@directeur Well race -- it's just a social construct. At the end of the day, we're all human, flesh and blood. Race is just a factor of the power imbalance in the world -- created along ethnic lines. - Shey
@Shey: I'm white but look at my avatar :) I have so much respect for every nice man/woman in this earth. The race things is because we "generally" have eyes. How do blind people "see" the race thing? See what I mean? :) - directeur via NoiseRiver
Blind people see the race thing just like everyone else really does, as a cultural values thing. Even blind people know glorifying living in the ghetto and pimpin' hos is probably not a good idea from a social context. - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
Awesome post, Shey. I'm glad people actually posted about this. - Rahsheen Porter
I had never seen the video at the end... doesn't surprise me though - Bwana McCall
I have to ask though; isn't this a year old why all the heat now? I had no idea who this guy was until Corvida and You posted about it. Maybe as a black bloggger it would only seem right if i expressed my 2 cents on it too - Gordon Swaby
Alexander's comment is exactly the problem racism yields. There is no "Black Culture" that glorifies "pimping hoes" or living in the ghetto. What you see on TV, and what is reality are not the same. The idea that Blacks have "lower cultural values" is at the core of racist ideology. - Jasmin Smith
Gordon, I never saw it recently either, literally a couple weeks ago. Blog away if you like :) - Shey
Key race is the human race! The rest is just details. - Mark Forman
Somebody apparently dug it up. Probably when they found out about the Verizon deal. I read somewhere that he had pissed of some other people before this, so they could possibly have had something to do with it. - Rahsheen Porter
One of the things I like about FriendFeed is that it proves Loren's video assertion (comical or otherwise) is untrue. That there are black nerds and bloggers and are adding to the conversation. It is very refreshing to me to hear from black people and women on the internet. I like to get a better sampling of "people" not middle-aged white men. All I need for that one is the mirror or listening to my own thoughts. - Mark Forman
Funny you should say that, Jasmin, because that's the culture black cultural entrepreneurs are selling. Look at urban culture in general and look to who produces it. Largely middle-class blacks from urban homes. If we can't expect they know what best sells to their home communities, who can we? - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
The comment I made on the Mashable post was that in competitive improv, we were taught never to go for the "easy" humor because it's not respectable and its not sustainable. All Loren Feldman has going for him is an easy laugh obtained from a sea of classless appreciators. He deserved to get this ripped away from him. - Jennifer Leggio
OK Alexander. Let's look at the So-Called Black Music Industry (Specifically hip hop/R&B. Who creates and markets it... white men... who buys it.. white kids... - Jasmin Smith
Well said Mark. I need to ask how long ago did he get the "verizion deal"? Because i was watching one of his videos where he was commenting on it and he lauded himself for getting the deal; seemed a tad bit excited, must have been a shame to lose it. - Gordon Swaby
@Shey, sadly racism is alive and well in America. Your post was spot-on. Bravos! - Dave Martin
I defy someone to find me another place - online or in the real world - that facilitates conversations like this about topics as sensitive as this. You find me a place where people regularly express the thoughts and ideas that have been expressed above about a topic like this and I will frequent it every bit as often as I do Friend Feed (ok maybe not EVERY bit - there are only so many hours in a day...) - Marco
Marco, absolutely - this is why I can`t stop blogging about FriendFeed :) - Shey
It would be good if my question was answered, please and thank you. - Gordon Swaby
Thanks Dave, unfortunately there are many who turn a blind eye or will even deny it. - Shey
@Dave Martin Racism is alive and well here in Canada too. Don't even get me started.. especially when it comes to how Canada has treated and continues to treat our Aboriginal people. Sadly, unless you've experienced the negative effects of racism directly, it's difficult to understand the lived experiences of people who are discriminated against SOLELY because of the colour of their skin... not their "lack of moral character" as our friend Alexander has mistakenly suggested. - Jasmin Smith
Jasmin, you must be living in an interesting parallel world. I think I can say with some comfortable surety at least in the context of Atlanta's hip hop media and entertainment industry that it's very, very predominantly a black enterprise. White kids may be buying it up in bulk, but that's because there are a lot of white kids and somewhat fewer black kids. Thus the term "minority." - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
Wow.. I saw this friend feed post and it sent me on a wild tangent through the web to Corvida's site and to the TechCrunch article that I somehow missed. Glad to see things come back around regardless of who the target was. - Adam Helweh
Unfortunately I think Feldman and his "shock jock" nature will try to capitalize on this negative publicity somehow. :-/ - Jennifer Leggio
Alex, I live in Canada, thanks.... but in your country, (America I presume) the Hip Hop industry is overwhelming supported by young white kids, and financially backed by their older white "parents and grandparents." While Black men and women stand as the figureheads in the industry, with the exception of a few big names, the money goes into the hands of the top execs.. who are predominately White. - Jasmin Smith
