Scot Mcphee - Likes - FriendFeed

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Please stop using ISP email (Gmail is free!). I just discovered that one relatively common ISP seems to be blocking some of our emails because they include the url http://groups.google.com/group... (with that removed, the message gets delivered).

January 14, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

John Mueller, Sean Kelly, ЕП and 40 other people liked this

Spam filtering is too complex to be left up to random perl scripts or whatever these people use. Several months back, a different ISP was blocking our email because the from address included the word "friend" (as in "friendfeed.com"). - Paul Buchheit

28 more comments

i've noted a similar trend as well. most people on isp email (ahem, comcast & earthlink) have a setting that kickbacks anything that isn't coming from an approved list...and the default msg manages to come off as both retarded and pretentious in a "i need to stock shelves of canned food in preparation for y2k" kind of way. i think earthlink's notice even suggests you to CALL the person you're trying to contact so they can add you to their approved list. very annoying. - James Miao

Sadly, for most people, using email that isn't provided by their ISP is like using a phone that wasn't provided by the phone company before Carterphone. You're playing with dangerous wiring, and 'who do you call if the bell doesn't ring?'. - Robin Barooah

Big deal, Gmail is currently blocking yahoo-inc.com addresses. It is a hard problem and no one does it perfectly. - Sam Pullara

Sam, it's very unlikely that they are blocking all of yahoo-inc.com. Perhaps you did a "Report Spam" on that address previously? (which could cause blocking for your account) Regardless, the fact that nobody is perfect does not excuse those that are awful. - Paul Buchheit

Maybe it wasn't obvious, but just because an ISP is blocking some email messages with that URL in them it doesn't imply that the spam filter that it has is awful. It probably has just gotten a lot of spam with google groups urls in them. - Sam Pullara

it is interesting how many people stick with their ISP email service. I guess it is hard to change your email identity especially if you have used the one you already have for long. - Davide D'Incau

I was just going to post a question about best practices re: startups sending email. I am sending email directly from a server with SPF, domainkeys and DKIM all setup correctly. Yahoo still seems to want to put our emails into spam folders for some users. Any pointers on what to avoid (the emails I am sending are very short and contain only some text, a link and a unsubscribe link)/how to debug? - Arvind Sundararajan

As far as I can tell, there aren't any great options. Some startups that don't have to send much mail just route it through Google. I think there are also some equivalent paid services, but I don't know how good any of them are. As you recall, even Gmail had trouble getting past broken spam filters sometimes. - Paul Buchheit

I haven't used ISP mail for the best part of ten years. I've changed ISP three times in that time, so it would have been a pain in the ass and expense to keep telling everyone and reprinting cards etc. It's worth paying for a domain for that reason alone, or, nowadays using reliable spam-free email like Gmail. (I gave up on Hotmail and Yahoo way back). - Ian May

gmail works great for me. I do not see any spam on it. Only stuff I am expecting to find there. - Davide D'Incau

For our 20-person company, we've been using Google Apps + IMAP very happily for over a year. - Jeremy Dunck

Even people in my own relatively tech-savvy family still use @aol and @earthlink addresses. It's not that they don't want to use Gmail or similar upgrade, its that they don't want to give up an address that they've had for 10, 15, 20 years. Weird when compared to a few generations later (kids today), when email addresses are treated as disposable identities. However, comcast and earthlink should just outsource email to someone more ... modern. - DeWitt Clinton

I find it strange that people use ISP e-mail because they want to keep their e-mail address. My parents have changed their e-mail address at least once when they changed providers. Also, their ISP only offers POP3 access. No IMAP. Of course, of the free e-mail out there, only gmail offers IMAP (that I know of). - Robert Felty

The only reason I haven't completely chucked my AOL mail is because I want to keep those screen names for IMing since I've had them for forever and a day. Unfortunately some family members only know me by those e-mail addys, so it's been a slow uphill battle to get them to start switching to either my hotmail or gmail accounts. I'll win one of these days... - Hookuh Tinypants

Amanda: you can login as your AOL screen name in Gmail and chat there http://mail.google.com/support... - Benjamin Golub

Oh I don't use the AOL app for anything anymore. I'm all web-based anyway, and I use Digsby for chat. But the problem is that if I cancel my AOL account, they will cancel my screen names. Which means I will have to get all new screen names because they don't release canceled names back into the wild for like six months. - Hookuh Tinypants

Not sure what you are saying -- that everybody should only use Gmail? There is a whole range of email providers out there -- free, not free, self managed, outsourced with varying degrees of spam management. Gmail is better than most, but still screws up. - Brian Sullivan

Back when we got our service from Verizon, they not only included a Verizon email address, but also bundled in MSN, including an msn.com (hotmail) account. I haven't checked the former address in years, but use the latter for my IRL personal communications. - Ontario Emperor

I son't see any problem with a FFer promoting a given web service in their posts. Happens all the time in fact. Gmail is free and ISP email usually sucks. If you don't like gmail there are other options and you're free to post about them. And if Paul's talking about the same ISP that I have, they pull this kind of crap all the time. - Jim #TeamMonique

Point taken, but the tangential question is why do you use a google group as your main vehicle for user support? - Laura Norvig

Laura, I actually just replaced the groups link with a link to the friendfeed-feedback room. My point however is that I should not have to worry about a groups.google.com url or some other random detail causing email to get blocked by some dumb filter. I noticed another ISP that blocks our daily-summary emails whenever they include amazon.com links (from someone's wishlist). FriendFeed is full of links, so these naive filters will always cause problems for our users. - Paul Buchheit

As an aside, I'm not quite sure that FF is yet profiting from our data. Google certainly is because of the ads, but FF isn't quite there yet... - FFing Enigma

V, I would bet that Gmail protects your privacy better than your ISP does. That said, I agree that there should be multiple competent email providers. I wish that Gmail would open up their sender reputation data, since that's the most powerful and reliable bit in the spam filtering equation. However, even if they do that, most ISPs will still suck because they don't know better, don't care, and their customers don't realize what's going on. - Paul Buchheit

Are there really ISPs who don't give end users control over whether to use the ISPs spam filters or not? I have ATT, which uses Yahoo Mail, and I can choose whether to use Yahoo filters or get the raw feed (and I do both, on different accounts). I do wish Gmail would let me POP/IMAP my spam folder, if I so chose, some of my Gmail accounts are obscure enough to never get spam and I don't want to miss anything. - Tinfoil 2.0

"I would bet that Gmail protects your privacy better than your ISP does". Having worked at an ISP all I have to say is "here here!". People think Gmail is evil because they "read" your email to put some ads on it but don't care if your ISP sends your email through something like an IronPort to detect spam. - Benjamin Golub

The irony is that those same heavyhanded span filters can't be particularly effective otherwise span would have been rendered cost ineffective by now. - Robin Barooah

I said the same to mum in email tonight... she uses aol she sent pictures of her and dad on holinday in texas...they never showed..crap... i set up a gmail account for her..hopefully she will use it. :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

Every time Verizon/Yahoo gets a twich, my Mozilla Thunderbird goes down and cannot access the servers. But my Gmail still works. So I would like to go with GMail, completely, but, would I still be using the Verizon/Yahoo servers? Is GMail available through its own servers? Not completely savvy about this. Chris - Chris Conner

Well, in defense of that ISP... Even Google doesn't use Google Groups, for some of its products because of the spam presumably. - Space Cowboy

Paul Buchheit

Obviously I can't provide a lot of detailed plans and guarantees, but I can tell you that I'll do my personal best to ensure that the FriendFeed users and community are treated right. I love this product too, and don't want to see it disappear.

August 10, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

c.a.j., حُسین آفلاین, pastas9 and 439 other people liked this

Thank you, Paul. - joey

99 more comments

:) - iTad

I hope so. - Mathew™ aka Youngblood

Thank you, Paul. Hearing something is always better than hearing nothing =) - FFing Enigma

I think this was a smart move fore FF and FB - Joe Hall

What about the service? - Amit Morson

Thanks Paul. - sean percival

Thanks Paul - Mike Doeff

We don't want it to go either. - Yolanda

I would not expect any less from such a cool guy like you, thanks! :) - Susan Beebe from iPhone

Please keep it going for as long as you can or until you can make Facebook actually work. - AJ Kohn

That's heartening, Paul. Thanks. - Anika

We love you guys and FriendFeed.. we are just a little hurt and worried.. just please give us details as soon as possible. - Tim Hoeck

FriendFeed lets me use people as filters to turn data into information. Facebook doesn't. Until it does, please, Please, PLEASE keep FriendFeed as a destination alive. - AJ Kohn

congrats guys! facebook needs what you got! - Lorna Herf

I'm sorry that I haven't said more about this. As you can imagine, it has been an extraordinarily busy day (and I've barely slept in the past week). - Paul Buchheit

I'll add my plea to the chorus: Please don't take FriendFeed away from us. And don't make us go to Facebook (because we won't). FriendFeed means a lot to a lot of people and the thought that it will dry up and blow away shortly is very disturbing. - Lindsay

It's still great to hear from you Paul. Congrats on that new swimming pool full of cash. :D - iTad

Simply glad you're here now. You've always been a very responsive and transparent team. As much as I cringe at the thought of FF going away, I *am* happy for you and the team. - AJ Kohn

Thanks Paul. - John (bird whisperer)

Thank you kind sir. - Andrew Smith

I request you make it to the next scheduled FFundercats podcast to talk to the community. This announcement deserves a live appearance to the community. - Eric - seven eleven

Have been dealing unsucessfully with Twitter for two days, trying to get logged in...Their password reset page says"Snap we can't find you." I keep writing to Tech Support at Twitter and get their helpful auto-generated Twitter Trouble shooting email. My problem is not there. =( Hope FriendFeed does not get that blaise about helping users. @EV - SashaKane

If FB can't keep the service running, would you consider open-sourcing the thing, so we can? - Christopher Galtenberg from iPhone

Hi Paul, thanks for the assurances. In the future, I would highly suggest that you make this sort of statement shortly after the initial merger release. Thanks again. - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Thanks for keeping the passion! - Shane

Nice to hear Paul. Thanks. - Mark Krynsky

I would like to give you a hug right now Paul. However, that would be awkward and April might beat me up so I will just say thank you and press the like button. - EricaJoy

Best news I have heard today. - Angus Burton

Thank you for affirming that. Much appreciated. - Karoli

A few more points that would be nice to have addressed soon. Ability to export data, tool to import friends to Facebook, and will ff.im urls continue to function? - Mark Krynsky

Amelioration?? - heretic_twit

Those that like friendfeed as is should be most pleased with this statement, as it probably means maintenance to keep the current system as is, without as much attention to new features. It's also good news for all those who like both friendfeed and facebook, as facebook will likely adopt the better features from friendfeed - Ivan Kirigin

