different with the new title?
- Joe
heh, not quite...they haven't given me the millions i was expecting yet
- Sir Shuping
Holy cow that's a long title! Congrats!
- Heidi Blanton
from iPhone
dear Elsevier, stop digging, you are embarassing us - http://www.librarian.net/stax...
Nicolas Alarcon, David, marlene and Peter Murray liked this
O.M.G.
- laura x
I wonder how much they'd pay for a positive review of a fake peer reviewed journal. Hmmm.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Dinner made easy newsletter — from our friends at Betty Crocker - http://www.mashupmom.com/...
LOL -- thanks! I'm having so much fun with this blog :).
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Sign up for Kohl’s emails, get coupons - http://www.mashupmom.com/...
And be able to print those coupons, too, one hopes.
- Stephen Francoeur
Yeah which browser will I need to print them out I wonder?
- Mlibrarianus
LOL -- if I remember right, this one comes as just a graphic on a web page you can print, but it's been a while.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Free pulled pork slider — White Castle - http://www.mashupmom.com/...
♫Geek in the 410♫ and Lori Reed liked this
Mmmm...pork..it's what's for dinner..the other white meat... :)
- Lori Reed
Some foods they should just not take pictures of close up, though!
- Rachel Singer Gordon
put unopened bread machine on craigslist. For free. maybe it'll finally go away to good home?
RAPatton and Laura wishes you peace. liked this
If not, try Freecycle! :)
- Laura H.
Honest question: Which is likely to work faster--Freecycle or Craigslist? Or does it depend on where you are? (I have a fully-functional treadmill that I'll give away before we move...and have never used either of these.)
- Walt Crawford
I wish I could say, Walt - I haven't ever tried to give something away on Craigslist, so I couldn't say. And I suspect, as you say, it does depend on where you are.
- Laura H.
Something like a treadmill would probably go quickly on freecycle, I've used it much more than Craigslist.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Agree with Rachel. Freecycle will take care of a treadmill PDQ.
- D0r0th34
Thanks. Mountain View's quarterly recycling flyer (from the city) mentions both of them. I'll use Freecycle.
- Walt Crawford
I haven't used Freecycle but I've had good luck with Craiglist. Had about 10 offers to take it in three hours and I mandated they pick up. Have arranged pick up with person I selected and am looking forward to it being GONE!!
- Abigail
Reporting back: Joined Freecycle, offered treadmill (to be picked up next week). Taken within five minutes; by the time I could post a TAKEN post, two more backup requests. So, yes, Dorothea, "quickly" is an understatement.
- Walt Crawford
Freecycle in Atlanta has been great. I've had about the same experience as Walt.
- Jàson Puçkett
Yay! Glad it's going to a new home. Bread machine was picked on Friday!
- Abigail
A non-library association to which I do not belong has asked me to do a webinar for free. However, they will record the webinar and then sell it to their members. This part of the deal is non-negotiable. If the decision was yours, would you do the webinar?
a creature was stirring liked this
Nope.
- Jenica
Nope.
- B. Hatin
No.
- Jàson Puçkett
No.
- Joey Gibson
No.
- ♥patricia♥
Some of it depends on the association, and whether it has enough "name" to get me better gigs later. But in general, no.
- Jason Griffey
from twhirl
Not unless it is a charity and you are trying to help it raise money.
- Candy Schwartz
Heck no.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Letter meet shredder. Ah No.
- ♫Geek in the 410♫
Probably not. It would depend on if I wanted to break into the business of the non-library association (assuming I wasn't known there already). It would also depend on how much effort I would have to put into preparation; if it was a repackaging of something I already have done, I'd feel differently about it.
- Peter Murray
Thanks for the input. I did a presentation at one of their regional conferences earlier this year (paid expenses) and would like to stay in their good graces, but this seems a bit much. I need to do a bit more thinking, but I'm definitely leaning in the "no" direction.
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
If you have a lost flash drive turned in, how do you get it back to the right person? At the moment we've been looking at documents to get names, but it's been recently pointed out that this could lead us into to trouble. But are there alternatives?
It's mine, please return. Thanks!
- JSNFLMNG
As a general rule, I'd recommend against plugging an unknown drive into your networked machines. It could contain something malicious. If you really want to see what's on it, I'd only plug it into a machine that is *not* networked, scan it, and be willing to reinstall the OS if you have to.
