"I like Seesmic, and have been following loic and his band for a while, but I also believe in credit where it is due. I think it is kinda lazy of the so-called journos, just throwing link-baits around with no-abandon. If it makes any difference, good job to you Dave. personally, I would like to see an update on the main article (again, I'm completely irrelevant in this case :) ) *Update* just noticed that they have changed the title, a mention of the real "firsts" would be nice"
- Shivanand Velmurugan
"sorry if I am a little pedantic, but Seesmic is not even close to being the first client to support the lists feature. Check out http://talkingpuffin.org/ (support on oct 21st) and dabr (http://thenextweb.com/appetit......), which shows screenshots on Oct 30th. I expect mashable authors to do a google search before they make a claim for something to be the first! Come guys! Oh.. btw, the dabr client which work on both mobile and desktop, is probably the best implementation I've seen as yet, and is super quick"
- Shivanand Velmurugan
"That is true. Most often though. "systems" are adapted and hacked at, than designed anew everytime. In tha past 8 years I've probably had to write 3/4 large network mgmt apps, but almost everyday, I have to fix a bug, or write a module etc. For me, the new products/modules are the cherry, the small victories the icing and the ready is just baking the cake :)"
- Shivanand Velmurugan
No chance for stale content that's for sure!!
- Chris Myles
That should make a dent in the $99 iPhone gps apps :) so long tomtom. I need to put that on sale on craigslist right away!!
- Shivanand Velmurugan
from Alert Thingy
go for it!! Have ya done pro portraits before? Bit nerve wrecking at first but once you get going its a great buzz!! Just kinda new to it all myself, but loving it so far.
- Rasterman74
thanks guys! :-) i'm going to email her back, yes. those girls are awesome and it can be a very good experience. and i look AWESOME in fishnet!
- Mo Tabesh
OK, question, she sent me an email inclusing "These photos would be put on the website, would be featured in programmes of the games we play, and would need to be available for us to use for other promotional things (events, fundraisers, etc)." and "We're very interested in working on something with you, what do you think our next step should be?" ... give me some ideas about the negotiation ... it seems to me they are asking for the copyright, am i correct?
- Mo Tabesh
they are super nice and i like to work with them, do you guys have any advice?
- Mo Tabesh
You can work on an individual licence for each image they want to use from what you've already produced. For future work, you could maybe work out a retainer for x-number of events and shots for y-number of purposes... or a job by job fee, with all images finally taken and selected by mutual consent for release to them... depends on how much of a budget they have really.... or could be payment in kind ;-) gosh i can be such an ass sometimes....
- JediPein
For the individual shots you've done so far you could perhaps do a package deal... say a few hundred bucks... or a few crates of Mooseheads... then the rest give them some options... i think job by job might be better, as it gives them both some flexibility... a retainer might put a lot of pressure on both sides.... them; to give you enough work to justify the retainer... you; to keep...
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- JediPein
they are not interested in my old shots. it's only for the future. so explain it again, in simple english please!
- Mo Tabesh
My attempt at translating JediPein: You can sell them some rights to each shot. Not entirely giving them up, but extending some rights to them for Canadian Beans
- Almond Butterscotch
Congrats and good luck! Hope you do retain enough rights to give a glimpse of ur work ;)
- Shivanand Velmurugan
from Alert Thingy
ya, like what almond said, but here's an expansion of in plainer language: they can either pay you a retainer meaning a lump sum per month say, and they take and do whatever they please with the images you give them, unless you specify don't crop etc.
- JediPein
or, they can get you to go to each 'event' like a portrait shot or group shot or game day, and each 'event' is paid for via it's own little agreement... like a fee for each event...
- JediPein
or, they can just give you loads of Mooseheads and you just shoot when you drink....
- JediPein
Congrats! Do you have the lighting gear, backgrounds etc. to do this Mo? Do you know how to use strobes etc? f-mail me if you need help with the setup you'll need. I do this kinda stuff.
- Lee Shelly
Tony: Facebook is now to the status that you HAVE to be on it. I have no idea how you survived so long already. Even the prison warden is on it and he's a late adopter type.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Thanks! I'm leaning towards signing up.
- Tony C
Hehe. Im not on Facebook. Mainly becuase none of my RL friends are on.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Wow - Tony and Robert are now officially the first people I've met with Twitter accounts that are not on Facebook
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I wouldn't have one either, but the account deletion is so hard and complicated, I removed all my friends and info once in '06 and again in '08, though I didn't get rid of the friends that time.
