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Robert Scoble
Robert Scoble
I can't make stuff like this up: Facebook screws iFart author. Discussion:
January 24 - Comment - Share
Crazy - Justin Yost
Facebook really loves disabling accounts. I think this is totally lame. What do you think? - Robert Scoble
i was chatting with someone at a party recently who disabled his account because his name sounded fake (his name was Stormy). - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
I only keep my account active to keep the other Mark Carras at bay. Dang Canadians. :D - MarkCarras
facebook sucks - should have stayed for college kids imho - although my Mom sent me an invite to play Scramble with her tonight - geesh - BEX
Kinda think Facebook fell into its success due to MySpace's incompetence in letting their social network turn into a cesspool. If there is a legitimate reason for there still being a 5000 friend limit after their transition from unknown site to near the top of the heap, it escapes me! If Myspace had started out like Virb, there wouldn't be a Facebook IMVHO. - John Rubier
I would suggest that people avoid using walled garden services for anything that they consider important, such as business and even personal communications. We also need to make a LOT of noise about services that treat their customers/users like disposable diapers. Unfortunately we are at the mercy of just about every service provider on the net, be it mail, social sites or photo/video hosting sites. This is a symptom of a new industry that does not yet have governmental regulation to protect users. - Jeff P. Henderson
This is exactly why I keep facebook more personal. If you want people to interface with you in the masses the best way is friendfeed or twitter. Facebook was simply not setup for this type of behavior. Now do I think the should have kicked him off and removed his profile? Absolutely not. Are we hearing the entire story? Did they warn him again prior to deleting the account. - Sloan Bowman
Sloan: with me they didn't warn me at all. Just disabled my account. - Robert Scoble
I was going to add something, but @Sloan said it perfectly. - Brandon Mendelson
Facebook has always struck me as overbearing. From the time when I signed up and it asked for my gmail password and demanded correct personal details like date of birth, to stories like this, to the terms of service for Facebook Connect which demand facebook login be as prominent as regular login for any sites that implement it. - Bruce Lewis
They disabled mine a month ago, because my name was off by 1 letter. They have all my confirmed credentials, but just nuked me. How about the 20 million completely FAKE schysters with names spelled "right" instead!! - Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct
While I would normally object to the government getting involved with or in the way of business, I think in this case it is clear that there needs to be some legislation that protects a users social graph, guarantees that there is a fair review process for those accused of violating the TOS, and protects users from having vital services cut off and data deleted. - Jeff P. Henderson
Can someone say walled garden! - Allison Davis
It's sad that Facebook is disabling accounts, but I think Facebook needs to emphasize that you should add *real* friends and not people you don't know to your network. This goes for anyone who has 4995+ friends. Sorry Robert. - Tamar Weinberg
Sloan, that is good advice, but not always doable. There are many services such as Linkedin and certainly email providers that we routinely conduct non personal business on. We can not avoid being at the mercy of unfair business practices. - Jeff P. Henderson
If Facebook really felt that "friends" should be real ones then they should have added a "follower". I think they are trying to push the "group" as a substitute for it but I don't think it really cover the same situation. - John Rubier
Robert: In that case they are in the wrong 100%. I keep hearing about this happening time and time again I'm amazed at how these companies (social network or not) are treating the "clients". The thing we have to ask ourselves is what if we payed for this service? Would this still be occurring? - Sloan Bowman
that's why i like using facebook as a sort of "hub", so to speak. flickr for photos, wordpress for my blog etc. everything i add to facebook can be accessed from other areas. they hold too much power. - Terry O'Fee
Sloan, I doubt if you were paying it would be any different, and they could still put anything they wanted in their TOS and treat customers how ever they wanted. With little or not consumer protection laws for these types of services, they will continue to get away with this type of behavior. - Jeff P. Henderson
Every day that the FaceBook staff's idiocy is revealed, I hope for change. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Terry, Friendfeed is a much better 'hub' if all you are looking for is an aggrigater. - Jeff P. Henderson
Tamar: define "real friend" for me please. - Robert Scoble
What, no "Here's why"? :( - Outsanity
