Hosts: Leo Laporte and Sarah Lane Leo & Sarah show off handy Safari bookmarklets, Kindle Fire takes on iPad, Shadowgun, WSJ Live, Quora, Evri, & a reggae cap! Download or subscribe to this show at twit.tv/ipt. You can contribute to iPad Today by leaving us a voicemail at 757-504-iPad (757-504-4723) or sending an email to iPadToday@TWiT.tv. We invite you to read, add to, and amend our show notes. Thanks to Cachefly for the bandwidth for this show. Running time: 1:09:27
- Leo Laporte
Ok, I think there's enough views. Amazon. I think they've got the most potential for expansion, and definitely have a solid business model. They can use their solid assets to fund soft attacks into Google, Facebook, and Apple territories, while simultaneously boosting their own position.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Cristo, are you thinking about getting involved with them in the next year or two? I hear they made some nice bank in 2000-2003, by providing info on the pop.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Google has more money than G-d and they aren't afraid to waste it. They also have influence on just about everything. Why is your browser fast? Why is your phone awesome? Why are companies giving everything away for free? Why are they giving out cloud storage like it's nobody's business? Why is web technology in general cruising down the bleeding edge? I believe Google's constant yelling in the background for better/faster has a lot to do with all this.
- Rah-PM 2012
But it's all predicated on AdWords and the belief that online advertising is a cost effective exercise
- Johnny
from iPhone
I don't pretend to know whether AdWords is cost-effective or not, but when entire companies and industries do stuff based on what you say/do, I'd call that power. I also don't see ads going away any time soon.
- Rah-PM 2012
Rah, Amazon, is either coming on strong in almost all of those, or may be even better than Google in some. Browser, that's thanks to competition between Mozilla, 4 is faster IMO, and Google. Personally, not that awesome, Google Voice is way better, but Gizmo 5 and GrandCentral should get their credit for that. Why are companies giving everything away for free? That's because everything...
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- Jimminy, CoG of FF
It will be far easier for Amazon to advance on search, ads, and maybe even social networking, than any other company advancing into physical product sales.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Visa and Mastercard. If no one is able to buy or pay for anything on the internet, it returns to back in the day when we were all just hobbyists and academic researchers.
- Morton Fox
Heh, Morton. I think at this point, someone would introduce their own interchange, to keep things flowing, and then they'd be rolling deep.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Google. What is the heart of contemporary American culture if not advertising :D But more seriously, they didn't call it the Information Age for nothing.
- Victor Ganata
On second thought, I think Morton is right. Would there even be an Information Age if we couldn't buy things on the Internet?
- Victor Ganata
Victor, Amazon is doing the same thing as Google, they're just personalizing the rankings for the individuals and actually selling the information, which a lot of the time I'd say is more valuable than what Google would provide.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
No doubt what Amazon is doing is valuable, but in terms of overall impact--economic, technological, *and* cultural--I don't think they can at all compare to Google. But, given Morton's answer, I doubt either Google or Amazon would have any significant reach without Visa and Mastercard.
- Victor Ganata
i think google and facebook have the most mindshare. so they're powerful in that regard. but in terms of companies that add real value and make decisions that add more real value? i'm going to agree with jimminy's amazon call. they're doing ads. they're doing cloud computing -- both selling access to digital media, and powering startups. they're doing search. they appear to have beat...
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- tiffany
Victor, yeah for now Visa and Mastercard are standing as the gatekeepers, but they aren't doing anything, they have the power to fully disrupt the flow of money, but Amazon, Google, Facebook, Paypal(ebay), or Apple all have enough information and at least partially developed implementations that they could develop their own interchanges rather rapidly.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
see, i disagree about the technological and cultural parts. amazon is at the leading edge -- exceeding it in some ways. they've made the e-reader a mass product. they set the bar for ecommerce. google still hasn't caught up to that. amazon is doing now -- personalized search and recommendations -- something google is just beginning to do. amazon beat google to the cloud computing game. google gets more credit. amazon gets ignored because they're "the books site."
