good transit system.. still waiting for ours in quasi-socialist britain! It's quite sad, most forms of modern transit originated/pioneered in Britain yet we have the worst in the developed world :( - alphaxion

Don't forget Japan! - Mona Nomura

Japan has the best in the world from what I've seen.. Only system I've ever seen that apologises heavily for even a minutes delay! Tho, always remember that the Japanese system is a private company, not state run! - alphaxion

What countries in Europe would be on this list of "all other socialist countries"? - Brian Sullivan

alphaxion: I guarantee you that Britain's is worse than USAs. - Robert Scoble

Guess the lack of a good transit system and universal health care proves that the USA is not socialist ... yet. - Rene Wirtz

@Scobleizer Thanks to a socialist government once upon a time in Saskatchewan, Canada has a health-care system today. - Jaffer

@robert I know Britains is worse than the USA.. expensive and piss poor. We created the railway system, yet we've fucked it up through a constant swapping of private, state, private, state then private once again. Along with the total lack of investment that goes with it while state and the money grubbing greed of private use. It's obscene, £70 to £120 just to travel from Leeds to London. Disgusting! - alphaxion

"old socialist countries", i'm not so sure or very old!!! I can take the example of France !! we are not socialists since more of 10 years ! - Alice Cordonnier

They just did a study of extending DC's metro system down into Fredericksburg which is 50miles south of it. While it came out to be several billion dollars, the idea of it was cool to see just because it had been considered. Would be wonderful but will never happen. - Dean Clark

Mass transit here is pretty bad, 75' to the bus and when I get downtown I have to walk a whole block. And I only have 4 times to choose from. - Clarence Westberg

@alphaxion: You are correct, the privatization made British Railways from one of the best to one of the worst. Strange thing is, even after seeing things go downhill in the UK, the Dutch government decided to semi-privatize its railways, making it a lot worse. Luckily, Holland is a small country so effects are going to be minimal. - Rene Wirtz

Isn't "according to conservative talk radio" fairly unreliable? :) - Louis Gray

+100 Louis. - Alex Scoble

@Brian: from the top of my head: Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the UK, Ireland, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Greece. And now of course, the former Eastern Bloc countries, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia. - Rene Wirtz

There's enough dumbing down of America without repeating the stuipid socialist accusations. - Rod Bauer from twhirl

Phoenix just opened up a light rail system and ridership is 30% higher than they predicted. - Francine Hardaway from twhirl

Rene -- all those countries are socialist in your mind? What countries in Europe or elsewhere would be classed as non-socialist? - Brian Sullivan

@Brian: not only in my mind, though, these countries are all based in socialist principles, even though some countries don't have a socialist government per se anymore. Countries that are not socialist are: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Romania, Turkey and Bulgaria. - Rene Wirtz

Francine: light rail in Seattle has been a compleate boondoggle. It's not about predicted ridership, it needs to be about how many are served for how much per person. - Christian Burns

I would love to have a decent light rail system here. Our only option to get anywhere is to drive. We live in a gorgeous patch of farmland, and the traffic is starting to smog everything up. - Karoli

The lack of good rail system of any kind in the US is a travesty. I've never understood why that was the case. One would think you could be proud of a good rail system. It has nothing to do with being socialist of otherwise. Every time I go to Boston (to pick a US city), I enjoy hopping onto a train and just getting to places - Deepak Singh

regardless of the underlying intentions (socialism, liberalism, etc.) hasn't the time for universal healthcare and mainstream mass transportation finally come. I mean dammit people, stop the excuses and get some work done. What we need is the ability as a populous to prevent our government officials from getting paid if they fail to do their jobs...sessions over, and there are still bills on the table; sorry but I guess you don't get paid. - Bob Blunk

Christian: Over what period of time do you amortize the cost? A light rail system is a long, long term investment. Taking into account projected growth in the area alongside the longevity of the system, I'd imagine it's quite the bargain. - Karoli

Robert: I am starting to agree. We have a broken system that relies on insurance tied to employers. That must change. - Christian Burns

I think the biggest problem in the US is the sheer size of cities. New York and Chicago are the first and only ones to have adopted a subway system early enough on to actually offer viable public transport. In a city like Atlanta, there's 2 subway/lightrail lines, and there's over 5mio people and there's a lot of commuting. - Rene Wirtz

Great article about self-employment, freelancing, and health insurance http://www.city-journal.org/2009... - Karoli

Karoli: I live in rural area, transit just doesn't fit into our lives. Central planning to fix a decentralized problem. - Christian Burns

Rene, American cities aren't really that large, and definitely carry small populations. Tokyo does just fine with a wonderful rail system. The challenge is that to add transit now would take a lot of effort to fit into existing infrastructure, but IMO it has to be done - Deepak Singh

