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Good morning programmers! http://twitter.com/login What was the biggest change to your world in 2009?
egor, Daniel Rowley, Arvind and 17 other people liked this
Without a doubt: http://rsscloud.org/
- Dave Winer
In my case spending 99% of my time progamming and not having to worry about hardware anymore thanks to rackspace cloud.
- Ben Newton
Being able to use Java 1.5 finally lol.
- bugtank@gmail.com
wondering which job will be outsourced next..
- Paul E. Ester
wondering wich job will be insourced next :)
- PierG
Mobile development finally becoming mainstream, CSS3 finally being useful in a large number of browsers, and the launch of the Palm Pre and its use of CSS/HTML/JS to build mobile apps rather than java or objective C.
- Luke Kilpatrick
comenzar a usar bitubucker.org
- JuanPablo
Thinking about the possibilities of HTML5.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Seeing that Facebook Connect and Twitter can essentially replace OAuth.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Realizing that Google is trying to re-invent the whole web stack -- I expect to see HTML, CSS, Javascript, scripting, and compiled language alternatives in 2010-2011. And I'm all for it.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Thinking about bigtable database solutions for the highest scalability (and the tradeoffs that come along with the switch)
- Christopher Galtenberg
This year I became programmer to entrepreneur. Started two companies, one fell out, one remains.
- mytweetmark
too many, Google Vincent release with brand effects (yuch!), personalized search, real-time search in Google, Bing/Yahoo deal, site performance a ranking factor, should I go on?
- Arthur Coleman
Google Chrome
- andy magoon
Leaving regular employment and striking out as a consultant!
- John Fiala
Learning to break big projects (1+ years) into smaller time scale to allow for faster implementation.
- Mark Stevens
Google Chrome . Also Integration of new web services making development of software ( esp mobile ) easier and faster
- Kashif Khan
1. Facebook Connect 2. HTML 5 3. Kynetx
- Jesse Stay
Java 1.6 on Mac, finally. Node.js shows up and reinvents what it takes to write asynchronous server-side applications (though I haven't used it for anything real). Google Chrome upset the browser extension development paradigms (no longer require a deep understanding of the browsers). Google Web Toolkit improves their run-debug cycle and lets you develop on any browser on your machine (or in a virtual machine).
- Matt Mastracci
John, congratulations! That's a very tough, but rewarding experience!
- Jesse Stay
cloud api wars without a doubt.
- Adrian Cole
Visual Studio 2010/ .net 4. Let you know when I think of more.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Balancing paying work and beginning my first 2 entrepreneur ventures with family. Not to mention the ever changing APIs of popular web services.
- Marc Betts
Squeezing into iPhones and watching Java raise the white flag.
- Michael Galpin
from iPhone
WebKit 3D Transitions, which let me do this: http://www.satine.org/archive...
- Charles Ying
my L1-A visa to be able to work in the US ;) definitely the biggest 2009 change for me :D
- stephane
.net 4.0 , silverlight showing promise
- Kashif Khan
Geolocation becoming a real thing, the ability to make money from iphone style app stores, the continued buildout of cloud functionality, NoSQL mindshare exploding.
- Todd Hoff
Leaving Grazr, the company I co-founded to start something new. For programming, completely switching over to using Python for almost all of my web dev.
- mikepk
I can tell you my 2010 big change as well: no longer having to think about IE6 when developing for the web. That'll happen sometime late Q310, I'm sure.
- Matt Mastracci
The cloud left 'cool' status and is on the radar of CTO's
- jeremyoday
Definately the Cloud. Windows Azure came of age this PDC too.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Roberto: have you shipped anything on Azure yet, though?
- Robert Scoble
The cloud was big for us in 2008... we made a big bet on AWS then and it's paid off dividends though 2009 as Amazon dropped its prices. It was marginally better than hosted servers in 2008 and it's now beating it hands-down. I suppose that's a change in 2009 as well.
- Matt Mastracci
Not yet. I'm working on that. Doing my Honors year project on it. Will have somthing in a few months.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Matt: there are two types of programmers in the world: those who use Amazon and those who use Rackspace Cloud. :-)
- Robert Scoble
I'd love to consider Rackspace, but it'll take a year without multiple major outages before it goes back into my evaluation pool. We get outages and machine failures on AWS, but they are a lot rarer and shorter in my experience. It might be that the reporting of outages could be biased against Rackspace, too, but without more data it's a big risk for me as a founder/CTO.
- Matt Mastracci
Listen to Jesse. IRC and mailing lists.
- John
from Android
Having my employer fail completely and close the doors. Second time that has happened to me.
- DGentry
Matt: we've had, I believe, three major outages this year, very unacceptable. Two were power outages in our Dallas datacenter. The third was a configuration mistake made by a team at Rackspace as we started to move customers over to our datacenter in Chicago. Yes, because many big web sites like 37signals, Techcrunch, and Mashable are all on Rackspace our downtime gets noticed every single time.
- Robert Scoble
Seeing a 2010 free of major high-profile downtime would be enough to convince me that things are stable. Rackspace should put up numbers on their downtime vs. other providers, even if it's not entirely flattering, so we can see them in the open without the high-profile-site bias. Sorry to derail your 2009 thread here! :)
- Matt Mastracci
2009, the year it became cool to be a geek :)
- Kashif Khan
Matt: the problem with numbers is it's hard to figure out. Even during our three big outages not all of our customers were involved (we have 50,000 servers and 10s of thousands of customers and are the world's largest hosting company).
- Robert Scoble
Have a few: 1) It's been far easier to make money using PHP than C#, 2) jobs on dice are increasingly becoming more javascript/ui focused, 3) starting to understand how to use twitter.
- David Nelson
You know moving all my servers over to Rackspace from Amazon was pretty significant too (and I'm saving a lot more money)
- Jesse Stay
Am I a fuddy duddy for not feeling like the cloud risk is worth the reward? I have a google-fast site with BBG, it's close to bare metal, it's cheap, we have support. I dunno. I'd make the same choice again.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher: that's why we still provide traditional hosting too. Cloud is not for everything. That said, almost all of the new startups I've been interviewing lately have been on either Rackspace or Amazon. There are major cost advantages to cloud (especially for sites with spiky traffic) that more and more are going that way.
- Robert Scoble
I think cloud needs a disaster-free 2010. Then a lot more 'moderates' like myself will bring the big money over.
- Christopher Galtenberg
The cloud risk is worth it in our experience. We have a lot of servers on amazon doing crawling, indexing, API hosting, etc. You're a lot more nimble when it comes to swapping out machines. Our overall downtime on AWS is basically the same as when we had hosted servers. We also pay careful attention to what we shift to Amazon's CDN so our boxes are serving what they serve best. The only Amazon fuckup that affected us this year was losing an attached storage device that we didn't have backed up properly.
- Matt Mastracci
Christopher: I've seen quite a few companies that self host have major problems. Twitter is a good example. Self hosting is not disaster free either. Cloud is actually more reliable in many ways than self hosting is, especially if you do self hosting wrong.
- Robert Scoble
+1 to what Robert said. In 2008, when you balanced out the cloud cost + the time spent managing servers you'd end up very close. Prices have dropped by nearly 50% since then. Major disasters are way more expensive while self-hosting, but you don't see that many of them unless you've got a fleet of a few dozen machines running 24/7. Every company's evaluation of risk/reward is different though - ours tipped over to the cloud though and we're definitely using it as well as we can.
- Matt Mastracci
Matt: Techcrunch's CTO backs that up: http://www.rackspace.com/blog...
- Robert Scoble
I became a lover of cloud apps after working on the infrastructure team for a recently famous startup. Not fun to say the least. I don't like babysitting Nagios and fearing database disks failing, 3 year old multi-threaded code you didn't write deadlocking, etc. :-1
- David Nelson
cloud and morphing from ASP.NET to WordPress(PHP/CSS)
- Melanie Reed
I don't know all the niceties that Rackspace offers (Robert could chime in here), but AWS also gives you easy and fast access to S3 and cloudfront for content serving, SQS for job queues and various load balancing features. Having access to some of those little features really does take a load off your mind. I keep hoping that Amazon will start offering giant, hosted memcache instances. That's one thing I love about the cloud: hosted extra features.
- Matt Mastracci
starting to develop for Android, feels like a warm bath after a year of Objective-c for iPhone. Yes the iPhone is hot and sexy, but developing for Android is much easier. Ow, and looking forward to deploying on Amazon's AWS, almost can't remember thoughts of buying hardware myself :)
- Dirk
Dirk: 2010 is going to be a big year for Android. It isn't lost on me that Google is starting out the new year with a big Android announcement (I'll be there).
- Robert Scoble
the one thing Android needs now is an excellent user interface, hopefully close to the iPhone's. User experience is the one thing the iPhone is light years ahead in
- Dirk
Matt: we're working on many of those things and more for Rackspace Cloud too. We have some of the world's experts on database technology (one of the guys who worked on Cassandra, which is Facebook's system, works for us, for instance) and you'll see a lot more from us, as to specifics there are other better places to compare us to Amazon, would love to help anyone figure out the differences, though, if it's not self evident.
- Robert Scoble
Robert I agree with you about 2010 being the year of Android . Also developing for it is awesome . Do you think it will also be the year for T-Mobile ?
- Kashif Khan
Dirk: agreed. Android is getting bettter though and we'll see next week just how much more they have to go. Kashif: I really doubt it, but you never know. Most of the geeks in Silly Valley want Verizon.
- Robert Scoble
The economy of 2009 made business take the cloud way more serious.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Dropbox changed my world this year. All of a sudden users can painlessly get large numbers of files from their desktop or iphone to my site. All the previous options are comparatively awkward: web forms, email, Picasa client, XP wizard. It also upped demand considerably and forced me to turn to cloud storage for help.
- Bruce Lewis
Learning the basics of web programming. Whoa.. there's a whole lotta ways to do the same thing.
- Mark Essel
Robert: cool, re: extra features. I'll keep an eye out this year for new Rackspace features.
- Matt Mastracci
GWT for showing how webapps can be written, Adobe Air for showing how they can be deployed, webkit/chrome for raising the bar really high, cloud services that are almost good enough to host a real business and up and coming DBs like Casandra for saving us from RDBs
- john schneider
from iPhone
2010 will not only be the year of the Android, but also mobile in general (and I'm including 7 inch tablets in that statement).
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
GWT was/is _huge_ but wasn't that 2008? It's really matured in 2009 for sure. Love the new features like code splitting.
- David Nelson
Oh ya, the google plugin for eclipse! Love it!!!
- David Nelson
GWT made huge leaps in 2009. The development experience of 2008 was hosted mode (meaning IE in windows). The GWT 2.0 experience is plugin-based, slicker and much faster. The new plugins also let us debug our GWT-based firefox extension in Eclipse which was impossible before. I just released some of that code as an open-source project (gwt-firefox-extension) </shamelessplug>
- Matt Mastracci
My developer friends ripped me a new hole for suggesting that GWT was good. And I actually tried it - and it was good. They were just being arrogant ignorant jquery assholes.
- Terris Linenbach
Matt - totally agree about GWT making huge leaps in 2009. You think it was because google started using it on more high profile projects like wave and adwords? Perhaps they ramped up development of it?
- David Nelson
It may seem small but my biggest change was my coding font. I went from Monaco to Consolas.
- Andrew Smith
Consolas is a good one. Anonymous Pro is also good.
- DGentry
David, I think a lot of the features that appeared in GWT 2.0 were driven by internal customers (code splitting and the new UI binder for sure). The GWT team is incredibly smart and they were building a lot of the new infrastructure on top of the solid and mature GWT 1.x series. This year was all about solving some of the real-world issues that came up when GWT-based projects started to mature as well as figuring out how to cut out much of the boilerplate.
- Matt Mastracci
Having moved to Albuquerque (albeit in 2008).
- Michael R. Bernstein
For me it was Hadoop, Lucene/Solr, AWS, RDF, re-learning Ruby, Scala, dynamic Virtual Resource allocation/de-allocation, real-time data mapping. Nice to finally get back to doing meaningful work for a change ;)
- Altan Khendup
And yes, moving our org to support mobile technology further. Tablets and encouragement of Android use
- Melanie Reed
agree on GWT.. totally :)
- mehmet t. akalın
Right. GWT team - talk about talented engineers! :-) They do amazing work.
- David Nelson
WPF & Silverlight has been huge for me in 2009. Seems like all the projects I worked on where based on them. Overall though cloud services have changed everything.
- Ryan Lane
To be honest... the Thesis framework for Wordpress and Wordpress MU
- Seth Goldstein
Probably that I became skilled at Scala programming.
- Dave Briccetti
The biggest thing was Solr; it revolutionized how we present data to our clients. Second biggest thing was finding out how flawed Rackspace currently is: Rackspace pre-2009 was much different than it is now. Here's to hoping 2010 is much better.
- Mark Trapp
Growth of Joomla and Drupal,and the ecosystem to support them. 2010: Microsoft, Google and IBM's responses will add to the mix.
- Brian Benz
Also, the announcement Office 2010 and Sharepoint 2010. The changes have not been noticed widely - yet, but they will be....
- Brian Benz
+1 Trapp, Solr is big.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Server side JavaScript really picking up steam. JSGI, CommonJS, Web Sockets, Narwhal, Jack, NodeJS, Persevere, Etherpad.
- Raphael, Raphael
The cloud.. Ec2, s3, the entire stack of cloud services provided by amazon.. That's the biggest programming change for 2009
- Jeethu Karthik
from iPod
Realizing the potential in asynchronous, long-running processes and how they could be utilized in different kind of products. Also, everything dev-related announced/published by Microsoft.
- Jemm
Learning Javascript and reading Coders At Work [ http://www.amazon.com/Coders-... ].
- Arvind
A few things: The economy, revisiting my commercial app development roots, my first two iPhone apps (ultimately a joy to develop), my first Android app (frustrating so far, but that's OK - I'm cheering Google on), a hard lesson after getting burned by an enterprise client prospect, my LLC's group health plan cost spiral, getting some mega-zen with Objective-C vs. Java, the cloud, IE6 begone ... and Thesis. :)
- Joe D'Andrea
i don't know
- ★ Soner Gönül
So I finally tried Wave... - http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009...
Bertrand Doux, JSLeFanu, Tyson Key and 76 other people liked this
Integrating into Gmail -- never thought of that as a possibility before.
- Brian Sullivan
Think of it as "live email"
- Paul Buchheit
The only problem I see is that advertising may not be the best way to make money from it.
- Brian Sullivan
@paul, Is it correct to replace email?
- Hasan Ozgan
Hasan, I don't understand your question.
- Paul Buchheit
A wave-gmail integration sounds like quite the challenge. Perhaps the real-time text updates will happen and will be useful, but I can't see the conversation fragmentation of Wave being a good thing for Gmail.
- Mitch
While I admire the approach of releasing something that's pre-beta, it seems there is quite a risk that people will think, "oh, I tried Wave and didn't get it," and they will not come back to it for a long time.
- Laura Norvig
Laura - Google wants developers in there making cool stuff in the lead-up to the public release. If it were only developers trying out each others tools, things would be stagnant.
