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Robert Scoble › Likes
Lots of Google stuff this week. My fave four: 1. Chrome OS released as open-source. 2. US caselaw added to Google Scholar. 3. Real-time translation as you type at translate.google.com, plus romanization and text-to-speech. 4. Auto-captions (speech recognition) on YouTube and auto-timing (upload video transcript, get accurate time code alignment).
H0llywoodWh0re, Lizunlong, ovigia and 11 other people liked this
Links: 1. Chromium OS: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009... 2. US caselaw: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009... 3. As-you-type translation: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009... 4. Auto-captions & Auto-timing: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009...
- Matt Cutts
And a bonus video: http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2009... More detailed Google Earth models based on StreetView imagery.
- Matt Cutts
I love the new Real-time translation. I found less usefull the new adsense panel layout (you know.. now i have to wear glasses to check the old things.. but it's only a css issue, so...). :)
- Seo (ignobile) Guru
I think it would be nice of Google Translate offered an automatic reverse translation. Also, if I type in my language and get something translated into a language I don't speak, what good is the text to speech version to me? I can't understand it. Am I supposed to record it and post the sound file somewhere?
- SuezanneC Baskerville
12 Thanksgiving iPhone Apps Worth Checking Out - http://www.bonafidereviews.com/blog...
Roberto Bonini and Robert Scoble liked this
Open as in water, the fluid necessary for life - http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009...
lgalli, Robert Scoble, Hutch Carpenter and 34 other people liked this
When is Facebook going to give people open access to the address book? :)
- Bindu Reddy
They already do. My DROID syncs with my Facebook and Google contacts, converging them both for the same contact on either network. Don't ask me how that's done though
- LANjackal
You mean your DRIOD can get to the email addresses of your facebook contacts?
- Bindu Reddy
""Open" is a great thing. Everyone likes it." Maybe everyone you know ;)
- Clare Dibble
a friend of mine has a bb storm and it integrates w/ facebook (when i call him, my facebook avatar shows up... etc etc) -- the Droid being able to combine contact lists and merge them when applicable sounds like the next step
- Chris Heath
It's still not open. That data is locked into the built in contacts app and you can't get it at an api level. Android 2.0 has a complete (well, half-baked) contact model that allows aggregating contact info. Not to mention that when I entered my contact info into facebook that I understood it was going to be shared that way. But from an end-user standpoint it's great!
- Hayes Haugen
@LANJackal that sounds great... I guess my information is dated than..
- Bindu Reddy
Very great post. One of the best. This share remember me with two other great peoples described by Katie Hafner is his book (Where the wizards stay up late): Vint Cerf (you known what i mean) and Dave Clark (by his famous quote : "we reject kings presidents and voting. we believe in rough consensus and running code.") With an "open" mind like yours, they make with days, months, years, a very great open life fluid. I'm very happy to follow you. As Louis Gray says : Please keep blogging. Thank you.
- Guy Vander Heyden
Chrome OS will help kill Silverlight and other non-open tech, preventing msft and others from recapturing the web. (though I expect that it will support Flash by necessity)
Vladimir Yashnikov, Dan Douglass, Burak Çelebi and 148 other people liked this
Good point.
- Robert Scoble
I hope it doesn't. After all we need good media delivery platforms.
- Swaroop
Including GNASH - the open source alternative - would solve that problem
- Bogdan Costea
yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it.
- Zio Bonino
Chrome OS might be a compelling case for SVG/<canvas> + <audio> tag replacements for flash. Dunno what SVG's perf is like on WebKit tho.
- Matt Mastracci
Microsoft will port it. It's all about codecs & DRM. Ogg Theora isn't all that great.
- Rodfather
Is that Steve Jobs disguised as Zio ?
- Swaroop
@Swaroop Yes, we do. Like HTML5.
- Benjamin Dobson
@Swaroop eh eh, I've got flash disabled on all my systems :)
- Zio Bonino
@Benjamin I'd prefer HTML web apps over native apps anyday. But it'll take time for it to mature
- Swaroop
Rodfather, I don't think that will be an option for msft :). If Chrome is built the way I would do it, there is no installation per-se -- everything runs in the browser and the config in stored in the cloud (and cached locally). The computer is a pure appliance.
- Paul Buchheit
@Zio You're the real Steve Jobs
- Swaroop
Microsoft moves much too slow to force new standards these days.
- Louis Gray
@Louis: IE8 flunking ACID test :)
- Swaroop
What about more standard codecs like h.264? That isn't open and is in hardware already.
- Rodfather
h.264 is established and must be in there, but it's not a platform like Silverlight is.
- Paul Buchheit
A world with no Flash and Silverlight. I can't wait.
- Paul Grav
Yeah, it's too bad they didn't open-source it. This stuff with Mono is silly -- if you want to make a real standard you need to make the real implementation be open.
- Paul Buchheit
MS are about 10 years too late with Silverlight. And they'll most likely be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting HTML5.
- Paul Grav
Zio sez (hopefully humorously): "yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it" -- have you ever watched a single YouTube video in your life? Like seventeen gazillion other people across the wired world. yeah, you're right, nobody needs Flash. ha!
- .LAG liked that
Remember Dave Clark in 1992, "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code."
- Guy Vander Heyden
.LAG: most YouTube videos are playable without Flash now. My iPhone plays most of them and it doesn't have Flash. Certainly by the time the Google OS came out YouTube would be converted completely to non-Flash capability.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: The youtube flash application helps read the flv files on Youtube's servers and provides a UI (decoder too).
- Swaroop
Even Google admits they're not sure I'd bit for bit html5 video is less bandwitj consuming than flash. And flash isn't just media delivery, also interesting games and apps like tonepad, splicemusic.com's online sequencer, etc (I'm musically inclined, so most of my examples will be along that line) and please don't suggest we redo it all in java
- Ed F
from Nambu
Does this mean the next Silverlight release is codename Seppuku?
- Jay Cuthrell
Maybe we'll see commercials encoded in movies if everything is open.
- Rodfather
Flash is too established to kill off right now, so I'd be surprised if Chrome didn't include flash support. It will take many years to get rid of that thing. First they need to fix the standard browser to not be so broken (lack of video, multi-file upload, etc), then they need everyone to switch to the new html5 solutions.
- Paul Buchheit
Scoble ...that may be true, and YouTube plays on my Pre without Flash (yet)...but that doesn't mean that "nobody needs Flash." really? what would replace it?
- .LAG liked that
So Google's NaCl http://code.google.com/p... (now integrated within Chrome/Chromium) was just a temporary workaround, right?
- Jérôme Flipo
Use HTML 5 instead!
- Minh Bui
Is it just me or does Native Client (NaCl) remind you of the Microsoft Active X approach?
- Daniel Chow
But who prevents Google from taking over the net?
- Andreas
youtube videos play on iPhone/iPod Touch as they are higher res mp4 files NOT flv files. It was a big deal when Steve negotiated that deal with youtube.
- vijay
You have Moonlight to run Silverlight applications in Linux. Not perfect, but then an application made on Silverlight is "not perfect" by definition
- Marcos Marado
The point here is that Google has no motivation to include Silverlight on these machines, and installing software likely won't be an option (it's a web appliance), so it will be absent from a lot of netbooks, just as it is absent from iPhones. That cuts into market share, which is a bad thing for a platform that is trying to compete with more universal tech like Flash and HTML....
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- Paul Buchheit
@DanielChow: NaCl has very little overlap with ActiveX, apart from running native code. It runs in a provably safe way, and explicitly does *not* allow it to access arbitrary host APIs. But it can be quite useful when you need to run code that would be too slow in Javascript (even on v8): e.g., heavy encryption/decryption, possibly codecs, definitely game physics, and so forth.
- Joel Webber
There is a time and a place for Flash and Silverlight so I hope it will run it. There are simply some things you can do which aren't possible, or practical in html/css/javascript.
- Steve Temple
Paul: why wouldn't Chrome OS come with Moonlight? And if not, why wouldn't you be able to just install it? And third, why the hell would people want Moonlight for? I never installed it and not even once felt the need to!
- Marcos Marado
from fftogo
because of moonlight http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlig... the potential userbase of silverlight is greatly improved, agree that projects which don't consider compatibility are limiting their potential
- Mike Chelen
@mindboosternoori Ryanair site uses silverlight: http://www.ryanair.com/site... that's the only website I know that uses it - for this you would need moonlight :)
- Ihar Mahaniok
Flash is needed for the google os to be useful in education. Many education based websites are flash based.
- Willowdale
@Paul "Google is probably paying OEMs to ship with this OS, so instead of paying $x/machine to include windows XP, they will get paid $y/machine to include Chrome." - paying present tense, already? Isn't it enough for OEMs not to have to pay hefty licenses to Redmond, etc., while being able to ship with a free, stable OS+browser combo; they need to be paid to do that as well?
- ianf ⌘
I sure hope so. I think the wide array of JavaScript libraries have been killing Flash for years. Silverlight was never really a player. The only think keeping Flash afloat is video
- Scott Radcliff
I don't know what's under the hood of Silverlight (nobody knows), but Flash is basically a sprite engine controlled by Actionscript, which is basically an adapted version of Javascript anyway. It's nicely packaged though, and has an army of developers, so it won't go away that easily, at least not until there are Flash-to-Canvas/ HTML5 porting tools/ translators and the like.
