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NPR: Top Rwandan Genocide Suspect Arrested In Uganda - More at http://bit.ly/j8QIr - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
NPR: Myanmar Court Upholds Suu Kyi Guilty Verdict - More at http://bit.ly/y76y6 - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
NPR: White House Not On Dalai Lama's D.C. Tour - More at http://bit.ly/rNKLA - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
Another use for your phone: 'augmented reality' http://bit.ly/M7NUZ - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
Another use for your phone: 'augmented reality' http://bit.ly/M7NUZ - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
Your family dog may be smarter than your toddler - http://bit.ly/JTGhq #cnn - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
SF artist exhibition opportunity: http://bit.ly/4mIf7j (RT @SfArtNews via @SFANART) - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
@simon_blint next is another sci-fi. Other side of the coin from Moon. About living in a busy future Berlin. Blade Runner vibe. - http://twitter.com/ManMade...
ABC News: India's Child Brides Inspired By Girl Who Defied Parents http://is.gd/1CbQK (RT @ReliefNews) - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
Raw Video: Berlin Debuts Snow Leopard Cub
http://bit.ly/nWMid - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
RT @GlobalArtNews: Oldest prehistoric art discovered: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2... - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
Revamped Metreon gains momentum http://bit.ly/zDYi Watch for an April 2010 grand reopening, featuring Tavern on the Green! - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
Madoff Loss Hits Art Aid for Young in Israel http://bit.ly/1abljr (RT @nytimes) - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
#followfriday @SimonReadBooks @bayareaevents @davos @eddieizzard @fakerobinhood @GlobalArtNews @greenoptions @MoMAteens - http://twitter.com/simon_b...
I see some bloggers discrediting others and putting their first and last names into the blog title, forever changing their SEO.
Meryn Stol, Allen Harkleroad, Alex Scoble and Daniel J. Pritchett liked this
How does your blog SEO change if the name is in the title? Its a good thing, no?
- Colin Charles
Colin, google "simon blint" http://www.google.com/search... or "david dellifield" http://www.google.com/search.... That's what J is worried about.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Thomas Hawk - Simon Blint SFMOMA Parody Song | mattb4rd.com - https://www.iterasi.net/public...
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Thomas Hawk / Simon Blint SFMOMA Parody: http://mattb4rd.com/eloi...
MiniMage TKDteacher of FF and Tyson Key liked this
Apple’s stock halted, news to come - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Will Higgins™, Micah Wittman, Nicholas James and 20 other people liked this
Jobs steps down for health reasons. [edited]
- Daniel Miessler
First I ever heard of Thomas Hawk having a day job! I just assumed he was a professional photographer.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
No, he didn't quit. He took a medical leave of absence until June
- Ken Sheppardson
Jobs is out till june on medical leave "My medical problems are more complicated than I had originally thought"
- Geoff Schultz
Here's the release: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits...
- Ken Sheppardson
Stock will resume at 5:00 EST and we'll see what happens.
- Andrew Leyden
This may actually prove to be a positive for the stock as it is on the table now. Calamity could have already been priced in, and now it may just be a disaster.
- Geoff Schultz
Guess not, shares are down 6-10% already in after hours trading.
- Geoff Schultz
excellent time for anyone who shorted apple stock - thats why its falling so fast.
- Roberto Bonini
And so there comes a time when a person becomes mere commodity. Well wishes and speedy recovery for Jobs.
- Moushumi Kabir
Saw Robert's follow-up post (which has hit Google Reader, but not FriendFeed, yet) and agree that Jobs' temporary departure doesn't change the long-term fundamentals of the business. If Apple were a 10 person company, it would.
- Ontario Emperor
Seems there was a big rush to short this. Premiums are around 10% so expect a bigger dip tomorrow.
- Steven Cains
Daniel: yeah, and Thomas Hawk isn't his real name, either. His boss asked him to keep his day job separate from the web. He manages hundreds of millions of people's money during the day. That's why he's quick on news like this.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Is Thomas Hawk really Warren Buffett? !
- Matthew DeVries
I had no idea, Robert. That mystery took all of thirty seconds to solve once you told me, heh. I guess it's good enough if most people don't know to look.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
That makes the whole "Simon Blint" fiasco take on a whole new appearance though - Hawk doesn't use a real name yet his big blog really hurt someone else's.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Day of intrigue - "What of the real Steve Jobs' health?" and "Who is Thomas Hawk?". Robert, I waiting for you to look into a camera as it rolls tape at which point you peel off your latex face mask.... It's Jonathan Winters! (but not aged since Mork and Mindy days)
- Micah Wittman
It's the end of Apple as we know it!
- Tyson Key
I never wish ill on anyone and I hope the best for Mr. Jobs. But Jim Collins talks about "superstar CEO" in his book "From Good to Great". Jobs easily falls into this category and it is seldom a good thing for the company when they leave. If Apple 'can' survive without Jobs, this would be the perfect time for a transition to be put in place and let him ride off.
- Alyx
It doesn't help that Apple and Steve are seemingly inextricably linked, at least in the eyes of the general populace. I hope something positive happens soon, and I'm betting on Apple to have enough projects in the works to see them through for a while, with or without him.
- Tyson Key
Simon Blint, Director of Visitor Relations at the SF MOMA, Yeah You Jerk, Photography is Not a Crime on Flickr - Photo Sharing! - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
A great story about the right of photographers to take pictures of what they see around them in public spaces. Pay special attention to the community-applied tags in the photograph on this page. Obviously Thomas Hawk has many friends who agree with his sentiments, though less "eloquently," shall we say? heehee!
- Sylvie Dale
Photography is Not a Crime - Blint of SFMOMA is an asshole! - http://thomashawk.com/2008...
Flickr DNA - http://bighugelabs.com/flickr...
Cheryl Jones, Jon Parise, Lyn and 14 other people liked this
Flickr DNA is a pretty cool way to look at someone's flickrstream from an overview standpoint. Here's mine: http://bighugelabs.com/flickr...
- Thomas Hawk
Flickr should give me this view natively. I love to see which of my photos have made it to Interesting or Explore. Cool little web app!
- Josh Bancroft
I've used this before to check out some of my stats. It's unfortunate that Simon Blint is staring back at us in your "Most viewed from the past 30 days" section, but I guess it's good to keep bringing notice to the story. What a tool. ;)
- Chris Luckhardt
...and since we're sharing: http://bighugelabs.com/flickr...
- Chris Luckhardt
... and http://bighugelabs.com/flickr...
- Sam Grover
... ok me too :) http://bighugelabs.com/flickr...
- Jason R. Hunter
Like the "ego surf" part at the bottom. :) Been a while since I checked it, kinda cool to see some of my photos being used by people.
- Jason R. Hunter
awesome sunsets Coreburn!
- Thomas Hawk
First time seeing this - very cool. (And Thomas - no surprise, your photos rock!)
- Kim Mahan
Thanks! My two other favorite toys/tools for Flickr Cooliris/PicLens (http://www.cooliris.com/) and Flickriver (http://www.flickriver.com/).
- Jason R. Hunter
I have just started using Flickr (despite joining over three years ago): http://bighugelabs.com/flickr...
- CJPhoto
Simon Blint, Director of Visitor Relations at the SF MOMA, Yeah You Jerk, Photography is Not a Crime - http://www.flickr.ch/2008...
Simon Blint, Director of Visitor Relations at the SF MOMA, Yeah You Jerk, Photography is Not a Crime originally uploaded by Thomas Hawk on 9 Aug ‘08, 2.30am CEST PST. If you think that photographers should not be subject to this kind of harassment digg this here. Simon Blint, Director of Visitor Relations at the SF MOMA [...]
Thomas Hawk Versus Rent-a-Cops - 10 Zen Monkeys - http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2008...