- Mitch
I live and work in Gwave - business partner could not access wave due to inferior connections in Manchester and working in docs again was such a backward step!
- Callie O Farrell
That's true, Mitchell, I forgot about all the gadgets people are developing. Also, Gina Trapani pointed out that the one interface that most of us see when we opt in to "try wave" is not the only interface available. I would love to see some samples of simpler/different interfaces.
- Laura Norvig
@paul will wave ever replace email?
- Hasan Ozgan
Hasan, no, it will augment email.
- Paul Buchheit
The fact that Google Wave was not part of Gmail's roadmap and in fact is positioned as "the future of e-mail" was a sign to me that Google is now large enough to suffer the kind of organizational dysfunction that has done in its predecessors. As you mentioned, e-mail will be with us for a long time. It would have been better to position it as "the future of collaboration" and indicate...
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- Dare Obasanjo
There was shortage of wave invites when it came out but now people are waiting to give wave invites. I didn't see any of my friends returning to wave after they used it once. I log into wave everyday just to see if there are any improvements.
- ashish
Paul - Great insights! I too feel Wave is most suited as a team collaboration / productivity tool. The biggest hurdle is loss of context and convo structure. Once the wave team better organizes the UI, then it can go mainstream. Wave integration with gmail would be super cool and highly useful, plus it greatly would speed up user adoption.
- Susan Beebe
I just posted my comment above on your blog, facebook and here - LOL :)
- Susan Beebe
Mitch - cool share, thanks
- Susan Beebe
"The chronological flow of the conversation is lost." That's exactly the issue. Playback tries to address it but doesn't quite. I think there are other ways to do this, that will be tried both inside and outside Google. I'm thrilled that Google didn't force the Wave team to be part of Gmail from the start, because that would have added all kinds of unnecessary constraints. This way Wave can try lots of new stuff and Gmail can adopt what sticks.
- Daniel Dulitz
It's Sharepoint started from the web side instead of Office
- Nick Lothian
I had assumed that at some point Google would merge Wave and Gmail. It seems the natural progression. Also, I think the linearity problem will be addressed when they can figure a way to easily mark the new replies so that you can quickly see them - maybe in some from of selectable overlay or view of the wave
- Martha
Don't we think they should merge Gmail and Wave because we don't check our waves as often as our emails? What if we all had a cross-browser and mobile notification system for both Wave and email? Since I have installed the Chrome checker extensions for Wave and Gmail, the question of a merger doesn't make any sense. I can easily email and wave the same way I use Facebook, Friendfeed and...
more...
- Jérôme Flipo
No, I think Google should merge Gmail and Wave because many times in the middle of an email conversation I wish I had wave functionality. Because the conversation has gotten hard to understand and I want to play it back. Because different subthreads have different people on them for no good reason. Because an idea has turned into a proposal and the words aren't quite right.
- Daniel Dulitz
Here's a specific type of merger I think could work. Wave "merges" with Gmail, GChat, and Docs, in that whenever you create an email/IM/doc you are creating a wave. Anyone can see that wave in its full realtime nonlinear glory from the product Wave. Any wave you have (whether started from Docs or email or...) can be seen in Wave. But Gmail, GChat, Docs, etc. provide only some functions...
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- Daniel Dulitz
@Daniel Dulitz sounds somewhat like how social networking aggregator such as friendfeed works. This way Google wave will aggregate all the activities of gmail,Gchat, docs and other "google activity" in one place.
- ashish
I am not so sure about Gmail or Gchat and how you would integrate them-- as Wave seems to have similar and some cases superior functionality that supplants them but being able to collaborate on the production/editing of Google docs in real time perhaps using Google voice conferencing would be nearing a game changer.
- Brian Sullivan
That would be great, Daniel. But I think it would require *a lot* of work for some teams at Google and some good explanations to users. I'm sure we'll find specific usages for Wave. Personally, I would let the service grow by itself, without complicating other services. Imagine if I start a Wave and some of my friends participate in it through Docs, some other from Gmail: many troubles...
more...
- Jérôme Flipo
@Dare: I disagree that Wave is evidence of organizational dysfunction (not saying there *is* not such dysfunction, but Wave certainly doesn't prove it). Whether you love it or hate it, and whether or not you think it will be successful, I believe it's evidence of a company that wants to continue to take risks and innovate in the face of organizational momentum. Why wasn't Wave part of...
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- Joel Webber
It seems like the only big issue is the non-linearity of Wave. So, instead of merging other products to offer alternative (somehow), why not let the creator/owner of a Wave choose if blips should be linear?
- Jérôme Flipo
Well Paul, I also think Wave is very clever. Yet I see a few problems regarding the launch process: 1. They launched it exactly like Gmail, by reducing invitation supply & delaying invitation delivery. Yet, unlike an e-mail account and a web based e-mail client this is a collaborative tool that you can not use alone. That's the main reason most influencers and early adopters are...
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- Cem ARGUN
Regarding my proposed merger... I think part of the problem of Wave is that it has too much capability for many people, but real experts (may) like the full-on experience. So let's make everything a wave. Experts interact with those things in Wave or some other full-on experience. But people in the slow lane can interact with _the same wave_ using "views" they are more familiar with --...
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- Daniel Dulitz
Jérôme, in addition to "linearity" there is also the issue of edits versus replies. Also, what do you mean by allowing the creator to choose if blips should be linear? Transforms are sequential today; the whole question is how to extract "(conversational) linearity" from "mere sequence." Linearity is a UI issue. Why allow the creator to specify the reader's UI, instead of leaving it up...
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- Daniel Dulitz
My definition of linearity is rather basic, as is my English :) I meant "non-threaded" conversation, just like here. I think most of the confusion comes from realtime hierarchical conversations: we can't determine easily where the discussion is going at a given moment. As a doc, a Wave must support sub-threads, but as a conversation it may be helpful to oblige participants to respond to...
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- Jérôme Flipo
Keep in mind that's there's a difference between the Wave Protocol/Architecture, and the Wave client, just like there's a difference between SMTP/IMAP and Outlook (vs Gmail). If the UI is not streamlined for a particular use case, then perhaps other clients can be designed which leverage Wave infrastructure, but provide a more optimal experience for a given problem space.
- Ray Cromwell
Jérôme, in my view not even email obliges people to respond only to the most recent email in the thread. Maybe Wave should always show a compressed "timeline" view of every event. Perhaps a very zoomed-out icon of the whole wave in the upper-left corner of the wave, showing its blip structure, nesting, etc., with hotspots everywhere there's a change you haven't read yet. To the right of...
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- Daniel Dulitz
Google Wave ne işinize yaradı?
berkay sözbilir., Durukan Duru, Hülya Apaydın and 7 other people liked this
hiçbir işime yaramadı. çünkü sevmedim.
- Berat Çarşı
hiçbir işe yaramadı artı bir..
- Necdet (nec) Terkes
1 defa girdim google wave e, o da kayıt olduğumda
- irfan ÖZTÜRK
inan aynı şeyi ben soracaktım.. aktif ve/veya düzenli olarak kullanan var mı hiç?
- Can Koklu
Henüz devamlı kullanmam için gerekli, kritik kullanıcı sayısı eşiğini geçemedi, oldukça faydalı olacağını düşünüyorum ama daha erken
- Y.Emre GÜZER
biraz kalabalıklaşsa belki bi işe yarar. ama arayüz kullanışlı gözüküyor ama google basitliğinde değil o yüzden sevemedik sanırım. zamanla alışılır gibime geliyor.
- Recep Alparslan Ceylan
Bu yavaşlık ve hantallığıyla pek bir işe yaramasını bekleyemiyorum. Ama sistem ve kullanıcılar oturduğunda işin yüzü değişecek bence de.
- Hakan Deryal
dağ fare doğurdu
- Eşref Atak
ekip toplantıları daha eğlenceli oldu
- Ibrahim OZTURKCAN
yaramadı çünkü yok :(
- Julien
Ben arada girip bakıyorum, sadece bakıyorum.
- İsmail Emrah Demirayak
Herşey çok güzel olacak.
- Mert Kızılırmak
Julien, email adresini ver, hemen davetiye link'i atim istersen.
- Sarper Sılaoğlu
Biraz sabir, biraz sabir.. :)
- Ozkan Altuner
Ayrı bir servis yerine email entegre bir servis olursa o zaman çok daha kullanışlı olacaktır diye düşünüyorum.
- Metin Kahraman
gökten cumhur[at]sinerjiinteraktif.com a bir davetiye düşse ne güzel olurdu :)
- cumhur onat
hiçbi işime yaramadı! gereksiz... ŞİMDİLİK :)
- Margo
evet metin kahramana katılıyorum. sanırım hepsi bir arada olması lazım.
- Recep Alparslan Ceylan
cumhur davetiye gönderdim.
- Berat Çarşı
cumhur onat a benden bir davetiye gitti :)
- Vural Tuna
hiç bi halta yaramadı.. belki ilerde ..
- morkedipatisi
8 davetiye var.
- Ibrahim OZTURKCAN
Sanırım Wave, Wave hakkında hype yaratmak için yaratılmış zira Wave'ime baktığımda gördüğüm tek şey "bunu nasıl kullanırız? bu nasıl bişi? buralarda nasıl varolunur? wave nedir? wave nereye kadar wave de wave" şeklinde.
- Burak "cyrus" Bayburtlu
@berat @vural , çok teşekkürler ama henüz bir mail gelmedi, geç geliyor olsa gerek..
- cumhur onat
ilersi için umut vaadedici.. Proje yönetimini mesela sadece bu sistem üzerinden yürütebilirsiniz. Tamamen kapalı bir şekilde . Basecamp'ten iyi diyebilirim kısaca :)
- Bahadır Çiftci(Pisihole)
ben de deniyim o zaman... jaksoy[at]gmail.com a bir davetiye düşse ne güzel olurdu ;) zavallı fransız da denese :)
- Julien
chat log gibi log tuttugu icin geyik yaparken ise yariyor, "neye gulmustuk" diye donup bakiyorum arada.
- Sets Turan
Bir kez girdim. Daha kullanmışlığım yok...
- Elif Alptekin
Whiteboard, collaboration, widget share, replay gibi ozellikleri sayesinde ayriliyor. Klasik e-mail gibi dusunmemek lazim
- Ozkan Altuner
donanım uyumsuz benim için. ram yetmiyor gayet.
- Anil "kucukadam" Yeni
Ben proje yönetimi için google ile günahımı paylaşmam açıkçası. Mail ve IM trafiğini son damlasına kadar takip eden bir sistem üzerinden proje yönetimi yapmanın yanlış olduğunu düşünmekle birlikte, zaten bunun için şirket içinde OneNote kullanıyorduk. Wave in lansmanının ilk 5 dk.sını dinlediğimde herhalde bir devrim yaptılar diye düşünürken ortaya çıkan ürünü görünce sadece bir...
more...
- Tarık Kranda
Alpha tester'ı olduğum bir browser'ın tester ve developerlara özel forumunun yerine geçmek üzere, sadece biraz daha performanslı çalışmasını bekliyoruz..
- Barış Evren Erdoğan
Denedim.. :) anlık yazışmayı sevdim. Diğer türlü bir faydası dokunmadı
- Ömer ŞEHAP
Hiçbir işe yaramadığı söylenmiş miydi?
- Sinto Sinop
daha bilmiyom ki :)
- NIL OZCANSEN
Barış, fonksiyon olarak çok rahat alır da.. performans düzelmeden kullanacağımı hatta kullanabileceğimi sanmıyorum mesela. Proje yönetimi için Google Wave.. çok güzel başka araçlar var, proje yönetimi dediğimiz şey proje tartışması olsa neyse de :)
- Burak "cyrus" Bayburtlu
Mister @Sarper , Çok mersi beaucoup. Gerçekten. Mİnettarım.
- Julien
Cumhur, davetiyeler geç geliyor. "Invitations will not be sent immediately. We have a lot of stamps to lick. " açıklaması yapıyor wave :)
- Vural Tuna
bence şimdilik sadece pole uygulaması işe yarar gibi, o sayede haftasonu organizasyonlarında kimler var kimler yok hemencecik ortaya çıkabiliyor, tabi tüm arkadaşların wave hesabı olması şartıyla
- Onur Vural
Ben sadece tartışma konusuna değinmiştim, yoksa proje yönetimi en azınan şimdilik Wave'in harcı değil tabii kİ (:
- Barış Evren Erdoğan
Proje toplantı notlarının tek noktada toplanması diyebiliriz:)
- Tarık Kranda
du bi daha girip bakayım... (:
- sy
Yok abi zaten o sana değildi, bi sürü insan "proje yönetimi" demiş, pardon :)
- Burak "cyrus" Bayburtlu
aha invite hakkım oluşmuş, dağıtayım hemen belki birilerinin işine yarar...
- sy
Proje yönetimi diyen, demekle de yetinmeyip Wave'i bu iş için ultra aktif kullanan biriyim. Öncelikle Wave daha yeni 1 platform. Adamlar neler yapacaklarını söylediler, girip bakıp bu muymuş diyip kapatan ve bununla da yetinmeyip her gördüğü ortamda bu eksik görüşlerini dile getiren arkadaşlara sevgiler, azıcık sabır edin, ürün bir bitsin, sonra söylediklerinizi geri almak zorunda...
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- gcg
cözemedik ki ne ise yarradigini. bir cözsek ne halt oldugunu belki ise yarayacak. karman curman birsey. bu kadarda karisik komplike yapilmaz ki kardesim bi olay.
- Cagdas Seichter
Google senede 100 proje çıkarır, sadece 1 ya da 2 tanesi tutar. Wave kalan 98'e giriyor.
- Mustafa Ozan Uysal
Google wave çok tutacak. Daha kıymetini anlayamadınız.
- Seçkin Arıcı
hiç bir işime yaramadı :)
- ems
ubit olarak bizim cok isimize yaradi. biz herbiri en az 3 kisilik proje gruplarindan olusan toplam 15-20 kisilik bir ekibiz. Stajyerler ve yari zamanlilar sürekli degistigi icin tam sayiyi bilemiyorum. Toplantilarda aldigimiz tüm proje notlarini ve daha sonraki yazismalarimizi artik Wave üzerinden yapiyoruz. Email'ler icerisinde aramaktansa bu daha kolay oluyor. Ayrica tüm ofis olarak geyik geyik anketler yapip moralleri düzeltmek adina da iyi oluyor :)
- HasanCivelek
dursun kenarda gün gelir lazım olur :p
- Bekir Tosun
Bence proje yönetiminin ne olduğunu daha doğru kavramak gerekiyor. Tek bir noktada bilgi paylaşımı amacıyla kullanılan bir araç herhangi bir PM aracının yerini alamaz. İletişim halinde olmak != proje yönetimi. Safhaların sadece birinde kullanılabilen yardımcı bir araç olmaktan öteye geçemeyecektir. Tüm bunlarla birlikte, herhangi bir şirket çalışmamın google gibi loglama yapan bir firmanın aracı üzerinden yapılmasını saçma buluyorum. Herkesin kendi bileceği iş tabiki.