Loving trains in Japan and loved the trains when I lived in Portland. I would kill for high-speed between Los Angeles and San Francisco, so let's hope it comes soon. Decent but long article with some good points about US and high-speed trains here: http://is.gd/mrYY - Ken Brady

@Deepak: I disagree that American cities are not that large; traveling from one end of Atlanta Metro to the other is almost a 2 hour drive. There are countries in Europe where a 2 hour drive means crossing borders into another country. I do agree that a mass transit system must be added to a lot of cities. And now is the time. But, I do know that there is going to be a lot of resistance: land owners not willing to sell land, property owners who don't want something invasive close to their properties, developers that still base all their plans on using cars and last but not least, people are just not willing to sacrifice their car for public transport. - Rene Wirtz

Rene -- do you have some sort cite that backs your assertion about which countries in Europe are socialist/non socialist (or based on socialist principles -- whatever that means). What about Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Russia? - Brian Sullivan

actually, the malaise in the british rail system dates to when the state took over them during the 40's. A lot of stations and routes were loss making but paid for by the more profitable. When the government took control they began a systematic shutdown and withdrawl of funding from the system until its eventual re-privatisation. The only problem is that the system is in such bad need of funds that private companies now running it don't want to invest and are simply milking it for all the money they can get - alphaxion

@Brian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - socialism and the industrial revolution almost went hand in hand in Europe. - Rene Wirtz

I'm holding out for those awesome European family friendly parks and museums - Erin @queenofspain

I'm just pissed I have to listen to this brainless sheep-driven socialism drivel for the next eight years. Baaahhh. Baaahhh. - AJ Kohn

@alphaxion: So, at least the government kept whatever lines were more or less profitable up and running, doing maintenance and planning. After privatization, the maintenance and planning part got dropped, since it is by far the most expensive, without having a clear ROI. Private companies are always gonna be looking at the bottom line and with a vast operation like a country-wide infrastructure to maintain it's not gonna look good. - Rene Wirtz

Rene -- I don't see any mention of most the countries in your list in that article. Is that the best information you have? - Brian Sullivan

Operating a profitable mass transit system within the US is difficult because of your wildly variable population density. Improving your archaic zoning system would be a good first step. - Steven Cains

Um..how come there's no mention of Amtrak? The challenge isn't just getting govt. to set up a mass transit system but also getting folks to use it. There's a lot of competition from alternative forms of transportation like planes and automobiles. Let's not forget that every time the gas prices go down, public interest in using public transportation goes down as well. - MiaD

@Brian: I'm sure I can find all of them, but I'm too tired and lazy to google at the moment. You can believe me or not, either way, the US is not even near to what they think is socialism. - Rene Wirtz

Child care for new moms. Doctors who pay house calls. Three months vacations. Sign me up. - Martha

We're building light rail in the Dallas area. The problem is getting to the rail stations and finding a place to park. They closed the route that went right past our house - on a main road! The parking lot is clogged with cars from cities to the north that don't pay transit taxes. We can't use our own trains! - Julie Barrett from twhirl

Do socialist countries also get high-speed rail? The US could really use a good high-speed rail network. - KyleHase from twhirl

we have been trying to get light rail in Kansas City forever. - Rodney Taylor

that's just it tho, "British Rail" as it was when it was nationalised barely put any money into the system at all and only grudgingly did any maintentance. No upgrades were made, no investment in new rolling stock. It was a total shambles. Stations fell into disrepair and entire routes were left to rot or were ripped up. - alphaxion

(There is a story making the rounds of a pool reporter on Air Force One who asked President Obama, "Are you a socialist?" ... we offer some context for that reporter, and any others that might be lurking here on a beautiful Sunday evening.) http://www.dailykos.com/storyon... - i thought this was really cool, and thought that it might settle this subject once and for all - - Chris Heath

chris - way to avoid any position at all. +1 for a completely empty statement. You implied that a 0% cap gains rate created a China that is a net creditor nation. Or would you like to tap dance out of that position ad well? - Brian Roy

Hey, you decided to go ad hominem... I just pointed out the error I your thinking... Not sure I was in attack mode. Care to answer the question? Is China being a creditior nation a direct result of a 0% cap gains rate? - Brian Roy

Were some comments deleted? Can't figure out what Brian Roy was responding to. - Morton Fox

nah I posted on the wrong thread. My bad. - Brian Roy

Hong Kong's transit system is something too! :D - Michael Forian

I'm from Europe and now am living in NYC. I find that NYC public transit (subways, buses, taxis) is actually fairly decent by my European standards. Sure, it's sometimes dirty and crowded, but it gets you to places and runs with good frequency. If you live in the city close to the transit, you don't need to have a car at all. - Jaanus Kase

Ha ha.. wonderful perspective - even the Democrats are so far right of centre in European terms to be ever be called Socialists. - Ian D. Nock

