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Shakeel Mahate › Likes
Google Acquires AppJet - http://etherpad.com/ep...
Roman Zolotarev, Altuğ `αℓƒσ¢υѕ´ Orgun, Kamamiya and 76 other people liked this
Congratulations! "We are happy to announce that AppJet Inc. has been acquired by Google. The EtherPad team will continue its work on realtime collaboration by joining the Google Wave team."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
I've been waiting for this :)
- Benjamin Golub
Congrats to the team (http://etherpad.com/ep...)
- AJ Batac
I'm sad that they're shutting it down though :(
- Paul Buchheit
Shutting it down?! why?
- Susan Beebe
No etherpad or alternative for the next 18-24 months :(
- Peng-Toh
This freaking sucks.
- Eric Florenzano
if the technology gets integrated with google docs, it would be as good as the current etherpad
- Mike Chelen
Yeah, I'm not sure what I'm going to do now for jotting down notes...I guess back to email
- Benjamin Golub
google docs still works nicely for most document tasks, including sharing or publishing as needed
- Mike Chelen
I knew it! Docs really needs some Etherpad awesomeness http://blogoscoped.com/forum...
- Jérôme Flipo
Google docs is my friend :)
- Susan Beebe
Even Wave's playback needs some Etherpad's time-slider sauce.
- Jérôme Flipo
if Google works as fast trying to figure out what to do with Etherpad as they did for Jotspot or Jaiku, just to name a few, one can say goodbye to Etherpad and stop using it. This is bad news actually.
- lelapin
SO this is like FF - another talent grab - Google's acquiring more smart talent
- Susan Beebe
I hope Google announces some way for us to create new pads, my online learning classroom will not be the same without etherpad :-(
- Shakeel Mahate
Ouch.
- Адский Блондин
Oh noes! I'm with Shakeel...I need EtherPad for my high school Digital Media students. It's one of the few collaboration sites that isn't blocked at the district level.
- Shea
Shutting down etherpad is a travesty. Fucking Google, keep it open.
- Mitch
I had a feeling this would happen... Etherpad is basically a simplified proto-wave.
- Lindsay
I loved etherpad. Simple and great for code sharing. I don't think there is any other web service like etherpad out there. It will be missed.
- vivekian
During one of my phone screens, I was so frustrated with writely that I switched to etherpad.
- Piaw Na
creative
- ★ Soner Gönül
Google MUST keep Etherpad open after March 31st. I fear that this will be the new JotSpot, and there's no simple alternative around.
- Jorge Martins Rosa
Adding new application interfaces like the EtherPad is the right next step for Wave. They need to move beyond the current Wave app interface towards multi-application document interoperability. Otherwise they will end up being categorized as just a really confusing chat services.
- David Lounsbury
Yet another example of why you shouldn't use the cloud for anything remotely important.
- Gabe
In abstract I would agree with you but there are previous examples, in the past, when Google acquired start-ups and literally did nothing with them. The ideal situation would have been acquiring Etherpad before Wave was created let alone released and build something with it as basis. Now what do you think is going to happen? Best scenario would be Etherpad's people being listened to and...
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- lelapin
from email
lelapin: Thing is, if they acquired Etherpad before Wave was created, Etherpad probably would have cost more to acquire. I'd say the long term potential of Wave having similar functionality, and more, devalued Etherpads product. In announcing that they will open source Etherpad, Google seems to be acknowledging this. Seems like a good outcome for everyone, Etherpad employees, Google and their users.
- Andrew Perry
Andrew: I'm just glad Etherpad (probably following the outcry that their earlier post provoked) made public pads possible again and is to be released as open source for anybody to grab the code and create something out of it. I'm not the slightest concerned about the price at which Etherpad would have been acquired had not Wave existed, it's Google we're talking about here.
- lelapin
for ((a=1; a<=26; ++a)); do for d in 1109 1102 1026 1019 1013 1005 0928 0921 0914 0907 0831 0824 0817; do echo -O "ht""tp://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/photo-contest/2009/img/wallpaper/${d}wallpaper-${a}_1600.jpg"; done; done | xargs curl
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Julien Menichini, vovasty, netpiano and 20 other people liked this
http://lifehacker.com/5416007... but better (fixed)
- Jim Norris
Also, this explains my profile pic =)
- Jim Norris
: 2008 winners; for ((a=1; a<=26; ++a)); do for d in 11{07,03} 10{27,20,14,06} 09{29,22,15,08,01} 08{25,18,11}; do echo -O "ht""tp://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/photo-contest/img/wallpaper/${d}wallpaper-${a}_1280.jpg"; done; done | xargs curl
- Jim Norris
Great! Now if only they'd pre-cropped 16:10 versions :)
- Tudor Bosman
Tudor: sips -c 800 1280 test.jpg --out test2.jpg
- Jim Norris
Great job!
- Jacopod
wtf! I feel so old ... nice pics though.
- Jessie
:-) RT @Michael1980: we tried to crash our servers on #AWS but with cool auto scaling services it is nearly impossible (via @monkchips)
Shakeel Mahate liked this
RT @joshelman YouTube Feather (http://www.youtube.com/feather...) and Facebook Lite (http://lite.facebook.com) are beginning the anti-AJAX movement
Daniel Rowley, Shakeel Mahate and Atul Arora liked this
![Decision tree for what style chart to employ http://bit.ly/6vKAHg [via @gregfunky] #WorkHack](http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/s2c5j "Decision tree for what style chart to employ http://bit.ly/6vKAHg [via @gregfunky] #WorkHack")
I like how Google Chrome deals with OpenSearch. It appears to cache the XML definition as it auto-discovers them. Just start typing the domain and then hit tab to search it. Much nicer than manually installing a new search for each domain like Firefox does.
