A friend passed along a link to this blog posting about "structurelessness" in organizations, and I realized a little while later that, while it was originally about feminism and women in open source, it's also applicable to the LSW's own brand of anarchy.
But the discussion of "elites" and what an "elite" is are still relevant, I think. - DJF
Yes. I think author is write in suggesting that that sort of an elite is inevitable. I'd like to think that we are a fairly welcoming elite, and an elite that values criticism, and an elite that encourages behavior that is helpful, but I don't doubt that the elite exists. - laura x
Steve, There's nothing wrong with a hierarchy or relative authority based on length or amount of participation. What the article is arguing is that it's better to recognize that this happens, so that newcomers aren't floundering wondering what's going on. By saying "Yes, I've been here the longest, and have done a bunch of things," you acknowledge that others might see you as a "leader" of this "leaderless" group. - DJF
I think, though, that there's a perception of cool that is intimidating to people (I suspect). I think the LSW is far more welcoming than, say, a high school clique, but if part of your goal in joining is to be liked and welcomed, you'll want to do things that the group thinks are cool, and people have a lot of anxiety about that. - laura x
There is definitely a perception of cool that is intimidating *at first* but my experience, at least, is that once you gather the courage to step over that barrier and post to FF (or, in my case, sit down on the floor at LobbyCon), the welcoming aspect completely overwhelms the barrier and one is left thinking, "I was intimidated by these people? Really?" - Catherine Pellegrino
I don't know. As I said, I think we're generally welcoming (as Catherine just said), or more welcoming than many elites, but I don't really know how you lower that barrier. I think I would rather concentrate on not having our interactions with one another become toxic, which is another thing that often happens. - laura x
Two possible suggestions for lowering the intimidation bar: (ir)regular "de-lurking" invitations in the FF room, along the lines of "introduce yourself!" (Like Shovers & Makers, but lower-key). Also, "Bring a Friend" invitations where LSW members invite someone they know who they think would like the LSW to come check it out, er, somehow. - Catherine Pellegrino
I know that when I wore my LSW ribbon at the Access, I got a lot of questions, and I'm pretty sure I didn't explain it very well, but I know that other people at the conference were also explaining what was going on - DJF
I only wish I'd taken some to the Linux Fest last weekend. That would have been amusing - DJF
Well, one person did walk (cough) and sort-of said why...but he didn't walk all that far, and he sort of crept back partway, singing "but I did not shoot the deputy..." under his breath. Unfortunately, sometimes he now refers to himself in the third person...but doesn't think the LSW needs to or should change. - walt crawford
Josh: Of course there's something blocking their way--it probably wouldn't work, and it certainly wouldn't have the LSW people in it. (Doing the same idea in another field: That might work.) Steve: I'm mellowing your harsh--this apostate did come back, didn't she? Or he, or whatever? And the person in question only has one block, not in any way related to LSW. He wouldn't think of blocking NeffLawson & Co. - walt crawford
There is a lovely, lovely passage from a letter from the Berkeley Free Speech Movement (nods to Walt) that I would like to add to this thread, and if I find it tonight, I'll type it up for you. But it talks about how the members of the movement worked together and learned together and ultimately, "found flowering within ourselves the very presence whose absence we were, at heart, protesting." - laura x
Nods back, although, shamefully, I was only an observer at the time. (OK, I was also only a frosh or sophomore...) - walt crawford
Maybe I'm saying it wrong. It's not that you couldn't start a new LSW-like disorganization; it's that, at least within the same general space, it wouldn't attract enough of the same kind of people--'cause they're already in LSW. On the other hand, an LSW-like disorganization clustering school librarian types, or plumbers, or whatever...yeah, that could work great. - walt crawford
Hmm. The BSW (Blue Skunks of the World)...there's an idea. - walt crawford
If there was an actual faction, it would be plausible but, I think, stupid. (Maybe the wrong word.) If there's some friction, well, that's life. I hadn't thought of the "LSW in other media" version--is there an LSW Ning? (Sorry: Forget I asked that. Please.) - walt crawford
Yes, I should have said that: Laura's quotation is beautiful. (And the FSM was, in its way, a thing of beauty. Wonder whatever happened to the booklength ms. I wrote on FSM's press coverage...on an electric typewriter, using microfilm as source material. Walking uphill in the snow five miles each way. All true but the last.) - walt crawford
Steve, I love your love post. - maʀtha
There's a LinkedIn group? That does social networking? On LinkedIn? I never woulda guessed. (Maybe because, for me, LinkedIn's mostly been an incredibly extensive and wholly useless set of contacts...I would never have thought of it as a social network) - walt crawford
Interesting. Turns out I'm already a member. And, looking at the interaction, I guess I'd still say "Social networking? On LinkedIn?" There's a level of Earnestness there that I'd expect on LinkedIn--more serious than ALA Connect, and even less lively. But I'll check back frequently--maybe even once a month. - walt crawford
I do so like kgs's (I think) description of LinkedIn as "Facebook as if invented by Microsoft." - DJF
I was thinking of forming a splinter group / faction / fork called the "Special Libraries Liberation Army" (SLLA) of the LSW. - Joe
Nice essay! Applying it to the LSW - the only thing I've noticed so far is similar to what I notice most places on the net, to greater or lesser extent: that, despite its name, the LSW is really pretty America-dominated. Not in an "Only Americans will be welcomed" way of course - just in an "America is the default" way. Proposed meetups are in the US; synchronous chats happen in hours... more... - Deborah Fitchett
Deborah, the challenge is that we are all victims of the world's timezones. Even within North America, there are definitely communication barriers between the east and west coast caused entirely by the time difference. Friendfeed makes that a bit simpler by being slightly less synchronous than chat, but the problem is still there. - DJF
@DJF - Yes, I definitely understand. There's a reason why I participate in LSW mostly on Friendfeed (and why my early days on the internet were mostly on Usenet!) It's not something that bugs me; it's just something I occasionally notice, and even more occasionally feel vaguely on-the-outskirts because of. - Deborah Fitchett
@Steve - Fair enough! Heh, at one stage I was doing an irregular series of blog round-ups of non-English library blog posts, because there's so much going on that we never hear about. But then other interests took over, and now it's on my list of Things I Must Get Back To Sometime. - Deborah Fitchett
Cripes, I can't find the piece of paper where I wrote down the whole quotation, but I'll keep looking. And if I can remember anything at all more about the book it came from, I may ask one of you people in a large place to try to find it for me, since Google Books is so far failing me. - laura x
Thanks, Steven! That's where I got my "seed" of French, Spanish, Danish and Swedish library blogs but I should take look for other countries now that Google Reader does its (sometimes hilarious) auto-translate thing. Interestingly it was mentioned by some NZ tweeps this morning, and consensus was that the NZ section was already out of date. Things change quickly online... :-) - Deborah Fitchett
holly #ravingfangirl
can someone help? my eyes just rolled so hard I think they got stuck.
