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Robert Scoble
Robert Scoble
Mike Arrington is leading the mob. Read his anti-FriendFeed rant here and tell us whether he is wrong or right. Oh, and welcome to the mob:
June 28 from iPhone - Comment - Share
He'll be back...he's just going to milk this for all it's worth first. - Garin Kilpatrick
Do not feed the trolls. - monkeystick
I think he is looking for page views and a way to get the mob to come to his real time event on July 10th. Brilliantly played Mr. Arrington! - Robert Scoble
Maybe it will bring some more people to FF who haven't been on it which is a good thing. - Mike Bracco
"FriendFeed today is like Syphilis in 1495." -Arrington. I'd say that's taking this a bit too far. - Garin Kilpatrick
I understand objectively there's strengths and weaknesses, but I also find that this discussion is teetering of the verge of irrelevance. Can you make it clear to me (in seriousness) the value from this friendfeed versus anti friendfeed arguement? Are we looking forward to the next tool? Or to making improvements to friendfeed? - Malcolm Bastien
Mike: I doubt it. - Robert Scoble
Wow. Maybe I should go burn the TC shirt that LG and I liberated from TC headquarters a few months back in protest. Reminds me of his other recent rant about Facebook (http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...). Mike definitely doesn't hold back in how he expresses his opinion through his blog posts. Regardless of whether he's looking for traffic or not, he clearly hasn't made a genuine attempt to interact with the community of folks who aren't trolls here on FF. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Do you think it was specifically an anti-Friendfeed rant, Robert? Some of the comments that poured in after the "Laporte Incident" were pretty horrible. If I was on the receiving end of that, I'd think I'd be feeling like a mob was after my head. Also, don't you think that his point about people feeling more comfortable to "talk hate" using their own/real names is a good one? - Andrew Terry
Wow that's kinda harsh, I wonder what brought that on... - J. Abdul-Qahhar
I don't understand why Mike is wasting time and effort on those death threat comments from the idiots that posted them. Why is he giving them any real credit? They should be dismissed. They should be ignored. They're the grown up versions of youtube commenters. - Lise
The thread with Aaron last week demonstrates that the FF community is reasonable and self-correcting. FF also provides fine grained controls so that you DON'T see what you don't want. Mobs are simply human nature. Dissapointingly so. Mike may as well call for the abolition of Town Halls, Community Clubs and the like. - Roberto Bonini
As long as Mob leaders like Laporte keep it together no trolls get hurt. - Garin Kilpatrick
Arrington should go crawl back into his cave - Daniel Lazarides
I have a feeling Arrington is developing a relationship with FF analogous to Dvorak's with Apple. ie. piss off the faithful (get traffic), blog about the nasty community members attacking you (more traffic), eventually reverse yourself and please the community (more traffic again). Lather-rinse-repeat. - Michael R. Bernstein
If Mike doesn't like mobs he should open a private room here on friendfeed. - Robert Scoble
that was some badly strained argumentation by Arrington - FAIL - William Harryman
I feel the same way about this argument that I do about people who complain about television. Stop whining. If you don't like what's on, change the channel or turn the TV off. FF, like any online community, is based on elective participation. If you don't like what's happening, move on to something else. Also, people take what's written in these forums WAY too seriously. If you can't take the occasional insult, get off the web and go find something else to do with your time. - Kevin Pedraja
And last i checked, Leo is NOT a mob leader. Or a Troll leader. - Roberto Bonini
Andrew: mobs have always formed online. FriendFeed does allow them to form faster but Arrington should go read Digg and YouTube comments for a while. The stuff I have seen here is pretty easy going compared to those. - Robert Scoble
Go to a forum with lots of members and ask a noobish question and watch the mob flame you into the middle of next week. - Mark
Michael: bing! Arrington is the best at whiping up crowds. Anyone remember when he called France lazy? - Robert Scoble
"We're going back to reruns. F**k you guys I'm throwing you all off. Mike Arrington is the most trollish person ever." - Leo Laporte - Danny Minick
Andrew: I think everyone here generally agrees with Mike that those types of comments are out of line. Can't blame Mike for feeling touchy about them. - Roberto Bonini
Danny that's the irony in all this. Arrington is the King of The Trolls! Leo called him the biggest troll "in the world" a few times. - Mark
I used to read techcrunch and even comment once in a while. Mike Arrington has been consistently losing credibility with me these past few months, and now has forfeited the last bit. I was going to comment over there, but it really has ceased to be worth my time. I'm even sorry I clicked over to his article. Interesting that I wouldn't even have known for it if not for this post on...which service is this again, oh yes, ...friendfeed. - Jim Hearts FF
It seems to me that Mike wants the attention or he wouldn't have post this. He just doesn't like it if it doesn't go his way. He sort of like the guy who finds a bees nest and pokes a stick in it. They finally calm down and they poke it again and are surprised by the results - Kim Landwehr
Jim: welcome to MobFeed. :-) - Robert Scoble
I'm in my Godfather. - Thomas Chai
He's got some points, and I give him credit for a heck-of-a 'creative' post, but this is fairly typical human behavior stuff. I think it's funny that the he says, "the system is breaking under it’s own weight. It is not sustainable." because he got flamed out by some people with the chutzpa (or stupidity) to do it from an account that identified them personally. - Chris Duffy
Kim: Arrington is smarter than that. He knows there are a lot of people here and he is about to monetize the real time web with a conference. - Robert Scoble
Whats this conference you are refering to Rob ? x - Mark
Yep a online service that accounts for a small percentage of internet users will destroy everything Arrington holds dear. Syphilis? - Andy Foster
Kim: this is all about Arrington setting his conference up well. I will be a part of it from London. - Robert Scoble
[sigh] i guess Arrington just can't stop himself. - MikeAmundsen
"I’m going to pick on" - words say it all - Paul Rawlings
Anyone have a link to this real time conference he is doing? - Mark
Speaking of realtime, why hasn't Arrington or O'Reilly grabbed the title "Realtime Web" for a series of conferences ala Web 2.0?--maybe you should first Robert! - Michael Metz
I guess it's working - Ken Morley
Mike: Arrington is taking advantage of the fact that WE can't stop ourselves. - Robert Scoble
Exactly, Robert. - Ken Morley
Well, that explains a lot Robert - Kim Landwehr
What was that link again? Lol! - Ken Morley
is buddyfeed realtime? - Tyler Gillies from BuddyFeed
so he's not calling for technical solution to a (potential) behavior problem...he's just stirring the pot and setting the table for conference...No, we can't stop ourselves can we. Effective troll is effective - Chris Duffy
Arrington is @replying you on twitter robby - Mark
a) learn to use Block b) like twitter is sooo much better :/ c) waste of a read.. I thought Techcrunch did actual stories on stuff, not rants. Guess I was wrong. - Tim Hoeck
Well, the worst thing we as the FF community could do is prove him right by "attacking" back and name-calling for what he's said. Fanning the flames justifies his opinion. Hey, if it makes people wonder what going on with this "FriendFeed" thing and they come check it and realize it's not at all like what he was saying...all the better. So, let him have his opinion and spotlight. - CAJ, somewhere else
@Robert: IMO, Arrington is doing the same thing he always does: setting himself up for some abuse from others. it's so sad to watch. in this case, he'll likely get what we is asking for, too. *again* - MikeAmundsen
Probably should have said fein surprise - Kim Landwehr
thx Johni, - Mark
IMO, He's wrong. And, as mentioned, tossing gasoline on the fire by pretending to be outraged by such supposed mobs while deliberately inciting them. - Bob Morris (polizeros)