- Jimminy
Rob: I'm on Facebook and have been since the very beginning. Do I put much effort into it? No. Twitter is FAR superior for what I do.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - why would you not put more effort into Facebook a fan page would be a great way to reach a whole new set of people.
- Rob Cairns
Rob: I will do that. I just find that anyone who is anyone in the tech industry reads Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
But I will put more time into my Facebook Page soon.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - I tend to agree a lot of people are on Twitter in the tench industry no question. It is just hard to sometimes get your point across in 140 characters.
- Rob Cairns
Robert, I don't read Twitter - I do read FriendFeed and Facebook (and hopefully your Twitter comes over here if you want me to see it).
- Jesse Stay
I do check my replies and have searches delivered to me from Twitter though, as I do everywhere on the internet.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: it does so you do read my Twitter. And when lists get here you will switch. I guarantee that.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I already have lists on Facebook. The only advantage Twitter gives me is I can subscribe to an entire list. I'll use lists on SocialToo, for sure - I see the benefit for those that prefer Twitter. I just don't see enough reason for lists to pull me over there though. Maybe I'm wrong though - I just heard some news that will definitely make me think twice (it will be announced next week).
- Jesse Stay
Jesse - Good idea:) It makes life easy does it not.
- Rob Cairns
Jesse: cool. Can you call me? +1-425-205-1921
- Robert Scoble
Jesse why are you thinking twice about Twitter
- Rob Cairns
What control do we have over what we see in the Facebook News Feed and Live Feed? FB changes things faster than I can learn the old system. I saw maybe 20 messages in a row regarding one person's rejection of various events. It would be nice to be able to turn that off.
- SuezanneC Baskerville
Suezanne, use friend lists and filter by friend list
- Jesse Stay
Differences: 1. Facebook is a walled garden, Twitter is mostly public information (so is Friendfeed). 2. Facebook has reciprocal friending, Twitter is non-reciprocal (so is Friendfeed). 3. Facebook allows commenting on updates (so does Friendfeed), Twitter is just tweets.
- Michael Slattery
Now if I (as a regular nobody) want to be heard - other than by someone checking their vanity feed - I have to go to Facebook or Friendfeed. I use Twitter just as a reader - in place of RSS.
- Michael Slattery
Michael, is it really walled if everyone is a member? In that regard, isn't the internet itself a walled garden?
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I've been trying to find a link I saw recently, an article where the featured person explains that Facebook will stay a walled garden because that obliges everyone to come to them. What is walled off is not the members - as you say, everyone will join - but the content.
- Michael Slattery
Jesse Stay, make that 3 people now. I'm on Twitter and FF but not Facebook. Originally it was that I was concerned about privacy. Now it's mostly that I am more interested in learning and tracking information. Since not many people know me IRL, I'm not sure how it would work out with the reciprocal friending so Twitter and FriendFeed seem best for my use. If Robert and you didn't know and have as part of your work knowing so many people more personally, would it still be the same for you?
- metalerik
Meta, not sure I understand your question, but the reason I like Facebook so much is because it allows me to get to know people more personally. There's no better networking than getting to know people in real life, and Facebook encourages that. Yet, at the same time if you want to remain more anonymous you can do that as well.
- Jesse Stay
Thanks Jesse. I'm always interested in learning new tools.
- metalerik
Does anyone here use Facebook in a more anonymous way? I remember after Facebook bought FF, people were talking about how they use FF and Facebook in completely different ways and with an almost entirely separate group of people.
- metalerik
I check both compulsively. Entirely different audience for me. Fb = rl friends. I hardly add anyone that I don't know. Twitter = rest of the world. Sometimes I'm quite annoyed by the noise coz a lot of my friends try lots of apps, and I spent atleast one day a month hiding all that noise :). It matter less on Twitter
- Shivanand Velmurugan
from Alert Thingy
Meta, anyone using a Facebook Fan Page is
- Jesse Stay
More differences: 4. Twitter input is limited to 140 characters, Facebook input can be much more than that (as can Friendfeed input). 5. Twitter is a raw feed of tweets only, Facebook has multiple types of feeds such as updates, links, notes etc. (and Friendfeed is an aggregator of feeds produced elsewhere). 6. Twitter is just now introducing lists, while Facebook has a system of...
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- Michael Slattery
Engaging in community on Flickr is risky. They have shown that they can (and will) nuke entire communities and accounts based on their vague interpretations of their TOS/CG. They call this context which gives them an extremely wide latitude to destroy customer data. Flickr's already destroyed my data both in groups and in my photostream. Rather than risking them nuking my entire...
