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A room to discuss the "Science in the 21st Century Conference" being held at the Perimeter Institute Sep 8-12 2008 (
Michael R. Bernstein
I did some of the UI work that is in this presentation. - Michael R. Bernstein from Bookmarklet
Where can I find more information about this, is there a url? Thinking it may be useful for developing projects like ? - science3point0
Michael R. Bernstein
A colleague is asking about software to help him do qualitative studies. Can anyone give him some pointers?:
Michael, this might help -- the first is archeology specific, the second is the larger frame of the first -- at least it demonstrates data collection/distribution/re-use in a realm that might be considered qualitative..."qualitative" is a big word, though, and differs depending on discipline: 1) 2) - Mickey Schafer
Mickey, it isn't my field, but I'm pretty sure he means it in the ethnographic sense. - Michael R. Bernstein
If he finds an answer, I'd love to know. I have also looked for an aid to qualitative research, but not sure that it has the kind of structured data collection that makes for good software. Once data is collected and some of the thematic analyses are begun, then something like Excel becomes useful, but I suspect that is not what he means. - Mickey Schafer
D0r0th34, he says yes. - Michael R. Bernstein
D0r0th34, I'd like a pointer to such a product too. - Meryn Stol
Livescribe has been working on a transcription program, but I don't think it is up yet. Dragon speaking naturally has an excellent reputation, especially the more recent and pricey versions, and they are supposed to handle vocal variety better (most voice transcription programs are trained to a single voice). - Mickey Schafer
I am the colleague - and likely going to give it a go with TAMS Analyzer. Seems well suited for coding text transcribed from interviews and not too many features, just enough to code text adequately. See what happens this summer.... Thanks Michael for posting this question. - Mark Pugsley
Weft QDA (Open Source) - Pedro Jacobetty
Michael R. Bernstein
Need a pithy phrase for sharing science data, along the lines of 'Reduce, Reuse, Recycle'. So far, I've got 'Reuse' and 'Replicate'. Suggestions?
Maybe 'Refine'? - Michael R. Bernstein
"Refine" is nice. Maybe the LCD of refine is "reformat"? ;-) - Bill Anderson from twhirl
Hmm. Maybe. - Michael R. Bernstein
'Reformat, Replicate, Reuse' sort of works. Any other suggestions? - Michael R. Bernstein
Seriously, any other suggestions? - Michael R. Bernstein
I don't know if it has to start with the same letter but Open Data should be Searchable, Provable and Reusable - Jean-Claude Bradley
Record for replication and re-use? - Cameron Neylon
Interrogate, interpret and incorporate - Matthew Todd
Keep the suggestions coming folks! - Michael R. Bernstein
Jean-Claude, I'd like the words to start with the same letter, but I'm not going to be dogmatic about it. However, I will say that I strongly prefer that all three words be *verbs*. - Michael R. Bernstein
document, disseminate, discover - Jean-Claude Bradley
"solve, search, share" or "create, communicate, credit"? (credit doesn't really work - "evolve" would do but begins with the wrong letter). - Maxine
if allowed a fourth I would add "distrust" :) - Jean-Claude Bradley
Along those lines, my third c should be "credibility" not "credit", then. - Maxine
'reveal' - Jason Miller
Reminder: anyone in the world can now attend Science Online 2009 London without leaving the comfort of their pyjamas or computer on August 22nd: Please pass the word!
But the best part of conferences is the social hours -- those don't seem so fun sitting in front of a computer screen. - Donnie Berkholz
sure they are, you are all quite enjoyable to talk with even online, though attendance is always a great aspiration :) - Mike Chelen
Robin Lloyd
Do openscience people like or is there a competitor that is preferred?
