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Robert Scoble
Robert Scoble
EVERYTIME I notice a market shift, lots of people call me an idiot. Noticing the mobile shifts underway in Europe is no different. More:
July 12 - Comment - Share
The thing is, I talked with dozens of developers from across Europe this week and none of them said I was wrong. They said that there is a huge shift underway in Europe and that Nokia HAS lost mindshare and developer leadership and is underway to market share losses too. - Robert Scoble
This is something you can see with your own two eyes in the street. I'm seeing a huge number of iPhones compared to last year in London. - Robert Scoble
By Europe you mean Norway for eg. ? If so then it's more than natural! - directeur
At one London session of entrepreneurs I spoke in front of, 30% of the audience had iPhones. That was unheard of last year. - Robert Scoble
directeur: I am mostly talking about London, because i have the most experience there (been visiting there for years and watching mobile trends there). - Robert Scoble
Nokia has lost leadership and lost support of developers and Europe no longer has phones that make me jealous. - Robert Scoble
So you're saying the iPhone is popular? Um...what's next? - Tyler Hurst
It is natural! Mobile in northern europe is more developed than anywhere else - directeur
That is a HUGE shift from five years ago. - Robert Scoble
Tyler: not just iPhone. Lots of non-Nokia phones. Blackberries. Androids. - Robert Scoble
Robert, the infrastructures are ready, I bet better than in the USA - directeur
The texting culture there, though, is causing Nokia to miss out on the web revolution that's happening in mobile globally. - Robert Scoble
Having spent some time with the Nokia N97, the iPhone is a stunningly better offering... - Buzz Bruggeman
Surely its no surprise that wealthy entrepreneurs would have an expensive mobile phone? - Mark
directeur: yes, and the infrastructure is being used by iPhones. - Robert Scoble
Buzz: it isn't even close, unfortunately. - Robert Scoble
texting must die! - Tim Hoeck
Robert- iPhone more popular than anything else? Is it the apps that are winning? - Tyler Hurst
Mark: you are particularly clueless with that statement. Most entrepreneurs are very poor compared to others in society. - Robert Scoble
welcome home Robert... :) - Bill Heslin
Texting won't die..but the availability of apps on the iPhone will widen the gap.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Mark: entrepreneurs are WHO SHIFTS SOCIETY though. So what they do everyone else does shortly. - Robert Scoble
Yes, but Nokia is fully invested in what's happening in the Valley, look at what they're doing at their Research Center here and look at the Valley companies they've bought - Chris Nuttall
Robert, I'm excited to see where things go. I've been watching the market and yes believe there's is about to be a catalytic shift. - Jason Cronkhite
Buzz: it's interesting that some of the coolest iPhone and Android apps are coming out of Europe. - Robert Scoble
Seems pretty obvious to me. My egocentric analysis sees nothing of interest in their(Nokia's) arsenal. - Geoff Schultz
Look at the distribution platform... no suprise... - Buzz Bruggeman
Chris: yes, and what has Nokia done with that investment? Just because you own a great set of technologists doesn't mean you will be able to fix your UI problems and your lack of belief in the web. - Robert Scoble
A friend told me there are more than 130k iPhones on the T-Mobile network here in the USA, e.g. all hacked... - Buzz Bruggeman
Palm, iPhone, Android all treat the web as a first class citizen on their devices. Nokia doesn't. THe web SUCKS on Nokia phones. - Robert Scoble
Chris works for Financial Times, by the way. I'm very interested in hearing his observations about what Nokia will do to fight the Palm/Android/iPhone push to web and great UIs. - Robert Scoble
Yes, it's a puzzle to me how they have done so poorly with their handsets in the US, but they do believe in the web, after all they have rebranded themselves as an internet company. They are still way ahead in their thinking but not their implementation. - Chris Nuttall
Chris: it's easy to say "we believe in the web." It's far harder to make the web work properly on your devices and make it a first class citizen. - Robert Scoble
On the notion of, "We Are The Media", I was at a local cheerleader camp and it was really interesting to see the lines of parents who all had their phones taking video, pictures and sharing media. It was almost like what you see on the red carpet events. - Jason Cronkhite