That means an awful lot to me. - Absentee

This has been quite a day! Can't wait to hear what is next! - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Thank you, Paul. Thank you for coming out from behind the curtain and finally giving us some communication, some semblance of hope. - Akiva

So we can expect a Facebook adaption of this? I like this technology over everyone else! - Shaggy Jenkins

Eric, my schedule is still a little uncertain at the moment, but I'd be glad to appear on a future FFundercats. - Paul Buchheit

That would be a good thing Paul. Thanks. - Eric - seven eleven

Cool :) - Susan Beebe from iPhone

I like this. - Ashish from iPhone

Thanks for making FriendFeed what it is, and lets hope it stays that way, though there's slim chance of that - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Now that I think about it: are you kidding me? They've already stated that FriendFeed's going to be absorbed into Facebook. What kind of sleight-of-hand are you trying to pull now, Paul? - Akiva

@EricaJoy: I have nothing against hugs. :) - April Buchheit

Thanks! - Vincenzo Piromalli

Thanks, Paul. I've been getting more and more depressed thinking about the bad ways this could go. The reassurances help a bit, at least. In fact, just hearing you speak on the point is encouraging - the open lines of communication between the FriendFeed team and its users has always been one of the great things about FriendFeed that I'm afraid will be lost with the Facebook buyout. And yes, a FFundercats appearance would be a great idea. - Jandy

I don't want to read too much into this reassurance but the "personal best" remark made me think like there is not a united FF anymore and that it's up to your personal efforts to prevent it from being eaten by FB :) - Turker Keskinpala

you can sell the tech but the community can not be bought sold transferred or merged - Robert Higgins from m.ctor.org

Turker, I do believe that this deal was the right decision -- I'll write a bit more about that when I get a chance. I say that I'll do my "personal best" because I will -- it would be misleading to make promises on other's behalf :) - Paul Buchheit

Hoping so... practicing patience - Majento

Paul: I'm hopeful that this will be the best for both Facebook and Friendfeed. What you and the staff at FF have done is amazing, with only 12 people! I love the service here. I also enjoy Facebook (one I ignore all quizzes and stupid apps), but in a different way. Hoping some coolness can be brought to both. Good luck to you and your team! - Travis B. Hartwell

this echoes star wars galaxies, incredible unique community. but they upgraded it to be like world of warcraft. this is a replay of the devs soothing messages. the forums were livid the community evaporated. - Robert Higgins from m.ctor.org

When socialmedian was acquired by Xing they left it alone. I hope the same happens here. I'm sure you will do your best though! - Michael Fidler

http://friendfeed.com/akiva... - Akiva

On behalf of the Dutch citizens our Queen wants to let you know: Thx Paul. - Ton Zijp

Don't know what to say, so lets start with big congrats! from one hand, as an early member of Friendfeed I think we've created here a very cool, collaborative and tech-savvy/passionate community of great people that all probably wish to stick around as much as possible. From the other hand, I know how corporates work and it takes one small decision of share holders to close Friendfeed... more... - Nir Ben Yona

My first reaction is disappointment. I don't believe big corporations do better than small ones. Facebook is inferior to FriendFeed, although it's user base is much larger. Clearly FriendFeed won't survive in the long term, unless it is open sourced. Why not open up and embrace the wonders of the GPL instead of joining forces with the Walled Garden no #1? Facebook don't even operate with permalinks,. - Morten Blaabjerg

Thanks for the explanation Paul. Of course, I congratulate you guys. I think anyone would do the same thing if they were in your shoes :) - Turker Keskinpala

A big congrats for you guys.. However, I feel kind of sorrow :) - Özkan Altuner

good to hear - Dobromir Hadzhiev

Thank you - but I would very much like our content to stay intact. :) - Mona Nomura

Ryo: if you delete your account everything goes away. I totally disagree with you about Facebook, but that's OK. - Robert Scoble

Good to hear. Unfortunately I think Facebook are going to download the brains of all FriendFeed staff then kill FF. - Michael McGimpsey

but Paul it is going to disappear - Facebook bought FF not for the site but for you guys. So obviously once its integrated into Facebook, development on FF will stop - Anthony Feint

If FriendFeed and all of it's functionality get integrated into Facebook I'm all for it. - Hugh Isaacs II

Thank you Paul! Congrats on the deal! - Garin Kilpatrick

Paul - that's great news. It surely can't cost a lot to keep this place running and it's a good place to try out ideas before they move to FB. - Martin Bryant

what about improving the product and making sure it gets more users, not only supports those who stay? - Ihar Mahaniok

Ihar - unlikely. Facebook bought FF for the developer talent, not for FriendFeed itself. - Martin Bryant from iPhone

Martin - I also think so, and it is most likely. But I could still have a hope - Ihar Mahaniok

Paul, please - underpromise & overdeliver...they say it works. - A. T.

FriendFeed is Dead! Long Live FriendFeed! (nice name for Facebook skunkworks) I'm sure everyone would love to see FriendFeed itself stay around, even if the innovations that happen are geared towards implementation at Facebook. Thanks for this note Paul! :) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

There are a few promises and guarantees that you SHOULD be able to provide. Like, that our network of friends will remain intact and that the features that make this site great will remain. If you can't make those promises, then you shouldn't have done the deal. I sure do hope that the real-time search engine wasn't the centerpiece of this deal (it probably was), because that certainly... more... - Brad Williamson

Paul you did such a nice job with friendfeed, and I so want to believe you, but I'm not sure I can. Not because of you, but because of your new employer. Because your new employer is no longer you, and while I have kind of come to trust you, I do not trust your new boss. Not at all. Please prove me wrong, if they'll let you. - Jim #TeamMonique

Paul - thanks for that reassurance. PLEASE stick to that! I was in the middle of reading and participating in a lengthy discussion off of a Robert Scoble post yesterday ... then I came up for air and saw your news. Congratulations - I have no idea what that feels like or how pumped you must be. There are so many things FF does that I LOVE...I know you know that. Please Please PLease dont' go away! Thanks! - Tobin Truog

Thanks for the personal note Paul. - Mike Reynolds

Phewww..relief ;-) - Ritu

First zombie/mafia request and we're all outta here.... - Fossil Huntress

+1 Fossil Huntress The partitioning of the networks between friendfeed and facebook was a major feature that many people made use of, lacking appropriate controls for who sees what. Merging the two groups of friends isn't going to work, at all. - Mr. Gunn

It doesn't sound like you understand what has people worried. I wrote this to help: http://friendfeed.com/brlewis... - Bruce Lewis

Maybe Bruce analysis is too imaginary, but the question is THE question nobody answered: why did you do it, Paul? - Luca Sofri

I left a response on Bruce's entry (http://friendfeed.com/brlewis...). I'll write more about this on my blog when I get some free time. - Paul Buchheit

Thanks. - Bonnie Foster

we all know what needs to happen. the question is, where? ... FB needs, - apart from being/it is, a large, general, open application platform, - 1. Smart keyboard shortkatze - and Im a kbsCzar to go to, 2. Aggregating facilities, smart /RSS/ .. 3. Full blogging facilities, capabilities, not 140 chars. 4. Full real time comments facilities, capabilities. 5. Real time, live, but ALSO... more... - pb:

I hope you're being open and honest with us. This time. :( - Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)

Good to know , we´ll see :) - Yahya

Thank you! I am sure you will do great things at FB. I just hope that the great app you built here isn't destroyed. I don't know of any other aggregation app that I can embed into my site like this one! - beersage

Congratulations on your successes, best wishes for more. And thanks for continuing to look out for us loyal, addicted FFanatics! - Rob Schieber

I hope it continues, i'm a new user and absolutely love it (wish i knew the value of it before)! Congrats! - Luis D. Santos

and let me add second, obvious, "Facebook needs" - Friendfeed bookmarklet, and Friendfeed tools - widgets, embedding - real time and not - of posts, and groups ...to embedd, to inject oneself into this thing called Internet ..... so, if FB listens to FF engineering long enough, they are going to get it .. right - pb:

Paul, what I am worried is not that you're brainwashed, but that there's simply no business need for Facebook to improve FriendFeed from now on, period. - Ihar Mahaniok

I have confidence Paul. While some of the comments were probably uncalled for, covering an investment (of time and money) in these times to move on and hopefully provide even 'better stuff' makes sense to me. It's pretty obvious there are a LOT of people that don't want to 'lose' Friendfeed. (I wouldn't hold a town hall for a few weeks though :) - Charlie Anzman

Congrats, Paul. It's sad that people have to make these uncalled for hatred comments about Facebook though. Why can't both sites work together. I think Facebook will do better with FF and vise versa. Take the good features of both services. Don't boycott FB, enjoy it. I'm sick of the negative comments going on, that's all. :( - Molly Song ;)

Because I don't think Paul and the other FF developers would allow FB to do anything. I'm sorry, I am not going to think negative here like some here are. I guess I'm a fangirl for FB. - Molly Song ;)

Finally something about the changes on the horizon that isn't all d0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0om and whining. Thank you, Paul! :D - Christian (Simply X)

Paul, what about the content scam that FB T&C is, does it apply to Friendfeed now? Should we all start writing scripts to retroactively delete all content ever uploaded to Friendfeed? Elaborated a bit here - http://friendfeed.com/mbravo... - Michael Bravo

We know you'll try your best, Paul. But sometimes, you just can't win the dark side... - Winston Teo

Thanks Paul for all your efforts. Founders often want the best, but acquiring companies often have people with political/power issues or different/limited visions. - Mitchell Tsai

*throws a sheep at Paul* is that a good thing? - Yo. Shark Dog. from iPod

Yeahhhhhhh BOoooiiiiiiiii!!!!!!! - sofarsoShawn ~presque...

yes, thank you, Sergeant Paul ... well, good to hear we go on ... because if not, how about starting www.anotherFeed.com ... or, www.Letsgofeed.com ...... anyway, lets boost blogging capabilities, post more than current amount of chars, lets have TOP POSTS / clicks count list at the head of each group, some stats, lets index group headers, lets have MORE keyboard shortcuts .. - now ...... more... - pb:

Robert Scoble

Facebook employees are openly arguing with Arrington about hate speech. Interesting. I'll chime in later here: - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...

