Yeah - there's plenty of room for everyone. When Twitter finally dies, you'll all say 'Christ - I wish I had an archive of all my Tweets.' Peace, love, empathy.
- Andy C
I keep thinking that "Twitter like" messaging (not provided by Twitter) will be added onto most web community sites. That doesn't kill Twitter the website of course. But the Twitter "experience" won't be unique to just Twitter in the very near future.
- Gregg H.
I'm still trying to figure out what the Twitter experience is.
- Rutger Blom
Rutger: Relating the Twitter experience to the FriendFeed experience I would describe Twitter as realtime statements without being able to meaningfully discern conversation out of those dissociated statements... is this a reply, a reply to what piece of information, was that a reply to something else... This is not a problem on FF, or at least not as big of a problem.
- Gregg H.
+102 for Bill Waterson references in picture Kevin or words Sinterclas
- Steve C
cute but what happened to festivus this year?
- Laura Norvig
Merry Christmas to the FriendFeed team. You guys rock! FriendFeed reacts quickly and you're adding wonderful features all the time (Thanks soooo much for the "edit" feature.)
- Mitchell Tsai
Happy Holidays FF crue -- you've made this an excellent and memorable year for many of us. Facebook couldn't have done it without you! :)
- Christopher Galtenberg
w00t you gave me the best online year in 15 years!!! ;p Thanks a lot, everyone, for what you've done here XD
- ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,
Sigh. Sometimes it is the little touches, like seasonal logos or easter eggs, that mark a site as a living project, and that you really miss when the developers have all moved on to something else.
- Michael R. Bernstein
http://www.ffollo.com/ - Автоматически фолловит всех, кто как-то коснулся тебя во FrF: зафрендил тебя, залайкал твои посты или пост, который залайкал ты. Штука мощная и опасная - за сутки из-за лайка одного из постов популярного иностранного юзера я получил больше 1000 "друзей", большинство из которых турки, 20% итальянцы и прочая еврошелупонь. Замаялся потом чистить. Самое удобное -...
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- massagin
ffscheduler - отложенные записи во Френдфид.
- 4shir
from fftogo
Until now, search engines have largely delivered the same results to everyone. Two different people could search for Barack Obama and get back the same set of results. In fact, the results have been so consistent that people have used them as a universal navigation tool. WordPress founder Matt Mullenweg has a business card that says to find him by searching for matt on Google. But the...
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- Adam Kazwell
Still alive? Sorry but this remains to be proved, a post every now and then or a cake are not enough. No announcement of any new feature since Google [edit:Facebook] bought out Friendfeed, if that is not an indication that Friendfeed is quietly [but surely] put aside for a slow death I don't know what is.
- lelapin
@lelapin: 1, Facebook, not Google. 2, no new features != slow death. First of all, community is independent of the evolution of the technology. There are tons of forums out there that haven't added new features in ages but are still highly active. 3, it could be argued that FriendFeed doesn't *need* new features: it's a very complete and functional platform, that does what it does well.
- Louis Simoneau
And, in response to the original post, Hellz Yeah!
- Louis Simoneau
@LouisSimoneau: 1 - thanks for the heads up 2 - cemeteries are extending in size and population still would you take them as example to back up your argument, as 'highly active'? 3 - could be indeed, I would not though since, no matter what sector you're in, no change, no new feature irremediably leads to obsolescence.
- lelapin
Oh it was a total blast, Jenna. <name deleted> showed off the new <service deleted> <version number deleted> and we all drank <deleted> and ate <deleted>. <name deleted>, <name deleted> and <name deleted> were all there! You missed out! It was epic.
- Louis Gray
I've had this happen to me. Here is an example of a client I thankfully fired (back in 2000 or so) before I did any work: http://www.lvweddings.com/ My proposed redesign ideas were completely rejected. Feel free to check out how the site has actually *devolved* over time since: http://web.archive.org/web...
- Michael R. Bernstein
I'm psyched b/c having finished part 1 of "CSS: The missing manual", I actually understood what <div> and <p> were!
- Mickey Schafer
@Michael Yeah that's usually what happens. It sucks more when you actually do design the site and it devolves over time.
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
...oh man, i have been down this road before.