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Iván Abrego, Nathan Snyder, WingsOfFlo and 48 other people liked this
It also appears to work for sites that don't publish an OpenSearch spec. I think it does something smart to figure out where your result endpoint is and what your query parameter is.
- Bill Strathearn
This has always been one of my most favorite features of Chrome. I'd like to see them fold in Opera's method as well so I can configure a given search if Chrome's auto-discovery doesn't work exactly right.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Don't know what I'd do without it. Saves me lots of time when doing research across blogs.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
or, it's just doing the google site:
- Chris Heath
@Chris Heath it's a site search trick, not google search...
- İsmail Aşcı
i see.. just tried it...
- Chris Heath
it works greatly
- Xitong Liu
bitchin' camaro!
- Josh Haley
I'm not sure I like it. I often use Google site search to bypass a site's own search because Google is often better. Now when I type in site:sitename.com it automatically defaults to the site's own search.
- Jesse Stay
Haven't been able to live without it, feel lost when I'm using other browsers.
- Andrew Trinh
Akiva, configure by right clicking the location field, "Edit search engines..."
- Vezquex: God of FF
Vezquex, excellent!
- Akiva Moskovitz
Jesse, strange. I just tried doing a site:site.com search and it worked as expected. The behavior might be different in Windows.
- Akiva Moskovitz
You can also add one manually, just use the url and "%s" (minus quotes) where the query goes, and it adds "search+term+goes+here" if your search is "search term goes here"
- Nathan Snyder
Open as in water, the fluid necessary for life - http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009...
Tom Stocky, Fabrizio, scott willeke and 53 other people liked this
When is Facebook going to give people open access to the address book? :)
- Bindu Reddy
They already do. My DROID syncs with my Facebook and Google contacts, converging them both for the same contact on either network. Don't ask me how that's done though
- LANjackal
You mean your DRIOD can get to the email addresses of your facebook contacts?
- Bindu Reddy
""Open" is a great thing. Everyone likes it." Maybe everyone you know ;)
- Clare Dibble
a friend of mine has a bb storm and it integrates w/ facebook (when i call him, my facebook avatar shows up... etc etc) -- the Droid being able to combine contact lists and merge them when applicable sounds like the next step
- Chris Heath
It's still not open. That data is locked into the built in contacts app and you can't get it at an api level. Android 2.0 has a complete (well, half-baked) contact model that allows aggregating contact info. Not to mention that when I entered my contact info into facebook that I understood it was going to be shared that way. But from an end-user standpoint it's great!
- Hayes Haugen
@LANJackal that sounds great... I guess my information is dated than..
- Bindu Reddy
Very great post. One of the best. This share remember me with two other great peoples described by Katie Hafner is his book (Where the wizards stay up late): Vint Cerf (you known what i mean) and Dave Clark (by his famous quote : "we reject kings presidents and voting. we believe in rough consensus and running code.") With an "open" mind like yours, they make with days, months, years, a very great open life fluid. I'm very happy to follow you. As Louis Gray says : Please keep blogging. Thank you.
- Guy Vander Heyden
Just like with any other activity, the intention behind being open is very important. If somebody wants to manipulate or mislead, then it can be dangerous to follow them. We just have to be aware of extremes. That said, I have learnt a lot from following you and thanks for sharing your ideas so eloquently.
- Shakeel Mahate
Hey, thanks for the mention - I'm glad you're enjoying Alfie Kohn's book. He makes me think.
- Laura Norvig
Thanks Laura. I've actually "outsourced" the reading to April, but she tells me about it :)
- Paul Buchheit
Heh, see this is the type of efficiency mindset you've developed by running a startup.
- Laura Norvig
No, I've always been lazy :)
- Paul Buchheit
lazy like fox! ;)
- Susan Beebe
"We need people to help us tackle some of the hardest software engineering and computer science problems, including developing a ground-breaking programming system that decimates the time required to build a web application end-to-end." - http://www.asana.com/
arunthampi, Hutch Carpenter, Krishna Gade and 13 other people liked this
Is Asana developing a new programming language?
- Gary Burd
from Bookmarklet
Naturally :) What does it mean to decimate time though? Is that 10% less?
- Paul Buchheit
Yeah, decimate has such an awful sound, by in most real-world situations, getting rid of 10% of something is not such a big deal.
- j1m
The historical definition of decimate was to kill 1 in 10 of a group as punishment but the current accepted definition is to kill, destroy or remove a large percentage.
- Ed Millard
So speaking of decimate, did you see this on the feeds earlier today by @FakeAPStylebook: http://friendfeed.com/glenc...
- Micah Wittman
Asana is developing a functional reactive programming based server-synchronized web development framework. It includes a mixed presentation/logic mini language which gets compiled into JS. I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you more -- they're not terribly secretive.
- ⓞnor
@Micah, the original meaning of decimate is pretty hard to resist. Suggested rejoinder for anyone arguing with FakeAPStylebook types: if you just mean reduce, then say so.
- j1m
"functional reactive"? Is that reactive like MS's reactive framework? http://codebetter.com/blogs...
- Gabe
j1m, indeed.
- Micah Wittman
"Decimators of Time" sounds like a good band name
- David Vasileff
I was just thinking a few weeks ago that a new language may be just what I need for web programming. They seem to have an all-star team. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
- Amit Patel
FRP is a formalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...). More concretely, with Asana's system, you write a *function* that takes the model (database state, etc.) and returns presentation (HTML, etc.) -- just like a simple CGI script (only client-side). So far so ordinary, but with FRP the runtime evaluates the function *incrementally*. A small model change (a field value edit, or a new item in a list), causes only the necessary recalculation and an incremental page update.
- ⓞnor
This is coupled with a client/server sync/notification system, so real-time interfaces like FriendFeed's become the default, rather than requiring a big bundle of event listeners and careful handling of edge cases. The idea is that by eliminating event spaghetti, you can make really great interfaces much more easily. My understanding is they plan to use this to build workflow apps.