June 14, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Alyn William, Mike Elliott, Jérôme Cukier and 54 other people liked this

The Facebook employees are wrong. Net (in the comments) who is a former employee stated it well. - Robert Scoble

49 more comments

I'm so proud at Mike. - Orli Yakuel

totally agree. i can t understand why a Neo-Nazi group is more legal than a Breast-Feeding picture group. this is totally ridiculous and just proves the law is fucked up. Facebook should know it - Ouriel Ohayon

Also, the Facebook employees can't have it both ways. They already censor lots of people and things. To claim that they can't in this case is lame and inconsistent. They take down mothers who are showing themselves breast feeding, for gosh's sake. And now the employees are saying that they need to keep up this hate speech? Really lame, and I really like some of the employees who are... more... - Robert Scoble

Ouriel: exactly. Plus, freedom of speech and the first amendment are meant for governments, not companies. Companies don't have to follow the first amendment at all. And there are plenty of places you can put your hate speech, there's no reason that Facebook needs to support that. - Robert Scoble

Now, if Facebook had ALWAYS supported freedom of speech and the first amendment principles THEN I would agree with the employees. But they don't. The company is really screwed on this issue. - Robert Scoble

just wrote a comment on TC: "I am sorry but i don't get this, with all the american jews organization in the world, why has no one sued Facebook already? I don t agree that advertisers should show Facebook the way. The law should. Mike keep up !" - Ouriel Ohayon

Facebook seems to have a seriously skewed idea of free speech, and of what is and isn't acceptable. One of my friends is using a restricted version of the site because FB say she is 'offensive', yet all she has done is tell a few bawdy jokes. Apparently, if she was calling for whole groups of people to be killed, that would be ok. - Kate

So, what's the answer? Yes to boobs or no to Nazis. - Johnny

People mix Freedom of Speech with Anarchy of ideas. Freedom does not mean you can say whatever you want. The limit of freedom is when the right to exist to a group of persons is denied. - Ouriel Ohayon

Johnny: if you're going to argue freedom of speech I just want consistency. If you're going to remove boobs then you gotta remove hate too and be proud of that. On the other hand, if you're going to argue a vigorous defense of freedom of speech (I've done that many times in my career) then you gotta go all the way. Hint: spam is speech. Facebook removes that. Facebook is inconsistent and wrong because of its inconsistency. - Robert Scoble

Are you saying that if you want to engage in hate speech you just need to form a company and then you are exempt. - Marian Pike

Marian: no, I never even thought through that. I just am pointing out that Facebook is inconsistent and therefore it is NOT a vigorous defender of freedom of speech and is wrong in this case to be proud that it's letting the hate speech stay up. Lots of people totally misunderstand the first amendment and freedom of speech, including the three Facebook employees I see posting there. - Robert Scoble

Marian: I find it sad that Facebook pulls down all sorts of content all the time (they removed all my content for 24 hours and these three employees never said a word) yet they let this crap stay up. Inconsistency. That's why Facebook is wrong. - Robert Scoble

Robert, completely agree. I just thought I would just pose the question to the group because in some discussions around this issue that I have seen, some people tend to be good at expressing outrage without then expressing the solution. - Johnny

It is easy to censor images. Words are a whole different issue. Facebook have put themselves in a difficult position. - thinkQuick

Johnny: if it were my company I'd decide up front which road I'm going to go down. Either be a strict first amendment type and resist all attempts to pull down ANY content from the site, or say "we have community standards here and we'll pull down content for any reason, at any time, especially if that content pisses off some of our users." If they took either stance I'd be OK. - Robert Scoble

Freedom of speech has its own limitations. If someone will argue that calling: "Death to the red-head children of Virginia" is allowed by the name of the first amendment, then he/she has problems understanding Democracy boundaries. - Nir Ben Yona

Nir: even in USA freedom of speech has some limitations. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, for instance. - Robert Scoble

Robert, wow, I didn't know the issue is that restricted... - Nir Ben Yona

Indeed. This is a sticky situation they are in... - Johnny

Nir: yup, there are lots of places where you can't say anything you want. Journalism students learn about those in media law. Also, go ahead and threaten death to the President and see what happens. - Robert Scoble

If someone write a comment at your blog that violates your readers and you know that as a result of that something wrong can happen, would you take it off? sure you would. It's practically the same. Freedom of speech is one thing, but if no one is there to take responsibility and control over some of the content, it can lead to a non reversible disaster. I'm actually concern about the situation, and I'm backing Mike on his posts 101%. - Orli Yakuel

In terms of FaceBook, surely, because of it's global reach, there should be some attempt to take into account thwe different laws surrounding freedom of speech and hate-speech around the world, and come to a balanced view? I know these groupd are blocked in Germany & Austria, where such talk is a criminal offence; shouldn't the existence of such laws, and International Law concerning genocide, be taken into account in framing policy regarding this? - Nigel

Orli: actually, in the past, I've taken a strong defense of freedom of speech. Lately, though, I've switched my stance and will take off a variety of speech. Just be consistent about it. Freedom of speech only applies to governments, anyway. - Robert Scoble

Nigel: again, it's consistency that matters. It's perfectly fine to say "we'll keep all content up unless it breaks a law around the world somewhere." Just be consistent, though. Don't take down some content and then say you're defending some principle by keeping other content up. - Robert Scoble

I absolutely agree with Mike on this one...what do other sites like Blogger or Digg do with this type of content? - Anthony Feint

Whether Facebooks censors something or not is up to them, they are a private company. I just wish they were consistent if you are going to use the Freedom of Speech mantra, then you need to apply it across the board and not pick and choose. - Kim Landwehr

I'm appalled to see people like Kyle responding to Arrington's post and saying: "I really don’t understand what’s wrong with hate speech. Of course hate crime is horrible (though really, is it any worse than ‘normal’ crime?), but I fail to see how speech can hurt people. I’m not even going to get into the difficulty of defining what speech ‘hateful’ and what isn’t." This guy doesn't... more... - Nir Ben Yona

By supporting those hate groups, Facebook literally empowers them, and once they'll meet outside of Facebook, it can (and will) lead to irreversible disaster. - Orli Yakuel

I need to seriously consider whether I can continue to use Facebook after seeing the responses to that article. - Donald Forth

Freedom of speech is like freedom of religion. Freedom of religion necessarily implies and includes freedom FROM religion as well. Freedom of speech means freedom from speech, it means I don't have to listen. While it is admirable that Facebook does not want to deny anyone anyone's right to free speech, it is well within Facebook's right to say, "Yes. You have a right to say whatever you like, just not on MY website. You are more than free to create your own hate based social network." - Marvin Price

If sites like Facebook and Twitter want to become "utilities" like electricity or the phone company, they need to figure out a way to remove themselves from the transaction. They're platforms. They're infrastructure. They should provide a system for users to exchange messages and content and for users to filter content as they see fit. They need to get out of the business of "owning" content and controlling what content can and can't be exchanged on their platform. - Ken Sheppardson

Suppose the phone company tried to determine what you could and couldn't talk about with your friends... - Ken Sheppardson

Has no one seen that fb has closed down a Muslim hate group today? Check it out www.theage.com.au in the technology section. "We disabled the 'I Hate Muslims in Oz' group because it contained an expilcit statement of hate." Why is this double standard allowed? - travispuk

Just to be clear I am not unhappy that they have closed the group, but why not close the neo-Nazi one also and at the same time proclaim that they are protecting free speech! - travispuk

Not the first time they have done this - the first time was on Ezra Callahan's note: http://www.facebook.com/reqs... - it's a shame most of the comments are now gone (due to notes' 100 comments at a time limit) - there were some classic and overwhelming displays of stupidity. - JIDF

Thanks for keeping this live Scoble. I hesitated for various reasons for a long time to say anything about this hoping that facebook would change their mind. But the seriousness of the matter made me change my mind. - net

The "double standard" is the result of the fact Facebook doesn't exist in a cultural, ethnic, religious or legal vacuum. Its standards reflect those of the employees, and those standards are always going to be in conflict with one group or another trying to use the platform. I can't really think of any belief system that doesn't have some inherent internal inconsistencies, so those... more... - Ken Sheppardson

Also of interest is how many Facebook employees "liked" the note (including Randi Zuckerberg, who recently threatened to abuse her power @ Facebook: http://www.thejidf.org/2009...) - JIDF

Someone should start a breast-feeding Nazis group and watch Facebook explode from cognitive dissonance. - Akiva

Please checkout/join/support: United Against Holocaust Denial On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/reqs... - over 50,000 have joined in less than a month! - JIDF

@Akiva, I just blew Coke through my nose when I read your comment. Wierd image in my mind now of breast feeding neo-Nazis. - travispuk

[courtsies] - Akiva

How much is the value of freedom for you? And who decides for you, what can be published and what cannot be published in the internet? For me as a Facebook user, of course, Facebook has the right to decide - I will and I have to accept their decisions and I will continue to use the service OR NOT! If these Hate Speech Groups/Pages are illegal in US - why are you dont call the Police?... more... - Arne Krueger

just joined: http://www.facebook.com/group... and if i find such groups - i will press the report button! - Arne Krueger

@Ouriel your context for use of Anarchy word suggests you used it in common vulgar *scarecrow* sense... I'm sorry to say but that's pathetic - Freedom vs Anarchy sounds too lame to me. - A. T.

You can prevent the speech, but none of us can change the heart where it grows. Only God can do that. Education (as in our systems) will only make a person smarter in the way that they already believe. Suppression will only force it underground. Oppression makes it gain adherents. Reason will get you into the "carriage in the Inner Circle" where you will go round and round without... more... - Melanie Reed

melanie that was epic - Tyler Gillies

The biggest question that needs to be asked it what makes denying the Holocaust hate speech? If they present their argument with facts then why is it considered hate speech? - Gavin

Robert, thanks for writing about this. I wrote a paper in my MBA class concerning this issue, and Im glad the discussion is still raging on. Facebook cannot have it both ways. You either monitor all content or none. Once you start removing some content, where do you stop? - Dani Klein

Mike Fruchter

The embarrassment of American broadband - http://www.macworld.com/article...

April 26, 2009 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Rowley, Don Faulkner, Ingo and 13 other people liked this

FiOS. You get what you pay for. If American companies raised their rates to improve quality, there would be a public "outrage". - Mona Nomura

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Other countries have managed to do better bandwidth over copper than the US companies... Yes, fiber-to-the-house is the ultimate, but still. (Cringely has gone on about this at length: http://www.pbs.org/cringel... ) - Andrew C (✓)

high speed wireless anywhere I happen to be standing would be the ultimate. :D - Tony C (Unrated)

Comparing to other countries, picking apart and discussing what is technically wrong is not going to fix anything. Andrew, I read the article and the answer is so simple: "It is an ugly story of greed and poor regulation that you can read in excruciating detail in a 406-page e-book that is among this week's links." It's the epitome of our country, our culture, and the public's desires for instant gratification. Until we fix the bigger problem, all of these little problems will keep springing up. - Mona Nomura

How do you imagine things get fixed without discussion of the problems? And it's not about "desires for instant gratification". It's about regulatory capture. The telcos and cable cos got the FCC to lay off their little monopolies, and in return sat around and didn't bother to invest in upgrading their infrastructure. - Andrew C (✓)

Look at the bigger picture. What is the root of this problem? How did we get to this? The closest way I can articulate this, is patches - as in Windows. Even if specific problems are fixed, new ones will spring up. It's a waste of time, energy, and money. Again, quick fixes are only temporary solutions. So the real question is: what is the root. - Mona Nomura

There's a bigger root than regulatory capture? Sure, tell me what it is. - Andrew C (✓)

It seems to all be about short term profit and not actually investing to fix problems in infrastructure. People can argue it is gov. sponsored monopoly and whatever they want but we have what we have right now. A great example of what is wrong is this: http://www.dailytech.com/Time+Wa... - Dean Clark

Also, you can't even teach a starving person to fish until he's at least fed for the day. Sometimes patches have to be made even if they're not the ultimate fix. - Andrew C (✓)

LOLOL Ok Andrew. You are right and I am wrong. Dean - excellent link. Thank you. - Mona Nomura

"You are right and I am wrong." I'm not saying that yet, just thinking it real loud. But I still don't get what you think is the larger problem or the real root cause. - Andrew C (✓)

Have some sympathy for us poor ADSL users down under in Australia. Market dominated by one massive company (Telstra), over priced + under speed = ripped off. - David Eedle

AJ Kohn

Drunkenness and Porn Threaten UK Business - http://www.marketingcharts.com/interac...