- .LAG liked that
Haha! Don't let the pretty skin and dandy accessories fool ya... underneath lurks the cold silicon heart of a merciless mechanical monster. With laser eyes. :D
- Adrian
Left to right, as if you didn't know already: Dan Hsiao, Casey Muller, Ana Yang, Jim Norris, Tudor Bosman, Bret Taylor, Paul Buchheit (with Camilla), Sanjeev Singh, Kevin Fox.
- Tudor Bosman
That's why I love today's web : you can talk with the people that build the next web, and see those who build your current web. Congrats guys!
- Zackatoustra
FriendFeed Team, I love you !!!! Thanks to you all, I'm very happy everyday!!!
- Renchin(Reina)
So that was the TGIFF ("Thank Goodness It's FriendFeed") party? Perhaps slightly off-topic, but if Camiila hasn't been betrothed yet, have I got a grandson for her ;-))
- ianf ⌘
TGIFF was excellent. Great event and great people.Thanks for the invite and hospitality.
- AJ Kohn
Louis, thank you and thank you to the FriendFeed team for making a killer product and hosting a great open house!
- Brian Solis
(bump) Ana and Casey are now married. Here's a pic of them on the left, between Ross and Jim. Congratulations to Ana and Casey! (per http://friendfeed.com/jessica...)
- Louis Gray
علی حجوانی تو روحت، ای واسه چه موقعیه؟ :)))
- Mehran
:))))))))) مال بعد از عیده. اواخر فروردین فک کنم
- Aly
@blacklion, нет. -- у летуаля есть свидетельство на товарный знак "Лэтуаль", где слово написано на кириллице. У большинства брендов в России свидетельства на тов. знаки только на латинице. Подача заявки в роспатент на новый знак -- это около двух лет. Кто-то захотел легких денег на верхах :)
- bifurcafe
@bifurcafe Так первые часы там вроде любой домен 10 миллионов, или нет?
- gloomy deranged pervert
from IM
@blacklion, первые часы, после приоритеной реги. которая начинается с 25 ноября сего года и заканчивается 25 марта. потом да, уже все остальные, в рамках аукциона. и третий срок -- это остатки, где по стандартному тарифу, без аукционов.
- bifurcafe
У каждого домена есть служебный адрес регистрационного центра, например nic.ua, nic.ru. А у .рф что будет? ник.рф? ниц.рф? центр.рф? центер.рф? рег.рф? И когда эта фигня заработает?
- prool
Привезли Original of Laura. Не ожидал той формы, в которой она напечатана. В виде книги с толстыми (картонной толщины) страницами с карточками-факсимиле оригинала, при желании отделяемыми от книги.
@ilzoff это всё понятно, и действительно от полноценного романа она далека. что не мешает получать удовольствия от прочтения. и протесты, поднятые вокруг всего этого мне кажутся не лучшим примером для следования.
- Anton Volnuhin
давно уже... у меня полуторагодичный акк. Пару месяцев назад, привязывая новую кредитку, обратил внимание, что можно сменить тип аккаунта, что и было сделано
- Лучше не знать
@woof, деньги с пайпала таки можно выводить на карточку = на свой счет в российском банке, или нет?
- Ivan Dyachkoff
Вань, там же явно показано на линке выше - Россия по-прежнему в одном ряду с Кыргызстаном, Лаосом и Сомали, т.е. российским банкам доверия нет. Откровенно говоря, у меня тоже его нет, но это уже другая совсем история.
- A.T.
в чем тогда прикол Premier? Разница с Personal какая-то есть?
- Ivan Dyachkoff
@silpol Дело не в недоверии российским банкам, а в особенностях экономических отношений между Россией и западными странами, в первую очередь, кстати, связанных с русскими же законами и правилами получения денег из-за бугра, налогообложением и т.п. Детали нужно гуглить.
- Headache with pictures
@filkovska был бы рад поверить если бы не услышал обратное из уст человека работающего в paypal во время http://www.usenix.org/event... - правда РФ в этом смысле не одинока.
- A.T.
Chrome OS will help kill Silverlight and other non-open tech, preventing msft and others from recapturing the web. (though I expect that it will support Flash by necessity)
I hope it doesn't. After all we need good media delivery platforms.