- ianf ⌘
to follow that logic...photoshop is needed as well
- Chris Hofmann
somebody call me when http://playboyarchive.com is working in Chrome OS (it's currently implemented in Silverlight)
- Karim
If it gains any traction at all, MS will just make Silverlight version that will run on Google OS. Sure google could block it, but they haven't done so with the Chrome browser.
- Jeff Weber
Interesting. I doubt the Google OS will get that big anytime soon though.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
Silverlight doesn't have a chance now...I wonder what would Adobe Air do.
- Saad Kamal
not really, if google want to be open then they will need a plugin architecture for it and then MS could just port for it. I really don't see this troubling mainstream users any time soon.
- Darren Stuart
Though I agree with the view that MS monopoly may erode as alternative devices get adoption over PC/Notebook, and these devices will mostly run on open source OS, but it may take years to create a significant change in every day usage of normal users. In the end, OS choice is mostly done by manufacturers, and they would be happy to get paid by open source vendors for putting their OS on...
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- Kaan Bingol
People want media. Hulu, Netflix, Kindle, iTunes, etc. They need to address that or they are DOA.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, what makes you think it will lack media support?
- Paul Buchheit
I don't think it will lack licensed media support but what deals they are able to make will be crucial.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, i thought you were going to say that Netflix was using Silverlight. ;-)
- Karim
Yes, they are, what is their deal with MSFT? Can they do non Silverlight distribution?
- Hayes Haugen
i believe the Netflix non-Silverlight distribution is a format called "DVD" that works over the "Snail Mail" protocol. ;-) but clearly if Google is paying OEMs to install Chrome OS, they can pay Netflix to go back to Flash which Chrome OS will probably support "by necessity" ;-)
- Karim
How can Google make money from Chrome OS? Or does it want to make money from it except through advertisement? I still can not imagine that all software and service are free and sponsored by advertisements.
- Derek Wei
All Chrome OS questions are answered by today's Fake Steve Jobs ;)
- Hayes Haugen
Is there a need to make money? If more and more people eschew desktop offline applications in favor of online web based apps, it means more pageviews, more eyeballs, more advertising inventory, plus has the side effect of undermining a big competitor's cash cow.
- Ray Cromwell
That's the key, Google wants everything online. They figure the more people online, the stronger they become, and the more money they make. At least that what was said at the Chrome launch.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
I'm amused that the "backwards compatibility" argument against alternative operating systems has slowly turned into "does it support flash", and when you unpack that it really means "does it play YouTube". I suspect Google will make sure ChromeOS cna play YouTube and they don't need Flash to make sure of it.
- Nick Lothian
Is it possible that Microsoft will write Office for the Web using Volta instead of Silverlight? Could be a showcase announcement for their attack on GWT
- Ray Cromwell
I think Microsoft is going to focus less on the front-end of the web and more on the back-end, middle tier and database sides. Azure is a big deal that consumers aren't talking about because it's not flashy but will be pretty important to developers (and especially enterprise-level applications) when it's finally ready because everything becomes an interface to the cloud. Microsoft is...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
Azure looks really cool. Hint: so did Blackbird.
- Michael R. Bernstein
lol blackbird (scary redmond flashback) - a good example of azure platform utilization can be seen via jon udell's elmcity project - http://blog.jonudell.net/elmcity...
- mike "glemak" dunn
Nosense, I want silverlight, flash, html and any other technology in my desktop & mobile phone. Silverlight? yes, there you can develop under Python, Ruby et al, instead of the outdated javascript.
- Sebastian Wain
Good Point, Paul. The web has to be free from proprietary software. And to h.264, sorry OGG Theora is free and superior.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
It looks like with Native Client, you should be able to write your Chrome OS app in any language you feel like. So far, they have some examples in C/C++, but one of the things they ported is a Lua interpreter. If Adobe isn't going to invest heavily in fixing the show-stopping bugs on non-Windows versions of Flash, it's inevitably going to die, and there's really nothing either Google or Apple can do even if they wanted to support Flash better.
- Victor Ganata
...ActionScript3 is ECMASCript-compliant. I know nothing about standards bodies, and shii like that, but what if Adobe dropped ActionScript and said, "You can now use pure Javascript to build Flash applications..." It wouldn't be a big leap. I'm pretty sure that would shut-up all the Flash haters. And to the folks who say Flash is hanging around just because of video...well, video is...
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- .LAG liked that
Actionscript is just the glue for the more advanced what-iffy graphic functionality of Flash. They can not drop it for Javascript, because it contains additional graphic primitives that JS lacks. But it's not the JS-or-Actionscript that makes it a target for hate, it's other things. Nobody denies that it's pretty capable, but it is also badly written, eats up memory like no other, makes...
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- ianf ⌘
I like this post!
- Mohammad Abdurraafay
from iPhone
I honestly don't know how necessary Flash is. Apple seems to be doing fine without supporting it. But certainly Gnash and Swfdec should be implementable on Chrome OS. The fact is that without Adobe's full support on a given platform, Flash apps will always be second class citizens on alternate platforms, and so far, there's no indication that Adobe is interested in fully supporting any platform other than Windows.
- Victor Ganata
ianf ...you bring up great points about Flash's detriments, as does Victor, but until there's a better way to bring video to the Web, I can't see it disappearing. Adobe seems to keep improving the Flash VM, hopefully they'll address those CPU-hogging issues and make a more efficent runtime. Yeah, I hate hearing the fans kick-in when visiting a Flash-heavy site too. <sigh>
- .LAG liked that
alternative to flash video such as ... html5 :) (requires ff3.5) http://www.dailymotion.com/openvid...
- Mike Chelen
from IM
Ed, only??? thats one of the main reasons cited for the continued requirement of flash on popular sites like youtube
- Mike Chelen
Ed, those other uses can be accomplished through pure Javascript, video was the last remaining stumbling block
- Mike Chelen
Still waiting on non-Flash recreations of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... Well aware of how someone mentioned higher up how you can combine javascript and svg to get nifty flash-like effects. I want apps like that though ^ Only real alternatives I've seen are Java-based ones, and those runs even slower than Flash.
- Ed F
Pardon me, but the OP is a ridiculous conclusion. For that to be the case, Chrome OS would have to kill Windows, OS X, etc altogether. Paul, I understand your viewpoint as being an ex-Google person, but that's just NOT going to happen. Right now the video specification from HTML5 has been dropped because of an impasse, meaning that we may be transitioning from 1 closed-source boss - Flash - to another - H264. Good luck.
- LANjackal
But why do these type of apps have to be written in Flash at all? You can easily do the same thing in C, C++, ObjC, Python, Ruby, etc., with the Native Client API that they're building for Chrome. http://code.google.com/p...
- Victor Ganata
I'm just saying, it's not like Flash is the end-all/be-all. As Apple well demonstrates, some people can live quite well without it.
- Victor Ganata
Victor ...i think the answer to the 'why do these have to be written in Flash at all' question is because Flash is installed on such a significant portion of Web browsers. But I recall that Adobe Flex had a competitor, Laszlo/OpenLaszlo, which compiled apps to SWF or to Javascript. Who's to say that Adobe doesn't have the same capability of making SWF apps into JS ones? On one hand, it...
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- .LAG liked that
Ed, such apps are possible with Javascript and HTML5 multimedia features, the question will be how difficult developers find it, and whether the performance is fast enough
- Mike Chelen
LANjackal, there is a question of degree in that Flash + H264 uses proprietary software and codec, while HTML5 + H264 requires only the codec. while OGV is no longer part of the spec, it can certainly still be used to have completely open video formats, and recent comparisons have shown it performs well http://people.xiph.org/~maikme...
- Mike Chelen
Silverlight's 3 is looking pretty impressive today but tend to agree
- Charlie Anzman
What everybody seems to be missing about Flash is that it works because there is one implementation which is mostly backwards-compatible and the same across platforms. It beat Java because, among other reasons, Java just didn't work the same across JVMs and platforms. The problem with HTML5 is that it will have a different implementation for every browser, and that means your app/game...
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- Gabe
Paul, don't you prefer brutal competition SL vs. Flash vs. standards bring to the table by definition? Or are you more into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - 2020 Google Union - type of ideology?
- Kari Honkanen
Kari, I don't understand your question. Competition is good, but with open-source we get that -- no need for flash or SL.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, no, we don't get the same level of competition with open-source only. As long as there's an opportunity for big gains (like in this case to bridge the gap before html 5 era...to satisfy demand), there will be innovations driven by that. I believe we all benefit from a free market economy that includes commercial, closed source, innovations. I am more scared of the possible future...
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- Kari Honkanen
I wouldn't worry too much amount multimedia. By exposing WebGL, (and hopefully OpenCL), you can offload a lot of compute intensive stuff onto the GPU via GPGPU techniques, and NativeClient is there to take up the rest of the slack, but the for the vast majority of iPhone-like games, I'm willing to bet V8 Javascript on a modern processor is more than enough. That leaves licensing issues...
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- Ray Cromwell
Paul, so are you saying that Google will block both Flash and Silverlight from ChromeOS? That's a new take on 'open.'
