Ruud Hein › Likes

After spending some time as an Evernote user I'm just fed up. Here's my reaction. I'd like to know: What do all of you use the program for? I feel like the only one whose had any issues with it considering the rave reviews flying around. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I use it as a staging account. It's where I throw stuff that I don't have time to otherwise categorize. I also use it to store info that I know I'm going to need later but I'm in too big of hurry to do anything else. It's also great for screenshots. The best note taker in the world is still Notepad, or at least Notepad++. - Keith - @tsudo

I do the same thing with OneNote, and if I pull it from the web or another doc, It'll keep a link. Also, it lets me pull up notes without opening the main program, just a blank notepad like area that auto saves and is searchable. This is what I don't get, what does Evernote do that makes it competitive? I feel like I must be missing out on some big secret. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I use Evernote, for work and home. Reason #1 Its free, Reason #2 It works on multiple platforms. (I can find something of interest at work on a PC, and pull that same info and edit on my iPhone, or Mac at home.. try that with OneNote) Prior to Evernote, I was a Google Note book fan, the only problem was that I could not edit notes on my phone, but I can with Evernote. - Steve Sill

I use Evernote to collect things from the web I want to remember that might go away (Photoshop tutorials are good examples...), I use it to store account credentials like a password manager. I use it to store all the PDFs that I have collected over the years. I use it to store MP3s so I can access them on other computers. I use it to store any bit of text or information I might need to recall later like the stuff my kid's school sends home, insurance policies, credit card emergency contact information... - Lindsay is in 20-ten

You don't have to save the link in the note when you cut and paste from the web, it captures that information for you. You can see the metadata for notes in the Windows (and I'm assuming Mac) clients at the top of each note. You can edit that if you need to but the web clipper or cut and paste from a website does it automatically. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

I guess I don't use it for note taking in the sense of academic note taking and I can see how it might be not as ideal, but it's extremely useful to me and I'm a very happy paid subscriber to the service. My main two complaints are not being able to store zip and other file types and not being able to share notes with specific people/groups. Oh, and lack of an Android G1 app. But I'm hoping all that will come eventually and it's still useful to me in the mean time. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Lindsay, that's some of the same stuff I use OneNote for. While I do feel safe putting my passwords on OneNote, I don't know if I would with Evernote, considering everything passes through the web. I had no idea you could use it to store MP3s, but that doesn't seem like the ideal solution. The downside to Evernote is if you don't tag something properly it can be very very difficult to browse to. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

This is especially an issue with passwords, you don't want to make them easy for an intruder to find but trying to browse notebooks in Evernote is an exercise in frustration. For stuff on the web, isn't that the whole point of printing to a PDF? I have to admit, I am seeing some legitimate uses for Evernote, but still how often to you use it to go back? It seems to me that most people seem to use it more as a drop box than anything else. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I use or for note since the beginning of 2005, when it was still a desktop only client. Since that time I've used it to store login information, registration information, names and telephone numbers, where I've put certain things in the house (and whereas move them to later because I always forget, LOL), snippets of pertinent knowledge from webpages, events (when did we get the dog?... more... - Ruud Hein

Aram - for passwords, I store those in encrypted notes, so I don't worry so much about whether it's exposed on the web. It's not an ideal solution as I can only decrypt those on the Windows client but I don't have to look things up that often... It's more for peace of mind that I know they are there if I forget. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

For printing to PDF, now that I have Evernote, I don't have to do that anymore, I can just clip straight to Evernote. But I have a huge backlog of them, and now they are in one place, tagged and organized. And I do use them (I was just looking up some information on my kid's upcoming band concert that I'd scanned in so I can forward to my mom before writing this). Search works well for me, and the OCR is great. I don't HAVE to use tags because of that. I actually use tags as notebooks instead. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

I don't like the "folder" model of organizing information. If I use tags and structure them I can look up information in several different "thought paths". Yes, I tag every note, and make a point of it. It's been a while since I used OneNote but all the notebooks and sub-notebooks made it hard for me find things. I like tagging much better... it's flat and deep at the same time. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

I also use OneNote for work. I have a separate account for all my work notes (so I can hand it over when I leave). I use it to document chat sessions (our logs are erased daily) and code snippets and I document processes and procedures (with links to relevant files/sites in the steps). I keep account credentials and other information encrypted there. I use it every single day, probably about 70% adding info and 30% looking it up again (but when I do need to look it up, it's quick and easy!). - Lindsay is in 20-ten

See, the issue I have is that yes, some of this stuff that Evernote can do is good, but I can do the same thing (all of it) and a lot more in OneNote with the exception of the easy sync. I guess part of it is work style Lindsay, I like OneNote's notebooks and sub-notebooks, they make organizing things easy. Like I said before, it seems to me that the legitimate uses of Evernote are more... more... - Aram Zucker-Scharff

For example: one of the main things I use OneNote for is to build a bible for a game development team I'm on. Within the notebook for that project each topic has it's own section, each section has headings on notes with general descriptions and in-notebook links then when I want to drill down into more detail I pull it into a sub-note. For me, OneNote is a real reference. One that works... more... - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Yeah, I agree, Aram. I don't use it to take notes, but to archive info. I am very picky about tags. I put at least one tag and usually several on every note. I have hundreds of tags and I have those organized in hierarchies. I use the auto-complete feature for filling in tags in the web clipper. Between tags and search I have no problems finding things again. I use Evernote from home, work and my phone and LOVE having access to my info anywhere I am. That's the main advantage over OneNote for me. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