@arrington just wrote that I should propose tools to slow down the mob. Yes, we have those in Iran and China. I would rather have the mob. - Robert Scoble
I think Arrington just wants to destroy a medium that he can't control. - Nathan Cooprider
I really thing that this was more about online mobs with FriendFeed as an example rather than specifically about FriendFeed. Yes he uses FriendFeed as the example, but I don't think the points he makes are related solely to FriendFeed. You could easily replace FriendFeed with Digg or Huffingtonpost. Some place where people gather in mass and you can easily see a mob mentality grow. - Michael Koby
Robert!!!!!!! :) - Myrna
Of course he is right. When the wrong people come together than everything can happen. Same is true if good people. Even a revolution (specially Wednesday). People on FF and similar services have lots of power. Can be used to change the world! - bishoph
seeing the link to that conference that he's hosting next week and seeing this post give me a new level of respect for his craftiness, although he couldn't have done it w/o you Robert. - Chris Duffy
Yes Chris, he is a sly old dog isn't he? Tickets might be going too slow or something - Mark
The association with Syphilis is kind of weird. I think any public figure gets hate mail, electronically or otherwise. - Ace
I think so. - Chris Duffy
@Michael Koby, I'd agree with you (to a certain extent), if the article wasn't...specifically about FriendFeed. And about an event that occurred to Arrington personally, no less. I'd have a lot more respect for his argument if he'd spend the time to find more examples. This just looks like someone who's had a flamewar turn on him that's fighting back with his own bullhorn. - Ken Kennedy
Bishoph: or a mob can break glass and burn buildings and hurt people. What do you want to use your mob for? - Robert Scoble
He probably just read a book on syphilis. When I read a book on something I like to make links to the topic to make me appear well-read and smart. - Mark
He (as usual) has some valid points. FF is a great conversation tool but when it becomes a chat room, it's not up to the task. Just as in public, I tend to avoid these mobs here on FF. 58 comments on this right now is fine but 1000 is useless. I know you don't agree, but IRC is much more useful for that. - John Rubier
It would help if Mike actually understood how he could shape his FriendFeed experience. There are such things as blocking and hiding. It also seems like those who can dish it out but not take it run screaming from FriendFeed - which invites *real* interaction and conversation. Yeah, it's sometimes unruly, but that's reality folks! If you want the *dated* version of arm's length, yell from the mountaintop and tune out the opposition, then you can crawl back to Twitter or hide behind your blog's moderation queue. - AJ Kohn
I can't make it to Arrington's event on July 10th (I live in Boston..and the event is in SF), but I hope it gets a lot of coverage online so that the rest of us can learn from what is shared :) - Sam Houston
Look what services like Twitter and FF did for Iran. Just a medium to share and discuss (real time) information. Of course the used words in the blog are misleading and obviously rant (a troll post to start a discussion in real time :-). - bishoph
(Robert Scoble) -- "this is all about Arrington setting his conference up well. I will be a part of it from London. " -- next time, put this at the beginning of your post, Robert. I'm NOT interested in being a part of this childish crap. If you have actually have a problem with the post, you shouldn't either. If this thread is to help TC drum up word-of-mouth about a conference, that's pretty manipulative of your audience. I keep hoping to get something more from you on these threads, and am mostly disappointed. - Ken Kennedy
Could argue that MobFeed was more useful because it had private rooms and things. - Mark
@AJ: Arrington knows how to use FF. this thread is evidence of that. his willingness to pimp himself out - to invite this kind of negative talk - just to promote his own interests is what is so disappointing. - MikeAmundsen
Lazily, i'll c&p my post from TC..Yeah, this is Arrington taking a personal incident and trying REALLY hard to universalize it. And the syphilis analogy only makes this look needier and less applicable. FriendFeed aggregates conversations and connects sub-streams of the cloud more efficiently than any other current service. Once you try it, you like it. I works. It's efficient. The observation that people, e.g. "mobs" form and combust around ideas, incidents, opinions, events etc. isn't distinctive or unique to any online community. THAT's a universal human trait. - Thom Kennon
@Mike: Perhaps he understands that he can drum up talk, but I don't think he's been here enough to actually understand it's true power. So, yes, Arrington essentially is a FriendFeed spammer or Social Media Lout. - AJ Kohn
Ken: it isn't my strategy and I am not profiting from it. - Robert Scoble
"Mobs" have collapsed police states, authoritarian regimes, and given rise to countries like are's that even allow us to have this conversation today. To suppress them is like revoking the right to assemble and petition, removing the peoples voice, and is not a sign of a free and open society. Turn on the news and remember 99% of the world haven't a clue who Mike Arrington is. - Shaun Hess
@Robert: do you think Arrington is using you to promote is own agenda? - MikeAmundsen
Mr. Arrington is just too young. This online behavior will not subside soon. AOL Chatrooms, Usenet discussions, Compuserve bulletin boards, listserv flame wars.... The more things change, the more they stay the same. 15 years of Law and Order and broadcasting reruns on other Channels. For a Technology News guy it's pretty pathetic. What's the news? Where is the new idea? - Birgit Pauli-Haack
Mike: he is using our mob behaviors, yes. Do I feel used? No more so than when Aaron and Steven did the same thing. - Robert Scoble
@Robert: yep. - MikeAmundsen
I think there are many factors working here: 1)rapidly changing community norms 2) expansion of these services from small homogeneous groups who create them 3)poor communications skills 4)poor social skills 5) a lack of inhibition due to the virtual environment. - Francine Hardaway from BuddyFeed
If there was ever any doubt that Arrington seeds the controversies that surround him, let this post put that doubt to rest. His goal is to incite passions because he knows that anger drives engagement more than agreement does. He's merely the Ann Coulter of the nerd world -- nothing more, nothing less. - Sprague D
Mike knows that we cannot help ourselves, we simply must talk about his post and send him lots of hits and maybe sell a ticket or two for him. - Mark
@Sprague: "He's merely the Anne Coulter of the nerd world..." LOL +1 - MikeAmundsen
Well put Francine! - Bluejeanslady from twhirl
Most of what Arrington does stings of a boy trying to look like a big boy in an adult world. Maybe when he grows up he'll be better. I think the Blue's Traveler song Hook was about him. - Matthew DeVries
I'll probably get beat up over this but this is a huge case of the Tech Crunch pot calling the Friendfeed kettle black. I've notice that Arrington and the normal Tech Crunch crowd are really hard on people. More than once someone will ask a question that most people know the answer too and its like blood in the water. Posters come out and blast them and take delight in it. I thought that TechCrunch was trying to be a community? - Matt Martin
Is he the Anne Coulter of tech or the Perez Hilton of tech? I'd say the later, because like Perez, he doesn't make a dime unless someone else gets hurt, he has a hissy when the camera looks back at him, he over-reacts to perceived "danger" against him. - Matthew DeVries
@Robert: your response is far too similar to what you used AGAINST Tim O'Reilly and other members of the SUL, IMO. If you know/suspect that Arrington is using this to promote a conference that you're going to attend; a conference focused on a technology realm that you make your living off of...then of course this helps you, just like being on the SUL helps Tim O'Reilly, even if he's "not changing what he says based on it". You didn't find that answer from Tim satifying, and I feel the same way about yours. - Ken Kennedy
Robert: Didn't you say above that, "this is about his conference. and *I will be part of it from London*" but later that "this isn't by strategy or for profit" I feel kinda duped, man. I think everyone else does/knows too, but like lemmings we'll continue to play. This is my take: http://twitter.com/Spincha... - Chris Duffy