- Tarık Kranda
prestijimi arttırdı. çeşitli mecralarda, benim gugıl veyvim var diye caka sattım.
- Parfe
içerik/dokuman/rapor ekleme ve gantt diyagramı çizme gibi bir özelliği olsa, hatta dokumanlar içinde canlı kameralara baglanma gibi bir özellik olsa, proje yönetimi için kullanılabilir. (MSProject+Sharepoint+OneNote'u bu iş için kullanıyorlar) Ama şu an için sadece bir geyik kapısı. Daha fazlasını görmedim.
- Acharad-Sami-
biraz daha customize yapıya geçebilirse yararlılığı geliştirilebilir..
- mehmet t. akalın
aa benim wave hesabım vardı dimi =))) du bi bakayım ya iyi hatırladım..i işime yaramadı valla...ama yaramayacağını da düşünmüyorum acıkcası..google yaptıysa bi bildiği vardır =)
- onur yıldız
Sadece kayıt olurken girdim, bi daha da bakmadım... Şifremi bile unuttum sanırım :)
- emre h.
hiç bir halta yaramadı
- Gabriela Olaru
Arkadaşlar burada nasıl profesyonel şekilde kullanıldığına dair örnekler var. http://mashable.com/2009...
- Eğitişim Blog
Var. Ama kullanmıyorum. Yani pek bir işime yaradığı yok sanırım.
- Müjdat Korkmaz
dont wave with us
- sunipeyk
Bayağı malzeme çıktı ama benim için wave, çok yavaş çalışan potansiyeli yüksek bir zaman kaybı (şu an için)
- Burak "cyrus" Bayburtlu
Açıkcası pek ilgilenemedim,liste boş... ama gizli cevherler barındıryorsa eğer, gün geçtikçe daha da işime yarabilir.. ama sorunun cevabı.. Şu anlık pek bir işe yaramadı...
- Tolga Şişmanoğlu
bom boş bir şey...
- Koray Gülpınr | yihhu.com
sevmedim
- Sercan Virlan
hiç bir işe yaramadı opera'dan giremiyorum zaten :)
- Oguzcan Sahin
oraya sadece google crome'dan girilir tamammı:)))
- adrina
İşim yok bir de Chrome mu kullanacağım?
- Burak "cyrus" Bayburtlu
@adrina chromada chrome os ile girilir dimi :)
- Ufuk Doganca
Mac olanlar safari kullansın tabi:)))))
- adrina
laf olsun torba dolsun
- cisemm
:) neden mac olanlara ayrıcalık onlarda silsin chrome os kursun =)
- Ufuk Doganca
Öğrenmek istediğim diller listesi:
1- Scala
- Onur Gündüz
2- Haskell
- Onur Gündüz
3- Erlang
- Onur Gündüz
4- Prolog
- Onur Gündüz
5- Japonca
- Onur Gündüz
6- Latince
- Onur Gündüz
7- Osmanlıca
- Onur Gündüz
latince biliyo musun :) ya ben eski yunanca ve latince çok öğrenmek istiyorum. osmanlica da ayni şekilde, o eski yazilardan falan yazmak istiyorum. bizim asil tipografimiz, kültürümüz oradan çikar yahu. tünelde bi mekan var mesela, orada böyle çok eski levhalar falan var. osmanli döneminden kalma, eski yaziyla .. ve hakkaten neden bizim roma harfleriyle doğru düzgün tipografi sanati...
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- Onur Gündüz
osmanlıca bilmek istemezsin ya, imanım gevredi okuyana kadar.
- Ezgi Genç
gerçi deli gibi zor değil okuması ama grameri inanılmaz zor. bir kitap var, osmanlıca for dummies gibi bi şey (: onun yazarını bulup yazarım sana. çok kolay ona okumak ama gramerini boşverceksin, yani yazamıcaksın.
- Ezgi Genç
acı olan şey türkiye'de hala okunmamış 17 milyon eski yazı belgenin olması. gerçekten okuması zevkli, bulmaca gibi oluyo bi süre sonra (:
- Ezgi Genç
osmanlıca o kadar önemliki bu ülke için. hiç çanakkale savaşından kalan teçhizat, levhalar, görsel malzemeye vs. rastladınız mı, deriden mesela bi ara tüm konsepti çanakkale savaşina bağlamişti. hala öyle mi bilemiyorum uzun süredir deridenden alişveriş yapamadiğimdan :p o dönemin tüm görsel çalişmalarina hayranim. yazilari anlamak da değil, görüntüsüne aşiğim yani. mesela bir arkadaşim...
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- Onur Gündüz
mesela fffound diye site var ya, sitede böyle metinleri 2 column yapmişlar. solda ingilizce sağda japonca çikiyor. hakkaten garip elit bi üslup, güzel de duruyor japonca hiç bilmesen de yani, kendini böyle ütü kullanma kılavuzuna bakıyomuş gibi hissediyosun :p ben aynı görüntüyü solda fransızca sağda eski osmanlıca şeklinde görmek isterdim. neden böyle isterdim onu da bilemedim. ama eminim güzel bi görüntü ve üslup olurdu.
- Onur Gündüz
meriç öğrenmek istediğin programlama dilleri de falso senin :p
- Onur Gündüz
eğer latinceye çok yaklaşmak istiyorsanız romence öğrenin. latinceye en yakın dildir kendileri
- irfan ÖZTÜRK
Fransızca AND C# OR Python :)
- Acharad-Sami-
programlama dillerini öğrenmek çok daha basit aslinda. hiç değilse 1'den fazla kişiyle konuşmuyorsun :p ne desen anliyor bilgisayar :) programlama dili öğrenmenin zekayla, matematikle bir ilgisi olduğunu zannetmiyorum. iyi bir edebiyatçi anasini ağlatir. ama... :) mesela programlama dili öğrenmek değil programlama yapabilmek için gerekli olan, zaten türkiye'deki bir çok programcinin...
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- Onur Gündüz
tuvalette sözlük okumak noktasina gelebilirim her an, şu an tuvalette sadece single-tasking çalişiyorum :p
- Onur Gündüz
Aslında bu dilleri öğrenmek istememin sebepleri var. Mesela C# ı asp.net için düşünüyorum. Zira Sharepoint 2010 gibi Google Wave 'in kurumsal versiyonu gibi olabilen güçlü CMS'leri kodlayabilmek [CMS derken Joomla gibi birşeyden bahsetmiyorum tabi, sürüm takibi, onay takibi, personel puantajı,sipariş süreçlemesi vs. gibi gelişmiş işler] ve okuduğum bölüm itibariyle süreçleme ve...
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- Acharad-Sami-
Sami ben senin Python ile mucizeler yaratacağını düşünüyorum :)
- Onur Gündüz
Tabi bir yerden başlamak lazım :)
- Acharad-Sami-
Appengine'den başla: http://appengine.google.com/
- Onur Gündüz
Getting Started'dan başladım, bu arada Fransızca'ya devam :D Appengine est la Option très bien pour programmation, merci beaucoup :) (Rosetta Stone sağolsun)
- Acharad-Sami-
Osmanlica'yi zorunlu olarak ogrendim ben de, okuyabiliyorum ama yazamiyorum. :) Bulmaca cozmek gibiydi ogrenirken. Ingilizce'yi ciddi bir makaleyi rahatlikla yazacak kadar gelistirmek istiyorum (su an o kadar degil.) Programlama dillerine gelirsek Common Lisp ve Haskell ilk sira icin cekisiyorlar.
- Emre Yılmaz
yarışmacı arkadaşlara başarılar diliyo musun Emre? (:
- Ezgi Genç
hayır Ezgi dilemiçöm.
- Emre Yılmaz
philosophy age de konuşulan dil
- anessa
L’onda anomala - http://www.webeconoscenza.net/2009...
Jakala, Esteban™, Roberto and 2 other people liked this
La cosa buffa è che non si dovrebbe discuterne su un blog o su FF, ma dentro Wave stesso!
- l'Ego di Gigi
è vero ma, come scrivi tu, almeno per me, ho ancora troppa poca gente...
- Francesco
@Francesco, dipende dall'uso che ne vuoi fare. Secondo me la modalità social aiuta a rompere il ghiaccio e popolare la lista, ma poi non è detto che con quei contatti userai Wave. Forse, ma forse, si predispone di più a un uso CLUSTERIZZATO
- l'Ego di Gigi
boh, io da "fuori onda" non riesco ancora ad esprimere un giudizio. Per cui mi fido di voi.
- Felter Roberto
Ma mica è fatto per la discussione. Prova a discutere con più di 10 persone :)
- Niki Costantini
giusto, però almeno all'inizio, con la lista contatti desolatamente vuota, ti viene voglia di mollare tutto prima di capire bene almeno cosa è. che poi, quasi certamente virerà verso un uso clusterizzato...
- Francesco
@Niki, infatti, da quello che percepisco inizialmente è più un concorrente di Sharepoint posizionato sul cloud. Quindi gestione progettuale e brainstorming su idee da condividere in cluster o lungo tutto il pianeta.
- l'Ego di Gigi
@Roberto non demordere, arriverà anche per te questo battesimo agognato :-)
- l'Ego di Gigi
gigi, ci vorrà un po' credo, visto che non ho ancora chiesto l'invito a nessuno. E' il fatto di avere una ulteriore mail, non potevano attivarlo sulla gmail classica?
- Felter Roberto
Esatto Gigi, anche se sostituirei la "o" con la "e": dee da condividere in cluster E lungo tutto il pianeta.
- Niki Costantini
Roberto, cosi' a caldo, non credo
- l'Ego di Gigi
from fftogo
@Roberto secondo me e' voluto
- l'Ego di Gigi
from fftogo
appunto, tu google vuoi rifilarmi un'altra mail, e io mi fermo un attimo. Che dici Google, facciamo cambio? tu mi dai una nuova mail e io ti do una PEC? ci stai? :) o preferisci una CEC-PAC? o quelle dell'INPS o dell'ACI?
- Felter Roberto
LOL
- l'Ego di Gigi
ancora non sono riuscito ad avere invito, però dal post mi son fatto un'idea del possibile potenziale.
- Andrea Contino
Andrea, è un concorrente di Sharepoint ma con un altro approccio. Diciamo che Sharepoint nasce dentro l'architettura IT dell'azienda e si inebria di funzioni sociali. Wave nasce dal web sociale per infilarsi dentro i progetti dell'azienda. A volte sono troppo minimalista :-)
- l'Ego di Gigi
Wow, sto provando via mobile :-)
- l'Ego di Gigi
io insisto che su wave molto popolate e' quasi ingestibile, da quando ho scritto il commento a quando e' apparso ho fatto a tempo a prendere una spedizione, aprire la scatola, e fumarmi una sigaretta. ci vuole una cloud anche per i client? -.-
- Elena Franco (DElyMyth)
e poi, vabbè son robe tecniche, ma con un proxy aziendale, tutti quegli script mica passano facilmente.
- l'Ego di Gigi
Bel post Gigi, anche più interessante di molti americanes.
- Vincio
Grazie @Vincio, è ancora un po' superficiale. Appena mi addentro un po' di più proverò ad esplorare possibili campi applicativi.
- l'Ego di Gigi
Bel post complimenti e l'immagine di uno Sharepoint social, posizionato su cloud fotografa alla perfezione quello che wave potrebbe/dovrebbe diventare.
- Francesco Marconi
On my whiteboard is "battlefronts." IE, who in the tech industry is taking over the castle. Who do you think is? Join me live:
Jannifer @wordsforliving, Jim Connolly, Susan Beebe and 11 other people liked this
IE, Apple is taking over the castle from Nokia in the mobile phone space. Twitter is making a strong move on the social networking castle that Facebook owns.
- Robert Scoble
Ustream and Blip.tv are trying to get into YouTube's castle but keep getting shut out.
- Robert Scoble
Is Twitter storming Facebook's castle or is facebook storming Twitter's?
- Peter Kelley
Peter: I think Facebook is losing castle rooms to Twitter and it pisses Facebook off.
- Robert Scoble
Zoho and Google are trying to take ground away from Microsoft Office.
- Robert Scoble
Also is Mahalo building their own castle or storming someone elses?
- Peter Kelley
twitter are the horde slowly taking over the outlying areas of facebooks domain
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
So is SocialText and Atlassian and Jive and others.
- Robert Scoble
apple is going to be losing ground to both android and pre on different slices of turf IMO
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
FIOS is taking over cable and satellite. My iPhone is making my Windows desktop irrelevant.
- Brett Nordquist
Gowalla is taking BrightKite's castle
- Peter Kelley
Anyway, the question is, where do you see entrenched "winners" under attack by new companies or ideas.
- Robert Scoble
Peter: FourSquare is doing a better job of doing that than Gowalla is.
- Robert Scoble
FIOS is a non-issue until they lose the "higher market" feel - i.e. it won't be in my working class neighborhood for another 2 years
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Wordpress is storming the Blogger castle.
- Brett Nordquist
But Gowalla is in the game.
- Robert Scoble
Louis Gray is taking over the Robert Scoble castle.
- Cristo
Anything related to keeping data tied to a physical location is dead. Freedom of mobility has stormed the castle and is now dancing in the courtyard as it burns down around it.
- Adrian Pike
Android from the iPhone, in the next 2 years
- Christian Burns
from iPhone
gowalla has just elbowed both twitter and foursquare out of the spot at the gate that is brightkyt
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bing to Google
- Ankush Narula
from iPhone
Brett: Wordpress is almost an entrenched player now. Squarespace is the one trying to take away Wordpress share, isn't it?
- Robert Scoble
Christian: I agree.
- Robert Scoble
squarespace is showing wordpress how to be a better hosted service -- *with their own product!*
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ankush: I don't agree that Bing is really disrupting Google that much yet. It's a nice thought, though, and it is a fun fight to watch, so I agree there.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I still see a lot of Blogger blogs, but you're right. SquareSpace is making a big move.
- Brett Nordquist
this is why i like friendfeed
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Rackspace is taking place of Amazon in hosting :)
- ashish
Spotify trying to sneak up on iTunes/Amazon/Pandora
- Ankush Narula
from iPhone
In location services I see Yelp making big moves into a place that Google owns right now, at least in my mind.
- Robert Scoble
Ashish: shhhhh.
- Robert Scoble
We need something to take a bit away from WordPress - too much insecurity stuff in the press recently
- Jalada
Ankush: we think alike, I had that on my whiteboard already.
- Robert Scoble
rackspace still has a pricing misconception demon to shake loose
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Are Wordpress and Drupal different castles?
- Peter Kelley
I love the cool ads on free squarespace blogs. Makes me think of blogspot in 2002
- Christian Burns
from iPhone
I wish Rackspace would give me a huge amount of storage to host my blog, pictures and music, but make it affordable and easy to access from any device with internet.
- Brett Nordquist
drupal is being stormed by mindtouch - now that is a sleeper-awakening fight
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Brett: how is http://rackspacecloud.com not doing just that?