David HC Soul, Bryan Villarin, Nils Sandin and 38 other people liked this
I don't believe the previous incidents negate Thomas' poor treatment by SFMOMA, but interesting to get another take
- Duncan Riley
from Bookmarklet
largely accurately written with the exception of the altercation between Alex the security guard and I. No words were exchanged before he came out of the building with his middle finger blazing. His hand is even still on the door as he exited the building to come confront me. http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Thomas Hawk
who is "destiny" and why I can't I find out more about the author of this article that is linkedin here ? Those who are behind a pseudonym and without a face are always suspicious in my eyes. AND those who dont take the time to do research and blindly just post a link without doing a little bit of 'due diligence' certainly lose creditablity in my eyes. Sorry, let the fact be known. Its not just about traffic and eyeballs. The community expects much more , in these type of character convos !!
- Peter Dawson
You know, Blint sort of looks like John Malkovich
- Mattb4rd
<cont> I see the problem and its us- failing to keep equilibrium amongst ourselves
- Peter Dawson
The longer this story keeps rolling on without SF MOMA being involved in the conversation the worse it gets for them. Guess they should read my brother's book. You don't think that this sort of thing can have an impact? Ask Kryptonite how much of an impact a viral internet story can have on a business.
- Alex Scoble
Yeah, Peter... people with psuedonyms like "Thomas Hawk"... @Alex... I guess the people of San Francisco will just have to get their fix of large collections of modern art elsewhere. It's such a competitive field.
- Jason Carreira
@Sean, yeah, I hate people with Authority like Jill Greenberg. Good thing Thomas is here to protect us from artists whom he disagrees with or they might use their authority to force us to look at artwork.
- Jason Carreira
Tom: It's ok to take a picture of a building... or a lake, or even a sculpture in a museum... of course!! But guess what? It is poor form to take someone's picture without their consent... and then to bully them when they tell you to stop... wow. I'm not impressed. Don't make it sound like you're some innocent photographer who gets blindsided... you antagonize human beings with your lens the same way security does with their badges and I think it's a shame so many smart people support you for it.
- Matt Shaulis
I have mixed opinons on this. I want him to be able to take photographs of almost whatever he chooses, but it sounds like he's always looking for a fight. Its almost like this is his mission rather than the photography or maybe his photography is about making people uncomfortable with his photography. Either way, it feels too beligerent, but I used to be that beligerent too, so who am I to judge.
- Brad Nickel
I shoot every single day of my life. hundreds of photos every single day. Inevitably I end up in conflicts from time to time. For every conflict I've blogged about there are dozens of others that were handled amicably. The vast majority are. I have no interest in creating conflict, I find it stressful and upsetting actually. Every so often though one of the conflicts becomes especially egregious and those I've tended to blog.
- Thomas Hawk
If you want to read what a typical non-blogged conflict looks like you can read this article that Evan Ratcliff wrote on my photography for Wired Magazine. http://www.atavistic.org/evan... Evan witnessed one first hand while following me around shooting one day. Much less drama, nothing blogged, but typical of what I routinely run into while out and about shooting.
- Thomas Hawk
@Brad That's my problem with "Thomas"... I want everyone to be able to take photographs too, but picking fights and being belligerent like this does more to harm the cause of photography than to help it.
- Jason Carreira
@Thomas - Fair enough and thanks for replying. I have to say, that being out here on the periphery just kind of taking in pieces of the story in FriendFeed and blog snippet world, you come across as a bit angry in general. I think the behavior towards you has been ridiculous as well, but my impression definitely was a bit different than the explaination you just gave. Thanks for providing it, it helps. I suspect that maybe you have so much hassle, that you might give the impression you are ready for a fight
- Brad Nickel
@Brad, I've been on Flickr for a long time and seen TH do this several times over different issues. I also know a lot of photographers who shoot street photography and somehow they aren't getting thrown out of places, getting people fired, etc. That's where I'm coming from, because that's specific to "Thomas", even though he likes to play it up as a war against photography.
- Jason Carreira
I don't pick fights Jason, I hold my ground when I'm in the right. And in the most extreme cases I blog it. I'm never the one confronting them. It always starts with them telling me I can't photograph something that I feel that I can. How it escalates from there is largely up to them. As said before the vast majority never escalate and are worked out without any scene or drama whatsoever.
- Thomas Hawk
Amazing how it just happens with you. Other street photographers aren't getting escorted out by security guards.
- Jason Carreira
@Jason, Sure seemed that way to me too, but hopefully this will be a lesson for everyone involved to step back when things heat up, unless they like what came out of it.
- Brad Nickel
so a man with a history of self importance and employee harassment who routinely violates museum rules now wants us to all rally around him and become part of his new lynch mob? To hell with that. I said it before - we have NO idea what actually happened and no reason to believe Thomas was not a beligerant jerk when approached.
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
However when I'm physically assaulted, flipped the bird, called a public pervert in a crowded atrium and without being given a chance to show my innocence when I have proof, etc. I don't just stand there and take it. They drew first blood. I blog those most egregious cases. You want to see an example of a positive interaction? Check out this link here: http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Thomas Hawk
Thomas - itsimply doesn't matter even a little tiny bit. If someone asks you (or even TELLS you) to not take their picture you need to respect that.
- Matt Shaulis
Anyone who deal in security deals with this stuff. It used to be "I'll write a letter to the newspaper" then became "I'll sue you!" now it's "I'll blog about you" which is the same thing as yelling "I'll tell Scoble" ( kidding ).. Everyone who is ever tossed out of someplace starts yelling about being assaulted. The guy has a history of picking fights and being belligerent... why should we assume he wasn't doing that here?
- Soulhuntre
Jason: I'd suggest you read up on WinExtra for Steven's run down on how Thomas was "late to the party" here - folks getting tossed out for all sorts of innocent documentations of life that end up on the internet is pretty commonplace. I don't get why some people are so "offended" by this incident. Not every issue needs a devil's advocate.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Last comment - it takes more than a blog and a digital camera to make someone a "hero", ya know? This guy wasn't risking his life for free speech or fighting "the man".
- Soulhuntre
Matt, the argument here is law vs. common courtesy. The law says you have no reasonable expectation of privacy on the street. Common courtesy dictates that if someone asks you to stop doing something that makes them uncomfortable, you do so.
- Cyndy
@Thomas the description I read from a non-involved employee was that you were asked many times (as many as 10 times) to stop taking pictures. The employees do not have an option to leave to escape your camera lens, so what were they supposed to do? Of course Blint wasn't going to look at your pictures. At the point they'd asked you to stop more than once and you'd continued, you were being kicked out for your behavior, not your pictures.
- Jason Carreira
@Thomas - If the path so far to reaching 1M photos is any indication of what future conflict will escalate to then retaining counsel is probably in order... and a healthy insurance policy on your photo gear. Most of the gonzo videos of photographers in police states do not end well for the gear. Physical assault of a person over a photo seems to be relegated to paparazzi -- but that's something to keep in mind if a variety of less civil people creep into your works even if you are 100% "in the right".
- Jay Cuthrell
@Mark, I'd suggest you do some research on "Thomas"'s past before you jump to his defense. Why do the other photographers I know who do a LOT of street photography not get kicked out of places repeatedly? Oh, yeah, it's because they're courteous and they aren't looking to cause an incident.
- Jason Carreira
Cyncy.... you are incorrect. The law in over 1/2 the states in the US explicity PROTECTS my right to expectation of privacy and publicity... even (and especially) in public. Posting my picture on the web without my permission violates my rights of publicity. SO it's both law and courtesy. (and in some cases personal safety... one day someone is going to beat his ass.)
- Matt Shaulis
Soulhuntre, I don't claim to be a hero. I'm just doing my thing -- doing what I do. 99% of the time this is without altercation, but it happens. And Mark's right it happens *all the time* and not just to me. And for every other incident that's blogged about by Carlos Miller or Jeremy Brooks or Andy Carvin or hundreds of others that have written about it much of it goes unreported or photographers simply blindly obey an authority figure and walk the other way.
- Thomas Hawk
I could fill this thread with links to at least 100 other examples of it happening to other people not named Thomas Hawk.
- Thomas Hawk
Individual incidents != pattern of behavior
- Jason Carreira
How many is this for you now "Thomas"? 4? 5? Do we count Jill Greenberg? Do we count your rants about censorship on Flickr?