@Alexander, I am an artist in Atlanta. I know many other artists in Atlanta. The problem is that these artists talk about what they live. The big record companies help to market and glorify these things. White kids support this industry. The record companies put the black artists in positions where it looks like they run the show, but they are just managers/supervisors...not CEO's. - Rahsheen Porter
and while we're on the issue of "minorities" -- it has nothing to do with numbers and EVERYTHING to do with which groups hold the POWER in society. Racism is then perpetuated through the maintenance of these power structures along "racial lines" -- promoting stereotypes to denigrate racial minorities, all the while elevate whiteness to "the norm" (intentionally and unintentionally) which further stratifies society... - Jasmin Smith
Jennifer-who's to say he isn't the one to instigate the Verizon protest issue. It's possible that Verizon deal not so great and he hoped to generate even more publicity through this brouhaha. Hard to say when you're dealing with performance artist that is comfortable using "shock." Anything is possible. Loren might be many things but certainly dumb isn't one of them. - Mark Forman
@Mark It's quite possible. But hopefully since his notoriety is in limited circles a respectable mainstream business would realize there is more detriment than value to dealing with him. Again, the operative word being "hope." - Jennifer Leggio
So, if the "black culture" Loren parodies (well or poorly) in his video is created by, marketed by, consumed by, and enjoyed by whites, is it racist then to mock? Because, Hell, it ain't black at all by that measure and any REAL black person'd know he couldn't POSSIBLY be talking about them, right? Or are we assuming that since blacks aren't competent, driven, or cunning enough to produce the cultural artefacts credited to them (by your assertion), they're clearly too weak to take some parody and need to be protected by our doting, paternal culture? - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
With the video at the end. Spot on. Sometimes you get off the hook, sometimes there are consequences. Now he met some. - Roland Hesz
Alex, your opinion truly illuminates what is wrong with race relations in (the) America(s). Because you, and people like you have ignorantly bought into the stereotypes about Blacks (and no doubt other minorities) you fail to understand the social significance that your type of ignorance causes. It's too much to get into here. I'll sum it up in a blog post later. - Jasmin Smith
That was great to read Shey. I've felt the same way, all the stuff I've read being posted in his defense stinks of ignorance. How anyone can even stand to watch a single video by the guy is beyond me. His smug expression intolerable. His blatant bigotry is sickening. - Tsega D
It's really mind-boggling how impossible it is to actually explain race issues to people who have not lived them - Rahsheen Porter
@Jennifer, We can only hope that Feldman does call further attention to this situation, that he does attempt to rally and in that process out those like thinkers who support his plainly racist notions of humor and entertainment. We can not let this stand. We have the collective power to turn his cavalier dismissal into an indictment. We have the responsibility to call to account any advertiser that supports what is now a history of racist stereotyping for profit. If not us, who? If not now, when? - Dave Martin
OMG the irony of the video! LOL, yah he's a total loser. - Trula
@Dave I not once implied that we shouldn't continue to raise the issue. Nor do I have any doubt that Feldman will continue to fan the flames himself. My comment was merely about how I hope he does not profit from the increased notoriety this situation has caused. Not sure where you got the other part. - Jennifer Leggio
@Alexander No matter how they originate, the stereotypes end up hurting racially. When someone who's just met me jokes about not bringing a crack pipe, or when an Ivy League school president is followed around a store to make sure she won't steal anything, if you can visualize someone being negatively impacted, do you visualize a white person? How about anyone of the same "race" as the one working off the stereotype? - MiniMage
@Jennifer, by his own hand let him come to be known for what he defends and let his supporters and fellow travelers be named. I learned as a child it was a good thing the KKK sported the cover of sheets, it told us who they were. - Dave Martin
@Dave OK, I am not nor never disagreed with you. Just think you missed my point. Regardless, we're on the same side, so we can stop wasting Shey's quality convo space. :) - Jennifer Leggio
Closed circuit to Feldman: A quote by the great philosopher king Mike Tyson seems apropos here, think about it..."Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." - Dave Martin
Alexander: "Black culture" isn't monolithic; what you're describing is a substrate of hip-hop culture. Is that substrate unusually visible? Well, yeah... white kids in search of rebellion-by-proxy lap it up, making the artists in question enormously successful, which in turn attracts those in the black community who are starved for signs of economic and societal success. It's a big, complicated puzzle... not a simple matter of glorification. - Roger Benningfield
Roger, if only I could "Like" a comment :) - Rahsheen Porter
@Shey Great post. Thanks for sharing your feelings on this issue. Unfortunately, these discussions just show how far we have left to go and how much we white people have to learn. - swhitley
Amazed by all the people still saying that it's not racist. As you know it's easy to say when you're not the target of the ridicule.It really doesn't matter because corporate America doesn't like controversy. It's as simple as that. - Kenya Allmond