Snarky Holly is jaded. - holly #ravingfangirl
*yawn* *changes the channel* - Mary Carmen
If I'd wanted to be a rock star, I would've learned to play guitar. - Kirsten
do rock star librarians get paid more than regular librarians? i could always go for a pay bad are the groupies? - Sir Shuping is just sir
LOL - I hadn't considered the groupie factor. this may change my opinion! ;) - holly #ravingfangirl
Real rock stars are, at least some of them, musicians. I'd guess the average earnings of rock musicians from rock music make library salaries look pretty good by comparison. A handful of them become rockstars--usually for a while. So, you know, be careful what you wish for. - walt crawford
*sigh* *goes back to doing her job well, unconcerned with rockstar status* - Jenica
What doofus wrote this, Holly? "Rockstar" is such a stupid metaphor. How about: "Are your librarians valued, valuable, essential resources to your community? If not, should they maybe consider wearing leather pants? Hmmmm?" Doofus. - David Rothman (☤)
I cant afford the hookers and blow it takes to be a rockstar... - ωαřмaiden ❤Bassetmom❤
Interesting that the meaning behind the question is being obfuscated with the snark... - Aaron the Librarian
librarians are not rockstars. They are (in the PL) municipal employees: underpaid, overworked, and the brunt of everyone's complaints. Much of this also holds in the academic world, although I have found there to be fewer complaints in the academy. - DJF
I am a rockstar, but not when I'm at work. - kendrak
kendra *is* a rockstar. truth. - holly #ravingfangirl
To prove this, I will have a Thee Kendrak Attack Performance at IL. - kendrak
Aaron: I think the snark uncovers something here--"rockstar status" may not be ideal or even what you're looking for. Valued contributors aren't usually rockstars... - walt crawford
Steve, make sure to chain all the firedoors closed before you set the display off, to get the maximum effect. - DJF
Students love our fog machine. - kendrak
Steve, you make an excellent point. How many people actually want that sort of thing anyhow? This weekend I hung out with the "rockstars" of my youth, and their appeal didn't come from leather pants or mega drum solos, but from an amazing attitude and energy and some amazing songs. That's what I want to emulate. Now, I'll never be the Operation Ivy of the library world, or even Rancid, but what about Common Rider or Schlong? - kendrak
The only rockstars in librarianship are the Dutch Boys. That's because they have accents, leather jackets and groupies. - Rochelle *boom* Hartman
I think you're not far off. I don't know who I'd want to be. Not really Jesse Michaels, not Dr Frank, I'll go for my gut and my heart and want to be the Dallas Denery of the library world. It's totally achievable. - kendrak
I'm a studio player. No fame, but a moderately steady paycheque. - DJF
Not too hard to guess, Steve. I know my age peers when I see 'em. - Rochelle *boom* Hartman
And, you know, not all of us are wildly in love with the Dutch Boys. (Ducks and runs away.) - walt crawford
no need to run away, Walt. that is a-okay in my thread! - holly #ravingfangirl
Clothing Line: "Break the mold join the rock star librarian movement!" - Mr. The Jason Fleming
Jason, that makes me think of "you are unique, just like everyone else." - Holly's favorite Anna
totally: everyone can be a rockstar librarian 9if you wear our clothes) - Mr. The Jason Fleming
to me, it just smacks of TRYING TOO HARD. all of this rockstar stuff does. - holly #ravingfangirl
Nancy Pearl: "The original RockStar Librarian" - Mr. The Jason Fleming
Cynthia Wilson =Rockstar Librarian - Mr. The Jason Fleming
that's cool, Steve. I know lotsa people like 'em, they just don't do it for me. kinda like cilantro. and licorice. - holly #ravingfangirl
Well, I was running away to logoff and get lunch. To clarify: Not in love with means what it says. I see what they're doing, they seem like decent folks...but I also noticed the way they managed to treat apparently-non-rockstars as invisible in at least one social setting, navigating automatically to The Hot Folks. Which is OK, but doesn't require my admiration. But, as you suggest, nothing wrong with rockstars...once in a while. - walt crawford
This is from David Lee King who I DO like, and who I like more than other people who I would have expected to say something like this (and who will remain nameless). - Gershbec
David Rothman - I'm the doofus who wrote this. Cool - lots of interesting comments for my impending blog post! - David Lee King
DLK makes me laugh out loud ;) - Mr. The Jason Fleming
Remember, I am the Dallas Denery of the library world - obscure but brilliant, with a fair amount of self deprecation. - kendrak
Oh sheesh people. Some of you are deleting your comments! Get real. - David Lee King
oh seriously? lame. - holly #ravingfangirl
quick.. cache... too late.. didn't think to take a screenshot sorry - Mr. The Jason Fleming
<threadjack>Holly just HAD to drag cilantro into this, didn't you?</threadjack> - Miriella
No, wait - it's back. That was odd. Sorry - false alarm (very glad for that, too). - David Lee King
oh good. AND YOU KNOW I DID, MERRY. and I'd do it again ;) - holly #ravingfangirl
<threadjack>Holly's hatred of Cilantro is a perfectly valid comment</threadjack> - Mr. The Jason Fleming
OK - my goal with the tweet was to ... well ... get a reaction. Which I apparently did. Yay for me. - David Lee King
Haters. - Miriella
But here's what I mean - my library's communication specialist originally said this when a ref lib was worried that something was a bit too much about her (meaning her name and pic were attached). Cm Spec said "yep - my goal is to make YOU the rockstar, not me." - David Lee King
Meaning - our librarians ARE (well, or should be) a valued resource in the community. Let's take that 1 step further - have people ask for us, want to follow our writing in our library blog posts, want to attend our classes, etc. - David Lee King
I've heard a manager tell an employee they were a rockstar before (but it kind of sounded like a derogative statement) -as in you put yourself too far out there on the stage.-and- yo should try to do more workwork instead - Mr. The Jason Fleming
people don't friend brands or books. They friend people. Interesting people. People who call each other doofuses (oh wait - silly barb alert). Want your library to start getting noticed in your town? Start getting out, doing stuff, letting people know your names, etc. - David Lee King
Lester Public Library's director does that - he's got a column in their local newspaper! People know him. - David Lee King
So that's where I was headed with those thoughts. Now, you can continue rolling eyes if you need to :-) - David Lee King
woooooooooo \m/ \m/ - holly #ravingfangirl
who's gonna the gg allin of librarians? this community needs that sort of rebel. - kendrak
DLK, here's my actual, sincere response: As a librarian, I don't want to be a rockstar, to be ogled from afar and immortalized on an impossible pedestal for doing flashy, sexy things. I want to be respected, valued, and appreciated for the real contributions that I make to my community, and remembered for those things. Alternately, I'd like to be Angelina Jolie. Either would be fine. - Jenica