February 9, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Scot Mcphee liked this

"Coming to work intoxicated or hung over, watching porn in the office and sending misdirected and inappropriate emails to co-workers and clients are just three of the things office workers in the UK do to compromise their employers’ security and reputation, according to a survey of British office workers from Proofpoint." - AJ Kohn from Bookmarklet

Robert Scoble

Google maps Australia's bushfires to help emergency services - http://www.neowin.net/news...

February 8, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Chris Le'cand-Harwood, Andrew, Matt Cutts and 19 other people liked this

People tried to escape the fires in their cars - the fires sweep across kilometers of bush in a matter of minutes so people get suddenly overwhelmed - and the emergency services are still finding their burnt out remains all over the countryside. It's a pretty horrific state of affairs. Good on google for using the technology to help out. - Scot Mcphee

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My sister and family are near Glenburn, one of the areas affected. They're currently safe and the Google Map and CFA data has helped us work out what's going on - David McDonald

Check out this: RT @drthomasho: @deangroom Urgent request. Fire area needs cell ph chargers. SMS 0431474370 if in Melb as I can collect an #bushfires. (via @jeffsonstein) - Melanie Reed

Just did an IM with mate in Melbourne and pointed him to maps and then did a blog entry on our conversation. http://tinyurl.com/5ur3cm - Alan Lukachko

Fellow Data Portability board member Elias Bizannes posted a piece on this at: http://liako.biz/2009... - Steve Repetti

It's been an horrific couple of days in this part of the world - the worst bushfires on record. - jjprojects

Looking at this map shows how close it came to where I live. In fact, I can't believe that there were no fires in our town. Thankful I have a home to go to tonight when so many don't. - Penny

twitter has been keeping up to date on the things that have been happening. FF, not so much. - Terry O'Fee

As usual Twitter has been instrumental. - Chris Frost

yeah, FF is turning into another message board. oh, unless it's US news ... - Terry O'Fee

I'm getting a new haircut as my best of the day atm, I need to adjust things here somehow, no offence intended to good haircuts. - jjprojects

it's not big enough to be truly spread apart for different people yet... unless there are a lot of people and most just like to talk about hair and LOLcats and i'm completely naive... - Terry O'Fee

Bill Romanos

Reading: "Ancient whales gave birth on land" ( http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news... )

February 3, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Scot Mcphee and Tyson Key liked this

Bill Romanos

Ancient whales gave birth on land - http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news...

February 3, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Scot Mcphee, Lola Bean (Penguin) and Shevonne liked this

I've seen people who look like this, so now I know who their ancestors are ;) - Shevonne

ROFL @Shevonne "Ah, so that's how she did it." Yep, I know those people too. - Anika

Collecting blog coverage here: http://friendfeed.com/e... - Bora Zivkovic

Paul Buchheit

UK Terror Law To Make Photographing Police Illegal - http://www.prisonplanet.com/uk-terr...

January 30, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

AJ Batac, EricaJoy, David Th and 58 other people liked this

"New laws set to be passed in England and Canada would make it illegal to use bad language or take photographs of police officers, moving us further away from the idea of police as public servants and more towards the notion of cops assuming God-like status. According to the British Journal of Photography, the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008, which is set to become law on February 16, “allows for the arrest and imprisonment of anyone who takes pictures of officers ‘likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism’.” The punishment for this offense is imprisonment for up to ten years and a fine. However, even before the passage of the legislation, police in Britain have already been harassing and arresting fully accredited press photographers merely for taking pictures of them at rallies and protests." - Paul Buchheit from Bookmarklet

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The naive will never get it so what shall we, the few who do, do? - Gail Gardner

This is very bad for democracy! - Jeff P. Henderson

One would assume it would cover Video as well, which would make the Rodney King and Oscar Grant tapes terrorist acts. - david koblas

This is terrible, if only I had an MP to complain to (mine's Stephen Harper...). - Kenton

The situation in the U.S. is already far worse than most realize. I personally know of ridiculous incidents including a man walking alone to the grocery store (in the town he lives in) with an empty backpack (to carry his groceries home in) being threatened with arrest and a woman (over 50, under 5'3" and under 140 pounds) being dragged to the ground by three police officers and handcuffed because "walking (between a convenience store and the strip mall next door to it) is not permitted" in that town. - Gail Gardner

More examples 1) Highway Patrol tried to put the OWNER of a truck's wife out on the highway because the law prohibits anyone riding in a truck without some particular form. - Gail Gardner

Another 2) Woman commuting to her job on a major highway stopped. Police claim they found something in her vehicle, never charged her with anything and kept it. She was still trying to get it back (at great expense) when I last heard. This happens all the time because police can seize and auction property without proving or even charging you with a crime. - Gail Gardner

3) I was waiting at a tiny truck stop for someone who was running late. Even though I bought a meal, and then dessert and was talking to people who knew me the young girl who worked there wanted to call the police because I had "been there too long". Fortunately for me the older woman who worked there came and asked me why I was still there and then talked her out of calling. Are they teaching young people to call police any time someone they don't know is in a business "too long"? - Gail Gardner

These five examples all happened in Texas but in five different cities involving different law enforcement agencies. Surely others have heard about similar issues? - Gail Gardner

Ridiculous, in especially in regards to journalism & excessive police of which occurs frequently - sofarsoShawn ~presque...

We have to stand up to this rubbish before it goes too far. Maybe photographers should have a rally and just photograph every policemen along the way. They cant imprison every photographer in Britain. - Pete Gilbert

@Pete - unfortunately, "we", are too often in the minority. Most do not see this in the greater context of censorship / free-speech (freedom in general) and is not something that really resonates with them. - JA Castillo

UK government a bunch of assholes..... - Rob Sellen :o)

you *must* be joking. - MikeAmundsen

Hilarious, I'll have to look into this! - Toby Graham

So, lets get this straight. Even the BBC can't use a pic of a policeman in thier stories??????? - Roberto Bonini

That's crappy. - Justin Yost

WTF? They have to go and ruin things for everyone. "Yay" for the UK Government indeed. :( - Tyson Key

So if you're protesting, are harassed, and photog the cops, you're a terrorist? When did "protect & serve" turn into "know your place, or else"? - Pete D

I used to be an anglophile, but the way things are going, the closest I'll come to the UK is watching Top Gear on BBC America. Too bad. - Steve Lowe

@Internet Strategist, I actually have a Texas story that's ON-topic, but no time to share it at the moment. @Pete D: 9/11/01. And to my British friends: what was done to fight this law when it was before Parliament last year? Actually it looks like it's been stricken, or dramatically revised, in the final bill. - Anthony Citrano

Explanatory note from House of Lords committee report: "For the offence to be committed, [the] information obtained, published or communicated would have to be such as to raise a reasonable suspicion that it was intended to be used to assist in the preparation or commission of an act of terrorism, and must be of a kind that was likely to provide practical assistance to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism..." - Anthony Citrano

Thanks Paul, this is what is great about FF from a blogger's perspective, so many good story ideas can be found here. Blogged about this based on your post here: http://thomashawk.com/2009... - Thomas Hawk

Anthony, do you have a link for that explanatory note? - Thomas Hawk

and like the meek, well-conditioned sheep we've become, the British people will simply bend over and take it. The French would be setting fire to cars in Paris if their elected representatives tried to get away with this. - Andrew Terry

Cops, the whole nature of policing is corrupt power exercised corruptly. It brings into question the very mentality of *any* person who wants to be a cop and wield such petty power over their fellow humans. I'm sick of our elected representatives giving in to the "law and order" (laura norder) lobby's request for ever-increasing police-state powers at every turn. Frankly it's time to be militant about it. F--k the police. - Scot Mcphee

I'm betting on a flash mob (pun semi-intended) of photographers going to London a few hours prior to the introduction, and taking a load of photos of CCTV cameras and police officers... - Tyson Key

Love prisonplanet.com. Unfortunate to learn that it will be applied in Canada. In Quebec, we can take pictures of officers in a certain way (meaning if it's not to bother them). Obviously, someone who's taking tons of 'em targeting only one guy would be abusive but this? - Zu from AOD

Police in Haverstraw, NY, took away a geocache and never returned my calls. - Morton Fox

I call shenanigans on "Zu". prisonplanet is conspiracy profiteering, nothing more. The people in this thread are talking about actual events and proposed policy. - Richard Walker

If someone commits or prepares an act of terrorism commits a crime and this should be enough. Taking pictures should not be a crime if someone then break the law with those pictures by doing something dodgy then they should be charged for that crime. Next we might not be able to use the internet or Google Maps or whatever because we might have bad intentions. - M F

http://www.independent.co.uk/news... - M F

Not good. - Ontario Emperor

This a joke!! I'm now scared to go up to London and take photographs! Is there anything left that we can take photos of?? :-( - Kol Tregaskes

a step toward social breakdown with a step toward public servant security - GlennIsaac

Aren't I silly -- I didn't notice the link is prisonplanet.... which I am hightly skeptical of. The source is the British Journal of Photography, so I guess I have to call shenanigans on myself! - Richard Walker

@Thomas - sorry for delay, I need to learn to check in on my comments feeds. Yes, I found that at the UK Parliament site. Here's the page for the bill and its progress, revisions, etc. The committee report is in there: http://services.parliament.uk/bills... - Anthony Citrano

Thanks Anthony. I'm reading it now. - Roberto Bonini

I wonder how they define bad language, and how they can possibly justify that that provision has a place in a "Counter Terrorism Act". It seems to be a far more dangerous proposition than the already absurd photography provision since there would not be any evidence, a policeman could always justify an arrest by claiming that the suspect used bad language. - Robin Barooah

Louis Gray

How can the Web truly be “open” when only young white male geeks get to decide what the Web is? - http://dawnsplan.wordpress.com/2009...