- Robert Scoble
Google is moving against Twitter by adding contextual streams to web pages via Scoble's favorite tool: SideWiki
- Ankush Narula
from iPhone
Mike: that's an interesting one. I don't watch mindtouch that much, I should do an interview with them.
- Robert Scoble
@bear: On Intranets or more generally, there are a lot of Drupal sites out there
- Peter Kelley
Robert: Checking that out now. Did not know about it.
- Brett Nordquist
Ankush: I don't agree there, but that's one to put on the board as a potential disrupter.
- Robert Scoble
Windows Mobile 6.5 was found dead in the moat.
- Brett Nordquist
peter - on the intranets - but that means they will bust out when the open-source side catches up with what they have commercially developed
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
robert - mindtouch is moving in all the right places and in the proper direction ;)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert: give it a year regarding Bing -MS know how to commoditized better than anyone (as u know!)
- Ankush Narula
from iPhone
Got Brizzly on your whiteboard? I think they're up to something
- Jalada
First you have to define who's in the castle that is being taken over.
- Alex Scoble
yea, brizzly is looking at their feature set getting over shadowed by twitter doing a "me also" update
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jalada: I need a whole whiteboard on Twitter clients. Damn, did you see Tweetie 2.0 yet? You should, it's going to take over the iPhone app space for Twitter clients.
- Robert Scoble
Mike: it will be interesting to see what Seesmic does about Tweetie 2.0.
- Robert Scoble
Oh, Tumblr and Posterous are also disrupting Wordpress and Blogger.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Seen the coverage of it. Can't wait to get my hands on it. We're re-engineering our iPhone app at Twitterfall too, it's sure to give us some ideas ;-)
- Jalada
robert - :/ yea
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
VMWare/Spring Source are taking over the RedHat/JBoss castle
- Peter Kelley
For that matter what about threadsy? They are surely capable of disrupting the webmail market if marketed properly
- Ankush Narula
from iPhone
Posterous is fantastic and i'm using it to replace Flickr in some areas.
- Brett Nordquist
I predict tumblr and posterous merging by the end of the year - they are just too awesome to fight each other
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ankush: I heard threadsy had some performance issues, have they been ironed out?
- Jalada
Microsoft Office Web tries bringing in the battering rams, but isnt doing much right now against the heavily fortified walls of Google Docs
- Kevin Traver
Mike: I have some ideas, but they require you guys to become curation tool before Tweetie gets there.
- Robert Scoble
Last.FM is storming the Pandora castle.
- Brett Nordquist
glassfish+(scala,jpython,jruby) is owning the bare RoR scene
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Kevin, I see Google Docs as breaking over the castle wall into Microsoft territory right about now, actually. :-)
- Robert Scoble
robert - yes, we need to become the goto place for both current and historical data flow
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Cloud computing is like a fog that's obscuring the view between castles. When the fog lifts, no telling whose castle will be left standing and who will be crushed.
- Paul Blasman
from iPhone
But Microsoft's castle is so big they still aren't worried. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Paul: Cloud Computing is just a tool to get over the wall. :-)
- Robert Scoble
bear - I think Groovy/Grails are doing a better job of storming the ROR castle and many other web framework castles besides
- Peter Kelley
cloudcomputing allows you to take the battle off the ground and just go *around* the others
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert: It's a magical tool that everyone says is great, but then find it's too small to get over big walls.
- Jalada
peter - hmm, then i'm not watching enough Groovy/Grails shops to get wind of that - i'll have to adjust
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
is Netflix on your whiteboard?
- Brett Nordquist
Brett: no, but it is now.
- Robert Scoble
rssCloud/Hubbub? Not companies though...
- Jalada
Jalada: that's like Cloud Computing: a tool to help you get over the wall.
- Robert Scoble
jalada - IMO that's a minor battle between what type of pipe to use - only internet plumbers are worried about that
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert: Redbox is pretty cool too. Used it before?
- Brett Nordquist
Brett: No, and I haven't used Roxio yet either.
- Robert Scoble
Google Analytics is taking over Omniture (maybe already taken over going by Omniture's Q1 earnings)
- MadhuIyer
One night DVD rentals for a buck. Red Box always seems busy no matter where I see them.
- Brett Nordquist
Redbox is for those that don't know what's good for them
- Christian Burns
from iPhone
Oh and Fake Carol Bartz taking over Fake Steve Jobs
- MadhuIyer
Madhulyer: oh, I SO agree with that!
- Robert Scoble
verizon realizing before at&t that limits on the data flow just hampers profit increases
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Although @shitmydadsays is kicking both of their asses.
- Robert Scoble
according to my kids, the iPod Touch is replacing the Nintendo DS
- Brett Nordquist
I'm liking where Boxee is going with webtv. could be what appletv had hoped to be.
- michael sean wright
Boxee taking over tivo?
- ashish
Brett: I agree with them, it's certainly a threat Nintendo/Sony need to tackle
- Jalada
Yeah, Boxee and Bittorrent are definitely changing TV for a new generation.
- Robert Scoble
Renting physical media is not going to put a crack in anyone' wall.
- Paul Blasman
from iPhone
Jalada: This year we'll spend more in App Store games from Apple than games from Nintendo.
- Brett Nordquist
Hulu is taking over paid cable
- Christian Burns
from iPhone
Google's archers try to fend off some incoming twitter boats
- Kevin Traver
but this proves to be difficult because the water in the moat is very unstable due to Google Waves
- Kevin Traver
Brett: us too. And Xbox.
- Robert Scoble
Kevin: Google Wave is super slow for me today. And totally unusable. I don't know about people who like it. I think they are all nerds. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Google Wave is to far out on the horizon - it still has a chance to sink itself or run up on the reef of complicated-UI
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
This Friendfeed thread is taking over my social life!
- Brett Nordquist
I think they're handing out a new Wave (aha..) of invites today, slowly.
- Jalada
FriendFeed will take over something I hope
- Jay
Robert - yep, wave is for early adopter nerds
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Jay: Can it still do that now it belongs in Facebook's castle?
- Jalada
Google Wave is just taking over people's ability of effectiveness...
- MadhuIyer
Jalada: How about..? FriendFeed should take over everyone's homepage.
- Jay
FriendFeed is a realm that joined the Facebook Castle so they could get some troops garrisoned inside their operation
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
This castle analogy is brilliant
- Jalada
Mike: gearing up for pushing Twitter back over the wall. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Some of Google's guards cautiously watch Wolfram|Alpha in the distant horizon.
- Kevin Traver
Robert - yea, they saw the oncoming battle and decided to join forces
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
/me wonders if Robert has enough new ideas for interviews and articles yet
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Yeah, I was just checking to see if there was some wall breach happening that I wasn't familiar with.
- Robert Scoble
Kevin - and laugh
- Peter Kelley
some of these battles are good ol' "dig under the walls and let it slowly collapse" fights, while others are storm-the-gates assaults
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert: At WordCamp Seattle two weeks ago, I was surprised to hear how many people were still on blogging platforms other than Wordpress. Assumed everyone was on WP already.
- Brett Nordquist
Brett: Yeah, that's wacky. What were the most popular non-Wordpress ones? Any idea why they are still on those?
- Robert Scoble
Brett - at PodCamp Philly last weekend almost everyone was asking how to use WordPress and if they should move from Blogger to WP (amongst the new blogger scene)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Adobe Flash coming under attack from HTML/5 if the major players will stop their HTML/5 codec bickering. For example a Safari plugin to switch YouTube Video from Flash to Apple H.264 http://bit.ly/JlWVO
- Ed Millard
Robert: almost all I spoke with were on Blogger. A few on Typepad and many had created websites that were out-of-date.
- Brett Nordquist
Mike: I'm not surprised. Maybe still too difficult to roll your own WP install?
- Brett Nordquist
Ed - good one - yea, if the HTML/5 scene doesn't stop fighting they are going to cede all that work to Flash
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Brett - some of that plus also the latest security issues were a big concern
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Mike: Good point about security. Lots of talk about that as well. Still too many hurdles for the less technical.
- Brett Nordquist
Brett - agreed - I was pointing everyone to hosted solutions by asking them the question: Do you *really* want to become a SysAdmin as well as a blogger?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Scobleizer's SUL taking over Twitter's SUL
- MadhuIyer
here's a challenge - let's talk about who's taking over what castle and *not* mention Twitter
- Dave Hodson
Madhulyer - and also true celeb's twitter lists taking over both of those SUL's
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Dave, wasn't Twitter mentioned in the first comment?
- Cristo
@Cristo - yup. I have Twitter fatigue; there must be other castles to storm out there
- Dave Hodson
Dave, I think I have castle storming fatigue.
- Cristo
I'm going to need some buffs if there's more castles to storm today.
- Brett Nordquist
/me puts down a fish feast and calls out for a table
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
I think the Twitter fatigue is due to the fact that people constantly reference it. Sure it is growing, super cool, the-best-thing-eva, but what *else* is out there? How about the impact that a service like Aardvark is having/not having on Yelp for example?
- Dave Hodson
Dave: fair enough but let's see your ideas for castles being stormed that don't include the T-word anywhere? :-)
- Robert Scoble
@Scoble - as I said, Aardvark and Yelp. I've been using Aardvark for a while now and I think they might be on to something.
- Dave Hodson
Dave: that's actually why I started this post, to see if there's any other battlefronts out there. Turns out there are. As to Yelp: I don't see @vark as a @yelp killer. I'm not even sure they are battling for the same thing. Most of the questions on @vark that I get have nothing to do with restaurants or places or businesses.
- Robert Scoble
I think @vark could disrupt Yahoo or Google search, though, and take away some revenue.
- Robert Scoble
@Scoble - questions really depend on what you sign up for - I asked a question the other day about a good/quick place to eat near the Fillmore in SF and got several good replies right away. Yelp wouldn't really have helped me there. Plus the new iPhone app is pretty good. And not to be a total fanboy, but I really like the IM integration.
- Dave Hodson
Yeah, good point. I do love @vark, don't get me wrong.
- Robert Scoble
Surprised nobody mentioned the Kindle
- Brett Nordquist
Brett: good point!
- Robert Scoble
that atari thing my neighbours have is taking over my lightbrite.
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Brett - or the new tablets coming out (and not the apple one either!)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Mike, who is making the new tablets? I've not heard much then.
- Brett Nordquist
Brett: there are a couple already out in EU by Archos. Gateway's tablet PC was leaked and there is the hopefully coming Crunchpad. Those are just off the top of my head
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Chrome is taking over someones castle. im not sure if its ie or Firefox
- Anthony Feint
How about on the SSD front, OCZ Vertex line vs Intel X25's
- Joe Hanink
Skype, cell and Google Voice are taking over traditional telco phone landline castle
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
Thanks for all the MindTouch mentions folks. Scoble, happy to talk again. It's been quite a while. Ping me and let's set something up. Happy to meet up when I'm in your neighborhood again.
- Roebot
Scoble, more on MindTouch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch... and also watch some of the demos to the right of the page here: http://www.mindtouch.com/Solutio...
- Roebot
Meanwhile, MySpace is M.I.A. and no one gives a shizzle!
- Danny Minick
What technologies would you classify as being "content collaboration tools?" Was asked to give a talk on that.
MLx and Sir Shuping liked this
In addition to drupalish sites, how about blogs that have multiple authors? Wikis of course, but you already know that as the queen of http://www.libsuccess.org
- Joe
Google Docs, Zoho, Basecamp, wikis generally
- D0r0th34
lol! Yes, definitely multi-user blogs. Also things like Google Docs. Shame I don't already have a Google Wave invite. ;-)
- Meredith
etherpad.com (that's what they use at the local library SIG meetings I go to.)
- valalalala lala la la
saw this earlier today: http://lifehacker.com/5373339...
- D0r0th34
Awesome! Thanks Dorothea! Haven't gotten into my feeds yet today. Lifehacker is reading my mind. :)
- Meredith
any time :)
- D0r0th34
Twiddla, bubbl.us, Vyew, Dabbleboard, mindmeister, Wridea
- Bobbi Newman
possibly screenshare apps like Dimdim or Yuuguu?
- D0r0th34
hate to say it, but people are still using email. with attached word docs, even! (this perhaps should be the evil to which all these awesome things are compared.)
- Elaine Nelson
Could shared, common tags be called content collaboration? It's a method, not a tool, but still...
- MLx
All of the above + MS SharePoint
- Connie Crosby
I was going to say something similar to Marianne. It's not full on content collaboration, but curating a collection through delicious can be very helpful for building a set of resources that might become part of a final content piece. The versatility - ability to RSS-feed the resources to Friendfeed or wherever - makes it very convenient.
- Laura Norvig
Internet explorer 6 ya karsi firmalarca bi karsi durus yapma vakti geldi artik...
Furkan Tunalı, Aykut Önen, İbrahim Uzun [ j ] and 2 other people liked this
bence gidip dövelim developerlarını
- Alex
Keske =) ama bilmiyorum. Yani kalkip da ie6 ye gore yapmiyoruz haci desek musteri tamam dese bu seferde musterinin musterisi konusacak... sonsuz dongu.
- ArmaN ACAR
from Android
microsoft 2014'e kadar destek verecekmiş ie6'ya
- Hakan İyice
microsofttaki adamları dövelim cidden. desteğinizi kaldırın kimse ie6 kullanamasın mecburi update olsun diyelim
- Alex
2014 çoook uzun bi zaman... bi oluru yok mu bunun? 2010 yapsak şunu?
- Melih Mutlu
microsoft ie6 desteğini bitir, update mecburi olsun. sen kazan, tasarımcı kazansın, müşteri kazansın
- Hakan İyice
Xp desteği de o zamana kadar sürecek ondan dolayı 2014 sanırım.
- Aquacultural (Mert)
ekonomiye can ver microsoft
- Alex
lanet olsun ki bu nasıl bir mantıktır. madem kullanıyorlar destekleyelim. ulan destekleme. sen güncelleme paketleri yayınlıyorsun deli gibi. zahmet edip update e basıversinler. madem eski teknolojisi manyağısınız gidin siyah beyaz televizyon izleyin.
- ArmaN ACAR
ie 6 iyidir, böylece neyi doğru yaptığınızı görürsünüz :P , ie 6 kötü gösteriyorsa doğru yoldasınız demektir :P
- sunipeyk
internet explorer 6 insanin kendine yakisa... yok ya. degildi oyle.
- Ferdi (enemy) Karacan
2014'e kadar destek verecek olabilir ama yavaş yavaş MS kendi web tabanlı ürünlerini IE6 destekli olmaktan çıkarıyor. Mesela Sharepoint 2010'da Firefox desteği gelirken IE6 desteği kaldırılıyor.
- Evren AYAN
onlar da ie 6 ya gore ayarlayamamıslardır sistemi ondandır sharepoint te :D
- Alex
Microsoft, IE7 veya IE8'in WGA'sını kaldırarak IE6 kullanıcılarına güncelletse fena olmayacak. Yoksa 4 büyük alternatifi (Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera) önersin.