Chris... implementation seems to be a fairly important issue.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Scoble - ever use Skyfire? iPhone is going to take the "general public" share as its expected to for the next 3 years, but after that - if mobile technology grows into something more, Nokia will take it back with innovation. Something iPhone has yet to truly offer - Enrique Gutierrez
Enrique: yeah, Skyfire looks interesting but isn't as nice as Android/Palm/iPhone approaches that are natively built in. - Robert Scoble
Robert, Buzz, you're right, just think it's too soon to write them off, damn clever those Finns - Chris Nuttall
Symbian OS is archaic and needs a new browser, certainly, but you can't dance the fact that iPhone has offered little innovation outside of marketing appeal. Nokia is where the forward advancement in mobile tech is going to come from - Apple has not ever and will not ever provide that (as they don't NEED to) - Enrique Gutierrez
Finns are fine, bring out the sauna, but look rather at all the developers on the iPhone platform... - Buzz Bruggeman
Enrique: it's interesting. I have been using a Nokia phone for the past week and it sucks. Copy and paste? Far harder than iPhone. Taking a picture? Far harder than iPhone. Loading an app? Far harder than iPhone. Finding a wifi network? Far harder than an iPhone. Pulling up a web page and typing into it? Far harder than an iPhone. THAT IS INNOVATION THAT MATTERS, NOT WHETHER YOU HAVE A ZEISS LENS!!!! - Robert Scoble
Doesn't anybody ever have a problem with the iphone soft keyboard? I can't seem to get it right ended up back with the blackberry. - Jim
Nokia has been struggling for years to keep up with competition innovation. - Jason Cronkhite
Right now the bigger issue is what Apple has chosen to reveal in the iPhone OS, and what ATT can support! There aren't enough Finns to go around to match this.. - Buzz Bruggeman
"far harder" is FULLY subjective. - Enrique Gutierrez
Robert...btw...how was London? Don't you just love it? - Bill Heslin
Chris: true. You can never count out Nokia, they have lots of interesting research labs and interesting people working hard on mobile, but they did lose their leadership and now it will be very interesting to see how they will get it back. - Robert Scoble
As for the softtkeyboard, Jim, it is good enough.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Enrique: no, it is NOT subjective at all. Just put a bunch of people in a room and measure it. I was with a bunch of geeks this week and we were forced to use Nokia phones and they really, really suck. You have no idea how badly they suck. And then when I talk with entrepreneurs and see that 30% have already switched, well, you are totally wrong and missing the boat. - Robert Scoble
Oh cool, an Apple v. Nokia thread. Robert, good for you if you're right. However, please don't mistake London for the whole of Europe. Or developers with average users. And please don't ignore the fact that there's more mobile web traffic in Europe than in the US (which was, if I'm not mistaking, said in that Really Mobile post you linked to). - Vlad Bobleanta
Yes, I think they need to strike more alliances here - the Intel one is a good start and supporting something like Moblin - Chris Nuttall
Vlad: I noticed the same thing last year at LeWeb in France and at Davos in Switzerland and in Tel Aviv in Israel (where there isn't even an Apple store, or there wasn't last year). - Robert Scoble
Vlad: average users ALWAYS follow developers. Why? Because cool apps drag people to new platforms. Eventually. And my subway trips in London prove that out too, lots of iPhones all over the place, just like in San Francisco. - Robert Scoble
Chris: those alliances won't fix Symbian. I think Symbian needs to pull a Palm and start over. - Robert Scoble
I've worked with Nokia phones for 11 years, they have definitely come out with shit phones, and crap OS works, but in the end - they thought of every aspect behind the iPhone 10 years ago with their "Yellow Egg"; and have strived to do more & do better. iPhone... no multitasking? crap camera quality? please, they trim & skim - and it's Apple, the abusers of the consumer. It's just how it is, Apple is a marketing platform, Nokia is a mobile tech company. Simple. - Enrique Gutierrez
Slowly people will start shifting to soft keyboard smart phones. - Keven