- Jason Carreira
Thomas Hawk: So just because you are not alone in your harassment of others makes it ok? 99% of the time bullies in school get the nerds lunch money, does that make it ok?
- Matt Shaulis
@Thomas, I know you think you're doing a good thing... If I say "Thanks for protecting the rights of photographers. You've done your job, leave it to someone else now", will you stop harassing people on our behalf? kthxbai
- Jason Carreira
Jason I'm allowed to blog about anything I want. Jill Greenberg and censorship on Flickr have nothing to do with my photography nor was I the only person expressing strong opinions in either case. Hell, the BBC covered the Flickr censorship story as did dozens of other publications. Same with Greenberg. Are you suggesting that because I can be opinionated that I shouldn't be allowed to blog about problems I run into with abusive security guards?
- Thomas Hawk
So Thomas, are you contending that he did not talk to you, nor did you snap his photo until after he came out of the rear of the building got in an argument and he flipped you off? You didn't even point the camera in his general direction until he came flying out the building middle finger a'blazin?
- Adam Weiss
Matt, actually the law does not. In every state in the U.S. the rule is simple, if you are in public then there is no expectation of privacy. When Photographer Philip-Lorca diCorcia used a *hidden* camera to take a photo of Hasidic Erno Nussenzweig it went all the way to the NY Supreme Court but the judgment was clear. Anyone can be photographed in public. http://www.nyc24.org/2006...
- Thomas Hawk
Geeze, this is still going? Why? The Museum made a comment, they said they aren't saying anymore. Thomas posted what he felt and everyone else got in their 0.02 as well. Hopefully, people learned something from both parties involved on how not to handle a situation...how not to handle a situation with a patron in public and not to write about your experience when you're still angry. It's over now.
- Candace
and for what it's worth 99% of the time someone asks me not to photograph them I don't. And I've deleted dozens of photos after the fact that people have asked me to on Flickr simply because they asked -- I have no problem with that. I have no problem respecting people's desire not to be photographed. But once they are a prick, like I said, they drew first blood.
- Thomas Hawk
And also for what it's worth in all this I do regret using Simon Blint's name in my post. If I had it to do over again I wouldn't have done that. I was angry and mad and I could have blogged about it more responsibly.
- Thomas Hawk
Adam that is *exactly* what I'm saying. I was shooting the exterior of the building and before any words were exchanged he came out of the building flipping me off *immediately*. Look at his hand, he's coming out the door. How could we have a conversation when he was inside and I was outside. We couldn't and we didn't. He saw me shooting the building, he came out flipping me off and the conflict emerged from there.
- Thomas Hawk
@TH "because I can be opinionated that I shouldn't be allowed to blog " - yes thats what the wolves r saying.. which part is thick in the skull ..right or left ? The more you interact, the less you will get out of it. IMO, drop the convo, move on. There are too many opinion's that will be rendered. You have won a battle on this round, there is very little that you can still contribute within this incident. The war between right vs wrong still looms . conserve your energy for the next round, wherever !!
- Peter Dawson
The photostream shows another photo from a few minutes earlier with him flipping your camera off from inside the building. Are you honestly contending that he was flipping you off, rather than responding to having a camera be pointed at him?
- Adam Weiss
Thomas: that is a New York case... not a US Supreme Court case... so in NY the rule is clear... i said over 1/2 the states... not ALL of the states. Besides the fact is that ruling is unethical and just waiting to be overturned by the US Supreme Court, which will make it officially illegal in all 50 states... he lost his appeal only because he did not file his initial complaint in a timely enough fashion... i would be very careful if you are planning on using it in your legal defense when you are sued. ;)
- Matt Shaulis
It's pretty simple folks. If you don't like what Thomas has to say, then don't read it. No one is forcing anyone to read his blog, nor is anyone forcing you to follow him on any social network. I think many people just like conflict.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Jeff... i think people just like to stand on the side of justice when they feel a fellow citizen has been violated... people are all over the web calling Tom a hero and a freedom fighter... for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction... right?
- Matt Shaulis
@jeff: Some people may like conflict. Others may just get really pissed off when they see their friends lose their jobs due to his actions.
- Adam Weiss
Adam, that is what I'm saying. Look at the photo from earlier. http://www.flickr.com/photos... What am I shooting there. I'm shooting a pair of revolving doors that I've arranged in symmetry -- again, from the outside of the building. What is he doing? He's getting in my photo and flipping me off. He didn't need to be standing right there. He didn't show up in my photo until after I'd started shooting it. I can show you versions of that shot without him in it.
- Thomas Hawk
and then after flipping me off from inside the building, he comes out and flips me off as he's coming out of the building to tell me I can't take photos of the building. He may not have liked me taking photos of the building. He may have thought I was taking photos of him in the building, whatever. I'm allowed to take photos of the exterior of a building. It was his confrontational attitude as evidenced by the finger that brought on the blog post in that case.
- Thomas Hawk
I used to work in that building. They station guards there in the afternoon when the exit doors get heavy traffic.
- Adam Weiss
Matt, I'm not a lawyer but I stand by my contention that you can shoot anyone you like in public and I'll happily take my chances in court with anyone who wishes to contest it. Here is an opinion from an actual lawyer though. http://www.krages.com/ThePhot...
- Thomas Hawk
You were traumatized by a security guard as a kid or something... clearly... ;) just kiddin'... hehehe.
- Matt Shaulis
And no, you're not allowed to take photos from there. That park is private property. I find it incredible to this day that you still pretend to be ignorant to that fact. Yes, it's poorly marked. But so are all the other psuedo-public parks attached to office buildings in the financial district. I knew about them when I used to take pictures of buildings, and this was even in the pre-9/11 era when getting hassled was rare.
- Adam Weiss
Some people just go looking for conflict. They love complaining to supervisors, they live for their ability to write letters to editors and "fight the good fight". Outrage and playing the victim gives them the moral authority to act any way they wish. Now, I don't know TH from Adam and he might be mister temperance. but that's the point, I don't know and he could easily be a jerk. Frankly "social networking" needs to be more than an instant outrage machine if it is ever going to really effect change.
- Soulhuntre
Adam, I'm not sure what to say to you. I could upload a photo of the doors without Alex in it but I still don't think that this would change your opinion. But for argument's sake, let's just say he was stationed there. I'm just saying if it were me and some guy outside was shooting the exterior of the building and I didn't want to be in the shot, I'd turn around and have my back to him, not flip him off for the camera and then come outside and hassle him.
- Thomas Hawk
@soulhuntre: I look at it this way: One day a highly sophisticated alien race will visit and suck down and review the whole Internet in about ten minutes. During the first five, they'll decide we're actually alright. During the second five, they'll have scrolled down to the comments, found the blogs and read the mailing lists. During the third five... well there wouldn't be a third five, for us anyway...
- Adam Weiss
Opinons from lawyers, cool... here is another: http://www.photosecrets.com/tips... it is my understanding that taking the photo is not a problem, publishing it is. (even though, forget the law, it's morally wrong to shoot first and ask questions later... am i right?)
- Matt Shaulis
Adam, it doesn't matter that it's private property. It's *public space* This issue was more recently addressed by Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton when bloggers like Andy Carvin were being kicked out of DC's Union Station, also private property, but *public space*. When a property owner designates an area as *public space* they lose their ability to restrict general public activity...
more...
- Thomas Hawk
Well Thomas, you're a photographer! Of course you're not going to mind so much. Don't you think having that same expectation of others is unreasonable? I wish I was able to construct an abstract analogy that would help you to understand what it would be like to have someone show up at your workplace and engage in an activity that makes you feel uncomfortable.
- Adam Weiss
It is become more and more likely, I think, that TH is a far from innocent participant in this altercation.
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
Matt, you are certainly entitled to your opinion that "it's morally wrong to shoot first and ask questions later." But as you note, it's not illegal and this "moral" certainly contradicts many of the finest photographers who have ever lived. Henri Cartier-Bresson, considered by many as the finest photographer who ever lived (and who's photos hang in the SF MOMA) shot thousands of people without ever asking their permission. A whole canon of street photography is based on this.