- OnurT
ne degisirki? onun yerine ie 6 kullanicilarina karsi bi durus sergilemek daha mantikli gibi gibi : ))
- Faruk Alicioglu
Birde bunu deneyin ve herkese yayın http://code.google.com/intl...
- Furkan Tunalı
Kuruluşlarda bu zor oluyor. Örneğin X Bankasının 30.000 client ı var. Adamların fi tarihinden kalma kendi yazıkları veya satın aldıkları web tabanlı bir uygulama var ve IE6 destekli. Diğer browserlarda sorun çıkarıyor. Bu durumda o firma kolay kolay IE6 dan vazgeçemiyor. Eziyet bize kalıyor. Birde kurumlarda flash versiyon update i için bile IT içinde karar alınması gerekiyor.
- Evren AYAN
chrome frame plugini bunu çözdü. uraşmayın http://bit.ly/qSiNC
- Furkan Tunalı
Furkan amacimiz internet explorer 6 kullandirtmamak. Zaten ie6 disinda bi tarayici kullandirtabilsek. Problem olmayacak =) yoldayim verdigin linke de birazdan bakacagim.
- ArmaN ACAR
from Android
Arman Chrome frame explorer plugini. Explorer içinde chrome çalışıyor.. 6-7-8 uyumlu. Sayfana metatag ve detection kodu eklemen yeterli oluyor.
- Furkan Tunalı
Örnek için http://www.furkantunali.com adresine explorerdan girerek bakabilirsin.
- Furkan Tunalı
force update, forece update, force update diye bağıralım binanın önünde xD
- KURTAY
explorer 8 in explorer 6 dan png dışında bir yeniliği yok zaten. Sil baştan explorerın kalkması lazım. Yada herkesin chrome frame i kurması lazım explorer kullananların. Google wave de explorerda bu zorunlu. Eğer gmailede eklenirse...
- Furkan Tunalı
I like Wave not for what it does (a lot) or for how it is doing it (openly) but rather /because/ it is audacious. Re: http://dashes.com/anil....
Sean Kelly, Felipe Aneudi Campana, Roberto Bonini and 28 other people liked this
One of my big fears in joining Google long after they had already become a success was that I'd find a mature company that was unwilling to do big audacious things and risk failing at them. With products like Wave I'm so pleased to find that those fears were unfounded. The company is still quite nuts sometimes.
- DeWitt Clinton
I think there's selection bias here. There web and internet, as they exist today depend on interoperability of several complex protocols and standards: TCP/IP, DNS, HTTP, HTML, CSS, Javascript, SMTP, IMAP, compression codecs, SSL/TLS cryptography. The client side implementations of all of these have to be near perfect for things to work acceptable, yet they are not weekend projects for...
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- Ray Cromwell
That is, I don't think the Wave Protocol is targeted at people writing RSS emitters and parsers, anymore than IMAP is targeted at them. The Wave Protocol forms a lower layer. The application layers on top (gadgets, robot libraries) provide a much simpler abstraction to developers who want to build services and applications rapidly.
- Ray Cromwell
@Ray - Not to play weekend arm-chair protocol quarterback or anything, but I'm actually among those who would have liked to have seen the Wave protocol built out of Atom/AtomPub/HTML, rather than XMPP/etc, for exactly the reasons that Anil talks about. I understand the rationale behind the current choices, however, and don't think it will make that much difference in the end.
- DeWitt Clinton
It may be audacious but it's also not trying too hard. I asked for a test account, filled out an application and everything, and never heard back. Maybe I didn't grovel enough.
- Dave Winer
IMHO it's a mistake to always choose the path of least resistance, it makes it hard to usher in fundamental improvements when a radical departure approach is sometimes needed. We've reached a point where people want to build everything and anything HTTP+RSS/Atom now. Unless building Wave on Atom solved a fundamental problem, without introducing others, I don't see the justification. The...
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- Ray Cromwell
Yes, Dave. We're hiding it from you specifically. : ) Seriously though, lots (on the order of more marbles than would fit in a subaru forrester) of people asked for an invite. They're going to start going out in earnest in the next month or two. But I'll add you to our developer list and try and get you in earlier.
- DeWitt Clinton
DeWitt can you also add me shakeel.mahate@gmail.com to the developer list? Thanks
- Shakeel Mahate
@Shakeel - you got it.
- DeWitt Clinton
Am I the only one who _doesn't_ think the wave UI is "slick"? I admire the technology, but to be honest using it feels more like Outlook than Gmail, and that's not good. Sometimes it feels like a set of brilliant, innovative features without corresponding higher level innovations. Eg - subscribe to wave-discuss, and then see how quickly your inbox becomes useless. Eventually you figure out how to create a filter & archive, but thats the area that needs innovation (IMHO, of course),
- Nick Lothian
@Nick: I think there's a lot of work remaining to be done on managing the inbox, large waves, and so forth. This was, and remains, a problem with email as well (subscribe to some high-traffic mailing lists, without filtering your inbox, and see how fast it becomes useless in Gmail or Outlook). I understand that the team is acutely aware of this, and are continuing to work on the problem (I suspect this is one of the reasons that they're rolling it out slowly).
- Joel Webber
I think Ray's 100% right on this -- comparing the underlying wave protocols with protocols like RSS is entirely inappropriate. Things like XMPP *are* complex, because they solve a complex problem. As Ray points out, the web wouldn't be better if someone tried to "simplify" TCP/IP -- it just wouldn't work. And just like with TCP, they are creating an open implementation of the protocols for everyone to start from. That's the only way to bootstrap something like this.
- Joel Webber
I put up my take on Wave earlier. Not impressed. http://is.gd/283ph Anyone who thinks Wave will replace e-mail is as delusional as the people who think Chrome will replace Windows.
- Tom Morris
@Tony keep in mind, wave is a federated protocol, so just like IMAP and IRC you can have oodles of different clients in the future. Don't like google's UI? Some will do a native C++ version with a different UI. If you judged email solely on Microsoft's client, or hotmail's UI , it wouldn't be an accurate picture either.
- Ray Cromwell
from Nambu
@Tom - I'm not sure its as bad as all that. I think it would have been better marketed (at first) as a sharepoint competitor, which makes it infinitely better.
- Nick Lothian
@Joel, yeah, I get that. I'd have liked to see some more focus on those core problems rather than the technology and toys. Eg: in the wave video, the things which impress people the most are Rosy & Spelly - neither of which really revolutionize communication.
- Nick Lothian
First impressions of Google Wave | Enterprise Web 2.0 | ZDNet.com - http://blogs.zdnet.com/Hinchcl...
HealingBrush, Nicholas James, Erhan and 11 other people liked this
"The end result is something that comes across as a distinctly sophisticated Web application clearly made up of many elements that sometimes behave somewhat unpredictably precisely because it’s designed to be highly extensible and freeform. Admittedly, my experience was with the developer sandbox for extensions, but this is exactly the intent of Google Wave: to be the center of integrated communication and collaboration in a dynamic and immersive yet safe experience."
- Hutch Carpenter
from Bookmarklet
My expectation: cool for the geeks; overly complex and featured for the masses.
- Chris Rogers
Chris: that is what they said about PC's in 1977. So?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Agree with Chris for at least 3 years of evolution. But someone may figure out how to remove some of the complexity.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
The principles of Google Wave will find their way into our web app experience (on the consumer web and in business apps). Remember, this is just getting going. It's quite early.
- Hutch Carpenter
Robert: and PCs are a lot different now than they were in 1977. PCs from 1977 were too complicated for users and were never adopted by the masses. Google Wave won't either; its descendants will.
- Chris Rogers
How much you wanna bet that Microsoft takes those features and embeds them into SharePoint one day?
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
How much you wanna bet that MSFT takes the Wave protocol and embeds it into sharepint, rewriting the whole server along the way,too.
- Roberto Bonini
Roberto - they'd do well to follow the principles of Google Wave for SharePoint 2013. Whether they actually use the Wave protocol is a different question.
- Hutch Carpenter
I'll be interested to see how much of the Google Wave idea Microsoft includes in SharePoint in the future. We continue to see the trend towards SharePoint with the addition of things like the Office ribbon.
- Ian Rudy
我们要FF还是要这样的产品？？IBM公司日前宣布，其三维会议产品，Virtual Collaboration for Lotus Sametime（VCS），已可以购买。IBM Lotus offers online virtual office world with Sametime 3D - The Boston Globe - http://www.boston.com/busines...
K.D., Lu Tao and HealingBrush liked this
VCS，也被称为Sametime 3D，是通过使用Sametime即时信息系统让不同地点的合作者聚在一个3D空间中的一项服务。相比于Second Life和其他虚拟环境，该产品提供了两个不同的卖点：第一，用户使用真实姓名（没有无法识别的昵称）；第二，该程序存在于公司防火墙后。用户能够使用语音或聊天协议，能够共享演示文稿或在虚拟弹出框中写作。
- kelvin
from Bookmarklet
这个新产品的推出时机非常适合，因为它有利于有效的会议和头脑风暴的进行而无需花费旅行的时间和费用。
- kelvin
超过2500名IBM员工测试了VCS，在需要共同创造的会议中使用它。IBM公司也正在与Vivox公司合作以提高其VoIP的功能，并最终将使用该公司的空间语音技术。插件是需要安装的，但用户也可以在Web界面中使用VCS。
- kelvin
还有人记得 Second Life 吗？？？虚拟已死。
- Hi-iD
这个不太同SL,用户能够使用语音或聊天协议，能够共享演示文稿或在虚拟弹出框中写作。
- kelvin
Google那个叫Lively
- ThenWang
貌似功能有交错，但那些没有注重在交互学习功能文档编辑语音上的同步
- kelvin
Smells Like Teen Age：http://www.cnbeta.com/article...
- Hi-iD
内置的内容可能不止这些 , features what the company is calling a “Twitter-like experience’’ that allows users to “share short, yet critical pieces of information.’’ The new version of Connections will also contain a “wiki’’ application that allows people to create, share, and modify content in real time.
- kelvin
也许不能只看图生义，看看以后的试用情况吧，IBM既然现在要这么做，总是考察了机会的吧 IBM’s Lotus is not alone in adding Web 2.0 features. Microsoft’s SharePoint product, which competes with Lotus, does not have virtual places or micro-blogging, but it has incorporated Web 2.0 features like blogs, wikis, and Facebook-style networking.
- kelvin
我觉得twitter，facebook增强了人们交互的兴趣以及衍生了更多的交互的概念，虚拟现实产品逐步演化改善，嫁接移植，现在推出是一个绝好的机会
- kelvin
如果排除游戏，对大众来说，虚拟现实是计算机和互联网初期兴盛的一种思维，现在已经人们已经意识到网上和网下没有区别了，没有一个现实世界和虚拟世界的区别了。当然对于Lotus有这么一项功能或许能带来一些商业上的效应，毕竟我们还可以看到更荒诞的东西——比如上网偷菜之类，但这只是一个“额外”而已。
- Hi-iD
记得好多年前网上销售就搞得轰轰烈烈了，由于人们的认识还在初步，形成当年的网络泡沫让一大批网络公司倒闭 ，众多商业模式都成了垃圾，而坚持到今天的却成了王者，所以个人觉得真正的进化总是在众多机会和创造性产品相互影响综合情况下创造的
- kelvin
成为“王者”不只是靠“坚持”，凭的是“王道”。
- Hi-iD
什么是王道？
- kelvin
很多公司，特别是小公司创立初期都不可能是一帆风顺的，一般都要经历一两年的惨淡经营才能达到市场的成熟期和占有率以及认可。在困境中坚持的公司总会一直有压力专注思考此行业的各种出路和创造性，既然看准了未来的目标，坚持就是王道了。
- kelvin
Google Wave VS. Microsoft Office 2010 (AKA: Office 14) - Who's Going To Win?
Tyson Key, Amir, yagami and Tapio Kulmala liked this
Both services will be offering online collaboration platforms. Wondering who's going to win this battle. And although Wave is an email platform with social collaboration and Microsoft's new Office is more of a back office package we're still within the collaboration zone.
- Nir Ben Yona
*eyesroll* When are people going to realize that google is not now, nor ever has been in a war to destroy it's competition? Google is the ultimate annoying chess player, always playing to the tie. It sees the value in having competition to drive them to innovate, and to avoid anti-trust. Everyone sees google as this great huge scary thing, but you can't name an instance where google...
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- Matthew DeVries
Matthew: So you're saying Microsoft doesn't see Google as a competitor? (nor Yahoo or AOL).
- Nir Ben Yona
MS may, and MS may be in the business of trying to destroy it's competition. But Google won't destroy MS, because doing so would hurt it in the long run, as dying companies all over the place are starting to realize. "The Big Three" are flogging themselves now for their efforts to destroy AMC, Tucker, Studebaker, DeLorean, Overland, Packard, etc. etc. etc.
- Matthew DeVries
Google seems to sharply understand and study game theory and the Nash equilibrium they find themselves in.
- Matthew DeVries
I don't think a "destruction" is the right term to use, but I'm sure both companies are looking at the long run. Broadening their services into so many areas will guarantee their market survival for many years to come. BTW, do you really think it was just a coincidence that both Google Wave and Google Chrome OS has been announced in contiguous to Microsoft Bing and Office 2010?
- Nir Ben Yona
How/why do you keep removing and reposting that comment, making it strobe my Notifier?
- Matthew DeVries
Office for Big Biz, Wave for everybody else. Big Biz already has gazillions invested in Office, Sharepoint, OCS, and related apps and backend software. Microsoft are going to come along with something else that just plugs into that existing, heavily invested, infrastructure, and Big Biz will lap it up. For me, though, that starts to get really interesting in 10 years time, when Small...
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- Andy Bold
Andy: That's very interesting. I keep hearing from people that Google will always have one step forward by taking Wave into an open source platform for infinite expansion, where as Microsoft's system is closed. Matthew: not sure what are you talking about, but nm.
- Nir Ben Yona
Oh, I see... so Microsoft Office 10 is Open Source?? (just being sarcastic). I see it coming. Google will take the big step forward, and Microsoft will stand behind like now with Bing. From my perspective, Office 10 is yet another Web failure.
- Fernando Parra
I truly believe that Office 10 should have been available for us since 2002. It's not that Microsoft didn't have the knowledge of making it usable back then, they just preferred taking the time and release some other editions in between, and get more money.
- Nir Ben Yona
Why did Google announce Chrome OS this week? Well, of course, Microsoft has a big announcement coming on Monday (I'm embargoed).
Daniel Rowley, Bill Romanos, Charanjit and 216 other people liked this
It'll be interesting to discuss both announcements too, and what they mean for each other.
- Robert Scoble
Is this that internet clipboard that Ray Ozzie demoed a few years ago? Maybe they've completed it!
- Diego Barros
I hope to see something good come out of this. Are they saying free or paid for the Chrome OS?
- Anthony Timberlake
That's my Scoble - seeing things behind the things!
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
*raises eyebrow* Interesting. I applaud more competition
- Mo Kargas
I'm intrigued!
- Daynah
Diego, no, it's one of Microsoft's primary businesses. Did you know Microsoft has 14 billion dollar businesses?