- Swaroop
Including GNASH - the open source alternative - would solve that problem
- Bogdan Costea
yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it.
- Zio Bonino
Microsoft will port it. It's all about codecs & DRM. Ogg Theora isn't all that great.
- Rodfather
Chrome OS might be a compelling case for SVG/<canvas> + <audio> tag replacements for flash. Dunno what SVG's perf is like on WebKit tho.
- Matt Mastracci
@Swaroop eh eh, I've got flash disabled on all my systems :)
- Zio Bonino
@Benjamin I'd prefer HTML web apps over native apps anyday. But it'll take time for it to mature
- Swaroop
Rodfather, I don't think that will be an option for msft :). If Chrome is built the way I would do it, there is no installation per-se -- everything runs in the browser and the config in stored in the cloud (and cached locally). The computer is a pure appliance.
- Paul Buchheit
What about more standard codecs like h.264? That isn't open and is in hardware already.
- Rodfather
h.264 is established and must be in there, but it's not a platform like Silverlight is.
- Paul Buchheit
I know some of the guys behind silverlight. It is some great technology. Too bad it's from Microsoft and is closed.
- Joe Beda ()
from iPhone
A world with no Flash and Silverlight. I can't wait.
- Paul Grav
Yeah, it's too bad they didn't open-source it. This stuff with Mono is silly -- if you want to make a real standard you need to make the real implementation be open.
- Paul Buchheit
MS are about 10 years too late with Silverlight. And they'll most likely be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting HTML5.
- Paul Grav
Zio sez (hopefully humorously): "yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it" -- have you ever watched a single YouTube video in your life? Like seventeen gazillion other people across the wired world. yeah, you're right, nobody needs Flash. ha!
- .LAG liked that
Remember Dave Clark in 1992, "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code."
- Guy Vander Heyden
.LAG: most YouTube videos are playable without Flash now. My iPhone plays most of them and it doesn't have Flash. Certainly by the time the Google OS came out YouTube would be converted completely to non-Flash capability.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: The youtube flash application helps read the flv files on Youtube's servers and provides a UI (decoder too).
- Swaroop
Even Google admits they're not sure I'd bit for bit html5 video is less bandwitj consuming than flash. And flash isn't just media delivery, also interesting games and apps like tonepad, splicemusic.com's online sequencer, etc (I'm musically inclined, so most of my examples will be along that line) and please don't suggest we redo it all in java
- Ed F
from Nambu
Does this mean the next Silverlight release is codename Seppuku?
- Jay Cuthrell
Maybe we'll see commercials encoded in movies if everything is open.
- Rodfather
Flash is too established to kill off right now, so I'd be surprised if Chrome didn't include flash support. It will take many years to get rid of that thing. First they need to fix the standard browser to not be so broken (lack of video, multi-file upload, etc), then they need everyone to switch to the new html5 solutions.
- Paul Buchheit
Scoble ...that may be true, and YouTube plays on my Pre without Flash (yet)...but that doesn't mean that "nobody needs Flash." really? what would replace it?
- .LAG liked that
Is it just me or does Native Client (NaCl) remind you of the Microsoft Active X approach?
- Daniel Chow
But who prevents Google from taking over the net?
- Andreas
youtube videos play on iPhone/iPod Touch as they are higher res mp4 files NOT flv files. It was a big deal when Steve negotiated that deal with youtube.
- vijay
You have Moonlight to run Silverlight applications in Linux. Not perfect, but then an application made on Silverlight is "not perfect" by definition
- Marcos Marado
The point here is that Google has no motivation to include Silverlight on these machines, and installing software likely won't be an option (it's a web appliance), so it will be absent from a lot of netbooks, just as it is absent from iPhones. That cuts into market share, which is a bad thing for a platform that is trying to compete with more universal tech like Flash and HTML....
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- Paul Buchheit
@DanielChow: NaCl has very little overlap with ActiveX, apart from running native code. It runs in a provably safe way, and explicitly does *not* allow it to access arbitrary host APIs. But it can be quite useful when you need to run code that would be too slow in Javascript (even on v8): e.g., heavy encryption/decryption, possibly codecs, definitely game physics, and so forth.