- Thomas Hawk
Thomas... never heard of him. Considered by me to be a prick, it sounds like.
- Matt Shaulis
And I'm not even going to get into Bruce Gilden, who shoots for Magnum, generally regarded as the most highly regarded photography agency in the world (also founded by Cartier-Bresson). http://thomashawk.com/2008... Your morals may say that you ought not shoot someone without permission, but mine do not, nor does the established photographic community recognize your "morality."
- Thomas Hawk
Matt, you are mistaken. While you are not allowed to publish someone's likeness *commercially* (for instance I can't take a photo of you and then publish it next to an ad that says Matt endorses Crest toothpase or sell it for stock photography without a model release), both the arts and journalism have been given editorial exemption, hence Philip-Lorca diCorcia's ability to sell a print of his photo for thousands of dollars without his subjects permission or desire.
- Thomas Hawk
that's it guys. I'm out. I told myself that I wasn't even going to get into any of this if it had to do with Simon Blint anymore. I turned down an interview request for ABC TV, etc. over it. I'm done with it. I probably shouldn't have even chimed in here tonight. But I'm now going to put down the internet and go spend time with my wife. This is all from me on the Simon Blint case. As far as I'm concerned it's done. On to other things.
- Thomas Hawk
I am still not sure if I like this or not but it does raise some points that have gotten quite a few to speak their opinion on it. I have been on both sides of the lens and just move my face out of the frame if I don't wish to be photographed. Yes, I was a doorman for a while at Tipitina's and the now defunct Muddy Waters. I am glad that Thomas' maturity won out over his ego and am pleased that he wishes that he didn't call someone out by name when he himself operates under a pseudonym.
- Mathew A. Koeneker
Yes, I know that is for work reasons. I forgot the length of comment restrictions.
- Mathew A. Koeneker
wow... i wonder how the established photographic community would feel about how you've represented them here this evening.
- Matt Shaulis
I just love the idea of someone screaming "Don't move or I'll blog you". It ranks up there with all the "My brothers a lawyer" cops get all the time :) And no, I'm not saying this incident happened exactly like that... but it sure seems to be a possibility.
- Soulhuntre
@Thomas, thanks for chiming in! I think your input and links were valuable to those who are interested in the topic. It's appalling how miss informed the general public is with respcet to the freedoms and laws regarding public photography. I think we have seen discussed here tonight at least the top 5 or so misconceptions most people have about public photography. (Hey I smell a topic for a future blog post.)
- Jeff P. Henderson
@Matt, here is what John Harrington, a professional photographer and photo business expert had to say about the incident. http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008...
- Jeff P. Henderson
@Matt, here's another http://www.photoattorney.com/2008...
- Jeff P. Henderson
Thank you Thomas for sharing your opinion tonight.
- Michael
@Jason If you are shooting on the street, it is just a matter of time before somebody sees you and thinks that they can tell you to stop. People confuse "I don't want you to do that" with "You can't do that". In the USA, in public, you can pretty much take a picture of whatever you can see. That's the way it is. I repsect Thomas for being willing to subject himself to ridicule by people that don't understand that.
- Jeremy Brooks
@Jeff - Harrington lost my respect at this line..."decides that he is going to call in the museum's private Gestapo". The second link once again simply assumes TH's account is complete and accurate and piles on with the "hero" thing.
- Soulhuntre
What I love about this conversation is watching people complain about lynch mobs while doing their best impression of one. It's like ironic street theater with lots of sarcastic quotation marks.
- Roger Benningfield
@Thomas, I think it's pretty cool of you to link to that article on your blog, because it has BALANCE, which I often find lacking on the blogosphere.
- Owen Byrne
He had no right to throw Hawk out without looking at his photos at the very least. I hope that guys life has been hell since this all happened.
- Mathew™ one of a kind
I'm disappointed the point that TH has allowed the personal information of Mr. Blint to be released to the mob while hiding behind a false name seems to have been lost on most people commenting on this story. Either TH does not require his approval for each comment posted on his site or he approves each and every comment that is posted. Either way it is irresponsible for him to allow...
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- Michael Biven
@MichaelBiven- I see some TLC from Lane Hartwell has you feeling better.
- Mrsth
I personally see the behavior -- no matter what the actual circumstances were -- being counter-productive for photography rights. There are surely many museums (and other orgs) contemplating opening up their no photography policies who will look at this kind of thing and say, you know what, it's easier to not allow photography at all. The policy is obvious, easy to understand, and easy to enforce.
- HelloThere
Another aspect of this is no matter how much of a jerk Blint might have been, no one deserves to have an internet mob sicked on them to the point they can't use their phone and are literally concerned about their personal safety and having their home accosted. I wonder how that might feel for Andrew Peterson, and his wife and kids, if that kind of thing were happening to him. EVEN IF Blint had it coming.
- HelloThere
We've all seen this kind of power-trip behavior from security guards before, and it sucks to be the recipient of it. But Andrew Peterson also wields quite a bit of power/influence himself, which is proven by his threat to blog about the incident. It seems to me that he's suffering from the same power-trippiness that pisses him off so much. And yes, I know there is a difference when the other person started it, but there's also a way to be a bigger man than that, and to wield power proportionately.
- HelloThere
Another really interesting aspect of this is the real possibility of affecting SFMOMA revenue. Now some might argue that they deserved it, but as someone who appreciates art and understands what a struggle it can be for artists and art institutions today, I would think that the possibility of inflicting damage on the institution isn't something a fellow artist would condone. I feel this is true REGARDLESS of what actually happened that day.
- HelloThere
Dang. I think I just saw someone get "outed" on FF.
- Mathew A. Koeneker
SFMOMA Responds to the August 8 Incident involving Thomas Hawk - http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r...
Anthony K. Valley ©, Mike Fruchter, Kol Tregaskes and 5 other people liked this
Asinine response. In my opinion the issue isn't that TH got kicked out (if he was being a jerk, boot away), but that Simon Blint apparently wasn't willing to review the pictures before kicking him out.
- David Thomas
By waiting so long SFMoma hasn't settled the issue so much as reignited it.
- Kevin D. White
Their response in horrible. They merely skirted the issue and are apparently more interested in "protecting" their own employees rather than admitting that some mistakes may have occurred. SFMOMA just does not get it.
- Scott Jarkoff
Candace's post is great - on the missteps of SF Moma http://candaceholly.com/2008...
- anna sauce
See my comments on Candace's post. While I generally support Hawk, he made some missteps also (look at Candace's item 2 and especially item 3).
- Ontario Emperor
SFMOMA Responds to August 8 Incident - http://www.sfmoma.org/press...
Kol Tregaskes, Dobromir Hadzhiev, Mark and 54 other people liked this
"Last Friday an incident occurred in our museum in which a visitor was asked to leave the building. We stand firmly behind the actions of our director of visitor services, who acted appropriately to ensure the safety of the museum’s admissions staff. He took measures to protect another staff member who according to witnesses on our staff and among the general public was being photographed in an inappropriate and harassing manner. SFMOMA welcomes over 600,000 visitors annually; disputes and disagreements between our guests and our staff very rarely occur."
- Justin Korn
from Bookmarklet
Wow...A complete dismissal of Thomas' Hawk's account. Uber lame and disappointing. Guess they didn't bother to look at the pics either.
- Alex Scoble
what's the context?
- Paul Whitaker
yeah their official response is disappointing.
- Alan Le
so much for "the customer is always right" not only that, they painted the customer a pervert to boot. They truly do not know what the repercussions of something like this can amount to. Oh yeah, I forgot, we're just a bunch of computer nerds.
- Carlos Ayala
Thomas Hawk also gave more details: http://thomashawk.com/2008...
- Robert Scoble
What a crazy statement...as someone who is an art blogger and someone who has been harassed at museums for taking photos I wouldn't be surprised if it was SFMOMA's stupidity that caused the incident....what does "being photographed in an inappropriate and harassing manner" mean anyway?
- Hrag
That is steaming load of PR-spin.
- Andy Roth
fire, meet gasoline
- Josh Haley
Wow -- they're prepared to defend a libel suit.
- Chris Baskind
This was very dismissive.