- tiffany
The mindshare part is key, though. How often do people interact with Google on a daily basis versus Amazon? I'm definitely not saying that Amazon has no impact, but if you have to quantify the unquantifiable, I'd still put money down on Google.
- Victor Ganata
Victor, probably just as often, if you count the fact that currently, using Friendfeed you're interacting with Amazon, as that's were the local media is stored. Amazon is all over the web, it's just not as apparent.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
++jimminy. i was just about to say that. amazon is ubiquitous in ways that your average person doesn't even realize. half of the hot web startups are using amazon's AWS.
- tiffany
Amazon found a way to get behind the web. Google found a way to get through it. And Facebook has found a way to build over top of it.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
and fwiw: if you are an amazon customer, amazon now has more relevant, actionable personal data on you than google does.
- tiffany
ooh and can't forget that amazon helped wipeout brick-and-mortar and they may even eat netflix' business for lunch if more people realize their on-demand service exists. (edited to add: i assume the kindle fire also has that video service built in)
- tiffany
@tiffany It does have the video service.
- Shevonne
But then again, you can't discount that YouTube, which is a Google product, is also improving their video service as well.
- Shevonne
OP said internet, not web. Here are some stats (various outdatedness)... Amazon has over 100 million customers (buying books and all kinds of things). Apple has 200 million iTunes customers (buying music and other media, many also buy hw/sw). Google is huge and everywhere, but largely anonymous until G+, which has maybe 50 million real-ish name accounts now. Facebook has something like 700 million real name dossiers of interest and behavior, including much more personal stuff than what you buy.
- Tidyfoil 2.0
It really depends on how you measure "power", doesn't it?
- Victor Ganata
When I said "interact", I meant the user making a deliberate choice based on brand.
- Victor Ganata
Google also made more than twice as much money than Amazon did in the last four quarters, so that ought to factor in.
- Victor Ganata
"There is a huge privacy flaw in Google's new Twitter/Facebook competitor, Google Buzz. When you first go into Google Buzz, it automatically sets you up with followers and people to follow. A Google spokesperson tells us these people are chosen based on whom the users emails and chats with most using Gmail. That's fine. The problem is that -- by default -- the people you follow and the people that follow you are made public to anyone who looks at your profile. In other words, before you change any settings in Google Buzz, someone could go into your profile and see the people you email and chat with most."
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
from Bookmarklet
err I meant to add a word 'off'
- Patrick
from twhirl
Even if you turn off buzz you still get emails. I tried I still got emails when I turned it off for about an hr.
- Patrick
from twhirl
Yeah, saw that article via Scoble. Caveat Emptor indeed. Even though Google is turning into Skynet, I can't help not shunning their products. Sorry for the double negative.
- Peter Avalos
@Jeunelle.Foster I find it interesting that you find Gmail not being efficient in identifying spam. Or do you mean to block them completely? Blocking off users who are sent to the spam folder will create lots of problem as one instance of false positive and you're bust. I have personally found Gmail to be quite good at filtering all my spam - but perhaps my usage data is vastly different than yours and that Gmail filter may be personalized? (that I don't know if it's true or not as I don't work there)
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
@Patrick try using Gmail filters and auto-archive subject:Buzz. If you are new to Gmail filters, see my blog post on how I use Gmail fllters to maintain inbox zero: http://blog.seeminglee.com/2009... :)
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
I used the lifehacker filter telling me to use label:buzz but that didn't really do anything, I have a lot of experience with gmail. I will try that and see if I get anything out of it.
- Patrick
from twhirl
Wow. That Fugitivus has a very valid grievance. There are a lot of things that Google must incorporate to get Buzz right. I'm sure there will be more pissed off people speaking out in the coming days.
- Peter Avalos
That user has a very valid point. Active != People we trust.
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
@Jeunelle.Foster Blocking on FF means only that they cannot comment on your post - it doesn't mean that you won't be able to see them
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
@Jeunelle.Foster It is my view that the only way to maintain privacy is to be as public as possible. See my blog post http://blog.seeminglee.com/2007... - in particular, section "How to unGoogle: Noise over Signal" - hope this helps!