- David Rothman (☤)
from fftogo
I have done that--looked at docs. If your library isn't comfortable doing that, you just have to throw 'em in the lost & found.
- s t e v e
I specifically have a file on mine entitled "IF FOUND RETURN TO" with my contact info in the file. Not sure how else you could do it, except to look at files. What do you do with found cell phones? (thinking there is the same privacy issue poking around there)
- Rachel Walden
You can disable autorun.inf -- http://blogs.computerworld.com/the_bes... on a particular machine that you use to check these. (You meant computer trouble, or legal trouble?)
- Rachel Singer Gordon
more like the patron would get upset that we looked at their documents. with cell phones it seems that they have enough variety (and not many of these get left behind) that it's not an issue
- Sir Shuping
With cell phones I think you're usually getting a lot less information---I usually look for "mom" or the ICE number. And that takes me only into the phone book. Documents is more questionable but RachelW has good idea on adding an IF FOUND....
- Abigail
I think if they have super-seekrit stuff on their USB drive, they shouldn't lose it in the first place. Snoop just enough to find the name and I believe you are fine, morally. Legally, IANAL.
- s t e v e
thanks all for the suggestions/advice! greatly appreciated
- Sir Shuping
Academic library - we look for files called "Contact" or else CVs or else assignments. Our computers don't auto-run - they ask if you want to do x, y, z, or open the folder to view files. No-one's complained about snooping yet.
- Deborah Fitchett
I'm with steve. Either they have the sense to ask at Lost & Found, or it sits there forever. I'd much rather have someone snoop my stuff and get it back to me than to lose it forever. I've done this tons of times and the students were always VERY appreciative. We'd throw away L&F stuff once a year, and we ended up with lots of "staff' thumb drives if we didn't go the extra mile.
- Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock
It might be different in an academic environment, where students assume to some extent that you "know" who they are, or can find out. In a public library environment, it might be more tricky. We keep our USB drives at the ref desk when found, rather than letting them get mixed in with the giant Lost and Found pile 'o stuff. Most folks call us in a panic, and we can say "yes, your purple...
more...
- Louise Alcorn
Some people are incapable of being quiet during a presentation!
WHAT?! I COULDN"T HEAR YOU!
- Rachel Singer Gordon
For Earth Day, I am putting off my plot to rule the world with my giant freeze ray cannon. It requires a lot to power it.
marthalib liked this
Yes, but think what it could do for global warming.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
(I bet he just ran out of wonderflonium.)
- D0r0th34
(Ixnay on the onderfloniumway!)
- josh neff, geek at large
My kids are having a screaming contest. Literally. Seeing who can be the loudest. It's a toss-up. I think I know who LOSES, though...
adf, Admiral Anika, Alix Whitmire and a creature was stirring liked this
And people wonder why we're not having children.
- Jàson Puçkett
Would you like to borrow some for the evening?
- Rachel Singer Gordon
That's a negatory, good buddy.
- Jàson Puçkett
But... but... they're FREE! Like in KITTENS!
- Rachel Singer Gordon
At least my cats don't compete on noise.
- D0r0th34
Yeah, nobody's going to call the cops if I lock my cat outside for a few hours.
- Jàson Puçkett
D0r0th34, unfortunately, my cats do. :/ As well as who can claw the deepest into the mattress when nobody is looking.
- Alix Whitmire
at least when my son's cousin visits I know I can just ask my brother to take him away if it gets to be too much ;)
- JSNFLMNG
“Watching the e-science folks on FF as well as BIGWIG and the LSW, I become more and more convinced that social networks are the new smoke-filled back rooms where the world is changed out from under everyone. On the whole, I think I am happy about it.” - http://friendfeed.com/e...
Fiona Bradley, Matt Hamilton, suelibrarian and Sir Shuping liked this
This is from Dorothea Salo's private FF, so you may not be able to click through. But I thought that the LSW room might have some more to say about this.
- s t e v e
Here's what I said in the comments there: "I have been thinking along the same (several) lines. It would be a mistake to exaggerate the influence of (say) the LSW, but it's true that we have some kind of center of gravity around librarians on social networks. I'm also fascinated as to how a completely open space can also feel like a smoke-filled room. Because I know it can/does to some people."
