Black rose & a radio fire,
it's so contagious,
such something changing my mind
I'm gonna take what's evil, and give you a genius playlist (what a deal!) seeded with Shiny Toy Guns' You Are the One
Somehow, I don't think that's the right kind of birther: What is a birth doula? A birth doula is a person trained and experienced in childbirth who provides continuous physical, emotional and informational support to the mother before, during and just after childbirth. (yeah, I looked it up)
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
The morons that think Obama wasn't born here and/or is not an American citizen.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
You know my theory Rahsheen. And I'm still convinced it's correct. Just plain simple barely disguised racism.
- Internet's Tad
Rah, yes. :) The use of birther (as related to Obama) has been an issue with doula/midwives/etc. (the REAL birthers) recently. It's causing a lot of confusion, so I just had to comment about it.
- Rochelle
And since he is not a citizen we don't have to do anything he says. I'm not sure what their goal is though - they don't want Biden, that's for sure, I think maybe they want us to default back to Bush for awhile.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
I'm glad I asked cause I was about to say that I was a birther.
- Shevonne
Actually glad you brought that up, Rochelle. I don't know who originated this use of the term, but it's almost as retarded as the actual issue it refers to.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
the zsa zsa gabor lady that's running the show is a nut job
- Pete Delucchi
I don't understand how Americans in support of such a fringe movement are following a Soviet Spy-sounding chick. (I know, that was wrong...so sue me)
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
I only seem to use it when twitter is down. A better iPhone app might bring me around more often more "reader" like features (ie, let me add feeds and info that only I see like my google reader subscriptions and all of the tweets from my account on twitter)
- Scott Watermasysk
If it's not on friendfeed, I'm not interested, Thomas. :)
- Alex Scoble
Best ignore those that think they know what is going on and preach about it.
- CW™
Uhh oh, don't I act like that sometimes, CW? *goes and cries in a corner*
- Alex Scoble
Your a scoble.. I don't think you can help it. ;) But you back up your statements, allow others the chance to change your mind and not go off to a Ashram and sulk when people complain about you. ;)
- CW™
People are complaining about me? *goes and cries in a corner*
- Alex Scoble
You mean yesterday's news Arrington ??? Or today's embargo Arrington?
- David HC Soul
I just read Arrington's post and commented via FriendFeed (not to make any philosophical point, but because I'm on an older mobile phone right now using fftogo). While I had some quibbles, the fact remains that there are far fewer FriendFeed users than there are Facebook users. Then again, there are far fewer Twitter users than Facebook users, so simplicity isn't everything...
- John E. Bredehoft
from fftogo
The word I heard him use was "nobody", not "fewer", "nobody"...Perhaps I'm wrong though...either way, I don't care. I find friendfeed to be eminently more entertaining and useful than Twitter or Facebook.
- Alex Scoble
I'm going with Scoble, and betting on this horse. This new UI is just a thing of beauty. This is how it should be. They're the ones who've found the Grail Castle. This is it right here. I'm just loving it.
- Web Nex
Here. But off to bed soon. Back later. G'nite, FF.
- Lisa L. Seifert
Love the new beta. Really nice job to Team FF!
- Marc Chung
Wow, a whole ~120 people ... over 5 hours. I used to play on MUDs 10+ years ago with more simultaneous users. FF is 98% Scoble-hype noise, 2% RSS crawling.
- Dossy Shiobara
@bec rowe - fine, I'll be generous, suppose there's a whole ORDER OF MAGNITUDE more users, 10x or 1,200 ... this is a big deal? Most major IRC networks each have 60k+ concurrent users and that's tech that's 15+ years old now.
- Dossy Shiobara
for such a "new and improved" UI, why do I have to scroll ALL the way back up to click the "comment" link? what, did none of the UX people think "gee, putting it at the bottom of the list of comments would be a good idea"?
- Dossy Shiobara
seriously, people, stop being sheep. FF is cute but it's a pet rock.
- Dossy Shiobara
Exactly -- I come here to escape from Facebook and when I want more conversation than Twitter :) Sheep we are not. ;)
- Mona Nomura
I have 3 tabs locked into the first three positions of my always-open Firefox window: Google Reader, Gmail and you guessed it... FriendFeed.
- Brooks Bishop
Absolutley! Great aggregator, but have to use Twirl or other app at work
- Jonathan Decker
from twhirl
Who the hell is Michael Arrington, and why should I give two tugs of a dead dog's cock what he thinks?
- Steven Perez
damn you steven perez... speak ya mind for a change!!! ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Perez: Some meatbag with an overblown sense of self importance
- Mo Kargas
Arrington is a Web 1.0 dinosaur trying to make himself relevant still by being Jerry Springer without the entertainment value.
- Bob M. Montgomery
from twhirl
Just to note: I know damn well who Arrington is. He's that meatsack whose website couldn't hold its load for a few hours. But I'm serious about not caring what he thinks.
- Steven Perez
that's r scoble too mo... ooops I'll get bashed! :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
something tells me THIS proves how little he uses this place ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
That's OK, I get the sense that most people here couldn't care less. :) We use friendfeed because we like it, not because some A-Lister that doesn't even participate here thinks we should or shouldn't.
