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Chris › Likes
Evidence that Religion Really Does Poison Everything - http://scienceblogs.com/primate... - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Neil de Haan, Dickbuttkick, Chris Hofmann and 6 other people liked this
"This is painful to watch. If you can make it through to the attempted moonwalk I'll give you a cookie."
- Eivind
This may replace "Jesus is a Friend of Mine" as the worst thing ever.
- Chris
Sorry, i could only take 0:38 :P
- Ken Morley
Try again from the 2 minute mark, Ken. Don't know if that'll earn you a cookie, but at least you'll get to see the moon walk :)
- Eivind
I'm thinking you probably didn't have to hand out many free cookies, ;-)
- Anna Webber
I'm not handing out the cookies. I'm just the messenger, but if you made it through I'll make sure you get one.
- Eivind
AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAgaspHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
- Dan C
...my sides hurt from laughing...I blame you, Eivind.
- Dan C
They shoulda called the video "White Christians can't dance."
- Mark
Sorry 'bout that, Dan. Have a cookie :)
- Eivind
I don't know what's scarier, the song, that guy's dancing or the fact they get applause.
- Toby Graham
the blond girl is pretty cool. the attitude in her moves is great. if youd see her in a club dancing with that attitude youd think she rox... amirite?
- Chris Hofmann
That guy is possessed by the devil. Kill him!
- willdarling
Genius!! I bet the afterparty was HOT.
- Edward Zwart
WTF was that?!
- Maxamad
Kirk Cameron's 'Origin Of Species' Plan: Ex-Actor To Distribute 50,000 Altered Darwin Books - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009...
tinypants - Hagitha of FF, Andy Bakun, PENGUIN: MAJOR CAPS LOCK and 18 other people liked this
"...would that be okay with you...? ...Kirk?" heh heh, love that response!
- Edward Zwart
from Bookmarklet
Our cute little friend is back. ...and the girl too.
- Edward Zwart
That's a great shot of him. Really conveys the pleading of his conscience to stop this madness.
- Lucas Parker
I want that special edition of 'The Origin of Species'. If any of you get the opportunity, please grab one for me.
- Eivind
I know, that'll be a collector some day!
- Edward Zwart
I found the 50 page introduction on their page: http://assets.livingwaters.com/pdf...
- Eivind
From the intro: "Consider for a moment whether you could ever believe this publication happened by accident. Here’s the argument: There was nothing. Then paper appeared, and ink fell from nowhere onto the flat sheets and shaped itself into perfectly formed letters of the English alphabet. Initially, the letters said something like this: “fgsn&k cn1clxc dumbh cckvkduh vstupidm ncncx.” As...
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- Eivind
Yes, yes I see...
- Edward Zwart
"Here are some interesting questions for the thinking evolutionist: Can you explain which came first—the blood or the heart—and why? Did the heart in all these different species of fish, reptiles, birds, and mammals evolve before there were blood vessels throughout their bodies? When did the blood evolve? Was it before the vessels evolved or after they evolved? If it was before, what...
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- Eivind
This one I haven't heard before :)
- Eivind
So because Kirk is too stupid to figure out how the cardio-pulmonary system evolved that invalidates the theory of evolution? Funny, if I had known that was how science works, I would have skipped all that dang learnin' and just started disproving stuff.
- Alex Scoble
"Do you believe that nothing created everything? If you do, then your “nothing” isn’t nothing. It is something because it had the amazing ability to create everything. So do you then believe that something created everything, although you are not sure what that something was?51 Keeping in mind that the most intelligent of human beings can’t create a grain of sand from nothing, do you...
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- Eivind
Did they just quote-mine Albert Einstein?
- Lucas Parker
"Many of our greatest scientists believed in the existence of a Creator: Galileo, Newton, Nicholas Copernicus, Francis Bacon, Michael Faraday, Louis Pasteur and Kepler, just to name a few." Nice. Can we also point out that Galileo was almost burnt at the stake by the church for improving upon and promoting Copernicus' work...which Copernicus DIDN'T promote more because he was afraid of...
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- Dan C
Hehe, you seem disappointed they didn't provide a balanced an fair bio on these scientists, Dan. Well, that's just not "the way of the master" :)
- Eivind
I loved the response video.
- Shannon Jiménez
Eivind, you asked about getting a copy... http://www.livingwaters.com/index...