Jeff, if you pay or provide other consideration it's a contract. That means they can't change the terms without your consent. - Bruce Lewis
Conan! What is the greatest thing in life? Conan: To create iFart. To get banned from Facebook. And to hear the lamentation of the Scobles. - Internet's Tad
@jeff - not for the common people. lots of close friends/family who dont use twitter, dont give two shits about any of this. they ALL use facebook. - Terry O'Fee
@tad - conan! what is best in life? have you been reading Warren Ellis' website?? - Terry O'Fee
@Terry - nah - just popped in my mind. One of my fave cheezy movies. - Internet's Tad
Tamar & Scoble: I have real life friends and they are almost never there for me for the things my online friends are. So which are "real"? Even in RL I have friends I go to metal shows with and friends I have dinner with. Different friends for different activities. RL or web. Same thing for me. - MarkCarras
Terry: This was exactly my point. This is exactly why facebook prompts you asking how you know this person etc. It is a more personalized service. Twitter is follow/unfollow with little to no personalization. - Sloan Bowman
@Bruce, Agree, but have you read the TOS for every service you use paid or not? Most of them allow the provider to basically treat you like a criminal without proof and you have little or no recourse. Services that are considered vital such as power, water, phone, and even cell and cable to a certain extent have heavy regulation to protect users. The web services we are discussing have little or no regulation to protect users. - Jeff P. Henderson
I have to hook up my mother with facebook soon so she can check my sister's photos when she's away on holidays in Japan. - Terry O'Fee
@tad - what's it from? because whenever warren posts that on his website, it usually means something horribly sick and wrong and you need bleach for your eyes afterwards... - Terry O'Fee
Meanwhile, Facebook hasn't disabled the 214 accounts being used for the 419 scam I mentioned this morning... - Louis Gray
Terry, not all common people use Facebook yet, but everybody has email. Whenever I get a friend request on Facebook I accept it but tell them if they want to know my doings to sign up for my family email updates from ourdoings.com (disclaimer: my web service). - Bruce Lewis
I disagree with the only add "real" friends notion. I myself am not a marketer and I don't use FB in a way that the 5K limit matters. But that's me. Why would FB throw the baby (phenomenal individuals) out with the bathwater (spammers/scammers). Put aside the internet for a second; In the development/fundraising world, big supporters are treasured relationships who need/get MORE attention because the benefit to the organization is commiserate. FB's neither helping their constituents nor themselves by this. - Micah Wittman
Robert - I mean people i know from my home town, people i know in real life, family. Not everyone is interested in this social media hype. However, facebook is an easy way for people who are casual users to get on and communicate with people they know. - Terry O'Fee
Jeff, I actually have read a lot of TOS for different sites, mostly to see if I was missing anything important in the TOS for my own. It varies a lot how well sites treat their users. - Bruce Lewis
@tad - one of the few bad 80s arnold films i never got to see. and i sat through commando once or twice.. - Terry O'Fee
@Bruce, agree and there are actually some businesses that treat their customers very well. I commend them for it and make a point of doing business with them. I also recommend them to others when I can. - Jeff P. Henderson
i could be wrong but i think the TOS for facebook are pretty dodgy. unlike flickr's creative commons, you dont have much rights when it comes to your photos on FB.. - Terry O'Fee
Facebook says you give them the right to use your photos for any purpose they want including advertising/promotion, but they don't assert ownership or restrict your rights: http://www.facebook.com/terms... - Bruce Lewis
Facebook has a mountain of problems and this is only one of them. If they are so concerned with spammers, where are the message options? Even if my privacy option is set so strangers can't send me messages, I still get them wtf is up with that? Blocked people, can send messages for up to four days - wtf? They take too long to respond to hacked/phishing reports http://blogs.wsj.com/digits... yet they delete a users content without checking? Unacceptable. - Mona Nomura
Yet they continue receiving funding. BAFFLING. - Mona Nomura
Mona, is it really baffling? They have a big user base. That's all that matters for funding. - Bruce Lewis
Mona: It's not baffling. They are getting 450,000 new users EVERY FREAKING DAY now. That has HUGE value. Most smart people in the valley wish they could invest in Facebook and get a piece. - Robert Scoble
I see it from Mona's perspective. Users <> value. It's what you do with that influence, and it remains to be seen if Facebook can leverage that profitably. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