It is difficult to take Michael Arrington seriously as a tech analyst -- he's inflated his self-created brouhaha into a mentally disorganized blast at Friendfeed. A very emotional guy. Friendfeed is a self-organizing platform. One shouldn't complain about getting mired down in nasty exchanges that are easily avoided with unsubscriptions and blocks. Arrington's mess was self-inflicted. - Sean McBride
Chris: I am an unpaid speaker at the TechCrunch Real Time event. - Robert Scoble
How are Mike's passive aggressive "op-ed" blogs on TechCrunch also not a form of e-mobs? In other news: welcome to the mob *grin* - Rene Wirtz
Tim O'Reilly doesn't pay to be on the SUL, Robert. - Ken Kennedy
::glances and moves along:: - Geoff Schultz
And Arrington seems to read a book, declare himself an expert, and then fire off a blog post about how his "enemy" du jour is like the thing in that book. Next week we're going to hear about how Friendfeed is like the cancer killing his mentor that he visits on Tuesdays. - Matthew DeVries
Ken: WTF? - Robert Scoble
As a matter of fact, I think Twitter is much more suited to mob creation than FriendFeed. - Miguel Caetano
I work on my mob behavior. I engage, but try to be civil, helpful, or educational:-) this is a learned behavior after I got my butt handed to me a few times. - Francine Hardaway from BuddyFeed
Yes Matthew, alot of people (myself included) read a book on something and feel we must reference it to make us appear smart. I did the same thing with a book on the black death. its all nonsense of course - Mark
@Sean: from my POV, not only was Arrington's mess self-inflicted, it was a purposeful act on his part. as is this one. - MikeAmundsen
Miguel: yeah, over on Twitter I saw hundreds of people saying Jeff Goldbloom was dead when he wasn't. - Robert Scoble
arrington: @Scobleizer perhaps someday when you are sitting in your house with a police car parked out front to protect you you'll think differently. - Mark
C'mon Robert...do you seriously not grok the similarities between this argument and your complaint about O'Reilly/SUL? This is free publicity for a conference that you're speaking at that will help make your name more notable in your area of expertise. - Ken Kennedy
Mark: perhaps I will. - Robert Scoble
I need to read up a little more on the other parties involved. The only person I follow of this group with any real regularity is Leo LaPorte. However, from a listeners point of view, Leo grossly over-reacted to a legitimate question ( and I love Leo's work ). Would Larry King shut down the show just because he was asked something he was apparently sensitive about? ( I realize this isn't the point of this particular discussion and Leo & Mike worked things out ). I do however feel, whether it is Facebook, FriendFeed or Twiiter people tend to get overly impassioned -- more so than in real life -- over simple things.. iPhones, Palm Pres, blogs, etc. I myself was sucked into a dumb discussion between Robert Scoble, @Ed on twitter and some hippy DB and it was nothing I would have wasted my time on in "real life". Online communities like the ones I mentioned start off great and quickly wind down that path of High School mentality or if you will Mob Mentality. Do I think that Arrington has a point? Yes I do -- to an extent. And he is entitled to his opinion just like we all are. Is he a Troll? I don't know enough about the guy to make that argument. I like to form my own opinions. - Sean E Brown
Must have been a serious thread if the police give you personal protection - Mark
Remember a couple weeks back when Twitter convinced the world the California supreme court reversed their non-reversal of Prop 8? - Matthew DeVries
No robert, what I pasted was Arringtons reply to you on twitter - Mark
Mark: I know. - Robert Scoble
Robert, please don't pay attention to M.A. He does not deserve it - Luca Conti
Robert: It's all good, man. Regardless if paid or not, you knew up front what this was about and helped get the ball rolling. I don't fault you for it, but in an ironic sort of way, the lack of up front knowledge, that came out later about this being for the conf, can produce the exact kind of behavior Arrington is decrying and citing the "need" for new tools to address. It's all claptrap, but digress. I'm going outside. - Chris Duffy
Arrington is just ticked off at the response he was getting after he attacked Leo .. yeah I really think he attacked him personally. Attacking a man's credibility and integrity is a personal attack in my opinion. Then he removed the techcrunch feed from friendfeed ..so what let him .. I agree with the other commenters..He is an attention whore plain and simple then compares Friendfeed to syphilis? I don't want to know what he thinks of the people that actually use FriendFeed...He's digging his own proverbial grave and it won't be long before techcrunch goes down and it'll all be his fault. - John Blanton from twhirl
I really think Arrington has a skewed view of FriendFeed. Most of the venom against him on FriendFeed has happened during Gillmor Gang podcasts, which were most recently running on Leo Laporte's TWiT network. For whatever reason, a large percentage of Leo's TWiT fan base hates Arrington. Not just disagree. Hate. They've also said pretty awful things about Steve Gillmor, Dave Winer, etc. So Arrington, will be on a podcast, stir things up, and then check into the FriendFeed chat, which is full of the TWiT fan-boys bashing him. He isn't seeing the normal day-to-day flow on FriendFeed when things are much more civil. - Mike Doeff
Notice how Mike is totally absent on this thread. He should be here defending his article, defending his analogy to syphilis and letting us all know how dumb we are for not seeing things is way. Mike obiously sees no point to having this discussion. I count 2 tweets from him on this subject. - Roberto Bonini
@Mike Doeff If he did see the civility of FriendFeed he wouldn't have compared it to syphilis. - John Blanton
Please note, Robert...I don't think you're being all devious or anything. I'm just pointing this out to give you another angle on the O'Reilly thing. I actually think Tim probably thought "WTF" as well. And while I DO think that both of you are being a teeny bit naive thinking that the attention doesn't affect what you say or do...that's the case with pretty much all attention. I don't have to worry about it b/c I don't have any. *grin* If I did, it would affect me whether I liked it or not, or realized it or not. - Ken Kennedy
Scoble: I see what you did here. :-) - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed
I'd put a witty comment here, but Arrington isn't worth the requisite brain power that would consume. - Steven Perez
Arrington is a douch. - Peter Kruit
Can Mike read this thread without a FF account? - Mark
Ken: Arrington is on the Suggested User List and he did not disclose that. Jason Calacanis says that is worth $250,000. I guarantee you that speaking at a conference won't get you $250,000 worth of followers. - Robert Scoble
Anybody remember Usenet newsgroups? They still exist, and lots o' tech people still use them (i still answer questions there). There have been some remarkable flame wars there, and they are all threaded. I don't see how different that is from FF except FF has a prettier interface. - RobinDotNet
Mark: yes - Robert Scoble
Peter: so are you. - Robert Scoble
Robert: Thank you ;) Don't get me wrong. We also need people like that. They make for interesting discussions. - Peter Kruit
Hah! Arrington removed my comment about him not disclosing that he is on Twitter's Suggested User list. - Robert Scoble
Lets give 1 sec to the Arrington point at his last tweets ,cant we have some kind of control on the stream ?cant FF add better moderation tools ? - Johni Fisher
Robert: You're stirring the pot yourself and why? Because Arrington comapred FF to Syphilis? I have nothing against a discussion about the issue at hand but you're lead-in to this was a bit on the point of the article.. It's just a session of Arrignton bashing, replace the keyboards with pitchforks and you're all on your was the TC headquarters to string up the guy. - Sean E Brown
"on your way" rather - Sean E Brown
And again I am comment on a Scoble thread, but to misquote Cassius " The fault, dear Friends, is not in Scoble or Arrington But in ourselves, that we are underlings." - Kim Landwehr
oh I forgot IMHO - Sean E Brown
Sean: you are right. - Robert Scoble