i'm more of a superhero in my community, rather than a rockstar: - Marie
Jenica - that's fair. And I think that there's a large group of librarians that want that. There are others who would rather the community focused on the library's resources, rather than on them personally. And that's just wrong, because the librarian is an amazing resource for the community. - David Lee King
Josh - that's cool. But even then, you are focusing on the people rather than on the stuff, which is what I'm getting at. - David Lee King
Steve - that works. Someone else said "I'm more of a superhero" above, and Jenica said "valued contributor of community" ... Again, just thinking out loud, but I think some of this is similar to what I'm meaning. It's quite possible that using "rockstar" pushed some buttons (I'm apparently good at that sometimes). - David Lee King
Josh - B&N has that. Except for the databases. What's the diff? - David Lee King
Ye - that's what I'm sayin. And yes, I DO know the diff. But I think it's the librarians that make the difference. We arrange the stuff, we help find it, we teach about it, etc. A library's much more than it's stuff, I think. - David Lee King
Wondering if I'm more of a Keith Emerson (cult ultratalented prog-rocker) than a Keith Richards (mega-superstar). - Gershbec
You got me there Josh - I've never worked there. Just know two people now who have or did. Interestingly, the other one plays bass in local KC bands ... and wants to become a librarian, too. ohshootIbroughtitbacktotherockstarsagain! - David Lee King
DLK: like a church is much more than the building people worship in and the book they read out of? A pastor (insert religious figurehead here) can fire up a church, and members of the church can be beacons of kindness etc... and it is more of a community of information sharing/gathering working together in unison - Mr. The Jason Fleming
Jason - yep - that's a good analogy, too. Wow. So far, we have rockstars, superheroes, pastors, and valued contributors. And doofuses. - David Lee King
Speaking of which, I am going to the Tattered Cover tonight for a book signing... - Joe
Josh - I get that. Really, I do. You say "I believe in the mission of libraries & what they have to offer a community." My earlier thought was this - One thing libraries DO have that they tend to not focus on much (or market) is their staff. We tend to promote the class & the resource before we promote the person behind the class or resource. So I agree with you, but I'm thinking about it from a different angle right now. - David Lee King
If I hadn't just finished the first draft of an absurdly long Making it Work/Philosophy essay, I'd be tempted to snatch this whole thread for use there...some really good stuff being said here. (I grew up Methodist, and if we had rockstar ministers, they'd be snatched away by other congregations with greater pull at the Conference level, where assignments were made...) - walt crawford
I have to think most everyone here's right. I want to be the earnest contributor, but a large part of my job as director is to be The Voice and The Face. We have to humanize our services as much as we have to build good services... - Jenica
Good points, Jenica. You are right :-) - David Lee King
Josh - well, your library is an exception, cause y'all rock (oops - sorry about that :-). I haven't seen many libraries hide librarians (though I do know some, and won't name them) ... but I HAVE seen plenty of librarians hide themselves. Hide themselves behind their stuff, their fears of standing in front of people, their fears of being known (even in my library, just the fact that we... more... - David Lee King
Well ... yeah. I DO think that's a problem. And here's how I'd spin that - a library wants to go in a new direction. Change their name, put faces, names, etc on the website. Go out in the community to attract people to the library and it's stuff (I'm thinking of my recent trip to anythink libraries in the denver area here). If some staff aren't on board ... well, they're not meeting the... more... - David Lee King
I think several of you have made excellent points. I agree with DLKing that libraries need to be as present in their communities as possible, though I would argue that there are different "rockstar curves" (if I may coin a pointless phrase) for different libraries, in the sense that some libraries may have every staff member interacting regularly and thoroughly with the public. Others... more... - Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
In response to something Josh said, I've really struggled here with some of our staff, who are technically front-line staff, but who, given the opportunity, will keep from interacting with the public except at a bare minimum. A pleasant minimum, but still less than we could do. This is not unusual in libraries, as far as I can tell from what I hear from my colleagues. It takes a really... more... - Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
Why? I'll try to answer. I think that "quietly doing their jobs" = complacency and falling into a traditional rut, which = death for the library. Never a good thing - in libraries, in any industry. The book Good to Great talks about that. But I also agree with Louise - this depends on the library and their goals. I also like what she said about "audience." I read somewhere that in a... more... - David Lee King
Just telling you what lots and lots of librarians have told me. For them, "quietly doing their jobs" = no one stepping up to the plate to do the next thing (whatever that thing is) or (even worse) hoping no one notices them so they can minimally function at their job then go home. Effectively? Not sure you CAN be effective AND quiet... depends on what you mean by quiet. Doesn't share ideas at meetings? Doesn't ever have new ideas but still answers questions? What do you mean by quiet and effective? - David Lee King
See, when I think "rock star", I think about the librarians who have lots of speaking/preso gigs, or a whole lot of exposure beyond their community base, and that the quiet & effective folks we're mentioning just do their jobs and dont go on the circuit as much. And the quiet and ineffective ones need to go or be retrained. But that's my understanding. - ωαřмaiden ❤Bassetmom❤
Maybe I read your "quiet and effective" statement wrong. Sorry if I did! We might be talking about 2 different things here. Hope so! If they're quiet, and do their jobs well - that's wonderful. I'm certainly not meaning everyone has to be an extrovert! Heck, I'm a huge wallflower. But if they're quiet and don't speak up at a meeting (part of their job IS participating at a meeting) but then complaining about it later... that's something else entirely. - David Lee King
And I agree with your "puke" thing - in both cases, the person went the extra mile. - David Lee King
