Science 2.0

Sent a letter to my congressman. - Andrew Lang

Andrew, can you put up the letter somewhere, so that others can take it as a template for their own letters? - Daniel Mietchen

@Daniel SPARC/Alliance for Taxpayer Access have published a template letter:- http://www.taxpayeraccess.org/action... - Graham Steel

I used the template that Graham mentioned. I just followed the link in your original post and it got me there. The form allows you to add few additional comment of your own/personalize. It worked well - took 5 mins. - Andrew Lang

:) - Graham Steel

:) Elsevier has quite a strong showing on this list... - Matthew Todd

Daniel: some data available here: http://www.sennoma.net/main... but the linked post makes it quite clear that Elsevier's public price list bears little relationship to what they actually charge. - Bill Hooker

This presumes fixed strategies and rational decisions I presume? So there are also marketing effects in here as well? Not just what are the percentage of players in each camp but the perceived percentage? - Cameron Neylon

Important theory... now many tend to think that Closed Science only takes advantage of Open Science... game theory can provide some (theoretical) evidence for that.... interesting! - Egon Willighagen

Open science has many "players". Do the arguments hold if I am Player 1 and the crowd is Player 2? - Matthew Todd

If you haven't already, you should check the literature on game theory and collective action problems (e.g., http://scholar.google.com/scholar... ) Open science is an example of a collective action problem. - Michael Nielsen

@Michael, I haven't read any background yet. Rob has, I'm sure, as he used this in his Ph.D. research in evolutionary biology (experiment + modeling/theory). I'm hoping I can get his attention / contribution on this thread soon! I don't have any background in game theory. But, as far as I understand, the analysis Rob's done so far is the most basic first step, and tit for tat (TFT)... more... - Steve Koch

@Mat I am not sure. I'm going to see if I can get Rob to chime in here! - Steve Koch

@Cameron, I think this starting point is fixed strategies, either "defect" or "tit for tat." Like I said in one legend, I can't remember what "temptation to defect" means exactly. I don't think perception is modeled in this basic starting point. I sent an email to Rob urging him to chime in on this thread, so I hope he can! - Steve Koch

Good to see this being tackled in a more formal way, but sure, the simple 2x2 matrix is only the first step. For instance, collaboration can well occur behind closed doors. - Daniel Mietchen

Side issue: Wouldn't something like Octave or R be a better fit to an open project than MATLAB? - Daniel Mietchen

Totally agree open coding platform would be better. Right now there's not much code at all, since it's analytical that Rob did. (Rob, can you post snapshot images of your calculations, if any?) Since right now it's just plotting, R would be good. (I added the text to his images via powerpoint, just for convenience.) I am tempted later tonight to make the pots in R. A further aside: I... more... - Steve Koch

A somewhat related project is Lee Worden's "Mathematics of Direct Democracy" at http://rockethub.com/project... (or, more detailed, at http://lalashan.mcmaster.ca/theobio... ) - see also https://plus.google.com/u... on link to collective action problems. - Daniel Mietchen

PMR stated "Libraries (who are fragmented, and who care only about price, not rights)" Well, libraries are fragmented, and many libraries focus a lot on price, but he doesn't know how much we work on the license language in the contracts we sign. - The Ghost of Library Past

Some of us do appreciate that a lot of work gets done. The trouble is that the fragmentation means that all that work achieves little that is visible to those of us on the other side of the browser. End result is that we tend to ignore your work and just cheat. Part of PMRs point is that if libraries combined more effectively, and could get researchers riled in the right way, them that... more... - Cameron Neylon

So bitching at us will lead us to speak with one voice exactly how? (It's the same dilemma libraries have had for the last three decades, really.) - RepoRat

Also: it is NOT libraries' fault that faculty have been (and mostly still are) oblivious to these issues. Gimme a break. - RepoRat

Also also: I suddenly realize that I predicted this faculty reaction. Go me. http://scientopia.org/blogs... (Though hell's bells, last year's predictions were NOT good. Yikes.) - RepoRat

Not disagreeing, just trying to play out the perspective. Lack of communication and understanding on both sides isn't serving anyone's interests in the long term and no-one has the energy to take their eyes off the short term. Which leaves everyone frazzled and short tempered. On which note, I think it's time for me to take my leave and have a few quiet days disconnected from everything... - Cameron Neylon

I hear you. :) Happy hols. - RepoRat

..and to you and to all! :-) ...yeh I haven't managed to walk out yet...really am trying... - Cameron Neylon

I should also forward kudos to Michael Nielsen, as Alex recently read his book "reinventing discovery..." and was inspired to ask this question. - Steve Koch

I would LOVE to talk to this person about library school, science librarianship, and data curation. LOVE LOVE. dorothea.salo@gmail.com - RepoRat