It seems to me that this is a classic proof that yes, words really do have consequences. Feldman likes to swagger, talk tough, and put on this macho act about how he's the only guy with big enough balls to say things other folks would rather not hear. But now that he's pissed people off enough that there are actual consequences, he says it was "satire" and complains that people are too easily offended. Well, wasn't it part of his goal to offend people? If you're going to play bad boy, play it all the way. - nathan
I have only recently come to learn of Loren Feldman - and now I wish I hadn't. I know he works to rub everyone up the wrong way, but his lack of understanding on matters is vapid to non-existent. I hadn't heard of his potentially racist path, but somehow it doesn't surprise me. - Jake Fudge
nathan-bingo-like the wise man said,"You can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?" - Mark Forman
I'm continuously amused by the number of people who decry Loren's comments as racist and essentially call for his lynching. If we add up the number of people suggesting that black people need protection from such hurtful words with the people suggesting such things should never be said and never be allowed to be said, it becomes rapidly clear that racism may be the issue on the table but freedom of speech, especially for those whose messages you virulently oppose, is the one under the table like a gun levelled at one's midsection. "White culture" is just as monolithic as "black culture" in these comments, for what it's worth, but one is an opressive manifestation of racism and the other is hand-wringing. Seems to me the problem isn't what Loren said, or how he said it, but a lot of excuses to pose before public opinion and try to look good. Pfeh. - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
"The difference is, those guys are actually funny.
Everyone keeps complaining about how this moron is being censored. He's not being censored. He can go peddle his crap anywhere he wants. Verizon just wanted no parts of the guy. You can't blame them. It's strictly business.
This is one company, with one service, who decides they don't want to carry the guy being called racist by a lot of folks." - Rahsheen Porter
SeattlePi: "Flickr users, many of whom are amateurs, will be paid in the same manner as professionals if their images are used commercially. Getty customers usually pay between $29 and $200,000 for an image, depending on how freely they may use it. Photographers receive 30 percent to 40 percent of the licensing fee if the customer's rights to use the image are limited in scope or time, or 20 percent if the image may be used with fewer restrictions." - Thomas Hawk
Sounds good to me, would be nice to make a little bit of money... Being that my current income is somewhere around nothing... - Grant Bierman
i guess we'll hear more complaints from "pros" about having more competition and how hard it is to make a living. - ramil
@grant bierman : don't count on it though. you'll be competing with bajillions of other flickr users, in addition to the seasoned pros. your photo really has to stand out. - ramil
I'll be curious as to how seriously Getty markets the "Flickr" collection. The cynic might say that Getty is simply locking in Flickr away from competitors, especially #2 Corbis which is 100% owned by Bill Gates (which would make for an interesting play if MSFT acquired Yahoo). Whether or not Getty seriously markets these images or is simply playing lipservice remains to be seen. - Thomas Hawk
Current Getty photographers are probably pissed as hell about a new bunch of amateurs joining their ranks. Getty has always put a chasm the size of the Grand Canyon between their Pro work and the "substandard" work of amateurs who have all been directed to iStockphoto where they can sell their image for $1. It will be interesting to watch how they finally handle the admission that many amateurs are in fact just as good as the Pros. - Thomas Hawk
i doubt this leads to much for either group. yahoo doesn't own the world's largest collection of images. they own the best site for image sharing. we own our images. yahoo/flickr can't make a deal to sell our images. they can make a deal with getty to give getty better access to our images and our data. getty still has to talk to us about getting permission to sell our images. and what kind of headache is this going to create for getty? how many images on flickr have proper releases? how many photographers on flickr have any idea what a release is? i just don't know if this is anything more than hot air. it's a smart move to go through the collection and collect the best images they can, but i truly wonder just how many images it will end up being. - sam b-r
@ramil Yeah I know, it's best pretty much treat it as a lottery. You might win, but there is a whole lot of other players, so just enjoy the ride and not worry about it. - Grant Bierman
Sam, very good points. I too wonder how seriously they will take this. And I also wonder how this will sit with the Flickr community when a few get selected to make money and most do not. Still, I'm excited about the potential of the deal and think that if it's done right this could be a great avenue for Flickr photographers to begin earning money from their photos. So much is still to be determined. I hope it's not lip service or hot air. - Thomas Hawk
I'd prefer that flickr just roll out a feature that a) lets me mark which of my photos I want to and CAN sell (have the appropriate releases, resolution and such). b). exposes a tool/service/whatever so that other people can easily query flickr for photos c.) handles payments for me. - ramil
ramil: I agree. I don't understand why Flickr hasn't rolled something out like this already. - Justin Korn
Ramil, Flickr's not equipped to handle the administration of the stock photography business and Yahoo likely would not be willing to take on the liability. Also Getty is ahead of anyone else as far as marketing stock photography goes today. They are the 800 pound gorilla. Partnering probably makes more sense. - Thomas Hawk