And why would you use Evernote to save websites when Delicious does it better, Google does immediate caching and the Internet Archive saves old versions of the website? I understand that Evernote does this stuff, but it seems to me that there is a whole host of tools out there, many of them free, that do it better. Most of them are also better about increasing content for your social... more... - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Delicious doesn't save any of the content (I have quite a large Del.icio.us archive, btw). Internet Archive has failed me (lots of times) and I have had problems finding things again on Google... Most of the stuff I put in Evernote I don't really want to share with the world (though I would like to with specific people). OneNote is not free, limited to Windows, and doesn't automatically sync with a backup in the clouds and isn't accessible from my phone. For me, it serves my needs better than OneNote. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

I am pretty familiar with the other tools available out there (I am a beta site addict and a digital packrat... if it looked at all useful I tried it). Evernote isn't perfect but it's constantly improving and what's already there works for how I need it. And it's ONE service verses several that lets me have my data where, when and how I need it. It's my digital file cabinet. - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Lindsay, you hit on the very reason why I wish I could use Evernote so much, the ability to have my stuff living on the cloud would be fantastic. Right now my OneNote is being synced up between my laptop and desktop using an FTP solution with my server. Having it automatic with Evernote has so much promise. But I can't use Evernote for notes, or to work with text in the free-form drop... more... - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I guess what it really comes down to was just how disappointed I was in Evernote, I expected to be able to find a solution to my backup issues, but for me, using Evernote caused way more problems then it solved. Also... it did make me consider getting an iPhone, but then I looked at iTunes on a friends computer and my resolve not to get one was strengthened. In the end, the deal is that... more... - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Yep, EN works best as a dump place of lose info bits, for me. ON I use for structured info (documenting work projects esp.). Too, it's the value-over-time. You've been building in ON for a long time, hence you have tremendous value back - Ruud Hein

You know you can open a note in a separate single editor window right? That's not what you mean by "notepad-style file"? As for the phone use, since I now have an Android G1 and no longer the nice Windows mobile app I've had to make do with Evernote Mobile website and posting via email (for pictures). It's not ideal but it works fine and still lets me have access to things on my phone. There's no perfect solution. I think there's possibilities with Evernote's API if I could find time to write a client! - Lindsay is in 20-ten

Yea, but it doesn't work the same as OneNote's does. I can just hit Windows+N and pop up a little window that is pretty much advanced notepad. It works great. The pop-out window in Evernote (which you have to use to get to the unordered list button) isn't nearly the same. The Evernote website scales down to your G1 well? I'd love to see someone do something really unique with Evernote's API, I think it has a lot of potential. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Ruud, I see your point. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I agree there are several limitations that make Evernote worse than OneNote for capturing and searching notes... but OneNote doesn't run on Mac or iPhone or easily sync across multiple devices. - Jon Price

Jon, I guess you are right, but for an all Windows user like me, that's not something that really matters to me. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

I'm liking Evernote for a lot of reasons but it does have weaknesses. I won't commit to it until they have encryption at the notebook and note level (currently you can only encrypt a selection). Also, ease of notetaking needs to be improved. I want a pop-up window that I can stickpin on top of all other windows. - Rod Bauer from twhirl

I also want hierarchical notebooks so I can organize them. - Rod Bauer from twhirl

@Rod - Those three very things are the main reason I can't convert over from OneNote to Evernote. OneNote has them all, Evernote does not. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

Let me sum this up for you Aram... you don't like evernote... you love onenote and no matter how good evernote is, you are a onenote zealot... I have read all of your posts above and it is clear as a bell that you dont WANT to give it a chance... you WANT to hate it... you WANT it to fail... - CasperBoo

but the fact is, outside of academics on windows that have been using onenote since its inception, more people are signing up for and switching to evernote each day than those staying with or starting with onenote each month! You just can't beat reality... love it or hate it, this is the future of note taking... in the cloud with tags... folder structures are a thing of the past... the... more... - CasperBoo

I use it for storing recipes and knitting patterns (web clips and pdfs), primarily. Also, I keep my gluten free menus and lists in there so I can access them at the store or when deciding where we want to eat out. I also put my grocery list in there so no matter who is heading to the store, we can access it from our phone (you don't have to have an iPhone, there's a mobile interface). I hate the text editor, though. - Alix Whitmire

interesting. i feel just the opposite. the other day i was reading a book and ran out of power. since the charger was at the office, i found myself switching to the iphone and basically gave it up after 10 pages or so. however, im still not sold on the form factor of either device for reading books. - Chad Stoller

I love reading on the iPhone, too, but to me Kindle's killer feature is the New York Times and the Atlantic. - Mike Elgan

In this middle of this article (link below) is where I predict this exact thing last August. http://futureperfectpublishing.com/2008... - Mark Jeffrey

I can't say I agree...yet. I'd like to be down to one device too, but the Kindle still has value for me. - Nitin Badjatia

But don't you find the iPhone screen too small? I love Instapaper on the iPhone to read webpages on the go. But for me that only works with short texts. I don't see me reading a whole book on a smartphone like device. So I think it's too bad that Amazon is stil not selling the Kindle over here in Germany... - Bjoern - Hamburg, Germany

If you sell the Kindle, Steve, will you still be able to get books delivered to the iPhone? I also use the iPhone a good bit for reading portions of my Kindle purchases, although it strains the eyes after a while. But, I have been under the impression that I could not have books available on the iPhone unless they were first sent to the Kindle. ??? - Bruce Keener

Eventually I don't think it will matter which wireless-connected portable computer you'll use to read books and make phone calls. - Luca Fabbri

For a few pages the iPhone works great, but any sort of extended reading is difficult. Maybe 2 devices - Kindle and iPhone for me. - Jack Baty

