Sean McBride

"Hartigan doesn’t seem to grasp the fact that the mainstream media is always found wanting because they habitually lie about news events and spin stories to suit the demands of their corporate owners. This is the very reason why blogs and alternative media outlets have become so popular and have eaten into the mainstream media’s audience share, because people are sick of being treated like idiots, sick of being lied to, and are desperately in search of the truth." - Sean McBride

"Indeed, Hartigan’s boss Rupert Murdoch confessed to the fact that his media empire tried to shape public opinion to support the war in Iraq In other words, Murdoch’s many prominent news outlets wantonly put out propaganda supporting the manufactured case for invasion. Murdoch admitted to this while lamenting the corporate media’s “loss of power” to alternative media and Internet blogs,... more... - Sean McBride

It would be great fun to watch a debate on policy issues between Rupert Murdoch, John Hartigan, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity on the one hand, and Glenn Greenwald, Andrew Sullivan, Jeremy Scahill and Juan Cole on the other. - Sean McBride

Why maintream media outlets, and their owners, high officials and hired pundits, are in meltdown mode and are wildly lashing out: a single blogger, Andrew Sullivan, exerted much more influence among opinion elites on discussion about recent Iranian unrest than Fox News, The New York Times and The Washington Post combined. Their multi-billion dollar infrastructures are increasingly meaningless. They are losing power fast, and they are angry and desperate. Thus John Hartigan's intemperate comments. - Sean McBride

"In addition, while mainstream media routinely uses anonymous sources and little more than bluster and hot air to back up their stories, blogs provide links to almost every claim they make so readers can research the source evidence for themselves. This is the opposite from Hartigan’s claim that blogs make “radical sweeping statements without evidence.” Indeed, this phrase perfectly characterizes tactics employed by the mass media on a daily basis." - Sean McBride

Pot, kettle, etc. - John

I guess FN ought to stick to inviting sensible moderates like Michael "Please, Osama, attack the US!" Scheuer on. (ref http://www.newshounds.us/2009... ) - Andrew C

Or, in other news: water is wet *sigh* - Rene Wirtz

Har har. Who the fuck cares what this shithead thinks? Raise your hand? - Cole Jolley

*raises hand* Why? Because the people who share their social status will think this as well. It will bring a negative effect upon alternative media. - Michael Forian

I thought we all agreed to start typing it as Fox News (R) - Matthew DeVries

(R) for retarded, right? - alphaxion

sure, that too - Matthew DeVries

Oh nos! A negative "effect" upon alternative media. Is that like a death ray? Back-room deals to squelch the life force of alternative media cash flow from their vulture capitalist comrades back at the Bilderberg lounge! Shudder! Hint: it is alternative because they aren't participants. Sniff test: if they are, then it isn't alternative. - Cole Jolley

Don't laugh at this, ironic as it may seem. Small media is starting to get under their skirts, and the MSM is moving to discredit it as a commercial competitor. As the FUD campaign continues, they will enlist political allies. This is serious. They want to strangle the baby in its bed. - Chris Baskind

Why not apply the argument to all suspected criminals. Then we can close the courts and the Department of Justice and reduce the deficit. You can not do it because it is against International Law. - Justice of the Piece

Preventative war is never acceptable. (Note that it is a different concept from pre-emptive war.) - Andrew C

I think it would be more advisable to use assassination than a nuclear strike. That way it would be much harder to trace back to its source. - Lindsey Dragun/لندزي تنين

Ford made assassinations illegal in '76. - Robert Haas

You better make sure that they cannot do anything to harm innocent civilians in the time it takes you to do something. In the case of North Korea, any "acts of war" would have grave consequences for South Korea and for our troops stationed there. - Alex Scoble

Alex's point is a strong one. Didn't Von Clausewitz state that war is just an extension of politics? I would say that we are more in the right in this instance than we were in Iraq. I like Hawaii. Wet work is messy but we do have the assets and we obviously have no issue with regime change so why don't we just get it done. It doesn't have to be public or even acknowledged. - Mathew A. Koeneker

a nuke first strike will harm innocents regardless. How about we look at the situation with an even hand. Why do N. Korea feel compelled to go ahead with a show of force like this? Is it because we as the western nations keep threatening/bullying them? Would a hearts and minds campaign be much more suitable? You can win wars without guns, you just need to find the reasoning behind the situation. - alphaxion

And wher is China siding in all of this? They seem to be awfully quiet. - Mathew A. Koeneker

I don't think that a nuke first strike is necessarily what Sean is talking about...there are all kinds of means in "by all means necessary". - Alex Scoble

"are you justified in taking them out by any means available, including, possibly, a nuclear first strike?" I think he's saying should we consider anything, including a nuke strike. - alphaxion

as I said, we need to ask "why do they feel the launch is required?". If it's because they feel threatened by us, what can we do to alleviate this? - alphaxion

Right, but there's a whole lot of other means one can take. - Alex Scoble

aye, was just saying that I don't think a nuke strike can ever be on the table and was suggesting another line of thought. - alphaxion

And I'm not sure that they feel threatened by us. From an outsider's view, it looks more like they want something, whether it be respect, food aid, money, technological support, whatever and all these games are just a way for them to get us to give them whatever it is they want. - Alex Scoble

And I disagree that a nuclear strike can never be on the table, if they actually hit Hawaii, Japan or South Korea with a nuke, we will have no choice but to nuke them back. - Alex Scoble

"It is the avowed policy of our government to never strike first with nuclear weapons." -- President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove" ;-) - Karim

Absolutely not. What is an option is take out the crazy and self-destructive leader. And even though Ford made it illegal in 1976, surely assassinations and other types of interventions have occurred. - Rene Wirtz

Sean, consider that just a year ago (and for about the whole five years before that), the US could have been considered the world's first 'rogue superpower'. Launching illegal preventative wars, absolutely armed with nuclear capabilities, ... would any nation have been justified in 'taking them out by any means available'? Or is that option only for other nations? - Andrew C

War is costly, Andrew. You have to be able to afford it to do it, both in terms of absolute costs and losses in population. And Rene, unfortunately we have no idea who would replace Kim Jong Ill as the leader (and he might already have been replaced, albeit quietly) so assassination isn't an ideal thing. - Alex Scoble

Just like why we didn't assassinate Saddam Hussein during the first gulf war. If you can't control who the successor is, there's no reason to assassinate. - Alex Scoble

Trust me Alex, I'm sure the US has someone lined up, and if not the US, China will. Of course, this will never get broadcast, because what better way to keep the threat level at orange by sustaining a false sense of an enemy. (Or maybe I'm just paranoid :P) - Rene Wirtz

How would we have someone lined up? We have no intelligence in that country, we have no visibility in to the government there and we have no means of putting forth our own leader. We are quite unable to pierce their leadership curtain. - Alex Scoble

+1 Alex. don't know what HUMINT is there but seriously doubt that whatever *is* there would be able to come up with casus belli. also going to war based on satellite photos is so 2003. - Karim

We don't need to punish the entire country for the action of one or a handful of people. Smartbombs and Seal Teams people. #getitdone - Mathew A. Koeneker

If you use _ANY_ means, and fail, you risk leaving yourself open to justifying a strike from the force you are attempting to suppress. Nuclear First strike isn't an option, but civil disrest and undermining is possibly an option, It's a very difficult thing to consider.. - Myles W