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Jeremiah Owyang

The Future of the Social Web: In Five Eras - http://www.web-strategist.com/blog...

April 27 from Web Strategy by Jeremiah - Comment - Like - Share

Rajif Krobat, Baytech, Björn Klose and 113 other people liked this

Interesting stuff...thanks for sharing - Hugo Guzman

19 more comments

Great info! I agree fish where the fish are :) - Peter du Toit (S.Africa)

Agree on the whole. I always find these categories a little artificial: Really "Forrester-speak". :) I think the recommendations are the most interesting. I'd make a separate post out of that. - Meryn Stol

You say it yourself: "What’s interesting isn’t this vision for the future, but what it holds in store for brands, " . I'd like these recommendations to be fleshed out with concrete first steps to take. Doesn't have to be more than links to relevant resources. - Meryn Stol

Meryn The recommendations are fleshed out in the actual reports. Our clients (brands) have access to see them. - Jeremiah Owyang

Hmm ok... Then I'll need to get the details elsewhere I guess. :) - Meryn Stol

Interesting categorization of the development into eras. Any consideration to the impact of scale on the 5th era? Just as a recent example with Facebook, their format evolution was not well received by what is not an insignificant number of members, and yet the reality is - that change - negative impact not withstanding is not rolling back. - Patrick Boegel

There will be a give and take between communities and brands. The thing is, Facebook doesn't have a competitive alternative that users could go to. In my report, we suggest that active communities could define specs for products, and bid MULTIPLE companies to build it. - Jeremiah Owyang

I completely understand that Jeremiah, just wondering if the nature of scale impacted or perhaps better said impacts the thought process for very complex long term brand relationships, ie Health Insurance, Financial Services, a college/university choice, where consversation and user invovlement can be complicated. Very interested in the full report either way. Thx. - Patrick Boegel

good stuff Jeremiah, enjoyed and some good thought provokers there for the future - Richard Binhammer

Nice paper but really expensive for young people. $750 means $41 for page. - Alp

Great information, understanding the future's potential is more important than ever on the social web. - Maria Reyes-McDavis

Interesting, but very general and hard to apply. I see companies more as å provide of tools/stage for conversation, aka the gold rush mining vs selling tools - Anders Dahlberg

Alp, Many of Forrester's clients are large brands who have a subscription. We're still sharing a great deal on this blog, and have given the report to bloggers to cover, so there's value to be had there. - Jeremiah Owyang

Jeremiah (and the team), a great piece of work and, I imagine, a labour of both love and loathing at times! I have been very interested in this area as I have looked at the shift in skills to deliver social media activity changes from one of basic coding knowledge to much more human, interactive skills. - Paul Fabretti

Fantastic article! I found it SO intriguing that I've even printed it out! - J. D. Ebberly

"How Brands Should Prepare" is a great bit of information. Jeremiah, it would be nice (i'd be reading) if you expanded in future blog posts about the "How Brands Should Prepare". - frank barry

That's likely to be a research report I'm thinking about writing Frank - Jeremiah Owyang

Probably correct in assuming that most online social networks will neither spawn nor solidify to the point of being considered ‘affinity groups’ with the level of cohesion, unified budgetary authority or organized implementation capability of NGOs, churches, or employee aggregations. Even in the era of social commerce. I hope I’m wrong. - A Mitchell

Great post, understanding the future's potential is more important than ever on the social web. - Vlad Hrouda

Just found this... great stuff! - Gerd Leonhard

Emgenius

New iPhone app launches to connect marketers - Mobile Marketer - Media - http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms...

August 17 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs liked this

m'est avis que dans pas longtemps on va avoir des clones français... - Emgenius

Robert Scoble

Fwd: Facebook acquires FriendFeed. Interview with Paul Buchheit, cofounder of FriendFeed. - http://btre.blogtalkradio.com/74_2996... (via http://friendfeed.com/scoblei...)

August 10 from iPhone - Comment - Like - Share

Phillip Stewart, paniaguai, Bart LePoole and 175 other people liked this

Well that was fast, Robert. - Adam Reyher

68 more comments

Wow. I honestly did not see THAT coming.... - Carter Rabasa

Nice work Robert. - Alex Calic

ya talk about real time news, thanks - sean percival

listening - Chris Saad

This is beginning to resemble journalism. - Ian Tindale

im not sure its such a great thing facebook and friendfeed sitting in a tree. - Eran Even-Kesef

Good job Robert - Ruchit Garg

Definitely, I'm listening now. Wow! This is breaking news! - Manu Ullas

hopefully this turns out okay, don't want friendfeed to get ruined. great interview, that was fast reporting! - Dakota O'Neill

What are your thoughts Robert? - Amani

WD mate - Chris Saad

That was quick. Thanks robert. - Akshay Dodeja

Hoping this will lead to an improved/cleaner interface for Facebook...I prefer Friendfeed - Rick Bucich

so, so sad. I like(d) Friendfeed much more than facebook - Francisco Kemeny

home run for FF.. Facebook will be able to give developers a treasure trove of data one thing that Twitter is dominating on right now. Twitter has a huge developer community but isn't managing that. Here FB is poised to be huge - John Furrier

So classic that Robert has the first interview about this...Where's Louis? :) - Anthony Farrior

Wow! - Ideas At Random

I think FriendFeed can help Facebook more than the other way around. - Manu Ullas

"very cool...." - Carter Rabasa

How do they plan to mix the teenagers with the geeks? - Jordi Soler

Amani: I am excited! Facebook has 800 employees and 300 million users. This makes both companies much more important. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

here was a comment on SiliconANGLE blog .. very funny .. "Hey, since we've copied almost every innovation you've had, guess you might as well play on the company softball team!" - John Furrier

Nice strategic move - Interesting to see how this will integrate and looks in 12 months - Alex Vermeule (@alexve)

to be honnest I was predicting google offer, then facebook preceed google on this, they are doing well, now rarding FF this is great, the sucess is to know when to pass to something else, the future will make the abtle wave, facebook rude for all geek it is time to code. - abdellah

You rascal Robert, bet you had wind about FriendFeed and FaceBook merger before today? Yes? Have not used either SM apps. much UNTIL Twitter locked my account. May have been a fortunate mishap as it turns out. Getting to know the beauties of both apps. =) - SashaKane

Awesome. Thanks. - M. Kong

Should be so very interesting. - Adam

Robert wastes no time on the reporting. CNN needs reporters like this. - JonInteractive

Not sure I am so jazzed about it....but congratulations to the FF crew. - Kreg Steppe

Good job, Robert. Good questions. - Bryan Penczak

Honestly, I won't get used to following Robert Scoble in Facebook. Seems out of place to me. - Jordi Soler

Wow! I was not expecting that. - Devon Govett

Letter 'F' affinity and alliteration merger, classic playbook move. - James Watters

Did I hear someone laugh in the background when you asked about FF users being disappointed? - Paul Saarinen

Agreed Jordi - Rick Bucich

A good interview Robert. - Thomas Hawk

Thanks Robert! - shared and linked over on Phreadz : http://tech.phreadz.com/v... - kosso

Robert, mind if I transcribe this? (Unless someone else already has.) - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Congrats on getting this story Robert. I agree--this is great, realtime journalism! - Sunshine

No mention of twitter? - Ivan Kirigin

Hahahaha...all that time you invested over here on FF paid off today! LMAO - Francine Hardaway

Francine: just watch what happens now. :-) - Robert Scoble from iPhone

do you have a small amount of FriendFeed shares Robert? - Torsten Eckert

NOOOOOOO. Damnit! I am praying that Facebook doesn't wall up Friendfeed. I was starting to build a site around Friendfeed :( - beersage

beersage: as Facebook is trying to break their users into a more public world, I doubt that you really have anything to worry about there. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Starting to listen to this now. Hoping you are right, Rob. - beersage

I hope so to. But regardless, I think that it was in reality necessary for FriendFeed to sell to really put the technology in front of a sufficient number of eyeballs. Facebook is probably the best acquirer that FriendFeed could have. (I would have not felt the same had FF been acquired by Google) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

The thing with Friendfeed though is how I can share things outside of a 'wall.' I prominently feature the FF widget on my site. I'm just concerned of losing that capability as I was tinkering with delivering a new site w/ content primarily running through my Friendfeed account. I am to this day unable to do much outside of the wall. I am unable to subscribe to Fan Page updates in Google reader for instance. That is what concerns me about FB acquiring FF given my goals. - beersage

Robert sounded quite breathless in that interview. Thanks Robert. - Roberto Bonini

Great interview great Job!! - Kevin J Hatton

Wow! I'm in shock. I can't wait to hear this interview. - Micah Wittman from iPhone

This deal was about getting Paul and the team and nothing else - Stephen Pickering

@stephan, are you serious? FB is buying a concept, a technoloie, a structure, a content and a user list - abdellah

now how could a team that left google resist under a unique perception system, where the leader vision is upon any thing - abdellah

Unconvincing Paul Buchheit, the team is more exited of being part of bigger story - logical for them to move on - patrickdh

They want a way to turn their white pages into a yellow pages and the only guy on Earth who knows how to do it, is Paul - Stephen Pickering

It was only about the technology and the people. Most people are on also FB anyway. - James Myatt

My guess is that Paul got a tooooooooon of options and will soon be the No.2 guy at Facebook - Stephen Pickering

Glossing over of that "short term" question by the FF boys. It just seems more about the individuals at FF than it does the users of FF. "Their (Facebook) long term goals" Nice interview, Robert! - Melanie Reed

Well, it looks as if pass-through of FriendFeed Likes, Comments, etc. to Twitter is down. Will it be for good? Did Twitter do this in response to the acquisition? Or is it just a regular (though curiously timed) hiccup? - Alex Schleber

twitter dow!! - abdellah

Alex, my Facebook posts have been going through FriendFeed to Twitter today. :) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

How did you record the phone conversation with Paul Buchheit? I went to BlogTalkRadio.com but... it‘s not clear at all :-( - Florin Grozea

Florin, rough transcript here: http://friendfeed.com/brlewis... - Bruce Lewis

I have a few choice words. @#%&. That is all. - Zachary TG

To do this call I used BlogTalk Radio's Cinch: http://cinch.blogtalkradio.com/ - Robert Scoble

dugg: http://digg.com/tech_ne... - Gaith

Thanks for this, Scoble. - mp3WatchWorld

this is why your own personal website is always more important than friendfeed, Twitter and all the rest. that's never going anywhere - Terry O'Fee from BuddyFeed

Road Hacker

RT @SocialMedia411: Holy Sh*t! - Facebook Acquires FriendFeed (TechCrunch): http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...

August 10 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs liked this

Robert Scoble

Twitter is down. Oh, what will the SEO experts, the celebrities, the spammers, the bots, and the social media experts do?

August 6 from iPhone - Comment - Like - Share

Asha Tampa, Bruce Lerner, Laurentiu and 222 other people liked this

Come to FF! - Simon Wicks

238 more comments

Give Friendfeed a shot? - Rubin Sfadj

Hang out on FF - Roberto Bonini

Hopefully they don't come to FriendFeed :) - Robert J Taylor

they will spam friendfeed instead? - Denis

They are so freeeking out. - SolidSmack

I couldn't tweet about it, so I told my wife instead. - Patrick Lightbody

I tried retweeting that. *sigh* - Andy McIlwain

Big ups to the FriendFeed massive! - Josette Torres

Call them to join friendfeed, and make - Madhav Tripathi

Hopefully FF won't get killed by the Tweeters flocking over here. - phil baumann

ok.. here ya go..twitter being down has forced me here. Haven;t tried FF yet so... - cheapsuits

just like ya possibly twiddle their thumbs... - Baba

I suspect the bots will rejoice.... - walidmREALTOR

Let's see where these so-called "social media experts" go to fill the void of Twitter. - Christian

I can't open twitzap.com - ybs

Can FF servers manage such a massive movement? - Samuel Goëta

*twitter their thumbs - Bryan Penczak

since bots supply at least 25% of Twitter traffic, should we feel the worst for them right now? - Kevin Norman

write a post about twitter being down as a threat to humanity, may be?:) - Nikos Anagnostou

Twitter down... can't post on Facebook,,. so it's FriendFeed! - carrotmadman6

So your're not responsible for that ? Strange... :-) - Enikao

lay on the floor and spin in circles - SolidSmack

Maybe the SocMedExperts will go back to Plurk since Scoble likes Friendfeed. :) - Jay Gilmore

thank God, now we can get back to work - E.P. Scott

if they are the experts they claim to be then they should be here! - Mark V. Fusco

Facebook seems frakked too. - Gregg Le Blanc

I get tweet trough tweetdeck... - Giorgio

I need serious help with FF. For an idiot like me this isn't so intuitive really. Help section is nice but I need someone to hold my hand ..bleeech. Don't get me wrong I am sorry I was reluctant to try FF before - cheapsuits

I blame Scoble. It's always his fault :-) - Keith Barrett

but how am I going to tell the world I need a cup of tea???? nooooooo - Rachel Clarke

Giorgio - I'm seeing some activity through the Twitter API, too (that's what TweetDeck uses, I believe); not a lot, but some - Robert J Taylor

I thought it was just my connection. ;-) I'm also having problems with Facebook today. - Timothy Federwitz

yeah, it seems the web interface is down but the api is working.. - Giorgio

I think the social media experts are going to spend the next hour talking about Twitter being down - Keith Barrett

Maybe read a book for a change? - Yiorgos Adamopoulos

Scoble's followers where the glue keeping Twitter together! now that he's 'pulled the pin' and released them all, Twitter has fallen down and can't get up. - MikeAmundsen

Seems to me like some sort of an (DDoS) attack on Twitter and Facebook. - Jari Hakkarainen

I'm so lost this morning without my cup-o-Twitter - frank barry

You broke it Bob! All this follow/unfollow madness. - ZuDfunck

They'll comment on it, much like I just did. - Marlin Forbes

Man imagine if this had happened on #followfriday... - Rob Paller

Yiorgas: read a book for a change? I do that anyway, but only about 10/month. need more twitter time to balance it out - Rachel Clarke

Facebook is copying twitter too closely...even to going down at the same time - Robert Littlejohn

Does Twitter have what it takes to be a big player? We've been working with their API on a project and every time there is something out of whack. Anyone else have the same issues? - Chris Nadeau

twitter is really down, I think twitter itself should have a site that tweets when it's down :) - Ata İsmet Özçelik

They will use FF to inform their friend that twitter is down - Didier Girard

They'll use Identi.ca ;) - Nicholas James

No actually the blog: http://status.twitter.com/ ("We are determining the cause and will provide an update shortly.") - Patrick Mackaaij

Show up here I'm thinking. :-) - Dion Hinchcliffe

Huge exodus to FF! - akihito

We will start feeding friends and keeping up our identi.ca 's - JuneM

They're probably crying so loud right now that they can't do a thing ;-) - Caio Cesar

What's been the longest twitter outage on record thus far? - Dusty Edenfield

hmm at least they found a solution with a blog :) - Ata İsmet Özçelik

I don't understand why you maintain an account when you have such contempt for Twitter & those who use it. - Liz

they will cry in their soup - Bobby Griffith

holiday - Ronald

Well Robert, where will you go when they all come here? - Tokyo Dan from iPhone

it's back up. made ya look - Kevin Norman

Strangely, search.twitter.com is up. - Marlin Forbes

Tokyo: I already have a private group setup. Sort of like a bomb shelter in case the rats take over. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

i noticed that twitter is down... anyone know how facebook is ssOOO slow 2...???? - Sebastiaan van den Akker

Just noticed it... - k00pa

do not waste time and do their job :D - Roldano De Persio of FF

twitter outage and news of the PubSubHubbub feature in Google Reader (http://is.gd/24YvH) make FF look pretty good right now. - Dusty Edenfield

facebook too! i guess i'm going to have to do something like "get a life" which is abhorrent to me... ^_^ - Kayce Maisel

friendfeed is having some issues but for the most part is still up and going :) - (jeff)isageek

find another medium such as friendfeed ;). - rick

Roger, Mr. Scoble! - akihito

@Sebastian they connected somehow... ahhh scary :) - Dani Martínez

good. so not the only one with issues with FB.. wel atleast is FF is going strong.. - Sebastiaan van den Akker

what we all are going to do??? =) but if seriously i remember this video on youtube - trouble with twitter: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - obolonskyi

They will all sit in their chair and stare at their monitor! - Gabe Diaz

@Dani, who knows... the might merge or something... explain the strange twitter is pulling fb down 2.. - Sebastiaan van den Akker

Did Scoble bring Twitter and FB down as he unfollowed everyone ? winks -) - Del_

This is still up... even this FF tweet. http://search.twitter.com/search... - Johann Chiang