- Edward Zwart
Canadians can look for the handouts at these Universities: Ottawa University, Carleton University, Queen's University, University of Toronto, York University, McMaster University, Guelph University, Brock University, U of Western Ontario, Concordia University, McGill University, U of New Brunswick, Memorial U of Newfoundland, Dalhousie University, University of Manitoba, U of Saskatchewan, University of Alberta, University of Calgary, Simon Fraser University, U of British Columbia, University of Victoria
- Victor Kamutzki
The response video was awesome! Who is that girl?
- Gordon Herd
Nov 19 @ UVic. It's on the calendar. ...gonna try to save Eivind $5.
- Edward Zwart
I want one too!
- David (slumrig)
++ Alex - man, I don't understand how ships in a bottle are made. Does that mean they're against god? (also - yeah, I want one of those books; they're going to be collectors items pretty soon, I think.)
- Jennifer Dittrich
@Sustained - I look at it this way - I am religious, but I very, very much believe in the scientific method. Religious beliefs don't preclude rigorous science, in the same way that I don't believe you need religious beliefs to be a moral/ethical person. People are always trying to tie those things together.
- Jennifer Dittrich
Yes, but obviously, rational thought precludes you being Kirk Cameron.
- Alex Scoble
I'm with you Sustained. Science and religion are incompatible, if by religion you mean accepting things on faith, ie, without evidence.
- Edward Zwart
Er, why? If I believe in god, why does that make me bad at conducting a double-blind study or filling pipettes? There's no good evidentiary support for that. That, in and of itself, is bad science. With that, I'm pretty much checking out of this conversation.
- Jennifer Dittrich
Is there good evidence for believing in god?
- Edward Zwart
@Edward - no, and (unlike Kirk) I'm not making that argument. Is there good evidence that scientists who are religious are bad at their jobs?
- Jennifer Dittrich
I suppose if you said, I am scientific at all times other than when I am being religious, I'd nod, but that's my point, they're incompatible.
- Edward Zwart
Fair enough, I think we agree. I'm fine with saying that scientists who are religious are not (necessarily as a result of being religious) bad at their jobs. But that's not inconsistent with saying the two are incompatible. They're simply no longer religious when they're doing (good, anyway) science.
- Edward Zwart
Well, no matter what, I think we can agree that this altered book is a great example of bat-shit craziness run amok.
- Jennifer Dittrich
Thanks for trying to get me a copy, Ed. You will of course get your reward in heaven ;)
- Eivind
Agreed Jennifer. And soon to be a collector's item!! (I hope) :)
- Edward Zwart
Have you seen the "atheist nightmare" video, Dave? These guys have been infamous on atheist websites for a while now. http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Eivind
The video on their site is hilarious!!! "Did you know that every day, 150,000 people die?!!!" No shit, you're just learning this now? Later... "...the secret is, to bypass the intellect.." uh huh, more for the same shitless category...
- Edward Zwart
Just wanted to say that I second pretty much everything Jennifer said. Also, as a scientist and a believer in God, I have absolutely no problem reconciling my beliefs with the Theory of Evolution. I think it's ridiculous for someone to say that you have to either be 100% science or 100% religious. If there were no middle ground, it would be a sad, sad world indeed! The fact that I can have faith in something which may not have supporting "evidence" does not make me less rigorous of a scientist.
- Jenny R.
I simply fear The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
What's middle ground here, Jenny? Are you 50% god and 50% science (whatever that means)? I guess the belief that a supreme being created the universe and the laws of nature (deism) and then stepped back is compatible with science, but I don't think Christianity (or other forms of theim) is. Believing in the bible means believing the laws of nature doesn't always apply.
- Eivind
And how do you decide when to be "scientific" (rely on evidence) and when to be religious (rely on faith)? Is there ever a time when it "really matters" that you choose door #2?
- Edward Zwart
I don't consult God when using the scientific method. Religion does not factor into my interpretation of my results. I believe in a divine creator, but that doesn't change the fact that I completely value and accept scientific findings. It's not about "choosing" to be either scientific or religious at any given moment. I follow and use science. Just because science has not provided...
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- Jenny R.
And there are plenty of religious scholars, philosophers, etc. who pursue their questioning of religion as objectively, thoroughly and as skeptically as any scientist. They just aren't on TV...much.
- Alex Scoble
Just as a side note, I caution people who "believe" in science like it's infallible. Science is done by people and people make mistakes. I couldn't tell you how many papers I have read with some earth-shattering idea, only to be contradicted in future studies. I think as long as one is mindful of the limitations of science, they're okay. There's a lot going on out there that we just can't understand or explain, despite our best, most earnest efforts. :-/
- Jenny R.
Of course people make mistakes! Science is full of that! Another mistake people could be cautioned about is believing in a divine creator even though there's no evidence for one.