- Joel Webber
There is a time and a place for Flash and Silverlight so I hope it will run it. There are simply some things you can do which aren't possible, or practical in html/css/javascript.
- Steve Temple
Paul: why wouldn't Chrome OS come with Moonlight? And if not, why wouldn't you be able to just install it? And third, why the hell would people want Moonlight for? I never installed it and not even once felt the need to!
- Marcos Marado
from fftogo
because of moonlight http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlig... the potential userbase of silverlight is greatly improved, agree that projects which don't consider compatibility are limiting their potential
- Mike Chelen
@mindboosternoori Ryanair site uses silverlight: http://www.ryanair.com/site... that's the only website I know that uses it - for this you would need moonlight :)
- Ihar Mahaniok
Flash is needed for the google os to be useful in education. Many education based websites are flash based.
- Willowdale
@Paul "Google is probably paying OEMs to ship with this OS, so instead of paying $x/machine to include windows XP, they will get paid $y/machine to include Chrome." - paying present tense, already? Isn't it enough for OEMs not to have to pay hefty licenses to Redmond, etc., while being able to ship with a free, stable OS+browser combo; they need to be paid to do that as well?
- ianf ⌘
I sure hope so. I think the wide array of JavaScript libraries have been killing Flash for years. Silverlight was never really a player. The only think keeping Flash afloat is video
- Scott Radcliff
I don't know what's under the hood of Silverlight (nobody knows), but Flash is basically a sprite engine controlled by Actionscript, which is basically an adapted version of Javascript anyway. It's nicely packaged though, and has an army of developers, so it won't go away that easily, at least not until there are Flash-to-Canvas/ HTML5 porting tools/ translators and the like.
- ianf ⌘
to follow that logic...photoshop is needed as well
- Chris Hofmann
somebody call me when http://playboyarchive.com is working in Chrome OS (it's currently implemented in Silverlight)
- Karim
If it gains any traction at all, MS will just make Silverlight version that will run on Google OS. Sure google could block it, but they haven't done so with the Chrome browser.
- Jeff Weber
Interesting. I doubt the Google OS will get that big anytime soon though.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
Silverlight doesn't have a chance now...I wonder what would Adobe Air do.
- Saad Kamal
not really, if google want to be open then they will need a plugin architecture for it and then MS could just port for it. I really don't see this troubling mainstream users any time soon.
- Darren Stuart
Though I agree with the view that MS monopoly may erode as alternative devices get adoption over PC/Notebook, and these devices will mostly run on open source OS, but it may take years to create a significant change in every day usage of normal users. In the end, OS choice is mostly done by manufacturers, and they would be happy to get paid by open source vendors for putting their OS on...
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- Kaan Bingol
People want media. Hulu, Netflix, Kindle, iTunes, etc. They need to address that or they are DOA.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, what makes you think it will lack media support?
- Paul Buchheit
I don't think it will lack licensed media support but what deals they are able to make will be crucial.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, i thought you were going to say that Netflix was using Silverlight. ;-)
- Karim
Yes, they are, what is their deal with MSFT? Can they do non Silverlight distribution?
- Hayes Haugen
i believe the Netflix non-Silverlight distribution is a format called "DVD" that works over the "Snail Mail" protocol. ;-) but clearly if Google is paying OEMs to install Chrome OS, they can pay Netflix to go back to Flash which Chrome OS will probably support "by necessity" ;-)
- Karim
How can Google make money from Chrome OS? Or does it want to make money from it except through advertisement? I still can not imagine that all software and service are free and sponsored by advertisements.
- Derek Wei
All Chrome OS questions are answered by today's Fake Steve Jobs ;)
- Hayes Haugen
Is there a need to make money? If more and more people eschew desktop offline applications in favor of online web based apps, it means more pageviews, more eyeballs, more advertising inventory, plus has the side effect of undermining a big competitor's cash cow.
- Ray Cromwell
That's the key, Google wants everything online. They figure the more people online, the stronger they become, and the more money they make. At least that what was said at the Chrome launch.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
I'm amused that the "backwards compatibility" argument against alternative operating systems has slowly turned into "does it support flash", and when you unpack that it really means "does it play YouTube". I suspect Google will make sure ChromeOS cna play YouTube and they don't need Flash to make sure of it.