I was in his same position about 3-4 years ago and now I feel like I'm in a position to make an impact, so I'd be happy to talk to him as well. I believe you have my email, so feel free to pass it along. - Mr. Gunn

Thanks Repo & MrGunn -- Hopefully Alex will contact you if he wants. If you're comfortable, I was also hoping for some really great public discussion on this thread. I think we'd learn a lot from it! - Steve Koch

Software development is another possible career path to explore. After all, those labs & libraries & startups will need people with both good science knowledge and good software skills to help build those open systems. - John Dupuis

Btw, I get science people contacting me occasionally to talk about library careers and I definitely tell them it's something worth exploring. - John Dupuis

Well, the library school I teach at (U Wisconsin-Madison) is launching a science-librarianship track. For data curation specifically, we probably aren't the place to go; Illinois and UNC-CH are. (Illinois has a well-regarded distance-ed program; I don't know what UNC-CH does.) That said, I do my best, and I have former students doing well -- frex, one is at the National Library of... more... - RepoRat

If he doesn't have any particular research interest -- if there are no research questions that keep him up at night -- then he should avoid grad school, at least until he finds such an obsession. Grad school is no place for a human being and the only way to make it worthwhile is if you are there because you have found your vocation. With similar reasoning, unless something "clicks" and he discovers that kind of connection with librarianship (/other field), I'd avoid rushing into library (/other) school. - Bill Hooker

At the end of undergrad, one is very young -- my usual advice is to go out and try a few things. E.g. get a job as a research assistant; if he's really brave, apply for every such position he can find and bring up Open Science in the interview. Are there library internships? Entrepreneurial avenues are more difficult to square with an Open Foo approach unless you are in the driver's seat -- starting your own company and taking your own risks. - Bill Hooker

I guess all of this depends on his personal situation -- married, kids, etc? If he can travel freely for work and can afford to spend a few years not worrying too much about making ends meet, it will be a lot easier for him to knock around a bit and gather intel for a better decision making process. - Bill Hooker

Library school is a professional program; one escapes with a master's. (Going on for a Ph.D in LIS is a mug's game, I agree.) So the calculus Bill is talking about is just a tiddy bit different -- but it's STILL important. Opportunity cost is not to be sneezed at. - RepoRat

"Grad school is no place for a human being" - Bill Hooker. This is going in my next presentation. :) What is he interested in in physics? If it is theoretical, I might be able to advise him on possible people to work with. - Andrew Lang

first: find some scientists who are interested in open science. it's not the no-brainer you'd think it could be. - henry

I think the algorithmic handling of data provides good perspectives for people with an open science slant, and so does the creation of interesting citizen science projects and of open educational resources from open access, open source and open science materials. I am testing those waters myself and will gladly respond to any questions about that. - Daniel Mietchen

Henry's point is what I was clumsily getting at when I said "bring up OS in the interview". You can still count on both hands (and maybe a foot) the number of labs where OS or ONS is openly on the menu, so he may have to make rather than find an opportunity. - Bill Hooker

Thank you everyone for the good thoughts! Hopefully Alex will join the thread (I encouraged him to join FriendFeed to do so). Ironically, I'm at an e-science conference that prevents me from having wifi or cell coverage during most of the day! - Steve Koch

Perhaps they have a different idea about the "e" in e-science. Wonder what that may be. - Daniel Mietchen

Hey all, this is Alexander. I wasn't expecting such immediate results from contacting Dr. Koch, but this is great. I had thought along the lines of software/online tools and entrepreneurship, but not about library school. In terms of research interest, I've switched to applied mathematics from physics - I think that modeling ability will be increasingly important in the future. I also... more... - Alexander Barron

If I expand on what Bill was saying - if you want to make an impact in open science then there is the looooooooooooong game...actually getting into research and hoping to make a small difference along the way and a gradually bigger difference as you get there. This is tough, and unless you have a real burning passion for research then I'd advise against that (and I'm effectively tenured faculty so take this with as much or as little salt as you wish!). - Cameron Neylon

The shorter route is getting into a place, generally a company, startup, or resource like a library where you can make a real difference today. In terms of data handling and modelling there is real potential in the "library space" today. Most librarie aren't realising it but the folks around here can definitely tell you what the options are (and aren't at the moment). Equally there are... more... - Cameron Neylon

Re libraries: frankly, what most of us who do this in libraries now are doing is making the case for what we do so that we can be given resources and time to do it. If schmoozing isn't your thing, wait a few years for libraries to catch up -- or take your MLS straight into a research context (which is happening!). - RepoRat

Alex: I am currently at a conference with two UNM peeps from the Library, both are heavily involved in using computation / software / online tools for "connected science." When we return I can put you in touch with them, particularly Rob Olendorf, and you could get an idea for the potential the Library has to make a huge impact on ALL areas of research--by enabling the kinds of things... more... - Steve Koch