- s t e v e
I find the comments about "groupthink" & "cliques" to be interesting. KGS made a similar crack on her blog recently about Wikipedia being like high school, where the most popular rule. All I can think is: what did you imagine self-organizing groups would act like?
- josh neff, geek at large
I made one of those comments, so may as well respond :). I'm not surprised as much as saying that it's something to think about. First, I talked to a couple people at CIL for instance who were feeling left out of lobbycon and saying it felt very cliquish & they felt they were missing out -- I told them hey, just come sit down -- but it's intimidating from the outside.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
And secondly, I think that hanging out here or on twitter or wherever tends to add to the sense of surprise and dismay when others "don't get it" or when things seem so obvious and easy to implement. In greater libraryland, not so much
- Rachel Singer Gordon
from pollyanna here in vt. maybe we can figure out how to keep the back room from getting smoke-filled
- smkvt
And hey, I hang out here because I like self-selected groups as much as anyone
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Yeah, those are valid concerns, Rachel. I'm just not sure what to do when people complain of feeling excluded from a non-hierachical, self-selecting group (besides, as you said, encourage people to just join in). Saying, "Just get involved in ALA if you want to change it" doesn't work for me, because I can't afford to get involved. I literally don't have the money it requires. Saying, "Get involved in the LSW" is much more meaningful, I think.
- josh neff, geek at large
And of course there will be cliques. I mean, I like to hang out with likeminded people. I don't like hanging out with people who don't get me & who I don't get. So, yes, birds of a feather will flock together. I see that as a natural, not at all bad thing.
- josh neff, geek at large
Oh yeah, "just get involved in ALA if you want to change it" is a nonstarter for most people. But OK -- think for instance of the panel on LSW I saw at (what was it, last fall at IL? or last CIL? they blur). The session was awesome fun for anyone who had been in there or had any idea what panelists were talking about. For people who just came in to see what's what, totally confusing
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Rachel: If I had been at CiL and not known any of the people involved, lobbycon would have scared the hell out of me. Even knowing (virtually) a lot of the people there, such a large group would make me uncomfortable. I don't know what to do about strategies for making that more accessible beyond making sure that the people who are engaged take the time to look beyond the group to encourage people on the fringes to come in.
- DJF
from twhirl
(I'm working on no sleep and a bad head cold so trouble being coherent here) -- but trying to say: LSW or FF or wherever: cool. Self-selecting groups: have their place. But I think we should just be aware of the self-reinforcing nature of these places because it's easy to get caught up in and forget. Sall.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Was that our presentation on the LSW? Because I could see that being confusing to people who weren't already in on it. Of course, part of that is because there were 3 of us & we had half a session to present, because ITI merged our presentation with another group's.
- josh neff, geek at large
As for the LSW, as far as I'm concerned, the point of it isn't "hey, everyone, come join our group!" For me, the point is, "Hey, look how easy it was for us to form our own group! If you want to join in, cool! Or, you could just as easily form your own group!"
- josh neff, geek at large
Sorry, edited, yeah the LSW presentation. (And ITI's panel sessions are a whole other topic!)
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Which may be a commentary on how established groups react to small splinter groups and small competitors, Josh.
- D0r0th34
I love to see us all having conversation, because it is the same conversation I have been having in my head the last month or two. I think I have had a little Rachel and Josh on each shoulder whispering "groups are inherently cliquish and off-putting" and "there's no way around that so just embrace it! And it's better than the alternative."
- s t e v e
DJF, I'm having that same conversation with myself as I write that blog post. *g*
- D0r0th34
Steve -- that's a great mental image, thanks! :)
- Rachel Singer Gordon
Now I'm imagining Rachel dressed as an angel & me as a devil.
- josh neff, geek at large
Photoshop or it didn't happen! *g*
- D0r0th34
I'm fascinated by all this as well, in part because I have been on the outside of a lot of cool self-selecting groups in the past, and due to some combination of shyness on my part and cliquishness on their part, I couldn't get in. Now I am in one of those groups, and I don't quite know how it happened, and that's somewhat worrisome.
- laura x
Pulling the on-this-thread's-topic part of Joe's comment from D0r0th34's feed: "The leadership of ALA does seem pretty clubbish, and 95% of the ALA/ACRL members are not part of that restrictive club." To which I suggest that *any* established group with some intra-group history is clique-ish with it's own in-jokes and nonsensical organizational zeitgeist... and I will now resist making any in jokes to appear more open and welcoming... :)
- awd
Maybe a feature we should suggest to FF is the option to open a post on a private feed...