To that end, they've had a number of chances with the dev platform and their marketing and ad initiatives to do groundbreaking and progressive things, but continue to try to grab low hanging fruits, and inevitably piss off their users in the process. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
It doesn't matter how angry their users are, only how engaged they are. - Bruce Lewis
It doesn't matter how engaged their users are if Facebook isn't eventually able to figure out a business model. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
facebook restricting the folks with big audiences to 5k friends/followers seems to leave an opening for twitter/friendfeed/etc. shutting accounts does too. Robert: if the size of your audience on facebook was unlimited, how would it change your twitter/friendfeed activity? - Tim Connors
Getting a business model is way easier than getting that many users. Facebook is winning the game. - Bruce Lewis
The sad truth is that very large businesses don't have to worry if they piss off a small number of their customers. There are always new ones to replace them and in the grand scheme of things it does not effect the bottom line. - Jeff P. Henderson
"only how engaged they are" - I'm not so sure about that, Bruce. Engaged North American car owners of domestic autos decades back started jumping ship to the less anger-causing (fewer trips to the mechanic) Japanese products. Vehicles-Social Networks are not apples to apples, but still. I'm no expert on this commerce history, but I've read things. - Micah Wittman
They may have the userbase but check but numbers don't lie. Their number one revenue was apps. But look what happened after the re-design - they screwed over the FB developers and themselves. http://adonomics.com/about... - Mona Nomura
Micah, there's some truth to that, but with cars the dissatisfaction was more widespread, and the alternatives more obvious. - Bruce Lewis
Terry: I have more than 9,000 business cards I've collected from people meeting them face-to-face. i spend more time here with you all than I do with my family. So, I consider many of you to be my real friends and, if we were ever to meet, anyone with us would probably think we were nuts because we could launch directly into a conversation as if we were old friends. - Robert Scoble
One of the reason I like Facebook is its lack of spams, unlike MySpace, which I absolutely dislike. But, I think Facebook doesn't detect spams correctly. An engineer I know with last name "Pancake" couldn't sign up because he was identified as a spammer. His brother on the other hand, same last name, has a Facebook account. Very strange. Maybe, they need to look into it more. - Moushumi Kabir
Tim: if I could add more than 5,000 my engagement over there would go WAY up. I would add many more people who are my "real" friends. People I've done business with. People I've met. Etc. Plus, I wouldn't be depressed every time I look at Facebook. I am a people pleaser and right now I can't please 4,500 people who want me on their social graph. - Robert Scoble
It's easy to say that "business models are easy to come by" ... problem is they're not. I used to talk about this a lot at Mashable... engaged social network users almost *ensure* that an ad based business model will fail. It's not about ad blindness, it's about content sight. The better a social network is, like Facebook, the more tailored to the viewer's interests will the content be. The more interesting the content, the less likely you are to click on ads. That's why Facebook has problems ... - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
... getting the CPMs they need to break even. Their ad click thrus are abysmally low, and they're unwilling to seriously pursue a larger than site-wide behavioral marketing ad network. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Mona, I like FB's new design, especially their news feed. I can upload, update, comment, learn, share, etc. from that section without ever visiting friends' profile pages. - Moushumi Kabir
Robert - Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people who i would have never spoken to if it wasn't for places like LJ, twitter etc. I don't know what I'd be like if this stuff wasn't around. but yeah, everyone is on facebook. even if they dont use it except for spamming BS apps and talking in mobile phone text (fuck i hate that), you're unusual if you're NOT on FB. - Terry O'Fee
Mark, I thought their ad was getting popular. Many of our clients, mid-size to large co, are gearing towards advertising there, to my personal surprise. So, I think FB has succeeded in monetizing while I don't see the same for Twitter and FF. - Moushumi Kabir
Business models may not be easy to come by, but they're easier to come by than millions of users. People move slowly. - Bruce Lewis
that's why I do not share any of my content on Facebook. I only have basic data there. No photos (OK I have a profile picture), no videos. It was easy to set up the account. It will be very easy to leave it too. Keeping the data you care about on a free service is a risk. Your data is not safe there and it kinda becomes "their data". - Davide D'Incau