Yes Symbian sucks, but it's like Microsoft abandoning Windows asking them to do that, well, maybe not quite that severe a move - Chris Nuttall
Enrique: again, the web is far more important to most people than having a sharp camera. This is provable. And having a great UI that's easy to use, along with tens of thousands of applications that are fun is more important. - Robert Scoble
As for Nokia, they're a little busy selling 1.5 million phones a day, and most of those to "emerging markets" such as India. As for the browser in the N97, I beg to differ. The UX is not 100% "there yet", but then again, it knows what Flash is. And it's by far Nokia's best browser so far. So I guess in the end you have to make a choice. Pretty or functional. Just don't mistake one for the other. Or you could just install another browser if you don't like it. Because you can do that on a Nokia. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: I know the market share argument. It sucks as an argument. Alta Vista used to own the market share against Google too. - Robert Scoble
How much money do you make selling cheap phones in India? Just curious? - Buzz Bruggeman
Reducing Nokia to being simple a "nice camera" shows me that you're fixated on a biased notion. - Enrique Gutierrez
Buzz: Nokia makes a lot, but that isn't my point. My point was that Europe used to be three to five years ahead in devices and now it is behind. THAT is a HUGE shift and one that is causing tons of developers to switch loyalties. - Robert Scoble
Enrique: there is NOTHING ELSE on the Nokia phones that comes close to being better than the current iPhone. Sorry, you can keep that argument up but it does not hunt. - Robert Scoble
Enrique: what matters most is delivering something that users will adopt and love. And, that is what Apple does well. Sorry to say that Nokia is just not delivering and has not for some time. I used to be and avid Nokia promoter (sold the product for years) but its time for them to deliver something to the market that performs and brings new value to use applicaitons. - Jason Cronkhite
Robert, I know you're busy - but to keep things ... realistically put together for this discussion, I've already written on this matter: http://enrique-gutierrez.com/2009... and followed it up with http://enrique-gutierrez.com/2009... - Enrique Gutierrez
Buzz: It doesn't matter. You're there, the No.1 brand in India for years in a row. And then you add services to the mix. And give people their first EVER internet experience (on a phone, yes). Because that's just the way it will be. More people will be introduced to the net on a phone than on a computer in a couple of years, if not already. And most of those people are in India, Africa, and so on. I see Nokia betting big there. On services. And I don't see any competition for them there. So maybe the iPhone will rule the Western world. Then again, the biggest mobile carrier/operator is China Mobile. I hope my point is clearer now, Robert. I agree with you on the market share argument. - Vlad Bobleanta
It's too bad Nokia never managed to invent a good user experience while they were busy inventing everything else. - Geoff Schultz
Jason, the problem with Nokia is US market centric for the most part. They have failed to introduce anything ground-breaking WITH service provider support since the Nokia 5190 (the first phone to introduce Apps, btw) - Enrique Gutierrez
Well yeah. it's a now market. - Patricia
Vlad, so true ... developing and emerging markets will also shine new light on potential use cases. - Jason Cronkhite
Enrique: I've read your articles. They read like Nokia press releases. I've written them too. Here's my version of your article: http://scobleizer.com/2008... written MONTHS AGO. The thing is, I wrote it before the iPhone 3GS came out and before I had good face time with the N97. Today? Sorry, the N97 doesn't come close to the iPhone. - Robert Scoble
I'd say you should look more towards the sony ericsson joint venture for the european handset firm with a better grasp on the market, even if their products have been a bit crap too. But then, I've never met a single phone yet that has been perfect. The iphone has its share of problems (the fact that after about 2 to 3 hours use the damn thing is dead, the touchscreen can be very hit or miss (also noticed the left side of the screen is losing sensitivity for me now). However, my greatest complaint is with the incredibly shitty pricing from O2 for enabling tethering on the phone. 15 quid a month on top of my contract tariff? No damn way! - alphaxion