- Alex Scoble
Shouldn't this be on a TC post since all those comments will be sucked into the blog itself?
- coldbrew
agreed alex, if you watch your brother's video of the pre-beta walk through from last weekend, mike was there, engaged and asked good questions of bret and paul, but then he goes off and belittles ff & those using it - immature or trollish not sure which it is...
- mike "glemak" dunn
But Alex.. your bro is a supposed A-lister...
- Rob Sellen :o)
dunn: Arrington is providing feedback. I'm sure team-FF can handle it.
- coldbrew
yeah the feedback he provides is..."the worse way to use friendfeed" :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
My brother also participates here a lot, so when he says something is great or sucks here he has some authority...certainly a lot more authority on the subject than you know who.
- Alex Scoble
i am and its soo much better. Tell mike the tech rumors are better here, too.
- Roberto Bonini
my head hurts. || button is my friend
- Todd Randolph
Right on Alex! To enhance what I said yesterday, FriendFeed is the "coolest app" to consume information on the Internet and interact with smart people.
- Eric Berlin
Nah, I never use FriendFeed. FriendFeed uses me! Don't ask.
- Brad Butner
from twhirl
*rolls eyes* Outlandish statements are how Arrington moves the space. It doesn't matter how the space moves, as long as it moves, then Arrington can remora off it. He doesn't care who wins or how his little bombs affect anyone, just as long as it moves somewhere. He's like a weapons dealer who foments the extension of wars so he can sell the weapons to both sides.
- Matthew DeVries
It's Michael Arrington. His ego is the size of the Sun and is infinitely expanding like the universe. All I hear is "blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."
- Zach Flauaus
My thread was first and my brother was just being a copycat. First!
- Alex Scoble
Put both threads in a room, and similpost in both. The power of the exponent!
- Matthew DeVries
yep, that Scoble is a copycat !! :)-
- Peter Dawson
I think the only way to settle this is with a good old fashioned slap fight. Or a drinking contest... Either way we need video of it.
- Joe Pierce
But I said "First!" That's the internet beat down right there.
- Alex Scoble
more comments than likes? how can that be... you commenter's who have yet to like...like.. and those who have yet comment...comment..and like ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
I'm down with FreindFeed. My usage has skyrocketed since the beta launch.
- Tim
Claudio, don't you remember Star Trek V when Uhura was dancing nude behind some huge palm leaves? Sex scenes in my Trek? It's more likely than you think.
- Mike Nayyar
Holy Moly. That looks way more frenetic and awesome than any Star Trek has the right to be. Can't wait to watch it! 8^D
- Chieze Okoye
hopeful but concerned. the original Star Trek had Kirk barking, "As he passes, I want to cut in warp drive. We'll pivot at warp 2 and bring all tubes to bear. Mr. Chekov, give him a full spread of photon torpedoes." This one seems to have an alien screaming, "FIRE EVERYTHING AND STUFF!!!!! GAHHHHH!!!!"
- Karim
And the Cubs winning the world series!
- Alex Scoble
I was pretty disappointed that when we hit 2001, we didn't have commuter shuttles to the moon, but practically speaking, I guess I'd rather have ubiquitous wifi and tablets than flying cars and hoverboards, so it evens out.
- Victor Ganata
I've always dreamt of those hoverboards!
- directeur
didn't you watch the documentary that came with the dvd?? the hoverboards are real, just too dangerous, they won't release them! ;)
- Terry O'Fee
hmmm, after seeing the first one the other night with my girlfriend, I was thinking the same thing about the flying cars...
- Harold
Yep. When we watched it a few months ago, I got all pissed over what we don't have now.
- Admiral Anika
Then again - We've seen Dick Tracy (with cellphones) ... plus a little. Now if we could fly around like the Jetsons! ....
- Charlie Anzman
The liability issues would be huge. I have a feeling that pediatric emergency room visits for head trauma would sharply spike.
- Victor Ganata
Half the humor of the internet is the humor of missed humor.
- Paul Buchheit
I wonder what the premiums of an insurance policy on a flying car would be?
- Victor Ganata
I'm sad to say I actually fell off the Segway (and yes, I watched the whole safety video before they'd give me a key). It was the stupid turn-handle. I needed to avoid an obstacle so I leaned and turned the handle, but turned it the wrong way which, along with my leaning, jettisoned me off the side. The rest of the Segway was so instinctual. They should've done a better job with the turning UI.
- Kevin Fox
I loved that movie!!!!! I want all that technology.
- Tamar Weinberg
@Chris White Remember it was the late '80s. Goofy looking was in style.
- Jesse Hattabaugh
I *just* watched this trilogy for the first time ever. Heck no, no flying cars. We should probably never have those (unless they steer themselves). II did get it right about flat screen tvs, though.
- Kamilah Gill
what about the cuisinart fusion machine? that's what we really need!!!
- don loeb
Seriously, screw the flying car. I want my Mr. Fusion Home Energy Reactor.
- Victor Ganata
i would destroy every single flying car UNLESS they made a delorean version.
- Terry O'Fee
Victor. A couple companies are working on small nuclear reactors which would power neighborhoods of up to 20,000 homes. I think they are buried, and have a lifespan of about 30 years. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environ...