- D0r0th34
Laura: I've always felt like I was excluded from the cool kids, too. What I do now is form my own groups & pretend I'm cool. And associate with other people, like you, DJF, Lawson, Dorothea, Rachel, etc who I think are cool. *You* may not think you're cool, but *I* do.
- josh neff, geek at large
I think I might argue that job one for professional development is to find a group/committee/division/club/clique that is appropriate to your job/career/interests and *make yourself an insider*. Different groups will have different requirements and be more or less exclusive, but no one is going to recruit you. I am sympathetic to the shy, and censorious of the snooty, but really--find a good group and be an asset to that group.
- s t e v e
"What I do now is form my own groups & pretend I'm cool." That's part of being a grown-up, I think.
- s t e v e
Now concerning Sisyphus's (Aaron's) comment to my comment on Dorothea's Feed... Aaron, I think you are very open and welcoming. I could always work on my small-talk welcoming skills at conferences and social networking sites.
- Joe
I do not deny being geeky. There would be little point. Luckily, I think it's cool to be geeky.
- josh neff, geek at large
But the point isn't whether we're cool or not in some grand sense--it's that we *seem* cool and hence intimidating unwelcoming to some people--and that bothers me. I'm about to start busting out the golden rule and so forth, so I'll shut up now.
- laura x
Well, there are other ways to make an impact besides joining groups. I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that I am something of a lone wolf. It's not that I *can't* join a group or do well in one; I can, and I've proven that. It's that the friction and overhead involved *for me* in doing Group Stuff causes enough frustration for me that I make more impact doing a lone-wolf thing like a presentation or an article.
- D0r0th34
"But the point isn't whether we're cool or not in some grand sense--it's that we *seem* cool and hence intimidating unwelcoming to some people--and that bothers me" I hear that, but I'm not sure if that's "the point." The point might be, what can we *do* about seeming unwelcoming?
- s t e v e
Well, again, Laura, we can't be welcoming to *everyone*. Like Steve said, I'm sympathetic to the shy (totally been there!) & scornful of the snotty, but at the end of the day, if I ever felt too shy to join a group, that was no one's problem but mine. I don't know how to be any less imposing than I already am, so if people are too scared to talk to me, I can't help them.
- josh neff, geek at large
But Dorothea, from my POV, you are in the thick of several groups--the repository group, the scholarly communications group, the blogosphere group.
- s t e v e
Hm. Let me see if I can ask this question without being leading... no, I can't. Laura, do you think the LSW has any unconsidered privilege issues? If so, we should definitely think about and address them.
- D0r0th34
Steve, those aren't "groups" the way the LSW is. Repos have no group in the US. Scholcomm has a bazillion, none of which I'm particularly part of. The blogosphere is incoherent.
- D0r0th34
I'm not privvy to Dorothea's thread, but I wanted to chime in that chatting with LSW folks online has made the prospect of real life library conferences *less* intimidating to me, because I'll "know" more people going in. That's more a function of library people being online and participatory in general, not LSW specifically, except that LSW provides that "center of gravity" Steve mentions.
- Rachel Walden
Are you kidding, D0r0th34? You created a group out of nothingness (the Repository Rats) and are the spear people use to pop the ignorance bubble about decisions made to do or not to do an IR. It may not seem that way to the insiders, but the non-Rats do look to you for reality checks *goes all fanboi*
- awd
Yeah, I think they do, Aaron, *but* that isn't a function of a group I've joined; it's a function of the essentially lone-wolf acts of publishing Roach Motel and being effing LOUD on CavLec. Do you see the difference I'm trying to get at?
- D0r0th34
I think what you're saying, Dorothea, is that being associated with others is not the same as working in a group. Do I have that right?
- josh neff, geek at large
Dorothea, those count as the kinds of groups I was talking about. I forgot "create a group," but really, it's exactly what I meant: find people outside your institution to talk and argue and share ideas with.
- s t e v e
I don't have answers or solutions for any of these things; I just think about them. As for unconsidered privilege issues: well, there is to begin with the fact that most of us have unfettered internet access (something that is not always true if you are, say, a school librarian) and jobs that give us enough leeway to try this stuff out. The LSW has more men than librarianship as a whole, although probably not more than the techie end of librarianship.