Sean: the thing is I have seen mob suppression and I don't like it one bit. - Robert Scoble
And I have had my car damaged and life threatened by a mob after the 49ers won the Super Bowl one year. - Robert Scoble
Ah, the weekend dust-up. ;-) - Chris Baskind
@Robert: gotcha. I think I understand where you're coming from. I disagree, but it's no big deal. - Ken Kennedy
Robert: but who is suppressing it? An article isn't going to to stop mobs, not all mobs are good mobs (lol). I suppose we all have our quirks that get us up in arms, I am in no way innocent of that. - Sean E Brown
I declare the Dead Horse to be Beaten sufficiently. - Sean E Brown
@Johni Fisher: FriendFeed is a social network, not a community or a forum with administrators and the like. But I reckon that nested conversations could be useful ;-) - Miguel Caetano
This inspired me to listen to the Mob Rules album by Black Sabbath :D - Per
It's interesting to me that the very thing Arrington talks about happens here. Where did good taste and treating other people with respect get off the track? I mean seriously...have you looked at how many people are on this thread making nasty comments about Arrington? He isn't the only one that gets that treatment, we all do if we state our opinions publicly. Now, I'm not against making a case for one side or the other but is it necessary to attack the person? I don't get that. What's wrong with simply saying I disagree and stating why? One thing, some people no matter what the venue need to be heard more than they need to listen so they attack. It's a power struggle and it isn't getting better, but neither do I think it's worse. - Sheryl
Sheryl: yes, this is bloodsport. Same thing happens at baseball stadiums every day. - Robert Scoble
If your able to get syphallus from FriendFeed then I'm clearly using it wrong - Davis Freeberg
Sheryl: The nasty talk against Arrington is earned. Arrington frequently slams FriendFeed (which get under Robert Scoble's skin and compels him to do these sorts of posts, but that's another topic) and then cries whenever (a) no one pays him any attention or (b) people talk nasty about him. - Steven Perez
Robert: I can't take things that seriously. Life is to be lived not destroyed. Why don't we talk about the value of the mob? Why don't we talk about how amazing social networks can be? - Sheryl
Steven: I disagree with you :) That Arrington has an opinion and states it no more gives you or I a right to tear his person apart than my simply waking up every day. Argue against his opinion but name calling has no benefits. - Sheryl
Sheryl: You're entitled to your viewpoint, but I've been here long enough to see how Arrington operates. And nothing I've seen from him lately has changed that opinion. He deserves every bit of scorn he gets, because he delights in these sort of poop fights. - Steven Perez
Here are some features that might slow down mob-like participation: 1) move the comment link to after the last comment, rather than right under the item, to encourage reading the previous comments before commenting. 2) once a threshold has been reached, remove the comment link entirely, so you have to go to the item page (which displays all comments) before commenting, to discourage formation of instant pile-ons from within the live stream. - Michael R. Bernstein
Steven: You don't have to change your opinion of Arrington. At no time have I suggested you aren't entitled to your opinion. But what benefit for you is there in calling him names? We all have opinions others disagree with. You didn't call me names and yet for all you know I'm a horrible person (I'm not) I think the world is better for opinions and different thoughts. It stretches us to see other viewpoints. If as you state Arrington name calls FF that his issue, and to turn around and do it to him because gets no one brownie points. - Sheryl
Mike comparing FF to syphilis is pure, shameless analogy abuse. But say what you will about Mike, his arguments are interesting, and I do read them. And if anyone on this thread wants to organize a torch and pitchfork mob against him, let me be the first to say I've got a billion more interesting and important things to occupy my time. - James Hernandez
Sheryl: I said it Zee's thread and I'll say it here - it's another Arrington poop fight. He throws enough of it on the wall to see what sticks, gets Robert Scoble riled up, and a mess of blog posts and forum fights ensue. SOP for Arrington. Meanwhile, he reaps the benefits of notoriety and links back to his site, all without ever setting foot in here, because we're all going over there to see what he wrote. - Steven Perez
Neither of these are particularly innovative, BTW. I can suggest reading Derek Powazek's excellent book 'Design for Community':http://www.amazon.com/exec... - Michael R. Bernstein
I know Arrington sometimes smears himself with blood and tosses himself into the feeding frenzy. I have no problem attacking his opinions when I disagree. Or attacking his ego when it's out there. I do find myself more and more put off by people who make every attack personal. It goes to excess. And I hate the specious argument that "I've seen him blah blah blah" and he deserves it. Personally I've seen Arrington be a real cluetard many many times. Countless. But I've seen him say a lot of things I agree with too. Threads like this, and the mod mentality that gains momentum simply puts me off and makes me withdraw. And it empowers me to write off people mentally and "mob drones" who might otherwise have solid, intelligent opinions. Put on a mob t-shirt and join the blood sport without some reall substantial argument that's constructive and adds value, and I'll like consign everything you say to the dead pool for a long time. That said, this thread holds no interest and I'm off to constructive conversation. - Ken Camp
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it go something like this: 1. Arrington dislikes Scoble. 2. Scoble likes FriendFeed. 3. Therefore, Arrington dislikes FriendFeed. - Stephen Mack
Steven: I would only ask this, who is inciting who if Arrington squawks and people fluff their feathers? I don't know Mike Arrington, I know who he is and I have read enough to know he frequently says things that are inflammatory, but I don't call him names publicly. Where is the value in that? Can someone show me why that is useful because if you can, I may change my tune, though it's highly unlikely! ;-) - Sheryl
Stephen: I don't think Arrington dislikes me. - Robert Scoble
it's all entertainment in the end :D - Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Ken: ;-) Dork! LOL (I can call Ken names cause he's my SO) hehe - Sheryl
And at the risk of encouraging flames in my direction, I pretty much agree with Arrington's post. I agree with him about 10-15% of the time. - Ken Camp
Sheryl: I may be a dork, but I'm your dork. And I only engage in this petty crap to try to find some intelligence among the noise. Like always, there's some here. Filtering the noise within a thread isn't easy. I know Robert loves FF filtering, but this is an example of when NOTHING but the filtering can find any value. - Ken Camp
Ken: even filtering can't help some threads! :-) - Robert Scoble
Robert: shall I bop him on the head? hehe - Sheryl
Robert: Agreed. There really needs to be a way to tag trash threads to be expunged. Terrible that this drivel will exist forever. - Ken Camp
Ken: only if you search for it will it matter for long. - Robert Scoble
Robert: True but wasting arguably infinite disk space to store it forever is still waste. I don't like waste in general. - Ken Camp
Sheryl -- what kind of response do you think Arrington anticipated when he compared Friendfeed to syphillis -- *at length* (in case we missed the point)? Describing him as a jackass strikes me as a measured and rational response. But he is best ignored, to be sure. - Sean McBride
Sheryl: there's a small bit of problem with your logic. By your logic, everything that Ann Coulter (thanks, Sprague D) says is not deserving of scorn, either. - Steven Perez
Steven I don't say it's wrong to be scornful. I do still think it's wrong to call names. It feels wrong to me to validate that in any way. Defending position is a whole other thing. To enter the fray and retaliate has no good consequence. - Sheryl
Steven: Scorn for stupid ideas is different than personal attacks. Although comparing Arrington to Coulter is an interesting and entertaining thought. ;-) - Ken Camp
Sean: I don't think it matters what Arrington's goal was. In the end, even if Arrington calls FF names, to do so in return accomplishes what? - Sheryl