DLK- A doofusy thing is a doofusy thing, no matter who says it. Everyone says 'em. The internet just makes 'em widespread and permanent. I'd like to add that if your ambition as a LIS talking head is to evoke reaction, I strongly suggest pursuing more useful and meaningful ambitions. Your constant message seems to be "do more, be better," - and I love that- but the way that you sometimes say it (hyperbole, radical oversimplification, self-promotion) spoils the appeal of the message for me. - David Rothman (☤)
Agreed. But I also think that there's a pretty wide space between being a good librarian and being a community "rockstar" that could be explored a bit more by libraries... that's all. - David Lee King
A couple of comments. First of all, this seems to me to be pretty well the same conversation as all those SLA/ASKPro threads. Who are and what do we do, is there and "old" way vs a "new" way. - John Dupuis
Know what? Twitter is lousy for nuance. The role of the librarian perhaps deserves more nuance than terms like "rockstar." - David Rothman (☤)
David Rothman - to each his own. My goal isn't to evoke reaction (though I do that). It's always been to toy with ideas in my head, to share, and to see what others think. OTher people come along for the ride, whether or not they agree, and that's cool - David Lee King
And I must say - you didn't say "doofusy thing" - You said "what doofus wrote this, Holly?" I agree with your doofusy thing comment. The other? Not so much. - David Lee King
Second, I think a lot of the discomfort with the Rockstar term has to do with authenticity. When we think rockstar, we think of people who are clearly deluded (ie. Ozzy) and people who are famous for the sake of being famous or who want to be rockstars to show up everyone else or just to show off. I don't think this attracts more librarians or, in fact, most people, when it comes to how they do their jobs. People want to be authentic in their public personas, not something false and uncomfortable. - John Dupuis
John - you're right, and with my original thoughts, I wasn't going for deluded or fake! I'd just heard the statements more than once and was saying them "out loud." Yes - authenticity is hugely important - we can't be taken seriously otherwise. - David Lee King
At the same time, it's vitally important for librarians to be deeply connected to their communities, to be involved and visible. But I think the message here is that people want to be the Laurence Lessig or Clay Shirky of their library community outreach, not the Ozzy Osbourne or the Jon & Kate. - John Dupuis
DLK- sorry, but get over it. You say you wanted to evoke reaction. Fine, here's my reaction: it was a ridiculous thing to say. I didn't know who said it, just that it was ridiculous. I stand by that estimation. Yay! You evoked reaction- so stop portraying hurt feelings over it. If you aren't ready to receive disagreement and criticism, I strongly suggest not constantly posting your opinions online where they are subject to criticism. - David Rothman (☤)
DLK, that's great, it's just that you're never going to evoke an image of authenticity if you're talking about rockstars. Except for maybe Springsteen, but that's another thread. - John Dupuis
David - whatever. I disagree. No hurt feeling here - just pointing out what you said. Seriously - I love it when people disagree on my blog, in FF, in twitter, etc. But name-calling, even to anonymous people, is simply not cool. The "reaction" I meant from my original tweet was to say something and have people respond - not to see if I could get anyone riled. - David Lee King
John - yeah, I think you're right. Interestingly, people like Clay Shirky are called rockstars... - David Lee King
Yep, you are correct I'm thinking, oh Prince of Darkness :-) Bad choice of words on my part. - David Lee King
David, true about Shirky, but I'm thinking more along the lines of contrasting *wanting* to be a rockstar rather than ending up as one -- although I can only guess at other people's true motivations, of course. Rev D, I was thinking more Ozzy 2009 rather than Ozzy 1975...and I'm afraid I don't know Colleen's rockstar definition -- is there a reference? - John Dupuis
John - it's in this thread somewhere ... look for The Archangel ωαřмaiden - David Lee King
Cecily - nice. I like that. - David Lee King
DLK- Again: get over it. It was a doofusy thing to say and I didn't know who said it. I revise my original statement: "What individual said this ridiculously doofusy thing?" Better? - David Rothman (☤)
David Rothman - nothing to get over, but yeah - that's better. But really, I much prefer the name a patron called me a month or two ago - "sarcastic library nazi." That is a name worth a couple of giggles, at least :-) - David Lee King
Cecily - wow - that's a cool project! Yes, I think that would qualify (though I'm starting to shy away from "rockstar" a bit :-). But yes - being a human, a face, an actual person... that's what I'm trying to get at, I think - David Lee King
DLK- You seriously prefer to be called a Nazi than a doofus? Wow. Just: Wow. - David Rothman (☤)
oh stop it. It was a joke about a stupid name someone called me who was WAY off her rocker. we chuckled about it at my lib, after everyone agreed that I'm pretty much the exact opposite of a nazi. Sheesh. - David Lee King
I think the discussion is useful here. The level of snark and one-upsmanship some of the comments have though is frustrating. But I'd advise a few of us to take a chill right about now. Figuring out what is best for libs is what this is all about in the long run. - Libraryman
*rolls eyes and goes off to hang with Holly* - David Rothman (☤)
I want to sleep with common people. I want to sleep with common people, like you. - kendrak
I'll see what I can do. - kendrak
and dance, and drink, and.... - Libraryman
because there's nothing else to do. - Jenica
deader than a doornail! - holly #ravingfangirl
totally agree - holly #ravingfangirl
Late to the party, but I also fully agree with Steve's last statement. - walt crawford
I was gonna go with Meg FTW, but good point Steve ;) - Mr. The Jason Fleming
I love this conversation, snark, silliness and all. P.S. I like to think of myself as a roadie. I do a lot of grunt work, but without me, the show doesn't happen. And I still get to take chicks back to my hotel. Er, dudes, whatever. - Rochelle *boom* Hartman
As I said on Twitter 5 mins after DLK's post - we should be working to make our users Rock Stars, not ourselves - Kathryn is a free elf
I wrote about this three years ago, but I'm not sure I'd write it again today. http://rochellejustrochelle.ty... - Rochelle *boom* Hartman
Things I don't want to see when I turn on "House": Tied score in baseball, bottom of the 10th inning...
oh, poo. My TiVo will NOT know about that. - Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
nor will my DVR! hmmm - Rachel Singer Gordon
David Rothman (☤)
David sez: "No one should die because he or she cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke because he or she gets sick. If you agree, please post this as your status for the rest of the day."
Michelle McLean
Michelle finished the blog post - part-time librarian behind the scenes revealed -
Jessica W Sanchez
10,001 Ways to Live Large on a Small Budget -
10,001 Ways to Live Large on a Small Budget
Jill Hurst-Wahl
“There are more businesses created each year than there are marriages..."