In the event that twitter goes down I tend to frequent FF more. - © b e e n s w a n k

This is very interesting that it is impacting more than one social network ... can't even speculate what the cause is yet. Not getting much work done today I'm afraid, going to be following these conversations.. - Joe Magennis

I haven't been on twitter for days. I guess I picked the wrong morning to jump back in. - Jeff Stannard

Robert: The most important question>> How many new sign-ups for FF today? - K.N. Ajit Narayan

...and who wins? FF great :) - Dani Martínez

Was just able to post to Facebook but took several tries. Wow. FF FTW! - Tom Guarriello

so!! - abdellah

The smart ones will go to FriendFeed ;) - Helene

The spammers should go to MySpace... - Dennis Bjørn Petersen

Tweeple will come to FriendFeed! - LauraLee Dooley

That's why I joined FF a while back. Then I found all the useful features- and the bonus is having Scoble here to show the way. - Brenda Young

No, the smart ones are ALREADY on FriendFeed :) - Susan Beebe

and? - abdellah

@obolonskyi nice. vid.. ROFL... never seen it before... - Sebastiaan van den Akker

GUILTY ! I have had a FF account for awhile just never used it-- - cheapsuits

What the celebrities like you do. Talk about it on Twitter. - Tad Chef

This actually made me laugh out loud, because I was thinking the same thing! - Dan

This kind of reminds me of a line from Office Space: "I must have put a decimal point in the wrong place or something. Shit. I always do that. I always mess up some mundane detail." - Jari Hakkarainen

haha lets get FF down also :D - Salim Sarımurat

Could this mean that CNBC was right??? Nooooooooooo! - Travis Koger

I was planning to unfollow a bunch of followers due to Twitter's follow limit rule kicking in at the ~#2000 user level. I have to wait with that then... ;) - Martin Lindeskog

FF FTW - Eran Even-Kesef

Is the Twitter bubble bursting? - Travis Tasset

Let's see how well Friendfeed handles this Twitter outage :) - René Silva

Re previous comment of mine, 'Nooooooo!' was for CNBC being right, not that twitter is dead. ;) - Travis Koger

life goes on - Eran Even-Kesef

Hey don't tell anyone about this FF thing, its our little secret - Jeff Wiant

Twitter better be back up by the time Rick Sanchez is on CNN this afternoon or he won't know what to talk about ;) - cjcubs

telnet 80 twitter.com ? - Gordon Joly

@gordon wont work - k00pa

FF was down for me for about 10 min just now. - Dusty Edenfield

Blogger's having some trouble as well - Crispin Heath

No address associated with nodename (twitter.com) - Gordon Joly

If friend feed ever gets as popular as twitter were will everyone go to to avoid the popular crowd? - JP Holecka - Jaypiddy

Panic? - Dean Clark

@scobleizer I'm seeing issues with twitter and facebook. Social website attack? - Michael Fierro

Panic? Aren't we all used to this already? :) - Sasha Kovaliov(.com)

if this is the North Koreans with a coordinated attack I WILL laugh - cheapsuits

@scobleizer I'm seeing issues with twitter and facebook. Social website attack? - Michael Fierro

Robert, please follow back 106,000 and everything will be ok))) joke =) - obolonskyi

I can not play 140mafia!!! This sucks sooooo bad :( - Sam Beckett

Twitter outage is causing issues with both facebook and friendfeed. I guess we know where everyone is going instead of twitter. - April Russo (app103)

facebook? no way :) - Sasha Kovaliov(.com)

Twitter being down is a a relief to me this morning! Now I can stay OFF it rather than fitting it into every 30 second change of task! n - Arleen Anderson

at this rate they will have to start sending out junk mail via the post office again... oh the humanity - Terry Bruce

Let's all chat on Friendfeed - johnpiercy from iPhone

Nothing seems to work, I think it will be the Friend Feed greatest traffic boost ever - Jacob Kobi Gamliel

guys, is it Ddos attack? or smth like that? as I understand twitter is hosting somewhere and this datacenter is down. am i right? - obolonskyi

FriendFeed traffic is rocking now... - Jacob Kobi Gamliel

social media "experts" might need to actually find other work to do. - Luis Sandoval

thanks God, Youtube is working - obolonskyi

More info needed. Where is there an alternate feed to real time news? - SenderOK

seems unlikely I'll do anything productive in the interim - WarLord

Friendfeed is an excellent choice :) - Hunt from BuddyFeed

http://theloopzilla.blogspot.com/2007... - Gordon Joly

Hopefully they will move to FF :) - Martynas

it could be ff provocation - obolonskyi

I feel like we are all stranded on a tropical Island together - Jeff Wiant

was afraid for a moment that out IT blocked all social networks or something horrible like that. Thank god FF came back up quickly. This might have gotten me to use FF more. I often neglect it. - Ryan Cummins

Wondered why tweetdeck wasn't loading anything. actually got some programming work done. lol - Justin Long

friendfeed rules! - Kevin Dolan

twits will move, but only until twitter is back online, then there will be a mass exodus. Remember during all of the 2007/2008 fail whales users still flocked back to it regardless. - Travis Koger

Twitter, Facebook, now Posterous... 4chan organize an attack or something? - Sam Harrelson from IM

Thank goodness FF is still working. :) - 3Cinteractive, L.L.C. from twhirl

http://status.twitter.com/post... - Martin Lindeskog

Friendfeed + Facebook :) - Rafa Lacerda

http://whentwitterisdown.com/ - Josette Torres

From status.twitter.com: "Site is down 1 hour ago. We are determining the cause and will provide an update shortly." - Martin Lindeskog

Having issues with Facebook as well as Twitter. Can sign into FB but unable to go to anyones profiles- process just hangs - outofmyarse

chinese attack? :) - Roldano De Persio of FF

Touché Robert, Touché - Jeff Woelker from twhirl

"We are defending against a denial-of-service attack, and will update status again shortly." from Twitter Status - Kurt Jarchow

North Koreans I tell ya.... - cheapsuits

took inordinate amount of time to get into ff today as well - A Zmaj

Hmmm DoS attack...someone wanting a ransom from Twitter? - Mike Gargano

Guess they'll have to either pick up the phone or do some work :) - Graham Bunting

Can someone with 94k followers really mock the the celebs and experts devoid of Twitter? - Augie Ray

Hey, no bogus follow messages in my inbox for a while! ;-) - Julie Barrett from twhirl

This is teaching us something about the framework of the current Internet traffic patterns. We're watching cascade scale problems from one major Internet program going down. - Melanie Reed

Facebook is giving up the ol', "Transport error (#1001) while retrieving data from endpoint `/ajax/inline_comments.php': A network error occurred. Check that you are connected to the internet" message now. - 3Cinteractive, L.L.C. from twhirl

http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com - Martin Lindeskog

I think this is bigger than Twitter and FB... I think it's some interweb routes or something. I had a VoIP call going with a party local to me and two across the country and I lost the two across the country, but maintained the local party. And others are commenting on other sites showing signs of outages. - Timothy Federwitz from Alert Thingy

Twitter is Down....panic..run.,,SOS! - Veetrag

Yeah, had all the characteristics of a DDoS attack. What do perpetrators of such attacks get from doing that, I've never understood. - Jari Hakkarainen

What will they do? Use FriendFeed! - Chuck Huckaby

It's official. Twitter's problem is a DoS attack per twitter/status. - Roger Jennings

http://status.twitter.com/ - giuny

shhhh they'll come here - andy brudtkuhl

The real bummer for me is, now I actually have to listen to the radio to get the word of the day! - Travis Owen

is twitter connected with FB or Friendfeed? I am having page errors with both, Ajax issues with FB intermittently , I am no tech geek so I have no clue whats up and come here to learn - lisa coultrup

Maybe Ev's interview on the BBC last night didn't go down well with the Iranians! - Andrew from iPod

Status Blog says "We are defending against a denial-of-service attack." Mmmm... http://status.twitter.com/post... - akihito

Friendfeed it is then. - Aren Grimshaw

Now, It's up! - Martin Sliacky

Posterous isn't working properly either, at least for me. - Steven Melfi

http://status.twitter.com/post... We are defending against a denial-of-service attack, and will update status again shortly. - Zalt Woo

What does DoS mean? - Kimberle Kelly

denial of service - Justin Long

I meant what does denial of service mean? (dumb blonde here sorry) - Kimberle Kelly

If it's true..or is it propaganda? - Alex Schleber

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Zalt Woo

It's down, again. - Martin Sliacky

Tracing route to twitter.com [168.143.162.100] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 172.16.1.1 2 25 ms 29 ms 28 ms lo1.br57.fra.de.hansenet.net [213.191.64.45] 3 24 ms 24 ms 23 ms ae1-252.prju01.fra.de.hansenet.net [62.109.64.13 7] 4 24 ms 23 ms 24 ms fra32-hansenet-3.fra.seabone.net [89.221.34.61] 5 120 ms 119 ms 195 ms ash1-new50-racc1.ash.seabone.net [195.22.206.2] 6 125 ms... more... - Zalt Woo

Thank you :o) - Kimberle Kelly

Ev coming onto the BBC last night and saying that they were asked by the US Goverment to keep Twitter up and running during the Iranian protests cannot have gone down well in Tehran! - Andrew from iPod

DoS on large portions of the internet. Is this 4Chan... Chinese... N. Korea... durkadurkastan... - Ryan Cummins

now having trouble getting to Friendfeed - Justin Long

look, few days ago Clinton back home with two imprisoned american journalists from North Korea and today Korea is attacking twitter? it is revenge))) - obolonskyi

maybe Robert's great unFollowing crashed the servers... no loss! Go FF - Jay Shapiro from BuddyFeed

some government is DDOS'ing the real-time internet to cover up something :-) http://leeprovoost.posterous.com/the-twi... - Lee Provoost

hmmm - abdellah

As I said, I predict a baby-boom in 9 months... wait and see! - Jordi Soler

SEO Experts can analyze their charts, celebrities and wannabe's can entertain us with video (maybe some cool Twitter Whore like stuff) , and social media experts can quickly become Fail Whale Experts. - Michele Lorito-Chase

@Lee Provost don't you thing you're going to be a little apocaliptic ? :-) - Filippo Ronco

Twitter downing has to be a lesson for all of us. if sometimes gmail or even google will be down. what we all are going to do in that situation??? - obolonskyi

@Filippo i've been suprised many times that reality is often more wacked up than the conspiracy theories of geeks :-p - Lee Provoost

I'm hoping the social media experts go away and do something useful. - Parvez Halim

@Lee this is true too :-) - Filippo Ronco

@Jordi LOL, considering that there are a vast amount of single male computer geeks out there in the twitter community, baby boom effect might be negligible :-D - Lee Provoost

what is bad here? here doesnt exist reply button =( - obolonskyi

The realtime updates of the comments is great. FF rulez. Would be better though to have the comment link not on top - Flynn (Michael A. Volz)

@Lee single male computer geeks - LOL)) - obolonskyi

Go back to MySpace? - Juliana

Maybe some will switch to FF if twitter is down for a while - Flynn (Michael A. Volz)

The twitter bots are rebelling - Charles

@Flynn, go check out this Greasemonkey script, solves it: http://userscripts.org/scripts... - Alex Schleber

Come here and moan about it! - Kami Huyse

Read post on 100k unfollow - I love how people are commenting and blaming Twitter being down on that! lol - Helene

@AlexSchleber: thanks, great :) - Flynn (Michael A. Volz)

AAANND.. it's back. At least for a moment I guess.. - Alex Schleber

AAANND it's GONE! ..Again. At least I managed to send out a quick FriendFeed SOS, as in: "Still think you shouldn't have all of your favorite tweeps in a "backup system" on FriendFeed? Join here: www.friendfeed.com/alexschleber " - Alex Schleber

Either collapse or back to use their phones in voice only mode, do some shopping, get eye to eye contact ... Blame god, and then. Give a serious try on FF ;p - Marco ILLESCAS from iPhone

They will still be able to Tweet to themselves - not sure if they will realize it is down until it comes back up. - Phil Harrison

I hope everyone will be ok...lol - April Mendez

Hey, can I hang out here on FF while my Twitter is down :) - Kevin Krewell

Welcome to FF Kevin! You can tweet from here too! - Arleen Anderson

Thanks Arleen. I hear all the kool kids hang out here now - like Scoble and you! - Kevin Krewell

I'm glad I joined FF yesterday, great timing! - CodeSamurai

I also micro-blog or create my own Twitter, but in more than 140 characters. - polou/indigo_bow

FF and Tumblr are working fine! :-) - Tim Moore

A good FF day- new familiar faces on this thread. - E-Advocate Network

What will the blackhat SEO experts, the SM spammers, and the social media experts do during a widespread outage? The answer is obvious: While sitting out the crisis they're fine-tuning their methodology. Seriously, your question offends me. There's a gazillion of SEO experts out there who do not abuse social media. - Sebastian

Sebastian there can't be a gazillion SEO experts! What's 10,000 keywords times 20?? (and that's being generous!) - Arleen Anderson

Would a social media expert consider it to be a crisis? If they rely so heavily on just one or two tools that it's enough to throw them into a tizzy, their expert status would seem to me to be ... questionable, at best. - Gord McLeod

Agreed. - Greg

Arleen, 10,000 keyword phrases times 20 is a tiny fraction of the search terms that are worth optimizing for. Think of the long tail. Also, consider lots of webmasters and even publishers / site owners / bloggers / Web developers ... SEO experts who are able to optimize their stuff quite successfully but don't sell or publish their expertise. Many of them, and even many SEO consultants, do make sensible use of social media, as plain users. - Sebastian

Gord, in a social media spammer's book 2 hours of outage, IOW 2 hours w/o sales from sneakily distributed links to questionable sales pitches, can sum up to way more than a good day's beer money. ;) However, "crisis" might be a term too strong for this potential loss. - Sebastian

+1 Sebastian - Bill Sodeman

I'm hung up on hop 12! - bev

I love FF! - John Giglio

come to Friend Feed? Not - Rob Cairns

You must be dying of laughter now Robert! - Arleen Anderson

Arleen: yes, reading this is fun. Sebastien SEO types are so easy to wind up. ;-) - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Gotta love it... @RobCairns says "come to Friend Feed? Not" and then his page shows ONE POST from Twitter in the past 18 hours! And that one talks about how Twitter seems to be slowing down again! (Sorry Rob, but that's just too good to let pass!) - Mark Jepsen

Robert, admit it, you broke Twitter by massively unfollowing people. The DDoS attack reports have just been a ruse to cover up the fact that you were the backbone of Twitter all this time. - Louis Trapani

Louis: that is true. I pissed the bots off. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Keep running into the wall a few times then find alternate outlets such as ff, linkedIn, etc... - Kirsten Mitchell from iPhone

Looks like the devious plan to move everyone to FF is working well. LOL :) - Geer

Ha! The whole Facebook Twitter slowdown may have been just people clicking on spam (not a DDoS botnet). How funny! Manual DDoS. See Bill Woodcock's theory at CNet, AP, SF Gate, and The Register http://ff.im/6gLmO - Mitchell Tsai

There you go again implying the only ones that use twitter is SEO experts, the celebrities, the spammers, the bots, and the social media experts - This is definitely SPIN. Perhaps you should join CNN also LOL - RetiredTeacherD

Ironic, given your status as a celebrity social media expert who constantly spams about bots... :-P - David Kettler

Now they'll have time to shower and do their laundry! - Ron Hagenhoff

Ron, oh man, I hope the infrastructure will survive this :) - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Bruno Pedro

Web Squared: When Web 2.0 Meets Internet of Things - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...

