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Rachel Singer Gordon › Likes
Happy 11th, LISNews! - http://shelfcheck.blogspot.com/2010...
Mar₭ Liŋdŋer, Rachel Singer Gordon and ♫410 I Coach 'em Up♫ liked this
A friend passed along a link to this blog posting about "structurelessness" in organizations, and I realized a little while later that, while it was originally about feminism and women in open source, it's also applicable to the LSW's own brand of anarchy. http://eaves.ca/2009...
awd, tara, suelibrarian and 6 other people liked this
But the discussion of "elites" and what an "elite" is are still relevant, I think.
- DJF
Yes. I think author is write in suggesting that that sort of an elite is inevitable. I'd like to think that we are a fairly welcoming elite, and an elite that values criticism, and an elite that encourages behavior that is helpful, but I don't doubt that the elite exists.
- laura x
Fascinating post that I have read quickly. I need to go back and read the linked articles. Josh tries to address some of this in his zine article, where he basically says "if you want to change the LSW, just participate or start your own splinter group." (i.e. "fork"). What is the LSW structure? What are our rules? There's Josh, who started the thing. There's me who has done a handful...
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- Steele Lawman
Steve, There's nothing wrong with a hierarchy or relative authority based on length or amount of participation. What the article is arguing is that it's better to recognize that this happens, so that newcomers aren't floundering wondering what's going on. By saying "Yes, I've been here the longest, and have done a bunch of things," you acknowledge that others might see you as a "leader" of this "leaderless" group.
- DJF
And...heh. You edited just as I was about to ask if you had a good idea of how to tell. I know some people have felt alienated by personality issues, language, the not-very-professional parts of our not-all-that-professional group.
- Steele Lawman
Right, DJF, I'll cop to that. I think Josh and I both try to acknowledge that, but also say "PLEASE come up with LSW stuff on your own," and many people have--making ribbons for conferences, starting LSW presences on other social networks and so on.
- Steele Lawman
As for forking, it would be fascinating and awful and hilarious if someone tried to fork it in a way that "we" would hate. Paris Dada vs. Zurich Dada! You are no longer a Surrealist according to this manifesto I just wrote!
- Steele Lawman
I think, though, that there's a perception of cool that is intimidating to people (I suspect). I think the LSW is far more welcoming than, say, a high school clique, but if part of your goal in joining is to be liked and welcomed, you'll want to do things that the group thinks are cool, and people have a lot of anxiety about that.
- laura x
I totally agree, Laura. Do you think we do an OK job of lowering that bar? Or is there something else we could do?
- Steele Lawman
There is definitely a perception of cool that is intimidating *at first* but my experience, at least, is that once you gather the courage to step over that barrier and post to FF (or, in my case, sit down on the floor at LobbyCon), the welcoming aspect completely overwhelms the barrier and one is left thinking, "I was intimidated by these people? Really?"
- Catherine Pellegrino
"I was intimidated by these people? Really?" LOL "What a bunch of dorks! I can be queen of this group and have a dork army to do my bidding!"
- Steele Lawman
I don't know. As I said, I think we're generally welcoming (as Catherine just said), or more welcoming than many elites, but I don't really know how you lower that barrier. I think I would rather concentrate on not having our interactions with one another become toxic, which is another thing that often happens.
- laura x
OK. So be conscious, conscientious, cool (but not too cool) and keep on truckin'?
- Steele Lawman
Two possible suggestions for lowering the intimidation bar: (ir)regular "de-lurking" invitations in the FF room, along the lines of "introduce yourself!" (Like Shovers & Makers, but lower-key). Also, "Bring a Friend" invitations where LSW members invite someone they know who they think would like the LSW to come check it out, er, somehow.
- Catherine Pellegrino
I know that when I wore my LSW ribbon at the Access, I got a lot of questions, and I'm pretty sure I didn't explain it very well, but I know that other people at the conference were also explaining what was going on
- DJF
I only wish I'd taken some to the Linux Fest last weekend. That would have been amusing
- DJF
I go back to Clay Shirky's thing about how the internet is held up by love. I don't know if his talk stands up to rigorous inquiry, but I do feel that one of the main reason LSW exists is because we wake up each day loving the idea and loving each other and create it anew each day. I mean it so very sincerely that I love the LSW and the people in it, and am grateful for this group, whatever it is.
- Steele Lawman
Well, one person did walk (cough) and sort-of said why...but he didn't walk all that far, and he sort of crept back partway, singing "but I did not shoot the deputy..." under his breath. Unfortunately, sometimes he now refers to himself in the third person...but doesn't think the LSW needs to or should change.
- Walt Crawford
I wasn't going to bring up any specifics about that person, but if people think that some of the dominant personalities here are too dominant, or just rub them the wrong way, this could certainly be a difficult place to spend your time. I wonder what the LSW room would look like if you had me blocked? That would be great.
- Steele Lawman
Also, don't harsh my mellow, Crawford.
- Steele Lawman
Josh: Of course there's something blocking their way--it probably wouldn't work, and it certainly wouldn't have the LSW people in it. (Doing the same idea in another field: That might work.) Steve: I'm mellowing your harsh--this apostate did come back, didn't she? Or he, or whatever? And the person in question only has one block, not in any way related to LSW. He wouldn't think of blocking NeffLawson & Co.
- Walt Crawford
There is a lovely, lovely passage from a letter from the Berkeley Free Speech Movement (nods to Walt) that I would like to add to this thread, and if I find it tonight, I'll type it up for you. But it talks about how the members of the movement worked together and learned together and ultimately, "found flowering within ourselves the very presence whose absence we were, at heart, protesting."
- laura x
Nods back, although, shamefully, I was only an observer at the time. (OK, I was also only a frosh or sophomore...)
- Walt Crawford
I'm not entirely convinced it hasn't worked *already*. I have no evidence of this, but it seems entirely plausible that someone has peeked in on LSW, thought "these are a bunch of wankers" and gone off to form some other more low-key group that better fit her personality.
- Steele Lawman
Maybe I'm saying it wrong. It's not that you couldn't start a new LSW-like disorganization; it's that, at least within the same general space, it wouldn't attract enough of the same kind of people--'cause they're already in LSW. On the other hand, an LSW-like disorganization clustering school librarian types, or plumbers, or whatever...yeah, that could work great.
- Walt Crawford
Hmm. The BSW (Blue Skunks of the World)...there's an idea.
- Walt Crawford
Well, I guess I was thinking of being at ALA and people saying "are you going to the Facebook meetup" and I was all "the whatbook whatup?" Because I'm not in that group. But other people are and they find it meaningful and collegial enough to schedule a meetup and all. But yes, an actual splinter group, like "I'm leaving and taking my faction with me" would be weird/impossible.
- Steele Lawman
If there was an actual faction, it would be plausible but, I think, stupid. (Maybe the wrong word.) If there's some friction, well, that's life. I hadn't thought of the "LSW in other media" version--is there an LSW Ning? (Sorry: Forget I asked that. Please.)
- Walt Crawford
Did I neglect to say it? Laura's quotation is beautiful.
- Steele Lawman
Yes, I should have said that: Laura's quotation is beautiful. (And the FSM was, in its way, a thing of beauty. Wonder whatever happened to the booklength ms. I wrote on FSM's press coverage...on an electric typewriter, using microfilm as source material. Walking uphill in the snow five miles each way. All true but the last.)
- Walt Crawford
Steve, I love your love post.
- maʀtha
There's a LinkedIn group? That does social networking? On LinkedIn? I never woulda guessed. (Maybe because, for me, LinkedIn's mostly been an incredibly extensive and wholly useless set of contacts...I would never have thought of it as a social network)
- Walt Crawford
Interesting. Turns out I'm already a member. And, looking at the interaction, I guess I'd still say "Social networking? On LinkedIn?" There's a level of Earnestness there that I'd expect on LinkedIn--more serious than ALA Connect, and even less lively. But I'll check back frequently--maybe even once a month.
- Walt Crawford
I do so like kgs's (I think) description of LinkedIn as "Facebook as if invented by Microsoft."
- DJF
I was thinking of forming a splinter group / faction / fork called the "Special Libraries Liberation Army" (SLLA) of the LSW.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Nice essay! Applying it to the LSW - the only thing I've noticed so far is similar to what I notice most places on the net, to greater or lesser extent: that, despite its name, the LSW is really pretty America-dominated. Not in an "Only Americans will be welcomed" way of course - just in an "America is the default" way. Proposed meetups are in the US; synchronous chats happen in hours...