- Cliff Gerrish
MSFT next smart move: get Chrome OS (it's BSD licensed), inject IE9 and Silverlight into it and go benchmark against Chrome :)
- Claudio Cicali ♋
MSFT sucks Claudio :)
- Orlando Pozo
Something feels contradictory about a system touted to 'kill' competitors being 'open'. Sounds almost predatory to me.
- Karoli
I'm not opposed to non-open software, but for OS, browser, etc I prefer that it be open. Cliff, Google isn't going to "block" anything, but they can certainly choose what to include, and my guess is that they won't include SL. As Claudio points out, MSFT can make their own version of ChromeOS that includes SL, which is why open source software is nice (it can't be crippled too much or else someone will fork it).
- Paul Buchheit
I have heard somewhere that Fash uses it's own port where Silverlight works over the HTTP port. That's why Netflix works so well. To that, Flash costs more on a sever side because providers can charge more for that port traffic. Could it come down to who is cheaper? (I am fully prepared to be wrong).
- Johnny Worthington
Johnny, they both use HTTP -- there's no difference there.
- Paul Buchheit
Is Chrome OS BSD-licensed? I thought it was using a Linux kernel.
- Victor Ganata
@Paul - well, Flash can do P2P stuff over non-HTTP posts, but that is very new (Flash 10 I think). The cost isn't affected anyway.
- Nick Lothian
My understanding is that netbooks would have to be absurdly popular for Chrome OS to make a dent in the popularity of Flash or SL.
- Gabe
it is possible to have smaller groups for open source software, such as google's own gears api http://code.google.com/apis...
- Mike Chelen
How is HTML 5 going to defeat Flash and SL? I haven't used it, but I don't see anything in the spec that looks like it could compare.
- Gabe
@Gabe - what do you think HTML5 is missing? It does video, drawing, local storage, "threading" via WebWorkers. The biggest hole I'm aware of is the lack of access to webcams & microphones. What have I missed?
- Nick Lothian
Nick: When you say HTML 5 has "drawing", are you refering to the Canvas element? I would not consider an immediate-mode procedural raster drawing library to be much of a competitor to retained-mode declarative vector libraries like SVG or Silverlight. Programming with the Canvas tag is sort of the equivalent of programming in assembly language for bitmaps.
- Gabe
@Gabe: I think you've got it upside-down. A Canvas-style API is the fundamental basis on which you can build a retained mode structure like SVG, et al. If a platform includes a retained-mode library as a convenience, so be it. You can build SVG on Canvas, but not the other way around (hacks like IECanvas notwithstanding -- they have horrible performance characteristics and are a nasty abstraction inversion).
- Joel Webber
So, if Moonlight (Mono) runs on linux -- Will google make sure it doesn't work on Chrome OS?
- Cliff Gerrish
Joel: I don't think you said anything contrary to what I said. I just don't understand why any programmer would want to waste time writing an app using a low-level library when I could use a high-level library that implements everything for me.
- Gabe
@Gabe - I agree, and people are implementing those libraries now. See http://raphaeljs.com/ for example. Also, don't underestimate the convenience factor. I don't own any Flash development tools, but my text editor works pretty well for Canvas+JS based stuff.
- Nick Lothian
Nick: Didn't the author of raphael have some massive rant about how bad the Canvas element is? And I don't have any Flash dev tools either, but I use a text editor for most of my Silverlight development. It is incredibly convenient to be able to type something like <DataGrid ItemsSource="{Binding tabledata}"/> into a text editor and not have to create the data grid myself.
- Gabe
Why is Flash a "necessity" for an OS? I enjoy what flash can do, but it is like putting pimped out leather Oldsmobile seats in a Ferrari. It would definitely be nice, but certainly not a necessity.
- Dan Douglass
Early post goof up. To your original point, I agree. I like how Google is approaching the internet space with web apps that can be run with out a bloated browser.
- Dan Douglass
Dan Douglass: Flash is necessary because so many web sites rely on it. How many people would want to get a netbook that couldn't play FaceBook games or watch YouTube videos? Of course Google is in the unique position of being able to make YouTube work on ChromeOS without Flash, but they probably can't do anything about Hulu, Vimeo, or any of the other video sites out there that require Flash.
- Gabe
sofarsoShawn to sofarsoShawn's feed, Senat Populusqu Roman, Twitter, FriendFeed Feedback, Social Media
"Let’s Watch Twitter Become FriendFeed" RT @centerworks - now the inevitable ironic "lol" insertion - http://www.centernetworks.com/lets-wa...
Daniel Rowley, etag, Robert Scoble and 8 other people liked this
"It seems the hot Twitter news of the day is that the service might be slowing in U.S. growth. You can read the Twitter stats story on Mashable and TheNextWeb. Earlier in the week the big news for the so-called social media experts was the on and off status of the new “retweet architecture system”. Twitter turned it on for many users (I was not one of them) but then turned it off so they could fix some bugs. Apparently there are two camps when it comes to the new retweets…one camp likes the consolidated concept and the other camp hates it because they can’t add their 2-cents to the conversation. My guess is that 90% of re-sharing on Twitter is either direct sharing of something Mashable posted or the addition of “lol”. This past summer I wrote about how Friendfeed could generate massive income and also reach the mainstream. Sadly that never happened because Friendfeed sold out to Facebook. While it looks like Facebook wasn’t reading, this morning I started to think that perhaps...
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- sofarsoShawn
wow i didnt' think that friendfeed allowed complete scraping :( but thanks for sharing.
- Allen Stern
I saw the 'retweet it' button in twitter and I miss it. It is easy to do one-click retweet rather than typing in RT @nameofperson here. Lets say you are retweeting a message you are looking up in somebodys profile page on twitter that is several tweets down on the page and not from your incoming tweet stream/time line. The retweet it link is a huge timesaver. I dont understand why anybody would oppose it.
- TrafficBug
It's a great article (very funny too) & I hope it doesn't go unnoticed it's thorough in its appraisal of the ReTweet issue & in the overall larger issues at play. Taking note of the disproportionate @mashable ReTweets's ~ when'd he become a cell for the Twitter Jihad? Following the RT tree they originate of course from mashable then his proselytes errr or ummm I mean his writers &...
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- sofarsoShawn
I don't mean to name drop here but do you know Leo? Or @LeoLaporte :) Funny guy, well he had an awesome share on pagerank http://ff.im/3Y0S7 "Judge me by my PageRank, do you?" Helllll yeah we do! Mashable's just perfecting it's manipulation via Twitter.
- sofarsoShawn
great, "likes"/retweet feature down, now twitter only needs: comment threading, realtime updates, foaf, multimedia embed, groups, email integration, and search that works for things older than a couple weeks, then it will really be the same as friendfeed :D
- Mike Chelen
I think Twitter also really needs to get rid of 140 chars limit ... what is it there for?? to bother people? have a 'more' button, so that user can 'locally' roll out the remainder of a post over 140
- Petr Buben
The character limit is so that tweets fit within the constraints of every SMS service around the world. You can literally start using Twitter by sending a text to 40404 (or your country's short code) without ever visiting the site. 100% platform portability is one of the major reasons it's done so well.
- David Chartier
from iPhone
Petr: the character limit becomes less noticeable after ongoing use because any longer text can be broken into multiple posts, which are unlimited in number. however this runs into the issue of comment threading and difficulty in following a conversation, which remains ones of twitter's limits in comparison with other platforms
- Mike Chelen
right .... multiple tweets is not going to help it. and would they somehow also point to each other, to be accessible if one is displayed alone?? - a mess. ... a simple solution is that 'more' button :] .... hey, we might even call it a censorship, a constitutional rights matter :] ..... it is darn silly to express oneself in 140- chars .. it might damage the intellect of tweeters == and let Twitter make all optional - to turn on 'more', to turn on 140+ chars ...
- Petr Buben
That's hilarious @petrbuben the 140 character limit equates to either genius aphoristically speaking (there's been maybe 5 people in history who can claim as much) but is more likely the obverse, at least link to a url where there's further explanation or if you can fit a cohesive thought into 140 characters, you should probably expand your mind, so to speak
- sofarsoShawn
Writing quality depends on much more than length :P
- Mike Chelen
How Facebook's News Feed Failed Me (And My Family) - http://blog.louisgray.com/2009...
Michael R. Bernstein, Daniel Rowley, Lu Tao and 13 other people liked this
Congratulations on being an uncle, Louis! Did your family assume you'd see the Facebook updates and that's why they didn't call? I just can't imagine one of my siblings giving birth without an actual phone call from a relative, but maybe I'm an old fuddy-duddy and my family is not as online as yours is.
- Stephen Mack
*poke*
- Johnny Worthington
It's an odd thing. Yes, they assumed we would see the FB updates. They also thought it wasn't their news to announce/call everyone (yet FBing was okay). If you remember when we had our twins, we too started with Twitter/FF, but that was due to it being 1 a.m. We called everyone in the morning.
- Louis Gray
found that pouring facebook status updates into Feedly via RSS, and prioritising a 'friends' category (which includes blogs etc) works better than trawling through the live feed, or news feed, or whatever. Not sure if there's a way to RSS photo stories yet, nor profile changes, but notifications and status updates work a treat. But I can imagine the chagrin of having your family deprioritised for you.
- Rob Kramer
i like the movement of the hands in the video!