August 5 from tarpipe - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs liked this

"applying collective intelligence to sensor data will be a rich vein of opportunity in the coming years" - Bruno Pedro from tarpipe

Jesse Stay

I want to know where my followers (that actually read my Tweets and FF posts) are from. Come share your location here!:

July 29 - Comment - Like - Share

Brent - Long Live Rock, Daniel Rowley, Johnny and 41 other people liked this

I live in Salt Lake City Utah, and am currently visiting Franklin, MA (in between Boston and Providence) for the next few weeks. - Jesse Stay

191 more comments

Metz, Lorraine, France - Brome

Portland, dorset, UK. ;o) as Alex will attest to. :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

Dallas, TX - mark zero (Jason)

Monterrey, MX - Enrique Flores

Pickering, Ontario, Canada. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Laurie Desautels

I live in Lehi, Utah and work in Orem, Utah. I've lived and worked in a 4 letter word most my life. - Brad McCall

Red Deer, Alberta - Micah Wittman

Smithfield, NC - Damond Nollan

Toledo, OH. But you already knew that. ;) - Mark Pannell

Poznan, Poland, EU - Ireneusz Jankowski

Grimsby, in the good old rainy U.K. woohoo! - Kat Musselwhite

Espoo, Finland - Tapio Kulmala

West Palm Beach, Florida - KristenCarr

Baltimore, MD - Dennis O'Neil

I live in Goldsboro, North Carolina and was born in Queens, NY and lived in Brooklyn as well-sallycat 1208 aka sheila smith - sally cat

Scotland, Uk - Roberto Bonini

I totally thought I commented on this already - Calgary Alberta. (then I said ooooh! another Calgarian up there) - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

Edinburgh, Scotland (well I'm a French in exile!) - Arnaud Fischer

i am in nyc for now - Allen Stern

Tweeting from Costa Rica! :-) Regards!!! - José Trinidad

From Manchester, UK, but currently in Oxford, UK. - Andy Bold

London, UK - M F

Arlington/Alexandria, VA - S. Charles Balazs

I'm quickly realizing my audience is NOT Utah. :-) My previous Utah post net'd hardly any responses. - Jesse Stay

Silicon Valley, California. - DGentry

New York City - Jorge Escobar

West Virginia - Jimminy

Charlotte, NC - Mike Nencetti

Key West - Eric Logan

Northern NJ - Morton Fox

Sheffield, UK - Tony Ruscoe from fftogo

dublin, ireland - Huseyin Savas

Wiltshire, UK - James Slater

Lehi, UT - Skyler Call

Wiltshire, UK - James Slater

Lyons, CO - Steve

Boston, MA. Currently sitting outside a post office in Needham, though. - The Bohemian Penguin from fftogo

Jonesboro, AR - Tracy Farmer

Somerville, MA - Dan

Another from Lehi, Utah here. I'm moving to Pleasant Grove next month though. :) - Travis B. Hartwell

lost angeles california - sean percival

University of North Carolina @ Chapel Hill - Miss Elle

Lost Angeles, Sean? - DGentry

Whistler, British Columbia - Andrew Smith

Saarbruecken, Germany (http://chilp.it/?77dccb) - Zalt Woo

My train is stopping in Chelsea, MA, but I'm not getting off here. - Bruce Lewis

Los Angeles, CA - Jack DeWitt Smith

I love all those outside the US that are commenting! I lived 3 years in Indonesia and 2 years in Thailand growing up. - Jesse Stay

Toronto, formerly of Bangkok and Bangalore. - Kamath (नमः)

Los Angeles, CA. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Puerto Rico. - Manuel Mas

Jar, Norway :) - Hanna Wiszniewska

New Delhi, India - Faraz Mullick

San Francisco, CA, USA - anna sauce

Napier, New Zealand - Lee

Oslo, Norway.. in Scandinavia, and no Scandinavia is not a country :P - kozmic

Dardenne Prairie, MO - Randy David

Cambridge, ON, Canada, but I travel all over as an Over The Road truck driver. - Robert Couture

Salt Lake City, Utah - Zach Holmquist from BuddyFeed

Colorado Springs, CO. - Eric @ CS Techcast

Eagan, MN - Bill Kinney

The Black Mining Hills of Dakota - Gus

Mean streets of East London, urban ghetto. lol - Badger Manuf. (Barnaby)

Grew up in Louisville, KY. In college in downtown Chicago, going into my junior year. Flying to Brooklyn to hang out with my brother. - Daniel Zarick from iPhone

San Jose, CA - Kiran Patchigolla

Xaghra, Gozo - Malta - Stephen Moon from iPod

Okay, now that I know where you're from (keep sharing if you haven't!), I want to know what you all do!: http://friendfeed.com/jessest... - Jesse Stay

Petriolo - Italy - Carlo Nasuti

I live in the western suburbs of Chicago. - Kathy Fitch

Buenos Aires Argentina - Johni Fisher

A big hello from Istanbul ,Turkey - Haldun Uraz

Vilnius, Lithuania - Mindaugas Kucinas

Copenhagen Denmark - Kevin Nordmand

Buenos Aires, Argentina. - Alejandro

Chapel Hill, NC (but born in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, now Serbia) - Bora Zivkovic

Düsseldorf, Germany - Wulffy

San Francisco, CA - Justin Korn

I'm from Brooklyn, NY and I think that this is a great idea! i want to do this too. - Jason Pollock

Austin, Texas. - Patrick Jordan

Tel Aviv, Israel. Where did you live in Thailand? - Majento

San Francisco, CA - metalerik

Alexandria, VA - Kevin Whalen

I'll play along, Little Rock, AR - Grant Bierman

St. Augustine, FL - tomit from iPhone

Adelaide, Australia but only via DGentry - Peter Kelley

Majento, I lived all over. I spent a lot of time in various parts of Bangkok, as well as Buriram, Chiang Rai, Lampang, Khon Kaen, Khorat - Jesse Stay

i'm currently in the area of Philadelphia, PA - but i've also lived in various US States, Puerto Rico and Italy - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

istanbul, turkey - aybars badur

nisantasi, istanbul, turkey - Ozgur Uckan

Killeen, TX - Michelle Martinez

43551 - Matthew DeVries

We come from France! - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

San Diego, CA - Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)

The Outer limits of California. - Brent - Long Live Rock

adana, turkey. - Oğuz Serdar

atrium marriott hotel, nyc - Myrna

Chapel Hill, NC USA - Charles Alden from twhirl

checking in from San Francisco, CA - Criz

Beaumont, TX - Bryan Lee from iPhone

Seattle, WA - Rochelle

SF,CA - but a nawlins girl at heart - Liza

I switched back and forth between NJ and NY - Milton Ramirez

North Mexico - Bicentennial (Franc)

Fairfax, Virginia - BEX

Taipei Taiwan - MarkHirsch

Paris, France, EU - Liviu Barbat

Seattle Washington, home of hot breezy air this week. - Dan Morrill AKA Techwag

Encino, CA - Michael Hocter

Dubai/Sharjah, United Arab Emirates - Ahsan Ali aka. Slick

Chambersburg, PA (near Gettysburg) - Courtney Engle

Just saw the intro from Ben so I'm a new follower. (c: My wife and I are in Salt Lake, or more specifically Sugar House. Just a couple streets away from the park. - Tim Costantino

Orange County, CA (near disneyland) - Brett Kelly from iPhone

Chennai,India - Krishnamoorthy

dubai, uae - bob

San Francisco - .LAG liked that

Beaverton, OR - Alex Scoble

Bangalore, IN - Aaman (Clone of FF)

This one is from Kuna Idaho... Boise area! - Robert Freeze

Salt Lake City, Utah - Will King

Kent (South East England), UK. - Kol Tregaskes

Mumbai (Bombay) INDIA - Nitin Nanivadekar

Grenoble, France, Europe. - Zackatoustra

Don't you guys think that this information, altough not essential, should have its place in the bio? Think of geolocalized friendfeed, for instance. Quite not possible yet. - Zackatoustra

Chatsworth, CA - Mark Krynsky

Venice, CA - ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ from iPhone

Disneyland - Peter Warnock

Porto, Portugal - Carlos Duarte

San Diego, CA - Bonnie Foster

Istanbul, Turkey - Jacque from fftogo

Bali, Indonesia - Fajar Nurdiansyah

greetings from Rome, Italy - Flavio

Amsterdam, The Netherlands - Willem (@wim66) ☠

Philippines - that's where I'm at. - jan geronimo

Amman, Jordan - zsafwan 

ISTANBUL:) - meliskaratay

UK! - Simon Wicks

Adelaide, South Australia - Mo Kargas

Cluj-Napoca, Romania - Mihai Secasiu

Pune, India - Mahendra (SkepticGeek)

Cobh, Cork, Ireland and soon Mobile Alabama :) - Paul OFlaherty

New York city for work and Great Neck long island for home - JMaultasch

I am in Lenexa, KS which is a suburb in the Kansas City, MO metro area - (jeff)isageek

NC State in Raleigh, NC. - Aaron Hood

I'm in Menasha, Wisconsin - Tasha Saecker

Edmonton, Alberta - Wang Yip

England, UK - Somewhere in the middle :) - Roy Herrod

Champaign, Illinois, USA - a lonely outpost surrounded by thousands of square miles of corn & soybeans. - Pat Rice

Impressively international list! I am Atlanta, Ga - Chris Rogers from BuddyFeed

SLC, Utah - Chad

Adelaide, sunny South Australia - Howdy - Chris Loft

Mostly US, I'd say. - Zackatoustra from IM

top o' the mornin' Robert, from Carlow, Ireland - Ken Power

HI Jesse from Lakeland, Florida and it is 85degrees today - Stephen Brown

Yankton, SD - Ben Hanten

Newcastle Upon Tyne, which is in the North East of England. - Craig Deakin

Currently in Lancaster, OH. I'm from Coshocton. - Shane Tilton from BuddyFeed

Rural Iowa, fairly near Des Moines. I see cornfields and trees out my window. - Trent Hamm

Tampa, Florida! but you probably could have guessed that... - Sarah Perez

Turin, Italy - I thought that came through on the Geolocating tweets and brightkite - Nicholas Paul Gordon from iPhone

Tampa, Fl too! - Fox

Milan, Italy - amarantoblook

This is actually amazing. Not just US centric.... - Liza

Bulgaria - Dimitar Vesselinov

Roma, Italy - Roldano De Persio of FF

Delray Beach, Florida - Bob DeMarco

Ibrag, Malta - Ade

Boston - mikepk

Kansas City, Missouri - Tobin Truog

Seattle - Ben Reierson

Little Rock, AR - Keith - @tsudo

Jacksonville, FL - JA Castillo

Pasadena, Cali - Eric Berlin

Portsmouth, England. - Mark H

Austin, TX - bill giltner

Atlantic Beach, FL - shayne catrett

new paltz, ny - constance taft

central MA (not far from where Jesse is hanging out this month) - Stuart Miniman

Istanbul, Turkey - Bengü Boyacıgil

Rochester, NY (originally from Huntington Beach, CA) - Susan Beebe

Arlington, VA - Chris Abraham

Mountain View, CA - Stephen Mack

Chicago IL USA - Cyndi ~ @muchmorethanmom

Brandenburg, near Berlin, Germany - Solveigh Calderin

Small farm town in the central valley of California - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Slidell, LA across Lake Pontchartrain from New Orleans! - Tdubya

Antananarivo, Madagascar - Thierry R. Andriamirado

Thierry, wow - I think you are one of my most remote followers. - Jesse Stay

Chicago. IL - Johnny from BuddyFeed

Charleston, SC here - LeighaB

Wellington, New Zealand - Jamie Craig from Nambu

Newcastle upon Tyne, England. - Daniel Rowley

George Dearing to George's feed, Media News and Analysis

The New York Times Describes Online 'Membership' Plans - New York Times - [Gawker] "an annual cost of $150 and $50" - http://gawker.com/5322327...

July 25 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Mac Sharp, S. Charles Balazs, Brad Williamson and 2 other people liked this

What value will The New York Times provide that is not available elsewhere on the net? - Sean McBride

2 more comments

They'll tell you it's their journalism resources and editorial..i still think micro-transactions will be part of the mix..if I could kinda pay as I go -- say up to 20 articles here or there -- that might incent me to eventually bite the bullet and go with a 6 month or 12 month package. - George Dearing

They can claim that their journalism and editorial resources are superior to all other sites on the net, but informed people will just laugh. They are out-gunned by free sites and sources in every conceivable field and domain one would care to name. - Sean McBride

Example of the problem: who is the lead tech writer at The New York Times? David Pogue. I can think of 100 people right off the bat who have a better understanding of tech trends than Pogue, and I can read them for free. Why would anyone pay to read Pogue? Ditto for the mediocre op-ed page. - Sean McBride

Internet's Tad

Poll: When did you first discover the internet, and what were your first impressions?

June 29 from fftogo - Comment - Like - Share

Joshua, Bicentennial (Franc), Tsali, The Native of FF and 47 other people liked this

1999. blew my mind. - vijay

111 more comments

Oh, and if you discovered the internet before the WWW existed, what was your first impression of that? - Internet's Tad from fftogo

I first started playing on the internet back in 1991 or 1992. A buddy showed me telnet bbs's and I was off to the race. I became an internet stud back in the time when the net was like 95% men. I think all of my dates in college were with women I met on internet bbs's. I met Lindsay that way. When I first started hearing about web browsing back in 93 or 94 I thought it was pretty stupid. Who'd want to look at that? It took a year or so for me to really "get" it. - Internet's Tad from fftogo

1997 and :O - Moved to Facebook from fftogo

First time on the WWW and not a BBS? '91 or '92. Thought it was BORING. Only scientific papers. Never thought it would fly. BBS was much fuller, had a broader scope of items. We had were Prodigy customers from '87 - '91, IIRC. '93 or '94, I saw someone selling their stuff online. Told the record company I was at (worked in the licensing dept. then) that it would be awesome if they put... more... - Anika

i remember netscape and those aol discs i got in the mail. wanted to try the "free trial" - Alfredo

I remember playing a mud and when I realized that these guys couldn't understand me because they were playing in BRAZIL it totally blew my mind. I couldn't get over how amazing it was to be having conversations with people all over the world in real time. SideNote: room mate failed music appreciation the summer we found Muds. - Internet's Tad from fftogo

around 1997 I would guess. I swiped a 14.4 kbps modem out of our computer parts box and got all the settings off my dads computer and got it all set up. I think I was about 14 at the time. It was the cats pajamas. It was also a little disturbing once you got to like line 300 of that 400 line jpg and you found out you were actually looking at a shemale :*( - Geoff Schultz

wait wut? - Geoff Schultz

1994 but the school only had a 4800 baud modem so we were limited to BBS and usenet. Used it to read up on xfiles episodes before they were broadcast over here. I knew I'd be spending a lot of my adult life on it! - alphaxion

It was 1995. We had AOL and Compuserve. I knew that I was in love. - Shevonne

92 or 93. I remember trying to figured out how I'd find anything. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Those were some expensive shemales Dave! - Geoff Schultz

I don't really know. I was in Young Astronauts in the fifth grade when I started coding and they had a networked computer that talked to some different things. In the nineties I ran a hacker BBS with a friend and his brother. I guess I first ran into unbound net in the early to mid nineties. - Neal Jansons

1987. But it wasn't until a couple of years later that they had SLIP and then PPP so my first few years were all through a terminal connection. Although I was fascinated with Mosaic, I was an NNTP die-hard and didn't see the need of the web over it and Gopher. It wasn't until about 1997 or so that I finally got over my attachment to NNTP and embraced the web in all of its horror show glory. - Akiva Moskovitz

A friend in high school and I would modem-talk, so that was late 80s, we would call each other's computers. I'd say like '88. The first time I got excited was with the WWW, using Mosaic to download satellite infrared images of the world. I was working tech support in college, and I kept telling people how cool it was- it was my desktop image or something. - anna sauce

1995 and I couldn't understand what all the hype was about. - Kenton

My first impression was Groucho Marx. - Nine

2005. And I was like, OMG WTF AWESOME! - Yuvi

Oi - Geoff Schultz

lol Akiva you make me feel so young...I was writing Hello World when you first hit the net. - Neal Jansons from IM

I remember using it in 1993. I was 11 at the time. But I have vague memories of my father using the AOL BBS prior to that. I loved it when I started using it. Having your own computer and a modem is a great relief to an only child, let me tell you. - Soup

And ofcourse, I was 15 at that time. - Yuvi from IM

Neal, I started programming in 1982. Oof. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, you're old! o_O - Yuvi from IM

Yuvi, not really. I was really young when I got my first computer. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, I would have been 5. Started programming '87-'88 with BASIC, LOGO, and eventually C. - Neal Jansons from IM

80s and newsgroups, I thought that sci.energy.hydrogen was going to change the world. - Robert Hafer

You were programming 9 years before I was born. That's old! :P How old were you when you started? - Yuvi from IM

1976 or '77. A school friend's dad was an astronomer and we used his university account to get on the network. We used to change people's account passwords, download files, etc. We also played games that people had available to others on the network. Nothing truly malicious, just kid jokester stuff. It was a world I'd read about but hadn't yet seen. - Heather

1995/1996-ish....holy crap! there are nekkid ladies on that internet thang! yowzee!!!! - Morgan Haley

Hey, the first computer I programed had 8 switches on the front panel for entering bytes. young whippersnappers - Robert Hafer

Robert, you got on the internet with that? :D :P - Internet's Tad from fftogo

1991, when I went to college. I thought it was going to be an endless distraction. :) - Morton Fox

1995, awesome way to get and give information and interact with others around the world. - xero

