A significant part of Nokia's success stemmed from making sturdy cheap phones. This market is gradually diminishing because of two reasons. People who thought of it as a necessity are now making the move to cellphone as a utility, searching for phones with an encompassing internet and enterprise experience, where Nokia has had no success thus far. (contd.) - Parth Awasthi

The second is that the largest markets for these phones were the emerging economies, India and China. As the consumer capability increases in these countries, we find users willing to spend more on convergent devices. Besides, in the recent times, these markets have been flooded with other low cost manufacturers who are only focused on that segment. They offer cheaper phones with competitive functions and this reduces Nokia's leverage in this zone too. - Parth Awasthi

Parth: yes, and I'm really glad I visited Broadcom last week. The fact that they are putting three chips onto one tells me that more "iPhone like" features will be coming to much lower-cost cell phones soon. Will Nokia do something dramatic this week? I hope so. - Robert Scoble

It's really a shame Nokia's not been able to engage the US like Apple has, because, like you said, their devices are better engineered and have better hardware. They also run open source Symbian, so your development efforts don't have to be blessed by Apple. It's no mystery, though. Just look at the size of Apple's US marketing budget compared to Nokia's. This is similar to PC vs. mac, and do we really want to live in a mac only world? - Mr. Gunn

They're trying to expand to Japan, too. The first thing they need to do is open Symbian, to get the apps going like iPhone and Android! - Mona Nomura

@Mr. Gunn Thats a great argument to the whole PC vs Mac debate. A lot of people I talk to think Macs are the end all because they are so easy and such, but do we really want everything to have to be blessed by a single company? - Tyler (Chacha)

If they go sexy with netbook like features where the device is even more independent/stand alone, then they will stay in the game. - Tony

Mr. Gunn: sorry, I don't agree with you. Apple's EXPERIENCE is 1000x better than Nokia's. Not even close. Symbian so far sucks compared to Apple's iPhone OS. I can personally demonstrate dozens of reasons why. The Web browser isn't even close. Google maps? Not even close. Until Nokia gives me a much better experience the engineering doesn't matter. - Robert Scoble

Nokia needs to make the philosophical transition. The problem is one of perspective. Apple is an user experience obsessed computer maker designing a communications device. Nokia (and not just nokia) is a communication device maker trying to add computing like features. People focus on the touch screen, but it's really this difference in approach that results in the difference in experience. - mikepk

Guess I'll just keep my comments on FF, I tried posting on Scobelizer but either it's in moderation or got eaten not sure which :) - mikepk

mikepk: I'll go check to see if Akismet blocked your comment for some reason. - Robert Scoble

I have a Nokia N95 and an iPhone for UK and US networks respectively. After a couple of hours using the Nokia, I wanted to throw it out of the window, it was so horrible. Yes it has a great camera and video, but web browsing, email and the phone on it suck compared to the iPhone. - Sally Church

mikepk: I pulled your comment out of the spam bucket. Now do you see why I think FriendFeed is going to win on the Web? :-) - Robert Scoble

I got my first cellphone back in 1992 - a motorola. I have had a few Nokia ones, but they've always been basic. The first smartphone I got was a Microsoft SPV back in 2003, which wasn't too bad. I am more than happy with my Blackberry Curve now though. It does about all that I need, and I like having a keypad, as I use it more for SMS and brief emails than I ever do to make phone calls. - Ian May

Thanks, I wonder why I got flagged? I agree on FF though, I've become a real fan of FF over the past couple of months. I'm really curious what they're going to do for revenue. - mikepk

This comment sponsored by Seagate, maker of the world's top storage devices. Join Seagate on FriendFeed here: http://friendfeed.com/seagate. - Robert Scoble

You mean FriendFeed couldn't do something like that and make money at it? - Robert Scoble

Most hardware makers simply have not come to grips with the fact that they need to be spending MUCH more money on the software for their devices - and that spans across the entire consumer electronics space. The software for 99% of consumer electronics is an embarrassment to the profession. - invariant

I think if FriendFeed can reach a critical mass, and the ad market doesn't contract significantly, advertising may work out for them. I'm curious if it will have the level of mass appeal necessary though. Advertising on friendfeed would require the balance between audience size and ad targeting/specificity. If they use too much of their valuable attention data, though, they may have a negative reaction (ala Beacon). Like I said, I'm curious which path they take :) - mikepk

@invariant agreed, I think the iphone represents a tipping point of focus from minimum necessary software to support hardware, to more commodity hardware supporting advanced software in the mobile (and other) spaces. - mikepk

Robert, I agree that user experience matters, but I think consumer choice matters more. If either Apple or Nokia (or Microsoft) won their respective wars, it would be a loss for the consumer. Either way it would suck, and it certainly seems to me like it would suck more if the secretive, closed source option won out. - Mr. Gunn

@Mr. Gunn - I agree, I hate to see one company dominate in any area. But I'm not buying a G1, for example, no matter how much I'd like to see them compete. It's a crappy phone, and Android will never compete with iPhone because apps cannot be natively compiled (how open is that anyway?). - invariant

Very interested to see what happens here, thinking on my next smartphone purchase - Martha

I wasn't talking about Android. Nokia bought Symbian and released it as open source. Anyone can write software that will run, natively, on Symbian devices, without needing the hardware manufacturer's permission. That is what open means, and why the iphone can never be more than a toy. No matter how many marketing dollars they spend, it still won't become a good idea to let the hardware manufacturer control the content on the device. Who does Apple think they are? Sony? - Mr. Gunn

I think it is more accurate to say that, with the open-sourcing of Symbian (something they seem to still be working on at Nokia), you can find Symbian on other phones without restriction. With regard to applications, it will depend a lot on the built-in rules for recognition of safe applications, usually involving signed code. Whether you can roll-your own apps and have your own phone install them will depend on the how the phone was set up by its vendor/manufacturer, seems to me. I agree that it is superior to the traditional Apple approach of taxing developers. Not sure why they keep finding this irresistable in Cupertino, although sheer number of iPhone apps suggests its not a problem. - Dennis E. Hamilton from twhirl

and here i was just about to get an e90 tonight when i saw the countdown on BGR and then got this message via twitter. :P saved? we'll see... - henry