Sean: If we take the passion and emotion out of the argument, Arrington's comparison to how syphillis evolved to survive, to the FF mob power, I think there's some good analogy inside there. Sure it's ugly, but I wouldn't say it's inaccurate. How many mobs have we seen called into play in the past few weeks over some perceived wrong. Yesterday it was someone's AT&T bill and the open acknowledgement that the mob following induced the carrier to act. Masses of people have power. Mobs can turn on a dime and are uncontrollable. - Ken Camp
On that note, I am off for a break, out to run errands, and finished with this particular thread. Have a good afternoon all. - Ken Camp
Sheryl -- sometimes it is healthy to call out a jackass as a jackass, and then move on to more productive topics. It puts a period on the nonsense. In general I agree with you: the more civil the conversation, the better. - Sean McBride
This whole thing reminds me of the "How to tell someone they sounded racist video" http://www.youtube.com/watch... I think we can all learn something from that video. Keep to the subject, instead of calling names and generalizing from what a person did. If you want a good discussion on this subject don't call people names. Instead of wasting time in here where M.A says he will not come why don't you guys go over to TC and calmly tell Michael how you felt about his post... Talk to him, instead of about him. Most of us here don't know Michael Arrington the person offline. We don't know his situation and why he reacted like he did. What we do know is what he wrote. Why don't we show him the better mob? - Rasmus Lauridsen
Because, at the end of the day, Arrington is against mob mentality ... unless he can direct the mob's direction. - Steven Perez
The real problem with herd mentality is that once understood, it can be effectively deployed to link bait, generate PR in the form of online discussions, and to promote social media sites and/or events, without people even being aware of it. - Mark Davidson
I'm particularly baffled - better yet - amused by how the media gurus quickly turn into poor, weeping poopflinging angry things once they find themselves prodded by the pointy end of a mass of people (which they then call "a mob" elegantly skipping the "lynch" part). Groupthink - yes, sometimes - even herd mentality - but this has all to do with how people are, and nothing with technology, so I really don't get the hate on FF (Syphilis? gimme a f-in' break!). - dario
also: the guy is obviously oblivious of the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory and has no clue about what goes on in "the mainstream", say on Reddit, /. or that cesspool that are youtube comments. FF is pretty much a small, happy place with tea, pastries and fancy embroidered cushions compared to those. - dario
Dude, TC deleted my (constructively thoughtful albeit critical) comment in the article thread --- and it keeps eating my attempts to repost. wtf?!... - Thom Kennon
Thom: Arrington did the same thing to me. Welcome to the mob. - Robert Scoble
Ken Camp - I agree completely with your post - this whole thread went from a discussion on Mobfeed and into something similar to a 1990 BBS rant - Kathleen Forden
This is really getting to be ridiculous. Arrington admits that people can be nasty at Twitter and other places, but says FriendFeed is worse, basically because all comments can be seen in one place. Blame FF? Why don't we start with blaming TechCrunch, because a lot of people started out disliking him due to what he writes there. I suspect that if Arrington didn't delete so much of what was posted there, we'd see a REAL mob. - MiniMage, sheeple of FF
Dario: If Arrington's blog post heightened your emotional state, then his mission was accomplished. If you clicked the link to Arrington's blog, then his mission was accomplished. If you commented on Arrington's blog, then his mission was accomplished. If Robert Scoble started a thread on FriendFeed about Arrington's blog post, then his mission was accomplished. If we are still commenting about Arrington's blog post, then his mission was accomplished. If someone else makes a blog post about Arrington's blog post, then his mission was accomplished. Arrington was deploying herd mentality to his and FriendFeed's advantage and judging from the results he produced, it was well played. He exploited several devices and while I view the piece as being manipulative, apparently, most people view his blog post as simply being inflammatory. - Mark Davidson
Mark: that was my point, actually (sorry it didn't come through too well) - basically if you go prodding a hive with a stick sometimes you get stung - it doesn't reflect too well on you if you get all uppity afterwards. So, I agree with you 100% on the manipulative part. - dario
The same thing happens on Digg, and it's been around for years. It's not a problem with the service(s), it's a cultural problem. We've all been desensitized to some level or another, some extremely. - Blake
Dario: Don't feel bad. I got caught up in it too. It's human behavior. As human beings, we respond to stimuli. When executed properly, we just can't help ourselves. Our emotions get stirred, we take action in the form of a response, we become engaged because we've invested emotional energy, we talk amongst ourselves, etc. Politicians, public speakers, bloggers, television and radio broadcasters, segment editors, etc. all take advantage of this to capture our thoughts and attention, and hopefully get us to click an ad, drive web traffic, remember a brand, or sit through a commercial. - Mark Davidson
What a bunch of echo chamber nonsense. - Jason Nunnelley
I can't disagree with that Jason....... Except, it's only an echo chamber when it's good/self aggrandizing. When it's ugly and destructive like this, I think the more proper term is devouring our own young, but the sentiment is right on. - Matthew DeVries
Skipping past the other discussion that's already happened on Arrington's post (I'll catch up in a minute), I just want to say that TechCrunch has officially joined my list of sites I won't visit anymore. Great job alienating a large group of readers, Mike. - Jason Huebel
Matthew, I just expanded my opinion on Mike's post (linked by Scoble). I think it's calculated drama. Either that or really, really silly. I'm giving everyone the benefit of doubt here and assigning more intelligence than the latter opinion would allow. - Jason Nunnelley
Why would anyone take anything that Arrington writes seriously after his complete bullshit stories about Last.fm - which had real, economic consequences for the company, and which are still being repeated as if they were true by people around the web? He's perfectly happy to whip up the mob when it suits him, but when it bites him back he suddenly becomes Mr Socially Concerned. - Ian Betteridge
How many times was Arrington's name mentioned in this post, thus reinforcing his brand through repetition? How many people reading his name were in an emotionally heightened state? Hmmm. lol. - Mark Davidson
When someone comes into your house and poops on your coffee table, it's a bit difficult to look at it rationally and ask what the merits of such an act was. - Steven Perez
"It was windy in here, so I needed to weigh the papers down" - Matthew DeVries
He actually removed my comment. No kidding. I didn't wish him ill, suggest he should died or anything of that nature. I just made a coherent and short comment about his tactic with as bland a set of language as possible. Wimp. - Jason Nunnelley
THIS is why i fucking hate FF. "Read his anti-FriendFeed rant here" WHERE? damn it, friend feed always makes a monkey out of me. where's arrington's rant? i dunno. i'll seach for arrington's account and see if i can find it. i'll prolly be back in five minutes to say "oh, i'm so stupid... i found it at [INSERT FUCKING URL HERE]" thanks for exposing my FF ineptitude, Scoble. - Mark Hartwell
Mark: it's the first comment on this thread. It's a link. Then come back here to read the 200 comments. - Robert Scoble
Mark, what are you talking about? It's right there. - Matthew DeVries
Mark: I've used this device hundreds of times. Most people figure it out pretty quickly. - Robert Scoble
So he just wants to delete all counter comments? How very Supreme Leader of him.... - Matthew DeVries
He hasn't deleted mine yet - Rasmus Lauridsen