I recently started up a new FB account b/c I was getting strange adds from somewhere in Egypt literally by the hundreds. FB encourages you to find your friends through importing your address book which obviously just doesn't include private emails, but ph #s and addresses. This I refused to do so resorted to find my friends the old fashioned way through name searches&mutuals. Soon to follow was a warning from FB that I was in violation of their "guidelines" and was in danger of having my account disabled. - sofarsoShawn
They couldn't solve the original adding problem which forced me to start up a new account & now discourage participation. Isn't the whole site supposed to be about "connecting & sharing" w/ your friends as the front page says? Or collecting personal data to shill merchandise. - sofarsoShawn
from facebook terms of use: You understand and agree that the Company may, but is not obligated to, review the Site and may delete or remove (without notice) any Site Content or User Content in its sole discretion, for any reason or no reason, including User Content that in the sole judgment of the Company violates this Agreement or the Facebook Code of Conduct, or which might be offensive, illegal, or that might violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of users or others. You are solely responsible at your sole cost and expense for creating backup copies and replacing any User Content you post or store on the Site or provide to the Company. - Davide D'Incau
This may be childish but I still heart Facebook. Though I enjoy Twitter and FriendFeed, Facebook is more connecting and "safe" since most contacts are people I know in person. Or connected through friends and reliable source like Robert. :-) Although, sharing personal info is still a no-no for me. I'm blown away by very intimate details that I see. Then again, that's a personal choice. :-) - Moushumi Kabir
Unbelievable. Don't trust your stuff to Facebook - Period. - Frank Koehntopp
Robert, someone you know personally. - Tamar Weinberg
MarkCarras: I think the issue is that if you're accumulating friends because of popularity or whatnot, it's not genuine. I have 1400+ Facebook friends. I have more than 400 pending friend requests. Some are even from people on FriendFeed. I won't add them because I don't know them. That's what Fan Pages are for. And I won't message every single one of my pending friends letting them know that I have one. I just let them stay in Pending mode indefinitely. If they discover my fan page, great! - Tamar Weinberg
Granted, if I have a longer-standing relationship with an online friend, I may bend the rules a little bit. But I won't add people SIMPLY because they added me and because they've heard of me through Lifehacker or one of the other online properties I am affiliated with. Those people aren't "friends." They're "fans." I'm not about to throw them in the same kind of network as my husband, close family, and IRL friends. And I don't think Facebook was intended for anyone else to do that either. - Tamar Weinberg
Maybe I'm using Facebook more conventionally. After all, it was open to ONLY three schools when I signed up in April 2004. The people I initially added as friends on FB have the perception that if you add everyone, you're a friend whore. Heck, I don't blame them for thinking along those lines. The 5000 friend limit is a bit generous. - Tamar Weinberg
@Ed Shaz/NextInstinct are you joking? just because of one letter?? - Davide D'Incau
Seriously, with NO warning or explanation. Bad timing too as I was organizing a memorial, only through FB at the time. (won't do that again). I did get one very decent kid through email after a week. But before that, I was a grain of sand on the beach. Not fun. - Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct
I agree with John Rubier's opinion that Facebook only got successful because MySpace became a cesspool. Facebook has a simple interface and looks clean, so "adults" are able to deal with it. MySpace looks like the web equivalent of Vegas at night. And I never add anyone because they have found me on Friendfinder, unless I already know them. I have, however, added my online friends, because I believe some of them are as close to me as my "real" friends. - Francine Hardaway
I understand your frustration with the poorly explained (cryptic even) FB policies, and the opportunity cost of the participation required to gain 4,999 friends (and the corollary conversations, pictures, tags, etc.) but, having accepted the terms of service. I see little recourse. FB has chosen to 'big time' it, as their growth outweighs logical and compassionate attempts at customer service. - Ryan Drewniak
I'm half with Tamar and half not. I don't think Facebook was meant for this kind of mass-friending with people you don't know, so I think she's right on that. On the flipside, I'm not totally opposed to making friends online and won't leave you sitting in a queue forever. Have to know you from SOMEWHERE, though. If you're just friending me to inflate your friend numbers, that's not cool. - Shawn Farner