1995, when I first went to college. At first I wasn't sure what to do with it. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

1992, university of florida - had to ftp/telnet host to host, then started building it when I got to spain for the USN. God that was fun - thanks for the happy memory jog tad. :-) - Dan Morrill AKA Techwag

I was in college, and we could dial into the school's network. I also had an AOL disc. I think my modem was like 9600 baud? Probably 1993-4? - Derrick

Tad, the most interactive I/O device for that was a Western Union teletype. When I got on a mainframe that supported VT100 terminals, that was something. - Robert Hafer

1987 - used "med-line" online BBS service @ $50 bucks an hour to conduct medical research for college (that is now a FREE service on the 'net). Also used Lexis-Nexis, CompuServe, and a variety of interesting "chat" services. Mostly research. I learned how to login to various University library ListSrv, gopher, and card catalogs online (using kermit for file tx) - from my green screen... more... - Susan Beebe

Late 80s/early 90s; BBS boards, *Prodigy, then eventually Netcom. - Pete Delucchi

1997. WOW! - Steven Perez

Late 1994 in college; remember one prof. very carefully explaining what a 'browser' would look like years later. Most students thought she was crazy. - Jennifer Dittrich

1989, gopher was the bomb. - Jason Huebel

Had to be sometime in the late 90's I was at my friend kennys house and he was trying to teach my how to post on a BBS... I was like "Man this sucks! I'm never gonna use this Interanets thing." - J. Abdul-Qahhar

1989. I finally had something to keep me company. - Michael McKean

Probably '94... I think that's when CIS turned on Usenet access. Before that, all I knew were BBSs, CIS, and The Well. My first web experience came via GNN... I was a little indifferent at first, but fell in love with if a few weeks later. - Roger Benningfield from BuddyFeed

Wait. There's an Internet? Why wasn't informed? - BEX

1998 or 1999 probably. I was very impressed at the time, although I only started to use it in earnest around early-mid 2000s when I got around to creating a now inaccessible random-pseudonymous e-mail account, discovered the joys of "free" DRM-infested music via a proprietary application for Mac OS 8 from LiquidAudio (RIP), and spent several hours browsing, fighting with streaming radio and trying to download stuff over a fairly expensive dial-up connection that maxed out at 33.something Kbps on a good day. - Tyson Key

Oh, don't forget Tripod (doubles as an ersatz file sharing system between myself and a friend via FTP), GeoCities (the time I dabbled with HTML) and ICQ... - Tyson Key

I 1st discovered the internet in 1995 (Worldnet, France). Impressed but continued to use & B SysOp of BBS and french RTC ;) - Thierry R. Andriamirado

1994. I ended up in a dorm that didn't have Ethernet, so we had to access the campus network through 14.4k modems. Mosaic was unusable at that speed, so we used Lynx. How did we find anything back then, since search engines didn't exist yet? - Victor Ganata

1994 or so, on the computers in the lab at CSUS. I didn't really get it for a couple years after that. - Bren, Photophobe

The internet? Well if you count the Usenet, then 1989 with several BBS's that had a connection to the newsgroups. Actual internet with email and everything. PCLink came out sometime in the early 90's. Turned into AOL and the rest is history. - CW™

Quite late for me... i was already 20, in the late 90's. And i think i was just Napster at the time :) - diego morelli

I discovered the Internet as it is today in about '97-98 I think, signed up to MSN. I thought it was OK, I think it took a few weeks for me to 'get it'. I used BBS for many years before this though. - Kol Tregaskes

97 9th grade. Had one classroom with it. Didn't like the prof. Left internet alone mostly until 2000 and had a T1 in dorm. - Amber, Random Time Lord

My dad got Prodigy in '88 or '89 and I remember finding the bulletin boards and thinking it was SO COOL. I also found an online game that took ages for each screen to load. But we had that briefly so I really remember getting it in '96 when we got AOL and I got all involved in chatting and even met up with a guy! This was when we all had to write down how long we'd been on because you... more... - Lis Miller

Around 95/96 on Uk dial-up and heading to UK University. But the real discovery was coming to the U.S in around 98/99 and suddenly realising pages could load in less than 30 minutes a time...the only bad thing was coming back to the UK and AOL dial-up but once that was gone, it was all plain sailing... - Absolute Radio

Around 1994-95. I was working in book publishing doing licensing and started reading about the WWW. I thought that there could be a lot of opportunity for book publishers to license their content websites. - Lisa Kagel

1995. Used it for info and thought of it as an elektronic encyklopedia that spared med the trip to the library. - Martin Liechti

1995 I was given a laptop at work to take home and sort out some stuff, I noticed it had a modem, plugged in and dialled up. I believe it was Compuserve I only remember seeing photos of Mars. I didn't stay too long because I did not have a clue about how much it was going to cost me. I bought my own PC the following year. - M F

in 1980 my summer job was working in a computer room for Mohawk Data Sciences. (yes I am old) Was active in BBS's in the early 90's- Actual internet as we know it today - was using Trumpet Winsock in 1995, with Netscape 2.0 - i think.... - Mike Nencetti

It was around 1992 in the University. First it was email, gopher, and later WWW, which we browsed using Mosaic. - Peter Sedik

1995: A friend an me sat in this internet cafe for hours and browsed the homepages of LucasArts and Sierra to find walkthroughs and announcements of new games. - Michael Netsch

1990 in the offices of the East-West Center in Honolulu, a friend showed me Usenet over a VT-100 connection. I'd already heard of the Net from Jeffrey Hallett, former president of the Naisbitt Institute, but this was my first chance to see it live. - Shel Holtz

2001. can't remember, sorry :( - Timo Heuer

For me it was 1994. I was a SAHM but always interested in new things. I'd heard the word "internet" and wasn't even sure what it was other than it connected computers but somehow I knew I wanted access to it and that it would be important. I had to do a lot of searching and asking around to find anyone who knew where to get service in my area. I went through over $500 in "credits" or hours online in my first 2 months. Been hooked ever since ;) - Merlene

in 1.994 i was studying architecture and i decided to change my life working with internet - cpons

1988. It was awfully boring back then, just ftp and email. - DGentry

I don't really remember my first impressions, as it was back in 1986-1987 and it wasn't that big a deal. I was working for the University of Michigan computer network as a student back at the time--helping out in the computer labs--when UofM connected it's Merit network up with NSFNET from MCI and an IBM network into an "internetworked" system. Later, I vaguely remember using Gopher, IRC, USENET, and remember reading a USENET post from some guy in Switzerland talking about some web of hyperlinked pages... - Ken Sheppardson

Hard to say. I used Promenade (now AOL) when I got my first PC in 1992. I didn't consider that the Internet though. It felt like a box with closed doors where you were able to explore sites and communicate with friends. In fact, I remember getting a {Netscape?) issued computer in '95 or so with all these websites prefixed by http:// and I threw out the magazine since I thought AOL was... more... - Tamar Weinberg

it was mid 1994. It was slow, boring and expensive... - Tahir Zaimoglu

1997. I lived at thepark.com. I thought it was awesome to be able to chat with people who didn't know me. - Bec Rowe @d0tski

circa 1995. High school. "WWWhere have you been all my life?" - Kamilah Gill

1993-1994 round about. I thought it was amazing but didn't yet see how it would really explode. - AJ Kohn

1994 - I couldn't believe I could send a letter (email) to my family without any postage. I was writing them a letter weekly and I realized that this would be much easier. - Travis Murdock

I guess that would be junior high, 1987. I was on the academic decathlon team and our advisor showed us how to research information from a local university's "online" papers. I remember thinking the modem was a hoot...one of those acoustic coupler jobs...but being online irritated me. I preferred going to a library in person. I didn't touch the internet again until 1992-ish. A friend... more... - tinypants - Hagitha of FF

88/89 for me - started thru AOL - still remember my old AOL email address - tombuckob2! They got hooked on the rec.windsurfing newsgroup - where I found my tribe. - Tom O'Brien

1992/93, right as Mosiac was coming into the picture, but I didn't have it on my PC so it was all text.I thught it was cool but a bit confusing and hard to navigate, but couldn't get enough of it! - Kelly W.

1994. Was kinda young so it didn't make a huge impression other than a new way to make pen pals and play games. - Katie: Witch Of The West

Circa 1984 with my Commodore 64 and an attached 300 baud modem. I still recall the text scrolling across my screen from my first connection to a BBS. I was impressed. - J.D. Deutschendorf

after bbs, I remember buying a book full of newsgroups.. didn't see the point at that time.. then we went to Aol :0 should have stuck with the newsgroups ;) - Tim Hoeck from AndFeed

1995, my freshman year in college. ESPN online, at any time I want? I'm sold! - Jason D Barr

1996. "Lynx is not a very good web browser." - Guan Yang

1999 - Frederick Bvalani from fftogo

around 1989, I think. I wasn't enough of a geek to truly appreciate it at the time, though I did recognize the potential it had to make the world a much smaller (as in more connected) place. - vicster

About 1992, when I got a Netcom shell account. Had been BBS'ing since '84, so it wasn't utterly foriegn. - Bob Morris (polizeros)

'91 when I first entered college. And yeah, MUDs took up way, waaaaaay too much of my time at one point. - ronin

MUD! I use to be all about it - Shevonne

Mine will be 1991 when I was expose to VAX and Sun's machine. I still remember the good old days of gopher and usenet. And email attachments using uuencode/uudecode. YEAH and MUD too which also took out much of my college time - Thomas Chai

Probably '92 or '93. Went online through AOL and a 2400 baud modem. Was too slow to be of much use, though, so I stuck with AOL and dialing up local BBSs. Once I upgraded my modem to a 14.4, though, I was able to browse the Web at reasonable speeds and had my mind blown by the sheer mass of information on totally obscure topics that was available online - info that was previously only available in micro-run niche zines. - Eric Tatro

Late 80's, gopher, usenet, WAIS--"Who's getting all this info together and who's paying them?"--early 90's, Mosaic--"Needs some color and movement. Someone's going to want to put an ad on that." - S. Charles Balazs

Getting my first out of network SMTP email from my wife who was in Nepal and fiddling around with AOL in the early 90s. Browsers were so clunky then. - Colin Campbell

1993 (I think). I just enjoyed mailing lists and USENET. - cecily

Oh, wait - BBSes count? Then my first foray was '92. - cecily

If BBSs count, my first foray was probably 1983. However I don't think BBSs would count: they were modem-connected islands, not using what is now the Internet. - DGentry

Yeah, unless the BBS had an Internet gateway. A local WildCat BBS had an NNTP connection around 1988 or so. Before then, they were either independent or linked by FIDOnet (and boy do I miss me some FIDOnet hacking). - Akiva Moskovitz

around 1995 through AOL disk. - Kim Landwehr

https://friendfeed.com/akiva... - Akiva Moskovitz

1994. first intro was irc via an eskimo north shell during lunch @ high school. - Jason Wyttenbach

it was the summer of 1997. America Online 3.0 to be exact. - MicahBear78

Dick and I saw Netscape for the first time in late 1994. We signed up with our first ISP, mo.net, in early 1995, and I could have pitched my Maritz client's first web site in spring 1995, but we went to a funeral in VA instead. Later that year I came up pregnant with our son and read Usenet alt.something-or-other.breastfeeding voraciously until Jojo was born - made all the difference... more... - MaryB, BrandingBroadOfFF

It was 1993, on Prodigy. - Jason Runyan

1993 on a local ISP...all text. loved it! - (jeff)isageek

1988, dialup to the local .edu, then browse their minerva Library system, emails to others outside my domain, telnetted out to various usenets and ircs and so on and so on, progressing and expanding tyhrough the years ever since. LEGEND OF THE RED DRAGON 4LIFE! - Tsali, The Native of FF

1991 -- couldn't get my parents to get me a $20/mo Netcom Shell account. It was still years later before I got an Internet connection! - Garry Tan

1990 - I was consulting for the old DEC and they had a funky connection to the internet but you could get to USENET via a proxy. I loved rec.arts.books and the tech news groups. I thought woaaa, there's a wide world out there. - Dan Perlman

1999 - Brand new USR 56K Sportster as a gift - flavio

2000 at the local library in the small country town I lived in. I didn't really know what to do with it, came across as a fast card file. Strangely my school had apples in 83 so was quite computer savvy. I didn't get my own computer till 2007 after backpacking for five years and using cyber cafes. - Yant

Around 1994 through IRC. Thought it was the greatest thing since swiss cheese. Immediately got sucked into chat. Took my first job designing websites soon after. - Leigh

1992. And it was awful, but fascinating at the same time. Awful because every command had to be spelled in the right way. No faults allowed. Fascinating because when I typed my own name (was it altavista in those days or was it all the connected university libraries together?) some information appeared! :-) - Ton Zijp

1993 - I was working for an insurance co and the marketing research person had a dial-up AOL account that she shared with several of us. I was hooked. - Paul Gibler

Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

Monster Quest: 1. Set up night vision cameras in a random forest/jungle 2. Camp out 3. Find nothing 4. See step 1

June 10 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs and Nathalie, Dreamer of FF liked this

LOL! - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

Derrick

I want YOU to support marriage equality!!

May 26 - Comment - Like - Share

B. Hatin, Marco Ho, KyNam Doan and 106 other people liked this

You know I do, dude! - Alex Scoble

49 more comments

Signed, Haggis - Haggis (Sean Loyless)

I do. - Parth Awasthi

Checks the "Yes" box - Tamara

#fistbump - MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS

I can't get a sticker... will this do? http://friendfeed.com/jworthi... - Johnny Worthington

Equal Rights for Equal People my man! - guruvan (Rob Nelson) from PeopleBrowsr

Well, if you put it that way! I can't say no to that cute face. - joey

I'm still rocking all of my NO ON PROP 8 gear...shirt, signs, buttons, stickers...I'm here for you, man. :) - tinypants - Hagitha of FF

I wanna sticker! - Lindsey is Fierce!

I do! - Penny

SO GAY. <3 <3 - B. Hatin

Lindsey, it's a different one, but: http://act.credoaction.com/sticker... - joey

Thanks joey! - Lindsey is Fierce!

You're welcome! - joey

:D - Rochelle

I DO! I DO! - Sarah

You can also purchase stickers and whatnots here: http://www.supportido.com/ (this is the site that has the sticker Derrick is sportin') I had one of the yard signs in my lawn for about a month before it was demolished. I live in such a tolerant fucking neighborhood...grrrr... - tinypants - Hagitha of FF

Here's the link for No on Prop 8 stuff. http://www.noonprop8store.com/eshop... - tinypants - Hagitha of FF

Thanks Amanda :) - Lindsey is Fierce!

np! Every penny counts to help fund getting an amendment on the ballot for this fall! :D Even if you can only afford to get the free one from credo action, it has the potential to inspire others to donate, purchase, or raise the flag and show their own support! :D - tinypants - Hagitha of FF

OK - but I still can't marry you -[ - Chris Loft

I'm downloading porn as I type this, I mean activist rally videos etc - sofarsoShawn

My name is Harvey Milk and I want to recruit you. - Jon Gosier

I'm in favor of marriage among all people...and while we're at it, do we have to limit marriage to two people? Would love to bring back multiple spouse options too. - Sally Robinson

got my support - (jeff)isageek

No problem with it - Bryan Penczak from Nambu

Wow, Derrick, this is all so sudden. *blushes and flutters eyelashes* - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

I got your back. (hmnn that doesn't sound too hetero does it?) :) - Mathew A. Koeneker

I'm by your side. - jcunwired

Count me in - Andy Bold

I 33rd the motion - mikepk

Yes definitely - M F

You got it. - Chieze Okoye

I think you know how I feel about this, Derrick. I am always ready to fight the good fight. - Neal Jansons

10-4 bro! - Brandon

I do - BeeLing

I just generally support people wanting to get together and having miserable lives together. What? - Mike Nayyar

I support it. - Paul from twhirl

Remind me who's this Gay Marriage? - sofarsoShawn

Jokes, that should be your Avatar, or rather all ours - sofarsoShawn

Even while I'm not gay, I fully support the wish of people to get together and being happy (or having a fight :) ). So of course I support your right to have equal marriage. Where I live it's already reality from 2001 on. Can't believe that this is still a problem in 2009. Good luck. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

I support marriage equality in that I would prefer that the law recognize no marriages whatsoever. In the past, I've been accused of tacitly supporting the homophobes by promoting such an unrealistic idea, but I stand by my conviction that getting law out of the entire business is the only morally correct thing to do. (I am no hypocrite BTW; I have never been married and have no plans to get married in the foreseeable future, and wouldn't even if I didn't identify as poly.) - Karl Knechtel

yep yep. - Thomas Hawk

Well, my preference would be to go the other way, and scrub the word marriage from all secular law, and make everyone use a robotic legaleaze term that I haven't decided on yet. The laws would simply allow for an ultimate 2-person coupling where tax, custody, property, and fiduciary rules are simplified. But since that ain't going to happen yeah, any adult should be able to name any other single adult to be their one top agent, coparent, tax shelter, and thief of half their stuff should it not work out. - Matthew DeVries

I do Derrick, it is a shame the discrimination. - orionstarr

Doesn't Cali have a higher-than-average population of retirees? If so, then all's ya gotta do is wait for all the old homophobes to die off. Shouldn't be long before there's an entire generation of enlightened pensioners - Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane

One comment I heard on CNN the other day... "If we let same sex marriages happen and if it's for love, then what is to stop people who have multiple lovers all getting married?" wow the ignorance. - orionstarr

I'm all for legalising polygamy, too; I don't see why dictating the number of people in a marriage is any less presumptuous than dictating the gender, race, or other attributes of the people involved. Surely it should be their choice, not ours? - Tristan Seligmann

Tristan: Agreed. As far as the government is concerned, a marriage should be nothing more than a legal partnership, and who people decide to partner with is up to them. - Roger Benningfield

DONE and DONE. - Anna Haro

Evan Williams

Just stopped by @tonyhawk's office. Watched him skate, talked Twitter, tried out his new video game (which is rad). What a treat!