- Robert Scoble
Related to Microsoft's Gazelle browser? http://news.cnet.com/8301-13...
- Kiran Patchigolla
Windows 7 GPL 3.0 ?? Brouahahaa:-)
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
cool, im thinking its a special version of windows 7 for netbooks?
- sean percival
Microsoft isn't doing too bad lately.
- Eric Florenzano
Anthony: I'm sure it will be free.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I'm sure they do. As I'm sure IBM does. But I don't care about IBM. :)
- Diego Barros
BingOS?
- imabonehead
imabonehead :D
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
imabonehead: no. :-) Microsoft isn't that disruptive.
- Robert Scoble
And that means Google Is doing well once again, doesn't it?
- Markingegno - Donato
from Android
The Chrome OS will be for netbooks and such for now. And is Microsoft announcing the Free One Care?
- Dylan Richardson
haha BingOS! I like it
- Diego Barros
Bingo yes :)
- Kiran Patchigolla
*chuckles at imabonehead*
- Daynah
LOL BingOS! The startup sound will be Ballmer saying "BING!" like he did at AllThingsD conference.
- Paul Salzman
Bing-OS was his name-o!
- Daynah
Bingos <--- that was his name-o
- Micah Wittman
GoogleOS is already out - "It's the browser" - the GNU/Linux/Ubuntu skin is just marketing...
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
*high fives Daynah*
- Micah Wittman
An open source OS - how much stable will it be??
- Palak Mathur
Question is Robert, if you are not allowed to say, how on earth did Google find out?
- Sandra Large
Bingo-sssss
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
Micah, we're on the same google brain wave tonight. :)
- Daynah
Palak - you troll
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
Ride the wave :D
- Micah Wittman
Sandra: it might just be coincidence. Or maybe they have great spies. Depends on your view of the world, huh?
- Robert Scoble
Microsoft is open-sourcing their code too??? Yeah, didn't think so. :)
- Josh Fraser
Josh: part of the Microsoft announcement on Monday runs on Google Chrome (and Firefox for that matter).
- Robert Scoble
Not all "open-sourcing" is created equal.
- Micah Wittman
Maybe Microsoft is making it's secret announcement this week cause they knew Google was about to announce?
- Alan W Silberberg
Robert - say no more, don't get into trouble, Duder.
- Alex 'BuckyBit' Covic
Thats real funny Josh .. Its like pulling teeth to get them to give a discount on anything.
- Dylan Richardson
Alan: maybe! It all depends on how you look at the world, doesn't it?
- Robert Scoble
Nice Cant Wait!
- James Hunter
It just seems to coincidental. Like President of Iran making big speech during MJ's funeral!
- Alan W Silberberg
Scoble the only MS announcement they could make that would blow me away is Windows 7 Early release.
- Dylan Richardson
Dylan: Microsoft has a few other impressive things up its sleeve.
- Robert Scoble
So the question is now that Google's making an OS, will Eric Schmidt resign from Apple's Board?
- Paul Salzman
It's all just ones and zeros. ;)
- Victor Panlilio
So, do we give Calacanis credit for calling a Google OS back in 2006? http://calacanis.com/2006...
- Mike Doeff
Sanat: insightful. Paul: Google makes a smart phone OS, and he hasn't resigned, so why would he now?
- Robert Scoble
Zune HD. Looks nice for the first time ever I'm thinking about it.
- Dylan Richardson
Google is talking about it's goals at this point. Isn't Intel trying a netbook OS too that boots fast? It'll be interesting to see which OS features win out here with different implementations. Is instant on to the browser the key or will some other feature shine? Fun times ahead, though really need to see things in action.
- Loren Heiny
from iPhone
Dylan: sorry, that is dead on arrival. They should have combined Zune with a cell phone.
- Robert Scoble
I got a screen photo here: http://ff.im/4WoVE, I don't have much comments yet due 2 that I am using it now, its not much of an announcement.
- polou/indigo_bow
Robert, Zune with a phone hmmm??? I hope ur rite as u said ur embargoed!
- polou/indigo_bow
Gazelle?
- carrotmadman6
MS does not have the Balls to take on the iPhone.
- Dylan Richardson
Wait for Monday. Nothing else to say.
- Frédéric Sidler
from iPhone
Robert, because they claim to excuse him from the part of the meetings related to iPhone...computer OS is arguably the biggest segment of Apple. I guess he can stick around for the hardware discussions. I know my argument is elementary, but maybe walking a line here?
- Paul Salzman
What was the last big hit new MS product?
- James Watters
But if they did that would be cool competition is always better for the consumer.
- Dylan Richardson
James: Xbox? Dynamics? Bing?
- Robert Scoble
Apple is not really what I will be looking at Android is the big boy here
- polou/indigo_bow
MS Office on the browser would also explain why GMail and Google Apps are finally out of Beta today too.
- Ron Schott
Xbox
- polou/indigo_bow
OH OH Project Natal is coming out!! lol j/k
- Dylan Richardson
Robert: Thanks, wasn't hating, just looking for organic momentum from products. Bungie was def a godsend to 360. Bing proved Seth Godin wrong which I greatly enjoyed.
- James Watters
@Robert Scoble: So I looked up Microsoft's last quater's financial report, Microsoft does indeed have a $14 billion business :)
- Long Zheng
Bing is nice I have to say. Here is how I use it .. If I want to Buy or shop a price I use Bing. If I need info its Google.
- Dylan Richardson
MS better fix the %$^#%@^ Gumblar hole first, it's apparently worse than Conficker -- http://rixstep.com/2...
- Victor Panlilio
MS also has ~6+ B in R&D, is it efficient?
- James Watters
Not new news, but it could be the launch of Silverlight 3.0? Offline mode and all the other nice bits, runs on Chrome and Firefox.
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
Oh, really? When I get something on embargo...I don't write about getting it under embargo. Come on, Robert. You're better than that. Or at least I hope you are.
- Andrew Feinberg
I agree @travis, but google make it like a news
- polou/indigo_bow
James: it doesn't matter, a company like Microsoft needs a product pipeline to remain relevant. Research lets Microsoft remain relevant and on Monday you'll see a bit of how it does that.
- Robert Scoble
OK. Google Chrome OS. Netbook makers say Linux based Netbooks have high return rates. How will people react to a Netbook that only runs a browser? Linux has remained niche.
- Dileepa Prabhakar
Andrew: sometimes you have to take a risk. This is one of those times.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I will look forward to it. We ALL win when great software comes to the market. Almost nothing better in the world.
- James Watters
14 billion, maybe Office that runs on Silverlight, therefore in the browser properly.
- Travis Koger
from iPhone
Do you all think GoogleOS will just boot up right into the browser? Browser will be in firmware?
- Paul Salzman
BTW, Robert, will Microsoft finally dump IE and develop a Webkit based browser? (Forget Gazelle. Yet another stupid Microsoft research project that will never successfully make it mainstream.)
- Dileepa Prabhakar
Paul: no highly unlikely.
- James Watters
Dileepa: I don't know the answer to that. But the demos on Monday (I have a bunch of video coming) were shown to me in Firefox. So maybe that's our answer right there.
- Robert Scoble
James: so you think it will sit on top of Linux or something? Or just be a new flavor of Linux?
- Paul Salzman
Linux flavor of Chrome, thus far not arrived yet
- polou/indigo_bow
Paul: I'd look at Android as a precursor and say yes its going to use a google refined linux kernel, and I believe the post even says a windowing system. I'll check TC again to be sure brb.
- James Watters
Paul: I bet there will be some customization of Linux underneath Google's Chrome OS. I'm intrigued and can't wait to see what they will do with it.
- Robert Scoble
Google says the software architecture will basically be the current Chrome browser running inside “a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel.” (quoting TC)
- James Watters
I can almost bet that its web based Microsoft Office with some nifty real-time collaboration features.
- sameer
Sameer - I agree. Explains cross-browser compatability
- Daniel Lazarides
from iPhone
"a new windowing system" leaves the door open for a greater level of abstraction away from the kernel for sure. Probably still with some access to files, devices, etc on the local hardware though which a browser alone would be a clumsy solution too.
- James Watters
If Microsoft's BIG announcements are Web based Office (already demo'ed and announced), Windows Azure RTW (nothing unexpected) or Windows 7 RTM (already announced to be announced!), there is nothing that's going to surprise people on Monday then.
- Dileepa Prabhakar
I think Wave might be integrated into the OS.
- Jayasimhan Masilamani
Dileepa: Windows7i -- the Cloud OS from MS
- Paul Salzman
Jaya: Like as a built in extension to the windowing system? Like IE and explorer?
- James Watters
@Alex Will they be able to match Open Source strategies as followed by Ubuntu,etc??
- Palak Mathur
just another rehashed disaster of windows in another marketing created packing
- Zac Bowling
Dileepa - They haven't talked much about collaboration using Office web. There was one OneNote demo that showed some realtime synchronization. I'm thinking more Wave-like realtime features.
- sameer
Zac: I'm going to believe Robert, but lets give him hell if this is marketing glossy! :)
- James Watters
Paul Salzman: Windows 7i with WGA! -- works only when accessed through IE when running on a WGA validated copy of Windows.
- Dileepa Prabhakar
Dileepa: that's it, we've called it! ;)
- Paul Salzman
Robert you managed to convert a complete google night into a complete MS night :)
- Kiran Patchigolla
James: it's been a while since I've felt compelled to do more than five videos at a Microsoft press conference. See ya on Monday.
- Robert Scoble
sameer: That will be mimicking existing Google Docs feature. Google Wave is at a completely different level and I am not sure if Microsoft is up to doing something like that.
- Dileepa Prabhakar
Till Monday it is, I'm thinking I'll even blog it.
- James Watters
Wave might act as the collaboration platform on the OS. But that leads to another question. Will the OS be tied to Google accounts for login?
- Jayasimhan Masilamani
Dileepa: Let's see, I think there's potential for implementation of realtime collaboration across the web based and desktop offerings of Office that could be of big mainstream impact. It's got to be something related to Office, Robert talks about the "$14 billion business" - The only other Microsoft business I know of that's that big is Windows.
- sameer
sameer: I said that Microsoft has 14 billion dollar businesses. Plural, not singular, but I also said it was one of Microsoft's primary businesses. That narrows it down a bit, yes.
- Robert Scoble
My guess is a MS hardware that will shake the netbook market!!
- Krishnan Subramanian
So that's a Win7 RTM announcement, combined with Web Office. If Web Office will be free to use, the combination of W7 Starter with Web Office will be a huge notebook hit.
- Kirill Petrovsky
If ChromeOS was meant to counter MS, then the logical MS announcement would be some kind of OS project, like maybe a combination of Microsoft Singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... ) combined with Silverlight for NetBooks or mobiles.
- Ray Cromwell
MS Web Office for sure: Scoble said it runs on Chrome and Firefox and it's a multi billion business. Actually, MS Office accounted for 18-19B $ in 2008.
- Jérôme Flipo
I fear that if the tech side of their release if good (but whatever the pricing), Google Apps isn't ready for the fight.
- Jérôme Flipo
Microsoft announces the cloud OS? I'm still not sure about a Google OS though.
- Burcu Dogan
Web Office in Silverlight, together with a mobile version that means we get Silverlight on WinMo and maybe even IPhone would be a win for me
- Ian Blackburn
I cannot wait...:-) but I DO have a clue...
- Eric Denekamp
Lots of people suggesting Office-in-browser but if that were it why would Robert be under embargo given they've already announced it and demo'd it? I'm not saying it ISN'T Office-in-browser but if it is then something doesn't add up!
- Jamie
Good point Jamie - the two primary business in MS are Office and Windows (in terms of revenue anyway), so perhaps this is more to do with a Windows OS in the cloud? How would that look?
- Ian Blackburn
Midori perhaps? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- Jamie
Initially, Google VS Live, Then Chrome Vs IE & Google Vs Bing, finally its Windows VS Chrome OS
- Michael_techie
Ummm... are they announcing an online version of MS Office like Google Docs?
- prolificdyslexic
that's why I do not subscribe to Scoble - too many comments on his articles, too much noise
- Павел Романовский
I don't see any noise in here. Interesting conversation!
- Robert Scoble
The MS guy at Portland Cloud Camp said Azure was going to be released very, very <wink, wink> soon. #cloudcampPDX
- Gary Walter (gwalter)
@gwalter You’re maybe right. The front end would be MS Gazelle, and the back end would be Azure.
- Bram Pitoyo
Microsoft is finally putting the Zune out of it's (and out) misery and killing it? :)
- Diego Barros
Office Web Apps release to public beta is well overdue - first promised for end of 2008. If this is embargoed then it must involve something new. ScottGu hinted that Silverlight 4 was already in development. SL3 is released this Friday. So maybe SL4 will be released,in beta with a beta of Office Web Apps showing some SL4 features (like more AIR like features)..
- Joe Wood
It seems like "too late" and illogical for Microsoft to come-up with another vendor-lock-in type innovation and expect positive results. Microsoft is not run by daredevils nor wimps. The announcement Robert talking about might be about a web based productivity application suite, which is standards compliant and offers a familiar interface and workflow for people, thus easily adoptable and steal competitors' (G, Y!, Zoho, 37S, Adobe?, etc.) user base.
- Berk D. Demir
The thing thats got me shitting my pants over all this is Games. I need Windows to play all the latest Direct X 10 and 11 games. Linux is hopeless in that regard.
- Mark
Audience in here is mainly composed of technically inclined, early adopters. We feel comfortable with online apps and mainly ready to ditch (or already ditched) many offline applications in favor of our new toys. OTOH, that's a huge paradigm shift for the other majority of less technically inclined and incomparably bigger masses. Microsoft still have the power to lead masses, create...
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- Berk D. Demir
Interesting discussion! I vote for MS Office online !
- Krishnamoorthy
I commented in istartedsomething on Long Zheng theories with this list. so why not here after having read all of Scoble responses?: Safe Guesses (not crazy): 1.- Office Ensemble (Office Web Apps + Office Live Update) and a Office 2010 public CTP (the most likely one) 2.-Microsoft Online Services gets full release along with a full release of Windows Azure while one of the new Data...
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- Avatar X
from FriendFoo
i crammed a lot of guesses that may not have to do with the announcement so maybe robert could say warm or hot to the whole list without having to specify. :P
- Avatar X
I vaguely recollect listening to the GIllmor Gang in June/July 2008 where Robert said he'd just visited Microsoft Research and seen "an amazing new browser". If memory serves me correctly it was said in the context of mobile devices but who knows.....this may be another contender for Monday's announcement!
- Jamie
Anything related to Midori ? http://technologizer.com/2008...
- Krishnamoorthy
Microsoft has already made their counter-move to a Google OS. It's called Windows Azure. It'll serve apps to the Google OS with ease and MS will make money in the process. Yeah, I know today the money be nowhere near what the Windows OS makes, but while the Google OS is gaining traction as a desktop OS, Azure will be gaining traction as an app hosting platform for that very same Google OS and others.
- Jeff Weber
More spam news will come in. Azure, Mirot ha ha ha
- Michael_techie
just another social network (where the IE users might hang out)
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Another huge innovation like renaming Bing?