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
I am not saying comply or die! I'm simply saying that in order to manage the increasingly public web, the best way to protect yourself is feed Google seemingly valid but bad data
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
@SML that's quite a different statement than saying to be more public
- Tidyfoil 2.0
But Google is not controlled by you. It's a business entity. As long as you Google doesn't do anything illegal, you can't really stop it from doing what it does. Since Google is unchangeble by you, the only way you can protect yourself is do what you need to do...
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
I see. So you canceled your Google account because you didn't like Buzz? Interesting. Don't you then lose all your mail? Seems drastic
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
Yeah canceling your account is a garbage move, especially since you can disable Buzz ... which I have
- LANjackal
I just pick and choose who to follow. Yeah of course, I am going to get loads of unknown followers. But I can always block them or never follow them back. It's up to the user to determine what they want to do. I choose to follow people who I know from Twitter, youtube, friendfeed. So on.
- Patrick
from email
"I delete that account and google can kiss my arse " - what do you mean by that?
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
"John and Marilyn. Bill and Monica. Charles and Camilla. Ashley and Whatshername. The extramarital affair has a long and if not quite distinguished, then at least high-profile, history. More often than not it is the men who occupy that central, adulterous role; difficult as infidelity statistics are to gauge, men repeatedly own up to committing the lion's share of affairs, outnumbering women by at least two-to-one. But why? That question, age-old as it may be, is not terribly difficult to answer – at least not according to Peadar de Burca – and he should know, having just interviewed almost 300 candidates on the subject. A playwright, director and comedian, de Burca has spent the best part of six months travelling England and Ireland, interviewing men who have cheated and the women that they have cheated on."
- Kol Tregaskes
from Bookmarklet
The December changes were worse than everything since, because there was no opt-out for making Friend List, Pages-Connections, and other new "PAI" non-public. Sounds like they may be partially addressing that today.
- Tidyfoil 2.0
Looks like Adobe's on the case - see the first comment on the post. Very odd that Adobe didn't know about this if what he's saying is true (always hard to tell with big companies like that - usually one hand doesn't know what the other is doing).
- Jesse Stay
It was pretty straightforward, what the code was doing and I don't know why Google would have added the Mac and Opera script.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
"Mmmmm. Mmmmm. Mmmmm. Sausage, peppers, and onions. This is one of those classic Italian American street-food, lunch cart dishes. I used to order them at a hole-in-the-wall lunch counter in Burbank, you know the type of place where the big loud guy behind the counter works fast and furious, takes your order (you better know what you want!) and barks it back to the guys on the line, and within minutes you have a huge bread roll in your hand holding more sausage, peppers, and onions than you think you can possibly eat. But eat you do, because they are so so good. And then you have a food coma for the rest of the afternoon, and you eat steamed broccoli for dinner because after that lunch, you just don't need much for dinner. Yum."
- Steven Perez
from Bookmarklet
I've never hated Apple as much as I do now. I'm a HUGE music fan and this is a HUGE loss in my ability to discover and check out new songs/artists
- LANjackal
I bet we will hear some announcements in observable future.
- Сло
*waits for the appholefan crowd to flame this thread*
- Vicarbott
elephantum: probably that you'll now have to use the iTunes client for streaming (if any). DO NOT WANT
- LANjackal
Jim, I enjoy using Apple products but I'm quite able to be critical of them as well. If they bought Lala simply to kill a competitor, that really sucks.
- Spidra Webster
"Hewlett-Packard has killed off its much ballyhooed Windows 7 tablet computer, says a source who’s been briefed on the matter."
- Nils Sandin
from Bookmarklet
I find that I'm talking more with fewer people; I sometimes miss the random interactions with people I don't know as well for the variety, but I'm still content with the closer relationships I've formed over the past year.
- Jandy
The experience for me would not have changed if it wasn't for changes in my personal life. For the last 2 years I'v been in and out of work so for small pockets of that time I've been able to use FF a LOT. What has changed now is that I don't get much time to use the service, simple as that. The main part that's been hit is participating in the threads (which I really like). Now, it's mostly looking at the top 100 best of posts, posting quick comments, liking a whole bunch of stuff and that's really it.