- Nick Lothian
Is it possible that Microsoft will write Office for the Web using Volta instead of Silverlight? Could be a showcase announcement for their attack on GWT
- Ray Cromwell
I think Microsoft is going to focus less on the front-end of the web and more on the back-end, middle tier and database sides. Azure is a big deal that consumers aren't talking about because it's not flashy but will be pretty important to developers (and especially enterprise-level applications) when it's finally ready because everything becomes an interface to the cloud. Microsoft is...
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- Fa La La La Lindsay
Nosense, I want silverlight, flash, html and any other technology in my desktop & mobile phone. Silverlight? yes, there you can develop under Python, Ruby et al, instead of the outdated javascript.
- Sebastian Wain
It looks like with Native Client, you should be able to write your Chrome OS app in any language you feel like. So far, they have some examples in C/C++, but one of the things they ported is a Lua interpreter. If Adobe isn't going to invest heavily in fixing the show-stopping bugs on non-Windows versions of Flash, it's inevitably going to die, and there's really nothing either Google or Apple can do even if they wanted to support Flash better.
- Victor Ganata
...ActionScript3 is ECMASCript-compliant. I know nothing about standards bodies, and shii like that, but what if Adobe dropped ActionScript and said, "You can now use pure Javascript to build Flash applications..." It wouldn't be a big leap. I'm pretty sure that would shut-up all the Flash haters. And to the folks who say Flash is hanging around just because of video...well, video is...
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- .LAG liked that
Actionscript is just the glue for the more advanced what-iffy graphic functionality of Flash. They can not drop it for Javascript, because it contains additional graphic primitives that JS lacks. But it's not the JS-or-Actionscript that makes it a target for hate, it's other things. Nobody denies that it's pretty capable, but it is also badly written, eats up memory like no other, makes...
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- ianf ⌘
I honestly don't know how necessary Flash is. Apple seems to be doing fine without supporting it. But certainly Gnash and Swfdec should be implementable on Chrome OS. The fact is that without Adobe's full support on a given platform, Flash apps will always be second class citizens on alternate platforms, and so far, there's no indication that Adobe is interested in fully supporting any platform other than Windows.
- Victor Ganata
ianf ...you bring up great points about Flash's detriments, as does Victor, but until there's a better way to bring video to the Web, I can't see it disappearing. Adobe seems to keep improving the Flash VM, hopefully they'll address those CPU-hogging issues and make a more efficent runtime. Yeah, I hate hearing the fans kick-in when visiting a Flash-heavy site too. <sigh>
- .LAG liked that
that only covers video and audio... *sigh*
- Ed F
from IM
Ed, only??? thats one of the main reasons cited for the continued requirement of flash on popular sites like youtube
- Mike Chelen
I know, and it seems I'm the only one who mentions Flash's other uses... :-/
- Ed F
from IM
Ed, those other uses can be accomplished through pure Javascript, video was the last remaining stumbling block
- Mike Chelen
Still waiting on non-Flash recreations of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... Well aware of how someone mentioned higher up how you can combine javascript and svg to get nifty flash-like effects. I want apps like that though ^ Only real alternatives I've seen are Java-based ones, and those runs even slower than Flash.
- Ed F
Pardon me, but the OP is a ridiculous conclusion. For that to be the case, Chrome OS would have to kill Windows, OS X, etc altogether. Paul, I understand your viewpoint as being an ex-Google person, but that's just NOT going to happen. Right now the video specification from HTML5 has been dropped because of an impasse, meaning that we may be transitioning from 1 closed-source boss - Flash - to another - H264. Good luck.
- LANjackal
But why do these type of apps have to be written in Flash at all? You can easily do the same thing in C, C++, ObjC, Python, Ruby, etc., with the Native Client API that they're building for Chrome. http://code.google.com/p...
- Victor Ganata
write them yourself then. until then, I'll stick with desktop apps or Flash equivalents
- Ed F
from IM
I'm just saying, it's not like Flash is the end-all/be-all. As Apple well demonstrates, some people can live quite well without it.
- Victor Ganata
Victor ...i think the answer to the 'why do these have to be written in Flash at all' question is because Flash is installed on such a significant portion of Web browsers. But I recall that Adobe Flex had a competitor, Laszlo/OpenLaszlo, which compiled apps to SWF or to Javascript. Who's to say that Adobe doesn't have the same capability of making SWF apps into JS ones? On one hand, it...