- Edward Zwart
Jenny, in which gods do you believe?
- Dan C
Yep, the idea that we can't understand everything about the universe is actually scientific theory backed by rigorous evidence.
- Alex Scoble
So "god of the gaps" is the solution then?
- Eivind
I believe in a creator and a judge, God. I was raised as a Christian, but left the "fold" a long time ago. My spiritual philosophy comes from a mixture of Buddhism, Taoism, and Christianity.
- Jenny R.
What are the criteria for the judgment? The bible, parts of the bible, the golden rule?
- Eivind
DAMIT EIVIND! I was JUST about to post this: So does that mean you simply pick and choose the tidbits you like from each of those religions? What are your criteria for choosing?
- Dan C
Come on Eivind, quit stealing my ideas! lol
- Dan C
Great minds think alike, eh? :-p
- Eivind
Another related question... similar to the one I asked above, when is it okay to pick and choose what you like, and when do you have to rely on science? When is picking not enough?
- Edward Zwart
I mean, why bother with science at all if you can pick and choose?
- Edward Zwart
(Sorry, don't mean to bombard you with questions, but I hope you answer.)
- Edward Zwart
My question to you is: Why do you care what I believe or the origins of my belief? Do you really care or are you trying to undermine someone's faith? I have already stated that my faith does not affect how I use the scientific method. As someone who is 100% in support of the Theory of Evolution, I assure you, I am not the "enemy." I have never been able to figure out why people without...
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- Jenny R.
To answer your question, Jenny: I am very fascinated by and interested in how people customize and adapt their religion to the society at large. How they tend to stick with the religion they happen to be born into, and how religious believes are also influenced by fashion (like the trendiness of eastern religions/philosophy atm.). Your particular blend is a very interesting (and maybe...
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- Eivind
@Eivind- I had a pretty extreme religious upbringing that nearly resulted in me losing my faith completely. It was only through a period of intense prayer/meditation that my answers came to me. I am definitely aware of the trendiness of Eastern religions at the moment. ;-) I don't like labeling myself as any particular thing because I don't really "fit" anything. Someone mentioned the...
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- Jenny R.
Good for you, Jenny, you've come a long way :) Sure you don't want to take that final step? Remember: we atheists do it unsupervised ;)
- Eivind
Jenny, we're not trying to attack you, although I can see how our "barrage" of questions could give that impression. Also, I'm sure I also speak for Eivind and Ed when I say that I know quite well how it feels to be repeatedly made to explain and defend your worldview, so I understand how our questions might annoy you. But like Eivind said, it's honest curiosity. If you're right and I'm...
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- Dan C
I'll go one further.. Yes, I'm genuinely curious about the phenomenon of belief in something that cannot be explained by someone who is obviously a scientist. But yes, I also want to undermine your beliefs. You see, I think believing something when there's no evidence for it is something we should shed rather than respect. There are all sorts of behaviors that once were considered...
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- Edward Zwart
So.. please read this when your being a scientist: how do you chose between scientific and being religious? (And yes, I've played my hand by saying I do want to undermine your beliefs, but I also have the goal of making the world a better place.)
- Edward Zwart
Yes, I am sure I don't want to take that final step. :-) Dan, there is no way for me to say I am right and you are wrong. I don't judge people for being Bible-thumpers or for being atheists. It is their choice and I respect that. The problem for me is that I get flack from both sides. More often than not, I am trying to convince a die-hard Christian that evolution makes sense, just let...
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- Jenny R.
@Edward I am not sure I see the argument against belief that you are trying to make. Certainly we learn over time that certain traditions are not beneficial to us as humans. Having faith in a power larger than ourselves does not seem to relate well to your examples. People have been paying homage to Gods and higher powers on this planet for millennia. The faces and names have changed...
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- Jenny R.
For the sake of "texture" I'd like to say that having a belief in something greater out there may be the only thing that keeps some of us going day after day. I, for one, could not imagine a more dismal existence than believing this life on Earth is a complete fluke, nothing more than coincidence or luck. That being said, to each his/her own. :-)
- Jenny R.
Jenny, I just want to point out that I don't see it as my choice to be an atheist. I can't really make a choice to believe or not to believe something. I can choose (to a certain degree) to trust different sources or not to trust them, but being an atheist is a result of a rejection of several ancient sources while accepting/taking inspiration from the works of some great men. It's not like I can just choose to "switch sides" now (although I can pretend).