- ⓞnor
Dan, thanks for the description.
- Gary Burd
Do you have any examples of what this type of coding looks like?
- Gabe
There's been some nice work on FRP for web programming at Brown, e.g. http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk...
- Jeremy Hylton
They have quite the team and set of investors.
- Fulaan, inna Hebel
Shriram's involved? That makes it even more interesting. He's a pillar of the Scheme community.
- Bruce Lewis
Three 30 inch monitors per engineer.
- Amit Patel
Yes, one for each eye.
- τorƍue
Nothing gets computer scientists excited like the possibility of developing a new programming language. Nothing makes on-the-line implementers cringe more than a new programming language. Ask Joel Splosky how Wasabi adoption is going outside of FogBugz. Of course, the probability of success is higher with languages that are more divergent than anything before it and solve real-world...
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- Bill Strathearn
As both someone who hates to have to deal with a new language, and at the same time loves coming up with new languages, the new language had better be either (a) hugely different and hugely more productive, or (b) my pet language. ;)
- Amit Patel
Easy coding of web-pages that update in real-time -- that sounds like something worth inventing a new programming language for. (I can't think of any other feature that I would consider to justify a new language :) )
- j1m
A picture of me signed in to js-kit.com with my OpenID.
David Recordon, Stephen Edgar, khrisloux and 15 other people liked this
The interesting thing is that I used my personal domain, http://dewitt.unto.net/, as my OpenID, and delegated to Google as my OpenID provider. View the source of http://dewitt.unto.net/ to see how easy it was. Inspired by: http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- DeWitt Clinton
I just delegated to Google too. Amazing how good that feels from an interaction perspective. Damn you Google. I just can't quit you.
- Chris Messina
Thanks for this, DeWitt! I was having a hell of a time trying to reverse-engineer the OpenID providing server on my own. Nice to consolidate on my Google Profile and off my Blogger profile.
- Brett Cannon
Wow this rocks!
- Daniel Dulitz
from iPhone
whoa all app engine apps are providers now
- Onur Gündüz
cool tips - mine is login.tyjak.net and it works like a charm ! thank you.
- David Foucher
Doesn't it depend on the implementor whether or not they decide to store your open-ID "proxy" or the backend to which it delegates, in order to associate an ID with your account? Certainly, they have to decide which providers to trust, and unto.net probably doesn't make the list. -- myopenid.com supports CNAMES, but every consumer I've used stores the authoritative domain, and not my own cname...
- Kurtiss Hare
Wonderful
- Brett Slatkin
Go Data Structures - http://research.swtch.com/2009...
Shakeel Mahate, Richard ¿digame? Walker, Jeremy Hylton and 2 other people liked this
Here I thought for a moment you meant Gene Ontology data structures.
- Ruchira S. Datta
and I thought you meant the game.
- Private Sanjeev
I thought it was a message of encouragement.
- Doug
Remarks by the President on the "Education To Innovate" Campaign | The White House - http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pre...
Bindu Reddy, Jérôme Flipo, Richard Chen and 8 other people liked this
"This nation wasn't built on greed. ... It was forged on stronger stuff, by bold men and women who dared to invent something new or improve something old" - Barack Obama So go out and invent something!
- Peter Norvig
from Bookmarklet
Node.js is genuinely exciting - http://simonwillison.net/2009...
Shakeel Mahate, Evan Parker and James Leard liked this
Server-side Javascript framework to build servers. Uses non-blocking calls and lots of callbacks.
- Amit Patel
node.js: Evented I/O for V8 javascript. - http://nodejs.org/
Greg Guitarbuster, Casey Muller, imabonehead and 4 other people liked this
"Node is similar in design to and influenced by systems like Ruby's Event Machine or Python's Twisted. Node takes the event model a bit further—it presents the event loop as a language construct instead of as a library. ... In Node there is no such start-the-event-loop call. Node simply enters the event loop after executing the input script. Node exits the event loop when there are no more callbacks to perform. This behavior is like browser javascript—the event loop is hidden from the user."
- Gary Burd
from Bookmarklet
IBM announces advances toward a computer that works like a human brain - SiliconValley.com - http://www.siliconvalley.com/news...
Ozkan Altuner, zeroinfluencer, Paul Buchheit and 2 other people liked this
D. Modha and IBM's Blue Brain project reports progress in scaling up neural models to the size of a cat brain. Some day soon, computers may be able to cough up hair balls and barf on your sofa.
- Peter Norvig
from Bookmarklet
there's something weird about that link. Try this http://www.siliconvalley.com/news...
- Laura Norvig
Oh, and I'll pass on the hair balls and barf.
- Laura Norvig
Chrome OS will help kill Silverlight and other non-open tech, preventing msft and others from recapturing the web. (though I expect that it will support Flash by necessity)
ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,, Charles Frith, Vladimir Yashnikov and 149 other people liked this
Good point.
- Robert Scoble
I hope it doesn't. After all we need good media delivery platforms.
- Swaroop
Including GNASH - the open source alternative - would solve that problem
- Bogdan Costea
yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it.
- Zio Bonino
Chrome OS might be a compelling case for SVG/<canvas> + <audio> tag replacements for flash. Dunno what SVG's perf is like on WebKit tho.
- Matt Mastracci
Microsoft will port it. It's all about codecs & DRM. Ogg Theora isn't all that great.
- Rodfather
Is that Steve Jobs disguised as Zio ?
- Swaroop
@Swaroop Yes, we do. Like HTML5.
- Benjamin Dobson
@Swaroop eh eh, I've got flash disabled on all my systems :)
- Zio Bonino
@Benjamin I'd prefer HTML web apps over native apps anyday. But it'll take time for it to mature
- Swaroop
Rodfather, I don't think that will be an option for msft :). If Chrome is built the way I would do it, there is no installation per-se -- everything runs in the browser and the config in stored in the cloud (and cached locally). The computer is a pure appliance.