I'm waiting for a pen-enabled Kindle to be my note taking device. - Rodfather

iPhone > Kindle - Louis Gray

@Bjoern, I read on the iPhone constantly - no issues. But wait 10 years! - Steve Rubel

@Bruce, yes, you can order books and the iPhone/iPod app will download them. - Steve Rubel

I thought you were just going to say DRM - Geoff Schultz

@Geoff no. I still buy ebooks from Amazon, but where I read them has moved. - Steve Rubel

Absolutely agree we want ONE device. But iPhone screen is 2 small & Kindle is 2 bulky and ultimately fragile. Implant? Headset-glasses-thing? I say I want a Dick Tracy wristwatch, but it's the same search for one ring to bind them all. Phone, camera, video, recorder, internet, text reading... are we likely to find a solution? I trust engineering to develop the answer. Old enough to recall 10 years of the computer world saying THIS is the year of graphics... until it finally WAS. - Mary Cole

@Mary, eventually the Apple netbook (aka a big iPod Touch) - Steve Rubel

Maybe you can wait a while and get a brand new iPhone,app store does sell ebooks as well - Steve Chou

The iPhone is fine for me, especially with the latest app upgrade. And I do like the backlight. - Mike Beck

I have and use both. But I can see your point about lugging one device during extensive travel. It'd be nice if the iPhone Kindle app let you read your subscriptions as well as your books. - Tom Landini

Tommy in due time I bet it will - Steve Rubel from IM

@Steve Thanks for clearing me up on that. This has been a very interesting and useful thread. Appreciate you starting the conversation. - Bruce Keener

I actually prefer Stanza over the Kindle app for the iPhone - Brian Appleby

I'm waiting until all of you to decide so I don't end up with a toxic waste dump of useless gadgets in my basement. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate all of you for figuring this out for me. Whatever we're excited about today will absolutely suck tomorrow. Gadgetophelia is a cruel mistress. - Jack Humphrey

When it comes to size of screen I wonder if people have finished reading one good book. I tell you, you fall through the pages just like with a regular book. I've been reading on handhelds since 2001. The same book magic is there -- and the screen was 2nd "nature" within a week or two. - Ruud Hein

I have been traveling to 4 european cities last week and I enjoyed taking it with me everywhere, along with my iphone and mac. Different purpose and worth the additional weight I think. - Loic Le Meur

Yes, I know that I’ve never used a Kindle- so what gives me the right to hate it? Plenty. I think it started off as a great idea. If it requires me to actually try it to believe it’s a great device- their marketing team has lots of work to do. E-readers seem like a great idea, but I don’t think Amazon/Kindle is making enough of a case for itself to justify I really NEED this device... more... - Ramsey Mohsen

Smartphones provide more than enough display area to read most ebooks comfortably (but not most textbooks). - Sean McBride

There is no question that the Kindle is still at Version .90 - reminds me of my first Tivo, into which I eventually hacked a network card and upgraded drives. Core paradigm great, needs a couple of hard ware revs to make beautiful - but the habit change engendered by Tivo (Episodic stories! Can follow a sports team with ease!) that resulted in better media engagement has its parallel on... more... - David Gifford

For me, I will will stick with the dedicated reader. I have tried reading on PDA's and phones before and it is just not as nice as reading on the Kindle, the screen is just not big enough. The only thing I dislike about reading on the Kindle, especially blogs and newspapers, is that I cannot share/save the articles I like. I really wish there was some social network type integration. Even if it was just a simple bookmarklet type function so that I could share on Twitter/FF or save to my Diigo account. - Sean Brady

@Ramsey your arguments are interesting until one bumps into ipod worshipping. total turn off :((( - A.T.

@David there is *one little hiccup* with Kindle - you need it to read ebooks from amazon. with books from shop you need only your eyes and some basic light. you are going into kind of dependency which you do not understand for 100%. What if tomorrow Amazon decides to raise prices (because almost all bookprinting went busted)? What if their service hacked, goes berserk and crashes your copies in Kindle? what if Sprint decides introduce their own *tax* on you? - A.T.

I really need the battery life of my phone... I don't think its worth it to drain my battery on the go so I can read, I would rather have a Kindle and not have to worry that I'm going to be left drained. - Frankie Warren

I can read news and short pieces just fine on my mobile phone. I read a LOT of books, though. I think I average nearly 4 or 5 books a month, sometimes more. Trying to read a book on a mobile phone is just not a pleasant experience. The eyestrain alone is too much for me. You won't hear about me selling my Kindle 2 anytime soon. :) - George A. Roberts IV

George -- I read about 10 books a month, and I find the eyestrain on a smartphone usually to be less than with hardcopy books. The text is crisp and clear; I can set the font to whatever size I like; the text is backlit to whatever setting I choose. And a smartphone is much easier to hold than many of the 800-page bricks that are published these days. Wherein precisely does the eyestrain reside? - Sean McBride

I've read four 500+ page fiction novels via the iPod/iPhone Kindle app this year. No complaints here! For news I've got the iPhone optimized versions of Google Reader and Friendfeed. - Daniel J. Pritchett

That´s exactly my main argument against the Kindle as well. It only does one thing very well and doesn´t replace anything. I´ll rather have a tablet with a screen compromise. - Thomas Bøhm

i disagree about the one device. when companies try to come up with the one device, it usually fails. the device does many things half as good. i know that is a standard argument, but for me one device is a pie in the sky dream. i have an iphone, and it does a lot of stuff well, but the kindle app is fine for short bursts of reading. overall, i find it limiting -- and the rub for the... more... - Daniel Langendorf

i was trying to go to one device with my blackberry or treo but seem to be drifting back to mulitple devices. I have a kindle that I love and think from a reading perspective is better than any other device. - Ted Kinzer