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- Deborah Fitchett
Yes, Deborah, good point. And that doesn't even get into non-English speaking people. It's funny because the name was really supposed to sound grandiose. If Josh was being more literal he would have called it "American Librarians Who Like to Joke and Argue Online & Friends." :)
- Steele Lawman
Deborah, the challenge is that we are all victims of the world's timezones. Even within North America, there are definitely communication barriers between the east and west coast caused entirely by the time difference. Friendfeed makes that a bit simpler by being slightly less synchronous than chat, but the problem is still there.
- DJF
@DJF - Yes, I definitely understand. There's a reason why I participate in LSW mostly on Friendfeed (and why my early days on the internet were mostly on Usenet!) It's not something that bugs me; it's just something I occasionally notice, and even more occasionally feel vaguely on-the-outskirts because of.
- Deborah Fitchett
@Steve - Fair enough! Heh, at one stage I was doing an irregular series of blog round-ups of non-English library blog posts, because there's so much going on that we never hear about. But then other interests took over, and now it's on my list of Things I Must Get Back To Sometime.
- Deborah Fitchett
Cripes, I can't find the piece of paper where I wrote down the whole quotation, but I'll keep looking. And if I can remember anything at all more about the book it came from, I may ask one of you people in a large place to try to find it for me, since Google Books is so far failing me.
- laura x
Thanks, Steven! That's where I got my "seed" of French, Spanish, Danish and Swedish library blogs but I should take look for other countries now that Google Reader does its (sometimes hilarious) auto-translate thing. Interestingly it was mentioned by some NZ tweeps this morning, and consensus was that the NZ section was already out of date. Things change quickly online... :-)
- Deborah Fitchett
ALA out of control? Does nothing for its members? Better than sliced bread?
Jenny Levine, Rachel Singer Gordon, Sir Shuping is just sir and John Dupuis liked this
Split off from: http://ff.im/axiLk
- Steele Lawman
Am not! I'm just trying to save Luke's thread. (Well maybe I am a little.)
- Steele Lawman
Steve saved me the trouble. I'm honestly curious. "I don't like ALA/it doesn't serve my needs" is one thing, and certainly true for many. "ALA is broken/out of control/useless/soon to be defunct" is quite another...and, if true, would seem to have some visible signs. For me, ASIST was broken many years ago, and I left--but I didn't take that to mean "ASIST is [generally] broken." So, I'm clearly not getting something.
- Walt Crawford
I would say that because ALA wants to be & do everything, they effectively accomplish nothing. I would join *just* ACRL & various other in-ALA groups that meet my needs (as opposed to the social roundtables, the "Save Guam sea turtles, and various other stuff), but you have to also get the whole ALA infrastructure - and price inflation - because it's under the ALA umbrella. Meh, I say....
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- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
For me, ALA just doesn't resonate. I'm pretty sure I'll join again at some point when some section or division is compelling enough to make me want to do it. But the group as a whole--I dunno. I can't see any difference whether it exists or not.
- Steele Lawman
When this question has come up before, the answer to the money thing is always "that all goes towards advocacy." But given that in situs like the Philly Free Library I saw more brouhaha in online networks than out of ALA on the Hill, it just doesnt ring true. And my personal philosophy tends to be "if it's not useful, drop it." And so, ALA loses because it doesnt make itself useful to me.
- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
I really wish I could just be a member of ACRL, but I have to belong to ALA to be in ACRL...
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
And to pre-empt the "well then join & change it" - thanks, I have a full time job and a life already. I'm not interested in forcing an organization back to what its core mission was supposed to be in the first place, which is to support libraries, and ostensibly librarians in the profession. If you cant do that, then I'll find another org. I think this is why SLA (ASKPro, whatever) has become so popular. it's got better focus.
- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
I'll argue that the Washington office and OIF have both been very effective--and that the Annual Conference does a better job of bringing diverse librarians together than anybody else. Otherwise, I've heard several "why ALA doesn't work *for me*" answers, all of which are entirely legitimate. For you. California Library Association doesn't work *for me,* which is why I'm not a member--but I don't quite call CLA broken for everybody.
- Walt Crawford
I could respond to a couple of things (e.g., the conference programming timeline is down to a year, and Jason G. and others are pushing to get it down further; $400? really?; and I reject the notion that nobody but doctors can take stands on health insurance policy)--but I've done my bit for ALA, and I'm just curious here. So far, I'm getting "ALA isn't for everybody." A sentiment that I'd heartily agree with, since no association is.
- Walt Crawford
Walt - all true. And very true about the diversity at Annual. Again, I consider ALA simply not cost-effective for my purposes (my membership lapses and re-ups according to how flush my budget gets), and the committees I've been on have been a whole lot of smoke and not much accomplishment, which drives me nuts. but other people joining & engaging through it doesnt offend me. I'll likely...
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- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
[Full disclosure: I am not currently an ALA member, though I have been in the past and may be again in the future] I think there's a certain misunderstanding about the way ALA runs. Resolutions are passed by ALA Council, which is a group elected by the membership that meets twice a year (and is thus unable to do much in a really timely fashion). I am actually in favor of professional...
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- laura x
I suspect there's a reason ALA doesn't do much with the Council-passed political resolutions. There's no way (I can think of) to prevent them without emasculating the organization--I mean, *everything's* political at some point--but ALA's pretty good at targeting *real* advocacy (OIF, Washington Office, the new merged Friends/Trustees division) and letting the other stuff just sit there.
- Walt Crawford
Lots of good stuff here, guys. As someone who's working his ass off to change ALA, I'll just say this: I think it's important for there to be an organization of some type for Librarians, but since I disagree with lots of the things that they are doing, I'm running for ALA Councilor at Large this year, along with a cadre of like-minded fellow librarians. I understand the "it's not for me" attitude, though.
- Jason Griffey
One issue that those of you who want to join only *parts* of ALA is that there is a lot of overhead and support which "big-ALA" provides to the smaller pieces. The dues for those units would be much, much higher if they had to provide those pieces themselves. Those things include little stuff like: office space, graphics talent, being part of a larger health plan [have you ever priced...
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- Michael Golrick
Jill, on the issue of stands. I am proud that I voted for the health care resolution. There are many libraries which cannot provide health insurance to staff because of the current flawed system. If you had picked Cuba, we might have had a different conversation. I hope that Jason Griffey is elected. Vote in the election!
- Michael Golrick
Yup. There are a number of folks running this go round - including griffey (and is Dobbs on the ticket too?) that I would be thrilled to vote for if I were a member. That alone may be worth digging up the rejoin fee, to see how some of the go-getters will change the direction of a behemoth like ALA. Lots of folks will be watching.
- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
Just a little historical perspective: ALA and state library associations have had positions on seemingly non-library issues for a long time. This statement from the Wisconsin Library Commission during the WWI era was typical: http://harmoniasnecklace.blogspot.com/2008... Many statements extended beyond the use of literature and into the realm of everyday life. ALA policy was to support the war and the organization was very vocal.
- Katy S
Colleen, I'm not on the ballot this coming election - thanks to (iirc) ~4300+ people I was elected to a full 3 year term last year, I'll run for a seat on Council again in 2012 (assuming I don't do anything rash like run a last-minute campaign for ALA President on a platform informed by LSW values or something crazy like that)
- awd
Jill, way back up the thread you linked to a letter from the ALA Washington Office about ALA's recent Health Care reform resolution and closed with: "We're not doctors." -- Neither are the lawmakers (nor most of the advocates for any side) who are discussing reforming health care... what does the lack of an M.D. degree have to do with having opinions about the shape of health care in the future?
- awd
The ALA resolution *does not* prescribe a solution, the resolution says ALA supports reforming health care and spells out a preference which will benefit libraries and library workers. *If* reform does not include single payer (and I think there is no way single payer will happen this time around) then we would like to see a public option included. Whereas #4 and #5 spell out why this...
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- awd
If ALA isn't a good fit or you feel it's not where your money gets an acceptable return/value, I'm not saying you're wrong here, btw. (whoa, saying *that* in a public forum just killed my chance of getting elected ALA pres, right? Hope not...)