- Paul Buchheit
@Zio You're the real Steve Jobs
- Swaroop
Microsoft moves much too slow to force new standards these days.
- Louis Gray
@Louis: IE8 flunking ACID test :)
- Swaroop
What about more standard codecs like h.264? That isn't open and is in hardware already.
- Rodfather
h.264 is established and must be in there, but it's not a platform like Silverlight is.
- Paul Buchheit
I know some of the guys behind silverlight. It is some great technology. Too bad it's from Microsoft and is closed.
- Joe Beda ()
from iPhone
A world with no Flash and Silverlight. I can't wait.
- Paul Grav
Yeah, it's too bad they didn't open-source it. This stuff with Mono is silly -- if you want to make a real standard you need to make the real implementation be open.
- Paul Buchheit
MS are about 10 years too late with Silverlight. And they'll most likely be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting HTML5.
- Paul Grav
Zio sez (hopefully humorously): "yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it" -- have you ever watched a single YouTube video in your life? Like seventeen gazillion other people across the wired world. yeah, you're right, nobody needs Flash. ha!
- .LAG liked that
Remember Dave Clark in 1992, "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code."
- Guy Vander Heyden
.LAG: most YouTube videos are playable without Flash now. My iPhone plays most of them and it doesn't have Flash. Certainly by the time the Google OS came out YouTube would be converted completely to non-Flash capability.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: The youtube flash application helps read the flv files on Youtube's servers and provides a UI (decoder too).
- Swaroop
Even Google admits they're not sure I'd bit for bit html5 video is less bandwitj consuming than flash. And flash isn't just media delivery, also interesting games and apps like tonepad, splicemusic.com's online sequencer, etc (I'm musically inclined, so most of my examples will be along that line) and please don't suggest we redo it all in java
- Ed F
from Nambu
Does this mean the next Silverlight release is codename Seppuku?
- Jay Cuthrell
Maybe we'll see commercials encoded in movies if everything is open.
- Rodfather
Flash is too established to kill off right now, so I'd be surprised if Chrome didn't include flash support. It will take many years to get rid of that thing. First they need to fix the standard browser to not be so broken (lack of video, multi-file upload, etc), then they need everyone to switch to the new html5 solutions.
- Paul Buchheit
Scoble ...that may be true, and YouTube plays on my Pre without Flash (yet)...but that doesn't mean that "nobody needs Flash." really? what would replace it?
- .LAG liked that
So Google's NaCl http://code.google.com/p... (now integrated within Chrome/Chromium) was just a temporary workaround, right?
- Jérôme Flipo
Use HTML 5 instead!
- Minh Bui
Is it just me or does Native Client (NaCl) remind you of the Microsoft Active X approach?
- Daniel Chow
But who prevents Google from taking over the net?
- Andreas
youtube videos play on iPhone/iPod Touch as they are higher res mp4 files NOT flv files. It was a big deal when Steve negotiated that deal with youtube.
- vijay
You have Moonlight to run Silverlight applications in Linux. Not perfect, but then an application made on Silverlight is "not perfect" by definition
- Marcos Marado
The point here is that Google has no motivation to include Silverlight on these machines, and installing software likely won't be an option (it's a web appliance), so it will be absent from a lot of netbooks, just as it is absent from iPhones. That cuts into market share, which is a bad thing for a platform that is trying to compete with more universal tech like Flash and HTML....
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- Paul Buchheit
@DanielChow: NaCl has very little overlap with ActiveX, apart from running native code. It runs in a provably safe way, and explicitly does *not* allow it to access arbitrary host APIs. But it can be quite useful when you need to run code that would be too slow in Javascript (even on v8): e.g., heavy encryption/decryption, possibly codecs, definitely game physics, and so forth.
- Joel Webber
There is a time and a place for Flash and Silverlight so I hope it will run it. There are simply some things you can do which aren't possible, or practical in html/css/javascript.
- Steve Temple
Paul: why wouldn't Chrome OS come with Moonlight? And if not, why wouldn't you be able to just install it? And third, why the hell would people want Moonlight for? I never installed it and not even once felt the need to!
- Marcos Marado
from fftogo
because of moonlight http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlig... the potential userbase of silverlight is greatly improved, agree that projects which don't consider compatibility are limiting their potential
- Mike Chelen
@mindboosternoori Ryanair site uses silverlight: http://www.ryanair.com/site... that's the only website I know that uses it - for this you would need moonlight :)
- Ihar Mahaniok
Flash is needed for the google os to be useful in education. Many education based websites are flash based.
- Willowdale
@Paul "Google is probably paying OEMs to ship with this OS, so instead of paying $x/machine to include windows XP, they will get paid $y/machine to include Chrome." - paying present tense, already? Isn't it enough for OEMs not to have to pay hefty licenses to Redmond, etc., while being able to ship with a free, stable OS+browser combo; they need to be paid to do that as well?
- ianf ⌘
I sure hope so. I think the wide array of JavaScript libraries have been killing Flash for years. Silverlight was never really a player. The only think keeping Flash afloat is video
- Scott Radcliff
I don't know what's under the hood of Silverlight (nobody knows), but Flash is basically a sprite engine controlled by Actionscript, which is basically an adapted version of Javascript anyway. It's nicely packaged though, and has an army of developers, so it won't go away that easily, at least not until there are Flash-to-Canvas/ HTML5 porting tools/ translators and the like.
- ianf ⌘
to follow that logic...photoshop is needed as well
- Chris Hofmann
somebody call me when http://playboyarchive.com is working in Chrome OS (it's currently implemented in Silverlight)
- Karim
If it gains any traction at all, MS will just make Silverlight version that will run on Google OS. Sure google could block it, but they haven't done so with the Chrome browser.