alot of people seem to be happy using scivee, though youtube or vimeo seem reliable and powerful enough for me - Mike Chelen
Bora Zivkovic
Michael R. Bernstein
WebLab: a data-centric, knowledge-sharing bioinformatic platform -- Liu et al., 10.1093/nar/gkp428 -- Nucleic Acids Research - (via
Seems that the website ( is down. ::edit:: got through on a second try - Jason Winget
Hey, a real-time links has appeard on friendfeed - might be quite nice for live blogging
Might be, not overly convinced of the way it appears (seems to break up items) but will need to have a closer look. If viewing a single item it could be good for live blogging. - Cameron Neylon
headline-grabbing scientific reports are the most likely to turn out to be wrong -
Projects with bigger potential impact are more likely to be published in CNS or as headlines - but are also much riskier and more challenging. Not a surprise that more of these would turn out to need followup. That's why we need to have standards for reproducibility. - Shirley Wu
+1 Neil. Media creates unrealistic and sometimes faulty expectations. Maybe science blogging can ameliorate that!? - Shirley Wu
Where is the evidence that "the results are incorrect"? Not in this Economist piece. And not in the PLOS Medicine piece on which it is based. (That refers to clinical trials papers, but not to the scientific literature.) So where is the evidence for what you are writing in the comments above, or is it opinion? ;-) - Maxine
It's been a bugbear of mine for a long time. Let's forget the wrong part. Media tends to either go for doom and gloom, or complete overhyping - Deepak Singh
Ah, media, well I am not going to argue about that! But the link here is about the scientific literature specifically. As it is a media article, though, to quote Deepak, it must be going for "doom and gloom, or complete overhyping" ;-) - Maxine
Event on 24 Sept: Scientific Researchers and Web 2.0: Social NotWorking? from Scientific Researchers and Web 2.0: Social Not Working? forum on Nature Network London -
Second of British Library "Talk Science" quarterly cafe scientifique evenings. Timo Hannay talking. London, 6-8.30 p.m. I'll be there. - Maxine from Bookmarklet
If anyone (other than Timo!) is going to be at both events, that would be great, as you can summarise some relevant points from science21 for us on the 24th. I hope the science 21 meeting goes well, Sabine, it looks great from having just read your recent blog post update. (I like your response to the second private physicist!). - Maxine
i am hoping to do both. The bl one is the challenge but will do my best, - Cameron Neylon from fftogo
Don't forget they give out chocolate, Cameron (or they did for the last one, anyway). Makes it all worthwhile ;-) - Maxine
Chocolate and/or catching the last train from Paddington....hmmmm...anyway it's in the diary and the rest of the day is currently clear so _should_ work. - Cameron Neylon
It was interesting to attend virtually but the audio was challenging to make out - and virtual chocolate is no fun :( I microblogged a few items - Richard Akerman
Yes, Richard, but virtual chocolate really has no calories. That's the upside to an otherwise disappointing experience. - Jill O'Neill
They didn't give us chocolate this time;-(. We got "bags for life" instead. - Maxine
Sol Lederman
I'm curious to know who has heard of the OSTI Eprint Network, which accesses some 5 million Eprints, including the arXiv preprints? -
One hand raised - carolh
I'm interested to know because one of my goals of attending this conference is to understand how to better promote the Eprint Network and OSTI's products. Of course, everyone knows of arXiv but the Eprint Network, which intersects in a way with arXiv, is hardly known. - Sol Lederman
never heard of OSTI Eprint Network - I would have assumed it would have been integrated in WorldWideSciece? But I'm not a working researcher in any case, so I may not be the best sample. - Richard Akerman
Hi, Sol! I've heard of it. (Of course, OSTI is one of our member organizations) - Jill O'Neill
It's not ringing any bells. - Michael Nielsen
I've heard of it and tried to use it, but I find it very difficult to navigate and the results don't feel comprehensive. IMHO, Google Scholar has pretty much replaced this as a tool. GS indexes individual researchers' homepages in addition to repositories like ArXiv, which is exactly what OSTI Eprints does. - Hilary
Hilary- Google scholar can't access the Deep Web. There are some 4 million documents in the Eprint Network that are federated in real time, plus the 1 million documents from crawled sites. So, I would guess that Google Scholar would not access more than roughly 20% of what's in the Eprint Network. - Sol Lederman