- Robert Felty
brilliant, though, especially the first one. +1 zemeckis
- Anthony Citrano
hahah come on, the delorean needs to come back into fashion. we all know it :P
- Terry O'Fee
not in australia :P i know matthew reily (famous author) has one, but he has a fully scaled model of han in carbonite. a geek with money :P
- Terry O'Fee
wasnt he also involved with the mob or something? wasnt it that that got him into trouble??
- Terry O'Fee
Delorean's money shortfall was well-known, so the FBI (having their own shorfall of suspects, apparently) approached him undercover with a scheme to smuggle cocaine into the US by hiding it in the cars manufactured in Ireland. He needed the money and they threatened him and his family if he refused, so he went along with it. He beat the obvious entrapment charge, but I think they eventually got him for some unrelated fraud.
- Gabe
i remember seeing he finally got on his feet financially a few years back, promised more deloreans, and then died of a heart attack, poor bugger.
- Terry O'Fee
I love the first comment from Charlie :)
- Joe Dawson
You guys should check out paleofuture.com
- Rubin Sfadj
Screw the hoverboard. I want my, steam powered, hover converted, time traveling, train to the stars!
- Joe Pierce
First question, why MySQL instead of a straight key/value/attribute store, like a bdb? (Amazon's SimpleDB works along similar principles, btw.)
- DeWitt Clinton
Cool stuff Bret. Love to see this kind of stuff. Would love that chat about the Ajax side of things ;)
- Dion Almaer
DeWitt: Historical reasons; we have some operational experience maintaining MySQL servers, and MySQL is very popular so there's a lot of support available.
- Tudor Bosman
Oh right, none of you are ex-Amazon. (Any Amazonian reading this will understand...)
- DeWitt Clinton
How small do you keep the shards? Can you keep the entire index tables in RAM? Are you backed with SSD?
- DeWitt Clinton
Not all of it is RAM. We use normal hard drives for this system, and we have enough RAM such that the working set fits in memory. Most of the oldest stuff on FriendFeed is not accessed frequently, and that data is not typically resident in memory.
- Bret Taylor
So for something like 'user_id_index.get_all' you'd trust that InnoDB has that user in RAM, and that you have only a small set of active users at any given time (for web requests). Same for the relevant entities you'd "join" against. Makes sense. (Sorry, having a hard time typing coherently tonight.)
- DeWitt Clinton
Yah, those indexes are typically in RAM. Our indexes contain a timestamp as well (since they are ordered reverse chronologically), so the oldest entries referenced by that index would likely not be in RAM depending on how many pages back they are on most feeds.
- Bret Taylor
BTW, did you guys look at any other serialization mechanism other than pickle? Any pros/cons for cpickle?
- Arvind Sundararajan
cPickle is the same format as pickle, just implemented in C instead of Python. We use cPickle. marshal is faster, but according to docs may change from version to version of Python, so we didn't want to use it in our DB.
- Bret Taylor
@Bret "250 million entries", is it possible to give the size of the DB? and what is your opinion about when will you need to change this system again or is it strong enough for years Meybe you will only need hardware instead of structure changes?
- Ömer Faruk Kurt
Ömer: I don't have an exact number off the top of my head, but a lot of data is the indexes themselves, so adding indexes is almost as significant as adding entries.
- Bret Taylor
This sounds exceptionally similar to how the AppEngine datastore does things, except that it's MySQL and not BigTable.
- Alex Power
Aren't commercial RDBMSes (like Oracle, MSSQL) designed to support the sorts of things you're looking for, like online reindexing and joining across shards? Why not use them? Lack of experience? NIH? Too expensive?
- Gabe
"We like MySQL for storage, just not RDBMS usage patterns" Excellent post Bret, thanks for sharing!
- Mahesh CR
Gabe: "designed to support" and actually working are two different things. I think that is why companies like ours generally don't use commercial software and choose to use open source software. If it doesn't work, we can fix it. In my experience, most of those features don't work at the scale consumer web sites need, and it certainly wasn't worth the cost and time to find out from our perspective.
- Bret Taylor
Bret: That should be the new slogan for FLOSS. "If it doesn't work, we can fix it."
- KyleHase
from twhirl
Non-RDBMS-patterns may work when there is no great needs for processing the actual data (like reports etc). In LOB-apps this would be a big no-no, but in large-scale services like FF alternative methods are almost necessary...
- Jemm
Thanks for the writeup! Is there a reason you don't declare the added_id as an UNSIGNED INT?
- Roger
@Bret, this is a pretty cool write u!. Might I suggest as a subject for future write ups, how the realtime update system works (e.g. how it knows what updates it needs to push), and perhaps how the feed fetching system works and how these might inter-relate?
- Ray Cromwell
Ray: good ideas. We will do more of these. We want to in theory - they just take a bit of time to write up, and we like writing code more than blog posts :)
- Bret Taylor
Bret, do you really think that guys like Oracle and MS create features for enterprise-level databases that don't work or scale to meet the needs of those who buy them? Of course you may be right, but the TPC tests generally get results in the hundreds and thousands of transactions per second. In reality, though, what can you really fix if something doesn't work? Are you going to debug MySQL if it starts corrupting data or optimize it if it's too slow?