@Ian: *highfive* I keep saying that, too, but no-one believes me! A lot of Americans equate the Democratic Party with socialism, while I was taught in school that in the US you can choose between right and extreme right. - Rene Wirtz

Believe me, Robert, you don't want these. I'm from Hungary and I know what I'm talking about. Social healthcare sucks... Even if you live a totally healthy life, you pay the same insurance as those who smoke and drink all day long. (And get the same service) - Berci Mesko, MD

people who have not experienced socialized services do not get it. They Idealize them! - Leonard Boord

@Berci Mesko and those who drive and those who eat too much or badly, exercise too little, have sport injuries, unprotected sex, have dangerous and stressful jobs etc if we start thinking in those terms not many people would be entitled to healthcare at all. Personally I prefer not to judge and have universal healthcare combined with decent education and prevention plans - M F

I am from the government I am here to cure you.... - Leonard Boord

Just a question: Is it really true that the current system in the US means that people who take care of themselves and use little healthcare don't subsidize those who are less healthy? Given the high costs of basic insurance I find that almost impossible to believe but it would be interesting to know some facts especially when these 'socialized' vs 'whatever we call it' comparisons are being made. - Robin Barooah

@Robin: as far as I know everyone has Medicare tax withheld form their paycheck even if they are not insured throug Medicare. (I may be wrong though.) - Rene Wirtz

@M F: I understand, but having universal healthcare means you get an average service no matter how hard you work in life. Nurses, doctors have an incredibly low income compared to those working in the US. The whole system is far overloaded and nobody has time for you. I know there are serious problems in the US healthcare system as well, but I don't think you really want socialized medicine. Though, you should give it a try yourself. :) - Berci Mesko, MD

From what I have experienced (I grew up in the UK, and now live in the US) neither 'ideological extreme' is particularly great. There are some aspects of healthcare that make it difficult to run from a purely capitalistic perspective - i.e. accidents happen to even the most careful people, demand can potentially be infinite, etc, and at the point of use there is no market and consumers are vulnerable... - Robin Barooah

...and there are aspects that make it difficult to run from a purely 'socialized' perspective - i.e. a lowest common denominator service may limit quality of life unfairly, those who take care of themselves end up responsible for those who don't, demand is potentially infinite, metrics are hard and medical decisions become politicized etc. - Robin Barooah

To me this means that our tools are too blunt to solve the problem as one thing. Either we need more sophisticated tools (which I don't see), or the complex problem needs to be broken down into simpler ones that we can solve with out blunt tools (which I think is eminently possible). I believe that Obama is sophisticated enough to recognize this. Whether or not he can implement it given the vested interests he has to work with is the real test. - Robin Barooah

In the 19th century, the US built an incredible rail system that tied the nation together, all with private money. The entrepreneurs are now called "Robber Barons". It's little wonder that private enterprises doesn't want to step up again. - Robert Hafer

@Berci Mesko I live in Britain, I'm familiar with a national health service free to the point of service, with all its faults.Having said that I don't want to put my health and trust in the hands of a company that thinks about its profit first, I don't want them to do unnecessary procedures when I have plenty of money (as has had happened in some private clinics in Europe) and deny me care when I need it the most. And I don't want anyone else to be in that position. - M F

what is interesting -- how many people have opinions on socialism/socialists, while context they mention reveals they have either little or no clue about true socialism and how those historical examples of *socialism* were far from schoolbook definitions... and then-love-now-hate from ex-little-cousins in Central Europe looks like they hasn't learned lessons of history, rather go the opposite way (hint - negation is not productive and helps only in very short term). - A.T.

@M-F and Berci: some countries in Western Europe have adopted a two tiered system: 1) base care, including prevention, pharmaceuticals and dental, for everyone (everyone pays for it, everyone can benefit from it) and 2) for an extra premium you can add more specialized items to the base insurance, like private hospital rooms or extended dental plan or prolonged manual therapy. This way, everyone has the same base insurance coverage and for those who can afford it, they can get a better or broader coverage. - Rene Wirtz

@alphaxion Europe is a lot more compact than the US. so don't hold your breath about getting a transit system for everyone. Health care is so expensive because of insurance. Our economic system is a house of cards - one that is on the verge of tumbling down. More government is never a solution; it always adds to the problems. Real solution is growing food & shopping locally, supporting communities, decentralizing. That is in OUR best interest but not the best interests of the global economy's plutocracy. - Internet Strategist

Transit is partially affected by population density, exclusive of politics. The western U.S. differs greatly from Europe, though I will grant that European nations discourage auto use more, thus incentivizing mass transit. - Ontario Emperor from fftogo

I should clarify that I was talking about intercity travel, not intracity travel (though the same issues apply to southern California - who's gonna build a rail line connecting Ontario to Orange County?). - Ontario Emperor from fftogo

Time for high speed rail from San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles, too San Diego. - ka3drr