- Allen Stern
lulz@ Stephen Mack
- LarchOye
sorry to hear about the missed event, but congratulations to you and your family. I'm glad everything worked out well. Btw, I found a little lost kitten...
- Jim Hearts FF
I've made a Family feed and set it as my default for exactly this reason; they use Facebook for sharing when they feel they *need* to or when something important happens, and so aren't posting every day and it gets lost in the stream of friends', colleagues' and Page updates.
- Andrew Terry
this is exactly why I don't follow thousands on Facebook. My whole stream is valuable to me as a result.
- Bill Kinney
I didn't even know the "news feed" was supposed to gauge relevance or was different than the old wall. I don't get Facebook. I do use lists, that has helped a tiny bit, but my nieces use Facebook so heavily that they still push other Family content off the first page of that list. You didn't actually expect Facebook to perform as well as Friendfeed in this instance, did you?
- Laura Norvig
It doesn't gauge relevance, it gauges interest. Items with more comments and likes and such get pushed to the News Feed. If all you browse is the News Feed, then you're only seeing the highlights. I would have thought this was perfectly clear. The Live Feed is the same as the old News Feed: noisy as hell, just like it was before. I believe the News Feed algorithm also takes into account who you regularly interact with (by liking, leaving comments, etc) and bumps them up the list as well.
- Otto
I recognize the way that Facebook tries to gauge interest. They correctly noted that I had previously ignored my sister's updates, and assumed the latest updates would be similarly irrelevant. The major point is that in the live feed scenario, I would have had multiple opportunities to see the updates, whereas in the news feed scenario, I never did.
- Louis Gray
I would love to be able to select the lists (of friends) that will contribute to my news and live feeds (unselected friend posts would NOT appear). The ability to "tune the noise" of individuals via comments and likes (like friendfeed) would also be extremely helpful.
- Chris Myles
You can bias the feeds more towards certain people. Just go to the bottom of the feed and click Edit Options. On the left hand side of the box is "Show More" with a user dialog in it. Type the name of the person you want to see more of to add them to the more list. The right hand side is a block list, if you want to not see somebody's updates. Blocking somebody blocks them from both feeds. Showing somebody more only seems to apply to the News Feed as far as I can tell.
- Otto
Otto, I have played with those options and they do help.. but the noise still gets through. With block, it's all or nothing, they disappear from ALL lists. I want to block (lists of) people from the primary feeds, but still have them available in other lists, for those (rare) moments when I have extra time.
- Chris Myles
Feld Thoughts : I'm A WordPress Fanboy - http://www.feld.com/wp...
Daniel Rowley, lalui and Robert Scoble liked this
"Welcome to the family. :)"
- Matt Mullenweg
odily4ritaa@yahoo.co.uk hello My name is Rita Odily ,i saw your profile today and became interested in you,i will also like to know you the more and i want you to send an email to my privet email address so i can send you my picture for you to know whom i am. Here is my email address(odily4ritaa@yahoo.co.uk) I believe we can move from here! I am waiting for your mail to my privet email address above. see your reply soon. Rita
- rita odily
100 Ways to Measure Social Media - http://www.marketersstudio.com/2009...
Daniel Rowley, Robert Scoble, Laura Norvig and .LAG liked that liked this
Video: Arm Chair Reaches 98,268 Feet in New Toshiba Commercial - http://gizmodo.com/5405517...
Boiled Frog, Daniel Rowley, Robert Scoble and 8 other people liked this
The video is beautiful and awesome.
- Kevin Fox
from Bookmarklet
Introduction to Tart — a general-purpose, strongly-typed programming language - http://viridia.org/project...
Troy Benohanian, Tracy, Micah Wittman and 26 other people liked this
I hadn't heard of this one before -- apparently its from Python people. Soundss nice! "Some of these motivations are: * The desire for a language that would combine the simplicity and readability of Python with the power of static typing and template metapgrogramming, as well as modern language features such as closures and generic functions. * The desire for a compiler that compiles to highly efficient native code instead of a VM. * The desire for a language which would fulfill the same role as C++, but designed from scratch with the benefit of hindsight. * The desire for a language which would fulfill the same role as Java, but more concise and requiring less verbose boilerplate."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
Is there a provision for types that are dynamically bound, or is it all strongly-typed?
- Cristo
I wonder if the the nullable? feature is just as much as PITA as const in C++.
- Gary Burd
oh i was thinking how could i have liked it when i haven't even read it in recent times, good work http://friendfeed.com/jimminy
- ffcode
oh, R is going to like this, he's all for strongly typed languages. has it got aspects?
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Gary: My experience with C# makes me suspect that explicitly nullable references are going to be the occasional annoyance, not the plague of C++'s const.
- Gabe
what is going on? a new language every week! there would not be enough computers in this world to run all these languages
- Tzury Bar Yochay
Still reinventing the wheel, are we? This really puzzles me to no end..why do they think they need to create more 3rd generation programming languages like Google Go & now this "Tart" thing, when what we really need are everyday useful 4GL and 5GL languages/systems/frameworks that would really move us forward. If we keep things going the way these guys are, THE MACHINES WIN..
- Alex Schleber
Alex: What defines a 4GL or 5GL such that languages like Go, Tart, and C# don't qualify?
- Gabe
Gabe, if your average C programmer isn't confused by them, they don't qualify as 4GL or 5GL languages. ;)
- Cristo
Looks interesting. I tried to find this "Talin" person and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... As fascinating as proteins are, I don't think an individual one is up to creating a programming language. :-)
- Ruchira S. Datta
Ruchira, you might find these links helpful: http://viridia.org/ and http://www.sylvantech.com/talin...
- Michael R. Bernstein
Docs Are Old-School, We Need PageRank for People - http://threeminds.organic.com/2009...
nathan, Daniel Rowley, Chris Heath and 84 other people liked this
"PageRank assigns a reputation score to the URL where content is published. This makes it a great fit for content that stays put in one location. However, evolving content distribution via blogs, RSS, guest columns, and syndication are a challenge for PageRank. Tweets, retweets, micropublishing, ratings, and comments - even bigger problems. The solution lies in associating reputation with the identity of the author - a PageRank for People."
- Leo Laporte
from Bookmarklet
Reminds me of "wuffie" where personal reputation replaces monetary wealth in Cory Doctorow's DOWN AND OUT IN THE MAGIC KINGDOM.
- Liam Watts
I love that comic. Makes me chukle every time.
- Roberto Bonini
Doctors are catching on to this and have slipped a "patient will not post online comments about doctor" clause into their standard forms. You don't even know you've agreed to it unless you read the whole thing, and who does that?
- jjjobst
Desirable, but immensely difficult: how do you define a "person" for rank purposes? We are talking here about a huge collection of disparate things. And, what if, contrary to the online reputation, the real reputation sucks?
- Nikos Anagnostou
Agree that we need a soltion for this but a Nikos touches upon is need to agree definitions of scope. Others male valid point also some further discussion and thinking required.
- Najeeb Mirza
PersonRank tied to (possibly) OpenId anyone? ...Everytime I click „Like“ FF brain is assigning whuffie to the author of a message.
- Mindaugas Dagys
Great analogy Liam. Loved that book.
- dthree
Doesn't Googles Sentiment Analysis a step in the right direction? It infers sentiment to rank http://www.seobythesea.com/... and “service,” “value,” and “general comments.” Aspects are defined in one of Google’s papers on sentiment analysis as “properties of an object that can be rated by a user.” Unfortunately, Google is attempting to Patent this process.
- Greg
"But you shouldn't !"
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Yup. This made me think of "Down and out in the Magic Kingdom" too. If you haven't read it, it's worth it.
- Chad McCoskey
I would say not desirable - relevance is highly relative when it comes to people, and frankly anything that ranks people by the noise they make online and how many people they can get to claim they are great... will produce the wrong kind of behaviour
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
I agree with Joelle, mostly. The exceptions would be for trolls and spammers -- it's too much work to be on a constant lookout for trolling, and I'd really like to have an automatic metric which would enable me to automatically filter out such rubbish.
- Nathaniel Thurston
leo: yes indeed, and such a content filter would work well by taking into account the distance through the social graph between the author and each reader, rather than using a fixed measure of the author's reputation for all readers.
- Bob Hitching
from fftogo
But I think it's more fair to rank a document, than a person. This is something we shouldn't do at all.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Nathaniel - I might agree for spammers, but "trolls" are a difficult thing. Many game changing people were labelled troublemakers first, today we'd call them trolls...
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Hi Guys - I'm the author of the original article. One thing to keep in mind is that this system could be made topic sensitive. We'd be looking at total contribution/reputation for each person for a specific social graph relating to a specific topic. Is some ways this would be like mapping the Hilltop/HITS algorithms used in algorithmic text search to the social space. The similarity is...
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- Marshall Clark
The problem with any such measure is that some people will take it far too seriously - make it into something authoritative instead of something helpful - and some people will game it. I dont want to have to think about my "score" in any field and have to "work" in the way the score measure in order to be taken seriously
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Interesting post, I was just thinking today when reading about Listiti.com about how Twitter Lists plus this new form of "Track"/search on them can at least partially solve that problem: Just pick a reputable List, one that is large enough to create a thorough but vetted "universe of discourse" (e.g. Scoble's Tech-News-Brands with 500 entries). Then you're searching over that set, and not over the entire freaking Internet. This pretty much bypasses all of Google's PR machinations and their gaming by SEOs.