- Gabe
Gabe: yes, we have already debugged MySQL when it has crashed. It would have been impossible without the debug symbols and source code.
- Bret Taylor
Gabe: I've been doing a fair amount of tracing through MySQL core dumps over the past week, and just having the ability to look at the code, plus the size of the community working with the same code base and debugging problems, seems to make it worth the cost at this point. We haven't changed any of the MySQL code yet, but Google and others certainly have.
- Jim Norris
I'm skeptical of Oracle and other commercial pre-packaged systems because the companies are focused on extracting revenue via software sales and their products are highly optimized for a certain problem domain that doesn't really fit our experience very well.
- Jim Norris
So I guess the downside is that if you change your indexes you need to change the code, too. How do you manage the table creation, code migration and data sharding all at once?
- Nick Lothian
Nick: It is actually not bad: make the tables, update the code, start writing to the indexes for new entities, then run the "Cleaner" to fill in the indexes for the older entities. When the cleaner is done, you can start using the indexes for features.
- Bret Taylor
The most important decision about your design- and why not going with databases RDBMS etc. to manage the indices - is that your users don't really look up the old stuff, so keeping the old entries in RAM/live indices isn't worth the time hit it would take to do huge indexes on long tables. This seems like a "running index"- that is, it's populated by the application in many places at one time, instead of in one place, that the DB then optimizes over the entire history.
- anna sauce
Reminds me of some multi-user java apps back 10 years or so ago that had to manage simultaneous users on live systems. great post, Bret, and fun to see what's working behind the scenes.
- anna sauce
"if you change your indexes you need to change the code" is not a problem unique to this system. You always have to update your code along with your schema. You have to write code to read from the tables even if you use a typical RDBMS, and you can't do that without an index, so this staged process exists in some form no matter what your storage scheme looks like.
- Bret Taylor
Bret, it sounds like MySQL crashes a lot. Are you assuming that commercial products will crash just as often and the vendors won't debug it?
- Gabe
Gabe: Every piece of software crashes, whether it is written by Oracle or by open source developers. The difference with open source is that we are not dependent on someone else to diagnose and fix the problems. This is not a unique sentiment. Google, Yahoo, Facebook, FriendFeed, Twitter, et al, have all chosen open source infrastructure for this and a variety of other compelling reasons we have already discussed.
- Bret Taylor
Brett, I agree that not being dependent on somebody else is great. In fact, the product I work on is probably 99% open source or developed in-house. I even replaced a relational DB with a pickled Python object store a year or two ago. However, I'm also not considering writing my own transaction protocol, indexing, and query engine because the open source DB I use doesn't support...
more...
- Gabe
Re: "change your indexes you need to change the code" - yes, conventionally you need to change your code if you change your tables. But you do get some opportunities for runtime optimisations by changing your indexes (although in practice this can have availability costs as you note)
- Nick Lothian
OK I'm going to put this out there: sounds like you're re-inventing the wheel.
- anna sauce
Being able to open something up to understand, diagnose, and fix things yourself is underrated.
- Amit Patel
DeWitt, part of the reason we didn't use a simpler store is that we're using mysql replication. We'd have to replace that too. Probably not hard, but it's working well for us. Also sometimes you do want transactions for performance within a single DB (each xsaction is a single log write, vs multiple little writes).
- Private Sanjeev
re: SSDs and mysql. I can't speak for all SSDs, but the Intel X25-M gets internally fragmented very quickly, reducing write performance by 10-20x. Things that do large sequential writes like bigtable or lucene are a better fit.
- Private Sanjeev
Part of the purpose behind traditional schema driven designs is to 'protect' the data from the programmers and the applications - which is not insane given the level of commitment people have in some kinds of organization. One of the statements that the FF people are making here is that they have trust in themselves and each other and they care about what they are doing.
- Robin Barooah
You guys rock so hard it HURTS! THANK YOU, FRIENDFEED!
- Josh Haley
Just logged in... this sounds really cool.... hmmm :)
- Susan Beebe
great post -- liked the discussion in the comments too! some people thinking relational databases can do everything; other people not understanding rationale behind key/value store; other people mad you've reinvented it using MySQL... :-D favorite comment from guy who is having a heart attack because anyone might think it's a good idea: "it is like using a database to solve the problem...
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- Karim
what is the correct name for this? "schema-less data?" "entity attribute/value (EAV) store?" "key/value store?" personally, i like "property bag" :-D also, have you considered Amazon SimpleDB, or Microsoft SQL Data Services for hosted services, since they are based on similar ideas, just not on MySQL?
- Karim
Sanjeev, I heard rumors about the X25-M performance running down after fragmentation, but last I heard was Intel was unable to replicate & "looking into it." 10-20x should not be hard to spot. :-) Are you in touch with Intel...? Also, have you seen similar problems on SSDs with Samsung controllers? (I went with the Corsair...)
- Karim
Karim, it may not get as bad with other SSDs, but they start off with much higher write latency for small random writes than the X25-M.