Could this be the answer to all? http://www.pcworld.com/article... - Jorge Escobar

After seeing the Kindle app for iPhone & iPod Touch, there is no way a Kindle is seriously considered as a purchase if they ever were. - Roney Smith

mmmm tasty! - Adam Lasnik

how about a basket of cats? :) http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Michael Bravo

Also yummy. Heard they tasted just like chic...er... oops, um, nevermind :) - Adam Lasnik

:D - edythe

March of the Penguins. Err, in place. - Josh Jenkins

They should use it as a sledge... - Martin Bryant

Too true! - Scott of Two Countries

PUPPIES!!! - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

The graphs exclude those on the left and right who fall outside of the Democratic-Republican spectrum (e.g. "pure progressives who think Democrats and Republicans jointly own puppy mills"). Low on percentage of population, low on media attention unless their names are Ralph Nader and Ron Paul. - Ontario Emperor

Centrists don't make the news.... because they're centrists. KTHXBAI! - tehKenny, Dork

It's a good news/bad news kind of thing. “If News is not really news unless it is bad news, it may be difficult to claim we are an informed nation” — Norman Cousins - Ruud Hein

brilliant. - Admiral Anika

Well, there is the comments and likes tab. I use it for that. - Neal Jansons

agreed with Neal - to me "liking" something is my way of bookmarking it for later... - Jeremy Toeman

I get the idea of liking but what I would prefer is a simple one link click in the More menu to "Bookmark" and then having a default link in the sidebar that you can click that will switching to displaying all your bookmarked items and then an easy way to remove them once you are done - Steven Hodson

I, too, would prefer a less cumbersome way of marking stuff. Something like Like, but private if I want it to be, or the option to share/hide Liked items on a per-item basis as I like them (and ability to adjust that status later, as well as delete, modify title, add notes, etc). - abacab

(I'd rather it not be buried in the More menu, either, honestly; one click should be enough to get something marked and let me move on.) - abacab

Much spam from my mybloglog too.:( - Igor Poltavskiy

HI FFERS!! :D - Tamar Weinberg

But I like seeing people's faces on my blog and I love the data I can pull with the Blog Juice bookmarklet. - Aram Zucker-Scharff from twhirl

Yeah, Aram. That was good when MyBlogLog was working. Now it's a vehicle for spammers to get eyeballs. They need to either combat it or it needs to be buried in the ground. - Tamar Weinberg

*shrug* It still works great for me. I guess I'm just not cool enough for the spammers to come after me :P The trick to being able to use MyBlogLog well is to be small. Huzzah for me, I guess. lol. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

arguing about the grip on the hammer. ;) - Oldengrey (Jay)

Paul Thurott. LoL. - Kevykev

I'll do better than that: I am a certified MS Systems Engineer - MCSE with Security & Messaging on Windows2003 Server platform ... 7 certifications / passed 10 exams. Aughh! *face palm* tragic i know - Susan Beebe

Aram LOL :) - Claudio Cicali ♋

It's becoming a different company under new leadership and the haters haven't quite caught up to that. They're still fighting the browser wars of 10 years ago. - Sprague D

I like their mice and Streets & Trips. Microsoft is good at some things. - Morton Fox

Sprague D - MS was a great company under Gates (who, by the way, on a personal level looks like a saint next to the ego-maniacal Jobs) and has always produced good products, quite a few of which were not browsers. Microsoft has always been a good company. - Aram Zucker-Scharff

By the way, since I'm digging a hole here with the Apple people, I also liked the Gates/Seinfeld ads. :P - Aram Zucker-Scharff

sadly, that's true - the first reaction about the windows live updates I got yesterday were pretty much: who cares? of course there are a few million hotmail users who will care, but they're not cool enough, I guess... - Frederic

liking jay's comment :) - mike "glemak" dunn

Yeah, let's all celebrate the news that they're releasing IE6 for Windows Mobile... you heard me right! IE6! Yes, it's almost 2009 and yes I said IE6! http://blogs.zdnet.com/microso... - Glenn Batuyong

Ah, but Microsoft doesn't make hardware. Unless you count mice. Or the Xbox 360. But still. - Victor Ganata

And I bet Scobleizer knows just which Chinese factory those things are made. Spill it, RS! - jamesdkirk

Random: Why is outbrain going crazy on this post? It is recommending that I go to a post about Febreze-to-go Fabric Refresher... Is Microsoft lemony-fresh? - Aram Zucker-Scharff

If I did know where things are made I probably can't tell you, sorry. - Robert Scoble

I will say this, though. PCH just bought Microsoft Dynamics to manage its supply chain. Oh, and I see a LOT of Windows machines in China. - Robert Scoble

Heh, I wonder what percentage of those machines have legitimate licenses? - Victor Ganata

Victor: more than you might expect. But there still is wild copying here. You can buy Windows and Office for a dollar or two in the streets. - Robert Scoble

Having administrated Microsoft domains since 99, I have to say that a combo of Active Directory, Exchange and a windows OS is extremely well done when it comes to corporate management. Throw in the other services that bolt right into AD and I have to tip my hat to MS, it's a very powerful system. I also believe passionately that MS should have used a wizardised AD-Lite in Home Server and shitcanned all versions of windows other than Pro/Ultimate and not charge as damn much! - alphaxion

I'm a PC! - Andre Maltais

andre: we're all PC's, just we all wear different tshirts and some think their tshirts are the only ones people should own ;) - alphaxion

