Simon May › Likes

I think it's on the houseofrepresentitives.com right now!! - Simon May

Maybe you should repost this on 4chan. It might actually happen, then. - Kevykev

Amen to Aaron. - Krishnan Subramanian

Andru: I totally disagree. Unfettered capitalism brings us huge swings up and down. Really nasty for all people concerned. I think you really need to spend some time with someone who lived through the depression. - Robert Scoble

Andru: Partially agree, there should be no limits on what you can earn, but there should be limits on what you can loose, otherwise, well you just take everyone with you. - Simon May

I agree with Robert. Unregulated capitalism will eventually keep many risk-takers out of the market because of volatility and lack of clarity. Risk-takers are what grow new markets and grow the economy. - Ryan

Actually having an organization like the Federal Reserve that can inflate and deflate the currency on a whim causes booms and busts. - Gregor Morrill

I don't think it was people who lived through the Depression that made these stupid bets. I'll take living through huge swings over being made to pay for other's mistakes. - Eric Lewis

by the way, TAX is there to regulate the successful - Simon May

There's nothing wrong with working hard and being smart to earn lots of money. I may be wrong but from what I know, every over the top situation (meltdown) that has occurred is related to people trying to make a buck without really trying or by being duplicitous. Regulation is needed to prevent "phantom money", "pyramid schemes", and outright fraud. - David Muir

@Robert - I have spent time with people who lived through the depression. I am willing to tighten my bootstraps and change my lifestyle totally if I have to. I don't want the government to jump in and save me. That isn't what they are there for. I don't like them taking control of things because it is convenient, and just feels like it flies in the face of freedom. I don't like it. - Andru Edwards

@ Andru: lack of transparency in products like Credit Default Swaps and collateralized debt obligations is what started this mess. Regulation would have brought that needed clarity. New financial products will emerge in the future and we will need regulators to correctly identify their risks so we can prevent this mess from happening again. - JP Adams

Oh certainly, I am all for regulation here, I agree with that JP. - Andru Edwards

What is frustrating about the whole current mess is that Enron and other corporate malfeasance resulted in Sarbanes-Oxley legislation. That was legislation that didn't do a thing to prevent this situation because they were unrelated. I wish there could be one law: "Always be truthful and don't screw around with other people's money." - David Muir

Oh, so you like SOME government messing in the markets. Got it. :-) - Robert Scoble

Gregor, the boom/bust cycle was deeper and more frequent before the Federal Reserve even existed. - Steve Lowe

I like the government regulating things, but I don't like it bailing out and owning these financial institutions. And hey, you say I might lose my house if this bailout doesn't happen? If I couldn't afford my mortgage 6 months ago, no one would have bailed me out then, right?? I'm a citizen, and the gov wouldn't have helped me. But if I was a big financial business, they would? - Andru Edwards

Andru: I don't care about your house or mine. I assume I'll lose mine (it's already underwater and if I'm laid off I won't be able to afford to keep it). But our credit markets are close to a meltdown. That'll lead to widespread layoffs. If we can head those off now, shouldn't we? (We'll pay their unemployment checks, anyway, so in the end we'll bail out and bail out and bail out). I'd rather put a little gas into the system and see if we can avoid an economic meltdown. - Robert Scoble

Disagree. This assumes that full information is available on all choices, which it isn't and isn't to everyone (and the cause why multi-class society exists). - Vincent van Wylick

Andru, check out my blog post on this very subject (http://tinyurl.com/3l9y43). I think it echoes what you are trying to say. I feel the same way you do, but now is no time to cut our noses off to spite our faces. - Aaron Krug

@Andru - You are correct that most of the bailout package will first assist large financial corporations. However there is a link between the credit available at the top of the house (big banks) and on main street. If the top falls over the average American will find it significantly more challenging to get a loan for a car, home, send their kids to college... The same difficulty in borrowing money will impact small businesses. I guess what I'm saying is that these different levels are strongly connected - JP Adams

While freedom ought to be maximized, true justice means that your actions shouldn't infringe on other people's liberty. When your billion dollar profit comes at the expense of other people's ability to shelter, clothe, or feed themselves, that, too, is a form of tyranny and oppression. - Victor Ganata