January 31, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Nicole Simon, Billy Warhol, chrisofspades and 65 other people liked this

Dawn writes: "“Sexism” is a word I very seldom use and certainly do not brandish carelessly. Neither do I mean it on an individual basis. These days most men aren’t ignorant-based bigots against women. But Silicon Valley and the Web itself are extremely “institutionally sexist” given the fact that the vast majority of VCs, technologists, and tech reporters/bloggers are male. Even as women are now online in greater numbers than men, female ideas and wants and desires largely go unexecuted. " - Louis Gray from Bookmarklet

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While there's definitely a serious gender disparity, anyone who thinks that Silicon Valley is run by 'only white people' hasn't been inside most of these companies. - Kevin Fox

I don't think that's true Louis -- I sure don't think of myself as young, and I think I help "decide what the web is." If someone wants to make the web do something new, thereby changing what it is, what exactly is in their way? This is a very offensive article in many many ways! - Dave Winer

I commented on the post, and shared this to get more discussion, which is happening. Kevin is right in terms of the diverse nationalities powering these companies - and the Valley itself. Dave is right in terms of the fact that he's out of his 20s and still coming up with great ideas. Dawn's take is that the majority of ideas, and funding are going to companies with these backgrounds. - Louis Gray

I say we execute 10,000,000 Caucasian American males! After all, everything is their fault! - Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct

Articles like this get written every year and nothing happens. Kevin and Dave's responses here are typical of the responses these articles generate, albeit a lot less crass than the same responses I've seen in the past. But the denials mean nothing. When I go to tech events and seemingly get ignored by everyone one does have to wonder. The females who get attention or either eye candy or have power, but they're almost always white (or Asian). - Anika

What's more, these same articles get written every year in political blog circle too and everyone is quick to point out that Markos (DailyKos guy) is Latino. All the excuses in the world aren't going to change what's really happening. There's a reason Digby didn't let anyone know she was a woman for years. If people had known, she would have put in some 2nd o 3rd tier political blogging circle. - Anika

I don't think it's sexist, cause there isn't someone stopping them doing this. My own industry (Network Administration) gets leveed with the "sexist" tag because there are very few women doing the job. The major reason why is because there are few women that want to do this job. How many women are interested in technology to the level that we love it? Male geeks are a minority, girl geeks are an even smaller minority than the male one! I think the problem isn't sexism but rather the way kids are brought up - alphaxion

Just look at how many parents get worried if their little girl shows more interest in cars than dolls. If more girls are exposed to technology from a young age then their interest in it will continue into adulthood. The phrase "sexist" is thrown around too easily in an attempt to explain away such a marked difference in demographics when there's more going on than males stopping women from getting into these positions. - alphaxion

How many parents get worried if their girl shows interest in cars? - Anika

The fact that there is even a name for this kinda behaviour (tomboy) shows you how ingrained the mindset is that girls should play with dolls and make believe kitchens instead of cool robots and science kits. Someone I know jokingly comments that his kid is "a lesbian for sure" because she adores dinosaurs (though he does encourage her to be interested in things like that). - alphaxion

there is a social stigma surrounding girls that like things that have somehow been deemed "boys toys", likewise the same is also said about boys that are interested in "girls toys". Here's a simple test you can do, ask some random people what they think about computers. The majority of people, male and female, will see them as tools. A very small percentage will say they're cool. I'm willing to bet that more males than females will answer this way. That's where the problem is, that's not sexism. - alphaxion

Problem #1 – Silicon Valley’s inability to judge if an idea is truly good or not...LOLOLOL NO COMMENTS!!!!!!!!! Here is my er... example LOL :))))) http://twitter.com/SexySEO... - Lora Lufark

Thank you very much for getting discussion going, Louis! The main point I'd like to make clear is that while Amazon HAD to be created by a tech guy, that's no longer the case. There are a lot of great Web companies that could be created if people with nontech experience and skills could get funding and direct the development - paying the people who actually execute the plans with cash... more... - Dawn

Lora, I think just like in the liberal blogosphere, sheeple want to know who says something, rather than committ to a position. So, there are times, that I or others have written entries, only to have people pooh-pooh them, then Markos or Jane Hamsher writes the same thing weeks or months later and then the sheeple baaa their way into agreement. I see that just looking at how people respond to Louis or Robert S. I've seen others here posit similar items, yet they get shot down, mocked and/or ignored. - Anika

Actually that is only true if you are in the US. I'm in China and it certainly is not the case. Maybe it's only white male geeks if you are in the US and read English? - Paul Denlinger

If are ready for diversity then we need to promote it, that simple my 2 cents - Dan owns Comicsforge.com

btw, I started a room a month ago called "What Women Want" that's supposed to take a look at women's needs/desires vs. men's when it comes to the Web. We need more people! If you're at all interested, please look it up and give it a shot. Thanks! - Dawn

@anika I encounter that all the time, I'll say something and everyone ignores it. The same thing is then mentioned by someone like Chris Pirillo and suddenly "that's a great idea". I wonder if it's because people want this info to come from people who hold some form of authority in the realm they exist within. Until they say it, everything else is just some crackpot running their mouth. - alphaxion

FYI, here's what I wrote in the first post about the "What Women Want" room: This past month since I've started my "Dawn's Plan" blog, I've written a few posts about how I believe the Web needs more soft anthropology added to hard technology. I know I'm hitting a chord with women, because they keep writing to me and cheering me on! Clearly, women have some dissatisfactions with the WWW,... more... - Dawn

I once was told a story about a game called monopoly. A group of players had been at the monopoly table for three hours. They had amassed property and were acutely aware of the rules and how the game was best played to acquire property. Then comes along prospective players who wanted to sit at the table and play the game after standing and observing for some time. Finally, one of the group members offered a seat at the monopoly table to one of the observers. - Racism Occupied

I've just joined the "what women want' room (http://friendfeed.com/rooms...) because, yes, I'm a woman (lots of people are surprised about that apparently). I've been using technology in work in one form or another for most of the last 20-odd years and there is still an assumption that technical stuff will be only done by men. But sexism is a tricky thing to even define. There appears to have been progress made and I would hope that a person's gender... - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

Once seated at the table the observer realized with embarassment that with no money or property the game would be impossible to compete. Thus pressure was put on the Player who offered the seat to loan or give a start up stake to the new player......This is what I see in this thread....I think there is promise in this way of thinking concerning inclusion and openess, So, I would address racism as well as sexism as potential impediments for inclusion. ps Anika, I feel you @bcultral - Racism Occupied

...or ethnicity, or orientation or any other characteristic does not determine their opportunities. I don't think this is the case yet but I also don't think it's a foolish dream. My daughters are familiar and comfortable using computers and have no worries about being seen as weird. Where there are problems like Patricia and Anika have outlined it is important to stand up and say it isn't right. No one should be sidelined because of prejudice. - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

if you can ignore websites like nonsociety which just make women look worse..... - Terry O'Fee

But I was slightly confused by the article because it seemed to imply that all 'high-tech geeks' are men, and that just isn't the case. It might be that most high-tech geeks with power' are men, and that does appear to be true. Not all the ideas-people are women, not all the engineers are men. Enabling all people who have good ideas (but perhaps no technical knowledge on how to implement) to have a shot at seeing those ideas realised is an interesting idea. A side-effect of the credit crunch might... - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

Robin: Great story; perfect illustration. The only thing I would add is that with the Web, it's not a zero sum game. Everybody will prosper more as great people show up who just need that seat at the table. "By lifting up others, we life up ourselves." WorldofHiglet: thanks for joining. - Dawn

...be better modeling that will allow non-technical people the freedom to explore and develop ideas. - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

Dawn zero sum game it is not: India to launch a $10 laptop, - Racism Occupied

+1 to WorldofHiglet for that last sentence. Perfect! - Dawn

Patricia, I'd love to!! Your place or mine? ;) - Dawn

@dawn, lol. email me! it's on my site - www.dailypatricia.com - Patricia

I should take my case as a point. I presented at a VC gathering at the Hatchery.vc last week. I was one of two persons of color at the event. I was actually set up to fail in the presentation setting and delivery of my startup. I am the founder of SpokenWord.Tv and have designed a software I believe will shift the paradigm of communications and social networking and media. This idea seems to frighten and offend in that it is too simple. Anyway, I maintain the audacity of hope. - Racism Occupied

Patricia, Thank You for the offer of assistance...which email address?@bcultral. - Racism Occupied

It rather annoys me when people just pooh-pooh women off and claim we just aren't interested in tech, and that's why we aren't visible. I know darned sure I'm not the only tech-loving female out there. Hopefully the "you don't exist" voices will be silenced before too long. - MiniMage

Msg sent. Thank you Patricia I apologize for requesting you disclose your email rather than finding it on your website :) @bcultral - Racism Occupied

alphaxion, instead of talking in generalities & abstracts, lets focus on the fact that articles like this are written all the time and women who are in tech, look at it and say, "damn skippy". What your random friend does with his kid, has nothing to do with having to read articles like this every year for the past 15 years and the impact this has the lives of these actual adult women. - Anika

I was having a similar discussion the other night with Sheryl Sandberg, Mike Arrington, and Arianna Huffington. Sheryl pointed out that many of the top executives at Google are women. She is no. 2 exec at Facebook now. On the other hand the sexism in this industry is pretty deep. Arrington told us about all the sexist comments they have to delete from TechCrunch when women reporters work for them. He had one reporter quit after two weeks because of the comments. - Robert Scoble

But a lot of females aren't helping the situation any. - Mona Nomura

I find that Dawn's use of me is pretty inaccurate. I have flown 150,000 miles in past year to get outside of Silicon Valley. I am writing to you from Davos. Here sexism is far deeper. The politicians, media, and finance companies are mostly run by old white males. I find far more diversity inside EVERY Silicon Valley company. Second, she misquotes me on number of followers. One reason I don't like Dawn is I find she just does not treat other people very well and she is often inaccurate in her writings. - Robert Scoble

(I blocked Dawn during political season because I found she was very uninformed and she was inaccurate and abusive back then, too, something I find is leaking out again in this post). - Robert Scoble

Mona: this problem is deep and is not going to get solved easily. Back in 1994 during my first computer programming conference I helped plan (Visual Basic Insiders Technical Summit) 425 males showed up and two women did. Today conferences are about 20% women. My wife talked with Sandberg about how women often are tougher for other women to work for. She said this is a problem and one that is overcome with good coaching -- she says she is noticing that changing in the valley, though. - Robert Scoble