Comment removal is standard practice at TechCrunch, and it really doesn't matter if the comments are polite. He'll leave a few counter-comments in (enough so it's not obvious he's blocking counter-opinions) and delete the rest. Perhaps his lack of control of the conversation is why he doesn't like FriendFeed much. - Ian Betteridge
All I said was that he should thank Scoble for the link, but he shouldn't be surprised if these tactics result in trollish drama queens following his work only to bring a teen girl styled smack down to his next slumber party. It wasn't even that caustic, definitely not "mob" language. - Jason Nunnelley
Matthew: he's probably deleting all comments he perceives as being from the "MobFeed." I think it's funny. Mike once told me he's an entertainer, and this is evidence of that. - Robert Scoble
aha http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... got it ... second comment actually. i agree with jason calicanis ... you need a freaking masters degree to work friend feed. thanks, Robert, BTW .. the url gets shortened, so even though the title of the article is in that URL, one doesn't see it when scanning the comments. - Mark Hartwell
Mark: no, it's the first comment. The first line are people who clicked "like" on this item. - Robert Scoble
The problem, though, is that Arrington is an "entertainer" with the power to seriously hurt companies and careers in the web industry. And he does it, too. - Ian Betteridge
Mark - Ff's interface is about as simple as it gets.... *rollseyes* - Matthew DeVries
So, he deletes my comment about participating in adult conversation and leaves the guy's comment that calls him a douche? Mature. I'm starting to withdraw my prior benefit of doubt. - Jason Nunnelley
Ian: he only can hurt you if you let him. If your marketing campaign relies on TechCrunch then your marketing campaign is bad and needs a major rethink. I've had Valleywag and Techcrunch aimed at me before and it never hurts. - Robert Scoble
Robert - In the same way that Andy Kaufman was an "entertainer"? - Matthew DeVries
To be totally fair, i dont think it is that bad. We have had quite a few articles on Techcrunch and on on a whole they seem to be a nice bunch, very accomodating and understanding. - Paul Rawlings
Although it is unpleasant to go through. - Robert Scoble
I thought it was quite a funny read, I don't think I can take it seriously... it is almost as if someone spat in his face or something. - Paul Kinlan
Robert, he can't hurt me - but think of Last.fm, whose reputation was hurt and which lost subscribers because of a completely false series of articles that Arrington posted. And he's never really acknowledged that he got it totally wrong, preferring to hint that "there's no smoke without fire". That's what I mean about serious damage. He has the power of mainstream media, without the vaguest notion of a conscience. - Ian Betteridge
FF interface: simple? perhaps. Intuitive? not so much. The FF fail is strong in me. (and scoble was right, the url IS in the first comment) what looked to me like the first comment was just a list of "likes" that's a Digg concept, right? - Mark Hartwell
Ian: if Last.fm has value it will cruise right through a wrongful attack. I'm not saying it's right, or pleasant. - Robert Scoble
Mark, go away, you're just making things up now..... It's simple, intuitive, and elegant. You're just not very bright. The fact you can't suss it out is a reflection on you, not the site. - Matthew DeVries
Yeah, Last.fm will survive - think of the man-hours it took dealing with the mess that Arrington created. A lot of time and effort went into cleaning up a mess that Arrington gleefully made. And again, no acknowledgement from him that he was in the wrong. - Ian Betteridge
Matthew: stay nice. It's not that easy sometimes for newbies. - Robert Scoble
Or English isn't your first language. If that is the case, then yes, it can confuse, I apologize. - Matthew DeVries
Matt, your comment on Arrington's post is funny dude. I give it ten minutes :) - Jason Nunnelley
I just read this entire post. I'm so sorry I wasted my time. Maybe we should ban the use of cell phones and IM just in case. Like FriendFeed, they also make it too easy to talk to people. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
I'm not trying to show him up with it. Just a personal experiment for myself (my post on the TC thread) - Matthew DeVries
This Last.fm thing, this is what drives my Perez Hilton comparison. He got to create a hurt, damage something, and while Last.fm will probably whether it, nothing bounces back to TC. In fact, it grew their market, and put more money in Arrington's pocket. - Matthew DeVries
on such a beautiful sunday, how on earth could anybody be paying attention to arrington's opinion - he is a self serving dolt... - mike "glemak" dunn
ok, i've read arrington's post. and most of this thread. the syphilis analogy was probably just something that mike has been wanting to paste and share since he read that book. the laporte / arrington "war" lasted all of 10 minutes. what that exchange DID expose was a lot of pent up anti-arrington hate. why do so many people think arrington is an asshole? simple, he IS an asshole. if i were the guy who managed to tweak that response out of Leo Laporte, i would probably cancel a few engagements while i took personal stock. "where did my life go wrong? how can i fix this?" mob rule? on MY internet? It's more likely than you think. - Mark Hartwell
ok Robert If you are going to remove mike's comment couldn't you at least remove my reply to him also? Now it stands out like a sore thumb of dumbness in a sea of irrelevance. :-P - Rasmus Lauridsen
Well he was right about the Mob! I'd delete my FF account but what's the point? For delivery of content its great, but for hanging out, I don't have the skill or patience to go toe to toe with a Mob of spoiled intellectuals. - ZuDfunck
Rasmus I haven't removed any replies on this thread! - Robert Scoble
yay then he removed it himself. Mission accomplished :-) - Rasmus Lauridsen
who cares. - Stalyn☂
"...it [friendfeed] will be forced to evolve to something less dangerous or it’ll destroy itself." At the risk of inciting an insanely dangerous mob, what a freakin drama queen. - Christopher A Carr
Glad to know you know me so well @Zudfunck, So I'm a "spoiled intellectual" from California... Not a 29 year old college dropout living in Randers, Denmark? Wow you know me so well almost better than I know myself. Thanks for the generalization, it totally helped my mood :-P - Rasmus Lauridsen
What an odd post - I like Arrington, but it's posts like this that make him come off as a bully. The mob boss? - Jesse Stay
Robert: "Nice mob you got here" ~ Kevin Costner in Wyatt Earp - Sean E Brown
I think Mike is paranoid one of those startups he loves to put in the deadpool want HIM in the deadpool :p - Mark
A salad? You see this is the Kevin Rose effect. All the young kids up and coming in tech are all skinny, and they rock climb, and drink fashionable teas from around the world. No more fat techies with these guys in charge. Crap. - Mark
@mark dammit I need to work out then, thanks for not sending me that memo before now! :-P - Rasmus Lauridsen
Lost me when he got to the pustules part. - Oldengrey (Jay) from fftogo
Mike Arrington's is not on the global radar, so his rant is useless. There are major social media shifts in developing countries, violent regime crack-downs, and tech developments leading human dignity campaigns. - E-Advocate Network
Yawn, change a few words and it could be used by any class with power, religious, political. IE. Admin blog power, Green Dam, RIAA, Tehran, Bush. Read/Write culture is showing tremendous growth. There is no one person, power, group or nation that can change any of it. Call it Mob call it anything you want, but for 99.99999999999% of the population. His rant is a YAWN. It will change nothing and have no effect not now or ever. There is nothing to fear here move on. - Robert Higgins
The biggest problem with Mike Arrington and MG Siegler's arguments is they only seeing this problem because of their position. I've said some pretty fierce, opinionated things on FriendFeed, Twitter, and elsewhere, but I'm not fearing for my life. Nor would I in the near future. Even though we're not anonymous on FriendFeed or Twitter, it doesn't matter for most because we're anonymous enough to where enough people are going to care enough to do something to us. - Jared Mehle
+1 SpragueD, the difference being Ann Coulter has a pair of *cojones.* she wouldn't need months of seclusion and grief counseling after someone spat on her. - Karim
Karim: I am no longer speaking at any TechCrunch event, according to an email I just received. Just so we can clear that part up of the conversation above. - Robert Scoble