- Jeff Weber
Interesting. I doubt the Google OS will get that big anytime soon though.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
Silverlight doesn't have a chance now...I wonder what would Adobe Air do.
- Saad Kamal
not really, if google want to be open then they will need a plugin architecture for it and then MS could just port for it. I really don't see this troubling mainstream users any time soon.
- Darren Stuart
Though I agree with the view that MS monopoly may erode as alternative devices get adoption over PC/Notebook, and these devices will mostly run on open source OS, but it may take years to create a significant change in every day usage of normal users. In the end, OS choice is mostly done by manufacturers, and they would be happy to get paid by open source vendors for putting their OS on...
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- Kaan Bingol
People want media. Hulu, Netflix, Kindle, iTunes, etc. They need to address that or they are DOA.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, what makes you think it will lack media support?
- Paul Buchheit
I don't think it will lack licensed media support but what deals they are able to make will be crucial.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, i thought you were going to say that Netflix was using Silverlight. ;-)
- Karim
Yes, they are, what is their deal with MSFT? Can they do non Silverlight distribution?
- Hayes Haugen
i believe the Netflix non-Silverlight distribution is a format called "DVD" that works over the "Snail Mail" protocol. ;-) but clearly if Google is paying OEMs to install Chrome OS, they can pay Netflix to go back to Flash which Chrome OS will probably support "by necessity" ;-)
- Karim
How can Google make money from Chrome OS? Or does it want to make money from it except through advertisement? I still can not imagine that all software and service are free and sponsored by advertisements.
- Derek Wei
All Chrome OS questions are answered by today's Fake Steve Jobs ;)
- Hayes Haugen
Is there a need to make money? If more and more people eschew desktop offline applications in favor of online web based apps, it means more pageviews, more eyeballs, more advertising inventory, plus has the side effect of undermining a big competitor's cash cow.
- Ray Cromwell
That's the key, Google wants everything online. They figure the more people online, the stronger they become, and the more money they make. At least that what was said at the Chrome launch.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
I'm amused that the "backwards compatibility" argument against alternative operating systems has slowly turned into "does it support flash", and when you unpack that it really means "does it play YouTube". I suspect Google will make sure ChromeOS cna play YouTube and they don't need Flash to make sure of it.
- Nick Lothian
Is it possible that Microsoft will write Office for the Web using Volta instead of Silverlight? Could be a showcase announcement for their attack on GWT
- Ray Cromwell
I think Microsoft is going to focus less on the front-end of the web and more on the back-end, middle tier and database sides. Azure is a big deal that consumers aren't talking about because it's not flashy but will be pretty important to developers (and especially enterprise-level applications) when it's finally ready because everything becomes an interface to the cloud. Microsoft is...
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- Lindsay
Azure looks really cool. Hint: so did Blackbird.
- Michael R. Bernstein
lol blackbird (scary redmond flashback) - a good example of azure platform utilization can be seen via jon udell's elmcity project - http://blog.jonudell.net/elmcity...
- mike "glemak" dunn
Nosense, I want silverlight, flash, html and any other technology in my desktop & mobile phone. Silverlight? yes, there you can develop under Python, Ruby et al, instead of the outdated javascript.
- Sebastian Wain
It looks like with Native Client, you should be able to write your Chrome OS app in any language you feel like. So far, they have some examples in C/C++, but one of the things they ported is a Lua interpreter. If Adobe isn't going to invest heavily in fixing the show-stopping bugs on non-Windows versions of Flash, it's inevitably going to die, and there's really nothing either Google or Apple can do even if they wanted to support Flash better.
- Victor Ganata
...ActionScript3 is ECMASCript-compliant. I know nothing about standards bodies, and shii like that, but what if Adobe dropped ActionScript and said, "You can now use pure Javascript to build Flash applications..." It wouldn't be a big leap. I'm pretty sure that would shut-up all the Flash haters. And to the folks who say Flash is hanging around just because of video...well, video is...
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- .LAG liked that
Actionscript is just the glue for the more advanced what-iffy graphic functionality of Flash. They can not drop it for Javascript, because it contains additional graphic primitives that JS lacks. But it's not the JS-or-Actionscript that makes it a target for hate, it's other things. Nobody denies that it's pretty capable, but it is also badly written, eats up memory like no other, makes...
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- ianf ⌘
I like this post!
- Mohammad Abdurraafay
from iPhone
I honestly don't know how necessary Flash is. Apple seems to be doing fine without supporting it. But certainly Gnash and Swfdec should be implementable on Chrome OS. The fact is that without Adobe's full support on a given platform, Flash apps will always be second class citizens on alternate platforms, and so far, there's no indication that Adobe is interested in fully supporting any platform other than Windows.
- Victor Ganata
ianf ...you bring up great points about Flash's detriments, as does Victor, but until there's a better way to bring video to the Web, I can't see it disappearing. Adobe seems to keep improving the Flash VM, hopefully they'll address those CPU-hogging issues and make a more efficent runtime. Yeah, I hate hearing the fans kick-in when visiting a Flash-heavy site too. <sigh>
- .LAG liked that
alternative to flash video such as ... html5 :) (requires ff3.5) http://www.dailymotion.com/openvid...
- Mike Chelen
from IM
Ed, only??? thats one of the main reasons cited for the continued requirement of flash on popular sites like youtube
- Mike Chelen
Ed, those other uses can be accomplished through pure Javascript, video was the last remaining stumbling block
- Mike Chelen
Still waiting on non-Flash recreations of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... Well aware of how someone mentioned higher up how you can combine javascript and svg to get nifty flash-like effects. I want apps like that though ^ Only real alternatives I've seen are Java-based ones, and those runs even slower than Flash.
- Ed F
Pardon me, but the OP is a ridiculous conclusion. For that to be the case, Chrome OS would have to kill Windows, OS X, etc altogether. Paul, I understand your viewpoint as being an ex-Google person, but that's just NOT going to happen. Right now the video specification from HTML5 has been dropped because of an impasse, meaning that we may be transitioning from 1 closed-source boss - Flash - to another - H264. Good luck.