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- Thomas Hawk
Yeah - I've been following what's going on. It sucks worrying about losing everything. We pour so much of our time and energy into that site that (that we're paying for), that it's terrifying that they could just shut us down without notice. I get that they're a company and have the right to do whatever they want with their service, but man, it'd really hurt to lose my account. I have several photos that I've decided not to post because I was afraid they would provoke a negative response from Flickr.
- Blake Caldwell
Also, about posting here - I've spent a little time on Friendfeed without really figuring out the best way to go about it... This group is great because it's more of a focused area for conversation, not the standard people-following that I've been used to. Very good idea - I'm looking foward to seeing how it progresses.
- Blake Caldwell
Is there a link to Friendfeed's terms? Just wondered, because they are owned by Facebook
- RumNose
Their terms are *far* more accomodating than Flickr's. http://friendfeed.com/about... My favorite term is the one about user responsibility which is pretty much exactly the opposite of Flickr's Community Guidelines.
- Thomas Hawk
2. User Responsibility You are solely responsible for your use of the Site and Services. Because FriendFeed merely serves as a repository of information, user-posted content does not represent the advice, views, opinions or beliefs of FriendFeed, and FriendFeed makes no claim of accuracy of any user-posted material. FriendFeed archives links to third-party websites. The linked websites'...
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- Thomas Hawk
they then give the ignore tool to simply ignore whatever content you don't like -- a *far* more responsible way to handle community content than Flickr's team of censors which can and will nuke you without warning at any moment.
- Thomas Hawk
nice! That's the way the internet used to be, possibly how it is supposed to work. Further, the lack of anonymity also means that people say things that they take responsibility for. I like that!
- Shivanand Velmurugan
It's refreshing for a site to say, hey, it's not our job to constantly scrub your experience and nuke groups. It's nice that FriendFeed takes a more mature attitude towards user content.
- Thomas Hawk
Nope... did your invite come with any other invites? Also, good to see you Mecki. :)
- Stephanie Keating
no, no invites so far. I'm pretty alone there :-(
- meckimac
Wave is up? Let me get my surf board...
- Adam Harrison
i believe wave is not sending out extra invites other than the original anymore :-( i'm still waiting on mine
- bluetick
I think one is on the way. Will give a few out to DMU folk once I get it
- Shivanand Velmurugan
I played with it for a bit but it's not really a group thing. It's more a sort of place for people to collaborate. I'll try to figure it out when I've got more time. It didn't feel intuitive for me at first.
- Thomas Hawk
i don't know how to send an invite out for it. as a new user do I have invites?
- Thomas Hawk
you will only have invites if invited directly by google. invites will be presented to you automatically via a wave. now if you are invited by someone, you will not have any invites to give.
- Carlos Ayala
I don't really understand that wave thing yet, but....
- meckimac
looks like I can invite a few people....I need your gmail mail addresses, though.
- meckimac
can u please send me Google wave invitation...at arvinjones@gmail.com.....i like wave I shall be highly thankful to u
- Arvin jones
Ivan, I just sent you an invitation to your gmail account. It's not really an invitation, though, more a nomination... well, that's what Google says.
- meckimac
Meckimac please send me invitation at arvinjones@gmail.com
- Arvin jones
Roland and I were waving earlier. It has promise. I think we don't have a lot of the features quite yet, but I think we should send Google feedback... they can fix any bugs, make it better, release it to the masses...
- Stephanie Keating
Any invites left? I would greatly appreciate one ^_^ theabyss@gmail.com
- Noah Patterson
If/when wave starts giving invites to new users again, I'll let you guys know. :)
- Stephanie Keating
I tried it. It's not really community as much as it is collaboration best I can tell. I haven't been back since.
- Thomas Hawk
I tried wave as well. It'll be more interesting when Google opens it up to the public, so I can communicate with more people, and when they enable plugins. Right now it looks like just another version of email.
- Ivan Makarov
if anyone has extra invites troydxn@gmail.com , thanks
- bluetick
i'd love one too. ryan [dot] dearth [at] gmail [dot] com
- Ryan Dearth
Kill this group. "More Mo"??? No thanks.I'm sticking with Shims DMU. Been fun guy's and gals but I have no desire to be here at FF acting scared of Heather. I'll stick to the group that is run by Shims and Lee and say what I please. This shit feels like you are hiding in an attic here. And stuck in an attic with Mo is not where I want to be. Later
Send me the info if you can and I would love to come hang with you guy's.
- Manny Flores
Crap, I've committed to going to see Rent on Friday. The wife loves that damn musical.
- Shims
Manny i did not start that group, TH did, and those lines are not mine. if we move there, my only job will be cleaning up the pool and removing blocks.