- Kol Tregaskes
And even this is hindered by the poor performance of the service in the last few months. :-(
- Kol Tregaskes
As for this nasty threads, I've mostly kept out of them (with the notable few exceptions) as most of the chat goes on overnight (UK time). I tend to log in and find all these threads have come and gone and so pass me by.
- Kol Tregaskes
definite cliques are forming up, whereas previously it was pretty open from a social standpoint. this cannot be good. when this trend appears on messageboards and IRC channels, which seem to have a similar social dynamic, it usually signals the beginning of a slow death.
- Joe The Sausage
I don't think the amount of people are engage with has changed since a few months into properly joining the service 2 years ago. In fact it regularly increases in small amounts. What I don't do nowadays is search out new users and welcome them - which I kinda get a kick out as I like helping people. I don't have time to maintain my groups any more but group usage seem to have decreased a lot.
- Kol Tregaskes
Have other services taken a bite out of my time on FriendFeed? Only fractionally and most die out and I always return to "full" FF usage. I tried Facebook's friends list [can't stand the service], I tried Twitter Lists [only partly track a bunch of my favourite people on there now] and then there are the likes of Cliqset, Pip.io and the 101 other "FriendFeed alternatives" but the come and go in a blink of an eye.
- Kol Tregaskes
Only Google Buzz is eating into my 'FriendFeed time' but not by much. It's a cool service but it needs FF-like features to be usable.
- Kol Tregaskes
When I see a thread get out of control, (or spiral downward) I click hide, and read it later on in "Best of Day" - So FF for me is fine. I get from it what I am looking for.
- Mike Nencetti
I think I share less on FriendFeed (though possible high compared to a lot but that's always been the case). I still run my football/rugby/F1/big event live chats, which are the threads where I *do* join in a lot but I'm generally not interested in arguing so avoid it generally. And I have little knowledge of politics so I couldn't argue about that subject if I wanted to.
- Kol Tregaskes
I think, as people have gotten to know each other better, that there are definitely groups/cliques now that I wasn't noticing two years ago.
- Rochelle
The site's not as vibrant as it was; that more-or-less goes without saying, and Akiva's right in that the lack of new blood in numbers counts for that. That said, I engage more than I used to, and because I'm very much into pretty things - astronomy, pictures, architecture - the site is still great for me; probably more so than a couple of years ago when it was overflowing with tech news and chat which bored me senseless for the most part (I get enough of that at work).
- Mark H
From my perspective these arguments have always been on FriendFeed - I remember arguments kicking off since I started on FF and remember having to defend one poor user and cool the thread down in his defence - though maybe they are more serious now? Some people seem to struggle with getting their point over without causing negatively. It's a hard thing to do, and I'm not saying that I can do it, but it is possible if you stop and think what you are about to write. Don't write when angry. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Mark, agree. As a would-be photography, ex-artist-ish and general lover of art (particularly sci-fi) I love using FF to find new photography and artwork. Hey I wish I could be on FF all day, you know I would if I could, but I can't. This guy needs pay job.
- Kol Tregaskes
Right, I'm off to bump a few fun posts from the past and get everyone in a better mood - you have been warned. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
The search is broken. Other than that, I think the problem with stagnation is more a problem of "I don't like leaving my comfort zone" rather than "no one is talking about anything I like any more on FriendFeed".
- Steven Perez
Compared to a year or even 2 years ago, for me at least, this site has become more personal. Just like the name of the site: FriendFeed. All this "noise," as some call it, is from people I call friends. I like my friends' "noise."
- Beau Liening
Mark, missed your post about tech news. Yes Google Buzz is going through that stage right now. It's mainly tech-talk and nothing else. But I'm trying my darnest to get non-tech threads up and running over there. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Beau, yeah it's more personal for me too. Well 2 years ago I knew no one here, no one knew me but I feel that I've gained a tone of new friends since FF. It's great and my favourite part of FriendFeed.
- Kol Tregaskes
I like it a lot better than twitter because of the commenting system (or threads) whichever you prefer. It's integration of posting to Twitter is pretty good and really helps a lot when you share stuff and you don't want to use many sharing sites. Like Ping.fm Posterous, etc.