Jason: sorry, emerging markets are momentum plays. They ALWAYS FOLLOW what happened elsewhere. Name a single thing that's come up market. Just one. - Robert Scoble
If by user experience, all of you mean learning curve, I agree. There's a learning curve with Symbian, there isn't with the iPhone. But, after that has gone, the user experience is very close. If you're just willing to try. If you're not, then yeah, the iPhone wins by far. - Vlad Bobleanta
Robert: netbooks. - Vlad Bobleanta
Netbooks lol - Geoff Schultz
Vlad: you are missing my point by making it only about the iPhone. You are forgetting the Palm Pre and the Android OS. Those point the way to great UIs with great regard for the Web. Those are the #1 and #2 things consumers are caring about. THEY ARE DRIVING THE MARKET EVERYWHERE NOW. - Robert Scoble
Vlad: netbooks were not developed in emerging markets, unless you say OLPC, which hasn't been very successful anywhere. - Robert Scoble
Robert: Not true, take a look at what has happened in Africa with crime (citizen mobilization) where new technologies have emerged because of constraints. - Jason Cronkhite
There are lots of companies selling lots of Netbooks, and the ones built on Linux get returned to the sellers, e.g. no drivers.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Vlad: you're wrong about the user experience. I've learned to use a Nokia phone. I'm one of the world's leading users of Nokia phones for live video (I was first to do that at Davos, for instance) but it still takes more frustrating clicks to get to the web and the web sucks when compared to the iPhone, no matter how much learning you've done. - Robert Scoble
Most end users don't want to try to learn something, They just want it too work for them easily. - Kim Landwehr
Buzz: exactly, and Jason, that's not something that has gone from third world to first world, sorry. - Robert Scoble
OLPC wasn't successful but it sort of defined a category which is a PERFECT example of what you can expect to come out of innovation for EM's CHEAP GEAR with yesterspec's - Geoff Schultz
Geoff: you do realize that the OLPC was developed in Boston, right. :-) - Robert Scoble
I'm not forgetting the Pre, Palm is forgetting the GSM/WCDMA world. I will remember them in Q4. And I'm not forgetting Android either, but I'm expecting a lot more from it in the future. Right now, I don't think the mass market takes it seriously the way it's starting to do with the iPhone, that is all. As for netbooks, Taiwan is not an emerging market, nor a developing one. But I distinctly remember Asus positioning the first EEEs just for the developing markets. And for a while only selling them there, until they caught hold of the demand that existed in developed markets. - Vlad Bobleanta
Kim... agreed, people want easy, productive maybe next...but easy is the most important, e.g. taking anyway event the slightest pain... - Buzz Bruggeman
of coruse but it was designed with EMs in mind. - Geoff Schultz
Buzz: actually, people will pick up more difficult things IF there's a compelling reason to do so. The thing is, iPHone has 40,000 compelling things that Nokia doesn't have: apps. The developers in Europe are building iPhone apps, they are NOT building Nokia apps. - Robert Scoble
I have arguing with Netbook oems that the first one that builds a touch enabled/tablet/Netbook that runs Kindle reader software is going to kick ass... - Buzz Bruggeman
Vlad: remember 1993? The Macintosh was way ahead of Windows. What happened in 1995? Windows became "good enough" and had FAR MORE APPS. That's why I am watching Android. The coolest developers are also building for Android. Apple has to be concerned that it's 1993 all over again. :-) - Robert Scoble
But compelling and pain, perhaps argue for the long tail, I would love to see a distribution chart for iPhone apps, my guess is that the 80/20 rule pervails, e.g. 80% of the iPhone apps are either the top 20 or max top 20%.. - Buzz Bruggeman
netbooks remind me of the old Psion computers (in fact, Psion actually hold the trademark to the word netbook!) - alphaxion
Buzz: No drivers? On an OS that ships with a netbook? LOL. One would think that's the first thing an OEM/ODM would care about. You know, it actually working. Anyway, who cares what OS they ship with, exactly? Thankfully Microsoft made XP cheap enough for netbooks so that it became a valuable proposition. You think people in emerging markets know what Linux is more than people in developed countries? They don't. - Vlad Bobleanta