What a bone head move by TC. - Mark
Sorry, I don't join mobs. - xero
Wait. MA's issue is with Ff and it's people, not with Scobleizer. Why would he ban you Robert, and not us? You can't speak at TC, but the Ff mob is still welcome? - Matthew DeVries
Matthew: I don't know, but he clearly was not happy with something I said above. - Robert Scoble
Matthew: Mike considers Robert the leader of the FF movement for some odd reason. Cult leader. He evangelises the service so he must be the one getting people to threaten Mike, right. - Mark
He is not even on any advisory boards or consulted on feature rollouts......IIRC Ff is ran buy Paul and some other dude. - Matthew DeVries
I do see quite a few posts defending, or at least clarifying for the positive things about Arrington....*sigh* - Matthew DeVries
Matthew: it might have been a comment he deleted over on TechCrunch too. I don't know. I'll talk with him when he's calmer and see what got him to use that stick on my legs. - Robert Scoble
It's getting to the point that Wil Harris and Martin Sargent are the only TWiT panelists that will appear together. (hyperbole alert) - Matthew DeVries
Does Wil Harris have a Ff? - Matthew DeVries
Don't think so. We have work to do to get alot of the big twitter users over here. - Mark
Friendfeed is ours. We own it, not the celebs who own twitter more and more :/ FF is for the geeks. - Mark
The people I'd love to see over here, Scott @extralife Johnson, and Kevin Smith. - Matthew DeVries
@MDV, love to see Scott Johnson here. I think he could benefit from the more media-rich capabilities of FF. Also wouldn't mind seeing Wil Wheaton here, too. - Jason Huebel
Robert... he *disinvited* you to London? lol. petty. perhaps not unexpected though, given his penchant for drama. http://dramabutton.com in the movies they call it a "plot point." - Karim
Karim: I'm going to London, just not going to speak at any TechCrunch event I guess. I'm going as part of http://www.travelinggeeks.com - Robert Scoble
No, he got your London credentials pulled. "We got a burn notice on you, you're black listed" - Matthew DeVries
©Scoble, you said, "...he only can hurt you if you let him. If your marketing campaign relies on TechCrunch then your marketing campaign is bad and needs a major rethink." According to a rep from a huge tech corporation, even an unknown blogger can damage a company's ability to sell a product. When I asked for permission to review a new device, the response I received conveyed this warning. I never wrote the review. I'm not sure I ever wrote any others. - MiniMage, sheeple of FF
MiniMage: yes, any random person can hurt you, but only if that pain resonates with others. If you have a great product or service, it will go on. Look at Apple. - Robert Scoble
Matthew: where did you read that? - Robert Scoble
Matthew: Arrington isn't in charge of http://www.travelinggeeks.com so he can't pull my ticket from London. He can, however, keep me out of TechCrunch events. - Robert Scoble
I'll read this thread, but why is Mike angry with you, Robert? - Stephen Pickering
Stephen: I don't know. I guess he feels I turned the mob against him. Or something I did over on his blog bugged him (he deleted a comment where I wondered whether his attacks on FriendFeed were driven by his inclusion on the Twitter Suggested User List, which delivered to him $250,000 of value and that he never discloses when he talks about social networking). Funny if it's that because it's pretty much the same thing that he did to Leo Laporte that pissed off Leo so much. - Robert Scoble
I didn't Robert, I was quoting the opening of Burn Notice eps. - Matthew DeVries from fftogo
Yeah, I was just thinking that's what Leo should have shot back with, and I was just thinking the same thing about the SUL and how dramatically that's a bigger deal to affect their coverage of Twitter than Leo's getting a pre for a week. I'll try to start being just positive like you suggested earlier, but it makes me wonder if TechCrunch got as many @replies attacking them as Mike suggests they get at FriendFeed, would he shut down the Twitter account? Of course not. Which of course is hypocritical. OK, I won't bring up any negative anymore, was just curious was angry at you. - Stephen Pickering
I guess I'm agnostic on this issue. I do feel, however, that when there's repeatedly smoke, there must be something that's overheating pretty damned often. I mean, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh always blame "the receiver" if they disagree with anything "the annointed" have posited. (No, I'm not directly comparing Michael A. to those guys, but if he's claiming to be misinterpreted by so many so often, something doesn't add up. Isn't he a "professional" in communications, after all? Just sayin... - Mark Jepsen
I thought friendfeed was the "coolest app nobody uses"... now we're the mob ;) guess we're moving up in the world guys. - Frankie Warren
lol Matthew -- no, the "Burn Notice" intro goes like this: http://www.hulu.com/watch... My name is Robert Scoble. I used to be a social media expert. Until... [VOICE ON PHONE: "Arrington put out a burn notice on you. You're blacklisted."] - Karim
"A former Cable TV host who used to inform on you to the FBI: [You know Web 2.0 bloggers, a bunch of BITCHY little girls]" - Matthew DeVries
LEAVE MIKE ARRINGTON ALONE!!! *cries* - Alejandro
If this has already been posted, I apologize, but the bad side of a mob can be seen here: http://hashtags.org/tag... When a twitter / ff user says he's going to commit suicide and a bunch of people encourage him to do so.... Not a good example of the "mob." - Ben Hanten
Ben: so, a bunch of Twitter users flash a stupid hashtag, it shows up here on FF as being ported from Twitter (http://friendfeed.com/search... - note the point of origin and how many users here actually used that tag), and somehow that's the mob that Arrington is talking about? - Steven Perez
I agree with Mike too, except for the syphilis comparison (could have used a better analogy).. Emotions + Real-Time communication with the rest of the world can blow matters out of proportions very quickly, and especially so when not everyone reads all 286++ comments.. - Winston Teo
::Glances over and walks on by....again:: - Geoff Schultz
Winston: the problem I have with is with the equating "social media" with "FriendFeed", Seriously, this place is worse than, say, 4chan? Or Digg? Or Stormfront? Really? - Steven Perez
Because Arrington didn't note this as a general problem. He specifically targeted FriendFeed over some of the worst social media sites out there. For that reason alone, his article is laughable. - Steven Perez
@steven Yup, I would say it's not only about FF. But his "theory" makes sense in a general way, IMO. - Winston Teo
Winston - I see you're new to Arrington's "Victim Tool" it's one of most used and most skillfully wielded. It's a shame that there isn't penalties for diving in tech, like there is in hockey. - Matthew DeVries
Well, welcome to 1997, Winston. Because "mob mentality" has manifested itself since comic book nerds were flaming each other on USENET over whether Hal Jordan or Kyle Rainer was the better Green Lantern. If general assholery was the issue, then not only did Arrington's point hit wildly off the mark, it didn't even land on the same planet. I've been here for a year, and while people do get under each other's skin, the level of stupidity that Arrington professes does not exist here. Arrington's problem with FriendFeed is the same one he's had since I've been here - not enough page hits. - Steven Perez
Not enough page hits, or not enough fans to drown out the dissenting voices. Arrington et al can hide in their imaginary utopian internet hangouts (as if they exist) and shut out everyone who dares to suggest they're wrong, but they need to stop attacking FriendFeed. It's not the cesspool they pretend it is. - MiniMage, sheeple of FF
My take is that Arrington doesn't like FF because he can't control what goes on here or what is said about him here. He can't delete the comments on threads (unless they are his own), like he can on his own web site. - Jeff P. Henderson
@Clark heck, "threads" on Twitter are so disorganized that you can barely call them that. *grin* (I realize some of the desktop apps make them easier to review, but still.) - Ken Kennedy
Mr. Arrington has a good point there: aggregating opinions and discussion indeed create online mob. We just saw it in many real examples. - darwin|1q84