I don't mean that they'll handle marketing too. Just that, the tools they're exposing to Getty could be exposed to other stock photo companies as well.......I guess that is indeed a nightmare to manage. - ramil
I agree with ramil but Tom is right. Flickr, to me, might not have the ways to do stock photos. - Outsanity
I wonder how much of Getty's decision to partner with Flickr was defensive, i.e. if MSFT were to get Flickr #2 Corbis which is 100% owned by Bill Gates would probably be better positioned to do a deal with Flickr than a Yahoo owned Flickr. - Thomas Hawk
Thomas: Is there any mention of who approached whom and when? I'm assuming Getty initiated it and if so, is there any reason to believe it was NOT a defensive move? - Justin Korn
@Thomas "I wonder how much of Getty's decision to partner with Flickr was defensive" That sounds quite plausible, in which case, I'm skeptical that Getty will take this venture seriously, or only go through the motions to get their toe in the water so to speak. I'm also a little concerned about the rather low 20-40% cut that the photographer will receive. If that is the case, I would expect a significant amount of marketing and management services to be provided by Getty. - Jeff P. Henderson
Justin, no way to know. But I'm sure Getty and Flickr have been talking for years. When I met with the Getty BD people up in Seattle two years ago they told me about meetings with Flickr even way back then. My guess is Yahoo/Flickr was the hold out more than Getty. There was a rumor for a while that Yahoo was trying to buy their own stock agency. Could be that Getty sweetened the deal enough to keep Flickr out of the hands of Corbis, especially in light of a potential MSFT YHOO acquisition. - Thomas Hawk
What worries me about the deal is that it has the potential for Getty to make a deal and then just put it out on an island and not market it in order to appease their current stock pros who might jump ship and go to Corbis, etc. Plus I'm sure Flickr gets a cut and so they may make less money selling Flickr images than other Getty images. Who knows though, this is all total speculation. It will be interesting to see how it plays out though and I'm excited about the news and potential. - Thomas Hawk
I've always believed that Getty bought iStockphoto purely as a defensive play and purposely marketed it miles away from their Pros or fair prices for photos. it was giving lip service to the growing ranks of weekend warrior amateurs while keeping a potential serious competitor out of the business. - Thomas Hawk
What is funny is that iStockphoto in fact did steal business away from Getty's more lucrative high end core business. So their defensive move ended up shooting them selves in the foot so to speak. What photo buyers realized is that there were just as good quality photos in IStockphoto for a fraction of the cost. If Getty tries to categorize the Flickr photos into their high end portfolio, it may be a defensive move to try to gain back the high end market share they lost to iStock. - Jeff P. Henderson
I think this would make more sense if the majority of the accepted Flickr photos are sold through iStock. Otherwise, I feel the stakes are to high for Getty. The old pros could jump ship as Thomas writes. To appease the pros, Getty might see an opportunity to pay the Flickr photographers less than the old pros, and increasing their earnings. It's hard to predict how the different categories of people (pros, Flickr photogs, customers etc) will react to this deal. - Henrik Johansson
maybe they'll reduce the price to something reasonable, like something not $400+ per image - Bjorn Tipling
Thanks for the extra info on this deal Thomas, you've answered a few of the questions I'd posted elsewhere on another FF thread on this subject. Do you know if Getty is looking to boost its creative or editorial business with this or both. Do they see this as an answer to the Yahoo/Reuters iwitness style deal that was recently announced or more as a way to cut costs and boost their creative/illustrative businesses? - Jon Dillon
Do I have to relicense my photos, or does Getty want to pick ones and purchase them from me? - Andrew Feinberg
OH! how i wish for that future world you painted for me thomas, of zooomr's {original} "marketplace"... a real website where users had the power to take on stock image companies... for a second i thought that was what might be happening at flickr, but i'm still holding out for that ideal world.... i daydream about it sometimes.... - djp
Jon, I think this is a win for Getty largely because it will increase their breadth. Flickr has so many more images. When Choice Hotels licensed my Grand Lake Theater photo they did that directly with me because they found the image on Google Image search. Do a search for Grand Lake at Getty and you get nothing. This allows more meaningful search at Getty which will solidify them more as a first choice to look for photos with image buyers. - Thomas Hawk
@Henrik, Getty would be shooting themselves in the foot even more if they were to market Flickr photos though iStockphoto. It would further cannibalize their high end business. If you read the link I posted above it indicates that they will be selling Flickr photos along side their existing high end pro photos with a similar or the same pricing structure. What they are trying to do is keep from loosing sales from customers who are going directly to Flickr photographers instead of to Getty. - Jeff P. Henderson
Andrew, not sure how the relicensing might work. Details will be coming out in the next few months though I suspect. djp. yeah, Zooomr's original marketplace idea was a pretty good one. Photrade has a similar one in beta right now. Photographers get 80%. But neither Photrade nor Zooomr have the marketing clout of Getty in this business. I'm not saying one's better than the other. Much of it might depend on how well Getty ends up marketing this collection. - Thomas Hawk