May 27 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Gez, andy brudtkuhl and S. Charles Balazs liked this

I picture Tony Hawk's office to be a huge half-pipe, am I right? - Tech Introvert

Akiva Moskovitz

Eat a bag of dicks, California evangelists.

May 26 - Comment - Like - Share

deusdiabolus, Head Ov Metal, Chris Luckhardt and 84 other people liked this

I noticed several people liked this, but don't know what you mean. Could you clarify in the comments? - Jason Nunnelley

365 more comments

I'm guessing Prop 8 still stands? - Lindsey is Fierce!

Yep. - Akiva Moskovitz

Fuck - Lindsey is Fierce!

REALLY? - D. Eda Goze

Freakin' take a stand one way or the other! Either let everybody or nobody have same-sex marriages. WHAT DOES IT MATTER? It's just a legal contract in the end (from the government perspective). <sigh> - CAJ, somewhere else

this is extremely upsetting. F****!! - D. Eda Goze

OK, I guess it's what I thought - just a jab at California Christians that believe marriage should be man+woman over the court's decision to uphold Prop 8. You guys should get together and burn some crosses in their yards. - Jason Nunnelley

Labeling California "evangelists" is just wrong. Like it or not, the people voted not to support it. That is more than just a couple of "evangelists" - Spencer

Jason, California Christians are free to act on their beliefs in their own lives, but why do some of them feel so compelled to infringe others' rights and happiness? - LogEx

Sounds like they'd like to burn something other than crosses, Jason. - Craig Eddy

LOL Akiva that makes me feel better :) just a 'lil - sofarsoShawn

Spencer, you're right. I shouldn't narrow it down to just California. All evangelists and proselytizers can eat a bag of dicks. Better? - Akiva Moskovitz

I don't get it. When did the constitution change from 2004? http://www.redorbit.com/news... I thought there were anti-discrimination provisions.. wtf.. - Rodfather

I guess the polygamists don't stand a chance, either. - Craig Eddy

I think this issue is way more than Christians. I mean, even Obama is against gay marriage. - Spencer

Craig, no, which is nutty because polygamy isn't considered bad by the Torah. - Akiva Moskovitz

Spencer, Obama's a Christian. - Akiva Moskovitz

IMHO, the problem is that the evangelical community outspent and outmanuvered the anti-prop-8 folks and generally did their best to mislead the public. They did it because they knew if California voted down prop-8, they'd really lost and also because everybody was distracted by not having a republican in the white house. - Wirehead

I'm not really sure if there's a better word to describe the dogtwat section of Christianity that's nice and short and memorable, so evangelical would have to do, I guess. - Wirehead

I don't agree with you much Akiva but I'm with you all the way on this one. - Jeff Jones

Heh. Uh, thanks, Jeff. - Akiva Moskovitz

@LogicalExtremes Are Christians in California denying homosexuals the right to live as they see fit? Don't conflate Christians with a political ideology or "marriage" with unions. The issue some Christians take is the word itself. Call it something else, like civil union, and you lose 99% of the friction. But, [gay marriage] isn't simply about living happily and unmolested. The movement wants to force religious groups to "accept" them. It's a cultural conflict, by design. - Jason Nunnelley

I respectfully disagree, Jason. Calling the civil-recognized legal pairing marriage was a historical accident, but we're stuck with it. Were people centuries ago to have had perfect foresight, they would have called the whole thing a "civil union" and left "marriage" to the churches. But they didn't, so you've got "Marriage the civil thing" and "Marriage the religious thing". And... more... - Wirehead

Saying that you are OK with it being civil unions but not marriage is like saying that Obama is smart for a black guy. - Wirehead

@Wirehead So, if I don't want to wed someone in my church because my doctrine clearly states I can't do that, I'm a bigot. That's what you're saying. So, all Christians (including Obama himself) are bigots. Some churches won't perform weddings for people that are previously married to other people. Are they also bigots, or only bigots if they won't wed same-sex partners? - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, I fail to see how the state recognizing marriage has implications for your church. The procedure and requirements that I have to follow to be married in the Catholic Church exist for me as a person of faith, not for me as a citizen. The procedure and requirements that I have to follow to be legally married by my state are completely different. My Church doesn't have to marry non-Catholics; my state does. - joey

No, Jason, what I'm saying is that the Catholic church (or any other, for that matter) continues to reserve the right to not recognize a marriage for a wide variety of reasons. There are reasons why they will refuse to marry a man and a woman. We are talking about marriage in the eyes of the law, which already recognizes my marriage in the same terms as somebody who got married in Vegas by an Elvis impersonator. - Wirehead

Jason, I think you've fallen for the typical lies and misinformation from organizations like NOM and other fear-mongering propagandists. Those of us trying to secure our rights don't care a whit about what churches do or don't do. What we're looking for is the same rights and privileges that opposite-sex couples who are "married" get. It is all about the public sphere and nothing about... more... - S. Charles Balazs

Well-put, joey. - Akiva Moskovitz

And relying on religion for defending your thoughts doesn't work for me. I'm not religious and don't follow any doctrine other than my own, which is based on respect, kindness, and love. Telling me I'm going to hell based on where I'd like to place my genitals is weak and doesn't work if you don't believe in hell to begin with, so outside of that, what else do you have? - Derrick

@Derrick. Well, like anything, your belief in it has little bearing on whether it exists or not. Of course that cuts both ways. I think we've commented on this before that hell, also, may just be simply separation from God (we're assuming God exists here, I know, but bear with me). As such, we're, in essence, in hell right now. It really has nothing to do with your genitals (as... more... - Kevin Kuphal

Kevin, I hear where you're coming from and clearly you have a religious sensibility that I A) lack and B) am fine with. But this is also California. How presumptuous is it to think that everyone is a Christian and believes in Jesus? What a slap in the face to Buddhists, Jewish people, Muslims, etc. I don't doubt your commitment to God and I think that faith is a wonderful thing. I wish... more... - Derrick

*nods* Totally agree with your last there, Derrick. - Kevin Kuphal

It is unfortunate that emotions sometimes overwhelm us. This is a perfect example of bad law. For the the record I believe the word "marriage" should be removed from any federal, state and local law and the word "marriage" should have no legal standing. The logical part is that the population of California voted to amend the state constitution and the state Supreme Court has said that what the voters voted will stand. Isn't that how our republic is supposed to work? - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

No, Mark. Voters should not be able to directly create laws in a republic. That's what the legislative branch is for. - Alex Scoble

The sad part, MVB, is that the majority shouldn't be able to vote out minorities from anything. It isn't what this country was founded on or what it should stand for. - Kevin Kuphal

No, Mark. The constitution--at least, the federal one--was designed more to protect the rights of minorities (taken in the broad sense of "those who are in the minority" rather than the racial/ethnic sense) than to propagate democracy, of which the framers were suspicious at best. - Steve Lowe

On a more serious note, does anyone actually own such a bag. And, why? - S. Charles Balazs

Marriage is a purely religious institution and thus ought not be regulated by the state in any way. Let churches do whatever they want (and don't want) to do. However, it's going to take us many generations to evolve into that awareness. So in the meantime, since so many civil rights are conferred upon couples (by governmental and private organizations) who opt to marry/civil-une, they... more... - Anthony Citrano

@Alex Evidently in California it is possible. @Kevin I agree. This is a bad law to begin with. @Steve The federal constitution is by design discriminatory in that it provides for many decisions to be made by majority rule. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

@Akiva, I can tell you're upset, but your expletive made me laugh. That's a good one. :-) - Joey Gibson

@joeybean @wirehead @scbalazs I view the state's business as purely secular, and wish it were so because I don't consider the state my religion's friend. But, I'm trying to tell people how to get along. Want to pass same-sex unions, call it something besides marriage. If you can't handle that because you want religious people to call your relationship marriage, then it's no longer a... more... - Jason Nunnelley

@acitrano I happen to agree with you, that government shouldn't participate in marriage. But, I think government shouldn't tell me what to do in regards to all sorts of things, as our government works to take upon itself more and more of my personal decisions. But, what "rights" are conferred upon a marriage couple that a simple contract can't institute. Besides I oft wish I could avoid the marriage penalty I pay in federal taxes. Is that a privilege anyone else would want? - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, I still don't buy locking down a word. To Catholics, marriage is a sacrament. Should I say that Protestants can't call what they have a marriage or that atheists can't call what they have a marriage because they don't define the word the same way Catholics do? And what about people who don't speak English? Can my gay friends have what I can have as long as it has a different etymology? - joey

I like the way they do this in Netherlands (and other civilized places): Everyone has to go to the court system for a legally binding union that has all the rights included. If you want to get married, go head on to your church of choice, but the marriage has no legal basis. Solves a lot of problems. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

@joeybean Saying they have the "right" to call their union [marriage] is a position of faith. The argument that it can't be called marriage is also a position of faith. If the goal were purely a physical one, this wouldn't be the argument. It's a spiritual war, a social conflict. It's not good enough for Christians to leave same-sex couples unmolested. It's not good enough that they enjoy legal rights. Christians must use the word you dictate to describe the union, and embrace it. - Jason Nunnelley

Can someone also tell me why polygamists and same-sex marriages are lumped in with each other? Apples and oranges. I dare say same sex marriage has more to do with my parent's heterosexual marriage than those who practice polygamy. - Derrick

But Jason, I already have to accept that Mainline Protestants, Evangelical Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and heterosexual Atheists have the right to use that word...and they don't mean it the same way I do. Some of them, not even close. Do I have to embrace it? Not at all. What I have to do is acknowledge that I don't own a word that has taken on secular meaning. - joey

@joeybean Because Catholics didn't establish the country, its laws or our principals social structure. Protestants did. Catholics are the minority. This comes from English common law (not Catholic) and American tradition (not Catholic). Sorry, I'm dealing with reality and it's often harsh and immovable. If you enjoy arguing, continue to fight the public on the use of this word for unions between two people of the same sex. If you want success, just side step it. - Jason Nunnelley

And I love being ignored, too. Thanks for that. - Derrick

@geekandahalf [Derrick] it's because eroding the social definition has consequences. You can't make an argument for same sex marriage and argue against polygamy. That's duplicitous. The norms that govern one govern the other. - Jason Nunnelley

Derrick, it's because many people lump everything that's not a traditional marriage into one category. It's kind of how the world is divided into white people and not white people. - Akiva Moskovitz

Derrick, I think that polygamy is lumped in with gay marriage because of the people who think that legalizing gay marriage would inevitably lead to legalization of other types of marriage, including polygamous marriages. - Rochelle

Derrick, I think Akiva is right. Also, polygamy makes people jumpy and so lumping gay marriage with it creates a negative association. - joey

Trust me - they are not only dicks where this issue is concerned. - Rustic Thoughts

@joey - as if gay marriage doesn't make these same people jumpy? ;) - Anthony Citrano

OK, @Akiva is calling me a racist again because I don't see the world exactly the same way. You're a very open minded thoughtful person. (insert sarcasm since you may not get it) - Jason Nunnelley

Are you guys bigots against polygamists? - Jason Nunnelley

Sorry, Jason, that's a leap that I just don't get. What does me marrying another man, someone I love and want to spend the rest of my time with, affect anyone else? Honestly, what difference does it make? - Derrick

@geekandahalf [Derrick] is has the same effect as allowing polygamy: none on me personally. But, calling people who don't embrace the choices you make (for personal religious beliefs) a bunch of bigots and spewing hatred doesn't improve society. If you're on board for spreading hate for anyone that disagrees with you, then pick up your pitchfork and start killing believers. That's the... more... - Jason Nunnelley

@jason - I'm not. if three, four, five people want to marry, I don't care. It's simply not my business how they choose to live their lives or conduct their romantic / personal associations. Who am I to judge? While that's admittedly a tangent, it's in that same spirit that I strongly support Derrick's point. If two consenting adults want to get married, who the hell am I to judge or deny them? - Anthony Citrano

As far as I know, there's no widespread movement to stop same sex couples from living together or living the life they desire. The only conflict is over a word. This is a decision by some (several here) to pick a fight with believers because you hate their beliefs and them as people. It's not about peace, getting along, or living your life unmolested. There are obvious compromises to get around these issues. I really think this is more about anger because people don't embrace your beliefs. - Jason Nunnelley

I never called anyone a bigot, Jason. I don't hate religious folk, or evangelicals, or anyone of the sort. And all I want, all I've ever talked about, all I've ever said (go back through my thread if you don't believe me), is the same rights and freedom as anyone who's apparently heterosexual. Ask anyone, I'm a lover, not a fighter...even with those who have damned me to hell. - Derrick

Jason, I used Catholicism as an example because they are very particular and rigid about a definition of marriage, but do you really think the Protestant view of marriage developed independently of the institution they broke away from? Or should I then not be able to use the word 'marriage' since I'm not Protestant? It works all ways. And if your argument is going to turn into... more... - joey

@geekandahalf [Derrick] Sorry, in context I'm talking about @Akiva who continually spews quite a bit of anger in the direction of believers and anyone else that doesn't agree with him. I didn't direct that part toward you. - Jason Nunnelley

@joeybean My state is already quite out of step with my views. I didn't establish the rules, populism, democracy, etc. I've not disclosed how I define marriage but how most people do. And, if you want a democratic state on your side you'll have to get along with the majority, or kill them. I'd rather agree to disagree and sidestep the matter. But, that's me. I'm not in this fight. I'm just sharing a method that will lead you to victory. - Jason Nunnelley

BTW, I don't have a problem with polygamy (someone else's definition of marriage doesn't change mine), but it would be more complex in terms of contract law, custody, and other things that the state would have to budget for. - joey

I think the people that created this legislation are in for a world of woe. Equal rights and love for all. - ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift

I love him. He loves me. We want to get married. We can't. FAIL. - Derrick

@geekandahalf [Derrick] Can you explain to me how a group of people accepting your union as marriage, calling it that, endorsing it, etc. changes your relationship? This is the part I don't understand. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, imagine someone legally taking away your marriage, calling it that, endorsing it, etc. How does that change your relationship. Hopefully that helps you understand. - Derrick

Jason, your question was already directly answered a few zillion posts ago in this very thread: "I respectfully disagree, Jason. Calling the civil-recognized legal pairing marriage was a historical accident, but we're stuck with it. Were people centuries ago to have had perfect foresight, they would have called the whole thing a "civil union" and left "marriage" to the churches. But... more... - Daniel J. Pritchett

And I'd rather educate and lobby and fight and hope that opinion changes or that the majourity does. I have no desire to inflict harm on people who have a different belief system than I do, but I do have a desire to make sure that belief system doesn't relegate others to life as second-class citizens. And I certainly don't want the state coming for my (hypothetical) marriage next... more... - joey

tl;dr version: Withholding the M word from certain unions puts the onus on them to slowly earn equal rights by overturning or rewriting one law at a time because so many existing laws specify "marriage". Allowing marriage circumvents all of those decades of additional legal hassle at the expense of what appears to be some bruised egos on the fundamentalist side. - Daniel J. Pritchett

@joeybean My only reason for using polygamy as a parallel is that you can't make a valid argument against it without using religious or social norms in an argument. We actually put people in prison for practicing a lifestyle that nobody can reasonable deny them. It's adults practicing a lifestyle they choose. It is parallel because it's people practicing a lifestyle they believe in when... more... - Jason Nunnelley

@Jason - The polygamy argument conveniently safeguards marriage in its current form. Why shouldn't the status quo have to justify itself? To go further in the opposite direction - what right does *anyone* have to get married? - Daniel J. Pritchett

@dpritchett That's a valid argument. But, I don't know what these rights are. What "right" do I have by calling my marriage "marriage?" We have mutual obligations and encumbrances because we are married. But, I don't see the big advantage. We pay more tax, suffer more hassles if we go separate ways. - Jason Nunnelley

Civil unions aren't currently afforded equal status with marriages. By insisting that non-hetero couples settle for civil-not-marriage-unions society implicitly condones a gap in the rights and status afforded to one class over another. Even if everyone accepts the "fine, but don't call it marriage" argument there is still a lot of ground to cover to afford equal protections to all unions. - Daniel J. Pritchett

1UP Daniel re: civil unions. Suggest a civil union to a heterosexual couple with those restrictions and they'd reject it too. - Derrick

gonna track down the video Richard Bluestein did after his partner died. Gets the point across as to why marraige in the eyes of the law (not whatever buddy you call god) should be for EVERYONE that wants it. If you aren't moved by it you have no empathy for your fellow human. - alphaxion

Separate but equal is impossible if only due to the administrative overhead of maintaining two slightly different copies of every law and form and register. Simple IT problem, eh? - Daniel J. Pritchett

@dpritchett @Derrick I'd take a nonyabusiness relationship w/ my government. Why do you want government so burried up in your life anyway? Nobody can tell me what these wonderful advantages are that married people enjoy under the law. Pay more tax, more encumbrances in the event of a split. Gene Simmons got it right when he said marriage is a bad deal. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, I agree that we don't have the right to restrict. Where I can see the state having issues with polygamy from a practical perspective (not social norms) is with the complexity of contracts...who can sign in what situations and with what documentation, who can make medical decisions, what happens to children who have grown up with half-siblings, etc. in the event of divorce? I... more... - joey

Jason, I'd like the option. Currently I have none. - Derrick

@Derrick, obviously I just don't see the advantage at all. I keep asking people to explain it to me, how it matters, what I'm enjoying that others can't. But, in regards to the state I just don't get it. It's an easy problem to overcome. But, both sides aren't willing to budge. - Jason Nunnelley

got it.. http://www.youtube.com/watch... it's a very frank and to the point video. Would you like your love for your partner to be described in that way? - alphaxion

just don't give up guys - water cuts even stones - A.T.