I have a couple of friends, one with and one without a PhD, who went from bio research to library school. I can put you in touch if you want to collect different perspectives. - Bill Hooker

Heard a LOT of caution at dinner about pursuing MLS degree without science degree as far as hiring concerned.lots of competition and biases that won't go away soon. - Steve Koch from Android

I'm not having ANY trouble placing students with science backgrounds. And I don't even run a whole data-curation program! (It should be said that my students are pretty badass.) - RepoRat

To clarify, I meant without advanced (PhD) science degrees, which I think Repo inferred. Sooooo, there's disagreement. At least at first, it seems that those of us with science PhDs working in research view it as a long road to slow change. But even some (not all) of those in Library (with or without science PhD) view science/research as a good path. One person at dinner pointed out... more... - Steve Koch

It seems to me that in order to get open science moving at more than a snail's pace, some preliminary system has to be made. Open science has to be at least somewhat viable as an alternative to "old" science. People need an incentive to offset, at least partially, opportunity cost ("publish or perish"). I've seen a few science majors veer off from science when graduating after seeing... more... - Alexander Barron

It sounds to me like you'd benefit from talking with some people like Carl Boettiger, Mark Hahnel, and perhaps some people at Mendeley who are close to your career stage, but a bit further along. Mr. Gunn (above) is at Mendeley, but I think those others haven't appeared on this thread yet. Your thoughts are well-aligned with Michael Nielsen and others as far as the incentive system goes... more... - Steve Koch

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and would love to brainstorm a project that gets us to the open science tipping point faster. Currently I'm trying to figure out how social media and the web can be used as instant reward. Basically getting hits to your open notebook would (hopefully) give you the same feeling of reward as reads on a published paper. And I know I've been getting much satisfaction from the hits in my notebook. - Anthony Salvagno

Ant: Alex is still around campus I think and would probably enjoy meeting you. Also agree about rewards. You and I and others get tons of personal rewards. Many of those will continue, such as the reward from doing science better by sharing. Others are transient, such as recognition because it's new will fade as open science practices take over. But the _official_ rewards are still... more... - Steve Koch

I think that having both a link wrapper and allowing the user to link to the ONSclaims wiki is a good idea. I'll be including the link with the logo from now on. - Andy Maloney

I was thinking of the link wrapper method. Image searching hadn't occurred to me. I hadn't thought about someone doing ONS objecting to the wrapper (they are free to make themselves less searchable but why would they?). - Bill Hooker

I created a friendfeed group "open notebooks" with RSS feeds from ONS I could find. Sort of the reverse of automatically finding them. If we could find the feeds from some kind of ONS logo search, then we could use Yahoo Pipes to create an RSS feed of all ONS feeds. http://friendfeed.com/open-no... (Not sure if this group is useful, but I'll use it for a while) - Steve Koch

I added the notebook to the wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Steve Koch

However, I note that the list is quite out of date, and it seems impossible to make / keep up to date. Wikipedia editors (e.g. Jean-Claude): what to do? - Steve Koch

If people start using J-C's ONS logos (http://onsclaims.wikispaces.com/), surely we could auto-generate a list. Initially it would be small enough that we could hand-curate (plus we'd all want to go look at every new site using the logo). - Bill Hooker

Thanks Steve I really appreciate it. And Bill I like the ONS logos and the idea behind them, I didn't know them but I have now one on my site :) - Andrés G. Saravia

I sent Andy and Anthony a note to add the in their new notebooks. Thanks for reminding us and great idea! - Steve Koch from Android

And btw Andrés, I love the set up of your notebook. The logo fits in great too - Steve Koch from Android

Congratulations, Andrés - you are certainly off for a good start. One thing I am missing in such blog-based notebooks is the version history. Anyone know of an example that actually has it public? - Daniel Mietchen

That's a really good point, Daniel. I literally forgot about that issue when Anthony switched from OWW to Wordpress. You wordpress guys know the answer? Versioning is very important for ONS! - Steve Koch

Its not straightforward in Wordpress to do versioning. I think KnowledgeBlogs achieves this by doing something complex like having a page for each version and a post for the most recent or something along those lines? there are a bunch of cludges basically but its not a native aspect of WP and that is a problem... - Cameron Neylon

Wouldn't it be possible to put the Wordpress installation into a GitHub repository and have each post, comment, edit or moderation trigger an auto-commit? - Daniel Mietchen

Sounds like a good idea to me, Daniel. But I don't have the experience to know. Anyone expert w/github to comment? - Steve Koch from Android

I guess that could work in principle but I'd have no idea about how to go about setting it up on a live server. It also doesn't really solve the central problem of how to make those versions accessible to the casual web viewer. Actually it also occurs to me that the WP content is in a database anyway so its probably not really visible to git in any useful form. - Cameron Neylon