- Alex Schleber
On SocialToo we're assigning a rank to people based on various points assigned by other people they come in contact (via follow, dms, etc). It has the potential to become this.
- Jesse Stay
Yep eBay comes to mind A+++++ Quick operator will deal with again!!!!!!!!!111one
- Phill Price
from iPhone
But isnt the problem then that all you see and hear is from the "big guys" who are already established, as defined by "in" players who by nature will want to be in the "big guys" good books? We're right back in the landscape of television, where the barrier of entry for new players is high, opinion and value is centrally defined... and we get lower quality and service as none of them tries very hard...
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
An early birthday present: The Gmail Javascript compiler was just open-sourced! http://code.google.com/closure... (it compiles JS into smaller, faster JS)
Mona Nomura, Uğur Aslan, seyithanyener and 115 other people liked this
We first started work on it almost 8 years ago. It has come a long way since then :)
- Paul Buchheit
Happy Birthday Paul!
- AJ Batac
Today is actually just my internet birthday.
- Paul Buchheit
Well, thanks :) But for a verbose API I'll stick with YUI :P Have to inspect the power of templating and compiler, though.
- Claudio Cicali ♋
I wonder what happens when you apply it recursively -- can you get down to 1 byte of code that takes no time to execute? ;=)
- Brian Sullivan
Finally! This is great.
- Tudor Bosman
Happy Birthday!
- Robert Scoble
Nice!
- Micah Wittman
Unfortunately it looks like the internationalization features may be missing. I wonder why those were removed? (or if I'm just not seeing it)
- Paul Buchheit
Paul you are my best-friend :`(
- Onur Gündüz
if you were starting a new site today, would you use this over jquery (which friendfeed uses)?
- Karl Rosaen
Karl, jquery is a library, this is a compiler. I would use them both.
- Paul Buchheit
well, i mean closure library :) but yeah, they could be used together
- Karl Rosaen
ah, i see this is a link closure compiler, not the broader closure tools.
- Karl Rosaen
Refactoring, JS style.
- Gabe
Now, this is a good news
- Ozkan Altuner
@Paul the Closure project has three components: compiler, library, and template language. Looks like the Closure/library might be competing with jQuery.
- Shakeel Mahate
this is sweet!
- Jay
I think jQuery does a lot of stuff that might confuse the compiler, e.g. iterating over an array of string function names and creating new function wrappers (look at the way the parent/child/next/prev/etc functions get installed) The Closure library is also full of type annotations that help the compiler make better optimization choices, so you're likely to get a better compiled outcome using Closure than jQuery + fixes + compiler
- Ray Cromwell
@paul -- I know you've been wanting this opensourced for a long time. sorry it took such a long time. Nick Santos and the jscompiler team has finally done it! Cheers!
- Jing Lim
Happy Birthday
- ashish
Many happy returns!!
- Пьющий водки
Happy Birthday, Paul!
- Andrew Terry
Happy Birthday Paul
- Sandeep Kalidindi
Happy B'day Paul! don't be evil :)
- sirishkumar
Congratulations to the team (and @Paul & Jing) -- I know everyone's been waiting a long time for this. For anyone considering whether to use jQuery vs Closure, consider that they're meant for largely different purposes. jQuery's good for enhancing static web pages; Closure's much better at building large apps. And as Ray points out above, Closure the library is going to get much better results from Closure the compiler than an arbitrary js library would, because of all the type annotations.
- Joel Webber
Paul Buchheit has been at the top of my best of pages all month. Rock on, Paul.
- Donald C. Lindsay
Hey HAPPY BIRTHDAY PAUL !!! Cool present!! <insert CAKE> :D
- Susan Beebe
Paul, any comment on this write up? http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs...
- Sachin
That writeup is trolling for traffic IMHO. Nit picking 50 lines out of 200+ thousand (written for readability, which get compiled and optimized), providing no benchmarks for claims, and spending half the time bashing Java, it just seems to be struggling to find something wrong with Closure.
- Ray Cromwell
Sachin: he seems to be commenting on Closure the JS library, not Closure the JS compiler (that Paul's post was about). And he may be a douchebag, but I haven't seen anything I disagree with.
- Gabe
@Sachin: I hate to be too harsh, but that post is pretty much garbage. From what I can tell he's pretty much managed to enumerate some of the worst things about Javascript -- nitpicking the code for referencing "undefined" directly without declaring it as an uninitialized local? That's insane. Following this advice is mostly a recipe for an unreadable mess. Also, look in the comments for several refutations of the idea that some of these are even optimizations.
- Joel Webber
Joel, you're just not man enough to handle a language where 'top' is an implicitly reserved keyword, and 'undefined' which should be, isn't. But it could be worse, 'null' could be something you could override. :)
- Ray Cromwell
Defrag Speakers Display Skepticism Over Current State of Social Web - http://blog.louisgray.com/2009...
Pavan, Daniel J. Pritchett, Daniel Rowley and 9 other people liked this
... dose of reality and honesty is always refreshing. .imho
- .LAG liked that
Excellent.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
Kind of a testimonial for FriendFeed, at least the "link vomit" can come with more context, the poster can add the interesting quotes and context in comments, and others can build on it.
- Ed Millard
So you guys think that blog posts about conferences are useful? Because if you do, I'll keep going.
- Louis Gray
Oh, heck yeah, Louis.
- Michael R. Bernstein
Very useful to get the highlights, wouldn't actually want to sit through defrag but nice to know what is being said.
- Ed Millard
I liked the post but I was hoping for some more engagement on my comment re: Stowe. I manged to get that by floating the same idea into the 2.0 Adoption Council's Yammer group but nothing on the public web.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
This is very useful; please keep posting such info..
- Pavan
LEAKED: The Facebook Ads API - http://www.allfacebook.com/2009...
Daniel Rowley, Mona Nomura, Robert Scoble and Maxamad liked this
/blocks Jesse again
- Louis Gray
And it's all gone...I gave opportunity to find it :-)
- Jesse Stay
Doh!
- Mark Essel
from iPhone
When Tweeting Costs You Your Job (as reported by me on NBC) - http://jbruin.posterous.com/when-tw...
Ras - Dago-Baadass! of FF and Robert Scoble liked this
"nice job jenn :)"
- mike "glemak" dunn
Superfeedr : Real-time feed parsing in the cloud for web-developers - http://superfeedr.com/
Marek Blazek, hiroshimo, Tomonori Murakami and 10 other people liked this
Real-time rss client
- Aaron Crews
Let me know what you think and if I can help with Superfeedr :)
- Julien
True to form, that comment came quickly! I'm trying to sort out the best way to get real-time notifications of posts inside a firewall. Pubsubhubbub won't work because I don't want to send feed contents. I'm looking at RSScloud. That'll ping some service through the firewall, which will notify me (back inside the firewall), and then my client can retrieve the content.
- Aaron Crews
Why don't you want to send the feed contents? Are they authenticated feeds?
- Brett Slatkin
They're generated inside the firewall, so for legal reasons, etc, I want to keep the content in the enterprise.
- Aaron Crews
Another option could be hosting my own private pubsubhub since it's open-source, but I don't know of any good clients that I could use.
- Aaron Crews
PubSubHubbub (and rssCloud) are primarily for doing messaging between two separate providers. It's an integration protocol. If you're entirely behind the firewall, why not use a simple message queueing service like Starling or RabbitMQ?
- Brett Slatkin
Brett - the simple answer is because I didn't know about Starling or RabbitMQ :) Thanks for the suggestions. I'll have to look them up.
- Aaron Crews
Well, I guess you find your way;) At superfeedr, we have an XMPP API that passes through firewalls pretty easily, maybe it's worth looking into that direction as well?
- Julien
Julien - that's very interesting. XMPP would work great, too. I am interested in that option. A lot of cool stuff to look into, including the multiuser chat.
- Aaron Crews
Good! Well, you know where to find me if you have any question/problem...
- Julien
Just now getting to this - looks like I can do some fancy things with RabbitMQ, the ejabberd XMPP gateway, and rabbithub (http://github.com/tonyg...).
- Aaron Crews
Yup. Please send an email with more questions (julien@superfeedr.com), I'd be happy to answer!
- testingsupsuperfeedr
5 Reasons to Use the New Twitter List Feature - http://webstrategydigest.com/5-reaso...
Daniel Rowley, Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF) and Robert Scoble liked this
Posted via web from Web Strategy Digest
- andy brudtkuhl
from Posterous
Fwd: Looks like the connection between FriendFeed and Twitter is no longer real-time. Wonder who is to blame? (via http://friendfeed.com/carnage...)
Ken Sheppardson, Mark Trapp, Daniel Rowley and 13 other people liked this
It was previously mentioned as an issue on Twitter's side. FriendFeed is polling now.
- Louis Gray
what? It's OK now? Or is it true that "Paul Bucheit wrote that they no longer had access to Twitter's firehose, so it sounds like it may have had something to do with Facebook's acquiring them, but don't quote me on that. - Jorge Escobar"
- Steve Gillmor
I think both Louis and Jorge are saying the same thing
- Jesse Stay
Right, I'd like to hear Paul or Bret confirm that.