Sol - do you know what the actual overlap is? I tried a couple of searches on eprints and couldn't find any documents that weren't also findable via Google or Google Scholar. Google has been making advances into indexing the "deep web" (http://googlewebmastercentral....) so technically Google (GS?) could index most or all of what is found in the eprints network. Also, there are many... more... - Hilary
My apologies if I sounded negative in my first and second comments--on the positive side, I have both heard of the site and used it! I realize you are looking for ways to promote the site-- I was researching preprint resources for biologists, so you should take my comments as being from a different point of view. If it helps, I think the site would really benefit from having a more user friendly search interface and display of results. - Hilary
Hi Hilary - No worries. All feedback is good, pleasant or otherwise. I've asked Dennis to respond to your concerns and have forwarded your comments to him. - Sol Lederman
The terminology is a bit confusing because eprints is also a specific repository software - when I read "A distributed search across E-prints on Web Sites and/or Databases" I still don't know if it means "across open access articles" or "across eprints servers". Also, how does this differ from OAIster - I guess the databases part is the differentiator? - Richard Akerman
I'm curious to find out what people mean when they use the word "eprint" and what they mean when they use the word "preprint"... - Hilary
John Dupuis
Chad Orzel
Science21 Highlights: Inclusive and Exclusive Definitions -
Comments on the Collins, Fuller, and Smolin presentation, and the evening discussion with Collins and Smolin. - Chad Orzel
Sol Lederman
I referenced the conference in a blog post. -
See the second to last paragraph. - Sol Lederman
Chad Orzel
Science21: Supply and Demand, Booms and Busts -
Blog post connecting David Kaiser's and Eric Weinstein's talks to the recent article suggesting an over-supply of scientists. - Chad Orzel
Chad Orzel
Science21: The Journal of Stuff I Like -
Blog post on a dinner conversation with Garrett Lisi and the Mendeley presentation - Chad Orzel
following the meme back futher a similar idea came from Neil Saunders and there was a discussion of the quality issues that come up here: and originally here - Cameron Neylon
Chad Orzel
Science21 Highlights: Open Access and Public Accessibility -
Blog post on John Willinsky's talk - Chad Orzel
Chad Orzel
Science21 Highlights: Peer to Patent and Government 2.0 -
Blog post on Beth Noveck's talk - Chad Orzel
Bora Zivkovic
Just started the ScienceOnline09 room on FF -
Sol Lederman
Proof from a NASA website that there's water on Mars -
Please keep this related to the Science 21 workshop. Thanks. - Michael Nielsen
Ok, will do. - Sol Lederman
Christina Pikas
I couldn't download the wmv for Collins - is the link broken?
I've asked the IT guy already on Saturday to check the link, but no reply yet. Will let you know if I hear from him. - Sabine Hossenfelder
Fixed, try again. Make sure to reload the page. - Sabine Hossenfelder
Thanks - Christina Pikas
Chad Orzel
A Longitudinal Study of Blogging Traffic -
Somebody asked about the distribution of traffic among topics during Monday's panel discussion. Here are some numbers. - Chad Orzel
John Dupuis
Science in the 21st Century reading list -
Compilation of books mentioned at the conference and from the earlier FF thread - John Dupuis
Thanks John. This is a long list, most of the books are new to me. I started by ordering "Here Comes Everybody". Any plans to amazonize or this? Or start a shelfari group? - Martin Fenner
If we're getting into the library space I highly recommend the CLIR No Brief Candle report - Richard Akerman
I put this in LibraryThing with touchstones - the process of which almost paralyzed my Mac Firefox 3 with endless beachball spinning - whatever processing LT is doing doesn't seem to like long lists of touchstones in Firefox - works much better in Safari - Richard Akerman
The touchstone behavior is pretty weird in terms of loading this many entries - I don't know how many you'll see - it doesn't seem to be able to load them all at once - I even split it into two postings and it didn't make any difference. UPDATE: It seems that The Cathedral & the Bazaar: Musings on Linux and Open Source by an Accidental Revolutionary by Eric S. Raymond was breaking it - maybe the & symbol is a stop symbol. - Richard Akerman
Jen Dodd
Ideas about future conferences like this?
