If you think FriendFeed's community is abusive remember that bloggers had Valleywag to worry about. EVERY online community is abusive. Do I need to remind you how many "I am unfollowing Scoble" Tweets I have seen? They ALL are abusive. And heck, back in college the Unix users made fun of me because I used a "toy computer." you know that as a Mac.
I think this is a poor use of the word "abusive". And Macs ARE Unix boxes now, so of course they do.
- Neal Jansons
Ade: Iran proves that some people just aren't friendly online or off.
- Robert Scoble
What Robert says is true enough. I sometimes wonder why people act like insults and arguments are new and shocking, and I conclude it's because they weren't watching during the UseNet days.
- MiniMage - HLtW
Neal: back then their ire was aimed at GUI's. They thought real computer users used command lines.
- Robert Scoble
I've always been afraid of Internet communities until I discovered FriendFeed.
- Mona Nomura
Oh, people crying wah nowadays should have seen the messageboards on my old hacker BBS when I was kid.
- Neal Jansons
from IM
Peter: the more I get around the more I realize some WOULD say that to you in person. I will take ALL my online abuse vs. An Iranian clubbing.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Re Arrington being spat on -- yeah, but you're a nice guy. :) No, spitting is not nice not matter who it is.
- Diego Barros
I was rather horrified when Mike got spit on...he/his family got threatened, too, if I remember right. People are not nearly as civilized as a lot of us would like to believe.
- Neal Jansons
from IM
Raobert: that's why I am saying we shouldn't call the pixel version abusive...hearing/reading words you don't like or are insulting is not abuse. Kids getting beaten, prisoners being tortured, women being terrorized, etc...that's abuse.
- Neal Jansons
from IM
I think friend feed has a lot of smart people on it. What more can you ask from relative strangers than some degree of civility and intelligence.
- James Watters
Peter: Miriam here on FriendFeed is worrying whether she will see her friends again. She is in Iran. And we are worrying about whether Aaron will stay on Friendfeed or not. How lame we are.
- Robert Scoble
You could have just said "that's quotable" you dumbass :)
- James Watters
Our revolutionary war father's fought against an arrogant king in the dream that someday, we too could kill a Friday night with internet ruminations.
- James Watters
Anna, thanks for following me. I can barely keep up with my blog and my day job --let alone FF. Jesse, thanks for the votes of confidence.
- Jeremiah Owyang
Robert: I think the greatest challenge we all face is to rise above our personal experience and drama and to see it in context or compare it to other far more serious issues being played out. Important to do but not easy
- Peter du Toit (S.Africa)
Prolific: my Maryam is here. Miriam, though, is in Iran.
- Robert Scoble
I'd say that ANYTHING social in nature, since it involves human beings, is bound to be abusive...it's just what people do. Unfortunately.
- Carlton Hackett
I'm not concerned about whether or not Aaron stays or goes. What concerns me is that he thinks if someone's offended by an insult he hurls at a group of people, it's that person's "choice," but if he gets a little back, it's an attack. I will cease to be concerned about that soon enough, though :).
- MiniMage - HLtW
Minimage: that is why I blocked him. I don't have enough time to put up with that.
- Robert Scoble
"It is always easier to blame others than to find blame in yourself, period." - Louis Gray <----YES! And I shall pull a most appropriate quote from "Cyrano de Bergerac" (the original stage play) into the next comment...
- Micah Wittman
"CYRANO: Why, I well believe He dares to mock my nose? Ho! insolent! (He raises his sword): What say you? It is useless? Ay, I know But who fights ever hoping for success? I fought for lost cause, and for fruitless quest! You there, who are you!--You are thousands! Ah! I know you now, old enemies of mine! Falsehood! (He strikes in air with his sword): Have at you! Ha! and Compromise! Prejudice, Treachery!. . . (He strikes): Surrender, I? Parley? No, never! You too, Folly,--you? I know that you will lay me low at last; Let be! Yet I fall fighting, fighting still! (He makes passes in the air, and stops, breathless): You strip from me the laurel and the rose! Take all! Despite you there is yet one thing I hold against you all, and when, to-night, I enter Christ's fair courts, and, lowly bowed, Sweep with doffed casque the heavens' threshold blue, One thing is left, that, void of stain or smutch, I bear away despite you."
- Micah Wittman
"I think friend feed has a lot of smart people on it" - James. This is so very true ;)
- Diego Barros
Neal: verbal abuse is still harmful, even while to a far lesser degree than physical
- Mike Chelen
The "passionate people" thing is a bit of a cop out. It's perfectly possible to be passionate without being an ass about it. It just requires a little empathy or failing that manners.
- Eoghann Irving
I don't think Valleywag ever took potshots at the common man-- or am I wrong?
- Andy DeSoto
Andy: define "common." the common man isn't using a computer yet.
- Robert Scoble
Eoghann: when someone is advocating for taking away my rights that calls for stronger tactics. The Iranian protesters aren't always nice. Sometimes people are wrong and need to be told that in no uncertain terms.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble: someone may have a physical presence in the world with a name but are they really considered "alive" or "human" if they aren't on Facebook, Twitter and FF and have a computer (preferably a Mac) ;)
- Mike Bracco
If "abusive" means that we use the traditional standards of libel, that should be just fine with everyone. This tendency towards standards that don't allow saying anything that could hurt anyone's feelings even if true for public conduct has some pretty bad authoritarian side effects.