- awd
This will sound totally wrong, but if you were to write up all your points in this thread (I kinda just pulled a bunch of stuff from this thread together) and posited a suggestion or solution for several (not even all of them) and ran for Council I bet you'd get a lot of votes. The trick, then, would be affording the meatspace trips to wherever Council meets for the next 3 years. (ps I'm taking notes from LSW posts in case I end up being rash)
- awd
This, of course, assumes that one *wants* to be on Council (and I'm delighted that there are others who do!). As for ALA Pres...really? You're that close to effective retirement or can afford a one-year sabbatical? (For the record: Saying "If ALA isn't right for you, that's OK too" would be a plus in my book for someone running for prez.)
- Walt Crawford
Agreed on Fiona's "Association presidency should not be a near-retirement job." -- Sure, a president should have a good grasp of the various issues confronting the Association and its members - but being near retirement should not be a major consideration (handy, perhaps, no argument there, but not a decision point)
- awd
Aaron: I'm just saying that the ALA presidency is a *lot* of work--it appears to be nearly a full-time job. But I withdraw the "near retirement"--if you can get back into a position after a year "out," that's great.
- Walt Crawford
Fiona: I think a number of organizations have effectively given the president most of a year off, and it does seem to me that some ALA pres'es essentially retire after being Pres or Past Prez. For some organizations, the prestige of having an ALA Pres may be worth the lack of on-the-job effectiveness. And I could be wrong about how big a load it is; I've only been a division president, and that's actually a piece of cake (for LITA, at least).
- Walt Crawford
If Aaron is really going to nick some LSW ideas as part of his presidency, I'm assuming he means that he wouldn't actually do anything but leave it up to the membership to do whatever the heck they think would be fun/useful.
- Steele Lawman
Steve! Shh! :)
- awd
Joan one nice thing about ALA committees is: the meatspace meetings are not required so long as you participate in the between-meetings discussions/planning/activity. (this (finally) got changed for (almost) all ALA committees last January) -- tips for getting involved, volunteer on the committee volunteer form (pick things which interest you, write a personal note to the Pres Elect in...
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- awd
can someone help? my eyes just rolled so hard I think they got stuck.
Rachel Singer Gordon, Slavomira, Kol Tregaskes and 24 other people liked this
Snarky Holly is jaded.
- holly #ravingfangirl
*yawn* *changes the channel*
- Mary Carmen
If I'd wanted to be a rock star, I would've learned to play guitar.
- Kirsten
do rock star librarians get paid more than regular librarians? i could always go for a pay raise...how bad are the groupies?
- Sir Shuping is just sir
LOL - I hadn't considered the groupie factor. this may change my opinion! ;)
- holly #ravingfangirl
Real rock stars are, at least some of them, musicians. I'd guess the average earnings of rock musicians from rock music make library salaries look pretty good by comparison. A handful of them become rockstars--usually for a while. So, you know, be careful what you wish for.
- Walt Crawford
*sigh* *goes back to doing her job well, unconcerned with rockstar status*
- Jenica
What doofus wrote this, Holly? "Rockstar" is such a stupid metaphor. How about: "Are your librarians valued, valuable, essential resources to your community? If not, should they maybe consider wearing leather pants? Hmmmm?" Doofus.
- David Rothman (☤)
I cant afford the hookers and blow it takes to be a rockstar...
- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
Interesting that the meaning behind the question is being obfuscated with the snark...
- awd
librarians are not rockstars. They are (in the PL) municipal employees: underpaid, overworked, and the brunt of everyone's complaints. Much of this also holds in the academic world, although I have found there to be fewer complaints in the academy.
- DJF
I am a rockstar, but not when I'm at work.
- kendrak
kendra *is* a rockstar. truth.
- holly #ravingfangirl
To prove this, I will have a Thee Kendrak Attack Performance at IL.
- kendrak
WOO!
- holly #ravingfangirl
Aaron: I think the snark uncovers something here--"rockstar status" may not be ideal or even what you're looking for. Valued contributors aren't usually rockstars...
- Walt Crawford
So you are saying I *shouldn't* install a pyrotechnic display behind the reference desk?
- Steele Lawman
Steve, make sure to chain all the firedoors closed before you set the display off, to get the maximum effect.
- DJF
Students love our fog machine.
- kendrak
The "rockstar" language that we often see is funny to me since rockstars seem to have less and less cultural currency anyway.There are pop stars, and there are quasi-indie pseudo-stars like Radiohead. But the idea of the "rock star" as the guy in the leather pants with the groupies and the eye makeup and the half-hour drum solo--those guys are dinosaurs. So the last thing we want to be should be rock stars. Gee, this is like a blog post.
- Steele Lawman
Steve, you make an excellent point. How many people actually want that sort of thing anyhow? This weekend I hung out with the "rockstars" of my youth, and their appeal didn't come from leather pants or mega drum solos, but from an amazing attitude and energy and some amazing songs. That's what I want to emulate. Now, I'll never be the Operation Ivy of the library world, or even Rancid, but what about Common Rider or Schlong?
- kendrak
The only rockstars in librarianship are the Dutch Boys. That's because they have accents, leather jackets and groupies.
- Chelle Chelle Ro Ro
And they travel around the country in a van and are a little older than you might expect.
- Steele Lawman
Kendra, if I could be the Cometbus of libraries, I'd be a very happy man.
- Steele Lawman
I think you're not far off. I don't know who I'd want to be. Not really Jesse Michaels, not Dr Frank, I'll go for my gut and my heart and want to be the Dallas Denery of the library world. It's totally achievable.
- kendrak
I'm a studio player. No fame, but a moderately steady paycheque.
- DJF
Not too hard to guess, Steve. I know my age peers when I see 'em.
- Chelle Chelle Ro Ro
And, you know, not all of us are wildly in love with the Dutch Boys. (Ducks and runs away.)
- Walt Crawford
no need to run away, Walt. that is a-okay in my thread!
- holly #ravingfangirl
Clothing Line: "Break the mold join the rock star librarian movement!" http://www.zazzle.com/rocksta...
- Jason - The Opaque
Jason, that makes me think of "you are unique, just like everyone else."
- Royce's favorite Anna
totally: everyone can be a rockstar librarian 9if you wear our clothes)
- Jason - The Opaque
to me, it just smacks of TRYING TOO HARD. all of this rockstar stuff does.
- holly #ravingfangirl
Nancy Pearl: "The original RockStar Librarian" http://bookchase.blogspot.com/2007...
- Jason - The Opaque
Cynthia Wilson =Rockstar Librarian http://www.myspace.com/iamalib...
- Jason - The Opaque
Ok, going back on myself a little: I like a little rockstar now and then. And the Dutch guys seem like pretty decent ones. They give real interviews where they give their subjects time to talk. They seem to get librarians generally feeling good about libraries and the work we do. I'm eating meringue cookies as I type this: I can't live on meringue cookies, but I don't have to.
- Steele Lawman
that's cool, Steve. I know lotsa people like 'em, they just don't do it for me. kinda like cilantro. and licorice.
- holly #ravingfangirl
HOW AWESOME WOULD IT BE IF THAT *WAS* PRINCE?
- Steele Lawman
Well, I was running away to logoff and get lunch. To clarify: Not in love with means what it says. I see what they're doing, they seem like decent folks...but I also noticed the way they managed to treat apparently-non-rockstars as invisible in at least one social setting, navigating automatically to The Hot Folks. Which is OK, but doesn't require my admiration. But, as you suggest, nothing wrong with rockstars...once in a while.
- Walt Crawford
This is from David Lee King who I DO like, and who I like more than other people who I would have expected to say something like this (and who will remain nameless).
- Gershbec
David Rothman - I'm the doofus who wrote this. Cool - lots of interesting comments for my impending blog post!
- David Lee King
DLK makes me laugh out loud ;)
- Jason - The Opaque
Remember, I am the Dallas Denery of the library world - obscure but brilliant, with a fair amount of self deprecation.
- kendrak
Oh sheesh people. Some of you are deleting your comments! Get real.
- David Lee King
oh seriously? lame.
- holly #ravingfangirl
quick.. cache... too late.. didn't think to take a screenshot sorry
- Jason - The Opaque
<threadjack>Holly just HAD to drag cilantro into this, didn't you?</threadjack>
- Miriella
No, wait - it's back. That was odd. Sorry - false alarm (very glad for that, too).
- David Lee King
oh good. AND YOU KNOW I DID, MERRY. and I'd do it again ;)
- holly #ravingfangirl
<threadjack>Holly's hatred of Cilantro is a perfectly valid comment</threadjack>
- Jason - The Opaque
OK - my goal with the tweet was to ... well ... get a reaction. Which I apparently did. Yay for me.