I thought it would be good to open up a general thread for ideas for the future. - Jen Dodd
hold one in Ottawa so I can go to it? :) - Richard Akerman
I really like the format - long talks, with plenty of time for recuperating and talking in between. For me this has been an intense week, but not utterly overwhelming as week-long conferences often are. - Jen Dodd
I've also gotten more sleep here than in the previous couple of weeks, but that's what life with an infant will get you... - Chad Orzel
+1 on the format --- really like the breaks for conversation - Greg Wilson
it's been great following by FF - thanks! - Christina Pikas
+1 Christina -- I have really enjoyed the FF coverage, many thanks to all the busy fingers liveblogging! - Bill Hooker
+1 FriendFeed coverage - Richard Akerman
Those who attended: did you prefer the longer duration of the conference to the Friday-Sunday format? In terms of new information, networking, personal exhaustion, etc. - Martin Fenner
Martin - It's certainly more exhausting. On the other hand, I got to meet and talk properly to far more people this way than I would in a 2-3 day format. - Michael Nielsen
It would depend on the topic. This conference was wide ranging, a smaller focused meeting may work, but I have an idea about that, which I'll post in the next couple of days. - Paul Guinnessy
Another thought for a possible next meeting is to give it a different focus. E.g. science and politics. Other suggestions welcome. Should the idea catch on, one could have a different focus each year. - Sabine Hossenfelder
I personally don't like academic events on weekends. I think people have a right to a private life. - Sabine Hossenfelder
The duration didn't seem that excessive to me, but then the one conference I usually attend generally runs Tuesday-Saturday, so this wasn't too different. I have thoughts on future topics, but the baby is crying. More later. - Chad Orzel
I agree with Sabine. Weekend conferences and other work commitments wreck family life. You don't see your children much in the week because of work, what's the point of having them?! Working at home for a few hours over a weekend around domestic or other private commitments is one thing, being away yet again for the whole weekend is another. I wish companies and organisations would "get" this. - Maxine
I think there is a real potential issue here though as Eva points out - for many people this wouldn't pass as work - whereas for others it probably doesn't pass as 'play' or a hobby. I liked the format and the timeframe - and I did find it exhausting but in a good and intense way. The breaks to talk and discuss were very important I think. - Cameron Neylon
One aspect that I've been pondering, is whether the next conference should be in two locations. e.g. Somewhere in the North Americas and simultaneously, another conference held in Europe or Asia, using a similar setup to what we've seen at the Perimeter Institute. Eric's discussion on the impact of creating those live web cams so that a company could more closely tie two groups together got me thinking that this might be a way to broaden the discussions and get input from Asia and the Middle East. - Paul Guinnessy
+1 on the several locations idea. - Martin Fenner
If its technically feasible it would be great - issue with when you have drinkies though - given the time difference. But with a scattering of big screens and webcams hooked up to Skype or similar you might even be able to overcome the issues with the social parts being divided geographically - Cameron Neylon
The multiple locations idea is interesting-- as Steve Fuller's talk showed, it's almost possible to make that work. It would lose one of the nicest aspects of an in-person conference, though, namely the informal in-person interactions outside of the talks. - Chad Orzel
Topic-wise, I think there are a few issues that didn't really get covered that might be worth discussion-- intellectual property issues and the like are the main thing that come to mind. I liked the breadth of the issues discussed at this meeting, though, and wouldn't want to lose that in choosing a more specific topic. Also, I think that a lot of the projects discussed at the meeting are still in early stages, and some follow-up would be nice, to see how the landscape evolves. - Chad Orzel
Oh, and one final comment (I don't mean to Al Haig the whole topic, really I don't: Next year, have it a week earlier, so classes aren't in session, and I don't have to find somebody to cover lectures for me... - Chad Orzel
I would also be interested to have some talks from the librarians - there were many of them at the conference, but I don't think we had a talk from any of them. - Jen Dodd
+1 on several locations. Mark Tovey, Michael Nielsen, and I have been discussing how having more than one location with a joint FF room for communication might lead to really interesting cross-fertilisation; having a virtual window to the other conference as well would be even better. The talks wouldn't necessarily all have to be shared - having different talks in each location would increase the richness of the interaction between the two locations, especially if the talks are recorded PIRSA-style. - Jen Dodd
A meeting at which librarians tend to hold forth on related matters is ASIST annual. Next one coming up in October. - carolh
Jen - Yeah, I agree it would have been good to have some talks from librarians. - Michael Nielsen
We should have at least hijacked one or two of the sessions! - John Dupuis
I thought we had a presentation from a librarian-- isn't that what Gerry does? - Chad Orzel
Sol Lederman
Information professionals: Please spread the word about writing contest
If you're an information science professional, if you play one on TV, or if you have friends, students, or colleagues in the field, I'd appreciate it if you'd tell them about the writing contest in my Federated Search blog at this URL: The winner gets a trip to the 2009 Computers In Libraries conference from anywhere in the world plus they get to present their winning essay. - Sol Lederman
Bora Zivkovic
Submit your entries for the third Science Blogging Anthology -
Mark Tovey
"Books in this space that you'd recommend?"