- laura x
But, Steve, I mostly haven't DONE that wrt repositories or scholcomm! When I say that repo-rats are isolated, that's exactly what I mean. There ISN'T a bunch of us shooting the virtual breeze, and when I've tried to start such groups (more than once!), I've failed. The person I argue and share ideas with is basically myself, via the blog.
- D0r0th34
OK. So that leaves us with us. ;)
- s t e v e
Exactly. :)
- D0r0th34
Woo hoo! We rule! Wait...
- s t e v e
Laura, the LSW got started *because* of free & easy web tools, so yeah, it's kind of based around constant, high-speed internet access. I have thought about presenting on lower tech ways of doing similar things. Unconferences are one way. Zines or something could be another. As for the gender thing...is there something about the LSW that excludes or marginalizes women? I would hate for that to be the case.
- josh neff, geek at large
Also, there are more caucasians in the LSW than people of color.
- josh neff, geek at large
Josh, I obviously can't answer for all women in libnship, but I will say that I seem to have a very sensitive nose for gender privilege, and I haven't noticed anything problematic in the LSW.
- D0r0th34
Well, there are more white folks in librarianship in general than there are people of color; I don't know that the ratio is different in the LSW. And I don't *think* that the LSW marginalizes women, but I'm always slightly disturbed by how many male presenters there are at ITI conferences (and, for that matter, at ALA conferences).
- laura x
Thanks, Dorothea. Yeah, that bothers me, too, Laura.
- josh neff, geek at large
Maybe that could be the LSW's next guerilla action, Laura and Josh. ;)
- D0r0th34
I'm doing my part by *not* presenting at any ITI conferences this year. ;)
- josh neff, geek at large
It's more than just smoke-filled rooms. The more work I do with LITA, the more I think that the whole structure of the big organizations are irrevocably broken in ways that can't be fixed. BIGWIG and LSW are helping reform collaboration and effort for the future.
- Jason Griffey
from twhirl
Like I said. Changing the world out from under people. Go BIGWIG!
- D0r0th34
Ok, jumping late w/ my 2 farthings. I've discussed this before with some of you. I think there are some differences with online social networks that are significant when compared to purely professional groups. The LSW is a pro group, but different in so many ways. A prof assn. still has a social aspect, but is more focused. I think the LSW is much more social, and possibly defined by that. Twitter and the rest are open unless you stay private, and then it's still fairly easy to follow someone
- Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock
if you try. Subsets of groups, cliques, if you will, are going to self-select based on commonalities and personalities. The shy, socially challenged, and loners will walk the periphery until they are able to let themselves participate or get pulled in by someone who is already 'in'. I came to CiL in 2006 for the first time and only knew one person there. I felt lonely, but went out and...
more...
- Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock
When it comes to the social groups that form out of the professional organizations it is purely personal. You hang out with people you know and like, people who are fun to be around and whose personality quirks and idiosyncrasies are bearable enough to allow interpersonal communication. There's nothing we can or should do about that. The door is open - come in and join us. We hope you like us, and we want to like you. Don't be an ass or weirdo and we probably will.
- Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock
I'm a "puller in'er". I have always included folks who are on the outside because I have been there many times myself. I have also learned that I tend to attract folks that others don't always get along with. I have often included those folks with disastrous results for everyone. So, i have learned to mix and match my groups of friends. There will always be a back room where people go to meet apart from the main group. If you aren't there you should definitely MAKE YOUR OWN. That's the beauty of the LSW
- Rev. Dr. W!cKeD Rock
Re: the LSW presentation, I blame whoever rickrolled us. :P
- Laura H.
@erindowney if you want something cold for your throat & want to get out of the house, it's free cone day at Ben & Jerry's.
And .50 iced coffee day at dunkin donuts :)
- Rachel Singer Gordon
I have an HP laserjet printer that is thinking it's fun to print a big thick streaky line down the left-hand side of every page. Tried cleaning it, cleaning paper, changing cartridges -- anything else I can do?
Anyone? this is making me nuts! :)
- Rachel Singer Gordon
i'd say if you've tried changing the cartridges, it sounds like the carrier/holder has gotten messed up for some reason. i don't know of a solution to that though other than taking it out to look at it
- Sir Shuping
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