- Private Sanjeev
The Samsung, you mean? All I was trying to do was *not* get the JMicron controller and *afford* it :-D
- Karim
but why are the ssIDs varchars, is the question (from @eonarts comment)
- anna sauce
anna: what are ssIDs? If you mean the UUIDs, they are just 16 byte binary strings.
- Bret Taylor
Just look how many comments on this begin with someone's name. "anna:" "Karim," "Sanjeev,". Somehow there needs to be a reply-to-comment mechanism. Fortunately FriendFeed uses json blobs in their database so this won't require a painful schema change ;-)
- Kevin
Bret: you're right, I re-read the post and couldn't find evidence of the Primary Key Erin mentions in her comment, as varchar. Am I missing it?
- anna sauce
schema changes aren't painful, and I have a question for more current DB/programmatic people (than me): why is this called schema-less? There is a schema, it's just that the database application isn't being used to index, Bret's crew are doing it manually. Blobs in columns doesn't mean it's schema-free, that's been going on for 15 years. I think it's just that he's cracking the indexing methodology and offroading. I'd like to hear from some PostGres people on this- Disqus is on PostGres aren't they?
- anna sauce
Anna: that person is talking about the URL index. What we are doing is correct for this application; we want the index to be in that order on disk, not in a different order.
- Bret Taylor
I just remembered that one of my client's DBs is actually Btrieve, which is nothing more than a way of storing binary blobs with certain byte ranges indexed. (They are still using a DOS app from the '80s, with the Btrieve running on a Novell server.) The only real difference is that they have fixed-length keys and records, while the MySQL data is variable-length.
- Gabe
Bret: Thanks a lot for the informative post! Any thoughts on MySQL vs Postgres? We found tables crashed with too many simultaneous writers in MySQL, but your post says it "doesn't corrupt data", so I guess you haven't had such issues.
- Ruchira S. Datta
Bret: Do you apply the same approach to perform searches on your stored text data? (i.e. inside the data storing the BLOB)
- Roger
Bret, do you care to explain briefly how you approach the following/follower aspect without JOINs? I loved the article, keep reading it every once in a while...
- Jorge Escobar
+10 Obama. -3 for not dumbing it down, but hey perhaps with increased education funds, in the future he (or others rather) won't have to.
- InPerpetualMotion(Gina k)
I don't think all the money in the world is going to fix the education system if there are not supportive parents
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Maybe it's just me, but after re-reading it, I don't think he could have put it more plainly. It wasn't hard to follow and he used simple words.
- Admiral Anika
I thought so as well, Anika, but I wasn't gonna say anything cuz I wasn't positive of his wording :)
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
"Full CD-quality copies of every song on U2's upcoming album, No Line On The Horizon, have been leaked on to the web after Universal Music Australia accidentally put it up for sale on its online music store two weeks early. The album - U2's 12th - goes on sale on March 3 but it was available to download for a brief period this week on getmusic.com.au, run by Universal Music Australia. The U2 fan blog, U2log.com, published a screenshot showing it had bought the album for $19.80. Now, No Line On The Horizon is widely available on BitTorrent and other file sharing websites."
- RAPatton
from Bookmarklet
"But the album, U2's first in five years, will not be completely new to hardcore U2 fans as poor quality recordings of four tracks were published on the web in August last year after frontman Bono played them too loudly on his stereo at his villa in the south of France. A U2 fanatic from the Netherlands who was holidaying in the village of Eze, on the French riviera, heard the new...
more...
- RAPatton
I've been purposefully avoiding it... *twitch* Luckily, the single turned me off enough to wait.
- Michael W. May
Yeah, the single doesn't do much for me.
- RAPatton
Nice! Though it's worth noting that a couple of web servers (Apache, lighttpd) have been available for jailbroken iPhones for quite a while. One of the earliest, geekiest things I played with when I first got my iPhone. :)
- Steve just Steve
Just read this article. It's worth the effort to read through the whole article. Lots covered. What struck me was that as I was led to believe, coming from a lower middle class family, education is the great leveler. Scary stuff in the article, and I just don't think our partisan politicians are up to the task at hand, and I don't think they will deliver the goods.
- Henry Burger
Krugman says the stimulus passed by the Senate falls way short of what's needed. "This is really, really bad," he says. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...
XKCD's alt text: "... okay, but because you said that, we're breaking up." *My* alt text: "No. You're just a standard deviant."
- Kevin Fox
from Bookmarklet
Isn't it supposed to be an extra variance joke in the end?
- Лёша, не обобщай
I don't think those are error bars. That looks like a box plot to me. The whiskers (which look like error bars) actually represent the smallest and largest non-outlier values.
- Robert Felty
"Because of this variability, it is appropriate to describe the convention being used for the whiskers and outliers in the caption for the plot." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- ⓞnor
Can you guys fix the bookmarklet so that it sucks through the xkcd alt text pls
- Alex Gawley
Alex: The alt text is just the title of the strip; the funny stuff is in the title attribute.
- Gabe
Gabe: good point. Friendfeeders - can you guys fix the bookmarklet so that it sucks through the xkcd img title text pls?
- Alex Gawley
"Try DOTS, the default password" -- and if they've already set a password, then you can just reset it with a simple key sequence. Wow. They might as well not bother with the password at all...