The Xbox 360 is the only product of theirs that I love. (Rich) - Rich Harris

Kudos Steven. All so true. The decade ahead is going to be totally fascinating in tech. - Charlie Anzman

That's a great read, Steven Hodson. I think some departments/divisions inside of Microsoft are cooler than others. D - Alan Le

They are trying to turn it around, but they've still missed the point on many subject areas lately. They're starting many cool products, but keep missing the point on them, or just leave out blatantly obvious parts. And their marketing sucks. Though, I do still like them. - xero

I claim to be an insane Linux fan, but compared to other insane Linux fans out there, I'm quite moderate. I don't scream for the end of Microsoft. Torvalds said it best when he remarked, "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect." (http://query.nytimes.com/gst...) - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

From a purely web design point of view, for all the IE glitches I actually love the conditional stylesheet option. Other browsers will still glitch, but because they're *not supposed* to have inconsistencies, they have no elegant way of solving them. - Robin Cannon from twhirl

thanks @Charlie and @Alan - Steven Hodson

@xero I totally agree that their marketing sucks but that comes being too corp-centric ... If I was able to I'd fire half the marketing teams and setup two totally separate marketing departments one for corp and one for consumers because they have no idea how to do consumer marketing IMO - Steven Hodson

@possible248 as I said in the comments on the post to one person - I have respect for people who can intelligently articulate their disagreements with Microsoft and their products but I have no patience for rabid fanbois type bullshit - Steven Hodson

I am so not down with the "I'm a PC" ads. I don't know about you, but I'm not a damn machine. - Victor Ganata

I too am uncool. I like MS and I really can't stand Apple. Sorry. - David Cook - 2010!!!

Great post, Steven. I'm a PC, too. Yeah, I work for them...but I don't get paid to like them - that's my personal opinion. I was beyond excited when they asked me to join up. I don't need to work there - I have plenty of places I can blog and make money, like RWW for example. I just happen to think that Microsoft still does some pretty cool stuff & it's fun to write about. Oh, I'm not a FTE, btrw, just a blogger. - Sarah Perez

Thanks for the sentiment, Steven. I've been sufficiently annoyed by MS that I was displeased with them for a while. Until I realized one down how much of their stuff I use; functional, good stuff. And no... unless they do something huge and push really hard with it... not going to out-Google Google. See under: Yahoo. - Ruud Hein

The cloud is theirs for the taking, but only if they move fast enough. - Victor Ganata

I don't make business or technologial choices based on the cool-factor alone. Microsoft has still some work to do on the consumer side, but the dev and server side are really the reason why I'm so interested on everything they do. - Jemm

I use microsoft products when they work for me, and not when they don't. I have a hard time buying into coolness. But I've never been a cool guy. - Piaw Na

BASIC 2.0 made me a believer, but Windows 98 killed it for me. - Victor Ganata

wow .. they sure are making some interesting moves - Steven Hodson

I -really- tried to subscribe to MSN, as some professional contacts use it. Never succeeded! It told me that I don't use windows, blahblah.. I tried from my windows vista (verified certificate!), if I remember it told me that I don't use IE. Ok, I understood the message.. I mean: as Microsoft has a massive user base, windows live 'll be 'successful'. Allas, I'm not sure that this 'll be healthy for the Internet. - Thierry R. Andriamirado

For the moment I just see the old stuff: maybe a US/Canada thing? Note 1: Microsoft has been doing some really creative stuff since the end of 2006 (when they released Windows Live Writer). Note 2: now I want a contact manager that just works. Everywhere. Across the web. And programs... - Ruud Hein

love the alt text *cackle* - Michael W. May

lol re:alt text - mikepk

This is actually really important to me right now. I just posted .jpgs of text on our biz site and it looks great. I was wondering if .pngs wouldn't be better looking. - Admiral Anika

png also allows transparency to be set - Michael W. May

Transparency FTW! - LogEx

Is it true that IE *still* doesn't support PNG properly? - Victor Ganata

I don't know how to make transparent files. When I save my .png they come out with white backgrounds. :( - Admiral Anika

So are they saying that Flickr has it wrong, and that my digital photos should be uploaded to the web as png? They don't really state when one should use jpg and when to use png. And I definitely don't want my photos to look "trashy" as they put it. - Wizetux

@Victor IE6 doesn't know how to show PNG24 transparency - Shey, Jamaican of FF

@Anika What program are you using? - Shey, Jamaican of FF

I prefer PNG format myself - Susan Beebe

I like how the JPG guy in this comic has compression artifacts. @wizetux JPG was invented to compress photos, so they will look fine, usually. However, JPG doesn't do so well on thinks like text and line art... or anything with really high contrast actually. - Phil G

Wheres SVG? - Roberto Bonini

author here. glad you guys liked it.. friendfeed just became my new favorite website...@wiztux: jpg is ideal for photos, so no, flickr doesn't have it wrong - Louis Brandy

Hey Louis, welcome to FF. Looking forward to more of your comics. - Thomas Hawk

Hi Louis - that was really funny!, thanks!! :) - Susan Beebe

really really good! - Marcos Marado

Shey, I use Photoshop, but I'm not a genius at it. It seems that whenever I make a transparent graphic for the web, and I go to save it, it gives me the 4 options. And then tells me I have to merge everything and next thing you know it's a white background. - Admiral Anika

Welcome to FF, Louis. - Admiral Anika

Louis, Thomas, or anyone - how much larger, on average, is a PNG file vs. a JPG file? My image excursions are primarily limited to BMP and JPG. - Ontario Emperor

@Anika Use the File --> Save For Web command and be sure the Transparency is checked in the Save for Web dialog box - Shey, Jamaican of FF