- Mo Tabesh
Rent!!! I'd take a kick to the nut's before being dragged to that! You are a good man Eric. Mo, I don't care. It's all blah blah blah to me my friend.
- Manny Flores
So are you going to come out Friday night Manny?
- Thomas Hawk
TH do you want me to step down? or are you still OK with this?
- Mo Tabesh
Yes TH I want to show up. Depends on weather. Where are you meeting up? And Mo don't trip. Stay put .
- Manny Flores
Manny: I don't know you, and I have not been here very long, but I must say... I got wrinkled on my first day in the group by Mo, and I thought he was a self-important prick (along with a few others). But since this group has moved to a new level in the last 24 hours, I have seen Mo act as an Admin should - for the greater good. I have found a new respect. You can disagree with him, but I'd be shut into an attic with him any day (as long as we had cameras with us). I'm sticking around FWIW.
- Steve Dorsey
What's happening Friday, and is it open?
- Steve Dorsey
TH, do you want me to step down from the new group admin?
- Mo Tabesh
Steve it's definitely open. See the link posted earlier in the thread. We're doing a photowalk on Friday in downtown Palo Alto. All are welcome.
- Thomas Hawk
Mo, whatever you'd like to do is totally up to you. My opinion shouldn't matter. Personally I'm not interested in investing time in a community that can just be nuked again. Until someone can answer the question for me "What is to prevent Flickr from nuking our community again?" I'm just not interested in investing time there. Furthermore I personally believe that we shouldn't reward flickr with our community if this is the disrespect that they show it. Why give them that?
- Thomas Hawk
It is and it isn't Jakes. Try it for a while. You get used to it quickly. It only feels difficult because it's new. Actually there is a very large (non-dmu) community on FriendFeed that interact very much like we did in DMU here every single day. It's very doable. And perhaps in the future we'll look at something else that is hosted on our own servers entirely. I'm open to a lot of things. I'm simply not open to Flickr when no assurances can be made that the group will not be nuked again.
- Thomas Hawk
nothing is going to stop them TH, thats because they don't claim to be an uncensored forum, they have TOS and you cross there line they gonna bomb you thats the way it is (edit for shit grammer, sorry)
- vic nic
TH, i will stay in the group, i was referring to complanits, such as NF's about me. i don't want to repel your new members.
- Mo Tabesh
Nah, Mo, don't worry about that. Exactly Vic and if the entire group can be held responsible and nuked without warning over the single act of an individual member, I personally do not want to put my time and energy into building an archive and a community there. All of the threads that we lost were too significant to me personally. Mo's music thread. The gif thread. All of those gone. No thanks. I'll put my energy here where it is valued and respected by the owners of the site not abused.
- Thomas Hawk
TH- how late do you think this photo walk will go? I'm heading to Sacramento tonight and might have some time to drive down that way? I don't get in until after 8pm, and I know it's an hour or two drive, so I probably won't make it, but I'm wondering about my options.
- Ryan Dearth
Good question Ryan. I suspect we'll shoot for at least a couple of hours, then at some point maybe grab something to drink and hang out for another hour or two, maybe shoot a bit more? People will probably come and go as they want. I figure though that either shooting or having a few beers will probably go to around 11pm or so if I had to guess.
- Thomas Hawk
good to know- I'll try to make it if I can. Any way to figure out where you guys are if I show up late?
- Ryan Dearth
Anybody that wants to catch up with us can give me a call: 510-757-9692
- Jeremy Brooks
awesome, thanks JB- I'll definitely try to make it
- Ryan Dearth
@TH what about having a tool that will backup flickr conversations in a group? mebbe mirror it on another site. two sync between flickr and a self-hosted site?
- Shivanand Velmurugan
@Mo the first few interactions .. I got pissed off (but was entirely my limited view of the group), but since then have always looked forward to your deletes :) keep at it dude!
- Shivanand Velmurugan
There is a certain elegance to the Louvre. I don't know if I want to catch a waft of overcooked burger patties and melted grease walking though centuries of human history. (although a french Mac-do is waaay better than the crap that they sell in North America)
- Shivanand Velmurugan
"wow! That was an awesome bait-tweet. I really thought someone hacked your account! I hadn't visited your site, in a while (caught wit work and some other stuff that I'm trying to get out), but this got my eyes again. Still waiting anxiously on that pre-ordered book of yours."
- Shivanand Velmurugan
to many people are two worried about such things. Life is 2 short too argue too and fro. Let's all take to seconds two step back and hope that we to, are invited 2 the party at the end of time.
- Morgan Haley
I just know I'm going to have to hide this thread to save my eyeballs...
- i80and