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- .LAG liked that
Ed, such apps are possible with Javascript and HTML5 multimedia features, the question will be how difficult developers find it, and whether the performance is fast enough
- Mike Chelen
LANjackal, there is a question of degree in that Flash + H264 uses proprietary software and codec, while HTML5 + H264 requires only the codec. while OGV is no longer part of the spec, it can certainly still be used to have completely open video formats, and recent comparisons have shown it performs well http://people.xiph.org/~maikme...
- Mike Chelen
Silverlight's 3 is looking pretty impressive today but tend to agree
- Charlie Anzman
still haven't updated yet. Busy with something on Firefox
- LANjackal
from IM
What everybody seems to be missing about Flash is that it works because there is one implementation which is mostly backwards-compatible and the same across platforms. It beat Java because, among other reasons, Java just didn't work the same across JVMs and platforms. The problem with HTML5 is that it will have a different implementation for every browser, and that means your app/game...
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- Gabe
Yeah the video spec for HTML5 is currently a disaster
- LANjackal
from IM
Paul, don't you prefer brutal competition SL vs. Flash vs. standards bring to the table by definition? Or are you more into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - 2020 Google Union - type of ideology?
- Kari Honkanen
Kari, I don't understand your question. Competition is good, but with open-source we get that -- no need for flash or SL.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, no, we don't get the same level of competition with open-source only. As long as there's an opportunity for big gains (like in this case to bridge the gap before html 5 era...to satisfy demand), there will be innovations driven by that. I believe we all benefit from a free market economy that includes commercial, closed source, innovations. I am more scared of the possible future...
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- Kari Honkanen
I agree that the future is neither open nor closed, but a mixture of the 2. Been preaching that for a while now, but then again there are the fanatics on either side who can't see anything other than a homogenous future
- LANjackal
from IM
I wouldn't worry too much amount multimedia. By exposing WebGL, (and hopefully OpenCL), you can offload a lot of compute intensive stuff onto the GPU via GPGPU techniques, and NativeClient is there to take up the rest of the slack, but the for the vast majority of iPhone-like games, I'm willing to bet V8 Javascript on a modern processor is more than enough. That leaves licensing issues...
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- Ray Cromwell
Paul, so are you saying that Google will block both Flash and Silverlight from ChromeOS? That's a new take on 'open.'
- Cliff Gerrish
MSFT next smart move: get Chrome OS (it's BSD licensed), inject IE9 and Silverlight into it and go benchmark against Chrome :)
- Claudio Cicali ♋
@caludio: They've already done that, somewhat. Silverlight 4 Beta supports Chrome. However I'm pretty sure it's probably technically impractical to run another browser atop Chrome OS anyway
- LANjackal
from IM
Something feels contradictory about a system touted to 'kill' competitors being 'open'. Sounds almost predatory to me.
- Karoli
If the concept of open source didn't allow for competitive business plans then quite a few companies that depend on it wouldn't exist. The "happy smiley" image most FOSS zealots promote isn't reflective of reality. There will always be competition, even among the free
- LANjackal
from IM
I'm not opposed to non-open software, but for OS, browser, etc I prefer that it be open. Cliff, Google isn't going to "block" anything, but they can certainly choose what to include, and my guess is that they won't include SL. As Claudio points out, MSFT can make their own version of ChromeOS that includes SL, which is why open source software is nice (it can't be crippled too much or else someone will fork it).
- Paul Buchheit
I have heard somewhere that Fash uses it's own port where Silverlight works over the HTTP port. That's why Netflix works so well. To that, Flash costs more on a sever side because providers can charge more for that port traffic. Could it come down to who is cheaper? (I am fully prepared to be wrong).
- Johnny Worthington
Johnny, they both use HTTP -- there's no difference there.
- Paul Buchheit
Is Chrome OS BSD-licensed? I thought it was using a Linux kernel.
- Victor Ganata
@Paul - well, Flash can do P2P stuff over non-HTTP posts, but that is very new (Flash 10 I think). The cost isn't affected anyway.