Here's something I've been thinking about lately. Thoughts? - lris
I think you have some pretty astute observations about how it's growing and what people are starting to look for. And I think I've already seen a few folks tell some of the newer ones, make it what you think it should be. I'm not sure that people need to step back though to decide the future of the group though. I think that the people that are active will make their presence felt and the group will try things out and step in new directions. Some will fail, others will succeed. But I think it - Sir Shuping is just sir
will be interesting to see what happens next. - Sir Shuping is just sir
Dorothea: that's because LSW grew out of libraries, so some of the "founding friends" were female, and we all spend most of our time working with women. Code4Lib grew out of programmers: even the women in that group are (unfortunately, in a sense) accustomed to the locker-room feel of the developer-centred environment. - DJF
Oh that's a wrinkle I hadn't thought of, and I'm still not sure what I think of it. It's weird because I think part of the success so far has been that there's no real conscious structure. People could do whatever and have a name to attach to that. But part of some of the newer frustrations I'm hearing is that there's an expectation of more procedural inclusion rather than assumed inclusion. - lris
Yes. Absolutely. But is it enough to simply assume it? Part of our past experience with all Groups is that somebody "owns" the group and that ideas have to go through that person or people. I think some people expect to need permission before going and doing things in the name of LSW. - lris
I mean *we* know they don't need this permission, but do they? - lris
What's the phrase? "Tolerance for Ambiguity" I think? People who have this ability (as I like to think I do) easily do without formal/conscious structures (as I feel the LSW 'organization' consciously embodies). What is structure beyond potential restriction? Structure allows for building larger entities with specialized sub-domains or sub-specialties - We can hold up ALA as an example of this - LSW started as a reaction against structures like that, but it's only normal for people to ask the questions... - Aaron the Librarian
I agree and really like LSW the way it is now, but let me just play devil's advocate for a minute. You know how ALA responds to criticism of its weakness as a professional development vehicle by saying "We're not actually about PD," and you know how that feels like a cop out since they *do* some PD and therefore are expected to do it well? What if, because the group is now so big, there's an expectation that it'll find a way to have structure without restriction? (I know, I know. Devil's advocate, remember? - lris
You don't have to become a Unitarian, you _are_ one: - DJF from twhirl
I hope 'newer' members or members who feel a need for more structure feel free to make up something which helps them feel more comfortable, but I also hope the structures created take into account that there are members who feel no particular need for structure and in some cases actively resist structure/stricture :) - Aaron the Librarian
I feel like some of the vitality has left LSW recently and I don't know why. Or maybe activity has shifted away from the Meebo room & twitter to other venues, such as the Shovers and Makers blog. I dunno. - maʀtha
martha, I wonder if that's partly because of the difficulties of keeping up with multiple social sites? I know recently I've had more trouble with this, and have pulled back a smidge. What is the central communication vehicle for LSW? FriendFeed? Meebo? Twitter? - Rachel Walden
i think rachel has a good point. because i've drifted away from the meebo chat room, and i'm a peripatetic friendfeed user, i feel like i'm missing a lot of the conversation. i'm glad a lot of you are still using twitter, but even there, i'm just as involved in romancelandia discussions as i am with libraryland ones, so my attention feels split. - Katie
I think convos have shifted away from the main meebo chat room. I see some stuff happening here on FriendFeed room and some seems to happen spontaneously on people's threads, but I wonder if folks have moved to other areas, individual chats/e-mails. Maybe not? - Sir Shuping is just sir
Rachel, I agree about the multiple sites. Originally - as Iris mentions- twitter and meebo were key. I don't spend as much time in either place anymore and suspect that others don't either. Also, there are informal social groups that have split off, which is only natural when a group reaches a certain critical mass. With such an anarchic organization, we will get more out of it if we put more in. I think Shovers and Makers is a perfect example of what can happen when someone (carping nerdboys) have a - maʀtha
brilliant genius idea and then make it manifest. So, I ask myself: What do I want LSW to be and do and become? Is it still important, relevant and useful enough to me for me to invest time and energy in it? Is it time for newer people to embrace their inner leaders and assert themselves with the virtual spaces? - maʀtha
I have to laugh (in a good, amused way) about Rachel's comment and follow ups to it... Walt (Crawford if you need the clarity) has been saying (for quite a long time, iirc) something along these lines... the multiplication of communication channels is actually a detriment to conversations -- too many places to look to be sure one is not missing a piece of what's going on. If LSW does anything 'organizing-wise' it would be to define our main communications channels (pick 3 or 4) and resist adding any more. - Aaron the Librarian
Agreed about resisting adding more channels. It's hard to tap into the group discussion if the group is everywhere. - Rachel Walden
It's a problem for sure- even with tools to help follow stuff, at times it's like being a character in a space opera with a squillion info channels open. - Pete's Got To Go
I do agree w/ probs of keeping up w/ multiple channels of communication for the most part. However, is the idea of defining/limiting avenues of comm for an organically-evolved, hive-mind-technophilic-group like this a little dangerous? Once you limit something like that, does it make it harder to evolve to meet ever changing needs, environments & tech? Isn't that one of the main shortcomings of more formally defined orgs like ALA? ps: please don't take "hive-mind-technophilic" to mean "borg-like"! - Dana Longley
Dana, I'm thinking there's probably some middle ground, between "1 official place that must never change to anything else" and having so many places that the usefulness is significantly diluted. What that magic balance is, I'm not sure. - Rachel Walden
Rachel: well-stated! - Dana Longley
Josh- you need a Share- Situationist-Prankster CC licence - Pete's Got To Go
I'm fairly new to LSW, and thoroughly appreciate the conversations I've followed in FriendFeed. Sure there is benefit to thinking about the future of such a group, but all the same, from what I've seen of LSW's existence and inclusiveness it seems that the members will propel it into exactly the direction it needs to go! - Galadriel C.
Hear hear, Galadriel. I would also like to note that while I think this kind of introspection is probably beneficial, I don't think it should go on for too long. Too much introspection, however thoughtful, can kill momentum and initiative and all the things I love about this group. - lris
oh, sure, get us all introspecting and *then* you say this ;) - maʀtha
Yes, well, I never claimed to be consistent. ;-) - lris
zactly - lris
But Iris, I just twisted around to get a really good view of my navel! ;) - Rachel Walden
LOL. Consider it yoga. Then you'll feel better about it. :-) - lris
Just wanted to comment on the conversations aspect as it relates to the "W" in LSW. I was/am really keen to be part of this but the time difference and the fact that, unlike @sirexkathyn, I am not a late night person means I keep missing the conversations in the meebo room. At least on FF I can catch up whenever and feel much more part of things. - suelibrarian
I don't know about forcing people to use only 3-4 certain social networking sites. I am sure next year there will be some new awesome communications tool that is *gasp* better than Twitter. As an organization grows, it is natural for people to faction off a little bit, but the nature of the LSW is that it will be the amoeba that shifts and changes by the minute to fit the needs of the members at the moment -- like daily multiple virtual unconferences. - Joe
I got the meebo room password once but due to timezone issues (like @suelibrarian) missed out on conversations. Then when I tried going back recently it gave me an error - don't know if it's a meebo problem, a "no-one's here anyway" problem, or a "duh, we changed the password *months* ago" problem... - Deborah Fitchett
@deborahfitchett I tried the room at the same time as I was having the meebo widget issues and had issues with the room as well. I think it was meebo at the time. I havent actually tried since.I could get in irregularly but the password was fine and not the issue - suelibrarian
Yeah, Meebo's been a little flaky for a while now, unfortunately. It's really too bad, because it was a great place to hang out (er... especially in U.S. time zones), but due to one thing and another participation there has been a whole lot less consistent in the last couple of months, and I'm as much at fault as anyone in that regard. It's been a while since I last logged in. - lris
I'm inclined to think that consolidating the communication channels of LSW is totally missing the point. It's organic. It's alive. It's everywhere! Let the conversations and activities of the LSW take place wherever one or more members feel inclined to make them happen. So what if you miss something? You're missing something relevant to you somewhere right now anyway. Let it go. The last thing I'd want the LSW to be is a stress inducer and another source of "keeping current" fail. - Greg Schwartz
Greg (and Joe)-I want to be clear that I'm not at all advocating forcing anything wrt to channels of communication. I think I just worry that there are LSW channels developing or in existence that I'm not aware of that I'd like to be participating in. Which speaks well of LSW to me. ;) - Rachel Walden
I see. Personally, I do get a little stressed that "I might miss something important," too. I would bet new communications channels will be announced in loads of existing LSWish places. Have you heard of this new Twiter thing? :-) - Joe
Too bad someone else already got - Joe
What I love about LSW is that it's playful and anarchist in the best sense - which means organizing it would break it, right? But there does seem to be a change dynamic for communities that has to do with size and/or changing memberships. I've experienced it in an old-fashioned Yahoo discussion group and tried to diagnose it. Some intimacy and we-get-all-the-jokes familiarity is strained as people join and some people drift away. It's not necessarily bad, but it does come with a twinge of loss. - barbara fister
This has been most helpful. I didn't really understand it before, but now I can loosely equate it to how Code4Lib got started and flourishes in the library technologist arena. I heard of LSW after it had reached the "A Group" stage, so this summary of its history has been really helpful. - Peter Murray
I love my computer becouse my friends live in it... -
I love my computer becouse my friends live in it...