- David Lee King
Haters.
- Miriella
But here's what I mean - my library's communication specialist originally said this when a ref lib was worried that something was a bit too much about her (meaning her name and pic were attached). Cm Spec said "yep - my goal is to make YOU the rockstar, not me."
- David Lee King
Meaning - our librarians ARE (well, or should be) a valued resource in the community. Let's take that 1 step further - have people ask for us, want to follow our writing in our library blog posts, want to attend our classes, etc.
- David Lee King
I've heard a manager tell an employee they were a rockstar before (but it kind of sounded like a derogative statement) -as in you put yourself too far out there on the stage.-and- yo should try to do more workwork instead
- Jason - The Opaque
people don't friend brands or books. They friend people. Interesting people. People who call each other doofuses (oh wait - silly barb alert). Want your library to start getting noticed in your town? Start getting out, doing stuff, letting people know your names, etc.
- David Lee King
Lester Public Library's director does that - he's got a column in their local newspaper! People know him.
- David Lee King
So that's where I was headed with those thoughts. Now, you can continue rolling eyes if you need to :-)
- David Lee King
pssshaw...let me show you how to be a Rockstar Librarian. You can help me trash my room in a drunken blackout at CiL.
- W!cKeD
woooooooooo \m/ \m/
- holly #ravingfangirl
who's gonna the gg allin of librarians? this community needs that sort of rebel.
- kendrak
DLK, here's my actual, sincere response: As a librarian, I don't want to be a rockstar, to be ogled from afar and immortalized on an impossible pedestal for doing flashy, sexy things. I want to be respected, valued, and appreciated for the real contributions that I make to my community, and remembered for those things. Alternately, I'd like to be Angelina Jolie. Either would be fine.
- Jenica
i'm more of a superhero in my community, rather than a rockstar: http://orgmonkey.net/?p=696
- Marie
Jenica - that's fair. And I think that there's a large group of librarians that want that. There are others who would rather the community focused on the library's resources, rather than on them personally. And that's just wrong, because the librarian is an amazing resource for the community.
- David Lee King
Hi David! Reading over this, I feel pretty good about my contribution. Certain libraries in certain communities may need a "rock star"--someone who looks good on TV, who can sum up what the library is about in a memorable chorus. In my community, I think the more down-to-earth, DIY punk/hippie thing is a better way to think about it--someone you can share a joke with, ask a stupid question of, someone who will say "wow, I have no idea how to answer your question! That's neat!"
- Steele Lawman
Josh - that's cool. But even then, you are focusing on the people rather than on the stuff, which is what I'm getting at.
- David Lee King
Steve - that works. Someone else said "I'm more of a superhero" above, and Jenica said "valued contributor of community" ... Again, just thinking out loud, but I think some of this is similar to what I'm meaning. It's quite possible that using "rockstar" pushed some buttons (I'm apparently good at that sometimes).
- David Lee King
Josh - B&N has that. Except for the databases. What's the diff?
- David Lee King
Heh, that you are! Naw, I get it--the question seems to be "are your librarians active and known as librarians in your community, and how important is that?" And if you don't know the diff between B&N and the library, I can't help you.
- Steele Lawman
Ye - that's what I'm sayin. And yes, I DO know the diff. But I think it's the librarians that make the difference. We arrange the stuff, we help find it, we teach about it, etc. A library's much more than it's stuff, I think.
- David Lee King
Wondering if I'm more of a Keith Emerson (cult ultratalented prog-rocker) than a Keith Richards (mega-superstar).
- Gershbec
You got me there Josh - I've never worked there. Just know two people now who have or did. Interestingly, the other one plays bass in local KC bands ... and wants to become a librarian, too. ohshootIbroughtitbacktotherockstarsagain!
- David Lee King
DLK: like a church is much more than the building people worship in and the book they read out of? A pastor (insert religious figurehead here) can fire up a church, and members of the church can be beacons of kindness etc... and it is more of a community of information sharing/gathering working together in unison
- Jason - The Opaque
Jason - yep - that's a good analogy, too. Wow. So far, we have rockstars, superheroes, pastors, and valued contributors. And doofuses.
- David Lee King
Rock n' roll library http://www.librarystuff.net/2009...
- Gershbec
I think it's the mission of the library and the mission of the bookstore that make them so different. Competent people in each can make both of them important parts of the community. Yes, we think more of Powells or the Tattered Cover or something when we think of a bookstore as a valued member of the community, but I think a chain store in a town that hasn't had a decent bookstore can...
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- Steele Lawman
Speaking of which, I am going to the Tattered Cover tonight for a book signing...
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Josh - I get that. Really, I do. You say "I believe in the mission of libraries & what they have to offer a community." My earlier thought was this - One thing libraries DO have that they tend to not focus on much (or market) is their staff. We tend to promote the class & the resource before we promote the person behind the class or resource. So I agree with you, but I'm thinking about it from a different angle right now.
- David Lee King
If I hadn't just finished the first draft of an absurdly long Making it Work/Philosophy essay, I'd be tempted to snatch this whole thread for use there...some really good stuff being said here. (I grew up Methodist, and if we had rockstar ministers, they'd be snatched away by other congregations with greater pull at the Conference level, where assignments were made...)
- Walt Crawford
I have to think most everyone here's right. I want to be the earnest contributor, but a large part of my job as director is to be The Voice and The Face. We have to humanize our services as much as we have to build good services...
- Jenica
Good points, Jenica. You are right :-)
- David Lee King
Josh - well, your library is an exception, cause y'all rock (oops - sorry about that :-). I haven't seen many libraries hide librarians (though I do know some, and won't name them) ... but I HAVE seen plenty of librarians hide themselves. Hide themselves behind their stuff, their fears of standing in front of people, their fears of being known (even in my library, just the fact that we...
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- David Lee King
Well ... yeah. I DO think that's a problem. And here's how I'd spin that - a library wants to go in a new direction. Change their name, put faces, names, etc on the website. Go out in the community to attract people to the library and it's stuff (I'm thinking of my recent trip to anythink libraries in the denver area here). If some staff aren't on board ... well, they're not meeting the...
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- David Lee King
Interesting. I have long said that I don't think everyone has to be a "2.0 librarian" or whatever you want to call it, but that everyone does have to accept that libraries are changing and the status quo won't last long. So they don't all have to be guitar heroes, but if the library is going that way, they don't have the right to undermine those kinds of people and programs once they are in place.
- Steele Lawman
I think several of you have made excellent points. I agree with DLKing that libraries need to be as present in their communities as possible, though I would argue that there are different "rockstar curves" (if I may coin a pointless phrase) for different libraries, in the sense that some libraries may have every staff member interacting regularly and thoroughly with the public. Others...
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- Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
In response to something Josh said, I've really struggled here with some of our staff, who are technically front-line staff, but who, given the opportunity, will keep from interacting with the public except at a bare minimum. A pleasant minimum, but still less than we could do. This is not unusual in libraries, as far as I can tell from what I hear from my colleagues. It takes a really...
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- Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
Why? I'll try to answer. I think that "quietly doing their jobs" = complacency and falling into a traditional rut, which = death for the library. Never a good thing - in libraries, in any industry. The book Good to Great talks about that. But I also agree with Louise - this depends on the library and their goals. I also like what she said about "audience." I read somewhere that in a...
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- David Lee King
Just telling you what lots and lots of librarians have told me. For them, "quietly doing their jobs" = no one stepping up to the plate to do the next thing (whatever that thing is) or (even worse) hoping no one notices them so they can minimally function at their job then go home. Effectively? Not sure you CAN be effective AND quiet... depends on what you mean by quiet. Doesn't share ideas at meetings? Doesn't ever have new ideas but still answers questions? What do you mean by quiet and effective?
- David Lee King
See, when I think "rock star", I think about the librarians who have lots of speaking/preso gigs, or a whole lot of exposure beyond their community base, and that the quiet & effective folks we're mentioning just do their jobs and dont go on the circuit as much. And the quiet and ineffective ones need to go or be retrained. But that's my understanding.
- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
Maybe I read your "quiet and effective" statement wrong. Sorry if I did! We might be talking about 2 different things here. Hope so! If they're quiet, and do their jobs well - that's wonderful. I'm certainly not meaning everyone has to be an extrovert! Heck, I'm a huge wallflower. But if they're quiet and don't speak up at a meeting (part of their job IS participating at a meeting) but then complaining about it later... that's something else entirely.