- Michael
Regardless of whether we agree or disagree with their statement, the point is, they issued a statement.
- Mona Nomura
I would like to think of myself as having no affiliations either way. I don't know jack about Thomas except that he is a photographer. I have never heard of this museum until this incident. That being the case, this response ****ing sucks. It's not even a response, it's almost libelous. WOW
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
At least they issued a statement. The statement itself was completely dismissing any concerns brought up about how the situation was handled. It was almost accusatory and that doesn't sit very well.
- Candace
Well, this is going to be an unpopular opinion - but I think the handling of this incident was just unfortunate - not evil. Since I know nothing of Thomas or how he presents himself I have no idea how he handled the incident at the time but let's be honest the whole "I'm gonna blog about this!" thing must be getting old for just about everyone who deals with the public. I can understand it not carrying any real power.
- Soulhuntre
I'm glad they acknowledged the incident, but the way they did it makes me more disappointed in them, not angry. Either way, I don't think that the situation was handled very well from the SF MOMA.
- Michael
At least they responded. I don't have a problem with the response. They're in the business of art not pacifying cranky bloggers who take every opportunity to get in the face of people with their camera. I'm amazed at how blindly people have piled onto this story. He was asked to stop and then kept photographing. He inflamed the situation. The fact he got kicked out writely or wrongly is as much his fault as Blints. Not a surprise this is hardly a concern of SF Moma's
- Jim Goldstein
That isn't even a good attempt at a steaming pile of PR spin. I wanted to see if there was going to be a reasonable representation on the other side but instead they pull out the generic "protecting you from scary people with possible dslr weapons. "
- Geoff Schultz
In this day and age where sexual harassment lawsuits are a dime a dozen frankly the museum stands to lose much more if a female employee even FEELS uncomfortable than if they toss out a visitor. This is definitely a rock / hard place issue. We have no idea if the employees received other complaints - we simply don't know. I can also understand him not looking at the images... this sort of thing is often not a judgment call but one of policy. Does it suck? yes. Was it evil? No.
- Soulhuntre
I AM amused by the faux concern in Hawk's blog entry about how sorry he is for how much damage this will do to Blint "for years to come". The answer? It will cause him ZERO damage in any way that matters. Future employers will see him as someone who followed policy in the face of what amounts to a personal threat (albeit a minor and non violent one - "I'll blog you!") and they know that when you interface with the public some folks will be upset.
- Soulhuntre
What a load of crap. As usual the bullies go unpunished.
- DAVE ID
A dismissive response would have worked just fine for me had they left out the part about public safety and whatnot.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
I'm sorry, but there's nothing from the other side that contradicts what Thomas wrote about the incident. It's obvious from his pictures that he wasn't taking photos in a sexually harassing way. And the manager at the museum should have done a better job of dealing with the situation instead of giving someone with a public voice grist for their mill. And yes, when someone says "I'm going to blog about this", in this day and age you better take it seriously...
- Alex Scoble
Unless you like reading about how you were a jerkweed all over the web.
- Alex Scoble
@Alex Scoble Let me know how it goes the next time someone asks you to stop what you're doing and you keep doing it in there face. Blint is charged with security and safety it is not in his job description to be up on what types of lenses are for what type of photography. If he received a complaint he did his job in following up on it. With a more civil approach perhaps he then might have looked at Andrew/Thomas' photos. That option went out the window with AP/TH's mode of addressing the issue.
- Jim Goldstein
My reply to SF MOMA (I've sent them several unreplied-to emails over the last few days): "I'm happy to see that the museum has responded to the incident but it's extremely disappointing that you have completely ignored the central dispute: Whether the photographer was actually acting in the manner that Mr. Blint accused him of. The fact remains that Mr. Hawk wasn't taking revealing or...
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- Kevin Fox
This is what they have said publicly. Their only other choice probably was to apologize to Thomas/Andrew and rebuke, demote or fire the offender. So they are facing potential lawsuits on all sides and chose the cowardly least risk route. Bets that Mr. Blint will still be on the staff in his position a year from now?
- Brian Sullivan
Really good to know he did not act on his own & his livelihood is secure. Clearly an over-reaction of power by a few in a simple misunderstanding.
- Mrsth
@Mona & Josh- Right on....
- Mrsth
[My note to SFMOMA management] It is clear that Simon Blint acted irresponsibly and with inflated self-importance in ejecting Thomas Hawk from the SFMOMA. His failure to even discuss the matter at the time and his insistence upon refusing to examine the evidence before leveling extreme charges against Mr. Hawk is disgusting and reprehensible. That the SFMOMA issued a press release that...
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- Christopher Sacca
not quite the response i was expecting. i thought it was a general rule for such establishments to be on the customers side... or rather ... visitors side
- Chris Farrugia
... visitors from exploring your museum. I hope that someday you might understand that the sheer existence of your once-great institution is a privilege and a result of the will of the community. Stop taking that for granted.
- Christopher Sacca
... but now we have seen the photos in question, realize that their was nothing inappropriate occurring and would like to apologize for the misunderstanding?
- Johnny Worthington
Ironically, if SF MOMA is trying to shield themselves against a lawsuit, the phrase they use, "He took measures to protect another staff member who according to witnesses on our staff and among the general public was being photographed in an inappropriate and harassing manner" may do more to open the museum to slander than anything they've done yet. If the museum staff refused, when...
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- Kevin Fox
"This was not an issue relating to the museum’s official photography policy." - REALLY ?? then why did they change the official photography policy statement on their web pages BEFORE releasing this statement ?? http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Peter Dawson
talk about a brush off. Lame response, and if they refused to look at the photos, there was no fair justice. Sack the guy and apologize SFMOMA
- Duncan Riley
Jim, actually it is in his job description to know what the heck he's talking about when he makes an accusation. To not be practical and to have some sort of people skills. He obviously failed in all of these. And I don't know why you lump Andrew P into this issue or why you think that the option of looking at the photos was thrown out by Thomas Hawk's behavior. Clearly, as stated by Thomas Hawk, Blint never gave the option any thought whatsoever. This is a major failure of public relations for the museum.
- Alex Scoble
Great to see the SF MOMA standing behind their staff. Note that they didn't use any names to identify those involved with the incident. That's how you do it, people.
- lane hartwell
@Kevin Fox - unless of course such testimony DOES exist and the incident as we have been presented from only one side, by a person the vast majority of readers know nothing of personally, including myself, is not as it would seem. In short, it is entirely possible that there was more than one person acting with over-inflated importance and contributing to the issue. In my experience people who threaten "I'll blog! You'll be sorry!" also seem a bit full of themselves. I doubt this is as clear cut as it seems
- Soulhuntre
"14mm lens simply cannot produce a "down blouse" shot with any level of detail whatsoever" -and if this is a fact, then to the best of my knowledge it goes against the grain of their statement " was being photographed in an inappropriate and harassing manner".. Sue Sue Sue is what I yell !! Remember TH also has a witness ..who was nearly thrown out !
- Peter Dawson
Hmm...wonder if Eleanor Holmes Norton is interested in this issue. It's not in her district, but she's interested in the general idea of photography rights.
- Ontario Emperor
Kevin -- Even if there was normally some potential for lawsuit the museum knows that Thomas/Andrew is extremely unlikely to pursue. I am pretty sure he wishes the whole affair had not happened and that his reaction was less incendiary.
- Brian Sullivan
Let's be honest - the actual fallout from all this FF fury over this will be zero. The SFMOMA visitor rates won't drop even a little and no ones life was ruined or career destroyed. Heck, having some blogger annoyed at you these days is getting downright common :) Again, I am sure this could have been handled better, but there is almost certainly more to this story than we have seen.
- Soulhuntre
"This was not an issue relating to the museum’s official photography policy. In fact, SFMOMA recently made a policy change to allow photographers to take pictures of the permanent collection, the architecture of the building, and the museum’s public spaces." Is it me or do they contradict themselves in the space of a paragraph?