- Andy Carrel
We're doing pretty well on the "common man" thing, at least here in the United States. Neilsen Online's last U.S. estimate had 231 million American internet users, which works out to almost 3/4 of the total population. Impressive.
- Chris Baskind
Chris: there are almost seven billion people on earth. Only one out of seven has a computer.
- Robert Scoble
@scobleizer are you counting mobile phones as computers?
- Prolific Programmer
from IM
Yup: Just talking about the United States. It's coming along, though. There are about 1.5 billion people online.
- Chris Baskind
like Tony Montana said "you need people like me". Powerful words, don't forget them.
- iTbay
Prolific: most mobile phones are useless for the web. I don't count those.
- Robert Scoble
In the '80s I used to joke, "How can you tell the difference between a Mac user and a PC user? The Mac users have girlfriends." (So did Amiga users but that's a different story... But then again, that could have been because of the Mac OS emulation. Hehe.)
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
Neal: Online psychological warfare was a pre-runner to multi-player online gaming. If not for my participation on early BBSs, I wouldn't have a practical understanding of logical arguments, cognitive linguistics, emotional triggers, or herd behavior. All of which turned out to be marketable skills.
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
Haha, now that's a point, Mark. I like to think that users got some value out of our BBS (other than plans to build a Blue Box or the latest list of 950 cutout numbers...it was a hacker board, after all).
- Neal Jansons
Heh, if people are arguing with you and abusing you, then you probably are doing something right!
- Malcolm Bastien
Hey, I unfollowed you on twitter, but that's 'coz I already follow you on FF and pretty much 100% of your tweets are from FF. Why duplicate stuff? That ain't abusive!
- Yuvi
Yuvi: unfollowing isn't abusive. Saying you are unfollowing is.
- Robert Scoble
I do remember tweeting about unfollowing you, citing the fact that I get your content on FF anyway. But yeah, I do get your point.
- Yuvi
Chennai, India. Named after my second favourite curry: Madras.
- Mark
Robert: actually very thankful for messages explaining when and why people unfollow me, *if* they are friendly and constructive
- Mike Chelen
Mark: now that macs are used by real computer people, some of them don't have girlfriends either :D
- Mike Chelen
Robert: I think you're letting your pain blur your thinking... be strong, grasshopper! When you said "EVERY online community is abusive." you went a bit overboard... blub, blub, blub! Here's the thing about communities. They DO have characteristics as a group, and some are more friendly than others, as a group, but all groups are made out of very diverse individuals... because even in affinity groups, individuals are still just that. So, saying that "EVERY online community is abusive." is missing the whole point. In every community there are individuals, who are abusive at times. Some of these individuals are abusive more often than others. But that's not what the community is about... the community is about the individuals who make positive contributions, and provide value to the other members... there has to be some type of value glue to hold a community together. Ironically sometime the very same individuals that are abusive can also, at times, make positive contributions. So, what you really meant to say is "It sure suck that EVERY community (online and offline) has people, who are at times, abusive." And I would totally agree, because mean people suck, and it even sucks when good people are mean. I'm an optimist and a pacifist, so my motto is: Hey, just we can't all just get along?
- Fred Davis
Fred, every online community has a group identity that defines it as as a group of 'insiders' versus some 'outside' external to the group. That's what makes it a community. And that's often where the nastiness sets in - in struggles over group identity. I would say that's what makes all online groups 'abusive' in at least some respects.
- Scot Mcphee
It was the same with IRC, same with Usenet and the same even with the BBS's - if you were an outsider, then some others may flame you or make your online life suck. Nothing new here...
- dannystaple
Be nice if everyone came online to help each other out IMAGINE
- John Sullivan
It is unfortunate that so many believe abuse - whether verbal, emotional or physical - is acceptable. The greatest issue of ours or any time is not the pursuit of money - it is the pursuit of power over others.
- Internet Strategist
In the 1980's I started with a Mac 512K, a printer and two floppy drives, at $3,300.00 it seemed a bit pricey. But my engineer peers in Hollywood bought PC's, and it took them hours of configuring just to print! Smug me just printed my reports and went home! WYSIWYG was awesome...
- Nicholas Chase
@Internet Strategist: Don't be so certain people are accepting abuse. What I'm dismissing is the notion that coming to FriendFeed opens one up to much more abuse than one could've ever encountered on the internet. I may not know much about social media, but I joined so many listservs in 1993 that I had to go through over 150 emails a day, & I saw nastiness then. From there, I moved to MUDding, IRC, & UseNet, & then the web came along. People sometimes got nasty everywhere. To think anything else is silly.
- MiniMage - HLtW
I am unfollowing Scoble because of this abusive comment. It has mortally offended me, and I am seeing my lawyer. And if you believe that, I have this bridge I can sell you... :)
- Ian Betteridge
+1 on the Unix users were right. :]
- Mark Woodson