- David Lee King
And I agree with your "puke" thing - in both cases, the person went the extra mile.
- David Lee King
DLK- A doofusy thing is a doofusy thing, no matter who says it. Everyone says 'em. The internet just makes 'em widespread and permanent. I'd like to add that if your ambition as a LIS talking head is to evoke reaction, I strongly suggest pursuing more useful and meaningful ambitions. Your constant message seems to be "do more, be better," - and I love that- but the way that you sometimes say it (hyperbole, radical oversimplification, self-promotion) spoils the appeal of the message for me.
- David Rothman (☤)
Agreed. But I also think that there's a pretty wide space between being a good librarian and being a community "rockstar" that could be explored a bit more by libraries... that's all.
- David Lee King
A couple of comments. First of all, this seems to me to be pretty well the same conversation as all those SLA/ASKPro threads. Who are and what do we do, is there and "old" way vs a "new" way.
- John Dupuis
Know what? Twitter is lousy for nuance. The role of the librarian perhaps deserves more nuance than terms like "rockstar."
- David Rothman (☤)
David Rothman - to each his own. My goal isn't to evoke reaction (though I do that). It's always been to toy with ideas in my head, to share, and to see what others think. OTher people come along for the ride, whether or not they agree, and that's cool
- David Lee King
And I must say - you didn't say "doofusy thing" - You said "what doofus wrote this, Holly?" I agree with your doofusy thing comment. The other? Not so much.
- David Lee King
Second, I think a lot of the discomfort with the Rockstar term has to do with authenticity. When we think rockstar, we think of people who are clearly deluded (ie. Ozzy) and people who are famous for the sake of being famous or who want to be rockstars to show up everyone else or just to show off. I don't think this attracts more librarians or, in fact, most people, when it comes to how they do their jobs. People want to be authentic in their public personas, not something false and uncomfortable.
- John Dupuis
John - you're right, and with my original thoughts, I wasn't going for deluded or fake! I'd just heard the statements more than once and was saying them "out loud." Yes - authenticity is hugely important - we can't be taken seriously otherwise.
- David Lee King
At the same time, it's vitally important for librarians to be deeply connected to their communities, to be involved and visible. But I think the message here is that people want to be the Laurence Lessig or Clay Shirky of their library community outreach, not the Ozzy Osbourne or the Jon & Kate.
- John Dupuis
DLK- sorry, but get over it. You say you wanted to evoke reaction. Fine, here's my reaction: it was a ridiculous thing to say. I didn't know who said it, just that it was ridiculous. I stand by that estimation. Yay! You evoked reaction- so stop portraying hurt feelings over it. If you aren't ready to receive disagreement and criticism, I strongly suggest not constantly posting your opinions online where they are subject to criticism.
- David Rothman (☤)
DLK, that's great, it's just that you're never going to evoke an image of authenticity if you're talking about rockstars. Except for maybe Springsteen, but that's another thread.
- John Dupuis
David - whatever. I disagree. No hurt feeling here - just pointing out what you said. Seriously - I love it when people disagree on my blog, in FF, in twitter, etc. But name-calling, even to anonymous people, is simply not cool. The "reaction" I meant from my original tweet was to say something and have people respond - not to see if I could get anyone riled.
- David Lee King
John - yeah, I think you're right. Interestingly, people like Clay Shirky are called rockstars...
- David Lee King
Several of the libraries I've worked with have been well served to keep some of their librarians hidden. On the other point - I totally want to be the Ozzy Osbourne of Libraryland. lmao In fact, going forward, I'd like to be referred to as the 'Prince of Darkness'. Seriously though, David, 'Rockstar' has connotations in the profession now...as in Colleen's (warmaiden's) definition. So, I think perhaps this is somewhat at the root of this long discussion. *wanders off mumbling*
- W!cKeD
Yep, you are correct I'm thinking, oh Prince of Darkness :-) Bad choice of words on my part.
- David Lee King
David, true about Shirky, but I'm thinking more along the lines of contrasting *wanting* to be a rockstar rather than ending up as one -- although I can only guess at other people's true motivations, of course. Rev D, I was thinking more Ozzy 2009 rather than Ozzy 1975...and I'm afraid I don't know Colleen's rockstar definition -- is there a reference?
- John Dupuis
John - it's in this thread somewhere ... look for The Archangel ωαřмaiden
- David Lee King
Cecily - nice. I like that.
- David Lee King
DLK- Again: get over it. It was a doofusy thing to say and I didn't know who said it. I revise my original statement: "What individual said this ridiculously doofusy thing?" Better?
- David Rothman (☤)
David Rothman - nothing to get over, but yeah - that's better. But really, I much prefer the name a patron called me a month or two ago - "sarcastic library nazi." That is a name worth a couple of giggles, at least :-)
- David Lee King
Cecily - wow - that's a cool project! Yes, I think that would qualify (though I'm starting to shy away from "rockstar" a bit :-). But yes - being a human, a face, an actual person... that's what I'm trying to get at, I think
- David Lee King
DLK- You seriously prefer to be called a Nazi than a doofus? Wow. Just: Wow.
- David Rothman (☤)
oh stop it. It was a joke about a stupid name someone called me who was WAY off her rocker. we chuckled about it at my lib, after everyone agreed that I'm pretty much the exact opposite of a nazi. Sheesh.
- David Lee King
I think the discussion is useful here. The level of snark and one-upsmanship some of the comments have though is frustrating. But I'd advise a few of us to take a chill right about now. Figuring out what is best for libs is what this is all about in the long run.
- Libraryman
*rolls eyes and goes off to hang with Holly*
- David Rothman (☤)
I want to sleep with common people. I want to sleep with common people, like you.
- kendrak
I'll see what I can do.
- kendrak
and dance, and drink, and....
- Libraryman
because there's nothing else to do.
- Jenica
And...scene.
- Steele Lawman
DO ANYBODY NO WHO DERRICK LIKES
- anna sauce
deader than a doornail!
- holly #ravingfangirl
OK, I thought I could close it out, but since there are more comments, I'm gonna say this: While I often disagree with David Lee King about this kind of thing--the emphases he places, the language he uses, the value of "getting reactions"--I respect that he's happy to come in here and talk about it without getting too worked up or personal about it, even when we've been snarky. I think that's pretty cool.
- Steele Lawman
totally agree
- holly #ravingfangirl
Late to the party, but I also fully agree with Steve's last statement.
- Walt Crawford
I was gonna go with Meg FTW, but good point Steve ;)
- Jason - The Opaque
I love this conversation, snark, silliness and all. P.S. I like to think of myself as a roadie. I do a lot of grunt work, but without me, the show doesn't happen. And I still get to take chicks back to my hotel. Er, dudes, whatever.
- Chelle Chelle Ro Ro
As I said on Twitter 5 mins after DLK's post - we should be working to make our users Rock Stars, not ourselves
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
I wrote about this three years ago, but I'm not sure I'd write it again today. http://rochellejustrochelle.ty...
- Chelle Chelle Ro Ro
Things I don't want to see when I turn on "House": Tied score in baseball, bottom of the 10th inning...
Rachel Singer Gordon, Roberto Bonini and Scoble, Alex Scoble liked this
oh, poo. My TiVo will NOT know about that.
- Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
nor will my DVR! hmmm
- Rachel Singer Gordon
David sez: "No one should die because he or she cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke because he or she gets sick. If you agree, please post this as your status for the rest of the day."
Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
Michelle finished the blog post - part-time librarian behind the scenes revealed - http://connectinglibrarian.com/.
Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
If we do another zine for Annual next year, it has to feature a bogus ALA schedule. Some of the stuff in the real event planner is priceless. Like the ACRL program: "DIversity - Canceled."
John Dupuis, holly #ravingfangirl, laura x and 7 other people liked this
We know longer value diversity?
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
well, the ACRL apparently couldn't muster enough interest to follow through...
- DJF
10,001 Ways to Live Large on a Small Budget - http://www.amazon.com/dp...
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Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
“There are more businesses created each year than there are marriages..." http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/news...
Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
LSW's Growing Pains - http://pegasuslibrarian.blogspot.com/2009...
Jill Hurst-Wahl, Sharon Palchak, Yo Joe. No, go slow. and 8 other people liked this
Here's something I've been thinking about lately. Thoughts?
- lris
I think you have some pretty astute observations about how it's growing and what people are starting to look for. And I think I've already seen a few folks tell some of the newer ones, make it what you think it should be. I'm not sure that people need to step back though to decide the future of the group though. I think that the people that are active will make their presence felt and the group will try things out and step in new directions. Some will fail, others will succeed. But I think it
- Sir Shuping is just sir
will be interesting to see what happens next.