- LANjackal
But why do these type of apps have to be written in Flash at all? You can easily do the same thing in C, C++, ObjC, Python, Ruby, etc., with the Native Client API that they're building for Chrome. http://code.google.com/p...
- Victor Ganata
I'm just saying, it's not like Flash is the end-all/be-all. As Apple well demonstrates, some people can live quite well without it.
- Victor Ganata
Victor ...i think the answer to the 'why do these have to be written in Flash at all' question is because Flash is installed on such a significant portion of Web browsers. But I recall that Adobe Flex had a competitor, Laszlo/OpenLaszlo, which compiled apps to SWF or to Javascript. Who's to say that Adobe doesn't have the same capability of making SWF apps into JS ones? On one hand, it...
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- .LAG liked that
Ed, such apps are possible with Javascript and HTML5 multimedia features, the question will be how difficult developers find it, and whether the performance is fast enough
- Mike Chelen
LANjackal, there is a question of degree in that Flash + H264 uses proprietary software and codec, while HTML5 + H264 requires only the codec. while OGV is no longer part of the spec, it can certainly still be used to have completely open video formats, and recent comparisons have shown it performs well http://people.xiph.org/~maikme...
- Mike Chelen
Silverlight's 3 is looking pretty impressive today but tend to agree
- Charlie Anzman
What everybody seems to be missing about Flash is that it works because there is one implementation which is mostly backwards-compatible and the same across platforms. It beat Java because, among other reasons, Java just didn't work the same across JVMs and platforms. The problem with HTML5 is that it will have a different implementation for every browser, and that means your app/game...
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- Gabe
Paul, don't you prefer brutal competition SL vs. Flash vs. standards bring to the table by definition? Or are you more into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - 2020 Google Union - type of ideology?
- Kari Honkanen
Kari, I don't understand your question. Competition is good, but with open-source we get that -- no need for flash or SL.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, no, we don't get the same level of competition with open-source only. As long as there's an opportunity for big gains (like in this case to bridge the gap before html 5 era...to satisfy demand), there will be innovations driven by that. I believe we all benefit from a free market economy that includes commercial, closed source, innovations. I am more scared of the possible future...
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- Kari Honkanen
I wouldn't worry too much amount multimedia. By exposing WebGL, (and hopefully OpenCL), you can offload a lot of compute intensive stuff onto the GPU via GPGPU techniques, and NativeClient is there to take up the rest of the slack, but the for the vast majority of iPhone-like games, I'm willing to bet V8 Javascript on a modern processor is more than enough. That leaves licensing issues...
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- Ray Cromwell
Paul, so are you saying that Google will block both Flash and Silverlight from ChromeOS? That's a new take on 'open.'
- Cliff Gerrish
MSFT next smart move: get Chrome OS (it's BSD licensed), inject IE9 and Silverlight into it and go benchmark against Chrome :)
- Claudio Cicali ♋
MSFT sucks Claudio :)
- Orlando Pozo
Something feels contradictory about a system touted to 'kill' competitors being 'open'. Sounds almost predatory to me.
- Karoli
I'm not opposed to non-open software, but for OS, browser, etc I prefer that it be open. Cliff, Google isn't going to "block" anything, but they can certainly choose what to include, and my guess is that they won't include SL. As Claudio points out, MSFT can make their own version of ChromeOS that includes SL, which is why open source software is nice (it can't be crippled too much or else someone will fork it).
- Paul Buchheit
I have heard somewhere that Fash uses it's own port where Silverlight works over the HTTP port. That's why Netflix works so well. To that, Flash costs more on a sever side because providers can charge more for that port traffic. Could it come down to who is cheaper? (I am fully prepared to be wrong).
- Johnny Worthington
Johnny, they both use HTTP -- there's no difference there.
- Paul Buchheit
Is Chrome OS BSD-licensed? I thought it was using a Linux kernel.
- Victor Ganata
@Paul - well, Flash can do P2P stuff over non-HTTP posts, but that is very new (Flash 10 I think). The cost isn't affected anyway.
- Nick Lothian
My understanding is that netbooks would have to be absurdly popular for Chrome OS to make a dent in the popularity of Flash or SL.
- Gabe
it is possible to have smaller groups for open source software, such as google's own gears api http://code.google.com/apis...
- Mike Chelen
How is HTML 5 going to defeat Flash and SL? I haven't used it, but I don't see anything in the spec that looks like it could compare.
- Gabe
@Gabe - what do you think HTML5 is missing? It does video, drawing, local storage, "threading" via WebWorkers. The biggest hole I'm aware of is the lack of access to webcams & microphones. What have I missed?
- Nick Lothian
Nick: When you say HTML 5 has "drawing", are you refering to the Canvas element? I would not consider an immediate-mode procedural raster drawing library to be much of a competitor to retained-mode declarative vector libraries like SVG or Silverlight. Programming with the Canvas tag is sort of the equivalent of programming in assembly language for bitmaps.
- Gabe
@Gabe: I think you've got it upside-down. A Canvas-style API is the fundamental basis on which you can build a retained mode structure like SVG, et al. If a platform includes a retained-mode library as a convenience, so be it. You can build SVG on Canvas, but not the other way around (hacks like IECanvas notwithstanding -- they have horrible performance characteristics and are a nasty abstraction inversion).
- Joel Webber
So, if Moonlight (Mono) runs on linux -- Will google make sure it doesn't work on Chrome OS?
- Cliff Gerrish
Joel: I don't think you said anything contrary to what I said. I just don't understand why any programmer would want to waste time writing an app using a low-level library when I could use a high-level library that implements everything for me.