Bill: I had dinner with someone who had lunch with the queen, but that's the closest I got! :-) - Robert Scoble
Vlad.. Windows 7 on a netbook is dazzling. Get one and try it.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Robert: agreed on apps. People develop for iPhone and Android because it is 100 times easier than for Symbian. That will change, but I wonder if it won't be too late. - Vlad Bobleanta
Bill: we have this conversation EVERY TIME there are shifts. You should have seen my arguments with AOL'ers over the Web in 1995. :-) - Robert Scoble
Buzz: I have a netbook and it's been running 7 since December. - Vlad Bobleanta
What a successful mobile device has to have: 1.) OS 2.) Developers 3.) Network 4.) Hardware 5.) Sex appeal they are fashion accessories now. - Geoff Schultz
Vlad.. and? - Buzz Bruggeman
Bill: I still remember the kids who told me that Macintoshes were stupid, too, and that the world doesn't need mice and windows. Yeah, that went over very well. - Robert Scoble
Why haven't you installed Linux on it...it's cheaper.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Buzz: And what? I don't understand what the point of your suggestion was. I use Win7 on all my computers. Therefore, I like it. A lot. - Vlad Bobleanta
Why do people argue against shifts? Because they invested in old stuff and don't want to change. But change is happening and I'm going ot point it out. - Robert Scoble
My point very simply is that the OS platform and all the apps that run on it are key.. there are no meaningful desktop apps on Linux, and the notion that we have bandwidth ubiquity is delusional... - Buzz Bruggeman
Robert: good. I'm not arguing against a shift. Something is always changing, and that's good. Because it's thanks to competition, which itself is the best thing ever imho. However, deeming something dead (as opposed to not having a competitive edge anymore) seems a bit much to me. But again, you might be right. In which case in a couple of years I will gladly admit that you were. - Vlad Bobleanta
these kinds of observations tend to be contentious outside of hard numbers -- people are touchy, you know ;-) -- but anecdotally... i just read the "Dirty Dozen Ugliest and Lamest Cell Phones" list (http://tech.msn.com/product...) and it's a funny look at some seriously BAD design. America has a phone on that list, as does Korea, Japan, and Israel. The other 8 crap phones are all European. Which is kind of surprising. - Karim
Hence, until someone comes along with rich applications that are available either offline or in some 4G world where you always are on line...Microsoft will own huge chucks of this space.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Buzz: But I agree with that. I don't know why, but it seems to me you are associating netbooks with Linux. When most now ship with XP. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: I never said that Nokia was dead. I said it lost its leadership. That is a HUGE difference. Nokia will probably still be a profitable company for decades living off of its momentum. - Robert Scoble
@robert I think some argue against them because too many people cry wolf about them. I mean, I agree with you about a change in the handset market, I do still think Europe will remain ahead of the US for quite some time in most other aspects of mobile comms. But, I wouldn't be surprised if a change there happened. An open mind is a good thing :) - alphaxion
In the 3rd world the OEMs are trying to ship there own builds of Linux, trying to cut costs to the bone.. - Buzz Bruggeman
alphaxion: the neat thing about visiting a place once a year for years is you get to see shifts underway. This is a big one, and there's lots of UK developers who are poised to take advantage of it. - Robert Scoble
Buzz: you have numbers for that? And one more thing, by netbooks I do not mean OLPC. That's on another level. - Vlad Bobleanta
aye, attending tech events in places outside of London (I'd recommend the next time you come to the UK, you step outside of the M25 to see the real UK) you notice that a lot of people talk not only about iphone apps they're developing, but of the web apps they're crafting too. I think the biggest change that is happening is a much bigger uptake of mobile data in general, be it in phone handsets or in dongles strung off of laptops. - alphaxion
alphaxion: my brother-in-law drives a bus in Newport, Wales, so I get there frequently and he says he's seen more iPHones too. - Robert Scoble