- Sir Shuping is just sir
Dorothea: that's because LSW grew out of libraries, so some of the "founding friends" were female, and we all spend most of our time working with women. Code4Lib grew out of programmers: even the women in that group are (unfortunately, in a sense) accustomed to the locker-room feel of the developer-centred environment.
- DJF
Oh that's a wrinkle I hadn't thought of, and I'm still not sure what I think of it. It's weird because I think part of the success so far has been that there's no real conscious structure. People could do whatever and have a name to attach to that. But part of some of the newer frustrations I'm hearing is that there's an expectation of more procedural inclusion rather than assumed inclusion.
- lris
Yes. Absolutely. But is it enough to simply assume it? Part of our past experience with all Groups is that somebody "owns" the group and that ideas have to go through that person or people. I think some people expect to need permission before going and doing things in the name of LSW.
- lris
I mean *we* know they don't need this permission, but do they?
- lris
What's the phrase? "Tolerance for Ambiguity" I think? People who have this ability (as I like to think I do) easily do without formal/conscious structures (as I feel the LSW 'organization' consciously embodies). What is structure beyond potential restriction? Structure allows for building larger entities with specialized sub-domains or sub-specialties - We can hold up ALA as an example of this - LSW started as a reaction against structures like that, but it's only normal for people to ask the questions...
- awd
I agree and really like LSW the way it is now, but let me just play devil's advocate for a minute. You know how ALA responds to criticism of its weakness as a professional development vehicle by saying "We're not actually about PD," and you know how that feels like a cop out since they *do* some PD and therefore are expected to do it well? What if, because the group is now so big, there's an expectation that it'll find a way to have structure without restriction? (I know, I know. Devil's advocate, remember?
- lris
I hope 'newer' members or members who feel a need for more structure feel free to make up something which helps them feel more comfortable, but I also hope the structures created take into account that there are members who feel no particular need for structure and in some cases actively resist structure/stricture :)
- awd
I feel like some of the vitality has left LSW recently and I don't know why. Or maybe activity has shifted away from the Meebo room & twitter to other venues, such as the Shovers and Makers blog. I dunno.
- maʀtha
martha, I wonder if that's partly because of the difficulties of keeping up with multiple social sites? I know recently I've had more trouble with this, and have pulled back a smidge. What is the central communication vehicle for LSW? FriendFeed? Meebo? Twitter?
- Rachel Walden
i think rachel has a good point. because i've drifted away from the meebo chat room, and i'm a peripatetic friendfeed user, i feel like i'm missing a lot of the conversation. i'm glad a lot of you are still using twitter, but even there, i'm just as involved in romancelandia discussions as i am with libraryland ones, so my attention feels split.
- Katie
I think convos have shifted away from the main meebo chat room. I see some stuff happening here on FriendFeed room and some seems to happen spontaneously on people's threads, but I wonder if folks have moved to other areas, individual chats/e-mails. Maybe not?
- Sir Shuping is just sir
Rachel, I agree about the multiple sites. Originally - as Iris mentions- twitter and meebo were key. I don't spend as much time in either place anymore and suspect that others don't either. Also, there are informal social groups that have split off, which is only natural when a group reaches a certain critical mass. With such an anarchic organization, we will get more out of it if we put more in. I think Shovers and Makers is a perfect example of what can happen when someone (carping nerdboys) have a
- maʀtha
brilliant genius idea and then make it manifest. So, I ask myself: What do I want LSW to be and do and become? Is it still important, relevant and useful enough to me for me to invest time and energy in it? Is it time for newer people to embrace their inner leaders and assert themselves with the virtual spaces?
- maʀtha
I have to laugh (in a good, amused way) about Rachel's comment and follow ups to it... Walt (Crawford if you need the clarity) has been saying (for quite a long time, iirc) something along these lines... the multiplication of communication channels is actually a detriment to conversations -- too many places to look to be sure one is not missing a piece of what's going on. If LSW does anything 'organizing-wise' it would be to define our main communications channels (pick 3 or 4) and resist adding any more.
- awd
Agreed about resisting adding more channels. It's hard to tap into the group discussion if the group is everywhere.
- Rachel Walden
It's a problem for sure- even with tools to help follow stuff, at times it's like being a character in a space opera with a squillion info channels open.
- Pete #TeamMonique
I do agree w/ probs of keeping up w/ multiple channels of communication for the most part. However, is the idea of defining/limiting avenues of comm for an organically-evolved, hive-mind-technophilic-group like this a little dangerous? Once you limit something like that, does it make it harder to evolve to meet ever changing needs, environments & tech? Isn't that one of the main shortcomings of more formally defined orgs like ALA? ps: please don't take "hive-mind-technophilic" to mean "borg-like"!
- Dana Longley
Dana, I'm thinking there's probably some middle ground, between "1 official place that must never change to anything else" and having so many places that the usefulness is significantly diluted. What that magic balance is, I'm not sure.
- Rachel Walden
Rachel: well-stated!
- Dana Longley
Josh- you need a Share- Situationist-Prankster CC licence
- Pete #TeamMonique
I'm fairly new to LSW, and thoroughly appreciate the conversations I've followed in FriendFeed. Sure there is benefit to thinking about the future of such a group, but all the same, from what I've seen of LSW's existence and inclusiveness it seems that the members will propel it into exactly the direction it needs to go!
- Galadriel C.
Hear hear, Galadriel. I would also like to note that while I think this kind of introspection is probably beneficial, I don't think it should go on for too long. Too much introspection, however thoughtful, can kill momentum and initiative and all the things I love about this group.
- lris
oh, sure, get us all introspecting and *then* you say this ;)
- maʀtha
Yes, well, I never claimed to be consistent. ;-)
- lris
zactly
- lris
But Iris, I just twisted around to get a really good view of my navel! ;)
- Rachel Walden
LOL. Consider it yoga. Then you'll feel better about it. :-)
- lris
Just wanted to comment on the conversations aspect as it relates to the "W" in LSW. I was/am really keen to be part of this but the time difference and the fact that, unlike @sirexkathyn, I am not a late night person means I keep missing the conversations in the meebo room. At least on FF I can catch up whenever and feel much more part of things.
- suelibrarian
I don't know about forcing people to use only 3-4 certain social networking sites. I am sure next year there will be some new awesome communications tool that is *gasp* better than Twitter. As an organization grows, it is natural for people to faction off a little bit, but the nature of the LSW is that it will be the amoeba that shifts and changes by the minute to fit the needs of the members at the moment -- like daily multiple virtual unconferences.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
I got the meebo room password once but due to timezone issues (like @suelibrarian) missed out on conversations. Then when I tried going back recently it gave me an error - don't know if it's a meebo problem, a "no-one's here anyway" problem, or a "duh, we changed the password *months* ago" problem...
- Deborah Fitchett
@deborahfitchett I tried the room at the same time as I was having the meebo widget issues and had issues with the room as well. I think it was meebo at the time. I havent actually tried since.I could get in irregularly but the password was fine and not the issue
- suelibrarian
Yeah, Meebo's been a little flaky for a while now, unfortunately. It's really too bad, because it was a great place to hang out (er... especially in U.S. time zones), but due to one thing and another participation there has been a whole lot less consistent in the last couple of months, and I'm as much at fault as anyone in that regard. It's been a while since I last logged in.
- lris
I'm inclined to think that consolidating the communication channels of LSW is totally missing the point. It's organic. It's alive. It's everywhere! Let the conversations and activities of the LSW take place wherever one or more members feel inclined to make them happen. So what if you miss something? You're missing something relevant to you somewhere right now anyway. Let it go. The last thing I'd want the LSW to be is a stress inducer and another source of "keeping current" fail.
- Greg Schwartz
Amen
- Jason - The Opaque
Greg (and Joe)-I want to be clear that I'm not at all advocating forcing anything wrt to channels of communication. I think I just worry that there are LSW channels developing or in existence that I'm not aware of that I'd like to be participating in. Which speaks well of LSW to me. ;)
- Rachel Walden
I see. Personally, I do get a little stressed that "I might miss something important," too. I would bet new communications channels will be announced in loads of existing LSWish places. Have you heard of this new Twiter thing? :-)
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Too bad someone else already got http://twitter.com/lsw
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
What I love about LSW is that it's playful and anarchist in the best sense - which means organizing it would break it, right? But there does seem to be a change dynamic for communities that has to do with size and/or changing memberships. I've experienced it in an old-fashioned Yahoo discussion group and tried to diagnose it. Some intimacy and we-get-all-the-jokes familiarity is strained as people join and some people drift away. It's not necessarily bad, but it does come with a twinge of loss.