- Gabe
@Gabe - I agree, and people are implementing those libraries now. See http://raphaeljs.com/ for example. Also, don't underestimate the convenience factor. I don't own any Flash development tools, but my text editor works pretty well for Canvas+JS based stuff.
- Nick Lothian
Nick: Didn't the author of raphael have some massive rant about how bad the Canvas element is? And I don't have any Flash dev tools either, but I use a text editor for most of my Silverlight development. It is incredibly convenient to be able to type something like <DataGrid ItemsSource="{Binding tabledata}"/> into a text editor and not have to create the data grid myself.
- Gabe
Why is Flash a "necessity" for an OS? I enjoy what flash can do, but it is like putting pimped out leather Oldsmobile seats in a Ferrari. It would definitely be nice, but certainly not a necessity.
- Dan Douglass
Early post goof up. To your original point, I agree. I like how Google is approaching the internet space with web apps that can be run with out a bloated browser.
- Dan Douglass
Dan Douglass: Flash is necessary because so many web sites rely on it. How many people would want to get a netbook that couldn't play FaceBook games or watch YouTube videos? Of course Google is in the unique position of being able to make YouTube work on ChromeOS without Flash, but they probably can't do anything about Hulu, Vimeo, or any of the other video sites out there that require Flash.
- Gabe
Anyone else think Joy is Spam?
- Chris Myles
already reported it yesterday :)
- Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
from IM
Super cool of Sinofsky to give out free Chrome OS hardware to everyone at #pdc09 this year!
Shakeel Mahate liked this
The fail whale is really the success whale. Struggling to keep a service running with that growth is a nice problem to have.
Rohit Khare, Shakeel Mahate, Bruce Lewis and 4 other people liked this
Increasingly Horrified Man Listens To Self Explain What He Does For A Living - http://www.theonion.com/content...
Felicia Yue, Tomas Remotigue, Shakeel Mahate and 10 other people liked this
"Dawning horror tinged with self-loathing crept slowly over the face of claims adjuster Robert Pettlebaum, 42, as he described his job and by extension his life to others during a seemingly innocuous Tuesday lunch meeting. "Mostly what I do is I seek out discrepancies in the property appraisal versus the claimant's estimate of worth and then I…then I defer outpays…with…oh, God…," Pettlebaum said as shadows of unspeakable self-realization flickered across his increasingly desperate eyes. "Wait, no, that can't be right. I don't…do I?" Pettlebaum's mounting terror was met with incomprehension and nervous laughter from his companions, who sources indicated have anywhere between three weeks and 27 years before realizing their own existences are as desolate and barren as his."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
I worked for State Farm (Insurance defense) for 4+ years - this sounds so true it's scary
- Susan Beebe
An early birthday present: The Gmail Javascript compiler was just open-sourced! http://code.google.com/closure... (it compiles JS into smaller, faster JS)
Mona Nomura, Uğur Aslan, seyithanyener and 115 other people liked this
We first started work on it almost 8 years ago. It has come a long way since then :)
- Paul Buchheit
Happy Birthday Paul!
- AJ Batac
Today is actually just my internet birthday.
- Paul Buchheit
Well, thanks :) But for a verbose API I'll stick with YUI :P Have to inspect the power of templating and compiler, though.
- Claudio Cicali ♋
I wonder what happens when you apply it recursively -- can you get down to 1 byte of code that takes no time to execute? ;=)
- Brian Sullivan
Finally! This is great.
- Tudor Bosman
Happy Birthday!
- Robert Scoble
Nice!
- Micah Wittman
Unfortunately it looks like the internationalization features may be missing. I wonder why those were removed? (or if I'm just not seeing it)
- Paul Buchheit
Paul you are my best-friend :`(
- Onur Gündüz
if you were starting a new site today, would you use this over jquery (which friendfeed uses)?
- Karl Rosaen
Karl, jquery is a library, this is a compiler. I would use them both.
- Paul Buchheit
well, i mean closure library :) but yeah, they could be used together
- Karl Rosaen
ah, i see this is a link closure compiler, not the broader closure tools.
- Karl Rosaen
Refactoring, JS style.
- Gabe
Now, this is a good news
- Ozkan Altuner
@Paul the Closure project has three components: compiler, library, and template language. Looks like the Closure/library might be competing with jQuery.
- Shakeel Mahate
this is sweet!
- Jay
I think jQuery does a lot of stuff that might confuse the compiler, e.g. iterating over an array of string function names and creating new function wrappers (look at the way the parent/child/next/prev/etc functions get installed) The Closure library is also full of type annotations that help the compiler make better optimization choices, so you're likely to get a better compiled outcome using Closure than jQuery + fixes + compiler
- Ray Cromwell
@paul -- I know you've been wanting this opensourced for a long time. sorry it took such a long time. Nick Santos and the jscompiler team has finally done it! Cheers!
- Jing Lim
Happy Birthday
- ashish
Many happy returns!!
- Cry Zee Die Noh Mite
Happy Birthday, Paul!
- Andrew Terry
Happy Birthday Paul
- Sandeep Kalidindi
Happy B'day Paul! don't be evil :)
- sirishkumar
Congratulations to the team (and @Paul & Jing) -- I know everyone's been waiting a long time for this. For anyone considering whether to use jQuery vs Closure, consider that they're meant for largely different purposes. jQuery's good for enhancing static web pages; Closure's much better at building large apps. And as Ray points out above, Closure the library is going to get much better results from Closure the compiler than an arbitrary js library would, because of all the type annotations.
- Joel Webber
Paul Buchheit has been at the top of my best of pages all month. Rock on, Paul.
- Donald C. Lindsay
Hey HAPPY BIRTHDAY PAUL !!! Cool present!! <insert CAKE> :D
- Susan Beebe
Paul, any comment on this write up? http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs...
- Sachin
That writeup is trolling for traffic IMHO. Nit picking 50 lines out of 200+ thousand (written for readability, which get compiled and optimized), providing no benchmarks for claims, and spending half the time bashing Java, it just seems to be struggling to find something wrong with Closure.