@Anika: Are you using Slices? That's the best way. - John Wang

@OntarioEmp. It depends entirely on the image content and the file settings. For "computer-generated" things with low numbers of colors (like logos or diagrams) a well optimized PNG is usually smaller (and better-looking) than a JPEG. For anything with alot of color and gradients (like a photo), JPEG is superior and will be many times smaller than a PNG. - Louis Brandy

@Shey, that's what I do (I think), but I doesn't work for me. I get a white background. @John, I have no idea what Slices is. Is that a program or tool in PS? @Sean, thanks for the tip. I'll look into that. - Admiral Anika

@Anika: It's a tool. check out School of Photoshop ( http://www.tutorial9.net/photosh... ) - John Wang

I wonder what GIF has to say about this. He lacks transparency but man can he move :) - Andrew Smith

lol nice! - Alan Le

@Shey what about IE7 or IE8 in terms of transparency support? - Victor Ganata

Couldn't help laughing :) - Pranav Bhasin

Great tune! - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

another best of the 80s I tend to overlook - Michael W. May from twhirl

I was singing this last night after looking at Jeff McNeill's Bangkok pics. - Admiral Anika

"WAAA Your using our site like MySpace! WAAAAA" - CW™

^ me. Don't use Facebook for that purpose, I interact with or know every single one of my Facebook friends, Christopher. ;) Random requests = Do Not Want! - Mona Nomura

I'm with Mona. Hit me up here if you want to be friends with me - FF is a nice central hub for my internet persona and activities. Facebook is for staying in touch with real life friends and the goings on in their lives. - Eric P

I use FB the same way. Its more my public life rather then my social "internet" life. FF is serving that need right now. - CW™

but I have no real friends... - BuBBy Oxide

I have stayed away form FB for some time now and just feed into it. I cant find the value - Chris Miller from twhirl

*throws yet another draft away* ;) - abacab

I think social media is in danger of becoming a punch line someday :) I mean, I enjoy it - but it's pretty clear that social media and blogging need to be seen as the biased memepools they are. Then you can start getting value from them. Mark Hopkins hit it right on the head. http://is.gd/2u0x - Soulhuntre from twhirl

Ya - what is THIS? A cult? -starts humming kumbaya- - Mona Nomura

The most brilliant title to any post.. EVER.. how's that for jerkin ya off? :-) - Kyle Lacy

Liking purely for use of term 'circle jerk' =) - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Steven, you're dancing around the truth: people outside the bubble don't need us... at all. Social media's virtue is as a way to build networks that need not (and probably can not) break out of their niche. Even on FF, what is the most common request? Improved filters. Even in this bastion of "social networking" we seek to narrow even further our niche and make it a reflection of ourselves. Onanism is not a bad metaphor. - Sprague D

+1 Kyle and Tina - Alex Scoble

Steven: how long has it been since YOU worked a manufacturing job? Or since you wrote about their needs on your blog? Seems you have figured out how to write good headlines, though. Welcome to the headline writers guild of America! :-) - Robert Scoble

The title pissed me off. The title made me read. The title served its purpose. - Michael W. May

Can someone summarize this for me in one sentence please? - ·[▪_▪]·

Typo in the title, BTW. 'Social Media' isn't a circle jerk, but the people who talk about it might verge on one. If I have a conversation with a carpenter, s/he talks about more than the tools. Even if I were a carpenter, I would be bored to tears with a co-worker who only talked about the tools we use. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Robert kiss my ass :) I've been a store owner, a hot tar roofer (which is where I permanently injured myself) a truck driver a cab driver .. and most importantly I am part of the majority you have no idea of - the living poor so I think I am quite able to talk or write the way I do. - Steven Hodson

+2 @Sprague for this riff: "Onanism is not a bad metaphor." Still, I think the (huge) opportunity is out there to find a way to make this sh*t relevant to regular folks, like mom, and your boss' secretary. So how do we, uh, stop touching ourselves and start touching others outside the echo chamber? - .LAG liked that

+1 Steve. Well said sir, well said. - Kyle Lacy

@SB .. thanks on the Typo .... - Steven Hodson

Cool. I used to work on an assembly line. Sold ice cream. Delivered appliances. Was unemployed in 2002 for a time. But you didn't answer the important question: where is YOUR "outside the circle jerk" writing? - Robert Scoble

I haven't written much about social media lately. I really don't care what it is called. - Robert Scoble

I thought that was part of the point. Maybe I misinterpreted. - Michael W. May

The web is a communications infrastructure. It's not about social media but that it's designed to replace or enhance old platforms (phone, broadcast, radio) because it is less expensive, available everywhere, device agnostic and fault resistant. It is a better, cheaper and more stable system to deliver information in case of an emergency. When you see it as this, it changes the whole landscape of what will be important. - Patricia

@Robert now yer just being facetious .. there is plenty on the blog written about stuff other than social media in the 1,600+ posts - Steven Hodson

Commented on the blog, Steven. - Mark Dykeman

Hehe, Robert...Yeah, thankfully it's been a long while since you've blogged about Twitter. - Alex Scoble

like just for the use of "Circle Jerk" in title - adolfo foronda

This line, in the last paragraph, is interesting, "They [fiends and family] are looking to us to help keep them safe and show them what the best tools are or what the worst ones are and why." I'm reminded of how I introduce the tools of social media to my immediate family members. Instead of saying, "Go start a FaceBook profile or Flickr/Picasa account," I instead start them out in a... more... - Christopher Harley

Faster pussycat! - Indio Apache from twhirl

After this thread, I think I'm going back to the Hurricane room??!! - Charlie Anzman