- Steve Gillmor
Well, on a maybe related note, the Innovation Management Group (http://friendfeed.com/innovat...) has not updated for 24 hours now. That Group includes direct Twitter accounts, Twitter searches, Delicious RSS for a specific tag and SlideShares with a specific tag. No update at all for 24+ hours. Most odd and frustrating.
- Hutch Carpenter
also not finding older posts in search that used to be there. did this change too?
- Brooks Bayne
Twitter shut off the firehose, but made available a replacement API called birddog. We're about ready to switch that on (which will restore realtime Twitter updates), but are waiting on some final approvals from legal. I'm hoping it will all be resolved this week.
- Paul Buchheit
mmm
- Johni Fisher
thx for the feedback, paul
- Steve Gillmor
customer service in realtime :)
- Michael Slattery
Posterous adds PubSubHubbub support for real-time syndication: http://blog.posterous.com/managin.... (Guess who just became my microblog of choice?)
Pavan, imabonehead, Robert Scoble and 8 other people liked this
Via Brett (http://www.google.com/reader...)
- DeWitt Clinton
Why Your YouTube Views Are Down for New Videos - http://willvideoforfood.com/2009...
Robert Scoble and Chris Loft liked this
What an SEO play.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Wow...that guy is a genius...
- Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
He really is. :-)
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
from IM
Analyzing Twitter Lists-Follower Ratio As An Indicator of Influence | Skeptic Geek - http://www.skepticgeek.com/microbl...
Kol Tregaskes, Daniel Rowley, Mike Fruchter and 7 other people liked this
So, no correlation. And I was so happy about being listed. Oh well...
- Ignacio Rodriguez de R,
As I told Mahrendra, I could make my numbers look a lot better by reducing my feed by thousands of followers, and thereby increasing my ratio.
- Louis Gray
My "respect ratio" is 29. Do I get a prize?
- Sarah's Got Talent
My Twitter List weigh-in: http://sharisax.com/2009...
- Shari Weiss
And as I replied to Louis, anyone can game Twitter, and he doesn't need to anyway. :)
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Nice post Mahrendra. I have noticed people with >50k followers on 6/8 lists and those with 500 followers on 20 lists. When I've checked them out, all those accounts with the massive follower counts were basically using Twitter as a broadcast medium. Thanks for the post.
- Jim Connolly
Thank you, Jim. The phenomenon you describe was one of the things that led me to investigate this further. :)
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Portrait of inventor who saw the big picture Kodak - The Irish Times - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspap...
Daniel Rowley, Praveen Vasudev and Robert Scoble liked this
As a young Kodak employee, Steve Sasson invented the digital camera. Kodak’s failure to commercialise it makes it a bittersweet success
- michael sean wright
from Bookmarklet
RT @davewiner: TC is a real news org, so much so that it sniffs at amateurs... They're totally in the club. http://fxshaw.wordpress.com/2009...
Robert Scoble and Atul Arora liked this
Paul Carr is going contrarian on citizen journalism's ass. Jerks with cell phones and Twitter accounts appall him http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Josette Torres, Mr. Gunn, Robert Scoble and 2 other people liked this
I thought this was a weak, weak article. He conveniently neglected to mention that people will cell phones gave us this video capturing a murder in a chicago schoolyard http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp... and this video of a BART police officer shooting a man in the back: http://www.youtube.com/watch.... Weak, weak. He then goes on...
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- j1m
I'd call it "debunker porn." And yes, I'm appalled at how weak it is.
- Jay Rosen
debunker porn, huh? :) Great coinage
- j1m
Yes, I really like that term. Contrarianism, like being "meta", is often used as a cheap way of faking depth without doing any actual work.
- Ruchira S. Datta
Gillmor Gang 11.05.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Karoli, Troy Benohanian, Mindaugas Dagys and 6 other people liked this
I am beginning to finally get it... If you post on Friendfeed you get comments... If you post on Twitter, you get followers. If you are marketing something (e.g. your blog/brand, your product/service) getting followers is much better than getting comments.
Amir Eshel, Lim, Kok Kim, Lora Lufark and 62 other people liked this
And if you are not wanting to get marketed to?
- Cristo
You need to than unfollow those users...:)) Twitter is a lot more about broadcasting and getting followers is like a drug.. the more you broadcast the more followers you get :)
- Bindu Reddy
Are you getting high right now? :)
- Cristo
Getting followers doesn't really mean anything: 390 of the 400 followers I have on Twitter never act or do anything with what I say on it. Getting them to convert is the meaningful part of the marketing proposition, and conversations, I've found, are far more effective at that.
- Mark Trapp
Mark is right.
- Robert Scoble
So, what's the FAQ for interaction on Twitter? I had a post that got 100+ comments the other day here on Friendfeed but no response on Twitter. I must be doing something wrong over there.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
twitter seems to be great for people who are lazy and not really savvy about marketing. it's sort of like shouting into the void, and you might get a few people to respond, but do you really get people to act?
- Bren, Photophobe
@Mark, I agree with you.. However to a lot of people having a follower number like 10K/20K, which seems like a relatively easily thing to do on Twitter, is not only just a high but it is also a good way to keep in touch with your audience without spending too much time... Here keeping in touch with your audience is way more time consuming
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, but keeping in touch doesn't mean anything if they're not listening. You can have a million followers, but if you're not getting any of them to act on what you're saying, it doesn't mean much. Getting conversations going with people, who may or may not be followers, which Twitter is pretty bad at, are more effective at getting people to convert. I just had a relatively popular...
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- Mark Trapp
Bindu, I'm following you (FF) and I just commented too :)
- Micah Wittman
@Mark, Curious how did you get them to go to your website?
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, if I knew that I'd have it made. Near as I can tell, people were doing Twitter and Google searches for "twitter list," and then started retweeting it and sharing it from there.
- Mark Trapp
Following is such a low-risk endeavor that people don't put thought into it: they'll follow anyone and everyone. You even have people thinking it's common decency to automatically follow people if they follow you without even thinking about if their content is interesting. Following is the 21st century equivalent of receiving a phone book or the yellow pages: you do it just in case you need to contact or get ahold of someone in the future, but nobody ever realistically does.
- Mark Trapp
Yep, it's like collecting business cards that get neatly filed into a big binder. It's about the self-satisfaction of the collection - you feel more connected / networked / important and avoid doing the hard work of cold calling or meeting with people and building something or whatever.
- Micah Wittman
I agree with following being a low-risk effort... However I have also heard of ppl gaining value from Twitter without much effort. Take for example this coffeshop I am a big fan of - sightglass coffee. They get a lot of customers from Twitter. It takes them relatively little time to tweet and they get customers. It would be very hard to achieve the same on FF.
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, I get lots of conversation on Twitter, too. One of the reasons I am there more than here is because people with common interest in my political obsessions are there, but not here.
- Karoli
Karoli - Yes, the Twitterverse is way more diverse than the FFverse. Curious do you get more comments/conversations per post on Twitter as compared to FF or is it that you you post more stuff because time spent per post is lower on Twitter
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu, I get very little response to political conversations/comments on FF - a couple of folks follow here but a very small percentage compared to twitter. I tried to pull people over here, but they didn't understand why they should leave tweetdeck and their twitter setup for new territory.
- Karoli
Geeks (+ early adopters, influential folks, the elite ...) are on FriendFeed and the proletariat on Twitter? Long live the dictatorship of the proletariat? Calls for action work best when the audience actually cares, so prolly that's all about choosing the right medium for the targeted punters?
- Sebastian
Sebastian... yes agree the geeks and tech bloggers are on FF... However if you are marketing say a fashion or beauty blog. You won't get much interest here. twitter is the place for you :)
- Bindu Reddy
I disagree with that statement, Bindu. There's a LOT of non-tech getting traction on FriendFeed. So much so that it's the number one reason Scoble no longer enjoys being here: he says he doesn't see enough tech for his liking.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Just butting in here to mention that there are tons of uses for both twitter and friendfeed that have nothing whatsoever to do with marketing. In fact, once could make the argument that social networks such as these were designed to get away from marketing. Unlike radio, TV, or even a web search, you choose who you'll be receiving information from. If you're looking to exchange...
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- Mr. Gunn
Marketing, schmarketing.
- Christopher A Carr
Bindu, what I'm sick of is marketers broadcasting their sales pitches to all social media outlets out there, regardless whether the audience might fit or not. Anyways, i'ts possible to attract a few somewhat intelligent responses to geeky topics at Twitter, at least when xmas and independence day share the same date. Most probably I wouldn't try to sell wonder bras at FF, though.
- Sebastian
@Tina ... umm I have not been an avid user of FF lately so maybe it has become pretty diverse. Are you saying there are a lot of people on here with specific interests such as politics, beauty etc?
- Bindu Reddy
Sebastian - LOL.. agree :)
- Bindu Reddy
Bindu: Ning is a better place to go if you have very specific topics you want to talk about. They are growing a FriendFeed every 12 days (they are getting a million new users that often and have just passed 38 million registered). FriendFeed is fun if you aren't sure what you want to chat about and you're cool with seeing lots of family pictures and goofy stuff. Tina is right that the hard-core geeks are mostly on Twitter or Facebook now, I keep watching here, though.
