"So what are we proposing? We will phase out project and programme grants and instead, extend the model of fellowship support to researchers who are salaried by their university or research institute. " - Daniel Mietchen

"We look to the scientific community to bring us their best ideas." - looks like an invite for another round of Fantasy Science Funding (this time from the perspective of the Wellcome Trust). - Daniel Mietchen

Having been a Wellcome Trust International Travelling Fellow I've appreciated Wellcome's visionary approach to funding, and applaud their initiative here. This isn't a fantasy, this is Wellcome, and it will happen... - Richard Badge

I agree, I don't think this is fantasy. They will do what they say. Few, the light is finally dawning. - Jo Badge

For background on Fantasy Science Funding, see http://ways.org/en... . This piece shall also serve as a basis for an upcoming post on "What would research funding look like if it were invented today?" ( http://ff.im/9SvED ) which is intended to contain a general analysis of the funding situation, combined with some specific examples. This Wellcome Trust initiative could well be one of them, as could the similarly visionary speech of DFG President Kleiner (http://www.dfg.de/forschu... - unfortunately only in German and not yet backed by any concrete initiative). Further references on this are being collected at that other thread: http://ff.im/9SvED . - Daniel Mietchen

this looks bit but I don't really understand what it means in practice. You apply for a fellowship but does that not mean that you still are asking for the resources for a defined programme of work? If slightly less tightly defined? Will be interested to see what this means in detailed terms. - Cameron Neylon

Critique: An inward-looking scheme which must eventually collapse due to failure to recruit new talent (and lack of a proper career structure will speed that up). Bye bye UK science. - AJCann

I would suggest to them to do a significant part of the review process in the open, and to abandon it for some control group that meets basic eligibility criteria. - Daniel Mietchen

@ajcann cynic ;-) what do you propose instead then? At least they are trying to acknowledge that science is done by good people with good ideas, giving them the freedom to follow those ideas to their logical conclusions and not to a pre-determined end point that you can only guess at. - Jo Badge

But this strategy cannot be successful in the long term as it is anti-innovative and will inevitably degenerate into an old boys club. - AJCann

@ AJCann: It has already gone much of that way, and I interpret Walport's piece as a sign of consciousness of the matter and an invitation for constructive criticism, albeit he seems to be very concerned about the opinions of other funders. - Daniel Mietchen

The Wellcome trust is certainly one of the organizations that are most upfront (and sometimes brutal) in saying what they want and being forceful in maximizing their return on investment. I would certainly give them the benefit of the doubt to some extent on this one. But there is also something of a perception that it is something of a closed club. Partly this is down to a conscious decision on their part to stick with people they know are successful - which is a perfectly valid strategy for a private funder - but my impression is that they take their responsibilities for supporting a wider science community pretty seriously - Cameron Neylon

Yes, but not a viable strategy for UK science overall. It works for Wellcome as long as they can cannibalize the fresh talent funded by someone else. It won't work over the longer term is all (or most) agencies go down this route. - AJCann

@ajcann you'd rather have two strikes and you're out ala epsrc? - Jo Badge from iPod

Well at least junior researchers can apply for an EPSRC grant. - AJCann

Alan, let me ask the tough question - _is_ there a viable strategy for UK science overall? As in a strategy that views UK science in isolation? Having just got back from China I've got to say it certainly feels like we're toast unless we build our personnel and physical infrastructure in a bigger framework. - Cameron Neylon

Probably not at the present/proposed levels of funding and considering what is being asked. Developing economies regard fundamental research as a route to prosperity. Decaying economies seems to regard science funding as a drain. It would be possible to fund selected areas, e.g. sustainable technologies, healthcare, and focus limited funding, but in this proposal inadequate funding is still spread too thinly over too many areas. By looking inwards rather than recruiting new talent (black swans), there is a guarantee of long term failure. - AJCann

It's interesting how explicit that is in the China case. The spending of money to speed development as well as to bring people back to support this. Building a new campus expected to house 20,000 scientists in a five year timeframe just doesn't seem to bother them. At the same time the heirachical and top down nature of the society and organization of their science doesn't seem to support radical developments. Will be very interesting to watch though. - Cameron Neylon