- Joel Webber
Awesome. Also I know how to hack coke machines. It's just a simple button combination. Then you get to machines menu and can change the prices and see how much money it has.
- Alfredo
As Kevin's fake online attorney, I'd like to advise his many followers that Kevin Fox, the Fox Estate, FriendFeed, Rachel Fox, and any zombies or kittens owned or housed by the Foxes, are not liable for any horrific tragedies that may result if someone follows these highly theoretical instructions shared for amusement purposes only and happens to reprogram a sign so that vital information is not displayed, thus causing an accident.
- Stephen Mack
Now that I'm indemnified, I would add that, as the photo clearly demonstrates, I only provide these instructions so they may be used for the sake of saving humanity in the event of zombie attack.
- Kevin Fox
Alert citizenry saving humanity. Sounds like a TV movie.
- Ontario Emperor
I am just steeped in female baby-fever right now. I literally have 9 acquaintances due in the next 2 weeks. (2 family members, 4 friends, 2 co-workers, and my doctor) So to me, all women want babies.
- Matthew DeVries
I like how he gets stuck under the chair at the end.
- ronin
I'm 33 years old with no children yet. I'm also an only child. You haven't seen baby fever until you talk to my parents.
- Paul Reynolds
i like it when he plays with the box on the left
- Veronica
Very cute! Unlike our son, he actually plays with his toys instead of -- let's see -- blinds, plants, shoes, pots & pans, pretty much anything *other* than his toys ;)
- Jasmin Patry
As a father of an 8 month old, I can say unequivocally, that your child is highly focused.
- John LeMasney
"What has happened to the education system in the United States? When did it become acceptable for our kids to be less educated than those in other nations?"
- R. Ferguson
from Bookmarklet
It's always been this way here in the US, Ruth. Being the brainiac in the class always got someone punched out in high school. Sad and stupid, but I've always seen it as a form of control, more than anything else.
- Helen Sventitsky
Conformity and obedience are the main goals. Our public school system is still designed to churn out dutiful factory workers.
- Internet's Tad
It just occurred to me, replace the word with intelligent with complicated, and that explains why most of the time we're not assimilated with a complicated topic/terminology/or particular discourse, and therefore it can only give us stress. I'm jumping around a lot, forgive me.
- David Lynch
The public school system was designed to dumb down farmers so they would easily work in the factories. Nothing has changed since those early decisions. We hire "C" students of "C" students - who probably can't get jobs elsewhere. The "good" teachers find jobs elsewhere, while others are in the classroom simply to move up into administration. Here is an historical perspective of schools http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/undergr...
- LPH™ and his dog P™
I absolutely agree with tad and david (for germany as well). an intelligent and non-conformist kid is mostly more "complicated" for the teacher - another step into problematic school life.
- esther ♥ ♫
I remember getting in trouble several times along the way for having creative solutions to problems because they weren't in line with the "level playing field" that the school wanted to create. I'm sure it's even worse now with NCLB and the tendency to teach to tests rather than teaching to think. It's extremely unfortunate and I'm sure very frustrating for my friends in the teaching profession.
- Jared Smith
when people started believing in creationism.
- Duncan Riley
I had my interest in English Lit crushed when I was asked to dissect a feminist article for an exam. I tore the piece to bits because the writer didn't want equality, merely the tables to be turned and men to suffer (any such writing does nothing but discredits and harms the feminist movement). They marked it very poorly because it was "outside of the task we were asked to perform". Also, I was extremely good at science. I moved schools half way through secondary school and went from top set to middle.
- alphaxion
I protested cause I was getting bored in the middle class. I pointed out that I knew everything that class was trying to teach me, but they kept on saying "sorry, we're not going to move you". When it came to the mock GCSE exams I was a few points off of an A on the intermediate exam. Asked me to take the higher paper yet still wanted me in the middle class. Told them to get fucked, purely cause I stood a better chance of getting a good grade since I would have missed out on the details of the higher class.
- alphaxion
Oddly, when some immigrants come to America with very poor skill sets, they learn quickly and soon are tops in their class. A disproportionate number get scholarships to prestigious univerisities. To me this proves it is not the American eductional system alone. American kids and culture are anti-intellectual..
- Phil Boiarski
I have noticed that fewer kids (and many adults too) here in the UK bother to ask "why?" and "how?". They're just content to waste their time reading about which celeb is shagging whom and what colour underwear britney is wearing today. Total lack of interest in the world around them and how things operate. No wonder we're getting screwed by our respective governments if no-one will listen to the few voices that do get annoyed by it!
- alphaxion
really glad to see the dialogue on this issue. tagging on to Alphaxion's comment, it seriously concerns me that we are in such perilous times & the public's understanding is based in large part not on what they know about history and economics but what the popular, not necessarily accurate, pundits have to say.
- R. Ferguson
Not to be contrary, but why aren't you yelling at the parents of those kids? It's not just the school systems; it's the parents who won't crack down on the kids in some form or another. If they would do that and insist that school systems cap class sizes at something well below 25, maybe you WOULD see a difference in what gets churned out of the system. But the problem is at least as much created by the homes as by the schools.