- Patrick
from email
I'm less of a lurker now then two years ago, though I still lurk quite a bit. I haven't invested as much time as others but I still feel close to the community (though it might not be reciprocated).
- chrisofspades
Mark, let me put it this way: I'll accept that I have to do a certain amount of 'gardening' to weed out some of the noise, but if someone's feed consists of almost nothing *but* search result feeds... well, that's a bit ridiculous. Oh, and another alternative is to create a group.
- Michael R. Bernstein
I find it remarkably easy to Unfollow someone whose feed is primarily "stuff I don't care about."
- Walt Crawford
OK, I found another downside to relying on hiding items: I have a list that is currently only showing five items on the first page, because one of the people on the list has over forty of their items hidden. This person has nine twitter search feeds in their services.
- Michael R. Bernstein
Michael, yes, very annoying side-effect of FriendFeed's hiding implementation. The hiding logic is applied after the pagination logic. :(
- Meryn Stol
Yup, I have some lists that are almost completely empty because I hide all tweets that have no likes or comments. I also follow someone who brings his own twitter mentions feed in here and I always do a double-take when I see that the tweets are TO him, not BY him. Drives me nuts.
- Laura Norvig
After I susbscribe to people I don't mind hiding services. The only problem is when I'm looking at someone's feed deciding whether to subscribe, and what lists to put them on. That's when Hide fails me.
- Bruce Lewis
I subscribe to fewer but active people. This way, I can enjoy the post that are really interesting and popular( Likes and discussion). I can still miss interesting items with this strategy but overall it keeps my feed manageable.
- Ashish
I turned off Twitter on friendfeed. Most people I follow use Friendfeed as a way to push Twitter to Friendfeed and I want to unfollow them. I hate people who sign up for a social network and automatically assume it's okay to relay their twitter feed.
- Patrick
from twhirl
I don't have twitter linked with FF, but I was thinking of doing so largely so I can post to FF when I don't have wifi access (i.e. via SMS). Would that be annoying? I don't really use Twitter much, and just for random stuff, same as FF. I'm curious as to your opinion!
- Lo the Baker
I am not really objecting to someone putting *their* twitter feed into FF. That's easy enough to deal with (and some Twitter feeds are definitely worth paying attention to). It is when they have a bunch of Twitter (or other) *search* feeds that I find annoying. And I can't hide all such feeds at once, because FF thinks they are just another blog or other RSS feed, and I'd end up hiding all blogs.
- Michael R. Bernstein
It may be a bit harsh, but you could also reason that people who do not "get" FriendFeed are not worth subscribing to. I perhaps make an exception for some world-famous person, or a scientist who I greatly respect.. But just "regular Joe's" on FriendFeed? I judge them in part on the quality of their feed.
- Meryn Stol
Michael: My bad. I misunderstood. I agree: Putting Twitter search feeds into FF is not such a great thing, particularly if it makes an otherwise-interesting FF participant an overflow case.
- Walt Crawford
Content is more useful when there are many likes or comments. When importing high-volume search results, there are often too many posts for an interested community to keep up with. If the account owner is actually involved with discussions on each post though, then having many topics can be all right.
- Mike Chelen
STOP USING FLASH TO DELIVER ADS AND I'LL STOP BLOCKING THEM. Please, just stop using flash.
- LarchOye
Agreed with Larch. It's not that I hate ads per se, I just can't stand obnoxious advertising, which quite a few sites have gotten into: Flash page overlays, in-line keyword links with pop-up balloons, etc. Not to mention that displaying Flash ads isn't exactly inconsequential to browser performance. As for the "popular ad blocking tool" they're referring to, it's probably ABP. But...
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- LANjackal
I do agree that there r numerous ways 2 block ads, though any1 else consider textual ads, though less money? How about those YouTube ads? Yeah, not everyone cares 4 HTML5 or flash either. Anyway 2 make bucks w/o annoying readers online?
- polou/indigo_bow
Unobtrusive ads are those I can unconsciously block in my mind, so it's almost as good as browsing without ads. It's there, but easily ignored.
- Natsuki Seika