- Eivind
I am definitely not missing the utter beauty of life as it exists on earth, whether blooming for a day or persisting hundreds of thousands of years (although I don't find cockroaches beautiful, I marvel at their staying power). There is no doubt that I feel most spiritual when surrounded by the raw, natural beauty on this planet and decidedly uncomfortable sitting in a church. I am...
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- Jenny R.
Jenny, your reduction of life on Earth to mere coincidence severely misrepresents both abiogenesis and evolution. Could you clarify that statement?
- Mark
Eeep! Hope your son is ok!
- Mark
Jenny, the answer I'm looking for is the one to the question that I have put to you now several times: How do you decide when to apply scientific principles versus religious ones? When do you require evidence, and when faith? For instance, when you are studying ecology, I doubt that you would argue one theory's merits over another's by saying that many ecologists believe it and have...
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- Edward Zwart
More questions.... If evolution is true, and it was set in motion by a divine creator, at what point to species get souls? Does a salmon have one? Do they have ten commandments? Four only (one for each fin)? As Dave asks, as a scientist, what do you do with the hypothesis that the human brain, and its evolution, is responsible for the invention of the belief in a higher power? Does that hypothesis have ANY merit worth considering?
- Edward Zwart
LOL You guys are a tough crowd! Suffice it to say, a higher power gets a pass from me because it's *my* spirituality, *my* beliefs, and I am not trying to sell them to a single, solitary person, not even my own children. I leave it up to every individual to live their life the way they want to. I am never going to be able to explain in a way that satisfies you how I can be a scientist...
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- Jenny R.
I think you've explained it fully. You simply do not apply scientific principles while having faith. We started there. The two are incompatible. My question is how you decide which to apply and when. Saying that goddidit, and then encountering evolution, and replying, goddidit, and then when we discover that maybe we invented god, you just replied: goddidthattoo. :) This sort of...
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- Edward Zwart
Sorry, Jenny, I just have to ask one more thing (for now). How can you not try and "sell" your believes to your children when you believe in a judging god? Won't that put them in risk of going to hell? Won't you even warn them?
- Eivind
@Eivind We're going to have to start a new discussion elsewhere so I don't have to look at Kirk Cameron's creepy-looking mug any more. ;-) I can get away with not selling my personal beliefs to my children and not worrying about their eternal souls by teaching them to be good people. The Golden Rule is, well, golden at our house. I don't think that someone has to pray to or worship a...
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- Jenny R.
BTW, I believe you when you say that you consider dozens of hypotheses, and that you choose to spend your time pursuing other answers, and I completely respect that. But, I *would* like to point out that considering how you decide between being religious or scientific is not *that* tough a question... and you still haven't answered it! ;)
- Edward Zwart
@Edward Seeing as how I don't belong to any particular religion, I am hesitant to even use the term "religious," but I will for the sake of this discussion. I am "religious" when it comes to my belief in a higher power. I am "religious" when I pray at night. I am "religious" when I marvel in awe at the beauty in this world that I believe to be the ultimate creation of God. I am...
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- Jenny R.
Jenny, you say, "it's *my* spirituality, *my* beliefs, and I am not trying to sell them to a single, solitary person," and yet you ARE trying to stop other people from having their equally valid beliefs about creationism! What's different about *their* spirituality and *your* spirituality, and why do they have to give up theirs and accept evolution when you get to keep your irrational beliefs about the origin of life?
- Dan C
...and I agree that it's annoying having to see Kirk every time I come to check this conversation.
- Dan C
Officially done with this discussion. Thanks to all who were civil.
- Jenny R.
Are you implying that I'm not being civil? I'm just trying to understand what appears to me to be a contradiction. You say it's wrong for people to have irrational beliefs about the origin of species, but that it's ok for you to have your own irrational beliefs about the origin of life. That's all. What part of that is not civil?
- Dan C
I'll answer you with Jenny's exact words: "After learning about how natural selection works and the simplicity and beauty of Darwin's Theory, I was an instant convert. It's been my "mission" ever since to teach others about these concepts so they can see for themselves that there really is no controversy and the Theory of Evolution makes perfect sense." So I'm just trying to figure out...
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- Dan C
The fact that the two belief systems co-exist peacefully in Jenny's life is precisely what I've been questioning all along! I happen to believe one half of that co-existence is completely fabricated. I guess, wink wink, if I just tried a little harder... Still curious when souls appeared...
- Edward Zwart
Ta Dah! - http://bits.rawlinson.us/post...
Avenger, Jenny Morman, David (slumrig) and 5 other people liked this
Usually people leave out step 3, "a miracle occurs" (often abbreviated as "???"), but He left out step 4: "profit".
- Andy Bakun
...and for my next trick...