My guess is that Flickr has a significantly larger selection of images in many categories. Savy Getty customers know this and go to Flickr to find what they want when they can't find it at Getty. Getty is smart to try to leverage this. I'm sure Getty knows better than anyone else where their collection is lacking and will be looking to Flickr to fill the voids. A smart move on their part. If they are doing this to fill voids, it should not piss off their existing pro photographers too much. - Jeff P. Henderson
Thomas: You underestimate istock far to much. If you look at sales volume, istock outranks Getty sales. While some photos are amateur, some are as professional as any at Getty. Each has their own niche. - CJPhoto
@Jeff: But what about those photos subjects that are already well serviced by the pros. Is there going to be some way of filtering out Flickr from your Getty search? If I search for the Effiel Tower on Getty, I get some great shots... Search on Flickr and you get some fairly average ones. Is Getty in danger of diluting it's photos catalogue and therefore souring their reputation for high quality? - John Worthington
Marketplace was the reason why I originally choose Zooomr rather than Flickr. Now that Photrade has started it will be interesting to see if they ever get the numbers to make it a viable. Why doesn't Flickr just do it themselves? You don't need the marketing clout of Getty when you are Flickr! - CJPhoto
@CJPhoto, This is precisely why I believe that Getty will market Flickr photos along side their existing high end line and not through iStock. Buying iStock was a defensive move that ultimately hurt Getty's bottom line. - Jeff P. Henderson
CJ, iStockphoto has huge volume but never made any significant money. The real money at Getty was always made by their core traditional business. Getty kept the two as far apart as they possibly could. I agree with you though many of their photos are just as good as Getty's Pro stuff. - Thomas Hawk
@John, my guess it that Getty will be very selective as to what photos they choose from Flickr to add to their collection. Your example would suggest they already have an adequate number of Eiffel tower images, so they would not be looking for any from Flickr. This selective approach will not dilute their exiting catalog, but will only fill in where they have voids. - Jeff P. Henderson
While Flickr could "do it themselves" with a Photrade model, my guess is that they simply don't want to do the work or build the infrastructure necessary to compete in what is largely seen as a declining business. They probably also were afraid of the liability associated with screw ups and looked at Getty as the best in the business at this after coming to the conclusion that they didn't want to buy or build themselves. - Thomas Hawk
Getty likely gets to fill in holes in their library, add much greater depth to their search, and they probably have a contract that locks Flickr into an exclusive deal keeping them out of the hands of Corbis in the event of a MSFT buyout of Yahoo. - Thomas Hawk
These deals are rarely useful to the photographers. The trend is usually, sell your image for dimes with exclusive rights for ever and ever. - Mário Pires
There are forms of communication Congressional Democrats AREN'T aiming to censor? Scratch that, "Congressmen" aren't ... No man's life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness is safe while Congress is in session. - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
You guys should go re-read this post, along with the posts by O'Reilly, Masnick and Aaron Brazell (including his second update). Rizzn, I'm afraid you've wildly misinterpreted what that one guy, Capuano, was trying to say. - Eric Eldon
He's trying to enforce House rules with the intention to censor. He could have written a letter asking to relax these rules, but he didn't. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Heh. Thanks, Veronica. I tried to clearly mark the "boring" and "interesting" parts so that I'd have a better shot at folks making it to the end of the article. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
I don't get it. Currently the making of official posts (including videos) can only be on the government site. The letter proposes ways to allow posting elsewhere, but with care to avoid association with advertising and political material. So there is no addition of restrictions. They are proposing ways to relax the current ones for posting of videos. So yes, that is a knee-jerk post. - Dennis E. Hamilton via twhirl
I also believe that the blogosphere and especially Twitter were "played" by repetitious tweets that kept making the same mis-statement. - Dennis E. Hamilton via twhirl
I am rarely on Twitter and Culberson isn't on FriendFeed. I didn't see his repetitive tweets til much later. I got my news via back channel then saw Culbersons tweets. I read Techdirt and others including Mashable. I'm very much aligned with Mark on this one... While I don't believe it's partisan, per se, it's somewhat appalling that House leadership would go out of their way to squash the ability of Congressmen to talk directly to their constituency without throwing road blocks. That's my beef with it - Aaron Brazell
Did anyone read the letter? It was obviously supporting the use of these technologies to communicate with a constituency. It was simply stating that it should be done in a way within the rules. When a citizen goes to find information they want to know it is true and from the source they are seeking it. There is no guarantee the congressperson on twitter IS that person unless offically sanctioned in some fashion. That's the point! Use the tech but make it so citizens can know it is official. - aka Taylor