- Burcu Dogan
Google is initially going after netbooks via a new OpenSource OS. If Microsoft's Next Big Thing is Azure then they are betting that a locked-in cloud-based OS will trump Google's move. It's gonna be VEHLEY INTELESTING to see this play out.
- J.D. Deutschendorf
launching online enabled MS Office, free and beta
- Павел Романовский
I really hope it's not anything Silverlight related, some one is on crack if they think the end game is everything running in a plugin in a browser.
- Scott Kahler
Tease. Tease. :)
- Charlie Anzman
Robert, they'd better have more than a few "14 billion dollar" businesses. Their market cap is 200 billion for heaven's sake.
- Stephen Pickering
sorry, have to ask. did it make you cry? :)
- dannysullivan
does this mean google=novell?
- Eran Even-Kesef
Made the news onto electricpig your announcement!
- Giraffes Up In The AIr
Dr. Schmidt HAS to resign from the Apple board... too many conflicts of interest (iPhone v Android, Chrome OS v OS X, Chrome v Safari). What could he possibly be adding that can't be obtained through someone else?
- Gerald Buckley
You are in Palo Alto? I am in Mendocino. :)
- Joe
pricing of Azure will definitily be one of the announcements; not the BIG one. Office online perhaps...
- Jeroen De Miranda
Very interesting indeed. Chrome OS sounds like a great companion to Windows on a netbook+ device, for those times when you do need instant web/email. Looking forward to your videos!
- Will Johnson
Since the event on monday is WPC I'm guessing that Steve Balmer will present MS view on future of the Enterprise and showing off some of what Ray Ozzie has been working on. Coming full circle with Azure (computing infrastructure), Mesh (powering collaboration), SilverLight (future of runtime enviroments on all platforms) and of course all of this software+services has to be powered by Windows Enterprise Servers on the back end.
- Daniel Chow
Also the new Office is the first application to launch under the above stack. Scoble, did I get anywhere close to any of the embargoed announcements? :)
- Daniel Chow
Robert - Was GLADoS based on you? ;)
- Matthew DeVries
What do you think? How long will the Apple-Google Friendship last? http://friendfeed.com/applero...
- Hans Kainz
They are going to announce the release of IE 9 - the even worse with net standards addition.
- Bobby Griffith
Windows 7 Home/Business/Ultimate Netbook Edition. Each with different capabilities and things disabled for no reason other than to confuse users and make more money.
- Scott Koon
heh - i know now what the announcement is and i am not embargoed - i should make a post :)
- Allen Stern
Go for it, Allen! Inquiring minds want to know!
- Rudy Amid
Well if you do know, you owe it to your readers to report the news,
- Mark
Mark - That's if you see tech journalists (which I don't think Robert even classifies himself as) as true hard hitting journalists (think woodward and burnstein, ed Murrow) or if you think of them in the vein of Sports writers. Sports writers, like tech writers, need to foster relationships and have their names known and have to cross closer into the friendzone to get us the day to day...
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- Matthew DeVries
Mark: sorry, I signed an embargo. That's the way these things go and I'm not willing to burn this relationship, sorry. You'll know on Monday. Matthew is exactly right. And even with Woodward and Burnstein, they played this game. You didn't know who Deep Throat was, even though that was news too.
- Robert Scoble
Not even going to go for the Deep Throat joke... I swear, I'm not going to... :p
- Bill Heslin
what announcement?
- kang
I didn't mean Robert should report it. I meant Allen Stern who commented he was not under an embargo. He knows it, he has no NDA, he should report it.
- Mark
RT Allen Stern "heh - i know now what the announcement is and i am not embargoed - i should make a post :)"
- Mark
I hope its not Gazelle. If it is I respect Robert for abiding by the embargo. It seems as though no one in tech abides by embargoes any more. If it is Gazelle, might as well discuss since it is all over the tech blogs already.
- Keith Beucler
As they keep it under the blanket till now! It should be software only thingy! speculations about xbox, zune phone etc are free to leave!
- Amir
It's not Gazelle. At least I don't think so, because I have no clue what Gazelle is. I'm off to find out.
- Robert Scoble
Ahh, nope, what I was thinking of is not Gazelle. But now that I see the rumors I wonder if Microsoft has more than one major announcement on Monday?
- Robert Scoble
My Guess: They enabled Live Mesh Web Desktop to run applications, So in future all applications are going to be hosted in Live Mesh
- Amir
maybe i want use chrome all day,,just for internet surfing
- qian
Hey Robert, on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being an announcement that version 8.1 of IE includes a better spell-checker, and 10 being that Windows 8 is coming out in 2010 and is free, how many out of 10 is the announcement going to be in terms of having an impact?
- Mark
btw I have had this single chrome window open for about a week, and because each tab has its own process I don't get memory leaks like with firefox.
- Mark
Does unmodded, unaddon'd firefox leak?
- Matthew DeVries
Not sure to be honest
- Mark
So there could be your difference.
- Matthew DeVries
Mark: that's hard to judge. I'd say 6.9 based on how you framed it.
- Robert Scoble
Is this something that will go over well on Wall Street?
- Michael Fidler
Well, today Microsoft announced the promotion of Steven Sinofsky to president of the Windows Division.
- imabonehead
Robert ur (face) a hit today in the news outlets: http://lifehacker.com/5310444...
- polou/indigo_bow
I hope Google comes up with a great OS. I have tried any different Linux versions on my netbook but have never found the perfect one. Looks like they have connected the right partners as well so I am very excited. 9 0ut 10 for me. This could change everything
- Asgeir
TechCrunch on Scoblelizer's drumroll: "Office In Cloud Comes Monday" http://bit.ly/18sKUe
- JimmyJet
it will be a sigh of release for people come to fear those massive, massive office purchase/downloads. still a pain for when you travel and have no access online though...
- Terry O'Fee
While Google's forays in the OS and office productivity arenas are great for consumer choice, are they playing w/ fire? Google's core revenue stream is search, which has a much lower switching cost than any of MS's multiple revenue streams: Client, Office, Server. It seems like the two are pitching for a protracted fight that could be costly to both. But in a battle of attrition, it seems to me that Google could lose $ faster than MS.
- lingb
Windows ME Ultimate?
- Michael Funk
Well, it's Monday, what is the announcement about?
- SuezanneC Baskerville
MS is making Office apps online. Ala google apps. Boring.
- Rudy Amid
Why do we have to *learn* how to use enterprise software? Complete mental entrapment. Heap of Fail. Bucket of sighs. Lump of WTF
Denise Aday, Chris Sparno, Maria Niles and 15 other people liked this
The complication of enterprise sw is it is feature packed in order to satisfy everyone. It's like sitting in the cockpit of a Boeing 747! Companies make a whack of cash from training
- Shane
Half of the feature set never gets used. I have been through a few CRM implementations and its fun how long they take, how much training is required and then when you're done 10% of the system is used.
- Jason Cronkhite
Per your headline, Wow! I think that about says it.
- Mark Evans
manufactured complexity drives the integration and support/maintenance community, creates never ending training cycles and guarantees that any further updates will require the same - although I tend to think this model has a finite life expectancy
- Kevin Cearns
Enterprise software is about control. Control of resources, control of mindshare. Control of thinking. It's about binding employees tightly to the Borg collective - the enterprise hive mind. MS Sharepoint is a perfect example. It's touted as a collaboration tool, but it's really a control mechanism used to contain and control corporate institutional knowledge.
- Ken Camp
I don't think Sharepoint is an evil control mechanism, it just suffers from a uniquely Microsoftian way of thinking, i.e. "How can we empower employees to collaborate without letting things get out of hand". It's really an intractable problem and that's why SP consulting is so big.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
This is a funny conversation. I think vendors are finally feeling the tertiary wave of this recession with customers, analysts, and the like beginning to question the entire enterprise software solution selling and delivery model. Gone are the days of 8-9 figure deals with armies of follow up $$$ delivered via costly consultants, partners, and unnecessary shelfware. Customers want the NASA approach - faster, better, cheaper and they are beginning to demand it from their vendors.
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
I'd love for companies to jump in headfirst with laissez-faire megawikis rather than tightly regimented CMSes or Sharepoint installs, but I take whatever I can get.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I see a BIG shift coming and a MAJOR reset in the enterprise sw selling model/approach. Especially with all of us moving the stack into the clouds.
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
In the meantime, what are those of us inside these enterprises supposed to do with the bloated products provided by software vendors?
- V Mary Abraham
The real problem lies in the way that (largely still database driven) software is being created to this day. Everything is mostly a silo, interoperation and customization are still difficult/expensive despite APIs, and way too many wheels are being reinvented on a daily basis (especially for GUIs). BTW, this goes for open-source stuff like Wordpres as well, look at the code and how...
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- Alex Schleber
Google Wave はやっぱりサーバー側のプロトコル（文書管理と通信）が大事で、クライアント側は Gadget とか GTalk の既存技術＋見せ方なのかなぁ。
i have yet failed to see a good take on it. many said that it could take on sharepoint but i doubt it. but it does notes that it is obvious that Microsoft new about Wave and what it was since they have gone to great lengths to make Sharepoint even stronger for the future. Sharepoint designer is now free and Groove got renamed Sharepoint Workspace Manager and it is one of the highlighted services for Microsoft Online Services.. bottom line= Sharepoint is a armored train and it will not slow down at all.
- Avatar X
from FriendFoo
Social Network Progression: LinkedIn became the open Outlook; Facebook became the open LinkedIn; Twitter became the open FaceBook; Friendfeed became the open Twitter.
Aaron M. Clay, mike "glemak" dunn, Brome and 8 other people liked this
What did I miss and whats next?
- Sameer
I guess wave is next
- Kiran Patchigolla
yeah, could be Kiran.Lets see how it improves on use cases that FriendFeed currently offers. Given that its a platform, its up to the developer community, not just Google
- Sameer
You're going to fast with this. I think Twitter and FriendFeed are ultimately part of one same ecosystem. They both are much different than Facebook because of their asymmetric relationships and de-emphasis of privacy. Twitter and FriendFeed belong together with the likes of Flickr and Delicious, IMO. It's somewhat "web 2.0". Facebook is outside of that realm. Oh and they also fit with the blogosphere. Blogosphere is also public and asymmetric.
- Meryn Stol
I also don't see how Twitter is any less open than FriendFeed.
- Meryn Stol
What could be next is this class of centralized services becoming decentralized, like the blogosphere. I'm thinking of stuff like DISO, OpenMicroBlogging (and Jaiku protocol, etc) and Google Wave then.
- Meryn Stol
What's I also expect to be next are the "uber clients" which will blur the boundaries between the independently-run services. I think we'll get a Facebook-like "integrated" experience based upon the open API's of Twitter, FriendFeed, Delicious, Flickr, etc. BTW this is already there for some part. It's just that the clients are very immature at this point in time.
- Meryn Stol
Sameer, re Wave: Right now I have the hunch it won't make it. I think that the next big thing will have to keep compatability Twitter. They have the prime social graph right now. It's also why I think FF won't make it as an "incompatible" platform, they'll need to add full Twitter compatibility. Thing is, I expect the FriendFeed team to understand this at some point, while the Google...
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- Meryn Stol
Superior engineering PLUS full Twitter compatibility *will* win though.
- Meryn Stol
good stuff Meryn. Re:"You're going to fast with this." - i dont mean each of these as businesses. I mean from a stand point of network design effects. This wont be sequential ofcourse. You could argue that FB has caught up with FF with the new UI.....
- Sameer
FF to me is more open than Twitter in that I can see the smarts of more people without knowing about them or subscribing to them thanks to the threaded nature of discussion. On Twitter, for example, unless a connection of mine explicitly names someone, i wont know about them. Even if they do name someone, I need to to work to figure out if I want to follow them (check profile etc)...
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- Sameer
Sorry Sameer, I didn't interpret what you said in "best faith" (a variant on "good faith' I just made up). In any case, it triggered a nice reactive commenting spree from me. I think it contains at least something of value. ;) But with regard to Twitter, did you know that some head of engineering of Twitter recently said to Scoble that they were considering adding something like likes and comments? There's not so much difference between the two. Twitter just has to catch up in terms of features.
- Meryn Stol
All that said, Im with you on the concept of uber clients. Thats where its really going to get interesting. (Starting a new thread on that in a min). Im interested in your comments Meryn on why wave wont make it. Ive had hell of a week on the personal and work front and havent had a chance to really dig in and form an impression.
- Sameer
That said, the current feature set on FriendFeed, and their snappy commenting UI is *total* bliss. That's why I'm mostly here, and not on Twitter: to experience this godness. :)
- Meryn Stol
I haven't dug deep into Wave myself. I just haven't got much faith in the whole of Google. Quite extreme maybe, but I think they've just grown to large. They're a kind of MSFT now. Not evil (I don't think MS was *that* evil either, just very "corporate") but big and sluggish. I have much more faith in the independent teams (the startups *including* Twitter) in the valley (and the Valley's "satellites"). The VC's aren't still pouring money in without reason.
- Meryn Stol
You could also say that I'm just being "tribal" here. But I'm cheering for the independents, for the starfish instead of the spider. (Have you read that book?)
- Meryn Stol
But GOOG, like MSFT, will probably remain stubborn until it's too late. But with regard to winning battles: MSFT was fighting against *one* company: Netscape. Google will have to fight the whole Valley. They can't win. Ok this is a very rough (and intuitive) take. So please take this with a grain of salt.
- Meryn Stol
If I were head of Google now, I'd buy out the current startups which are still on the market (they lost Flickr and Delicious to Yahoo) for practically any money I guess. Well, from a "strategic" point of view of course. Problem is that Goog's mangement will probably destroy it. Blogger hasn't made it, Jaiku hasn't made it, Feedburner has been crazy, Youtube is only losing them money...
- Meryn Stol
So on second thought, maybe I wouldn't buy, and just let the valley - the starfish - win.
- Meryn Stol
It will all end up at the cross section of ease of use and largest network effect, discounted by monetization viability.
- Sameer
like the Starfish vs Spider analogy. No, I havent read the book :). Amazon link?
- Sameer
The only thing I admire from Google is their "commoditize your complements" strategy with Android and Chrome. They need a good and cheap web platform on both desktop and mobile because they're in the web app business.
- Meryn Stol
Funny thing is that the web app starfish (the valley) will profit it from just as well... Quite simply, I believe there is no sustainable competitive advantage, and Google just has had their fortune. They can milk it, just like MSFT is still milking Windows and Office.
- Meryn Stol
In general, one could say that the whole economy, the whole of entrepreneurship is a starfish. Even the big co's are part of the starfish, the largest starfish. Otherwise we'd have true central planning, with all companies owned by one "uber company' or the government. There is a sweet spot for organizational size though, and I think it's how many people you need to execute on a...
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- Meryn Stol
It might be though that because of recent developments, the ideal size of organizations has gotten smaller, and that we've never see a big IT company like GOOG again. The social media space might be all kind of small companies cooperating together, in a sort of "federation".