- Ray Cromwell
Sachin: he seems to be commenting on Closure the JS library, not Closure the JS compiler (that Paul's post was about). And he may be a douchebag, but I haven't seen anything I disagree with.
- Gabe
@Sachin: I hate to be too harsh, but that post is pretty much garbage. From what I can tell he's pretty much managed to enumerate some of the worst things about Javascript -- nitpicking the code for referencing "undefined" directly without declaring it as an uninitialized local? That's insane. Following this advice is mostly a recipe for an unreadable mess. Also, look in the comments for several refutations of the idea that some of these are even optimizations.
- Joel Webber
Joel, you're just not man enough to handle a language where 'top' is an implicitly reserved keyword, and 'undefined' which should be, isn't. But it could be worse, 'null' could be something you could override. :)
- Ray Cromwell
Huh, http://www.webpagetest.org/ is really cool. The data dump you get is quite impressive. Thanks @souders. http://www.webpagetest.org/result...
Shakeel Mahate liked this
Amazon's Denim Shop has launched with free shipping and returns http://www.amazon.com/b...
Shakeel Mahate liked this
Like working with developers? Like working with Google products? Looking for a dream job? Check here: http://www.linkedin.com/jobs...
Shakeel Mahate liked this
The Story of Google's Closure: Advanced JavaScript Tools (by @louisgray) - http://blog.louisgray.com/2009...
Shakeel Mahate and Louis Gray liked this
Happy Birthday to Paul Buchheit!
chaz2b, Mitchell Tsai, 2yuz.com and 88 other people liked this
Nice.
- Fulaan, inna Hebel
Happy Birthday, Paul! And thank you for FF. It's being a great help to me just now.
- MaryB, BrandingBroadOfFF
Happy birthday!
- Becca
Got the image here: http://www.labnol.org/interne...
- AJ Batac
Writing "Don't be evil" 500 times..penance for selling out to Zuckerberg? :) Happy birthday, Paul!
- Alex Schleber
Happy Birthday!
- Shevonne
;) so many birthdays this week. Happy B-day Paul!
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
I just opened the link and I'm kind of astounded. I had no idea what a deep influence Paul had over at Google. Created GMail? I am in awe. That plus Friendfeed and many other accomplishments. Happy birthday, Paul. I know we get fussy here sometimes about you, but that's only because we love so much what you helped create, and we're terrified at the thought of it vanishing.
- Kamilah Gill
Happy Birthday, Paul!
- Anne Bouey
Happy Birthday, Paul!
- Kevin Fox
Huge happy b-day PB
- Christopher Galtenberg
Happy Birthday Paul
- Helen Sventitsky
Happy birthday, Paul!
- Tödd Nëmët
The Closure Compiler can't crunch the latest jQuery nightly, apparently it's recursive function calls. http://code.google.com/p...
Shakeel Mahate and Micah Wittman liked this
17.6. multiprocessing — Process-based “threading” interface — Python v2.6.4 documentation - http://docs.python.org/library...
Tudor Bosman, Ozkan Altuner, sirishkumar and 16 other people liked this
"multiprocessing is a package that supports spawning processes using an API similar to the threading module. The multiprocessing package offers both local and remote concurrency, effectively side-stepping the Global Interpreter Lock by using subprocesses instead of threads. Due to this, the multiprocessing module allows the programmer to fully leverage multiple processors on a given machine. It runs on both Unix and Windows."
- Jim Norris
from Bookmarklet
Spooky. I have had this page open in a browser window for the past week.
- Gabe
Interesting. I was not aware that Python has multiprocessing lib. Can someone teach me how commonly this module used by pythonista? For example, is FriendFeed using it? The best part I like about Java is its java.util.concurrent package and I wish I could add this kind of feature to Ruby someday. (I'm nahi at ruby-lang.org, one of a std-lib committer)
- NaHi
from f2p
I wasn't aware of it either, and I don't think it's commonly used, but it's pretty interesting. FriendFeed mainly uses Tornado's nonblocking event-driven architecture along with a little bit of multithreading.
- Jim Norris
I had stumbled upon this a few weeks ago; works great for those cases where you want to take some else's (potentially non multi-* aware) code and throw it across all of your cores.
- Eric Borisch
Jim: Thanks for comment. I found that multiprocessing module is bundled as a std-lib from Python 2.6 (2008-10-01, PEP 371). Widely adoption is yet to come and you picked this as a topic; I've understood now. And for me it's interesting to know that FriendFeed mainly uses Tornado's events for background jobs. Jobs I thought are search indexer, keyword matcher, index table updater, cleaner, etc. I thought these jobs needs to be passivated/backup-ed and restored but it may not be needed by careful design.
- NaHi
from f2p
Have a question? Tried googling it on Bing? Maybe you should tweet it on Facebook too.
Natthu Bharambe, Louis Gray, Kol Tregaskes and 18 other people liked this
Excuse me while I xerox this on my canon.
- Jim Norris
I'm gonna digg this up on Friendfeed.
- Info Glutton
Too many failed API integrations. BING!
- Mona Nomura
..Just vark it on Y! Answers.
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
Btw I stole part of this for my most recent Tweet - but I gave you proper credit. Thanks.
- Mona Nomura
I am working on my Mac PC.
- Shakeel Mahate
The slides from steve @souders "Fast by Default" talk at Amazon last Friday http://stevesouders.com/docs...
Deepak Singh and Shakeel Mahate liked this
xkcd - Movie Narrative Charts - http://xkcd.com/657/
Amit Patel, Shakeel Mahate, Kemal Hadimli and 11 other people liked this
there's a pumpkin shortage. So if you need something scary for your porch, just get home delivery of the new york times.
Liviu Barbat and Shakeel Mahate liked this
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