it is always easier to lead a mob than a person. - darwin|1q84
I concur, darwin|1q84, especially when no one moment can be the whole truth. Mobs form quickly and often without the *whole* story. real-time, while useful in many contexts as Louis pointed out, can lead to a quick-time mob mentality that gets out of control fast. Great discussion. Brings up a lot of things. - chad calease
Forums can be every bit as nasty as FF. - Christopher A Carr
It has nothing to do with the medium it has everything to do with people. - Geoff Schultz
Surprise surprise, Arrington deleted my comment on his thread. As I said above, he really doesn't like it if people disagree with him in "his own territory", does he? - Ian Betteridge
If this thread is too much to read through, just parse the comments for the word 'control' Those 7 items explain why Arrington can't handle FriendFeed. nuf said. - Christopher Harley
I'm not sure where Mike Arrington was back in the late 90's, but I was smack dab in the middle of a vibrant CNN online community where discussions happened in real time with real names and yeah, there were mobs around certain issues. Anything to do with the Middle East, or Bill Clinton was guaranteed to be a 24/7 shift for the elves who scrubbed the spam and the flames. This isn't new. It's been around since the cave man days. It's only a question of how it's manifest. - Karoli
LOL of my comments over there he removed the one where I argued against Sean MacDhai for calling Michael a Douche. Guess he just wants to continue being the victim. I actually liked MA's stuff and enjoyed the turds he threw out sometimes. But deleting comments supporting him so he can just look more like a victim is low... Guess I'm gone from there.. His comment moderation makes it impossible to carry on a conversation, self serving as it is... - Rasmus Lauridsen
the bully pulpit worked. against the bully. - Rick Cogley
I think it's time to give him the only response I deem to be effective - removing techcrunch from my feed lists. Bye bye, MA. You won't miss me, but I'm certainly not going to miss you and all the drama. - Ade
Having stepped back and thought about it, I think that there's a serious point struggling to get out of Arrington's post. He's choosing to blame tools like FriendFeed for people being vitriolic, but real-time tools - like any tool - don't make people do anything. People *choose* to be vitriolic: it's part of their make up, their culture, their approach to life. The problem that I have is that much of what Arrington does also takes this approach, to a lesser degree. His posts are often adversarial. He is perfectly happy to unleash attack posts when it suits him. Only when it comes back and bites him does he start to get concerned. So, perhaps, if Mike wants to change things he needs to start looking towards his own behaviour, rather than pointing the finger. - Ian Betteridge
The fact that Mike is deleting comments that don't suit his needs and banned Robert S from Tech crunch events tends to prove my suspicion, and this is about control. He doesn't control the Ff conversation and that's what bothers him. - Kim Landwehr from BuddyFeed
@Kim And also the reason he chose to pull out from FF in the first place! - Ade
It strikes me that Friendfeed tends to fuel invective out of partisanship or loyalty because threads like this one and the TWIT episode thread attract groupies. The bile comes from what the spewers must see as the most noble of motives -- sticking up for their Friend. - Amyloo
the best analogy for friendfeed he could come up with was syphilis? Yeah that's not link bait. I'm sure the guys at friendfeed are just thrilled with Mike today. - timepilot
I think Mike got used to shouting fire in a theater and he is now upset that the theater goers are organized and calling him on it. give me a break - timepilot
Discussion of these questions is welcome with the understanding that the dialogue is invigorating. - Mike Chelen
I would think Arrington's credibility is in question when bashing FF (or other social networks) when he is on Twitterr's SUL. No? - Kevin Whalen from email
That actually is a good and somewhat novel point in all of this Kevin. - Matthew DeVries
Kevin: the praise for twitter is that it is less effective for communication, friendfeed should be thankful for the nice compliment ;) - Mike Chelen
Andrew Terry: the post actually is much more insightful if taken to apply more generally, however it does single out friendfeed as somehow qualitatively worse than blogs or twitter :D - Mike Chelen
It is rather silly that FF's supposed Achilles heel is that it's too effective at bringing crowds together. Mike's unspoken counterpoint benefit to Twitter is that megaphone-style broadcasting is still possible without too much interruption from the public. - Daniel J. Pritchett
I prefer twitter because individuals are individuals on twitter and there is nothing meaningful to say in thirty seconds in a flame war or a thread with 322 replies - Michele Costabile
Michele, you just have to go up 1 to find one, Daniel's post was probably the most meaningful thing said in this thread, it was post 320. Need another, go up 6 to Kevin Whalen. There's plenty of well thought out things still to be said on this subject, even if it's this big. - Matthew DeVries
We could certainly use some threading options in the comments UI, maybe even some upvoting and other dynamic resorting. These big threads tend to buckle under their own weight. - Daniel J. Pritchett from IM
*shudder* no voting or per comment liking. Then we do become Digg. There's nothing wrong long with long tracts of prose. It requires participants to be literate and skilled readers, and pushes away the fools. If it needs distilling, do it second hand with blog posts. - Matthew DeVries
Daniel, I like time sequencing on big threads. I'd like to see simpler respond identifiers so when someone says "Jason," I know which of us billion or so Jasons he's talking to. I much prefer this to seeing comments floating around based on up and down votes. - Jason Nunnelley
I did throw in the qualifier "optional" to my feature suggestion. I guess y'all's vote cancels out mine :P (http://www.theonion.com/content...) - Daniel J. Pritchett from IM
Daniel, welcome to the democratic process. Facts and logic need not participate ;) - Jason Nunnelley
Michele: individuals can be seen clearly in friendfeed once familiar with the interface, and followed or unfollowed similar to twitter - Mike Chelen
Guys, Mike should remove the post from Techcrunch or else we will start a group to protest against him - Michael_techie
Guys, please join this group http://friendfeed.com/hate-mi... to protest against Michael Arrington - Michael_techie
You created a group called "Hate Mike Arrington?" Wow. - Mark
Michael_techie - That was a stupid room to make, and it's not funny, or clever, or ironic. You're probably a psuedonym for Arrington trying to create a problem that doesn't exist. - Matthew DeVries
Yep, we should show how big is Friendfeed - Michael_techie
Um, no. - Steven Perez from IM
Sorry @Michael_techie that's a fail. I think its time to move on and think about more positive stuff. It's 22 hours since @scobleizer started this thread, its like years in realtime web. Seas have already flowed under the proverbial bridge on this one. - Rasmus Lauridsen
Yes, you won't see threads like this any more. Scoble wants more positive threads and is trying to make up with Mike Arrington who has denounced their friendship after several years. - Mark
Daniel's post was an appropriate end for it. For me anyway. But there's no way to silence the thread without deleting all my posts and hiding it. That's a brokeness of Ff. It will keep popping in my notifier and my discussions filter even if I hide it. - Matthew DeVries
@Matthew hey we should pile up this conversation in separate room - Michael_techie
As an aside, anyone know if Michael_techie has ever mattered? Can I block him without consequence? - Matthew DeVries
@matthew Are you promoting Michael arrington - Michael_techie
As a FF user, It really hurts when some one call us as mob - Michael_techie
Yeah, He's a flawed guy like us all, and I've always said he never should have taken an ounce of flame the second Leo forgave him, and the community is better with him in it. I wish he hadn't left Ff. But he is wrong about some things. Many things. Like all of us. - Matthew DeVries
@matthew, He shouldn't call the whole FF users as mob, coz he got some hatred messages - Michael_techie
Black Sabbath said it best: When you listen to fools, the mob rules. - Andy Dustman