By the way, Huffington got funded and she is not a geek. - Robert Scoble

Robert - I agree, that things are slowly starting to change in the Valley and hopefully it will start changing in the blogosphere as well. :) BTW I would love to meet Maryam one of these days. I've only heard really great things about her and she sounds so sharp and insightful. You are a lucky, lucky, man! - Mona Nomura

Mona you are welcome at our house anytime. I am lucky, agreed! - Robert Scoble

Mona it should start changing due to Arianna Huffington, although even Arrington is hiring women (just hired another one two weeks ago). She has $25 million in funding. I am sure she will hire some great writers over the next few years. - Robert Scoble

I think offering up Huffington is unfair. Her background of high-powered exes and syndicated columns puts her in a different category. To go back to politics, it's like Jane Hamsher. Everyone says she's smart, but the reason the "A-list" liberal bloggers started touting her is because she's movie-industry famous. There are lots of other female political writers who are more intelligent & and less "bigoted" than Hamsher, but they get ignored because they didn't produce Natural Born Killers. - Anika

Thanks Robert :) I am a huge Milan fan, as well! And great Huffington post tidbit, thanks for sharing. :) - Mona Nomura

Hmmm I just read the piece and disagree with a majority of points. In this day and age a good idea is a good idea, sharp individuals are sharp individuals, regardless of race, sex, and stature. It is great to celebrate the differences between female and males, but shedding more light to the separation by labeling may be hindering towards progression of being treated as "equals". Shouldn't it be a group/room to discuss opposing views open to anyone as opposed to *just* females? - Mona Nomura

Anika - but it's a start and that's what's important. As more aggregating services become widely used, the tight knit blogging community will no longer be a small circle, due to exposure of the 'less known'. What's important and should be the focus is not dwelling on the past, but how and what we (the 'little people') choose to say and how we present ourselves, to gain the same interest and following as those currently in "A-list" status. - Mona Nomura

Anika: this is life. Deal with it. Danl Lewin, co-founder of NeXT, told me that Steve Jobs talked IBM out of $500 million without even having a prototype. I could not do that. He got it done based on his past experience. Arianna did the same. Good for her! Shows this is not a women thing, but rather a human thing. How do we get a broader range of people to be successful? This is a tough, tough, issue. - Robert Scoble

I have experienced more gender bias in some places than in others. The gender bias against female programmers I experienced in the UK was enough to make me walk away from the profession for three years. - Lisha Sterling from twhirl

Somebody told me that Robert is once again spreading hateful things about me, so I read this thread on another browser that doesn't have me logged into FF. He stated: "One reason I don't like Dawn is I find she just does not treat other people very well and she is often inaccurate in her writings." I'd like for him to show even one example of me treating somebody poorly. And as for... more... - Dawn

...was for many years, which I am not and never was and never would be. I'm a mainstream Catholic and proud of it. I defended myself against Robert's anti-Christian bigotry and will continue to defend myself as he makes these ridiculous accusations against me. Not treating people nicely? Robert knows that in the past few years my husband died just three days before our 25th wedding... more... - Dawn

@alphaxion but it *is* sexism when you raise your children like that and label kids who like the "opposite genders' toys" to be gay or abnormal. Sexism isn't just what happens at the very last moment leading up to a job. It's also sexist that male-dominated interests and professions are both higher paying and more highly valued, and that studies show that when women begin to dominate a... more... - Lisha Sterling from twhirl

Dukeswharf, I have no hard feelings against Robert, as I wrote when he blocked me: http://friendfeed.com/e... That he did that actually surprised me (it took me a while to figure out what happened) and, frankly, it hurt my feelings, because I had thought we were friends and he often said he *liked* being... more... - Dawn

...and to my future prospects. It's not true what he said. I don't deserve this. - Dawn

I'm not saying the labelling of people when they're brought up isn't sexist, I'm pointing at that being a massive contributer to the current situation. I've been a network admin for 10 years and I've never stopped a woman joining my department, the problem is that no women have ever applied to the job openings (we've had a couple in the desktop support in that time). The lack of women in an industry isn't always because of active sexism from the people in that department. That's what I'm saying. - alphaxion

I think the problem stems from how we bring up children and pidgeon hole them early - that is certainly sexism. But blaming an industry for being "sexist" purely based on the lack of women isn't looking at the real cause and is jumping to conclusions. As I said, in my 10 years of netadmin I have never seen a woman apply for the openings in our department. Am I then sexist for having never employed one in my team? - alphaxion

Hey, Dukeswharf, didn't you read above what I said, that I'm *Catholic.* I know all about forgiveness. Ha! Okay, I'll officially say it for your benefit. I forgive, Robert. I apologized to him on my blog and I'll never mention him again in any of my blog posts so he won't feel compelled to beat me up anymore and I won't have to forgive him again later. ;) - Dawn

bearing in mind that I actively encouraged and then financed my GF to go through uni on a video game design degree - she is one of only 2 or 3 girls in her year (she's in the final one now). Video Games is also a very heavily male dominated industry too. I do find it disgusting that women get paid less than men for the same job, but then I'm currently paid about £6k less than my market average so I think it is also partially down to the individual company as well as attitudes of the managers. - alphaxion

Alphaxion: I specifically said in this article that I am talking about *institutional sexism* which is not the same as individual sexism. No, you are not sexist for never employing a woman on your team. - Dawn

@dawn what I'm trying to point out is that the problem is, people will jump to conclusions of institutional sexism when there isn't such an artificial barrier to entry. There may be a different cause that results in a lack of female participation - be it sexism during their upbringing or just that it is such a niche thing that it's minorities of both genders that get interested enought to choose it as a career in the first place. - alphaxion

I know plenty of female CSE's. And NOBODY gets to decide "what the Web is", because it is what's on it, and anybody can put anything they want on it. - Will Higgins™

However, don't think I'm suggesting that all is equal because it certainly isn't, I agree that lower wages is a sign of institutional sexism, so too is how children are brought up. It's not always in the workplace as to where the sexism originated. Ask any male geek whether they'd like to see more women in their particular avenue of interest/career and the majority will say they would love to. But ask women what industry they would love to work in and I can bet you that not many of them will suggest tech. - alphaxion

Alphaxion: Sure, I think men will always dominate tech, and that's fine with me. What my bigger issue is that tech shouldn't keep so much power and control to itself alone. Nontech people should ideally be able to direct techies to develop things that the techies wouldn't necessarily create themselves. Take FF for example. If it had been a team of women doing the initial design, it... more... - Dawn

of course.. diveristy is the spice of life :) If one thing working in IT has taught me is that so few people are interested in tech enough to suggest ideas like that. They see tech as part of their job and as a tool, not as part of their social life. This is changing tho, especially since the likes of facebook et al have certainly shown many that tech can be a part of their social life. This will, in turn feed into tech as they begin to realise what we techies have been telling them for the past 2decades! - alphaxion

the photo meetups that I go to typically have a lot more females than the tech meetups that I go to. - Thomas Hawk

American culture is built on the concept of the lowest common denominator. Mass marketing itself with campaigns and launch dates and all the agon of competition is a war to spread stereotypes and present a popular culture that is built on coarse and common concepts. Geeks are stereotyped, men and women are stereotyped, all of us are lumped in one pile or another when we are all. in fact, individual and subtle. More women media and tech leadership would transform it. We are missing 50% of our talent. - Phil Boiarski

i work in the tech industry, more gaming side of it and there's one female pokie tech who works for the big company that is australia wide. - Terry O'Fee

isms as impediments... - Racism Occupied

This thread proves why we need threaded conversations here. I can't follow anything any more! - Anika

Interesting how the title of this post inferred exclusion but immediately directed the focus to Sexism. I mention isms as impediments to broaden the subject to the systemic dynamics which create exclusion. For me personally, exclusion invokes thoughts and feelings of structural and personal racism. Unfortunately, many do not understand just how racism works structurally. Because racism is systemic, individuals have difficulty identifying the role they play in perpetuating racism. . - Racism Occupied

Tech holds on to stuff so tightly because when it doesn't it gets screwed. This has been proven time and time again. - Kevin

Robin: I agree with you and I think it's a great point. I did intend for the post to speak to all exclusions, but being a white woman, when it comes to sharing details and examples, I'd feel awkward and maybe even disingenuous trying to speak for racial minorities. Again, I think you're point is well taken. A lot of people reacted to this post as a personal attack, as me accusing them... more... - Dawn

Kevin: What do you mean? I'm interested to hear more. - Dawn

It is True that a lot of the Main A-Lister Web2.0 Tech Voices are White Males thankfully there are also great Female Voices like Emily from eHub + Susan Mernit of Yahoo! + some other less Visual Minorities being heard* but there's no doubt the Old White Boys Club rules the VC Roost in Silicon Valley* - Billy Warhol

Kol Tregaskes

says videos should never play automatically on entering a web page, very annoying.

January 29, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Kamilah Reed (K. Gill), Racism Occupied, Scot Mcphee and 2 other people liked this

don't know who you mean *cough*mevio*cough* ;) - alphaxion

;-) - Kol Tregaskes

Kol Tregaskes

Map of London's Underground Railways (1933) - http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clive...

January 27, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Scot Mcphee, Stewart Heys, Jemm and 4 other people liked this

Interesting to compare it to the current map: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets... (PDF link). - Kol Tregaskes

"Cockfosters" - Jemm

Joey Gibson

I love it when Severed Heads come up in my iTunes Party Shuffle.

January 26, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

"Joey" and Scot Mcphee liked this

what track of the sevs? - Scot Mcphee

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@Scot, it was Greater Reward. - Joey Gibson

That's on Rotund for Success isn't it? I have the vinyl somewhere. My favorite albums would be "Since the Accident" (i have the Australian pressing with the lock grooves, Tom told me it's pretty rare) and "Bad Mood Guy" ... Hot With Fleas is a great single too. I rate Since the Accident as one the top 5 albums of the 1980s. I've also got some of his recent stuff too - he finally killed off the Sevs only last year. Works as an academic now at the UNSW College Of Fine Arts. - Scot Mcphee

You should also check out Garry Bradbury's solo work and another band of his called "SIZE". - Scot Mcphee

@Scot, you actually know Tom Ellard? That's very cool! - Joey Gibson

My favorite SevHeads albums are Big Bigot and Bad Mood Guy. I haven't been able to get into any of the more recent stuff, unforuntately. - Joey Gibson

Bill Romanos

Space Shuttle Cockpit - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...

January 26, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

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Bill Romanos

The Kyrgyzstan Cyber Attack That No One Is Talking About - http://intelfusion.net/wordpre...

January 26, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Racism Occupied, Gordon Saunders, Scot Mcphee and Tyson Key liked this

You can expect Russia to slowly tighten it's grip on it's former satellites. The US is already forced to accept this situation in order to get supplies through former Soviet nations into Afghanistan, given it's only other supply route, through Pakistan, is severely disrupted. Meanwhile, Germany will allow Russia to have it's way with the Ukraine because of the natural gas situation.... more... - Scot Mcphee

Leo Laporte

Stephen Fry and Jonathan Ross talk Twitter to 4m Brits on TV - http://uk.youtube.com/watch...