- barbara fister
This has been most helpful. I didn't really understand it before, but now I can loosely equate it to how Code4Lib got started and flourishes in the library technologist arena. I heard of LSW after it had reached the "A Group" stage, so this summary of its history has been really helpful.
- Peter Murray
I love my computer becouse my friends live in it... - http://vi.sualize.us/view...
Dobromir Hadzhiev, Rachel Singer Gordon, suelibrarian and 10 other people liked this
Oh that's the truth (sad)
- BEX
This hangs above my desk on the wall
- Jesse Stay
Woot! I just won the Joseph & Mary Jackson award for "achievement in faculty development and distinguished accomplishments"! Cool!
Jenica, Rachel Singer Gordon, Jen and 8 other people liked this
Congratulations!!!
- lris
Congrats!
- Mar₭ Liŋdŋer
Congratulations!
- Peter Murray
congrats!
- ~Courtney F
When was the last time someone from the library won that one? I bet you're the first :) go go Griffey
- awd
Congratulations!
- Jason P
Yay! Congratulations!
- laura x
congrats
- Walt Crawford
Of course I hate Passover. Try taking PB&J on matzo to school for lunch. For a week. Every year.
Mary Beth Sancomb Moran, John Dupuis, awd and 2 other people liked this
Hmpf, but I *like* PB&J on matzoh
- awd
You wouldn't after being forced to eat it for a week every year.
- David Rothman (☤)
My mom was into PB&HONEY on matzoh. Now that's a serious soggy mess.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
In elementary school, one of my friend's mothers used to make a giant stack of poori and slap a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly on the table. Heaven!
- maʀtha
What, Commies don't eat PB&J?!?! How unAmerican.
- maʀtha
The only thing I ever liked about Passover was the hunt for the afikomen. Mostly because it signaled the end of another dreadful Seder.
- David Rothman (☤)
How about taking little container of hummus and dipping the matzoh in that? Or even just taking cheese with you some days.
- John Dupuis
John, I'm utterly non-observant now.
- David Rothman (☤)
Actually, now that both my sons are 13+, they've decided not to follow the rules for their Passover packed lunches. Last year, my older son observed in solidarity with his younger brother. I'm not Jewish so it's not an issue for me but my wife was a little wistful that they're not going along this year.
- John Dupuis
Hah! Thanks, Rachel. :)
- David Rothman (☤)
Pretty darn unobservant here now too, but semi-wistful my kids won't have those memories...
- Rachel Singer Gordon
We have a 10 minute seder with the in-laws -- preceded by crackers and served with bread, and most years kind of in the same month as Passover, so hey.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
We were on an orchestra trip during Passover one year. Lotsa matzoh on the bus. As an honorary Jew, I did get offered a kosher brownie.
- laura x
Making a note that Laura is an honorary Red Sea Pedestrian.
- David Rothman (☤)
This thread kind of makes me want to go buy some matzo after work.
- ellbeecee
I'm starting to think that the Internet is just the latest medium to be controlled by the vast Jewish conspiracy.
- DJF
DJF- Liz bought me a copy of The Big Book of Jewish Conspiracies. Very funny stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Big-Boo...
- David Rothman (☤)
Try having a birthday during passover -- matzoh-meal cake does NOT make the grade.
- Rachel Singer Gordon
I've got a Catholic friend who's birthday is in early April, so it's pretty much always in the middle of Lent. When you're a kid, that's almost as bad.
- DJF
Doing a 15 Minute Presentation in 10 Easy Steps « The Other Librarian - http://otherlibrarian.wordpress.com/2009...
val, an ominous portent, Mar₭ Liŋdŋer, Rachel Singer Gordon and 2 other people liked this
which of these is not like the other? - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
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Rachel Singer Gordon and αnnα vαȵ scoyoç liked this
CIL2009: Random lunch conversation - http://hurstassociates.blogspot.com/2009...
Steele Lawman, Rachel Singer Gordon and Sir Shuping is just sir liked this
pictures will be uploaded tonight. was truly amazing
- ♫410 I Coach 'em Up♫
#cil09 Just had dinner with all authors and future authors (like me) of Information Today. We had lots of fun and dinner was great! - http://twitter.com/kselhor...
Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
» I Asked 15 People How They Would Google Headaches, You Won’t Believe The Results - http://www.97thfloor.com/blog...
Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
I think this illustrates part of our failings as librarians in expecting people to search a "proper" way in our databases
- Mary DeSive
On the ALA Membership Pyramid | In the Library with the Lead Pipe - http://inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2008...
Jason Griffey and Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
"We need to think creatively and to create programs and workshops that embrace virtual participation. We need to break the mold of traditional ALA membership. The next time you attend a conference or a committee meeting, bring up these issues and ask questions. Propose and implement pilot service projects at a conference and publish your successes and challenges. Help to create new models of participation and share them with your professional community. The more experimenting we do at a grassroots level the more we are able to best find the models of participation, service, and governance for a sustainable and successful ALA. By continuing to adopt these changes in ALA, the membership pyramid will eventually flatten and the globally shaped ALA membership can form."
- Jenny Levine
stick figure beats keyboard - http://www.dragonflightstudio.com/banghea...
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maʀtha, Rachel Singer Gordon and mlrethlefsen liked this
I finally saved the link in delicious so I would never lose it again. :)
- Rachel Walden
I have this taped to my office wall - http://www.blogwithoutalibrary.net/384
Deborah Fitchett, bob, Betsy #TeamMonique and 4 other people liked this
I have this as my desktop as a motivational poster (replacing "him" with "it" in my mind) - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Rachel Walden
I'm far too cynical. I have the postcard-sized framed version of this on my desk: http://despair.com/ap24x30...
- DJF
from twhirl
amanda, I need this too! Did you write it??
- Connie Crosby
I have this off to one side behind my monitor: http://tinyurl.com/4cmju5
- Betsy #TeamMonique
I want to gather info on speaker/presenter/trainer expectations for a future blog post. If you are a speaker/trainer/presenter, what info do you expect from the hiring organization? What paperwork do you like to receive? How much contact, etc., do you want? Your thoughts?
jönαthaη, ♫410 I Coach 'em Up♫, Michael Sauers and 2 other people liked this
I've been thinking about this blog post for a long time. I know there has been something written about this in the past, but want to make my post positive and instructional. I know what I want to include, but need to hear your thoughts and ideas.
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
And if you have hired a speaker/trainer/presenter, what information are you looking for?
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
Jill--I'm assuming you've looked at the copious notes I pulled together. If not: http://citesandinsights.info/civ7i7...
- Walt Crawford
You might touch base with Rachel Singer Gordon http://www.lisjobs.com/blog...
- Hedgehog
Walt thanks! There was also a blog post with lots of comments on this, perhaps written by Librarian in Black. Will have to find that....
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
This is a good thread as I'm thinking (more on the venue/online presence side) about conference promotion for our upcoming ICSTI 2009 event.
- Richard Akerman
I believe Meredith Farkas and Dorothea Salo also had something to say on this, but it is all probably referenced in Walt's work.
- Mar₭ Liŋdŋer
I want organizations, if they ask me to speak, to tell me up front -- in the invitation -- if they can or cannot pay speakers, what their conference registration policy is, and what they will do for travel reimbursement. I don't think that it should be the responsibility of the invitee to ask about reasonable compensation.
- Jenica
I've just pulled a posting out of draft about the high-level bits of conference planning. http://scilib.typepad.com/science...
- Richard Akerman
For organizations that are bringing in speakers from afar, I would like info on hotels, airports, etc. Don't assume that I know which airport is close to you and which hotels are the best/most convenient. And if you have a limit on travel funds for speakers, tell me.
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
Okay...you mean no one else has a thought about this? Every speaking gig has providing what you needed upfront and been well organized? You have nothing that you want future organizers to know?
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
+1 Jenica
- Richard Akerman
Ok - where am I standing? how big is the screen? can I bring my laptop? is it ok if my presentation is in Mac Keynote format? Do you need an electronic copy of my slides? How big will the room be? How big will the audience be? are they technical? non-tech? EXACTLY how much time will I have? do they usually ask questions? am I on a panel? who else is speaking?