- Nick Lothian
My understanding is that netbooks would have to be absurdly popular for Chrome OS to make a dent in the popularity of Flash or SL.
- Gabe
not rly, the defeat of Flash & SL depends on the rise of HTML5, which will b supported by multiple browsers. Unfortunately spec disagreements r holding that up. That's another advantage of closed systems : fewer cooks often makes the broth get done faster lol
- LANjackal
from IM
How is HTML 5 going to defeat Flash and SL? I haven't used it, but I don't see anything in the spec that looks like it could compare.
- Gabe
@Gabe - what do you think HTML5 is missing? It does video, drawing, local storage, "threading" via WebWorkers. The biggest hole I'm aware of is the lack of access to webcams & microphones. What have I missed?
- Nick Lothian
HTML 5's not "missing" much in terms of its ambition. What it's missing is a consensus among its contributors. Flash and SL have gone through several iterations while HTML 5's been sitting there
- LANjackal
from IM
Nick: When you say HTML 5 has "drawing", are you refering to the Canvas element? I would not consider an immediate-mode procedural raster drawing library to be much of a competitor to retained-mode declarative vector libraries like SVG or Silverlight. Programming with the Canvas tag is sort of the equivalent of programming in assembly language for bitmaps.
- Gabe
@Gabe: I think you've got it upside-down. A Canvas-style API is the fundamental basis on which you can build a retained mode structure like SVG, et al. If a platform includes a retained-mode library as a convenience, so be it. You can build SVG on Canvas, but not the other way around (hacks like IECanvas notwithstanding -- they have horrible performance characteristics and are a nasty abstraction inversion).
- Joel Webber
So, if Moonlight (Mono) runs on linux -- Will google make sure it doesn't work on Chrome OS?
- Cliff Gerrish
No they won't, because it Silverlight already runs on Chrome as of Beta 4
- LANjackal
from IM
Joel: I don't think you said anything contrary to what I said. I just don't understand why any programmer would want to waste time writing an app using a low-level library when I could use a high-level library that implements everything for me.
- Gabe
@Gabe - I agree, and people are implementing those libraries now. See http://raphaeljs.com/ for example. Also, don't underestimate the convenience factor. I don't own any Flash development tools, but my text editor works pretty well for Canvas+JS based stuff.
- Nick Lothian
Nick: Didn't the author of raphael have some massive rant about how bad the Canvas element is? And I don't have any Flash dev tools either, but I use a text editor for most of my Silverlight development. It is incredibly convenient to be able to type something like <DataGrid ItemsSource="{Binding tabledata}"/> into a text editor and not have to create the data grid myself.
- Gabe
Why is Flash a "necessity" for an OS? I enjoy what flash can do, but it is like putting pimped out leather Oldsmobile seats in a Ferrari. It would definitely be nice, but certainly not a necessity.
- Dan Douglass
Early post goof up. To your original point, I agree. I like how Google is approaching the internet space with web apps that can be run with out a bloated browser.
- Dan Douglass
Dan Douglass: Flash is necessary because so many web sites rely on it. How many people would want to get a netbook that couldn't play FaceBook games or watch YouTube videos? Of course Google is in the unique position of being able to make YouTube work on ChromeOS without Flash, but they probably can't do anything about Hulu, Vimeo, or any of the other video sites out there that require Flash.
- Gabe
на ленина пить кофе большой, но туда далеко и не удобно ехать. в центре кто знает пить кофе больше чем на буденовском?
- Антон
Если заказать несколько столов на Буденовском, то можно там посидеть.
- Никита Бегун
так-с... Если за выходные не пробухаю всю заначку, то в понедельник ждите! Пока не определились с местом?
- BiGxam
Антон, а там места достаточно? Нам нужно пару больших диванчиков каждый человек на 5... Думаю можно ориентироваться на 10-12 человек.
- YaDuMMeR
оф. топ: кому инвайт, пишите в личку, я чет не вдуплю в этот вейв никак (
- BiGxam
from email
BiGxam спасибо за инвайт, теперь я в Волне. =) Как там когото добавить вообще? не пойму, мож кто меня инвайтнет мой ящик zellin61@gmail.com
- Андрей Осокин
А в какое время предполагается встреча?
- Alex Smirnoff