January 25, 2009 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

Jordi Soler, Marek Blazek, 3rdincome and 11 other people liked this

Stephen Fry can be followed on FF here: http://friendfeed.com/rooms... - Mel Buckpitt

Also talked audio books without naming names, and it was 5.1 million Brits - one of his highest ratings. It had an effet as well - my Sister-in-law (a Head Teacher) found and started following me, She has not found me on FF though :-) - Ian D. Nock

Interesting when Tom Cruise was asked if he does anything on the internet. I don't think the COS allows its members to use the internet, at least not unfiltered. - Gregg H.

Dave Winer

Just figured something out. People confuse passion with anger. When I get excited I speak loudly and fast. I'm not angry I'm happy! :-)

January 25, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

AJ Kohn, Lola Bean (Penguin), Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ and 7 other people liked this

That would be a feature of New Yorkers - Francine Hardaway

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Think so? Californians never have "Eureka!" moments? What do they do when that happens? Have some Chardonnay and go soak in the tub? :-) - Dave Winer

passion and opinion is often confused with pushy, arrogant, angry, mean, etc. I think that is simply because so many people lack passion. - Brian Roy

Easy mistake to make, really. One thing about the internet is that, unless you are doing a video where someone can see and hear your passion, what gets typed out often can be mistaken for anger by someone reading it. Depends on the reader's viewpoint, really. - Steven Perez

Steven -- exactly right. And people mistake their own emotional response for the intention of the author. - Dave Winer

I have this exact same problem. People confuse my passion for a subject as being angry at some aspect. Although I do sometimes express my passion as mock-anger. - Scot Mcphee

I do that to during debates and discussions, which for some reason pisses the other party off. They probably think I'm angry at them, but I try to keep emotion out of debates as much as possible. - Daniel Bruce

There is something deeper there Dave. When I get passionate it is usually because I discovered a new truth and now I want you to see it too. That is asking people to change and people hate change and hate the ones who are asking them to change. Doug Englebart told me he was kicked out of the research world because his ideas were too weird. Thing is he was right and everyone else was wrong. - Robert Scoble

Daniel - as if that were possible or even desirable... - Brian Roy

I think this is why when I blog about something in a rant I get people telling me that I shouldn't let it bother me so much. The only way I could stop getting responses like that is to stop blogging about the things I am passionate about. Damned if I do and dammed if I don't kind of thing. - MarkCarras

Learning to be completely dis-passionate is the same as learning to be useless - but that is just my opinion... - Brian Roy

+1 @Brian - Robert Miller

Rob Diana

Status Updates Are Not Conversation - http://regulargeek.com/2009...

January 25, 2009 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Erhan Erdoğan, Mona Nomura, Scot Mcphee and 9 other people liked this

Preachin' to the choir here on FF. - coldbrew

True, but the post wasn't written purely for the FF crowd :) - Rob Diana

Rob Diana

The total unadulterated idiocy of building software businesses on the shell of Web 2.0 - http://www.inquisitr.com/16372...

January 25, 2009 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

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Paul Buchheit

Long Exposure Photography: 15 Stunning Examples - http://digital-photography-school.com/long-ex...

January 23, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Ajay Thampi, Russellreno, Caleb Parker and 88 other people liked this

It's the Great Eye of Mordor! ... Or maybe just a lighthouse. Yeah... yeah... Sorry, yeah, it's just a lighthouse. - Akiva

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Hey! It's my lighthouse again! Pigeon Point. :-D - Lisa | #TeamMonique

A friend recently sent over some examples of "High Dynamic Range" photography, which are also stunning, but in a different way: http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Hilary

Love these photos! - Ronald S

I love the lighthouse photo. - Bob Gannon

Akiva, roflol Yeah, you're right. :) - Melanie Reed

It's beautiful. Lighthouses are one of my favorite subjects to look at! - Melanie Reed

OMG! 656 sec. of exposure ... how?! - Alihan ÇETİN

Robert Scoble

20 things about friendfeed http://m.kyte.tv/ch...

December 28, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Kisha, Keith - @tsudo, K.D. and 112 other people liked this

hor d'oeuvres? where? - Michael VanDervort

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I'm watching your video right now - sofarsoShawn ~presque...

Robert, I am unable to watch your video (never been) in kite.tv with GNU/Linux and Flash 10. Although I have no problems in any other video platform. - Ricardo Galli

It is the first service to bring all our content into one place - paul mooney

Watching your video. Definitely learning a lot. Much to take in. - Marty McPadden

This is a great tuturial Robert, I am learning about all kinds of features I never knew about. Too bad Friendfeed doesn't have a video/visual tutorial like this for all the newcomers (albeit more concise for them). - Brian

Yes - and screencasted, not video of screen. - Hal

Have they ever come up with a good way to sync my twitter follows as imaginary friends without having to add each individually? - Hal

Was it just blurry for me or is it blurry for everyone? I think I could have learned way more from it if I could see what you were was doing. Looked like you were doing some cool stuff. - MarkCarras

awesome job Robert - watching it right now. It's great you're not over the top in describing it's usefulness...rather a sensible overview of it's benefits. - Zee.

That's great info, Robert. Thank you. Lots of stuff I didn't know. - Drew

Thank you for taking the time to put this together. - Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)

Love it Robert, thanks, I learned a lot. - Ginger Kenney

Great vid. Really showed off some awesome capabilities. - Joe Brinkman

Chris: my computer is messed up. :-) - Robert Scoble

I love FF and have been using it for a few months (though not exclusively), but I still picked up a few powerful tips that I didn't know or understand before. Thanks, Robert! - Helen Hoefele

Robert did you make this video for Arrington? I hope so, that way he'll start participating more...same goes for Guy Kawasaki too. :) - Susan Beebe

Nah, just trying to explain the features. - Robert Scoble

This friendfeed thing confuses me to no end. Maybe I'm just dense, but I've never been able to figure out how to organize things here so that the cool stuff perks to the top, then there's keeping track of things I like or whatever. I hope your vid is damn good cuz it's downloading now over a dialup line. yup, they still haven't fixed my highspeed yet. :-) Edited to put a smiley after that last statement, hehe. - Eddy Cole

It's a really good introduction to both basic and advanced FriendFeed use. Perhaps more interestingly, helps explain how Robert manages his massive inbound data flow. - Michael Krigsman

Ross the Friendfeed intern did some tutorials a while back, but FF sure failed to keep up with creating new ones as the feature set (and interface) evolved. Ross's videos here: http://www.vimeo.com/rossmil... - Mitch

I think that if I knew that I could see all of my twitter activity from within friendfeed, then I would use it in leui of a twitter client - but I don't feel like taking the time to add imaginary friends. - Hal

What we really need is a "Friendfeed Tour" room which is added by default to ever single new account. It could be moderated by the FF crew and include links to a whole bunch of goodies for new friendfeeders. - Mitch

Next installment: 20 ways to being a bigger FriendFeed monster than Robert Scoble? =) - deepikaur

Comprehensive. Needs a screencast treatment instead of pointing vid cam at the screen. - Tom Landini

This should go on the ff homepage - Michael Fidler

2009 is the year I start really drinking the FF Koolaid. I started a week early, technically, but then the good resolutions are the ones worth getting ahead of right away. This video was helpful for understanding how to make the most of the service, Robert. I'll be sharing it with others, especially if I slip into the social media rabbit hole that this service can be for many users. As always, thank you for sharing your experience. - Alex Howard

I find that friendfeed has a lot of passive users. Their activity comes from the aggregation of other media, not from any attention on friendfeed itself. Robert is very active on FF and so gets a lot of immediate conversation going, but many have it set on auto-pilot. I find this is less the case with twitter. Perhaps it will change. - Marcel LeBrun

Robert, I love the down to earth presentation on this. Very approachable method of video, and informative. - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge

I've been waiting for this video. Good stuff. - Andrew

Thanks for this - its great to have a practical 'how to' guide. - Graham Hills

Nice! Didn't really get Friendfeed until now. It would be phenomenal if I could manage and write to everyone of my aggregations via friendfeed. Hate to have 3+ Backends for my Blogs etc - Sebastian

Robert, I've been using FriendFeed for a while now. Thanks! This was superb. - Pilgrim Five

"Hide" feature!? I have no "Hide" link under my entries - how did you get one of those?! I want one! I have "Comment", "Like" and "More". - Isha (Marysia)

Thanks for posting. I never knew that Friendfeed could be so useful. I didn't even know there was a like feature till you pointed it out. I just thought it was another one of those lifestreaming aggregators. - Thao Ly

Marysia: "Hide" is only available on entries if you are in the home screen. So click on "Home" and now you should see Hide. - Robert Scoble

"Hide" is available in any list at the top level. For instance, if I create a list called "Tech Bloggers" and add six people to it, "Hide" is visible if I click the Tech Bloggers list on the left side. If I open the reveal triangle and click on one individual's ID, then "Hide" is not available. - Will King

Thankfully this was a tutorial. I still expect Robert to use a computer nearly as fast as Commander Data. - Kevykev

Great video Robert. Really enjoyed checking out all the features on FriendFeed. You seem to have it set up really well. I wondered why you didn't use a screencast recording program so we could watch what you were doing on your screen a bit more easily. I don't want that to sound like a criticism though because I really appreciate the effort you went to, recording the vid. - Paul Richards

I'm bumping this post, because this video is so good. Just sent it to a friend who just signed up to help explain the experience along with the FFundercats Episode 25 podcast. These are great resources. http://www.kyte.tv/scoblei... - Eric - seven eleven

All Things Lean

Report: Toyota's First Layoffs Since 1950?? - http://www.leanblog.org/2009...

January 23, 2009 from Lean Blog - Comment - Like - Share

Scot Mcphee and Scott Sorheim liked this

Paul Buchheit

The genius behind the Google 20% time; It isn’t the time on Dion Almaer's Blog - http://almaer.com/blog...