Vald, sorry, just anectdotal info...because of our product, e.g. http://www.activewords.com/ , which seems to be the perfect storm beneficiary for Netbooks, I have been reading and talking to anyone/thing I can about Netbooks.. - Buzz Bruggeman
I agree that there's more iphones (I moved from a palm treo to one in december last year), I was just pointing out that there's more to the mobile market than what handset a person uses ;) I still think you should come to some of the tech meet ups in Leeds, Manchester and Sheffield. - alphaxion
Scoble: what made netbooks so popular? The demand for small, light weight computing made for emerging markets. Now, the market has risen upstream because of constraint in the third world and made netbooks popular along with the timing of cloud computing. - Jason Cronkhite
alphaxion: I watch what developers do. I have never seen a shift that the developers did NOT see first. - Robert Scoble
Jason: netbooks are popular here, too. Why? Small low cost netbooks are popular. They didn't start being popular in the third world and move to popularity in Silicon Valley because of that. - Robert Scoble
Netbooks are disposable computers...amortized on a 6 month basis,and there is a nuclear arms race going on, not HP's recent model with HDef screen.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Robert: I see Symbian as becoming less and less mass-market (of smartphones). This segment will probably end up dominated, in a few countries, by the iPhone. And yes, maybe the Pre and Android too. Symbian will become more niche, and it will (read:should) appeal more or mostly to power users. Because of its underlying functionality, modularity and customizability, which are all light-years ahead of any other mobile platform right now. Which is why it's funny that more and more people in this power-user category find Jesus in the iPhone. Considering all its bewildering (imho) limitations. Which people ignore. But hey, that's fine by me. Just remember, with respect to internet usage, app usage and all that, what the US is doing now is catching up with Europe. While introducing a few interesting shifts, yes. - Vlad Bobleanta
And about netbooks, Robert. Sorry. No one thought the need for a small low cost notebook existed in the US before they saw the EEE. I do not mean consumers, but manufacturers. - Vlad Bobleanta
And look how long it took the big guys, HP and Dell, to make their own. Always hoping this will just go away and they wouldn't need to sell anything with such small margins. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad... "ignore" is the operative word, think easy...that's all I hear, e.g. easy to use, easy to read..the great bulk of the people I know with iPhones have no clue that an iPhone has any limitations.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Vlad: right. But I didn't get netbooks because they were developed for some poor country. I bought them because they were cool and only $400. - Robert Scoble
Buzz: Cool then. But bad for them. Oh, and some day they will. In which case, unless iPhone OS 5 is anything different, they will need something more. - Vlad Bobleanta
Maybe Nokia is waiting(developing) for Chrome OS for its phones - Damian Holmes
Robert: the origination of netbooks where built because of constrained resources to solve other problems. They became popular here after seeing the effects of much simpler use cases because of the 3rd world. We only recognized the opportunity to innovate after the fact. - Jason Cronkhite
Robert: True. But they were sold in poor countries at first. Which drew your (and other connected people's) attention to them. This created a demand. To which Asus and Acer, in their bid to win market share, responded. :) - Vlad Bobleanta
And I've met plenty of developers that have backed the wrong horse ;) The iphone tho, I agree isn't the wrong horse in this case. Still, doesn't change that there is a general migration to mobile based internet connectivity instead of wired connection restricted to your home. Many of the mobile operators in the UK are giving away netbooks with a 3G dongle contract. - alphaxion
Damian: LOL. That was it. That was why it isn't Android, they were waiting for Chrome OS. Now it makes sense. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: we're on the same page re: netbooks. - Jason Cronkhite
Jason: Yup, it seems so. Good to not argue with every single person here :) - Vlad Bobleanta
You make a lot more money being a fast follower than pioneer... Apple understands that...and so does Microsoft... - Buzz Bruggeman