- Richard Akerman
Jill, I'm having trouble narrowing. I want them to tell me EVERYTHING they know, honestly. If they're putting me up in a hotel, I want them to do the work and tell me about it. If they're arranging travel, I want to know about it. If I'm arranging travel and getting reimbursed, I want to be told about the process. I want to know about the speaker technology. I want to know about expectations. I want to know about the audience. I want to know everything, and the less I have to hunt for, the better.
- Jenica
Jenica, I hear ya! the less mystery about everything, the better. And maybe that the theme of the blog post...Take the Mystery Out of Speaking/Training Opportunities.
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
I agree with all that has been said especially that the details of where I'm presenting and the tech hurdles and having a person there who will be available to assist so I'm not running around trying to figure it all out. But, more importantly, what do they want - in detail - from me. Just a broad idea doesn't work well if I miss the mark and don't deliver what they are asking for. I find a discussion on the phone with the person/persons is MUCH better than doing the communication by email.
- Stephanie Zimmerman
+1 @Candy yeah it is very useful to know how much space and what miking there is, so I know whether I will be able to move around (my preference) or if I have to stand at a podium
- Richard Akerman
Basically, Jill, I think what I want is for any speaking gig to be treated like the business transaction that it is. I want professionalism, I want to be treated well, I want information provided to me as though I matter, and I want a clear understanding of the expectations of me as a consultant, the details of the job, and the places where I will need to be proactive. The burden should not be on the speaker to make that interaction happen.
- Jenica
Thanks all...and keep the comments coming. I'll summarize in a blog post next week and will post the link in Twitter, FF, etc. I have my own ideas/rants on this subject, but truly wanted the input from others. I know that some org's struggle with knowing what to do "with" speakers, so this info will be useful and used.
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
P.S. - I have to wait until next week to do the blog post 'cause I'm swamped this week. Anybody want to help prep for a class or grade papers?
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
Sure, Jill, I'll be happy to grade papers for you! Send 'em on down to me...
- Jill O'Neill
Jill, I'm not providing anything new because I covered so much in C&I--but I'll read your post with interest.
- Walt Crawford
Very late in commenting on this, too much traveling. The most important thing to me is information about the expected audience, what they might already know and what they want to learn. Not always possible I realize. After that, all the other stuff everyone has mentioned, room size, logistics, fees, who's covering what. Contracts are nice!
- pollyalida
I need the ability to present off MY laptop. Therefore I need a Net connection. WiFi or wired doesn't matter. It's not that your laptop isn't any good I just don't know what it has or doesn't. When I use my laptop I know what to expect and what I can use on the fly.
- Michael Sauers
from twhirl
I need information about the network connection (availability, type, speed) but I usually record screencasts and screenshots in advance as well because I assume the Internet won't work anyway.
- Richard Akerman
If doing software training, what software is already in the computer lab? Can the trainer load software? (Stephanie Zimmerman) She wants to talk by phone to the organizer in order to gather details.
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
(Stephanie Zimmerman) Need to understand what the organization really wants. (Maurice Coleman) Need to do a "reference interview" with the organization in order to pull out info.
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
Organizations should post info online about their facilities, expectations, etc. Ask for handouts, etc., in advance so you (org) can be sure the session is on track. [Notes from T is for Training podcast conversation]
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
Will tech support be available, if there are problems?
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
Blog post is done! "Advice to conference/training/event organizers as well as presenters/speakers/trainers" http://tinyurl.com/c6n9am
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
"This is not a Pipe" - Funny, Monsters, Slogans, Cute, Pop Culture, Nerdy T-shirt by Genée Cosden - http://www.threadless.com/product...
Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
Jennifer Aniston's $50K Hairstyle vs. Librarian Pensions - http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...
Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
On not writing - http://freerangelibrarian.com/2009...
Mary DeSive and Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
I have had this problem for most of the past decade. I like to think it's an excuse for why my MFA thesis is such a poor, pitiful thing, but I suspect that may be due as much to laziness as to world events.
- laura x
A Completely Unscientific (Yet Accurate) Look at Social Sites - http://brainz.org/complet...
Jick Nan, Angela P., Nancy Sp♠id and 150 other people liked this
Myspace: "12% Proud owners of butterfly tramp stams 7% Club promoters 27% Bathroom mirror exhibitionists 11% Animated .gif birthday cake comment fairies 17% Investors who gobbled up virual glitter factories on the cheap 24% People that haven't found out about Facebook yet 2% People who can't afford match.com" LOL!!!!!!
- Mona Nomura
That's good stuff!
- Patrick Jordan
ROFL. That's hilarious.
- Anika
Haha.. "Investors who gobbled up virtual glitter factories on the cheap"
- Rodfather
Those numbers are 150% accurate.
- Richard Lawler
Facebook: "15% People who have no idea what is going on, they just like to look at pictures" HAHA
- Mona Nomura
Thats great!
- Bluesun 2600
Scoble doesn't have a twitter %age of his own? Maybe that for FF analysis...
- Rob Kramer
great charts - hope they will add other networks
- Alexander Benker
What's Propeller? This is making me LAUGH "22% SEO Spammers 11% Nigerian Scammers 17% Viagra Spammers 50% Propeller Employees"
- Mona Nomura
man i can relate to so many of these hahahaha
- Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど
Love it!
- sofarsoShawn ~presque...
It's funny because it's true LOL
- Mona Nomura
That's hysterical!
- Shevonne
Whomever did this, just won the internet in my books!
- embee
I can't WAIT to see the next round!!!!!
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Correction: it's funny because it's *extremely* true
- mike fabio
from twhirl
awesome. I should have browsed FriendFeed more before posting this one myself!
- Thomas Hawk
made me laugh
- Richard Akerman
hahhahahhhaha I love the Facebook 12% (or something) that has no clue what's going on but loves looking at pictures -- that's almost all my real life firends on there LOL
- Mona Nomura
from IM
so many damn truths there LOL
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Funny because it's true!
- Ronald S
Somebody had to come up with a piechart for FF
- Jason
now this is FUNNY.
- michael sean wright
Facebook: 13% Our moms. Mom hasn't hit Facebook yet, but she is on Twitter... and followed my husband... and Britney Spears.... BUT NOT ME.
- Pixie
hahhahahhahahha!! Alix LOL!
- Mona Nomura
I guess I'm in the MySpace 12. :)
- EricaJoy
Yeah... and I cant block her mom.... :(
- Shawn Whitmire
I bookmarked this yesterday, hunted all over for copyright notice or authorship, because I want to use it in a presentation. Couldn't find way to attribute aside from URL! Generous folks ...
- Patricia F. Anderson
this is awesome
- Angela P.
I know Mona, the MS categories are hliarious! And what about divorcés on fb?
- fn (fairnymph)
Hey - Myspace is still useful for independent bands! I'm embarrassed to have its iPhone app (on my last page) so I can check up on my band's issues/shows/whining/etc. on the go... We do, however, get lots of friend requests from butterfly tramp stamps, and we deny them because there is no way they looked at our profile. But seriously, if a BAND denies your friendship on MySpace you need to re-evaluate your life.
- Isabelle
Awesome! This is two weeks old but I just found it today.
- Stephan Miller
from Friend Deck
Uncontrolled Vocabulary: Another one down (at least for now) - http://walt.lishost.org/2009...
Daniel Cornwall, Greg Schwartz, Rachel Singer Gordon and Steele Lawman liked this
I almost didn't post this--only because I haven't been a UV regular, although I'm convinced it was/is a great thing. But UV going on hiatus for all the right reasons is, I believe, another symptom...and I felt the need to note that. (Don't overthink conclusions: So far, at least, C&I isn't in imminent danger. I think.)
- Walt Crawford
I totally understand the reasons for going on hiatus. None of us can be 24/7 library stuff for extended periods of time. Greg - Hope you enjoy the extra time to be present to your family and thanks for all you've done.
- Daniel Cornwall
Geek Book - http://geekbook.org/
Rachel Singer Gordon liked this
cool book review site
- David Lee King
20 Tips for Better Conference Speaking http://oedb.org/blogs...
Rachel Singer Gordon and Jill Hurst-Wahl liked this
I wrote a blog post in January with my 7 top presentation tips and have been adding other resources to that, and just added this one. Thanks for the link! Good stuff! (My post is at http://hurstassociates.blogspot.com/2008...)
- Jill Hurst-Wahl
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