Oh that's the truth (sad) - BEX
This hangs above my desk on the wall - Jesse Stay
Jason Griffey
Woot! I just won the Joseph & Mary Jackson award for "achievement in faculty development and distinguished accomplishments"! Cool!
Congratulations!!! - lris
Congrats! - Mar₭ Liŋdŋer
Congratulations! - Peter Murray
congrats! - ~Courtney F
When was the last time someone from the library won that one? I bet you're the first :) go go Griffey - Aaron the Librarian
Congratulations! - Jason P
Yay! Congratulations! - laura x
congrats - walt crawford
David Rothman (☤)
Of course I hate Passover. Try taking PB&J on matzo to school for lunch. For a week. Every year.
Hmpf, but I *like* PB&J on matzoh - Aaron the Librarian
You wouldn't after being forced to eat it for a week every year. - David Rothman (☤)
My mom was into PB&HONEY on matzoh. Now that's a serious soggy mess. - Rachel Singer Gordon
In elementary school, one of my friend's mothers used to make a giant stack of poori and slap a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly on the table. Heaven! - maʀtha
What, Commies don't eat PB&J?!?! How unAmerican. - maʀtha
The only thing I ever liked about Passover was the hunt for the afikomen. Mostly because it signaled the end of another dreadful Seder. - David Rothman (☤)
How about taking little container of hummus and dipping the matzoh in that? Or even just taking cheese with you some days. - John Dupuis
John, I'm utterly non-observant now. - David Rothman (☤)
Actually, now that both my sons are 13+, they've decided not to follow the rules for their Passover packed lunches. Last year, my older son observed in solidarity with his younger brother. I'm not Jewish so it's not an issue for me but my wife was a little wistful that they're not going along this year. - John Dupuis
Hah! Thanks, Rachel. :) - David Rothman (☤)
Pretty darn unobservant here now too, but semi-wistful my kids won't have those memories... - Rachel Singer Gordon
We have a 10 minute seder with the in-laws -- preceded by crackers and served with bread, and most years kind of in the same month as Passover, so hey. - Rachel Singer Gordon
We were on an orchestra trip during Passover one year. Lotsa matzoh on the bus. As an honorary Jew, I did get offered a kosher brownie. - laura x
Making a note that Laura is an honorary Red Sea Pedestrian. - David Rothman (☤)
This thread kind of makes me want to go buy some matzo after work. - ellbeecee
I'm starting to think that the Internet is just the latest medium to be controlled by the vast Jewish conspiracy. - DJF
DJF- Liz bought me a copy of The Big Book of Jewish Conspiracies. Very funny stuff: - David Rothman (☤)
Try having a birthday during passover -- matzoh-meal cake does NOT make the grade. - Rachel Singer Gordon
I've got a Catholic friend who's birthday is in early April, so it's pretty much always in the middle of Lent. When you're a kid, that's almost as bad. - DJF
David Lee King
Doing a 15 Minute Presentation in 10 Easy Steps « The Other Librarian -
Jill Hurst-Wahl
CIL2009: Random lunch conversation -
pictures will be uploaded tonight. was truly amazing - ♫Maurice the Dolphin♫
#cil09 Just had dinner with all authors and future authors (like me) of Information Today. We had lots of fun and dinner was great! -
Mary DeSive
» I Asked 15 People How They Would Google Headaches, You Won’t Believe The Results -
I think this illustrates part of our failings as librarians in expecting people to search a "proper" way in our databases - Mary DeSive
Jenny Levine
On the ALA Membership Pyramid | In the Library with the Lead Pipe -
"We need to think creatively and to create programs and workshops that embrace virtual participation. We need to break the mold of traditional ALA membership. The next time you attend a conference or a committee meeting, bring up these issues and ask questions. Propose and implement pilot service projects at a conference and publish your successes and challenges. Help to create new models of participation and share them with your professional community. The more experimenting we do at a grassroots level the more we are able to best find the models of participation, service, and governance for a sustainable and successful ALA. By continuing to adopt these changes in ALA, the membership pyramid will eventually flatten and the globally shaped ALA membership can form." - Jenny Levine
Rachel Walden
I finally saved the link in delicious so I would never lose it again. :) - Rachel Walden
amanda etches
I have this taped to my office wall -
I have this as my desktop as a motivational poster (replacing "him" with "it" in my mind) - - Rachel Walden
I'm far too cynical. I have the postcard-sized framed version of this on my desk: - DJF from twhirl
amanda, I need this too! Did you write it?? - Connie Crosby
I have this off to one side behind my monitor: - bentley
Jill Hurst-Wahl
I want to gather info on speaker/presenter/trainer expectations for a future blog post. If you are a speaker/trainer/presenter, what info do you expect from the hiring organization? What paperwork do you like to receive? How much contact, etc., do you want? Your thoughts?