sixty days and counting, stanley kim robinson - Paul Guinnessy
Vernor Vinge's Rainbows End? - Richard Akerman
Here Comes Everybody by Clay Shirky - Jen Dodd
Standage: The Victorian Internet - Greg Wilson
+1 Here Comes Everybody - Richard Akerman
"Wealth of Networks" by Yochai Benkler - Deepak Singh
+1 Rainbows End - Jen Dodd
+1 Wealth of Networks - Hilary
"Here Comes Everybody" by Clay Shirky; anything by Lawrence Lessig; "Wikinomics" by Tapscott and Williams (interesting, but worth skimming some bits), "Crowdsourcing" by Jeff Howe is pretty good, from the journalist who coined the term (Google for the author's website, where it's available in draft); I'm looking forward to Tara Hunt's book about Whuffie, to be released shortly; +1 on the Vinge; +1 on the Benkler; +1 on the Tovey :-). - Michael Nielsen
Everything is Miscellaneous by David Weinberger and +1 to Here Comes Everybody - John Dupuis
The Future of Reputation by Daniel Solove and The Big Switch by Nicholas Carr are both good news/bad news books that are worth reading - John Dupuis
+1 big switch - Deepak Singh
Community by Peter Block - Jen Dodd
Ambient Findability by Peter Morville - John Dupuis
Dreaming in Code by Scott Rosenberg is a terrific book about how hard it is to build good programs, building on Greg Wilson's talk. - John Dupuis
Mancur Olson's 1965 book "The Logic of Collective Action" describes a class of economic problems that (from a modern perspective) includes the question "Why don't scientists adopt web 2.0?" It's fascinating, and well worth taking a look at. - Michael Nielsen
Christine Borgman, "Scholarship in the Digital Age", has an enormous amount of useful detailed information. - Michael Nielsen
+1 Scholarship in the Digital Age, it is very comprehensive on the more political and social aspects, but it doesn't cover the technology aspect much. - Richard Akerman
The Cathedral & the Bazaar: Musings on Linux and Open Source by an Accidental Revolutionary By Eric S. Raymond - Sol Lederman
Sabine Hossenfelder
Paul Guinnessy
final discussion
M: instead of considering a triangle of science, society and technology, suggests its a two way link between science and society - Paul Guinnessy
Question: What is the most striking thing that you've learnt in the last week? - Paul Guinnessy
Question 2: How will Science21 impact your career or professional life? - Paul Guinnessy
Chad: Hadn't thought about open access, its not about access to papers, its about access to what the papers say that's the problem. John Moslinky talked about these tools in open access journals that allows you to find related articles that can explain topics, language in the papers - Paul Guinnessy
Chad: Impact of John Willinsky's talk about Public Knowledge project making papers accessible to people - Cameron Neylon
Chad: hadn't thought about the open notebook idea, and its sounds like an attractive idea, a very practical way to stay in touch with the lab while out of the office. Previously I had never thought about it, now keen to investigate. - Paul Guinnessy
feedback from the floor: what about people stealing or reusing your work? Chad, not really a problem in his field - Paul Guinnessy
more of an education problem that a technology problem. That's the problem. (Wilson) - Paul Guinnessy
Cameron: "The primary person you are making access to is your own" Security is hard, the rest of the tools are not, so if it makes your life easier, I think people will move towards this model faster. - Paul Guinnessy
David: Surprised by looking back at his experience in physics, 10 years ago met a person who posted to arxiv after communicating via email for months. Couldn't complete papers until he had flown and met in person. Is there some way the dense communication that you have in person we replicated through technology? David is not sure. David was shocked that Cameron was advising a student miles away from where he's based? - Paul Guinnessy
Wilson: Is this a generation thing? - Paul Guinnessy
Cameron: there is still some tangible experience you get in person, but perhaps a mixture of all these tools (blogs, email, etc..) mixed together could replace this experience. - Paul Guinnessy