It's supporting them in a backhanded way. It's saying "let's create a whitelist." That's censorship, I'm afraid. That means there's a whole lot of places that won't be sanctioned, if the rules are enforced. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
No it's saying lets make sure there are official places where citizens to go where they know they are getting official information. Because I know I'd think twice about believeing 'GWBush' on Twitter when he tweets all apple fans are to be branded with the Apple logo. At least until I went to whitehouse.gov and saw we were to report to the rose garden at 8am. It's not censorship to create a place where citizens know they are getting something real and official. - aka Taylor
think of it like this...i can't go to the 7 Eleven to get an official drivers license. The one I buy from the guy there might have all the right information ... don't make it official...or real. - aka Taylor
What i'd like to see is the gov to invent a token or graphic or something that they can use on a site that denotes an official status. Owner of said site would be required to verify anyone using said token is the official they say they are but that way a congressperson could utilize in new and cutting edge sites instead of having to wait for a site to be "approved". A portable token would give officials more flexibility while still creating credentials...doesn't solve the advertising issue though... - aka Taylor
Here's a question: where does the private citizen end and the representative begin? - Andrew Feinberg
It is, however, censorship to say that a private citizen (ie. a Congresscritter) can't speak officially wherever they please. If they want to speak officially on Twitter, that's their concern. If they want it likely to be recognized as such they'll have to be supported by authoritative sources as deemed by the audience. Mandating authoritative sources may be governmental, but it's a still a regulation of free speech. - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
"I stated clearly that:
a) I wasn't calling him a racist
b) I never said he had NO talent (just that his crappy work didn't involve using talent)" - Shey
"I don't buy that. I know a lot of people who are gut-wrenchingly funny and not the least bit offensive or racist.
I'd think it would be respectable to aspire to make a career out of something positive." - Shey
"If I HAD to choose, GR sharing is way better. The pros far outweigh the cons for me. Especially the point you make about the conversations (especially the intimate ones) developing -- that's more important to me than the potential for a lot of pageviews." - Shey
Nice piece. Saying links are unimportant is the weirdest thing I've heard in a while. And thanks for including the links to their bizarre world reasoning or I never would have read them. - chartreuse
Agree with you here. I think Louis looked at it only from a traffic view point, but links are a discovery tool as well. Just because one link doesn't deliver a ton of traffic doesn't mean that it won't help your traffic in the longer term via new subscribers + regular readers...it's just harder to directly measure - Duncan Riley
Links are the veins of the Internet. Blood (read: content) is nothing without veins. ;-) - AJ Batac
links are a discovery tool, period. the moment you start likning for traffic is the moment your site/blog/feed/tweet ceases to matter. - Jim Jannotti via feedalizr
Links are a meaaure of respect. 9 time out of 10 I link to something because I respect what the author wrote. Why shouldn't I encourage other people to read it? (The other 1 in 10 is when I'm mocking some fool. But they deserve to be read so that others can mock them too, - Ed Bott
What you'll find is that Steven and I agree on this 95% of the way. The headline of what I said did not say they were unimportant. I said it "seems" they are getting "less important". I believe in linking and do it aggressively. What I was referring to mostly, as Duncan mentions, was traffic expectations. It was not looking at search, but it was looking at the rising importance of aggregation and social media tools, when compared to blog links. - Louis Gray
Cont: I don't declare things "dead" or say one thing will "kill" another, as that's superlative. I also included quite a bit of data and transparency to say how I came to my conclusions. But over time, as I watch this closely, there is a shift, and I wanted to highlight it. - Louis Gray
I don't think Louis was suggesting links weren't important overall, just that their influence on traffic is declining. Yup, I see it Duncan's way. Links are also important to SEO as well and we shouldn't underestimate the increasing role of Google Juice. - Shey
Maybe I missed it, but I thought Louis's post was really about the declining "importance" of *blogs* as drivers of conversation in the infosphere -- links are still the medium of relaying information, but the linking is migrating to the social net sites. - Sprague D
Seems everyone is getting pretty bent up about that post Louis did. To quote the comment Louis just left, which sums up the general idea of the post very well I think; the post was about 'looking at the rising importance of aggregation and social media tools'. Now as any blogger who wants to generate traffic does Louis took this to a little bit of an extreme causing a lot of talk around the subject which is great. - John
Cont: The thing is you need links to generate traffic to your blog, these links are coming from social media more and more rather than from bloggers linking to one another is all. - John
"Mark, see that's the problem with stereotypes. Lots of people don't see the problem and so they think it's ok but it's not. Did he say, "What if 50 Cent was a Tech Blogger"? No. He slapped that stereotype on all of us.