- Meryn Stol
To your last point about the size and federated model of the new company. I wonder about that too Meryn. But I don't beleive we have seen even one working business model. Right now everyone is opening APIs to encourage network effects but no one is making real money doing it (not the platform or the developer).
- Sameer
Can you imagine if Twitter started charging Friendfeed for by directional API access? That might be check mate for many including FF which is well capitalized.
- Sameer
Re business model: true. But you know the VC's: They truly believe in riding towards ubiquity, and *then* think what to do with it. They can end up in a kind of "prisoner dilemma" though... They need a fair method of sharing the income... Income will probably be happening in very specific places... Some startups might not be able to monetize. It's like the "cost center"/"profit center" idea from Management Accounting if you know that.
- Meryn Stol
In the case of Google, Chrome and Android are cost centers. Search and Apps are profit centers.
- Meryn Stol
Oh and btw, if I was a billionaire, I'd happily FF, Twitter and all the bunch. I would fine a way to monetize it sure, if only by going the Enterprise route. I'd totally KILL Google Apps (and Office/Sharepoint) there. And I'd have Google Wave for breakfast. :D
- Meryn Stol
Fun hanging with you my friend. I'm off to go dribble with my 3 yr old at the park :) later
- Sameer
Good for you. Then I might be able to catch some sleep. ;) Have fun! :)
- Meryn Stol
Google doesn't compete - they assimilate
Rob Diana, Ali Sohani, Darren Heydon and 4 other people liked this
The great thing about Wave is it doesn't really compete with anything (other than SMTP). It does force people that could be considered competition with Google, to use Wave to stay competitive. Google will be the back-bone of most of the web if they keep this up. They'll power Facebook, FriendFeed, and Twitter, along with Microsoft and the Enterprise.
- Jesse Stay
I think Wave may win consumers, but I'm not so sure about enterprises. Or will there be private Wave-servers etc like there are mail servers.
- Jemm
Jemm, Microsoft simply needs to make Exchange and sharepoint speak the Wave protocol. No need to create a new server.
- Jesse Stay
Depends, how it's architecture can be modified to support it. If they ever support it (which I doubt), they'd probably brand it under Windows Live (which have "waves", too, as in versions, btw;). Most likely Microsoft comes with a competing real-time service that may or may not be compatible with the Google Wave. (Disclaimer: I'm strongly Microsoft-biased;)
- Jemm
Jemm - yes, you can set up your own Wave server just like an SMTP server. The back end is meant to be like a real-time SMTP server from what I understand.
- invariant - farewell FF
That's assuming you're using Wave as a product. Nothing's stopping anyone from creating their own products around the Wave protocols. Just like Sendmail speaks SMTP the same way Postfix speaks SMTP, and the same way Exchange can speak SMTP as well (if you set it to do so), you'll see many flavors of Wave protocol speaking services.
- Jesse Stay
from email
Very true Jesse - just hope no one uses that fact to try the old "embrace and extend" strategy.
- invariant - farewell FF
If "someone" is still in business, surely they will try embrace and extend. But I hope people will be wise to that game by the time they do.
- Nathaniel Thurston
With ODF Microsoft purposefully avoided EEE, but since ODF 1.1 is so weak specification, they didn't really need to modify the "standard" - just play by the rules. (And all the others embrace & extend it in non-standard ways, which is "good" for some reason). Let's hope Wave-protocol is executed better.
- Jemm
Jemm - I was just going to mention ODF. They pretty much quashed a near-revolution in government circles by promising ODF support - then they pulled that malarky. So we are still susceptible.
- invariant - farewell FF
The problem with document standards and protocols that have many players is that they have to be kept very simple (SMTP) with limited innovation for them to work. I doubt there ever will be fully supported, complex standard (html, odf/oxml) as all the players can't keep the same pace between themselves or the standard. If everybody supports everything identically, the software must have...
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- Jemm
Google just announced the merging of the Public and Private webs with Wave. Discuss here:
Lyndon Washington, Head Ov Metal, Kol Tregaskes and 34 other people liked this
Public: because they'll run their own service, and nothing is to stop them from enabling users to share this data publicly
- Jesse Stay
Private: because you own your data. You get to specify what individuals get that data in a private environment
- Jesse Stay
The Merge happens when you can take data from your privately owned environment and share it with the world. I don't see anything stopping Wave from being able to do that.
- Jesse Stay
As I said in other threads, the fight to bring Enterprise 2.0 technologies inside the firewall may already be won if Google lets people take private Waves home with them.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
It's still on Google servers and google can monetize the data... therefore it's not "owned" by the enterprise - it's accessible
- andy brudtkuhl
@Tad - it could replace Exchange, Domino, and Yammer for starters. Also Sharepoint.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Andy, nothing is stopping you from running your own open source Wave instance - you can run it on your own servers if you like
- Jesse Stay
@jesse ahhh... then that's that..
- andy brudtkuhl
Daniel, I have a feeling this will be part of the Google Apps platform eventually. It's even better than Gmail because you get to run and deploy your own server, and host and own the data on your own network. Google never has to see this data.
- Jesse Stay
/me hugs Jesse, Google
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
should M$ Sharepoint be scared? i dont think so... most enterprises are already entrenched in the Microsoft stack
- andy brudtkuhl
The people working on Sharepoint now will probably have moved on by the time Wave-ish tools can completely take over the enterprise, but the potential is undeniable.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Andy, if it enables the enterprises to bring in Facebook, Twitter, and other networks into their own private environments, they should be scared. Enterprise is also entrenched in that.
- Jesse Stay
so potentially you can run Google Apps on your own? Is that where it's heading?
- andy brudtkuhl
But imagine netbooks (or apple tablets) that boot straight to Chrome with a start page in Wave... who needs Microsoft?
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
@Jesse .. true but not if Wave doesnt run on MSSQL :-)
- andy brudtkuhl
Andy, at least for Wave that's what they're doing.
- Jesse Stay
@Tad true good point.. But what are the switching costs? Data Migration has to be a biaatch... unless Google comes out with a migration tool .. like they did for ActiveSync
- andy brudtkuhl
Andy, I don't think Exchange really runs on MSSQL either. This is a server architecture and protocol. Technically, as long as it speaks the protocol it doesn't matter what it runs on.
- Jesse Stay
You're not going to see an entire enterprise toss MS overboard in favor of Wave in 2010 or anything, but it can quickly start a parallel ecosystem of workplace communications servers and clients.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
thing is, it's not just exchange on it's own.. you have active directory and the *masses* of other software MS have developed that hook into this for the support and control of your entire network from servers thru to the network hardware all the way down to the desktop and the user account being used on it. This will have to be pretty special to get the majority of businesses to switch away from that.
- alphaxion
+1 Alphaxion. Fifteen years of legacy software intertwined with Win32 aren't going to disappear overnight.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
On the other hand, small businesses are going to have to try a lot harder to justify the "Microsoft Tax" when they make new appropriations decisions.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
@alphaxion that's what i was saying about the M$ enterprise stack.. it's all intermingled (incl Sharepoint)
- andy brudtkuhl
and that in my eyes is the most important thing.. there is finally in the light of Zimbra and wave, at least some form of competition to ensure MS keep working on what I have to admit is a fucking great system they have in place. Yes, it has it's flaws but it's still lightyears ahead of what is out there.
- alphaxion
@Daniel - that is exactly right and i think the target market for Google... there's another cash cow out there for a platform like this - for small businesses and startups
- andy brudtkuhl
@daniel this is certainly an attack on SBS users - which is the entry drug so to speak, for continuing to run an MS backend. And as I have always said, the only reason small companies go for SBS is because of exchange and AD. They're making the right moves to provide an alternative, but Google have to *seriously* up their game if they are to ever compete for more than just the SBS market.
- alphaxion
alphaxion, daniel, I see no reason you could write a Wave instance that talks with MS SQL and all that user data already on Enterprise networks. Wave, at the core, is just a protocol. You just need to speak the protocol for it all to work. Maybe it will even be part of Exchange in the future.
- Jesse Stay
That sounds good to me. The sooner we can get things like this available in the office the better.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
@jesse I'm talking about the core reason why most enterprises go with MS solutions. If that's all it takes then it would have happened much, much sooner. Coming from an admin viewpoint that used to administrate a global network based on active directory and exchange, AD used to give me so much control and with exchange, LCS et al threaded through it almost seamlessly to the user. But...
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- alphaxion
I asked Wikipedia and this is the best I could find: "As the story goes, Google, having consolidated all of its services into the Google Grid – a, "universal platform that provides a functionally limitless amount of storage space and bandwidth to store and share media of all kinds" – and Amazon.com, with its, "social recommendation engine" and, "huge commercial infrastructure" combine forces to battle with Microsoft and its fictional Newsbotster."
- Daniel J. Pritchett
from IM
Yeah I agree, .Net and C# ftw! Java ftl!
- Stuart Evans
Eh, not sure about "mering... webs". Some of my information on Facebook is private, some of it is public. Same with my stuff on Google services. I think it better integrates Google's various properties, but that means more for my data on Google's network and less for the Web at large.
- Steve Lynch
from twhirl
With Wave, they're doing what a lot of people have been saying that they *should* have done years ago.
- Steve Lynch
from twhirl
@Tad C#/.NET is far superior to Java in every way
- andy brudtkuhl
I have to agree that it will be difficult for Google Wave to oust MS SharePoint from organizations in which it is entrenched. If that does happen, it will be via grassroots pressure, not because the CIO changed his/her mind about MOSS.
- Larry Hawes
The social web is maturing and now the realtime web is coming. Twitter makes search realtime, friendfeed brings realtime blogging, google brings realtime co-editing. Everyone will add this stuff to apps, including the incumbent email and collaboration guys like MSFT. Will google be able to get it out fast enough to gain significant marketshare? will other realtime protocols develop that...
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- Andy Fox
Google Wave Sneak Peak - http://wave.google.com/help...
Chris Myles, Ross Miller, Ahsan Ali aka. Slick and 49 other people liked this
A wave is equal parts conversation and document. People can communicate and work together with richly formatted text, photos, videos, maps, and more.
- andy brudtkuhl
A wave is shared. Any participant can reply anywhere in the message, edit the content and add participants at any point in the process. Then playback lets anyone rewind the wave to see who said what and when.
- andy brudtkuhl
A wave is live. With live transmission as you type, participants on a wave can have faster conversations, see edits and interact with extensions in real-time
- andy brudtkuhl
Real Time Collaboration - Concurrency control technology lets all people on a wave edit rich media at the same time.
- andy brudtkuhl
Natural Language Tools - Server-based models provide contextual suggestions and spelling correction.
- andy brudtkuhl
Extending google wave - Embed waves in other sites or add live social gadgets, thanks to Google Wave APIs.
- andy brudtkuhl
Here's how it works: In Google Wave you create a wave and add people to it. Everyone on your wave can use richly formatted text, photos, gadgets, and even feeds from other sources on the web. They can insert a reply or edit the wave directly. It's concurrent rich-text editing, where you see on your screen nearly instantly what your fellow collaborators are typing in your wave. That...
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- andy brudtkuhl
As with Android, Google Chrome, and many other Google efforts, we plan to make the code open source as a way to encourage the developer community to get involved. Google Wave is very open and extensible, and we're inviting developers to add all kinds of cool stuff before our public launch. Google Wave has three layers: the product, the platform, and the protocol:
- andy brudtkuhl
The Google Wave product (available as a developer preview) is the web application people will use to access and edit waves. It's an HTML 5 app, built on Google Web Toolkit. It includes a rich text editor and other functions like desktop drag-and-drop (which, for example, lets you drag a set of photos right into a wave).
- andy brudtkuhl
Google Wave can also be considered a platform with a rich set of open APIs that allow developers to embed waves in other web services, and to build new extensions that work inside waves.
- andy brudtkuhl
The Google Wave protocol is the underlying format for storing and the means of sharing waves, and includes the "live" concurrency control, which allows edits to be reflected instantly across users and services. The protocol is designed for open federation, such that anyone's Wave services can interoperate with each other and with the Google Wave service. To encourage adoption of the protocol, we intend to open source the code behind Google Wave.
- andy brudtkuhl
If you're a developer and you'd like to roll up your sleeves and start working on Google Wave with us, you can read more on the Google Wave Developer blog about the Google Wave APIs, and check out the Google Code blog to learn more about the Google Wave Federation Protocol.
- andy brudtkuhl
All this is being announced at Google I/O
- andy brudtkuhl
Why do we have to live with divides between different types of communication — email versus chat, or conversations versus documents?
- andy brudtkuhl
Could a single communications model span all or most of the systems in use on the web today, in one smooth continuum? How simple could we make it?
- andy brudtkuhl
What if we tried designing a communications system that took advantage of computers' current abilities, rather than imitating non-electronic forms?
- andy brudtkuhl
via blog post -> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/
- andy brudtkuhl
more coverage on FF -> http://bit.ly/8X8Xv
- andy brudtkuhl
O'Reilly Coverage -> http://radar.oreilly.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
TechCrunch coverage -> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
Collaborative Editing: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- andy brudtkuhl
Natural Language Processing -> http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- andy brudtkuhl
Information Week Coverage -> http://www.informationweek.com/news...
- andy brudtkuhl
Google Code Blog covering API, etc http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
PC World Coverage -> http://www.pcworld.com/busines...
- andy brudtkuhl
Telegraph Coverage -> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science...
- andy brudtkuhl
ZDNet Coverage -> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL...
- andy brudtkuhl
Mashable Coverage -> http://mashable.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
FT Coverage -> http://blogs.ft.com/techblo...
- andy brudtkuhl
Thanks man
- Amiroo ™
RWW Coverage -> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
- andy brudtkuhl
@Amiroo No Prob!
- andy brudtkuhl
TechCrunch Interview -> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
TechCrunch exclusive interview -> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
More from Mashable -> http://mashable.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
Programmable Web -> http://blog.programmableweb.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
John Battelle's initial observation -> http://battellemedia.com/archive...
- andy brudtkuhl
Engadget -> http://www.engadget.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
Gizmodo -> http://gizmodo.com/5272121...
- andy brudtkuhl
FriendFeed Room for Google Wave -> http://friendfeed.com/google-... (also featured on http://googlewave.me)
- andy brudtkuhl
Inquisitor Coverage -> http://www.inquisitr.com/24804...
- andy brudtkuhl
Technologizer -> http://technologizer.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
Information Week says it's a Sharepoint Competitor -> http://www.informationweek.com/news...
- andy brudtkuhl
ComputerWorld -> http://blogs.computerworld.com/wave_he...
- andy brudtkuhl
PaidContent -> http://www.paidcontent.org/entry...
- andy brudtkuhl
More From VentureBeat -> http://venturebeat.com/2009...
- andy brudtkuhl
Discussing the implications of Wave on the industry, more specifically the enterprise and Sharepoint -> http://ff.im/3lDSL
- andy brudtkuhl
Can't believe i didnt get a like from Scoble for this !
- andy brudtkuhl
hahah!
- Susan Beebe
thanks Amiroo! I figured if I name dropped he'd step in :-)
- andy brudtkuhl
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