- Roberto Bonini
Soulhuntre... I guess it is ok to leave an accusation of inappropriate behaviour standing
- Johnny Worthington
OK, here is the simple test... Can I now stand on that exact same spot, with the exact same lens and take the exact same shot without being thown out... The answer to that is the crux of this whole issue.
- Johnny Worthington
And the initial blog post was NOT an unsupported accusation of bias, policy breaking and personal animosity? At least SF MOMA had the restraint to not try and splatter individual names across the web. Lets be honest, they have taken the high road here. They got complaints, they acted according to policy and they only mentioned it publicly when pushed hard by others and did not name names. There is no slander or libel here.
- Soulhuntre
Here is my opinion: http://blog.justinkorn.com/index...
- Justin Korn
But what would that test prove? If the answer is that I'd get kicked out, then does that justify Thomas's ouster? If I can do it and *not* get kicked out, then doesn't that mean that the museum, while learning its lesson, behaved inappropriately?
- Kevin Fox
Also, to answer John's "TEST," - http://www.flickr.com/search...
- Justin Korn
why can't i get this post off the top of my alert thingy alert list? annoying...
- Nathan
from Alert Thingy
Justin, Thanks. Now how about some from the second floor of the Atrium, on a DSLR with a 'High Powered Zoom Lens' and taken after this issued occured :P
- Johnny Worthington
@John - then you would have to recreate any other factors, then behave as Thomas behaved (we don't know how that was, BTW) and then see if you get thrown out.Remember, the contention is that he only came to their attention from complains by others... not that they are actively policing for this.
- Soulhuntre
Justin, indeed, but is every person who stands in that spot with that lens and at that angle now automatically a pervert? A precedence has been set...
- Johnny Worthington
@John - that is not the issue (in my mind). As I stated on my blog, the museum's management has every right to react if they believe an employee is being harassed, but there is a right and wrong way to handle the situation. I'm guessing, Blint reacted inappropriately and Hawk reacted back.
- Justin Korn
Justin, but that IS the issue in many respects and why this has taken on a life of its own. While I respect the rights of the employees, do I also have the right to stand their and make that shot, a totally appropriate one, without fear that I will be accused of being a pervert? I understand the need for protection but what about my right to defend myself and continue my activity. I do not beleive TH was given that oppertunity, hence the sense of injustice.
- Johnny Worthington
@John, I agree. Anyone has the right, according to the policy, to take that photo. This is why I believe the situation was handled inappropriately from the get go by SFMOMA's staff. We are on the same track :)
- Justin Korn
Nice :)
- Johnny Worthington
Pretty standard CYA stuff from the SFMOMA lawyers. They are obviously afraid of their employee, and don't really care what happened. Eyewitness accounts -- and the photographs themselves -- show what the situation was. If Blint would have taken the time to look at the photographs, there would not have been any incident. Instead, he got on his power trip and decided to show that he has some authority in his sad little world.
- Jeremy Brooks
On the bright side, the next time Blint is looking for a job, there is a possibility that his prospective employer will google his name and find out that he does not belong in any position of responsibility, especially if the job involves dealing with the public.
- Jeremy Brooks
great PR .. there was an incident, we feel we were right, here's our prices, come out and see us!
- Tim Hoeck
This is ridiculous. Completely dismissing someone else's account is not the way to confront a customers complaint. They're basically saying. "We stand behind our employees so this guy is making everything up". Why don't you grow some balls and call Thomas Hawk or anyone else involved SFMOMA? Clearly they are in the wrong but won't do anything about it.
- Brandon Titus
Blint made an accusation, did not even care to check the proffered evidence to see if this accusation had any grounds in reality, then kicked Hawk out, apparently to prove he was the bigger man. This certainly seems to make Blint a jerk. SFMOMA publishes a BS "we are right and high and mighty" response; this makes them out to be jerks who should be avoided.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Well, I just read their response and it is about as benign as it could be. I wonder how many lawyers it took to write that couple of sentences.
- Jeff P. Henderson
One thing that disturbs me is that they said in their response that witnesses on their staff and among the general public reported to I assume Simon that the 'visitor' was photographing an employee in an "inappropriate and harassing manner". Assuming TH has told us all of the details, no one ever attempted to find out what or who he was actually photographing or substantiate the claims...
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- Jeff P. Henderson
I've been accused of doing something I wasn't before and I know how it feels. Recently I was photographing some street musicians in downtown Santa Cruz who happened to be located about 20' across from a bank teller machine. I was about 10-15' from the machine with my back to it. I gave the musicians a donation and they said it was OK to take their photo, so I shot about a half a dozen...
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- Jeff P. Henderson
(cont) BTY I was shooting with a 5D + Battery grip + 24-70L lens, quit an intimidating package. My point is that people make accusations all of the time for what ever reason. Some people feel that they are being good citizens for reporting 'suspicious' behavior. Some are miss informed about what is legal and what is not, in this case with respect to public photography. Some people are...
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- Jeff P. Henderson
Jeff - I've had experiences just like you describe - one of which I talked about loudly and publicly last year. We're afraid of the wrong things in this country. It's revealing that people will make accusations and talk about "suspicions" but then make no real effort to proving/disproving their assertions. Which tells us they just want to exercise power, not find truth (or even mitigate the imagined risks.)
- Anthony Citrano
@lane hartwell-It's called Class. Ironic to see your reference to it. Welcome back.
- Mrsth
SFMOMA | Press Room | SFMOMA Responds to August 8 Indcident - http://www.sfmoma.org/press...
Jeremiah Owyang and Ontario Emperor liked this
They finally respond to the Thomas Hawk incident.
- Mike Doeff
from Bookmarklet
Hmm, local Bay Area blog SFist is taking Blint's position: http://sfist.com/2008...
- Mike Doeff
In the end, the one thing that Hawk has in his favor is the picture itself. http://thomashawk.com/2008... Not quite sure you can get inappropriate harassment from that height.
- Ontario Emperor
Meanwhile, in other Non-Gmail Related News.. I Called SF MOMA - http://pixelbits.wordpress.com/2008...
Franklin Pettit, , Jeremiah Owyang and 39 other people liked this
I presume you will keep us up to date
- Brian Sullivan
bummer
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
I talked to two different people since I don't trust people's words. Especially PR folks. I would've talked to all of them, but two didn't pick up their phones.
- Mona Nomura
I wonder what's taking them so long to respond
- Bjorn Stromberg
They have weekends off? Who knows. The point is, they're working on it :)
- Mona Nomura
Mona, I agree w/ the weekends off bit. We're all plugged in so much, we don't realize that there are in fact people who don't touch a bit of tech 2 days out of the week.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
I'm just happy they are now aware of the issue and plan to address it. I hope there's a direct statement from the Director of Client Services.....
- Mona Nomura
Glad they are aware! I look forward to the response. Photographers must stand united!
- Michael
go Mona go ,, remind me never to get on Mona's bad side ,,
- johnpiercy
Oh, I just got tired of waiting so I did something... Has nothing to do with my good / bad side! :)
- Mona Nomura
I doubt the person in question will make a statement and if he does it was most likely pre-written for him. I'll bet it's going to be along the lines of "We're really sorry this happened and it won't happen again. We're going to make up for this by <insert something here>"
- Candace
I fear Candace may be optimistic. My bet is on a "we're reviewing our policies" statement.
- Ontario Emperor
@Candice: As much as I would love the statement to be that... I think it will be more along the lines of 'We are right, TH was wrong, All Photography is banned'... I HOPE I am wrong
- Johnny Worthington
@John - They could revoke the photography policy or alter it to "point and shoot" rather than "hand held", but if there is no way they will say "we are right..." -- unless there is another side to the story we don't know about. But I'm really doubting that is the case.
- Justin Korn
It would depend on three things. #1. How bad the press is surrounding what happened. #2. How the public is reacting and, #3. How widespread it is. Unfortunately, if it's just the internet and internet communities being upset over it then they may not have much to say at all.
- Candace
Wow thanks for the update Mona. I was wondering this myself.