- Edward Zwart
I love the sentence: "To save you from the sin I originally condemmed you to"
- Dickbuttkick
that that line is what cracked me up too
- Bill Rawlinson
ta fucking dah!!!
- Eivind
... yeah that sums it up.
- Avenger
Fwd: Carl Sagan's Last interview Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch... (via http://friendfeed.com/library...)
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"we've arranged a society based on science and technology in which nobody understands anything about science and technology. and this combustible mixture of ignorance and power sooner or later is gonna blow up in our faces"
- Edward Zwart
a evermore apt warning from more than a decade ago
- Edward Zwart
what a very good way of putting things Sagan had!! He describes understanding basic science as no more difficult than understanding sports scores/standings/statistics, and then points out that the main issue when it comes to rejecting science is not its difficulty but rather the fact that its objective is to describe the world as it IS and not as what makes us feel good. BINGO
- Edward Zwart
The Most Geniusest Conservative Christian Political Cartoons in the 6,000 Year History of the Universe | Indecision Forever | Comedy Central - http://blog.indecisionforever.com/2009...
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Bill Rawlinson, Ken Morley, Edward Zwart and 2 other people liked this
LOL, love the fox news cartoon!
- Janice
"You're gonna let all the fatwa vapors in!" Love it.
- Chris
Funny stuff!! But I have a different opinion than the author about EZ GAS.
- Edward Zwart
oh Snap! LOL Ed
- Janice
Jim Jefferies on God, Heaven and the Devil - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Edward Zwart, Eivind and Chris liked this
I think I found a new favorite comedian.
- Rob H.
from Bookmarklet
Saw this when it aired, I had too after watching the commercials. (Thought after the religion bit he got a little out there for me.)
- Heather
Yes, at this moment, he is my fav new comedian. I saw this stand up about a week half ago on HBO or SHOTIME.. funny as hell.
- Hutch
P.Z. Myers: Why is Charlotte Allen so mad at atheists? - Los Angeles Times - http://www.latimes.com/news...
Eivind, Mark, Mark H and 2 other people liked this
"Most of the arguments we've heard that try to reconcile god and science seem to make God a subtle, invisible, undetectable ghost who at best tickles the occasional subatomic particle when no one is looking. It seems rather obvious to us that if his works are undetectable, you have no grounds for telling us what he's been up to."
- Edward Zwart
University of Wisconsin Digital Collections - http://uwdc.library.wisc.edu/Collect...
Chris liked this
A huge collection of online books, free for the reading. Many of the books have high-res photos to boot.
- Etymology Freak
from Bookmarklet
Looks like a great way to kill a few hours.
- Chris
The Fowler Collection - http://www.ibiblio.org/linebac...
Word nerd alert! Have you ever thought to yourself "Gee, I think my vocabulary has become too fancy and Latinate?" Probably not. But if you ever did think that, this would be a good resource to turn to. Henry Watson Fowler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...) was a writer, grammarian, teacher and academic who believed that the English tongue had strayed too far from its roots. This massive list of words is almost all Germanic (with a few early borrowings thrown in for some reason), but some of the etymologies are a bit wack i.e. arm (as in, part of the body) does NOT come from Latin. In any case, this is a fun list for word nerds to peruse.
- Etymology Freak
from Bookmarklet
A great point made in comic form, if only I had thought of this a few months ago: http://www.celticbear.com/weblog...
April Russo (app103), parsonii, Edward Zwart and 4 other people liked this
Atheists only believe in one less god than most religious do.
- April Russo (app103)
The Evolution of the College Dorm - Photo Essays - TIME - http://www.time.com/time...
Chris liked this
Some of the amenities offered these days are insane. Whatever happened to living a semi-austere life through college? And is it really a good idea to limit your potential social group only to other kids from rich families? I think the more traditional dorm experience can help give people a different perspective. If you extend the lap of luxury from childhood into your college experience, you're not learning a damn thing about living. On the plus side, I appreciate that out-of-state rich kids are essentially offsetting my tuition costs.
- Etymology Freak
I lived in a dorm that didn't have phones in the rooms and only had hot water some of the time. Oh, and I had to walk uphill to school both ways in the snow. But the dorm thing is true.
- Chris
I never had the dorm experience (transferred as a junior), but I lived in low-cost, not-very-glamorous housing through undergrad. And I'm glad I did. Some people are really sick of it by the time they're done and they immediately move to the burbs to get something "new and nice," but for me, it just made me realize that my living situation is not really a source of happiness for me. It's more about where it is and what it's by than how big the living room is and how beautiful the countertops are.
- Etymology Freak
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