- Jill O'Neill
Some of this ignorance is indeed intentional. Smart people overthrow oppressors and oligarchs. :) But in addition to, religions have no interest in adherents who question too much. And if you aren't willing to accept that bankers get free money, while automakers must give up unions for 1/20th of the same amount, well...you just might be a terrorist!
- Cole Jolley
I agree that there has been a bias against intelligence back to at least the '60s when I started school. Back then "smart" kids were "teacher's pets" and girls were told they were supposed to be "bad" at math and science. As many have already pointed out, the point of public schools is to turn out the desired work force. There was a study that showed three distinctly different "paths" based on class level. Today schools are far worse and parents would do well to STRONGLY consider home-schooling.
- Internet Strategist
All teach memorize, regurgitate, pass test. Thinking is discouraged as are questions. I wonder if the recent budget mess in Dallas ISD is their way of eliminating any "trouble-making" (read intelligent, open-minded, thinking, and especially non-conformist) teachers to increase control. If your kids are in public school ask them what they're taught about calling authorities if someone stays longer than average in a store or restaurant or they see anyone new in their neighborhood. You may be very surprised.
- Internet Strategist
I felt the same way when he subscribed to me! :)
- Michael Forian
Mauricio: I follow people who are smart and who participate.
- Robert Scoble
I still remember the day Robert made a comment to one of my FF messages :)
- Julio F ~ @SocialJulio
I also felt the same when I received this message and it's good to see there are more after me. The world may have come to an end in 2008, but this might actually be a sign of change for 2009; starting over with a fresh new world :)
- Zack Brandit
I like most things Google, but don´t care much for their UI work.
- Thomas Bøhm
I'm still waiting for Chrome on my Mac. I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a long time if the vaporware GoogleTalk for Mac is any indicator of Google's priorities.
- Mike English
I think they are mostly taking ideas from the mac and moving it into the windows platform under their own name. iPhoto - Picasa, Adium - Gtalk client, Safari/Webkit - Chrome, and so forth. They know mac users already have just as good apps.
- Thomas Bøhm
I thought Google was going to turn into another AOL when Chrome was released & that eventually they would integrate all their stuff into it. It was quite obvious they didn't do it out of concern for the users of the internet, or they would have made the browser usable to the group of people that need a light weight, fast, secure browser the most (those running older OS's that have been abandoned by Microsoft, Apple, etc.) Google showed they didn't care when Chrome wouldn't install on anything older than XP.
- April Russo (app103)
Thomas: +1 on the -1 for Google UI work. I can't put my finger on why, but much (or most) of their UIs drive me just a little batty.
- Ken Sheppardson
April: I'd hope that rather than try to back-port Chrome to an older, unsupported OS (I believe MS ended support for 95/NT at the end of 2002, didn't they?) they'd allocate their resources to Mac and Linux support and on opening it up for extensions. Looks like that's what they're doing, so a thumbs up from me on that. As far as turning into another AOL, I think their have higher aspirations than that: http://www.thinkgos.com/
- Ken Sheppardson
Extensions are what would make the difference between Chrome being a dedicated Google App interface(which is how I use it now) and a full-fledged browser. @Thomas Jabber clients have been around for a while and Webkit came from KDE, so I don't think that's a supportable assertion.
- Mr. Gunn
I've been pleasantly surprised with Chrome by the lack of features that I actually use. I've been impressed with the speed at which it launches and the minimal ui. Don't get me wrong I could really go for a picnik extensions for screen captures (bookmarklets don't work for receipt screen shots), and better greasemonkey support.
- Thomas Hunsaker
@mrgunn Yeah, I was a bit vague, hoped nobody would notice;) But my point is still buried in there somewhere. Of course os x is built upon technology that didn´t originate on the mac, but I still think UX and UI ideas from the mac are being copied over to windows by Google while they also bring much of the same technology being used on the mac (as well as on the original platforms for the technology). I don´t know, they say they love macs, and are mostly targeting windows.
- Thomas Bøhm
Apple does have good UI ideas, I just wish they wouldn't always screw it up by trying to control what people can do so tightly. You know what I mean? itunes would be a great media player if it'd just stop there, but it doesn't. It also wants to organize everything for you, and control where you get media files, and what you do with them.
- Mr. Gunn
@mrgunn I actually like simple UIs with the option to use Applescript and the terminal for power users. And I think iTunes was compromised because they needed all that functionality in one app when they targeted windows as well. It´s actually very un-mac-like to not have specialized small apps that do one thing very well. We already had iSync, but to install iSync as well as iTunes and other apps on windows would end up not looking simple to the average iphone-buying windows user. Shame but true.
- Thomas Bøhm
I am pretty sure iTunes does not control anything. I can buy/rip mp3s all day long, you can put them where you want and iTunes will leave them there. iTunes STORE, now there you have some silly controls/DRM but you can use iTunes all day long and never buy a thing from ITMS.
- Bill Pennington
Mr. Gunn, in iTunes, Edit --> Preferences --> Advanced tab --> Uncheck "Keep iTunes Music folder organized," uncheck "Copy files to iTunes Music folder when adding to library." Click OK to end the harsh tyranny of having a computer alphabetize things for you ;-)
- Karim
I like Chrome. If it had extensions and allowed me to seamlessly utilize less MS products I would likely use it much more frequently. For the time being I'll continue using ff 90% + of the time.