Wilson: 30 years ago it would rude to answer a phone at dinner. Now technology has changed the rules because we fragment our time differently that in the past. - Paul Guinnessy
M mentions the friend feed - Paul Guinnessy
Cameron: depends on what your expectation are. 2nd life your expectations is low because its crude, but the ability to see where people are looking etc.. can be valuable, even if its really just a bunch of text commands - Paul Guinnessy
Garrett et al's paper is - Greg Wilson
J: emailing tex files back and forth eventually becomes unproductive (see his talk). Wiki and IM is better. Took one away, it doesn't work, but synergy is good between the two. - Paul Guinnessy
Michael gives examples of Tapscott and Williams leaving Skype on all day; "Don, are you there?" - Mark Tovey
David: timescales are important. - Paul Guinnessy
IM is very low latency but also low bandwidth - Mark Tovey
Cameron: different media have different timeframes. e.g. C is a day late on a google doc paper, reason is because he hasn't been nagged by email or phone. - Paul Guinnessy
Wilson: grabbed the third floor, and it was several weeks before the employees realized that there was a new group. - Mark Tovey
Wilson: one of his start ups is on two floors which cut commuication by 90%. They installed 24/7 webcams in all the coffee room. Eventually all the staff had all their meetings in this room. When they expanded again it took several weeks before people realized that the staff had expanded to another floor because it just looked like another room on the system. Wilson is very keen to see this in a lab. - Paul Guinnessy
Wilson: potential experiment -- sheet of virtual glass between two labs - Mark Tovey
Greg - what was the company? - Jen Dodd
David: Need to encourage outreach to the public. Previously his had been in old media, now he may consider new media. - Paul Guinnessy
I would enjoy reading David's blog! - Jen Dodd
garrent: pleased that there was interaction between groups. Thought that journals were dinosaurs, but after seeing Timo's Nature talk, realized that they were trying to facilitate communication between scientists. - Paul Guinnessy
Harry's blog would be interesting as well! - Cameron Neylon
garrent: what is science socially? Never thought of science as a social construct before. - Paul Guinnessy
garrent: pleased at the interactions outside of conferences - Paul Guinnessy
+1 on Harry's blog - although I could imagine it might sometimes be a bit too close to the bone for physicists to hear what they're really like :) - Jen Dodd
T: the one thing that was missing what impact from people outside science. It would be nice to see how people use tools etc.. in their field and want lessons we can learn with that. - Paul Guinnessy
Wilson says it might be useful to invite the person who created Toronto's freedom of information act that means Wilson can't use gmail to contact students. It would apply some legal framework to the privacy concerns connected to scientific data, research, and the spread of knowledge. - Paul Guinnessy
s/Toronto/Ontario/g - Greg Wilson
Wilson: US navy and marine corp are doing good stuff on learning stuff quickly, might learn from that experience. - Paul Guinnessy
Sabine: this workshop was an experiment and I'm glad that there was interactions between the participants considering their varied background - Paul Guinnessy
I suggest concentrating on the audio. If that can be cleaned up then that's good enough. You can always add photos to the audio cues to get a more visual representation. - Paul Guinnessy
Agreeing with Paul... - Michael Nielsen
Paul Guinnessy
What should the next administration do to improve crowdsourcing in science policy
Greg Wilson's minutes from the discussion: - Chad Orzel
I don't think it should be restricted to crowdsourcing --- lots of other interesting ways to apply things discussed at this conference to public policy problems. - Greg Wilson
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