- Robert Scoble
Karoli I get all kinds of action here on political topics. I have more followers on Twitter but rarely get a response there. Here I got 80+ comments yesterday.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
from iPod
MVB, Karoli is a prolific voice on twitter. Twitter seems quite effective for political advocacy/activism even though longer form convos have to break out somewhere else. Also, just like friendfeed, volume / steady presence can make all the difference. Your tweet count is ~2K; Karoli's over 63K.
- Micah Wittman
My presence here is similar to Kaoli's on Twitter, then. So, presence is a mitigating factor. But, Micah, as you so deftly point out, for a long conversation there needs to be a move to another venue. That's where here works better, since it can stay right here.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
from iPod
We agree, and can agreed at length right here, folks :)
- Micah Wittman
So link your twitter to your friendfeed. Get followers and comments. The best of both worlds.
- Hareesh Nagarajan
Does it make any difference here whether the original post was to Twitter and reposted here automatically or the original post was directly here? In other words, does the FF community prefer to comment on direct posts rather than Twitter reposts?
- Jimmy Walker
Jimmy: it honestly depends on who you interact with on FriendFeed. There are people who get irate about people only posting to Twitter and openly advocate using FriendFeed directly, and yet, there are interesting people who always get a conversation going around their tweets. One thing that sometimes helps is coming back to FriendFeed and elaborating on your tweet, or to do more than...
more...
- Mark Trapp
Mark, that sounds like good advice. Thanks.
- Jimmy Walker
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...?
scott anderson, Rocky Barbanica, Nir Ben Yona and 4 other people liked this
Should be a good show. Craig Burton always has something interesting to say.
- Cliff Gerrish
Waiting for call.
- Robert Scoble
Looking forward to the show.
- Matt Mastracci
A fellow Utahn - I will be watching :-)
- Jesse Stay
hmmm. silverlight plugin just went kerfluey on me...let's see if it works now.
- Karoli
Still waiting for skype call...
- Robert Scoble
Looks like we're very close to start.
- Robert Scoble
ah..working now.
- Karoli
Chris Messina is on too.
- Robert Scoble
Yay Phil and Craig! Two of my favorite Utahns
- Jesse Stay
Robert's pretty close to having a "lair" there...
- Ken Sheppardson
LIve from @ribbit http://bit.ly/Spawn on Gillmor Gang
- Kevin Marks
robert, i can't imagine going from that to an iphone. your head must explode daily.
- Karoli
Twitter.com FTW!
- Jesse Stay
Actually, I use e-mail for most of my Twitter activity
- Jesse Stay
Robert's head exploding is all part of the show.
- Cliff Gerrish
You guys should be sure to talk about the new Paypal identity proposals
- Jesse Stay
Karoli: info density is pretty crazy! Jesse: I got some good interviews on that yesterday. Should be up on Building43 next week.
- Robert Scoble
where are they again?
- Christopher Harris
Phil and Chris are at http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com
- Ken Sheppardson
thx
- Christopher Harris
I love how all the Identity pieces are fitting together now with OpenID+OAuth Hybrid, WebFinger and XRD and Activity Streams and PoCo at #iiw this week
- Kevin Marks
IIW was great this year.
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert, I'm getting more info on it as well - they want to be much more open than it appeared in the keynote
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: I will try to introduce PayPal's identity moves into this conversation. Also, what @marcglasberg http://icents.net is doing to turn Twitter into a micropayments system for content.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, missed what @marcglasberg is doing - can't wait to hear more
- Jesse Stay
Someone tell Craig to turn the sounds off on his TweetDeck ;-)
- Jesse Stay
and tell them I said hi from the chat (I don't think they're watching this)
- Jesse Stay
"Open ID threat level Orange?"
- Rob La Gesse
OpenID is just putting on long pants, a shirt and a tie.
- Cliff Gerrish
says @chrismessina the Govt is encouraging people to use OpenID as most people have them already.
- Kevin Marks
Badfinger or Webfinger?
- Cliff Gerrish
Email seems like a bad identifier.
- Cliff Gerrish
http://webfinger.org - it is a protocol to map an emial address into an OpenID endpoint - works with gmail and yahoo already
- Kevin Marks
Just ran into this on stackoverflow.com... they have logos for 10 different OpenID providers or your own URL and I think I have IDs on 8 of them... and I have no idea which one I used to create my account.
- Ken Sheppardson
The right number of id providers is 1. Selectors can solve this problem.
- Cliff Gerrish
We should be able to "transform" emails to OpenID, as described here: http://chrissaad.wordpress.com/2008... (see comments)
- Panayotis Vryonis
Hey Kevin how do I get involved in what you guys are doing with OpenID?
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, come to the next IIW.
- Cliff Gerrish
It would be great if Twitter supported OpenID as well as OAuth #iiw
- Kevin Marks
Watching the show but the FF stream is "frozen" from last week?just me?
- Paul Sherer
from iPhone
Twitter as an OpenID provider?
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff, I wasn't aware of it - that would have been interesting. I was just out there the last 3 days at the Paypal conference.
- Jesse Stay
Paul, refresh. The thread has been updated inside NewsGang.
- Cliff Gerrish
Wow - I didn't realize Paypal was part of the OpenID foundation
- Jesse Stay
@Paul - working fine here. Are you at http://www.building43.com/realtim... ?
- Rob La Gesse
I don't quite understand why we need Salmon independent of Activitystrea.ms. Seems like a "feature" of activitystreams.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'll head over to building34, thanks.
- Paul Sherer
Monica's Activity Streams prezi: http://prezi.com/yxvtypx-aani/ maps out the ideas behind it too
- Kevin Marks
Calling out "comment streams" as some special case of activities seems like a dead end.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, Salmon is just the part that shows how to send the comments upstream, it fits in with Activity Streams fine.
- Kevin Marks
Of course in FF the comment thread can appear in multiple places simultaneously via iframe.
- Cliff Gerrish
So, Kevin, can Salmon support any Activitystreams objects? ... Got it.
- Ken Sheppardson
Salmon I'm Atom... I'm getting lost here
- Frank Paynter
Cool, I'm totally going to rip off the salmon idea and make my own proprietary protocol.
- Vezquex: God of FF
do you need an iFrog to use ribbit?
- Frank Paynter
Okay - I missed the last 15 mins. Did I miss anything?
- Jesse Stay
If Gillmor Gang watchers want Ribbit Mobile, got to http://ribbit.com/reserve.php and use the invite code 'gang09'
- Kevin Marks
Is Messina on the Space Station?
- Jesse Newhart
I wish somebody would put together some sort of over-arching reference document that explains how you build something that uses PSHB, OpenID, OAuth, Salmon, Activitystreams, etc in the "correct" way in an integrated system.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, check out the identity commons.
- Cliff Gerrish
I really wish Phil and Craig were in here. I need to get those guys together for lunch some time. That would be a fun meeting.
- Jesse Stay
I think you can catch both Phil and Craig at the Kynetx conference. It's coming right up.
- Cliff Gerrish
Conference de jour, literally ;-) Can't we all just agree to get together once a year or so in one place and deal with everything at once? :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
how about adding lists to lists? when's that coming?
- Frank Paynter
Ken, that's what the weekly Gillmor Gang is for. Everyone in one place in real time.
- Cliff Gerrish
I love how Atom is so flexible that we can add all these extra layers on top of it. ActivityStreams, Salmon, PSHB, etc
- Matt Mastracci
YES. filters to something manageable.
- Karoli
frank, isn't that what listorious is for? :)
- Karoli
Cliff: It's just that all these conference give me the apparently mistaken impression that there are more than 10 or so folks who I really have to follow ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Karoli... mebbe, but I'm a fan of bundling functionality within the native platform
- Frank Paynter
Seems like building a bunch of translators is the best way to get adoption.
- Cliff Gerrish
Isn't that what Gnip's supposed to be doing?
- Ken Sheppardson
Facebook just needs to remove the 24 hour storage limit and it will be free
- Jesse Stay
@cgerrish yes, translators into Activity Streams rather than n by n translators is an important saving
- Kevin Marks
Cliff, yeah - I'll be at the Kynetx conference
- Jesse Stay
I see Phil all the time - haven't met Craig yet (except online)
- Jesse Stay
Amen Mark - more clients need to support activitystrea.ms
- Jesse Stay
Myspace is still very much in the game
- Jesse Stay
Wait and see - there are some huge things coming to Myspace
- Jesse Stay
So we're all going to speak activitystreams on the global back-end bus and all these sites just become "clients"? Cool. I'm down with that.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, all but Twitter, at least the way they're going
- Jesse Stay
MySpace need a major shift to survive
- Rocky Barbanica
Rocky, keep watching.
- Jesse Stay
But if *everything* else is connected, we can all just pool our API call limits to pull the full feed out of Twitter and translate it to AS
- Ken Sheppardson
Go tell @loic to support Activity Streams from MySpace and Netflix, @scobleizer
- Kevin Marks
That's the theory, Ken. At least until the next time something closed and exciting comes along, ;)
- Matt Mastracci
It will be everyone supports open standards, then you'll also have to support Twitter's own standard - at least if you ask John at Twitter
- Jesse Stay
JK's sane, Jesse... if this all got widespread adoption I think you'd see a different bottom-up attitude from Twitter...