So, wait, who's the pivot man again? - abacab

Not it! - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

The idea that what you or Scoble, to name two, write would even *reach* the people who "are looking to us to help" is a circle jerk in itself. Unless you're a publicized techno columnist in major media or do 2 minute segments on TV you're talking for, about and to other people just like you. - Ruud Hein

Christopher, 'fiends' was a lovely freudian slip ;-) - Sally Church

That people "don’t care about the rarified ideals of what social media might bring." is true (but should not stop others from *thinking* out loud about these things...) but it's also true that in a world where 51% of Internet users do *not* regularly use a search engine, astounding numbers of people not only not care about the ideals of soc. media: they don't care about it. Dot. - Ruud Hein

@rizzn - Is there a point at which government is micro enough to adequately represent your interests? - Mark Dykeman

+1 Mark - Alex Scoble

(great, it looks like I replied to myself...) - Mark Dykeman

I'm not sure that a global government would work. The larger the organization, the more complex the governing tasks are. We can't even do government right at the national level right now, trying to do a global government would be an outright disaster. - Alex Scoble

Generally, I'm ok with state-level government. Stuff that size suits me fine. Racial politics aside, I like the idea of a confederatation of states, rather than the federalist government we have. Weak executive, strong legislative. Generally, I think most of Texas government works well despite the size of the state. I *really* like the idea of city-states, but until we either progress or regress significantly geo-politically, we won't see much of that in our world. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

One of the classic arguments for centralization is economies of scale, purchasing clout, etc. How could we compensate for that with decentralization? - Mark Dykeman

Where confederations break down though is when it comes to things like education and taking care of disasters (natural, economic or otherwise)...We need to have a strong educational system where the curriculum is pushed from the top down and where resources are shared equally across the country. We shouldn't be in a position where a child from one state has a much better education than a child in another state. All children should get a world class education. This is an investment worth making. - Alex Scoble

What about transportation (highways, etc.)? Better as a national institution? - Mark Dykeman

Strong education is better achieved through privatizing it. The CATO institute has some amazing papers and studies on this, but when I ran a candidate for Texas Legislature, education was our platform, hence I've got a pretty good handle on the issues there. Even if education were nationalized, you don't need a strong federalist government to achieve that. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

Rizzn: education is decentralized in Canada, at provincial level - Mark Dykeman

I don't really care how you go about educating the children as long as it's standardized for everyone (no counties should be able to slip creationism into the science curriculum for instance) and is high quality for all. Basically there should be a minimum level of benefits that everyone gets and we need stronger regulation of corporations. I don't care if weak or strong government can do those things, but it needs to be done. - Alex Scoble

+1 Mark. Seriously, government's inefficient as hell. - Ben Parr

And seriously...we need to greatly increase teacher pay so that we attract and keep the best and brightest to the field. - Alex Scoble

Don't think so, look at the bureaucracy that's the European Union! - Victor Ryden

Centralized global government = FAIL. Even the EU is running into issues because of the wide variety of people contained within it. In my country, not only the Federal government, but also the State (California) government, is often too remote to be responsive. I can't imagine this working on a global basis. - Ontario Emperor

Yeah, government is inefficient because there is no real incentive at any level to change that. At least with corporations, there is some incentive to increase efficiency. - Alex Scoble

Alex - there is incentive as long as there is competition - Mark Dykeman

There is no competition for the government...who are they competing against? Other governments? Well other governments are even more inefficient than ours, by and large (take China for example). - Alex Scoble

I can't attest to the inefficiency of the US or Chinese governments as I don't live in either country - Mark Dykeman

Reflexively saying "we need to increase teacher pay" doesn't make sense. Education is one of the only things in this country that when it fails, we reward it with more money. That incentivizes failure. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

It's not a reflex, Mark. But you think what you want. - Alex Scoble

personally I prefer redundancy. however if our civilization is to evolve beyond type 1 civilization, won't we at least need to have some form of global governance? what kind of gov't do they have on Star Trek? sorry for looking too far ahead? ;) - ~C4Chaos

I believe that the Federation government is roddenberryist, but I could be mistaken. - Mark Dykeman

@Alex: that's rather dismissive. Let me ask - why are you for increasing teacher salaries? Because there isn't enough quality teachers. Though you'd rather get better teachers in there by offering better salaries, what you're actually calling for is rewarding bad teachers with more money in the hopes that it'll get better. That's a *reflex* against our education system's poor results. Rewarding failure. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

Sorry, I had to eat dinner. Hey, if you think you are going to keep qualified masters degree holders with $45k a year, you just keep on paying them that (average pay for teachers in the US with starting pay being around $35k on average). You want to deal with bad teachers, that requires a different remedy altogether, but you can't link the necessity to get qualified good teachers in the system with the need to also get rid of unqualified teachers. There are separate mechanisms for each. - Alex Scoble

So instead of saying "increasing teacher pay isn't a good idea," why not try instead to say, "increased teacher pay is great as long as there is a mechanism for getting rid of unqualified teachers." My fiance also wants to know why you think the education system is failing. And also I'd say that corporations raise pay all the time to find and keep the best talent, why is the school system any different? - Alex Scoble

If we are invaded by aliens, maybe. - Rodfather

I don't know that there's enough space here in this box to describe the ways that public education fails America. The easy answer is the complete and total lack of preparation for the real world it provides. Put it this way: the only thing highschool did to prepare me for my current job was to understand the dynamics of high school drama (tech blogosphere = HS lunchroom). As for real skills of any kind, if I hadn't had the urge to develop them and teach myself, I'd be totally useless. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