@Victor yes, if someone makes a billion dollars by fraud or theft of others - well, that's infringing on their liberty. If you're referring to some people making large profits while others are in hard times, that is not infringing on anyone's liberty. Wealth (which is not "money") is not finite. It's not a zero sum game. Those are common misconceptions. - Gregor Morrill

+1 @Gregor - Craig Eddy

@Gregor if you do it by refusing to increase your worker's wages to just keep up with the cost of living, if you do it by laying off thousands of workers while you give yourself an extravagant golden parachute, if you do it by cutting corners in areas that the government isn't watching over, that's not necessarily fraud or theft. You may not be breaking the law, but I would argue it's still tyrannical and oppressive. - Victor Ganata

@Victor: in free markets, workers have the right and duty to "vote with their feet" and find a better opportunity. If you worked for a company that pressed LPs when CDs came along, and you didn't find a better opportunity, who's fault is it when your job went away? - Craig Eddy

@aaron - "I feel the same way you do, but now is no time to cut our noses off to spite our faces." - you know, that does make sense. I dunno, i just reallllly feel like this is being forced upon us, changing our government structure, and hasn't even been fully explained to the American people. - Andru Edwards

You assume Craig that workers actually have that choice. Don't make that assumption as it's a false one. - Alex Scoble

We've never had true laissez faire capitalism in this country, anyway. Even at our most unregulated, during the last Gilded Age, we at least still had protectionist tariffs. While this bailout definitely chafes, I do believe it is within the government's bailiwick to protect us from extreme market forces. Since we *do* live in a form of democracy, and not a fascist state (yet), I think it's right that the economy should be constrained/manipulated to serve the people, and not the other way around. - Victor Ganata

Victor, it's *because* of the market being constrained and manipulated - by the government you're looking to "save us" - that we're in this current situation. - Gregor Morrill

@Alex - unless the employers are pointing a gun at their head and forcing them to work - yes, they have a choice. Consumers have a choice, too, whether to support businesses who they deem to be oppressive. - Gregor Morrill

The reality is that our economy can't exist without governmental restraints. There has been no time in American history where there wasn't something artificial holding back market forces. What we have here is an example of *greed* that was allowed to run rampant, without governmental regulation whatsoever. This *is* the end-result of laissez faire capitalism: concentration of wealth among a small percentage of the people, and very few opportunities for the people at the bottom to rise up. - Victor Ganata

Never could take power naps. Or really nap at all. I envy those that can. - Jen (SquirrelGirl)

I always find myself feeling drowsy after naps, even if stick to every guideline I've come across - less than 25m etc. Shame because the research on them is very positive. - Alexander Carlill

yes - jeneane sessum

If so it will be the first decision in 8 years I actually agree with GW on - Aaron Krug

That would probably be a good plan right now...but it shouldn't come to that - Simon May

What next? Watch. If you don't know how to play the game, sit on the sidelines (and honestly, I don't think anyone knows how to 'play' this right now. As for buying survivalist goods, I think you can hold off on that for awhile. - Andrew Leyden

Andrew: I know how to play the game. I paid for my college education by playing the game. This is a different matter, this is about economic foundations, not markets. - Ben Parr

I agree with Aviv. No choice. - Roberto Bonini

By no means am I saying an Executive Order should take place.. but that is the only option left if Bush wants to give the bailout plan a try. - Aviv

Ben: I agree this is a fundamental shift. I thought you were talking about what stocks to buy now or something. As for that, no idea. This is going to be a wild time. - Andrew Leyden

Every path is dangerous - Ben Parr

If Aviv won't say it I will. We need an Executive Order. This plan was a decent compromise for all parties involved and the only reason it got voted down was because its an election year and no one in politics cares about the country more than they care about their jobs. This is a bad situation, and its only going to get worse if we don't get to fixing it soon. - Aaron Krug

Ben: Yup. It seems so hard to 'hedge' on this with Asian stocks or T-bills or whatever. I'm a bit frustrated as there seems to be so many 'unknowns' out there. - Andrew Leyden

Aaron - the problem now is that the only reason to pass the bailout plan as-is is to calm the markets. This is a very bad reason. - Aviv

For what better reason would you do it? - Aaron Krug

Last thing we need or want is a panic of any kind. Despite the fact that it feels like a very bad movie right now. - Charlie Anzman

Something will get passed. Its just a matter of if it will be before our economy fails. - Mathew™ one of a kind