- Doug Vanisky
Chrome rocks, and these extensions will make it much more attractive to users and developers alike.
- Tim Ake
@Karim still no cure for ITMS. One theory is that itunes is an outlier in terms of power-grabbing behavior, but now with the iphone->appstore and bricking of unlocked phones it gets harder to assume incompetence instead of intent. Seems to me like it's a play for marketshare using the same old tricks Microsoft was guilty of using with IE. They're becoming the antithesis of open source. Not to turn this into yet another apple thread, though.
- Mr. Gunn
here at primal, we have been using google apps from the very begining, [i am a huge google fan] and i almost work everything in the cloud, my mail is gmail, my agenda is via google calendar, even my construction sites, and clients are on google maps, with photos tagged with gps position. now i am looking at action method [actionmethod.com] to have a project management tool, if google joins all this products at one fair price, it would be a blockbuster for small companies like us
- hector juarez
Convince Google that folders in email are a good thing and I would be sold. Their insistence that folders are not needed or wanted leaves me cold.
- Robert Miller
@robert miller but tags/labels, are like folders... in a more dinamic way. i use to have the same problem with folders, but then i realize that one information may correspond to several sources or viceversa, so tags are a better and more flexible way to archive
- hector juarez
I just wish they would fix the Chrome/Gmail interaction so that speed keys worked. :( :( :(
- Justin Long
"Gleaming new Mercedes cars roll one by one out of a huge container ship here and onto a pier. Ordinarily the cars would be loaded on trucks within hours, destined for dealerships around the country. But these are not ordinary times."
- Dave Winer
from Bookmarklet
Renault is selling 25% less cars than last year if you were looking for further proof...
- Benoit Cazenave
And yet, I still can't afford a new car. Wait. . . I think I see a connection here.
- Steve Lowe
there's a way to visualize the banking crisis too -- some bank financed the manufacture of all those cars.toxic assets.
- Dave Winer
This is great, in 6 months to a year the prices for all these cars will actually drop and they'll get pulled off the lot. Supply and demand, simple economics. Why should I be concerned about corporate profits? They're not concerned about me.
- Bjorn Stromberg
Bjorn: even if the prices do drop, there is no guarentee that a) demand will be strong and b) that profits can be made from those sales (selling to dispose of assets is different from selling to make a profit).
- Roberto Bonini
I don't want the big three to disappear, I just want them to go through the bankruptcy reorganization process. It works and there are many large companies that have go in and emerged stronger as a result. The choice is not simple to hand them cash or else the company goes belly up and everyone is out of work at the same time. Bankruptcy also doesn't preclude special bailout packages either.
- tim
Roberto: I'm not sure what your point is, clearly cars are overpriced and there are too many of them, otherwise they wouldn't be sitting in parking lots by the boatload. I am all for lower demand, it drives the prices of cars down and makes them more affordable. Here's a question, why haven't the prices of cars come down similar to the way prices of computers have come down?
- Bjorn Stromberg
Bjorn: cars require physical resources like steel and plastic that are impossible to reduce in price a lot. Computers are based on things that can be greatly reduced in price over time. Even the process of simply miniaturizing them would make them cheaper to build, store, and ship.
- Robert Scoble
My point is Bjorn, even if prices do come down ( hear that used cars prices are plumeting already) to manageable levels, there is no guarentee that consumers will buy. Consumers at the moment are hoarding and will continute to, since they reckon that now is the time to save for the worse times round the corner (which makes things worse, not better). There will be those who WILL cash in big and buy becase they have comfortable savings already.
- Roberto Bonini
On your second point, cars are not computers. the two markets ate different. Consider. Cars represent a greater investment over the life of the car in terms of both time and money than a computer does. You can, rather, compare cars to puppies. They both take time, they both are expensive, they both require a commitment over their lifetime, they both require love and care. And tey are both sold investments, not expendable ones. Get my point? And what Robert said.
- Roberto Bonini
From a consumer's perspective, low demand and "no guarantee that consumers will buy" is a great thing because it drives prices down. Those are things that benefit someone who wants to buy a car. Car prices are artificially high, this cost of steel and plastic and whatnot is absurd. We've been making cars for almost 100 years and we can't drive the price down any more? It reeks of fat and happy corporations sitting on their asses and not innovating. Car companies need to evolve like all the other industries.
- Bjorn Stromberg
We've been building houses forever and they still cost money to build. And your point is?
- Roberto Bonini
Everything costs money to build, I'm not arguing that. I fail to see why the American taxpayer should pay to bail out a bunch of corporations who are obviously not doing a good job innovating. Rewarding bad behavior only encourages more bad behavior.
- Bjorn Stromberg
Of course. bjorn. If The big Three built small, fuel efficent cars with some nice sleek designs, we wouldn't be in this position in the first place becase our reliance on foreign oil wouldnt be as high, and people would be buying american instead of japanse and korean. On the otherhand The Big Three do employ a boatload of people that we'd rather have stay in work. Then again, Chapter 11 does have credible reasons for its use as a force for change as opposed to a bailout.
- Roberto Bonini