@jason as I mentioned, the netbook is a kinda evolution of the pocket computers from the likes of Psion (who have the trademark on the name "netbook"). - alphaxion
alphaxion: Yes, that trend is extraordinary imho. The more subsidized netbooks, the better. The more people connected to the internet easier, in more places, and not dependant on cables, the better. Oh crap, now I'm going to have to argue with everyone for this. - Vlad Bobleanta
Buzz: that I do agree with completely. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: I am not sure it's true that netbooks went on sale in third-world countries first, but even if that's true, it's not why I bought one. - Robert Scoble
Robert / Vlad: as Robert said, emerging markets are for momentum...well, Apple needs to look at these constrained and emerging markets to see how the product is used as I'm sure further innovation can be had because of circumstance. - Jason Cronkhite
I didn't say it's why you bought one, I said it's why you were able to buy one. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: I don't agree with that thesis, either. Computers are always getting smaller and cheaper. But, let's get back to discussing mobile, cause even if you are right it really doesn't match the mobile shifts going on now and it doesn't explain why Nokia has lost its way. - Robert Scoble
Robert, I think Vlad & I are both saying that more innovation comes from circumstantial or constrained situations than more people give credit to or see. - Jason Cronkhite
Robert: Agreed. I didn't want to hijack this, but you asked for an up-market example. - Vlad Bobleanta
Jason: that's true. Vlad: yeah, but I don't see anyone marketing netbooks as "you should buy one because they are popular in India." While iPhones are marketed down market like that all the time. - Robert Scoble
Bill: heheh. This is how I work out my jet lag. :-) - Robert Scoble
I know but......... - Bill Heslin
Bill: don't worry, I have a ton of Microsoft stuff coming in the morning (among other videos that I did in London). - Robert Scoble
I think the key word in mobile is 'easy'. And this was pioneered by Apple. Which is why I keep coming back to them. It's easy to do this and that. Not much, but what you can do is easy. This is the key to success with average Joes, imho. However, for the so-called power users, I think the more options the better. The less artificially imposed limits, the better. It's how I see it. I might be wrong and these people will not wake up one day and shout: seriously, I can't install a different browser? And maybe, just maybe, look for alternatives that are more functional yet may sacrifice a bit of UI pretiness and overall UX. - Vlad Bobleanta
Robert: how do you feel about mobile commerce and entertainment i.e. live mobile consumption and mobile transactions? - Jason Cronkhite
Yes there is a shift in terms of attention from developers. The driver is the cool and fast user experience and the easy integration with the cloud and cool new devices IMHO. Europe has to catch up and developers must define their objectives. Why? There are the end users with different phones and a developer should try to reach out more than 1% of the world market. Europe mobile technology must attract end users and developers. BTW: Readers should separate between current market share and a market shift. - bishoph
iPhone has captured developers in a way only the Palm did 10 years ago. For this reason the iPhone is more compelling than the N97. Nokia's have been technically superior for years (internet tethering? come on Apple, Nokia's came with bluetooth modem drivers years ago) but Apple packages better, is easier to use and has attracted developers. Also, it's created a platform where the average Joe will be buying apps rather than the internet/gadget fans only. Technical superiority is only half the battle. - David Reinhardt
Robert: the problem of your initial statement is that you're saying "Nokia is European and used to be ahead in terms of mobile phones development, and now it is not, thus Europe is now behind of USA in mobile terms", but you never justify why or how Nokia's lost leadership puts Europe behind USA mobile-wise. - Marcos Marado from fftogo
Just curious about the usability once again @Robert Scoble. As I understand that u only have to slide down the lens cover of the N97 to activate the camera and then use the dedicated shutter button to take a photo, thus having the camera (and the screen) on a landscape mode like every other digital camera. U say that taking a photo with N97 (or some other Nokia device) is far more complex than taking a photo with iPhone. How much easier it is on the iPhone? - Henrikki