January 22, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

siva s, Jérôme, Moishe Lettvin and 39 other people liked this

"20% time means that sparks of genius can happen. If you copy anything about it, ignore the “time” part, and go with the open culture part." - Paul Buchheit from Bookmarklet

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I wonder if people would understand it better if it were described as 120% time? - Adewale Oshineye

I've always wondered if the "20% time" was implemented at Google to keep the time spent on pet projects in check (i.e., without it, it may be 40%!), while still allowing creativity & innovation etc. - Chris Lamprecht

Great Post Paul, thoroughly enjoyed reading it. - anil madamala

Great post, if i remember correctly, 3M also used the "20% time" to create their biggest innovations years ago. so it doesn't only apply to software development. - Tal Muskal

Really looking forward to your take on 20% time, Paul. - Dion Almaer

Gore did that like over 20 years ago, and voilà goreTex was born..... - denise

@denise: and does Al Gore claim it is his invention? (like Internets are;) - Jemm

Allowing your people some slack - and enough space - so they can either learn something new now and then or try something new - is certainly something that works in the end for a company (although with online addictions it works less nowadays as slack often disappears in messaging). GoreTex I thought was a very deliberate invention for space and then medical uses, the only "blue sky" bit of it was seeing how it could be used for performance clothing, and I'm not sure that didnt come from outside the company - Iphigenie

Chris Charabaruk

I find myself returning follows on FriendFeed much more often than on Twitter. Here's why:

January 22, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Scot Mcphee and Rob Diana liked this

1. When I can see at a glance what you're up to on all your various services, I have a better idea of your value as someone to follow. - Chris Charabaruk

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2. I am wary of autofollowing on Twitter, because of horror stories of people who follow someone, get autofollowed in return, and then stop following. - Chris Charabaruk

3. FriendFeed is now my primary source of information and networking. Because of that, I'm more likely to build connections through FriendFeed than through Twitter. - Chris Charabaruk

4. While the 140 character limit on Twitter is refreshing, there are some things you just can't express in that small space. With FriendFeed, I can express those things, and so can you! - Chris Charabaruk

5. Conversations are easier on FriendFeed than on Twitter. You can add your two cents without feeling so much like an intruder, and without worries that it won't be seen by the people already in conversation. - Chris Charabaruk

Louis Gray

RSS Bankrupt? We’re in a new world - http://mikepk.com/2009...

January 21, 2009 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Alex Howard, Keith - @tsudo, Scot Mcphee and Nikhil Dandekar liked this

Yeah, I use the iGoogle Gadget version of the Google Reader. I can sit and scan the available posts really quite simply. I wish the iGoogle reader had two features. 1. "SHARE this entry" (not just Star it), and 2. after I scroll past an headline (even without clicking on it to read), MARK AS SEEN. - Scot Mcphee

Bill Romanos

Did You Know? on Vimeo - http://www.vimeo.com/2030361

January 17, 2009 from StumbleUpon - Comment - Like - Share

Scot Mcphee, Tyler (Chacha) and Racism Occupied liked this

This is a great great video...I am going to repost :) - Racism Occupied

just on the english language and the number of words : despite our vocabulary expanding at a rapid rate, a speaker of english will still use 80% of words that evolved from the words that the saxons brought with them in the 7th century. - Scot Mcphee

Robert Scoble

We are just about halfway through "Black January." tighten your seatbelts the ride will be turbulent for the next 15 days.

January 15, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Mihalcea Razvan, Robert Miller, Morton Fox and 21 other people liked this

"days"? Try months! - ·[▪_▪]·

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Where are the sick bags? And, when the light goes off can I have another drink? - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

I think will see many other Black Months :) - Live Crunch Blog

Well in the next 15 days the damage to our plane will be so severe it will take us a few years to fly again. Sigh. - Robert Scoble

Wait till you see the freaky febraury! - Praful Halakhandi

Watch out for dropping shoes. - Mike Doeff

o_O well just as long as we don't end up having to eat each other....I want to be alive, but not an extra *from* Alive... - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

Times are tough indeed - innovation and dedication is definitely going to be needed - Klaus

WorldofHiglet: you are welcome to come to Half Moon Bay and drink my whisky. - Robert Scoble

The next 2 1/2 months will give us a better picture as to how the next 2-3+ years will be IMHO. Retail, Auto, Commercial Real Estate, "Old" media, Credit Cards, Auto Loans, etc still haven't even surfaced yet. They're boiling, but not much has been said about them besides Autos and the retail sales. Not much bad news in the next 3 months, we could be at bottom. My guess is the bottom will fall out by April. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

I might take you up on that, Robert, but after this plane has landed safely. I think I saw Earnest Borgnine and that's never a good sign...! - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

Tim: I blogged when I was unemployed and I will blog all the way through this @god willing! - Robert Scoble

If I am able to obtain a full time job in the next 2-3 months, that means we will all be okay. If I don't, that means we're in for a rough ride... Just call me an economic groundhog. wooooo - Dean Clark

It's going take us years to reach bottom. It's gonna be bad and long folks. - Gregg H.

Greggish: not true. We will be at the bottom within days. The problem is it will feel like we are still going down for up to 10 months. - Robert Scoble

Well I actually agree with you there, Robert (don't faint). Many people will feel like that but there will be opportunities for those who can see the light at the end of the tunnel. - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

No Spidra! No need for that, really. You have to keep your nerve and it will be cherry blossoms and sunshine before you know it. - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

It's like the end of the 1953 War of the Worlds, and we're all huddling in that church waiting for the end or something. - Ciaoenrico

Isn't part of the going down the feeling of going down? But part of the problem is that this mess can't bottom within weeks. Until the banks can unload their inventory, they're gonna be hurting and with all the inventory out there, it'll take a year or more to work through that. Combine that with all the regulatory problems, credit issues and the coming massive, massive, massive drop off in consumer spending and we're talking about a deep depression coming. - ·[▪_▪]·

Despite the obvious difficulties, it's important to try and remain optimistic. I've been reading a lot of really negative articles in the UK recently, almost suggesting that the situation we are currently in is entirely hopeless. One article yesterday asked why even get a job. Funnily enough, that isn't the solution to economic downturn. - TheLovableRogue

@nicerobot completely agree with you on that. I hope I'm a little more optimistic about these things and say that by April we'll see how close we are to the bottom. Right now, the way the economy relies on debt. The more debt you and I have, the better off the economy is, which is why they want us to keep spending. All I keep on hearing from people is how they are paying off debts left and right and saving.....this WILL be ugly. Also, the Great Depression only really affected the US, now it's global. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

@Spidra Thanks :) I was edumacated to believe that the Great Depression really only happened in the US. So it did effect a lot of countries. But, what's different now is we owe countries money. A lot. What happens when China calls back their loans? It's going to be ugly, much uglier than the Great Depression. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

Scoble is a raging optimist for predicting only 15 days of turbulence. - Michael Markman

slayerboy is totally right; the smart ones are positioning themselves to make money (relatively) while the carnage happens to those who own tradition equities and mutuals - don't believe the market commentators, we are no where near the bottom and equities are not the best long term investment - Bob Sonin

Bob, i agree...however money isn't what will save anyone when this is all said and done. I honestly think actual natural resources will be what makes you rich or not. (land, gardens, food, clean water). Only the billionaires will be the ones where money matters. I could be wrong on that, but I do know for a fact we are not at the bottom. I always equated playing the stock market (even with a 401k) to gambling in a casino, now more than ever. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

The focus on arbitrary calendar milestones cracks me up. Like, "2008 was a bad year, aren't we glad *that's* over!" Same with "Black January"--it's of course a continuum and nobody knows where the turning points are, in fact, it's fractal with infinite turning points. I think 2008 was a good year, because Obama won and the Republican party tanked. Getting rid of that kind of idiocy can only be a good leading indicator. - Joe Knapp

Natural disasters are bad enough. Man made ones really suck. - Nicola Quinn

This is a good time to buy real estate if you can afford it. I was trying to buy a foreclosed condo for $28,500. I didn't get that one but there are a lot more for under $30k. - Mike Hussein Cohen

Mike, that kind of thinking is what got us in this mess. Real Estate is not investment. That's part of what created the bubble in real estate. A house is a place to live. Whether renting or owning, each consumer has to weigh costs vs benefits. Flipping houses inflates the real value of housing. Not to mention, the days of anyone getting a mortgage without much to show is over. I could have bought a house a few years ago and the bank wanted to give me a $200,000 mortgage.....on $10/hour job - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

Actually, real estate is an excellent *long-term* investment. One of the true finite resources accessible to everyone. What got us into this mess was people doing irresponsible things like buying depreciating assets (new cars, vacations, etc) with their magic equity without question. - Paul Reynolds

Paul, good point, long-term, yes. Flipping? No. And I agree that depreciating assets was part of the problem, it's really what is needed for the banking system a majority of the world uses, the system THRIVES on debt. Now that more people are saving and decreasing their debt, it's killing the system. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

@Paul - gold and other precious metals fall into that category, too - "finite resources accessible to everyone." but those characteristics do not (themselves) an excellent investment make, especially when a given asset class is almost hopelessly inflated. - Anthony Citrano

Jason's right. I've seen people already walk away from their houses for just that reason. Puts your credit in the crapper, though. So, only someone with their back against the wall would do that. - Robert Scoble

For my Twitter friends who haven't read this post, it is a great conversation re:the economy and different perspectives on what the future may hold. - Ben Hedrington

brace for another round of defaults in the first half of 2009. - MikeAmundsen

...where are all the contrarians? - Gregg

Not sure I have much to add to this as I agree with the general course of discussion. I bought my place in early 2006 for a below-market (bubble) price. As I intended to sit on it for a while and knew things were going to get sideways, I did not pay attention to the rising value. Recently I checked zillow.com to see what the trend has been since I purchased and found the predicted value is a parabola with a peak (of 2x price) at December 2007 with end-points of purchase and today. I intend to hold. - Robert Miller

I'm here, Gregg, but it's all been said... :) - Anthony Citrano

Got ya by ten! - MiniMage

The ONLY silver lining is that if you do have money to spend, you'll probably never see deals like this in retail again. The discounts will continue. - Charlie Anzman

Scott Beale

the pilot did an amazing job, doing an emergency landing after losing both engines, it sounds like all passengers were rescued

January 15, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Kol Tregaskes

Is Quantum Mechanics Controlling Your Thoughts? | Subatomic Particles | DISCOVER Magazine - http://discovermagazine.com/2009...

January 15, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

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"Graham Fleming sits down at an L-shaped lab bench, occupying a footprint about the size of two parking spaces. Alongside him, a couple of off-the-shelf lasers spit out pulses of light just millionths of a billionth of a second long. After snaking through a jagged path of mirrors and lenses, these minus cule flashes disappear into a smoky black box containing proteins from green sulfur bacteria, which ordinarily obtain their energy and nourishment from the sun. Inside the black box, optics manufactured to billionths-of-a-meter precision detect something extraordinary: Within the bacterial proteins, dancing electrons make seemingly impossible leaps and appear to inhabit multiple places at once." - Kol Tregaskes from Bookmarklet

Kol Tregaskes

Mars methane discovery hints at presence of life - Telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science...

January 15, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Phoenix, browneyes, Mystika and 2 other people liked this

"Nasa scientists have detected "plumes" of methane on Mars, possibly indicating organic activity on the Red Planet." - Kol Tregaskes from Bookmarklet

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