Never, A.T. - Derrick

Hetero example of why you need a legal marriage: a friend of mine married very young. They struggled to get through college together and would have been much better off single as far as housing etc. Soon after they graduated he was stricken with a fatal illness. She was his legal wife and could be there with him, sign documents, make medical decisions and eventually bury him. Had they not been married, just "living together," she would have had no legal rights at all. - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed

1UP m9m - Derrick

@m9m That's not a valid example of how marriage is better than civil agreements. If he had given those powers to his wife she would have had them w/out a marriage certificate. I have the very same rights granted me through a legal document. - Jason Nunnelley

It's a good example in that everyone knows what legal marriage means for that situation, whereas personal contracts can be more ambiguous. I won't have to present my marriage certificate should something happen to my fiance (G-d forbid), I will just have to say 'I'm his wife.' - joey

There are some rights that can only be gained by marriage, not by any other contract. And here in Virginia, the ill-informed anti-marriage-equality crowd OK'd a law that restricts many such agreements between "non-related" people. The list of marriage rights is pretty commonly available, you can start with Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - S. Charles Balazs

Jason: I said "legal" marriage as in civil marriage. In many cases only immediate family counts - spouses and blood relatives. What happens in an emergency when no power-of-attorney forms have been issued? Just recently my uncle was in an accident, unable to name a representative. I could not even get the name of the hospital he was transferred to, could not find out his condition, and had to go through all kinds of legal hoopla to show I was his only relative. Imagine if it happened to your life partner. - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed

It's not just about a word, and it's not at all about religion. Jason, you may find it unfortunate that the state is involved in institutionalizing religion, but, unless the state gets completely out of it--essentially stripping everyone of these rights (where you wouldn't be able to visit your wife in the hospital because you're "not family")--then we need to apply the constitutional and judicial principles that we do in these issues. - S. Charles Balazs

One last point that I'm loath to bring up but feel compelled. We're hearing a lot of statements about marriage equality that eerily repeat the same arguments against interracial marriage. Thankfully these were overturned in Loving v Virginia. We will likely have to have our day in Supreme Court as well. Patience and perseverance will yield justice and hopefully enlightenment. - S. Charles Balazs

Equating race with sexuality is ludicrous. It's not the same thing at all. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, why not? - Rochelle

No, equating sexuality with sexual orientation is ludicrous. Equating two things that are fixed by genetics (race and sexual orientation) is not ludicrous, it's perfectly valid and makes complete sense...unless you are a bigot. - Alex Scoble

@itblogger OK, you're a bigot :) - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, can I ask you a question? - Johnny Worthington

@rochelles I don't think I can convince you if you really believe it's fair to compare the "right" to be married to anyone you choose and it be recognized and called marriage by all to freedom from racially based slavery, segregation, et al. It's intentionally inflammatory and an immature comparison. You can't honestly compare what black people in America have suffered with what same sex couples suffer. It's just not the same thing at all. - Jason Nunnelley

So you are saying that homosexual people have not had to deal with the same sorts of oppression as those of non-white races? They've never gotten beaten up for their orientation, nor killed, nor denied access to services that others take for granted? And don't call me a bigot when the shoe is on your foot. - Alex Scoble

@Johnny Worthington You can ask whatever you like. But, this loose and mentally slothful accusation that anyone that doesn't line up with cosmopolitan views on marriage are all bigots is not winning anyone. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, why did I marry my partner? - Johnny Worthington

Wow. Just wow. - Rochelle

@itblogger You are a bigot. Dictionary.com has a clear definition of the word, and your statement reveals you're a bigot. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse... - Jason Nunnelley

People who claim to be "open minded," and thoughtful people who spew hate and bigotry are behaving intellectually dishonest. [Most people in this conversation aren't doing that.] They try to make their points without dehumanizing those that disagree with them. But, some people just spout hate. It's cool, apparently, to spout hate so long as it's against people that aren't on the cool... more... - Jason Nunnelley

@FFundercat I don't know. I'm not sure what you're reasons are. Some people marry for convenience, some because they think the title means something or adds value to their relationship. I don't know, and I don't rely on the state to determine the value of my relationships. I appreciate your engagement, but this conversation (as a group) started as a cheering camp for anyone that agrees... more... - Jason Nunnelley

Yeah, how dare they agree with me. The nerve of some people. - Akiva Moskovitz

@Akiva I've no problem with that. But, I've got nothing of value to add. I disagree with your hateful position and think spewing hate toward believers is counterproductive. But, do what you wish. - Jason Nunnelley

Well, I'm quite comfortable saying that people who want to legally forbid homosexuals from having equal rights are bigots. People who don't care if some people have a religious problem with homosexuals having equal rights (because the issue is a secular, state one, not a religious one) are not necessarily bigots. (They might be bigots about something, but ignoring religious anxiety when it's a secular issue is not bigotry.) - josh neff, Fun Dip of FF

Sorry, Jason, but you are the person who made the claim that sexual orientation (actually you used a completely BS term for it) isn't the same as race or religion and shouldn't be protected as such...as such, the onus is on YOU to back up your claim. Not on us. - Alex Scoble

I'm not spewing hate, Jason, and you're misusing the term. I disagree (and obviously rather strongly) with evangelism and proselytization. I'm not saying I hate evangelists. I'm not even suggesting that evangelists are second-classed citizens deserving of fewer rights than other citizens. In fact, if anyone's doing that around here, it's them. So, if you want to accuse someone of 'hate', I think you're talking to the wrong crowd. - Akiva Moskovitz

Jason, we are talking about denying citizens legal rights that other citizens have, purely based on religious motivations. That to me is a clear violation of the first amendment. If the laws were as they should be, civil union would be the legal contract, and marriage could be whatever people wanted it to mean in the context of their own beliefs. Unfortunately, that is not the structure... more... - LogEx

The reason I ask is that according to the current definition, I only married my wife because she is a woman. That is wrong. I am in love with the person, not the sexual organs. I love my wife so much and could not even entertain the idea of not being able to marry her because of the beliefs of another. I have very close friends who share the same love for each other, but are denied the... more... - Johnny Worthington

@Starbuck The camp position is that all Christians are morons, evil, and should be eradicated. You can easily side step them by simply not using language that's inflammatory. For some reason, that's not an option. @itblogger race and sexual orientation simply AREN'T the same thing, period. Recognizing that doesn't make me a racist. One is behavior, one is race. Calling anyone that... more... - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, are you calling me camp? Dude, just because I support equal rights for queers doesn't make me camp! - josh neff, Fun Dip of FF

Why can't we use the same philosophy of Jesus (for the Christian groups) - Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. - Janet

No, you haven't made your point, you've only proven mine. Thanks for playing though. - Alex Scoble

I'll add, or reiterate, this is not about orientation. It's about choices and behavior, perhaps contract law. There's no law, no group, no movement afoot to stop same-sex couples from living a lifestyle of their choosing. The issue is over a word, and as long as you battle the people that simply have an issue with that syntax, you're wasting energies that could be better spent somewhere else. - Jason Nunnelley

Well, who owns the word? - Johnny Worthington

Jason, hate to break it to you, but you don't get to decide what's important to other people. - Akiva Moskovitz

Basically, my attitude about this is like my dad's about the Civil Rights Movement (which he was very active in): I don't want to change the way people feel about this, I just want to change the laws so that discrimination isn't legal. If you want to think homosexual marriage is wrong, go right ahead. I just don't want you to be able to legally stop homosexual marriage. - josh neff, Fun Dip of FF

Choice? What CHOICE? I don't have any CHOICES!??!!??? *head explodes* - Derrick

No, I specifically called you out separately from the camp. I described the camp position, then dealt with your position. Don't knee-jerk. That reactionary process isn't good for conversation. - Jason Nunnelley

But, D, didn't you CHOOSE to be gay? - Akiva Moskovitz

No more than I chose to be right-handed. - Derrick

Any two consenting adults of legal age ought to be able to enter into a domestic partnership contract. They may then call it whatever the hell they please. Problem solved. - Christopher A Carr

Wait, I missed something. Did California make it illegal to be homosexual? No, they didn't. The people of California voted to support legislation making a "marriage" definition. Marriage is a choice. I chose my relationships and so does anyone that engages in one. You can say it's not a choice, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a personal decision. Love is another topic. Attraction is also. We're not talking about laws against love, attraction, or feelings. - Jason Nunnelley

Right, we're talking about a group of people being denied a right afforded another group of people. It's as simple as that. - Akiva Moskovitz

But Jason, love, attraction, or feelings don't matter anymore, cause it's all about your sexual organs. - Johnny Worthington

@cacarr [Christopher] Look at the thread's history. I said that some time ago, and for that was called a racist, or a bigot, or something. I can't care enough to reread it. - Jason Nunnelley

Civil. Rights. - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed

I'm in a domestic partnership contract, it's called a marriage. Derrick can go into a domestic partnership contract, but he can't call it a marriage... - Johnny Worthington

Jason, I need to read back through it. The point is that the hang up is over a term "marriage." Get government out of the business of "marriage" and it would seem to me that the problem goes away. Grant all adults of any gender combination the right to enter into a contract with all the same legal rights and responsibilities of what is now called "marriage." - Christopher A Carr

...then let them call it whatever they will in accordance with whatever church/religious sensibilities they do or do not have. - Christopher A Carr

Legal and christian viewpoints be damned, you cannot grant rights to a part of the population and take away those same rights to another part. This is the most ridiculous of arguments. As a heterosexual male with a heart of gold, I broke down into uncontrollable tears watching the first news footage of gay couples being married. How can you possibly take away that happiness from two... more... - jcunwired

@jworthington Like I said originally. There's a simple option, nobody wants it. The right-wing wants to argue they are the defenders of marital sanctity. The left wants to make themselves to be the salvation of human dignity, because only they care about human beings and their right to live the lives they want. Meanwhile, people are living the way they want regardless. The state is not my friend. The state is not my god. - Jason Nunnelley

I'm for removing the "marriage" legal language from all currently married hetero couples... If "marriage" has all this Abrahamic religious connotation, then why is government using the term in the first place? - Christopher A Carr

Because the State don't do shit to you. You have all the freedoms afforded to you. You have the luxury of arguing over a word. Actually encounter some discrimination, in real life, then come back. Until then, you speak from a footing of sand sir. - Johnny Worthington

Taking away the word 'marriage' is ridiculous. Instead of granting equal rights, you want to change the language so that you don't have to? - Akiva Moskovitz

Last I checked, changing 'french fries' into 'freedom fries' didn't stick either. - Akiva Moskovitz

@akiva Actually, I don't care. I'm telling you why some people have a hang up with it. You can keep on arguing it until you get the government on your side. Perhaps you can get them to ban Christianity and create a perfect utopia. Have fun. - Jason Nunnelley

Right, Jason, because wanting equal rights for everyone means I want to ban Christianity? Good grief. - Akiva Moskovitz

"All evangelists and proselytizers can eat..." I interpreted this as an angry position against believers. Did I get it wrong? Do you hate Christians? Yes or no? - Jason Nunnelley

Of course not. Not all Christians are evangelists or proselytizers. - Akiva Moskovitz

The thing is Jason... this has NOTHING to do with Christianity. Get over yourself. This is not about you, it's about other people. No one here wants to destroy Christianity, they want their friends to be able to call themselves 'married'... I second Akiva, good grief... - Johnny Worthington

And I also don't really hate anyone. You seem to have an unhealthy attachment to the accusation, Jason. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva: Shit, this is not complex. As things stand, gay couples *should* be able to enter into "marriage" because the right is afforded to hetero couples. I'm for equal rights here... I want to simplify the whole thing by allowing any two adults access to the rights afforded by "marriage." The term "marriage" is unnecessary as legal language. Grant the actual rights, let heterosexual and homosexual couples call this arrangement whatever they will... - Christopher A Carr

@Akiva, I have an interpretation that you're completely intolerant of anyone that disagrees with you. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, prove it. - Akiva Moskovitz

Christopher, the world 'marriage' is important for equality. If separate but equal is not okay for the contract, why should we have to accept it for the language? - joey

Jason, I disagree with Akiva on just about a billion things, and he seems to tolerate me just fine. - joey

It's a belief, based on reading your comments in this thread. If telling people to eat a bag of whatever, calling people that discuss differing points of views (or simply more flexible points of views) bigots isn't intolerant, then I'm just going to have to realize we use a different language altogether. Since my goal is to get government off my back, I've really no dog in this fight. - Jason Nunnelley

joey, no you don't. You agree with everything. - Akiva Moskovitz

I think he tolerates you better than fine, Joey. :P - Rochelle

Joey: There would be no separation in my proposal. Any two people can enter into a partnership contract...including gay couples. They may then call the arrangement whatever they like. - Christopher A Carr

Jason, where did I call anyone a bigot? - Akiva Moskovitz

This is tolerant commentary. - Gavin

Christopher, thanks for clarifying. - joey

@Akiva, you didn't. - Jason Nunnelley

Then you haven't proven any sort of intolerance on my part. There's a difference between disagreeing with people and being intolerant of them. I did not write, 'I wish Christianity would go away,' or anything to that effect. In fact, I didn't call out all Christians at all; I snarked (and I emphasize the word 'snark' here) a particular group of Christians from a particular locality. If you're going to call me 'intolerant', you had better be able to back it up with evidence. - Akiva Moskovitz

Oddly enough, the whole argument can be solved by christian logic. Isn't it God's job to judge what is right or wrong? If so, then WTF are evangelicals doing in the middle of it all? Or do they not believe their god is up to the task? - jcunwired

jcunwired, evangelicals believe that it is their duty to 'save' people from sin. They believe that they are doing the work of G-d and not that they're having to pick up His slack. - Akiva Moskovitz

That comment is bordering on hateful and rude. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you have to be rude. You could have said it in a different tone. It seems that Christians can no longer speak their opinion without being blasted by left-wingers as being intolerant, rude or homophobic. - Gavin

FWIW, I'm an atheist of the Sam Harris variety, and am very disturbed that Christian sensibilities are written into law to the extent that they are in the US. - Christopher A Carr

But to do so Akiva they would need to judge, and according to what I understand about Christianity, this is a serious deviation from the role God plays in their lives. - jcunwired