- Mrsth
I just decided to call and ask since FriendFeed was filled with Gmail talk.. Had to keep myself occupied somehow ;) ...but it's 5:30pm and still nothing. I called again, but no one's picking up lol
- Mona Nomura
My money is on an outright apology. "With your arms around your enemy, he can not draw his sword."-Dali Llma
- Mrsth
The Dali Llma is a VERY wise man :)
- Mona Nomura
I could picture MoMA saying "We are right." Think about it. Perhaps the social media community is very small, but the MoMA community is much smaller. I could picture Blint, his boss, and a few others in a room discussing the issue, and concluding that the negative reaction is just a case of mob mentality, and that Blint was right in defending MoMA employees from whatever Blint was...
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- Ontario Emperor
Oh, and in case anyone's wondering. The two individuals I spoke with were extremely nice, polite, helpful, willing to answer questions, and not snooty at all.. but then again, they DO work in PR
- Mona Nomura
Justin, I had a pretty long discussion yesterday here with some people (very anti-TH) and they made me realise that while Thomas is in the right, that sexual harassment thing is pretty powerful. Blint may press his claims that TH was shooting down the shirt of a female employee. If that female employee, however mistaken, thought she was being violated then some organisations have a policy of ejection without consulation or right of reply. they may push that rather than addressing the photography issue.
- Johnny Worthington
Organizations whether Non-profit or corporations take longer to reply than a loose cannon like Thomas Hawk. They need to keep a tight communication message for a "crisis". I look forward to hearing the other side of this story. Knowing how Thomas Hawk has taken action counter to their policies in the past I have a feeling there is more to the story than what has been revealed to date.
- Jim Goldstein
So my sister works at a museum, and I've done hourly work there- and I have to admit, when you're working with the public, there are pervs out there. I think this was a smart precautionary move. Is he guilty? I don't know. But if someone was feeling uncomfortable, is it a huge loss that Thomas Hawk only got a few pictures? Is that the fact that he's Thomas Hawk, a reason to treat him differently from joe-blow-pervy-tourist?
- anna sauce
Anna, the problem is that the treatment TH recieved happens to alot of photographers, myself included. This type of treatment, the automatic assumption that you are a perv cause you are a photographer, is soul crushing. When does 'playing it safe' trump innocent until proven guilty.
- Johnny Worthington
Who gives a rat's ass if he's Thomas Hawk. He has a photo taken of the incident. I saw no boobies. Not even a hint of boobs. Now he's a "loose cannon"? LOL. This whole thing just gets more amusing by the hour.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Rasheen, I agree. I saw no boobies as well, and trust me I would have seen them. But that sexual harassement stuff is powerful... I reckon they would take TH sueing them over a female employee sueing them any day (doesn't make it right though).
- Johnny Worthington
@Rahsheen Porter I wouldn't say TH is a saint by any means. He's gone to MoMA in the past asking for trouble. On Renegade Photography http://thomashawk.com/2007... "Rather than simply miss Jeff Wall's work due to my dogmatic protest against the SF Moma's anti-photography policy, I decided that I would go, but that I'd shoot anyways... I'm sure this rubs some...
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- Jim Goldstein
Nice follow up, Mona.
- Michael W. May
from twhirl
Yeah man...WOW. He's a freakin animal. I see why we need to keep his kind in check. How dare he take that camera in places and take photos. Who the hell does he think he is? Sorry for sarcasm, but I just don't see the danger.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Uhhhh may I interrupt for a second to say, the individuals I spoke with in the SF MOMA's PR Department were ALL kind, helpful, and willing to answer my inquiries in the utmost respectful way. I am extremely eager to hear their side of the story and what / how they plan to rectify this situation. This story interests me, NOT because of the Thomas Hawk 'brand name', per se, but because it could have happened to anyone. Thank you.
- Mona Nomura
Jim, while TH's past is intresting, how does it relate to this situation. If it was me, an amature photographer with no histroy, does it make SFMOMA actions any more or less vaild?
- Johnny Worthington
As a woman who sits through Thomas Hawks hours of processing & photo viewing on literally, a daily basis, & while he is definitely a self admitted admirer of the female form, shooting down shirts is just not the shot he aims for.
- Mrsth
Mona, agreed, SFMOMA rocks. I hope to visit (and hopefully shoot it) next year.
- Johnny Worthington
Mrsth, and certainly not with a 14mm lens :)
- Johnny Worthington
We are all missing the point...this is not about Thomas Hawk vs Simon Blint or even SFMOMA. This about the way Simon Blint/SFMOMA reacted to the situation.
- Justin Korn
@John Worthington I think his past should play a factor. If he has a track record of looking for conflict (which he does) then you should temper your outrage until the other side of the story can be shared. Thomas has the ability to blast away at will, while Simon Blint is restrained by the communication policy of his employer. I don't condone a museum for needlessly throwing out or harassing a photographer, but their side of the story has yet to be told. MoMA isn't on "Internet Time" people forget that.
- Jim Goldstein
So, Jim. You consider a photographer breaking rules about where photos are allowed to be taken a man looking for "conflict"? Did he say "I hope they say something cuz I haven't cracked a skull in a while" or did he say "I believe art should be more open"?
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Jim, my outrage is fuelled by being accused of being a pedofille while taking photos of my own 2 year old daughter. My outrage is fuelled by the bruises on my chest from an angry father at my nephews soccer game... My outrage is fuelled by almost being handcuffed for shooting in a public space (Queen Street Mall in Brisbane). I'll keep my outrage at the current level thank you...
- Johnny Worthington
And while Blint is restrained by the communication policy, he doesn't seem to be by his own employer's photography one.
- Johnny Worthington
Mona - New hat. Ace reporter!
- Charlie Anzman
HA! Reporter? I am FAR from one, nor do I care to be. I forget people on here don't know me. If I believe strongly enough in something, I 'do' and aim to resolve. Whether it be for me, a friend, or a complete stranger :)
- Mona Nomura
John: I love how you state the 14mm lense as if it's an obvious tip that he wasn't a perv. I bet a lot of the people that comment in these threads don't even know what a 14mm wide angle lense looks like. http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews... Forget TH and the names. If that female employee looked up and saw that pointed towards her from above, it's understandable for her to feel uncomfortable & complain.
- Louie
Dig the way you emphasized 'polite'. So many people call companies, etc., and start screaming and don't realize they're immediately alienating the person on the other end. I've been on both sides. The screamers got ZIP.
- Charlie Anzman
Louie: The point is not arguing their cases... It's not in mine or anyone else's position, for that matter, to put words in their mouths, IMHO. @Charlie: Well I *AM* Japanese, it is in our nature to be bery bery porite <--said EngRish.. HA.. NOT. Anyway, thank you for noticing :)
- Mona Nomura
Mona: The point is what? I've seen people ejected from businesses because of harassment. You get a short explanation and the door/security. This situation seems like the same, even if TH wasn't doing what he was accused of. Is it wrong to try and think of different sides of the situation? From TH's own blog post, it is very apparent why he was asked to leave. Employers have and obligation to provide a safe work environment and many have a ZERO tollerance policy for harassment of their employees.
- Louie
Louie: It's a little too early to throw heavy weighted words as 'harassment' around until we hear the other side of the story. Like I stated on my blog, my issue with this situation is: 1. SF MOMA allows photography. 2. Despite its policies, SF MOMA’s Director of Visitor Relations, Simon Blint, personally threw out Thomas Hawk (a patron). 3. Thomas Hawk wants an explanation as to why this occurred, as do I.
- Mona Nomura
To quote TH: "Blint told me that "he did not care" and that he needed to "protect" his employees -- employees that might appear in my photographs... He accused me of using a "telephoto" lens to spy on his staff from the public staircase on the second floor."
- Louie
Even if the woman was mistaken about TH's intentions, the employer is obligated to take her complaint very seriously. Sure, he could have taken his time to sit and conversate with TH about it all. It would be the most polite thing to do. But many people want to just nip the situation in the bud as soon as possible, to alleviate the situation. This is especially true after California's mandated sexual harassment training for all Management positions. His job/finances/reputation are at stake.
- Louie
Louie: You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. As I stated before, it is not in my position to assume anything until I hear both sides of the story.