I've been thinking about this blog post for a long time. I know there has been something written about this in the past, but want to make my post positive and instructional. I know what I want to include, but need to hear your thoughts and ideas. - Jill Hurst-Wahl
And if you have hired a speaker/trainer/presenter, what information are you looking for? - Jill Hurst-Wahl
Jill--I'm assuming you've looked at the copious notes I pulled together. If not: - walt crawford
You might touch base with Rachel Singer Gordon - Hedgehog
Walt thanks! There was also a blog post with lots of comments on this, perhaps written by Librarian in Black. Will have to find that.... - Jill Hurst-Wahl
This is a good thread as I'm thinking (more on the venue/online presence side) about conference promotion for our upcoming ICSTI 2009 event. - Richard Akerman
I believe Meredith Farkas and Dorothea Salo also had something to say on this, but it is all probably referenced in Walt's work. - Mar₭ Liŋdŋer
I want organizations, if they ask me to speak, to tell me up front -- in the invitation -- if they can or cannot pay speakers, what their conference registration policy is, and what they will do for travel reimbursement. I don't think that it should be the responsibility of the invitee to ask about reasonable compensation. - Jenica
I've just pulled a posting out of draft about the high-level bits of conference planning. - Richard Akerman
For organizations that are bringing in speakers from afar, I would like info on hotels, airports, etc. Don't assume that I know which airport is close to you and which hotels are the best/most convenient. And if you have a limit on travel funds for speakers, tell me. - Jill Hurst-Wahl mean no one else has a thought about this? Every speaking gig has providing what you needed upfront and been well organized? You have nothing that you want future organizers to know? - Jill Hurst-Wahl
+1 Jenica - Richard Akerman
Ok - where am I standing? how big is the screen? can I bring my laptop? is it ok if my presentation is in Mac Keynote format? Do you need an electronic copy of my slides? How big will the room be? How big will the audience be? are they technical? non-tech? EXACTLY how much time will I have? do they usually ask questions? am I on a panel? who else is speaking? - Richard Akerman
Jill, I'm having trouble narrowing. I want them to tell me EVERYTHING they know, honestly. If they're putting me up in a hotel, I want them to do the work and tell me about it. If they're arranging travel, I want to know about it. If I'm arranging travel and getting reimbursed, I want to be told about the process. I want to know about the speaker technology. I want to know about expectations. I want to know about the audience. I want to know everything, and the less I have to hunt for, the better. - Jenica
Jenica, I hear ya! the less mystery about everything, the better. And maybe that the theme of the blog post...Take the Mystery Out of Speaking/Training Opportunities. - Jill Hurst-Wahl
I agree with all that has been said especially that the details of where I'm presenting and the tech hurdles and having a person there who will be available to assist so I'm not running around trying to figure it all out. But, more importantly, what do they want - in detail - from me. Just a broad idea doesn't work well if I miss the mark and don't deliver what they are asking for. I find a discussion on the phone with the person/persons is MUCH better than doing the communication by email. - Stephanie Zimmerman
+1 @Candy yeah it is very useful to know how much space and what miking there is, so I know whether I will be able to move around (my preference) or if I have to stand at a podium - Richard Akerman
Basically, Jill, I think what I want is for any speaking gig to be treated like the business transaction that it is. I want professionalism, I want to be treated well, I want information provided to me as though I matter, and I want a clear understanding of the expectations of me as a consultant, the details of the job, and the places where I will need to be proactive. The burden should not be on the speaker to make that interaction happen. - Jenica
Thanks all...and keep the comments coming. I'll summarize in a blog post next week and will post the link in Twitter, FF, etc. I have my own ideas/rants on this subject, but truly wanted the input from others. I know that some org's struggle with knowing what to do "with" speakers, so this info will be useful and used. - Jill Hurst-Wahl
P.S. - I have to wait until next week to do the blog post 'cause I'm swamped this week. Anybody want to help prep for a class or grade papers? - Jill Hurst-Wahl
Sure, Jill, I'll be happy to grade papers for you! Send 'em on down to me... - Jill O'Neill
Jill, I'm not providing anything new because I covered so much in C&I--but I'll read your post with interest. - walt crawford
Very late in commenting on this, too much traveling. The most important thing to me is information about the expected audience, what they might already know and what they want to learn. Not always possible I realize. After that, all the other stuff everyone has mentioned, room size, logistics, fees, who's covering what. Contracts are nice! - pollyalida
I need the ability to present off MY laptop. Therefore I need a Net connection. WiFi or wired doesn't matter. It's not that your laptop isn't any good I just don't know what it has or doesn't. When I use my laptop I know what to expect and what I can use on the fly. - Michael Sauers from twhirl
I need information about the network connection (availability, type, speed) but I usually record screencasts and screenshots in advance as well because I assume the Internet won't work anyway. - Richard Akerman
If doing software training, what software is already in the computer lab? Can the trainer load software? (Stephanie Zimmerman) She wants to talk by phone to the organizer in order to gather details. - Jill Hurst-Wahl
(Stephanie Zimmerman) Need to understand what the organization really wants. (Maurice Coleman) Need to do a "reference interview" with the organization in order to pull out info. - Jill Hurst-Wahl
Organizations should post info online about their facilities, expectations, etc. Ask for handouts, etc., in advance so you (org) can be sure the session is on track. [Notes from T is for Training podcast conversation] - Jill Hurst-Wahl
Will tech support be available, if there are problems? - Jill Hurst-Wahl
Blog post is done! "Advice to conference/training/event organizers as well as presenters/speakers/trainers" - Jill Hurst-Wahl
Rachel Walden
"This is not a Pipe" - Funny, Monsters, Slogans, Cute, Pop Culture, Nerdy T-shirt by Genée Cosden -
Rachel Walden
Jennifer Aniston's $50K Hairstyle vs. Librarian Pensions -
K.G. Schneider
I have had this problem for most of the past decade. I like to think it's an excuse for why my MFA thesis is such a poor, pitiful thing, but I suspect that may be due as much to laziness as to world events. - laura x
Illinois plutocrats are frakkin’ goofy | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine -
The government of Illinois, an an obvious attempt to distract America from Blagojevich’s hair, has declared that Pluto is a planet. - Joe
Mona Nomura
A Completely Unscientific (Yet Accurate) Look at Social Sites -
A Completely Unscientific (Yet Accurate) Look at Social Sites
A Completely Unscientific (Yet Accurate) Look at Social Sites
Myspace: "12% Proud owners of butterfly tramp stams 7% Club promoters 27% Bathroom mirror exhibitionists 11% Animated .gif birthday cake comment fairies 17% Investors who gobbled up virual glitter factories on the cheap 24% People that haven't found out about Facebook yet 2% People who can't afford" LOL!!!!!! - Mona Nomura
That's good stuff! - Patrick Jordan
ROFL. That's hilarious. - Anika
Haha.. "Investors who gobbled up virtual glitter factories on the cheap" - Rodfather
Those numbers are 150% accurate. - Richard Lawler
Facebook: "15% People who have no idea what is going on, they just like to look at pictures" HAHA - Mona Nomura
Thats great! - Bluesun 2600
Scoble doesn't have a twitter %age of his own? Maybe that for FF analysis... - Rob Kramer
great charts - hope they will add other networks - Alexander Benker
What's Propeller? This is making me LAUGH "22% SEO Spammers 11% Nigerian Scammers 17% Viagra Spammers 50% Propeller Employees" - Mona Nomura
man i can relate to so many of these hahahaha - Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど
Love it! - sofarsoShawn
It's funny because it's true LOL - Mona Nomura
That's hysterical! - Shevonne
Whomever did this, just won the internet in my books! - embee
I can't WAIT to see the next round!!!!! - Mona Nomura from IM
Correction: it's funny because it's *extremely* true - mike fabio from twhirl
awesome. I should have browsed FriendFeed more before posting this one myself! - Thomas Hawk
made me laugh - Richard Akerman
hahhahahhhaha I love the Facebook 12% (or something) that has no clue what's going on but loves looking at pictures -- that's almost all my real life firends on there LOL - Mona Nomura from IM
so many damn truths there LOL - Dobromir Hadzhiev
Funny because it's true! - Ronald S
Somebody had to come up with a piechart for FF - Jason
now this is FUNNY. - michael sean wright
Facebook: 13% Our moms. Mom hasn't hit Facebook yet, but she is on Twitter... and followed my husband... and Britney Spears.... BUT NOT ME. - Alix May
hahhahahhahahha!! Alix LOL! - Mona Nomura
I guess I'm in the MySpace 12. :) - EricaJoy
Yeah... and I cant block her mom.... :( - Shawn Whitmire
I bookmarked this yesterday, hunted all over for copyright notice or authorship, because I want to use it in a presentation. Couldn't find way to attribute aside from URL! Generous folks ... - Patricia F. Anderson
this is awesome - Angela P.