the lesson learned is you can't trust facebook, w/ any of your data, or as a a reliable service (ie when you can't use the email function) therefore beware facebook connect and keep those agencies separate, unless you want to risk losing that too - sofarsoShawn
lol, Francine...MySpace = Vegas at night...couldn't have said better. I so dislike MySpace, it hurts my eyes. - Moushumi Kabir
"I'm not totally opposed to making friends online and won't leave you sitting in a queue..." Sorry if I implied opposition against making friends online. I get numerous Facebook friend requests daily and have no idea who the heck is friending me. It's my personal preference that I won't accept random people into the same social circle that I share with my husband, family, IRL friends, and colleagues. But I'm not *opposed* to friendship. I just believe that this is the typical Facebook philosophy. - Tamar Weinberg
@Tamar is correct: difference between friends and fans. @Scobleizer, you actually may have 9,000 friends and 40,000 fans so keep soliciting Facebook for increasing their 5,000 friend number. Highly unlikely it will ever happen. But I've been wrong about Facebook before. Peace. ;-) - Barbara K. Baker
The issue is whether or not we need a "nanny" to tell us how to interact on a Social Network. Don't like how someone uses FB? Don't follow them or let them follow you. "limiting" followers is silly... Claiming there's a right way or wrong way to use a social network is presumptuous. If Robert uses it one way, and I another, and you yet another? That's simply how we use the tool. Unless you are somehow infringing on someone else's privacy or rights? No one needs to parent you on the internet. - Lucretia Pruitt
I'm with Lucretia. I don't think it's up to FaceBook to tell Robert Scoble or anyone else what his/her perceptions of friendship should be. I understand that they own the service/disservice and that they are apparently very upfront about their ridiculous standards. That's why I'm rather upfront about my choice to mostly ignore their existence. I've registered on FB in July 2007 and have less than 30 friends. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
This isn't just a social network thing -- this is a cardinal rule of software and system development -- the developer doesn't ever (and should never try to) dictate how a system will be used. You hope your guess on first delivery is close enough to survive, then you pay attention to your users and modify to suit their needs. - Brian Sullivan
I agree with the article and posted on the protest page. Facebook does need rules. But arbitrary based on numbers is bullshit. They need to pay attention or they will go down big time when the other shoe drops and we all have a new fave, which is guaranteed to happen. - David L Smith
@Brian Sullivan: I am LOVING your comment! - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Shawn, I just want to add that it's an issue of trust & comfort. My Facebook page is personal. There are family photos, photos of colleagues of mine at conferences, etc. Most people feel this way too -- that's what somewhat distinguishes FB from other sites (imo). Facebook at first didn't even allow fake profiles at ALL (I'm still a member of a group that paid tribute to the closing of a fictional character's account...) Facebook wasn't launched with the intention of people randomly adding "friends." - Tamar Weinberg
... To that end, I don't want someone to sit in a queue forever either. If I don't know you, though, I prefer to get to know you before inviting you into a personal life of mine that even YOU don't know. That's why I didn't reject your friend request first and am waiting for an opportunity for us to meet face to face. - Tamar Weinberg
I ABSOLUTELY agree with Lucretia that there is no "right" way to use Facebook (well, you shouldn't spam on the service, of course, or harass people, but that's all a given)--but going back to my previous comments here, the site did rise out of a philosophy that you should add REAL friends. It also has a Terms of Service and you have to agree to them to use the service. They reserve the right to do what they want. Would I be pissed if this happened to me? Definitely. Not sure if that'll stop them though. - Tamar Weinberg
Facebook has some definitely social rules that are frustrating - but at the same time at least it isn't the social waste land called MySpace. - Tony
Wow! Its crazy with so much trouble from the FB top, and still so many groups are trying to conduct professional business in there. What would be the main benefits of a FF group over a FB group? - Peter Efland
Maybe he broke the breast feeding ban? That's a no-no. - sofarsoShawn
hahaha...nice one. - Shawn C. Reed
I agree with Terry O'Fee - that's precisely why I use Facebook as a hub when it comes to business. Nothing I have on there can be cut off by them. I can't imagine Joel having done something that would be considered ban-worthy. To the "real friend" issue, it's hard to keep saying no to people who are fans of yours who feel like they're YOUR real friend. It would really make it easier if there was some kind of follow function somewhere. Also, the definition of "friend" in general varies greatly, esp overseas. - Tinu Abayomi-Paul