@jcunwired and @Akiva, I'd say a more accurate description of evangelicals is that they believe it is their job to expose people to the teachings they follow. I think they would take issue with someone claiming they believed they could "save people from their sin." - Jason Nunnelley

Gavin, rude, sure; hateful, nope. Christians have the right to speak their opinion as I am allowed mine. The problem is that Christians use their opinion to bully government into doing their will at the detriment of others. When you try to push your religion on me, expect me to push back. - Akiva Moskovitz

Jason, yeah, that's a much better framing. And my problem with that is your teachings might not be my teachings and you have as much right to force your teachings on me as I have a right to burn your house down. - Akiva Moskovitz

@cacarr It all started with that "all men are created equal" statement. That, being the basis of legal equality, later emancipation, and continues to be at the root of equal rights law. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, except when it involves homosexuals, right? - Akiva Moskovitz

^^touche - jcunwired

Excuse me? Isn't the United States a democracy? Majority rules? How is this religion being pushed on you? You could say the same for same-sex marriage they are forcing their views on the rest of us. Also FYI, marriage is NOT a right. So don't try that one. - Gavin

Christians, would you be against homosexual couples in domestic partnership contracts calling themselves "married?" - Christopher A Carr

Gavin, so, two people of the same sex in a city that is distant from yours getting married somehow affects you? And, if marriage is not a right, then why are there bills to determine who has the right to it? - Akiva Moskovitz

@Akiva, no I'd say that equal rights continue to be protected under the law as our interpretation of it evolves. But, the godless state is not real. It doesn't exist. You'll have to strip it of its roots to eradicate Christian culture from its practices. - Jason Nunnelley

Christopher, nope. No more than I'm against couples from other denominations or religions or a lack thereof calling themselves 'married.' Which is to say, not at all. I am 150% in support of same sex civil marriage. - joey

Jason, so, basically what you're saying is that it is Christians who are standing in the way of equal rights for all people? - Akiva Moskovitz

I believe in full common law rights equivalent to marriage. - Gavin

I was just wondering if Christians tend to be against the idea that gay couples would have legal rights, or if they are just hung up on the lexical semantics of "married." - Christopher A Carr

@Akiva The law may have been a big mistake. I think a better way to go about it is to eliminate state control from our unions. But, I'm not a big fan of the state lately. - Jason Nunnelley

Gavin, so the homosexuals get a consolation prize? What about religious homosexuals who want the same marriage as their heterosexual peers? - Akiva Moskovitz

So now we equate gay marriage to godlessness. - jcunwired

Jason, or just let people alone and stop bullying them around. Let. Them. Marry. - Akiva Moskovitz

The problem runs even deeper than same-sex marriage. In Canada, where I live, we've had same-sex marriage for a few years. In the past few years the homosexual community has taken the burden of rewriting lots of policies to smear non-supporters of homosexuality as homophobes. I have fear of speaking my full mind on homosexuality in my school for fear of punishment. - Gavin

Christians, would you have a problem with leaving the designation of "marriage" to your church? - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, some are against both. We have a domestic partnership law here in Washington and there is a group fighting to repeal it on the grounds that it somehow invalidates heterosexual marriages and that it sends a message that the state condones homosexuality. - joey

Gavin, that's a completely different issue. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, it's not. This is where these issues lead. Trust me the same will happen in California. - Gavin

Gavin, so you're against gay marriage because you're afraid that you'll later be painted as a homophobe? - Akiva Moskovitz

Damn, beat me to it. - jcunwired

Furthermore, Gavin, it's a rather startling thought that you might think that homosexuals want equal rights just so they can use that as a platform to launch a campaign of slander against those who didn't want the homosexuals to have equal rights in the first place. - Akiva Moskovitz

Joey, well, I suppose it's not possible to reason with those people. - Christopher A Carr

Akiva, it's not that I think that, I know that. We've had same-sex marriage in Canada for a few years now, and their influence on government policies, even going as far as changing definitions of words is far reaching. They are demonizing religious people and painting them across the board as homophobes. - Gavin

@cacarr I think it's clear that most churches simply don't recognize a union between two men or two women as an ordained or sanctioned union by the Creator. Christians largely appose homosexual behavior in any context, under any name. The issue is whether Christians want to police what they view as sin, and most don't. Most Christians view intoxication as a sin. Few would want to police intoxicants or intoxication on private property. - Jason Nunnelley

Gavin: So what if there are vocal gay interest groups? I doubt -- even in Canada -- that they have anywhere near the clout of religious organizations. - Christopher A Carr

Gavin, and haven't religious people been demonizing homosexuals as deviants who have no control over their sexuality, are child molesters, and aggressively pursue heterosexuals on a hellbent quest to anally rape them? - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, from a personal standpoint, absolutely not. I don't not look down on these people, I don't insult them, and I don't treat in a degrading way. I simply don't support their lifestyle and I express that opinion. Just because some religious people make those claims doesn't mean it applies to everyone. - Gavin

@Akiva, by definition homosexual behavior is a deviation from the norm. The rest of that statement is just more bigoted crap. Now you're saying all believers fear rape from homosexuals. This is propaganda. And, builds a case that you've got a personal issue with religious people. - Jason Nunnelley

Christopher, actually in the school system which I attend gay interest groups have the most say over policy. - Gavin

Gavin, sure, but it still doesn't answer your paranoia that there's a homosexual agenda that will somehow erode your quality of life. Last I checked, homosexuals getting married won't cause you to suddenly sprout cancer or make heterosexual marriages somehow less irritating. - Akiva Moskovitz

Jason, I was asking a question. I wasn't offering my position. Calm down, you're going to hurt yourself. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, yes it does degrade my quality of life. I am roundly criticized and attacked for my beliefs. You should spend some time with me here and you would see that homosexuals aren't the tolerant bunch they make themselves out to be. - Gavin

Jason, who determines the norm? Check your history, homosexuality was quite the norm in the Roman Empire. - Akiva Moskovitz

Left-handed people deviate from the statistical norm... - Christopher A Carr

Gavin, no need to preach to me. I'm a religious Jew so I suffer shit constantly from smug atheists. But I would never, ever do anything to prevent atheists from having the same quality of life as everyone else. - Akiva Moskovitz

@Akiva, aren't all Washingtonians fascists? See, that's not a polite question. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, I could give a crap less about polite. This isn't a tea party. And, for the record, most Washingtonians are stinky hippies. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, so you're supporting my statement? - Gavin

Gavin, no, I'm not. Re-read what I wrote. - Akiva Moskovitz

@Akiva I think the question insinuates a position. That's why I point it out. As for Rome, I'd say most were still heterosexual. The norm, by natural design, is that a man mates with a woman. This isn't complex. It's the standard in nature for most species and especially so amongst humans. I think these sort of debates are mostly fruitless. You're not going to convince most rigorously... more... - Jason Nunnelley

Akiva, can you explain how marriage relates to quality of life? - Gavin

Jason, so you think that homosexuality is an unhealthy and negative lifestyle? For you or for the homosexuals? - Akiva Moskovitz

Gavin, have you ever had a right taken away from you? Has your government ever told you that you don't get to have the luxuries that others are allowed? It's an issue of equality. And the onus is on you to prove that homosexual marriage somehow ruins your life not ours to prove that homosexual marraige doesn't. - Akiva Moskovitz

Jason, denying equal rights under the law is not ignoring. The effort that was put into passing Prop 8 was tremendous. No one was ignoring homosexuals then. - joey

Jason, and ignoring homosexuals doesn't make them go away. - Akiva Moskovitz

So Jason & Gavin when do we get to vote on your marriage equality rights? - sofarsoShawn

Akiva, actually you're comment about an unhealthy lifestyle brought to mind a study done in Toronto. There was a 20% prevalence of AIDS among homosexual men vs a 0.1% prevalence of AIDS among heterosexual men. No margin of error will close that gap. - Gavin

Jason, I'm not sure anyone has ever asked anyone to "embrace and encourage" a homosexual lifestyle. I think people are simply asking for tolerance and equality. - jcunwired

Gavin, couldn't encouraging healthy, monogamous relationships help close that gap? - joey

joey beat me to it. - Akiva Moskovitz

sofarsoSeán, can you show me where marriage is enshrined as a right? - Gavin

Gavin, ask the homosexuals who are denied the right to be married about that. - Akiva Moskovitz

joey, Akiva, so I guess you have no response to the health risk posed. - Gavin

Sadly another blow against our great republic. Frankly at this point either we legalize Gay marriage or we abolish any legal rights granted by heterosexual marriage. Anything else is an affront to the thousands of people who died for this country. - matthew john ernisse

It's just been codified as of today in the state of California for 1 ex. - sofarsoShawn

Okay, so wait. Gavin, you're against gay marriage because you think it's going to pose a risk to YOUR health? - Rochelle

Gavin, I hate to tell you this but AIDS doesn't know gender. It's a disease. It can be transmitted between heterosexuals as easily as it can be between homosexuals. Unless you think that homosexuals getting married is going to cause you to become HIV positive. - Akiva Moskovitz

Gavin - that sounds like a health risk for the homos, not for you - not to mention I don't think it has much to do with marriage in general either. - Sparky, a big deal

Rochelle, no but in a publicly funded healthcare state like Canada's I end up having to pay for these folks. - Gavin

Wow. Just... wow. - Rochelle

The health risk posed by what? Gay marriage? I didn't realize that it was a pathogen. - joey

Gavin, well, you're not black so shouldn't have pay for treatments for sickle cell anemia either, should you? - Akiva Moskovitz

Gavin, and I have to pay for the treatment of people who want to take my rights away. Welcome to society! - joey

BTW - what do you have to say about a 26.1% HIV positive rate among straight people in Swaziland? Does that mean straight people shouldn't get married there either? - Sparky, a big deal

I'll bet a shiny nickle that in 10 minutes I can find church in California that will happily marry a gay couple. But that isn't what the issue is, now is it. The issue is about granted spousal rights, a legal position. Perhaps, once the emotional outrage has subsided logic will find a way to obtain these very rights which I firmly believe is a) the goal, b) very doable and c) the morally correct stance. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) from fftogo

Gavin - we pay for it down here too. Just because insurance is privatized it still has to break even at a minimum. When large numbers of people get sick insurance companies raise everyones rates. - Sparky, a big deal

Akiva, sickle cell anemia is not limited to African-Americans. - Gavin

AIDS isn't limited to gays. - matthew john ernisse

Dammit. matthew beat me to it. - Akiva Moskovitz

But a 2000% difference isn't a coincidence. - Gavin

where did you pull out those statistics from? - D. Eda Goze

A study done in Toronto. - Gavin

Link to study, please. - Rochelle

Gavin, you still haven't been able to support your connection between a disease and marriage. - Akiva Moskovitz

Yes, I'm looking for it. - Gavin

Take your time. Please. - jcunwired

Okay, pretend that I'm taking the AIDS argument seriously for a moment...again, wouldn't encouraging healthy, monogamous relationships (as well as bringing health issues and therefore education out of the closet, pun intended) help fight against it? - joey

Yes, and what Akiva said. Does this study say that gay marriage causes AIDS? - Rochelle

You know, Gavin has convinced me. I'm now against gay marriage AND infectious disease. - Sparky, a big deal

I agree with you MVB. - Steve

link? is it only for western cultures? what about Africa. it's funny that it does not sound like a legit "study done in Toronto". - D. Eda Goze

Frankly who cares? It's not like letting people enjoy equal rights is going to change anything for you. You could say white heterosexual couples suffer from angst and divorce at a rate of 2000% over gay couples. Who cares, if we make anything a state sponsored 'right' that is afforded any legal status what so ever, it is either afforded to everyone equally or it's not. Anything less and you might as well legislate against interracial couples, or interfaith. - matthew john ernisse

As I have stated earlier it is more about the future consequences of these actions then this direct result. If you read my earlier comments, you will see what I mean. Also I can't find the study right now, but I will continue to look. It may be on my other pc. - Gavin

Matthew, if evangelicals win this battle, your statement may not be too far from the truth. - jcunwired

What kind of wine do you serve with bowl of dicks? - Matthew DeVries

Global HIV infection rates by country: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input... - Sparky, a big deal

Matthew... White of course :P - Johnny Worthington

I fail to see how marriage leads to AIDS but I'm engaged, so I'm getting a little bit concerned. Somebody help me out, here. - joey

Anyways, I got into this discussion because of the original message. I feel that if you can't at least be respectful of the other side I don't think you deserve my attention. - Gavin

Joey - when you get married you are statistically more likely to share needles with your spouse. That's your AIDS correlation. - Sparky, a big deal

Gavin - I've know Akiva long enough to know he only says "bag of dicks" with the utmost of respect. - Sparky, a big deal

Gavin, I'm all for civil discussion, but why should I have to be gracious and respect those who show no respect for others? - joey

Sparkles, oh thank goodness we prefer inhalants then! (UM, IN CASE MY SISTER SEES THIS, I'M KIDDING!) - joey

Gavin, thanks for giving me an assload of the attention I didn't deserve then. Just goes to show how awesome I am. - Akiva Moskovitz

HAHA, YOUR JOKE IS FUNNY JOEY. PLEASE PASS THE NITROUS AND SODOMY. - Sparky, a big deal

@joey Don't show respect for people that disagree with you. It helps to galvanize them and supports their position. It makes your position look like an inflexible and reactionary position. There's no hope for common ground, so it tells them up front they should dig in and defend themselves. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, I was tremendously respectful in conveying my opinions to you. You countered by telling me that as minority, my views (and religion) don't matter. That's not common ground...that's one side oppressing another because they have the upper hand at the moment. Why should those being oppressed have to give in and settle for less? And for the record, I AM inflexible with regard to equal rights. - joey

You could solidly argue because gay relationships are discriminated against it forces them in the closet and contributes to those factors of promiscuous, anonymous sex. No one wants to be an outsider. Whereas if it wasn't considered an "abomination" as the religious fundy's claim and gay relationships through marriage or otherwise were maybe not the norm but at least acceptable, it would help to prevent HIV/AIDS which I see, the higher %s, as being largely due to the discrimination we've just seen today. - sofarsoShawn

@joey You're applying meaning to my statements that weren't intended. I said this country's language and laws are based on protestant beliefs and traditions. I said nothing about your faith or your personal views, let alone their value or worth. I'm dealing in reality. Exposing history and facts doesn't make me a bigot. Calling me a bigot (not accusing you personally) doesn't change those facts. - Jason Nunnelley

To they who say that @joey is wrong - if the framers, the lawmakers, the founders of our society thought that the sactity of the marriage extended to the word 'marriage' then they should not have wrote it into secular law. The term for the ultimate binary partnership between 2 people should not have used a holy word, they should have used a legal-ish word. They defiled and bastardized... more... - Matthew DeVries

Jason, I haven't used the word bigot once in this 300-post conversation (as you noted), so I have no idea what you're talking about. - joey

50 state us estimates, Male-to-male sexual contact: 487,695 Injection drug use: 255,859 High-risk heterosexual contact: 176,157 that is not a %2000 difference. Also for the diagnoses in 2007 Male-to-male sexual contact: 16,749 High-risk heterosexual contact: 11,111 . That is not a big difference. Also %59.2 of aids patients are black. so they should not get married as well right?? aids... more... - D. Eda Goze

Joey - not that it belittles your statements or beliefs, but how are you a minority? - Sparky, a big deal

Matthew, you make a good case against my proposal.... - Christopher A Carr

Sparky, in the context of this conversation, he was saying that the Catholic definition of marriage doesn't matter because Catholics are a minority. - joey

!!!!! Isn't Catholicism the #2 religion in the world? !!!!! - Sparky, a big deal

@Matthew DeVries Ever since the patriarchs allowed for a writ of divorce the marriage term has been belittled. The New Testament is so confusing because people don't know what the word means, so when it's used in its secular context the readers often misunderstand that it's not talking about a spiritually acceptable marriage, but a union recognized by the patriarchs, then the religious leaders, then the state. - Jason Nunnelley

If not #1? - Sparky, a big deal

Only if you don't count "protestants" as 1 faith, which in a debate between the catholics and any other protestant faith, they'll always stand together against Rome. - Matthew DeVries

To be clear here, on the issue it wasn't strictly due to Christian evangelicals, they may have spearheaded the campaign but they were able to ally themselves with largely many of the immigrant communities of the Muslim and Hindu faith who believed/argued as much that this was a "Family" values issue. It's a "fundy" issue so to speak. - sofarsoShawn

I thought Islam was closely followed by Catholics followed by Pretestants - Sparky, a big deal