OK, and this has what to do with teachers exactly? Do teachers create the curriculum? No. These days our elementary schools are moving to completely scripted programs where the teachers have absolutely no control over what is taught. We require these teachers to have masters degrees yet do not trust them to really teach, nor do we respect them enough to pay them a proper wage. And if you think $45k a year is a proper wage for someone with a masters, I want what you are smoking. - Alex Scoble

I will say that the failure isn't typically at the teacher level, but at the district level, starting with the curriculum. I don't have a vendetta against teachers, but I do see a system that breeds a haven for incompetence at all levels. Growing up I had four teachers that really put their all into their work, and a lot of teachers that were collecting paychecks until retirement kicked in. You move up to the Admin level, and you're really going to see those numbers tilt further towards incompetent boobs. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

yes, greed takes over in all theoretical governing practices....then there's the rich & the poor - clarke thomas

I agree with a lot of that last paragraph. The schools that seem to do the best are the ones that run with a lean support /admin staff and really give the teachers the best tools for doing their jobs while also giving them a wage that says they are respected. - Alex Scoble

In most states, schools do not require them to have masters degrees, actually. I taught school for a semester at the middle school level with no college degree under my belt, during the tech bust. $45k for someone with a HS diploma is superb money, and is actually not too far shy of what what a lot of masters graduates make, depending on the profession. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

I used to believe that such a system was inevitable. But that was before I saw the sheer inhumanity of men like Saddam Hussein and Robert Mugabe. There is just too much evil in the world for a system like to work. - Michael K Pate

One way that Texas government fails is with the Independent School District idea. I don't know how prevalent this idea is around the country, but I know in Texas it's lead to some of the highest property taxes in the nation, as well as some of the most salacious scandals involving corrupt and witless admins and principals. Contrasted with the Broward public schools (a unified school district with a yearly budget bigger than most valley startups), they're able to achieve a lot more postive results with a ... - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

... a lot less people involved collecting paychecks. That's why you see kids going home with their own loaner laptops there instead of getting one computer per two classrooms here in Texas. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

The main problem with both systems is that it's run off the government piggybank. It's all seen as free money by administrators, so there isn't a sense of responsibility in how it's spent. In a private school situation, parents are shareholders in their kids' education, and are a lot more vocal about how the education is shaped. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

No, although I'd prefer the Canadian and Australian model over the US, where we have a Federal Government structured roughly on the English model, with States beneath that. There are some things that are always done better locally. - Duncan Riley

Duncan - but some things are done better centrally? - Mark Dykeman

Amen. I personally abandoned blog-style layouts a long time ago. Readers won't lament the Long, Long Scroll's demise. :-) - Chris Baskind

Ditto Candace - Amber, Random Time Lord

@Chris that is one of the reasons why I switched to the magazine style for WinExtra along with faster page load time - depending on your hosting service of course and how widget heavy the blog is - Steven Hodson

I like to read via feed. Other items I often follow deep links from sites like Lifehacker. What's good about not having full posts on the front page is that people still often don't know these items roll off that page. Summary-only it becomes clear which page should be emailed/linked. - Ruud Hein

Hmm... I am so out of touch... *googles* - Michael W. May from twhirl

I keep thinking about it, but it's hard to watch tv because of the dog - there's no television in the living room, where the dog is confined. - Nine

set it up on the DVR so that I could watch it starting at about 9 and skip what's bound to be endless product placement commercials - Nathan Chase

Fringe is friggin awesome. - mjc

Initial reactions to what I've seen over 3 minutes: sexing up a CGI X-Files rehash, eh? - Michael W. May from twhirl

I always give JJA a chance, plus it looks pretty cool anyway. So yeah. But probably not live. *hugs DVR* - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

it's got a fair amount of CGI in some parts but I absolutely LOVED the character development. I really don't want to spoil it for others but there are some parts that had me absolutely rolling in laughter and others that made me think. - mjc

Sweet, I'll take these as a vote of confidence to queue it up. - Mark Trapp

It's set for the DVR at my house - I've liked almost all of JJ Abrams' stuff, so I'm interested to see what this will look like. - Jennifer Dittrich

the beginning is GREAT if you have anyone squeamish in your house. a girl I was seeing when I saw it actually puked. :/ - mjc

the timer is set... let the show begin... - Harold

thanks for the heads up. tuned in right now. freaky intro - Hao Chen

I was able to see a copy of the premier a few weeks ago. Non-plussed. Although the scientist is kinda quirky. "Let's make acid!" - tagami

is the doctor a savant? - Hao Chen

you ruined it for them tagami :( - mjc

the commercials are pretty good. - Hao Chen

So much brow furrowing! - Mark Trapp

it was a good show :) - looking forward to the full series but I know there are going to be a lot of X-Files comparisons once people have watched it. - Steven Hodson

omg spore commercial!~ - Hao Chen

I love that the son keeps calling bullshit on all the pseudo-science! - Mark Trapp

@michael - oh I did not. That _was_ a good line though! - tagami

just catching some of it now - Mark Dykeman

I liked the stuff about the cow - RAPatton

am catching the 2nd half - Archangel ωαřмaiden

Be careful and good luck. - Hao Chen

I'm probably way off, but was that Maude Lebowski? - Mark Trapp

Ah, I always love that one scene that makes the shift from made-for-tv-movie to premise-for-entire-series. - Mark Trapp

PACEY PACEY PACEY PACEY PACEY PACEY. That is all. - Meg v. Meg v. 1.0.0.1

Recording Fringe (XP Media Center).That it's being compared with X-Files means I have to see it :-) - Ruud Hein