I'm currently writing my own rant on this as I want to make myself clear and use all the words I want to, on my own blog :)" - Shey
lol. husband Just came in, grabbed a flashlight and headed into the backyard. I'm married to the crazy neighbor! Shhhhhh. There's a raccoon out there! - Shellee
"I think you're right. Sounds like most people are ok just bouncing from web app to web app just to say they were one of the first there with no real interest in being social. I don't know any other way to explain it. Maybe there's something I'm missing.
If that is the case, then social media is in a sad sad state. Personally, I'm looking forward to being able to have a portable identity; this is a HUGE development for web 2.0 and I'm looking forward to their updates.
Thanks for the post." - Shey
have been thinking of trying this out, but the only in-browser bookmarks i use are twitter-related, dev-related, or bookmarklets. everything else is at ma.gnolia. - Hillary Hartley
I moved from del.icio.us and the FF plugin to Foxmarks a few weeks ago and haven't missed it. I've never taken advantage of the social features of delicious, and Foxmark makes it easier to use bookmarklets than the delicious plugin did. - Ken Sheppardson
I'm a long time Foxmarks fan. So much of my productivity is in my browser, and having a synced set of bookmarks, no matter what machine I'm on, makes it that much easier to get up and running with the tools I need and am familiar with. - Josh Bancroft
I may need to try this while Weave from Mozilla is still a prototype. - Kevin C. Tofel
Del.icio.us and Foxmarks are both handy since you can access your bookmarks from a machine that's not yours. Will Weave allow that? - Ken Sheppardson
have been using the GMarks plugin to sync multiple Firefox machines with my Google Bookmarks, but the updated FoxMarks does look pretty cool... i need to investigate the major differences... - Anthony Citrano
After working for Dell for many years, I can only agree with this article. - J. Phil via Bookmarklet
From the article: "The reality is that there was no correlation between outsourcing and perceived value; the authors suggest the companies are simply using the savings to increase their profits instead. As a result, from the consumer's perspective, outsourcing is a complete negative." - J. Phil
Exactly, J.Phil. I'll use Dell as my case in point. If I were, perhaps, getting exemplary service then I'd not be so upset. The down side is, it's just different people reading the same scripted crap and still unable to provide a real answer on most occasions that I've ever dealt with them. In all but ONE of my calls to Dell's CS while they've been outsourced, I've gotten precisely zero real answers. - Spinn
Spinn, sorry to hear that. I did tech support for 5 years at Dell, if there's any questions left you need answered, just ask me. I'll point you in the right direction. - J. Phil
Also, I haven't been impressed with Dell TS since 2000, it was around that time that I left. - J. Phil
Did you ever have a moment of absolute glee at seeing a company that laid you off (and outsourced your job) lose market share? - Harvey Simmons
Well, this was fairly recent stuff, but I've since turned to Google for the answers...as I should have in the first place. - Spinn
I'm so far out of anyone Top Anything that if I started my own social networking system and told no one about it, I'd still not make the Top 250 on it. - Alexander Williams
Um... I'm sure some Christians read your tweets. I do. :) Besides, having your soul saved is easy. You just go to the meetings, learn the secret handshake... wait, that's something else. - Harvey Simmons
I traded my soul for a sandwich and a piece of pie and a pretty frock. - Kaia
Well I do, and it looks fine from here :) - Barry Wynn
No, @ayse, that's a BAD @ayse!!! That's mah pie! - Kaia
Harvey, I know all Christians aren't conservative, but the ones who have (traditionally) followed me on Twitter have been, which just boggles my mind. - Cecily Walker
Good stereotype Cecily. That's what us Christians do all day, go around trying to save souls. I swear I don't have time for anything else. - Michael Tefft
See, Roney, that's what I'm talking about. I appreciate that you have beliefs, and that's cool. But proselytizing - even in an offhanded, seemingly innocent way like you just did? I don't like it, it isn't welcome, and GET OFF MY LAWN! - Cecily Walker