@joey What I said is that Catholics didn't found the country, set the law, or establish the basis of its origin. Protestant Englishmen established the language. That's why it's called "English Common Law." Our law is built upon that law and its origins. And, yes, it comes from Catholic heritage, but it also comes from Judaism and we don't forbid eating certain foods as "clean" and "unclean." - Jason Nunnelley

My grandmother is a 94 year old Catholic's Catholic, still going to church 4 days a week. She supports gay marriage because what she gained from her religion is tolerance, and as mentioned before, she feels as though only God has the right to judge. - jcunwired

I am deeply saddened by this decision in Cali. I am glad to see that the Friendfeed community are the good peeps that I knew them to be. Legislating exclusion is wrong and a very slippery slope. - Mathew A. Koeneker

Jason, that's exactly my point, though. Definitions evolve over time and if Protestants can redefine marriage from Catholics (who redefined from Jews) then why can't the secular definition evolve? - joey

I can clear up the HIV infection discrepancy issue somewhat. HIV is more easily transmitted via anal sex than it is by vaginal intercourse. However, this is not as much the case in much of Africa due to the prevalence of certain parasitic infections the create a situation of increased blood exchange during vaginal intercourse. And single gay men get laid more frequently because, well,... more... - Christopher A Carr

American law is as such: Magna Carta, English Common Law, Constitution, state contitutions, amendments, regulations, social understanding, cultural interpretations, binding legal decisions in recognized courts. - Jason Nunnelley

Christianity is the biggest in the world. Roman Catholics are the biggest single christian faith, but they are much smaller than the whole of the non-Catholic Christians counted together. - Matthew DeVries

And Jason, the "major faith" of the founders was Church of England - which as a child of a Catholic and and Anglican, I can tell you, they're same fucking thing, just one has a Pope. - Matthew DeVries

The court did not legislate exclusion today - Steve

Matthew, that reminds me of a joke... - joey

You know, if the framers of the constitution had intended the bible (and a given person's individual preferred translation and interpretation thereof) to be the source of our complete sense of normalcy and ethics, we'd have written the law in terms of the bible. It's a perfectly valid way to frame a government, especially if you provide a lengthy text of interpretations, a la sharia... more... - Wirehead

Church of England = Diet Catholic, all the sins for half the guilt? That one joey? - Matthew DeVries

Haha, no but I like that. It's 'Why can't Anglicans win at chess? Because they can't tell the difference between a Bishop and a Queen!' - joey

Christopher Carr - WTF? Did you read a pamphlet about AIDS in 1989 and just quit learning about it since then? All of those are 80's myths about AIDS, with no actual peer reviewed data to back it up. - Matthew DeVries

The information about associations between parasite load and vaginal HIV transmission in Africa is relatively new. - Christopher A Carr

@Matthew what @joey was saying was similar, except she wanted me to recognize that since her faith only recognizes a Catholic Church ordained union and yet still calls us condemned sorts married, that we pseudo-Christians should be cool calling same-sex couples married. The problem here is that non-Catholics view marriage as including non-believers, believers, divorced people, etc. The... more... - Jason Nunnelley

Jason - if the framers, the lawmakers, the founders of our society thought that the sactity of the marriage extended to the word 'marriage' then they should not have wrote it into secular law. The term for the ultimate binary partnership between 2 people should not have used a holy word, they should have used a legal-ish word. They defiled and bastardized their own sacrament and now the... more... - Matthew DeVries

Furthermore, over eighty million dollars was blown on this stupid law. Do we want to talk about the *good* that eighty million dollars could have done instead of going to taking rights away from people who happen to prefer the company of the same gender? - Wirehead

Christopher, link to article or source about the "parasite load and vaginal HIV transmission" please. - Rochelle

Jason, see what I did there? We're going have "The" debate, not "your" debate. You will be held to debate team standards, which includes, not allowing Straw Men. - Matthew DeVries

@Steve If it isn't exclusion than what is it? - Mathew A. Koeneker

Jason, I don't in any way view non-Catholics as condemned. That's not the worldview I'm looking through. I was trying to illustrate that definitions are not owned by any one group. Also, while the Magna Carta certainly influenced the United States, it doesn't actually have legal bearing here. Our legal system also diverges from common law; it's not the sole source. We have constitutional supremacy. - joey

@Matthew DeVries You're dealing with "should" and I'm dealing with "is." My country wasn't founded by people that believe in the same things I believe in, largely. They owned slaves, traded in religious colloquialisms. They largely didn't practice what many modern Americans would consider sound Christianity. But, we deal with the laws and the culture we're handed by history and heritage. - Jason Nunnelley

mar·riage [ márrij ] (plural mar·riages) noun Definition: 1. legal relationship between spouses: a legally recognized relationship, established by a civil or religious ceremony, between two people who intend to live together as sexual and domestic partners mar·riage [ márrij ] (plural mar·riages) It's not a religious term. - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed

@m9m Why two people? Isn't that closed minded? - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, this is a debate over homosexual equal rights, not polygamy. - Akiva Moskovitz

Rochele: http://www.thaindian.com/newspor... http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/article... http://www.newscientist.com/article... - Christopher A Carr

Mawwage. Mawwage is what bwings us togethew today. Mawwage, that bwessed awwangement, that dweam within a dweam And wove, twue wove, wiww fowwow you fowevah So tweasuwe youw wove And do you, Pwincess Buwwercwup, - Matthew DeVries

@Akiva Sorry, I didn't realize there were rules. It seems to me if you're going to require people accept a definition of a word that the majority feel means something you don't like, you may as well clean the word up completely and remove all limitations from it. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, I'm just trying to prevent you from derailing this discussion by bringing in practices that have nothing to do with homosexual equal rights. - Akiva Moskovitz

Christopher Carr - LOL - Yes, all the words that you said are quoted in the articles linked, but not even remotely in the order that you claimed they did, to convey any message remotely supporting your conclusion. - Matthew DeVries

Jason, if you want to start a debate about polygamy, start a new post. - Rochelle

@Akiva, you're not convincing anyone to believe anything they don't already believe. This discussion isn't changing anyone's position. @Rochelle I will abstain from this discussion though. I don't like the rules. See, that's how easy it is. Someone here should take notes. - Jason Nunnelley

Jason, let's also debate the US postal service and their rates, while we're at it. Because, you know, that has as much to do with gay marriage as polygamy does. - Rochelle

Matthew, what are you taking issue with exactly? - Christopher A Carr

Well, you do realize, Jason, that over time we've moved from a culture where gays were afraid to come out of the closet at all to where we are today. So, no, the debates on homosexuality have born fruit. Just not in the direction you want them to. - Wirehead

Call me when we get to man-goat marriage. I have some input for that. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) from fftogo

Matthew: "ONE of the biggest mysteries of HIV is why the virus spreads so readily via heterosexual sex in Africa, but not elsewhere. A study in monkeys suggests parasitic worms may be to blame" : http://www.newscientist.com/article... - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, what exactly does that have to do with gay marriage equality? - Rochelle

Jason, when did I ever say my intention was to convince anyone of anything? I'm just horsing around. - Akiva Moskovitz

Rochelle, it's a long thread... one of the Christians in the conversation was bringing up HIV infection rate discrepancies between heteros and gays... - Christopher A Carr

Rochelle, if the gays get married we all get AIDS. Didn't you see them state that as fact? Case closed! - Sparky, a big deal

Also, Jason, your trying to derail this topic has as much to do with my intentions as polygamy does gay marriage. - Akiva Moskovitz

Rochelle: While I'm on the same side as Matthew on this political issue, he was taking me to task because I think he would prefer that there were no differences in anal and vaginal sex as regards HIV transmission. - Christopher A Carr

Akiva - in all seriousness I think the two are related. I think a basic human right is love - I don't care who it's between; a man and a women, two men, two women, three men, whatever - so long as it only involves consenting adults what harm is letting people go off and love each other? If someone has two partners should only one of them be allowed to visit them in the hospital on their deathbed? - Sparky, a big deal

But this is off-topic at this point... - Christopher A Carr

Christopher, you do realize that straight people can have anal sex as well, right? - Rochelle

Rochelle: pics or it didn't happen! - Sparky, a big deal

Akiva: techno-hippie, thankyouverymiuch. - Sparky, a big deal

Sparky, TWSS - Rochelle

Of course I do, Rochelle. Blood exposure is the issue, not sexual orientation per se... - Christopher A Carr

+1 Sparky - twice! - jcunwired

Uh. I accidentally deleted my last comment. I called Sparky a hippie. Because it's true. He's stinky, too. Just like a Washingtonian. - Akiva Moskovitz

Akiva, I grew up in Eugene... talk about hippies. - Christopher A Carr

Hey now - of the many hippy traits I have a strong scent isn't one of them. I'm kinda anal about hygiene and am allergic to fragrances. - Sparky, a big deal

Haha. Sparky said "anal" and "hygiene" in the same sentence. - Rochelle

I still can't stand the smell of patchouli... - Christopher A Carr

I have good anal hygiene too, but I wasn't really going to trumpet that horn on that one without your prompting Rochelle. - Sparky, a big deal

Pics or it didn't happen? - Rochelle

Awesome. You know that one is going to be the post that comes back to haunt you. - Neal Jansons from IM

GREAT WE'VE TOTALLY DERAILED THE SUBJECT - Akiva Moskovitz

The only thing worse than a hippie from Washington is a hippie from Oregon. - Akiva Moskovitz

Wow, who could have seen that coming?! - joey

BACK ON TASK: evangelists are dick-bag eaters, everyone else hates on the homophobes. - Sparky, a big deal

DON'T TALK SHIT ABOUT OREGON. Now finish your bag of dicks. - Christopher Harley

@Joey, should you really talk about something coming on a thread about eating bags of dicks? ;-) - Joey Gibson

Hahaha. Apparently no. - joey

I grew up with hippies, they aren't stinky. - jcunwired

Just stinky nug. :) - Mathew A. Koeneker

Now that's a BIG gulp - Neal Jansons from IM

Wait - stinky nug? Does this provide the tie necessary to say gay marriage == increased drug uses in minors? - Sparky, a big deal

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand scene. Thank you everyone for playing! - Akiva Moskovitz

This might be one of those test cases for **** can get a lot of responses. :-) - moon_shadow70

To be very honest, the response this thing got completely surprised me. It was a throw-away comment, a moment of frustration, and a chance to bring in a little aggressive levity to hopefully make a few people chuckle. - Akiva Moskovitz

It's now your post with the most comments. Very telling that it beat out The Atoll of Succulent Areolae. - Christopher Harley

Dang. :( - Akiva Moskovitz

Damn almost 400 comments, that's a lot of dick eating, especially with the bag full conversion. - Steve C

Really, he had us all at dicks. - Sparky, a big deal

Actually I think I have the solution, one that should be acceptable to Jason Nunnelly. Let's make same-sex marriage legal. People can get married to another person of whatever gender. It's marriage, legally, just like different-sex marriage. But written into the law should be a stipulation that people like Jason and members of his church should be permitted, without penalty, to use... more... - Nathan Rein

@nathan and create an new epithet? cause that's the connotation that word will have in those circles. It's a covenant for the love between the people getting married in the eyes of law, that they are effectively one and can speak for the other when situations arise where they can't do so themselves - whether that covenant has extra things associated with it in someones faith is neither... more... - alphaxion

<hijack>Gavin, out of curiosity, do you live in Abbotsford, BC or in the Fraser Valley?</hijack> I live in Canada - Vancouver to be exact - and I've never seen any evidence of the kind of anti-Christian rhetoric from LGBT communities that you speak of. - cecily

Dave Winer

One of the first questions for the @nyt social media editor: What about asking Twitter to take you off the list. It's time to discuss that.

May 26 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs and Jorge Escobar liked this

how about: why are all your feeds private? - Brad_King

2 more comments

Whew. You know when I got that on Twitter there was no context, so it read as you accusing me of something. Be careful about that. - Dave Winer

the fun + danger of social media :) I go out of my way *not* to accuse ppl of things in 140 characters or less. Sorry for the confusion. - Brad_King

That's okay -- glad to not be accused for a change! :-) - Dave Winer

Marshall Kirkpatrick

NYTimes Appoints First Social Media Editor http://smub.it/gf9 background & what job may include

May 26 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Gavin, Rick Turoczy and S. Charles Balazs liked this

papa moussa

Consolidation in the EBook Market: Amazon Acquires Stanza - ReadWriteWeb - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...

April 27 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs liked this

Lexcycle , the company behind Stanza , a popular eBook reader for the iPhone, just announced that it has been acquired by Amazon. Amazon, of course, also just released Kindle for iPhone , which is now one of the most popular mobile eBook readers. - papa moussa

Good, the Stanza reader on the iPhone is better than the Kindle app as a reader. - S. Charles Balazs

Kol Tregaskes

Friendfeed Search Everywhere « Building Feedly - http://blog.feedly.com/2009...

April 16 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

LouCypher, Dobromir Hadzhiev, vijay and 9 other people liked this

"Feedly mini now integrates friendfeed and feedly search results into Google Search, Yahoo, MSN, Wikipedia, Amazon, eBay and more. Here is how it works:" - Kol Tregaskes from Bookmarklet

3 more comments

Dang, definitely need to go back from Chrome to Firefox just to keep Feedly. Wish Feedly worked with Chrome. - S. Charles Balazs

Me too! - Kol Tregaskes

Agreed. Feedly has changed not only the way I move through my RSS feeds, but search also. Truly a great product. - James

With a few more tweaks and a Chrome version, feedly would be regularly used by me, for sure. - Kol Tregaskes

Brandon Mendelson

On object lesson in walls « BuzzMachine - http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009...

April 14 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs liked this

"I wanted to read about the news that former online publisher Steven Brill, former Wall Street Journal online exc Gordon Crovitz, and former cable exec Leo Hindery had teamed up to to create a company to enable news companies to huddle behind a wall and charge for their content." - Brandon Mendelson from Bookmarklet

Louis Gray

Amazon's Fail: Not Using Social Media to React to #AmazonFail Meme - http://www.pbs.org/mediash...

April 14 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Desiree Diva Hickson, Chris Zlatis, Apostolos Papadopoulos and 5 other people liked this

The question is why didn't Amazon immediatley issue an appology? - Nicholas James

I don't know that social media will ever be able to park people's assumptions, and lets face it, the grand assumption was that this was not an error. There is a reason law dictate's the accused is innocent until proven guitly, because we all too often assume guilty until proven innocent. Could they have had more real time response, yes. Would it have mattered terribly is part of the on-going fishbowl we are all choosing to live in. - Patrick Boegel

Sector - Mediatech

Possible HotJobs Sale Raises Questions For Yahoo Newspaper Partners - http://www.paidcontent.org/entry...

April 14 from paidContent.org - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs liked this

The news today that Yahoo (NSDQ: YHOO) is reportedly seeking a buyer for HotJobs will certainly once again fuel worry among the nearly 800 Yahoo Newspaper Consortium members about how dedicated new Yahoo CEO Carol Bartz is to the alliance. Access to HotJobs listings has been—and continues to be—a major reason that newspapers have wanted to join the Yahoo consortium. Yahoo HotJobs has launched co-branded career sites with the majority of the member papers. A Yahoo spokeswoman declined to comment, stating that the company does not comment on rumors or speculation. But at the Newspaper Consortium CEO Summit in Las Vegas earlier this month, members said they were already somewhat concerned about the impact that the departure of Yahoo President Sue Decker, a driving force behind the consortium, would have. Those worries were somewhat offset by the hope that Bartz's hiring would mean that Yahoo would once again be able to—in the words of one attendee—get "back to (the) more mundane business...

Baratunde's Room - Future Of Media

Lacy: I'm not ashamed of my interview with Tesla's CEO - http://www.poynter.org/column...

April 15 from Romenesko - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs liked this

New York Observer "Look, I'm a girl from the South! Sometimes I laugh," says Sarah Lacy, discussing her video interview with Tesla CEO Elon Musk. (Lacy thought it was hilarious when Musk called NYT's Randall Stross "a huge douche bag." Stross' editor says Lacy "was too busy giggling to do Journalism 101." )

Baratunde's Room - Future Of Media

The pluses and minuses of Journalism Online - http://www.poynter.org/column...

April 15 from Romenesko - Comment - Like - Share

S. Charles Balazs liked this

Content Bridges | paidContent Ken Doctor says one good thing about the Brill/Crovitz/Hindery venture is that it's not another Silicon Valley start-up. "They stand out from the crowd of wannabe-friends-of-the-industry." But that's a minus, too, he notes. "They may be too traditional, too top-heavy and lacking the nimbleness that start-ups offer." || Steve Brill talks to Staci Kramer about Journalism Online. > Blodget: "For several reasons, we're skeptical this will work" > Tate: Why newspapers shouldn't buy what Brill is selling