Otherwise quite interesting discussion. Nokia is at the moment as weak as it's weakest link, which is the OS. I have been a bit dissapointed about the time it has taken them to implement touch and really focus on developers. The OS is the platform and that is going through a major transition to open software projekt. Nokia just can't abandon the OS and the platform and the transition takes time. Do they have the time, time will tell. - Henrikki
There is absolutely no way Europeans would create their own proprietary OS for mobile devices to compete with the iphone and symbian. Nokia is BY FAR the biggest worldwide mobile phone producer, they sell about a billion mobile phones each year, no matter how many rich people can afford to buy iphones at your conferences. - Charbax
Android 2.0 is ready in September, that one will enable dozens of new manufacturers to come with iphone-killer devices, absolutely FOR SURE. Archos which I am the biggest fan of, they are french and making an Android phone with HD video playback, HD video record, up to 500GB storage, 4.8" 800x480 OLED touchscreen, Tivo-like video recording, DVB-T and DVB-SH mobile TV reception and recording, ARM Cortex A8 processor with OpenGL powerful 3D gaming emulation. Those features make for absolute iphone-killer even though that French company Archos only uses 1/1000th the R&D budget of Apple. - Charbax
I was in West Africa last year and it was pointed out to me by a European working there that even though it's a poor country, everyone has a Nokia. And it was almost true. Every mobile phone I saw was a Nokia. They were intrigued by my iPhone but there is no way they could have used one to it's full potential. Compared to Europe and the US, Africa and Asia are huge emerging markets full of relatively poor people who just want to make a phone call. Nokia does that for them. The last time I visited New York everyone seemed to have a RAZR. That says a lot about what your average American expects from a cellphone. Techs and geeks are not a good barometer where mobile phones are concerned. You need to go down the pub, or to a football match or just observe the kids in the high street. Europe is not behind. In many ways we're in front with Mobile technology, but it's currently being used to it's fullest potential by a minority of people, both in Europe and America. When and if it ever reaches the mainstream there's going to be a hell of train crash unless networks get their acts together. - Gilbert Harding
This whole conversation is cracking me up! Keep it up, Robert. Of course, a handset isn't the only measure of markets, technologies or leadership in mobile. I will add this point to Robert's observations. The highest ARPU (average revenue per user) globally is in the USA. The greatest number of talk time per month on a mobile happens in the USA @ almost 1000 minutes/month/per user. We love our mobiles. Sadly, our operators are behind Europe's in network speed. HSPDA+ delivers 3.6 mbps downlink which AT&T has deployed but doesn't run at that speed. The current rollouts of WiMAX from Clear.net does provide greater speeds down, but all providers continue to choke off uplink speeds. That's the biggest hurdle for "from the edge" innovation that could and should occur on the path to the 2010 web - mobile and not. - Debi Jones
I'm in the UK now and have also noticed the shift towards more touch sensitive screens over here... my brother and nieces have had touch sensitive LG mobiles and other brands for some years now, way before I got my iPhone last year. They are all still laughing at my ancient PAYG Nokia phone that I use over here for calls and txts when travelling. It's like a museum piece compared to their cool touch mobiles. - Sally Church
@Henrikki as someone who owns an N97 and an iPhone, they are like night and day. The iPhone you just touch the camera icon on the screen and go, the N97 took me over a week to work out how to take a photo and a year later I still have no clue how to use many of the functions including setting up email on it. The iPhone is intuitive and doesn't need a manual. - Sally Church
@SallyChurch I think you'll find you have an N95. The N97 has only just been released, so there's no way you could've owned it for a year. My wife has an N95 and the only things she uses are the phone functions & to take pictures - everything else hasn't been touched. - Edd McArdle