- Mona Nomura
Hmm...maybe we need to hear a third side of the story. She can comment anonymously if she wishes, but if Hawk is being accused of something, perhaps she can clarify what she (reportedly) accused him of doing.
- Ontario Emperor
from fftogo
So here's another question- b/c TH thinks art should be free, he can take photos of it and distribute at will- the artist has no say. What about subjects? Do they have any say?
- anna sauce
Cheers for the update, Mona. How very journalistic, following up on a blog shit storm, rather than just repeating the original story in the first place. Nice work.
- Chris Nixon
@Mona, any update on a response from the SF MOMA on this incident? Now that we are all done jerking our knees, (myself included) in response to Thomas's post, it would sure be nice to hear the other side of the story. Unfortunately I fear that it will be heavily filtered by lawyers and not say much, especially in the area of accepting or pointing blame.
- Jeff P. Henderson
More on the Whole Simon Blint Fiasco - http://thomashawk.com/2008...
Sally Church, Ole Begemann, Bryan Villarin and 68 other people liked this
Good follow-up TH.
- Justin Korn
As I commented earlier, the employee in question acted outside the rules set by MOMA and took it apon himself to have a person ejected DESPITE other people in the gallery performing the same actions. As "Director of Visitor Relations", you are not some type of low level employee, you are a person who is the public face of an organisation.
- Johnny Worthington
I think it's SFist, SF Fist sounds like a completely different site...
- Phill Price
Phill +1
- Johnny Worthington
thanks Phill, I'll correct that in the post :)
- Thomas Hawk
I am with JMS but would add the photograhy 'IS A CRIME' virus has also infected the UK and France.
- Mel Buckpitt
increasingly I'm hearing stories of harassment in the UK. I think much of the recent harassment in the UK can be directly attributed to a public campaign on the part of the UK's Metropolitan Police to demonize photography. http://thomashawk.com/2008...
- Thomas Hawk
Excellent followup. I can't wait to hear the response to this issue form Simon and the SF MOMA.
- Jeff P. Henderson
powerful, thanks for sharing your experiance
- sean percival
I attended the Ekka this weekend (Queensland, Australia's version of a state fair) with the intention of photographing it. I rang the organisers before hand and they said while it is not allowed, they will not enforce it. The Terms Of Entry signage outside also said photography or video is not allowed. Within 50 meters from the front gate, I counted at least 11 DSLR in use. If these rules are going to be created, they must be enforced or face this type of situation occuring. Luckily, I was not 'Blinted'...
- Johnny Worthington
@tv the UK stuff is blown out of proportion and the met only covers London where u shoot daily without harm
- Phill Price
It's nice to read a follow up story after everyones emotions quieted down.
- Bob Gannon
Consider the fact that Thomas did take the time to follow-up. Reading other posts from over the weekend, I really think this got blown way out of proportion. It's almost surreal.
- Charlie Anzman
Not sure what planet I was on yesterday but I completely missed this whole incident till I saw @stevenhodson 's post on it . I have had similar, but not as direct, experiences over the past couple of days...more to say about this on the blog later.
- Karoli
I don't think this is blown out of proportion because too many photographers are experiencing harassment. Seriously people, we need to wake and up and start making some changes before our rights are taken away. I know this many sound extreme, but it all starts with a small act that no one says anything about or objects to.
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JMS... I guess the TWiP guys are gonna sell out of their 'Photography Is Not A Crime' shirts real fast! (I'm still getting a Hey Everybody!)
- Johnny Worthington
@Thomas: Thank you for following up (and listening to your wife about the choice of language on your original post). Like Jeff and others, I also wish the museum would respond somehow.
- David Muir
Shakespere does have a way with words, Gregory. I agree. Surely this could have been settled with a nice, civil letter to the management? Sticks and stones, you know?
- Roberto Bonini
gotta forgive him at some point, or you'll be dragging it around the rest of your days. imo.
- Josh Haley
Good post Thomas. I disagree Gregory. Because this incident has already received so much attention it requires clarification. Search google for Simon Blint...
- Rafael Robayna
One of the things that bothers me about this whole affair is just the issue of Googling for Simon Blint. It turns up hundreds of references to Mr. Blint, calling him jerk, asshole and will likely permanently affect his future job prospects, From TH's account (which no doubt is truthful), his actions were objectionable and uncalled for. But Thomas does not have to worry about future job...
more...
- Brian Sullivan
Very well said Thomas.
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
You know, it looks to me like photographing people in public without their consent is actually illegal in Canada - see http://www.stevekwan.com/archive... and http://www.cbc.ca/technol... - due to privacy laws. Clearly unenforceable, and I know it doesn't apply in this case, but it's interesting. I bet European (and UK) laws are similar.
- Owen Byrne
I don't know who's right and who's wrong here, but if I ever see Thomas Hawk in my neighborhood, I am staying the hell out of his way. Seriously, this kind of contretemps scares the shit out of me. I'm a teacher. What if some day one of my students' parents decides to blog about something I innocently said or did in class that happened to piss him off? How long before my home phone and kids' pictures are all over the web? If you think it can't happen to you, well, don't be so sure.
- Nathan Rein
For those awaiting a response from SF MoMA - to my knowledge they haven't issued one yet, but people started posting comments on an unrelated post in the SF MoMA blog. Suzanne from SF MoMA ended up responding, but she said that she didn't know the scope of the complaints and couldn't weigh in, and could everyone please stay on topic? http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008...
- Ontario Emperor
@Owen, As you pointed out, Thomas is in the US where it is Not illegal to take photos of people in public places. Usage of the image is where permission or release comes into play. For non commercial and news related uses permission and releases are generally not required. Of course there is always common courtesy. If someone asks nicely not to be photographed I certainly oblige. Thomas has stated many times that he fallows this mantra also. Of course that was not the case in this instance.
- Jeff P. Henderson
@Jeff, I just brought it up because I take pictures myself, and I am in Canada, and I sometimes feel uncomfortable taking pictures of strangers and posting them on flickr (especially children or teenagers). But I never thought it would be illegal.
- Owen Byrne
Good follow up. People really should be careful how they act in public. You never know who's got a camera. :-)
- Jeremy Brooks
This has been a very interesting event to follow. I would love to hear a reaction from the MOMA to see if they are paying attention.
- Michael
Quick note: fiasco means failure.
- Alexei Tolkachev
Regarding MOMA's response, the only reactions I've seen were a comment in the MOMA blog and two verbal replies to Mona's post. It sounds like a response is being prepared.
- Ontario Emperor
sometimes I think that the security guards need to pass around headshots of Thomas with a note attatched that says "Leave alone -- will cause bad publicity". The rest of the time, I just figure that they already have been passing around his headshot, which is why he gets stopped much more often than anybody else.
- Wirehead
The reason he gets hassled more than anyone else is that he probably shoots photos more than anyone else. He carries his camera everywhere, so he's bound to run into people who object to it's presents or object to being the subject of his photos. I've seen him shoot and anyone that has knows he gets very focused on what he is doing, almost to the point of possibly not knowing who is around him or what is going on near him.
- Jeff P. Henderson
(cont) What probably happens sometimes is that he will be busy shooting and someone will make an expression or gesture of displeasure to his activities or his presents. He might not even notice. The next thing you know the person gets annoyed and confronts him. I can easily see this scenario happening.
- Jeff P. Henderson
Leather, Have to agree with you on the renegade photography part. This has always rubbed me the wrong way. I think Lane Hartwell gave a comprehensive summary and opinion here. http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008... But in this case I don't think that was the issue as he was clearly shooting in an area that he was allowed.
- Jeff P. Henderson
For those who haven't read SF MoMA's statement, here it is. And it's not an apology. http://www.sfmoma.org/press...
- Ontario Emperor
I have simple question how or what reasoning can any public figure of an art institute submit that suddenly denies an art patron their art patronage simply because they take photographs? Is there a sing that states "you lose your art patronage rights if you carry anything with a camera lens?" What we had here was miss communication between two art patrons f''ed up by a very naive public rep.
- Fred Grott
Photography is Not a Crime - Blint of SFMOMA is an asshole! - http://thomashawk.com/2008...
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