while I am w/Roney - I am not that friend. As the old folks use to say, "I know a man..." - Ruth Ferguson
It's not up to others to save your soul. It's up to you. You have a little something called free will. :) - Raoul Pop
For the record, Raoul, I'm not worried about my soul. I lead a good life, don't hurt people, treat them well and kindly, and try to live a peaceful life. I don't need to believe in something whose existence I can neither prove nor disprove to ensure that my 'soul' is somehow safe -- especially since I don't believe in an afterlife anyway. - Cecily Walker
So what prompted your tweet? I looked through your Twitter stream but nothing jumped out at me. - Raoul Pop
Someone followed me on Twitter and their stream was filled with bible passages and the like -- pages and pages of the stuff, and this has happened more than once. I look at that kind of stuff as spam, because it's unwelcome and it's underhanded. Just as they have the right to express their beliefs, I have the right to be free from their beliefs. - Cecily Walker
so they were willing to tolerate your heathen ways butthey R unacceptable 2 U? LOL geez & we R always called intolerate of others - Ruth Ferguson
Ruth: when someone sabotages me by following me on Twitter - knowing that people check out Twitter streams in return to judge whether to follow the other person, then HECK YES, they're unacceptable. When people say things like "I know a man" when I have expressly said that this kind of proselytizing behaviour is unwelcome, HECK YES they're unacceptable. All Christians don't do this. My mother doesn't. My brother doesn't. My mother-in-law doesn't. - Cecily Walker
/pulls up a chair and listens intently. - Russellreno
See, that's what I'm talking about. Calling someone you don't know beyond words you've seen on a computer screen a heathen is pure asshattery in my book. - Cecily Walker
Cecily, I am sorry I should not have tried to keep it to 140 characters for twitter purposes - I really was joking and meant no harm. The quote came to my mind and I just threw it out there. Like someone said we have free will and I am not one who believes in trying to browbeat people into heaven. In large measure I was also joking about the unacceptable comment ---- but will admit that as a Christian, I do get tired of being labeled intolerate by people who I am not attempting to label - save or whatever. I enjoy and read your tweets often prior to this convo I would have had no idea of your belief system - maybe that person did not. If they did they might have chosen to not sub to you. Fortunately I have not been sabotaged as you described, despite having nothing religious in my postings. So I guess this points out why we don't discuss religion in public uh? - Ruth Ferguson
I don't believe I called anyone intolerant in this thread. I do believe I said I don't have anything against Christians and don't fault them for their beliefs. So your jumping salty about intolerance was misidrected. I admit, I should've been more specific in my original tweet, but like you said - 140 characters isn't always sufficient. - Cecily Walker
I'm a Christian. The only soul I'm trying to save is the sole coming off my shoe. Ick. - Aaron Brazell
I'm a Christian. I read it. Just because I read it, that means I am trying to save your soul? - Andru Edwards
Cecily, pls. imagine some dancing bananas here in place of my comment. - Ayşe E.
This is going up on my own site..linking to your story and the Congressman's page as well. Did some more digging to find out how these two used Twitter etc. I don't see the issue. - Candace Holly
very interesting. i guess the others don't want their general dirty laundry aired? - Cee Bee
It's up already . I did some basic digging to make sure I wasn't getting too political but, this obviously is something that will effect both parties . The front page post is there. - Candace Holly
Candace, your link to Culberson's website is broke. - Aaron Brazell
@Aaron Just noticed that. Not sure what's up. I'll call Rob since he's the one who actually does all that. I just write it. He'll fix it. Something is weird with the word press plug-in and it's not letting links work correctly. - Candace Holly
usually you're not including http:// in the link :) - Aaron Brazell
The http:// is in there. Trying to grab Rob to fix it. He's the programming whiz. - Candace Holly
strange democrats usually like tech hmm.. they'd never ban youtube though - Cecil Sandus