- Ken Sheppardson
The custom adapters actually creates a value proposition.
- Cliff Gerrish
http://cliqset.com is an Activity Streams supporting aggregator, as is MS Live
- Kevin Marks
Facebook needs public indexing to get legit... they can't because of privacy aspect of their service... FriendFeed can provide the opening to public indexing of Facebook users' wall content...
- Frank Paynter
Ken, yeah - I just don't like his attitude around it
- Jesse Stay
anything but FB, please.
- Karoli
Frank, you can use FQL to search Facebook pretty much site-wide (at least as privacy allows)
- Jesse Stay
I can sorta see Twitter's point... I mean Evan came to them a year ago and said "Hey, you should support OMB" and their natural response as "Uh... no.... why? Nobody's using it..."
- Ken Sheppardson
I should note Twitter doesn't allow specific queries like FQL btw
- Jesse Stay
I'd just as soon not search Facebook. or even use it.
- Karoli
Jesse...yahbut, you can't find Facebook content on google
- Frank Paynter
@Frank - yet!
- Rob La Gesse
Frank, yes you can
- Jesse Stay
There's a strong current of relevant discussion on Facebook that is hard for me to ignore
- Frank Paynter
If Activitystreams was implemented widely, I suspect the engineers at Twitter would warm up to it. That might not be a sufficient condition, but it's certainly necessary.
- Ken Sheppardson
sad that no-one from @twitterapi came to IIW this year; @blaine came + helped invent OAuth when they were 1/10th the size
- Kevin Marks
Facebook encourages self-censorship, or disownership, depending. (Basically I don't really want my Republican spouse reading my liberal rants)
- Karoli
@Kevin - they are busy building lists.
- Rob La Gesse
Kevin, yeah - that's been my perception - they're taking no part in any of the open efforts, which concerns me
- Jesse Stay
I think we all scared them off at BearHugCamp last fall ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Kevin, is Facebook there at all? I imagine Recordon's probably there?
- Jesse Stay
That's consistent with what Bret said last week, RE Facebook
- Ken Sheppardson
hubs will be distributed. facebook will lose their advantage.
- scott anderson
scott, i think so too. Google federating wave is one step closer to that...
- Karoli
perfect question
- Rocky Barbanica
Where's Microsoft in all this, btw?
- Ken Sheppardson
MSFT had a big presence at IIW - Information cards (selectors) started with them.
- Cliff Gerrish
Here's another good Google search on Facebook: site:www.facebook.com lists - status updates will very soon also be part of that
- Jesse Stay
What did Scoble just call his wife?
- Cliff Gerrish
As soon as grandmas start using a service, Robert bails... so... y'know... ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Scott, Facebook is becoming distributed
- Jesse Stay
Jesse... thanks for the "site: facebook" clue, but it's weak... I've just been testing it and nothing relevant emerged in response to specific search requests
- Frank Paynter
Ken - MS is busy building layoff packages and not serious software.
- Rob La Gesse
MSFT had a lot of good people at #iiw, and they are really contributing to the Activity Streams and OWF efforts
- Kevin Marks
@KevinMarks. Thanks for the mention. Yes, we (Cliqset) currently normalize activity from 70+ services into activity streams compliant atom feeds. We also share them in real-time through our APIs.
- Darren
Frank, a lot of cool articles about Twitter lists - I thought it was interesting "site:facebook.com lists"
- Jesse Stay
Save the demo for a building43 video :)
- Rob La Gesse
Frank, status updates are also very soon going to be included in that as well. Very soon you'll see those come up in search results.
- Jesse Stay
We will, Rob
- Rocky Barbanica
Seeing individual engineers and marketing folks from MSFT at different events reminds me alot of my old NASA days, when you'd always find some sort of "rogue" engineer off working on pretty much any project you can imagine. Every once in a while all the "rogue" engineers from the different centers who were working on similar projects would get together... but they were rarely funded and projects never went anywhere. But on the flip side... I'm glad they're involved :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Scoble is such a non-programmer. Everything he says that's hard sounds easy. "How do I bundle 3 tweets?" Just use take their URIs or copy the text.
- Vezquex: God of FF
Interesting show.
- Rob La Gesse
Thanks for the info Jesse
- Frank Paynter
Oh man...
- Rocky Barbanica
thanks, steve
- Karoli
Vezquex: sorry, that just does NOT do it for me.
- Robert Scoble
what more do you need?
- Vezquex: God of FF
Vezquex: I want to put them on a page and have them look like Tweets, mixed with YouTUbe videos, mixed with photos. Make it freaking easy. Copy and pasting and doing screen captures is NOT easy for most people.
- Robert Scoble
Did they mention the Paypal identification proposal at all? I think I missed it.
- Jesse Stay
Just in passing, Jesse
- Ken Sheppardson
We never got to it Jesse
- Craig Burton
Ken, I'm very fascinated by that, because it's true identity. If they can make that open along with the existing open standards around identity they're going to do some great things. I'm supposed to get a briefing by them soon (I hope).
- Jesse Stay
Vezquex: look at the Tweets I put into Wordpress: http://scobleizer.com/2009... that took a LOT of work. Way too much for normal people and WAY too much for real-time work. Did you watch the World Series last night? MSNBC had a Tweet out AS THE BALL HIT THE GLOVE TO END THE GAME!
- Robert Scoble
Craig, great seeing you, btw! I don't think we've ever met in person.
- Jesse Stay
This is a real time world and copying and pasting URLs is too freaking hard.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks Jesse, we need to make that happen.
- Craig Burton
Plus, I do everything on my iPhone now. Did you remember how we broke the news of Facebook buying FriendFeed? That entire thing was done from an iPhone, including an audio interview.
- Robert Scoble
Craig, just sent you and Phil an e-mail. Let's definitely make it happen.
- Jesse Stay
Paypal is still very weak. They are not quite clued in to the selector imperative.
- Craig Burton
Jesse: applications running on the open web will always be able to innovate and provide more functionality than apps running on top of Facebook. With activity streams, hubs, openid, etc. the reduced friction advantage that Facebook has is diminished.
- scott anderson
Craig, that's my worry
- Jesse Stay
Scott, Facebook is joining the open web
- Jesse Stay
it's all talk until it happens
- scott anderson
they also said Beacon was going to be revolutionary
- scott anderson
Facebook is an activitystrea.ms provider right now: http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.... They are also currently an openid provider.
- Jesse Stay
Facebook has openID?
- Matt Mastracci
I think you see it now with the work Recordon and the ex-FriendFeeders are doing... but the IP limits, 24hr cache limits, and EULA mythology seems to cast a shadow over everything
- Ken Sheppardson
openid support is defensive move
- scott anderson
BTW, most this stuff was around even before Recordon came on board
- Jesse Stay
Yeah, I realized that after I wrote that, Jesse... he's just sorta the flag bearer these days
- Ken Sheppardson
Scott, they've had that support for at least 6 months now
- Jesse Stay
Facebook led much of the activitystrea.ms standard - it is not a defensive move. They were part of the organization, and are also members of the openid foundation. They're leaders in this, not followers.
- Jesse Stay
openid support is a defensive move because they don't want google to dominate the openid space. if activity stream content expires after some period of time when it leaves Facebook, then that is another defensive move and one that is not truly open.
- scott anderson
Scott, I'm not sure they've said much about that content expiring. As long as you're a user I'm pretty sure you're able to get your content out, no exceptions. Developers have a few more strict rules, but nothing's stopping a client from enabling that for users themselves. The RSS News Feed app on Facebook's still around, so I think they're opening up to enabling that: http://www.facebook.com/apps...
- Jesse Stay
Also, see Facebook's latest news - their entire JS client library is now open source on GitHub: http://bit.ly/48FO1s
- Jesse Stay
Messina additional on IIW http://www.thesocialweb.tv/blog...
- Steve Gillmor
Super cute. I cried: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Vipul Rawat, Pavan, Robert Scoble and Jesse Stay liked this
Dang it - me too! :-(
- Jesse Stay
It's even worse if you have a daughter about that age
- Jesse Stay
wow, fantastic reaction and joy. Do yourself a favour and don't watch on youtube, spare yourself the turdity that is youtube comments. Watch it on friendfeed embedded.
- David Pascoe
You gotta love raw unscripted emotion.. but I hate crying over You Tube!!
- Chris Myles
We're developing the next version of the Facebook Connect JavaScript client library on GitHub as open source. http://developers.facebook.com/news...
Daniel Rowley, Robert Scoble, imabonehead and 4 other people liked this
David you guys rule! That's awesome news.
- Jesse Stay
Thanks, though the Connect team really deserves the credit here!
- David Recordon
In that case thanks to the other David! :-) (Morin)
- Jesse Stay
I'm enjoying playing with Google's music onebox: http://www.google.com/search... Does it work for the bands/artists you like?
imabonehead, Robert Scoble, Daniel Rowley and 4 other people liked this
Does not work that well for singers/artists from Bollywood movies. Tried A R Rahman and no Jai Ho :( Same for some of the other artists I tried.
- Atul Arora
I still miss the old music search that showed a list of albums and tracks.
- Scott Cederberg
I don't see the music onebox, unless I force it on by searching here: http://www.google.com/landing...
- Otto
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