I know Mona, the MS categories are hliarious! And what about divorcés on fb? - fn (fairnymph)
Hey - Myspace is still useful for independent bands! I'm embarrassed to have its iPhone app (on my last page) so I can check up on my band's issues/shows/whining/etc. on the go... We do, however, get lots of friend requests from butterfly tramp stamps, and we deny them because there is no way they looked at our profile. But seriously, if a BAND denies your friendship on MySpace you need to re-evaluate your life. - Isabelle
Awesome! This is two weeks old but I just found it today. - Stephan Miller from Friend Deck
walt crawford
Uncontrolled Vocabulary: Another one down (at least for now) -
I almost didn't post this--only because I haven't been a UV regular, although I'm convinced it was/is a great thing. But UV going on hiatus for all the right reasons is, I believe, another symptom...and I felt the need to note that. (Don't overthink conclusions: So far, at least, C&I isn't in imminent danger. I think.) - walt crawford
I totally understand the reasons for going on hiatus. None of us can be 24/7 library stuff for extended periods of time. Greg - Hope you enjoy the extra time to be present to your family and thanks for all you've done. - Daniel Cornwall
David Lee King
20 Tips for Better Conference Speaking
I wrote a blog post in January with my 7 top presentation tips and have been adding other resources to that, and just added this one. Thanks for the link! Good stuff! (My post is at - Jill Hurst-Wahl
David Rothman (☤)
Anyone else using IntenseDebate for blog comments?
No, but looks interesting. I love the idea of pulling comments from FF into my original blog post. I think I noticed Dorothea's comment from FF ended up on this blog post so Peter Murray might be using it. - Meredith
Installed on I'll report back here. :) - David Rothman (☤)
I was wondering if some people would get annoyed if their FF comments show up on blog posts? - Rachel Singer Gordon
I'm guessing not. FF is a pretty public forum. - David Rothman (☤)
Would y'all do me a favor and comment or "like" one of these? - David Rothman (☤)
True, but I think it's like that Facebook hoo-ha a while back -- sometimes people seem to have the sense of it being a private between-friends community, kwim? - Rachel Singer Gordon
& commented on one for you - Rachel Singer Gordon
If it works well it shouldn't pill in my Like since my account is "private." - lris
Added a like (or is it "love" now?) to your yale image finder post. my account is private to, so like Iris, it won't show up?? - pollyalida
Thanks guys! Rachel- My thinking is that if one hasn't made one's FF private, there is no reasonable expectation that one's comments are kept private. Actually, there's no privacy even if one marks one's FF as private. - David Rothman (☤)
Hmmmm. IntenseDebate doesn't seem to be picking these up. :( - David Rothman (☤)
David your thought is right. If someone with a private account makes a comment on any of your posts here it should be picked up. I've had some of mine show up in Google, hence the change of my name on FF - Sir Shuping is just sir
Rachel- your comment showed up! - David Rothman (☤)
Hey, that's cool, I might have to check that out. - Rachel Singer Gordon
this looks great, will have to check it out - Janice
Hmm, I think people who have "private" FF accounts probably assume their comments here are not popping up elsewhere. This may or may not be reasonable, and seems to be a bigger problem than just on FF - I have also noticed people blogging tweets recently without bothering about whether those they quote have private accounts. I doubt many people anticipate such uses when they decide to have private accounts. - Rachel Walden
I'm going to look into it and consider using it. Did anyone test the "private account" aspect? - walt crawford
Walt, I'm pretty sure that it won't pick up comments on my posts in FriendFeed unless my FF account is public. - David Rothman (☤)
I think it's the other way around: Whether it picks up X's comments on *my* posts, when X's FF account is private. My FF account is public, so not an issue. (I'm wavering, and thinking maybe I shouldn't add one of these plugins, of which there appear to be several.) - walt crawford
I know Steve is right, but the system seems to look to MY feed for the comments. Let's test it. I've set my FF account to private. I've put up a post inviting y'all to comment and we'll see if IntenseDebate sees your comments. Please do leave a comment, not a "like." - David Rothman (☤)
How long does it take for FF comments to show up? I just installed over at mashup mom and am waiting. - Rachel Singer Gordon
The moderation emails showed up in my inbox within a few minutes, Rachel. You finished configuration on their Web site and checked FriendFeed, right? - David Rothman (☤)
Sure did -- the threaded commenting is working great, but I'm not seeing anything come in from FriendFeed either in the admin panel or to email. - Rachel Singer Gordon
and your FF is public? weird. - David Rothman (☤) from fftogo
Yes -- my FF is public -- everything looks OK on the IntenseDebate side, but nothing showing up for moderation there, no emails. - Rachel Singer Gordon
OK, not only that, I just noticed a bunch of comments for older posts are now not showing up -- I did import comments but some? are missing. Weird. I think I'm deactivating this for now. - Rachel Singer Gordon
(Did you use the older plugin or the beta for WP 2.5+? I used the beta, and am wondering if that's the problem.) - Rachel Singer Gordon
My WordPress plugins page says I'm using version 2.0.18 - David Rothman (☤)
Yup, that's the one I have on WP 2.7. I posted in their support forum, but just deactivated it til I have time to mess with it further -- it wasn't showing the comments on the giveaway post from last week, when I went to pick a winner, and other random comments had also disappeared. Technology hates me :-) - Rachel Singer Gordon
That sucks. :( I'm using WordPress 2.7.1- don't know if that would make a difference. - David Rothman (☤)
I don't see as it would, but who knows? I'll upgrade tonight and maybe try again, no time now. - Rachel Singer Gordon
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